HomeMy WebLinkAbout2026-02-11 Planning & Transportation Commission Verbatim Minutes_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Planning & Transportation Commission 1
Verbatim Minutes: February 11, 2026 2
Council Chambers & Virtual 3
6:00 p.m. 4
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Call to Order / Roll Call 6
6:00 p.m. 7
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Chair Akin: Good evening, everyone. I call to order the February 11, 2026, meeting of the 9
Planning and Transportation Commission. 10
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Roll Call 12
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Chair Akin: Mr. Tavera, would you call the roll, please? 14
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Administrative Associate Samuel Tavera: Yes. Chair Akin? 16
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Chair Akin: Here. 18
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Samuel Tavera: Vice Chair Chang? 20
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Vice Chair Chang: Here. 22
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 2
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Commissioner Hechtman: Here. 4
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Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Ji? 6
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Commissioner Ji: Here. 8
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Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Peterson? 10
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Commissioner Peterson: Here. 12
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Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Templeton? 14
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Commissioner Templeton: Here. 16
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Samuel Tavera: For the record, we have quorum and noting that Commissioner James is absent. 18
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Chair Akin: Thank you. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Agenda Changes, Additions, and Deletions 2
The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 3
4
Chair Akin: Assistant Director Armer, do we have any agenda changes, additions, or deletions? 5
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Assistant Director Jennifer Armer: No changes. 7
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Chair Akin: Thank you. 9
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Oral Communications 11
The public may speak to any item not on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker.1,2 12
13
Chair Akin: Mr. Tavera, do we have any requests to comment on items that are not on the 14
agenda tonight? 15
16
Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, I have not received any public comment cards for general 17
public comment at the moment, and there are no raised hands on Zoom. 18
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Chair Akin: Thank you very much. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
City Official Reports 1
1. Director’s Report, Meeting Schedule, and Assignments 2
3
Chair Akin: Item 1 on tonight’s agenda is the city official reports. Assistant Director Armer? 4
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Jennifer Armer: Thank you, and good evening. We will get my usual brief PowerPoint up on the 6
screen in a moment jump right into the second page where we’ve got upcoming dates for 7
Planning and Transportation Commission meetings. Your next meeting, on the next slide, will 8
include a discussion of proposed zoning code amendment – this is in regards to what we refer 9
to as the shrink-wrap rule – bringing that back to you for a formal recommendation and a 10
proposed project at 800 and 808 San Antonio Road. That’s a planned-home zone proposed. 11
Next, on March 11, we will be inviting the Architectural Review Board to join us at your usual 12
Planning and Transportation Commission meeting time to have a joint meeting to discuss the 13
Cubberley Community Center Master Plan. And then a reminder that recruitments are open in 14
the Planning and Development Services Department both for the Planning and Transportation 15
Commission and Historic Resources Board. We’ve got multiple openings. Deadline for that is 16
February 18. Next slide? Council dates. These are actually all past. Just updates on the status of 17
projects that came to you previously. On January 22, we met with the Retail Committee to 18
discuss both the Retail Revitalization Ordinance that will be returning to you next month. And 19
we received approval of the El Camino Real Retail Node Map that – or they recommended 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
approval as PTC had recommended. You’ll see then on February 9 – skipping to the end – that 1
same item did go to Council and got approval on consent. 2
3
Also of note was the February 2 meeting. City Council reviewed a new planned-home zone as a 4
prescreening. This is a potential redevelopment of the parcels adjacent to Town & Country. 5
Point of interest from that meeting was that one of the – the parcel of 70 Encina that’s between 6
those parcels is expected to become part of that development as a single development 7
proposal when they do come in for their formal application. And then we also had a discussion 8
of the work plans. Thank you to Chair Akin for joining that and being available to answer 9
questions. They did recommend approval of the work plan that you reviewed last July so we 10
will get that posted and formally on the website. The one change that they made was a request 11
to add a reference to Senate Bill SB 79 as part of the work that you’re doing as ongoing work to 12
implement state laws as needed as there will be discussions upcoming on that topic as well and 13
direction from Council before we proceed with any code changes. That concludes my report. 14
And tonight we do not have anyone from the Transportation Department with us. They will be 15
joining us next time. Thank you. 16
17
Chair Akin: Thank you, Ms. Armer. Commissioners, any questions for Ms. Armer? Vice Chair 18
Chang? 19
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_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice Chair Chang: Quick question. For the February 25 PTC meeting, in our packet it says that 1
we might be looking at the Retail Revitalization Ordinance. And is that... 2
3
Jennifer Armer: Correct. 4
5
Vice Chair Chang: ...pushed now to a little bit later? 6
7
Jennifer Armer: That is correct. 8
9
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. 10
11
Jennifer Armer: We were trying to move it forward as quickly as possible but based on the 12
feedback from the Retail Committee, there were a few things that we wanted to make sure we 13
had thought through carefully to prepare strong language for your consideration in the hopes 14
that we can come talk with you and then move it on to Council promptly. We have shifted that 15
a month. We do expect that to come to the second meeting in March. 16
17
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. And then my other question is regarding the prescreening of the Town 18
& Country parking lot, were there any takeaways, while it’s fresh in your mind, so that – yes. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: There were a number – we took notes, and we’ll have a summary of it when 1
we... 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. 4
5
Jennifer Armer: ...do bring it to you. There were a number of items identified by staff as 6
potential issues that’ll need to be addressed with a formal application, some concerns in terms 7
of existing utilities and easements, some interest in looking into the transportation 8
improvements that might be needed with that kind of change to that street and the 9
intersection with El Camino Real. There was general support for the project but clearly there 10
will be extensive discussions about design and compatibility, all of that. 11
12
Vice Chair Chang: Thank you. 13
14
Chair Akin: Thank you. I have Commissioner Templeton, then Commissioner Ji. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you very much. I am going to guess that the transportation 17
team has been in a lot of other unplanned meetings in the last week, and that’s possibly why 18
they’re not here. But I’m going to just ask if when they do come back next time, if they can 19
speak to some of the conversations that are happening with Caltrain and with the City and the 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Public Works Department about Churchill. I know that was a subject of much public comment 1
at City Council this week and also at the school board for obvious reasons. I would really like to 2
find out at least an update on that and also if we can anticipate any conversation or study 3
session or opportunity for the public to weigh in on plans that are happening there through this 4
body. And if not, that’s okay, but it’d be nice to know what the plans are and sketch it out. 5
6
Jennifer Armer: Thank you for that request. I will pass that on to the Office of Transportation. 7
One note. Our expectation moving forward is that we will have them for one of the meetings 8
per month. Just so that there’s a common understanding and expectation. 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: Oh. We had previously hoped that they would be coming every time. 11
What is the reason for the change? 12
13
Jennifer Armer: Understood. We’ve looked into the kind of information they’re bringing and 14
sharing and with the shift to different staff and having them provide a more detailed 15
presentation as you’ve seen in recent meetings, kind of balance out the work, was to commit to 16
joining Planning and Transportation Commission once a month rather than at every meeting. 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you for letting us know that’s the plan. 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: Yes. 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: And feel free to pass along my strong objection to that when you... 3
4
Jennifer Armer: Okay. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: ...pass it along to them. 7
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Jennifer Armer: Thank you. 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. 11
12
Chair Akin: Quick question before moving on to Commissioner Ji. I presume we can contact Mr. 13
Arce directly as well? 14
15
Jennifer Armer: Correct. As with any communication with staff, I would welcome being 16
included, cc’d, on those emails just so I can support the Planning and Transportation 17
Commission in any inquiries. But yes, you can reach out directly. 18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: It’s a good question, Chair. Sorry to jump in. I just want to say the 1
reason is that as the recent conversations show, it’s really important to make sure that the 2
public have an opportunity to engage on a regular basis with the Transportation Department as 3
well as the Planning Department. The work we do here is not siloed. We’re not the Planning 4
Commission. We’re not the Transportation Commission. We’re the Planning and Transportation 5
Commission. I know I’m preaching to the choir but this is for the benefit of people who don’t 6
know the history of this conversation. But it’s really important that people be able to access 7
and stop by and talk to or give public comment that relates to the Transportation Department 8
as well. Thank you. 9
10
Chair Akin: Thank you both. I have Commissioner Ji, then Commissioners Peterson and 11
Hechtman. 12
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Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. I just want to quickly second the comments from 14
Commissioner Templeton about the fact that we don’t want to be having the planning side of 15
the house not talk to the transportation side of the house for our projects. Had a quick 16
comment about that. My main question is as part of the San Antonio Coordinated Area Plan, I 17
thought I saw that the plan might be coming to PTC this month. Am I mistaken there? 18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: The expectation is next month. It’ll be coming – let me think for a moment 1
what our tentative plan is. I do believe it’s the same meeting that retail ordinance will be 2
coming, that we’ll have a study session on San Antonio Road Area Plan at the second meeting in 3
March followed by a discussion of the retail ordinance that same evening. 4
5
Commissioner Ji: Okay. Thank you. I just didn’t see it on your deck so just wanted to make sure 6
that that’s still coming through. 7
8
Jennifer Armer: As you have seen, I try not to project too far out in the future because things 9
just keep moving. 10
11
Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Ms. Armer. 12
13
Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson? 14
15
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. Ms. Armer, I would like to also follow up with 16
Commissioner Templeton and Commissioner Ji’s recommendations that we do have somebody 17
from the transportation group here. The fatalities at the railroad tracks, the high school 18
students, is just unbelievable. And I’ve had a couple people ask me what is the Planning 19
Commission doing and I didn’t exactly want to respond that it’s not on our agenda. People 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
don’t understand that when you say it’s not up for a vote so any way for the transportation 1
group to put that on our agenda, I think, would be a welcome addition so that we could have 2
some input on it. 3
4
Jennifer Armer: If I may, Chair? Just a quick response. At the Council meeting, there was some 5
discussion of the work that is currently underway, the conversations that are occurring to 6
address the recent occurrences and history of occurrences on the train tracks and the crossing 7
there. And so at this point, that is where those conversations and negotiations are occurring 8
and I will be working directly with the staff who are working on that if there is something that 9
needs to come through Planning and Transportation Commission. It also could be that some 10
things occur in an urgency path that don’t come to PTC because we know that this is an 11
important and urgent topic to make sure that we get improvements in. And so I hear the 12
requests. We recognize the importance of this work. And I will be here to support once I’m told 13
that there’s an item that’ll be coming to you. But at this point, I know there are other 14
conversations going on to try and get something in there quickly. 15
16
Chair Akin: Does that address your question, Commissioner Peterson? 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: It does. 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: All right. Commissioner Hechtman? 1
2
Commissioner Hechtman: Just to try to wrap on this issue, I think we’ve received good feedback 3
from the Commission tonight on how important we view the participation of a representative 4
from Transportation. I understand there are budgetary issue, there’s labor deployment issues, 5
and so I think our ask here is that you take this feedback and talk it over with staff and maybe 6
there is a midpoint. Maybe it’s not showing up but maybe it’s something short in writing, bullet 7
points, on the evenings that there won’t be a Transportation participant. And I’m not 8
suggesting that that’s the solution. I’m just suggesting that’s an example of a solution. But I 9
think that’s maybe where this should go. I do understand the constraints that the overall 10
department has and we all have to figure out a way to work together with those constraints. 11
Thanks. 12
13
Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner. Anyone else? Commissioner Templeton. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. Just because you’re relatively new, we advocated for years to 16
get them to come regularly and they recently started doing that and now we’re learning they’re 17
trying not to with the new management. I just want to make sure that that message is loud and 18
clear with our new transportation chief. Thank you. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Anything further? There is nothing I can add to that. 1
2
Action Items 3
Public Comment is Permitted. Applicants/Appellant Teams: Fifteen (15) minutes, plus three (3) minutes rebuttal. 4
All others: Three (3) minutes per speaker. 5
6
2. PUBLIC HEARING / QUASI-JUDICIAL. 3606 El Camino Real [25PLN-00243]: 7
Recommendation on Applicant’s Request for Approval of a Vesting Tentative Map to 8
Merge Seven Parcels to Create One Resulting 113,907-Square-Foot Parcel. The 9
Subdivision Map Would Facilitate Construction of 321 New Residential Units in One 10
Building (24PLN-00162). CEQA Status: Exempt Pursuant to Assembly Bill 130 (Public 11
Resources Code section 21080.66). Zoning District: CN, CS, RM-30, and RM-40. 12
13
Chair Akin: I believe then we are ready for Item 2 on tonight’s agenda. This is a quasi-judicial 14
recommendation on an applicant’s request for approval of a vesting tentative map for 3606 El 15
Camino. Because this is quasi-judicial, I’ll ask are there any disclosures, Commissioners? I see 16
none. Vice Chair Chang? 17
18
Vice Chair Chang: I’ll just say that I visited the site and because it’s not in our packet, made the 19
observation that both on Kendall and on Matadero, it is very difficult for 2 cars to pass each 20
other. Yes. You just have to do it very carefully. Because I had to do it on both streets. That’s it. 21
22
Commissioner Templeton: It’s not disclosure. 23
24
Vice Chair Chang: Well, we’re supposed to – it’s not really a disclosure but we’re supposed to 25
include anything that’s new information that’s not in the packet. Is that correct? Okay. 26
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: All right. Any others? If not, may we please have the staff presentation? 2
3
Senior Historic Planner Steven Switzer: Good evening. Let’s take a trip to 3606 El Camino Real. 4
As mentioned, this is a vesting tentative map to merge 7 parcels to create 1 resulting parcel 5
that would be approximately 2.61 acres. And that would equate to roughly 113,907 square feet. 6
The vesting tentative map would also facilitate the construction of a 321-unit residential 7
building that is under a separate entitlement and not up for discussion at tonight’s meeting. 8
And here are those 7 parcels detailed on the screen. Moving on to some municipal code 9
consistency. As detailed in the staff report, the resulting merged parcel is code compliant. The 10
project site is within the El Camino Real focus area, an area that was identified for high-density 11
housing. No public or private streets are proposed on the merged parcel and there are no zone 12
changes. This simply would just be a merging of those 7 parcels to accommodate 1 building on 13
1 parcel rather than going across parcel lines. As for some key considerations for tonight’s 14
discussion, that is detailed in that Attachment B in the record of land use action, those 7 15
findings for the subdivision map approval. It is consistent with the land use and zoning. The site 16
is suitable for this type of residential development based on that land use and zoning. The site 17
and the associated project would be suitable for the proposed density of those said parcels as 18
well as it provides some new public and private easements with the sidewalk across the entire 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
frontage for an effective 12-foot sidewalk along El Camino Real as well as some new utility 1
easements on the project site. 2
3
The project was determined to be exempt in accordance with AB 130, a recent legislative 4
change, Public Resource Code Section 21080.66. That does invoke some strict timelines for City 5
approval and processing. Generally, that would be 30 days after a tribal consultation period is 6
complete, which for this project, that was complete on January 26. The applicant has also 7
entered in agreement with the City to extend that deadline and that date is provided in the 8
packet. As for the recommended motion, staff is recommending that the Planning and 9
Transportation Commission recommend approval of the proposed vesting tentative map to City 10
Council based on those findings in Attachment B and subject to the conditions of approval. And 11
due to that strict timeline from that AB 130 recent legislative change, some of those conditions 12
of approval, notably the utility conditions of approval, are forthcoming and not detailed in the 13
packet. It is anticipated that those conditions will be available for the City Council action and 14
not to be expected to make any substantive changes to that associated project. And with that, I 15
can entertain any questions and the applicant is available for questions as well. 16
17
Chair Akin: All right. Commissioners, let’s begin with clarifying questions for Mr. Switzer. 18
Commissioner Hechtman? 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. The staff report mentioned that there were also some 1
potential conditions of approval being negotiated with the tribe? And I’m wondering if those 2
are in the same state of affairs as the utility conditions. There’s no update on that since the 3
staff report was released. 4
5
Steven Switzer: Correct. With the advance lead time that we have for getting these reports to 6
the Commission, some of those conditions weren’t able to make it before the Commission, as 7
detailed in the record, but those have been agreed upon with the tribes and that’s for ground-8
disturbing activities and for monitors to be present. The exact language can be provided but 9
unfortunately it wasn’t able to be in the packet this evening. 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. That being so, I understand the timeline of getting this to us. In 12
the future, it’s ideal for us to see as many of the conditions of approval as we can even if we 13
only see them just before the meeting. Then we can have some recommendation to Council on 14
those. I don’t remember this ever happening before so it may never happen again. But if it does 15
happen again and you can get it to us, even earlier in the day of the meeting so that we can 16
have a quick chance to review them, that’d be appreciated. And the only other clarifying 17
question I had is I didn’t see in the staff report that any of these 7 parcels were housing 18
inventory sites so I’m wondering if they are? And if so, what was the anticipated density for 19
whichever parcels were so designated? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Steven Switzer: Yes. These – I believe if we go over to that information on the... 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: Did I miss it? 4
5
Steven Switzer: Yes. 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 8
9
Vice Chair Chang: Packet Page 9. 10
11
Steven Switzer: Packet Page 9. 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: Oh. Thank you. All right. Question answered. Thank you very much. 14
15
Steven Switzer: Total for the site, just for the record, would be 37 anticipated units. 16
17
Commissioner Hechtman: Oh. There you go. Yes. All right. No further questions, Chair. Thanks. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner Hechtman. I have Vice Chair Chang and then 1
Commissioner Templeton. 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: I was wondering if you could go through – is this a clarifying question or not? 4
But because I think it could be useful for members of the public, I wanted to understand where 5
the easements – the new proposed easements are because we were – as a Commissioner, I was 6
having a hard time looking at the map and seeing where they were. In particular, I think there’s 7
an IEE easement line drawn and I don’t – is that going to stay? I’m just trying to understand 8
because we’re supposed to review easements where are the easements? Yes. That’s my 9
question. 10
11
Steven Switzer: Great question. Bear with me while I pull up that... 12
13
Vice Chair Chang: Sure. No problem. 14
15
Steven Switzer: ...vesting tentative map and we can walk through those on the screen. Thanks 16
for your patience. All right. If the Commissioners have their printed plans or if they want to 17
direct their attention to the screen, we are looking at the vesting tentative map here. Zooming 18
in on... 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: C3.1? 1
2
Steven Switzer: Yes. Let me get to the – sorry – the civil site plan here. This would be on C4.1. 3
There would be an effective easement on El Camino for that 12-foot sidewalk. 4
5
Vice Chair Chang: It’s a planned easement. It’s not pictured in this plan, right? 6
7
Steven Switzer: Yes. It is detailed on the plans. 8
9
Vice Chair Chang: Oh, it is? I just... 10
11
Steven Switzer: Yes. Sorry. I was on the wrong page. Excuse me. 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: I think it’s on C3.1. 14
15
Steven Switzer: Yes. 16
17
Chair Akin: Yes. I found it easiest to spot the easements on 3.1 and 3.2. 18
19
Steven Switzer: Right. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Where you can see the cross sections that include the easements. 2
3
Steven Switzer: Thank you for that. There is – there. Trying to find the note here. C3.1. There is 4
a utility easement for a public utility easement. 5
6
Vice Chair Chang: And just to clarify, that says 6 feet, not 6 inches, right? I couldn’t... 7
8
Steven Switzer: Correct. 9
10
Vice Chair Chang: ...read it. Okay. Thanks. 11
12
Steven Switzer: Yes. It is one comma. That would be for those electrical transformers that are 13
detailed on the civil plans in that corner. And then for another location would be in this area 14
here for another access to utilities. That is an internal comment that is forthcoming. And then 15
I’m trying to find that public access easement. 16
17
Jennifer Armer: I think many of these easements have to do with access to the meters and the 18
transformers. To the water meter is the one along the top. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: I think we would be interested in understanding the sidewalk easements as well as 1
the utilities. 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. It’s the sidewalk one that I couldn’t find and I really wanted to make sure 4
I saw it. I think I see a line where it might be but I’m not sure. I couldn’t find a place where it 5
was labeled as such. 6
7
Jennifer Armer: Vice Chair Chang, what we may do is, now that we’ve had a little bit of a 8
discussion, that we might invite the applicant to describe this as well once we get to their 9
presentation. Since that’ll be before... 10
11
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. There will be an applicant. Okay. Thank you. 12
13
Jennifer Armer: Yes. The applicant is available to make a presentation and could, now that 14
they’ve heard this interest, potentially work an answer to that into their initial presentation 15
before any other public comment occurs. 16
17
Vice Chair Chang: Just to be explicit about one more easement question, I see a vertical line on 18
C3.1 and also 4.1. It says it’s an existing 30-foot IEE, so I think that’s a IEE easement that’s to be 19
quick claimed quitclaimed, which says – I looked up what quitclaimed meant and it means that 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
it’s just going to continue on and I didn’t understand that easement. Is that just going to be 1
removed? Okay. Thank you. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: Quitclaim kind of means go away. 4
5
Vice Chair Chang: Perfect. Thank you. 6
7
Chair Akin: Anything else, Vice Chair? Commissioner Templeton. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: I’m going to hold off till the applicant presents. Thank you. 10
11
Chair Akin: Thank you. Seeing no other requests to speak, do we have a presentation from the 12
applicant? 13
14
Project Executive Jeff Smith: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Jeff Smith, S-M-I-T-H, 15
with Sares Regis Group. We’re a local developer based out of San Mateo. We don’t have a 16
presentation tonight but we are here to answer any questions. And since we already had at 17
least one good question come up, I can help describe that. I don’t have the plans in front of me 18
but the basic concept of the sidewalk easement is along El Camino Real we are building and 19
improving a larger sidewalk and really improving that frontage. Our property line goes to a 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
certain point and we’re going to extend the easement about 3 feet toward our property to 1
capture that full 12-foot sidewalk. That’s El Camino. As described, the other easements really 2
are along Matadero and Kendall for the primary purpose of all the utilities that we’ve got 3
coming in there. On each side of the project we have actually sets of transformers. This project 4
is an all-electric project. I think there’s 5 transformers and we’re working with CPAU to not only 5
design those but also provide the correct easements that they’ll need in order to maintain 6
those transformers over the years. And then there’s also water easements and then there’s 7
certain other utility boxes and easements that weren’t captured. It’s pretty straightforward in 8
that matter and again, we’re here to answer other questions you might have on the tentative 9
map. 10
11
Chair Akin: Thank you, Mr. Smith. Do we have any questions for the applicant before public 12
comment? Commissioner Templeton. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. Thank you so much for coming here tonight and sharing these 15
plans with us and answering some questions. Staff, I will ask your support in helping me 16
maintain the scope that’s appropriate for tonight. You just let me know if that’s out of scope. 17
But my question is – well, I have a question for staff as well but I see we’ve got the counter 18
going down for you so I’m going to try and focus on your questions first. These little lines on the 19
plans, what do they represent? A bunch of little lines in a area called Lot 1, etc. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jeff Smith: I might invite... 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Maybe it’d be helpful if you bring it up. 4
5
Jeff Smith: Yes. If you can bring it up on the plan? I’ve also got our civil engineer, Kier + Wright, 6
here. We can... 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: I don’t think it’s that deep. Don’t worry about it. I just want to make 9
sure we get the picture up. 10
11
Jeff Smith: Sure. 12
13
Steven Switzer: And if I... 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. These little lines. 16
17
Steven Switzer: ...may, just for the record, I did find that note. I was a little tripped up earlier 18
because it was at the top of the plan set but now it’s inside of the lot. But for that easement we 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
have here, which would be a 2.5-foot easement, so that note would be indicating in that 1
section there. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Great. 4
5
Steven Switzer: [Inaudible 32:18] sheet. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: I’m asking about the little lines here at the bottom – currently in the 8
bottom of the screen. Different lengths. Are these – I think I know what they are but I just want 9
you to tell me what you think they are. Guys, it’s not a trick question. 10
11
Jennifer Armer: I believe it’s the parking spaces... 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: That’s what I thought. Okay. 14
15
Jennifer Armer: ...as part of the proposed building that’s not currently under consideration. But 16
you can definitely ask questions to understand the plan before you. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: I appreciate that. And also, there was a – staff, before you answer, 1
the staff question was the packet says there’s 321 and you said there was 37 units of housing? 2
What was the discrepancy there? 3
4
Steven Switzer: If we’re talking about housing inventory sites and what was identified... 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: The City thought there’d be 37 here? 7
8
Jennifer Armer: That was what was projected for the site that was identified as a housing 9
element site. 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: And what’s proposed is 321? 12
13
Steven Switzer: Correct. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. And so it looks to me about 80 percent of the lot is covered 16
with parking. Is that your plan or is that just a reflection of something that’s happening now 17
or...? 18
19
Jeff Smith: With the new project? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: Mm-hm. 2
3
Jeff Smith: The new project – again, and we’ll get into some details that we might... 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: It’s okay. Nobody’s getting married. That’s okay. 6
7
Jeff Smith: The project we’re proposing is a type 1 garage, 2 levels at grade. And then all of the 8
residential units... 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: Be above. 11
12
Jeff Smith: ...are above that, so that’s... 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: Right. 15
16
Jeff Smith: ...5 stories of wood. And in that garage, there’s also things like our amenity spaces, 17
our lobbies, [inaudible 33:56]. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: And that’s perfectly acceptable. I’m glad you were here to answer 1
that question because looking at this, it was very confusing because I didn’t understand how 2
that was going to work if that was a open-air lot for whatever reason. It’s 2 stories of parking 3
and then housing above it. 4
5
Jeff Smith: That’s correct. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: And how many stories of housing we don’t know. Or do you know? 8
9
Jeff Smith: Five stories of housing above that... 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: Five stories of housing. Okay. 12
13
Jeff Smith: ...with courtyards and open spaces. Yes. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. And so our plans don’t necessarily look like that because we’re 16
just talking about the lots. Okay. Got it. Thank you very much for clarifying those questions for 17
me. Thank you. 18
19
Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. Not to hammer more on the easement. I guess we’re all just 2
really bad at reading these lines on the document here. I’d like to – Steven, do you mind pulling 3
up Page C3.2? And then Section C. Okay. Just so that I’m reading this correctly, I see – is 4
proposed ESMT the proposed easement here? 5
6
Jeff Smith: Yes. 7
8
Jennifer Armer: Yes. 9
10
Jeff Smith: That’s correct. 11
12
Commissioner Ji: Then we also – I’m sure that’s referencing – the PSE, is that public service – 13
what is that? 14
15
Jennifer Armer: I believe that is the access easement for the part of the sidewalk? Is that... 16
17
Jeff Smith: Sidewalk. That’s correct. 18
19
Commissioner Ji: Okay. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: Assuming that’s along El Camino. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Okay. My understanding is that Section C refers to the Kendall side. Is that 4
correct? Okay. Yes. I’m just trying to understand here that – wait. Sorry. Did we say this was for 5
public utility, the PSE? Or is it for public service? Or is it just the sidewalk here? 6
7
Jeff Smith: I think it’s just a sidewalk. 8
9
Jennifer Armer: In that section, it did appear that there were multiple different easements that 10
were labeled for different [inaudible 36:10]. 11
12
Commissioner Ji: Yes. I just wanted to clarify. Yes. 13
14
Jennifer Armer: Correct. And so some... 15
16
Steven Switzer: And this Section C would be on Kendall. 17
18
Jennifer Armer: Okay. It looked like there was a sidewalk easement and public service easement 19
labeled there. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Ji: Okay. And then in reference to Section A, are we saying that the equivalent in 2
Section A is that it would be 10 feet on Matadero side for the sidewalk and 8 feet for the 3
Kendall side? Is that correct? 4
5
Steven Switzer: As indicated on the plans. 6
7
Jeff Smith: That’s the sidewalk dimension. Yes. 8
9
Commissioner Ji: Okay. Perfect. Just wanted to confirm that. Thank you. And then actually, I 10
had a question for staff but I can hold off until – I don’t know if the timer is still going? Am I – 11
okay. 12
13
Jennifer Armer: No. 14
15
Commissioner Ji: Yes. I was actually wondering if staff could just quickly go over what’s actually 16
in scope before the public comment begins so that we can make sure that the public 17
understands what we’re discussing today and what’s in and outside of scope? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Steven Switzer: Sure. I think that would be a great guiding topic for discussion. As for what is 1
within the scope for this evening, this would be a vesting tentative map to merge 7 parcels. The 2
development on that merged parcel is not up for discussion for this evening. It is simply just 3
merging those 7 lots into 1 parcel itself. And if we’re looking further, Attachment B, which 4
would be the record of land use, looking for those 7 findings for the vesting tentative map. If 5
there’s any concerns with those findings being made or provided, that would be where the 6
discussion should remain. 7
8
Jennifer Armer: And I will just add for clarification just for the benefit of the public, because 9
there is also an application here for redevelopment of this lot by this applicant for construction 10
of the new building that was briefly described in questions earlier, it may be that some of the 11
public comment will touch on the proposed building. And that’s fine. The building has gone to 12
the Architectural Review Board and will go with this vesting tentative map for Council to 13
consider at the same time, so there will be also be another opportunity for public comment. At 14
that point, it will be the map and the proposed building at the same time and so public 15
comment can be provided at Council as well. 16
17
Commissioner Ji: Thank you. I just wanted to make sure the public understood that before 18
going to public comment. And for those following along at home, the 7 items that Mr. Switzer 19
had mentioned are in Packet Page 18 and 19. Thank you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: As usual, Commissioner Ji has anticipated my questions and comments so let’s move 2
on to Commissioner Peterson, then Commissioner Templeton. 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. For the applicant, just for a quick question, you do 5
intend to develop on this lot after it’s merged? 6
7
Jeff Smith: That is correct. 8
9
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. And then another question I have is on the quality of 10
construction. Have you built in Palo Alto or this local region? 11
12
Jeff Smith: Most definitely. We’ve been around for 30 years, developed, I think, close to 3,000 13
units of apartments. Palo Alto as well. And we’re working on multiple projects in Palo Alto right 14
now. 15
16
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 17
18
Jeff Smith: And so we may see you again shortly on a couple other projects. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: The question I have is when you develop, what method do you use 1
usually of your development as far as the contracting? I assume you don’t self-perform all the 2
construction? 3
4
Jeff Smith: We are hired as a developer for this project and we hire general contractors, third 5
party, to build most of the bigger projects. We do have an in-house contracting arm as well. 6
7
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 8
9
Jeff Smith: For smaller projects we occasionally do that. 10
11
Commissioner Peterson: And so do you usually do that work with just the lowest-bid contractor 12
or is it often negotiated with your preferred subcontractors that you work with frequently? 13
14
Jeff Smith: Well, first off, it’s working with trusted contractors in the region. 15
16
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 17
18
Jeff Smith: Some of the biggest names and you can look them up online. Our history is very 19
strong with the contracting community and once we select the general contractor, then they 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
start to then go out to the subcontract base. It’s a pretty tried-and-true project design, bid, 1
build program. 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: And that’s exactly where I’m getting at. When you pick your general 4
contractor, we all know there’s multiple ways you can do it. Pick a name out of a hat, take the 5
lowest name – or number on there. What I’m looking – asking is is because the quality of the 6
construction being vastly different. There’s obviously tons of games that happen with low-bid 7
contracting versus when you’re doing higher-quality negotiated contracting. The highest quality 8
is when you have the apprenticed building trades. And that’s what I’m asking. Do you usually 9
work with the apprenticed building trades or you usually – you don’t reach down to that level, 10
it’s just whoever they bring in to work? 11
12
Jeff Smith: Oh, no. Certain percentage of – our projects have a percentage of the trades... 13
14
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 15
16
Jeff Smith: ...in every project. Every project’s unique. I will say we’re working for the 17
Giovannotto family who has 60, 70-year history in Palo Alto. This is a project that’s not a 18
merchant build. We’re not going to build it and sell it. We’re not going to – we’re here for the 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
long game. The Giovannottos are here to own this project for generations and so quality is of 1
the upmost importance. 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. 4
5
Jeff Smith: Mm-hm. 6
7
Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner Templeton. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. This is a question for staff. Just following up on 10
Commissioner Ji’s questions. Are there any implications or considerations that we should have 11
as a Commission based on if the proposed merger of the parcels is approved? For example, 12
once that’s approved, then it’s on some kind of fast track or not on a fast track? Can you help us 13
understand if there’s any implications that are on track or not on track if this approval goes 14
through? 15
16
Jennifer Armer: I will start with an answer but I’ll invite my colleague here to supplement if 17
appropriate. As previously stated, this application for a tentative map to merge these parcels is 18
actually part of a package of multiple applications, one of which is for the redevelopment of the 19
site. What is before you tonight is just the request to merge the properties. But as you will see 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
on the City’s website, there are designs for a new building to go onto the site. This is one of the 1
steps required. Because of more recent streamlined housing process, the building itself just 2
goes to the Architectural Review Board. Because it is a builder’s remedy project, we are then 3
taking it to Council. Plus, this lot merger would go to Council for approval as well. It is a critical 4
component of being able to build the building that is proposed because construction over 5
property lines is not something that is allowed by the building department. However, we are 6
asking that the Planning and Transportation Commission tonight make a recommendation on 7
the proposed tentative map, up or down, based on the required findings because there is a 8
limit on the number of hearings that can be held on this type of project. And so... 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: Right. 11
12
Jennifer Armer: ...we need a recommendation so that we can move forward to Council so a 13
decision [inaudible 44:23]. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: But I’m going to simplify that and you can react if I have it... 16
17
Jennifer Armer: Okay. 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: ...oversimplified. But this is our only bite at this apple. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: Correct. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: I think it’s really important for us to know and I don’t think it was 4
clearly – I understood everything you said but I don’t think that simple way to state it was 5
coming through and it’s really... 6
7
Jennifer Armer: Okay. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: ...important for us to make sure that we’re clear. I can understand 10
why someone might want to stay with the details but it’s important for us to know. Because 11
while we might be interested in talking about this and coming back, if we don’t get to come 12
back, then that really complicates this discussion tonight. I’m really glad that the developer is 13
here and can answer questions for us because we’re going to have a lot more than you think. 14
Or... 15
16
Jennifer Armer: That is correct, that this is your one bite of the apple. And with this project, 17
your purview is the lot merger. 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: Understand. And I guess we’ll have a lot of questions... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: And you may ask questions [inaudible 45:27]. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: ...about the lot merger if that’s the way you’re going to play it. It’s 4
very frustrating for us because – I understand what you’re saying from the legal perspective, 5
that this is where we get to do it, but also, you’re handing us something that is half-baked and 6
we don’t get to have any kind of understanding of the implications of our decision. And so it’s 7
on us to also try and think it through and guess. And fortunately, we have the applicant here 8
and we have staff here but it is an uncomfortable situation and it’s worth pointing out that this 9
is an uncomfortable situation. Because maybe one day somebody will want to try and fix it. And 10
it’s okay that this is what we have to do now but we have to also be really transparent with the 11
people that are here that there’s a limit to what we’re able to do. And also, what’s happening 12
next. And I’m really glad up that they’ll have an opportunity to speak at Council because they 13
won’t have an opportunity here. And we also have to make sure that our comments, within 14
scope, are made tonight. 15
16
Jennifer Armer: If it would be helpful, one final note. Because the only part of this project that 17
is coming to you is this lot merger, we do expect to have public comment – and you have seen 18
written public comment, I believe – with concerns about the development project itself. And so 19
those public comment will be shared tonight and will be shared with Council when they look at 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the development itself. It is very difficult – and we understand – to separate a lot merger when 1
that’s the only component of a future development that is coming to you. And I would invite 2
the Planning and Transportation Commission, if there are things that you have seen that are of 3
concern that you want to make sure the Council is looking at when they look at the 4
development itself, we would welcome those comments tonight. But I also will come back and 5
remind the Planning and Transportation Commission that your purview tonight is just the lot 6
merger, it’s not the development on the site, and that we have a second item on our agenda as 7
well and so we want to be efficient. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: Oh, you’re so optimistic. I love it. 10
11
Jennifer Armer: We want to be efficient and pointed with our time given the items we want to 12
get through tonight. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: Definitely. 15
16
Jennifer Armer: Thank you. 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you for going through that. And one last question since you’re 19
on. And I got you all riled up so I apologize for that. I would ask you to just state for the people 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
here who are trying to understand this process is different, who is the body that decided that 1
we get one bite at this apple? Is that the Council or is that the state? 2
3
Jennifer Armer: It’s a combination of things but I will invite Albert Yang, Attorney, to speak up if 4
he’d like to add anything. 5
6
Assistant City Attorney Albert Yang: [Inaudible 48:30]. 7
8
Jennifer Armer: Yes. Go ahead. I’ll pass it off to him. 9
10
Albert Yang: Yes. It is largely the state. Several years ago the state passed one of their many 11
sets of housing bills and one of those, SB 330, limited the City to 5 total hearings, including all 12
appeals and continued hearings, for certain housing projects. And so the City staff have looked 13
at the various bodies that need to see this item and have mapped out how many hearings we 14
can cut out where. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: Makes total sense. Yes. 17
18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Albert Yang: Yes. On top of that, this project is utilizing a very recent law, AB 130, which 1
requires the City to make its decision in a very short time frame. And so that further limits how 2
many hearings we can schedule and fit into that time frame. 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you so much for answering that question thoroughly. I think 5
it’s important because I’m hoping that this questioning will be included in the minutes or in the 6
presentation that staff write up to Council. The reason is – we’re sorry we won’t have a chance 7
to work with you to make this project better for Palo Alto. You’re going to do the best you can. 8
You’re going to get the hearings that you deserve. All those things. But one of the things that 9
we have been able to do that is the blessing side – it’s a blessing and a curse, the Palo Alto 10
process, but the blessing side is we usually are able to make the project more palatable to the 11
community and so that increases the likelihood that by the time it gets to Council, that it’s 12
going to pass. I regret that we’re not going to have the opportunity to do that here but I really 13
hope that people in the community will reach out and give you the feedback so that you can 14
have a really good package by the time it is ready to move forward. With that said, that’s the 15
end of my technical questions. Thank you. 16
17
Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: I remembered the last question I had for the applicant. Is there retail 1
space built into this or is this pure residential, I think? 2
3
Jeff Smith: It’s a pure residential project. 4
5
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. Is it still open on the table that you might put retail in or is it 6
that decision’s made? 7
8
Jeff Smith: I’ll tell you we do mixed-use projects all over the place. 9
10
Commissioner Peterson: Right. 11
12
Jeff Smith: But we’re building Sunnyvale’s downtown right now. Retail works in great locations 13
and it does not work in other locations. And we definitely looked at it early on on this project 14
and we did not get good responses from all the retailers, the retailer brokers, and the like. No, 15
this is not a great retail location. 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: I will hand it to you that that might be the most retail-vacant space on 18
all of El Camino I’ve ever seen. It stands out. It’s so bad. Okay. Thank you. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 1
2
Commissioner Ji: Sorry. Last one for staff. Following up on Commissioner Peterson’s question, I 3
was wondering, because on Slide 2 you had mentioned that there will be no zoning changes. 4
However, it looks like there will be no commercial on this property anymore so I was curious 5
about that. 6
7
Steven Switzer: Right. There is no zoning changes. The underlying zoning districts would remain. 8
In each of those districts, residential uses are a permitted use as well as the expanded El 9
Camino Real focus area that allows for higher-density housing, which this property – all 7 of the 10
parcels were identified in and approved by Council. 11
12
Commissioner Ji: All right. Albert, do you want to chime in there? 13
14
Albert Yang: Yes. I would just add that because this project is proceeding under the builder’s 15
remedy in state housing laws, they can be inconsistent with our zoning. And that’s not a basis 16
for the City to deny the project. No change in the zoning is necessary because as a builder’s 17
remedy project, it doesn’t need to comply with our zoning. 18
19
Commissioner Ji: Thank you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Any last questions of the applicant before we move to public comment? No? All 2
right. You will have an opportunity to speak after public comment as well. Mr. Tavera, do we 3
have any requests to comment? 4
5
Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, at the moment, we do have 6 requests to speak and I do 6
want to invite if there’s any members of the public on Zoom that would like to speak, to raise 7
their hands. But with that being said, I want to welcome our first speaker, Penny B., to the mic. 8
9
Chair Akin: Excuse me just a second. 10
11
Samuel Tavera: Oh. 12
13
Chair Akin: Any groups? 14
15
Samuel Tavera: No groups. 16
17
Chair Akin: Okay. We’re keeping the 3-minute limit then. 18
19
Samuel Tavera: Okay. And then after Penny B. will be Kerri J. Penny, you may now speak. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Penny Brennan: My name is Penny Brennan. I live in the Ventura neighborhood of Palo Alto. I 2
urge you to vote no on the merging of 7 parcels of land to create the footprint for this project. 3
The proposed building is too high, too dense, and too poorly planned with respect to entries 4
and exits to be safe for residents in the surrounding Barron Park and Ventura neighborhoods. I 5
have 2 key concerns about the safety of this building. First, the building designers have cited its 6
main entry/exit on Matadero Avenue near the intersection of El Camino and Matadero 7
Avenues. Along its span from El Camino to Bol Park, Matadero is a narrow, 2-lane road with no 8
sidewalks and little parking. The placement of the main exit/entry of a 7-story, 321-unit building 9
on Matadero Avenue represents a significant safety hazard. Every one of the building’s more 10
than 300 vehicles and those of their visitors as well as delivery trucks, service providers, Ubers, 11
Lyfts, building maintenance, and other vehicles will have to enter and exit the building through 12
this Matadero main entry/exit. This placement is going to lead to significant dangerous traffic 13
problems such as heavy congestion and backups along Matadero and El Camino and increased 14
volume of often speeding cars seeking U-turn opportunities in the narrow Barron Park streets 15
behind the 3606 building. My biggest concern is for the safety of bicyclists, most of them 16
children, who must cross the El Camino-Matadero intersection to travel down narrow 17
Matadero, then narrow, often winding, Barron Park streets to reach their destinations of 18
Barron Park Elementary, Fletcher Middle, and Gunn High Schools. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
This intersection is already harrowing and biking through Barron Park streets already dangerous 1
for the children who commute to these schools. The increased volume of vehicles and traffic 2
problems caused by 3606 El Camino are going to vastly increase this danger. Second, I’m 3
concerned about earthquake and fire safety risks posed by the proposed project. To what 4
extent might neighboring and nearby residents in 1 to 2-story homes be put at risk of physical 5
harm by catastrophic earthquake and fire events in the proposed 7-story, 321-unit building? 6
How might firefighting and other emergency services be hampered by the height, density, poor 7
egress, and narrow streets surrounding the 3606 building? How much does this building 8
endanger the lives and safety of its Ventura and Barron Park neighbors by placing excessive 9
burden on existing emergency services resources allotted to this region of Palo Alto? Thank you 10
very much for considering my concerns. 11
12
Chair Akin: Thank you, Ms. Brennan. 13
14
Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Kerri J., followed by Star T. 15
16
Kerri Jung: Hello. My name is Kerri Jung. I’m a resident – oh, I’m sorry. Is that better? 17
18
Female: Yes. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Kerri Jung: Okay. Hi. My name is Kerri Jung. I’m a resident of Barron Park and I’m also a local 1
teacher. And I first want to start with I’m very excited to see the high-density housing coming 2
into Palo Alto. I think it’s really needed. I support that along El Camino. And even the proposed 3
building right now, the lot parcels that are proposed to be merged along El Camino seem like a 4
great idea. What I’m really concerned about is the proposal for parcels to be merged on Kendall 5
Avenue. If you haven’t been to Kendall, I really ask you to go down before you make this vote. 6
Kendall is a tiny street. You have to pull over to let a car go by. And the proposed exit and 7
entrance for this building is on the curve of Kendall. Kendall is a Safe Routes to School street so 8
kids use this street regularly to ride their bikes and pedestrians walk on the street a lot. They’re 9
going to be coming around a curve, cars are going to be coming out, and because this building is 10
so large and it has minimal setbacks, cars are going to be pulling out right onto the sidewalk 11
where kids are riding or walking. It’s going to have very low visibility. I’m really nervous about 12
the safety of this project. It seems like it’s an accident waiting to happen. 13
14
And I really don’t know how it was dubbed for site suitable for proposed density. It does not – 15
Kendall Avenue – El Camino definitely. But Kendall Avenue is not suitable for high-density 16
housing at all. And it also really goes against – I know AB 3177 is supposed to be exactly for 17
these situations where – we have the builder’s remedy but there’s major safety concerns. Like I 18
said, I completely support that high-density, large housing on El Camino. I think it’s really great 19
and it’s really needed but when we have entrances and exits going onto these tiny little streets 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
where we have pedestrians regularly using them to bypass the larger streets around, we’re 1
really setting up a disaster for our local students. Please consider looking at those mergers of 2
those back parcels. Again, totally support that front El Camino. Get this high-density housing 3
into Palo Alto. We need it. But not when it’s affecting our Safe Routes to School when it’s 4
jeopardizing our children. Please really look into it. And visit the site. Please visit it. Because the 5
plans do not capture how small – how narrow Kendall Avenue is. Thank you so much for your 6
time. 7
8
Chair Akin: Thank you for your comment. 9
10
Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Star T., followed by Oscar M. 11
12
Star T.: Good evening. Thank you, as always, for serving our city, especially in these confusing 13
and frustrating housing times. I too am very supportive of high-density housing, and it's actually 14
exciting for Barron Park to get some development and to fix some of the blight that's been 15
there. However, I am shocked that there has been no mention from our staff about safety on 16
this project to my knowledge. Maybe it has been. I have not heard anything as far as I've 17
followed. So let me list 3 things that I think should happen, and I know that you are only 18
approving the consolidation of the lots, but we need a time – we need an opportunity to talk, 19
and this is one. First of all, there should be a traffic study for this area. And although it should 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
be on 3606, it should also consider 3400 and 3781. All of these developments are working 1
together with traffic and really critical. There are some major changes that need to happen, a 2
U-turn at Kendall for example. Secondly, there should be a main entrance created on El Camino. 3
And I understand that we have a – an objective standard, which has stated that the City wants 4
entrances on side streets. There should have been a clause in that that said, unless it is deemed 5
necessary due to safety or some other reason to put it on the front – the El Camino Real. San 6
Mateo has this sort of clause in theirs. To lock ourselves into one objective standard without 7
considering the options is, to me, ridiculous. Every situation is going to be a little bit different, 8
so we should have some flexibility with that. 9
10
Thirdly, I hadn't thought about this before, but I really think maybe this is a case for AB 3177 11
land dedication. Barron Park is a very landlocked neighborhood. AB 3177 allows you, the City 12
Council, to require a dedicated service lane. And if the developer's insistent on this particular 13
development at this lot, then I think it needs to – that needs to be considered. Barron Park is a 14
street as it's been mentioned. No bike – I mean, no sidewalks, no bike lanes. It's shared by 15
people in – taking their preschoolers. I saw a woman walking with her walker on the street. The 16
river is on one side, so there's no shoulder. I ride it every day, and it is just ridiculous that there 17
would be no consideration for the traffics and safety of people on the street. Thank you very 18
much. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Thank you, Star. 1
2
Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Oscar M., followed by Chris J. 3
4
Oscar M.: All right. Good evening, esteemed members of the PTC. Thank you for giving me the 5
time to speak tonight. My name is Oscar Masaderos. I'm a field representative with the 6
Carpenters Union out of Local 405, which represents Santa Clara County. We represent 7
approximately 57 member – 57,000 members in our region but more specifically the 5700 8
members from Local 405, so I am here tonight because after multiple attempts of reaching out 9
to the applicant, we have gotten a response. Tonight after – as you consider this item for the 10
merger of the parcels for much-needed housing, I urge you to also consider how this project 11
will be built and who will be building it. We are, in no shape or form, against housing, we just 12
want it to be built without taking advantage of the workforce. Housing is not just about units 13
and numbers. It's about people, both the families who will be one day living in these homes but 14
also the men and women who will be constructing them. That is why choosing a responsible 15
general contractor is very critical. A responsible contractor is one who values the workforce and 16
invests in them, one who ensures workforce – or workers are paid area standard wages and 17
they could afford to live in the communities they work in, one who provides health and welfare 18
benefits so workers can care for themselves and their families, and one who offers retirement 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
security so they can – so that after decades of physical, demanding work, these tradespeople 1
can retire with dignity. 2
3
Equally important is the strong apprenticeship program, one that creates pathways for young 4
men and women to enter the trades, gain skills, earn while they learn, and become the next 5
generation of highly trained craftsmen and women. These programs don't just build careers, 6
they build safe job sites, higher-quality projects, and strong local economies. So as you move 7
forward with this housing project, I respectfully ask that you prioritize responsible contractors 8
who will uphold these standards. Doing this ensures this project delivers not only housing but 9
long-term value for workers, families, and the community as a whole. And thank you for your 10
time. 11
12
Chair Akin: Thank you for your comment. 13
14
Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Chris J., followed by Scott A. on Zoom. 15
16
Chris J.: Hi. Thank you for letting us speak tonight. I just want to reiterate some of the same 17
concerns that have already been stated about the safety of this project, specifically to cyclists 18
and pedestrians. The – again, please take 15 minutes, go south to the site between especially 19
Kendall and Matadero, the 2 affected streets, specifically Kendall. It's literally – you have to be 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
very careful passing, and you've got the Mexican restaurant, El Grullense, right there. And I saw 1
the plans and the beautiful pictures and the renderings in the packet, and they really are kind of 2
deceptive because they don't show the scale of the surrounding area. And so I'm really 3
concerned about the entrances and exits too. There's just – I don't know if you've been to 4
Redwood City. The movie theater there has a entrance to the parking garage, and basically you 5
come out. And I know that this isn't going to have underground parking, but you're basically 6
driving out onto the sidewalk. And during the times where there's going to be a lot of kids in 7
the mornings and afternoons, that's a really big concern to me, not to mention just – well, it 8
doesn't sound like there's been a traffic – a transportation traffic study, and I think we really 9
need that because we're just going to open ourselves to a huge problem in the future. And 10
again, I also want to say, I think it's a great thing to have high-density housing, especially along 11
El Camino and especially some of these areas that are, well, just vacant right now. It's a great 12
opportunity, but I think we really need to do it right the first time so we don't open ourselves to 13
trouble later. Yes. I think that pretty much covers what I want to say. Thank you for your time. 14
15
Chair Akin: Thank you very much. 16
17
Samuel Tavera: And through the Chair, just wanted to ask, while Scott was speaking, there was 18
one more hand that was – additional hand that was raised on Zoom. I wanted to ask your 19
direction on that. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Let's hear the comment as well, please. 2
3
Samuel Tavera: Yes. Sounds good. Then I will – our next speaker will be Scott A. Scott, you may 4
now speak. 5
6
Scott A.: Okay. So you can hear me? 7
8
Samuel Tavera: Yes. We can hear you. 9
10
Scott A.: Okay. Great. Hey, thanks for having me in. I am calling from Milan. I decided to come 11
over to watch some hockey, and it's a little late here, so excuse me if I'm not coming through 12
clear, but yes. So I'm a Barron Park neighborhood guy. I am the current president – PTA 13
president at Fletcher Middle School, and I just want to share a couple stories and observations. 14
One is that my son – he's a 6th grader. He used to go to – he goes to Fletcher now. He used to 15
go to Barron Park, but he has – he rides his bike, and he almost got hit twice on Matadero and 16
El Camino. One time it was a BMW where the crossing guard pulled him out of the way, and 17
then the other time was a purple car but literally almost got hit twice in that area. So I'm going 18
to talk about some of the safety concerns there. Prior to – and then another story, prior to 19
being a PTA president at Fletcher, I was a PTA president at Barron Park Elementary, and it was 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
crazy. One day at a school – I was driving to school, and I – first day of school, I almost hit some 1
kids that were walking across the street, and first day being PTA president, and that would not 2
look good. So I just want to draw attention to that. There's a lot of kids in this neighborhood. 3
There's a lot of – there's near misses. There's probably some actual hits that are reported too, 4
so asking for a safety study makes a lot of sense, I think. 5
6
And then to the point about the TSRs and the Safe Route to School, these are – if – I think 7
you're aware of it. This – these are programs that are run by the City, and they prescribe routes 8
to – for the kids to ride their bikes on. These go right by Kendall and right by Matadero, which 9
are really narrow streets, so that's what the City's suggesting the kids ride down. And I'm a 10
biker myself, and I know where – it's the way to get to Fletcher and to Barron Park and to Gunn, 11
so it's – so that's the right way to get through. And then what I – in my professional life, I'm – I 12
work construction, more on the technology side than moving stuff, so seeing some of the 13
drawings there, on Page 3, whatever, it's easy to miss that the streets are narrow, and it's also 14
easy to miss that the exits of the buildings are onto Kendall and Matadero if you look closely to 15
see where the driveways are. And drop-in cars onto those streets are, of course, going to bring 16
more traffic, and then you ask yourself, would I take the side streets or would I take El Camino 17
if I had the choice? And it's easy to look at the time constraints. If you're waiting for a minute, 18
30 seconds, or maybe 2 minutes trying to get on El Camino on one of these red lights, it's a lot 19
better bet to just go and run through the neighborhood. And you can do a Google Maps search 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
or Google Maps study to see how long it takes to get to, say, Fletcher, to the – to Foothills and 1
Arastradero, just up in that southwest direction. And if you're a car and you have the option to 2
go on the streets, you're going to go – and you're worried for time, you're going to go on the 3
streets. And just thinking of my little story when I almost ran into the – those kids crossing the 4
street, it's like… 5
6
Samuel Tavera: Thank you. 7
8
Scott A.: …where a lot of kids… 9
10
Samuel Tavera: This concludes your time. 11
12
Scott A.: …a lot of kids are. Yes. So yes, that's my comments, so thank you. 13
14
Chair Akin: Thank you, Mr. Anderson. 15
16
Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Winter. Winter, you may now speak. 17
18
Winter D.: Thank you. I just jumped into the meeting. I had just a few points to make, all about 19
one subject, which is ingress and egress on Matadero or, for that matter, on Kendall. Barron 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Park, as maybe you know, didn't become part of Palo Alto until the mid '70s. We were 1
unincorporated county area before that. We have – we're an odd little neighborhood, a cul-de-2
sac. You can come in from El Camino, but you can't go out in the back, and so we're this little 3
kind of peninsula or little island. And because of being such a strange little neighborhood, we 4
have a number of streets that are extremely narrow and weird, and they are right off of El 5
Camino. So here are my points. I know the situation well because Creekside is right across the 6
street, right across Matadero – Creekside Inn – from this project, and so I have – I know a lot 7
about the Creekside development, which is going to be – they're proposing 200 and some units 8
of housing and some other stuff. So they're going to be very near each other with – just across 9
the street from each other, and so it's going to be multi-impact in terms of the street of 10
Matadero Avenue. 11
12
So my husband and I measured the street, Matadero Avenue, and it's a hundred feet. For the 13
first hundred feet, it's a normal width – and I'm sorry, I can't quite remember, but it's 25 feet or 14
something, but that's only for a hundred feet. And then it narrows down to 17 feet for the 15
entire rest of the way until it goes up to Bol Park. And so it's extremely narrow, and it cannot be 16
widened because of city infrastructure, and Matadero Creek literally comes within a very, very 17
few feet, 6 or 8 feet, of Matadero, so you have a very narrow street. And at the end of it is the 18
pedestrian bike path and – that goes from Los Altos, behind Gunn, Stanford Research Park into 19
Stanford, and so there's a lot of bike traffic that wants to be on there. You can't turn right on 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
red onto El Camino from Matadero anymore, and so for these reasons, the ingress and egress 1
just cannot be on Matadero. It can't be on Matadero at Creekside Inn. If that gets developed – 2
as you know, there's a preliminary application in, and it cannot be on Matadero for the… 3
4
Samuel Tavera: Thank you. That concludes your time. 5
6
Winter D.: Thank you. 7
8
Chair Akin: Thank you, Ms. Dellenbach. Do we have any other requests to speak? 9
10
Samuel Tavera: Through the chair, there's no more raised hands on Zoom, and I have no more 11
public comment cards. 12
13
Chair Akin: Very good. You are free to respond to any of the public comments if you would like. 14
We may have additional questions to ask of you as well. 15
16
Jeff Smith: Yes. So although the questions were more related to the project than the map, I 17
think it is a good opportunity to say a couple words here. First of all, we have the same goal 18
here in outcome, which is the safety of every person, pedestrian, guest, resident to our 19
building, not only people entering with cars, people entering the pedestrian entrances, and 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
certainly all the visitors and all the people that are passing on the 2 streets. First off, I think it 1
should be acknowledged that we're actually – this new project would actually complete the 2
sidewalks at those 2 streets where there aren't sidewalks or safe passage there right now, so 3
the first thing is, we're going to create really nice, safe, wide sidewalks, 8, 10 feet wide. Those 4
are wider than most that you'll see around town. The second thing is, we did space, and we 5
provided the 2 entrances on purpose, and that is to make sure that one entrance and one 6
location did not take the full burden of the traffic. And that is always a good plan, and most 7
projects, most sites, do not have that opportunity. That is a very good one. But there are a lot 8
of projects that we can point to. And by the way, when we come back to City Council, we'll 9
make sure we address this and maybe even present a – more of a presentation on this, but we 10
can show you examples of where we built in urban areas and have garages that – reference the 11
Redwood City parking garage that's very, very high traffic. We can do a lot of things to make 12
these very safe entrances. 13
14
And a couple things, when you think about pedestrians that are passing by, not only the 15
sidewalks that we're creating, these extremely large vision triangles and signage that we can 16
place on the outside to make sure that people know that this is a garage entrance. There is 17
visual and audio – audible warnings that can happen when gates go up and when cars come to 18
a certain point. And on the inside, there's things that we can do to make sure that the cars also 19
have the same thing there. We can put a stop sign there, we can put signs about pedestrians 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
potentially coming, we can put the convex mirrors that show people – can basically – you can 1
see around corners. And remember – I really should've started this that we are going to provide 2
a transportation study, and that will be a conditional approval that – and all of these items that 3
I'm talking about will be outlined by a professional that will make sure – because again, we're 4
building this project for the long term. We do not want accidents and unsafe conditions, 5
certainly, for any visitors, any of the neighborhood or any of the future residents and guests of 6
our projects. So there's a lot of great things that we can do to make sure, and certainly the 7
study will help, but again, it's going to take a little bit of that input from the experts and – as 8
well as city staff reviewing that stuff. So again, we are aligned in a lot of these concerns. 9
10
Chair Akin: Thank you very much for that. I believe it is time to open up the commission 11
discussion. I have Commissioner Templeton, then Peterson, and then Hechtman, then Vice 12
Chair Chang. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you to the public for the 15
excellent comments. I see a lot of neighbors out here and on Zoom, and I really appreciate the 16
way you've characterized what it's like to drive in our neighborhood on Matadero, also in 17
Ventura. I used to live on Margarita, which becomes Matadero when you cross the street, so – 18
and I still live in Barron Park, so I have a lot of familiarity with the problems that you're 19
mentioning. My daughter and I drive on Kendall to get to her friend's house, so – for many 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
years, so I understand that. I'm excited about the idea of this project, and I think that you're – 1
the developer is going to struggle to address these needs without at least one round with us. I 2
don't know if the – maybe the staff can tell us if – is the ARB going to speak on behalf of the City 3
in terms of questioning about the streets, the access, the sidewalks, and the things that the 4
Planning Commission usually does? 5
6
Steven Switzer: If I may, so this project did go before the Architectural Review Board, the actual 7
development of that 321-unit residential building back in December, and that was just one 8
meeting, and it is moving forward to City Council… 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: Did they ask about any of these kinds of transportation-related 11
questions? 12
13
Steven Switzer: There was feedback regarding the garage and the screening of garages along 14
those side streets as well as the placement of ingress and egress on the site, so… 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: So no. Okay. Thank you for letting me know about that. I hope that 17
the Transportation Department, who isn't here for us to ask questions and to gain security and 18
confidence about moving forward with this project, has had a chance to look at it. We have not 19
been able to hear their feedback, and I think everything that the neighbors have brought up in 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the community and, indeed, even the developer has brought up, and the ARB, hasn't been 1
addressed, and we're making this decision in the absence of that information. So while 2
technically we can, I don't know how responsible it is, and I just want to go on record saying 3
that I feel extremely uncomfortable with us being given part of the information when we have a 4
lot of things to offer to improve this. That said, I know why you've done it, and it's not – that's 5
not a personal comment. I understand we're trying to comply with state law. Regarding Kendall, 6
I hope that the City will work with the developer and with the neighbors to identify how to 7
address this in the most reasonable possible manner. I assume there are houses. Is it only 8
commercial property, or are there houses across the street from Kendall at that location? I'm 9
trying to remember. I think there's a store at least, but I don't know if there's homes. 10
11
Jennifer Armer: There's one-story homes. 12
13
Steven Switzer: As you go down Kendall, residential development appears, but as it's centered 14
along El Camino, there's commercial. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: Has it been discussed at all by the City to somehow make that 17
development go in and out on Kendall and have people that would use Kendall from the other 18
part of the neighborhood to go other ways? Is that something that's been looked at? 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Steven Switzer: If I may, just to go back to kind of the comment that Commissioner Ji had 1
mentioned at the start of this discussion, trying to center the conversation regarding those 7 2
findings in the Attachment B… 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: Oh, I'm going to do that, so why don't I… 5
6
Steven Switzer: All right. 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: …why don't I reset? I'm not going to find these findings unless I get 9
these answers about whether or not the site is suitable, and whether you can get in and out of 10
this lot with the development hinges – that my decision is hinged on that because these things 11
that have been brought up are a serious concern for the life and safety of the residents and the 12
schoolchildren in the neighborhood, also the future residents of this, hopefully, this 13
development that will get built, so I'm not trying to go outside of scope. I definitely hear you on 14
that, but as I'm looking at the findings, I think we need answers to these questions in order to 15
make them, so I'm hopeful that asking these questions will help me get comfortable with our 16
approach so that I can make the findings. And I know that's tough. I know – I understand that 17
this is not – we were not planning to spend all this time, but this is the situation we're in. We 18
have these plans in the state they're in with the conversation level that we've had, and it's up to 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
us to find the findings based on that lack of information, so that's why we're asking more 1
questions than maybe you anticipated, and I'm sorry about that. 2
3
Jennifer Armer: And I understand how difficult this is because it does feel like the process is 4
being fragmented – circumvented. However, a lot merger of this sort could've been proposed 5
without any details of development being proposed, and so because the development… 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Now… 8
9
Jennifer Armer: …is not what's being reviewed tonight, I understand that it feels incomplete 10
because that was going through a different review with final decision… 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: So let's take a quick look at the site is not physically suitable for the 13
type of development. How do we make that decision in absence of information about the 14
development? 15
16
Steven Switzer: Great question. So… 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: I'm sorry, guys. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Steven Switzer: You're fine. 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: I know everyone here has the best intentions. You heard even the 3
public is excited about having more housing like this in Palo Alto. That's not the question, but 4
we do have to make our decisions. That's what you've asked us to do, and we're trying to figure 5
it out. And guys, if we need to – Chair, if we need to rotate if I'm taking too much time, let me 6
know, but this is the kind of question that's in my head, and I'm struggling with it. 7
8
Steven Switzer: Right. So I can definitely take a stab at that, and I believe that our counsel as 9
well can maybe weigh in on some of those findings and kind of the narrow scope for a vesting 10
tentative map. 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: Sure. 13
14
Steven Switzer: So if we're referring to Findings 3 and 4, addressing the first one or, should I say 15
the last, 4, would be the density of the site, so the density is – it is identified in the El Camino 16
Real focus area, and… 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: The density that was like, what, 37? Is that what you mean? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Steven Switzer: No. So… 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: Oh. 3
4
Steven Switzer: …there's projected housing inventory sites, so those have an anticipated 5
number for development. As for the density, that would be garnered from the zoning, and the 6
property, as proposed, would meet those requirements in the El Camino Real focus area and 7
those standards, so the site is suitable for the density, and it was identified for a high-density 8
housing project. For moving on to Number 3 for suitability of the development, that would be 9
looking at either the lot width, depth, the area, and whether that could tie into 10
accommodating, say, that following finding with the density. 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. I see where you're going with that, and I'm going to push 13
back a little to make sure we're talking this through, but is there any – it sounds like, from your 14
perspective, you're like there's no discretion here. Just do it. It checks the boxes. Where's the 15
discretion? Why is it in front of us? 16
17
Chair Akin: Counselor, do you have something to add? 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Albert Yang: Yes. So this item is here tonight because our code requires vesting tentative maps 1
to be considered by the Planning Commission and then by the City Council. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: And what… 4
5
Albert Yang: But… 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: …are we allowed to consider, Mr. Yang? 8
9
Albert Yang: Yes. Typically you would be asked to exercise your discretion in making these 10
findings. 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: That's right. 13
14
Albert Yang: And technically, that is also what you're being asked to do tonight. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: I… 17
18
Albert Yang: That… 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: …agree. 1
2
Albert Yang: That said, because this project is subject to the builder's remedy, even if we don't 3
make these findings – even if we are unable to make these findings, we must still approve the 4
project and the subdivision. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: Who is we that must still approve? 7
8
Albert Yang: The… 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: City Council? 11
12
Albert Yang: The City. Yes. The City Council. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: Right. Okay. So we can make our findings, and they won't have any 15
bearing on what the Council needs to do. 16
17
Albert Yang: Correct. 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. Thank you for clearing that up. That's my questions for now. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson followed by Commissioners Hechtman and Vice Chair 2
Chang. 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: So I would like to reiterate everything that Commissioner Templeton 5
said, which I think was summed up with the term circumvented just to say I agree. I'm feeling 6
also uncomfortable, but I also understand it's builder's remedy. I guess that's builder's remedy 7
is uncomfortable. So my questions that I have here: First – we started talking about it a minute 8
ago here where we talked about the El Camino Plan. So we have an El Camino Plan and can we 9
go over in a little bit more detail how does this lot mesh with the El Camino Plan? Because in 10
the – we really haven't been given a packet to review. We've got a lot planned with parking lot 11
lines on it I guess. And so how how does this overlay with our El Camino Plan? 12
13
Jennifer Armer: So I'll start just by saying that you haven't been given a lot to review because 14
the proposed development is not what you're reviewing today. You're reviewing the question 15
of merging these lots, and so the lot size is something that is appropriate per our regulations. 16
The El Camino Real Plan that the – those additional rules for that area are more about the 17
development… 18
19
Commissioner Peterson: Understood. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: …not about the parcel itself. 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: You've reminded us 4 times now… 4
5
Jennifer Armer: Yes. And… 6
7
Commissioner Peterson: I think everybody is – duly understands this. So my question is still the 8
same. 9
10
Steven Switzer: So if we direct our attention to the Packet Page 13 regarding that zoning 11
compliance that lays out the process that Assistant Director Armer was detailing of how those 12
areas were identified in El Camino Real Focus Area, and in tandem with that is also identifying 13
sites for the proposed density. So that ties back into that Finding 3 and 4 for sites that would be 14
suitable for types of residential development. So in short, Council had identified this site as 15
being suitable for a high-density housing project. As for those details and what that 16
development would look like, that's up to a developer. It's an interesting situation that we have 17
a builder's remedy project that is in conjunction with this vesting tentative map that extends 18
the applicant some waivers and concessions from our zoning code and compliance with those 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
standards. So it could create in a lot of situations a project that might be undesirable from 1
deviating from certain standards that we have. 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: A little bit visual. Can we bring up the El Camino Plan? 4
5
Steven Switzer: Would you like to see the map? 6
7
Commissioner Peterson: Yes, I would like to see the map. 8
9
Steven Switzer: All right. Well, as noted by Assistant Director, we have the map that was 10
recently approved, so we can pull that up. Bear with us. 11
12
Commissioner Peterson: Because I think this is actually on one of the splits where we we did 13
housing – high-density housing. There were sections that we set up, and I think this is 14
somewhere in there. 15
16
Chair Akin: I believe Vice Chair Chang has a quick interjection if that's okay with you, 17
Commissioner. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice Chair Chang: So this is the history, and we actually added this site to the El Camino Real 1
Focus Area. It was added. So for the context to remind all of us as well as to – for the members 2
of the public who are here, the El Camino – the genesis of the El Camino Real Focus Area was 3
because we had housing targets that we wanted to plan for, and where the focus area started 4
was where we didn't think – where we thought density was – where the density and the height 5
were appropriate, that there was the infrastructure as well as it wouldn't impact the neighbors, 6
like the residential neighbors. However, then when this came again and there were some 7
modifications made our hands were tied a little bit, and that was because we add – so we 8
added several builder's remedy projects to the El Camino Focus Area not because we thought 9
that those were great places for density. So I think that what's in the packet is maybe a little bit 10
kind of too brief – not necessarily because we thought that those were great spots for density 11
but because our hands were tied by builder's remedy applications. And given that the best way 12
for us – I mean, staff had presented to us that one of the best ways for us to exert some 13
amount of control or to hopefully provide an alternative to the builder's remedy that might be a 14
little less objectionable, that we could add it into the El Camino Real Focus Area until we agreed 15
"Okay, we'll do that." So that's kind of the context. So it's not that we thought oh, this is the 16
best place for that original density that was in the – for the initial El Camino Real Focus Area, 17
but we're adding this in because our hands are tied due to builder's remedy as an alternative. 18
So I think that's the context that I wanted to provide. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: That's helpful. 1
2
Steven Switzer: Thank you for that, Commissioner. And if we go to our municipal code, that 3
would be 1814.020. So that's the Housing Element Opportunity sites as well as those 4
opportunity and focus areas. So this is one of those figures. So this would be Figure 3. I've 5
opened that up here. Apologies for the low resolution, but the project site would be where the 6
cursor is located. 7
8
Commissioner Peterson: Give me one second. 9
10
Albert Yang: This is actually an old figure on – that's on our code website. So we will need to 11
find the updated map. 12
13
Commissioner Peterson: Can we put the map back up? 14
15
Chair Akin: That's the old map. They're looking for the new map. 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: Oh, got it. It's that much. 18
19
Steven Switzer: Apologies, thanks. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. I've got the map here and I'm holding them side by side. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: That's in the packet, so you can just pull it up. Unless the packet… 4
5
Steven Switzer: That is the packet there. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: …[inaudible 94:42]. 8
9
Steven Switzer: Oh, I see what you're saying. 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 94:45]. 12
13
Steven Switzer: Right. That's what I was looking for in the packet. 14
15
Commissioner Peterson: While you're doing that, should – is it okay if I go on to my next 16
question and then we'll loop back? 17
18
Steven Switzer: Of course. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Please, go ahead. 1
2
Commissioner Peterson: So my second question of 3 questions is that the streets are narrow. I 3
am familiar with this area from going to the Taqueria, which is incredibly popular, not less 4
because of their wonderful dining area behind the building. Is – this is one of the few streets in 5
Palo Alto I'll walk down in the middle of. If I see a friend, I'm not concerned at all to just wave at 6
them and walk in the shade of the trees. It is a very sleepy street; I am certain of that. I'm not 7
sure if it fully has sidewalks even. I think it's the old county dirt side of the roads. I don't know 8
why that street is so sleepy because now that I look at the map, it's the only way to get to the 9
entire side of North Barron Park as best I can tell. 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: At Matadero. 12
13
Commissioner Peterson: At Matadero. I have photographs of me and my kids walking down the 14
middle of that street doing a selfie. It's that lazy of a street. That we don't have a traffic plan 15
seems to be a substantial oversight because I'm not seeing at all how the traffic navigates that 16
side of Barron Park at all. I'm not a traffic engineer in any way, shape, or form, but there is 17
software that you punch these things in and add some exits and put how many and it will tell 18
you just how big of a problem you're going to have there or not a problem. So I definitely want 19
to ask, what is the plan on the traffic plan? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Steven Switzer: I can definitely take a stab at that and then the applicant as well, I think, has 2
noted their intent is to provide that. It will be… 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: Right, but we're here tonight. 5
6
Steven Switzer: It will be a condition of approval for the project development as for the vesting 7
tentative map is back to the conversation of those 7 findings if the site would be suitable for 8
the density and if it could accommodate a building of that size. So I understand the concerns 9
regarding that, but it is a little difficult to provide a nexus to that when it needs to be tied to 10
those findings. 11
12
Jennifer Armer: So I will add that the plan, it – because of the short timeline that the City has to 13
make a decision on this project, the plan is to have that transportation study conducted and 14
have a condition of approval that they comply with the recommendations of the transportation 15
study if it's not able to be completed before a decision must be made by Council. This is not the 16
usual way that we process projects in Palo Alto, and so we understand. 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: So if I understand correctly – I'm just putting it together here – we're 19
required to do the traffic plan as part of our process, and because this bypasses CEQA – I'm 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
going to get to my next questions actually on the legislation – that's why we don't have a traffic 1
plan submitted because that would be more like a CEQA-type process, and so then 2
we're supplementing by doing our own traffic plan? 3
4
Jennifer Armer: So it is usually a request part of – as part of CEQA. The – I don't believe the City 5
will be doing the traffic plan. I believe that's something that's going to be required for the 6
applicant to submit… 7
8
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 9
10
Jennifer Armer: …to hire a traffic engineer or traffic professional – transportation professional 11
to provide that study. 12
13
Commissioner Peterson: So it sounds like we have another meeting here just by the fact that 14
we need to see a traffic plan. 15
16
Jennifer Armer: Unfortunately, we cannot have additional meetings. That is another one of the 17
limitations. 18
19
Commissioner Peterson: This is our one shot. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: Correct. 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. So I just imagine a traffic plan, which I can do. It's okay. So my 4
third – or did we get the map of the El Camino? 5
6
Steven Switzer: Yes. 7
8
Albert Yang: Yes. Sorry. So I was mistaken earlier that that map that staff was showing was the 9
correct one. I just misread it. Sorry. 10
11
Commission Templeton: Chair, can I just ask a quick follow-up question to the traffic thing? It's 12
quick; I promise. 13
14
Chair Akin: Yes. And let's move on and we'll [inaudible 99:06]. 15
16
Commission Templeton: Does this traffic study – are you guys – it's going to include how to 17
make people safe, that this will be safe? Safety was brought up a lot. So safety and traffic are 18
separate things. I just want to make sure that that's going to be part of it. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Steven Switzer: So full disclosure, I definitely am not a traffic consultant or expertise in any of 1
that, but based on other developments of the size and proposed density, those traffic studies 2
do evaluate whether there's left turn warrants, whether there's a turning lane that may be 3
required or what queuing… 4
5
Commission Templeton: Vehicular, bicycle, pedestrian safety? 6
7
Steven Switzer: All of those items would be evaluated. So in the course of that study. 8
9
Commission Templeton: I really appreciate you adding your voice to the chorus of how much 10
we miss our transportation people tonight, thank you. 11
12
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. And then can you just give me a quick update and refresh my 13
memory on the focus area on El Camino. I know we had focus areas within the focus area and 14
then high-density areas, and we had a commercial piece in there where I think it was first floors 15
had to be commercial ready. 16
17
Jennifer Armer: I'll start by saying there are overlapping maps and plans… 18
19
Commissioner Peterson: I understand this. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: …occurring here, so yes. So the 2 different things that I think you are 2
referencing, one is the El Camino Real Focus Area, and that provided for additional 3
development capacity height – changes in the setbacks and daylight planes, for example – to 4
encourage development projects to come through the City's process rather than using state 5
laws to override our regulations. The other was a map that was prepared for the Retail 6
Preservation Ordinance to designate which areas. There would be more requirement for retail 7
preservation versus site – or areas where a partial replacement of existing retail would only be 8
required. And so that's a different map that was what I referenced in the presentation at the 9
beginning, the new map that was recently approved with the different nodes – the retail nodes 10
on El Camino. 11
12
Commissioner Peterson: So is this within the retail – retail preservation on this one here was 13
further up El Camino, and there was one further down. I'm going from memory. This one is not 14
within a retail preservation? 15
16
Jennifer Armer: Because of builder's remedy, they do not need to preserve any of the retail. 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: Got it. But I was just curious if we had identified this area for retail 19
preservation. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: No. 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: No? Okay. 4
5
Jennifer Armer: It's across the street. 6
7
Commissioner Peterson: It's across the street. Okay. And then that brings me to my third 8
question. Thank you for just refreshing my memory on on the maps. It would have been nice if 9
we had the maps just side by side, but I know that's it's not necessarily required so – which 10
brings me to the third question, which is what exactly is required? Can you just give me a quick 11
tutorial? What is the builder's remedy? What is the state ordinance, just the main – top 3 main 12
points on the builder's remedy? I've read it, but I did hear this is something new and the 13
builder's remedy has changed SB 8. There's a bunch of numbers floating in my head. 14
15
Albert Yang: Yes. So Builder's Remedy is a provision in the Housing Accountability Act, and that 16
is a state law that limits the reasons that a city can have for denying a housing project. And 17
specifically, when you have a housing project that provides a certain percentage of affordable 18
housing, the reasons that a city can rely on to deny the project become much more limited. And 19
once you have a project that qualifies for the builder's remedy, those reasons become even 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
narrower. And so normally we would be able to rely on an inconsistency with our zoning or a 1
general plan as a reason for denying a project. That is no longer an allowable reason for a 2
builder's remedy project. So our local standards that are contained in our zoning ordinance and 3
the policies in our general plan are not constraints on the builder's remedy project. 4
5
Commissioner Peterson: Then – thank you, Mr. Yang. What exactly is the – what would – this 6
would be Building Code SB – yes. What's the number of the builder's remedy? Because it seems 7
to be – it's been changing. 8
9
Albert Yang: So about every year there are probably you know 5 or 6 bills that amend the 10
Housing Accountability Act in some way… 11
12
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 13
14
Albert Yang: …but that section of the code is always the Government Code Section 65589.5. 15
16
Commissioner Peterson: 65589.5? 17
18
Albert Yang: That's right. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. It'll probably do me good to remember that. Appreciate it. That 1
is it, Chair. 2
3
Chair Akin: And now I move to my right; Commissioner Hechtman. 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. So I'm going to, in this round, go macro and I've got a few 6
details to talk about in a second round. To start, I'm going to ask staff to pull up Finding Number 7
6, and I have a question of Mr. Yang about that. Finding Number 6. 8
9
Albert Yang: Bear with me while I share my screen. 10
11
Chair Akin: We have that on Packet Page 19 for folks who are listening elsewhere. 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. So a lot of the discussion here has been about the 14
limitations of scope we have, and I'm wanting to drill down on that a little bit. And based upon 15
everything we've heard in our discussions, it seems like Finding Number 6 is the place to sort of 16
stake the discussion. And so that's why I want to sort of flesh out what these words from state 17
law mean. And I see there are 2 things that we look at to determine if they are likely to cause 18
serious public health problems. The first one is stated here: the design of the subdivision, and 19
to me, that means the lines on the page. In this situation, we've got 7 parcels, so a bunch of 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
lines, and we're basically erasing all the internal lines so that we just have 1 line around the 1
outside. And I think that is what is meant by the design of the subdivision. Of course, these 2
findings are more often used to take one parcel and break it into smaller pieces. And so that's 3
where, really, this language comes from, the design is when you break up this one parcel, is 4
that going to cause serious public health problems? But here, we're putting them together. So I 5
wanted to first ask Mr. Yang if that's what is meant by design of the subdivision. It's the lines, in 6
this instance, where we're merging the lines around the outside. 7
8
Albert Yang: That's correct. It's talking about the shape of the lot lines. 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. And so we have to look at the shape of the parcel and ask if 11
that shape is going to cause serious public health problems. Then we go to the second part of 12
this, type of improvements. So on this one, Mr. Yang, does that mean when they use the word 13
type, does that mean residential versus commercial or industrial? Does it mean a number of 14
stories? Is it – does it really mean design of subdivision improvements? Give us some guidance 15
on that. 16
17
Albert Yang: Yes. I think that there's some room for interpretation and discretion there, but it 18
would be more consistent with the Subdivision Map Act for this to – this finding to be applied 19
to the construction type and the use classification. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. As contrasted with the particular design. 2
3
Albert Yang: Correct. 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 6
7
Jennifer Armer: And as previously stated, often this is a subdivision where you might be 8
creating new roads, and so those new roadways and sidewalks associated with the 9
improvements, though, the public improvements are often the part that's being looked at when 10
you're looking at a subdivision as well. 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: So the improvements required for, like you said, in a more normal 13
subdivision, you're breaking land up and you're going to require certain improvements. The 14
utilities run a certain way. The roads are laid out. 15
16
Jennifer Armer: And access, correct. 17
18
Commissioner Hechtman: Access, right. Okay. So thank you for that. So I want to thank the 19
neighbors of this property who have come to speak tonight as well as those who appeared 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
online from as far away as Italy. I think you can tell that the Commission heard you and that the 1
concerns that you have expressed, I think you've heard those reverberating back from some of 2
the members of the Commission. It's often the case that projects have come before us and a 3
majority or all of the Commission have felt that the developer could do better, and we told 4
them so. And on many of those occasions, the developer has gone away and changed some 5
things and come back with a better project. And so that's the process working. Here, I think part 6
of the frustration you're hearing expressed is we're constrained. Our hands are tied. While 7
normally we can pick more directly at access issues and shadowing and height, those types of 8
things, here, we're looking at a flat map basically, and any concerns we have to try to express 9
have to fit into these 7 state law findings. And so that's the difficulty. And I think our job, as 10
sympathetic as we may be, is to give our City Council a supportable recommendation. And so I 11
don't know how this is going to turn out, but if our map recommendation doesn't suit your 12
purposes, that doesn't mean we don't wish we could do more. And again, I just don't know how 13
it's going to turn out. So I'm going to stop there with that overview. I will say that given our 14
limitations here, I have difficulty not making these 7 findings because of what these words 15
mean and what I understand them to mea.I It's interesting. Although we're told we can't 16
consider the project, but Finding Number 4 is: is the property suitable for the proposed 17
density? And so there, I do think we have some latitude, but really, the question is can this 18
property not fit a 321-unit building? And it can. And so even though that seems like an opening, 19
I don't think, properly applied, it is. I'm expecting that one or more of my fellow commissioners 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
may have a very different view, and so we're going to hear about that. So I'm going to stop 1
there. Thank you. 2
3
Chair Akin: Thank you. So what I would like to do is hear from Vice Chair Chang and then 4
Commissioner Ji, and then I will wrap up the first round and we'll move on to another round of 5
comments. All right, Vice Chair Chang. 6
7
Vice Chair Chang: All right. Thank you, all the members of the public who've come to speak 8
tonight. We really value your comments. I'm glad to hear that what I saw has been 100 percent 9
corroborated by the neighbors. And whereas – I think that the streets are often sleepy, but at 10
9:15 when I was there this morning, possibly because people are going to and from work or 11
school, there were 6 cars piled up on Matadero behind me as I was exiting and trying to go onto 12
El Camino. So it's not always sleepy, but it should – we would like it to always be sleepy. So I 13
just have to say this – start off by saying the State has created a nightmare for us in this 14
situation, and it breaks my heart to see this kind of thing happen – that's assuming we can't find 15
ways to mitigate this – because while this – I'm so excited to see that vacant lots and kind of 16
unattractive lots are going to turn into housing, that's great, but we have a circulation problem. 17
We have infrastructure challenge here. And because of the compressed timeline created by the 18
laws and as well as this particular application being a builder's remedy application, our hands 19
are very much tied. That said, I'd say to my fellow commissioners, our hands are tied. So we are 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
not – if we cannot make the findings, it may not ultimately change the outcome necessarily, but 1
we don't have to make the findings if we can't make them because we know that the project – 2
just simply because the project is inevitable. We – what I would say is that I do think there are 3
major safety concerns here. This – these 2 weeks have been hard. There was just actually 4
another massive accident on the tracks, different outcome this time, thank goodness. And 5
obviously, this is unrelated to the tracks, but student lives and student safety are really 6
important. And for those of you who don't know, that's how I got involved with this 7
commission. And so for context, this is – Kendall and Matadero are the safe routes to school 8
and essentially the only ways for certain kids in Palo Alto to get to Barron Park Elementary 9
School. It is not only the safe route to school, Matadero is not only the – Kendall's the safe 10
route to school for Barron Park, both Kendall and Matadero. Matadero is also for the middle 11
school and the high school. And I gave Mr. Tavera maps to pull up. 12
13
So maybe Mr. Tavera can just pull up the Barron Park map so we can see what's going on here. 14
And the problem that we have here is only going to get worse because of the El Camino Real 15
Focus Area. I still think that that's the right place for housing, but I didn't, at the time we're 16
making all these decisions, I didn't anticipate that there would be a Builder's Remedy Project 17
here – 2, actually, Builder's Remedy Projects on either side of Kendall. And so the only way for 18
all those kids who are going to live in the housing in the El Camino Real Focus Area to get to 19
their schools – and so we're talking about, I think, thousands – over a thousand units – 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
thousands of units here – is going to be on these streets. And for context, Barron Park 1
Elementary has had – it has somewhere between 200 to 230 students. This one single 2
development is 331 units. So that's – that kind of shows sort of the scale of the problem as well 3
as, yes, just the magnitude of the problem. And then there's the Creekside Inn Project, and 4
there's Palo Alto Square, there's ones across the street, there's just going to be many, many, 5
many more. So I'm very concerned about this because I couldn't drive down the street today 6
without slowing down and pulling over so another car could come the other direction. 7
8
We are the Planning and Transportation Commission, and so even – regardless of what happens 9
with respect to making these findings, I think it's important that we make some 10
recommendations so that Council can understand our concerns. And I think that that's really 11
critical that we do today. And the other couple – I have a whole bunch of notes here, but a 12
couple of other things in the packet, we weren't told – I think maybe we didn't know at the 13
time the packet was being written that the developer was considering adding easements like 14
official easements for the sidewalks. We could see the sidewalks on the plan and we could see 15
the easements in the cross section for the public access for the sidewalks. And so at a 16
minimum, I'm hoping that we could formalize that. And it sounds like the developer is 17
amenable to that, and so that might be an additional explicit condition of approval for 18
easements not just for the El Camino Real section but also the sidewalks on either side. And 19
thank you to the developer for including those sidewalks; I do think that that will help some. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
And so I'm just going to – I think that there may be some – as I was looking at this map, there 2
may be a way where we could route traffic away from Kendall and onto Matadero and then can 3
we add a bike lane or something on Matadero? Because one of the things that the developer 4
was talking about was pedestrians, pedestrians. There's also bike – lots of bicyclists, hordes of 5
bicyclists for the high school that can come through at times. And so it's not just about the 6
pedestrians; it's also about the bicyclists and about people being able to see bicyclists past 7
parked cars and all of that as well as bicyclists needing to move into the opposing lane of traffic 8
if there's delivery vehicles blocking us. So we need to think about all of those things. And then 9
the final thing I wanted to say is that regarding the findings, I also looked at Finding Number 6 10
just as Commissioner Hechtman did, and I appreciate that Mr. Yang said that there is some 11
discretion how we can look at this. 12
13
And traditionally, if this were a condominium subdivision, we would be worried about the 14
traffic flow of those streets, so it's kind of the reverse situation here. I'm still worried about the 15
traffic flow in and out of the development. Now I know that we're not supposed to – we're 16
supposed to pretend that we didn't see the development, but that said, I can't unsee the 17
driveways on Kendall and Matadero. And I also saw the public comment and staff's response to 18
the public comment about how we have a comp plan – sorry, not a comp plan. We have 19
objective standards that say that we want to keep the driveways off of El Camino. So kind of 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
our own legislation in combination with this map, therefore, would dictate that approving the 1
map would necessitate ingress and egress on the side streets. And so I'm – I think we can solve 2
this since we are the city and we can make exceptions. And since we can't really say no to the 3
development as a whole, maybe the solution would be ingress and egress on El Camino. 4
Unfortunately, because we haven't been given that option to study nor is it really what we're 5
being asked to do today, I'm not – I don't know what to say. I don't have a recommendation to 6
make specifically as to where that – where the ingress and egress should be. All I know is that 7
where it is right now is a problem. So I don't – ultimately don't think I'll be able to make Finding 8
Number 6 even though we're just supposed to consider the map because in – the map, in 9
combination with our own legislation or our own rules, the context makes it such that I don't 10
think it's – we have a safe situation. So okay, that's it for me for now. 11
12
Chair Akin: Thank you, Vice Chair. Commissioner Ji. 13
14
Commission Ji: Thank you, Chair. And I really want to thank the members of the public for 15
taking their time. And as you have heard from all the other more eloquent commissioners than 16
myself, I think you've been heard loud and clear. I also want to talk about how Commissioner 17
Templeton – who kicked this off – and I both live pretty close to the development, I, myself, live 18
in Ventura, and the Commission is incredibly tired of me talking about safe routes to school on 19
El Camino Way, which is right right where I live. And it is so – it is very difficult to imagine a 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
more hazardous situation than that as myself, I went through the K-12 public school system 1
here at PAUSD. I biked to school since I was in kindergarten, so I'm very familiar with the Safe 2
Routes to School Programs, and I'm very sympathetic about the issues that the fellow 3
commissioners have discussed. Specifically for myself, I have biked on Matadero, and especially 4
with the bike connectivity and the BPTP updates that we want to have, we plan on probably 5
seeing more people on Matadero when we have the bike tunnel – the South Palo Alto bike 6
tunnel that will be connecting more through the neighborhood. And the other thing I also kind 7
of want to talk about is that although we are not able to see the whole plan, we are able to see 8
some of the information on the vesting tentative map such that the label for Kendall is 40 feet 9
wide and that Matadero 60 feet wide, but I guess I'm curious about where we think that most 10
of the traffic is going to go given that the plan actually shows that the wider egress, the 23-foot-11
wide egress, is actually on Kendall and not on Matadero as opposed to a 20-foot egress that we 12
expect to see on Matadero. So it's a little bit interesting to have had a larger mouth at the 13
smaller street. I also have thought a little bit about the TDM. I actually joined the PTC because 14
I'm very interested in transportation problems, and one thing that I'd love to see in the 15
transportation study that we do is to include the 2 other projected demand projects in the 16
transportation study. We we see that right now. This project is already pretty large relative to 17
the community, and it will have some kind of impact, but we triple it and all of a sudden we 18
have a pretty intense network effect across all of the traffic that will be entering/exiting around 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the neighborhood. So that's something that I would like to have the developer think about 1
when we have the transportation plan. 2
3
I also am nervous about making Finding Number 6 specifically around the types of 4
improvement in the safety also because our Comprehensive Plan talks about – so policy T6.6 5
says "use engineering enforcement educational tools to improve safety for all users on City 6
roadways," particularly program T6.6.3, which says to "work with PAUSD and employers to 7
promote roadway safety for all users," including bikes, through educational programs and other 8
road safety measurements. So that's something that concerns me. One thing that I did think 9
about that it potentially is in scope for the vesting tentative map is the easements. We spent – 10
the public probably heard a lot about our discussion on easements and our clarifying questions, 11
and it's because that is one of the things that's in scope, I believe, for the vesting tentative map. 12
And so I think different criteria that could be interesting to think about with regard to these 13
easements could be adding some kind of bike infrastructure as part of the – expanding the 14
easement there. In looking at bike lanes across the state, bike lanes tend to be about 4 to 6 feet 15
wide. I saw that you have an easement that is about 8 feet right now. I think that I would 16
encourage you to work with members of the public about what you might want to see, if you 17
might want to increase the easement from what it is right now, if you might want to say, "Hey, 18
it's – the public is okay with maybe instead of a 2-block sidewalk, having a 1-block sidewalk on a 19
bike lane." I think that there's a lot of creative solutions that we can play around here. I'm 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
particularly concerned about the Matadero side mostly because that's where I expect increased 1
bike traffic. Those will be my comments for now. Thank you. 2
3
Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you to all of the commissioners. You have done an 4
excellent job of encapsulating the issues that we're facing here. So I'm going to reference 5
comments from all of you in one respect or another. As Commissioner Hechtman noted, I think 6
the crux of the decision for us is Finding 6, the public safety. And I was particularly taken by 7
Assistant Director Armer's observation about roads in subdivisions. So I might argue that part of 8
what we're dealing with here is that the type of improvements that are being considered for 9
this vesting tentative map are not adequate to support Finding 6 for public safety. So it's not 10
that the improvements that are being offered are wrong, it's that additional improvements that 11
are needed are missing. So my inclination would be to say that I might find negative Finding 6 12
solely on that basis. What could be done there? Commissioner Ji has already touched on some 13
of the options that are available. The easements could be, particularly on Matadero and 14
Kendall, increased so there is space for a bike lane, for example, 15
or some other piece of infrastructure that would address the safety issues. There are creative 16
things that we can do, including – I think at some places we have 4 feet for planting strips. I 17
would certainly be willing to eliminate those in favor of a bike lane. So there may be options for 18
fine-tuning even without increasing the size of the easement. It isn't obvious to me that we 19
could recommend that. We could pass that information along to staff in order to see if Council 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
would be willing to consider it. We could, in addition to our option to vote up or down on the 1
recommendation, add conditions of approval. So I would like everybody to consider whether 2
that might be a path forward for what we do next. And I think that's enough for me. 3
4
We have several commissioners who'd like to make the next round of comments. I believe 5
Commissioner Templeton was first, then Hechtman, then Peterson. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, Chair. And thank you to staff and to the applicant for 8
listening to our probably somewhat unexpected discussion tonight. But I hope it has provided 9
some useful insight because those are exactly the kinds of things you're going to hear from 10
Council. So we hope that we're preparing you for that. And again, apologize based on the 11
circumstances preventing us from giving you better, more refined feedback and having more 12
time to look it through, but that's the situation we live in right now. So yes, I really appreciate 13
the detailed questions from Commissioner Hechtman that helped us kind of narrow down our 14
commentary. Specifically, why don't we have new roads in this housing development? And 15
what does new roads mean? It might not mean what it usually means, but it might mean 16
expanding, widening the road that we have, doing some infrastructure investment, which the 17
Chair and Commissioner Ji mentioned. So these are things we would love to have developed 18
with you, but hopefully you can work that out. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
But for the purpose of communicating our intentions and hopes to staff, safety is really 1
important. It is extremely important to everyone in this neighborhood, everyone in this city, 2
everyone who's going to be a resident of the City. We have to – that is the responsibility that 3
we have is to work with staff and the public to understand what are the concerns, how do we 4
mitigate them. So I really like the idea of having some conditions of approval to suggest to 5
Council. When – I don't know – can somebody please bring up Vice Chair Chang's slide again? 6
One of the things that comes to mind for me – I know I bring, I've brought this up before, but 7
I'm going to bring it up again because I've never brought it up in a planning context, only in a 8
transportation context – but there was a time back – thank you, let's keep that up for now – 9
there was a time back when I worked for Google where they rethought a lot of things about our 10
local infrastructure on our campus as we acquired more buildings and as we brought different 11
buildings together for the use of Google. So it's similar to this in terms of they eliminated some 12
parking lots, they put in some bike lane infrastructure, some pedestrian infrastructure in ways 13
we hadn't really thought about. So I'm going to suggest that we think about connecting to the 14
Bol Park Bike Path, bike and pedestrian path, through either Kendall or Matadero, potentially 15
through or adjacent to, as some others have mentioned, the development. But if you are going 16
to have beautification, maybe it goes through the development. I don't know. You guys can 17
decide. It's your design; it's your property. But I really hope that we can do more separation of 18
the bike lanes from the roadways as we move forward in our vision for this city, so that's a 19
possibility. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
If we do end up using Kendall Avenue, we need to understand what does that mean. I'm going 2
to throw out a proposal that could be completely crazy and we're not going to be able to talk 3
about it, so take it up with Council. But the idea of things we've done in the past with Bryant. 4
We've put the bollards up to allow bikes to go through but discourage cars to go through. 5
Would that be something our community would be willing to put up with in order to get more 6
infrastructure and kind of slow down the conflict between the bikes and the cars? That's a 7
possibility. That would also allow us to not have to create a new opening onto El Camino if that 8
bollard separation was more inward towards the Barron Park neighborhood from El Camino 9
and then the driveway of the new property would go out towards the El Camino side and 10
prevent new conflicts on that road. That's a possibility. Anyway, I hope that our transportation 11
team is able to review this conversation and realize how seriously and how we take the work 12
they do and come up with better options to suggest before this goes to Council since they'll 13
have an opportunity to study it that we won't. And that might mean coming in a little bit more 14
from Matadero and Kendall so that you have more space for the roads. I don't know that the 15
roads would come from your property or not. That's up to Council. But seriously, we have to 16
understand that creating Barron Park happened way before it was part of Palo Alto, but now 17
we're putting a lot of burden on the growth of Palo Alto into Barron Park. And there's an 18
infrastructure mismatch because when we annexed Barron Park, we did not provide 19
infrastructure. That was an intentional choice at the time because we kept it very rural. But as 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
you may note, with this high density, it's no longer rural. We may need more infrastructure in 1
order for it to be safe. And that does mean sidewalks. Again, thank you for the sidewalks. 2
3
So I am not convinced that Finding 4 can be made without conditions of approval, but I would 4
like to talk about infrastructure options for conditions of approval, and I would love to hear that 5
from my fellow commissioners as we go forward. And then the health – like Vice Chair Chang 6
said, I also am finding it very difficult to contemplate the risks that we're putting to our 7
children. My children have grown up in this neighborhood, and across the street in Ventura is 8
where they were born. When I think about the kind of danger that they are in, it's really 9
incumbent upon our city to improve the infrastructure when we're growing. So I don't want 10
that to be interpreted to not wanting to grow. I am excited about the idea of these 11
developments being put in places where we have all agreed, but separating the buildings from 12
the infrastructure, specifically not having – we're being told that safety should not be a 13
consideration in the zoning map – in the combining map. So I don't know why. It's right there. 14
That's what we have to think about. So I don't know if that's something that we need to be 15
more explicit about if Council wants to think about how this is worded. I wouldn't say that's a 16
condition of approval. I don't know if that's a separate motion or if that's just a side note, but 17
safety needs to be part of the conversation, and increasing the density of people in a area 18
requires us to reconsider the safety of the neighboring roadways. So I'm hopeful that we can – I 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
hope that staff can come up with ideas on that because we are not going to be able to help 1
articulate that any better than tonight. Thank you. 2
3
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Hechtman. 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: Turn my light on again. Sorry, you can turn me off. Some mostly quick 6
points, some truly insignificant compared to the weight of what we're talking about tonight, but 7
I want to go through them. First of all, in Finding Number 1, "consistent with applicable general 8
and specific plans," the first sentence of that finding reads that there is no adopted specific plan 9
for that project site. So that's the sentence that I had asked be added to your form and now 10
apparently it has been, so I wanted to acknowledge staff for listening and I promise never to 11
bring that up again. Next point is, in Finding 2, it refers to 37 affordable units. The staff report 12
refers to 38. I don't know which is correct, but as this goes to Council, correct one or the other 13
so they match, preferably with whatever the applicant is proposing. Let's see – third point, and 14
this is just sort of something for staff to cogitate on. I have dealt with single parcels in a single 15
use with multiple zonings; it's a mess, and I think we had something that we dealt with a couple 16
years ago with that. At some point staff should think about whether it's in the long-term best 17
interest that this parcel, once it's one parcel, should it be re-zoned to a single designation, 18
whatever designation that is. That's not something before us and I don't think it'll be before the 19
Council on this project, but in the long-range planning and consistency. Otherwise, I think, if 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
somebody wants to remodel 25 years from now and the rules for the back part of the building 1
will be different than the rules for the front part of the building because they have different 2
zoning. And I don't know that that's desirable. So something for staff to think about. 3
4
I did want to note as the next point that this project is proposing, from what I read, more 5
parking than required, so thank you, applicant, for that. That is frequently a problem we have 6
to wrestle with. Next, the access to the side streets or El Camino Real. And this is really where 7
you're hearing a lot of the safety concerns, but I think that there is now, across the frontage 8
here, a bike lane, is there not? And as I'm looking at this map, which I'm glad is still up, on Safe 9
Routes to School, you see there is no red line on El Camino, on any part of El Camino. The red 10
dotted lines are you can walk on the sidewalk, but this flags, to me, is a couple of things. First, El 11
Camino is now becoming a bike boulevard, and it's got bollards and protections, and it is being 12
designed to be a regional bikeway. And some of our kids are going to be on that as well as 13
commuting adults. And 2 things occurred to me. One, I don't know enough to know, in the long 14
run, whether having cars drive out onto El Camino across this dedicated regional bike lane is 15
going to be more or less safe than sending them out in 2 directions where maybe there are 16
fewer bikes but the average age of those bikers is younger. I just don't have the information to 17
weigh in on that, but it's the kind of thing that this project makes us daylight. And I do think, 18
now that Caltrans has done this, I suspect in the years to come we're going to revisit some of 19
these maps to see what, if any, part of this El Camino bike boulevard meets the qualifications to 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
become safe routes. And I just don't know the answer to that. But that really is part of the 1
struggle here is, to me, it's not automatic that we should move the entrance onto El Camino 2
because there's a direct conflict there. 3
4
And then the final thing I want to mention is we're talking about possibly adding some 5
conditions of approval. And maybe Mr. Yang wants to weigh in on sort of our latitude, the 6
breadth that we can do that. We have a bunch of conditions of approval here, and as I look 7
through them, the character of them really relates to what I would call subdivision 8
improvements. Typical improvements associated with a subdivision similar to what the 9
assistant director was referring to. These are storm drains, utilities, lighting, interior roads if 10
there are to be, and perhaps kind of stretching it is the type of improvement. I think this is what 11
is called a podium, but I'm not sure. It's 6 – 5 floors of wood on top of concrete, and so is that 12
type of construction, can that cause a serious public health problem? I think that particular kind 13
of construction is pretty well established to be safe. So I think we'll hear from commissioners 14
about what kind of conditions of approval they have, but I'm not sure that we have as much 15
latitude there as we like in the context of considering a vesting tentative map. Thank you. 16
17
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Peterson. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: So I'm in agreement with Commissioner Hechtman, and so I have a 1
question for staff. So I've just discovered this is a Vittoria management project with VRent. Is 2
that correct? I'm seeing heads nod behind you. 3
4
Steven Switzer: Correct. 5
6
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. So I'm a tenant for 12 years with VRent. I know I'm one of the 7
only commissioner – I think I'm the only renter. Commissioner Ji, maybe a renter. Okay, I'm the 8
only – I'm the representative of all the renters of Palo Alto. I think we have 20,000 or 9
something. I also walk everywhere and I can tell you VRent is a very walkable place, so I need 10
some advice from staff on how do I proceed on that. Yes, do I need to be recused from this 11
topic? Yes, Mr. Yang. 12
13
Albert Yang: No, you do not need to recuse for that reason. 14
15
Commissioner Peterson: So I'll stop. I was going to say this is the most beautiful project I've 16
ever seen in my life. Anyway – so I do agree with all those points. So let me collect my my 17
thoughts real quick here. So I do agree with the traffic plan and I did hear that there's 18
limitations on how much we can do but I do want to you know say that I think this project 19
would overall benefit, because there are other large projects in the vicinity of it, to do street 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
improvements and the street needs to be widened. And if nothing else, your building is going to 1
be the bottleneck for that street access into the entire neighborhood. So I'm not necessarily a 2
street planner, but it probably needs to be turn lanes on that street or something like that to at 3
least start widening it out. And then the other thought I wanted to say is to please speak with 4
Oscar from the carpenters union. The carpenters, because I noticed – I was reading in the news 5
here you have – that's where I noticed the owner – is this is a podium project with a 5-story 6
wood-frame building. The carpenters union, last time I checked, they know how to nail boards 7
together. So the point is they have the training – I know you do steel frames now – they have 8
the training center down in Morgan Hill. The carpenters have an incredible workforce in this 9
region, apprentice certified. You get a higher quality, higher productivity, but more importantly, 10
you're giving back to the community as well. You're using the workforce that lives here, 11
homeowners, renters, established members of the community, so the carpenters – you can see 12
the carpenters are here. It's a – the idea is that we have a construction and a construction 13
workforce here in the community that builds pretty much everything. Mostly a lot of the public 14
works but the private works as well is a big goal to try to be able to do that high-quality 15
construction. So that's it. Thank you. 16
17
Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner. I'm going to inject a quick comment here because 18
Commissioner Templeton inspired this idea for Transportation's consideration at some 19
indefinite point in the future. It may be worth looking at making Matadero and Kendall one way 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
in opposite directions in order to cut out a lane and use that lane for the extra safe bike 1
infrastructure that we would like to have. And that could be done post construction of this 2
project, so it has a flexibility that may be of value. 3
4
Vice Chair Chang. Oh, I apologize. I thought I saw your light on. Any further comments, 5
Commissioners? Commissioner Templeton. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Did Mr. Yang want to weigh in on Commissioner Hechtman's 8
question about how we can structure our suggestions to Council either as conditions of 9
approval or as separate line items in our motion? 10
11
Albert Yang: Sure. So any conditions of approval, they are – the general rule is that you need to 12
sort of have a nexus to the findings and why those conditions are necessary for you to make the 13
finding. Beyond that for this project, because it is a builder's remedy project, it – the conditions 14
cannot make the project infeasible. And there's also the potential staff will need to do a little 15
bit more analysis on this one, but for some projects, the City cannot impose conditions that 16
preclude the project from being constructed as proposed. So we wouldn't be able to change 17
elements of the design, for example. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. So I think what we're trying to do – thank you for that 1
feedback. What I think we're trying to do is suggest that Council do these things with whatever 2
mechanism is available to them that we don't know right now. So for example, either they 3
could ask the developer to widen the street and/or the sidewalks and/or add a bike lane, or 4
they can decide to ask the Public Works Department to do it. But we're suggesting and we want 5
to record, I think, that these are the things we think will make this project successful if it goes 6
forward in the community. So we're thinking about – we're trying to share these considerations 7
that normally are part of our work but that is going to be part of their work this time. So is 8
there a structure? Perhaps anyone from staff, if Mr. Yang has said his piece, if there's a 9
suggestion here how we move forward because we want to structure it productively. 10
11
Jennifer Armer: Thank you. And appreciate that you're trying to kind of work this in within the 12
structure. What I would recommend is that when we're – when the PTC is crafting a motion, 13
that if it is a motion for approval that it include recommended modifications, changes, some of 14
the things that you've stated. So for example, I've heard an interest in making sure that the 15
easements on the sidewalk are shown on the map; that's a an easy kind of correction that could 16
be recommended. But then also there has been discussion about additional easements or 17
infrastructure for bike lanes or widening the roads, and so I'll defer to Mr. Yang if he has an 18
opinion, but I don't think the wording of whether you describe that as a condition of approval 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
or a recommended modification, I don't know that that's critical as long as it is listed as part of 1
the changes that you are recommending. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. Thank you. And Chair, the only other just logistical question is 4
are we doing all 7 of these together, are we doing 1 at a time, or what's your thoughts on our 5
process for ourselves and our voting? 6
7
Chair Akin: Of the findings? Is the information of any use to further deliberations to do them 8
individually? 9
10
Jennifer Armer: Generally it would be a single recommendation on the project. If there are any 11
notes or modifications to the findings, that that should be included as part of the motion. But if 12
the Commission wishes to allow individual members to speak to their vote, I think that could 13
also be allowed even if it's not standard practice. 14
15
Chair Akin: That sounds like a good solution to me. Is that appropriate, Commissioner 16
Templeton? 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: Yes, I'm fine either way. Thank you. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: All right. Then eventually, I will suggest that we structure this as a single vote on all 1
the findings, and individual commissioners may speak to their votes. In the meantime, 2
Commissioner – oh, we have rearranged the list slightly. Vice Chair Chang? Okay, we seem to 3
have eliminated 2 sets of comments. Good. So given that we are going to be providing 4
information through individual comments, it doesn't sound to me as if we need to craft a 5
motion other than the staff's recommendation and then voting and speaking to our votes. 6
Commissioner Templeton? 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: I'm worried that if we include our recommendations in the motion, 9
they might not get passed. 10
11
Chair Akin: I was specifically suggesting that the recommendations would not be in the motion. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Ah, I see. There's 2 different motions? 14
15
Chair Akin: We could do it that way. Is that useful? 16
17
Jennifer Armer: I would, I guess, logistically and legally, open up to Mr. Yang if he'd like to add. 18
We definitely need a motion with a recommendation on the project, which requires those 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
findings. I don't see a problem with that, including recommended modifications as part of that 1
motion, but I also think there could be some voting or a straw poll in advance or afterwards. 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: I think what we're suggesting is that – to split them up. In other words, 4
because the recommendations can't really be conditions of approval… 5
6
Jennifer Armer: My question is, it feels that these recommended changes that have been 7
discussed for some commissioners might make the difference as to whether they can make the 8
findings or not. And so if that is the case, they would need to [inaudible 156:10]. 9
10
Chair Akin: I didn't interpret it as changing whether they could make the findings or not… 11
12
Jennifer Armer: Okay. 13
14
Chair Akin: …but changing on whether they might support the motion. Because if the motion 15
includes both the recommendation on the map and the additional recommendations that are 16
being discussed, then objecting to either of those might lead to the motion being voted down. 17
18
Jennifer Armer: I can see that different opinions about what additional comments could 19
potentially derail a decision, passing a vote. It could be that a straw poll on those possible 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
options could help you come to some consensus, but it's also – we could try a few motions if a 1
member of the Commission would like to make a motion to make a recommendation on the 2
project first or the other way around? I think we can try some votes and see what passes. 3
There's some flexibility on how you want to proceed. It looks like Commissioner Templeton 4
might have a thought. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: Yes, thank you. Is it still the position of staff that whether we make 7
these findings or not it will still go forward to Council? 8
9
Jennifer Armer: Correct. We will be bringing this… 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 12
13
Jennifer Armer: …to Council, and in order to vote in favor to recommend approval of the map, 14
you would need to be able to state that you can make the findings. If you can't, then you would 15
be voting to not recommend approval. But either way, we will bring whatever the 16
recommendation is with the details as part of the staff report to Council for their consideration 17
on the project. 18
19
Chair Akin: I believe Commissioner Hechtman has something to contribute here. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Hechtman: So I think one possible form of this motion, without sort of 2
prejudging whether a majority of the Commission will be able to make the findings or not, is to 3
move the staff recommendation to recommend to the Council that they approve the map and 4
also recommend that the Council consider the following matters and then list our concerns. I 5
think if in the motion it's couched as consider, then it doesn't vitiate whichever direction the 6
motion goes to on the map, up or down, but it gives them a road map to some of the issues 7
that we felt we couldn't legislate but maybe they can and maybe staff being able to sit with 8
those items as this moves to Council, they can look at that and give Council some direction on 9
whether they can legislate on any of those things. So that's just a suggestion for the form and 10
the motion. 11
12
Chair Akin: I find that appealing. All right. Then I would like to proceed in that direction. Okay. 13
Do I have a motion from anyone? If not, I will attempt to craft one on the fly. 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: I'm happy to tee it up. What I don't have are the individual 16
recommendations, and so what I'm going to do is I'm going to make the motion subject to the 17
following things that Council consider and then I'm going to be quiet and the commissioners 18
can create a list, add to a list, and if there's any objection to anything on the list, which is hard 19
to imagine because these are the only things we're going to ask Council to consider. So 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
hopefully there are no ideas that they shouldn't consider. And then after that list is culled, then 1
maybe we get a second. 2
3
Jennifer Armer: If I may suggest that you could make a motion to recommend approval, that's 4
your inclination, with consideration of additional matters, have a second, and then as 5
suggestions are made, then the maker and the seconder can accept those additions? 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: So I was hoping to avoid… 8
9
Jennifer Armer: Okay. 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: …having to – as the maker of the motion, I don't want to pass 12
judgment on each one of these things and that's why I was thinking if we just wait for the 13
motion to form basically by group activity before a second, we don't have to go through the 14
friendly amendment process. So if there's a legal reason that won't work, then we shouldn't do 15
it. Otherwise, it seems like the most efficient way to get everything on the table. 16
17
Jennifer Armer: I have gotten confirmation from Mr. Yang that this is acceptable. 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: Great. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Very good. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: All right, so commissioners, are we ready for me to start this or not 4
yet? 5
6
Chair Akin: Commissioner Templeton? 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: Pressing the wrong button. Sorry about that. Thank you, Chair. I'm – 9
have we identified – is 4 and 6 the areas of dispute and does anybody worry about 4 but me? I 10
just want to make sure we're clear on where are the areas that we agree because I think that 11
will help a lot with the motion making. I don't know if we can just do straw polls or something 12
unofficial to understand that in terms of making the motion. It's just a suggestion and I'm open 13
to whatever you guys want to do. 14
15
Chair Akin: Vice Chair? 16
17
Vice Chair Chang: So I appreciated your logic for 4. I can't make 6. Almost – I mean, just – I can't 18
make 6 no matter what. However, mainly because we don't know what – I could make 6 if I 19
knew that there were certain outcomes but we just don't have that data right now. We don't 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
know what's possible, we don't have the information, so I – and that's the main message that I 1
would send to Council, which is I can't make 6 and maybe you can fix it so that you can make 6. 2
Right? But what I – so that's where I stand. With respect to the findings on 4, I appreciated your 3
logic but I haven't quite decided on that one. But what I do want to say is that if we are making 4
a motion with respect to the Vesting Tentative Map, there is a concrete change that I think that 5
we can very reasonably make right now, which is the inclusion of the sidewalks in an easement. 6
It's in some of the diagrams but it's not in the staff packet and it's not – so I'm – I – since it 7
seems to be the applicant's intent to have a public access easement for the sidewalks, it's only 8
on some of the – it's not – it's on the cross sections but it's not elsewhere. And so I would just 9
want to make that explicit as part of our – of the Vesting Tentative Map because that was – I 10
had a discussion with staff in pre-meeting and there was a suggestion that, okay, the applicant 11
has been interested in making these sidewalks and so I want to make it explicit. But that said, I 12
don't know that I can make all the findings anyway, so maybe it's a moot point but I am trying 13
to make it better. 14
15
Chair Akin: Yes. To play devil's advocate for a moment, the easements for the sidewalks on 16
Matadero and Kendall are on the map, even thought they were not called out in the staff 17
report. So... 18
19
Female: [Inaudible 164:33]. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: ...I guess the question I have is whether that was intentional and, if so, why. 2
3
Steven Switzer: To address that, the submitted map is a Cycle 2, so this is a recent submittal 4
and it is currently still under review with City staff, so it was submitted, I believe – I could look 5
up the exact date but – in enough time to be as an attachment to the packet for the printing of 6
this but those – that common period for the map as well as for viewing it in further detail was 7
not completed and is still under review. So some of those items or inconsistencies were not 8
readily available or identified in that staff report. But because of the strict timelines of 9
advancing it forward, it is presented in this form to the Commission. 10
11
Jennifer Armer: [Inaudible 165:30] it would... 12
13
Vice Chair Chang: Then is it staff's position that we don't need to make that addition... 14
15
Jennifer Armer: It would... 16
17
Vice Chair Chang: ...because... 18
19
Jennifer Armer: ...be... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice Chair Chang: ...it's already there? Or... 2
3
Jennifer Armer: It would be fine since it's clearly of interest to include the PTC's 4
recommendation to ensure that those easements cover the sidewalks on all 3 frontages. 5
6
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. 7
8
Chair Akin: All right. Commissioner Hechtman, back to you. And do you want to include that as 9
a provision in the base? 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. Again, logically, you would think it would help us make Finding 7 12
because Finding 7 is the one about easements. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 15
16
Commissioner Hechtman: But it doesn't really work with Finding 7 because what Finding 7 says 17
is there are existing access easements that are going away but it's okay because we're replacing 18
them with these new easements. And here, there are no existing access easements that are 19
going away. They're just adding some new easements, apparently because they think that's the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
right way to design this project, which I think is great. So again, to me, it feels like it falls in what 1
Council should consider reinforcing the submitted plan or securing from the submitted plan the 2
easements shown on Matadero and Kendall, something more like that. 3
4
Chair Akin: So I may have another way around this but I think the issue is the easements 5
applying to Finding 6 rather than 7 because yes, as you noticed, 7 isn't applicable. My question 6
for staff was, legally and functionally, is there any difference for the easements on Matadero 7
and Kendall than from the easement on El Camino? They all appear on the map and, as far I can 8
tell, are all identified in the same way. So if we approve the map, are we not approving all of 9
these easements? 10
11
Steven Switzer: Improvements shown on the map would be within the scope of the approval. 12
13
Chair Akin: Then my fellow commissioners may contradict me on this but it appears to me that 14
all of these easements are present. 15
16
Vice Chair Chang: Where? 17
18
Steven Switzer: If I may, I mean to offer a suggestion here. As one of those items for 19
consideration is to ensure easements are provided, could be a statement that the Commission 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
adds. The improvements are indicated on the map but [inaudible 168:21] necessarily resolving 1
that with either a conditional approval at this time might not be necessary. 2
3
Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman, do you have a follow-up? Oh, sorry. I have your light still 4
on. All right. So my suggestion that all of the easements are already covered seems to have 5
fallen flat, so I take it the approach we'll use is to include that in the recommendations. All 6
right. So we need a base motion, to which we will add recommendations in a separate 7
discussion. 8
9
Commissioner Hechtman: So I will move the staff recommendation that the PTC recommend 10
approval of the Vesting Tentative Map to the City Council based upon findings and subject to 11
conditions of approval in the draft record of land use in Attachment B and that the City Council 12
consider the following matters in its review of this recommendation. 13
14
Chair Akin: Very good. Now we're not looking for a second yet. Now we'll talk about those 15
following matters. Commissioner Templeton. Then Vice Chair Chang. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: I'm going to tell you what I think you are hoping will happen but I 18
will also share where my concerns are in terms of voting. I do not believe I can make the 19
findings right now. But if some things were changed, I think I could make the findings because 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
we would have plans. So I'm not exactly sure how to vote with the way that the motion is 1
structured but I will tell you what my changes are. I think we need a TDM and I think we need 2
to understand that this development will not cause safety or serious public health problems. 3
We've had sufficient exploration of the current proposals independently of the design but just 4
having that many people between these 2 streets is sufficient for us to have concern. So I would 5
like to see a TDM that addresses neighborhood bike, ped, and vehicular safety on Matadero 6
and Kendall, specifically ingress and egress of the property and that it will not cause – that it 7
will be designed such that it does not cause a safety hazard when turning onto El Camino. 8
9
Chair Akin: May I interrupt briefly? You... 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 12
13
Chair Akin: ...said TDM. Do you mean TDM or a transportation study? 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: I mean both. The problem is one is the result of the other, right? I 16
don't think we can have a TDM until we have a transportation study but maybe I'm backwards 17
on that. But I figure what I really want to know is they're going to be able to have a solution 18
that shows that the expected traffic flows will not be dangerous. That would be a TDM, right? 19
Or am I missing something? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: I think that would be a transportation study. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: The study is before and the TDM is after, right? The proposal. 4
5
Chair Akin: Yes. A TDM – the demand management component, I think, is something that 6
comes later. 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. Well, that – okay. Well, the – I'm jumping ahead then. So sure. 9
We can adjust that. That's fine. 10
11
Chair Akin: Shall we take a straw poll on that to see whether that... 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Sure. 14
15
Chair Akin: ...should be included as one of the recommendations? 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Great suggestion, Chair. Thank you. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: That there be a traffic study done to ensure safety, particularly ingress and egress 1
on Matadero and Kendall. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: With this project and known neighboring projects. 4
5
Chair Akin: With this and known neighboring projects. Let's have a straw poll. I'll just move from 6
side to side. Commissioner Templeton? 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. I'm interested in that. 9
10
Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson? 11
12
Commissioner Peterson: I'm going to abstain on this one. 13
14
Chair Akin: Vice Chair Chang? 15
16
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. I'm interested in it. 17
18
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman? 1
2
Commissioner Hechtman: I guess I'd love to see it but I'm not convinced that it's appropriate for 3
us to require on the map as a condition of approval, so that... 4
5
Chair Akin: This... 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: ...was... 8
9
Chair Akin: ...is for a recommendation... 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: Just... 12
13
Chair Akin: ...for Council... 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: ...for... 16
17
Chair Akin: ...to consider. 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: ...them to consider? Oh, then absolutely. Sure. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: All right. And I will add my yes to that as well. So let us add that to our developing 2
motion here. Commissioner Templeton, I believe you had something else? 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: I do but I don't know if it warrants this. It might be enough that we 5
mentioned it. I would really like to connect the bike paths. As Commissioner Ji mentioned, 6
we're going to see more traffic with the underpass all the way down Matadero – or Margarita 7
to Matadero and then to Bol Park. We need to make that a holistic approach but that's not 8
necessarily tied to this project. 9
10
Chair Akin: Right. So what I'm hearing is we should probably not add that to our list of 11
recommendations but simply make sure it's communicated to staff. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: And to Council. 14
15
Chair Akin: Yes, and eventually to Council. Commissioner Peterson, do you have anything you 16
would like to recommend? 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: No. I'm good. I'll pass. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Vice Chair Chang. 1
2
Vice Chair Chang: I would like to recommend that to the extent there are sidewalks in the – 3
included as part of the development, that we make – that Council makes sure – ensures that 4
there are public access easements also for those sidewalks. 5
6
Chair Akin: All right. Let's have a straw poll on that. Commissioner Templeton? 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 175:21]. 9
10
Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson? 11
12
Commissioner Peterson: I'll abstain on that one. 13
14
Chair Akin: Vice Chair? 15
16
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 17
18
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. I'm supportive of the Council considering that. 1
2
Chair Akin: As am I. So let us add that to the list of recommendations as well. Vice Chair, 3
anything else? 4
5
Vice Chair Chang: I don't know how to do this but we came up with a bunch of creative ideas 6
that could help, except that they – so these are things – we're not mandating that the project 7
be redesigned but these are ideas that we had, either changes that the City could make or that 8
the project could make that would help. So I – should we list some of those? Or... 9
10
Chair Akin: Is this the best way to communicate that? 11
12
Jennifer Armer: I guess it depends on the extent of the changes you're talking... 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: I mean... 15
16
Jennifer Armer: ...about. 17
18
Vice Chair Chang: ...there's – we had bike path that goes through the development. We had... 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 176:24]. 1
2
Vice Chair Chang: ...moving the driveways potentially. We had 1-way streets, right? All of those 3
things might make this and all future traffic problems better but I'm not quite sure how to 4
handle that all because it's not – some of them might be for this project. Some of them – these 5
would be done after the project. 6
7
Chair Akin: Right. I think we should focus only on those that are directly related to the project. 8
So that would include changing ingress/egress points but, for example, not rerouting streets. 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: Chair, do you think we can ask staff to share the summary of our 11
suggestions with the Transportation team? And maybe they can run with it for the future in 12
adjacency to this project but not as part of the project? 13
14
Jennifer Armer: So I will be recommending that staff include in our summary of this discussion 15
by PTC items that were discussed and recommended, even those that are beyond the project. 16
So it wouldn't be part of the recommendation on this project. Clearly, it goes beyond any nexus 17
for this because it is farther-reaching but that could be part of the summary of this discussion 18
that's provided to Council. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: So considerations – adjacent considerations in order to make this 1
project more successful I think is really our intention there. We're not trying to say – for some 2
of those conditions of approval, we're trying to say this is a big change for the neighborhood, so 3
I think it would be really nice if you could do that. Thank you. 4
5
Chair Akin: All right. And specifically communicated to Office of Transportation. 6
7
Jennifer Armer: Yes. We can do that. 8
9
Chair Akin: All right. Thank you. So we have the straw poll process. The item that I hear is 10
consider relocating ingress and egress points. Is that sufficient to capture the motion you have 11
in mind? 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Do we want to say to what end? 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: I think so. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 18
19
Vice Chair Chang: So to consider... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: To improve safety. 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: ...to improve safety of bicyclists and pedestrians. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: And reduce congestion. 6
7
Vice Chair Chang: And reduce congestion. 8
9
Chair Akin: All right. So consider relocating ingress and egress points to improve safety for 10
cyclists and pedestrians as well as reducing congestion. 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: Excellent. Thank you. 13
14
Chair Akin: Is that captured? All right. Let's take a straw poll on that. Yes. Commissioner 15
Peterson? 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: Abstain. 18
19
Chair Akin: Vice Chair? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 6
7
Chair Akin: And yes for me as well. Commissioner Ji, do you have – oh. 8
9
Male: [Inaudible 179:36] Vice Chair. 10
11
Chair Akin: Vice Chair, are you done or do you have any other recommendations you want to 12
add? 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: Again, we haven't seen the plans and I've seen the parking lot, so it seems 15
unlikely that it could be done but there was this idea of a bike path through the development, 16
right? Somebody had mentioned that, so I'm just trying to play these... 17
18
Male: [Inaudible 179:56]. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice Chair Chang: ...things back. And it wouldn't be development-specific, so I... 1
2
Chair Akin: Yes. Sounds like a stretch but I see no reason not to offer it for consideration. Where 3
does it exit? Because it can't exit on this property, can it? 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: Well, the congestion points are pretty specifically close to El Camino. 6
And on the diagram that Vice Chair Chang had about Barron Park Elementary, you can see that 7
Kendall does go through past the elementary school towards the Bol Park Bike Path. So I think 8
that if we are able to figure out how to get it a little bit on the – exiting on the interior part of 9
the property, the question – it – we don't have to design it. That's really up to them. But the 10
question is, how do we separate – because the road is really narrow, how do we separate the 11
bike/ped and use the property? We don't know what kind of beautification they may have. 12
They may have other ideas that it's appropriate to put there that we can't even imagine right 13
now because we haven't seen the plans. But we'd like to encourage them to think about it if 14
that's a possibility. I will also say that there's natural space on the north side of Matadero Road, 15
at least I would say maybe a quarter mile, half a mile in, where it could be suitable to have part 16
of the bike path before it goes back into the road. I'm just trying to – the congestions at El 17
Camino, how do we separate the bikes there? Because that's where people have conflict. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: All right. So I could try and make this as flexible as possible and simply say, "Consider 1
a bike path through the property." 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: I mean, we had ideas also from Commissioner Ji, I think, or maybe you, Chair 4
Akin, about planter strip and whether we need the planter strip, so those would all be through 5
the property because it's at the edge of the property but it's through the property. So yes. 6
7
Chair Akin: So it encompasses that as well. 8
9
Vice Chair Chang: I think so. Yes. 10
11
Chair Akin: All right. If that phrasing has been captured, we can take a straw poll. All right? 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Support. 14
15
Commissioner Peterson: Abstain. 16
17
Vice Chair Chang: Support. 18
19
Commissioner Ji: Support. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Hechtman: I need a little more clarification. Are we talking about potentially a 2
bike path that goes in 1 side of the building, under, and then through? Because that would be 3
through the property. 4
5
Chair Akin: We are specifically not narrowing it down to that option. 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: But that is one of the ones that we want the Council to consider, 8
running bikes through their parking? 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: We really... 11
12
Chair Akin: I... 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: ...what – okay. Go ahead. Sorry, Chair. 15
16
Chair Akin: Yes. I'm deliberately trying not to constrain what Council might consider, although I 17
find it very hard to believe that they would consider that one. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: Well, are we talking about, then, as a possibility, using part of the 12-1
foot sidewalk along El Camino for biking or using... 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: I... 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: ...part... 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: ...would... 8
9
Commissioner Hechtman: ...of the [inaudible 183:20]? 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: ...not use El Camino for biking because there's a bike lane. 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 14
15
Commissioner Ji: I'm talking about – for example, on Matadero, right, there's like an 8-foot 16
easement. Maybe potentially creatively using part of that to be a bike lane or something like 17
that. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: So is this related to the Vice Chair's recommendation for the public 1
access easement for the sidewalks on all 3 sides, the possibility that the public access use of 2
some of those sidewalks might be for a bike lane? Is that the idea? I... 3
4
Chair Akin: I don't think that's the idea of this recommendation but that is a possibility. 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: I... 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: So I don't understand where these would go. They're not going to go 11
on the sidewalk. They're not going to go through the building. So I don't know I can support it if 12
I don't know where it could possibly go. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: May I – oh. Go ahead, Commissioner Peterson. 15
16
Chair Akin: Let's do Commissioner Peterson first and then Commissioner Templeton. 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: As an apartment dweller, maybe I can add some expertise on this. If 19
there's 300-and-something people living there, I mean, that's the number of units, right? So 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
there's going to be like 600,000 people here, maybe more. Biking is becoming more popular. It's 1
– there's going to be a bike lane somewhere... 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 4
5
Commissioner Peterson: ...whether they make it or people are just actually exiting the building 6
en masse... 7
8
Chair Akin: [Inaudible 184:50]. 9
10
Commissioner Peterson: ...going to the school, right? 11
12
Chair Akin: As they say, the bike lane of desire. 13
14
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: And I would add, just for your comfort and also encouragement to 17
think about this, we know we have other properties in – being in – being developed. And right 18
now, our city is in a strange situation where we're not – it's not a – like the Forest Plan, right? 19
It's not being developed as a whole. It's being piecemealed. And what I'm encouraging the City 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
to think about or what I hope we are considering thinking is have a vision for this space, right? 1
There's going to be another property developed across the street. Can we also get room for a 2
bike lane in the other direction there at this congestion point, right? Think about how are we 3
going to make that safer. We already have too much congestion, already unsafe. We're hearing 4
that from the members of the neighborhood. So what I am hoping is the City can understand 5
this space – you're always the one to say this – at a macro level, right? And ask for things from 6
each property development that will make this space whole. And I recognize that we're in a 7
tough situation because we don't have an area plan like we've had in other neighborhoods but 8
we should still think about it in that terms. 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: So maybe I have a better understanding now. So I think the language 11
was, "Consider a bike path through the property." Would it be more accurate to say, in line with 12
what you're thinking, "Consider a bike path along the perimeters of the property"? If that 13
[inaudible 186:40]. 14
15
Chair Akin: Or even simply, "On the property." 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. Or through. It doesn't... 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: Well... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: ...it... 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: ...again... 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: We don't... 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: ...through... 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: ...have to design it now. You're trying to design it but... 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: No. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: ...we're not. 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: No. I'm trying to give the Council an intelligible thing to consider. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Ooh. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: If they think that we are suggesting they run bikes through the 1
garage because it says through... 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: ...that's... 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: I... 8
9
Commissioner Hechtman: ...what I think. 10
11
Male: [Inaudible 187:01]. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: All right. Then... 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: So I'm looking to change... 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: They're... 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: ...the... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Peterson: ...going... 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: ...language. 4
5
Commissioner Peterson: ...to have 1,000 bike racks there... 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 8
9
Commissioner Peterson: ...somewhere. I mean, it's going to be somewhere inside the facility 10
anyway. 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: So I'm just trying to clarify it so that they don't... 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 15
16
Commissioner Hechtman: ...think that we're... 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: I think through is an acceptable option. I think adjacent is an 19
acceptable option. I think on is an acceptable option. They reason I do goes back to this site 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
experience that I had that haven't had a chance to share with everybody but we've seen a lot of 1
creative ways to handle this bike path need that sometimes is through and sometimes is 2
adjacent and sometimes is on. I don't feel like I need to design that but I do feel like I would like 3
to encourage preposition of your choice bike path. 4
5
Chair Akin: All right. I can wordsmith it a little farther. "Consider bike paths incorporating parts 6
of the property." 7
8
Commissioner Hechtman: I think that's fine. 9
10
Chair Akin: Went too far, huh? 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: [Inaudible 188:03]. 13
14
Chair Akin: All right. So the version that we have straw polled up to this point used the word 15
through. Are we okay with that or do we need to update that language? 16
17
Commissioner Hechtman: The word through? 18
19
Chair Akin: All right. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. So I don't like the word through. I like the words "incorporating 2
parts of" which... 3
4
Chair Akin: [Inaudible 188:28]... 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: ...I thought... 7
8
Chair Akin: ...rephrase. 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: ...you suggested. I'm supportive of that. 11
12
Chair Akin: All right. Just to review, everyone in acceptance? 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: It's fine. 15
16
Commissioner Peterson: Abstain. 17
18
Vice Chair Chang: Accept. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Ji: Accept. 1
2
Chair Akin: And I will also accept. So that should be sufficient. Vice Chair, do you have anything 3
more to suggest? 4
5
Vice Chair Chang: I don't think so. Thanks. 6
7
Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 8
9
Commissioner Ji: Nothing. 10
11
Chair Akin: All right. Commissioner Hechtman. 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: No. 14
15
Chair Akin: All right. Let's see. If... 16
17
Jennifer Armer: We need a second... 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: Well... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: ...for this one? 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: ...the Chair... 4
5
Jennifer Armer: Oh, okay. 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: ...may have something to add. 8
9
Jennifer Armer: Okay. Sorry. 10
11
Chair Akin: I'm checking to make sure everything that... 12
13
Jennifer Armer: Jumping... 14
15
Chair Akin: ...I have... 16
17
Jennifer Armer: ...ahead. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: ...is covered. I think everything that I have is adequately covered, so now we need a 1
second. Well, that's surprising. I will second. 2
3
Samuel Tavera: All right. Yes. Ready? Yes. 4
5
Chair Akin: Yes. We need a vote. 6
7
Samuel Tavera: Yes. Commissioner Ji? 8
9
Commissioner Ji: No. 10
11
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 14
15
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Peterson? 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: Abstain. 18
19
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Templeton? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: No. 2
3
Samuel Tavera: Vice Chair Chang? 4
5
Vice Chair Chang: No. 6
7
Samuel Tavera: Chair Akin? 8
9
Chair Akin: Yes. 10
11
Samuel Tavera: Motion fails 2-3-1. 12
13
Chair Akin: All right. For folks who would like to speak to their no votes. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. I feel that the primary reason that I did not support this 16
motion was due to the nature of it being rushed and us not having adequate information. It's 17
not that I don't like the project. I'm excited about the project and the opportunities. And I know 18
that our no vote here will not impede you moving forward. That said, I wish that the Council will 19
consider safety and looking for ways for us to not have to rush the process such that we are 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
voting on proposals that are not ready. I think that puts the developer at a very serious 1
disadvantage and I'm sorry about that. But we do have our responsibilities here on this dais, 2
which is to consider the safety of the development and the suitability of the development. And 3
if we're unable to consider any aspects of the development, then we are unable to provide a 4
decision. That is my perspective. I recognize not every commissioner feels the same way. Thank 5
you. 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: Point of order to the Chair. Chair, I think we only ask for no votes to 8
speak to their votes when a motion passes despite their no vote. Here, the no votes 9
predominated... 10
11
Chair Akin: [Inaudible 191:52]. 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: ...and the motion failed, so we're not done. We need a motion with 14
some direction and so I think Commissioner Templeton's comments may be sort of the basis for 15
her to make a motion to not recommend approval to the Council. But I think that's our next 16
step. 17
18
Chair Akin: In fact, I was going to ask staff about that after we had reviewed our rationales. But 19
since it's been brought up, let's confirm. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: That is correct. So there was a motion to recommend approval and that failed. 2
We still do need a recommendation on action here – a vote on an action here tonight. So based 3
on that vote, then that would likely be a recommendation for denial of the map with specific 4
details about which findings cannot be – that are the basis of that denial. 5
6
Chair Akin: And I would add that the recommendations for consideration be included as well. 7
8
Jennifer Armer: And – yes. We will be working to provide a summary of this discussion and the 9
concerns brought up here. 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: Also, Chair, just want to say I thought you had mentioned that we 12
would be speaking to our no votes and that's why I did it, Commissioner Hechtman, because I 13
thought that's what was asked for. Thank you for clarifying. 14
15
Chair Akin: Yes. I am at fault here, not you. I presume with regard to the point of order that we 16
will not be speaking to other no votes. Correct? There's [inaudible 193:41]. 17
18
Vice Chair Chang: I can make a motion for the other one if we want to. All right. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: All right. 1
2
Vice Chair Chang: So I'm going to make a motion that we do not recommend this Vesting 3
Tentative Map to Council for approval because we cannot make Finding Number 6, that the 4
design of the subdivision or type of improvements is likely to cause – sorry. We can't make this 5
reverse – is this a reverse finding thing? Well, yes. 6
7
Jennifer Armer: [Inaudible 194:13]... 8
9
Vice Chair Chang: We can't find Finding Number 6. 10
11
Jennifer Armer: ...affirmative or negative, right? That you... 12
13
Vice Chair Chang: Right. So the problem is that we believe that this – the design of this 14
subdivision or type of improvements is likely to cause serious public health problems, mainly 15
the conflict with bicyclists and pedestrians along the safe routes to school for both – for all of 16
elementary, middle, and high school. 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: Vice Chair, do you want to say the current [incomplete 194:47] 19
design? Or is that necessary? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice Chair Chang: I don't even know. I – the – we're not supposed to be looking at a design. So... 2
3
Chair Akin: Are we incorporating our recommendations [inaudible 195:03]? 4
5
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. So that's the other addition I want to make but I also still – recognizing 6
that this is a builder's remedy project, would like to include all the recommendations that we 7
made in the last motion. 8
9
Chair Akin: All right. Is that clear to everyone or do we need to restate? Clear enough? We need 10
a second. 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: I'll second. 13
14
Chair Akin: Mr. Tavera, would you call the vote? 15
16
Samuel Tavera: Yes. Commissioner Peterson? 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: Abstain. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Ji? 1
2
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 3
4
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: No. 7
8
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Templeton? 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 11
12
Samuel Tavera: Vice Chair Chang? 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 15
16
Samuel Tavera: Chair Akin? 17
18
Chair Akin: I don't know. I will say no and speak to my no vote later. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Samuel Tavera: Okay. Motion carries 3-2-1. 1
2
Chair Akin: All right. For the 2 of us who voted no, Commissioner Hechtman? 3
4
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. Thank you. Just very briefly. I believe that the Finding 6 properly 5
interpreted has to be made here because the things that are being considered to not be able to 6
make the finding are not within the parameter of the appropriate considerations for Finding 6. 7
But having said that, as indicated by my support of the last motion, I am supportive of the 8
additional items for the Council's consideration, despite my no vote here. 9
10
Chair Akin: While I have significant sympathy for the objections to Finding Number 6, I find that 11
we're in an odd position of having to take a vote on shifting sand... 12
13
Female: [Inaudible 197:21]. 14
15
Chair Akin: ...because we have absolutely no idea what is to come. And while looking at what 16
we have before us today, I have strong doubts that I could make the negative of Finding 6. 17
However, I believe it is fixable and therefore, I was hoping to forward that to Council to fix it. So 18
I find myself with sympathy for both interpretations here. All right. Is this item complete? A 19
much needed break for everyone, 15 minutes. We'll be back here at 9:35. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
3. PUBLIC HEARING / QUASI-JUDICIAL. 929 Laurel Glen Drive [25PLN-00005]: 2
Recommendation to the City Council on a Major Site and Design Application for the 3
Construction of a New 6,581-Square-Foot Single-Family Residence and Associated 4
Site Improvements on a Vacant 4.23-Acre Site. CEQA Status: Exempt Per CEQA 5
Guidelines Section 15303. Zoning District: Open Space (OS). 6
7
Chair Akin: Welcome back, everyone. Thank you for your patience in getting to the late start for 8
this item. We're now on Item Number 3, a quasi-judicial recommendation on a major site and 9
design application for 929 Laurel Glen Drive. Are there any disclosures, commissioners? I did 10
visit the site. 11
12
Commissioner Ji: I also visited the site and saw some nice deer over there. 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: Me three. I visited the site. 15
16
Chair Akin: All right. Sounds like nothing else of more substance. So may we have the staff 17
presentation? 18
19
Associate Planner Kristina Dobkevicius: Good evening, commissioners. My name is Kristina 20
Dobkevicius. I am the associate planner with the City of Palo Alto and I'm here today to present 21
this major site and design review project. 22
23
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
This item tonight is a major site and design review for the property at 929 Lauren Glen Drive. 1
It's currently a vacant 4.23-acre site located at the end of cul-de-sac within the Foothills Open 2
Space neighborhood. The property is zoned as Open Space (OS) district. The site is surrounded 3
primarily by Open Space and Public Facility zoning. Arastradero Creek and the associated trail 4
both are located approximately 500 feet or more off the proposed development area. The 5
parcel is currently vacant and contains mature vegetation, including native oak trees. The 6
proposal before you would allow development of 1 single-family residence, which is consistent 7
with the Open Space designation. 8
9
A little bit about the project. So right now, it's a vacant site that includes removal of 15 native 10
oak trees, of which 14 are protected under our Tree Ordinance Title Number 18 – Number 8. 11
Excuse me. Based on the City's tree replacement standards, 60 replacement native oak trees 12
are required. The applicant proposes a combination of on-site planting and also in-lieu fees. On-13
site planting is constrained due to the property's location within the High Fire Severity Zone and 14
also the presence of sensitive habitat areas, including woodrat middens and scrub vegetation 15
communities. Staff supports this approach and the City's consulting biologist has reviewed 16
these constraints. We also have them today present in case you have any questions. 17
18
The proposed development consists of a new 2-story single-family residence, approximately 19
5,802 square feet in size with an attached 779-square-foot, 3-car garage and a total combined 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
area of 6,581 square feet. The access is provided by a 16-foot-wide permeable turfstone 1
driveway, which is designed to reduce impervious surface areas. Three covered garage spaces 2
are provided, along with additional tandem parking, in compliance with zoning requirements. 3
The residence is clustered on the front portion of the site to minimize grading and disturbance 4
to the existing conditions, which is consistent with open space review criteria. The proposed 5
residence is oriented parallel to Laurel Glen Drive and is set back approximately 74 feet from 6
the front property line, just outside of an existing 30-foot-wide sewer easement. 7
8
This slide shows first and second floor plans as well as some elevations. For the massing, it 9
follows the natural topography of the site and also reduces the need for extensive grading. The 10
roof forms are articulated to break up the overall scale and mass of the structure. The setting of 11
the structure avoids ridgelines and maintains separation from sensitive vegetation areas. 12
13
For the building materials and design, we do have some sample materials that were provided 14
by the applicant. And just to briefly touch, we can see the renderings presented. And the 15
architectural design, you can see, is contemporary, simple, articulated roof forms. Exterior 16
materials include wood siding, smooth stucco, and asphalt roof shingles. The proposed color 17
palette consists of earth-toned, muted finishes with low reflectivity. Also, exterior lighting, you 18
can see it on the rendering. On the second floor, there's some low-intensity, downward-19
shielded lights provided on this rendering and the project. Sorry about that. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice Chair Chang: Sorry. Could you just go back to the last slide for a second? 2
3
Kristina Dobkevicius: Yes. Sure. Sorry. 4
5
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. Thanks. 6
7
Kristina Dobkevicius: Yes. The next slide is the key considerations for the project. In reviewing 8
the project, staff evaluated consistency with Open Space review criteria as well as Open Space 9
and Controlled Development designation. The proposed development meets the allowable 10
density of 1 dwelling unit on a 4.23-acre parcel, which is consistent with the Comprehensive 11
Plan's designation and intent to preserve open space and allow limited development as well. 12
The project is clustered to minimize environmental impact closer to existing residential 13
developments on both sides. It's consistent with the Comprehensive Plan, zoning standards, 14
and applicable code requirements. There are some final conditions from waste, gas, water, and 15
electric utilities that are – we're waiting for and these will be incorporated into the final record 16
of land use action that's presented to the Council. 17
18
Regarding the environmental review, the project has been evaluated in accordance with CEQA 19
and qualifies for a Class 3 Categorical Exemption. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
So we're here tonight to ask Planning and Transportation Commission to recommend approval 2
of this project to go to City Council based on analysis presented in the staff report. And thank 3
you for your time and I'm happy to answer any questions. 4
5
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioners, any clarifying questions? Vice Chair Chang. Then 6
Commissioner Ji. Then Commissioner Hechtman. 7
8
Vice Chair Chang: Quick question process-wise. So if this goes to Council, it would be on 9
Council's consent... 10
11
Kristina Dobkevicius: Consent. 12
13
Vice Chair Chang: ...calendar? 14
15
Kristina Dobkevicius: Correct. 16
17
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. Thanks. And then for the trees and the replanting plan, we don't – do 18
we – it – the report said 28 trees will be planted on site but then the landscaping plans showed 19
many more than that. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Kristina Dobkevicius: Correct. 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. So... 4
5
Kristina Dobkevicius: So this is something that was not addressed at the latest resubmittal. And 6
we have the Arborist Report, which is part of the document file, Attachment B, which includes 7
the correct number of replacement trees. Oh, sorry. It's Attachment D. Applicant's project 8
description has the updated Arborist Report and required 60 replacement trees that are shown 9
on this slide as well. But based on the location of the sensitive habitats, based on the Biology 10
Report, we're probably going to ask them to do lesser amount – to plant lesser amount of the 11
trees, avoid those sensitive areas, and pay in-lieu fees. 12
13
Vice Chair Chang: So it's still TBD is what you're saying? 14
15
Kristina Dobkevicius: It's – that's what we're going to ask for, to plant as much as they can 16
outside of those sensitive areas and pay the in-lieu fees for the remainder of the trees. 17
18
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 1
2
Commissioner Ji: I had a really random question. Can you go to Slide 1, please? 3
4
Kristina Dobkevicius: Sure. This one? 5
6
Commissioner Ji: No. Sorry. The next – yes. This one. This one labeled "1". What am I looking at 7
that's the little blue line that's near the yellow polygon? 8
9
Kristina Dobkevicius: Yes. It was in the Biologist Report. This was identified as a stream, an 10
unidentified stream. 11
12
Commissioner Ji: Okay. So the context, I think, is that – there is some description somewhere in 13
the staff report that says that you're X feet away from a creek or a stream or something. Are we 14
using this little unidentified stream for that calculation or are we using the actual creek? 15
16
Kristina Dobkevicius: Yes. For the 500-foot distance, we're looking at the wider blue, which is 17
the actual creek, Arastradero Creek, not that thinner, darker blue, which is an unidentified 18
water stream. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Ji: Okay. I guess – I don't know if this is a time – actually, I'll hold off on this 1
question until later. Thank you. 2
3
Kristina Dobkevicius: Thank you. 4
5
Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman? 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: The Vice Chair asked my question. 8
9
Chair Akin: Very good. Yes. I think my clarifying questions have also been answered. Anyone 10
else? Commissioner Templeton? 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. Just because I anticipate more, when asked to clarify what the 13
darker blue line – thinner line represents, is it a channel? If – it's dangerous territory to call it a 14
stream or a creek, so we're just trying to understand what it is because we're going to spend 15
hours talking about it. 16
17
Kristina Dobkevicius: Yes. It's definitely not a creek and we do have Abe, our consultant from 18
Rincon, who may be able to elaborate a little bit more on the stream. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Rincon Environmental Consultant Abe Leider: Did you want me to do that? 1
2
Kristina Dobkevicius: Yes, please. 3
4
Abe Leider: Hi. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and commissioners and thanks for that 5
question. Though I'll be honest, I'm not the project biologist, who isn't here tonight, but that is 6
what we identified in the biological analysis as an unnamed drainage that just [inaudible 7
231:20]... 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 10
11
Abe Leider: ...a tiny little piece of the – of a portion of the site. So it wouldn't be affected at all 12
by the project. It doesn't have a name. All the characteristics of that creek I don't know but it is 13
a drainage for sure. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Unknown drainage, not... 16
17
Abe Leider: [Inaudible 231:37]. 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: ...a stream. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Abe Leider: Yes. Unnamed... 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: So... 4
5
Abe Leider: ...drainage. Right. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: I appreciate that clarification, Mr. Leider, and I would encourage 8
staff to be consistent about usage. Thank you. 9
10
Chair Akin: Yes. I guess I'll follow up on that. Given the way it's drawn, is it intermittent? 11
12
Jennifer Armer: Yes. 13
14
Chair Akin: Okay. Any further clarifying questions? All right, then. Commissioner Ji. 15
16
Commissioner Ji: Okay. Just to – so that we don't have to come back to this. So as written in our 17
last version of the Streamside Ordinance, would we consider this unidentified drainage as 18
relevant for that? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: I think that will be part of your discussion at the next hearing on that draft 1
ordinance. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Okay. I'll – I guess I will leave it at that for now. 4
5
Chair Akin: Seeing no other lights, is the applicant here and do they have a presentation? 6
7
Kristina Dobkevicius: The – we have the applicant online. They are from San Diego. But we also 8
have the homeowner, Ken, here in case you have any questions for the homeowner as well. 9
10
Chair Akin: Very good. Thank you for attending. So there's no formal presentation or we have 11
one coming up from San Diego? 12
13
Kristina Dobkevicius: Let me stop sharing and I will ask Zoltan or Daniel to give a presentation, 14
please. 15
16
Chair Akin: Thank you. 17
18
Architect Daniel Hruby: Hello. Can you hear me? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Yes, we can. 1
2
Daniel Hruby: Okay. My name's Dan Hruby. Thank you for listening to our presentation. Most of 3
it was already provided. We tried to include as many images of what we're proposing. Our site 4
was very challenging for a number of reasons. We have a very wide easement that separates us 5
from the street and we have to negotiate the terrain with a driveway that meets the City's 6
maximum slope requirements. And so we had to find the best position to come into the 7
property, navigate through the trees to minimize tree removal, and get to our building within 8
150 feet of driveway length so that we didn't need to put in a big fire truck turnaround, which 9
would've been triggered. And we had to stay out of the easement for the sewer line that runs 10
across the front of the property. The density of all the trees on the site provided another 11
challenge for us and we tried to locate the building in the most open part of the site where 12
there was fewer trees. And we can't move to the left without taking out more trees and we 13
can't move to the right without doing the same. And essentially, this is the best position that 14
we could put the building and minimize the impact on the landscape. Beyond that, we tried to 15
seat the house down as low as we could. We don't have very extensive ceiling heights. We're 9-16
foot-6, I think, on the second floor [inaudible 236:02] and 9 foot on the lower floor. So not 17
really trying to push the height up. We're under the height limit, considering the slope of the 18
site. And yes, that's about it for what we had to overcome to get to this solution. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Thank you, Mr. Hruby. Commissioners, do we have any questions for the applicant? 1
I have Commissioner Hechtman and Vice Chair Chang. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. Yes. I'm just curious because it's not in the staff report. It 4
sounds like while 60 trees would be required to be planted on site to replace the 14 –I think 5
maybe it's 15 but 14 of them are natives, staff's feeling is that – or maybe it's the arborist - 6
there's not really a good place for that many trees on this site without invading some sensitive 7
areas, so staff's concept is you'll plant some number less than 60 on site which, as I understand 8
it now, has not yet been determined, but then the balance, you would pay an in-lieu fee and I 9
wanted to know if the applicants were comfortable with that approach or if they were insistent 10
that they want 60 more trees on their property. 11
12
Daniel Hruby: I think we're comfortable with that. We might be able to actually find some other 13
locations to provide a little more screening to the front of the property. And so we're open to 14
continue trying to get as many trees replaced but the in-lieu fee is our back-up option. 15
16
Vice Chair Chang: What are you considering the front of the property? The street side? 17
18
Daniel Hruby: Yes. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. 1
2
Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman, do you have more? 3
4
Commissioner Hechtman: I guess I could tag on that question because I was trying to figure out, 5
on Packet Page 37, whether the front yard is 33.29 feet or 74, so maybe – is it... 6
7
Daniel Hruby: Should be 74. 8
9
Commissioner Hechtman: Packet Page 37. Yes. So staff, if you could just pull up a diagram, any 10
diagram of the house where you can orient us to that because I'm seeing on Table 1A, the front 11
yard proposed is 33.29 and it's the interior side yard that's 73.59. It's just not clear to me what 12
the front yard is. 13
14
Kristina Dobkevicius: Sure. So the front is – and let me maybe share the site plan with you. Let 15
me just get to it really quickly. And in that table, Commissioner, you're referring to... 16
17
Male: [Inaudible 239:50]. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Kristina Dobkevicius: ...it's the Zoning Comparison Table. So for the required front setback, it's 1
30 feet. But they also have an easement, which is a sewer easement, so we're looking at 30 feet 2
and then the sewer easement. And the proposed – yes. I see. I see where you see a 33. Yes. So 3
this is actually incorrect. It should be 74. So yes. This isn't correct. Sorry. We have to fix it. 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: So to the applicant, does that comport with your – I mean, you drew 6
the plan. Is your front yard 74-foot deep, roughly? 7
8
Daniel Hruby: Yes. 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. And some part of that 74 feet is an easement you've 11
got to avoid? 12
13
Daniel Hruby: Yes. 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 16
17
Kristina Dobkevicius: Would you like me to share the site plan, so... 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Kristina Dobkevicius: ...we're... 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: That'd be great. 4
5
Kristina Dobkevicius: Sure. So here is the front property along the Laurel Glen Drive. We do 6
have a required 30-foot setback, which is shown in this fainter dashed line. And then we also 7
have a sewer easement. Let me zoom into here. 8
9
Daniel Hruby: It's over on the left. 10
11
Kristina Dobkevicius: It's over here. 12
13
Daniel Hruby: Thirty-foot public sewer easement. 14
15
Kristina Dobkevicius: Front setback and sewer easement. And so that 33.29 setback comes from 16
here, which is measured from the corner of intersecting interior property lines, which is not 17
accurate. The proposed front setback should be measured from the property line, which is 18
here. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Daniel Hruby: I – it is. There's a dimension right going through the S in the walkway there. Right 1
in that... 2
3
Kristina Dobkevicius: Oh. 4
5
Daniel Hruby: ...center, there's that 74... 6
7
Kristina Dobkevicius: Yes. 8
9
Daniel Hruby: ...foot 0.28 or it looks like. 10
11
Kristina Dobkevicius: [Inaudible 242:13] one here? 12
13
Daniel Hruby: Yes. 14
15
Kristina Dobkevicius: So the one in the zoning comparison table was this measurement, which is 16
a shorter and it's not representing the accurate furthest 74-foot setback from the property line, 17
including the easement. 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. So that's something that you can fix... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Kristina Dobkevicius: Yes. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: ...on the way to Council. 4
5
Kristina Dobkevicius: Definitely. Thank... 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 8
9
Kristina Dobkevicius: ...you for noting that. Appreciate that. 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: Thanks. Yes. Thank you. 12
13
Chair Akin: Vice Chair Chang? 14
15
Vice Chair Chang: So when – did the biologist take a look at any Bird Hazard Installations? Was 16
that included in part of the study or is it not part of what's typically included in a study? 17
18
Kristina Dobkevicius: Yes. They looked at the bird nesting season. There was a section. But not – 19
yes. Maybe I will let... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: I'll jump in. They're looking at the existing site... 2
3
Kristina Dobkevicius: Yes. 4
5
Jennifer Armer: ...not at the proposed project, more than the footprint of it. 6
7
Vice Chair Chang: Thank you. I just wanted to make sure. And then I had 1 more question. Oh. A 8
question for the applicant about interior lighting. Because I believe in the presentation, there 9
was a slide that mentioned that lighting was angled down to avoid light spillage. Is that correct? 10
But that was referring to exterior lighting. Is that correct? Okay. 11
12
Kristina Dobkevicius: That is correct. 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: It'd be great – maybe the plans haven't gotten this far but I'm wondering, Mr. 15
Hruby, if you could speak to how interior lighting will be handled with respect to minimizing or 16
thinking about how much light would spill outside just through windows at night. 17
18
Daniel Hruby: Well, the lighting will be done in a traditional way, probably recessed can lights, 19
which aim downward. There's not really – I don't believe there's a guideline to not have lighting 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
in your house to avoid what it might look like from outside. But there's really nobody below us 1
and from the street, with the screening we're intending to have with landscaping as it grows in, 2
that should be minimized. Most of the larger windows are on the rear of the house, so that also 3
would minimize what people might experience more commonly from the street. There's only 2 4
other houses at the end of this street, so there's not really – we're at the end of a cul-de-sac 5
and there's 2 other properties that would be passing us. So I don't think there'll be much impact 6
from interior lighting on anybody. 7
8
Vice Chair Chang: So my question was mainly around – we've just heard a Dark Skies Ordinance 9
that our City passed, which specifically applied to outside lighting. But because this is in the 10
open space, I'm less concerned about affecting other people because there's not that many, to 11
your point, but just given that this is an open space – because of the environment, so worried 12
about light spillage into the environment affecting the environment. And so I – are there going 13
to be window coverings? 14
15
Daniel Hruby: Yes. There'll be blinds and – motorized blinds, most likely. And the exterior 16
lighting will be shielded and minimal as necessary for circulation off the decks and the rear 17
patio... 18
19
Vice Chair Chang: Sure. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Daniel Hruby: ...walkways. But yes. We don't – we never intended to make this a brightly-lit 2
project. We understand the area we're in and we're meeting the guidelines that are set for the 3
exterior lighting. But... 4
5
Female: Yes. 6
7
Daniel Hruby: ...to my knowledge, there's been nothing that we've had to design for in terms of 8
how interior lighting affects the exterior. 9
10
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. Okay. Thank you. Just wanted to ask and clarify. 11
12
Daniel Hruby: Yes. 13
14
Chair Akin: Commissioners, any other clarifying questions for Mr. Hruby? No? Then we are 15
ready to move on to public comment. Mr. Tavera, do we have any requests to speak? 16
17
Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, I see no raised hands on Zoom and I have received no public 18
comment cards for this item. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Thank you. Then we can move on to open discussion with the Commission. Vice 1
Chair Chang. Then Commissioner Peterson. 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. So thank you so much for doing such a good job in terms of trying to 4
minimize the tree removal and situating this is in a place that minimizes the environmental 5
impact. I did have a couple of concerns. So I'm looking – we have a little bit of a checklist that 6
we go through. So I had a – the – probably the most salient concern for me is all the glass 7
railings as well as some of the larger windows. So we do not have a Bird-Friendly Design 8
Ordinance currently on the books but the Commission has been hearing – the Commission 9
actually forwarded a version of the ordinance to Council in which we try to prevent situations 10
where birds can see through to the other side as well as particularly large windows or large 11
areas of glazing – reflective surfaces, more accurately. And so I wondered if that was anything 12
that you considered. And if not, I'm hoping that the applicant would – that we can mitigate 13
those. So that's my biggest concern. 14
15
The second concern I had was looking at – the coconut color of the stucco is pretty white, and 16
so from far away – again, it depends on how accurate the renderings are. I'm wondering if we 17
could make it blend into everything a little bit more, particularly also because there's a 18
neighbor who was concerned about being able to see this home. And so to the extent that 19
more of those replacement trees could be planted between the house and the street, that 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
might be helpful. But I also understand that you can't really move the house further back from 1
the street because of the topography where the house is on a hill and it would cause some fire 2
truck access problems. So those were my primary concerns. There's one more condition of 3
approval that I would be interested in placing. We do have a Dark Skies Ordinance that our City 4
Council just approved. It sounds like – that this – that the applicant already plans to comply 5
with those but I think it would be wise for us to make that a condition of approval as well, just 6
to add it to the list. Those are my thoughts. 7
8
Chair Akin: Thank you, Vice Chair. Commissioner Peterson. 9
10
Commissioner Peterson: I'm favorable to the dark sky and the bird-friendly glazing and just 11
wanted to comment that I also felt the plan that's been presented to us looks thoughtful. And 12
while it does remove some legacy trees, of course to build a house takes some trees. So I just 13
want to say I'm favorable of the project and I appreciate the work you've done. Thank you. 14
15
Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner Ji. 16
17
Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. And I would like to echo the sentiments of Commissioner 18
Peterson. I think this might be the first Zoning Comparison Table where there isn't any 19
exemptions being asked for that I have seen in a very long time, so very excited about that. One 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
question I had for staff, and this may feel a little bit like déjà vu, on Packet Page 34, there is a 1
mention of a qualified biologist, which if you recall previously, we had a whole discussion 2
about. I didn't find this defined anywhere, so I was curious if this is – I guess, how are we 3
defining this here? 4
5
Kristina Dobkevicius: Sure. And this was taken from the consultant's CEQA report, so we – since 6
we have consultants and we have a qualified biologist on board, we have funds to ask them to 7
be part of the project if needed to identify those sensitive areas. 8
9
Jennifer Armer: But again, that was reviewing the site for biologically sensitive areas. It was not 10
reviewing the building. Looking at the building design for bird hazards is the distinction of what 11
we'd been discussing previously. 12
13
Commissioner Ji: All right. Thank you. That's all for me. 14
15
Chair Akin: Commissioners, anything else? Commissioner Hechtman? 16
17
Commissioner Hechtman: Do we have an adopted Dark Skies Ordinance? 18
19
Jennifer Armer: Yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. And is there any reason that this project would be exempted 2
from that? 3
4
Jennifer Armer: I'm going to defer to Mr. Yang on that. Because the project has been 5
determined to be complete, there's – I want to confirm whether this would apply or not. 6
7
Albert Yang: Yes. So the Dark Sky Ordinance will apply to this project, certainly. It's going to be 8
sort of a timing question on whether the Bird-Friendly Glass Ordinance would apply, which one 9
goes to the Council first and has the second reading occurred and the 30-day referendum 10
period passed. So that's how those 2 ordinances stand. 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. I think the rule is whatever laws are in effect on the date of 13
approval, those are the laws applicable. And so Dark Sky is already in place, so that clearly 14
applies. And then, as Mr. Yang said, it's just a timing issue. And so I'm comfortable with that. 15
We're not architects and so I tried not to try to look at this architecturally. I think it's a lovely 16
home. I appreciate the sensitivity that was shown in trying to design it to have a lot of natural 17
screening while avoiding tree removal to the extent you could and accounting for an extensive 18
clear space around the house as the Fire Department seems to like. So I think those were all 19
good things. I did notice just one nit on Packet Page 46 for staff to look at. In the term of 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
approval, the first line says it's valid for 2 years but the last line talks about an extension prior to 1
the 1-year expiration. So it's either both are supposed to be 2, which is what I suspect, or both 2
should be 1. 3
4
Jennifer Armer: We can clean that up. 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. Okay. So I'm supportive here of the staff recommendation and 7
excited to have a lovely home coming to that area. 8
9
Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner. Seeing no other lights, I'll make my small number of 10
comments. I'm comfortable with the siding and the architectural approach. I enjoyed seeing the 11
drainage and seismic engineering documents, the most complete I've seen since I've been on 12
the Commission. And I appreciate the clarification on what's happening with the trees, since the 13
confusion there had concerned me. The glass guardrail is sort of the epitome of bird hazards. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 256:55]. 16
17
Chair Akin: And some of the windows that are not under the overhang are large enough that 18
maybe they may be issues as well. So I'm curious as to whether the applicant is receptive to the 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
idea that those things could be mitigated, regardless of whether we reach the point that the 1
Bird-Friendly Design Ordinance applies. 2
3
Daniel Hruby: I certainly would be. I would defer to the owner, Ken, who's there, who might be 4
able to express his desires on this. 5
6
Kenneth Ngai: Hi. I'm Ken. I think in terms of the windows, we can have the windows that is not 7
transparent when we have interior lighting on because that is a design that could – that we 8
could select so that there's no light spillage from the interior of the house. So that would 9
improve the dark sky conditions. And in terms of exterior lighting, we – I'm an engineer, so I 10
know about the dark sky. And what we usually do is we would have full cut-off light fixtures, so 11
the light is only projected downwards, not sideways or up, no up light whatsoever. So that's 12
how we would approach it. So we would take that into consideration in our final design and 13
selection of materials and the technology part of it to improve the – to enhance the protection 14
of the environment. 15
16
Chair Akin: Thank you. I'm glad you're willing to consider this. 17
18
Kenneth Ngai: Sure. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: It may be, Ms. Dobkevicius, that we could provide additional information to them 1
about what the bird hazard mitigation measures might be so they could consider if they're 2
interested in implementing any of those. 3
4
Kristina Dobkevicius: Sure. Definitely. We can do that. Thank you. 5
6
Chair Akin: All right. Mr. Yang. 7
8
Albert Yang: Thank you, Chair. I just have to correct my statement earlier about the Dark Sky 9
Ordinance. We actually included a specific clause in that ordinance saying that it wouldn't apply 10
to projects that were complete – deemed complete on the date that it became effective, so the 11
Dark Skies Ordinance does not automatically apply to this project. 12
13
Chair Akin: Okay. So if we were interested in a condition of approval, then those 2 items might 14
be worth considering. But given that the applicant is receptive, I don't know whether that's 15
sufficient. We can discuss that. All right. I believe that's all I have on my list. Commissioner 16
Templeton. 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, Chair. My question is for staff. So you said this went 19
already to the ARB? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Female: [Inaudible 261:03]. 2
3
Kristina Dobkevicius: This is not going... 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: Oh. 6
7
Kristina Dobkevicius: ...to ARB. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: It's not – this one did not go. 10
11
Kristina Dobkevicius: No. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. So did anybody from staff speak with the applicant about 14
surrounding a house in the hills with glass and a glass railing? 15
16
Jennifer Armer: I don't know if that was part of conversations. Clearly, it's a valuable thing and 17
it will be integrated once we've got an ordinance. This is something that we've been working on 18
and didn't know where the ordinance would be. I think we've got a much clearer sense of what 19
the requirements will be for the Bird-Friendly Ordinance at this point given your 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
recommendation in December. But when this project was going through its reviews, that was 1
still an unknown. So I don't know if it was specifically mentioned. It may not have been given 2
the fact that it wasn't an adopted ordinance. 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. All of us looked at this picture and we go, "Oh, dear. Why didn't 5
that happen?" And I think it's pretty unfair to the applicant. Whether it's already in the 6
ordinance or not, staff should anticipate that that's a question we're always going to ask. It's 7
pretty consistent for, I would say, several years now. And I would like to encourage you guys to 8
think about it because that would help shape our conversation on items that aren't retreading 9
material. That said, I now shift over to the applicant. Have you – had you had any opportunity 10
to discuss alternatives with the client about surrounding the house with glass railings? Were 11
there any other options that were considered? 12
13
Daniel Hruby: Yes. We offered the common options: cable railing, metal dowels or rods in the 14
railing. But they have this nice view and they wanted the unobstructed view as much as 15
possible and so glass was chosen. I don't think it means that it can't be considered. Again, that 16
would be something Ken could maybe clarify, whether he's open to modifying that. 17
18
Kenneth Ngai: Yes. I think that cable or railing would be fine. That's one other consideration, 19
one other option for us, if that's acceptable to the [inaudible 264:05]. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. Thank you, sir. I really do appreciate you being here to discuss 2
this with us. 3
4
Kenneth Ngai: Yes. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: I would say we have the best interest in mind, you will find. I have 7
worked in buildings up on top of the hill that have large glass railings like that and it was 8
constant bombardment by birds and it made it unpleasant for me to enjoy my deck or patio 9
that I was on. So I do hope you consider it. 10
11
Kenneth Ngai: Sure. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: And thank you very much for being open to that. I also see Mr. 14
Eordogh has his hand up. 15
16
Architect Zoltan Eordogh: Yes. I'm Zoltan and I'm working with Dan on this project at SPACIAL. 17
And I just have a question. This Bird-Friendly Glazing Ordinance, when did this become... 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: It has not. [Inaudible 265:06]. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Zoltan Eordogh: So are... 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: We recommended... 4
5
Zoltan Eordogh: ...we required... 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: ...it but it has not moved on through Council yet. 8
9
Zoltan Eordogh: Okay. So technically, as of today, this is still not a requirement, just a 10
recommendation. 11
12
Jennifer Armer: It's – in terms of an adopted ordinance, it is not a requirement. However, with 13
this discretionary review, if the Planning and Transportation Commission would like to 14
recommend approval with this as a condition of approval, that could be included. We would – 15
given that the ordinance has not been adopted, we'd recommend that that condition of 16
approval be crafted to be specific as to where you'd like it to apply. 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: Right. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: That an alternative material or bird-friendly treatment be applied to that railing 1
along the edge, I believe is where you're most interested. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. That's where I'm going. And I – with all apologies to the 4
designers and the client, this is just an area we've learned that is problematic in that location 5
and we really want to encourage any developers to be sensitive to that. I think it will be more 6
enjoyable for the homeowner as well. So with that, I would suggest we add to whatever motion 7
we're crafting here. I personally would rather not have the glass at all. Primarily, just for your 8
information, what we learned in December, it's hard to get – very difficult to get the bird-safe 9
glass for residential properties. And it's much more likely that your cable design will be easier to 10
do and maintain and you'll have as good a view. So that would be my preference but I don't 11
know to what extent we want to offer materials or we want to just say, "Do something bird-12
safe design and you figure it out." 13
14
Chair Akin: Vice Chair Chang. 15
16
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. I really wish that our team – the applicant team here would've been 17
given a little bit more of a heads-up about what was coming. So essentially, I think the 18
framework of – again, what we've been looking at, particularly in open space, is looking at large 19
panes of reflective surface – large reflective surfaces, so anything greater than 24 square feet 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
that's uninterrupted, as well as things where birds can see through to open – 2 panels of glass 1
where you can see through all of that, that's considered a bird hazard design and they can't tell. 2
Either – so it's either reflective surfaces where they think – it's the sky or trees reflected, so 3
they fly right into it or they can see through it. And so – yes. I'm sorry it comes at this late time 4
but, to Commissioner Templeton's point, it will hopefully increase your enjoyment of the home 5
if those concerns are addressed. 6
7
So I went through the plans and tried to look through the areas that might be a problem. So the 8
glass guardrails in general would be but particularly at the corners because you can imagine, if 9
you look at the back side of the house, where there's a glass guardrail in front, the bird sees 10
through the glass guardrail but they're going to see the wall of the house. They're not going to 11
want to fly there. But if you look at the corners, then the birds can see through those corners 12
and that's a real concern. There's also, on 1 side of the house, exterior stairs that go down and 13
there's glass guardrails in the middle of an opening, so there's actual areas where birds can 14
safely fly through and then areas that a bird wouldn't be able to tell, so that would be another 15
potential area of concern. The easier thing to do might just be cables everywhere. But again, I 16
don't want to – I don't think it's for us to prescribe solutions because that's your area of 17
expertise, so the guardrails are the first thing. And then there are several really large windows 18
and doors. So W15, W10. And then I think the second story doors that were – I'm trying to 19
remember which ones. I think it's D01, 05, and 06 were the ones where there were very large 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
panes of uninterrupted glass that were larger than 24 square feet but one of them was 1
downstairs, under an overhang. And that would be not a concern because the overhang 2
prevents the reflectivity. And so there's a number of mitigations that can be done. A, you can 3
interrupt those panes of glass but then that would also interrupt your view. But there's also 4
special glass that – treatments that can be used but those can be hard to obtain for residential 5
use. So anyway, those are the areas of concern. And so I'm hoping that we can do a condition of 6
approval that would be to address those bird hazard concerns but I don't want to dictate how 7
they're addressed because it can be done many different ways, with design, with other 8
materials. And I don't know what materials are out there. So that was my comment regarding 9
the bird design. 10
11
The other – for the Commission, the other thing I wanted to note is normally, I don't like to 12
opine on colors and stuff like that. That's ARB's purview. But this process [inaudible 270:56] 13
never goes to the ARB and so we are the only – we are tasked with making sure that buildings 14
should use natural materials in earth tones or subdued colors. And so that's where my 15
comment on the colors came because when I looked at some of the renderings on – I'm trying 16
to see which – the renderings of the back side of the house. A0.8, it stands out from everything 17
else. And so I think I feel a little bit strongly about this. But in terms of viewshed pollution and 18
whatnot, I think if – anything that can be done to sort of camouflage the house that the 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
applicant would be okay with because I think that the roof color is great. I think the wood color 1
of the wall – there's some wood paneling. That's great. But it's just the white that stands out. 2
3
And so we are the – there's actually a few images also of where the site is. I'm trying to see 4
which plate this is. Oh, A0.6. So if you look at A0.6, 9, 10, 11 show a golf course view, which I'm 5
a little bit less concerned about because you can see other houses there. And then there's the 6
trail view. And I think we're okay there because of shielding from the trees. You see a little 7
meadow but apparently, that meadow is where the woodrat middens are, so that's not actually 8
where the house is situated. It's actually situated a little further up and there should be some 9
trees screening but then I also was concerned about the neighbor, which was saying, "Okay. We 10
can see this." Anything that we can do to blend it in. 11
12
Female: I... 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: There's a hand up too, Chair. 15
16
Chair Akin: Is that enough... 17
18
Daniel Hruby: That was me. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: ...first – yes. 1
2
Female: [Inaudible 273:10]. 3
4
Chair Akin: I'm sorry. I was just asking Vice Chair Chang if she was ready to hand it over. Okay. 5
Mr. Hruby. 6
7
Daniel Hruby: I was just going to make sure that you have the materials board there, which had 8
a better stucco representation. But on that topic, we've been in communication with the 9
neighbor and – after she had made her comment, I believe. She was more receptive to the idea 10
that we would be using earth-tone colors and she seemed relieved or felt better about it. So we 11
certainly will have her approve of the colors in person between us. But so far, I think the 12
intention is not to be a white building but something a little more sandy, earth-tone color. But 13
we intend to work with her on – and have her give us our approval on – that she's happy with 14
those colors too. And as far as the glass railings, no problem. We can redesign those to be the 15
cable railings. I'd like to not have to reduce or divide up the windows in the house just because 16
this is a very expensive property with views that we're trying to take into the building. And to 17
the degree that we can address any sort of bird issues with a type of glass, we can investigate 18
that and see if maybe there's a product for these specific windows that are large that we could 19
specify to try to address that. That's all. I just wanted to clarify some of that for you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Thank you. Vice Chair, are you done with this round? All right. I have Commissioner 2
Templeton. Then Commissioner Hechtman. 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. A couple of thoughts on the Vice Chair's commentary to 5
maybe think about ways to approach it. It looks to me like your renderings don't include 6
landscaping and foundational plantings. Is that something you plan to work on? So in other 7
words, will those foundation walls be exposed or are you going to have bushes and stuff in 8
front of them? 9
10
Daniel Hruby: To the downhill side of the building, we have zones that we're not allowed to 11
have any plants, so no... 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Directly... 14
15
Daniel Hruby: ...we... 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: ...right... 18
19
Daniel Hruby: ...don't. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: ...against the house, there's nothing? 2
3
Daniel Hruby: Yes. We – the 5-foot zone around the perimeter of the building can have no leafy, 4
bushy plants. And then we've got the next zone, which... 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: That's... 7
8
Daniel Hruby: ...I... 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: ...okay. 11
12
Daniel Hruby: ...believe... 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: That's okay. That's what I was asking about. So okay. That's 15
unfortunately, going to make your wall color a lot more visible. What I was going to suggest is, 16
looking at some of these aerial views, that other houses nearby have lighter coloring on their 17
stucco as well, so maybe it's not that different from the others. But yes, you may want to 18
consider – well, it's up – it's obviously not – I'm not a designer, so you have to figure it out but it 19
definitely stands out more than we'd want to on the back side since we can't have any planting 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
thereby to cover it. So in that case, I'm aligned with Vice Chair Chang about being a little bit 1
more subdued in the coloring there. Thank you. 2
3
Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman. 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: So just to clarify for the applicant, we don't know whether your 6
project will be approved before our Bird-Friendly Ordinance or after. I It sounds like it'll be close 7
to the same time but at least the version of the ordinance that went through us didn't prohibit 8
windows of greater than I think 24 square feet. It just required some treatment for them. So 9
you had expressed a desire to not have to break those up. And I guess my point is, even if this 10
ordinance gets to the finish line before you do, that wouldn't be a requirement. It would just be 11
that you're going to have to come up with some treatment for those. As the Vice Chair said, I 12
think W10 and W15 are the 2 that are in excess of 24, assuming that is the number that applies 13
in the final version of the ordinance. So the size is safe. It may require treatment. 14
15
Male: Okay. 16
17
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. First of all, I want to say I'm generally uncomfortable imposing 18
conditions on applicants that don't come from our current ordinances. I think ordinances 19
change all the time and applicants are entitled to knowing what the rules are when they hire 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
people and pay a lot of money to have them design things. And so they shouldn't necessarily be 1
changed. I'm very appreciative of the owner's openness to consider some of these things that 2
there's not an ordinance requiring yet. It could be in our discretion. We could require it. But 3
even without us making that threat, you're open to these things and so I want to acknowledge 4
our appreciation of your willingness to do that. When we're talking about the wraparound 5
railing, we’re trying to balance concerns here. I did like the Vice Chair's comment in pointing 6
out that really the issue with the railing on what I think is the second floor is the corners where 7
a bird could see through one pane and then the second across the corner and think, "There's a 8
tree over there I want to land on." Not so much in the middle of the building. And so as you 9
decide what kind of safety railing you want to put where, there may be a solution here where 10
you can have that clear glass across the frontage that stops somewhere short of the corners, 11
and so I thought that was a good idea. I think those are the additional concerns I had. And 12
again, I'm supportive of the project and interested to hear how some of my fellow 13
commissioners might suggest conditions of approval. 14
15
Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 16
17
Commissioner Ji: Well, Commissioner Hechtman teed me up because I actually feel like we've 18
settled on 3 topics primarily. So I'm just going to read off the list I have, which is the dark skies 19
component; the bird-safe design, bird-friendly mitigations component; and then the coloring. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Any other comments? Okay. So I guess my question for Vice Chair Chang and Commissioner 1
Templeton is, in your opinions, do – are you seeing that all of these end up being conditions or 2
are you seeing – I guess, yes. I just want to get your thoughts on that given that you talked 3
about some of these items. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: Conditions of approval versus recommendations, I guess is the 6
question. I am more of the recommendation variety on this because people may have reasons 7
for – one way or another, may have a hard time finding the materials, whatever. But I think 8
we've given good recommendations and advice here and as long as we include that, that is 9
something they can prepare and respond to for Council and Council can determine what they 10
want to do. So... 11
12
Chair Akin: It'll be on consent. 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: It'll be on consent. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: Oh, it's consent. Then I guess from my perspective, we've given the 17
recommendation. It's up to them. I – personally, how I feel about the house is I would want to 18
incorporate these and it does sound like the homeowner wants to incorporate these 19
suggestions. That feels like enough for me. But I – mileage may vary. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Vice Chair, do you want to add? 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: I think for me, it's just the bird-friendly design. I think – I don't know. These 4
windows are really big. Or not the windows. It's actually the doors. The windows are actually 5
much smaller than the doors. The doors on the back side, the 5-panel and 3-panel, that I'm 6
most concerned with. I mean, it could be solved with a bigger overhang. It could be solved with 7
all sorts of things. But I don't know what all those are. I really – I just would want a glass railing. 8
I think that's the biggest thing because of the corners. If you look at A3.1, the right side of the 9
bottom elevation, I mean, it's like a human could walk through it. So I think – I mean, it sounds 10
like you're – I mean, I think I would feel most comfortable if we could say a condition of 11
approval that we're not going to have the glass railings. And then the rest of it is just 12
recommendations. I – it would – I think that's where I come out on it. 13
14
Chair Akin: Do you have a follow-up, Commissioner Templeton? 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. I think this is where the rubber hits the road with our 17
divergence in December, is you really wanted to make this apply to the parts beyond Foothill 18
and... 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Open... 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: ...I... 3
4
Chair Akin: ...Space. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: ...was thinking citywide that it would be optional. So that's really I 7
think the difference we're talking about. The ordinance isn't in place. I think recommendations 8
are sufficient at this point. And we have put the ordinance recommendations in front of Council 9
and they can enact it when they're ready but it's sort of unfair to change the rules in the middle 10
of the game with this applicant. 11
12
Commissioner Ji: Also, I actually had a question for staff. So suppose that the Council adopts the 13
existing Bird-Friendly Ordinance as-is. Would it then immediately apply to this project, even 14
though – yes. 15
16
Jennifer Armer: Most likely not because the ordinance gets – goes to them for initial discussion. 17
Then it goes to a second reading, which is generally at least 2 weeks later. Sometimes it's a 18
month. And then it's – goes into effect 30 days after that and so the schedule that this project is 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
on in terms of going to Council likely in April would likely get approved before the second 1
reading and 30 days was complete. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: And we don't know yet whether the form of that ordinance for the 4
Bird-Friendly Ordinance will include a provision similar to the Dark Sky that it doesn't apply to 5
6
Jennifer Armer: Correct. 7
8
Commissioner Hechtman: ... any application that's complete. 9
10
Jennifer Armer: Yes. [Inaudible 286:25]. 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: Right? So it could pass before but still exempt this project. 13
14
Commissioner Ji: So I actually was curious about other commissioners' thoughts about requiring 15
the Dark Skies as a condition of approval even though it technically does not apply to this 16
project, even though it's finished. Because I think the intent is for the Dark Skies to apply to 17
projects like this and I think that the owner is pretty amenable to these decisions, so I feel like – 18
and also the fact that we actually already have a Dark Skies Ordinance on the books makes me 19
feel pretty comfortable about adding that as a condition of approval. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: May I just banter a bit on this with you? Is that okay, Chair? 2
3
Chair Akin: Yes. I need to clarify whether Mr. Eordogh has his hand up. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: Oh, go ahead with that first. 6
7
Zoltan Eordogh: Yes. So I'm still trying to save this [inaudible 287:27] glass guardrail and my 8
question is that – there are different types of glazing that we can use in a guardrail. For 9
example, those acid-treated guardrails that has some sort of a pattern like stripes or squares or 10
polka dots or even some sort of interesting pattern that would prevent birds to fly through. So 11
my idea would be that if you put this into the conditions of approval, then rather asking for a 12
specific type of guardrail like steel cable guardrails, it would be better if it would be just a 13
general reference to bird-friendly solutions rather than a specific product. 14
15
Chair Akin: Yes. That's what I had in mind as well and our staff can provide the information that 16
defines what's acceptable there. You're correct. Fritted glass is one of the options that's 17
allowed. Does that answer your question for the time being? 18
19
Zoltan Eordogh: Oh, yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Templeton. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. Yes. I just want to push back a little bit on the idea of – 4
while it's been passed, even though it doesn't apply, so we should apply it to you because it has 5
a lot of design implications and these things are not cheap. And so I feel like it's unfair of us to 6
change the rules in the middle of the game for this applicant who has been very supportive of 7
our advice and suggestions to – we did ask about the design for the lighting ordinance and 8
they're already attempting to comply with it. So maybe your point is, well, we make sure they 9
comply with it. But I don't – I just don't feel like, for personally, that I would be appreciating if 10
that were to happen to me in the middle of a project. So I guess that's what I'm – I'm thinking 11
about why are we doing that and to what end because the applicant is complying with the 12
existing laws. Thank you. 13
14
Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman? 15
16
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. I think on this one, I agree with Commissioner Templeton but for 17
maybe a different reason. Here, the Council made an explicit decision that this ordinance 18
should not apply to any project that was complete as of the date of its adoption. They're not 19
required to do that as a matter of law. That's a choice they made. And they had reasons for 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
making that choice and we have not asked for a staff explanation of what those reasons were. 1
But to ignore an explicit Council decision just doesn't seem appropriate to me unless we're 2
aware of some blind spot that they had at the time they made the decision and we just don't 3
have the information for that. So again, we are fortunate to have a cooperative applicant and I 4
like the idea of phrasing this issue more as a recommendation, that they consider it rather than 5
an imposition of a condition of approval. 6
7
Chair Akin: All right. Any further comments? All right. I think we're to the point of motion 8
making then. Vice Chair Chang. 9
10
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. I'm going to attempt to make a motion. So I'm going to move the staff 11
recommendation with the addition of a strong recommendation that the applicant work with 12
the neighbors on the coloring of the dwelling in an effort to make it camouflaged. And also that 13
– a recommendation that the applicant adhere to the new Dark Skies Ordinance, which applies 14
to external lighting as well as a recommendation that the applicant consider ways to prevent 15
light spillage from interior lighting. And then a recommendation that the applicant mitigate all 16
bird-hazard installations as currently – or sorry – as defined by the last – by what the PTC 17
recommended in the last ordinance. And staff can provide that to the applicant. 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: Second. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Very good. Mr. Tavera? 2
3
Samuel Tavera: Yes. Commissioner Ji? 4
5
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 6
7
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Peterson? 8
9
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 10
11
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Templeton? 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 14
15
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 16
17
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 18
19
Samuel Tavera: Vice Chair Chang? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 2
3
Samuel Tavera: Chair Akin? 4
5
Chair Akin: Yes. 6
7
Samuel Tavera: Motion carries 6-0. 8
9
Chair Akin: Thank you very much for attending and enjoy your project. It looks excellent. And 10
thank you to those of you who have done the work of bringing it to this point. 11
12
Kristina Dobkevicius: Thank you. 13
14
Daniel Hruby: Thank you, commissioners. 15
16
APPROVAL OF MINUTES 17
18
4. Approval of Planning & Transportation Commission Draft Summary & Verbatim 19
Minutes of November 12, 2025 20
21
5. Approval of Planning & Transportation Commission Draft Summary & Verbatim 22
Minutes of December 10, 2025 23
24
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: All right. We have just a couple more items left. Approval of minutes is the first. 1
2
Samuel Tavera: Chair, I... 3
4
Chair Akin: Sorry. I was expecting Mr. Tavera to jump in on that. 5
6
Samuel Tavera: Yes. 7
8
Chair Akin: I can elaborate. 9
10
Samuel Tavera: Yes. I just – for – I can jump in, Chair. Sorry about that. I wanted to share for 11
the record that all PTC commissioners were present for November 12 and December 10. 12
13
Chair Akin: Good. So that means we can do this by voice vote. All right. So move – I'm sorry. 14
What was the first date again? 15
16
Samuel Tavera: November 12. 17
18
Chair Akin: Okay. Move approval of the minutes of November 12 as revised. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: And December 10 as revised? 1
2
Chair Akin: Oh. We're going to be able to do them both together. 3
4
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 5
6
Chair Akin: All right. 7
8
Commissioner Hechtman: And the minutes of December 10 as revised. 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: Second. 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 13
14
Chair Akin: All right. 15
16
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 17
18
Chair Akin: All in favor? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 1
2
Chair Akin: Aye. 3
4
Group vote: Aye. 5
6
Samuel Tavera: Yes. Passes unanimously. 7
8
Chair Akin: Thank you. 9
10
Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 11
Members of the public may not speak to the item(s). 12
13
Chair Akin: Commissioners, it is time for questions, comments, and announcements. Anyone 14
have anything to offer tonight? 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 17
18
Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji and then Commissioner... 19
20
Commissioner Ji: No. 21
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: ...Templeton. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Commissioner Templeton can go first. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: Oh. Thank you very much. I just wanted to share with the 6
Commission that when I first joined, one of my assignments I – we already had someone on the 7
NVCAP so I moved off the NVCAP and I moved on to the XCAP as a Planning and Transportation 8
Commissioner. That is no longer happening but during the time I was there, we recommended 9
to the Council to close Churchill. And as you know, that issue is becoming a community 10
conversation. So I encourage anybody to reach out to the community and talk to people about 11
how they feel about it. I don't know that we're ever going to get to weigh in on it as a 12
commission but it's good to be familiar with that, so Commissioner Reckdahl was also on there. 13
He's now a Council member. So if you want to talk to either of us about it, I'm sure we'd have a 14
lot to say. But becoming familiar and thinking about what does that mean is a good 15
conversation. I was really – I hope that sometime soon, we can talk to the Transportation team 16
about it. It turns out the Public Works is the team that's going to be working on the closure, 17
according to the Council on Monday. But any thoughts that we have, we are always thinking 18
about the streets and the crossings and safety. I'm sure they would be happy to hear from us. 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So I encourage everybody here to think about that and think about what we can do to make it 1
safe. 2
3
I will also say that in the community conversations I've been having since the incident last week 4
has been, what can we do for the other crossings too, right? These are major undertakings. We 5
have big streets like Charleston that go all the way from 280 down to 101 and so they're major 6
thoroughfares. That crossing's going to be harder to deal with. It's not a closure option. What 7
happens at Meadow? What can we do to mitigate that? We don't have the undercrossings 8
down in the south part of the city that we have in the north part of the city. So all of these 9
things are really good things we've been talking about, these bike crossings, as a commission. 10
So I just wanted to ask everybody to – and I'm sure you already are – just keep thinking about it 11
and trying to have that conversation with the Council and with the community because 12
everybody's really focused on it right now. 13
14
Chair Akin: Thank you. Very timely and well stated. Commissioner Ji, did you have something? 15
16
Commissioner Ji: Yes. So this past week or maybe 2 weeks ago, we had a meeting of the San 17
Antonio Road Area Plan Community Advisory Group. What a mouthful. Ms. Armer can correct 18
me if I was wrong there. But we had a developer there who's part of the Presidio Bay Ventures, 19
so they are working on the Charleston Mountain View Gateway Project, which is where the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Best Buy – the REI used to be. And so one of the main discussion points that we had during the 1
Community Advisory Group was about different uses for development. So the development 2
team there, Presidio Bay, is really interested in mixed use and so they actually offered to give us 3
a tour of a different mixed-use development that they have in downtown Menlo Park called 4
Springline. And it's pretty new. It's pretty close to downtown Menlo Park. And I reached out to 5
Matthew to see if folks from the PTC would be invited as well and he said yes. And so I would 6
like to extend an invite to the Commission for, I think, tentatively February 18, one Wednesday 7
from now. He's still finalizing the details but once I get that more settled, I will forward the 8
invite over to everyone. 9
10
Jennifer Armer: And I will check on Brown Act concerns. Seeing as how this is related to a 11
project that will be coming before you for a review, we'll want to be cautious. We may not be 12
allowed to have a majority of the PTC participate in that. 13
14
Commissioner Ji: Yes. I was about to say that. I was about to say that there is a date that is 15
scheduled but I will defer to Ms. Armer about the details legality there. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Is it agendized? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: So – yes. We – it's on a tentative agenda at the end of March, so as [inaudible 1
300:26]. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Tentative agendas count? 4
5
Jennifer Armer: So – yes. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 8
9
Jennifer Armer: We do know that that project will be coming to you for review. The... 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: The Menlo Park Project's coming to us for review? 12
13
Jennifer Armer: No. The San Antonio Road Area Plan and the [inaudible 300:39]. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: But we can still tour the Menlo Park Project. 16
17
Jennifer Armer: Correct. My concern is having a group of you together in the same place looking 18
at something to inform a future decision. I will confirm with legal whether this is a concern or 19
not. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Ji: I think Mr. Yang just popped up. I don't know if you want to add anything. 2
3
Albert Yang: Yes. I'll just need to talk through some of the details with Ms. Armer. And we may 4
be in touch with you, Commissioner Ji. 5
6
Commissioner Ji: Sounds great. Ms. Armer's actually on the email thread... 7
8
Jennifer Armer: Yes. 9
10
Commissioner Ji: ...I believe, so maybe Ms. Armer can help coordinate some of this. 11
12
Jennifer Armer: Yes. Let's – I like that suggestion. Thank you, Commissioner Ji. We – anybody 13
who's interested in participating can reach out to me but once I confirm with Albert what the 14
restrictions might be, I can also share that information with the Commission. 15
16
Commissioner Ji: Yes. But I think personally that this would be a really interesting opportunity, 17
to look at some mixed-use development in neighboring cities. Also because – the reason why 18
we kicked off this conversation is because of discussion about ground-floor retail, when does it 19
work, when it doesn't work. And so the developer had actually talked about in certain projects 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
like this one that they mentioned in Menlo Park that the retail actually would not survive and 1
the developer is actually subsidizing the ground-floor amenities, the retail. So I think this would 2
be an interesting case study as we continue to discuss things like ground-floor retail ordinances 3
on El Camino and our – we're literally doing retail revitalization, so I think that this is really 4
pertinent to some of the discussion topics that we are having. 5
6
Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson? 7
8
Commissioner Peterson: So I just wanted to speak to the Churchill Road Crossing, where by the 9
high school, there's a petition floating around, initiated by the high school students. 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 302:39]. 12
13
Commissioner Peterson: Is that it? That they would like to have a security guard at the crossing 14
to be there rather than – I'm not sure what we have now but that there should be somebody 15
actually there at the crossing guard at all times, which I think sounds – when you go to a 16
swimming pool and you have kids in the pool, you have a lifeguard. So it doesn't seem like it's 17
an awkward idea, so I just wanted to put that on record here. Thank you. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Thank you. Any other announcements, questions? Very well, then. We are 1
adjourned. 2
3
Adjournment 4
11:04 p.m. 5
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/aeke 8