The URL can be used to link to this page

Home My WebLink About2025-09-24 Planning & Transportation Commission Verbatim Minutes_______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Planning & Transportation Commission 1 Verbatim Minutes: September 24, 2025 2 Council Chambers & Virtual 3 6:00 PM 4 5 Call to Order / Roll Call 6 6:00 pm 7 8 Chair Akin: Good evening, everyone. I call to order this September 24th regular meeting of the 9 Planning and Transportation Commission. Mr. Tavera, would you call the roll, please? 10 11 ROLL CALL 12 13 Administrative Associate Samuel Tavera: Yes. Chair Akin? 14 15 Chair Akin: Here. 16 17 Samuel Tavera: Vice-Chair Chang? 18 19 Vice-Chair Chang: Here. 20 21 Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 22 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: Here. 2 3 Samuel Tavera: Commissioner James? 4 5 Commissioner James: Here. 6 7 Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Ji? 8 9 Commissioner Ji: Here. 10 11 Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Peterson? 12 13 Commissioner Peterson: Here. 14 15 Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Templeton? 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Here. 18 19 Samuel Tavera: For the record, we have a quorum. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Akin: Thank you. 2 3 Public Comment 4 Members of the public may speak to any item NOT on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker. 5 6 Chair Akin: Do we have any public comment requests for items that are not on the agenda 7 tonight? 8 9 Samuel Tavera: Yes. Through the Chair, we do have one request to speak. It is gonna be 10 Christine N. I would invite Christine N. to come to the mic. 11 12 Christine N.: Hi. Commissioners, I'm a resident of Ventura and I'm speaking for my next-door 13 neighbor, Christine Winn. And this is in regards to a set of proposals released about a bike and 14 pedestal rou-, pedestrian route. I'm looking at the clock here. Okay. And I'll just proceed and 15 then I'll say that I agree with what she's saying and will add as much as time allows. I'll read 16 quickly. She sent this, so it's public record at this point. "I'm Christine Winn and I've lived in my 17 house in Palo Alto for 26 years. This is more than just a house to me. It's where I brought my 18 only child into the world, where I raised her, where every milestone of her life was unfolded. It 19 is the only home she has ever known and I raised her to be a caring adult through community 20 service. Over the past 10 years, my daughter and I have each contributed hundreds of 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. volunteer hours, working with food banks just to bring food for low-income families and 1 seniors, serving food at women homeless shelters and helping students by volunteering at the 2 public libraries and at the school district. We are not just residents. We are active contributors 3 who have given back to this community. I want to be clear. I fully support safe biking and 4 sustainability but tearing down long-standing homes is not the right path forward. Under 5 California Constitution Article I, Section 19, and the U.S. Constitution's Fifth Amendment, 6 private property cannot be taken or damaged for public use without clear necessity and just 7 compensation. 8 9 That necessity has not been demonstrated here and beyond the law, this proposal contradicts 10 Palo Alto's own adopted plans. The Comprehensive Plan and the 2023-2031 Housing Element 11 both commit to preserving existing housing and protecting neighborhood character. If the City 12 destroys homes for this project, it undermines those commitments and the trust residents 13 place in you. There are other options. For instance, using existing rights of way, rerouting 14 through underutilized land, or reallocating roadway space that can achieve your transportation 15 goals without displacing families. Progress should not mean erasing the very community you 16 are meant to serve. I urge you, please protect our homes. Thank you." And that was Christine 17 Winn. Okay. Now I have 40 seconds for myself. I am her nor-, neighbor and one o-, my home is 18 also stated as one of the eight homes – one of the four homes that may be taken by public 19 domain under the eight proposals, I think, created by the consultants hired by the City for 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. potential new pedestrian routes and bike routes. And while I too also am a daily biker for my 1 commute, I wanted to express that I found it with dismay that they were not first polling local 2 residents on that very street and I urge you as Council members to please rethink the proposal 3 and come to our neighborhood to see how crammed our streets are. I don't think it's a safe 4 bike route for children, two of which I have in the public schools here. Thank you. 5 6 Samuel Tavera: [Inaudible 20:57]. 7 8 Chair Akin: Thank you. 9 10 Female: [Inaudible 20:59]. 11 12 Chair Akin: And thank you to Christine as well. 13 14 Samuel Tavera: Our next public commenter is Ward T. 15 16 Ward Thomas: Hi, everybody. My name is Ward Thomas. I'm a neighbor of Allen 21:11 and 17 Christine and everybody in that area, so – and I talked to you, Allen, the other day, so thanks for 18 your time on that. Basically, there are other ways to make this happen without taking people's 19 houses. We just need to find those ways to make that happen, right? We've had to give back 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. money in our budget because we don't have enough money, so we've had to claw back some 1 personnel, so the City is not flush with cash right this second. If you try to buy people's houses 2 for $10,000,000, $15,000,000, $20,000,000 plus the project cost, it's a pretty big expense, so – 3 that's all I'm saying, is there's a way to get around this to make this happen, to – I agree. I love 4 bikes and wanna make sure it's safe for people to cross back and forth underneath the train 5 tracks but let's do it without taking our neighbors' houses at the end of the day. And it sounds 6 like there are different ways to make that happen. I haven't read the full consultant report of all 7 the different variations but I did read the one about the eight and I think that A, viable. It 8 doesn't – just takes a parking lot. Not a big deal. And then if you go all the way down to G and 9 H, there are some complications with those but it doesn't take people's houses. But B and C 10 takes people's houses. D and E takes people's houses. F takes people's houses. Those alternates 11 are just – it stinks, right? You live here all your life. You just wanna live your life. And if 12 somebody buys your house through eminent domain, you can't really afford to go buy another 13 house in Palo Alto. It just doesn't work that way. Once you're out, you're out. So please 14 continue doing your due diligence. Let's make sure that our people can get safely back and 15 forth but also let's na-, not take our neighbors' houses. Thank you. 16 17 Chair Akin: Thank you, Mr. Thomas. Do we have any other comments? 18 19 Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, I have no other public comments. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Akin: Very good. 2 3 Agenda Changes, Additions and Deletions 4 The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 5 6 Chair Akin: Assistant Director Armer, do we have any agenda changes, additions, or deletions? 7 8 Assistant Director Jennifer Armer: No changes. 9 10 Chair Akin: Oh. Pardon me? Was there a – ah, yes. Sorry I missed your light, Commissioner 11 Hechtman. 12 13 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. Thank you. Just a question to Ms. Armer. The plans that were 14 discussed in the public comment, are those going to be coming to the Planning Commission? 15 And if so, do we know what season we might see them? 16 17 Chief Transportation Official Ria Lo: Hello. Ria Hutabarat Lo, Chief Transportation Official. This – 18 I think that the project that they're referring to is the South Palo Alto Connectivity Project and 19 that – we plan to bring that to PTC in November. 20 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. 1 2 Chair Akin: And just to clarify, we did have – we didn't view that while you were out as well. All 3 right. Picking back up again. Assistant Director Armer, do we have any agenda changes, 4 additions, or deletions? 5 6 Jennifer Armer: No. We do not. 7 8 City Official Reports 9 1. Directors Report, Meeting Schedule and Assignments 10 11 Chair Akin: All right. It's time for the official reports and we'll begin with you, Ms. Armer. 12 13 Jennifer Armer: Thank you. As usual, just a brief presentation about your upcoming meetings, 14 so the next slide. Your next two meetings will be on October 8th and October 29th. On the 8th, 15 we are scheduled to bring back to you the proposed project at 660 University Avenue as well as 16 consideration of a zoning code amendment request in regards to grandfathered uses, 17 sometimes referenced as the shrink wrap rule. It will be an interesting discussion. Then on the 18 29th, we have the potential of having three items, though some of them will be relatively short 19 presentations, the first being a presentation by SamTrans about the Grand Boulevard Project 20 and effort. This is something that has been along El Camino Real more broadly but at this time 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. is just in San Mateo but includes – because there is the SamTrans connection to Palo Alto, 1 includes that. Also an update about Palo Alto Link and bringing back to you for initial discussion 2 the Retail Revitalization as we work towards a permanent ordinance on that. On the next slide, 3 we then have some of the items that are going to Council or recently went. The conditional use 4 permit recommended by the PTC for 400 Mitchell Lane was approved on Consent by Council 5 and they held their prescreening for 414 California Avenue on September 15th. And on 6 Monday, September 29th, they are scheduled to have a couple of Consent Calendar items that 7 are relevant to your work. No attendance by the liaison is needed at that meeting. And then on 8 October 6, City Council is scheduled to have their first look at the San Antonio Road Area Plan, a 9 follow-up to all of the Commission and board and committee meetings that we've been having 10 on that effort. And that concludes my presentation but I'm available for questions. And we do 11 have the Chief Transportation Official here as well. 12 13 Ria Lo: [Inaudible 26:36]. So in terms of transportation updates, we have a couple of things that 14 are going to Council in the near future. Quarry Road Extension. This is a project that was related 15 to a ballot measure. There will be an MOU with Stanford going to the City Council on 16 September 29th. A grade separation project. This is scheduled for a community meeting for 17 Churchill/Seal in addition to Meadow and Charleston and those are scheduled for September 18 30th. There's one at 4 p.m. and then one at 6 p.m. for the different locations. And then the 19 Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan. We plan to bring that in November. Also, we're in 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Safe Routes to School/back to school season. There's a lot of bike rodeos and other safety 1 activities happening at the moment. 2 3 Chair Akin: Thank you, Ms. Lo. So questions for – from Commissioners for our staff, beginning 4 with Commissioner Templeton. 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: I have a couple of questions for you but first, you just mentioned 7 bike rodeos and I heard from a certain Girl Scout Gold Project graduate that the bike project 8 that she initiated with Palo Alto has just opened. Do you wanna say anything about that? 9 10 Ria Lo: Yes. Thank you. Sorry. I should've added that to my list. So we have – the City has 11 opened the bi-, traffic garden at Ventura Community Center. This was a project that was 12 initiated by a student, Nara Cammack. I think that's how you pronounce her name. And she'll be 13 receiving a proclamation from City Council and I think that is also – is that the 29th as well? I'm 14 not sure what the date is but sometime the next couple of Council meetings. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: That's pretty amazing and I don't know if the Commissioners that 17 were here at the time remember when she came to present it to us and try to find some 18 support and she found it with the Transportation Department and the bike team and it's really 19 wonderful that that has happened. Thank you for mentioning the commendation. The other 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. thing I wanted to mention is something I haven't seen before but the way it played out today 1 felt like maybe it happens more often that I wanted to just mention to you and we can follow 2 up with it. I was at the Churchill intersection. And most times, I'm with Alma – most times I go 3 through that, there's a train, and so I understand what the traffic situation is but this was a time 4 in which no train was involved and there was a backlog of people trying to go forward, so the 5 whole street was backed from El Camino all the way to Alma and the people trying to proceed 6 across Alma towards El Camino were unable to get through. And so they were sitting through 7 the light and the people behind them who wanted to turn left didn't wanna wait, so three or 8 four cars went around them in the lane for traffic going the other direction to bypass them. And 9 it was a little scary to watch because the people that were going straight were trying not to be 10 stuck on the train tracks, unable to move but there was a lot of pressure from behind them to 11 get out of the way so people could turn left. So I just wanted to mention that since that's a use 12 case that is pretty dangerous for the people that were on bikes, the pedestrians. It was a very 13 busy intersection this time of day, especially now that school's back in session, so I don't know 14 if that's something that you'd like us to talk about with the community or you would just want 15 to proceed with looking at recommendations to make it safer but I thought I'd bring it up. 16 Thank you. 17 18 Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner Templeton. Commissioner Ji. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. Speaking of being blocked between Alma and El Camino, I 1 also had that experience today but at a different intersection, at the Meadow intersection, 2 which, as the commissioners know, I live over there. And I previously mentioned, and I believe 3 Commissioner Templeton also had this experience, where if we – now that the signal is on, I 4 guess, the El Camino side of the train tracks, it doesn't necessarily always trigger the signal. And 5 so on my way here today, I waited through multiple signals where there was no movement 6 until we had a pedestrian hit the signal button at the bottom and that triggered the greens for 7 the – going from the El Camino side across onto Alma. So that's something to look into. And 8 then I had another questions about – this is more of a general question, we can take it offline as 9 well – about the different routes that we're selecting for Safe Routes to School in terms of I – in 10 a previous version of the Bike/Ped Plan, we identified certain intersections at le-, of Level of 11 Transit Stress 4 but some of those are still on the Safe Routes to School, so it's just kind of a 12 general comment. One that comes particularly to mind is the intersection at El Camino Way and 13 El Camino on the Los Robles side. Currently, that is identified as a Level of Transit Stress 4 but I 14 personally used to bike through El Camino Way and I'm worried about potential increased 15 congestion or if we're still labeling that as a safe route to school and any changes we have 16 there. So just – since that – you mentioned that as a topic, I just also want to bring up my 17 concern about that. But happy to chat more about my experience offline as well. 18 19 Chair Akin: Commissioner Templeton. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. I just wanna support those comments. I would really like 2 to work on safety improvement. This is the intersection I used to walk every day to get my son 3 from Barron Park to school and I witnessed a collision with two girls that were biking to Gunn. It 4 really needs to be dealt with but I understand it requires inter-agency cooperation, so trust that 5 Senator Becker's office is ready when you are to talk about these things. So if there's any things 6 that we want to work on there, that's the connection that the Council has or that the staff has 7 to be able to work those out. I'm not speaking on his behalf. I do no longer work on his staff but 8 I do know that they would like us to share any needs we have with them. Thank you. 9 10 Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Ji. 11 12 Commissioner Ji: Sorry. One other comment on that. Since the addition of the Key School also 13 in that corner, it's become exceptionally busy kind of on El Camino Way onto El Camino. And I 14 really appreciate the no right turn on red, although it's a little bit more frustrating as a driver 15 but there just are so many kids there, that I think it's important to have that. I just wanna say 16 those things. Thank you, Office of Transportation. 17 18 Chair Akin: Any other questions for Ms. Armer or Ms. Lo? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. STUDY SESSION 1 Public Comment is Permitted. Three (3) minutes per speaker. 2 3 2. Review of the Final Conceptual Design for the Permanent Installation of the Crescent 4 Park Traffic Calming Project – Bulbout on Southwood and East Crescent Drive. CEQA 5 Status: Exempt under CEQA Guidelines Section 15301. 6 7 Chair Akin: Seeing none, I believe it is time to proceed to our first agenda item, a study session 8 to review the final conceptual design for the portion of the Crescent Park Traffic Calming 9 Project at Southwood and East Crescent. 10 11 Ria Lo: So I'll be presenting this item and providing also a bit of context to the work as well. And 12 you can move to the next one. 13 14 Chair Akin: Pardon me. Yes. We will have the staff presentation first and then clarifying 15 questions if anyone on the Commission has them. And then it will be time for public comment, 16 so I'll give you a heads up when we're getting close. 17 18 Ria Lo: We can move to the next slide. Actually, you can move to the next one as well. You can 19 move to the – okay. So the goal of this item is to provide an opportunity for PTC to review the 20 final concept plans for the permanent installation of the Crescent Park Traffic Calming Project 21 and also to close the loop from a prior PTC meeting in April, when PTC had asked co-, staff to 22 meet with residents and then return with an update. So to provide some context on this issue, 23 traffic calming in general and traffic – and Palo Alto's Traffic Calming Program specifically aims 24 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. to improve pedestrian and bicycle safety and neighborhood livability by reducing traffic speeds, 1 crashes, and cut-through traffic on particularly local streets but also collectors as well. 2 3 So there's some foundational concepts. One of them is the public right of way needs to serve 4 multiple functions and so it needs to work for a diverse range of users, including pedestrians, 5 bicyclists, and drivers and also provide clear cues for how to use a space, where to travel, 6 where to look, and how fast to move. And so the design speed is also a foundational concept as 7 well and the concept of risk homeostasis. So these concepts kind of go hand in hand. So for 8 example, instead of having a very wide roadway and corners with a very large turning radius, 9 which you could safely travel on as a driver at very high speed, the concept of design speed and 10 risk homeostasis is to narrow things up, square things up a bit so that the cues for drivers are to 11 approach the space a little bit more slowly, a bit more cautiously, and be looking out for other 12 types of users and also to have points where you really slow down and kind of observe where 13 people are coming from and going to. You can go to the next slide. 14 15 In terms of Crescent Park, the project was initiated in 2018 and I – so I apologize. This is 16 probably recap for most of you. And then there was pilot implementation in 2021, after going 17 to both – to the community, to PTC, and to Council and also, of course, the analysis and design 18 that goes into that. In 2022, there was an evaluation and community engagement, which 19 resulted in more than 70 percent support for the improvements to be made permanent. In 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 2023, June, the item came to PTC and was recommended to – for – to Council to proceed with 1 permanent – with the design for the permanent installation. And it went to Council in 2 November of that year and Council provided approval for the concept designs to proceed to 3 engineering design for permanent installation. So staff will be moving on to the engineering 4 design and in the interim, we've come back a couple of times and done some supplementary 5 community engagement and refined the designs a little bit and we can refine them a little bit 6 more as we go into the engineering design. And so that happened in April of 2024 and actually 7 also April of 2025. I understand that there's some consternation about – this is a study session 8 today and the reason why this is labeled as a study session is because we already received 9 Council approval to proceed to the next steps, and so no action is required from PTC or from 10 the Council. That doesn't mean that we don't have leeway to refine some of the design details 11 as we move into the engineering design. And so within the framework of Council direction, staff 12 can make some of those design detail improvements. 13 14 So in terms of the actual pilot, this is – there's a couple of locations. The first one is Southwood 15 and Crescent intersection. So you can see before the pilot on the left. It's a very, very wide 16 intersection. This corner on the right has a corner radius of seems like more than 100 feet. And 17 typically, what is recommended is between 10 and 20, in order to help motorists to slow down. 18 So it's a really – you can take this corner at a very high speed or could take it back in the day. 19 Also, very long crossing distance for pedestrians crossing from one side to the other. And so on 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the right-hand side, we have – with the pilot installation, you have a new stop sign and then the 1 bulbout's – it's quite a large bulbout at the moment. And it squares up – what the goal there is 2 to square up the intersection so that motorists know that you can't just take that corner very 3 quickly because there's also motorists coming from Southwood, so that could be a collision 4 point as well and also, there's the stop signs as well to indic-, to help – pardon me – to help 5 motorists to understand that the right of way should be on the Southwood side. 6 7 For the other location at Center Southwood and Hamilton, the before condition is shown on the 8 left. It's a vast intersection with a lot of streets converging, a lot of different conflict points and 9 unclear right of ways. And then on the right-hand side is the pilot condition with a roundabout 10 and there's some temporary materials for kind of helping to channelize the motorists as they're 11 approaching the intersection. And roundabouts are a proven safety – actually, both these 12 things are proven safety countermeasures. They function to reduce speeds and to help to 13 inform drivers and provide the cues of where things are coming from and where things are 14 going to. So next slide. 15 16 So just to recap, I understand that some of you are on PTC at this time but in terms of the pilot 17 evaluation, the design successfully incorporated a number of proven safety countermeasures, 18 including the narrower crossing distances, the corner radii, squaring up the intersection, and 19 roundabouts. There was also substantial reduction in vehicle volumes and also that was an – in 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. absolute terms as well as comparing to controls. There was a small reduction in vehicle speeds 1 and also that was a larger reduction than comparing to the controls. And also a super majority 2 of community support for the – for making these improvements permanent. Transportation 3 projects always involve a balance of competing interests and different uses of the right of way. 4 And so typically, for traffic calming, staff would be very happy with a 60 percent support rate, 5 so these levels of support are – we consider these to be very high levels of support given all the 6 different interests and perspectives in the community. Next slide. 7 8 In terms of the permanent installation – the concept design for the permanent installation. For 9 the – the idea is – actually, this should be Number 2. That's fine. So Number 2 at Hamilton, 10 Center, and Southwood. It's basically converting the temporary materials into permanent 11 materials, so there would be concrete channelizers at each of those locations and then the 12 roundabout was – there's concrete around it and plus landscaping. 13 14 For the other location, which is location Number 1, Southwood Drive and East Crescent, similar 15 concept to t-, convert the – oh, next slide – to convert the materials from temporary to 16 permanent and to provide also landscaping materials. And there are four key design 17 refinements that have been made since this design as well. So first of all, one of them is 18 reducing the size of the curb extension so it's a smoother turn for motorists. So you can see on 19 the left here is what we have as the pilot installation and it actually kind of juts out into the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. street and so kind of pulling that back about five feet on the right-hand side as well is proposed 1 to provide a little bit more space but while still achieving the project's goals of improving safety. 2 Secondly, adding a pedestrian platform. So you can see near the [inaudible 43:46] the vehicle 3 shown in this image, there's a pedestrian platform. This is similar to other neighborhoods 4 throughout the city, where pedestrians can access vehicles from the sidewalk. Thirdly, adjusting 5 the curb alignment to accommodate on-street parking and passenger loading post AB 413. So 6 AB 413 does not allow vehicles to be parked within 20 feet of the approach of an intersection 7 and if there's a curb – a bulbout, then it's a 15-feet distance. And so if the curb ramp was in the 8 former position, then you actually couldn't park in that location, based on AB 413. And then 9 fourthly, also, the project incorporates some drought-tolerant and low-height landscaping to 10 improve visibility and aesthetics and aligned with neighborhood character. This also has 11 potential to increase the permeable surfaces as well, which has stormwater benefits. 12 13 We understand there's some anxiety and that not 100 percent of people are in favor of these 14 improvements and that's very normal for transportation projects. We're trying to balance 15 different issues and it's an in-fill city, so we don't have all the space in the world to make 16 improvements, so it's kind of working within what we have, the space that we have. And the 17 project also involves change, which is always – there's an adjustment period for the community 18 as well. Staff does recommend moving forward to the engineering design. And because the 19 project has demonstrated success in achieving its goals, further delays to the project will 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. increase construction costs and also, there are diminishing returns in terms of the potential 1 refinement of the design details. We can incorporate some more design details refinements as 2 we move into engineering design but I think there are diminishing returns in turn and there's 3 also some opportunity costs because staff would like to move on to other projects as well, so – 4 we are very understaffed at the moment, so I think that that's also something worth 5 considering. 6 7 So in terms of the next steps, they would include preparing 100 percent engineering drawings 8 to incorporate those design refinements that I referred to, initiating a construction phase for 9 permanent installation and returning to Council for a review of the construction contract. I'll 10 note that Palo Alto has really been a pioneer in the area of traffic calming and has really kind of 11 led the way nationally in terms of traffic calming improvements. And this is also – those 12 improvements are part of what makes Palo Alto such a great place to walk and to bike and kind 13 of the good balance of all the modes here. We are confident that this traffic calming work in 14 Crescent Park can help to continue that tradition, can balance the needs of different uses and, 15 again, improve safety and reduce cut-through traffic and they continue to do that in this 16 neighborhood. Thank you. 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Akin: Thank you, Ms. Lo. That was very useful. All right. Clarifying questions from the 1 Commission? I have Commissioner Templeton, Commissioner James, and Commissioner 2 Hechtman, in that order. 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for a lovely presentation and I 5 appreciate all of the guidance on how to interpret this project. I've been here since the very 6 beginning and I think the conver-, all the conversations we've had have been productive. So at 7 first, I wanna just clarify what do you mean, "pilot"? 8 9 Ria Lo: What I mean by pilot is that it's an interim – we're using interim materials and trying out 10 the treatments in these locations. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: Is it like a proof of concept? 13 14 Ria Lo: I think that's what pilot typically means, yes. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. We'll come back to that later. I'm just clarifying what you 17 mean by that. 18 19 Ria Lo: Mm-hm. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: Also, can we come back to the chart that you showed about 2 neighborhood support? Yes. This one. What is the N in these? How many people were involved 3 in providing this feedback? 4 5 Ria Lo: Oh, I'm not sure. Let me see. I think there's a couple of people online who may be able 6 to... 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: So it looks like, for the Southwood/Crescent, it could be four people, 9 with one disagreeing and three agreeing, so we'd need to know – since it's not exactly 25 and 10 75, it's unlikely that that's the number but it would be helpful to know and we can also come 11 back to that later. It'd be a question I would love to have an answer to later. And did you do any 12 filtering at all on the type of people that you received responses from? For example, people 13 whose access to their home was being affected versus people who were not being affected and 14 – I assume it's people who use the intersection, not people that would be filterable in any other 15 way. 16 17 Ria Lo: So the Traffic Calming Program has guidance on who to incorporate, so it's not 18 everybody who's using the intersection. It's just [inaudible 49:40]. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: Oh, I don't need an explanation. I... 1 2 Ria Lo: Okay. 3 4 Commissioner Templeton:...just wanna know... 5 6 Ria Lo: Okay. 7 8 Commissioner Templeton:...who it is. 9 10 Ria Lo: Okay. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: If you don't know, we can come back to that when you have the 13 information but I wanna know what neighborhood support means because that will very likely 14 come into play in our discussion, so if we could get a clearer answer of what neighborhood 15 support means, that would be super helpful for the rest of our conversation. 16 17 Ria Lo: Yeah. 18 19 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you very much. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner James. 2 3 Commissioner James: Yes. Thank you. My man-on-the-street sort of view of this is that 4 everybody wants the same outcome. And largely what the sticking point is – or one of them, 5 anyway – is frankly, just the appearance and how sort of big the bulbout is compared to what it 6 was before. And I guess – I know there's just an awful lot of sort of guidance and standards and 7 restrictions on ramps and whether they need to be straight or where they need to be and so 8 forth but I actually brought my French curve from drafting. And I know there's a whole lotta 9 ways that you can connect two points. 10 11 Ria Lo: Mm-hm. 12 13 Commissioner James: And I guess my question is, are we sure – or is there – how could we get 14 to the result we need with the minimum amount of bulbout? Is there – have we looked at that 15 – it seems to follow the street line from Southwood Drive but is that essential? Is there some 16 other way to connect that outer point and that stop sign to the curb that would just slim it 17 down even more? I know you've slimmed it down already but I just wonder if there's some kind 18 of radical solution that would still have it functioning... 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ria Lo: Mm-hm. 1 2 Commissioner James: ...and just – I feel like maybe we've looked at the engineering from – 3 strictly from a function standpoint and is there anything more we can do from an aesthetic 4 design standpoint... 5 6 Ria Lo: Mm-hm. 7 8 Commissioner James: ...that would achieve the same goal but maybe be more respectful to the 9 front yard where – of the gentleman whose house is right here at this bulb. So that's really my 10 question. I mean, I would love to get some insight into whether – is that doable? Is that naïve? 11 Is it – is there some other, more graceful line that would still pass the point of slowing the 12 traffic that would make that more aesthetically pleasing? 13 14 Ria Lo: I think that's possible. I think we can take another look at the size of the bulbout. Yeah. 15 And also on the N, it was 114. 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you very much. Anything about the filters? 18 19 Ria Lo: Not yet. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 2 3 Chair Akin: Anything else, Commissioner James? 4 5 Commissioner James: No, thank you. 6 7 Chair Akin: I have Commissioner Hechtman, Vice Chair Chang, Commissioner Peterson, and 8 then Commissioner Ji. So Commissioner Hechtman, you're up. 9 10 Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. The design that the Council has authorized the 11 Transportation Department to move forward with, is that the same design that we saw the last 12 time it was at the PTC or were there modifications after it left us? 13 14 Ria Lo: So the modifications would be incorporated into the engineering design but what was 15 planned in terms of additional modifications is to straighten that curb slightly where the 16 platform is. Actually, can you go [inaudible 53:44]? 17 18 Male: It's Slide 10, I think. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ria Lo: Okay. Sounds good. So that you can pull up flush with the curb and make sure that you 1 can stop right there on the side. Yeah. Right... 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: The driveway? 4 5 Ria Lo: ...where that vehicle is, to make sure that you can get the car all the way to the curb and 6 – like at a bus stop, for example. 7 8 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. That's helpful. Next question, the staff report packet 9 page 10 describes – and we're looking at the image now. This extension from the sidewalk to 10 the blue car is referred to as a concrete pad... 11 12 Ria Lo: Mm-hm. 13 14 Commissioner Hechtman:...and I just wanted to make sure I understand the term. So that's – 15 it's a flat piece of concrete that connects the sidewalk and basically terminates at the curb, 16 which is a standard curb. Is that right? 17 18 Ria Lo: Yes. Could you go to Slide 19? The – we have a lot of these throughout the city. So here 19 are a couple of examples. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Yeah. All right. So I do understand the term correctly. All right. 2 And then the last sort of clarifying question. It's clear from the staff report that the engineering 3 department – one of their constraints or guidelines is this needs to be ADA compliant... 4 5 Ria Lo: Yes. 6 7 Commissioner Hechtman: ...and the staff report declares that it is. And I believe it is but I'm 8 wondering – I think it might be helpful to the Commission if you can help us understand how it's 9 ADA compliant. And so the question I had is how does a mobility-impaired person at this 10 location get from the sidewalk into a car at this location, using, presumably, that concrete 11 ramp? So maybe just kind of walk us through those steps. 12 13 Ria Lo: So they would pull up to the vehicle and be able to step on – as if they were stepping 14 onto a bus. 15 16 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Can we go back to Slide 10? All right. So this may just be the 17 scale or the drawing is inexact but to me, it looks like this concrete ramp will meet the car kind 18 of in the middle of the front passenger-side fender. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ria Lo: Mm-hm. 1 2 Commissioner Hechtman: ...so that if I open the door at that location, the door is basically 3 gonna be blocking the concrete ramp. And so again, it could be just the way this drawing is 4 done but to be consistent with what your intention is, a car could pull up like this blue car is. It 5 could open the front door, and a disabled person could move from the concrete ramp into the 6 passenger seat. Is that the idea? 7 8 Ria Lo: That is the idea. And the location of the pad is based on the current location of the 9 ramp, so perhaps that could be tweaked slightly... 10 11 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. So... 12 13 Ria Lo: ...and angled slightly different but it... 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: So I would – that perhaps should be looked at because my 16 impression is this was the intent of the design and so we want to make sure that the intent 17 meets the reality. 18 19 Ria Lo: Yep. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: Those are my clarifying questions. Thank you. 2 3 Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner. Vice Chair Chang. 4 5 Vice Chair Chang: So my first question is about AB 413. So let's say that there were no bulbouts 6 and the current sidewalks were maintained. Does AB 413 then require us just to update the 7 ramp if no additional work is being done? 8 9 Ria Lo: Yeah. We would need to update the ramp because we would be removing the stop sign 10 that's there at the moment and so the current ramp is not consistent with current ADA 11 standards. I think it was probably consistent with the standards at the time. 12 13 Vice Chair Chang: But don't we have ramps all over the city that are not consistent? And so 14 what is it [inaudible 58:30]? 15 16 Ria Lo: Because we're doing – 'cause when you do work, then you need to bring things up to 17 standard, up to code. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: Right. But if we weren't doing any work because there were no berm there or 1 no bulbout, then do we still need to bring it up to standard? 2 3 Ria Lo: My understanding is that removing the stop sign or that sort of thing would still be 4 considered work. That's my understanding of the requirement. 5 6 Vice Chair Chang: But if we kept the stop sign because that's the whole point, we wanna slow 7 the traffic down, then there would be no work. Is that correct? 8 9 Ria Lo: So we would be mov-, I mean, if you're removing the bulbout, the stop sign is actually in 10 the street if we're going back to the original design of the street. 11 12 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. 13 14 Ria Lo: Yeah. 15 16 Vice Chair Chang: So because the stop sign would need to be moved, then that would be 17 considered – be doing work on the entire intersection, in which case, any ramp leading to the 18 intersection would need to be updated. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ria Lo: That's my understanding. 1 2 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. That's helpful. My second question is, could you go to the 3 data slide with the 2-bar chart? And I wanna ask, is that the same data that the PTC saw on 4 June 14th, '23? Yes. That is the same data. 5 6 Ria Lo: That's my... 7 8 Vice Chair Chang: And... 9 10 Ria Lo: ...understanding. 11 12 Vice Chair Chang: ...then it was collected in fall of 2022. Is that... 13 14 Ria Lo: Yes. 15 16 Vice Chair Chang: ...correct? 17 18 Ria Lo: Yes. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: So at the time, both the report, they're – the Fehr & Peers report said that we 1 can't separate the pandemic and project effects and that was confirmed by Mr. – the engineer, 2 Mr. Bhatia, who presented... 3 4 Ria Lo: Mm-hm. 5 6 Vice Chair Chang: ...to us at the time, saying that we can't say with great certainty that the 7 effects of the reduction in vehicle volumes and their potential reduction in vehicle speed were 8 due to the – were actually due to the project. Is this the only data that we have demonstrating 9 the success of the pilot? 10 11 Ria Lo: I believe so. 12 13 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. 14 15 Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Peterson. 16 17 Commissioner Peterson: So a quick question. I looked through here and I thought I had saw it. 18 Where's the table with the number of vehicle trips per day broken down into morning and 19 evening? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ria Lo: That would be from the report in 2023 and it was in the Fehr & Peers attachment to that 2 report. 3 4 Commissioner Peterson: Do we have that in the packet? 5 6 Jennifer Armer: It would be referenced in the packet. It wasn't an attachment to this report. 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: Like full... 9 10 Ria Lo: [Inaudible 1:01:22]. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: ...referenced or... 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: Right. That's what I was getting as if – do I have [inaudible 1:01:26]? I 15 wasn't here in 2023, so... 16 17 Jennifer Armer: So on packet page 10, there are links to where you can find those previous 18 reports, including the November 6th, 2023, Council Report online. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: Page 10. And... 1 2 Commissioner Templeton: Packet page 9. [Inaudible 1:01:50]. 3 4 Commissioner Peterson: Nine. 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: And it's in the – yep. 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: [Inaudible 1:01:54]. Okay. 9 10 Jennifer Armer: Correct. There are links on packet page 9 and packet page 10. 11 12 Commissioner Peterson: [Inaudible 1:02:01]. Can you – okay. Can you give me the number? It's 13 in the footnote, right? Are we talking about Footnote 3, 4, 5, or 6? Just so I don't have to click 14 on all of them. 15 16 Jennifer Armer: Footnotes 1 and 2 on the first page of the staff report. 17 18 Commissioner Peterson: One and two. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: And Footnotes – looks like they're labeled 5 and 6 on the second page of the 1 staff report. 2 3 Commissioner Peterson: Do we know which one of those has the report or should I just look 4 through them? 5 6 Female: [Inaudible 1:02:29]. 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: Actually... 9 10 Jennifer Armer: Oh. 11 12 Commissioner Peterson: ...it – could we... 13 14 Ria Lo: Well, I think... 15 16 Commissioner Peterson: ...when we... 17 18 Ria Lo: ...it was the June 14th, 2023. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: When we come back for discussion on it, can we... 1 2 Ria Lo: Yeah. 3 4 Commissioner Peterson: ...just put it up on the screen maybe? Maybe that's the easier way. 5 6 Ria Lo: Okay. [Inaudible 1:02:47]. 7 8 Jennifer Armer: We can try and locate it. 9 10 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 11 12 Jennifer Armer: Yep. 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. 15 16 Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Ji. 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. My question is similar to Vice Chair Chang's. Do you mind 1 pulling up the slide with the blue car that we keep talking about? I'm just gonna start asking my 2 question so we can... 3 4 Female: Mm-hm. 5 6 Commissioner Ji: ...be prepared. Do you mind kind of telling us a little bit more about what the 7 – so kind of in line with the Vice Chair Chang's question, what – if we didn't do any work look 8 like here? And how – which sections are impacted by the state bill? 9 10 Ria Lo: Are impacted by – say that again? 11 12 Commissioner Ji: And which – so you s-, I think you mentioned 15 feet with the bulbout. Can 13 you just help me understand if we did no work on this section, what the kind of current state 14 would be? 15 16 Ria Lo: So to go back to something which is kind of resembling the original, you would eliminate 17 the stop signs and you would eliminate the bulbouts and that pad that is near where the car is, 18 that would become the curb ramp, so you would need to t-, make that ADA compliant and then 19 that becomes the crosswalk, so that would be – there would be a crosswalk from there to the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. other side, and so then you would need a 20-foot section for the approach of that where you 1 couldn't park. 2 3 Commissioner Ji: And also – so okay. Here. So I'm just gonna hopefully draw really quickly. 4 Sorry, folks. The drawing workshop will happen soon. Okay. Let me undo that. Okay. So what 5 you're saying here is that then this would become a – is that visible? 6 7 Ria Lo: Yes. 8 9 Male: Yes. 10 11 Commissioner Ji: Okay. So this would become the crosswalk. Is that correct? 12 13 Ria Lo: Yes. 14 15 Commissioner Ji: And then we would basically have a no-parking zone over here. Just wait for it 16 to show up. 17 18 Ria Lo: Yep. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Ji: So of 20 feet... 1 2 Ria Lo: Yes. 3 4 Commissioner Ji: ...because there's no bulbout. 5 6 Ria Lo: Correct. 7 8 Commissioner Ji: ...at the – in the previous. Okay. And then also in front of this section, would 9 there be any impact as well? Is there no parking in front of the intersection? 10 11 Ria Lo: Correct. Because that would be considered inside the box of the intersection. 12 13 Commissioner Ji: Okay. And that would also be 20 feet? 14 15 Ria Lo: No. You can't park inside an intersection. 16 17 Commissioner Ji: Oh. I guess yes. 18 19 Ria Lo: Yeah. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Ji: Even though it's – yes because – I understand. Okay. So with that – and then – 2 okay. So i-, with – is there a world in which, for example, we actually don't have a bulbout but 3 then we just put a crosswalk say over here and then the crossing is like this? And then the blue 4 car is now outside the intersection and this distance here is more than 20, and so then we can 5 keep whatever's there? Is that a possibility? 6 7 Ria Lo: I think anything is a possibility but this might not achieve the project goals because you 8 have that initial issue of the very wide turning radius and the [inaudible 1:06:15]. 9 10 Commissioner Ji: Okay. So it would still have the impact of the radius but if we were to put a 11 stop sign there, hypothetically people would stop at the stop sign? 12 13 Ria Lo: Yeah. That's a possibility. 14 15 Commissioner Ji: So okay. So I guess I'm just wondering if this – if all the math worked out here 16 that – such that you could put a ramp at wherever the original s-, the spot identified over here, 17 then you could hypo-, then would the ramp that's now being filled in, would that have to have 18 work be done to it? 'Cause Vice Chair Chang's comment is that the work is being done on the 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. intersection but if we put the – a ramp on the far side, would that ramp still need to get filled in 1 because it's now outside the intersection? 2 3 Ria Lo: Yeah. But the City doesn't provide ramps where we don't recommend it – that 4 pedestrians cross because it sends the wrong cutes in terms of where you cross the street. 5 6 Commissioner Ji: But right now, there already exists a ramp so we – so even if we decide to – 7 that this now ramp is outside of the intersection, we would still need to fill it in. Yeah. 8 9 Male: [Inaudible 1:07:20]. 10 11 Commissioner Ji: Sorry. Yeah. 12 13 Male: [Inaudible 1:07:21]. 14 15 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. That's all. Yep. 16 17 Chair Akin: All right. I will jump in here with my one clarifying question and then we'll move on 18 to Commissioner Templeton. So at some point, I would like to understand the regulatory 19 context a little better because what I'm hearing, I think, is that now that the pilot project has 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. been built, there is no possible way forward that doesn't involve eliminating the ramp that Mr. 1 Girand currently uses. Is that correct? 2 3 Ria Lo: Yeah. I think that's my understanding. 4 5 Chair Akin: Okay. 6 7 Ria Lo: Yeah. 8 9 Chair Akin: I don't need this immediately... 10 11 Ria Lo: Yeah. 12 13 Chair Akin: ...but for future reference, it would be nice to know the regulatory basis for that so 14 that we can... 15 16 Ria Lo: [Inaudible 1:08:13]. 17 18 Chair Akin: ...apply it to projects in the future. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ria Lo: Okay. Yeah. It's to do with ADA, so this was the direction that we got in relation to ADA. 1 2 Chair Akin: Right. But I just – I find it difficult to believe that a case like this is actually covered 3 explicitly by ADA, so there must be some train of reasoning that justifies it and I'm just curious 4 as to what that is. 5 6 Ria Lo: Okay. 7 8 Assistant City Attorney Albert Yang: So I can address that briefly and I think it's what the 9 director mentioned earlier, which is we don't have an obligation to immediately bring all of our 10 intersections up to code – up to current ADA standards. But when we are doing some capital 11 work on an intersection, at that point, we do have to bring everything up. So in this 12 intersection, there were temporary changes installed and, in some way, we are going to have to 13 convert those temporary measures into a permanent configuration. And so that work, 14 whatever it is, with whatever the permanent configuration looks like, is going to be work that 15 triggers bringing everything in that intersection up to the current ADA standard. 16 17 Chair Akin: Right. That's the easy case. The question that I’m driving at there is if it's returned to 18 its original configuration so that there is, in effect, no work done, is it still the case that we need 19 to upgrade the ramps to meet ADA requirements? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Albert Yang: Yes, because returning it to its original configuration is, in itself, work. 2 3 Chair Akin: Okay. And at some point in the future, I could use a reference, just so I can get 4 educated about the consequences of that. No need for it at the moment. All right. 5 Commissioner Templeton. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: Yeah. I had originally pressed that button because I wanted to speak 8 after public comment but now that you've asked those questions, I have another clarifying 9 question. I'm gonna go back to my first question. What do you mean by "pilot"? Because now it 10 sounds like you mean permanent from the beginning. Any alterations at all to the intersection 11 now start a whole cascade of changes that are now required to be – you can't stay or revert 12 back to the original state. Is that now what you mean by "pilot"? 13 14 Ria Lo: Well, I think that they're interim but it is trying out the proof of concept with a – with 15 minimal cost. 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Right. But y-, but with the understanding that the commitment has 18 not yet been made. And what you're saying is any work at all was an implied commitment that 19 the intersection will be brought up to code. And I just wanna make sure that we're all on the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. same page because I think that is the source of the confusion and I would love for you to clarify 1 that and then we can go to public comment and I would have my – rest of my comments at that 2 time. I would love for you to clarify... 3 4 Ria Lo: Oh. 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: ...that. 7 8 Ria Lo: Okay. So the pilot is – provides interim improvements to try out a concept with minimal 9 cost but we do need to comply with ADA, so that's kind of been, I think, the tricky thing for this 10 project is that then reverting, we still need to comply with ADA... 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: So when... 13 14 Ria Lo: ...because that is what [inaudible 1:11:50]. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: ...you say "try out" I mean [inaudible 1:11:56]. 17 18 Albert Yang: Look, it's one of the features... 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, Albert... 1 2 Albert Yang: ...of the ADA... 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: ...for jumping in. 5 6 Albert Yang: ...that you can't – that – I guess what you're pointing out is one of the features of 7 the ADA is that you can't – and so you can't retain the noncompliance. You can't try something 8 out and also keep a noncompliant feature. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you for clarifying that. I think that is definitely something we 11 should talk more about when we get to the discussion phase. Thank you. 12 13 Chair Akin: Any further clarifying questions? All right. If not, then it is time for public comment. 14 We have three minutes per speaker or 15 minutes for a group of five or more if there are any 15 groups tonight. So Mr. Tavera, do we have public speakers waiting? 16 17 Samuel Tavera: Yes. Through the Chair, we have, at the moment, four public speakers, one in 18 person and three via Zoom. I'll invite our first public speaker to the mic. It is James G. James G., 19 you may now speak. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 James Girand: My name is Jim Girand and I'm the co-owner of the home at 590 East Crescent 2 Drive. East Crescent is a narrow tree-lined street shaded by magnolias, one of the most 3 beautiful streets in Palo Alto. My wife Nita and I moved here after – excuse me – after leaving 4 the Air Force. I was an early employee of Hewlett-Packard. After nearly two decades of hard 5 work, we were able, finally, to purchase this home, Nita's dream house. She lovingly restored 6 and expanded it and we raised three daughters here. For many years, it was the heart of our 7 happy family. Nita and I [inaudible 1:13:44] the Saint Mark's Episcopal Church in Palo Alto 8 where I still attend. Nita passed away after a brave battle with cancer. Since then, I've faced my 9 own health issues. I can no longer drive and I rely on caregivers. I still make it to the Palo Alto Y 10 to stay active and connected. I only learned about the berm project the day the temporary 11 structure went up in front of my house. No one from the City, the Office of Transportation, or 12 Greg Welch, who calls himself a neighborhood representative, contacted me. That's hard to 13 believe, especially since I've since learned two – that two similar projects in Crescent Park were 14 withdrawn after residents raised questions. I was never given that opportunity. 15 16 The berm immediately disrupted access to my house. Getting in and out of cars is now difficult 17 and even dangerous, especially for someone my age. Parking in the driveway means walking 18 twice the distance or navigating stairs without a handrail. These things matter when mobility is 19 limited. After it went up, I spoke with neighbors who live closest to it. Most of us have been at 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. this intersection for decades and many are seniors. Nearly everyone disliked the berm and felt 1 it didn't add value. I submitted a letter of objection signed by 10 of these neighbors to the OT. It 2 was ignored. Later, I learned the berm would be subject to a Crescent Park neighborhood-wide 3 vote, not one reflecting the sentiments of those most affected. Once again, this feels like a 4 deliberate effort to silence our voices. I ask this Commission to take meaningful action. Please 5 remove the berm and install three stop signs instead. You'll likely hear from Greg Welch, 6 [inaudible 1:15:37] keep it in front of my house. I wonder how [inaudible 1:15:42] he'd feel it 7 ha-, were it in front of his own. Thank you. 8 9 Chair Akin: Thank you, Mr. Girand. 10 11 James Girand: Any questions? 12 13 Chair Akin: We typically don't take questions from commenters but thank you – to ask 14 questions of commenters. Pardon me. 15 16 Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, next speaker is Laurie G. Laurie G., you may now speak. 17 18 Laurie Girand: My name is Laurie Girand and I am a part owner of 590 East Crescent Drive. I 19 only learned of this meeting this morning and I have previously received nothing from the City 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. notifying me of actions in this matter. I suspect other owners of properties on East Crescent 1 and Southwood have similarly not been informed and the Office of Transportation's repeated 2 citations quoting neighborhood "supermajorities" or "all those responding" represent feeble 3 efforts on the part of staff to reach neighboring homeowners, some of whom are bedridden or 4 dying, most of whom who have lived in the neighborhood for decades. Who are these 114 5 people who supposedly use this intersection? OT's efforts regarding this intersection are 6 founded on sand, based on complaints, including perhaps those of pedestrians who cross 7 Southwood wherever. This intersection was swept up in the Traffic Calming exercise for all of 8 Crescent Park. Evidence collected in the earliest studies showed the 85th percentile speed on 9 East Crescent within 1.3 miles of 25 miles per hour, which is the legal speed limit through most 10 Palo Alto neighborhoods. There was zero evidence of unusual accidents in the area. Basically, 11 the only problem was complaints, unless the complaints come from a billionaire on Edgewood, 12 his employees, guests who attend his parties, and the staff and families of students of his 13 school, the people who just happen to care about how wide the turning radius is at that 14 intersection. 15 16 If the problem were in fact one of calming traffic, the City should have first introduced missing 17 crosswalks and speed humps. The City also has the option of making East Crescent a one-way 18 street. Instead, prejudiciously, OT has attacked a single property, supposedly on behalf of many 19 but actually on behalf of those on Edgewood. OT claims that people responding to its inquiries 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. like this abomination, yet its own data shows that there hasn't been much change in the speed 1 on East Crescent. In fact, the percentiles hide other important data, such as when speeds are 2 high but OT isn't sharing any of that data, even under PRA requests. Let's face it. From the start, 3 the bulbout at this intersection was a bad idea. For over seven years, OT has ignored all other 4 less expensive and easier-to-maintain options. It has ignored 100 years of history at this 5 intersection. It has made excuses for declining traffic during the pandemic. It doesn't 6 acknowledge that all other bulbouts in Palo Alto do not obliterate the front yards of houses. 7 City staff are trying to evade bringing ADA ramps up to standards. Really? I respectfully suggest 8 that undue influence and bias have played a role in this process and that by allowing this plan 9 to move forward, no matter how tired you are of hearing about it, you would be setting a 10 dangerous and ugly precedent of targeting specific homes based on anonymous complaints, not 11 facts. OT staff made this decision in 2018. In 2025, those who represent the citizens and 12 homeowners of Palo Alto should demand City staff provide sensible solutions to complaints of 13 distance homeowners unsubstantiated by any data. 14 15 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Lisa W. Lisa, you may now – Lisa L. Lisa, you may now speak. 16 17 Lisa L.: Thank you. I would like to point out that my sister, Juanita Goggins, is also trying to get 18 into the Zoom and has been unable to do so and I would like her to have the opportunity to 19 speak. I wanna start off by saying that we received the Transportation Department's staff 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. memo one hour before this meeting was to start and I have to say that it appears that the 1 Commission – it was prompted by the Commission raising questions of the OT staff and in 2 response, the OT has now said that they don't need your vote to move forward with the 3 project. I have to say for the record how outrageous it is that – as a citizen, that once the 4 Commission presents the OT with questions about the berm, the OT decides that the 5 Commission no longer has authority to vote on this measure. Who does the OT answer to? 6 They – do they have plenary power to implement whatever measures they want without 7 responding to input of the PTC and neighbors impacted by their costly and unnecessary 8 projects? 9 10 I also wanna address some of the questions that the Commission has raised before they open it 11 up for your session. One question that you raised was – Commissioner James, was, "How can 12 we get to a result with a minimum amount of bulbout?" And in response, the head of the OT 13 said something like, "Well, I think it's possible." I would like to note for the record that twice 14 before, the Commission has asked them to change the bulbout, to make it smaller, to come up 15 with redesigns both in June 2023 and again in April 2025 and each time, they never did. In fact, 16 they have only doubled down on their existing design and now stripped you from your 17 authority to provide any input. I also would like to point out, as one of the commissioners noted 18 with the image with the car, that there is no way that my father, who not only relies on 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. caregivers but relies on Uber drivers, will be able to get of his car – from the backseat of a – of 1 that car. 2 3 In addition, you all have pointed out the ADA issues with this project. I find it implausible that 4 the installation of temporary measures, which have now been in front of the house for four 5 years, did not trigger the ADA requirements, a law that's been in effect since 1990. I do not 6 understand how suddenly taking out those measures would trigger the ADA but installing them, 7 leaving them there for four years did not. 8 9 Last, I'd like to point out that there is a solution that would allow my father to still access his 10 house and that cement walkway. They could simply, as they've said they're willing to do with 11 the berm, make the ramp a concrete pad. That will then eliminate any notion of it being a 12 "crosswalk" which everybody is concerned about. We need a solution here that allows my 13 father to have access to his house. 14 15 We have submitted a letter that has detailed statements about why we are against this process. 16 The first point, and I'm – of course I don't have time to respond to all those things because of 17 the last-minute, 11th-hour memo that the Transportation Department submitted. But the first 18 point is that the whole purpose of this measure was to calm traffic and, as you have noted, the 19 data that they have submitted, which was measured at the end of – or in the fall of 2022 – is 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. marred. Their own consultants state that the data is inconclusive, that there is no way of 1 showing that this ridiculous bulbout, that has been called bizarre and unsightly and 2 unacceptable and they've told – been told to redo, there's no way that that is responsible for 3 the decreased traffic on East Crescent. It is simply a matter of COVID and the ma-, the fact that 4 very few people are now traveling to work and no longer are using the street as a cut-through. 5 The third – second point I wanna put – point out is that we were not ever asked for our 6 opinions. 7 8 Samuel Tavera: Thank you. Our next speaker is Daniel H. 9 10 Daniel Hansen: Hi, there. Daniel Hansen. Live on Edgewood Drive. Have for 24 years. I drive or 11 we drive these intersections all the time. Have – we do virtually every day and I can tell you that 12 East Crescent the way it was worked fine. I never saw an issue with it. It has a natural calming 13 to it, the way it is originally designed 'cause it's very narrow. Tends to be cars parked along it. 14 So a one-way kinda makes sense to me but the way it was, I didn't see any issue with it. So 15 maybe just keep it the way it was. So I'm here to support my neighbor. I think we should do 16 everything we can to make sure he has access to his house. And also, in terms of the survey, I 17 wasn't asked about this. Maybe you broaden this out, include the whole Crescent Park 18 neighborhood, Green Meadow, everybody within reach of these intersections. The five-way 19 intersection, that one makes some sense to me. It's always been clumsy. It's always been hard 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. to navigate, so having the – I guess it's a roundabout now or however it is. Seems to work the 1 way it's currently done and I think the design seems to work there, so that's my two cents. 2 Thank you. 3 4 Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, I have no more raised hands on Zoom and no more speaker 5 cards for this item. 6 7 Chair Akin: Okay. And we had one person trying to get in and I take it that was not successful? 8 9 Samuel Tavera: Through the Chair, that individual has their hand raised now. [Inaudible 10 1:24:28]. 11 12 Chair Akin: Then I think, in this case, we should take that comment. 13 14 Samuel Tavera: Give me one – Nita G., you may now speak. 15 16 Nita G.: Hi. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak. I – we had a plan but it sounds like 17 it's sort of gone out of order, so my apologies. I'll try to go through what was a six-minute 18 speech split between two of us to a three-minute speech covered by one of us. The fir-, we're 19 basically – what our – we're here to urge you to reject the proposed permanent berm. The first 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. point is, the data does not support the berm. The intersection at East Crescent and Southwood 1 has always been safe. According to the City, the intersection has no record of accidents or 2 citations. Speeds are and have always been low. Despite this record of safety, the OT 3 determined that it would install a berm at the intersection as part of its sweeping plan to 4 reduce the volume and speed of vehicles in Crescent Park. The OT study comparing pre and 5 post-pilot data at the intersection was flawed for two reasons. First, pre-pilot data measured 6 pre-COVID data. Post-pilot data measured post-COVID data when traffic volume had declined 7 across Palo Alto. There's a lot more details go – that I'm just gonna gloss over 'cause I think you 8 all are aware of them. The findings from Fehr & Peers show a slight increase in speed post-pilot. 9 Volume changes – higher in the morning, lower in the afternoon – were attributed to COVID. 10 The efficacy of the pilot was deemed inconclusive. 11 12 These facts are all contained in the Fehr & Peers re-, post-pilot study but in contrast to the 13 conclusion of its own consultants, the OT falsely and repeatedly claimed that the berm 14 improved safety, reduced volume and reduced speeds in its presentations to the City Council 15 and the Planning and Transportation Commission. We believe that these misrepresentations 16 played a critical role in convincing certain members of the City Council and the Commission to 17 support the berm. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. The second important point is that the berm makes life more dangerous for our father. He – no 1 one can safely drop him off at the curb. From the OT's own drawing, slide 10, our father can 2 only safely exit a vehicle if he's sitting in the – if the car is sitting in exact spot in the – and he is 3 sitting in the front seat of that car. Our front – f urther, our father's path to his front door from 4 his driveway is now twice as long and unsafe. The berm creates a tripping hazard when entering 5 and exiting cars. The narrowed roadway causes unnecessary traffic conflicts. 6 7 Third point, that [inaudible 1:27:11] I think you're beginning to realize is that we were left out 8 of the process. My father canvassed the neighborhood as soon as he learned. He got 10 people 9 to sign his petition and the OT ignored the petition and instead, put it out to a Crescent Park-10 wide vote where hundreds of people were solicited for input, not just the people who were 11 stakeholders in that neighborhood. So the 10 people close to the berm, they rejected it but 12 when you put it out to such a wide vote, all sorts of people say, "Yeah." Anyway, I've got a lot 13 more to say but I appreciate your listening to me today and thank you so much for your time 14 and thank you for your concern and your attention to this matter. 15 16 Samuel Tavera: Thank you. And through the Chair, while she spoke, there was one more hand 17 raised, so I did wanna let you know. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Akin: I think maybe it's time to cut off the public comments so we can proceed with 1 discussion. 2 3 Samuel Tavera: Okay. No worries. Thank you. 4 5 Chair Akin: All right. So before we start the Commission discussion, I just wanted to make a 6 framework-setting comment. When this project last came before us, back in April, it was 7 classified as an action item and we didn't complete it. We continued it, eventually to a date 8 uncertain. Tonight, as has been commented, it's been reclassified as a study session, so we will 9 not be making a formal motion and taking a formal vote, I am told. However, I really want to 10 see us take a poll, informally if necessary, when this is done – when our discussion is done – so 11 that we can give Council a very clear statement of our intent. So that's the target that I'd like us 12 to aim for. In the meantime, let's begin the discussion. Commissioner Templeton. 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you very much, Chair. I like that idea and I would love a little 15 bit more clarity, if you have, about did Council take an action in between when we continued it 16 and today that has resulted in us not having this as an action item or is that a staff question? 17 18 Chair Akin: Over to you, Ms. Armer. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: No. It was a clarification. The previous direction from Council actually should've 1 led to a study session at the previous discussion with PTC, is my understanding. Yeah. So it was 2 more that it was a correction from how this should have previously been scheduled. 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: Seems like we're gonna be talking a lot about how things should've 5 been done tonight. Thank you for that. All right. So I've got a few things on my list and I 6 appreciate the indulgence of my peers. So we did talk about the proof of concept and how this 7 initial project was billed to the community and – as a pilot with the implication, whether – I 8 don't know if it was explicitly stated or just understood in terms of using that word, that it could 9 be undone. I t-, I'm very concerned that that's not the case because one of the things that we 10 love to do with our transportation partners is to try things. And if we're not able to try things 11 and admit that some of them don't work, we're gonna spend a lot of your time, as you were 12 mentioning earlier, all the extra time you have to spend is just going to get much, much more 13 because then we're gonna feel like it has to be perfect before we can buy in. And I think that is 14 very counterproductive in terms of being responsive as a governing body. So that's something 15 that we would love to pass along through you to the Council that we need to make sure we 16 understand that. And of course, that's in partnership with our legal counsel as well. Okay. So we 17 – it looks like we had a large number of people that live in the neighborhood participate in the 18 survey who might be using the roads but we are unable to determine which of those res-, how 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that response table looks with people who are personally affected by the construction. Is that 1 right? 2 3 Ria Lo: So I received more information. So there was 114 in the whole neighborhood and the 78 4 percent was from that whole area. There was 25 in the immediate neighborhood who 5 responded to the second question and that was the 74 percent support rate. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: So we're not able to filter out the people who are person-, whose 8 properties are personally affected by the construction? 9 10 Ria Lo: I think the 25 would be personally affected. That would be the immediate... 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: And... 13 14 Ria Lo: ...street. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: ...what does the chart look like for those 25? 17 18 Ria Lo: What do you mean by chart? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: The balance. Are you saying that the – all the people who said no 1 represent that 26 percent? 2 3 Ria Lo: The – hang on. Let me just have a look at that. 4 5 Albert Yang: So in other words, there were two questions and the first one was for the 114 6 respondents and the second question was for the 26 respondents. 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 1:32:54]. 9 10 Albert Yang: And both of those responses were in the 75/25 range. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: Who are – I'm sorry. I – is there a visual for that or can you – are you 13 saying – could you please put the slide up? 14 15 Ria Lo: Yeah. If we could... 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: That would... 18 19 Ria Lo: ...go... 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: ...be... 2 3 Ria Lo: ...back... 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: ...great. 6 7 Ria Lo: ...to Slide 8. 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: So you're saying 26 of the 114 were people that live in close 10 proximity to the intersection and are affected by the construction? 11 12 Ria Lo: No. So the – in this diagram, and... 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: Yeah. 15 16 Ria Lo: ...Ripon, feel free to chime in if I'm not getting this correct. So in this diagram – actually, 17 maybe – is he a panelist? Okay. 18 19 Male: [Inaudible 1:33:37]. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ria Lo: Did you wanna chime in, Ripon? 2 3 Senior Engineer Ripon Bhatia: Good afternoo-, good evening, commissioners. Ripon Bhatia, 4 senior engineer with the Office of Transportation. So these two surveys shows two different c-, 5 the two different locations where – within the Southwood and Crescent. We also looked into a 6 – filtered out the residents which is within the immediate vicinity of the neighbor – within – of 7 this intersection. And that results of the 25 residents who live in that neighborhood who 8 responded to those comments – to those surveys and 75 – 74 percent of those also were in 9 favor of the – to proceed forward with [inaudible 1:34:24]. So the subset of Item 1, which... 10 11 Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 1:34:31]. 12 13 Ripon Bhatia: ...was to be looking – filtering out only the ones who live within the immediate 14 vicinity, which is maybe going 50 or 100 feet on both – all sides and looking into that direction 15 and looking at those would be the 25 homes, maybe 3 or 4 homes on Southwood – 3 or 4 16 homes on the Southwood [inaudible 1:34:51] side and then on the East Crescent, and so all of 17 them were surveyed. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: Mr. Bhatia, I think what I'm asking is people whose properties are 1 adjacent to the construction, and I'm pretty sure that's one people and [inaudible 1:35:05]... 2 3 Ripon Bhatia: So there's only one person. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: ...is in this room saying that he did not get surveyed. 6 7 Ripon Bhatia: No. The survey was sent out. I don't want to [inaudible 1:35:14]. 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: It's okay. You don't have to respond... 10 11 Ripon Bhatia: We... 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: ...to that. I'm asking [inaudible 1:35:17]. 14 15 Ripon Bhatia: No. That one person... 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Yeah. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ripon Bhatia: That one person, you're already seeing that that person is not in favor, right? So 1 I'm not sure if the survey results w-, needs to be – and that – for one person, you already know 2 what that is. Thank you. 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. So I think we have circled back to what the real problem 5 is, is that there is a person whose property and access to that property is directly affected and 6 at our last meeting, our direction to you was, "Please come back when you have come to an 7 agreement with him." And it sounds like you have a revision but no agreement, so I'm trying to 8 figure out how it's back here yet if they're not satisfied. And I wonder if you have an answer to 9 that before I go into my next point. 10 11 Ria Lo: So staff did reach out and have a conversation but we were not able to come to 12 agreement. 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. Thank you. That's really important to know because that is the 15 essence of what we're dealing with. It's a very sad and frustrating situation of a person that's 16 been a part of this community for a very long time and has given to this community and been 17 instrumental in living in this neighborhood and forming this neighborhood and seeing it through 18 many decades. He's also served our country, he mentioned. These are things that we are 19 benefiting from and that we have created what it looks like was meant as a pilot to try 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. something out, as you said, and now we're unable to go back. And what – one of the arguments 1 I'm hearing here from the City is kind of the sunk cost fallacy, which I'm sure you guys have 2 heard of, but if you haven't, that's throwing good money after bad. "Well, we've already spent 3 all this money designing this. We've had this pilot. We've gotten data." But we've found out, 4 unfortunately, that this has a critical flaw. And none of the charts are showing that, that the – 5 there's a critical flaw that one of the homeowners is prevented from accessing his home. And 6 that is an overriding concern that I'm guessing when Council approved this, they were not 7 advised of this. It sounds like even the homeowner was not advised of this project early on, so 8 we have a communication issue. 9 10 We'll put that to the side for now but my concern is, can – what can we do about this person 11 who is personally affected in his ability to use his own property in a way that doesn't leave the 12 City at risk if we continue forward on a path that we know is going to prevent a person from 13 using their property or put them in risk of harm? That puts the City in a dangerous financial 14 situation and we don't want to do that. None of us are here to put people in harm's way. We 15 are all here to work with you to make things safer and I know that's the intention, so I'm not 16 trying to say it's not the intention. But the reality is, we tried something and it's not working 17 and we've been unable to reach agreement on how to move forward. So there's a couple of 18 thoughts that I have on attempted approaches that might work. However, we'll see what other 19 people have. It sounds like there's a lot of good ideas here that we can share with you but in 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the end, we need Mr. Girand to be able to access his home safely and our project needs to 1 cooperate with him as a condition of approval that we would recommend to the Council. 2 3 Okay. A couple of the ideas. One is I drive my daughter down to a voice lesson in San Jose and 4 they have this separate lane where you can kind of pull out of the intersection and the flow of 5 traffic to access the little stripe of road in front of the homes. This prevents people turning in 6 and out of their driveways from entering the roadway. I'm wondering if we can do something 7 like that. One of the things we have not looked at in terms of designs would be making that 8 lane in front of the houses not part of the box. If – and I – it looks – you're giving me a look like 9 maybe that's not clear enough. Another – oops. Another example of that is on Alma at 10 Meadow, right in front of the apartments there, right by the grocery outlet. There's a little lane 11 that is separate from Alma because nobody wants people coming in and out of driveways at 12 that part of Alma, due to the big intersection. So if you were looking for a solution to allow 13 someone to continue using the curb as it is, without any changes, that might be a way to do it. 14 It would narrow the intersection. It would provide a physical barrier between that drive path 15 and the "road". That's something to look at. 16 17 And then the other thing to look at is that we heard from Mr. Yang that we are required to 18 comply with ADA regulations if we do anything, even a pilot, and I'm wondering, what is the 19 consequence if we return it to normal? Is that a fine? Is that fine lower than the cost of 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. reengineering this thing over and over and over again? And the third option is, what if we 1 delay? What if we take this project and put it on a shelf for a decade? Remove the temporary 2 situation, put it back to normal, have a project ready that would comply that could be built 10 3 years from now instead of tomorrow. 4 5 Male: [Inaudible 1:41:41]. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: So those are all my suggestions. I'd love to hear other people's ideas. 8 Thank you. 9 10 Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Peterson. 11 12 Commissioner Peterson: I think Commissioner Templeton made a great idea there that 13 whatever we do – propose to do, we put it on the stack and – I don't know how long it takes to 14 get projects done but last time I checked, it's usually quite a while once they're designed, put 15 out for bid, and all the rest. So the point I wanted to make is that in the data set, if you go all 16 the way back to – I think I'm in 2022 here. Somewhere in there. It actually increased traffic at 17 peak. 18 19 Commissioner Templeton: Hm. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Peterson: It went from a – if you look at the – can we put the map up real quick? 2 Just a Google Map or something. Yeah. Doesn't have to be a good map. Just Google Maps. And I 3 think I know why maybe it did that. But it ends up to be split because it ends up being a 4 northbound/southbound problem. It's not the same street if you're going northbound and 5 southbound on it. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: Hm. 8 9 Vice Chair Chang: I think Commissioner Peterson was asking if we could pull up a Google Map. 10 11 Male: Yeah. We're getting to it. 12 13 Jennifer Armer: Yes. We're working on that. 14 15 Male: We'll take a break if we need to. 16 17 Commissioner Peterson: And then just to do a spoiler, where I'm gonna get is there's a major, 18 major employer that probably is where people are driving to and from, if we start looking at 19 where people going. So let's zoom out. Let's just take a big view of Palo Alto and let's see what's 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. on the north side of Palo Alto, kind of to the left of all this. Keep going out [inaudible 1:43:42] 1 big view. Oops. Keep trying to use my hands... 2 3 Female: [Inaudible 1:43:44]. 4 5 Commissioner Peterson: ...to – yeah. Computer's going slow. There it goes. [Inaudible 1:43:59]. 6 7 Samuel Tavera: Yep. 8 9 Commissioner Peterson: Now we're gonna zoom out to the whole world. And so [inaudible 10 1:44:12] is zooming, so north is the right side of the street and southbound is the left side of the 11 street. Correct? I-, okay. 'Cause I wasn't sure the – which way is actually north around here I can 12 never figure out. 'Cause all the cars, as best I could tell, they were heading northbound – seems 13 to be the big problem – in the afternoon, which means they're coming from some place on the 14 left. 15 16 Samuel Tavera: Do you want me to move anywhere else, Commissioner Peterson? 17 18 Commissioner Peterson: We're getting there. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: They're trying to [inaudible 1:44:59]. 1 2 Commissioner Peterson: Right. And maybe on University, they're trying to get around Willow 3 Road, which I understand Willow Road's a little bit of a gridlock. Let's see. You can zoom out 4 some more. It looks like people are driving down Hamilton. They're trying to get from 5 University. And where are they coming from? What's at the other end of University? 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 1:45:25]. 8 9 Chair Akin: I think a spoiler is in order here, just to... 10 11 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 12 13 Chair Akin: ...move things along. 14 15 Commissioner Peterson: All right. So it's Stanford University. They're the big employer there. 16 They got like 10,000 employees. Down there – to the left there. So it turns out they're also 17 trying to figure out their own traffic because they've got 10,000 employees leaving every day in 18 the afternoon, earlier and earlier, trying to beat traffic. They're on Willow. They're everywhere. 19 Apparently, they're going in front of our applicant's house. About 90 cars at peak are driving by 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. there and they're going northbound. But the – what do we call this thing, the bulbous? Bulbi? 1 [Inaudible 1:46:04] feel like we're talking like a dolphin or something. It's on the south side of 2 the street, southbound. The cars going northbound aren't even affected by it. And I think that's 3 why it showed your – the number of vehicles increased from, let's see, 52 pre-pilot to 70. 4 Depends on how you look at it. Northbound, 37 to 34. It didn't really seem like it made a 5 difference there. And in the afternoon, it changed it from 157 cars to 91 but in that same time 6 frame, Stanford moved all their campus staff up to Redwood City as well to solve the traffic 7 problems they were causing in Palo Alto. So that could be why – if we went out there and did a 8 study right now, we would probably find there's still no problem because thousands of 9 employees have been moved to Redwood City. 10 11 Commissioner Templeton: Hm. 12 13 Commissioner Peterson: So just wanna put that out for discussion. Thank you, Chair. 14 15 Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner Peterson. Commissioner Ji, followed by Vice Chair Chang. 16 17 Commissioner Ji: Wrong button. Thank you, Chair. And apologies to the Commission for 18 jumping a little bit ahead of the curve during clarifying questions. I think, as Commissioner 19 Templeton mentioned, we all have some interesting ideas to put forward. I just have a question 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. about the slide deck presented by staff, specifically – I don't remember which slide you referred 1 to it on but you said that there were changes in the control. You said that there were speed 2 reductions. What was the control? 3 4 Ria Lo: That was referring to University. 'Cause of the concerns about pandemic travel changes, 5 there was also comparison to University. 6 7 Commissioner Ji: So for speed as well, is that also looking at University? 8 9 Ria Lo: Yes. 10 11 Commissioner Ji: Or that's a – so we're not looking at the speed at this intersection that we're 12 discussing in particular, right? So – right? So we're s-, I guess maybe can you clarify exactly what 13 that – the studies were that – for the numbers you presented, so I can make sure I'm clear... 14 15 Ria Lo: So... 16 17 Commissioner Ji: ...on... 18 19 Ria Lo: ...there... 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Ji: ...that? 2 3 Ria Lo: ...were – the speed was analyzed at, I think, 11 intersections and some of them related 4 to specific areas within the study area and then some of them were for University. So those 5 were used more like controls. 6 7 Commissioner Ji: Okay. And then just to clarify, no new data was collected about the 8 intersection – I know Commissioner Peterson just mentioned that there were some changes 9 between tw-, during the pandemic period. But since that 2022 data collection, there still has 10 been no new data collected. Is that correct? 11 12 Ria Lo: Yeah. That's correct. 13 14 Commissioner Ji: Okay. And then I'll kind of hold off on my – let everyone else go fir-, respond 15 first. Thank you. 16 17 Chair Akin: Thank you. Vice Chair Chang and then Commissioner Hechtman. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: So I know that no vote is required of us for our study session but oftentimes 1 in study sessions, we have made motions or – so is there a – I mean, is there – is that a hard-2 and-fast rule? 3 4 Jennifer Armer: I will defer to the attorney. 5 6 Albert Yang: Yeah. So in a study session, the Commission is not able to make a formal motion 7 but it can certainly provide guidance through a straw poll. 8 9 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. And so when this came to us last time, then it shouldn't – it was 10 erroneously marked as an action item. Is that correct? Because this is continued from last time. 11 So if it was an action item before, I really wanna understand why it's not an action item now. 12 13 Ria Lo: Yes. That's correct. Because [inaudible 1:50:00]. 14 15 Vice Chair Chang: And h-, and what are the legal implications of that, Mr. Yang? 16 17 Ria Lo: Oh. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Albert Yang: I can't really say. I think it technically, perhaps if it were continued as an action 1 item, it would come back on action. But practically, I don't know that there is a major difference 2 from the way that I understand what staff was seeking at the previous hearing and what staff is 3 asking for now. 4 5 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. Thanks. Because what we're being told is that because Council voted 6 on this already, there's not much that the PTC can do in terms – or that there's no motion that 7 is needed from the PTC because it's already been approved by Council. 8 9 Albert Yang: I think maybe a better way of putting it is that the Council action on this item 10 didn't require further action by the PTC but that doesn't – that didn't preclude staff from 11 coming back to the PTC to seek input from the PTC and that's what staff did and what staff is 12 continuing to do. 13 14 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. Thanks. So I have to say that this is probably partially due to staff 15 changes in the Office of Transportation but I've been really disappointed about how this project 16 has been handled overall. So first off, what we're being told is that the circle for which the PTC 17 actually approved on June 14th of 2023, so more than two years ago now, that has not been 18 able to move forward because it's been bundled together in the consultant – the engineering 19 consultant contract. And so because we haven't made – come to a resolution on this piece, no 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. motion has go-, occurred. No design – no additional design has occurred for the circle, which is 1 really disappointing because in – more than two years ago, there was unanimous agreement 2 that that circle was approved. 3 4 There are actually three pieces. I went back and read the minutes and there are three pieces. 5 There was one piece, which I – escapes my mind. The third piece was the circle. The second is 6 this bulbout. The PTC was very explicit that it approved one and three – in other words one, 7 which I can't remember; three, the circle; and that two needed more work. So we were very 8 clear about that. And in fact, I had asked, "Do we need to make a specific motion to have that 9 Number 2 come back to the PTC?" And we were assured by Mr. Bhatia that actually, no. All 10 three would be coming back to us. So if at that time, it was – so we didn't approve two as is. We 11 said two was more work. And then we were kind of led to believe that when two came back to 12 us, that there would be a yea or a nay. So I mean, that's kind of the spirit of the conversation 13 that we had. 14 15 So then this was presented to Council on Consent and Council I don't think realized that the PTC 16 voted unanimously that Number 2 needed more work and – Number 2 meaning the bulbout. 17 And in fact, it says here that the Planning – "The PTC members unanimously endorsed the 18 project and recommended to the City Council that the staff be authorized to proceed with the 19 design of permanent improvements. However, in response to concerns raised by the fronting 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. property owner, the PTC further recommended that staff work with adjacent property owners 1 to gather their input." But it wasn't clear that the PTC was really gung ho about two or the three 2 improvements and that there was one remaining that did not actually receive our approval. It 3 received our approval to do more work on it. So I think that that staff report to Council was 4 glossed over, a pretty critical piece of information, and that's why we find ourselves here still. 5 And in the meantime, it's been seven years since a very real problem of cut-through traffic and 6 speeds that kind of were – that stimulated the initial request for traffic calming. That circle 7 seems to have broad ap-, nobody's come to speak up against the circle, so that still hasn't 8 moved forward. So somehow , we – I really wish that we had been able to move forward with 9 one piece and not move forward with the other but it is what it is. 10 11 Second, I wanted to ask – is – there – nothing has changed in the staff, so again, that's partially 12 to focus our conversation because you – Director Lo, you showed us many slides of the circle. 13 We're all good on the circle, I think. We just wanna focus on the bulbout. Okay. Second, I 14 wanted to ask, is – was there any – is there any difference between the last time we saw the 15 bulbout and today? Has – I know that there was a conversation that was had with Mis-, with 16 the homeowner but is there any difference being proposed to us? 17 18 Ria Lo: So the difference is to make sure that that curb is straight so that you can fit the car in 19 that location, 15 feet from the crosswalk. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. So it – the bulbout has been further reduced since last time? 2 3 Ria Lo: Yeah. I'd say – well, it's more – it's – the design that you see hasn't changed but it would 4 be direction to their – to the next step to kind of make sure that you can come straight to the 5 curb. 6 7 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. 8 9 Ria Lo: Yeah. 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: So we had asked in t-, more than two years ago to please take a really good 12 look at this bulbout and see if there were any other options, including the – and in particular, 13 the size of the bulbout was one of the big questions. Was there anything done about that? 14 15 Ria Lo: Yes. That's reflected in the design that you see. [Inaudible 1:57:11]. 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. But that was... 18 19 Ria Lo: It's... 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Vice Chair Chang: ...just... 2 3 Ria Lo: ...smaller. 4 5 Vice Chair Chang: ...shrinking it up a tiny bit because what – I mean, again, I disclosed this last 6 time this came to us. I also stood at that intersection and saw – because East Crescent is so 7 narrow, I saw people making a left from Southwood onto East Crescent and veering over into 8 the opposing lane of traffic because it was so narrow. And so my understanding is that's why 9 the bulbout has been shrunken up. But that was already done even before. I mean, that was 10 already proposed before it came to us last time. Has there been any – aside from kind of 11 correcting something that made it more dangerous, was there anything looked at about the 12 overall size of the bulbout? 13 14 Ria Lo: I think that that would be – it would shrink slightly with the straightening of the curb... 15 16 Vice Chair Chang: Right. 17 18 Ria Lo: ...on the other end, so... 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: Five feet, I think it was. Okay. I am disappointed that we haven't tried more 1 innovative approaches because the – where I think we might need to head with this is that the 2 stop signs clearly slow traffic down. There were no stop signs on two of the three locations 3 where there currently are stop signs. And in fact, there will be a stop sign added so that people 4 can't whiz around the wide corner. So I wonder if it might not be more appropriate, given the 5 disruption that the bulbout causes, to just remove the bulbout, keep the stop signs. And the 6 stop signs, by definition, have to slow down traffic. And unfortunately, the data that's being 7 cited as a – something that demonstrates success has not convinced me. It didn't convince me 8 two years ago. It still doesn't convince me 'cause it's the same data. And so I think that that 9 might be an option that I would put forward to my colleagues. 10 11 Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner Hechtman. 12 13 Commissioner Hechtman: So the last time that this was in front of us, Mr. Girand was 14 represented by John Paul Hanna, who spoke on his behalf and championed him as he had 15 many, many Palo Alto residents in front of the PTC and City Council. John passed away a little 16 more than a month ago and I just want to take a moment to remember him because, like Mr. 17 Girand, he was a long, long time Palo Alton who contributed immeasurably to our community. 18 He was on the Crescent Park Neighborhood Association Board for years and years. In fact, that's 19 how I really got to know him about 20 years ago, as a fellow member of that board. He was 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. passionate about ameliorating the flood issues in that part of Palo Alto, having been flooded in 1 the – I think it was the 1998 flood. And he was passionate about traffic issues and making 2 University Avenue a sane, drivable entrance into our downtown. And he had a statewide 3 reputation as a lawyer. He was – well, not probably – definitely the most prominent 4 condominium lawyer in California. So I will miss him in this chamber and I'll miss seeing him 5 putt around in his old Ferrari on the streets. He was a charming guy and so I wanted to take this 6 moment to thank you, Mr. Girand, for actually bringing him to us on your behalf that one last 7 time. 8 9 In terms of this project, it's odd that we find ourselves sort of resisting bringing something into 10 ADA compliance because, in this particular instance, it adversely affects a disabled person, and 11 so it's almost counterintuitive that it should do that. I'm hearing from my fellow commissioners 12 a lot of pushback on having the bulb but I wonder how much of that pushback would be there if 13 the design were acceptable to Mr. Girand. And so that's really what my focus is on. At the last 14 hearing and this one, I listened to hear what the problems were with the access and one of 15 them obviously is it's different and that in itself is a problem. The other aspect that I perceive is 16 – one thing that's different is today, and for however long, there's been a ramp that meets the 17 street at street level and these designs all propose a concrete pad that meets the street at curb 18 level. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. I do think that there is one improvement that could be made and it was discussed during the 1 technical questions. Staff, in their design of the concrete pad, as I understand it, has simply 2 replaced the current ramp with a flat pad in the location of the ramp. That's not necessarily – it 3 doesn't necessarily have to be done that way and I think staff acknowledged that this is 4 something that they could look at. If they're not constrained to just go right where the ramp is 5 today, if they could swing it to the left – and I think one of the daughters mentioned that a 6 frequent form of transportation here is an Uber and you get in the back seat of an Uber. And so 7 where my question earlier was about getting in the front seat, because that's where that ramp 8 looked like it was coming closest to, it seems like with a little more of a turn, we can have it 9 directed to the back and even sort of flare out so that there are options. 10 11 Then to my thinking, the only issue is the step down to the curb, right, rather than having a 12 ramp down to a flat street. And I have to admit I'm a little curious about this because we're 13 talking about only one end of the journey. This is where Mr. Girand gets picked up or dropped 14 off but there's the other end. And does every place he ever goes only have a ramp that he gets 15 dropped in front of? Does he never get dropped in front of a curb? I wouldn't think that would 16 be the case. And so I'm wanting to believe he can navigate from a car to a concrete pad on a 17 curb. And if so, then I think by swinging this around, although it's different, we retain its 18 accessibility to him in the context of this improvement that has benefits to a segment of the 19 community by reducing speeds, if not modestly reducing cut-through traffic. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 And the other thing I want to comment on is in my experience, it is highly, highly unusual in a 2 public works project to focus on accommodating one property owner, the particular needs of a 3 particular property owner. And I think we've engaged in some critical review here of the history 4 of how there have been some communication gaps for sure but I want to say I at least 5 recognize that staff, in my view, has been trying to thread this needle, to address the 6 neighborhood traffic flow/speed concerns while making this special effort to see if they can 7 come up with a solution that would work for this one particular neighbor. And I think by 8 relocating that sidewalk, sliding it over, that pad, it's only an additional couple of steps in that 9 location, and it's certainly better than having to walk down the driveway, which has been 10 explained to us as a problem. So given the Council has given some direction on this and we're 11 informally offering input, that would be my input, is that should be something that is fixable 12 and I would encourage staff again, if they pursue this and come up with that design, to show it 13 to Mr. Girand and his family, to see if they can see what I think staff has been seeing is this is a 14 solution. And I think we need Mr. Girand to be able to see that. So those are my thoughts. 15 Thanks. 16 17 Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner James. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner James: I'm pretty sure you don't wanna do a live design exercise here but I just 1 wonder if I can ask kind of an open-ended question about whether – given what you've heard 2 here tonight, there were ideas raised and I'm not really qualified to evaluate them. One person 3 mentioned turning the street into a one-way. Someone else mentioned speed bumps. I'm just 4 wondering – and maybe you don't wanna sort of do – express an opinion right here on the spur 5 of the moment but do you see or imagine that there might be some other design solution that 6 would kind of meet these goals and address sort of the concerns? They're all – most of the 7 concerns are kind of running in the same direction and I don't pretend to have the expertise to 8 know what they are but I mean, could the stop sign be on a much smaller island and then the 9 whole other part of the bulbout be striped on the pavement, indicating that you don't drive 10 there? Or – I'm just trying to figure out how – if there is a design solution that would – that 11 might solve this problem in a different way. 12 13 Ria Lo: So I think my response is – so staff has received Council direction to proceed with 14 design. Within that, I think that we can entertain sort of some changes. I think moving the 15 concrete pad is a minor change that could easily be entertained with that. If it's – if the 16 direction is something that's a dramatic change, I have some concerns because the process 17 went through a community outreach process and so some of that would – it – if we receive 18 Council direction to completely rethink that intersection, we would wanna do more 19 engagement and kind of redo some of that process for that intersection. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner James: Thank you. 2 3 Chair Akin: Most of my concerns have been addressed but I'll throw in just a few short 4 comments. Back on April 9th, I expressed my confidence that OoT would be able to come to a 5 design compromise that would solve the safety and speed issues that we're talking about and 6 also be acceptable to Mr. Girand and I was particularly interested in seeing OoT staff watch Mr. 7 Girand get into and out of representative vehicles. And my understanding from reading the 8 staff report is that that didn't happen and – that is, the visit to see Mr. Girand didn't result in 9 that information being gathered is perhaps a better way to put it. But I would still hope that 10 something like that can be done and that the outcome of that will be relatively small changes 11 that can fit into the paradigm you've already developed. If Commissioner Hechtman had not 12 brought it up, I would also have raised the issue of changing the size and shape of the concrete 13 pad. I would also mention if there are appropriate ADA standards for doing so, that a railing or 14 support post at that point might be worth looking into. Given some changes of that kind, I think 15 a bulbout design can be made to work in all the other respects that we're concerned about. I 16 don't want to dissuade you from looking into other options and I've heard several creative ones 17 that I liked but that's not my call. But I would hope that there will be room for you to look into 18 some of these possibilities in the design phase – the final design phase. All right. I think that's it 19 for me. Commissioner Peterson. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. Thank you, Chair. I'm going to attempt to share my screen. 2 This is always a bit of a hazard. And share screen. Start. Perfect. [Inaudible 2:12:26] lost my – 3 okay. One second here. Okay. I had a drawing but I suppose I will draw it again. Hold on. Where 4 – or can someone help me on where do I find – where's the art [inaudible 2:12:59]? 5 6 Jennifer Armer: Would you like us to share that diagram and then you can mark up the screen? 7 I think that has worked better in the past. 8 9 Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 10 11 Jennifer Armer: Okay. If you would stop sharing and then we can share the image with the little 12 car. 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. That's perfect. 15 16 Commissioner Ji: If you need help drawing it, I can also help as well. 17 18 Commissioner Peterson: There we go. We'll make it through this. Did I stop sharing? I did. All 19 right. And so now I have a drawing tool here. [Inaudible 2:13:33]. I do. Okay. So if I understand 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. correctly, our goal is we want vehicles to do that, more or less. 'Cause it's a northbound 1 problem. I understand that now from looking at the data set. And we want the cars to come up 2 the street, Southwood Drive, make a left-hand turn and continue up towards University Avenue 3 and continue on their way to wherever they're going – across the bay, I suppose – in the 4 afternoon. Is that reasonably correct, looking at the data? That's kind of the challenge we have? 5 6 Ria Lo: Sorry. Can you say the question again? 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: Yes. Is the challenge that we're – the traffic flow that we're having a 9 difficult time with that we're trying to calm is the northbound traffic. Correct? 10 11 Ria Lo: I think it could be both directions. It could also be coming [inaudible 2:14:34]. 12 13 Commissioner Peterson: When I looked at the southbound traffic, it actually increased with the 14 bulb, so it's – and all the traffic was pretty much northbound. There's not a lot of southbound 15 traffic, it looked like on the street. 16 17 Ria Lo: Okay. Yeah. But that would make sense because it's turning right onto University, so 18 yeah. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: Okay. So knowing that that's the challenge we have, it looks like how 1 do we make vehicles make a shallow left-hand turn? 'Cause that's what I understand that's – 2 the bulb is to keep people from cutting the corner. And so one of the solutions that potentially 3 our consultant could look at – and I'll put it here in a different color, we'll go with red, I guess – 4 is if they simply put, say, bollards here or something that's safe, a curb that splits the street so 5 that you're forced to go further before you make that left-hand turn... 6 7 Female: Hm. 8 9 Commissioner Peterson: ...so you're not cutting the corner. 10 11 Female: Yep. 12 13 Commissioner Peterson: Usually, they're those flexible things, like what they have for the bike 14 lane now, so if you hit them, they just knock over. But in general, it just forces traffic to make 15 that slower left-hand turn. And then the other one, I remember last meeting what we talked 16 about was potentially doing what's called a flat gutter, which means it's just a very shallow pan, 17 so to speak. And if we put that shallow pan – I'll use orange, it's almost Halloween – through 18 here, then that removes the curb completely 'cause essentially, it's just a transition from the 19 street into the landscaping, which then if there's a concrete pad, well, the concrete pad is 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. actually at street level now and it's just a slight dip to push a wheelchair through a shallow curb. 1 I think it's called a flat pan curb or something like that. And the gradient here for water, we – 2 last time, we discovered is very shallow. It's like a one percent grade or less, so in that situation, 3 a flat pan gutter usually works okay 'cause the water's moving very slowly anyways. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: Can you do mine? 6 7 Commissioner Peterson: You want me to draw for you? 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: Mm-hm. 10 11 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: Hey, since we have this up, can I draw what I was talking about in 14 case – since it's up? Okay. 15 16 Chair Akin: I think that's appropriate. 17 18 Commissioner Templeton: This green is what I was talking about. So you could still have this 19 bulbout but you'd have a little alley there where people could – right where it currently is, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. where people – so the car would go down here. I don't know. I just thought I'd draw it since we 1 had the drawing. 2 3 Commissioner Ji: Wait. Sorry. Can you explain it again? I didn't quite understand. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: So imagine that this green part is filled in and this is the bulbout but 6 that there's an alley here right between the existing curb and the bulbout... 7 8 Commissioner Ji: All right. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: ...where... 11 12 Commissioner Ji: Thank you. 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: ...a car could go. 15 16 Male: [Inaudible 2:17:40]. 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Akin: All right. I like these ideas and I'm glad we've expressed them. We need to try and 1 bring this item to a close. So what is the message that we would like to craft by a straw poll or 2 other mechanism to send along with staff to Council? Commissioner Templeton. 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: I think we have a couple of things we should talk about. I think 5 process is important. I'm very, very concerned about the potential incongruities between what 6 we decided here to recommend as a PTC body, between that and what ended up being put on 7 Consent Calendar for Council and that you're now coming back saying, "Well, Council already 8 approved what you already recommended," and we didn't do that. So I'm concerned about that 9 and would love to talk about process as part of our recommendations. I know there's other 10 things we need to talk about as well but I just wanna make sure that's on the list too. Thank 11 you, Chair. 12 13 Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 14 15 Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. Sorry. I know we're trying to move into the next phase but I 16 just want to make one last comment about some potential alternatives at the site. So I read in 17 the addendum that the staff provided about the speed humps, about managing vehicle speed 18 within roadway segments. I guess if you put speed humps close-ish to the intersection, 19 wouldn't you also get the reduction in speed that you're looking for at this corner? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ria Lo: Yes. That's a possibility. Or a r-, one of the treatments they sometimes do is a raised 2 crossing. But again, I think that these would be things where w would need to – I think that's a 3 substantial change that we would need to kind of back up in the process. 4 5 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. So what exactly is kind of the staff's interpretation of – within the scope 6 of I guess not large changes. Is it just keeping some kind of bulbout? I'd love to hear kind of 7 what the scope – potential scope is. 8 9 Ria Lo: Yes. So I think the description of the design was that it had a bulbout. The bulbout would 10 be refined and then – so that was kind of the key to that... 11 12 Commissioner Ji: So... 13 14 Ria Lo: ...piece. 15 16 Commissioner Ji: ...is having no bulbout technically considered making changes to the bulbout 17 or there has to be a bulbout in this design? 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ria Lo: I think it – if we're moving forward with the Council direction, I think that it would need 1 to involve a bulbout. So if you have direction to change from that, then I think we need to 2 rethink the process and [inaudible 2:20:43]. 3 4 Commissioner Ji: Thank you. Just wanted those clarification. 5 6 Ria Lo: Yeah. 7 8 Commissioner Ji: Thank you. 9 10 Ria Lo: Yep. 11 12 Chair Akin: I s-, oh. Vice Chair Chang. 13 14 Vice Chair Chang: So this is where I don't know how we – as this is a bit of a pro-, this eludes to 15 the process issue that Commissioner Templeton was bringing up but it was very clear that we 16 wanted [inaudible 2:21:08] look at the bulbout. Okay. We weren't approving any bulbout when 17 this came two years ago. So I don't – I'm disappointed to hear that a no-bulbout option would 18 not be on the table but – because I would love a straw poll on the, "Why don't we just try stop 19 signs?" 'Cause there were on-, there was only one stop sign there before. That seems like a 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. really simple solution to – and I understand that there's – there will – still may be ADA. We may 1 have to fill in that ramp but at least the homeowner has also been objecting to sort of losing 2 the entire front yard. It at least solves that issue. And so I would love to s-, hear what my 3 colleagues think of a "just stop sign" option. 4 5 Chair Akin: So one way to approach this is, since we have a number of suggestions for staff, is to 6 run through them one at a time and simply take a straw poll on whether the rest of us find 7 them acceptable or not rather than trying to drill down to one option out of many but just say, 8 "Here are some things that we think are worth pursuing," so an acceptance vote rather... 9 10 Vice Chair Chang: And... 11 12 Chair Akin: ...than... 13 14 Vice Chair Chang: ...to... 15 16 Chair Akin: ...a first as... 17 18 Vice Chair Chang: ...clarify... 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Akin: ...opposed... 1 2 Vice Chair Chang: ...it's not that we would be picking one. We would just go through them one 3 by one and say – you could vote for multiple ones. 4 5 Chair Akin: Yes. 6 7 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. 8 9 Chair Akin: That's what I had in mind. 10 11 Commissioner Templeton: I would suggest that staff read back the list and we could poll if – I 12 didn't hear any bad ideas tonight, so I'm not really sure we need to vote on them one by one 13 but if staff wants to read back and if we had one that was not fully formed or they have 14 questions about, we could clarify it but really, the ball is in their court. They should – that – 15 we've given a lot of hopefully very useful feedback. 16 17 Chair Akin: I'm probably receptive to that but first, I need to hear what Commissioner James 18 has to say. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner James: Well, I was basically just gonna echo that. I feel like we might be able to 1 accomplish the same thing by saying not one item per – 'cause I'm certainly not qualified to say 2 it's this one but I think the general consensus is that we really wish that there was exploration 3 of other alternatives besides this bulb design. I'm not the procedural expert here either but I – 4 that's just kind of my sense of – that we maybe could get to the same place. 5 6 Vice Chair Chang: So the Chair did call on me, just by pointing. I think if we do that, I would like 7 to be – say, "including these – including ideas such as these," because apparently, we were not 8 specific enough last time, and somehow our views were misrepresented to Council, so I would 9 wanna be very clear. 10 11 Chair Akin: Commissioner James. 12 13 Commissioner James: I mean, this is – but I'm – I assume we can do "including but not limited 14 to" or something, just to kind of make room for an idea that was better than any of the ones 15 that we brought up. 16 17 Chair Akin: Sure. Commissioner Peterson. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: I just wanted to reiterate Vice Chair Chang's comment, that whatever 1 we do, we want to make sure that we are not misunderstood. 2 3 Chair Akin: Commissioner Templeton. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: I also want to talk about the issue that Commissioner Hechtman and 6 I brought up and maybe we were – landed on different sides of, about whether or not the 7 agreement of the property that is affected is required, important, a priority, a deal-breaker. So 8 maybe that's a separate issue than the design, so that's a – probably a third vote. Thank you. 9 10 Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 11 12 Commissioner Ji: At this time, are we presenting ideas that we discussed are within the scope of 13 this or are we discussing how to – also more broadly? 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: I thought staff was gonna read back what... 16 17 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: I mean sure they took really good notes about all our ideas but 1 [inaudible 25:57]. 2 3 Commissioner Ji: I... 4 5 Jennifer Armer: If... 6 7 Commissioner Ji: ...guess my question is, is... 8 9 Jennifer Armer: ...if I... 10 11 Commissioner Ji: ...that – yeah. 12 13 Jennifer Armer: ...yeah. If I could jump in, I don't have a concise list put together. There have 14 been a lot of ideas thrown out, so I'm not gonna be able to jump in, as I often try to... 15 16 Ria Lo: [Inaudible 2:26:12]. 17 18 Jennifer Armer: ...to give you – oh. I think we've got a list of five things that we could list and 19 then if there were ones that were missed, it – we could add to that. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ria Lo: However, I think that – I mean, we're not designing things tonight. It'd need to go 2 through the engineering process as well and not all of these might achieve the goals but what I 3 wrote down was relocating the concrete pad, a smaller bulbout, a split lane, and channelizers to 4 the intersection, and the three stop signs. [Inaudible 2:26:42]. 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: We also discussed removing the pilot and... 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: [Inaudible 2:26:46]. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: ...we also discussed delaying... 11 12 Ria Lo: Okay. 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: ...the re-, permanent installation... 15 16 Ria Lo: Okay. 17 18 Commissioner Templeton: ...to a future date in which it would be less inconvenient. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ria Lo: Okay. 1 2 Chair Akin: All right. So if the first goal is to determine whether there are any of those options 3 that we – to which we would object [inaudible 2:27:21]. 4 5 Commissioner Peterson: [Inaudible 2:27:21]. 6 7 Chair Akin: I'll finish the thought and then follow up, Commissioner Peterson. So the first goal is 8 simply to say, do we accept all of these possibilities as things we would recommend that you 9 consider, then I think that can be fairly straightforward. We simply list them and if there are no 10 significant objections from commissioners, then that concludes that straw poll. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 2:27:56]. 13 14 Chair Akin: All right. And now I turn it over to Commissioner Peterson. 15 16 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. The flat pan curb. 'Cause I actually suspect possibly 17 in the latest design we have, that is representing a flat pan 'cause the representation of it, if I 18 was building it, I would actually interpret that as a flat pan, which it makes a lot of sense on that 19 kind of a bulbous turn to have – to not have a hard right-angle curb on that. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 2 3 Commissioner Ji: I was wondering if one of the things that I talked about at the very beginning 4 with having the ramp all the way at the front was included in this list. 5 6 Ria Lo: Can you explain that? 7 8 Commissioner Ji: Oh, yeah. Because some of the discussions around the ADA issue was because 9 the intersection – moving the crosswalk section to a different component. Again, I'm not an 10 expert in ADA law but just trying to throw some ideas out there. 11 12 Chair Akin: Okay. Given that we've all – that we've reviewed all of the options within the last 13 couple of minutes, do we need them read back or can we simply express our interest in all of 14 these as potential options in a straw poll? All right. Then I will request a show of hands. Do we 15 support investigation of all of the options that have been listed as potential alternatives or 16 modifications to the current proposal? Raise hand if the answer is yes. Okay. So that's a 17 straightforward process. What can we say about this that we would like to carry forward? 18 Commissioner Templeton. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: I'll start. We recognize that we've had a lot of staffing changes and 1 that staff's always intention is to represent us faithfully, I think. I would be interested – maybe 2 not tonight. I'm not gonna put you on the spot but I would be interested in hearing how we can 3 do better, maybe what reflections the staff might have to suggest because we do save hours by 4 not excruciatingly poring over every single thing here in this meeting. I have many times said I 5 trust you guys to represent us faithfully to Council and it is concerning to hear that there may 6 have been times where that process fell apart or things slipped through. And everybody's 7 human, so that's not – there's no expectation of perfection but if we are to be able to say, 8 "Have you got it?" and you say, "Yes," and trust that process, we do need to be able to circle 9 back. And I know you're doing your best working with the staff and that's a level of trust we've 10 been talking about, even at the retreat. We're trying to develop that. But this is definitely an 11 area to flag, so do you think it would be reasonable to circle back with us on suggestions or we 12 just leave it at that? How do we – what's the best, most transparent way with the community 13 to be clear that we're gonna do better going forward? 14 15 Jennifer Armer: Thank you for that question and yes, this is something that we have discussed. 16 It was part of our discussion at our retreat earlier this month about staff efforts to ensure that 17 the representation in the staff report is clear as to what the complete recommendation from 18 the Planning and Transportation Commission was, particularly if it's a split vote or something 19 unique like this, where there are different components. And we have committed to work on 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that. We also discussed things like including the liaison in attending those meetings or taking 1 look at those reports, so that if there is clarification that's needed, we're identifying those and 2 we appreciate the efforts of the liaisons when assigned to work in support and help make sure 3 we are catching those moving forward. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: We have also in the past had a liaison from Council attend Planning 6 Commission meetings. Does that still occur? 7 8 Jennifer Armer: It does not. It's something that Council has chosen not to move forward with. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Do you think that if they were advised of potential issues like this 11 that that would change things? 12 13 Jennifer Armer: I'm not gonna make a judgment call on that... 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: It was... 16 17 Jennifer Armer: ...but... 18 19 Commissioner Templeton: ...rhetorical... 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Jennifer Armer: ...it is... 2 3 Commissioner Templeton: ...anyway. 4 5 Jennifer Armer: ...quite... 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: That's fine. 8 9 Jennifer Armer: At this point, the decision was not to have a liaison from Council attending 10 either Planning and Transportation Commission or the Architectural Review Boards. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: So in order to save that time, it really hinges on faithful 13 representation of our work, so I – who is – you said we don't need to go to the next one 14 because it's on Consent Calendar? Ahem. So... 15 16 Jennifer Armer: But we would welcome you taking a look at the report... 17 18 Commissioner Templeton: Well, I was just... 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: ...if there... 1 2 Commissioner Templeton: ...wondering... 3 4 Jennifer Armer: ...are concerns. 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: ...who's up next. I can't remember. God help me if it's me. 7 8 Jennifer Armer: For the month of September, Kevin Ji is the primary. For October, Todd James is 9 primary. 10 11 Commissioner Templeton: All right. 12 13 Jennifer Armer: For November, Forest Peterson. And December, Bart Hechtman, plus we've got 14 the backups. That is listed in every packet that you receive for Planning and Transportation. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: I am looking right at it. Thank you. So Commissioner Ji, are you 17 planning to go to the next one? 18 19 Commissioner Ji: I wasn't originally but now... 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: Yeah. 2 3 Commissioner Ji: ...that – given this situation that we've seen today, I think it would be 4 important. I'll happily look at the packet ahead of time and take a look to see [inaudible 5 2:34:52]. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: If you wish or we can always write a letter together. Perhaps the 8 Chair could write a letter and Vice Chair and we could all sign on, just bringing this to their 9 attention if that's a better alternative. But I think in conjunction with Ms. Armer's suggestions 10 on process internally, being able to transparently communicate that the process is not perfect 11 and that they should read closer may be useful to them. Thank you. 12 13 Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson. 14 15 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to take a moment to thank the 16 homeowner. Thank you for your time being here and I hope we – you enjoy the meeting 17 somewhat. It's not completely terrible to be here. We do appreciate you being here. You're a 18 role model for all of us that you're keeping the process honest. You're keeping the process 19 responsive to the community. And I can tell you, at least for myself, through the experience of 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. working with you, that going forward, other residents maybe that don't have as strong of a 1 voice from you – I can tell that in your career, you probably achieved a lot and you were not 2 somebody to oppose – that we'll do better for other residents as well because of you. So thank 3 you. 4 5 Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji. 6 7 Commissioner Ji: Apologies if this has already been addressed. Staff, do you mind just 8 reiterating what the next steps in the process given our comments have been? It goes to 9 Council. I know because it changed from an action item to a study session, I just wanna be crisp 10 about where this is headed next. 11 12 Ria Lo: I think given the feedback that I've heard today, I think I need to get some advice on 13 how we should proceed. So the original intention was to go to Council with the design of these 14 options here but at – it seems that the wires have been crossed at some point and I apologize 15 for that. That was not our intention. And I – so I wanna get some advice on how we should 16 proceed from this point. 17 18 Commissioner Ji: All right. Thank you. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Akin: All right. I believe that's sufficient process, so if there are no other issues to be 1 brought up, perhaps this item is concluded. Seeing no other lights. I expect the next item to 2 involve a good bit of comment, so I think we should... 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 2:37:28] talk about whether – sorry, Chair. I don't think 5 we talked about whether or not the homeowner's agreement to what's happening, to what 6 level – are we planning to talk about that? We brought that up as a third item. We've only 7 addressed two. 8 9 Chair Akin: Yeah. We did bring that up, although I don't know that we can approach a solution 10 tonight. Did you have something in mind? 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: I thought we would discuss it and staff can take it into consideration. 13 That was all. It was a s-, it's a study session, so we wanted to have a – since we had differing 14 opinions up here. Commissioner Hechtman and I both have had our voices expressed but I'm 15 not sure how anyone else feels about it. 16 17 Chair Akin: All right. I will open it up for that but I wanna put a time limit on it because we do 18 need to get moving on other things. So it is about 8:24, so by 8:30, let's wrap up this item. 19 Commissioner Peterson. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Peterson: I guess I get the opening talk on this. So I just wanna say that I think 2 talking with the homeowner is important, just – if we're putting value thoughts out here, I was 3 raised with a strong tradition of in California, family land ownership and stuff like that. And I 4 was taught that the landowner has to at some point agree. Now you always have eminent 5 domain that can come in and take the land and we all hear stories about that. There's Westerns 6 and stuff about it. But at the end of the day, the homeowner – the landowner or the 7 homeowner should be in agreement. And the old one was, "If you wanna take my land, good. 8 Go buy some other land. Give me the keys for it. I'll go move over there and then you can have 9 my land." Which resident – one of the residents mentioned that. "If I get – if you just give me 10 money, where am I gonna buy a house from? Go buy me a house..." 11 12 Jennifer Armer: I-... 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: "...give me that... 15 16 Jennifer Armer: ...if... 17 18 Commissioner Peterson: "...house." 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: ...if... 1 2 Commissioner Peterson: So... 3 4 Jennifer Armer: ...if I may... 5 6 Commissioner Peterson: ...I'll leave... 7 8 Jennifer Armer: ...jump... 9 10 Commissioner Peterson: ...it there. 11 12 Jennifer Armer: ...in, I – sorry, Commissioner, for interrupting. But I did wanna make it clear 13 that there is not any use of private land proposed on this. So there isn't any... 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: There... 16 17 Jennifer Armer: ...eminent... 18 19 Commissioner Templeton: ...there... 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Jennifer Armer: ...domain... 2 3 Commissioner Templeton: ...is... 4 5 Jennifer Armer: ...or... 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: ...the prevention of the existing level of use of the current land. 8 9 Jennifer Armer: I understand that there is concern about the access and the change in that to 10 the existing property but none of the improvements would be on private land and I just... 11 12 Commissioner Peterson: I understand... 13 14 Jennifer Armer: ...wanted... 15 16 Commissioner Peterson: ...that. 17 18 Jennifer Armer: ...to make sure... 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: But the... 1 2 Jennifer Armer: ...that's... 3 4 Commissioner Peterson: ...comment... 5 6 Jennifer Armer: ...clear. 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: ...stays. 9 10 Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman, you had some thoughts about this earlier. Would you like 11 to follow up? 12 13 Commissioner Hechtman: Sure. I think at the conclusion of the last time this was here, I said the 14 same thing. Private property owners do not get to veto public works projects. That's the 15 bottom line. If that were true, virtually every public works project would be stopped in its 16 tracks. Here, what I have encouraged – as I did last time –is for staff to meet with this property 17 owner and help the property owner see what staff sees because I believe what staff sees is this 18 can work for their particular situation. And so ideally, that would result in the property owner 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. saying, "Yeah. I can work with that." But that is not a prerequisite to moving forward with the 1 project in my view. 2 3 Chair Akin: All right. I have Commissioner Templeton and Commissioner Ji and let's make it fast. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, Chair. I know you keep telling us that but it's really 6 important to people to be able to feel they can be heard at this Commission. That is the whole 7 point we're here, so I'll take my time, thank you. But the idea of suggesting that this person is 8 vetoing a public works project is not a faithful representation of what I said or what I think. I 9 think that is a straw man that is easily torn down because no one would look at it like that. But 10 this project was brought forth to help the neighbors in this community and it's not working. It 11 hasn't met any of its goals. The data doesn't say that this pilot should be moved forward. It was 12 put in front of Council in a way that they approved it without thoughtful consideration based on 13 the presentation and we're hearing from the homeowner and other people who've lived at this 14 property that this is a problem. So to what extent do we wanna listen when there's a problem 15 when a public works project is affecting one property and preventing access and use thereof? It 16 does feel like an overstretch of the City. 17 18 So I do want to be able to incorporate that feedback and to encourage Council to listen to that 19 feedback 'cause I imagine if somebody were to do something that would prevent me from 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. easily getting in and out of my own home, I would be just as frustrated. I would not want to 1 have to climb something dangerous to get in and out of my home. I would not want it to be 2 difficult for my children to visit me or for me to get out and go to a movie or go to the store or 3 anything like that. So I feel empathy for that. And if that is not part of the conversation and that 4 hasn't been represented to Council, that concerns me. So that's where I'm coming from in 5 saying it should be part of the story. It doesn't have to be the whole story. But that's not the 6 same as a veto. However, our direction to the Department of Transportation at our last 7 meeting was to please work with the homeowner and try and come up with a solution that 8 works for them. And that hasn't happened, so for me, it hasn't met the bar yet. Thank you. 9 10 Chair Akin: Commissioner Ji and then Vice Chair Chang. 11 12 Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. I wanna echo Commissioner Templeton's comments. The 13 reason why I applied for the PTC was to hopefully provide a voice for the community, so I want 14 to say that. On a more tactical level, one thing I just want to elevate is I'm hoping that the Office 15 of Transportation listens to some of the suggestions from Chair Akin about going and just 16 watching Mr. Girand get in and out of his car. I think that could provide some valuable insight. 17 18 Ria Lo: Would you like a response? We cannot force him to demonstrate how he gets in and out 19 of his car. It was requested. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Akin: Vice Chair Chang. 2 3 Vice Chair Chang: So I think what – I think we hear-, the thing about this process that bothers 4 me isn't so much that they didn't hear the public comment. And I don't think we were the – I 5 don't think anybody thinks that one homeowner gets to veto a public works project. I think the 6 challenge is that the PTC's direction, which incorporated our hearing all the public comments, 7 was ignored. And as a – that doesn't seem like what we want to do, for sure. Kind of regardless 8 of an individual homeowner or not, what the PTC's direction is should be faithfully reported. 9 10 Chair Akin: Further comments? All right. I think we are concluded with this item. It is currently 11 8:30. I suggest, given that we are likely to have a long session coming up, that we take a 10-12 minute break and return. 13 14 Action Items 15 Public Comment is Permitted. Applicants/Appellant Teams: Fifteen (15) minutes, plus three (3) minutes rebuttal. 16 All others: Three (3) minutes per speaker. 17 18 3. PUBLIC HEARING / QUASI-JUDICIAL. 4075 El Camino Way [23PLN-00202]: 19 Recommendation on Applicant’s Request for an Amendment to a Planned 20 Community Ordinance (PC-5116) to Allow for Modifications to an Existing 121-Unit 21 Assisted Living and Memory Care Facility. CEQA Status: Exempt from the Provisions 22 of the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) in Accordance with CEQA 23 Guidelines Section 15301 (Modifications to Existing Facilities). 24 25 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Akin: Welcome back, everyone. This is a quasi-judicial hearing on an applicant's request to 1 amend a Planned Community Ordinance, PC-5116, to modify an existing assisted living and 2 memory care facility at 4075 El Camino Way. We have a recusal tonight and I will ask for 3 disclosures after that. 4 5 Commissioner Ji: Yep. I would like to recuse myself from this item just formally on the record 6 here given that I have previously advocated about this project and now ser-, prior to serving on 7 the PTC and now I do. And the – Mr. Yang has said that I may participate if I'd like as a member 8 of the public. 9 10 Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner Ji. Do I have disclosures from any other commissioners on 11 this item? 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: No disclosures. 14 15 Commissioner Peterson: No disclosures. 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: I did a site visit again. 18 19 Chair Akin: No disclosures for me. Commissioner James? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner James: Yes. Thank you. I also did a site visit. 2 3 Chair Akin: And Commissioner Hechtman. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: No disclosures. 6 7 Commissioner James: I did a site visit. 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: Are site visits disclosures? 10 11 Male: [Inaudible 2:57:52]. 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: I don't think they are. 14 15 Chair Akin: I don't think so either but it's – there's no harm. 16 17 Albert Yang: So actually, just doing a site visit is not necessarily disclosable but if you observed 18 anything there that influences your de-, your thought process, then that's what needs to be 19 disclosed. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Jennifer Armer: Or if you communicate with anyone about the project while you're there. 2 3 Chair Akin: I – if I understood correctly, that was if you receive any information that's not in the 4 public record? 5 6 Albert Yang: That's right. 7 8 Chair Akin: Okay. 9 10 Albert Yang: And sometimes people will make a site visit and then later, they'll say, "Well, when 11 I was there, I noticed X, Y, and Z," and so if there's anything like that, that's what needs to get 12 disclosed at this time. 13 14 Male: Oh. Then no disclosure. 15 16 Chair Akin: Very good. Thank you for the clarification. It's always good to be reminded from 17 time to time. All right. I believe we are – oh. Commissioner James. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner James: Well, I just wanted to add that I did a walk around all sides but I did talk 1 to some neighbors and was – sorry. And I – it did – when I did my walk around, I did visit with 2 some neighbors and was invited into a back yard, so if that is useful. 3 4 Chair Akin: All right. Thank you. That should be sufficient for disclosures. I believe we're ready 5 for the staff presentation now. 6 7 Senior Planner Emily Kallas: Hi. Good evening. My name is Emily Kallas. I am the project planner 8 and I am pulling up my presentation. There we go. There we go. This evening, the PTC is 9 considering an amendment to an existing Planned Community PC zone to allow for the 10 construction of 13 additional assisted living units and 172 square feet of support space to an 11 existing 121-unit assisted living and memory care facility as well as site improvements, including 12 exterior color changes and landscaping. The PC that this is modifying is the 5116 approval for 13 The Avant and 3775 for Palo Alto Commons. Those are ordinance numbers. 14 15 This shows the project location on El Camino Way, adjacent to the neighborhood – single-family 16 residential neighborhood on Wilkie Way. 17 18 This slide summarizes the many public hearings that have occurred up to this point. Most 19 recently, the City Council reviewed the project in May and remanded the project back to the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. PTC, as I will discuss on the next slide. After the PTC makes a recommendation, it will return to 1 Council for a final decision. 2 3 As a reminder, the Planning Commission voted 3-2 in December of last year to recommend 4 approval for only seven of the, at that point, proposed 16 units that do not face Wilkie Way. 5 And then in May, the City Council voted 4-3 to bring the project back to the PTC this evening for 6 a review of a project between 11 and 13 units that would eliminate third-floor units adjacent to 7 Wilkie Way Boulev-, back yards. 8 9 And so this is the site plan as the PTC had reviewed in December. The green highlighted are the 10 areas where the additions to the building are two-story and the yellow were the three-story. It 11 was for 16 new assisted living units and the revised site plan removes three of those third-story 12 units for a total of 13 units proposed. This decreased the floor area by approximately 1,850 13 square feet. It also increased the third-story setback for the new proposed units to 25 feet, 10 14 inches. One of the units is also about 27 feet away and then the other yellow area faces 15 towards The Avant. 16 17 This elevation, the top one also shows what the PTC previously reviewed, with the bottom one 18 being the new revised one. There were at least one Council member and a handful of neighbor 19 comments commenting that they preferred the existing green color scheme and so the green 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. has been reincorporated. That was not discussed in the PTC report, since it's not in the PTC 1 purview. 2 3 A Transportation Demand Management plan and parking plan have been prepared and 4 incorporated into the conditions of approval. The provided parking does meet the zoning 5 minimum requirements. The parking plan includes dedicating spaces for visitors, staff, and 6 residents and the below-grade garage has keycard access for employees. 7 8 The applicant additionally prepared a revised daylight plane revision to assist in the PTC 9 discussion this evening. This was Attachment G. I included three of the sections here on this 10 slide to demonstrate that the 45-degree daylight plane, which is the one that was adopted as a 11 part of the original PC 3775, is what complies with both the existing building and the proposed, 12 the 3/6 daylight plane, which is included for non-residential projects as a PC special 13 requirement in Palo Alto Municipal Code 18.38.150. Does not – the original building was not 14 designed to meet that standard as shown by the sections that show the existing building 15 protruding into that setback. 16 17 As I'm sure we will continue to hear tonight, there have been many neighbor comments for this 18 project, including two neighborhood petitions that I am summarizing here. Concerns include 19 privacy towards the single-family neighborhood, reduced natural sunlight, and a discussion 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. regarding the daylight plane calculations, staff and visitor parking in the neighborhood and the 1 impacts for that neighborhood for parking, a desire for the addition to not request any 2 exceptions from the zoning code, concern that WellQuest is a for-profit company, potential for 3 this – additions to this building to lower local property value and quality of life for the 4 neighbors, and concern that the original PC Ordinance Conditions of Approval have not been 5 enforced. 6 7 This project was reviewed under the California Environmental Quality Act and a categorical 8 exemption under Section 15301 for existing facilities has been prepared. A categorical 9 exemption states that there are no ex-, anticipated environmental impacts of this project. 10 11 Staff recommends that the PTC take the following action to recommend approval of an 12 ordinance amending PC 5116 to allow the proposed increase in units and associated 13 modifications to the development plan and recommend approval of the record of land use to 14 Council based on findings and subject to conditions of approval. But again, we recognize that 15 the PTC made the recommendation to only approve a portion of the units and the PTC may 16 continue to have that be their recommendation moving forward. 17 18 This concludes my presentation. The applicant is also present and has an a-, a presentation 19 prepared. Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Akin: Thank you, Ms. Kallas. If I understand the process correctly, we ask our clarifying 2 questions of staff before the applicant's presentation. 3 4 Jennifer Armer: You may. Yes. 5 6 Chair Akin: So commissioners, any clarifying questions for Ms. Kallas? Commissioner Peterson. 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. So the first question I have is I'd like to better 9 understand the CEQA exemption on this one. I'm not completely experienced with CEQA. It's 10 California Environmental... 11 12 Female: Quality. 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: ...Quality Act? And just not sure what does an exemption mean? 15 What's the criteria for an exemption? 16 17 Emily Kallas: There are over 30-something exemptions and essentially, it is a list that is 18 incorporated into that state law that says certain projects that meet certain characteristics are 19 not required to prepare a more intensive document, such as an indiv-, Environmental Impact 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Report, EIR. And so in the case of this project, because the square footage being added is under 1 a certain threshold, it is considered exempt and the proper documentation has been prepared 2 based on that. 3 4 Commissioner Peterson: So it's a de minimis exemption, so to speak? I don't know if that's the 5 right term. 6 7 Emily Kallas: I don't believe so. This is – so Section 15301, the 300s all are that list of categorical 8 exemptions and so 301, number 1, existing facilities, additional to existing facilities. It 9 continues: 302, 303. There's... 10 11 Commissioner Peterson: So it's exempted as an existing facility exemption? 12 13 Jennifer Armer: Yes. It's a minor addition to an existing facility. Mr. Yang, did you want to add? 14 15 Albert Yang: I guess just the broader context is that there are, as Ms. Kallas said, approximately 16 30 categories of projects that the State has determined are going to almost always not have 17 enough effects to require additional documentation. And there are exceptions to the 18 exemptions when you have unusual circumstances but those – staff determined that those do 19 not exist here. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Peterson: Mr. Yang, which exemption are we under? [Inaudible 3:09:11]. 2 3 Albert Yang: For – so we're using the existing facilities exemption. 4 5 Commissioner Peterson: Existing facilities. All right. Thank you. That answers my question. 6 7 Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. So a clarifying question to the staff. Ms. Kallas, the staff 10 report indicates that the direction from the City Council – and I have not watched that meeting 11 – was to send this back to the PTC to look at a range of 11 to 13 units, none of which are on the 12 third floor facing Wilkie. So when I look at the plan that the applicant has prepared – and they'll 13 be speaking momentarily – it appears to me that two of the proposed new units are third floor 14 facing Wilkie, and so I'm wanting to know from staff whether staff views the plan that's come 15 forward since the Council meeting as consistent with the Council direction in that regard as to 16 the third-floor units. 17 18 Jennifer Armer: I'm gonna jump in and – in the end, that determination is gonna be up to 19 Council to decide whether this consistent but I think, as you pointed out, the direction did 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. include removal of the third floor that con-, the concerns – as I'm sure the applicant will discuss 1 – they attempted to address the concerns from Council by having those face a different way 2 and – sorry for jumping in but if you had anything to add to that. 3 4 Emily Kallas: I think the only thing I would add is that Council did have discussions with the 5 applicant during the meeting regarding project feasibility. The applicant will certainly speak 6 more to that, I'm assuming. But that is part of the reason why we wanted to allow the applicant 7 to bring this version of the project forward. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Sure. And I'm looking forward to hearing their presentation but 10 having not watched the Council meeting, so not really knowing the flavor, it doesn't sounds like 11 the direction that the applicant was given was under no circumstances, period, nothing on the 12 third floor. It seems like at least there was some dialogue with the Council about the concerns 13 they were having about third-floor units. So that it was maybe short of a "there's no way we're 14 ever going to approve this" kind of sentiment from the Council. Is that fair? 15 16 Emily Kallas: It is – it was a 4-3 vote. It certainly wasn't unanimous. There was a lot of variation 17 in Council's opinion on this project. 18 19 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Akin: Other clarifying questions? I have just one I'll pursue at the moment and this is 2 related to the TDM. Page 28 of the TDM plan discusses data verification and I was curious as to 3 what entity performs the data verification for the TDM. 4 5 Emily Kallas: TDMs are required to provide annual reports to the City. Those will go through the 6 Office of Transportation. 7 8 Chair Akin: I just meant the physical process of doing the verification. So OoT would be 9 responsible for that? 10 11 Jennifer Armer: I think that's the response we've got at this time. We can take a look at that 12 specific language and respond further if we've got anything more [inaudible 3:13:09]. 13 14 Chair Akin: Okay. Thank you. That's certainly fine for now. Further clarifying questions? All right, 15 then. I believe we are ready for the presentation from the applicant. 16 17 Steve Sandholtz: Good evening. I'm Steve Sandholtz of WellQuest. I should clarify, WellQuest is 18 not the owner of the community. WellQuest is the manager of the community. So we're a fee 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. manager that provides senior living services to a number of communities in California, including 1 Palo Alto Commons. But we work closely with the owners on trying to achieve their objectives. 2 3 I'll keep this pretty short. This project's been discussed a lot with this Commission and wanna 4 be respectful of everybody's time. We know the neighbors want their time and we'll be happy 5 to respond to questions. But what we – the discussion at the last Council meeting, as we heard 6 it, was first, they were looking at your recommendation – this Cou-, this Commission's 7 recommendation – to limit the project to seven units where no units were built on the Wilkie 8 Way side of the property. That project, they asked us, "Is that feasible economically?" We said 9 no. We don't find that project to be economically feasible, that the fixed costs of doing any 10 renovation for that limited number of units just didn't make sense, didn't work for us. So then 11 the discussion turned to what could work and the reason there was a discussion between 11 12 and 13 units is because 11 is if you remove all third-floor units from the Wilkie Way side; 11 is if 13 we just removed the units that were closest to the property line. And so that – the decision to 14 kind of go to 13 versus 11 was really our decision, that we felt like that was following the spirit 15 of the recommendation, to remove the most objectionable units that were closer to the 16 property and back away from the property line but it also helped with the project feasibility. 17 18 So we have continued to make changes to the project to address the neighbors' concerns. Don't 19 think we'll ever address all of them. I think we've tried to address their privacy issues by pulling 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. back from the property line on the units that are highest up, by orienting windows to where 1 they're not looking directly into the Wilkie Way neighbors' back yards. We've talked about 2 planting and we're willing to kind of put whatever trees they're interested in. Again, balancing 3 their concerns of too much shade with not enough privacy. And so that one kind of cuts both 4 ways but we're really prepared to put trees that they find acceptable into the landscaping plan. 5 6 We've addressed the paint color. They didn't like some of the colors that we've used as we've 7 redone the building and wanted something that was more, I guess, muted on their side, and so 8 we've proposed to change that to a green that we hope everybody finds acceptable. In the end, 9 we're – the direction we got from Council was that they did see public benefit in this project, 10 would like to find a way to thread kind of the needle and address neighbors' concerns but still 11 have something that's feasible to provide additional senior housing units to the Palo Alto 12 community. 13 14 So that's kind of what's brought us to this point and back to the conversation with you. Our 15 architect is here and could walk through the changes that were made on the three units that 16 were removed and how that has changed the plan. I think staff covered that pretty well, so 17 we're happy to have them take time, if you'd like to hear from them but we're also happy to 18 finish our presentation with just these comments. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Akin: Thank you. We'll have an opportunity to ask questions of you after public comment. 1 So if there are, then hopefully they can be addressed then. 2 3 Steve Sandholtz: Great. 4 5 Chair Akin: Thank you very much. All right. The next step is public comment. Mr. Tavera, could 6 you remind everyone of the rules for length of time for comments? 7 8 Samuel Tavera: Yes. Through the Chair and board policies, I want to just share that we have two 9 group speakers and per policy, we have – groups representing five or more are allowed to have 10 up to 10 minutes to speak, per the Chair's discretion. And then individual speakers can have, 11 per the discretion of the Chair, up to three minutes. So with that being said, at the moment, I 12 do have those two group presentations, who are representing those groups and then beside 13 that, I do have 17 individuals requesting to speak, including on Zoom. 14 15 Chair Akin: Mm. So we may have to cut down the individual time a bit, as that's 51 minutes 16 worth of individual speakers plus 20 minutes for the groups. Let's see if we can do two minutes 17 per individual speaker and we'll retain the 10 minutes for the groups. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Samuel Tavera: Okay. Yeah. And then just give me a moment as the group speakers do have 1 presentations that I'm gonna pull up. I'm gonna invite Lily L., speaking on behalf of five, to come 2 up to the public mic. Give me one second. 3 4 Lily Lee: Okay. 5 6 Samuel Tavera: [Inaudible 3:19:48]. 7 8 Lily Lee: All right? 9 10 Samuel Tavera: Yep. 11 12 Lily Lee: Good evening, members of the PTC. Thank you so much for giving a chance for us to 13 share our perspective. My name is Lily Lee. I live – I've lived at 4080 Wilkie Way since 2003 and 14 in this neighborhood since 1997. Next slide. 15 16 So historically, my family and I have supported senior services and we feel that historically, Palo 17 Alto Commons was a good neighbor and that's why we had supported adding the seven interior 18 units, which the PTC has already approved. However, I wanna start with some historical context 19 to explain why we support the PTC's prior vote to approve only these seven interior units and 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. not the proposed additional construction in the back of six housing units and two offices. And 1 I'll explain how things have changed and that the current proposal violates both commercial 2 and residential setback and daylight plane requirements. Next slide. 3 4 So first, I believe everybody agrees that Palo Alto Commons is a commercial development, not 5 residential. You'll see from the record from 1987 that in 1978, the PTC and City Council 6 specified that this lot be downsized to protect neighbors from over-intrusion and to create a 7 transition between the residential and commercial areas. Next slide. 8 9 And the owner, Mr. Reller, committed to maintain comparable density and mass, which is 10 great. Next slide, please. 11 12 And at that time, the architect agreed to reduce third-floor impacts and to have a 1-2-3 step-up 13 close to the property line. Next slide. 14 15 And the architect also addressed the feeling of the wall of the building. So in 1987, even though 16 the commercial zoning may have been 10-foot setback and a 3/6 daylight plane, maybe given 17 all the efforts of Mr. Reller and the architect to reduce impacts, the PC zoning requirement of 18 the 10-foot setback and 45-degree daylight lane might've been not unreasonable. However, it's 19 been a long time since 1987 and things have changed, so one is that the new plans for 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. expansion are no longer consistent with what you see in the record from the original 1 agreement. They increased density massing and removed step-ups. And second, the 2 neighborhood context has changed. There's now more people and more parking and traffic 3 pressure. So next slide. And next slide after that. 4 5 So here's a reminder that for any new commercial construction, that would be required to 6 follow a 10-foot setback and a 3/6 daylight plane. So the next slide please. And even if the new 7 construction were residential, then it would be allowed a 45-degree daylight plane but this is 8 not residential construction and it would be required to have a 20-foot setback. Next slide, 9 please. 10 11 So for the Cycle 6 plans, this – if this expansion were to follow the appropriate commercial 12 requirements, it would have to use a 3/6 daylight plane. So you'll see on the left that this would 13 make some units noncompliant. And even if the project were considered residential, which it's 14 not, then on the right, you'll see that some units would also be noncompliant because they 15 would be closer than the 20-foot setback. So you might say, "Oh, the PTC and the City Council 16 could disregard these normal standards because this project is special, so it can make 17 exceptions for PCs." I believe the City already has something like 98 PCs and so that's a lot of 18 exceptions. And maybe you think, "Oh, this is okay because of the benefits of senior services." 19 However, you already created a PC for this project that already had certain documented 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. understandings to minimize density, mass, and the wall effect and so is it really right to take 1 advantage of this kind of loophole to make it worse now? So let me show you some pictures to 2 remind you of what the project already looks like. Next slide. 3 4 So this is the impacts in real life, now, before the expansion. Next slide. And this is a place 5 where one floor will be added under the new proposal. Next slide. So this is currently a 20-foot 6 setback but now the – with the new additions, it will come closer. Even though the new plans 7 show fewer residential units, which is what people keep talking about, if you look closely at the 8 plans, you'll see that it keeps the two offices that it wants to add and those are 10 to 11 feet 9 behind the back fences of myself and another neighbor. So the next slide, please. And so this is 10 the place that is furthest – the building is furthest from somebody's back fence. So next slide, 11 please. 12 13 So the reason why it might've been in the past 10-foot setback and 45-degree daylight plane 14 was because it was within the requirement for RM-2 that served as guidance, assuming 15 comparable density and mass. However, this new proposal, even with three fewer units, will 16 not give comparable density and mass. Next slide. 17 18 And you might say, "Well, it was okay back then. It's okay now." But things change. So one 19 example, smoking on airplanes was banned in 1989 and nobody wants to go back to that. And 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. in the past, people used outhouses. So if someone wanted to build a new home now using the 1 old standards, they might not be required to include a bathroom. And the City has no PC 2 amendment process, so if we allow this grandfathering here, should we also allow the old 3 requirements to apply for 98 PCs all over town? 4 5 So finally, there's some other things that have changed since 1987. The management is now 6 WellQuest living, which is owned by Flying J Management, a $7 billion corporation that started 7 as an oil company. And FJM has not been following the rules. You'll hear from other speakers 8 that this corporation has violated city requirements for fire safety and for access by people with 9 disabilities and other codes. And in spite of bringing this to the attention of the PTC and the City 10 Council over many months, they're still not compliant. And in fact, in May, the FJM did not 11 follow the City Council procedure when it made a new proposal out of order. So given all these 12 changes since 1987, a 10-foot setback with a 3/6 daylight plane, the – is an appropriate 13 requirement. It is consistent with today's municipal code for new construction. 14 15 So in conclusion, I believe that good governance by the PTC and the City Council means setting 16 clear and consistent community-wide requirements for good reasons and holding all parties 17 accountable to follow those. That sets predictable expectations, fairness, and an even playing 18 field among anyone who wants to do new construction. And so tonight, you have the 19 opportunity to uphold these values here and I urge you to stay with the previous PTC 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. recommendation that you sent to City Council for the seven additional interior units and not to 1 add the six units in the back of residential and two offices. Thank you very much for your time. 2 3 Chair Akin: Thank you, Ms. Lee. 4 5 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Janis I. representing a group of five. 6 7 Janis I.: Hi, everyone, My name is Janis. I live a few blocks away and I've been living in Palo Alto 8 my entire life. And I'll be talking about some of the parking issues that the neighborhood has 9 been experiencing with Palo Alto Commons. Next slide, please. The following slide. 10 11 So we know that parking has been an ongoing issue all the way from 1987 and I know we all 12 have been hearing about this every time that we meet and chat, so I'll go through more of 13 those details in the coming slides as well. Next slide, please. 14 15 So the original PC agreement requires that parking is reported to the City and this is something 16 that we have not seen compliance for in the last 38 years. Next slide. So for the last 38 years, 17 the PC has not been compliant with the reporting any of these issues with parking and even, 18 when at City Council, The Commons admitted that they have never submitted this information, 19 we still have not seen any of this required information. So per staff, since the City Council 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. meeting five months ago, they still have not submitted the required information. So this is an 1 ongoing issue and ongoing compliance issues as well. Next slide, please. 2 3 So let's jump to current day today. So some of the current conditions around parking. Next 4 slide. So I've got a few images that demonstrate the already congested parking in the 5 neighborhood. As you can see, Wilkie is already congested with parking from these areas. Next 6 slide. Here is another photo where we can see the parking challenges on Wilkie with many cars 7 lining both sides of the street. I'll pause here and talk through some of the challenges that we 8 have heard about parking from Palo Alto Commons. So Palo Alto Commons claimed that 9 parking congestion was due to Goodwill customers but neighbors talked to many people 10 parking who said that they are from Palo Alto Commons and that they're Palo Alto Commons 11 employees. 12 13 In conversations with a half-dozen people that have parked on Wilkie, who have said that they 14 are Palo Alto Commons employees, that they fear retribution from The Commons. You can 15 check on indeed.org on the job profile for this organization that there are many comments of 16 frustrated, mistreated workers there. Additionally, people have also started to park on Second 17 Street in addition to Wilkie. Hearing from a nurse, she did not want to raise her concerns 18 because she was afraid of retribution from Palo Alto Commons. A nurse told a neighbor that the 19 employees have been told not to park on Wilkie Way for a few months until after the final 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. decision about planning decisions and to park on Second Street instead. Neighbors on Second 1 Street have reported higher amount of parking afterwards. There are also many folks who are 2 visibly in scrubs, who are believed to be working for Palo Alto Commons, as this is the only 3 employer in the area that would require employees to wear scrubs. 4 5 Going on to the next slides, we'll talk about the bus on Wilkie. So in this photo, we can see that 6 the bus later in the night is parked on Wilkie. There's – these photos can be found on Page 83 of 7 your packets. So maybe a coincidence, that maybe this is just a one-time thing that the bus was 8 parked there. Let's move on to the next slide. Still maybe even more coincidences, just three 9 photos of the bus being parked on Wilkie. Next slide, please. No. Clearly, this is not a 10 coincidence that we keep seeing the bus on Wilkie. This is repeated parking of the bus from 11 Palo Alto Commons on Wilkie. 12 13 Now let's dive into some other parking violations in the Palo Alto Commons area. So here we 14 can see construction material is taking up other parking spaces. Commissioner Summa had 15 called this out in the June 2024 PTC meeting as being unacceptable. Charlene from The 16 Commons promised the ARB in both meetings that they have already fixed this. This was back 17 in 2024 and this has continued to be ongoing issues as well. So next slide. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. On this slide, you can see that the bus and construction parking is taking up space within the 1 Palo Alto Commons. So on this slide, on the photo on the left, the bus is taking up multiple 2 parking spots and then there's construction material taking up more of the parking spots within 3 Palo Alto Commons. Next slide. 4 5 Construction equipment is also taking up parking spaces in the underground parking lot. The 6 parking study found that three of the underground spots are unusable due to construction 7 equipment obstructing spots. Next slide. 8 9 Another thing blocking some of the parking spots are traffic cones. So here, we can see that 10 they have cones blocking off an ADA spot. Many visitors have reported trying to park there but 11 cannot due to the cones that are placed there, blocking that spot. Even as recently as last week, 12 they still have cones blocking the parking spot, so this was still very recent, still an ongoing 13 issues of cones blocking that spot. 14 15 Next, we'll talk about inconsistent valet parking. So Commons claims that they do have valet. 16 There is not always a person who's there, so oftentimes, when neighbors have gone by, there's 17 no valet person to support in these operations. There's often no valet at all, so in these photos, 18 we can see on the left that, middle of the day, that they don't have a valet booth out. And then 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. on the right, we can see that there are a lot of people visiting at this time and yet there's still no 1 valet present. 2 3 Next, we'll go through fire lane blockages. This is also a big issue impacting both Commons and 4 the community. Here, we can see vehicles in the fire lane. This is from April of 2025. Here are 5 more photos of the fire lane being blocked in June 2025. These photos were taken after the City 6 Council meetings and after the PTC meetings, so these are, again, ongoing violations. Next slide. 7 Here again, we see that a vehicle is blocking the fire lane. This is August of 2025. Again, 8 continued ongoing issue. Next slide. Continuing in September of this year, we continue to see 9 this issue. And lastly – next slide – we also see the bus blocking the s-, fire access road in this 10 month. Next slide. And this actually became an issue when a fire truck was blocked from the 11 fire access road. So a fire truck had come but a fire truck could not go into The Commons area 12 because the fire lane was blocked. 13 14 So to wrap this up, we recommend trust but verify. We recommend that existing parking issues 15 be resolved before the project continues in the process, as we continue to see them not 16 adhering and violating actions that they say they that will take both with reporting, providing 17 parking for employees, as well as adding more challenges to the community. Thank you. 18 19 Chair Akin: Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is SP. SP, you may now come to the mic. I have a card here for 2 either SP or JP. All right, then. I will move to Jenny C. 3 4 Female: [Inaudible 3:36:54]? 5 6 Samuel Tavera: Just for clar-, it just says JP or SP. It's just initials, no full name. 7 8 Male: [Inaudible 3:37:07]. 9 10 Samuel Tavera: Yeah. Give me one... 11 12 Male: [Inaudible 3:37:16]. 13 14 Samuel Tavera: Yeah. Next – our next speaker will be Jenny C. 15 16 Jenny C.: Good evening. I'm a Wilkie Way resident. I'm here to oppose Palo Alto Commons' new 17 13-unit expansion project. I echo my neighbors' concerns on daylight plane, parking, and 18 violation of current building code. Thank you. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is James C. 1 2 James Cham: Good evening, commissioners. I'm James Cham, a resident on Wilkie Way. One of 3 the unexpected blessings of The Commons proposal is that I've had a chance to meet many of 4 my neighbors, extending my understanding of our neighborhood and its history. And one of the 5 disappointments has been how The Commons has negotiated in bad faith with no visibility into 6 their actual economics, hoping that we'll forget their past commitments and paper over our 7 legitimate concerns. As I learned from my neighbors, The Commons hopes to break their 8 promise in 1987 that they would not expand towards our neighborhood. And for my own 9 experience, they continue to use parking spaces for construction and cause overflow on our 10 streets. I thought we'd be able to come to some sort of compromise but their concessions have 11 been minimal and ignored our actual concerns. And in many ways, they've not actually followed 12 up. So I'd request the PTC approve the previously recommended seven internal units without 13 the two additional offices they're trying to sneak in. Or alternatively, expand on El Camino Way 14 rather than encroach into our neighborhood. Thank you. 15 16 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Michael J. 17 18 Michael J.: Good evening, commissioners. I stand with my neighbors, opposing the 13-unit plan. 19 The Commons [inaudible 3:39:30] designs rely on outdated 1987 daylight plan too. A new 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. project must meet with today's code or the City risks setting a dangerous precedent. In fact, 1 back to 1987, The Commons promised not to expand toward the neighborhood and this plan 2 breaks their commitment. They have [inaudible 3:39:57] from 16 units to 13, saying the seven is 3 unfeasible. That undermined their credibility. And with $15,000 monthly rent and national 4 corporate owner, they can clearly afford to limit the expansion to seven units or build the units 5 toward El Camino Way. Please hold their – please hold them to today's code and their past 6 commitment. Recommend seven units only. Thank you. 7 8 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Ellen H. Ellen H.? After Ellen H. will be Andie R. 9 10 Ellen H.: Honorable members of the Planning and Transportation Commission, I'm a long-time 11 resident of this neighborhood and I recall when The Commons was developed and designed to 12 maximize its capacity. We had huge debates how the three-story complex would impact the 13 neighborhood and how it would impact adjacent properties. It took much compromising to 14 agree on the building mass, giving up the 20-foot setback for open-air space and staggered 15 stories and a 10-foot setback, assuring the adjacent neighbors this is the extent of the building 16 massing. This project is affecting the community who have already put their – put in their dues, 17 making great sacrifices to light and air, giving up the 20-foot setback for senior housing and 18 now again asked to give up more light and air. The daylight plane ensures no building inside the 19 setback. I agree but this compromise we agreed upon is not the standard. It's a compromise 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. setback and the setback is and was 20 feet. This neighborhood has already lost property value 1 and this project will further erode the value doing this. Any further type expansion would need 2 to be outside the original 20-foot setback as originally zoned. I'm completely opposed to this 3 project expansion in the rear. All the work we did in the past was to ensure property owners 4 their legal right to light and air. This project affects the adjacent 10-family property values, the 5 entire street visibility, acoustically and environmentally, not to mention the emotional well-6 being for losing so much and with the construction affecting everyone, especially seniors. This 7 has to be further studied with an EIS or an EIR and ought to have benefits to the public, such as 8 units for low-income seniors or/and provide solar power to the adjacent affected neighbors. 9 Thank you. 10 11 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Andie R. followed by Shiqi H. 12 13 Andie Reed: Good evening, Chair Akin and commissioners. My name is Andie Reed and I live in 14 Old Palo Alto, not a direct neighbor of the project but we share the plight. I will address the 15 Transportation Demand Management Plan. My question is, who is the TDM addressing? This 16 document encourages employees to walk, ride bikes, carpool, and take buses, which is certainly 17 a good plan but speaks to a specific portion of the car trips arriving at Palo Alto Commons. I 18 supported a close relative in a similar place for 10 years and I can attest to how many 19 contractors, outside services, and deliveries come and go daily, not to mention guests and 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. medical support personnel who visit residents. These folks aren't gonna be taking bikes and 1 walking and taking buses. I remind you that only 15 of the 90-something parking spaces that 2 Avant and Palo Alto Commons share are ungated. Most in-and-out services aren't gonna call 3 the front desk to access the spaces behind locked gates. Where does the TDM address this 4 most important parking issue? My neighborhood experience with TDMs is that the applicant 5 produced their TDM without input from neighbors and the City cast it in stone. The problem is, 6 during meetings like this, sometimes everyone agrees to, "Well, we can see how it goes and 7 make adjustments along the way," but that's not how it works out. Please make clear that the 8 neighbors get input into the TDM before it becomes finalized. The TDM is only good if there are 9 specific rules and consequences for noncompliance. For example, Palo Alto Commons could 10 require employees to park underground. They could leave the underground parking area open 11 during the day and direct visitors into it. They could acquire off-site parking for the employees. 12 They could require identifying stickers. The TDM should give specific direction that improves 13 the impacts on Wilkie Way. Thank you very much for your hard work and I recommend going to 14 your seven units originally recommended. Thank you. 15 16 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Shiqi H. followed by Daniel P. 17 18 Shiqi H.: Dear Palo Alto council members, I'm speaking on behalf of a senior in the community. 19 "I would like to express my support for the decision the PTC made on December 2024 and that 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. is not approving the units to be built against the back yard of Wilkie Way residents. The current 1 tiered structure was the result of a compromise made 38 years ago between The Commons and 2 the residents. The tiered structure has already caused some loss of sunlight and loss of privacy 3 for those residents. Back then, the residents agreed to this sacrifice because The Commons had 4 committed to build this way. The same residents could not have imagined 38 years later The 5 Commons would withdraw their promise and commitments. The new proposed units would 6 cause the residents to lose most of their sunlight and privacy. This is totally unethical and 7 unacceptable and maybe even illegal, given that this commitment was documented. In 8 addition, The Commons has been in code violation for the past 38 years. Also, they have not 9 provided adequate parking, causing many cars overflowing to the neighborhood. On paper, it 10 may appear that they have sufficient numbers of parking spaces but in reality, those parking 11 spaces are either blocked or difficult to reach. Therefore, the number of parking spaces is very 12 misleading and grossly overstated. They claim to have implemented programs to solve the 13 parking issue but when talking to some staff there, they have not heard of such programs. In 14 addition, The Commons claimed to have implemented valet parking but many times, we didn't 15 see a valet person on site. The Commons is showing signs of offering solutions but not – only 16 temporarily as a method to gain approval for their project and only to withdraw later once they 17 have achieved their goals. They cannot be trusted. They need to be held responsible for their 18 proposed solutions on a permanent basis and there should be some kind of monitoring and 19 material punishment if they are caught in violation. Thank you." 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Daniel P. 2 3 Daniel P.: Good evening, everybody. My name's Daniel and I live on 4060 Wilkie Way and I'm 4 here to respectfully oppose the expansion as currently proposed. Earlier tonight, I remember 5 Commissioner Templeton express empathy towards a homeowner losing their safe driveway 6 access and she didn't want people's voice to go unheard. And for me, I really appreciate that 7 because that's exactly how many of us on Wilkie are feeling right now, like our voices and the 8 real impacts on our homes are being overlooked. This proposal still violates the daylight plane 9 [inaudible 3:48:11] code. The applicant is relying on outdated 1987 standards, which opens the 10 City to legal and precedent-settings risk. Meanwhile, The Commons is already out of 11 compliance, using parking for construction equipment, blocking fire lanes, and causing spillover 12 on Wilkie. And even currently, I have a video showing the rooftop operation running in the 13 early morning and throughout the day, producing constant noise that directly impacts the 14 nearby homes. This isn't a small operator struggling to make ends meet. The Commons is 15 owned by FJ Management, a $7 billion revenue national company. They initially claimed that 16 16 units were essential but just before the Council concluded in opposition to their plans, they 17 pivoted to 13, trying to bring the proposal back into play and even though the core issues 18 remain. So that last-minute maneuver doesn't reflect a real compromise. It reflects a strategy. 19 Now we're asking you to uphold the recommendation to approve only the seven internal units. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. No external units. No new offices. And please help us feel like our voices matter just as we 1 heard you say others should. Thank you for your time and for listening. 2 3 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is James P. followed by Nia P. 4 5 James P.: Good evening, commissioners. I have lived at 4080 Wilkie Way on the back of the 6 Commons for the last 22 years. We bought our house with the understanding that The 7 Commons building was full and mature. I've supported more services for seniors when the 8 neighborhood was recently absorbed [inaudible 3:49:54] The Avant project, which added 9 another 40 units to serve seniors. However, I'm opposed to the proposed 13-unit plus two 10 office expansion of The Commons. In 1987, the Commission – sorry – The Commons promised 11 not to expand toward the neighborhood. This proposal breaks that commitment. I urge the PTC 12 to approve the recommendation that was recommended last time it went to PTC, the seven 13 internal units without the additional external units facing Wilkie or the two offices. The current 14 configuration [inaudible 3:50:31] Commons even today is pretty massive, as you saw from the 15 pictures in previous presentations. And it's leading to significant shading, cooling, and loss of 16 privacy in back yards for most residents on that side of Wilkie. We really fear the expansion 17 with the abandonment of setback design will result in even greater loss of value, privacy, and 18 utility. So the current expansion proposes a new – a near solid wall of construction that fills in 19 the entire setback area and this is a clear violation of past assurances. The proposed Wilkie Way 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. facing units would also violate current daylight plane standards, which would further devalue 1 property along Wilkie. So in closing, I urge you to vote no on the project at 13 units, unless 2 modifications can be made to shift the project back to seven interior units and focus any 3 external expansion, if needed, on the El Camino Way side of the property and lessen the 4 community impact of the project. Thanks. 5 6 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Nia P. 7 8 Nia Porter: Hello and thank you guys so much for the opportunity to speak today. My name is 9 Nia Porter and I have lived on Wilkie Way my entire life for the past 18 years. I don't support 10 the expansion as proposed. As my neighbors have already said, even before the additional 11 units, with what we have right now, Wilkie Way and El Camino Way are already very congested 12 with both traffic and parking. This isn't to say that I don't support senior housing. I actually 13 think it's a great thing. I would just prefer for the additional units to be built on the interior or 14 front instead of in the back. I understand that the developer's cost for building in the front may 15 be higher but that difference in cost does fall onto us as Wilkie Way residents. Even now, 16 without the additional units, there's an invasion of privacy. We can clearly see the residents and 17 the residents have an even better view into our back yards because they're higher up. The 18 buildings also block the sun and the sky as it is. Adding additional units to the back would only 19 further diminish the utility of our own back yards. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 It's also worth mentioning that these units are around $180,000 per year. That's well above 2 what most households make in an entire year. I'm all for helping the community and our 3 seniors but I think we do need to recognize that these additional units are only able to benefit a 4 very small, privileged group of seniors and these people aren't even necessarily Palo Alto 5 residents. At the end of the day, FJ Management is also a $7 billion for-profit company. The 6 owner's daughter, who runs the company, even said herself, "Do what's best for the company, 7 not what's best for the family." This doesn't sound like values that would align with what I 8 personally think Palo Alto stands for. Palo Alto Commons has also been inconsistent in their 9 story. Initially, they stated that this project was only financially worth it if they built all 16 units 10 and now they're suggesting a lower number, hinting at the fact that they might actually have a 11 little bit more flexibility than they're revealing. It's possible for them to decrease the number of 12 units overall and for them to shift more of these units to the front. I recommend that you guys 13 only approve the seven units. Thank you for your time and consideration. 14 15 Samuel Tavera: Thank you. Our next speaker is Daniel H. 16 17 Daniel Hansen: Hello. My name's Daniel Hansen. I live on Edgewood Drive. I'm here on behalf of 18 Jeffrey Shore and myself. We share the concerns of our Wilkie Way neighbors. We appreciate it 19 and understand it when proposed land use changes are trying to take away value from your 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. property. FJ Management is a large corporation. It's a – WellQuest is owned by it. The FJ stands 1 for Flying J. You may remember those gas stations from the '60s. They've grown over time. 2 According to Forbes, last year, FJ Management had $7 billion in revenue and was number 89 on 3 the list of the largest private corporations in the U.S. The bottom line here is they can afford to 4 put the project somewhere other than Palo Alto Commons. There's lots of space out there to 5 purchase. They can also afford designs that meet the Wilkie Way neighbors' concerns and 6 Council's direction of no third-story units. Palo Alto Commons is described on its website as 7 luxury senior living. These units rent for an astonishing $7,000 to $15,000 per month. It's hard 8 to imagine the addition of even one unit isn't profitable. Our other concern is that senior living 9 and nursing homes are ripe for exploitation by private equity given the high cash flow, so we 10 suggest that in addition to addressing the neighbors' concerns, the City take steps to ensure 11 that high levels of care remain at Palo Alto Commons, for example, specified nurse-to-tenant 12 ratios, requirements to justify pricing increases, living wage salaries for staff, and preference for 13 Palo Alto residents. Thank you. 14 15 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Penny B. 16 17 Penny Brennan: I join with preceding speakers who oppose the most recent proposal for a 13-18 unit expansion of the Palo Alto Commons. I have two comments to add. First, I'd like to note 19 the increasing traffic and parking problems occurring along Wilkie Way behind the Palo Alto 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commons. Wilkie Way continues to be packed with cars. Recently, some drivers have begun 1 parking their cars on either side of the curve on Wilkie Way where it curves around to meet 2 Second Street. For drivers and bicyclists approaching it, this is a blind curve. The view of 3 oncoming traffic is blocked by parked cars. Furthermore, it is almost impossible to negotiate the 4 curve without ending up in the lane of oncoming traffic. It is a head-on collision waiting to 5 happen if it not – has not already. I'm mentioning this to underscore the ongoing and 6 worsening traffic and parking situation along Wilkie Way, attributable in large part to Palo Alto 7 Commons. The situation will only get worse with the expansion of Palo Alto Commons. Yet 8 developers of the expansion proposals have offered no viable plans for preventing or mitigating 9 the very negative traffic and parking impacts of Palo Alto Commons' expansion on the people 10 who live on Wilkie Way. Second, I know that proponents of Palo Alto Commons' expansion 11 often claim that it provides "public benefit" to Palo Alto because it adds more housing for 12 health-challenged elders in our community. I note that, by virtue of its price point, which is very 13 high and quite in line with its web page branding as "luxury senior living in Palo Alto, California," 14 and its lack of financial accommodations for low-income elders, such as the HUD-assisted 15 housing program at Lytton Gardens, Palo Alto Commons is a housing alternative only for, 16 underscored, wealthy health-challenged elders. Much of Palo Alto Commons – oh. 17 18 Samuel Tavera: Thank you. That concludes your time. Our next speaker is Minami S. Minami S., 19 you may now speak. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Minami Sakakibara: Hi. My name is Minami. I grew up in Palo Alto, going to K-12 schools in 2 PAUSD and I'm reading a letter on behalf of an individual who would like to remain anonymous 3 f-, as the patient is concerned this letter could affect how they are treated by the staff at the 4 facility. All right. "Only once can I ever remember finding a place to park in the visitor lot for 5 Palo Alto Commons. Sometimes a van belonging to the Palo Alto Commons is parked in one or 6 more of those spaces. Another visitor space is reserved for future residents and thus not 7 intended for those visiting current patients. Construction materials or other obstructions 8 sometimes occupy other spaces. And then there are always cars I presume belong to other 9 visitors in what few spaces remain. Not finding a spot in the visitor lot, I then have to exit back 10 into El Camino Way. There are never any other free spaces to park anywhere along El Camino 11 Way because you can't park in many stretches and the rest are already filled with cars, probably 12 belonged to customers of Goodwill. The same is true for West Meadow, so I ended up parking 13 on Wilkie Way. I heard the neighbors on Wilkie are protesting being used as the effective 14 extension parking lot for Palo Alto Commons and I'm sorry that I contribute to their problem. I 15 reached out to them and am grateful they will submit the letter." 16 17 "Please note that there are no handicapped parking spaces in the Palo Alto Commons visitor lot 18 and this adds a further problem. When I brought with me a visitor who is mobility impaired, I 19 had to drop that person off, park on Wilkie, and then literally run back to attend to them. There 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. are a couple signs in the Palo Alto Commons visitor lot indicating one can call for parking 1 assistance. However, to place this call safely requires me to park first somewhere. Since there's 2 no place to park in the visitor lot, this means I have to park first on Wilkie. Once I've done that, 3 there's no point in calling, so the signs don't help at all. I'm sure the staff at Palo Alto Commons 4 want their patients to receive visitors but by having seriously inadequate visitor parking and no 5 handicapped spaces, they're making that much harder for me and others to visit. Fewer visits is 6 detrimental to the health and well-being of those living at the facility. I urge the City to insist 7 that Palo Alto Commons visitors parking be expanded to meet its present need so that I and 8 others no longer need to park on Wilkie. Furthermore, if the number of rooms at Palo Alto 9 Commons is to increase, so should the visitor parking accordingly. Sincerely, name withheld." 10 Thank you. 11 12 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Niles E. Niles E. may now speak. 13 14 Niles Egan: Hello. Dear Chair Akin, Vice Chair Chang, and members of the Planning Commission, 15 I speak today on behalf of a senior neighbor and I appreciate you taking the time, as 16 Commissioner Templeton noted in the prior item, to listen to their perspective, even at this late 17 hour. "I have been following the development and expansion of the Palo Alto Commons ever 18 since it was first built many years ago. For 45 years, I've lived at 360 MacLane Street, just three 19 houses from where Wilkie Way dead-ends. Our daughter's best friend from 1st through 12th 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. grade lived in Wilkie Way with her back yard now totally obscured from sunlight by the Palo 1 Alto Commons. This facility's continuous expansion, including now wishing to build out and fill 2 in their stack units, breaks the agreement they made when they first built it. This blatant 3 disregard of their previous agreement demonstrates their indifference for the impact they have 4 on their neighbors. We cannot have faith that they will adhere to any further agreements. For 5 that reason, you cannot approve the expansion plan. In addition, the impact they have on not 6 providing sufficient parking for their staff and visitors has caused overflow to occur up and 7 down Wilkie Way and even onto MacLane Street, where I live. Especially since they built The 8 Avant independent building, staff and visitors park on my street and sometimes even cut 9 through Jacob's Court as a shortcut to the building. This overflow parking on our street has 10 caused parking issues with tradesmen and workers trying to provide services to our home. We 11 recently had tree service and roofing repairs done as a condition of continuing our homeowners 12 insurance. The workers had difficulty finding adequate parking for their trucks near our home. 13 In the past, my neighbors and I would know to move any cars on Sunday evening but now, cars 14 parked from workers are preventing street cleaning. Please do not approve the current 15 proposal to build out the building. Thank you for your consideration on this issue." 16 17 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is JP. JP, you may now speak. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. JP.: Good evening, Chair Akin, Vice Chair Chang, and commissioners. My name is JP and I've 1 been a lifelong resident of Palo Alto. I want to echo comments made by neighbors and more 2 than 100 residents who have signed the petition opposing the project. The quintessential issue 3 here is simple. Palo Alto Commons has been a poor neighbor. For nearly four decades, they 4 have failed to comply with their original agreements, ignoring parking requirements, skipping 5 mandatory reports, and crowding our streets with staff, cars, buses, and overflow traffic. They 6 promise setbacks and density limits in respect to R-1 neighborhoods but instead, [inaudible 7 4:03:35] expansion attempts that disregard those commitments. Even today, they block 8 visitors, parking with equipment, misuse handicapped spaces, and direct therapists and visitors 9 to park on Wilkie Way. That is now a corporation that's shifting their burden onto the 10 neighborhood. A neighbor recently pointed out that the only reason this project continues is 11 that it relies on the zoning code from when it was originally built. I have a friend who lives 12 nearby who stated that if they rebuilt their house to the original zoning code, they wouldn't 13 even need a proper bathroom; just an outhouse would suffice. This shows how outdated the 14 rules are being used to justify expansion rather than promoting responsible development. I 15 grew up here and I hope to settle down here in the future but I would not want developers like 16 this as my neighbors, developers who break promises, push problems onto the community, and 17 put profit over respect for residents. That's why I respectfully urge you to recommend the – 18 only the seven internal units and reject the additional external units and offices. Palo Alto 19 deserves responsible development, not more of the same broken promises. Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Samuel Tavera: Our next speaker is Peter. Peter, you may now speak. 2 3 Peter: Hi. I'm reading this statement on behalf of a neighbor who wishes to remain anonymous 4 due to fear of retaliation. "Dear Planning and Transportation Commissioner members, at the 5 May 27th, 2025, City Council session on the Palo Alto Commons proposal, Council member Pat 6 Burt did not assume that removing three units will address the problem if there are five units 7 against the Wilkie fences, per the minutes. And when he said this, he was right. The latest plans 8 still show second-floor units in the daylight plane and based on the current rules for 9 commercial and residential PCs in our code. Staff's insistence that this one project gets to use a 10 more relaxed daylight plane blatantly violates the equal protection rights of Wilkie residents. In 11 countless other matters, City staff requires projects to follow our current laws and they should 12 in this case too. We've heard many different stories from Palo Alto Commons. They've said that 13 fewer than 16 units could not pencil out. Now they're eager to have 13 approved but they could 14 move some of those units to the front of the building. For example, the plans show a new office 15 on the second floor, Room 262, at the front. That area could instead lead to a new corridor 16 serving several new residential rooms over the front parking lot. These units would have no 17 impact on Wilkie residents. The latest proposal also fails to address the parking problems. There 18 is strong evidence that Palo Alto Commons is under-parked, including photographs showing 19 their vehicles parking on Wilkie Way in their fire lane. And yeah. And the Council listened 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. closely to past PTC recommendations on this matter, so your best efforts in this round could 1 give Palo Alto Commons the units it wants by relocating some to the front. Protect privacy and 2 daylight for neighbors and end the current flagrant parking violations. Thank you. Sincerely, a 3 Palo Alto resident." 4 5 Samuel Tavera: Thank you. Our next speaker is Shashank. Shashank, you may now speak. 6 Shashank, are you there? All right. I will move on. Our next speaker is Kai P. Kai, you may now 7 speak. Kai, are you there? All right. 8 9 Kai P.: Hello? 10 11 Samuel Tavera: Let me see. Kai, are you there? 12 13 Kai P.: Hello? Can you hear me? 14 15 Samuel Tavera: Yes. We can hear you. 16 17 Kai P.: Hi. Thank you to the PTC for giving us residents the opportunity to weigh in on this issue. 18 While housing – creating more housing and specifically senior housing is incredibly important, 19 Palo Alto Commons, as the – as an entity, I don't know if they are the best organization to do 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that. They have consistently demonstrated their total disregard for the well-being of us 1 neighbors, the residents of Wilkie Way. They – first, they claim to follow the current parking 2 requirements set by the PC while in reality, they just completely disregard it. As shown by many 3 of the other neighbors, the – much of the parking that is on-site is inaccessible to visitors or 4 employees and their own bus has parked either in the fire lane or in – on Wilkie Way. They have 5 – when they've said that they wanted to listen to the neighbors' concerns, they told us that we 6 shouldn't care about our property values because we have a Goodwill next to us and therefore, 7 any sort of impact that Palo Alto Commons could have is completely dwarfed and that should 8 not be a concern for us whatsoever. When asked if they would be able to relocate those rear 9 exterior units to the front of the building, they just said that it was just too arduous a task. It 10 was too hard to move the stairwells on the front where – even though they market themselves 11 as a luxury senior living facility that charges prices to match. I do not believe that Palo Alto 12 Commons should be allowed to build on the ext-, rear exterior facing Wilkie Way but I do still 13 see the importance of creating senior housing, so I urge the PTC to still go with the plan of 14 seven interior units and units on the front, as agreed to before. Thank you. 15 16 Samuel Tavera: And through the Chair, I just wanna confirm that I do not see Shashank on the 17 call anymore and that concludes public comment. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Akin: Very good. Thank you, Mr. Tavera. So the applicant can speak for up to three 1 minutes, if you wish. 2 3 Steve Sandholtz: Okay. I'll try to go quickly. When we were last in front of the City Council, it 4 was for the 16-unit plan. We never said nothing under 16 would – wasn't viable. We said seven 5 didn't work. Daylight plane, we're following the rules that were kind of validated by staff and 6 the ARB. We've shown that there is no real impact to the sunlight. We recognize it's a big 7 building and I think that all these residents bought their homes after the building was already 8 there. We realize it's a big building and that there's trees but what we're proposing we don't 9 think actually changes the sunlight. It's fairly comparable on the massing side. There's been a 10 lot of comments about FJ Management. FJ Management is a partner of WellQuest in three 11 other communities, in the real estate ownership of those communities. FJ Management does 12 not own any of WellQuest living. And Well – and FJ Management is not the owner of Palo Alto 13 Commons. Palo Alto Commons is owned by a local family, the Rellers, that have been long-time 14 Palo Alto residents and have done a lot of good for the senior community here. So understand 15 the comments. Maybe there's some misunderstanding about who owns WellQuest but it – 16 WellQuest is owned by me and my partner. We're a couple of small entrepreneurs. The 17 reporting requirements. We're talking about that with the staff and asking, "Who do we report 18 to? Let's get that going." We're supportive of that. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Parking I think is the ongoing biggest issue. And if we're the sole cause of trouble parking on 1 Wilkie, I don't know that that can be demonstrated but we'd be completely supportive of 2 making Wilkie Way permit parking only. Give the residents of Wilkie Way permits and let that – 3 put that in the window and anyone that doesn't have a permit, ticket them. We're doing 4 everything we can to encourage and support not parking on Wilkie Way. We've put permanent 5 incentives in place for our employees to park on site or to use alternative means of getting 6 there. We do employ valet. If there's not somebody standing in front of the building 24/7, it's 7 'cause we only staff during the day. And if they're off doing something else, then someone 8 could come, take their keys to the front desk, and then valet will park their car. The bus now 9 has a permanent parking location at The Avant and, if you've driven by recently, you will see it 10 parked in front of The Avant. I know one of the recent times last year when it was parked on 11 Wilkie Way, it had a broken window, and there wasn't enough space for them to do it in site. 12 They did park on Wilkie Way, not at our encouragement. It was a window replacement. 13 Construction has ended. That was a temporary condition that did take up some parking, both in 14 front temporarily and in the garage. That has ended. We always try to maintain emergency 15 vehicle access and this doesn't change traffic a lot. So thanks for your time. 16 17 Chair Akin: All right, commissioners. There is an opportunity to ask questions of the applicant at 18 this point. Would anyone like to ask a question? Commissioner Hechtman. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. The last time you were in front of us, the plan had five 1 third-floor units facing Wilkie. The new plan that we're seeing has two. I'd like you to help me 2 understand what, if any, changes have been made to those two from those two when we last 3 saw them? For example, I think Ms. Kallas might've mentioned that they have been set farther 4 back, but I'm not sure, so I'm asking you or your architect. 5 6 Steve Sandholtz: Yeah. I'm gonna have Daniel Bowman, our architect, come address that. 7 8 Daniel Bowman: So those two units, they are not facing the Wilkie Way property line. They are 9 at 45 degrees, windows facing at a 45. Does that answer the question? 10 11 Commissioner Hechtman: Oh, okay, but the last version, they were directly facing? 12 13 Daniel Bowman: No. No. So those units have not been changed... 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 16 17 Daniel Bowman: ...simply because they were already 25 feet away from the property line. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. So those two particular units still showing in your plans are 1 identical to the two that we saw... 2 3 Daniel Bowman: Yes. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: ...last time you were here. 6 7 Daniel Bowman: Yes. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. So then my other question for the applicant – and I 10 mentioned before, I didn't watch the Council meeting but when I read the staff report, it looks 11 like it was a 4-3 vote to send this back with this 11 to 13 recommendation. One of the Council 12 members who voted no wanted seven. The other two who voted no seemed to want a lower 13 number. It's not entirely clear. And so the four who sent it to us said 11 to 13 but nothing on 14 the third floor facing Wilkie. You got a plan that you're asking us to recommend and you're 15 going to go back to Council and I'd like you to tell us what you intend to tell Council to convince 16 those four that these two third-floor units should be approved. 17 18 Steve Sandholtz: Yeah. Our reasoning on that is that they are 25 feet back from the property 19 line and they're not directly fronting the Wilkie Way neighbors. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: Because of the angled approach. Correct? 2 3 Steve Sandholtz: Correct. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. Thank you. 6 7 Chair Akin: Anyone else? If not, okay. I have one. So this is with regard to a couple documents 8 that are included in the TDM plan. Those are the staff participation agreement and the staff 9 parking policy and procedure. One thing that I expected to find there was something very 10 simple: staff may not park on Wilkie Way, MacLane Street, or Second Street as part of the 11 official policy. Is this something you are willing to add to any policy document that's distributed 12 to your staff? 13 14 Steve Sandholtz: Yes. 15 16 Chair Akin: Okay. If necessary, we can – we the PTC can add a condition of approval requiring 17 that but I wanted to know whether that was something that you would find acceptable 18 regardless. All right. Any other questions of the applicant? If not, thank you very much. Thank 19 you to all the public speakers as well. We very much appreciate getting as much information 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. from everyone as we can. All right. Time to bring the discussion back to the Commission. Start 1 with Commissioner Peterson. 2 3 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. I'm gonna come back to CEQA. So very quickly, I was 4 looking at the definition of the exemption for existing facilities and when does an existing 5 facility cease to be an existing facility? I assume there's some stretch there. But unfortunately, 6 AI these days tends to hallucinate, so I need to ask quickly – so it says here it's 2,500 square feet 7 but in the packet, it says 5,000 square feet. And the project, if I understand it, is over 5,000 8 square feet. Is that correct? And I just wanna double check, what is the square footage for a 9 CEQA exemption under existing facility? 10 11 Emily Kallas: Yes. I'm – I pulled up the categorical exemption so I can look for the answer to 12 that. 13 14 Vice Chair Chang: I think Mr. Yang is also [inaudible 4:19:53]. 15 16 Albert Yang: Yeah. Yes. So it's 10,000 square feet in general. 17 18 Commissioner Peterson: The packet said five. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: It can be up to 10,000 square feet. There are a couple different categories that 1 do fall under that... 2 3 Commissioner Peterson: But if it... 4 5 Jennifer Armer: ...exception. 6 7 Commissioner Peterson: ...applied to this one, wouldn't it say 10,000 in the packet then? 8 9 Albert Yang: I'm not sure why the packet says 5,000 but if the exemption allows – if you're in an 10 area that's well served by utilities, as this is, it's – allows up to 10,000 square feet. 11 12 Commissioner Peterson: Can we pull up the CEQA exemption and actually see what it says in 13 there? Is that case law or is that actually written in the ordinance? 14 15 Albert Yang: It's written in the exemption. 16 17 Commissioner Peterson: Can we see the exemption and see what it says? 'Cause I don't wanna 18 rely – I don't – I shouldn't be sitting here googling 'cause I don't know what I'm looking... 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Male: [Inaudible 4:20:53]. 1 2 Commissioner Peterson: ...at. There we go. I see 2,500. 3 4 Albert Yang: I've highlighted the 10,000. 5 6 Commissioner Peterson: Right. But usually, the way I was taught to read this stuff is you read 7 the first one and that's usually what's [inaudible 4:21:10]. 8 9 Albert Yang: That's not correct. 10 11 Commissioner Peterson: I'll take your word on that, actually. So why is the second one – why is 12 it – why does it say 2,500 and then 10,000? 13 14 Albert Yang: There are conditions to getting to the 10,000 and basically, if you're in the area 15 that is urbanized, then you can have the 10,000. If you're not... 16 17 Commissioner Peterson: [Inaudible 4:21:30]. 18 19 Albert Yang: ...in the urbanized area, then you don't. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Peterson: Can we see it real quick again? You took it back down. Just so I can 2 read it. 3 4 Emily Kallas: Additionally, through the Chair, if I may, the 5,000 in the packet is referring to 5 when something is considered minor architectural review in our zoning code. It's not referring 6 to CEQA. 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: Oh, okay. So we're – okay. So here we – additions to the existing 9 structure is provided [inaudible 4:21:56]. Okay. Let me try to read the legalese here. A and B – 10 so if the area is not environmentally sensitive, so is this not an environmentally sensitive area? 11 12 Albert Yang: It is not. That would refer to a wetlands or something like that. 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: It is pretty close to a creek. I don't know what the distance is. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 4:22:23]. 17 18 Commissioner Peterson: What's that? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 4:22:25]. 1 2 Commissioner Peterson: Right. We're within the already-been-built exemption but there's 3 subcategories. And then the – to allow for maximum development possible in the general plan. 4 So is that in the general plan? I'm assuming that's what you're saying. 5 6 Albert Yang: Yeah. And there's sufficiently – sufficient public utilities to allow development of 7 this site, essentially. 8 9 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. Thank you. That was a discrepancy I wanted to look into. 10 Appreciate it. That's all my questions. 11 12 Chair Akin: Vice Chair Chang. 13 14 Vice Chair Chang: So I did watch the City Council meeting and also reviewed the minutes and I 15 think that's why I asked for staff to add a clarification in our addendum – packet addendum that 16 basically, the – so I wanna make clear that City Council's motion wasn't that we approve 11 to 17 13 units. It was that we review 11 to 13 units because the maker of the motion didn't 18 understand that we had already attempted to compromise. In other words, that we had 19 suggested other – I clearly remember at one of our first two meetings, possibly the first 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. meeting, that we consider a certain daylight plane and perhaps you can have these units and 1 shave off some of the si-, some of the – make it a tiny bit smaller to adhere to daylight plane. 2 And so Council didn't realize that we had already explored a whole bunch of options and so 3 they said, "Well, look at something that takes off this third story," because that seemed to be 4 something that they – they were worried about the backyard neighbors. So that's just a point of 5 clarification that it wasn't that they were expecting us to approve 11 to 13. It was just consider 6 something that might be more than seven, less than 13. "There must be a way to compromise," 7 was sort of the spirit of that motion, so I just wanted to provide that additional color. 8 9 So then on to my personal comments. I'm a little bit disappointed with the applicant because 10 they seemed a bit tone-deaf to what Council has requested. So in the pre-screening, Council 11 was very clear about being concerned about the backyard neighbors. They were very excited 12 about more senior housing. And we've also heard that the neighbors are excited about more 13 senior housing but they just don't want the impact to their light and air and their – honestly, 14 the property value for their houses. Unfortunate – and so then between the pre-screening and 15 the time that the applicant came to the PTC, they actually found additional units. If I remember 16 correctly, the pre-screening was for 14 units and so the applicant found a way to do additional 17 units that were internal or didn't face onto Wilkie. And rather than shrinking the number of 18 units that face Wilkie by the number of units that they found internally, they actually added 19 two more units that they requested. So they – the pre-screen was 14. Then the first time they 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. came to us was 16. The PTC then asked the applicant, "Okay, we're" – the PTC said, "We're very 1 concerned about these Wilkie neighbors. Consider this daylight plan or can we do fewer than 2 16 units?" 3 4 And it wasn't – I don't know if it was to Council that the applicant said that 16 – anything less 5 than 16 wasn't feasible but we were told here in the PTC that it was infeasible. And so it 6 bothers me that at the last second, not even the 11th hour but the very last second, when it 7 appeared that Council was not going to approve the project, that the applicant spoke out of 8 turn and said, "Oh, well, we could compromise potentially. We could maybe do 13." And so 9 that's – we could've saved a lot of time if we just started with that in our second meeting after 10 we had asked the applicant, "Did you reduce the number of units in any way?" So now I'm left 11 wondering what is actually financially feasible because we at the PTC have been told multiple 12 things. 13 14 Secondly, I – in the very first – inquired at the very first time that this project came to the PTC – 15 because of the public comment regarding parking, I went and did a visit myself and I noted that 16 the gates were closed, that there were employee-only signs for visitor parking that was in front 17 of the gate – the garage. And thankfully, that has been corrected now. But prior to the second 18 meeting, because the packet said that new signs have been added and you can call – visitors 19 can call the front desk and be directed to parking, I did that. I visited, called the front desk, and 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. was told that, "No, there's no" – I can't get access to the garage on – and in direct contradiction 1 to what was in the packet, "Nope. You can't access the garage." And I was told to park in 2 Goodwill. And those first two visits, I had also noted that there were construction materials in 3 parking spots and also storage of other furniture in parking spots 'cause I could see it through 4 the gate. And at the third ti-, prior to the time – the third time this came to the PTC, I again 5 visited and thankfully, this time, I was allowed to enter the garage but I counted 14 spaces 6 occupied by construction materials and furniture. 7 8 And so it bothers me that not only has this management company violated the PC for – or – and 9 whoever knows wha-, who knows what the prior management company did but for 38 years, 10 there's been no report. And then even while this project was being scrutinized before the PTC 11 and even when I asked that these issues be remedied, they were not remedied. And so I 12 understand there is a TDM now but it's hard to imagine that – I don't see the teeth in the TDM 13 that would avoid these issues and so that's something that would need to be fixed. 14 15 Regarding the TDM specifically, it really addresses only employee cars. And yet there are many 16 visitor cars and private caregiver cars. And traffic counts – it doesn't – the TDM doesn't address 17 anything about traffi-, or parking counts that are off-site. So I don't know how we would 18 monitor that. And I know that the initial PC had attempted to address some of that with the 19 annual report, which we haven't seen. So that's my first round of comments. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. And I also thank the neighborhood for again coming out 4 and providing written comments in advance here. Those are really helpful because when you 5 do that, it gives us an opportunity to digest a little bit more rather than sort of on the fly. It's a 6 lot of information that comes to us in the public comment. And I also appreciate the applicant is 7 still at it and wanting to add housing to Palo Alto and I think that's very important. 8 9 In this first round, I actually want to talk about a couple of things that I think should not be 10 controversial and these are items that I raised the last time it was here. They didn't make it into 11 the motion, which was ultimately approved– and I was a no vote on that motion, so I want to 12 try again because I don't think there was an objection last time. I just think it got lost in the 13 motion, and these address really a couple of concerns I had back then and still do. 14 15 So the first one is very simple and that is, what kind of trees are going to be planted? I read 16 before the last meeting and again before this meeting, but sometimes people will take a letter 17 and just refresh the date and resubmit it, but a concern that deciduous trees were planned. We 18 want evergreens so we get screening year-round rather than just during the leafy periods of the 19 year. I heard the applicant tonight state that they're willing to put trees that the neighbors find 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. acceptable into the landscape plan. So I want to ask staff, how do we lock that down so that 1 since the applicant is good with the kind of trees that the neighbors want, assuming the 2 neighbors all agree and they may not, how do we make that a condition that results in the 3 neighbors having the trees they want planted back there? 4 5 Emily Kallas: As you noted, different neighbors do want different things. Certain neighbors do 6 want deciduous trees and certain neighbors do want evergreen. The plans have – the landscape 7 plans have not been modified in the last rounds and no one has directly reached out to say that 8 the tree on their property line is not what they want. So the current implementation is that the 9 condition of approval to – for the building permit plans to match the planning plans and for that 10 to be what gets built covers the landscaping as well and so that would be checked both at the 11 time of the building g permit and at the time of final inspection. And so certainly if there is 12 anyone who doesn't have the right tree species, we do need to hear from them but I'm not 13 currently aware of any issues with the current landscape plan. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. So to the neighborhood, it appears that this plan is 16 going to go forward in some form. How many units remains to be seen but it's going to go 17 forward and there's going to be a landscape plan. So if you're one of the neighbors on Wilkie 18 who backs up to Palo Alto Commons, I would encourage you to look at the landscape plan and 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. if the tree behind your house is not the kind you want, communicate that to staff. We've 1 already heard from the applicant that they're flexible. So let's not have that be a problem. 2 3 The second item, which is a bigger issue, is the parking. And this relates to the TDM. I did look 4 at the TDM again. It's a revised TDM but it's a 55-page document and it's not a redline, so I 5 couldn't tell what was different but at our last meeting, Ms. Kallas and I both remarked, it's a 6 TDM but really, here it's kind of functioning as a parking management plan to some extent 7 because it's managing existing parking to respond to the neighbors' concerns. That was the 8 language and I agree that's what it should do, but when I looked at this revised TDM, I didn't 9 see how it was doing that. It references parking a bunch of times but I didn't see how it was 10 going to stop the problems that we've been hearing about. So for example, I couldn't find in the 11 revised TDM a reference to valet. And I think either it's in the TDM as an initial condition, like a 12 baseline, the requirement of valet and the hours for it because I couldn't find those anywhere. 13 And so did I miss them in the TDM or are they not there yet? 14 15 Emily Kallas: Some of those details are in a second document. There is a secondary document 16 titled "Parking Plan". It was included in the attachment that had the link to the project webpage 17 and all of those documents but it was not individually printed as an attachment to this 18 particular staff report. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. So I may have missed it because I followed that link to find the 1 revised TDM on the project page on our website but that parking plan, I don't think was an 2 attachment to that. Maybe it was something separate. So – and it – so [inaudible 4:36:29]. 3 4 Chair Akin: I couldn't find that either and I looked as well. 5 6 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. So I think there needs to be a clear condition, a 7 requirement of this project that they have a valet and establishing the hours and I leave it to 8 staff to figure out with the applicant what appropriate hours are when there's more demand. 9 Second, it concerned me last time and it continues to concern me – first of all, according to the 10 parking study, there's 98 parking spaces here and that should be more than sufficient. This is a 11 community that very few of its residents drive, right? It's employee parking, it's visitor parking, 12 it's some additional care parking but there should be enough parking spaces there, but we hear 13 historically, there weren't. It's really hard to tell if things are getting better or not. It's hard to 14 know the dates of some of the photographs that we’re seing. But there are parking spaces that 15 people can't park in because they've got furniture in them in the garage. They've got furniture 16 in them and they've got construction materials or construction trucks. And there was 17 construction material outside. And we're talking about an expansion of this facility that's going 18 to have a lot of construction. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. And so we need this TDM to have a plan that there should be 98 spaces available for staff, 1 residents, and visitors, and those who care for them because that's what this is. And so if there 2 are going to be times where those spaces aren't available, I think that this applicant needs to 3 secure off-site parking and a shuttle for its employees, so if it needs to take up 14 spaces in the 4 parking garage for construction-related materials and whatnot, fine. It can do it because it's 5 going to shuttle 14 of its employees from a remote spot to eliminate the need for those 6 employees to have those 14 spots. So that's the concept I have to make sure that the number 7 of parking spaces there are available or the equivalent of them off site. So those were the two 8 things I wanted to tackle in this round. And I’m hoping that whatever motion goes forward, 9 these will be incorporated as some form of condition of approval. 10 11 Chair Akin: Thank you. And even though we haven't had a complete round, I see no lights, so I'll 12 jump in because I have some related comments regarding the TDM. So I see the references in 13 the TDM plan to driveway tube counts for verification and that always concerns me because, of 14 course, anyone who's parking outside the site is not counted. So that affects not only our 15 assessment of how well the plan is being supported but also it affects our baseline counts from 16 which everything else flows. So whatever entity, as I asked earlier, is responsible for doing 17 verification, needs to have some process in place for at least estimating the impact on off-site 18 areas for parking. I don't think I can boil that down to a condition of approval. It's something 19 that's technically complex enough that it's – it should be part of the responsibility of the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. verification entity but that does need to be addressed. And somewhat related, we also depend 1 heavily on the annual commute survey to determine what the behavior of parking users and 2 transportation users more generally is. If that's a thing that happens during a period that's 3 known in advance, the behavior will change during that period, so that also has to be managed 4 fairly carefully and whatever entity is responsible for validating the results of that survey needs 5 to have a plan in place for dealing with that uncertainty. Okay. I think that's my set of 6 comments on the TDM. Let's see. I'm not sure which of you is first, so Vice Chair Chang and 7 then Commissioner Peterson. 8 9 Vice Chair Chang: So I was able to dig up an old appendix from one of our former packets that 10 talks about – I think it's a parking policy or something like that but unfortunately, it specifically 11 says that visitors and guests of residents – sorry. "Visitors and guests of residents are permitted 12 to use our parking facilities but private caregivers can only park at nearby public parking." And 13 so I'm concerned because there can – there needs to be a place for those folks too. If they're 14 not permitted to use the same parking, then w-, they're by definition going somewhere else, 15 which could easily be Wilkie, so I just wanted to flag that as an example of something that we 16 need to correct in the – that needs to be corrected in any parking plan. So my broad comment 17 about this is that I don't think that much has changed since the last time this project came to 18 the PTC for me. In other words, the plans themselves haven't changed, short of removing three 19 units that were on the third floor. Otherwise, I believe according to staff when I asked at pre-20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. meeting, maybe you can verify this again and say it for the entire Commission, Ms. Kallas. The 1 plans are identical other than removing the three units. Is that correct? 2 3 Emily Kallas: Yes, consistent with what the architect... 4 5 Vice Chair Chang: Yeah. 6 7 Emily Kallas: ...said [inaudible 4:43:42]. 8 9 Vice Chair Chang: Right. So since they're identical, I still can't make finding number three that 10 we have to make that the site development regulations are compatible with the comp plan and 11 compatible with existing and potential uses on adjoining sites. The reason is because the comp 12 plan specifically states that in Policy L6.8 that we're supposed to support existing regulations 13 that preserve exposure to natural light for single-family residences. And then furthermore, we – 14 our own code says that sites sharing any lot lines with one or more sites in an R-1 or any 15 residential PC district need to be subject to a maximum height established by a daylight plane 16 beginning at the height of 10 feet with a 3/6 slope. And so I don't think that changes, so I just – 17 we're required – PCs are required to do this, so I don't see how we skirt that. And this is a new 18 PC. We can't use the old PC guidelines because this is a new PC. We've been told before that 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. any amendment to a PC is effecti-, essentially has to go through the whole PC process. That's 1 why it started with a pre-screen and then came to the PTC and then had to go to Council. 2 3 So I think my logic still holds, which then leads me to say we would only – I mean, I understand 4 that the Council wanted us to review an option with a few – fewer units but I don't think that 5 they understood – at least listening to the meeting, they didn't understand all the 6 considerations that had already been taken into place, so I think I would stick with the 7 recommendation that we made in December. But I would like to add a bunch of things that 8 have to do with the parking and TDM because, to be clear, even seven units is a compromise 9 already because the residents have already expressed that today things are not working for 10 them. So they have said, "Yep, makes sense that we need senior housing, so let's do some of 11 those units." But then we still need to mitigate the existing parking issues as well as the 12 additional burden that will come from a few more units. Thank you. 13 14 Chair Akin: Commissioner Hechtman. 15 16 Commissioner Hechtman: I think Commissioner Peterson was next. 17 18 Chair Akin: Oh, I apologize. Yes, you were. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. So I agree with Vice Chair Chang. I think everything 1 was actually explained pretty well. I'm not favorable with the project but my logic is not so 2 detailed. I think for me, this project is wanting for a CEQA. And I keep seeing it and I keep 3 coming back that when we're done, we've essentially almost done a CEQA here. We've looked 4 at all the documents. We've discussed it. It's gone back and forth enough times. I think there's 5 been CEQA processes that probably took less effort than what we've just gone through. And I 6 think that's why CEQA's important, is because you get all this done ahead of time. Everything 7 comes in. We don't have to keep asking all the questions, we have to keep going back and 8 forth. At the end of the day, we're literally talking about the same mitigations. Let's throw some 9 trees in there. There's some traffic. There's some parking. There's some daylighting. It all 10 sounds like mitigations to me that would've came out through the CEQA process, probably a lot 11 cleaner and more linear and probably would've taken less time and less effort for the 12 community because now they're using this process here essentially to come out and air their 13 issues that would've been aired through a CEQA Town Hall. 14 15 So that this was given an exemption, I understand but I don't really fully follow the exemption. I 16 see the 10,000 square foot, which is a special condition over the normal 2,500 square foot but 17 the 10,000 square foot exemption only comes into effect if there's no environmental impacts. 18 But then we've just sat here and all the commissioners have talked about all the environmental 19 impacts of daylight and traffic and parking, which are pretty bread and butter of the CEQA 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. process, especially when it comes to traffic. I have seen some CEQAs be completely derailed 1 just based on traffic alone and I think one of the other mitigations here is that they should look 2 at vouchers for rideshare or something like that. There's gonna have to be something that's 3 more creative to cut down on the traffic that's coming in and out of the facility. 4 5 And then on the daylight plane, it seems pretty clear that all their construction really needs to 6 happen on the El Camino Side to keep that daylight triangle in place but the – I haven't seen 7 anything suggesting that the very large, open area at the front of the lot is used for expanded 8 underground parking. We had a proposal not that long ago where they took the parking all the 9 way to the middle of the street underground. There's not a limitation on the applicant on their 10 lot. I mean, obviously, it's a lot that's just – it's bulging at the seams to try to fit the facility that 11 they want but I think the existing facility just isn't configured to do what needs to be done there 12 but the lot size is certainly there and it's not an unsolvable problem. It just becomes more 13 expensive to be more creative at building out towards the front of the facility. 14 15 Also, I do have a concern. I haven't seen anything about fire on this facility but there's not a lot 16 of access to this building. And if there's ever a fire in it, I'm not sure what the fire plan is to 17 evacuate the residents out of the building 'cause it seems like they all have to come out 18 through the front of the building. So I have questions that I think would've been resolved, but 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that's why I agree with Vice Chair Chang. Slightly different reasons but at the end of the day, 1 probably the exact same. Thank you. 2 3 Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner Peterson. Commissioner Hechtman, back to you. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: So as I mentioned in my earlier remarks, to me, this is a housing 6 project. It may not qualify as RHNA housing but that's not the test that we have to apply here. 7 This is a place where people live. My dad lives in an assisted living facility. All right. It's where he 8 sleeps. It's where he eats. That's where his mail comes. It's the place he calls home. And he's 9 there long term. And the residents of this facility and all of our other assisted living facilities, it's 10 residential even though it doesn't meet the RHNA qualification. And we need housing of all 11 types here in Palo Alto and it includes housing for affluent people in our community with their 12 families in our community who are aging out of independent living in their homes and need a 13 place to go where their families are nearby. Because I can tell you, having just moved my dad 14 out here from Florida a year ago, it is so much better when your family is nearby. So to me, it's 15 a kind of housing and we need it. And so I think, as I did last time this project was here, that we 16 need to find a way to make at least part of it work. 17 18 And really, I guess where I come down on this is a three-person majority of the Planning 19 Commission approved a recommendation for seven units. That went to the Council and if the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that's ultimately what they wanted to do, they would've taken it and we would be done. We 1 wouldn't be here tonight. But they sent it back to us because – and the way I read that, just 2 naturally, is they thought more could occur on that site. And where I come down on this is I 3 think that I'm supportive of an 11-unit total, which would be the seven not facing Wilkie plus 4 the four second-floor units. I feel even though the third-floor units may meet the daylight plane 5 specified in the PC, and that is the law of the land as to that parcel and so I respect that and I 6 agree with staff's recommendation that it's compliant but it is a further bulk and massing and to 7 me, that's inconsistent with what we're hearing from the Council and to me, not the best 8 compromise. 9 10 And I do want to spend a second on this word compromise because in my experience, in 11 practice, a compromise is where two parties meet somewhere in the middle on an item of 12 dispute and neither party is particularly happy about that result. That's what a compromise is. 13 What this Commission did last time, to my thinking, what the majority did, was not a 14 compromise because the seven units not facing Wilkie Way are really not in dispute. There is no 15 dispute that they have no impact on the air or light or bulk or massing from Wilkie Way. So – 16 and I think perhaps this might've struck some of the Council members the same way, so what is 17 in dispute is the nine units that were facing Wilkie. And so where I come down on this and what 18 I think is a true compromise that the neighbors aren't going to love and the applicant isn't going 19 tp love is that – those four second-floor units, which comply with the law that's applicable to 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. this parcel. I would mention – and the general plan policy about protecting natural light, that's a 1 good general guide but how many – if you applied that literally, I think very little could be built 2 up in Palo Alto and so that's what the daylight plane is for generally and the specific one 3 applicable to this parcel. 4 5 On the CEQA issue, I do a fair amount of that work and our city attorney has opined and I 6 respect and agree with it but just to add a little color to it, what you're really looking at when 7 you're talking about environmental impacts, the primary ones that you see mostly are through 8 traffic and biology. And so another way to think about this is – with traffic, we're talking about 9 somewhere between 7 and 13 units where people who don't drive are going to live. So in past 10 meetings, I think we heard from the applicant that there's going to be a small increase in staff, 11 so a really nominal increase in traffic. In the scope of Palo Alto traffic, it's almost nothing, right? 12 And similarly, biology. This whole property is concreted over except for a little bit in the 13 backyard. There's no wildlife corridor here. And so I think that's the flavor behind why the State 14 identified some of these urban infill projects as, "We really don't need to spend the public time 15 and money to study it because the chances are, it's not going to have any impact." Except, as 16 Ms. Kallas mentioned, there are exceptions where if there's something unusual, like if there 17 were a spring gurgling up on this property, that's kind of unusual and there might be some 18 biology associated with that but nothing like that exists here.But one of the things that's 19 attracting you, Commissioner Peterson, to CEQA is the mitigation measures. And in the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. suggestions I've made about the TDM and plans, I'm trying to accomplish the same thing 1 through conditions of approval and so that's a good alternative, right? They're of equal weight. 2 Both work. And so that's what I'm trying to do here. 3 4 The last comment I would make is as to the two third-floor units that, again, I'm not supportive 5 of because my impression is the Council's not.I If you're inclined to take those units back to 6 Council, despite whatever recommendation – because I'm pretty sure you're not going to get a 7 recommendation supportive of those third-floor units – you should at least consider pulling 8 those third-floor units back so that they meet the 3-to-6 daylight plane. That may make them 9 small. You may actually have to reduce a unit next to them on – I think it's 13 – to make it fit 10 and it may not work at all. But at least, just to go back to Council with the same two third-floor 11 units that they have apparently already indicated some displeasure, I just don't think it's a 12 recipe for success. So if you're interested in success, you might consider something like that. 13 Those are my comments. Thank you. 14 15 Chair Akin: Thank you. Commissioner James and then Commissioner Templeton. 16 17 Commissioner James: Yes. I'd just like to make some general comments, my impressions about 18 this. I was not on the Commission when this came to us previously. I feel like whether or not 19 you see this project as compatible with adjoining sites, it is – quite literally depends on where 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. you stand. If you're standing on the El Camino Way side, this appears to be a well-maintained 1 senior living facility that offers a public good to the community. If you walk around, as I did, to 2 the other side and have the opportunity, as I did, to sort of visit one of the back yards, you 3 come away with a very, very different impression. And it's – I did that at dusk and when the 4 lights are on in The Commons, it's – you see right into the building and there's a very profound 5 presence of this rather large project in the back yards of the people who adjoin it. And it seems 6 to me that the original Palo Alto Commons, in my view, was incompatible. So would I like to see 7 13 or 16 more units? I'd rather see even more than that but I feel – I believe that this site is 8 already overbuilt and I believe it is invasive as it is today on the Wilkie Way side in the back 9 yards of those neighbors. And so I have a very hard time, as much as – I would love if the 10 owners believed it was a good business to expand this project into adjacent properties and they 11 could make a good business of that, I would readily support that but I have a hard time 12 supporting additional units built on the Wilkie Way side of this project. 13 14 Chair Akin: Commissioner Templeton, then Vice Chair Chang. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you so much. I'm really interested in Commissioner 17 Hechtman's comment, "If you're interested in success." I think that's the theme of this project. 18 And what does that mean and what are we expecting of businesses and property owners who 19 are interested in success? And we've spent hours – the community members have spent hours 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. telling us about these unforced errors, one after the other, that are not being remedied. And 1 the question is why? I mean, these are easy things to address. This is the lowest of low-hanging 2 fruit to give this project the credibility that it needs to move forward. And I'm very frustrated to 3 learn that some of these things are still going on. It is good to hear from the applicant that 4 some have been addressed but the presentation's pretty compelling. And in the opportunities 5 you've had to respond, you have not responded to things like fire safety access being blocked 6 and people not being able to park in the handicapped spaces and all these other things we've 7 heard from the community members in their presentations. 8 9 So I'm really struggling because I want and I have wanted this project to go forward. It has come 10 to us – I – what, three times at least? And every time, we've tried to make it work and we've 11 tried to make the case and we have encouraged the applicant to do better on these issues that 12 are affecting your neighbors. So it just makes the case so difficult because now we're conflating 13 all of these things, right? The need to provide more of these types of services to this community 14 with the facts that it's being – those services are being provided at a cost that exceeds the 15 agreement when the program started. So I'm trying to say that there were some boundaries 16 and they're not being respected. There's not reporting. There's not enforcement on the City's 17 side. We're just seeing so many frustrations that are happening and it's hard to reconcile that 18 because the fact is, we do want to expand these services but we don't want to do it at a w-, a 19 cost of enjoyment of one's property, sunlight, the quiet in the back yard where one lives. Last 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. night in my home, across on the other side of El Camino in Barron Park, I had the back door 1 open and listening to the crickets and frogs... 2 3 Male: Hm. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: ...and I could hear them and enjoy them. And I'm not sure, based on 6 what I'm hearing as personal firsthand reports but also standing in some of those back yards 7 years ago, I'm not sure that people in this community are getting that experience. To what 8 extent are they owed that experience, we don't know, right? Some people are saying, "Well, 9 they already bought the house. They knew that was there when they bought it." So how do we 10 move forward? And I understand that is the practical question in front of us. 11 12 There's another question that we haven't heard from staff and I just want to, for a minute, 13 indulge in this exploration. I know it's not your project but I'm talking about it because it is a 14 City project. There is a project to change the entire nature of the intersection of Meadow and 15 the railroad. It will change that whole stretch from Wilkie Way down to Alma in ways that are – 16 unless you're exploring those diagrams intimately – in ways that are hard to imagine. They will 17 remove some of the driveways. They will possibly interfere with people being able to get into 18 those homes. They may – they're trying to determine whether it will cause takings. We don't 19 know. But that whole block is looking at a massive transformation. And now we're talking about 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. what are we doing in this moment with the relationship between Wilkie Way and The 1 Commons whereas within 10 years, we're gonna be talking about something far more 2 disruptive. And so if I'm looking at the future, if we're thinking Mr. Reller is a visionary and he 3 wants to expand this property and maybe sometime in the future when those property – when 4 this property has been updated, maybe some changes will be happening in that part of the 5 neighborhood. Who knows? I don't know. I don't see the future. 6 7 But let's imagine there's some vision going on where someday, this would be acceptable. How 8 do we get there? What are we examining from our purview, right? How is this area going to 9 change and how would it fit in there? And so I'm thinking things like if we lose half of the 10 houses that we're talking about tonight, is this still a problem? Personally, I think losing those 11 houses is a problem, so I'm not trying to say it's not. I've argued against this many times. But 12 that's not the direction the City's going. So if that's the case, what does that mean? And the 13 conclusion I come to is, while the residents own these properties, adjacent properties and 14 property owners should do a better job of interacting with them. And if they don't wanna do 15 that, there are ways around changing ownership. If that's the problem – the problem is the 16 neighbors, who are enjoying where they live, who grew up here, who like living there, who love 17 their community, who've just met each other and bonded over this experience, right, if they 18 wanna stay and the property owners adjacent to them want to expand, we have to find a way. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. We can't keep butting heads. So what do we do? We have to be better neighbors. And this is – 1 every single time this is coming to this Commission, that is what we say. We encourage this. We 2 ask this. And every single time, we're hearing, "Of course. We've done all that." But that's not 3 what the neighbors are experiencing, so how do we reconcile that? If we pull if apart and say, 4 "The building is the building and all these other things that we have added on to the zoning to 5 make sure that the building's expansion is not affecting the neighbors, if none of that matters, 6 then we can't approve – then we can't recommend these expansions because none of the stuff 7 that we're trying to put in place is being enforced. So that's a question to staff. To what extent 8 do we take that stuff seriously? If we're putting these mitigations and it's not – no one's being 9 held to these mitigations, then what are we to do with that? How do we operate if we 10 recommend, "Well, yeah. You could do this if you do that," but then nobody's making sure that 11 the second part is happening? What is – what do we – what can we have faith in that it's gonna 12 happen? 13 14 Jennifer Armer: I think the only response I can provide to that at this point is similar to what 15 we've discussed earlier, is that that is something that we are working on improving from past 16 practice. 17 18 Commissioner Templeton: Is there a mechanism right now with the City in which violations can 19 be enforced of current agreements? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Jennifer Armer: Yes. It could be done through code enforcement... 2 3 Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 5:10:39].] 4 5 Jennifer Armer: ...or other techniques. Yes. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: And can we... 8 9 Jennifer Armer: So there is limited capacity. 10 11 Commissioner Templeton: Has – have those been reported and just not handled, then? Is that 12 what you're saying, that the capacity issue is on our side? 13 14 Jennifer Armer: So we don't have any open code cases on this particular project at this time. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: That surprises me given the complaints, so I will then turn it back 17 onto the community members to suggest, file the complaints. Call code enforcement and get it 18 documented 'cause this is just gonna keep going around and around until we are able to have 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. some data to look at other than he-said-she-said. That is my comment at this point. Thank you 1 very much. 2 3 Chair Akin: Thank you, Commissioner Templeton. Vice Chair Chang. 4 5 Vice Chair Chang: Oh, I just wanted to address something that Commissioner Hechtman said 6 about a compromise being something that both parties are not happy with. And I remember 7 that when this project first came before us, the neighbors said, "Don't approve the project at all 8 because of this – because of the parking. Because of the parking. I mean, there's a light and air 9 issue but also, don't approve it at all." And I saw the neighbors move and now we see tonight 10 that the neighbors have said, "Okay. We concede that the cost of – that we bear with the 11 parking problems and that we have been bearing with the parking problems is worth an 12 additional seven units but not these other ones because that detracts from our property value 13 in a very material way." And I think it was documented, in at least 2011 dollars, in one of the 14 public comments, that the appraiser came to the neighbor's house and said, "Oh," and reduced 15 the value of their property by $50,000 because they saw the neighboring – and that was 2011 16 dollars. 17 18 So – but yet, from the applicant's side, we didn't see any movement until the last second, even 19 though we had asked, "Can we – hey, if this is the right daylight plane, can you shave a little bit 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. off of this corner? Can you shave a little bit off of this corner?" And the answer was, "No." So I 1 think that the seven units is a compromise already because I've seen the movement, so that's – 2 I mean, we can debate forever as to whether they're happy or not and whether who – but I just 3 wanted to point out that I did see the movement from the neighbors and I really appreciate – I 4 mean, this is costly, coming to four different PTC meetings and two different Council meetings 5 and there's at least one more Council meeting and we had, what, 20 public commenters? But 6 then several of them represented five, so 30 people coming for three to four hours each time? 7 That's many, many, many hours. I think if you count just one person, they've spent more than 8 half a work week on that and that's just in these meetings, not all the research that they've 9 done. So thank you for your public comments. Thank you for sticking with us, applicant. And 10 that's all I wanted to say. 11 12 Chair Akin: All right. I'll add to this round, since we are gradually running out of new things to 13 say. I also cannot make PC Finding Number 3 because I believe the site development 14 regulations within the district are not compatible with the existing uses on adjoining sites. Now 15 you can certainly argue about whether this has been true for a much longer period of time but I 16 think I have to argue that it's certainly true now and my reasoning there is that we use the 17 current code as our objective standards for deciding whether expansion projects are 18 compatible. We don't go back to a code that existed 40 years ago. Now, as has been explained, 19 we are free to set whatever development standards for the PC that we wish but that doesn't 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. mean that that changes the basis for our analysis of the situation. That just means we have the 1 freedom to modify it after our analysis is done. Using that as a basis, then the proposed unit – 2 all the proposed units on the Wilkie Way side, according to the packet supplement, violate the 3 plain language of the code, 18.38.150(e) and 18.12.040. 4 5 So the going in position is that for the objective basis that we have today, yes, the proposed 6 project is incompatible with the adjoining uses. [Inaudible 5:16:36] we have a request to pull up 7 the code language, which I believe you had in one of the presentation slides. And my analysis of 8 the code is slightly different from the one that I've seen in some of the other presentations 9 because the – it hinges on the assumption of whether this is residential or non-residential but, 10 in the end, that difference doesn't matter. No matter which set of daylight plane and setback 11 requirements you choose, the proposed project doesn't fit. So where does that leave us as a 12 basis for a compromise? Well, I will repeat what I heard from Council, which is I really, really 13 wish that there would be a lot of attention paid to purchasing the Goodwill site and building 14 there. And the reason for that is that buys you physically separate buildings for memory care 15 and assisted living, if you wanted. It gives you significantly more space, significantly less impact 16 on the Wilkie Way neighbors, and you have the potential to solve all the parking problems. So if 17 you're looking for a longer-term solution, please push that as far as it seems possible to push. 18 That's a superior solution in every respect that I can see. So that's everything I have to say for 19 this round. Commissioner Templeton. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. I would say both of us have talked about kinds of options 2 that are outside of the scope, right? We can't recommend people to buy things but we could 3 say buying things is another alternative for how to get things done. And that is an important 4 distinction but it's also really important to encourage the applicant to defang this argument by 5 doing the things that you have already agreed to do with the City. And this is – it's always gonna 6 cause the conflation. It's always gonna cause the problems and distract from the argument that 7 the applicant is try – is making because it undermines credibility required for us to make the 8 findings. We have to believe you're gonna do the things you say you're gonna do. And right 9 now, there's not a basis for that. There's not a basis to believe that the agreements we would 10 enter in would be honored. That is what you're hearing from the community. You're hearing 11 frustration and reluctance to go into another agreement. And I realize that is not your 12 intention. I realize that your intention is to run these services and do a good job and provide 13 places for people to get the care that they need. And you are interfering with your own success. 14 15 So please, I hope you can take the feedback that you're getting from this Commission tonight as 16 well-intentioned and supportive because if – seriously, I mean, I don't know how many times 17 we can encourage you to do these things that are required and it not happen. You can't be 18 surprised that we are struggling to grant the request, right? To put it in that – those terms. I'm 19 sure that's not the right terms but to make the recommendations that you're asking of us 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. requires good faith. So some of the changes, if you're struggling with them, let's figure out why. 1 Let's work with staff. Let's figure out from the community, right? Is this not something that 2 needs a parking permit? Take a good look internally to figure out why aren't you complying 3 with the TDM? Why are you encouraging your own staff to park in front of your angry 4 neighbors to exacerbate the frustration that's preventing your from expanding? It's in your 5 power and I understand. I'm reading your faces and facial reactions. You're frustrated. But 6 we're not hearing any other explanation. You have the parking. You're telling us, "We have the 7 parking. We should be able to expand." And yet, you're not using it? You're not protecting your 8 neighbors from having your staff park on their space – or not even their space, City space – 9 when you have your own parking? Why? You – something silly like this interfering with your 10 plans to expand. And you may be looking at us and asking us why are we fixating on this but the 11 question is really, why are you not? Thank you. 12 13 Chair Akin: Commissioner Peterson, then Vice Chair Chang, then Commissioner Hechtman. 14 15 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. So I guess I'll put some closing comments on my 16 CEQA thread. I think it was eight years ago, CEQA was essentially environmental. It was trees 17 and birds and some waterways. Somewhere in there, CEQA expanded to include non-18 environmental and now you can have CEQA triggered by no environmental, entirely non what 19 we think about the environment, green environment but entirely by traffic and impacts on the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. community, which is changing, I think, the way that the process works because a lot of people 1 still aren't thinking that. "What is a community impact?" So I think that's why this is a good test 2 case 'cause I think this would've been the smallest CEQA ever, like we can see. We're doing just 3 fine without it. We don't need a CEQA. But I think it would've streamlined everything and I 4 don't think it would've added any cost significantly on top of everything. And I think we 5 would've had what we needed to make the decision if we had everything in a full document 6 and we're not digging around and kicking over stones ourselves trying to find stuff, that it's 7 already laid out for us beforehand. 8 9 And I'm a big fan of CEQA 'cause I think it also protects the applicant because you can put these 10 things out ahead of time and you have some control 'cause you're paying for the studies and 11 everything else ahead of time and it gives you a chance to work with the community because 12 that's the whole process. I don't know how CEQA actually works in a city like this because I 13 don't know if we would be called in as part of that process or it happens completely away from 14 the Commission and then comes to the Commission via the town halls or whatever is held for 15 the community input. But I would encourage staff to look forward, as we have more 16 complicated projects like this, which are simple on the surface but very quickly turn into a little 17 bit of spaghetti and maybe offer the CEQA process or push applicants maybe on their own 18 choice to pick a CEQA process versus trying to avoid it. I don't see it as a process to avoid. I 19 think it's a process to use. Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Akin: Vice Chair Chang. 2 3 Vice Chair Chang: I was gonna make a motion but I think Commissioner Hechtman may have 4 something to say, so I'll let him go ahead. 5 6 Chair Akin: All right. Commissioner Hechtman. 7 8 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. Thank you. I think this will work well because I'm anticipating 9 what your motion will be and so might as well just make this point in advance of that. And 10 that's really to respond to both the Chair and Vice Chair in their sort of looking at the findings 11 and deciding whether or not they can make them. And just wanting to point out that the three 12 findings we have are on packet page 29. Of course, staff has found in their staff report that you 13 can make them all. And part of the reason is because these findings were created to approve a 14 new PC development, right? You've got a vacant piece of land and the beauty of the PC is you 15 don't have to follow the rules that apply to the base district or next door. You get to make your 16 own rules up and that's what happened back in 1987 with this property. And so with Finding 3, 17 this ship has already sailed 40 years ago, so it's asking you to look at, are the uses permitted 18 compatible? That's the first thing. Well, it was already decided that having an assisted living 19 facility was compatible with these Wilkie Way neighbors as well as Goodwill on the other side 20 and the restaurant in front of it. 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 And then when you look at the site development regulations applicable within the district, 2 which means on the PC, are they consistent with the comp plan and with the existing and 3 potential uses? Well, again, that was answered 40 years ago with an envelope – a building 4 envelope that included setbacks and a daylight plane that defined where you could and 5 couldn't build. And so I really think that the comments that I've heard from the Chair and the 6 Vice Chair really resonate more with ARB Finding Number 1, which appears on the next page. 7 "The design is consistent with applicable provisions of the comp plan, zoning code, area plan, 8 and relevant design guidelines." When I hear you, that's what I feel like you're speaking to. So 9 here, it may be a distinction without a difference but what's within our purview, I felt they 10 complied with it with the 16 and so with the 13, even though I wasn't supportive of any of the 11 third-floor units this time around. So with that, I will gracefully listen to your motion and will 12 have, I anticipate, very short comments, if any, on my no vote. 13 14 Chair Akin: Just a second. I see a light from Commissioner Templeton. Do you need to speak 15 before a motion is made? 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Yes. I was just gonna say I'm – that is the essence of my struggle – 18 what Commissioner Hechtman said – is that the problems that are being brought up by the 19 community are not PTC problems but they are Council problems and so whatever we do send 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. to Council would need to include that. Even if we were to find that they ha-, met these findings 1 – and I hear that maybe we're not gonna – but even if we do, that's not the point. The point is 2 the compatibility point and the good neighbor point and the mitigations point and enforcement 3 point, right? So it's a very frustrating space to sit in right now because we recognize the larger 4 picture but I think we – I hear Commissioner Hechtman saying we kinda have to stay in our 5 lane, so I hope that the motion you make stays in our lane but also addresses the rest of the 6 situation. Thank you. 7 8 Vice Chair Chang: Well, hopefully you can help me edit if it doesn't. All right. So Council's 9 motion to us was to review an 11 to 13-unit proposal, which we have done. And I've come to 10 the same conclusion after that review as I did the last time. So I would like to move the staff 11 recommendation with the following modifications. To allow the addition of only seven units – 12 and specifically those units would be 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 10, and 11 – rather than the 13 and not the 13 two ground-floor office spaces facing the Wilkie Way back yards. Second, to require annual 14 monitoring of conditions and public benefits, specifically including section 3(d) of the original 15 PC ordinance, 3775. So that's on packet page 65 to 66. But for the rest of the Commission, that 16 is an annual report that includes occupancy, vacancy status, number and age of occupants, 17 number of employees, number of residents and employees who use parking spaces, and a copy 18 of renewal license for residential care facilities. So if it was in the original PC, I think it makes 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. sense for it to continue and I think the specificity is helpful, as that wasn't included in the 1 current iteration. 2 3 Also, this incorporates the point that Commissioner Hechtman asked for in the last PTC 4 meeting, which is to strike the language in Section 3, Finding Number 2, which is on packet page 5 29, that refers to the old benefits from the original PC because those benefits are not part of 6 the new PC. It's an existing – that – whatever benefits have happened have already happened, 7 so those would be the second and third benefits. And there's already some typos in that 'cause 8 Benefit Number 2 isn't actually numbered but delete the second benefit, which is roadway, 9 pedestrian, and bus stop improvements 'cause there will be none of those in the current 10 project. And three, a contribution of I think it's $100,000 to Avenidas. It's not a million to 11 Avenidas. So we would strike those two because they're not really relevant anymore. Fourth, 12 that the condition of approval that staff must park either on site or off site and then come in by 13 shuttle. And then finally, that there is a revised TDM that includes a parking plan as an 14 appendix. That might also include specific mitigations like a valet with operating hours as well 15 as a plan for providing 98 spaces of parking at all times, either on site or off site. So that would 16 be my motion. 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Akin: I'll second provided the other comments that I made earlier about the TDM are just 1 captured for forwarding to Council. Good. so I don't think that needs to be part of the motion. 2 Commissioner Templeton. 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. I like what you have outlined so far. My question is, or 5 what? Right? We've asked them to promise these things. We've asked them before. What's the 6 "or what"? 7 8 Vice Chair Chang: I don't know how to do the teeth in a TDM because I haven't quite seen that 9 and so that's why I want a revised TDM that maybe has some teeth but I don't know how to 10 propose that, so maybe I could've modified, "with a revised TDM and parking plan that includes 11 consequences." 12 13 Jennifer Armer: Consequences for noncompliance? 14 15 Vice Chair Chang: Correct. Consequences for noncompliance. 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: That we believe will be sufficient to encourage compliance. And I – 18 we – I – this is not a usual conversation that we have and it's a tough one because of our 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. relationship with The Commons and how beloved this project is and how we need to restore 1 good faith in the community for this project. 2 3 Jennifer Armer: If I may clarify one point, you spoke about – that all staff must park on site or, I 4 think you were saying, at an alternative off-site location and come in by shuttle. Is that... 5 6 Vice Chair Chang: Right. Because... 7 8 Jennifer Armer: If... 9 10 Vice Chair Chang: ...I think... 11 12 Jennifer Armer: ...some of the spaces weren't available during construction? 13 14 Vice Chair Chang: Or for other... 15 16 Jennifer Armer: Or for other... 17 18 Vice Chair Chang: ...reasons. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: ...reasons. 1 2 Vice Chair Chang: The reason I s-, I mean, the alternative would've been to list all the streets in 3 the area but the idea is that this – they really are supposed to provide adequate parking for 4 their own staff. That's what – how our parking numbers are determined. And so if they can't 5 park them on site, if they need those spaces for something else, then... 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: You're... 8 9 Jennifer Armer: Arranging an off-site location. 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: Right. They shouldn't be [inaudible 5:35:58]. 12 13 Jennifer Armer: Not on a public street. 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: Private parking. [Inaudible 5:35:59]. 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: Private parking. They shouldn't be using public parking. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: We have to be specific because without having been specific, a lot of 1 the public parking spaces are being consumed by this business and not by residents, so... 2 3 Vice Chair Chang: So maybe that's a good amendment or qualification, which is staff must park 4 on site or on off-site, private parking. 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: Or we could specify paid. If they wanted to pay the City for parking, 7 probably at a parking garage or something, that could be acceptable as well. So I don't know 8 that we need to specify private. 9 10 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: We could say paid. 13 14 Vice Chair Chang: Paid parking. Yes. That [inaudible 5:36:41] good. And we've made some 15 changes to the motion, so does the seconder agree to those? 16 17 Commissioner Peterson: Can I make a friendly amendment... 18 19 Chair Akin: [Inaudible 5:36:48]. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Peterson: ...on that first? Or addition? 2 3 Chair Akin: Let me cover this part first... 4 5 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 6 7 Chair Akin: ...and then I just wanted to make sure I understood all of the changes that have 8 been made. 9 10 Jennifer Armer: You'd like me to state the changes as we understand them? 11 12 Chair Akin: Yes. 13 14 Jennifer Armer: Okay. 15 16 Chair Akin: Perhaps that's good for all of us. 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: The changes that I understand, based on the question that I just posed, was 1 that the staff must park either on site or off site at a private or paid parking location and come 2 in by shuttle. Was there another change? I think that was the one change that we just... 3 4 Emily Kallas: [Inaudible 5:37:28]. 5 6 Jennifer Armer: Oh. And the TDM – go ahead. 7 8 Chair Akin: Oh, TDM enforcement. 9 10 Emily Kallas: Right. Revise the TDM to include consequences for noncompliance. 11 12 Chair Akin: And I support both of those changes as seconder. Commissioner Peterson. 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: This is relating to Vice Chair Chang's language there. Can you consider 15 adding a waiver for vouchers for rideshare? Because that's in lieu of a parking space and it 16 encourages the use of public transportation or rideshare, something like that. 17 18 Chair Akin: I believe that's already in the TDM. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: Is it in there? 1 2 Chair Akin: And it's... 3 4 Vice Chair Chang: And also, if they're using rideshare, if they're still staff, I would hope that they 5 still park in – on site or... 6 7 Commissioner Peterson: Well, there'd be no parking. They'd just be dropped off. 8 9 Vice Chair Chang: Well, that's fine. Then there's no need for parking 'cause this wasn't saying 10 that all staff must park. 11 12 Commissioner Peterson: Well, I'm saying – but if – rather than the number of parking spaces, if 13 they can show they're pay – they're giving out vouchers to their staff that's coming in and 14 paying for their rideshare, then that's in lieu of a – having a parking space. 15 16 Vice Chair Chang: So as I understand it, with respect to those 98 parking spaces, they're 17 required to provide. I mean, when – it – that's what a TDM does, is it accounts for how much of 18 a parking reduction is made by each component of the TDM and that's in the TDM already. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: Okay. 1 2 Chair Akin: And by the way, I think it's a pretty good program too. I think that part is well 3 designed. All right. Any further suggestions for change? If not – or discussion. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: I have a question. Why are – you removed the offices. I thought you 6 were for them last time. Can you just tell me what... 7 8 Vice Chair Chang: No. I wasn't for the offices last time. I mean, we're trying to create senior 9 housing here and that doesn't add to the housing. It does add to the burden on the neighbors 10 because, as one of the public commenters mentioned, the standard setback would've been 20 11 feet but they agreed to do 10 and these offices would be in the 20. It doesn't worsen the 10 12 but... 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: It's worth getting that written down, so thanks for explaining. 15 16 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. 17 18 Chair Akin: All right. Going once, going twice. I think we're ready for a vote. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Samuel Tavera: All right. Commissioner Peterson? 1 2 Samuel Tavera: Aye. 3 4 Samuel Tavera: Commissioner James? 5 6 Commissioner James: Yes. 7 8 Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Templeton? 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 11 12 Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Hechtman? 13 14 Commissioner Hechtman: No. 15 16 Samuel Tavera: Commissioner Chang? 17 18 Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Samuel Tavera: Chair Akin? 1 2 Chair Akin: Yes. 3 4 Samuel Tavera: And... 5 6 Jennifer Armer: The vote [inaudible 5:40:33]... 7 8 Samuel Tavera: ...yeah. 9 10 Jennifer Armer: ...5-1. It passes with Commissioner Hechtman voting no. 11 12 Samuel Tavera: Yep. 5-1-1. Commissioner Ji... 13 14 Jennifer Armer: Oh. 15 16 Samuel Tavera: ...recused. Yeah. 17 18 Jennifer Armer: Yeah. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Samuel Tavera: Mm-hm. 1 2 Chair Akin: Very good. Thank you, everyone. That was challenging but I think carefully and 3 thoughtfully done. Oh, would you like to speak to your no vote? 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. Thank you. Just very briefly, I think I explained my reasoning 6 during the hearing but I did wanto to just acknowledge that it's not every time that the maker 7 of the motion will adopt into the motion ideas from a member of this Commission whom they 8 know is not going to support the motion. So that happened here tonight and I appreciate the 9 Vice Chair doing that. I think that those TDM additionsmakes a better project, but I wanted to 10 acknowledge that it didn't have to be done that way and I appreciate it. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: It was also nice that you mentioned you weren't going to support 13 the motion when you made those recommendations, so I think that clarity is very nice. 14 15 Chair Akin: All right. I think that item is now concluded. 16 17 Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 18 Members of the public may not speak to the item(s). 19 20 Chair Akin: Since we have no minutes to approve this time, we're on to Commissioner 21 questions, comments, and announcements. Anyone? 22 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: Sure. I'll go. 2 3 Chair Akin: Commissioner – oh. Commissioner Hechtman's light came on, so I'll set you up next. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: Just wanted to let the Commission and public know that last week, 6 the Chair and I had an informal meeting with some members of our planning staff. They wanted 7 to talk to us about sort of where they were moving forward with the Downtown Housing Plan 8 and just solicit some informal feedback on what we thought of their approaches, what kind of 9 different ideas might we have. Lasted about 45, 50 minutes. And I don't know if the Chair has 10 more to add to color but that's about it. 11 12 Chair Akin: Yeah. I can add a sentence or two. Just – it's a challenging process, dealing with 13 economic feasibility questions and possible effects of SB 79, so it has some influence on how 14 the Downtown Housing Plan will proceed. So there was a good brainstorming session to cover 15 some of those issues. All right. That's all from me. Commissioner Templeton? 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Just public service announcement. Ballots will be arriving in people's 18 mailboxes around about October 6th, so that's before our next meeting. Keep an eye out and if 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. you don't want people calling and bothering you to vote, turn that sucker in because the 1 County will tell the people not to call anymore once your ballot's submitted. 2 3 Chair Akin: Thank you. Good advice. Commissioner Ji. 4 5 Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. I got a chance as a part of the San Antonio Coordinator – oh, 6 I always forget – the CAG to do a walk-through of the site. To be honest, it was pretty scary as a 7 pedestrian. I encourage folks who don't normally walk through San Antonio to do so if they get 8 a chance. It's – we as a large group almost got hit multiple times, so wanna comment that. And 9 also one thing to think about as we think about transportation issues along San Antonio is that 10 the Mountain View side of the San Antonio Road is full of utility boxes, so that's one thing I 11 noticed. So it's very difficult to do any transportation, even if there's a special setback on that 12 side. So it's something to think about regarding that. And at some point unknown, they – Sylvia 13 Star-Lack from Transportation has more information but they plan on potentially closing down 14 the 101 southbound entrance by Costco on Rengstorff, so... 15 16 Male: [Inaudible 5:45:04]. 17 18 Commissioner Ji: ...at – yeah. So Just – I don't know exactly the timeline. Reach out to Sylvia 19 specifically on that. But she mentioned on our walk that may include making changes to the San 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Antonio side, which is currently only a northbound 101 entrance over there, changes to come 1 around 101 that may impact this project as we continue to see it. So – and also for us South 2 Palo Altons that use San Antonio pretty frequently are probably thinking a lot about the 3 transportation over there. 4 5 Chair Akin: Thank you. That was very useful. All right. Any others? Then we are... 6 7 Adjournment 8 11:29 pm 9 10 /es 11