HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-11-12 Planning & Transportation Commission Verbatim Minutes_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Planning & Transportation Commission 1
Verbatim Minutes: November 12, 2025 2
Council Chambers & Virtual 3
6:00 p.m. 4
5
Call to Order / Roll Call 6
6:00 p.m. 7
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Chair Allen Akin: Good evening, everyone. I call to order the November 12, 2025, meeting of 9
the Planning & Transportation Commission. 10
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ROLL CALL 12
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Chair Akin: Mr. Tavera, would you call the roll? 14
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Samuel Tavera: Yes. Chair Akin? 16
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Chair Akin: Here. 18
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Samuel Tavera: Vice Chair Chang? 20
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Vice Chair Bryna Chang: Here. 22
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
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Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 2
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Commissioner Bart Hechtman: Here. 4
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Samuel Tavera: Commissioner James? 6
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Commissioner Todd James: Here. 8
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Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Ji? 10
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Commissioner Kevin Ji: Here. 12
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Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Peterson? 14
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Commissioner Forest Olaf Peterson: Here. 16
17
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Templeton? 18
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Commissioner Cari Templeton: Here. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Samuel Tavera: For the record, we have quorum. 2
3
Agenda Changes, Additions and Deletions 4
The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 5
6
Chair Akin: Thank you. Assistant Director Armer, do we have any agenda changes, additions, or 7
deletions? 8
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Assistant Director Jennifer Armer: No changes. 10
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Oral Communications 12
The public may speak to any item not on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker.1,2 13
14
Chair Akin: Thank you. Mr. Tavera, do we have any public comments for items that are not on 15
the agenda? 16
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Samuel Tavera: Through the chair, at this moment I have received no public comment cards and 18
no requests to speak via Zoom. 19
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Chair Akin: Thank you. All right. 21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
City Official Reports 2
1. Directors Report, Meeting Schedule and Assignments 3
4
Chair Akin: Then we're ready for Item One, so the official reports. Assistant Director Armer, 5
would you begin? 6
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Assistant Director Armer: Yes. Good evening. Welcome to what looks likely to be our second to 8
last meeting of the year, so I will dive right into that as we go to the next slide. Our meeting the 9
day before Thanksgiving is cancelled, and we currently have 2 items scheduled for your 10
December 10 meeting. One is a housing development project at 2100 Geng Road. The other is a 11
reconsideration of the Bird-Friendly Design Ordinance. As previously mentioned, we did 12
schedule a tentative special meeting for December 17 in case there were additional items that 13
needed to be considered because we only have one regularly scheduled meeting in November 14
and December, but at this time, we do not have any critical items that need to be placed on 15
that agenda, so I do expect to be cancelling it unless something happens on the 10th and we 16
need to continue something. But at this point, we don't expect to need that special meeting 17
date, so thank you for holding it on your calendars. And then the December 31 meeting is also 18
cancelled since that is a holiday. Next slide. 19
20
A few updates on council items from PTC-reviewed items. On November 10, earlier this week, 21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the project at 660 University was approved with modifications. They accepted the Planning and 1
Transportation Commission recommendations with the exception of changing the approval of 2
the project to – back to the 70-unit project with the balconies, but they maintained the other 3
elements recommended by PTC. In the future, we do anticipate bringing the Rental Registry 4
Year One report to Council for an informational item in December. The project at 4075 El 5
Camino Way is also expected to go in December, likely the second or third meeting of the 6
month, and the El Camino Real Retail Node Map will go to Council, though at this point, it is 7
scheduled to go to the Retail Committee first in December, which means it would then follow to 8
a January meeting for Council on consent. That concludes my presentation. We do have an 9
update from Transportation. 10
11
Chair Akin: Mr. Arce. 12
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Senior Transportation Planner Ozzy Arce: Good evening, Chair and Vice Chair. My name is Ozzy 14
Arce, Senior Transportation Planner and OOT Staff Liaison at PTC. I introduced myself last time 15
but happy to be here again this evening. A few slides for you all for this evening's update. Just a 16
quick note, also, Ria Lo, the Director of OOT, is present here tonight. Next slide. 17
18
I mentioned this at your last PTC meeting, and this is an item on your agenda tonight, yet a 19
friendly reminder that the public comment period for the Draft Bicycle and Pedestrian 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Transportation Plan closes this Friday, end of day, so if you haven't reviewed the draft plan and 1
the near-term projects and provided feedback, now is your last chance. And again, this is a 2
friendly reminder that the BPTP update serves as a city's road map for future investment in our 3
bike and ped network. Next slide. 4
5
And also mentioned this at your last PTC meeting but it was a brief mention, so I just wanted to 6
reiterate kudos to the OOT staff who held a great community meeting for the Alma/Charleston 7
improvements in late October. This is road safety improvements that are separate from the 8
Grade Separation Project. Next step, staff is currently reviewing the 35 percent design plans 9
and will bring the public – will bring the next draft for public review in winter and spring of 10
2026. Next slide. 11
12
Addison Avenue from Bryant Street to Middlefield Road received some recent street 13
improvements. It is a key bicycle priority street and was repaved in fall of 2025 to improve 14
safety for all road users, especially for bicycle riders. We filled this gap in the bicycle network. 15
Addison Avenue was repaved with full-time bike lanes on the eastbound side, protected bike 16
lane with delineated posts on the eastbound side, and shared lane markings on the westbound. 17
Just noting that Addison Avenue, this portion used to be a restricted-hour bike lane, and it is 18
now a 24-hour bike lane. Next slide, please. 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Also, University Avenue, El Camino Rail Overpass in Downtown, received some recent 1
improvements. This is a key connection between Downtown through the Palo Alto Transit 2
Center and into Stanford's Palm Drive. Caltrans is leading this effort in conjunction with the 3
City, and there – currently the crews are working to replace the bridge railing at the 4
overcrossing and – as well as replace and upgrade existing vehicle and pedestrian railings and 5
curb ramp, sidewalk signals, and lights as you can see from these photos. The bridge railing 6
replacement is scheduled to be complete next year. And just a sidebar note, in addition to 7
these University Avenue overcrossing improvements, there are also additional locations where 8
Caltrans is scoped to close underutilized, non-ADA-compliant pedestrian tunnels along El 9
Camino Real. Just wanted to note that that's part of this project as well. Next slide. 10
11
This – now over to the south side of the city, the South Palo Alto Bike/Ped Connectivity Project, 12
which will identify locations and design concepts for 2 new grade-separated bike and pathways 13
will go across the Caltrans Corridor. I believe that PTC saw this project recently. Eight crossing 14
alternatives are currently being shared with the community, and staff will present these 8 15
crossing designs to the Rail Committee on Tuesday, November 18, and the City Council on 16
December 1. Council is expected to select up to 2 concept designs in early 2026, and please visit 17
the project web page for more information. 18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Lastly, I just wanted to also highlight that the – in the theme of the grade separation, we're 1
continuing with the Grade Separation Project, and earlier this fall, the City hosted 2 community 2
meetings at Mitchell Park. And next steps is the Rail Committee is scheduled to review the 15 3
percent designs at their November 18 meeting. And following that Rail Committee meeting, the 4
Council will consider the project and provide formal direction. There are 2 council meetings 5
scheduled for December 10 and December 15, and this is for the larger Grade 6
Separation Project. And I believe that concludes my OOT updates for this meeting. Thank you. 7
8
Assistant Director Armer: And I will add one additional note that I remembered based on the 9
comments from Mr. Arce. Because there is currently scheduled a special council meeting on 10
December 10, which is the same evening as our regular meeting, at this point – at this time, we 11
are scheduled to have our Planning and Transportation Commission meeting in the community 12
room out – off of the front lobby, so keep an eye. That will be noted on the agenda when it is 13
sent out that, but I think it is safe to expect at this point that that's going to be the location for 14
our meeting that evening. Thank you. 15
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Chair Akin: Thank you. Very comprehensive and useful reports. Commissioners, do you have 17
any questions? 18
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Chair Akin: So the Council didn't want to take the community room? 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Assistant Director Armer: We were asked to relocate. 2
3
Chair Akin: I noticed the work on Addison because it's near me. It looks great. It'll be interested 4
to – interesting to see how people deal with the change in hours, but the kids are very happy 5
about it. So all right then, if there are no other questions or comments. Commissioner Ji? 6
7
Commissioner Ji: Thank you. Mr. Arce, I notice that you made a brief statement about the 8
closing of non-ADA-compliant tunnels, I think is what you said, along El Camino. Can you refer 9
to, like, which those are specifically? I'm not actually familiar with these. 10
11
Senior Transportation Planner Arce: The specific locations are slipping from my memory, but we 12
can circle back with the commissioners about the details. They are along El Camino Real, and 13
yes, we can definitely circle back with the Commission on those details. Sorry about that. 14
15
Commissioner Ji: Thank you. 16
17
Chair Akin: No other questions? Then we are ready for our first Action Item tonight. 18
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Action Items 20
Public Comment is permitted. Five (5) minutes per speaker. 21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
2. Review Draft 2025 Comprehensive Plan Implementation Annual Progress Report and 1
Draft 2023-2031 Housing Element Annual Progress Report and Recommend City 2
Council Authorize Transmittal of the Reports to the Governor’s Office of Land Use 3
and Climate Innovation and Department of Housing and Community Development, 4
by April 1, 2026, CEQA Status: Not a Project. 5
6
Chair Akin: Agenda Item Number Two, reviewing the Draft 2025 Comprehensive Plan and 7
Housing Element Annual Progress Reports. These begin on Packet Page 9 for anyone who's 8
following along. Could we have the staff presentation, please? 9
10
Senior Planner Kelly Cha: Yes. Yes. Good evening, Chair, Vice Chair, and Commissioners. My 11
name is Kelly Cha. I'm here to present the Comprehensive Plan and Housing Element 12
Implementation Annual Progress Update. Next, please. 13
14
So as you may already aware – as you may be already aware, we are required to submit a 15
progress report on the comprehensive plan implementation to the Governor's Office of Land 16
Use and Climate Innovation – that's LCI, formerly OPR, Office of Planning and Research – and to 17
the California Department of Housing and Community Development, HCD, by April each year. 18
And so after tonight, staff will take the PTC recommendation to the City Council early next year 19
to meet these reporting deadlines. 20
21
And as you can see on this slide, the Palo Alto Municipal Code specifies that PTC annually 22
review the Comp Plan and recommend to the City Council any changes or additions as 23
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
necessary. Tonight's item is for annual progress report, but this information could be used to 1
identify whether any changes are needed. So – but tonight, no changes to the Comp Plan will 2
be considered, and any future modifications to the Comp Plan will be directed or needed to be 3
directed by the City Council. Next, please. 4
5
And our Comprehensive Plan was adopted back in 2017 with 410 programs, and it has 6
implementation priorities and level of efforts to require to complete. Next, please. 7
8
And this is overall progress on the completion status. And as you can see, we have made some 9
progress from last year. We have about 28 completed programs, and most – the majority of the 10
programs are ongoing, which are something that we have already implemented but we're 11
routinely implementing them every year. And we have made some changes to the status, most 12
of them ongoing and complete. The partially completed items have trimmed down to 48, and 13
now we have about 10 percent of the total programs pending. Next, please. 14
15
And this slide is showing the same information about complete – the status by the target 16
completion date. We have those separated by 4 categories, completion by 2022, completion by 17
between 2022 and '27, and anything after 2027 – and also, we have items that are continuous. 18
Those are what we call ongoing items. Next, please. 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
And this slide is showing the progress by level of effort to complete, and this is showing the 1
total programs of 382. That's excluding the 28 completed items. And as you can see, most of 2
them are under ongoing category, and we have been making a lot of progress on implementing 3
them. Next, please. 4
5
Kelly Cha: And we're switching to the Housing Element Implementation Program. We have – 6
last year have made great progress. We have a total of 110 programs that was adopted back in 7
2024. That is for the 6th Cycle of Housing Element, and that covers the years from 2023 to 8
2031. And – so this is the third year providing progress report on this. And so as you can see, 9
over 60 – it looks like 60 percent we had implemented, either completed or ongoing process. 10
And so that leaves us about 9 pending programs and 26 that have been implemented but in 11
progress to complete. Next, please. 12
13
And this is the progress on the Regional Housing Needs Allocation number. This shows the 14
housing that has been issued as of October 2025 and showing different – showing by different 15
income category. Most of them – we have made about 10 percent – just shy of 10 percent – 16
and most of them are above moderate, but we did make about 20 percent of the total of 592 17
units affordable housing, so that is a great progress. And we have a lot of projects that's in 18
pipeline that will show up next year's progress. Next, please. 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
So next steps are we will take the Planning and Development Services – sorry. We will take the 2
Planning and Transportation Commission's recommendation into the City Council – sorry – to 3
the City Council for their review and authorization to submit our progress reports to LCI and 4
HCD no later than April 2026. And so just to reiterate, our recommendation is to – for the PTC 5
to review the progress report on both Comp Plan and Housing Element and recommend City 6
Council to authorize the transmission. That concludes staff presentation and ready for any 7
questions. 8
9
Chair Akin: Thank you, Ms. Cha. Commissioners, do we have any clarification requests for the 10
benefit of public comment? Vice Chair Chang. 11
12
Vice Chair Chang: Thank you so much for the presentation. Can you give us – can you remind us 13
again what the big kind of milestone check-ins are regarding housing and what HCD is looking 14
at? So in other words, if we don't do X by Y time frame, what happens kind of thing. 15
16
Jennifer Armer: Yes. Happy to give a high-level response to that. There is a mid-cycle check-in, 17
but the primary area where we need to watch and track, the housing production, is to make 18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
sure that we don't get to a point where the number of units produced is – if it is less on a 1
particular site that we allocated for the RHNA, than we could get to – okay, let me rephrase 2
that. Let me say that again. We need to make sure that the RHNA number, the estimated 3
number of units that will be produced over the 8-year cycle, is consistent with the regional 4
housing needs that was allocated to the City. So if we get to a point where the combination of 5
the number of units produced plus the number of units listed on the remaining sites on our 6
inventory is less than the RHNA that was assigned to the City, either in total or in any of those 7
categories of affordability, then the City has 6 months to rezone additional parcels and 8
designate them as additional Housing Element sites to maintain capacity for that RHNA. 9
However, we can include sites that are not on the housing inventory towards that. So at this 10
point, we actually have a number of housing development projects that are going through the 11
process that aren't Housing Element sites and should help us balance out that RHNA allocation. 12
Thank you. 13
14
Chair Akin: I have Commissioner Templeton and then Commissioner Peterson. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: That's me. I was just trying to interpret your chart. If you want to put 17
up the one with the percent of RHNA permitted. 18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Kelly Cha: That's Slide 7. 2
3
Jennifer Armer: And as we are waiting for that to be pulled up, an element that I wanted to 4
share in regards to this, since this is just about the building permits issued, there are a lot more 5
units that are in process right now, even ones that have gone through the entitlement phase 6
and approved through Planning that are not captured here but that is part of our final 7
reporting. We are currently working on developing a housing dashboard that will give you some 8
of that interim, in-progress numbers as well beyond [inaudible 20:28]. 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: You're anticipating my not technical questions, but I appreciate that. 11
My first – my question really is – I do eventually want to talk about making this a better chart, 12
and it sounds like you already have plans to do that. But right now, my question is how did you 13
get 2.06 for extremely low income? Did you divide 16 over 592? 14
15
Kelly Cha: It might be over 778, which is the assigned number. Let me check that. 16
17
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. But it – is it? 1
2
Kelly Cha: It is. 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: Because I don't get that number. 5
6
Kelly Cha: Oh. 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: So I'm not going to put you on the spot. I'm sure whatever it is we 9
can figure it out, but I just want to say I know this particular community cares very deeply about 10
these things. I want to make sure the information is accurate. We can get more into that later. 11
Thank you. 12
13
Jennifer Armer: If I may, I did just run the calculation, and when you divide 16 by 778 – not the 14
762 – by 778, that does give you 2 percent – 2.06 percent. 15
16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: That's why I was trying to – we have to get on the same page. So 1
what is [inaudible 21:53]… 2
3
Jennifer Armer: It's percentage of allocation. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: …out the remaining. So it's 778 minus 16 is the 762. 6
7
Jennifer Armer: Correct. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: Got it. Okay. Great. Thank you. 10
11
Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson. 12
13
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. So the question I have is I guess lots of times when I 14
look at these tables, kind of the standard way we look at them is the product that's being 15
produced and then the process that goes into it. But also, oftentimes what's helpful is to know 16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the organization. So I'm assuming, Ms. Armer, you're not the only one working on this, that 1
there's a team. Just for a scale, how many people are working on these projects and then 2
what's the distribution across these? 3
4
Jennifer Armer: So we've got, as you saw in the table for the comprehensive plan, we've got 5
staff from all departments working on a variety because the comprehensive plan covers things 6
across the city. And so we do have multiple staff that are involved in all of those. Some of this 7
reporting we have flexibility about how we present the information. In other parts of it, we 8
don't. It's dictated by the State, for example. So we do try to show you, while we don't say how 9
many staff are working on it, because that would be difficult to track, we are showing which 10
departments are involved. 11
12
Commissioner Peterson: So in general, about how many staff members, if we just put them into 13
FTEs, are we looking at that work here? 14
15
Jennifer Armer: I could not estimate. 16
17
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: A dozen? A hundred? Just ballpark. 1
2
Jennifer Armer: I could not estimate. 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 5
6
Chair Akin: Commissioners, any other pre-public comment questions? 7
8
PUBLIC COMMENTS 9
10
Chair Akin: Seeing none, Mr. Tavera, do we have any comment requests for this item? 11
12
Samuel Tavera: To the Chair, I have not received any public comment cards, and there are no 13
raised hands on Zoom. 14
15
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Thank you. All right. It's time to open it up for general discussion by the Commission, 1
and we'll begin with Commissioner Templeton. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. The reason I was asking about making sure we are all 4
understanding the calculations on this table is because I think there's a column that would help 5
us interpret this information that's not currently included, and I was wondering if we could 6
have it in the next iteration or when you pass it to Council. That column is of how are we 7
tracking. So you have the precent permitted but not the percent that we are – what our target 8
is. So for example, we are currently at 2.06 percent for extremely low income, but of the 9
numbers allocated, it's 778/686. It should be – our target should be, if we were on track with 10
every type of income – I mean a housing level, it would be like 12 percent, right? So showing 11
2.6 percent, I can go, "Yay, we're at 2.6 percent," but we should be at 12 percent if we were on 12
track to build everything we have schedule in RHNA. Does that make sense? 13
14
Jennifer Armer: That does make sense, and I understand the point that you're making. I think I 15
would add some additional context, which is the Housing Element was only adopted last year, 16
and so because of the delay in the process – the additional process that was involved – this 80-17
year cycle did not get started. And in addition to that, the policies that are making it easier for 18
housing and encouraging more housing take time to go into effect. And as I stated, there is a lot 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
of housing that's in process. It takes several years often for these to get through the planning 1
process, the building process, and actually to construction. So I would hesi-… 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: So we didn't need extremely low-income housing before? Before 4
this cycle? 5
6
Jennifer Armer: We had done a lot… 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: I mean… 9
10
Jennifer Armer: …through this Housing Element … 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: I understand. And you're mitigating… 13
14
Jennifer Armer: …to try and… 15
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: …I understand what you're trying to mitigate. 2
3
Jennifer Armer: Right. [Inaudible 26:17 ]. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: What I'm trying to say is let's just reflect. The reason is not only are 6
there the mitigations of timing and planning and all of those things, but that's literally what 7
we're trying to do. And so we can highlight "this is an area that's not proceeding at pace as well 8
as the other areas," and that's an area for Council to consider "why are we not doing as well 9
here?" Part of it's going to be the things you mentioned, but there may be other things Council 10
can consider, like any actions they can take. 11
12
Jennifer Armer: Right. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: Does that make sense? 15
16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: It does. And I think my one caution would be if we assumed that the same 1
number would be produced each year in order to get to our RHNA levels, that that is not 2
necessarily an accurate assumption or expectation since we do expect that in the first 3 years, 3
as we have seen, it is less than how many we would need if we averaged it over the years. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: But that is also not my first RHNA cycle… 6
7
Jennifer Armer: Yes. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: …so let me just say this is always an area that we're deficient in. And 10
if we don't like stop justifying and start looking for how can we take responsibility and do 11
better, then it doesn't change and we end the RHNA cycle deficient, right? 12
13
Jennifer Armer: Yes. 14
15
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: So I hear what you're saying and note there's not – this is not about 1
blame, it's about transparency. If you're able to show here's a moment, a snapshot where we're 2
behind here, and then maybe 2 or 3 years go by and we're not doing any better, if you add that 3
column, you're going to have a better likelihood of effecting that number. 4
5
Jennifer Armer: That is a very good point, and that is part of why having that percentage is so 6
critical. We will take the suggestion into consideration. 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. 9
10
Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman and then Vice Chair Chang. 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. So I have a combination of comments and questions, and 13
I think I'll just kind of go front to back through the staff report. First of all, I want to, as I think I 14
try to do every year, applaud staff. There are 520 policies and programs that they are tasked 15
with tracking and moving forward at various stages. And so that's a herculean task just to 16
document it, which is, of course, just the most minor of efforts compared to actually doing it, 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
which they are doing across across the board, so I appreciate that. And I also appreciate the 1
annual updates not because the state mandates them but because it shows us the progress 2
we're making and maybe identifies for us the places where we need to make progress more 3
quickly, like on our very, very low housing stock. So I think it's really useful for that too. And I 4
was happy to see this year that we're a few years into this Comp Plan; last year we only have 17 5
completed and we had 11 more in the past year, which is great. Those are done. 410 minus 28. 6
And similarly on the housing side, 110, but I think 30 are done. So great. Now we can focus on 7
the remaining 80. 8
9
Packet Page 13, Table 2 is the Completion Status, and this is a question for staff. So the first line 10
of that, by 2022 was the target completion for 97 projects under the Comp Plan. Of those 92, 11
we've got 13 that are partially complete and 7 that are pending, which means they haven't 12
been started, and we're here in 2025. So I just wanted to ask staff, on those 20, which I think 13
this is Slide 4, does staff have a particular concern about any of those or staff is comfortable 14
even though the original deadline was by 2022; there's a reason it's not at least in process and 15
they're comfortable with its status in the overall scheme? That was my first question. 16
17
Kelly Cha: I can start, and there's a [inaudible 30:47] supplement afterwards. Those 7 pending 18
and 13 in progress or partially complete were – staff are not really concerned at this moment 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
even though this is 2025 and they were supposed to be completed by 2022. Always, as you 1
already know, the priorities change. Resources available also changes. So it – sometimes the 2
target date shifts. But the target date you're looking at is what we have established back in 3
2027. So that's why there's some changes… 4
5
Jennifer Armer: 2017. 6
7
Kelly Cha: 2017. So we're not very concerned about these target completion dates, but we're 8
making progress so that we make priorities on those items that are still pending or partially 9
complete. 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Thank you. Same Package Page 13, Table 3, this is the level of 12
effort and we have 9 partially complete and 5 pending in the substantial category, which is the 13
greatest draw on staff resources. All right. Those are the most expensive apparently. So same 14
question: Does staff have any particular concerns about those that are partially complete or 15
pending that, because of the needed resources, we may not be able to accomplish those? 16
17
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Kelly Cha: I think we do have some concerns with the resources, but these are already – or the 1
programs that we have discussed to implement back in 2017, so it's not something that we're 2
not aware of. And so we're – the staff is always looking for additional resources, like budget or 3
grant opportunities, to cover some of those additional resources we may be needing. And also, 4
we're making progress also with the staffing as well, so as different departments make those 5
progress, you will probably see more updates and progress on those. 6
7
Jennifer Armer: And what I would add is that the comprehensive plan is an aspirational 8
document. It is very common that overall the total number of implementation programs that 9
are included in a comprehensive plan or general plan far exceeds what actually can be done in 10
the period of time. And as previously mentioned, the shifting of priorities means that certain 11
things move up on the list or move down or get implemented sooner because of state law or 12
other things like that. So it is not uncommon and we don't have concerns about those numbers 13
in general. 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Great. Thank you. Let's see. On Packet Page 14, Table 5, which 16
is the table that Commissioner Templeton was referencing. 2 observations. One, the table you 17
showed in Slide 7 is a slight update from what's in our staff report. That wasn't mentioned, but I 18
want to just mention to my fellow commissioners to make sure we all caught that. The numbers 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
are just slightly increased in the Above Moderate and, therefore, Total. But the bottom line is 1
overall, a little more than 9½ percent – call it 10 percent of our RHNA numbers, 3/8 of the way 2
through the cycle. And so in that kind of simple measure, we're behind. I mean, if we were 3
going to be on target, and I don't know of anybody who has ever suggested that it's realistic to 4
expect that we'll ever be on target with these RHNA numbers, but that's kind of the measure of 5
how far we are from the keeping pace with this target the State set for us on questionable 6
bases. But we are making progress across all the categories, and so that is encouraging. And as 7
our assistant director mentioned, what's not referenced here is the applications pending, which 8
– I would love to see that next year. So I'm glad you're going to add that. 9
10
Okay. Now turning just to the implementation tables, so this is a continuing dialogue we have 11
with staff every year about how to tell us what's new. And so from when I started, this is really 12
much improved because as I've said, once you've read the 410 one time in one year, my next 13
year I just need to know what's different. And so this year staff has tried to address that with a 14
new column called Changes From 2024, and I just wanted to give staff my feedback. I think it's 15
helpful, but it could be more helpful. So for example, in that changes column it says, "Yes, 16
Status and Staff Comments," and so I'm just looking at any one and so I can see what the status 17
is now but I don't know what it changed from. And similarly, I can see the staff comments now, 18
but I don't know if it's a whole new comment or you added a sentence. And so, appreciating 19
that this information is coming from different departments, I'd ask staff to consider next year 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
whether you could run a redline. When you bring us a draft amendment to an ordinance, you 1
show us "Here's the ordinance with the cross-out of what we're saying should go away and 2
underline what we are saying we should add." And so if we could see that in that format, then 3
you don't even need the last column because I can see with my eyes what's been crossed out 4
and what's been added. Again, I don't know if technically that can be done, but that would be 5
very useful. 6
7
And then really, my last comment is next year on the Housing Element side, same concept. 8
Right now it's new. This is only the second year we've seen it. The next year, I'd like to be able 9
to focus on what's changed. And so a redline of what we have in our packet today with the new 10
version you bring us next year at this time, that would really answer my question and just allow 11
me to scour 110 and see exactly what's different. So those are my comments. Thanks again for 12
a good job on this big task. 13
14
Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner Hechtman. I second the redlining request to the extent 15
that is technically possible. It sure would be helpful. I was mistaken about Vice Chair Chang, so 16
we're now on to Commissioner Peterson. 17
18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. I put a third on the redlining. I think that's a great 1
idea, and I can see how that would l remove the last column because it would serve the same 2
purpose and give us that extra detail that would be much more information. So the questions I 3
have is to clarifying. One, I heard a comment about priorities, and I realized – are these ranked 4
in order of priority? So if it says C113, that's a higher priority than C115? 5
6
Jennifer Armer: No. That is just the numbering that it was given in the document. In general, 7
you can look at the year when it was estimated to be completed to give an indication of what 8
was likely seen at that time as the higher priority for implementation more immediately. 9
10
Commissioner Peterson: So does Council, do they have a priority list? I know some of the city 11
councils will do a priority… 12
13
Jennifer Armer: Yes. At the beginning of each year, they work on council priorities, which is the 14
list of tasks that they want staff to be working on in addition to our normal work. And so that is 15
something – we have mentioned that in some of our staff reports that we'll say this effort is a 16
council priority. That's something they revisit at the beginning of every year. 17
18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: So some of these are priority items… 1
2
Jennifer Armer: Correct. 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: …for Council, but we would have to sit there and put the 2 lists 5
together? 6
7
Jennifer Armer: When Council is looking at what their priorities are going to be for the next 8
year, if there is room to add new ones, often looking at the implementation programs from the 9
Comprehensive Plan is an area where they may find additional efforts to add. 10
11
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. And then my second question is regarding – back to staffing. I 12
understand we don't know how many staff we have on this. I assume every city staff member is 13
[inaudible 39:53]. I worked in the county, and I worked on probably everything except for the 14
office I was actually in because we got repurposed for everything. So I understand how each 15
week you can all be shuffled around on different tasks, whatever's the item for that week. But 16
the question – I guess another way of looking at it is how many unfilled staff positions do we 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
have. Because you mentioned that of filling staff. How many open positions do you have that 1
you would like to have working on this? 2
3
Jennifer Armer: We have – I don't know how many positions we have across the city off the top 4
of my head. That's not a number I have access to in the moment. I know that in our planning 5
department we have at least a couple of positions that are open that are currently out for 6
recruitment that we are working to fill. Some of them may work on tasks here. Some may work 7
on other tasks like reviewing current planning projects. So it's not something that we analyze 8
and kind of break down into that form. 9
10
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. But in general, what we're looking at here is a staffing deficit of 11
a few people. 12
13
Jennifer Armer: I want to be hesitant in confirming that because… 14
15
Commissioner Peterson: I understand. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: …as we said, it is across multiple departments that these efforts occur. My 1
knowledge is focused on Planning and each of them would – some might work on some of 2
these; some might work on other tasks. 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. Thank you. 5
6
Chair Akin: Commissioner Templeton? 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: Thanks. A quick question. Is this made in Word or Excel? This table? 9
10
Kelly Cha: For updating with – across departmental staff, it is actually Excel and then we work 11
with Word to make it legible. 12
13
Jennifer Armer: To make it more legible than it was originally. And there were some instances 14
where the wording was getting cut off when it was in Excel, so we were trying to produce it in a 15
way that was going to be as accessible as possible. 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: So the reason I asked is because of this redlining question, which is 2
easy in a Word document but harder in Excel. But I was just looking it up to see is there a tool? 3
And in the computer science world, we call it a diff. You compare 2 files and get a diff. It prints 4
it out and says this file has this; this file has that. But that's not necessarily a feature of Excel, 5
but there is a tool out there to compare 2 spreadsheets, and it will tell you the difference. So 6
it's reasonable, I'm just – the reason I'm mentioning that is I recognize the feasibility is probably 7
on your mind over whether or not you can do what was asked. So just wanted to say it was 8
possible. 9
10
Jennifer Armer: Thank you for that suggestion. The – in Word documents, you can take 2 11
documents and compare them to get a track changes. Sometimes it looks a little funky, but 12
there is definitely room for us to explore, say, even if we're working on it in Excel to then 13
convert it into a Word document and compare the two – the original and then the updated 14
version to see if that can produce us something like what's being requested. 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: It sounds like you have a good plan. As long as it's feasible, I just 1
wanted to make sure that we discuss the feasibility because it is a big ask, but I think it would 2
be very helpful too. 3
4
Chair Akin: Thank you. Vice Chair Chang. 5
6
Vice Chair Chang: So I've kind of 2 sets of questions. One is – the first area of questions is 7
regarding how the current status is coded. In other words, is it coming in from every single 8
department? Okay, so I'm getting nods from staff. And so my piece of feedback there is that it 9
doesn't seem to be consistent across departments, which I am sure is something that Ms. Cha is 10
battling with all the time. So just a couple things that I noticed. I'm sure there's more. Mostly I 11
think that there's fewer things that are pending than are actually pending. In other words – so if 12
you look at Packet Page 22, Item C1.13.1, it talks about determining the potential for the City to 13
shared use of PAUSD facilities. And it says under staff comments, "This is an ongoing task." So 14
then my question would be why isn't it just ongoing as the completion status. And so I think 15
that it may look worse. I don't know what – it may look like we're not doing as much as we're 16
doing and so that things – it may be worth checking into some of these. Maybe I don't 17
understand what the definition of ongoing is. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: Thank you for that comment. And that is actually something that [inaudible 2
45:00] staff [inaudible] identified as something to look at in the coming year for the next round 3
to make sure that we are identifying that. Because from my perspective, when something is 4
either ongoing or completed, those are really the same bucket. It's saying, "Yes, we're doing the 5
work. There isn't something that's waiting to be done," but we want to make sure that we are 6
being consistent with how we portray that. There are some things where you do an initial effort 7
and then it is something that just becomes part of our general processes. And so it could be 8
labeled as completed. 9
10
Vice Chair Chang: Exactly. So as I went through, because where I was more focused as I was 11
reviewing this was looking at the pending because that's sort of the most concerning. If the City 12
said we wanted to do it and we haven't started doing it, is that an intentional de-prioritization? 13
Is it lack of resources or is it literally pending, like we're planning on doing it. We know it's just 14
coming later, right? So I was just sort of scanning the pending items. And there was another 15
one, for example, on Packet Page 35, L2.4.6, talking about exploring changing of the Transfer of 16
Development Rights. And it – the Staff Comments column says "The existing TDR process is 17
being evaluated as part of the Downtown Housing Plan." So to me, that would be in progress. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So again, I just think that it's not like – it – as currently presented, it makes it sound like things 1
aren't being done on many of these items and actually staff is hard at work on them. 2
3
Then my second set – area of question is sort of around the prioritization. So in certain items it 4
says this has not been started due to staff priorities. So who determines the prioritization and 5
how is the prioritization determined for all of these? 6
7
Jennifer Armer: Thank you for that question, and I think that does come back to the earlier 8
discussion of council priorities. When there are limited resources, which there always are to 9
some extent, then there is a choice. There are some things that staff can do in incorporating 10
just the way that we do our general work, but if it's a new work effort, then generally that 11
needs to be something that is directed by Council or occasionally by the city manager 12
depending on the level of the task. 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: So then, very related to that, you had mentioned that when Council's setting 15
its priorities and there's room for more, that they can look at these programs. Does the pending 16
list, actually, is that an input into the Council retreat or Council – like, is it formally part of the 17
inputs that are – for the annual prioritization that Council creates? 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: I don't know in the last few years whether it has been or not, but as I look at 2
what are the tasks for the Planning Department that are moving forward and we're looking at 3
what are some of the additional things we could potentially do, that's one of the sources of 4
information that I would bring forward. At this time, because of the Housing Element and the 5
state laws, there really hasn't been an opportunity to bring that as a suggestion for additional 6
tasks, but it is something that we've talked about for when we do. 7
8
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. Because I think maybe when this came before us last time, that was 9
one of my suggestion is to include a page of just the items because as I look at this, there was 10
one item where I said, "Ooh, we, the PTC, have actually seen something come before us where 11
it would be really beneficial for us to – for us, the City, to make progress on the item." And that 12
one was on Packet Page 21, C1.6.1, "Establish a program to facilitate continuing corporate 13
support." And so we saw the project on Cubberley, and there was some mention of potentially 14
getting corporate support for that, and it could be game changing if we were actually able to do 15
that. And so I'm not sure that Council, based on my interactions with councilmembers, I don't 16
think that they're deep in the Comp Plan. And I think that the team that – the City, everybody 17
who's in involved in the Comp Plan was very thoughtful at the time. And if we aren't then kind 18
of proactively, at the time we set goals, referring back to sort of our strategic planning and our 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
priorities – not that those are set in stone, but if we aren't reminding ourselves, then that's lost 1
information and we'd lose the value of that work, which I see so often. We put all of this work 2
into plans. Later on tonight we're going to be looking at the BPTP – the Bike Ped Plan – and then 3
yet, as we do other projects, we're not necessarily constantly referring back to it as often as we 4
should. And so I think that just the pending list might be a really good input. Thanks. 5
6
Chair Akin: Seeing no other lights and that's an excellent segue into the question I wanted to 7
ask. So I have received personally feedback from a councilmember that PTC should be acting 8
more often to maintain and modify the Comp Plan. Now, this Commission has recommended 9
modifications that were proposed by staff, but to my knowledge, we haven't initiated any 10
requests for changes. So the question I have is for our future reference. What is the process we 11
would use to do that? 12
13
Jennifer Armer: So I think there are a couple of techniques or processes that come to mind in 14
the moment. One would be if there were policies or programs that you identified as candidates 15
for update as you're doing this annual review that providing those to staff at this time or in the 16
future, that's something that since we take this report and we report it out to Council, that is a 17
way to convey those suggestions going forward. And as I said, then also as we identify things 18
that are causing a problem or could have significant benefit, we do try to identify those as 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
potential future priorities when there is capacity for Council. When Council does have their 1
priority-setting discussion, that is an opportunity for anyone from the community – Planning 2
Commissioners included – to participate and suggest, make public comment as well. So there 3
are a number of different ways. Doing it during this annual review is probably a strong 4
candidate, though this report doesn't necessarily get to them before next year's priorities, so I 5
do want to point that out, that the timing ends up being the opposite order. Though I can say, 6
as you can see how much work we are currently trying to get done and really needing to 7
prioritize the Housing Element and state law implementation, at this point, I don't believe 8
there's going to be significant capacity or much capacity to add tasks. 9
10
Chair Akin: Sure, and I didn't mean to imply that there was a long list waiting of those to be sent 11
to you. Now… 12
13
Jennifer Armer: I've got my own list. 14
15
Chair Akin: Yes. But just to understand what process we should use to do it. This is – the annual 16
review is an excellent time to do that, but we don't really have enough lead time to make that 17
work. So I think necessarily, if we had suggestions to give to you that it would be extended 18
sometime in the future after receiving the annual report. And just to recap, what we're saying is 19
the sort of semiformal process that's described in the packet for this – on Packet Page 11 if I 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
remember correctly for this item – what that really boils down to is suggestions from us to you 1
– to staff, and particularly to you, I suspect, as liaison. That's the methodology we should be 2
keeping in mind. 3
4
Jennifer Armer: Correct. That is the best process. 5
6
ACTION ITEMS 7
Public Comment is Permitted. Applicants/Appellant Teams: Fifteen (15) minutes, plus three (3) minutes rebuttal. All others: 8
Five(5) minutes per speaker. 9
10
2. Review Draft 2025 Comprehensive Plan Implementation Annual Progress Report and 11
Draft 2023-2031 Housing Element Annual Progress Report and Recommend City 12
Council Authorize Transmittal of the Reports to the Governor’s Office of Land Use 13
and Climate Innovation and Department of Housing and Community Development, 14
by April 1, 2026. CEQA Status: Not a Project. 15
16
Chair Akin: Okay. I second the many comments that had been made about the excellent work 17
here, and we've had some great suggestions for improvement. My fellow commissioners, do 18
you have anything else you would like to comment on tonight? All right. It's time for a motion. I 19
move staff's recommendation with the note that the staff report has a date that needs to be 20
corrected, but the presentation was correct. 21
22
Vice Chair Chang: Second. 23
24
Chair Akin: Mr. Tavera, would you call the roll? 25
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Samuel Tavera: Yes. Commissioner Ji? 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 4
5
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Templeton? 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 8
9
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Peterson? 10
11
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 12
13
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 16
17
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner James? 18
19
Commissioner James: Yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Samuel Tavera: Vice Chair Chang? 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 4
5
Samuel Tavera: Chair Akin? 6
7
Chair Akin: Yes. 8
9
Samuel Tavera: Motion carries, 7-0. 10
11
Kelly Cha: Thank you. 12
13
3. Palo Alto Link Program & Transit Futures Review 14
15
Chair Akin: Thank you [inaudible 55:32]. All right. Our next action item tonight is Agenda Item 16
Number 3, the Palo Alto Link Review, which, for everyone paying attention to the packet, starts 17
on page 127. So could we have the staff presentation, please? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Transportation Planning Manager Nathan Baird: Good evening, PTC commissioners. My name is 1
Nathan Baird. I am a Transportation Planning Manager in the Office of Transportation. I also 2
have Ria Hutabarat Lo here, Sylvia Star-Lack, and we also have a representative from Via, our 3
Palo Alto link, in the crowd if any specific questions for them come up. Next slide? Thank you, 4
Sam. 5
6
So a little bit of background – 2017, we have a Palo Alto Transit Vision document that kind of 7
really kicked off this whole public discussion about what our transit options are. That document 8
really focused on our shuttle systems, our – the shuttles that existed at the time and potential 9
expansions that could happen to those shuttles. Council – when they reviewed it, they really 10
suggested that we consider flex transit models. In the years after that, there was a little bit 11
more progress made on looking at the shuttle options, but then 2020 came along. We cancelled 12
our shuttle program, and then we pursued funding from VTA for an innovative transit service to 13
pursue particularly micro-transit, which was sort of taking off in the Bay Area at that time. We 14
won that funding. We began service March 7, 2023, with Via, also known as Nomad Transit. 15
We've made several refinements that I'll get to a little bit later in response to Council and the 16
public. And then this past June, Council discussed kind of the service continuation, considering 17
kind of the unknown grant funds that were kind of winding down. Next slide, Sam. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So on the 16th, when we had on the 17th the item scheduled, we were told to wind it down 1
because we were – we knew that the VTA funding was – had been all used up. We had kind of 2
an unknown status on other grants that we were pursuing. On the next day, we said it kind of 3
makes sense to extend the contract, see what the status will be on those grants that we 4
requested, and then have some conversation with the public, with PTC, with City Council about 5
what to do about our – what has been a pilot service. Next slide. 6
7
So that was all the slides real quick. Our service currently operates 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. through 8
most of the City. We don't go to the Baylands. We don't go to the Hills. It's an on-demand 9
service point to point, usually to the nearest intersection. For seniors and disabled, we do 10
provide address-to-address, curb-to-curb service – not door-to-door, but curb-to-curb – yes, 11
and we've highlighted in this map some of the more populated destinations including our 12
Caltrain, downtown, some of our medical centers, and some shopping areas. Next slide. 13
14
This was a slide that we presented to Council in June. It kind of summarizes our kind of current 15
understanding of vulnerable users and their usage of it. Please note this is not additive. Some of 16
these – some folks fall in multiple categories, but 30 percent of our users are seniors, 15 17
percent are low income, 15 percent are youth, 5 percent are people with disabilities. We also 18
have a significant number of veterans who use the service. Next slide. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Funding outlook and options. This kind of summarizes the most recent history. We – through 1
the end of this past fiscal year, June, we finalized the VTA innovative transit funds. We also 2
spent down our first Transportation for Clean Air Grant that we received. We partnered with 3
Via to write that application. That focuses on trips that replace single-occupancy vehicle trips, 4
takes VMT off the road. SRP began as a $31,000 subsidy per month. They provide the full fare 5
for all trips into and out of SRP, and then we renegotiated in the same time frame – SRP is 6
Stanford Research Park. We renegotiated after that first several months after their fiscal year 7
ended, which is on a different timeline, a percentage-based. So we went from 31K to around 35 8
to 45K per month, and it's usually – it's based on their percentage of the service that they 9
utilize. This current fiscal year, we're – we did win a second TFCA fund. Those funds were sort of 10
undersubscribed in the Bay Area, so that was made available to us as well. Those funds are 11
good through the end of this fiscal year or the following fiscal year. The current staff plan right 12
now is to utilize all those funds this fiscal year. We also have up to $600,000 from SRP again. 13
The fares are a minor percentage of the whole cost, and then we have a general fund budget of 14
250. That's the same amount that they were – City Council was originally willing to fund 15
through the end of December, but the additional grant funds we got helped us stretch that out. 16
We will utilize as little of that as possible. We really significantly lowered our spend per month 17
based on kind of Council feedback that the cost really has been an issue for us as a City. And 18
then that last column really kind of identifies the unknown funding future for us. Next slide. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So we went through kind of an extensive back-and-forth with our current provider. We also did 1
a little bit of research on shuttle costs comparatively. It's really hard to compare them. They – 2
there's some real tradeoffs in micro-transit versus fixed route, and we can talk through some of 3
that. I'm really keen on learning what you all think, what your preferences would be in terms of 4
the transit vision for the City, and what our preferences really are. There's a number of benefits 5
to the current model, but shuttle routes are different and provide some different benefits that 6
we can potentially talk through. We've also talked about what if we just subsidized via TNC 7
trips. Some – we have some of our partners who do that, Stanford Healthcare, in talks with 8
them. They do provide some trips where they just subsidize workers who work late who took 9
transit in. They'll just subsidize an Uber or Lyft ride for them, and what could that entail. And 10
there are some real tradeoffs – costs to that involved as well. Next slide. 11
12
So currently, we're really having this conversation now because City Council has not expressed 13
much support for continuing general fund subsidy to the service beyond the end of this fiscal 14
year. What amount of subsidy for Palo Alto Link or other Palo Alto-based transit is most 15
appropriate, if any? What form of transit is most desirable, shuttle routes, circulators, 16
vulnerable users focused? There's some expressed concern from Council that we've been 17
subsidizing just trips for the general public where we could focus it. In conversations with Via, 18
there's some real concern about ridership and what those impacts could be if we focused it just 19
on vulnerable users. Potentially, that really reduces some of our efficiency. So we would 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
probably end up with higher cost per trip rather than the [inaudible 64:50] efficient costs that 1
we're at right now for what is an on-demand transit system that provides a lot of coverage area 2
for us but not as much [inaudible 65:03] city mobility at select locations that a fixed route 3
would do. Next slide. 4
5
That's the end of our presentation. Really happy to take any questions. I didn't provide a good 6
recommendation here, but we are keen to bring your feedback back to City Council. If there is a 7
recommendation that the Commission can kind of come together on as Council considers these 8
same concerns, that is beneficial. 9
10
Chair Akin: Thank you, Mr. Baird. So it's time for clarifying questions pre-public comment. I see 11
we have Commissioner Dr. Peterson, Vice Chair Chang, and then Commissioner James. 12
13
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. So being the resident walker here, I don't own a 14
vehicle, so this is something I actually see the value in. I downloaded the app originally. I never 15
actually used it, but I think I'm not the target of – as you said, the goal was not to have people 16
generally using it. It was for this to be a service for segments of the community where this really 17
was their only mode of transportation. I typically like to walk. I walk pretty much everywhere in 18
town. I think everybody else does, because I see everybody else walking here with me. We have 19
a great walking path system here, but I also know not everybody is able to walk all over town, 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and I can see the value of this program and that it does get used. Do you have a metric of what 1
percentage of utilization it has? Are the drivers 100 percent of the time utilized or is there a 2
percentage of idle time? 3
4
Nathan Baird: So there's a number of different metrics that Via provides for us to kind of gauge 5
the efficiency of the service. One of the ones is number of rides provided by driver service hour. 6
Compared to similar services in similar-size cities with suburban layouts, we're doing really well. 7
8
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 9
10
Nathan Baird: We provide very high efficiency. That has been in part because we've been trying 11
to spend less, and so we do have, as I've outlaid in the report, some cost and some usability 12
concerns because of that, but we are very efficient compared to other similar services 13
[inaudible 67:40] – I think it's around 3.1, 3.2 rides provided per service hour. [Inaudible 67:50] 14
another metric they look at is the seats – books – booked seats, the percentage of the time that 15
the seats are carrying somebody that we have. That's above 50 percent or so, which is very 16
good. I know that our shuttle routes had more rides per day, but there was probably more seats 17
available as well. 18
19
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Nathan Baird: Under-utilized space. 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: So that answers the question I had, which is – this is a service that's 4
being used, that's going to be sorely missed if it's shut down. There's definitely a community 5
here that's using this. There's a lot of people that aren't. My wife's a community health nurse, 6
and she doesn't use this service. She probably should be. That's probably a demographic where 7
you'd want the community health nurse somewhat subsidized in their cost without [inaudible 8
68:47] relying on a personal vehicle, but relying on the public transportation, and this is the 9
type of service that would allow somebody that's as mobile as a community nurse to be able to 10
get to each of those individual houses of at-risk people in our community to provide that home 11
care. Another – okay. I'll hold the rest of my clarifying – my question past that clarifying 12
question. Thank you. 13
14
Chair Akin: Thank you. Vice Chair Chang. 15
16
Vice Chair Chang: So are the TFCA grants that you – that we've received – are they [inaudible 17
69:29] – we haven't been able, obviously, to apply for the future, because we don't know what 18
type of system we will have, but are they only available for a service like this or a shuttle? 19
Would they – would they be available for something like a subsidy of Uber and Lyft rides? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Nathan Baird: The TFCA program is fairly open, so yes, it does support rideshare. It does 2
support bike and ped programs. It's a – their main concern is removing vehicle miles off the 3
road. 4
5
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. So then, another question I have is – so Santa Clara County has the 6
paratransit service. Is that something that would serve [inaudible 70:20] – is that overlapping 7
with the services that we provide at all, like for the audience that is disabled for example? 8
9
Nathan Baird: I would say that the audience is similar, but the different – there is a difference 10
between the types of service that it provides. So those services are booked ahead of time, and 11
they're often used for medical trips. Some of the same popul-, some of the same folks will use 12
this for visiting friends or the library or picking up medication or – it's a broader use case for 13
similar population. Those are also more folks who are medically – have higher medical need, 14
and sometimes those will involve door-to-door help. This service does not provide door-to-door 15
help. You need to be able to have someone help you, or you can wheel – if you can wheel 16
yourself to the curb where it would pick you up, they – the drivers will help you get your 17
wheelchair into a vehicle if needed, but yes. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice Chair Chang: So are you saying that the paratransit application, like the people who would 1
actually be approved for that, is much more limited than, say, [inaudible 71:38] – so not every 2
wheelchair-bound person would be eligible for paratransit. Is that correct, or? 3
4
Nathan Baird: Or they're – they would be eligible, but not necessarily use it all the time. 5
6
Vice Chair Chang: Because paratransit's only allowed to be used for… 7
8
Nathan Baird: You have to book ahead… 9
10
Vice Chair Chang: …okay, but… 11
12
Nathan Baird: …for paratransit. 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: …can it be used for anything, including a trip to the grocery store, or… 15
16
Nathan Baird: That [inaudible 71:58]… 17
18
Vice Chair Chang: …is it only to… 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Nathan Baird: …yes. Okay. 1
2
Vice Chair Chang: …okay. Thank you. That's helpful. Thank you. 3
4
Chair Akin: So just to clarify, the answer to that last one was yes? 5
6
Nathan Baird: Yes. 7
8
Chair Akin: For the record. Yes. Commissioner James. 9
10
Commissioner James: Thank you. I guess I was sort of focused on and want to get clarification 11
of – you talked about this service is very efficient compared to other like services. And I kept 12
kind of – when I was going through [inaudible 72:27] with the numbers, I kept looking at it sort 13
of compared to private-sector rideshare, and it looked really expensive to me by comparison. It 14
felt like we were looking at – I don't want anybody to take my math, but just my back of the 15
envelope [inaudible 72:44] looked like the average trip was like 3.3 miles or something, and I 16
did the back of the envelope, and that looked like it was maybe $30 a ride or something like 17
that. And comparatively, I think you would be – even Waymo was like $10 to $15 for that 18
length, and Lyft and Uber would be much less, I think. So I guess my – I'm trying to work out this 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
like what – if we've got a certain number of dollars to spend, where can we get the most 1
efficiency out of it? So I'm trying to square that in my head. 2
3
I also had a question about the – I realize in the report, it talked about wheelchair access was 4
kind of the limitation there, and I was also interested in the VTA paratransit as filling that gap. 5
But I guess – maybe let me flip it around the other way and say – like what do you see as the 6
drawbacks to – like if we were taking the same dollars and putting it in just similar private-7
sector road – rideshare, what's the drawback to that? If we're getting more trips at a lower cost 8
and we can stopgap over here with wheelchair access on VTA, which that sounds like it's not 9
perfect. Right? It's a little less convenient. You have to think ahead. But I'd just kind of like to 10
ask in a kind of open-ended way what is – what are the gaps there that you see that we can't fill 11
with what's – other things [inaudible 74:19]. 12
13
Nathan Baird: So there's a few there I think that are pertinent. VTA – we're in the corner of the 14
VTA service area. We're at the very edge of the county, so even before 2020, they were wanting 15
to reduce the number of tri-, the number of rides that come here. So it [inaudible 74:41] – TNCs 16
can kind of fill some of that same gap, but this helps us provide a very s-, a public service, 17
whereas – we don't have any control over the fares. We don't have any control of the kind of 18
context that we provide for the drivers. The drivers are highly vetted for this public service. The 19
city branding on the vehicles gives a lot of trust for the users that are using it. Parents feel very 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
comfortable with the service, putting their kids on it. So there's a little bit more vetting, a little 1
bit more city control over how this operates. I am in very frequent contact with our provider. 2
An algorithm decided where all the stops should be at first, but we have a lot of high control 3
over those individual stops, and we frequently edit them based on user feedback. Someone will 4
say, well, this spot where it dropped me, where the algorithm dropped me the first time – the 5
next time we're able to change it. We just know that there's not quite as much high touch with 6
someone like Uber or Lyft. 7
8
I think the other real concern is the funding partnerships that we have established with 9
Stanford Research Park. Stanford Research Park has been a very good partner. They subsidize 10
the entire trip cost of every ride that they utilize, and you have to really imagine that that helps. 11
Any transit service – the more people using it, the more efficient you can be. There's some scale 12
there that really helps us spread the city funds, use our city funds more usefully and targetedly. 13
And so they're funding 35 to 45 percent of the monthly cost, and that really does help lessen 14
the – our dependency upon city funds too. Yes. So with the TNC, if we just threw money at a 15
TNC and said, we wouldn't necessarily have that partnership anymore. Oh yes. Another thing is 16
we [inaudible 77:00] – most of our fleet is EV. We have 7 EVs. We have 2 hybrid vehicles that 17
are the wheelchair accessible vehicles, and we don't have any control over the vehicle fleet 18
emissions with the TNC programs. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner James: That's all. That's all for now. Thank you. 1
2
Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 3
4
Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. I was wondering, on Packet Page 131, you have a diagram of 5
the usage of the service. For those – when I ask questions about transportation, it may sound as 6
like a broken record. Are these origin and destination trips, or is this just kind of usage? Like 7
help me understand what this diagram is. 8
9
Nathan Baird: I believe that's the hexagon… 10
11
Commissioner Ji: Yes. That's the one. 12
13
Nathan Baird: …map. Yes. So the hexagon map is useful for us to see trips that are just spread 14
out across the – our whole service area. So the darker the hexagon, the more trips that are 15
starting or originating in that hexagon. And this really kind of paints a picture of this type of 16
coverage-based area that a micro-transit serves versus a – and if you can imagine any of our 17
previous shuttle routes, where they started and where they ended, there's real good usage by 18
folks who are closest to where the stops are, but it doesn't serve the whole area. And these 19
hexagon densities will change month to month, day to day based on what's happening in the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
City. I think since 2020, we're in a much more dynamic transportation and transit world, and 1
that is a real advantage of this type of service in the kind of context that we're in. And again, at 2
the end of the service area, where trunk lines pass through our City and are potentially ending 3
here with less ridership in seats than the middle of a long VTA bus line – by the time they get to 4
the edge of the county, there's a lot of empty seats there, and so VTA since 2020 has been 5
decreasing the amount of bus service that they send to us. 6
7
Female: [Inaudible 79:19]. Can you clarify [inaudible 79:21]? 8
9
Nathan Baird: Starting or ending. Yes. 10
11
Commissioner Ji: Okay. Maybe let me get a little bit closer to where I'm going with this. I'm 12
wondering – do we know where there are very popular trips? So like for example, do we know 13
like oh, people love to go from downtown Palo Alto to the Research Park or something like 14
that? Because this map doesn’t really show kind of like those origin-destination pairs. This kind 15
of just shows a general pattern. So I was wondering if we had any information on that. In 16
particular, the way my mind is thinking about that is if we decide that a shuttle may be the 17
answer, we may want to try to route along those origin-destination pairs. So I was just 18
wondering if we had any information on that, and if so, what have we learned? 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Nathan Baird: It is really interesting to see those maps. Via has provided a number of those 1
maps for us for some of these darker hexagons. And you have to really imagine that every 2
single hot spot in our city has ridership dispersed across the city. And so coming up with a route 3
or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 like – is actually a little bit difficult for us to figure out. And Via has offered a 4
number of services to us to help us like consider that. They do provide shuttles in other places. 5
They are used to – they used to − in our scope of work − are tasked with helping us consider 6
where those might be or what kind of use they might be. But again, because of our location in 7
the county – because our Cal-, because of where our Caltrain stops and our job centers are, so 8
our train stops, our job centers, our medical facilities, those are all places that folks are going. 9
Our shopping centers. And then if you look individually at all of those hot spots, they are getting 10
trips from throughout the city and the other hot spots. 11
12
Commissioner Ji: I think that answer in and of itself was already interesting enough for me. 13
Thank you. 14
15
Chair Akin: All right. We’ll have a chance to get into this in more depth after public comments. 16
So now is a good time for those. 17
PUBLIC COMMENTS 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Chair Akin: Mr. Tavera, do we have any requests to speak? 1
2
Samuel Tavera: Yes, through the Chair, I have 1 request to speak at the moment. I would like to 3
invite Alex V. to the mic. 4
5
Chair Akin: If I can interrupt just a second. Commissioner Templeton, is this… 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 81:48]… 8
9
Chair Akin: You’re after… 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: …[inaudible 81:49]. 12
13
Chair Akin: Okay. Yes, please proceed. 14
15
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
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Alex V.: Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity to speak, Commissioners, and I want to say 1
thank you to Nathan and his team. We – I’m a – what is it – 18-year-long resident in Palo Alto, 3 2
kids, one of whom is a 23-year-old special needs boy. Went through the Palo Alto system and at 3
the end of it, it was a great experience. And at the end of it, built a really good relationship with 4
the VA up on Miranda. And we were trying to figure out how – he’s pretty severely disabled but 5
with a coach, he can go and be guided and directed. And so during his post-secondary years, he 6
developed a – they made a space for him to make coffee for people who didn’t want to pay for 7
Starbucks, basically. And these folks would come by and it became just a part of his life, a 8
contribution that he could make to the community. It’s been – what made that so good was 9
Palo Alto Link. I just want to address a couple things I heard during the general questions and 10
with all due respect, I just want to say financially in terms of your numbers about Lyft, Uber, 11
and Link, Link beats them all by – in spades. Like if I just did a little route – I just got my apps 12
going − Uber, Lyft can be $20. I can take – have my son go from our house on Louis Road all the 13
way to Miranda for $5. Nothing beats that. And that’s back and – back forth. That’s about – it 14
ends up being about $11 a day for us. 15
16
And you add that up, that can be $50 − $40 to $50 a month. But you talk Uber, you’re talking 17
hundreds of dollars. So I just want to say I use it and can testify to that. Where also we have 18
used paratransit. Paratransit is nothing in comparison; it is a tricycle compared to a Cadillac 19
with the services we’re getting with Link. They only give you a window when they can come and 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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if you’re not there, they just move. They just leave. It’s very difficult to arrange. My wife had a 1
very hard time with it. So I would say neither of those are good options. I just wanted to make 2 2
comments. I wanted to ask a couple things; one, that the committee and the transportation 3
folks would consider actually allowing coaches or caregivers of people that are riding at a 4
disabled fare, also to be able to ride at a disabled fare. Because the only reason they’re riding, is 5
to be with the person who’s disabled. They’re not using the service for another means. And – 6
shoot. If you just keep it as is, it’ll be great but I would really like – I would say we won’t even be 7
affected if they were to raise the rates if they were able to still keep them lower for special 8
needs folks and their caregivers. So I just want to give a massively strong endorsement for this 9
and would answer any questions if you want to know from somebody who actually uses the 10
service. 11
12
Chair Akin: Thank you. 13
14
Samuel Tavera: And through the Chair, I have no other public comment cards and no other 15
raised hands on Zoom. 16
17
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Chair Akin: I’m surprised. I thought we’d have more comment for this item. I have 1
Commissioner Templeton, then Peterson, Chang, and Hechtman in that order, I believe. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, Chair. I wasn’t sure whether to ask these in clarifying 4
questions or later but I wanted to hold off so we can have a little bit of a discussion here. But 5
first I want to acknowledge our public commenter. I appreciate you sharing your perspective. 6
And we definitely need to figure out that use case. So some of my comments are not going to 7
necessarily apply to that. Don’t panic; we’ll still figure this out. So how many rides do the $4.7M 8
– can you pull that slide back up? How many rides it was. 9
10
Jennifer Armer: We’re working on that… 11
12
Nathan Baird: All right. So… 13
14
Jennifer Armer: …to see if we can pull that up. 15
16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Commissioner Templeton: What Packet Page? 1
2
Nathan Baird: We’re on – I’m on Packet Page [inaudible 86:51]. I am on Packet Page 131. 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 5
6
Nathan Baird: In our Performance section. We’ve got 3,000 to 6,000 per month. Since the 7
service began through the end of October, we served 137,000 rides. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: So in 6 months, you did 137,000 rides? 10
11
Nathan Baird: No. It is… 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Two years and 6 months? 14
15
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Nathan Baird: Yes, 2 years and 6 months. 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. And that’s the $4.7M or is that an annual? 3
4
Nathan Baird: The 4.7 is through the end of this fiscal year. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: So that’s an annual fare? 7
8
Nathan Baird: It’s a… 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 87:38] cost. 11
12
Nathan Baird: That’s an annual cost. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: …of the program. Okay. 15
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
Nathan Baird: There’s a bit of an estimate in there. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: And does that include staff time or is that just the cost to… 4
5
Nathan Baird: It’s just the driver service hours. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: The reason I’m asking is I’m always going to try and challenge and try 8
to have a good discussion, so know that I appreciate and I’m really glad that you came here and 9
we’re talking about this. But – so if I were to buy an annual pass for seniors with to VTA with 10
that money, I would be able to buy over 14,000 annual passes. Do we – it feels like that’s a 11
better deal. 12
13
Nathan Baird: I would say it depends. 14
15
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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Commissioner Templeton: You don’t have to answer. I’m just going to say that. It feels like 1
that’s a better deal. So the downsides you were mentioning before concern me because we do 2
have a lot of transit options in Palo Alto and I think one of the reasons that we’re hearing from 3
VTA that they’re not as excited about North County is because we’re not using it. We’re not 4
driving the use of that. And we have also the Stanford Marguerite, which is something that 5
Stanford’s funding as well. And I’m just wondering if this program goes away, would that be 6
something that the Department of Transportation would be encouraging? So in the absence of 7
Palo Alto Link and our − we still have our goals that are stated at the beginning, which is “a 8
convenient, efficient public transit system that provides a viable alternative to driving,” would 9
be met by options like that. And you’ve mentioned several others in addition of VTA and 10
Marguerite. Is there – that’s not included in the table of options. Is that something you guys 11
have considered and would state in front of the Council that this is an option but we don’t 12
recommend it? 13
14
Nathan Baird: [Inaudible 90:07]. The Palo Alto Link doesn’t have any – doesn’t have much 15
overlap with the Marguerite. If the Marguerite served the rest of the city, I think… 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Well, it used to go to the Research Park. Does it not anymore? 18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
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1
Nathan Baird: Yes, so they also cut some of their shuttles and replaced some of the shuttles 2
with what service that they provide to us. 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: So if Palo Alto Link disappeared, they would then use their money to 5
reinstate those shuttles perhaps… 6
7
Nathan Baird: Not… 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: …potentially? We don’t know. 10
11
Nathan Baird: We don’t know. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. So yes. So that’s what – one of the things I’m thinking about 14
because this city has a pretty strong relationship with VTA, right? We’ve got a councilmember 15
on their board and this is a longstanding relationship. And if we needed – if one of the 16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
pushbacks of why don’t we just use VTA is they don’t service enough, why wouldn’t we, as a 1
city, say, “Let’s – we’ll be able to subsidize thousands of seniors and students using the bus if 2
you will increase the routes up here.” I know we have routes that go to Gunn High School. We 3
have routes that go up and down El Camino. There have been in the past, routes that go into 4
Midtown and to Mitchell Park. So I guess what I’m trying to say here is the case for not using 5
the existing infrastructure is – has not been made because we have the luxury of being able to 6
use this system that’s customized for us. And we are really enjoying it and I’m hearing that from 7
the community as well. But what could we get if we poured that into the system that exists, 8
right? And if the answer is, “No, we need to keep funding it, so people can get a cheaper Uber 9
from the Palo Alto train station to the shopping mall” − they could take the Marguerite to the 10
shopping mall; it would be fine, right? But to what extent do we have influence? 11
12
And I think that was the point that you were making that resonated the most is, “Are we able to 13
influence the frequency and the quality of the rides that people would get on VTA and the 14
Marguerite? Marguerite, more frequency. VTA, more quality. And so for the cost, I think that’s 15
something to think about. We definitely do have a gap in general for people with disabilities 16
and special needs and that’s something that sounds like we could do even better with our 17
current system. But I really want to say that if we’re having – what was it? Fifteen percent more 18
students? Was it 15 percent of the riders were students? And – what is the number of rides 19
like? Is that something that we could subsidize and have students ride the bus or… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Nathan Baird: We’ve been actively trying to discourage, particularly school trips by students. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 4
5
Nathan Baird: We’re open – yes, the Council directed that if we wanted to limit it further, we 6
could. 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: What does that mean? You don’t want students carpooling to school 9
with Palo Alto Link? 10
11
Nathan Baird: Yes, we… 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: They need to be biking? 14
15
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Nathan Baird: …would rather… 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: Is that the… 3
4
Nathan Baird: …they be… 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: …idea? 7
8
Nathan Baird: …bicycling or walking, yes. 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: So the… 11
12
Nathan Baird: Or school bus, yes. 13
14
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: …use cases that I’m thinking about are people who are at this time 1
of year staying late to do band or theater or football and biking home at 7 or 8:00 at night and 2
forgetting to put their lights on and things like that. And there are cases when it would be more 3
appropriate for them to take a ride from some other public service. So what I’m trying to say is I 4
think there are so many people in Palo Alto who enjoy riding their bikes and there are so many 5
people who enjoy – would enjoy taking the bus instead of Palo Alto Link if that was an option. 6
And the reason I’m saying that is if you really do have to spare this – if you have to cut this 7
program back, can you exchange for certain groups of users of Palo Alto Link some alternative 8
for them, such as the city could subsidize – like Stanford subsidizes the train. We could 9
subsidize the bus or whatever it might be. We’re not going to subsidize Uber; that’s very 10
expensive. I totally agree with that but we are subsidizing this. And if we’re in danger of cutting 11
it back, we should think about alternatives and systems that already exist. So for now, I’ll stop. I 12
have more for later. Thank you. 13
14
Chair Akin: Thank you. That was an insightful comment. Commissioner Peterson. 15
16
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. So I’m going to push back a little bit on that. From 17
my observation of public transit, most people prefer to take the bus and the Caltrain first just 18
because everybody likes to walk; they like the freedom of that and to not have to use the – if 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
you’re using Lyft; that’s usually the last option. So I would push back that the riders could be 1
served by a bus route simply because if they could be, they would already be using it. They 2
wouldn’t be using the service; they would be simply walking to their local bus stop and using 3
that and they probably do as a preference. Just looking at the map here, you can see that it’s 4
almost equally distributed across the entire city. People coming from individual points going to 5
clusters of businesses and service points and then riding back from those points. And what 6
that’s telling me is this is filling the last mile, which is all those gaps in the system; this is the 7
glue that fills in all those in between places that allows people who don’t have the ability to 8
drive. That this is that piece that fills in between where the bus route doesn’t go, where the 9
Caltrain doesn’t go, and the Marguerite doesn’t go, to be able to live still within that domain. 10
And then that creates a health for our community because like you said the vehicles are 11
electric, which is also helping to keep out other polluting vehicles. 12
13
A lot of the Uber and the Lyft vehicles are not well maintained. Everyone can – has ridden in 14
one has noticed half the vehicles probably shouldn’t be on the road even because they’re 15
basically overused taxis with 500,000 miles on them. Whereas now we have just in our 16
community, clean vehicles, better safe serving the community here, which I don’t think it’s a 17
service that we should be looking at cutting; I think it’s a service where we should be looking at 18
how do we fund it. Because I think it’s a time problem. It’s not that in the future, it’s not going 19
to work; it’s just that right now, it’s in that early stage startup point where it just needs still to 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
be bridged from the starting point to when it’s self-sustainable. And the key piece in that is the 1
Stanford contribution because the Stanford is going to use the general use permit negotiation, 2
which means if they’re contributing now, there’s a very good chance they’ll contribute even 3
more in the very near future when they’re negotiating their GUP. Because I think this would be 4
number one to ask Stanford what are your trips per day in and out of campus and to mitigate 5
that impact, could you contribute to our excellent community mitigation service, which is the 6
Link. And then on top of that, one of the suggestions I want to put out there is we do parking 7
mitigation; I don’t know what those TDM, TRM – what’s the acronym for that? 8
9
Female: TDM. 10
11
Commissioner Peterson: TDMs. Would businesses be willing to, as part of their TM − TDM, 12
provide a voucher, kind of like a parking voucher but instead of parking voucher, it’s a public 13
transit, a Link voucher where they contribute just like Stanford does. And then we as the 14
Planning Commission give them reduced parking requirements because they’re contributing 15
towards the Link Program, especially the medical centers. We just had one where − over here 16
on El Camino, we just gave them a TDM, which could have included the Link contribution 17
because I’m sure probably a lot of people are going to that facility; the caregivers and things 18
like that. So I see a lot of solutions here and I don’t think they’re actually that far away. I think 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
they’re just a couple steps ahead of us. And just right now, they’re not here but very soon they 1
will be. So I’ll leave it there and I’ll have more comments later. 2
3
Commissioner Akin: Is that a response in the works there or… 4
5
Female: [Inaudible 99:54]. 6
7
Commissioner Akin: Oh. Ms. Star-Lack, would you care to respond to Commissioner Peterson’s 8
suggestions about TDMs? Is this something we have used and could we make more use of it? 9
10
Transportation Planning Manager Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes, thanks for the question. We have… 11
12
Jennifer Armer: Do you want to introduce yourself? 13
14
Sylvia Star-Lack: Oh, sorry. Sylvia Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager. Because we 15
haven’t – because this service is a pilot, we have been hesitant to write it into TDM programs. 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
We – if we have or if they – if it appears in a TDM program, it’s part of what the existing 1
conditions are for the current condition. And, of course, if it’s existing when a building comes 2
on line, great, they can use it. But we’re not going to rely on it at this point because it’s – I mean 3
Council has told us to wind it down. So I’m not going to do that. Thanks. 4
5
Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson, does that give you the context you’re looking for? 6
7
Commissioner Peterson: It does. So it’s again, we’re looking for a solution for how do we bridge 8
it because they’re – with Stanford funding, now we have TDM funding that is also – everyone 9
waits to see if something’s successful before you buy in. But it sounds like if the program 10
pencils out, we’ve got a lot of additional funding sources that are unutilized. 11
12
Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner. Vice Chair Chang. 13
14
Jennifer Armer: We’ll get you a new one. 15
16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice Chair Chang: All right. This one seems to be working. Mr. Baird, could you pull up the chart 1
that showed the cost per year and then the final right-most column. There was a slide on it. The 2
right-most column had kind of question marks. 3
4
Nathan Baird: Yes, I think Sam will be right back and he can bring it up. But I can – the cost 5
when we first started were about – I think were estimated – they were running about nearly 6
$1.8M per year. 7
8
Vice Chair Chang: So… 9
10
Nathan Baird: [Inaudible 102:15]. 11
12
Vice Chair Chang: …the cost that I’m specifically interested in is cost to the city. What we were 13
not able to have offset by either grants or by Stanford contribution. 14
15
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
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Nathan Baird: Yes, so it’s less than 10 percent over the course of the 2½ years that we’ve been 1
piloting the program. 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: So – because I remember seeing something about 200 – 0 to $250K or 4
something like that. 5
6
Nathan Baird: So we have up to $250K of general funds… 7
8
Vice Chair Chang: So that’s the cost… 9
10
Nathan Baird: …designated… 11
12
Vice Chair Chang: …to the city this year? 13
14
Nathan Baird: For this – yes, this year. 15
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1
Vice Chair Chang: And… 2
3
Nathan Baird: But we will likely not spend very much of that either. So over the course of the 4
2½ years through the end of June 2026, the cost to the city will likely be in a 5 percent or less 5
range over the course of the whole pilot. 6
7
Vice Chair Chang: And then if we continued it next year, how much would it be out of the 8
general fund? 9
10
Nathan Baird: So that’s where the big question marks are. 11
12
Vice Chair Chang: Yes, that’s why I wanted to see… 13
14
Nathan Baird: Yes, so… 15
16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Vice Chair Chang: Oh, there we go. 1
2
Nathan Baird: Thank you, Sam. Yes, so Stanford Research Park – they give us an up to amount 3
but they spend less than that because they will only spend based on their usage per month. 4
And so we’ve been in about the 85 to 95K per month spend currently. When we began the 5
service, we were spending much more per month because we were concerned about – very 6
concerned about some of the service cost or the number of people that were missing rides; we 7
were trying to keep that down but because we saw the funding – the grant funding coming to 8
an end, because we knew City Council has been very concerned about the monthly spend, 9
we’ve been asking Via to get their spend down. They still will try to allocate their driver hours to 10
the busiest times. But yes, we – the report lays out some of those kind of costs and benefits 11
that we’ve gone through. But at a large level, the first full fiscal year of the service was 1.5 per 12
year. The next one, we got it down to 1.2. And that’s about where we are now. 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. So it’s 1.2 and depending on if we get a grant or not, it might – that 15
might shave another $450K off of that. Is that what we’re saying? [Inaudible 104:50]… 16
17
Nathan Baird: We did get the – a second TFCA grant. 18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
Vice Chair Chang: I know but – so for the future if we were to – I’m just trying to understand 2
like what is it that City Council is not willing to spend? It’s the $250K that City Council is not 3
willing to spend, is that correct? 4
5
Chief Transportation Official Rio Lo: Well, I think – Rio Lo, Chief Transportation Official. When 6
Council was deliberating on this, it wasn’t clear to them how much Stanford was subsidizing. So 7
they – what they were not willing to do was spend $1.1M. 8
9
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. So that’s what’s – because I think that – so my point of feedback – 10
because I’m confused on it too and was confused on it and had run some quick back-of-the- 11
envelope numbers, thinking, “Oh, this is not a big deal if we were to subsidize a Lyft or Uber.” 12
And I hear loud and clear what the member of the public said, which is out of pocket for his 13
family, paying for a Lyft or Uber is too much. So I – but what I was trying to understand is how 14
much would it actually cost for just the vulnerable population rides, right? Because there’s a 15
whole bunch of these rides that are just average people using this. And if what we’re really 16
trying to do is – and this is something up for discussion. What is our real goal? If part of our goal 17
is to serve these vulnerable populations, how much would it actually cost to pay for just an 18
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Uber and Lyft rides for that population? And so it’s not clear like when we keep saying the 1
$1.2M price tag; that’s not really the price tag to the City of Palo Alto. 2
3
And I think that’s really important to understand. It’s really important for us to understand 4
because when Commissioner Templeton talks about being able to buy 14,000 VTA passes, 5
which is what I thought we could do, based on my reading of the packet; that’s actually not true 6
because we can’t use the up to $600K that Stanford is forking into it to pay for those VTA 7
passes. And so that was not clearly – like I didn’t get that and now I do. All that said, from a big 8
picture, kind of like how functional is the service? As a mode of public transportation, I’m really 9
worried that it is not a viable service for several reasons. The first is that if 1 in 5 times, you’re 10
trying to ride the bus, the bus just didn’t show up, that wouldn’t work. But you just can’t use 11
the bus anymore and you don’t know when that might be. And we definitely saw the public 12
comments coming in about that problem as we’ve scaled back service. And so it’s… 13
14
Male: [Inaudible 107:39]. 15
16
Vice Chair Chang: No. Sorry. With – thank you for the clarification. That’s not a problem that the 17
buses have and although you certainly hear about it from coll-, like I would hear about it from 18
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fellow commuters all the time. If the train was late, if the bus was late, you hear about it. It’s a 1
big deal. So if – and it’s not 1 in 5 of the time. So for this service, I’m worried about that 2
because people can’t really rely on it unless they have a lot of flexibility in their schedule. 3
Secondly, like students are blacked out from it, essentially. Like intentionally blacked out from 4
it. And so it doesn’t − in terms of that initial goal of sort of a public transit system that takes 5
cars off the street, it might do it for a subset of people but it doesn’t necessarily meet that need 6
overall. I’m really glad we did the pilot though. And then finally, it’s $26 a trip. Like if you were 7
to say, “Do you want to pay $26 to get from point A to point B in Palo Alto?” Like nobody would 8
go for that. And so that means that if Palo Alto is subsidizing it, Palo Alto needs to be getting a 9
significant benefit from it. For example, like viable public transit for people who don’t have cars, 10
which I don’t – again, I question that. Or too like taking a substantial number of vehicles off the 11
street, which given the number of rides that it’s doing, it’s not necessarily doing that either. 12
13
So I am worried about that. Initially, as I was – without fully understanding the cost to Palo Alto 14
picture, I was thinking, “Okay. Well maybe if what we’re really worried about in terms of 15
cancelling this pilot is serving those vulnerable populations, what’s another way that we could 16
do that?” Which is why I was asking the question in clarifying questions about paratransit and – 17
so I was thinking maybe some combination of paratransit plus city subsidy of TNC would be a 18
way for us to spend less money overall. I’m not totally clear on that necessarily because if I – in 19
my quick back of the envelope that I did last night, I was looking at like the 53 percent 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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vulnerable population, average population of – or average number of rides is like 4,500 a year, 1
right? Because you said 3 to 6,000 – sorry, 4500 a month because you said it’s somewhere 2
between 3 and 6,000 a month. And the number I came up with was something slightly under 3
half a million. 4
5
And I thought, “Oh, great. That’s way less than 1.2M. The problem with that analysis that I did is 6
Palo Alto is not spending that much money right now because it’s been so heavily subsidized. 7
So I’m not sure I have the solution for this but I do think that we have a – like it’s not really 8
meeting the goals. And what we need to do is figure out how we meet the needs of the 9
vulnerable audience. And then final question, is – right now, how are we able to identify that 10
the rider is disabled or a senior or part of a vulnerable population? 11
12
Nathan Baird: So when you open the app or you call a booking agent via a phone line, you 13
identify yourself. Within app, there’s a discounted fares section where you toggle those on. I 14
have talked to many seniors and disabled about how to do that. 15
16
Vice Chair Chang: And is it just an… 17
18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Nathan Baird: But it is [inaudible 111:24]. 1
2
Vice Chair Chang: …honor system thing? 3
4
Nathan Baird: Yes, it’s just self-selection. We talked – they – Via has talked about – they do 5
have some capacity to take some – their product team would have to do it. We could do some 6
means testing – required means testing but you do – there’s some costs involved with that and 7
sometimes it just becomes a prohibition to service. 8
9
Vice Chair Chang: Right. No, that’s actually very helpful because in that world where let’s say 10
we did as Palo Alto decide to subsidize TNC for vulnerable audiences, how would we determine 11
who’s vulnerable. And there’s quite an administrative burden potentially there. So right now, 12
it’s an honor system issue. I mean that’s how we’re gathering the data. Thank you. Thank you 13
for that clarification. Okay. Those are my thoughts for now. 14
15
Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman. 16
17
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Commissioner Hechtman: So I’ve heard a lot from my fellow commissioners that resonates with 1
me. I think Palo Alto Link is a really noble idea that is meeting economic reality as our initial 2
pilot funding is finished. Public transit is subsidized transit. I think that’s true everywhere in the 3
U.S. I’ve heard there are some places overseas where it’s actually paying for itself but we 4
haven’t figured that out. And this particular system, Palo Alto Link, the subsidy, according to the 5
staff report, is 90 percent. So the $4 standard fare that somebody pays for a ride, that ride is 6
actually costing $40. They’re just paying a $4 share of it and this amalgamation of subsidies is 7
paying the other 36. And so actually the question I walked in here with, which Mr. Baird 8
answered in his staff report before I could answer it, is what is the appetite of our City Council 9
to have the general fund cover all or a big chunk of this cost going forward? Because maybe we 10
can count on Stanford if the program suits them but these other grants – I was not encouraged 11
by the staff report that yes, these are pretty likely to be continued or extended or in a different 12
name. And so it’s really falling back to Palo Alto to decide if it wants to subsidize this program 13
and in a situation where the Council has indicated we don’t want to put a lot of money into this. 14
15
And so my thinking is that in this report that you brought to us, we’ve sort of looked broadly at 16
all the possibilities. I think we need to condense and focus this on what the Vice Chair described 17
as the most vulnerable population. And to me, that would be a combination of the low-income 18
people, people who legitimately can’t afford the $20 Uber, and I think there’s a segment of the 19
disabled population that the market ride share doesn’t work for. I don’t really understand that 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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but that knowledge base is out there. On Packet Page 131, I was really surprised to read that of 1
the ridership over the history of this program, 57 percent of the riders are less than $100K, 2
which means 43 percent, I think, earn more than $100K. And while I understand why somebody 3
making over $100K would love a deeply-discounted fare, we shouldn’t be providing that. They 4
should be excluded. I do think that in a income-based and disability-based scenario, there 5
would be an administrative cost to qualify people very similar to our housing for below-market 6
rate. So there will be a cost to that. And then we have to sort of figure out whether if we shrink 7
it to that level, is Stanford a participant? Because maybe not. 8
9
But – and then we have to decide, “Well, how much would we have to expand it to get their up 10
to $600K and is it worth it?” I mean if we have to expand it to get their $600K to the point 11
where it costs us another $200K beyond if we exclude them, then those are decisions that the 12
Council has to make. And so what I’m thinking is we need to focus in on this most vulnerable, 13
what it would cost to run Palo Alto Link just for that, and then this comparison of how much of 14
that would we more efficiently spend our money by handing out vouchers for the market-rate 15
providers, and then what’s left. What is the most cost efficient without Stanford and then how 16
can we skinny this down most cost efficiently with Stanford? What ridership do we have to 17
include to get them to continue to contribute? So that’s my thought in how to narrow this 18
down. And then have a more focused approach to decide whether any model is going to be 19
workable going forward. Thanks. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Ji. Then Commissioner Templeton. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair, and thank you other commissioners for your insightful 4
comments. I also kind of want to approach this from a little bit of a personal level. So I actually 5
when I was growing up here took the Crosstown Shuttle. So the previous iteration of where 6
we’re talking about today. So just to kind of like map in your head, I went to Fairmeadow and 7
then I did swim team that’s kind of like by the VA. So that was kind of my route going back and 8
forth through here. And in the early stage of the Crosstown Shuttle, there existed a route that 9
went all the way down past Gunn and then at some point it ended up only going kind of 10
through JLS and didn’t end up going down that route. But – and so my grandfather would take 11
me to swim practice every day after school. And we loved taking the bus but when the bus no 12
longer served it, we biked it, like starting from maybe like age 8, age 9, and to be honest I 13
couldn’t really tell you a difference. I – one day I was on the bus and the other day I was on a 14
bike. And I think that the conversation around kind of like the other use cases – I want to 15
hearken back to Commissioner Templeton’s comment, which is we actually have a lot of 16
different services that cover the city. 17
18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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And as like a child, where my grandfather could not drive and then I obviously as a child could 1
not drive, leveraged many of these different services. So I have taken the Marguerite from like 2
the VA Hospital to downtown. I have taken the VTA bus that goes from downtown – the 21 that 3
goes through Middlefield over to this side of town and took the Crosstown shuttle when that 4
was an option. And then when I grew older, I biked. I biked everywhere. I didn’t even get a 5
driver’s license until after I turned 18 because in the city, I didn’t feel like I needed it between 6
buses, putting my bike on the bus and biking from my last kind of like the last mile and walking, 7
especially with the weather, right? Like I never really felt like I needed this service. And kind of 8
like – that’s a lot of what I grew up with. But kind of looking at the current state of 9
transportation services in our area, I do – the Marguerite still does service a line that goes kind 10
of from the Gunn-ish area via Stanford to downtown. They do have a shopping express bus that 11
goes on El Camino. My grandfather now lives in Lytton Gardens in kind of on the downtown 12
side and he uses the senior subsidized pass to come to my house. He is 91. He will walk to the 13
bus station and he will take the bus, which is honestly so impressive. 14
15
But I think that my – like my family has really grown up using all existing services that existed 16
before this point-to-point service and all the existing services are still there. So I just kind of 17
wanted to provide a personal anecdote about how all these services intersect. I also want to 18
say that the VTA does have a coup-, like for example, that 21 line is similar-ish to how the 19
Crosstown line used to go, kind of like around − through downtown, through Middlefield, and 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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then around the back there. So I think that’s pretty similar to what the Crosstown Shuttle used 1
to do. So I kind of wanted to talk briefly about that. And then I also wanted to kind of think a 2
little bit more through what it’s like to be a student right now and kind of the different options 3
for there. As a high school student, I’ve – practice ended at 9:30, [inaudible 121:44]. So that’s 4
kind of the current reality for those – current reality for me. But I have a couple of my neighbors 5
whose kids are like high school or kind of on the later side and they actually do take the Link but 6
it’s because they don’t feel like walking .7 miles. They’ll be like, “Oh, I’ll take the Link from 7
Wilkie Way to Mitchell Park Community Center,” which is quite short. Walking maybe 30 8
minutes if you’re kind of on the slower side. If you’re biking, it’s probably like 5, somewhere in 9
that ballpark, right? 10
11
And so I do question, like if – and they tell me they take the Link pretty frequently, right? And 12
so I wonder if the service went away, would they just get on their bike and bike the 5 minutes? 13
My guess is probably yes, right? And this I guess is a little bit of [inaudible 122:46] to our next 14
item where we’re going to make it easier to bike around town. But I do think that there exists a 15
large swathe of population who’s using this service that probably wouldn’t be that impacted if 16
it kind of just went away on its own in June 2026. That being said, I really want to say that I am 17
listening to the community about the vulnerable populations and I want to like exclude all of 18
that from my discussion. I’m just saying, as Commissioner Hechtman pointed out the 43 19
percent of people that are taking this – that probably have some other method to get around. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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So I kind of want to end my comment about that for now. I also had a question, Mr. Baird, 1
about the question mark slide. I guess we have a lot of questions about the question marks. Do 2
you mind pulling that up? 3
4
Nathan Baird: Thanks, Sam. 5
6
Commissioner Ji: So can you just clarify for me again the TFCA grant, what does that cover? You 7
said that it kind of can cover a lot of things, like TNC subsidies, bike stuff, like kind of – can you 8
tell me a little bit more about what other cities have done as well for this? 9
10
Nathan Baird: The best option for that probably is to go to their website and just look at some 11
of their projects but it has covered a wide range of different kinds of capital projects to 12
programs. 13
14
Commissioner Ji: Sure. I… 15
16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
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Nathan Baird: Sylvia might have more to add – more context. 1
2
Rio Lo: Yes, some of the things that is covered in other cities – new bicycle facilities, bike racks, 3
signal modification projects; it’s a very wide range of things, anything that reduces emissions. 4
5
Commissioner Ji: So specifically, I remember that you mentioned in the clarifying questions 6
portion that it would cover TNC subsidies, is that correct? 7
8
Nathan Baird: It could. 9
10
Rio Lo: Maybe. 11
12
Nathan Baird: Maybe. 13
14
Rio Lo: I think that some TNCs are really equivalent to a single-occupant vehicle. And so I 15
believe that if we were to make a case for that we would have to restrict it to the pooled TNC… 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
Commissioner Ji: [Inaudible 125:06]. 2
3
Rio Lo: …rides. 4
5
Commissioner Ji: Sure. 6
7
Rio Lo: Yes. 8
9
Commissioner Ji: I think that makes sense but I kind of want to talk a little bit about the back-of- 10
the-napkin math that Vice Chair Chang had mentioned, which comes out to about $450K, I 11
believe, for the subsidies that you had provided. And look, there’s a number that’s about 12
$450K; that’s the TFCA grant here. So I think that there is some options in which potentially if 13
we decided that we wanted to instead subsidize TNC pool for vulnerable populations, the TFCA 14
grant could capture all of that from a cost perspective and the city may have to pay zero and we 15
may not have to actually work with Stanford. But again, lots of question marks. That’s why this 16
slide is here. And I’ll end my comments for now. 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
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1
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Templeton. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. Don’t touch that slide. When you say that the TFCA 4
grants could be used to improve bike facilities and signals and things like that, does that mean 5
using it here is taking away from our ability to use it elsewhere? 6
7
Rio Lo: No, the TFCA grant is a competitive grant, so we would need to apply for whatever we 8
can – I mean we could potentially apply for multiple projects. 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: I’m sorry. I misunderstood what you said. So this money is not a pool 11
of money to be used for various different transportation initiatives; it is potentially pulling from 12
that but we’re using it for this and only this, is that what you’re saying? 13
14
Rio Lo: Correct. We applied… 15
16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Commissioner Templeton: Are we also applying for all those other things? 1
2
Rio Lo: We could do in coming years. 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: So not yet? 5
6
Rio Lo: I’ve only been here a few months, so I’m not quite sure… 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: Well, I… 9
10
Rio Lo: …what we applied for in the past… 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: I’m looking at Sylvia, so. I wonder if she might know. I won’t put you 13
on the spot. You don’t have to answer. But that’s something I want to echo what Commissioner 14
Ji was saying about understanding the way that people will find a way to get to where they 15
need to go and if we – if this program does end, I encourage the Department of Transportation 16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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to recapture that money for other projects for the city; it sounds like a good source of funding 1
transportation initiatives. I also want to point out that Commissioner Ji has a career in 2
transportation and I want to just ask us to think about the importance of being able to 3
experience all sorts of different modes of transit and influence younger people to do more 4
participation in public transit and other kinds of activities. Sorry to put you on the spot but 5
that’s exactly why I am going to go back to saying I really hope the Department of 6
Transportation will advocate seriously to expand VTA services here and make it easier for 7
people to use them, especially young people. Because I know they will take their bikes to school 8
and if they have to come home late and they want to throw their bike on the bus and get home, 9
it’d be great if they could do that. Now I understand that doesn’t exactly address what’s 10
happening here, so I want to encourage the city to think about the problem one level up. 11
12
Right now, we’re talking about Palo Alto Link, we’re talking about direction from the city to 13
wind it down, and we’re also trying to talk about – and a lot of us are looking ahead. What 14
alternatives do we have? How do we make this not a crisis? Because it has been a good 15
program. People have enjoyed it. But the reality is the reality. It’s going to – it’s pretty 16
expensive. One more thing I’m going to throw out there and this is purely presentation; this is 17
not policy. What is one of the places you’ve said this program doesn’t go? It’s on every single 18
slide. 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Nathan Baird: I apologize for the quality of the pictures. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: I love the pictures. Mostly they’re… 4
5
Nathan Baird: The pictures are lovely; that’s why they’re there. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: They – but every time I look… 8
9
Nathan Baird: Yes. 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: So as you go on with Council and other commissions like… 12
13
Nathan Baird: I have lots of Palo Alto Link photos on my phone. 14
15
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: That’s all I’m saying, Yes. 1
2
Nathan Baird: I will get [inaudible 129:57]… 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: I tease. I jest. I just want to lighten the mood here. But seriously, the 5
problems that you’re solving with this program exists. They will not change whether this 6
program changes or not and the leadership that you’re providing of trying to figure out how to 7
solve these problems – Link is one way only. And so I just want to say that we really appreciate 8
the work you’re doing and I hope that you’re not interpreting any of this kind of trying to come 9
to terms with reality as not recognizing that. So. All right. Thank you. 10
11
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Peterson. And then I have a few questions. 12
13
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. So I still see this not as a glass half empty and a place 14
to pour out the rest of the water but a place where the glass is half full and to figure out how to 15
fill up the rest of the way. And if we look to the rest of the world, I think we would notice that 16
rideshare has become pretty significant. And I don’t think that us going the opposite direction 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and going back to a non-rideshare world is necessarily the solution. It seems like us providing 1
our own subsidized rideshare within the rideshare network is probably the way of the future 2
and I think the cost of rideshare is dropping as we go forward. So I have 2 questions on that. 3
One is what’s the increase year over year in ridership? Is this doubling from the first year to the 4
second to the third? 5
6
Nathan Baird: I don’t have that. I do not have that off the top of my head. I know that we’ve 7
had steady growth the entire time. I might ask Via staff, if they’re still here. Do you… 8
9
Male: Approximately… 10
11
Jennifer Armer: Do you want to speak [inaudible 131:51]? And introduce yourself. 12
13
Tom Shukareff, Vice President of Partnerships at Via Transportations: Hello. I am Tom Shukareff 14
with Via. Sorry. You’re correct. It is approximately doubled between year 1 and year 2. But, of 15
course, that trajectory of growth was not sustainable due to funding, of course. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: Right. Okay. So I spent some time at Stanford StartX and the one thing 1
I learned was when something doubles, and it looks like this would continue to double, that’s a 2
pretty good growth rate. That’s – usually means something is sustainable and it’s going to 3
pencil out at some point. That’s just basics startup 101. So this already has good growth, so it 4
checks that box. And then the other one is startup costs; a civil engineer in construction, 5
mobilization costs, and stuff like that is always a big thing. So I’ve noticed you have a large fleet 6
of electric vehicles, so those are already purchased. So if those are leased or – okay. Is the – was 7
that an initial capital expenditure to start up on those and that’s lower to maintain? 8
9
Nathan Baird: Yes. 10
11
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. So we’ve already incurred the pain of starting the program. And 12
so now we’re benefiting from the program and its life cycle as it’s growing. So the data set that 13
we’re looking at here is the startup cost, not the cost of maintaining the program, which is just 14
a very different scenario. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 133:21]. 17
18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: He answered it. It’s doubling. 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 133:24]. 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: And the startup cost has already been incurred. Thank you. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: So just to follow up, that’s only startup costs. This is what – because 7
that’s not what I read in this, so l want you to answer that. 8
9
Nathan Baird: Let me be clear. In February, we paid $91K of startup costs. And I believe the 10
ongoing leases and ongoing maintenance of the vehicles are included in the cost per ride, cost 11
per month that we incur moving forward. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: So that’s ongoing? 14
15
Nathan Baird: Yes. 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: So there’s not some mysterious prepaid costs that we’re going to be 2
losing? This is all baked into your ongoing projection. Thank you. 3
4
Chair Akin: All right. Thank you all. Fortunately, a lot of the issues that I had planned to discuss 5
have already been covered. But there are some things that I think are still of interest. For 6
nearby cities that we believe have successful transportation services that are close analogs to 7
Link, do we know how those are being funded? 8
9
Nathan Baird: My understanding is every city that has these kinds of programs is contributing 10
some amount and they also have relied heavily on partnership funding. So it’s similar. And – I 11
don’t know. 12
13
Chair Akin: Do they have viability issues that we know of? 14
15
Nathan Baird: Yes. I mean our cost per trip is lower than all of theirs. But again, we have higher 16
wait times, more seat unavailable messages. 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Okay. One thing that struck me as I was looking through your report is that our 2
partners seem to − let’s just say they have little enthusiasm for fixed-route systems. There 3
could be several reasons for that. I was curious if we knew why they have retreated from 4
previous fixed-route systems. 5
6
Nathan Baird: I would be interested to hear what some of my colleagues say, but I know that at 7
2020, our shuttle services had been declining. So 2017, 2018, 2019, ridership in fixed routes 8
was falling. Post-Covid − current – the world that we’re in now, transit is at a fiscal cliff across 9
the bay area. There hasn’t been much federal interest thus far. 10
11
Chair Akin: So our best guess is declining ridership and the second best guess might be fewer 12
subsidies. 13
14
Nathan Baird: Fewer subsidies. Everybody’s kind of squeezed. We discontinued our shuttles at 15
the same time that Stanford also discontinued theirs. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Yes. So where I was going with this was I was trying to figure out whether I could 1
carve the problem down to smaller problems per Commissioner Hechtman’s suggestion. And 2
where I was heading with that was − well, it seems like the geometry of demand is such that the 3
fixed-route systems are not viable anymore, that we have a lot of star topologies where people 4
are coming into a single place or leaving from a single place but those high-density areas are 5
not necessarily good nodes on a route. I believe that’s what I heard you say earlier. So that 6
suggests to me that whatever solution we adopt, that some kind of approximately point-to-7
point system needs to be a major part of it. And whether that ends up being TNC based or not 8
depends on a lot of the other issues that have already been discussed. 9
10
But there was one more thing that I wanted to throw into that mix, which is that the service 11
area limitations go away. If service area limitations are a factor that are preventing Link from 12
acquiring more ridership, then that would be a problem that the TNCs would not face. So 13
subsidizing TNCs might be a more effective solution given that that constraint doesn’t exist. For 14
the benefit of my fellow commissioners, I asked Mr. Baird if – in a note to him directly – 15
whether you had considered dynamic pricing. So I just thought I’d give you a chance to 16
comment on that, so that everyone could hear the reply. 17
18
Nathan Baird: We have not considered dynamic pricing. 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Yes… 2
3
Nathan Baird: I’m not very aware of any other system that has similarly. 4
5
Chair Akin: I’m not necessarily advocating that; I just wanted to know if that were a funding 6
vehicle that might be worth exploring. Offhand comment, for our future, driver vetting may not 7
be a concern if Waymo succeeds, and they are only one of many potentially driverless 8
solutions. That does not solve the problems of the special needs community. So we have to 9
think about other solutions for that. And I think that’s everything I had on my list that has not 10
already been covered by someone else. So I have next comments from Vice Chair Chang. And 11
then Commissioner Templeton. 12
13
Vice Chair Chang: So I just wanted to comment on 2 things from – that other commissioners 14
had spoken about. The first is I’m − unlike Commissioner Akin, I’m not convinced that shuttle 15
route, like route-based public transportation is dead. Because – again, it depends on what the 16
City’s goals are, like what are our goals and how much are we willing to pay for it? Because 17
when I was running the numbers for the old Crosstown Shuttle system, the cost per ride there 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
was $8 a ride − or $8.40 a ride. So if you add inflation – I don’t know. It’s something like $11 a 1
ride. That was back then. I don’t – it’s hard to know what the demand would be like for that 2
now. And that type of service meets a different demand. No, it’s not door-to-door but it would 3
cut down the distance. Like when kids are traveling with their cellos, which they cannot put on 4
a bike or sometime – I just think that there’s other use cases. And it doesn’t necessarily make it 5
so that you can go from point to point, door-to-door but it certainly cuts down the distance a 6
lot to make it so that at least able-bodied people are able to walk a shorter distance. So like the 7
example from Commissioner Ji. So it’s hard for me to say that that’s not – that that’s dead. It 8
just depends on what our goals are, how much traffic we’re trying to remove from this. But 9
what are the goals? 10
11
Is it getting cleaner air, is it removing cars from our streets, is it – or is it serving vulnerable 12
populations? And then in response to what Commissioner Peterson said about this is just 13
startup costs. My – I want to clarify my understanding. The cost per year that we’re sho-, we 14
paid $100K, like $90K, I believe. Mr. Baird, is that what you said? In startup costs. Everything 15
else here is ongoing costs. And so if it’s costing us $26 a trip; it’s not startup 101. Like if it’s – if 16
every additional unit that you sell causes you to lose money, then selling more causes you to 17
lose more money. It doesn’t – so this is not an issue of not getting up to capacity, meaning 18
we’ve seen that the system is at times beyond capacity, like one-fifth of the time, there’s no 19
seats available. So we’re kind of like at the limit. The only way to increase capacity would be to 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
increase the fleet. Now there are times – there’s obviously peak usage times but just it’s the 1
nature of the system. So this is like a money-losing thing and if we get more successful at it, we 2
lose more money. And so that’s – so I disagree with you there, Commissioner Peterson. I’m not 3
sure that this is a issue of it just not getting enough demand, like we can’t even meet our 4
demand at times. So I just wanted to make those 2 points. I think – I don’t think it’s a viable 5
system, unfortunately. 6
7
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Templeton. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. Do we have the ability to look at that hexagon slide? Is 10
that something we can pull up? 11
12
Nathan Baird: Oh. It’s in the Packet Page 131. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. And I love it and I really appreciate you including this. 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Nathan Baird: It’s not in the slides unfortunately. 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: That’s okay. We can… 3
4
Nathan Baird: But it’s in the Packet Page 131. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: …look at it in the packet. Thank you for providing this because it’s so 7
interesting and I think it answers – well, for me, it leads me to believe that routes are viable. So 8
I wanted to look at it. But for the benefits of the commissioners, it’s on Packet Page 131, while 9
we pull that up. We got it? 10
11
Male: [Inaudible 144:22]. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: It loves graphics so much. 14
15
Jennifer Armer: We’re working on bringing it up but it – the… 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: We need the [inaudible 144:28]. 2
3
Jennifer Armer: …computer’s taking its time. Yes, exactly. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. So – well, if you do have it in front of you, I want to say it’s very 6
clear where Bus Route 22 is. Very clear. It’s very clear where Gunn High School and the VA are. 7
And it’s very clear where Edgewood and Midtown are. And if we had a shuttle that was doing 8
shuttle routes similar to ones we used to have, those are the places where people would go. 9
And so again, I just want to validate the work that you have been doing for so many years and 10
trying to look at this and understand if it is there – if you build it, will people come, right? But 11
that’s – still loading? 12
13
Samuel Tavera: Yes. [Inaudible 145:24]. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: So that’s what I’m trying – what I see when I look at this map. I see 16
it’s very clear where the destinations are. And if you look at this little area where it says, 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
‘residential,’ that is code for this service doesn’t drive me all the way into Stanford, right? So 1
that’s something that would be addressed by the Marguerite. So I think there’s – thank you so 2
much. That’s perfect. Yes, if you want to zoom in on that map. The 22 is the dark blue. Right 3
down the middle, that’s El Camino Real. That’s a destination for many people that is currently 4
properly frequently served; I want to say fewer than 10 minutes between buses by the VTA. 5
And the Research Park and the VA and Gunn definitely are desirable destinations that we could 6
serve with a bus route of our own, although there are other bus systems that go there. 7
Midtown, Edgewood, and then, of course, downtown, which is the transit center right where 8
the train station is. Thank you. So I think if we look at this as a heat map, you could put a pin in 9
where bus stops should be. It’d be where these hot areas are and that would be a route. 10
11
Now the question is can we serve that route frequently enough? Because one thing we’re 12
getting is − on demand means you can go any time between 7 and 7. So probably the shuttle 13
wouldn’t run that frequently. I know when it was here, it sure didn’t, right? So that’s something 14
we’d have to really understand. So if you do bring that as an option – because I see it on that 15
list – it’d be interesting to know how do you do that at a frequency that’s useful. We’re 16
certainly not going to be 10 minutes apart or 15 minutes apart or half an hour apart. Could you 17
do it for an hour a part? Like I don’t know. And that would be helpful in looking at alternatives 18
to mitigate if this program is discontinued. Thank you so much. 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson. Then Commissioner Ji. 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. Let’s leave that graphic up. And can I have – I want 4
to draw on this, which will just take 30 seconds here. 5
6
Male: [Inaudible 147:59]. 7
8
Commissioner Peterson: Right. We’ll try and figure out. 9
10
Commissioner James: I can draw. 11
12
Commissioner Peterson: You can draw. Okay. 13
14
Commissioner James: I will draw [inaudible 148:05]. 15
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Peterson: [Inaudible 148:07]. Good. Let’s do an X/Y coordinate here. Not 2
necessarily on the graph here but just I’m going to do a rate of growth. So that’s why I need an 3
X/Y. 4
5
Male: [Inaudible 148:20]. 6
7
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 8
9
Male: Okay, I see. 10
11
Commissioner Peterson: Yes, there you go. X and Y. Okay. And just draw a 45-degree line going 12
to the right. So there’s ridership increasing. And then give a different color. 13
14
Commissioner James: [Inaudible 148:36]. 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: It’s good enough. We get the idea. Pick a blue or a green or something. 1
And then just draw a horizontal and we’ll call this dollars. And then give it a step down. Give it 2
like year 1, horizontal, step it down, year 2. Just a horizontal line. See if it shows up there. There 3
you go. And just draw another one above that to the left. 4
5
Commissioner James: [Inaudible 149:01]. 6
7
Jennifer Armer: If I may, Commissioner Peterson, I would guess that what you’re trying to get at 8
with this, is that as the cost reduces over time, at some point, there is an intersection between 9
the ridership and… 10
11
Commissioner Peterson: Well, I… 12
13
Jennifer Armer: …the cost. 14
15
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: …actually agree with the Vice Chair. I don’t think they ever intersect. 1
And I agree with that 100 percent. I think the question is how close do they get. I think it’s the 2
old – I think it’s asymptote [inaudible 149:28]. It’s gets really close but it doesn’t quite ever get 3
there. We know that for sure because it’s public transit. And we know public transit never 4
pencils out unless we’re in Norway or something; apparently, it does. We all know this, so we’re 5
just basing on basic facts here. But we know the cost was more the first year because we had 6
startup costs. So we got a flat line for that cost with a given ridership. The second year, we had 7
a lower cost because we didn’t have the startup cost and that’s why we see the first year is like 8
$100K more than the second year, which is probably that startup cost, which means our cost 9
per rider is dropping from year zero to the present. As ridership increases and costs stays fixed, 10
it means by definition our costs per rider is dropping pretty quickly if we’re doubling but we’ve 11
gotten to capacity, which means that’s where we question − okay, how far is that subsidy that 12
we’re doing per rider, which we just know is dropping. Which just in my mind, that’s pretty 13
good math. That’s not a bad business model and it seems like going into the future, it’s just 14
going to get better; not get worse anyways. 15
16
So that’s where I just wanted to come in and just clarify that that’s where I’m seeing that. I 17
don’t think we’re at the point to be throwing it away. I mean that’s what they actually teach us 18
at StartX; not to go back to that but I guess that’s what I’m seeing here. And never step away 19
from a good business model just because it doesn’t look good right now, especially when it has 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
good metrics that are telling you it’s increasing in capacity and you’ve already incurred the 1
startup cost. So it seems rosier than the picture than what we’re seeing, at least if you just step 2
back and look at it from the business school theory. That’s all. 3
4
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Ji. 5
6
Commissioner Ji: Thank you. I wanted to echo Vice Chair Chang and Commissioner Templeton’s 7
comment about – I think it is pretty clear where the nodes are here. They said it better than I 8
will, so just leave it at that. I also kind of want to talk a little bit about what the public comment 9
said about the paratransit being difficult to use. I think that that’s something maybe we should 10
just be kind of like pushing a little bit harder. As Commissioner Templeton said, we have a City 11
Councilmember on VTA board and that’s kind of inexcusable that they’re like, “Oh, we just 12
won’t serve North County as much.” I just feel like that’s not quite the answer we should be 13
getting. Don’t really have any specific kind of actions around that but I think we could be doing 14
better. And I think it could be interesting to look into this, especially because I think there’s 15
general consensus amongst the Commission that we are interested in serving the vulnerable 16
population and given that we are in Santa Clara County and VTA should support us, that this 17
really shouldn’t be as hard for folks as it is. That’s all. 18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Oh, actually I did want to make one other comment, which is I am happy that – I think the – like 2
Commissioner Templeton made a comment a couple meetings ago about what is a pilot project 3
and I think what that means is sometimes we accept that what we tried the first time isn’t quite 4
right and it’s okay for us to pivot to something else. And I think that given the options here, I’m 5
happy that the Commission is looking to other potential options here. And we don’t have to just 6
say, “We committed to a pilot project with X or now it’s too late, we have to do X.” So that’s my 7
other comment. Thank you. 8
9
Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman. Then Commissioner Templeton. 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: So I’m looking at how we’re going to get closure on this item. 12
13
Chair Akin: Yes. 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: It’s come to us as an action item and if this were like a study session, 16
I think we have given great feedback. 17
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
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1
Male: Yes. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: But that’s not going to be enough in this context. And so are we 4
going to need to fashion a motion to give you direction? What does staff need to come away 5
from this session with? 6
7
Nathan Baird: Yes. So I have done a lot of thinking on this. I really have tried to – we’ve tried to 8
treat it as a pilot program and have tried to be very responsive to feedback as we’ve gone 9
through. That’s why we changed the hours. That’s why we changed the fares. We’ve done a lot 10
of experimentation with it. I would say that the feedback so far from this group has been really 11
invaluable. It’s really helped my mind spin and my colleague’s minds spin, I’m sure. I will say we 12
have 6 months more of this pilot program. We have a vendor that’s been very willing to 13
experiment; they’ve given us some options in the staff report of like ways we could experiment. 14
I think I’ve heard vulnerable users. I’ve heard that from the City Council as well. There’s some 15
concerns about whether that would be – hurt the service or harm it but we could try it. I think I 16
will reiterate that your feedback so far has been very valuable but a Commission feedback is 17
[inaudible 155:05] as well as we’ve got a Council. You’ve heard what Council has to say. I think 18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
they would be really interested to hear what – if you have feedback on the 6-month timeline – 1
the $456K is potentially good for – I – we could spread that money over 6 months, 12 months, 2
18 months; that’s – I will try to make that more explicit when we go to Council hopefully in 3
January. 4
5
Like do we want to spend that TFCA money through June and really minimize the amount of 6
city – we’ve not really used much city funds. We know it’s expensive but we’ve not used much 7
city funds so far. And that’s been because we’ve heard the concern about the cost. I will say 8
that we’ve heard the concern about general usage not being that important. I have an opinion 9
that partnership money is really important. The Stanford Research Park has really made this as 10
viable as it is so far. We really want to keep them involved in the conversation as we continue 11
to experiment and we’ve been doing that and we’ll want to kind of keep making sure it works 12
for them because that does cut the cost per trip down by a third, which is really powerful. And 13
we’ve been in conversations with potential partners and we’ve heard mixed – some of the 14
potential partners are already getting the subsidy and I think the conversation can be more 15
pointed now about like if we don’t get your partnership now, this will decline. And I – yes. So 16
I’m interested in – feedback so far, I’ve really heard it. I’ve been trying to listen, take notes on 17
all of it. We will incorporate your feedback as comprehensive of it as it’s been so far into the 18
context that we’re try to give to Council about what the options are. But if you have, as a 19
Commission, thoughts on the next 6 months, the next 18 months, or – that’s also useful. 20
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: It’s going to be difficult to form a consensus given the options and the tradeoffs. I 2
want to hear from Commissioner Templeton to wrap and then we’ll try and see what we can 3
come up with for a motion or at least condensed guidance. 4
5
Rio Lo: I think we’re also comfortable with just taking the comments to Council as well. So if a 6
motion is difficult, then I think we have enough information here to present that to Council as 7
well as a range of… 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: That’s good to know. So in other words, don’t take forever 10
deliberating a motion. I think we can all get on board with that. Thank you, Chair. I – the 11
comment I wanted to make − and it sort of ties in with both Commissioner Ji and Commissioner 12
Hechtman. We have the data – so we have the data about the needs, this program. In other 13
words, the pilot has served a very important function in providing great data. And it’s 14
wonderful that our partners have been able to build an app that’s collecting that data. We have 15
– we can do so much analysis on it. And we can use that for any number of things, right? You 16
can use that for expanding or reducing the services of this program. You can use it as input to 17
potentially the local route. And also you can use it to share with VTA to say, “Actually, you guys 18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
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2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
weren’t meeting our needs and we can tell now – quantify exactly what we need that we 1
weren’t getting from you.” Right? So that’s all a huge success. I think it’s really important to 2
understand that there are multiple needs that were being met by this program. So if we do – to 3
− go to wrapping it up, if we do want to move forward, we should look at a timeline that can 4
continue serving that purpose. How do we get the information we need for the next step? Is 6 5
months’ time enough? 6
7
Do you need 12 more months of data because you want to adjust something with the app data 8
we’re collecting, so that you can have input to the next program, whatever that might be, 9
things like that. So I would really want our motion to direct – to ask Council to direct staff to 10
squeeze every little bit of information that would be useful out of this program. I am 11
sympathetic to the need to keep our funding going but even if we get funding, it’s – we’re still 12
always at a loss. So we have to look at the long-term programs. And getting the data will drive 13
those programs; I promise you. That is the environment we’re in right now. If you can prove this 14
is a need, then we can find a way to get it funded much more easily. So I would say anything 15
you do now will drive the funding for future programs whether it’s this one or some next 16
iteration of that. Thank you. 17
18
Chair Akin: Thank you. So technically, do we need a formal motion? 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: No, it would not be required. 2
3
Chair Akin: Okay. I was preparing something sufficiently vague that could work but if we don’t 4
need that, then let’s not go through that exercise. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: Shall we at least recognize our wonderful staff? We can do that. 7
Thank you all. This is great work. This program has been amazing and whatever the future holds 8
for it, we still really appreciate the work you’ve done and that you will continue to do. And 9
thank you so much. 10
11
Chair Akin: Yes, I think you’ve proven the value and now it’s a matter of how can we deliver it. 12
Thank you. All right, this is a good time for a break. Let us return at 5 minutes to 9. 13
14
Action Items 15
Public Comment is Permitted. Applicants/Appellant Teams: Fifteen (15) minutes, plus three (3) minutes rebuttal. All 16
others: Three (3) minutes per speaker. 17
18
4. Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan (BPTP) Update: Provide Feedback and 19
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Recommend the Draft Plan to the City Council for Adoption. CEQA Status: Exempt 1
Pursuant to Public Resources Code Section 21080.20. 2
3
Chair Akin: Welcome back, everyone. We will now pick up our next Action Item, which is 4
Agenda Item 4, Recommendation of the Draft 2026 Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan. 5
And for those following along, this begins on Packet Page 135. So could we have the staff 6
presentation, please? 7
8
Ozzy Arce: Hello, vice – Chair and Vice Chair of the Planning and Transportation Commission. 9
My name is Ozzy Arce, Senior Transportation Planner, again here before you tonight presenting 10
the Draft 2026 Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan, the culmination of a multi-year 11
effort to define the 10 years of walking and biking in Palo Alto. Next slide, please. 12
13
I'm joined this evening by Transportation Planning Manager Sylvia Star-Lack and Ria Lo, the 14
director of OOT, as well as our consultants, Kittelson and Associates. Online, Amanda Leahy is 15
joining us. Next slide, please. 16
17
Tonight, I will briefly cover the project's overview and our recommended action. I'll then 18
summarize the extensive community feedback we've received, walk you through the core 19
recommendations of the draft plan, including the bike network and pedestrian districts, and 20
outline the final steps for adoption. 21
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1
But we are tonight here – next slide – seeking a formal recommendation from the Commission. 2
And the recommendation is to simply recommend that City Council adopt the 2026 Bicycle and 3
Pedestrian Transportation Plan update. Next slide. Next slide. 4
5
So let's quickly start with an overview of the project. Palo Alto has been at the forefront of 6
bicycle and pedestrian transportation planning since the early 1980s, when the City developed 7
the nation's first bicycle boulevard on Bryant Street. The City's current Bicycle and Pedestrian 8
Transportation Plan, locally referred to as the BPTP, was adopted in 2012 and this plan has 9
been successful, guiding many of the improvements we see today. But after more than a 10
decade, it is time for a comprehensive update to address new community needs, new 11
technologies, and evolve – and our evolving sustainability and safety goals. This is a grant-12
funded project by MTC's Transportation Development Act 3 Program. Next slide. 13
14
Just really quick, so what is the 2026 BPTP update? Again, it establishes our 10-year strategy for 15
investments, policies, and programs, specifically for biking and pedestrian facilities in our city. 16
And I won't read through the entire vision statement but just want to highlight that. The vision 17
here, developed with the community and Commission and Council feedback, is to create a 18
comfortable and connected street network that supports walking and biking and rolling for all 19
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people of all ages and abilities, building on our leadership in the Safe Routes to School program. 1
Next slide. 2
3
This shows just the project timeline, that we've been involved in this process since the 4
beginning of 2023 and PTC has been involved in each of these phases. And we are currently in 5
the Phase 4, the public review of the draft plan. And the draft plan has been shaped by dozens 6
of public meetings, as you can see on this slide, over the past 2 years. And we are now bringing 7
this draft plan to you and we recently visited PABAC and we anticipate going to City Council in 8
December and ultimately in early 2026 to receive a plan adoption. Next slide. 9
10
I'd like to spend a few minutes going over the feedback that brought us to this point, since it is 11
foundational to the development of the draft plan you see before you. Now I won't go through 12
each of these points – next slide – but just highlighting that in Phase 1, which was the visioning 13
and introduction of the project, our community was clear. Safety is the number one priority, 14
especially for students. We heard a strong demand for safer crossings and a seamless, 15
connected network, which we hosted a virtual workshop as well as introduced a project effort 16
to different boards, commissions, and committees. Next slide. 17
18
In Phase 2, the existing conditions analysis, needs, and concerns. In this phase, this feedback 19
became more specific. The community asked us to strengthen the network by addressing 20
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critical gaps and prioritizing key corridors, including San Antonio Road, portions of Middlefield, 1
and focusing on our bike boulevards. We did a spring walking tour of downtown and a bike tour 2
in conjunction with Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition as part of this effort. Next slide, please. 3
4
Project recommendations phase. In Phase 3, we presented the recommendations, including the 5
proposed bicycle network, projects, and programs, and the pedestrian districts. The feedback 6
was mixed. While big streets projects offered direct connections, the community questioned 7
their cost and return on investment and expressed a strong desire for more pedestrian-focused 8
recommendations and a clearer prioritization framework. Next slide, please. 9
10
So based on that feedback and with direction from the City Council this past June, we 11
developed this 2-step prioritization framework. I won't dive too far into this. You did review 12
that initial evaluation based on safety and connectivity. But again, based on feedback to further 13
refine the framework, we created the supplemental evaluation. So projects that scored well 14
moved on to the supplemental, which applies real-world constraints of project fundability, 15
project readiness, and project support. So this is how we balanced our aspirational goals with a 16
practical, actionable plan. Next slide, please. 17
18
So this process of the – initial and supplemental prioritization framework resulted in this initial 19
ranked list, which we then adjusted based on the specific City Council direction that we 20
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received in June. Council directed staff to focus on low-stress residential streets, prioritizing 1
bike boulevards, and to avoid major arterials, except where no parallel alternative existed, such 2
as San Antonio Road. Again, this direction was fundamental in shaping a draft plan. Next slide. 3
4
And this brings us to the draft BPTP update, which was released to the public on October 3rd of 5
this year, so just a few weeks ago. Next slide. 6
7
Just a quick overview of this comprehensive document. It includes many chapters but just 8
wanted to highlight that the core – chapter is the recommendations chapter, which details the 9
proposed bike network for 2026 and, moving forward, our pedestrian districts and highlighting 10
these near-term projects that will guide our work for the next 10 years. Next slide. 11
12
And I'll spend a little bit of time on this but just wanted to focus on – some of the points that 13
we received from the public and how that helped shape the – and incorporated into the draft 14
plan. You can see here that there's a clear focus on high-comfort, low-stress facilities with bike 15
boulevards now forming the foundation of the low-stress bicycle network. I'll get into that in a 16
bit. Other highlights. We prioritized Cowper Street over Middlefield as a response to the City 17
Council and the community not supporting moving forward and prioritizing big streets. Rather, 18
they wanted to prioritize our bike boulevards. You'll see that reflected here. And we also 19
addressed specific corridors like California Avenue and adding the Cambridge Avenue option as 20
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well, in addition to the Cal Avenue for when the car-free street Cal Ave. is hosting events to 1
facilitate an additional option for bicycle through-travel. Next slide, please. 2
3
Just some highlights here from our bikeway mileage 2012 to 2025. This work builds on the 4
strong foundation from 2012. Our bikeway miles in 2012 were 59 and currently prop-, is 73 5
miles. Most importantly, we've introduced new high-comfort facility types such as buffered 6
bike lanes and Class IV separated bikeways, which were not a part of our 2012 network. Today, 7
the City boasts 3.3 miles of buffered bike lanes and over 4 miles of separated bikeway facilities. 8
This table includes that comparison. Just wanted to note really quick that the 2012 lane mile 9
data is sourced from the 2012 BPTP. The 2025 lane mileage is calculated using the 2025 10
roadway centerline file; therefore, the Class I length has not decreased between 2012 and 11
2025. It – the differences are due only to the calculation method. Next slide, please. 12
13
Just really quick wanted to highlight a – a few things on how the 2026 is different from 2012. It 14
represents a strategic shift away from facility types that no – are no longer considered high 15
comfort. We are no longer proposing new sharrows, except as treatments on designated bike 16
boulevards. We are phasing out the enhanced or restricted-hour bike lanes in favor of all-day 17
facilities, such as my presentation on Addison Avenue earlier today. An example of this, again, 18
is the 24-hour bike lane now on Addison and removing that – restricted bike lanes. You see 19
some images of those here. Next slide, please. 20
_______________________
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the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
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1
So the 2026 bicycle network includes creating comfortable bike and pedestrian networks that 2
can be built by and enjoyed by people of all ages and abilities. To build on the strengths of the 3
existing network, the recommended network is structured around these 2 tiers, the low-stress 4
and then the complete vision. So you have the complete vision at the very top, the low-stress 5
builds off of that, and then we build the near-term projects off of this low-stress bicycle 6
network. Next slide, please. 7
8
The complete vision. Again, this is our long-term aspirational vision. This is not a guarantee. 9
These are just a vision exercise. Part of this effort was to create this updated 2026 bicycle 10
network map. While we have this complete vision, in the near term, the focus will be on 11
developing the low-stress bicycle network. I can't emphasize that enough. And it – this map also 12
just shows existing facilities that are not being upgraded, to illustrate the full network once fully 13
implemented. So dash is proposed; solid is existing. Next slide. 14
15
The low-stress network is the foundation for our city-wide connectivity and focuses on the 16
near-term implementation. It's built from the complete vision but prioritizes 104 projects that 17
create a safe and connected network, again, primarily using our bike boulevards to expand 18
access with minimal disruption. This approach prioritizes calm residential routes that are 19
already preferred by many community members rather than rely on separate bikeways on busy 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
arterials. Again, bicycle boulevards were identified as the most comfortable and familiar type of 1
bikeway, so we are looking to prioritize those moving forward. It does include some separated 2
bikeway projects along small portions of large arterials, such as Middlefield, yet this is done to 3
make a connection between 2 high-comfort, low-stress facilities on either side of the arterial. 4
Next slide, please. 5
6
And then there's the near-term projects list. This is the 10-year action plan and is a subset of 7
the low-stress network refined by our prioritization framework and public feedback and 8
includes 16 projects, 23 crossing projects, and other key studies. Next slide, please. 9
10
You'll see these prioritized – these near-term projects on the Table 9, which is on – in the draft 11
plan. These include corridors like – I mentioned San Antonio Road, Homer Avenue, and 12
improvements to our core bike boulevards like Bryant, Cowper, and Park. The full list is in your 13
packet as Attachment C. Next slide. I won't pay – I won't focus too much on this but the draft 14
plan also includes district areas. 15
16
Female: [Inaudible 3:09:35]. 17
18
Ozzy Arce: Yes. I can pause. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Thank you. We're getting some water. It'll be quick. Go ahead, Mr. Arce. 1
2
Ozzy Arce: So just wanted to drive a point here on the near-term projects that this – these 3
projects are our priority for the next 10 years. This is our action plan. So while we have this 4
complete vision, we have this list of hundreds of projects, realistically and feas-, these will be 5
our focus. So I just want – I can't highlight that enough. Next slide. 6
7
Because this is a Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan, there are the pedestrian districts 8
that we developed as part of this area. I think the big highlight here is, as a response to public 9
feedback we received, we added the San Antonio Road area as part of our pedestrian districts 10
as a response to the Housing Element, identifying that as an area to receive additional housing, 11
as well as the San Antonio Area Corridor Plan, as well as, frankly, SB_79 and impacts that we 12
received from that. Next slide, please. 13
14
I won't focus too much on the treatments but the district – the plan does provide 15
recommendations by district. Next slide, please. 16
17
And the draft plan includes a toolbox of pedestrian improvements, some of which are 18
illustrated here. And just note, this is a sampling of the toolbox. This is not a complete list. Next 19
slide. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
And really the important part, which is the implementation, as the adoption of this plan is not 2
the end. It's really just the beginning. As described broadly in the staff report, this BPTP 3
provides the network and policy foundation. Projects will then move into implementation 4
through our standard CIP process, from project scoping and design to engineering and 5
construction, with community engagement at every step. The visual here is an 6
oversimplification, yet generally follows this process. Next slide, please. 7
8
Now we have been doing a roadshow presenting the draft plan and just wanted to put in front 9
of you some of the feedback that we received during this draft plan presentation. And I won't 10
go through each of these points but we are hearing strong support for prioritizing San Antonio 11
Road before new anticipated housing arrives and we've heard clear the desire to add the 12
Castilleja-Park-Wilkie section to the Park Boulevard Project, which is BLVD 24. And we've heard 13
support for 20-mile-an-hour speed limits on bike boulevards and better pavement 14
maintenance. This feedback aligns with the plan's focus on low-stress facilities and we believe 15
this input can be incorporated as we move towards final plan and ultimately implementation. I 16
want to make a point that we will present these points to the City Council and ask them for 17
their recommendation on – which of these elements we do move forward, based on public 18
feedback that we've received. Just wanted to highlight that. And then maybe one last point 19
here. We have presented a program around restructuring PABAC and their role and the 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
feedback that we received from them is they would like to establish a formal and direct 1
communication channel between the comiss-, the committee, PTC, and the City Council, and so 2
we're working out ways to make that happen. And I would say relatively, broadly speaking, 3
PABAC is open to looking at that restructuring. Next slide, please. 4
5
This brings us to our final steps. Next slide. Tonight we are seeking your recommendation on 6
the adoption of the – draft plan by the City Council. The public comment period closes this 7
Friday end of day and we will present a – the draft plan at a study session to the City Council on 8
Monday, December 1st. And in early 2026, based on Council's feedback, we will look to 9
incorporate that and produce a final plan that we will then again present to the City Council for 10
adoption in early 2026. 11
12
So to close out and to be very pointed – next slide, please – the recommended action tonight is 13
for the Planning and Transportation Commission to formally recommend the City Council adopt 14
the 2026 Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan Update. That concludes my presentation. 15
Thank you. 16
17
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioners, do we have any need for clarifying questions before 18
public comment? 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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PUBLIC COMMENTS 1
2
Chair Akin: Seeing none, Mr. Tavera, do we have any requests to speak? 3
4
Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, we do. I have 2 requests to speak at the moment and no 5
raised hands on Zoom. I'll invite our first speaker, Ken J., to the mic. 6
7
Ken Joye: Good evening. I'm Ken Joye. I live in Ventura District. I want to thank you for the 8
opportunity to speak, thank staff and consultants for the work they've done on the project. I'm 9
generally happy with this and I certainly agree that you should ask Council to adopt it. The main 10
thing before you, as Ozzy said, is the near-term projects list. That's on Packet Page 147. 11
[Inaudible 3:16:12] question what that Attachment B and C might look like if latent demand 12
were done differently. I don't expect anything to change at this point but I want to ask you to 13
think about why Figure 5 in the draft plan doesn't seem to show anything for the Stanford 14
Hospital, Stanford Research Park, or the campus itself. You could also ask about the sites that 15
are listed in Table 1 of Attachment – sorry – Appendix F, future activity levels. Does that set of 16
sites skew the analysis? Another question might be, would the project list differ if intersections 17
with traffic signals are not uniformly marked as LTS 1, Level of Traffic Stress Level 1. For 18
example, if I ride from my house to Mike's Bikes, I have to go through the intersection of 19
Middlefield and San Antonio. I can't see how anyone would say that's LTS 1 for someone on a 20
bicycle. I also think you should ask why Wilton Avenue is listed on the high injury network. Is it a 21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
roadway segment or is it an intersection there? I came to say I wanted to advocate 2 policies 1
which could help. I think that all multi-family residential blocks should have road verge 2
treatment as opposed to a rolled curb or a sidewalk right at the edge of a 90-degree curb. And 3
as was part of the preliminary key themes I think a 20-mile-per-hour speed limit on bicycle 4
boulevards to be an excellent thing. Thank you for your consideration. 5
6
Male: Thank you. 7
8
Chair Akin: Thank you very much. 9
10
Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Tom K. 11
12
Tom Kellerman: Hello. I'm Tom Kellerman and I live on Emerson Street near Embarcadero. 13
Thank you for the opportunity to comment. Overall, I think that the plan is excellent and I'm 14
very supportive of it. I'd like to address just one very specific point, which is the intersection of 15
Embarcadero Road, Kingsley, and Emerson Street, which is not on the list of near-term projects. 16
I had submitted a comment to the Transportation Department and copied all of you, so I will be 17
brief on my comments here. Several years ago, the Transportation Department had a specific 18
plan for this intersection, redesigning the intersection specifically with an eye towards safety 19
for pedestrians and bicycles. That has been discussed and been thought about now for several 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
years. We were told very recently, earlier this year, that it was going forward, so I was 1
somewhat surprised to see that it didn't make it onto the list of the near-term projects. It is a 2
dangerous intersection, as I outlined in my comments, and there is, as I said, a very specific plan 3
that had been adopted and I think approved by the Transportation Department several years 4
ago to address this intersection. I would encourage you if you're not familiar with that plan that 5
had been presented, to take a look at it at least because I think it's an important part of the – of 6
that corridor, which is a very busily populated corridor for bicycles going to Paly High, to Town 7
& Country, and going to Stanford, as well as pedestrians and there's quite a bit of vehicular 8
traffic as well. One other point I just wanted to make. One of the near-term projects is – adding 9
calming measures to Bryant Street north of Embarcadero, which I'm very supportive of. It also 10
makes reference to restricting traffic turning, I think, from Embarcadero onto northbound 11
Bryant. It's not clear what exactly that would look like but I will say that if traffic is reduced 12
going onto Bryant Street, that traffic will inevitably be redirected and in all likelihood redirected 13
to Emerson Street, which is – I had pointed out – is already a dangerous intersection with no 14
signals, etc., and I think that would just exacerbate the challenges that we have at that 15
intersection of Emerson, Embarcadero, and Kingsley. So I'd ask you to take a look at that as 16
well. Thank you. 17
18
Chair Akin: Thank you, Mr. Kellerman. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, I have received no other public comment cards and no – 1
there are no raised hands on Zoom. 2
3
Chair Akin: Thank you, Mr. Tavera. All right, then. We are ready for discussion among 4
Commission members. And we'll begin with Commissioner Templeton and then Vice Chair 5
Chang and Commissioner Peterson. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, Chair. I wanted to first give the Department of 8
Transportation an opportunity to respond to the question about Emerson-Kingsley-9
Embarcadero intersection. I know that I personally toured it in 2020, I think, and it's been a 10
problem for a long time. It sounds like there was a project to fix it. Does anyone have any 11
willingness to update us on that? 12
13
Ria Lo: Yes. This is a – it's considered an active project. It's with the Public Works Department 14
and they're waiting for a project manager to be available. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: That's great. So we don't need to have it in this plan because this 17
plan is forward-looking. 18
19
Ria Lo: Correct. That's why it was assumed... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 2
3
Ria Lo: ...done... 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: No. 6
7
Ria Lo: ...but... 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: It's very reassuring... 10
11
Ria Lo: ...it's... 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: ...to hear that and it's very important that we heard from Mr. 14
Kellerman to talk about it because it is frightening. I don't know if you've walked it but it is 15
terrifying. So yes, it's a good one to work on and I'm glad to hear that. I generally am very happy 16
with this plan and I appreciate all the work you put into it and I really liked your presentation 17
and it was very clear, so thank you for all that. One question I have – and it's okay if you don't 18
have the answer to this but how are we measuring the success of these projects, other than, 19
"Did we implement it"? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ozzy Arce: That's a great question. We do have performance measures baked into the draft 2
plan. Now, they're not project specific but they are performance measures just generally for 3
biking and walking. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: The reason I ask is I was speaking with a constituent today who 6
asked about this and she was unable to stay and log in in the evening, so I'm just going to pass 7
along the question. But there are tools and devices out there that we can use to measure the 8
effectiveness of any kind of deterrents that we're putting out there. Is this crosswalk visible 9
enough? Are we seeing fewer intrusions into the crosswalk? Things like that. So that's a 10
technology solution but I just wanted to throw it out there for you guys to consider and I 11
thought it was a really good suggestion because one of the problems we have is our data is 12
limited, as far as I know, to reports that go through the police and those are usually pretty 13
severe. What we want to see and our hope for this plan – which is wonderful and thank you for 14
making it. We want to see not just a reduction in collisions but overall improvement in safety, 15
and so that means fewer near misses and fewer things that happen that don't get reported. So 16
that might need some additional measurement – automated measurement, so that's just 17
something to think about. I'm already reading your minds about, "Where's the money for that 18
going to come from?" but I hope that that's something that you guys will ask for as a 19
department in the upcoming years. Thank you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Thank you. Vice Chair Chang. Then Commissioner Peterson. 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: I just had a question about the pedestrian – well, first of all, thank you for this 4
tremendous work. I'm really excited about the plan overall. Really excited to see the pedestrian 5
districts and all those tools that can be used because I think they are so helpful for improving 6
safety. I had a question about the pedestrian districts and how they interact with our zoning 7
and the pedestrian overlays, since at our last PTC meeting, we were talking about how difficult 8
the overlay process is. And so wanted to make sure that our pedestrian districts are actually 9
aligned with our pedestrian overlays to the extent that makes sense. So I didn't – I'm not 10
familiar if – I'm not familiar enough with all of our zoning to know if these proposed districts 11
line up with our zoning. 12
13
Ozzy Arce: I will try to answer that in a different way. The – so our pedestrian districts follow 14
the boundary lines from the City's adopted Economic Development Strategic Plan and we did 15
that as a response to the Economic Development Strategic Plan focusing on the areas with high 16
pedestrian activities, which are commercial centers. So we've followed those lines for our 17
pedestrian districts less the City's pedestrian overlay zones. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. Well, then that might be a note for Planning, that we should just take a 1
look at that to make sure our left hand talks to our right. I think I often say that because we at 2
the PTC will hear items that are both from Planning and Transportation and sometimes they're 3
at odds with each other, so I want to avoid that where possible. And it may be that the zoning 4
doesn't necessarily make sense but then I would – maybe we need to take a look at our zoning. 5
So that's my first comment. My other comments are a little bit more specific. I'm really glad to 6
hear that the intersection addressed by our public commenter is actually already in the queue. 7
So I had a question about the – let's see. On Packet Page 151, the first study there – so this is 8
Attachment C and it's the Embarcadero Road Corridor Study. The last sentence under the 9
description says that this will determine the feasibility of the full corridor Embarcadero Road 10
separated bikeway project. And so my question was, does – is that at odds with the direction 11
that – Council's direction to avoid the arterials where possible? So just wanted to ask that 12
question. 13
14
Ozzy Arce: The Embarcadero Road bike lane, if you will, is not on our near-term projects list. So 15
it may still appear on the overall projects list that's correlated to our complete vision, the bi-, 16
the map that shows just everything under the sun. However, our priorities will be on the near-17
term projects. So I guess a round way of answering that is we are not prioritizing the 18
Embarcadero Bikeway for those reasons because Council told us to steer away from those big 19
arterials. So it's still an option for future consideration and maybe the next iteration of the Bike 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and Ped Plan and that's why we have the complete list but not on our near-term action plan for 1
this draft. 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: But the study itself is a high priority. 4
5
Ozzy Arce: Correct. 6
7
Vice Chair Chang: Okay. So just a point of – just because that was such a lightning rod for 8
feedback, that last sentence might be something that you want to adjust in terms of the 9
description of the Embarcadero Road Corridor Study. I agree it needs to be studied. It's 10
dangerous. We could do all sorts of pedestrian improvements. We need the information. But 11
the goal – we just – people could be sensitive to the idea if the goal seems to be a bikeway 12
project, which it doesn't seem that that is necessarily the case. Okay. 13
14
And then I had a question – okay. Question about the Cowper Bike Boulevard. I understand that 15
that was priori-, thank you for the context and the wonderful presentation. I understand that 16
that has been raised up in profile and – as a priority because we're steering away from 17
Middlefield. But as I was looking at all these projects, to me it seems like it would actually be 18
relatively lower profile among the high priority projects because Bryant Bike Boulevard is 2 19
blocks away. It's right there versus – and then on the other side of Middlefield, there's Ross 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Road already. And so while I think it is – wonderful to always have additional bike boulevards, 1
that's not – as somebody who's biked from South Palo Alto to North Palo Alto many times, I 2
don't have a hard time doing so. And I just take a little jog and I go past Cowper to Bryant and 3
it's fine. And so that's just – in terms of glaring – or not glaring but things that really jumped out 4
at me, that one was like, "Ooh. Maybe not a highest priority." Many of the other things here, I 5
was like, "Oh, I would want that first." So that's a point of feedback. 6
7
And then the other one that jumped out at me because I live near there is the El Camino Way 8
item on page 148. And also, we've just recently talked about retail nodes and – at the PTC. And 9
we've said that El Camino Way is a retail node. It's very, very well used. All the restaurants and 10
stores that are there are very, very well used. It's also very well used by Gunn High School 11
students, as we all know, and it's a scary – which is why it's high priority here. But again, in 12
terms of left hand talking to the right, parking has just been removed on El Camino, so all El 13
Camino businesses are at risk now because of that and that wasn't our choice. These poor 14
businesses in the triangle node of our retail node less El Camino Way triangle, if we remove that 15
parking, we may be risking all those businesses. Now I'm not trying to say that the parking is 16
more important than safety. I think safety is more important. But this is one of those big picture 17
questions for our city. If we – if that retail is important, then we need to think about how to 18
support it. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Furthermore, people – the reality is people are going to go to that retail or those restaurants in 1
cars. And when they can't park there, they will circle. And circling in that area is just disastrous. 2
It's already bad enough if you know where you're going. So I understand that adding bike lanes 3
there and removing parking may make it wider for the bicyclists but this is one of those where 4
there may be a spillover effect and it's one of the stickier ones, I think, here. So I just wanted to 5
highlight that. I think there could be very real safety implications because I found myself in that 6
area getting shunted out onto El Camino going, "Wait a second. I want to go the other direction 7
on – and I can't." And people are going to do crazy U-turn things and it's just dangerous already. 8
And simply removing parking doesn't necessarily make it – there are pedestrians there too. 9
Tons and tons and tons of pedestrians. So just wanted to flag that one as it's not a clear solution 10
to me, although I'm not sure – I don't have a solution for you. That's it for now. Thanks. 11
12
Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson. Then Commissioner Hechtman. 13
14
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. Can we bring up the graphic showing California 15
Avenue quickly? And where I noticed that you have California Avenue, it looked like it said 16
South Bridge as one of the priority projects. I think it was number 7. 17
18
Male: I don't know if I have a visual on Cal Ave. Are you talking about the map? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Female: [Inaudible 3:33:21]. 1
2
Commissioner Peterson: I thought we had one somewhere on Cal Ave. Any one of them is fine. 3
4
Jennifer Armer: Was it an image that was in the staff report or something that was in his 5
PowerPoint presentation? 6
7
Commissioner Peterson: At this point, we've had so much stuff go by, I don't really know. 8
9
Chair Akin: Are you asking about the pedestrian... 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 3:33:40]. 12
13
Chair Akin: ...district? 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Are you talking about [inaudible 3:33:42]? 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. That one works. 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: So... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Peterson: But... 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: ...this is [inaudible 3:33:44]. 4
5
Commissioner Peterson: ...there was a list somewhere where you had the priority projects... 6
7
Ozzy Arce: Oh. 8
9
Commissioner Peterson: ...listed. 10
11
Ozzy Arce: Yes. Near term. Slide... 12
13
Commissioner Peterson: [Inaudible 3:33:51] read that one off. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Oh, it wasn't a map? It was a chart? 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: Well, we kind of need both but we're getting there. 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 3:3358] the only map we have [inaudible 3:33:59]. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Peterson: It was one of your first slides for sure. 2
3
Male: [Inaudible 3:34:07]. 4
5
Commissioner Peterson: Let's see. It wasn't this slide here. There was an earlier one you threw 6
up where you had a list of projects. 7
8
Ozzy Arce: It was Slide 24. 9
10
Female: [Inaudible 3:34:25]. 11
12
Ozzy Arce: Oh. It was Table 9. 13
14
Commissioner Peterson: There we go. It's table [inaudible 3:34:31]. 15
16
Ozzy Arce: It's not very legible though. And then the slide before is the near-term projects, so... 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. [Inaudible 3:34:39]. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ozzy Arce: ...Slide 23. 1
2
Jennifer Armer: Yes. Slide 23 has this map. 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: All right. Let's just throw that one up. 5
6
Ozzy Arce: And yes, that map is correlated with Table 9... 7
8
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 9
10
Ozzy Arce: ...which is the near-term projects. And Cal Ave is just towards the middle of the map, 11
just heart of the center... 12
13
Commissioner Peterson: There... 14
15
Ozzy Arce: ...of the... 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: ...we... 18
19
Ozzy Arce: ...city. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Peterson: ...go. We'll zoom in as best we can. There we go. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: You know, back in the old days, they only had paper. Just saying. 4
5
Jennifer Armer: Which is why we've provided you with printed versions of the maps. So we may 6
or may not be able to... 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: I think he doesn't... 9
10
Jennifer Armer: ...Zoom... 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: ...have... 13
14
Jennifer Armer: ...in [inaudible 3:35:43]. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: ...that. I'll let him use mine. 17
18
Jennifer Armer: Yes. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: Here. I'll get in here. I wanted to draw on this, so... 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: Oh. 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: ...that's the idea. Let's see. There we go. All right. So I better use a 5
color that's not on here. Green. Okay. So I'm going to just – I don't think I can – we'll see how 6
this goes. So we'll – we have to½ – oh. 7
8
Jennifer Armer: Give us a moment. Three slides back. 9
10
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 11
12
Jennifer Armer: That... 13
14
Commissioner Peterson: There... 15
16
Jennifer Armer: ...one. 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: ...it is. All right. This one's it? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Male: Yes. 1
2
Jennifer Armer: Yes. 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: All right. I'm going to draw on here. So they go like that and they go 5
like that. Where that green line is. And I picked the wrong color. Let me get a better one than 6
that... 7
8
Female: We can see it. 9
10
Commissioner Peterson: ...because – you can... 11
12
Female: It's fine. 13
14
Commissioner Peterson: ...see it? 15
16
Female: It's fine. 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. So that's the street that goes down past the park from the high 19
school, goes to California Avenue. You can jog over into the Caltrain parking lot and then there's 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
a bridge back there for Park Avenue. And I think I saw that bridge listed somewhere in one of 1
your documents as that's a project area, to figure out that bridge. That's what I wanted to bring 2
up. I think I have – I've mentioned the bridge a couple times here at Planning. And nobody 3
knew what I was talking about. But this first time I saw you bring up the bridge so I can be like, 4
"That's what I'm talking about." I walk past that bridge all the time and I've – I haven't been hit 5
yet but it's sometimes a little bit dangerous. I think the bus comes through there. What's the 6
plan for that? And then where I'm getting at is basically that that whole segment of California 7
Avenue just needs help. It's almost like it just was the end of a project that never ever got 8
figured out and that's – and where I'm going to go with that is one, is the plan to make that a 9
through-way over that bridge? And then two, is there a way to basically develop the end of that 10
California Avenue area where the Caltrain station is to make it clear that there's a really 11
awesome commercial street right there with Thursday – well, not right now Thursday music but 12
hopefully music again soon, tons of great restaurants, a great night life there, lots of bars, one 13
of the only Michelin restaurants in the area that just cruising by, you think, "Hey, I want to get 14
off here at this station and go hang out," instead of Sunnyvale or Mountain View. 15
16
Ozzy Arce: So me designing the project here... 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ozzy Arce: ...we definitely have a vision to utilize that existing facility, whether to make it a 1
shared use path or define and carve the space for each mode. 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 4
5
Ozzy Arce: But yes, we want to leverage the existing facility there as an opportunity site, so 6
thank you for calling that out. I think other community members had also expressed that 7
opportunity specific to California Avenue and to try to encourage people to visit the rest of the 8
commercial strip, including a car-free area. Part of it includes wayfinding signage that I think – 9
in the biking world, we can definitely be a part of that to include wayfinding sign that calls out 10
California Avenue Commercial District. In addition, I'm sure that the California Avenue car-free 11
streetscape project is also looking at opportunities around public art activation or their own 12
wayfinding signs to get folks to the rest of the commercial district. But I hear you in that at that 13
area where you can either go towards Cal Ave, this – the train station, or Park Avenue, there's 14
an opportunity for us to help people find their way. 15
16
Commissioner Peterson: But what I really want to point out is that the Caltrain itself – I mean, 17
there's thousands of people on that train. It's like a freeway of people that use that train to go 18
drinking because it's an easy way to get home without driving. I mean, I ride the Caltrain all the 19
time and I'm not the only one on there a little bit intoxicated. And it really is Sunnyvale and 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mountain View or [Inaudible 3:40:01] Avenue are – those are all drinking destinations and 1
California Avenue is definitely one of them and I think you just – you don't recognize it when 2
you're on the Caltrain. You just – it just looks like a semi-abandoned stop when you come flying 3
by. And from talking with the business owners on California Avenue, I know they've all been 4
really pointing that out, that they feel like they're – somehow they need to direct people from 5
the Caltrain onto California Avenue, so it's not just a Palo Alto destination but a regional 6
destination. So when I saw that listed on your list, I just wanted to make that comment and just 7
put another pin in there and reinforce it that – it's in the middle part of your list. Does that 8
mean it's maybe happening or is it middle priority? 9
10
Ozzy Arce: The near-term list is not ranked. 11
12
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. All right. Thank you. That's all I have. Great presentation as well, 13
by the way. 14
15
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Hechtman. Then Commissioner Templeton. 16
17
Commissioner Hechtman: So this is a tremendous document and I really appreciate the 18
community collaborative process and the thought that went into making it. And I also 19
appreciated the enthusiasm, Mr. Arce, of your presentation. This is exciting stuff and so I'm 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
really enthusiastic about supporting it. I do think that the name – we've got the BPTP and we 1
have had it for more than 10 years, and so now are we going to call this the update? Because 2
it's really a new plan. I mean, it take a lot of the pieces of the old plan but it's really a new plan, 3
and so I was wondering if maybe we want to call it 2.0 or something other than "the update" 4
because we're probably going to have this 10, 15 years and are we going to always refer to it as 5
"the update"? And the institutional knowledge will fade away and people will say, "Update of 6
what? What was before?" So anyway, it's just an idea. 7
8
The only comment I really – I had on any aspect of this is in the near-term projects. One of 9
them, the most expensive one, is the San Antonio Road separated bikeway. And you showed 10
that on a couple of slides and I think one of them was up at the top and you made reference to 11
the fact that at the Council meetings fairly recently, that's a real focus of Council. They're 12
recognizing that our Housing Plan is calling for a lot of housing where there is light industrial 13
right now in that San Antonio/101 corner and we want to be ready with the bike facilities for 14
the bicyclists who will come. And I agree with that. But in terms of the timing for that, I am 15
skeptical that we're going to see appreciable housing in the next 5 years of this 10-year plan, so 16
I think that's like a back half of the next decade real need. 17
18
And one of the things I notice in the description is this notion of requesting new developers to 19
reconstruct streets according to new design. So when I saw the word "request" there, I thought, 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
"Well, that's a soft way of putting it." I think what we're talking about it conditions of approval, 1
so it's not really a request. It's an insistence if you want your project. And so then you're going 2
to have some nexus issues but I think more important than that is you're going to have this sort 3
of patchwork. And so for this project, because in the long run I do think it's really important, I 4
think one of the things the city should be looking at is whether this – and I don't know if the City 5
regularly or ever uses this tool. I can't remember any Planning Commission item that has 6
involved it but I'm wondering if this would be an appropriate place for an assessment district, 7
along this corridor of San Antonio because all of the properties along this will benefit, as well as 8
the property at the end, at the far end, along East Bayshore. And so I'm just thinking its' the 9
most expensive one but I think we have a little lead time on it and so that is really the only 10
suggestion I have is that that might be the kind of mechanism that would make sense in that 11
particular location. So thanks again for the great work. 12
13
Sylvia Star-Lack: If I could respond just a little bit to that. That's a great – that's great feedback. 14
The San Antonio Road Area Plan will be looking into that as well. They're taking this document's 15
recommendation and then moving it forward as part of their planning, so hopefully – so they 16
will be looking at implementation, funding, assessment districts, all that stuff. 17
18
Commissioner Hechtman: Great. That's great to hear. Thanks, Sylvia. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Commissioner Templeton, followed by Commissioner Ji. 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. I think we don't need to overcomplicate it. It was the 3
2012 BPTP. It can be the 2026 BPTP. So yes, I think it's important to include the year so that 4
people are shamed when they let it go over 10 years. So anyhoo, El Camino Way, I appreciate 5
Vice Chair Chang speaking about it. I used this for a bike with the kids when we were learning 6
the right routes to school for Fletcher and from their friends at Ventura's house and it was 7
terrifying. And I tried to talk to the parents about, "What if you go down the other way and go 8
to Los Robles, because it doesn't have those cars?" So I understand the idea of wanting to 9
remove the cars because it is safer without them but I also recognize that if this is deemed the 10
route to school, people are going to still go and so I don't know why that's the only way you can 11
go because it is a horseshoe-shaped street but I instructed my kids to go the other way because 12
it's safer. And so I understand why we have it on here to improve it. Now if improving it means 13
removing the parking spaces, that becomes the zoning and a planning problem that you have to 14
work out, possibly coming through us to really vet it out. We've got a few people up here with 15
some opinions about this particular street, so it should be a party if you want to come back. 16
Nevertheless, I appreciate that it's on here and I think the takeaway is if it's going to take longer 17
to implement because this has to be thought through more deeply with the parking 18
considerations, maybe potentially work with the safe routes to school to make the other 19
avenue acceptable to parents who strictly adhere to those routes. Thank you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji followed by Commissioner James. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Well, thank you for that warm introduction to the El Camino Way party, 4
Commissioner Templeton. For those who may remember when this first came to us a couple 5
months ago, I think Mr. Arce remembers exactly how much feedback I provided on the first 6
iteration of the BPTP that came before us. Just for this first round, since I know not everyone 7
has spoken yet, I will hold off on my comments about El Camino Way. But I do have a couple of 8
just general comments. Thank you for a very, very comprehensive plan. I think the staff has 9
done great work here. Went through and read all appendices, A through P. Lots of work you 10
guys put in here. And thank you for taking into the feedback also from Council about the low-11
stress residential streets. You may recall that was something I also harped on in our first 12
update. Just a couple tactical things here. On Packet Page 139, you have the table that has the 13
multi-use plan going down. I think just adding that addendum that you provided in the slide 14
deck just in the packet I think could be really helpful because that was my first glance. I was like, 15
"Why did our multi-use paths go down?" But we didn't actually lose any, right? So that's that. 16
And then I had the same question as the pedestrian overlay as Commissioner – or Vice Chair 17
Chang. And then I had a question about Boulevard 24, which you mentioned in the 18
presentation, which actually, on Packet Page 148, you only reference the portion from Castilleja 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
to Lambert. But in your description, you said the Castilleja-Park-Wilkie section. So can you 1
elaborate a little bit more on that? 2
3
Ozzy Arce: Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Initially, Park Boulevard – Project Boulevard 24 4
just included Park Boulevard. After rec-, public comment, we want to add the section of 5
Castilleja all the way down to Wilkie across to the Mountain View city limit line as a part of that 6
project. And we also learned that the City has plans for that section that we can lean on and at 7
least try to build off of as a good step. 8
9
Commissioner Ji: Sorry. Which section do you – are you referring to when you say that section? 10
11
Ozzy Arce: The Park-Castilleja-Wilkie to Mountain View. 12
13
Commissioner Ji: Yes. Which brings me to my next question, which is in the actual BPTP page 14
19, I – and also you can see in the near-term improvement projects, we see that the Park 15
Boulevard pink dotted line goes all the way to Arastradero but in your description, it's the 16
Castilleja-Park-Wilkie Boulevard. So what is the actual expected path for people, right? Because 17
if I'm a biker that goes to Park and then I get to the end and then I just see Charleston, I don't 18
really know what to do about myself at that point, so I'm just curious what the expectation is 19
here. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ozzy Arce: It would be additive. It would include that – the section that you see currently on 2
Park Boulevard, in addition to then the portion out that cuts into Wilkie that then would head 3
into Menlo. 4
5
Commissioner Ji: I guess my question is where the cut-in is supposed to be. Is the cut-in 6
supposed to be on the Maclane/Second, over there? 7
8
Ozzy Arce: Yes. 9
10
Commissioner Ji: Okay. 11
12
Ozzy Arce: Maclane is the key there. 13
14
Female: Yes. 15
16
Commissioner Ji: Okay. Yes. I guess my only comment then is, I guess what is the – it may be a 17
little bit misleading if we have – where you can also go park all the way to the end but that 18
there's no signage over there. So I guess as someone who lives in that neighborhood and knows 19
that Wilkie is the bridge, I can find my way there. But there is – it's very, very difficult to find 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
your way there right now. And then I think related to that, I also was thinking that it – what 1
defines a bar-, bike boulevard here? Because I see that on the BPTP map, you've also listed 2
James Road as part of the bike boulevard, so I was wondering what the definition is here for 3
that. Because I guess I've – I don't know how much bike traffic there is there, so just curious 4
why that was listed. 5
6
Sylvia Star-Lack: So the one block of James... 7
8
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 9
10
Sylvia Star-Lack: ...between – yes. It's a connector for folks to El Camino Way, so... 11
12
Commissioner Ji: Okay. 13
14
Sylvia Star-Lack: ...that's why. And that's a school route. 15
16
Commissioner Ji: Yes. Okay. Yes. That's – okay. Expected that. And then also, I had a question 17
about the – on Packet Page 147, SB_11A, the Middlefield Road Separated Bikeway Connection 18
to Menlo Park. I was curious how this part of Middlefield – we're still ending up keeping a 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
project, even though the guidance was to stay away from arterials, so I was wondering if you 1
could provide a little bit more explanation here. 2
3
Ozzy Arce: Yes. This is an example – yes, to your point, that initially we had proposed entire 4
corridor upgrades to Middlefield. As a result of Council feedback, we stepped away from those 5
big arterials. We're proposing this section of Middlefield not only as a response to Council 6
feedback that we received in June but also to drive the point of the connections between 2 low-7
stress facilities on either side. 8
9
Commissioner Ji: I guess for me, I was reading the description that it goes from Everett, but I 10
guess I'm wondering, on Bryant there also is a bridge, I believe, that goes into Menlo Park. So I 11
guess for me, I – it – this segment of Middlefield here seems a little bit of an island. It seems like 12
it's just there on an – or – on a somewhat arterial that then just goes into nowhere, while 13
maybe, if we want to facilitate the connection to Menlo Park, it may make more sense down on 14
Bryant. 15
16
Ria Lo: Perhaps I can respond to that. So this is a part of town that is very dense, and so having 17
a little bit of redundancy in the network is acceptable in this area. This portion of Middlefield 18
has more lanes than south of Channing, and so we're looking at that segment and considering 19
what the options are. There have been requests on the Menlo side to improve that access by 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
bicycle. There's also been a history of collisions, and so we're trying to address multiple issues. 1
It's not just the bike facility but it's also the safety issue. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Okay. Yes. Thank you for that feedback or for that answer. I do think – I'm still 4
a little bit a toss up, right? By making it more bike infrastructure there, maybe we are 5
encouraging more usage and possibly more collisions, so again, I am a little bit worried about 6
that. And then I also had a question about SB_12, the Homer Avenue Separated Bikeway. So I 7
notice that today, when I go by that intersection with the tunnel there's one block of both sided 8
bike support up to High and then the expectation is that the bikers will turn to the right on High 9
and then go up probably Channing is my guess. I was wondering, in the description here on 10
what you plan on supporting, is the idea that then Homer would have – both directions would 11
be the bike road, such that you would bike both directions on Homer between Alma and 12
Bryant? 13
14
Ozzy Arce: Yes. It would be both directions, is the idea here. 15
16
Commissioner Ji: So I guess I'm curious, given the current setup, is there a reason why we cho-, 17
we didn't choose to just keep the direction of traffic? Homer has a bike lane that goes this way 18
and then you can come out of the tunnel on Homer and then just go on Channing the other 19
direction. Is it just because we already have the infrastructure set up there? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ozzy Arce: Correct. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Okay. My only comment is, anyone who's driven on Homer knows that that 4
Whole Foods is a little bit dicey to go through. That's my – I don't know how to get around that 5
but I'm just providing that as commentary for anyone who's ever tried to go there. So there's 6
that. And then I want to second the comment about Cowper. I'm unclear. Of the projects that 7
are priority projects, probably isn't my personal priority for that. And then a last comment for 8
this round, you have a small typo on Packet Page 149. Boulevard Crossing Number 2, it says, 9
"Carson Streer." So that's it for now. 10
11
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner James and then I'll wrap up the first round. 12
13
Commissioner James: Less questions and just a general comment that I'm excited about 14
anything that brings about more bike safety. I tend to gravitate – not that we're at a study 15
session but I tend to gravitate to the ones that I know and fear. I used to live at Bryant and 16
Lincoln and I'm super excited about that stretch, just because I know it because my kid bikes 17
there. It gets very personal. But I'm certainly supportive of 20 miles an hour and [inaudible 18
3:47:28] control speed there. I don't know if I get to say it but I think I did – before I was here, I 19
put my name on a petition to try and get stop signs at Lincoln and Bryant, 4-way stops. But 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
anyway, I'm excited that that's being looked at as something to improve. And the other one 1
that is near and dear to my heart is one other folks had mentioned, which is the El Camino Way 2
and the Gunn pathway to school – bikeway to school. And I was – I happened to be there today 3
for a dentist appointment with my kid and it is – I used to drive that way every day and it was 4
nerve-wracking to see the kids just run out of room and get up on the sidewalk and go past the 5
cars. And I just feel like whatever we can do to make that safer for them, I'm very sympathetic 6
to the businesses but I'm probably more sympathetic to the kids. That's all. 7
8
Chair Akin: Thank you. I will echo all of the comments about how superb this work is and how 9
enthusiastically we'll be recommending that it move ahead. I'm going to talk about a few 10
concerns, ranging from a high-level presentation issue and eventually, perhaps the next round, 11
some of the small nits. A pattern that I hear among us on the dais as well as from public 12
comment is that there is confusion about the division of responsibility between the definition 13
of the projects here and how the implementation will be handled. Now I'm going to give you a 14
specific example that requires some detail but it's a more general pattern. So when it comes 15
time to implement a project, we often hear some objections because there's a feeling that 16
some consequences haven't been addressed. And the public comment from Mr. Kellerman 17
echoes a comment that I gave to you in the pre-meeting. For Project Boulevard 2, if you restrict 18
northbound turns from Embarcadero onto Bryant, then that traffic is going to go somewhere 19
else. And the question is, at what point in the process are those consequences dealt with? And 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
can they result in modification of the project, either by eliminating parts of it or by extending it? 1
Mr. Kellerman's observation was that perhaps things would have to be extended to Emerson. 2
Fortunately, we've got that one covered. And my comment was that perhaps things have to be 3
extended to Waverley, which is the next street on the other side of Bryant. 4
5
Just to review what's going on there, Waverley's a collector, so it already has a high traffic 6
volume. I think the last I recall is around 3,500 vehicles per day but that was pre-pandemic. It's 7
within 1,000 feet of Casti and Gamble Garden. So you see how it's getting close to triggering the 8
neighborhood traffic calming program conditions already. And, most importantly, every day it's 9
crossed by at least hundreds of students who are going to Addison, to Casti, and to Paly. So 10
bumping cross-traffic across all of those heavily used bike routes for the kids may be an issue. If, 11
during the engineering study process for making changes to Bryant, you discover that perhaps 12
some traffic calming is needed on Waverley as well, then I think I would like to understand, and 13
perhaps other readers of the projects would like to understand, that the process that's used will 14
accommodate those other considerations, so that what's listed here as the definition of the 15
project is not the be-all and end-all, that there will be a further analysis that goes into the 16
implementation. I don't know quite how you want to express that but it’s a general issue that 17
applies not just to this particular project but to some of the others that we've discussed tonight 18
and to many others that are on the list. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Let's see. A couple of suggestions for the language and possibly also for additional policies or 1
programs and then I'll wrap up the high-level comments and move on to the smaller stuff next 2
round. Page 96, we talk about policies and programs and we mention TDM programs. And 3
there are suggestions there for why TDM programs are important and some characteristics 4
TDM programs should have. I think it would be a good idea to add "improving TDM 5
enforceability" to this paragraph, as it's a topic that comes up repeatedly and this is an 6
appropriate place for it. Finally, also for policies and programs, are there any opportunities that 7
we could pursue for cooperation with wayfinding providers? My 2 goals there would be to get 8
them to favor particular bike or pedestrian routes and to disfavor particular vehicle routes. So 9
are there any opportunities to be explored there? Perhaps that's outside the scope of this plan 10
but it seems to me that it would fit into the policies and programs discussion on page 96. All 11
right. So those were all my high-level issues and we'll do another round, beginning with Vice 12
Chair Chang. 13
14
Vice Chair Chang: All right. For my second round, it's a pretty quick one. In pre-meeting, Ms. 15
Star-Lack had suggested that we look for anything that we think is maybe a glaring omission. I 16
have to be honest, I didn't read the full BPTP, so maybe this is not an omission but in terms of 17
the high-priority areas – so I'm looking at the near-term improvements map and you've got the 18
purple dotted line going down San Antonio Road, so across 4 protected bike lanes, as well as 19
the purple dotted line that is on Meadow and Fabian. And so there's this little area that goes – 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
on Charleston Road from San Antonio to Fabian and I know that we've done the Charleston 1
Traffic Calming Project and everything but gee, it would be really, really, really nice if that little 2
connector there were also safe – safer for bicyclists because it's terrifying there and we know – 3
that's another one where I know of multiple, multiple injury car accidents there. I think there 4
was a fatality of a senior citizen on the Mountain View side over there. And the traffic is only 5
going to get – it's gotten significantly worse with all the development in Mountain View at San 6
Antonio Center. But it's a – that whole area is where it's currently a standstill for 4 traffic light 7
changes – rounds of traffic lights during rush hour. And unfortunately for bicyclists, there's no 8
real good way to deal with that section if you want to – if you're over in that section of Palo 9
Alto, wanting to get anywhere else, frankly. It's so scary. The one time I went there and then 10
ended up biking all the way back to – this is before the bike bridge – biking all the way back to 11
Oregon because I was like, "There's no way I'm going to go any further to get to the Baylands." I 12
added half an hour to my trip at least, one way. So if we could just make that little sec-, and 13
that little section is high traffic – high car traffic but also super dangerous for bicyclists but I 14
don't think there's any other – we have to make it good. So I think that we need to – that's a 15
hole. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Vice Chair, are you just saying just from Fabian Way to San Antonio 18
or that whole stretch from Middlefield to San Antonio? 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice Chair Chang: I mean, ideally, Middlefield to San Antonio would be amazing but really, if we 1
could just go to Fabian, than at least people could go on Fabian and go around because it's 2
terrifying over there. And it's going to be used as we put in the housing and the kids need to go 3
to school. It's just – they've got to use it. I think... 4
5
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes. 6
7
Vice Chair Chang: ...staff wanted to comment, so [inaudible 4:07:56]. 8
9
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes. I just want to – just similarly, San Antonio Road Area Plan is also looking at 10
this, so they've – they're thinking about what we might be able to do to enhance safety there. 11
12
Vice Chair Chang: I totally understand that they are looking at it but because the San Antonio 13
Class IV bikeway is on this map as a priority project, I just think that it might be a good idea to 14
include something about that connection as a priority project. And I don't – I know we're late in 15
the process but it would certainly render the San Antonio in – bike – the Class IV bikeway much 16
more useful by adding that little bit as a priority project. So when I compare Cowper, for 17
example, which I was saying maybe I would deprioritize that to this little section, I think this is 18
way more important. Yes. Thanks. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 1
2
Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. I'll also talk about some projects that I'm really excited 3
about. So I think this Quarry Road Transit Connection Project I think is really interesting. Having 4
been part of the ULI study, I think that one thing I learned from Steven, our Historic Resources 5
Board planner, is that he actually uses this trail and I think that having some stronger 6
connections from here to the mall – from the Transit Center to the mall I think could be – is 7
something that I'm really excited about. One thing that's a – I was hoping to get a little bit more 8
clarification on is this separated bikeway on East/West Meadow. Is that – would it be concrete 9
on both sides? I think mostly because right now, anyone who is awake around school time at 10
those places knows that the kids bike 8 bikes wide and the colli-, the injuries tend to occur 11
when they are all of a sudden congested into a tighter space. So for example, you are on the 12
bike path by JLS and all – it's actually narrow and the kids are trying to pass each other because 13
they're weaving. So I guess I'm wondering, for this project here, maybe it's not necessarily a 14
question. Just maybe just a comment. I'll just leave it as a comment. It's just I think some 15
thought needs to be taken care of in terms of the vol-, thinking about the volumes that need to 16
pass by here because it is an immense amount of volume on East/West Meadow. And then – so 17
for that – okay. I guess now I'll talk about the El Camino Way section, which I'm sure everyone's 18
been waiting for me to talk about. Sam, do you mind? I sent you some photos that I took, since 19
they are right next to my house. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Female: [Inaudible 4:10:50]. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Okay. So I have a bunch of photos, right? So this is El Camino Way. This is in 4
front of Palo Alto Commons, which maybe some of you are familiar with this project. But you 5
see here, it's completely parked through on this side and actually, at this time of day, which was 6
yesterday, you're not actually even allowed to park on the other side of the street, right? So it's 7
like I believe the signage – and maybe someone from Transportation can comment – I think it's 8
no parking 7 to 7, I believe, on that street on the other side, for the explicit reason that the kids 9
are supposed to be biking on this bike road. So I'm a little bit unconvinced that saying no 10
parking means that people won't park, which for the Palo Alto Commons project, we've 11
continued to see many parking violations across the whole neighborhood there. I guess – Yes. 12
So I guess I won't have to show you – everyone who – anyone who's been there knows it's 13
completely packed. So maybe we can go to the map photo, Sam, that I have. Okay. So one of 14
the things that I was thinking about here – I know we're way ahead of the ideation – the actual 15
implementation phase. But as I asked the Transportation team bef-, earlier, is that James Road 16
over here is considered a safe route to school as well. And so one of the things that I was 17
thinking about and looking at this as a big picture for our commercial areas is "to, not through". 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
You'll see that in most of the areas that we have commercial area – so University, Cal Ave, and I 1
guess we can include here – you want to get to the area but you may not want to bike through 2
the area, right? So we've decided that Cambridge is where we'll have the bikes or on Everett or 3
Lytton or Hamilton. And so the way I think about a potential way to get around this is that 4
maybe the kids will bike down Meadow, go down Wilkie, and then go down James. And then if 5
you want to remove the parking, which I think is important, we would only have to end up 6
removing about 300 feet or so of the parking towards the end here, at the very end corner. And 7
so if we supported the infrastructure, since technically, we do plan on making improvements on 8
Meadow, and that Wilkie is supposed to be a regional bike route and James is already a safe 9
route to school, and Wilkie and James are pretty calm roads, relatively, I think that we could do 10
some kind of El Camino project that – we get a little the best of both worlds in that we get to 11
keep most of the parking for a vast majority of the businesses that are here in the triangle node 12
but we get a much safer route and we can encourage the kids to go this way. 13
14
I know that there's a whole theory about desire paths and whether or not the kids will actually 15
bike on this road but I think that if we can – it's – if – it's really pretty square, right? I think 16
you're probably losing no more than 15 seconds this way and if we – I think that there's a pretty 17
good argument that if we decide to make the Wilkie and James Road portion a lot – just so 18
much better, I think it will encourage people pretty quickly. Because for example, I actually do 19
take this route, El Camino Way-James-Wilkie, on the way back from Gunn. This is because, 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
those of you who know, on El Camino Way that going away from El Camino, you're on a 1
sharrow. You're – there is no bike lane. Right? And so there are already a large amount of kids 2
who do this route on the way back because it is so much safer. If we decide that – if we can 3
make this route the "best route" then I think the kids will end up going this route. So that's my 4
thoughts here. I know we're way too early – yes. Go ahead. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: Can I just ask you, is there a stop sign there if you – for the kids that 7
are trying to – so coming back, you turn right but to go... 8
9
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: ...to school, you'd have to turn left. Is there a stop sign? 12
13
Commissioner Ji: There is no stop sign. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 16
17
Commissioner Ji: But there's one of those signal lights. 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Ji: I know it's not as good. I – this is a half... 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Well... 4
5
Commissioner Ji: ...baked idea. Yes. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: No. I'm not saying it's – I'm not dismissing the idea. I'm just saying I 8
think that could be a reason that it's not currently preferred for a to-school direction. 9
10
Commissioner Ji: Yes. No. I agree. I strongly agree. And the fact that there's already a bike lane 11
on the way to school. But I'm thinking that in the BPTP time frame there's a world in which we 12
could make this the best route. And if we do so, then I think people will end up taking it 13
because there's already evidence that people do take this route when it is the better, safer way 14
away from school. So that's my thought on that. And then in addition to this, I'm also – one of 15
the things that I think about when I'm biking on a bike boulevard that I really like about Bryant 16
is that sometimes there are those cross-streets where, when you're biking on Bryant, other cars 17
have to stop for you but you are the – you don't have to stop, right? But on Wilkie, we actually 18
– there are a couple streets here – I can't remember the name, it's Tennessee or Carolina or 19
something – where the cross-traffic does not stop for you and you have to stop. So I think in 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
conjunction with these improvements, that's one thing that I would look into because I – even 1
though it's a residential street, I have seen cars whizz by when I'm – this is the main bike route 2
that's connecting multiple cities, it has a lot of traffic on it. But there are cars whizzing by, 3
turning right, turning left because they don't have to wait. So that's my thought on that. Yes. So 4
I'll hold off for now. 5
6
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Templeton, you have a follow-up? 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. I wanted to ask about the Meadow improvements. Is that 9
project in the same space where we had a recent severe injury? Is that the – there was a 10
Meadow project that Commissioner Ji was talking about that he had concerns about the style of 11
that bike lane. Can you describe – is that the location where the young man was hit? 12
13
Sylvia Star-Lack: I'm not sure I'm – I have the right – was there a recent collision or is this the 14
one that happened... 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: A couple [inaudible 4:17:34]. 17
18
Sylvia Star-Lack: ...3 years ago? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: I don't know if it was 3 years ago, but yes. 1
2
Sylvia Star-Lack: Okay. 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: It's the young man who was biking back from the library on 5
Meadow. 6
7
Sylvia Star-Lack: Okay. I'm – I don't know if that's the one that I'm thinking but... 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: Was there more than one? 10
11
Sylvia Star-Lack: There was one but I don't know. I – so... 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 14
15
Sylvia Star-Lack: ...I [inaudible 4:17:50] 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Let's... 18
19
Sylvia Star-Lack: You might know something that I don't know. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: I don't know something you don't... 2
3
Sylvia Star-Lack: Okay. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: ...know. This is... 6
7
Female: [Inaudible 4:17:54]. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: It's got to be... 10
11
Sylvia Star-Lack: [Inaudible 4:17:55]. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: ...that one. 14
15
Sylvia Star-Lack: Okay. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: This was... 18
19
Sylvia Star-Lack: The... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: ...a pretty severe injury. He's not passed away but he's still in a 2
coma. 3
4
Sylvia Star-Lack: The South Palo Alto Bikeways Project is – if it's the one that Commissioner Ji 5
was talking about – is the one between – on East Meadow from Alma all the way to Fabian. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 8
9
Sylvia Star-Lack: So that's... 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: So it... 12
13
Sylvia Star-Lack: ...the... 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: ...would... 16
17
Sylvia Star-Lack: ...one. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: ...be that stretch. So are – do we think that – I want to hear 1
Commissioner Ji's concern about making sure that kids can ride to school beside each other in a 2
protected lane but – I want a protected lane. I mean, kids should be able to get from our 3
neighborhood to the library without being hit. 4
5
Commissioner Ji: I do agree... 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: But... 8
9
Commissioner Ji: ...but I... 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: ...well and this is definitely not about you. I want staff to tell me that 12
that's what this project is. So I apologize. And feel free to say what you need to say but that's 13
what I'm asking for, if we can get – can you share some more detail? Does – I want to know if 14
we're addressing the safety of that stretch from – probably yes. I just want you to confirm it out 15
loud that we would be preventing that situation from happening again, the situation where a 16
car that wants to bypass somebody who's turning left will not be able to swing into the bike 17
lane and hit an unsuspecting child. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Sylvia Star-Lack: Correct – but yes, it would be a separated bike lane. There would be some kind 1
of vertical separation. And that would be different than what there is – than what is there 2
today. I don't want to get into the specifics of design. I'm not going to design it right here. I 3
don't... 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: And I'm not asking... 6
7
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: ...you to. 10
11
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: I'm... 14
15
Sylvia Star-Lack: Right. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: ...what I'm trying to do... 18
19
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: ...is celebrate the responsiveness... 2
3
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: ...of this department... 6
7
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: ...to preventing future tragedies. 10
11
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: But that requires you confirming that... 14
15
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: ...that's what we're doing. 18
19
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yes. That is what we're doing. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 2
3
Sylvia Star-Lack: Thanks. Yes. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: Thanks. Commissioner Peterson was wondering if we can bring that 6
stretch up on the map and look at it. I can also show you it's this dotted line – purple dotted line 7
here. Yes. Thank you for doing that. I think it's incredibly important. That library and community 8
center is a hub. It passes 2 schools. It's got – on the way to a park and then on the way to the 9
Baylands by the bike bridge. So this is a heavily used bike path, not just by young people but by 10
all people in the community and making it safer and protecting from over-eager left-turners or 11
whatever – it's extremely important, so thank you for doing that and including that in the 12
priority. 13
14
Chair Akin: All right. Seeing no other lights, I'll make a few comments about minor issues. 15
Related to this – not so minor – but the pedestrian component of this plan is really 16
underappreciated and I think there's excellent work there too, which will be of great benefit to 17
a lot of people. So that brings me to the first nitpicky question. On page 50, when we talk about 18
walking activity, "Most walking trips are under 5 minutes with a mean of 11 minutes and a 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
median of 7." If the median is 7, then it's not possible for most trips to be under 5. So what was 1
really intended here? 2
3
Ozzy Arce: I appreciate that question and the activity level data comes from the analysis we did 4
with a company called Replica and so I will defer to the project consultant, Amanda, to help us 5
answer that question. And... 6
7
Amanda Leahy: [Inaudible 4:22:22]. 8
9
Ozzy Arce: ...maybe the short answer is... 10
11
Amanda Leahy: Yes. 12
13
Ozzy Arce: ...we can look into it. 14
15
Amanda Leahy: [Inaudible 4:22:26]. 16
17
Jennifer Armer: Yes. We can make sure that it's accurately represented. Sorry. Go ahead. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Amanda Leahy: Oh, okay. Yes. This is Amanda Leahy with Kittelson and I will need to recheck 1
the numbers, the way it was presented, but I believe we were – we could've switched them 2
around. The average trip length could be 7 minutes, the median 5. But yes, will need to look 3
into the specifics there. I think the overall intent was to say that the average walking trip length 4
is short. 5
6
Chair Akin: Yes. Thank you. Just to avoid anal-retentive folks like myself from getting tripped by 7
that sort of thing. Page 100, this is something that's come up in the past. The suggestion is to 8
remove language that can discourage walking, biking, and rolling, such as requirements to cross 9
at crosswalks. Now some readings of this that I have seen suggest that the goal is to allow 10
crossing at completely random places by either decriminalizing it or even explicitly encouraging 11
it and I'm worried about the safety implications of this. So is that the intent? And if not, perhaps 12
there should be a little word-smithing applied there. 13
14
Ozzy Arce: We can look into that. 15
16
Chair Akin: Thank you. And let's see. Page 108, the description of project intersection L5 17
references California Avenue when it should be University. 18
19
Ozzy Arce: Thank you for that. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Akin: And last one, page 29 discusses performance measures and one that's mentioned is 2
the annual commute mode share. I'm just curious as to how to measure that. 3
4
Sylvia Star-Lack: We normally use the census data for commute to work. If we're looking 5
specifically at bikes, we'll also use our safe routes to school data for bikes. 6
7
Chair Akin: Okay. Thank you. That's good enough for me. That is all I have on my list. 8
Commissioners, do we have anything else to ask or comment upon? All right. Then... 9
10
Vice Chair Chang: All right. I'd like to make a motion that – so I'd like to move the staff 11
recommendation that we recommend that the Council adopt this plan. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Second. 14
15
Chair Akin: Mr. Tavera? 16
17
Samuel Tavera: Yes. Commissioner James? 18
19
Commissioner James: Yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 4
5
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Templeton? 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 8
9
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Ji? 10
11
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 12
13
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Peterson? 14
15
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 16
17
Samuel Tavera: Vice Chair Chang? 18
19
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Samuel Tavera: Chair Akin? 2
3
Chair Akin: Yes. 4
5
Samuel Tavera: Motion carries 7-0. 6
7
Ozzy Arce: Thank you. And I'd be remiss if I didn't thank you for being a part of this effort, the 8
whole 2 years, not just tonight. So thank you, thank you and we're excited to present this at the 9
City Council. 10
11
Chair Akin: Great. We're looking forward to a quick approval there. 12
13
APPROVAL OF MINUTES 14
Public Comment is Permitted. Three (3) minutes per speaker. 15
16
5. Approval of Planning & Transportation Commission Draft Summary & Verbatim 17
Minutes of September 6, 2025 18
19
Chair Akin: Our next item is approval of minutes for the meeting of September 6, 2025. And Mr. 20
Tavera, do we have any public comments on this? 21
22
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, I have received no public comment cards and no raised 1
hands on Zoom. 2
3
Chair Akin: Very good. Commissioners, any questions before we move? 4
5
Commissioner Ji: Can we do these together or no? 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: I was absent for one. 8
9
Commissioner Ji: Oh. 10
11
Chair Akin: Pardon me. I dropped the ball here. Do you have a comment or... 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: No. The question was can we vote on these together. I – and then my 14
comment was I was absent for one, so we need to take them separately. 15
16
Chair Akin: Sorry. I misheard you. All right. So I move approval of the minutes of September 6, 17
2025, as revised. 18
19
Commissioner Ji: Second. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Peterson? 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 4
5
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Ji? 6
7
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 8
9
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Templeton? 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 12
13
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner James? 14
15
Commissioner James: Yes. 16
17
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Samuel Tavera: Vice Chair Chang? 2
3
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 4
5
Samuel Tavera: Chair Akin. 6
7
Chair Akin: Yes. 8
9
Samuel Tavera: Motion carries 7-0. 10
11
6. Approval of Planning & Transportation Commission Draft Summary & Verbatim 12
Minutes of September 10, 2025 13
14
Chair Akin: And next we have approval of minutes for the meeting of September 10, 2025. Any 15
public comments for this one? 16
17
Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, received no public comment cards and no raised hands on 18
Zoom. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Akin: Commissioners, any questions? If not, I move approval of the minutes of September 1
10, 2025, as revised. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Second. 4
5
Samuel Tavera: All right. Commissioner Templeton? 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 8
9
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: Abstained. 12
13
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Peterson? 14
15
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 16
17
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner James? 18
19
Commissioner James: Yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Ji? 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 4
5
Samuel Tavera: Vice Chair Chang? 6
7
Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 8
9
Samuel Tavera: Chair Akin. 10
11
Chair Akin: Yes. 12
13
Samuel Tavera: Motion carries 6-0-1 with Commissioner Hechtman abstaining. 14
15
Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 16
Members of the public may not speak to the item(s). 17
18
Chair Akin: And finally, do we have any questions, comments, or announcements from 19
commissioners? Commissioner Templeton followed by Vice Chair Chang. 20
21
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. I have a question that is for staff but I need to ask the 1
commissioners how they feel. I don't know how you are enjoying receiving the giant envelopes 2
for some of our packets and I notice that many of you who have this card have folded it in half. 3
And I was just wondering if anyone would – or if people would be comfortable asking staff on 4
small – when it's the attachments or smaller like this, if we could encourage them to use a 5
smaller envelope. Anyone... 6
7
Jennifer Armer: [Inaudible 4:28:46]. 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: ...have a thought about – well, hold – anyone have a thought about 10
it up here? Anyone have a problem with it? Okay. Yes, Miss Armer, do you think that would be 11
a possibility? 12
13
Jennifer Armer: My concern is not to have a discussion of something that wasn't on the agenda 14
but we – I see... 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: I don't think... 17
18
Jennifer Armer: ...generally... 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: ...it's an agendizable item. 1
2
Jennifer Armer: I know. 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: I think it's... 5
6
Jennifer Armer: I know. I just want to be cautious. But I think we – yes, we can – use smaller... 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: Well, I have tried... 9
10
Jennifer Armer: ...envelopes. 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: ...other channels and we're still getting the big packets, so I 13
thought... 14
15
Jennifer Armer: [Inaudible 4:29:13]. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: ...I would try this as an option. 18
19
Jennifer Armer: Thank you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. 2
3
Chair Akin: Vice Chair Chang. 4
5
Vice Chair Chang: All right. I just wanted to thank Ms. Armer, thank staff because I read the 6
packet for the Council meeting that just happened on Monday and I read the staff report for 7
660 University and I just want to thank staff for the very accurate representation of the 8
discussion that the PTC had. It was detailed, accurate, and I really appreciate the fidelity with 9
which our discussion was transmitted to City Council. 10
11
Chair Akin: Thank you. And Commissioner Peterson. 12
13
Commissioner Peterson: Just wanted to give staff a heads up that the Water District's 14
Independent Monitoring Committee, which is the bond oversight, is preparing in the next few 15
weeks to start reviewing the Water District's bond and all the projects, not all that different 16
than what we did tonight but just for the Water District and to be – maybe make public 17
comment anywhere that's applicable, like the Baylands. Thank you. 18
19
Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Ji. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that
the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Ji: Thank you. I did find out who's out in the conference room over – out here 2
and it's – we have a – through our sustainability department, we have a youth group. And they 3
have a mobility subgroup where they were trying to work with students to bike and walk more. 4
And I was like, "Okay. That would be great to get them" – as someone who did youth council for 5
the City, I'm personally interested in if there are any other kind of youth-related activities 6
through the City. I'd be happy to learn – I think we'd all be interested in – at least me – learning 7
more about them just so that we can encourage more youth participation across our PiE 8
initiatives because a lot of what we're talking about is for the future, so it'd be nice to have 9
some more input from younger audiences. 10
11
Chair Akin: Thank you. Any further comments, questions, announcements? Then we are 12
adjourned. Thank you, everyone. 13
14
Adjournment 15
10:32 p.m. 16
17
/ektle 18