HomeMy WebLinkAboutStaff Report 7230City of Palo Alto (ID # 7230)
City Council Staff Report
Report Type: Study Session Meeting Date: 11/21/2016
City of Palo Alto Page 1
Summary Title: Citywide Engineering and Traffic Speed Surveys
Title: Study Session to Present the Findings of the Citywide Engineering and
Traffic Speed Surveys and Discuss Alternatives to the Establishment of Speed
Limits and Requirements for Enforcement
From: City Manager
Lead Department: Planning and Community Environment
Recommendation
This is a study session and no formal action is recommended. City Council may discuss and
provide comments.
Report Summary
The purpose of this study session is to familiarize the Council with the Engineering and Traffic
Surveys. Speed limits in California are governed by the California Vehicle Code (CVC) section
627, 22348 through 22413 and 40802. In conformance with state law, vehicle speed laws can
only be enforced using radar when speed limits are determined by an Engineering and Traffic
Survey. An Engineering and Traffic Survey is an engineering analysis of the prevailing speeds
and a review of the traffic conditions of the roadway. Engineering and Traffic Surveys for many
Palo Alto streets are currently expired and, hence, the Police Department is unable to enforce
the speed limits using radar.
The updated Engineering and Traffic Surveys are intended to serve as the basis for the
establishment and enforcement of speed limits for certain street segments within the City of
Palo Alto. Staff is proposing to gather community input on alternatives to raising speed limits
where dictated by the results of the surveys, and will return to the City Council for action in
mid-2017.
Background
Speed zones are primarily established to protect the public from the unreasonable behavior of
reckless, unreliable, or otherwise dangerous drivers. Speed limits are generally established at or
near the 85th percentile speed, which is defined as the speed at or below which 85 percent of
traffic is moving. Speed limits established on this basis conform to the consensus of those who
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City of Palo Alto Page 2
drive on the roadways as to what speed is reasonable and safe, and are not dependent on the
judgment of one or a few individuals. An Engineering and Traffic Survey, as defined in Section
627 of the CVC, must consider the prevailing speeds, collision records, pedestrian and bicyclist
safety, and roadway traffic and roadside conditions. Speed zones are also established to advise
motorists of road conditions or hazards, which may not be readily apparent to a reasonable
driver. For this reason, a field review of related road and traffic variables is conducted which is
considered in combination with the statistical data and collision history of a particular roadway
segment to determine a safe and reasonable speed limit.
As per California Vehicle Code 40802, the speed limit of 25 miles per hour (mph) has been
established on designated local streets in Palo Alto that are less than 40 feet in width. In 2014,
speed surveys were conducted for 34 residential arterial and collector street segments within
the City. The results of that study indicated a recommendation to increase speed limits along 18
street segments and validated 16 remaining street segments. These results were not brought
forward for review in 2014, and new surveys are currently underway. In the future, staff
intends to establish a consolidated and reoccurring Engineering and Speed Survey cycle for all
street segments every 5 to 7 years as required.
The objective of the ongoing surveys is to analyze all arterial and collector streets (70 street
segments) in Palo Alto’s Street Network system and to recommend appropriate speed limits for
each of these street segments consistent with the laws and practices of the State of California.
In addition, as a part of this project, an aspirational target speed will be identified if the survey
recommends increasing the speed limit along a particular roadway segment. The target speed is
not based on operating or prevailing speeds but considered factors such as residential density,
bicycle safety, roadside conditions, adjacent land use, and potential conflicts with pedestrians,
bicyclists, and residential or business districts. Staff intends to use the target speed to
determine various physical characteristics, geometric design features and implement traffic
calming measures for streets within Palo Alto in the future. When identifying recommended
speed limits, staff also considered the findings of the study completed in 2012, per California
Assembly Bill (AB) 321, to reduce the speed limit to 15 or 20 mph within 500 feet of the school
grounds, under certain conditions.
This report presents the results of the analysis performed in preparing Engineering and Traffic
Surveys for the City of Palo Alto for 70 street segments (Attachment A). These surveys were
authorized by the City and conducted by the consulting firm Stantec. These surveys were
performed in accordance with the requirements of the California Vehicle Code and the
California Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices (CA-MUTCD). The link below provides the
2014 California Manual for Setting Speed Limits published by Caltrans.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/engineering/mutcd/pdf/california-manual-for-setting-
speed-limits.pdf
A study session was held on November 9, 2016 with the Planning and Transportation
Commission. The minutes from that meeting can be found as Attachment B in this report.
City of Palo Alto Page 3
Discussion
This report and the procedures used to formulate its recommendations fully meet the
requirements of the California Vehicle Code and the California Manual of Uniform Traffic
Control Devices (CA-MUTCD) and will allow the Police Department to enforce speed limits with
the use of radar if speed limits are adjusted as recommended. However, some of the surveys
recommend specific modifications to speed limits, which may not be desired by the community.
Conducting Radar Surveys
Speed data was collected using manual radar surveys and were performed by a sub-consultant
to Stantec, National Data and Surveying Services (NDS), at 70 locations during off-peak hours on
a weekday (Monday through Friday). NDS also collected the average daily traffic (ADT) data for
the 70 project locations during a weekday (Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday). The radar
surveys and ADT counts were collected in September 2016.
Radar surveys were conducted on street sections where the traffic speeds, the traffic volumes,
the street width or other significant factors were different from an adjacent section. Thus a
residential arterial such as Middlefield Road required speed surveys at several locations to
account for changes in these factors. Each of the radar speed survey have a minimum sample
size of 100 vehicles and was conducted by a person whose presence was unknown and did not
affect the speed of the traffic being surveyed.
Analysis of Data
Observed conditions include the direction of travel and number of vehicles surveyed, the date
and day of the week, the time period during which the survey was conducted and the existing
posted speed limit.
Calculated values include the 85th percentile speed, the 10-mph pace speed, the percent of
vehicles observed within the 10-mph pace speed, the range of speeds observed and the total
number of vehicles observed. An explanation of these terms is as follows:
The 85th Percentile or Critical Speed is that speed at or below which 85 percent of the
observed vehicles are travelling. It is generally well recognized fact that at least 85
percent of the drivers operate at speeds which are reasonable and prudent for the
conditions of each roadway. Therefore, this factor is the primary guide in determining
what speeds the majority of safe and reasonable drivers are traveling.
Hence, the practice is to set the speed limit to the nearest five-mile-per-hour increment
from the critical speed unless other factors require a lower limit. Speed limits set on this
basis provide law enforcement officials with a means of controlling reckless or
unreliable drivers who will not conform to what the majority finds reasonable.
City of Palo Alto Page 4
The 10-mph Pace is the 10-mile-per-hour increment range, which contains the largest
number of recorded vehicles. The pace is a measure of the dispersion of speeds within
the sample surveyed. Speed limits should normally be set to fall within the 10-mph
Pace. However, conditions not readily apparent to the driver or adhering to state-
mandated limits such as in residential districts may require setting speed limits below
the 10-mph pace.
The Percent of Vehicles in Pace Speed is an indication of the grouping of vehicular
speeds. Ideally, if all vehicles were traveling at or about the same speed, there would be
a reduced likelihood of vehicular collisions. In speed limit analysis, the higher the
percent of vehicles within the pace speed, the more favorable the speed distribution.
The percent of vehicles within the 10-mph Pace is often between 60 and 90 percent.
Collision History
The Engineering and Traffic Survey forms summarize the recent collision information for each
of the street segments. The collision information was obtained from the California Statewide
Integrated Traffic Records System (SWITRS) from January 2011 to December 2015. The
collisions were reviewed and summarized for each segment. Based upon the number of total
collisions studied over the five-year period and ADT counts, a collision rate per million vehicle
miles was calculated for each segment. To provide a general comparison of the collision rates
on the segments to expected collisions rates for similar types of local roadways, the collision
rates for each segment were compared to the statewide average rate listed in the 2012
collision data on California State Highways (road miles, travel, collisions, collision rates) as listed
in Table 1.
Table 1: 2012 California State Highways Collision Rates
Lane Type Total Collision Rate Per Million Vehicle Miles
(3-year rate for 2010, 2011 and 2012)
Two and three Lanes 1.22
Four Lanes (undivided highway) 1.70
Four Lanes (divided highway) 1.42
Source: Collision Data on California State Highways Report published by State
of California in 2015
Results and Recommendations
State regulations prescribe that a speed limit shall be established at the nearest five-mile-per-
hour increment to the critical 85th percentile speed. The speed limit may be reduced by five
miles per hour from this nearest five-mile-per-hour increment, based upon factors such as
collision experience or other factors not apparent to the driver. For cases in which the nearest
City of Palo Alto Page 5
five-mile-per-hour increment of the 85th percentile speed would require a rounding up, then
the speed limit may be rounded down to the nearest five-mile-per-hour increment below the
85th percentile speed, but no further reduction is allowed.
Attachment A presents the results of evaluation of the available data and indicates a
recommended speed limit for each of the 70 street segments surveyed. This survey validates
the existing speed limit for 56 locations and recommends an increase in existing speed limit for
14 locations.
City staff is interested in the Council’s perspective on these results, and – in the case of the 14
locations identified -- where setting more aspirational target speeds and pursuing associated
physical improvements (Traffic calming measures) may be a desirable alternative to raising
speed limits.
Policy Implications
The following Goals and Policies from the Comprehensive Plan are directly related to this
discussion:
Goal T-4: An Efficient Roadway Network for All Users
Goal T-6: A High Level of Safety for Motorists, Pedestrians, and Bicyclists on Palo Alto
Streets
Policy T-39: To the extent allowed by law, continue to make safety the first priority of
citywide transportation planning. Prioritize pedestrian, bicycle, and automobile safety
over vehicle level-of-service at intersections.
Policy T-41: Vigorously and consistently enforce speed limits and other traffic laws.
Environmental Review
As this is a study session and no action will be taken, environmental review is not required.
Attachments:
Attachment A: Evaluation Results of 2016 Engineering and Traffic Surveys (PDF)
Attachment B: 11.09.16 PTC Minutes (PDF)
11/1/2016
2016 City of Palo Alto Engineering and Traffic Survey
ADT
Number of
Collisions
(Apr 09 -
Apr 12)
Length(m
i)
Collision
Rate (RSP)
[B]
State
Average
Collision
Rate [C ]
10 MPH
Pace
Number
in Pace
% in
Pace
50%tile
Speed
85%tile
Speed [D]
Recmd.
Speed
(mph)
1 Alma St from University Ave to Lincoln Ave Arterial NB/SB 4 25 28,716 121 0.53 4.4 0 28 - 37 158 76% 32 mph 37 mph 30
2 Alma St from Lincoln Ave to Oregon Expy Arterial NB/SB 4 35 30,168 138 1.16 2.2 0 34 - 43 178 89% 38 mph 42 mph 35
3 Alma St from Oregon Exp to E Meadow Dr Arterial NB/SB 4 35 29,235 55 1.18 0.9 0 34 - 43 197 80% 38 mph 42 mph 35
4 Alma St from E Meadow Dr to South City Limit Arterial NB/SB 4 35 28,895 39 1.11 0.7 1.42 32 - 41 171 66% 37 mph 42 mph 35
5 Amaranta Ave from Los Robles Ave to Maybell Ave Collector NB/SB 2 25 9,379 3 0.32 0.5 0 22 - 31 122 75% 26 mph 30 mph 25
6 Arastradero Rd from Purissima Road to Deer Creek Road Arterial EB/WB 2 35 6,698 4 0.50 0.7 0 30 - 39 149 74% 36 mph 41 mph 35
7 Arastradero Rd from Deer Creek Road to Foothill Exp Arterial EB/WB 2 35 1,759 18 0.85 6.6 1.42 31 - 40 169 81% 36 mph 40 mph 35
8 Arastradero Rd from Foothill Exp to El Camino Real Residential Arterial EB/WB 2 to 4 25 20,328 91 1.05 2.3 0 26 - 35 183 81% 30 mph 34 mph 30
9 Arboretum Rd from Sandhill Rd to Quarry Rd Collector NB/SB 4 25 11,403 28 0.19 6.9 1.42 22 - 31 157 83% 27 mph 30 mph 25
10 Birch St from California Av to Page Mill Exp Collector NB/SB 4 25 5,702 31 0.23 12.7 1.42 13 - 22 163 83% 18 mph 21 mph 25
11 California Av from Park Blvd to El Camino Real Collector EB/WB 2 25 4,310 36 0.27 16.7 0 15 - 24 121 98% 19 mph 21 mph 25
12 California Av from El Camino Real to Hanover St Collector EB/WB 2 25 4,322 5 0.49 1.3 0 21 - 30 170 75% 24 mph 29 mph 25
13 Channing Av from W Bayshore Rd to Newell Rd Collector EB/WB 2 25 3,600 18 0.84 3.3 0 21 - 30 143 83% 27 mph 30 mph 25
14 Channing Av from Newell Rd to Guinda Av Collector EB/WB 2 25 4,243 10 0.60 2.2 0 21 - 30 179 87% 25 mph 28 mph 25
15 Channing Av from Guinda Av to Alma St Collector EB/WB 2 25 3,418 61 0.74 13.2 0 19 - 28 94 92% 23 mph 26 mph 25
16 Charleston Rd from El Camino Real to Alma St Residential Arterial EB/WB 4 25 16,014 81 0.40 6.9 1.42 28 - 37 150 77% 33 mph 37 mph 30
17 Charleston Rd from Alma St to Middlefield Rd Residential Arterial EB/WB 2 25 14,961 31 0.59 1.9 0 24 - 33 190 82% 29 mph 32 mph 25
18 Charleston Rd from Middlefield Rd to Fabian Way Residential Arterial EB/WB 2 25 16,126 26 0.36 2.5 0 25 - 34 191 81% 30 mph 34 mph 30
19 Churchill Av from Embarcadero Rd to Alma St Collector EB/WB 2 25 2,394 39 0.50 17.9 0 25 - 34 179 96% 30 mph 32 mph 25
20 Churchill Av from Alma St to El Camino Real Collector EB/WB 2 25 7,995 32 0.27 8.0 0 23 - 32 186 89% 28 mph 31 mph 25
21 Colorado Av from W Bayshore Rd to Middlefield Rd Collector EB/WB 2 25 2,166 30 0.91 8.3 0 19 - 28 76 70% 25 mph 29 mph 25
22 Coyote Hill Rd from Page Mill Rd to Hillview Av Collector NB/SB 4 35 1,940 5 0.67 2.1 0 37 - 46 99 66% 41 mph 46 mph 40
23 Deer Creek Rd from Page MillRd to Arastradero Rd Collector NB/SB 2 35 5,243 5 0.70 0.7 0 34 - 43 103 68% 38 mph 44 mph 40
24 E Bayshore Rd from Embarcadero Rd to Bay Lands Frontage Collector NB/SB 2 35 5,115 26 0.74 3.8 0 36 - 45 161 66% 42 mph 47 mph 40
25 E Bayshore Rd from Bay Lands Frontage to San Antonio Rd Collector NB/SB 2 35 4,957 20 1.14 1.9 0 37 - 46 109 60% 41 mph 46 mph 40
26 E Meadow Dr from W Bayshore Rd to Louis Rd Collector EB/WB 2 25 3,125 5 0.27 3.2 0 21 - 30 121 86% 26 mph 29 mph 25
27 E Meadow Dr from Louis Rd to Alma St Collector EB/WB 2 25 7,098 60 1.10 4.2 0 24 - 33 144 81% 29 mph 32 mph 25
28 El Camino Way from Los Robles Av to Maybell Av Collector NB/SB 2 25 4,047 51 0.37 18.7 0 19 - 28 96 86% 24 mph 27 mph 25
29 Embarcadero Rd from Embarcadero Rd to Highway 101 Residential Arterial EB/WB 4 25 5,948 33 0.59 5.2 1.42 29 - 38 132 72% 32 mph 37 mph 30
30 Embarcadero Rd from Highway 101 to Middlefield Rd Residential Arterial EB/WB 4 25 27,867 120 1.21 2.0 1.42 28 - 37 150 79% 32 mph 37 mph 30
31 Embarcadero Rd from Middlefield Rd to Alma St Residential Arterial EB/WB 4 25 26,222 76 0.75 2.1 1.42 28 - 37 166 79% 32 mph 37 mph 30
32 Foothill Exp from Page Mill Rd to South City Limit Expressway NB/SB 4 45 20,602 39 1.31 0.8 1.42 42 - 51 144 68% 47 mph 52 mph 45
33 Guinda Av from Lytton Av to Channing Av Collector NB/SB 2 25 2,101 25 0.44 14.8 0 19 - 28 116 90% 24 mph 27 mph 25
34 Hamilton Av from Middlefield Rd to Alma St Arterial EB/WB 2 25 7,986 127 0.64 13.6 0 15 - 24 151 85% 20 mph 24 mph 25
35 Hansen Way from El Camino Real to Page Mill Exp Collector EB/WB 2 30 3,635 22 0.58 5.7 0 27 - 36 149 88% 30 mph 33 mph 30
36 High St from Lytton Av to Channing Av Collector NB/SB 2 25 2,363 62 0.44 32.7 0 16 - 25 88 91% 20 mph 24 mph 25
37 Hillview Av from Foothill Exp to Arastradero Rd Arterial NB/SB 2 35 4,815 7 0.70 1.1 0 30 - 39 121 71% 35 mph 40 mph 35
38 Homer Av from Guinda Av to Alma St Collector EB/WB 2 25 3,437 58 0.74 12.4 0 19 - 28 78 78% 23 mph 27 mph 25
39 Laguna Av from Matadero Av to Los Robles Av Collector NB/SB 2 25 924 0 0.45 0.0 0 22 - 31 74 73% 25 mph 29 mph 25
40 Lambert Av from Park Blvd to El Camino Real Collector EB/WB 2 25 1,487 10 0.28 13.4 0 18 - 27 70 68% 23 mph 29 mph 25
41 Loma Verde Av from W Bayshore Rd to Middlefield Rd Collector EB/WB 2 25 2,173 20 0.84 6.0 0 23 - 32 156 83% 28 mph 31 mph 25
42 Loma Verde Av from Middlefield Rd to Alma St Collector EB/WB 2 25 4,633 11 0.65 2.0 0 24 - 33 179 83% 28 mph 32 mph 25
43 Los Robles Av from Laguna Av to El Camino Real Collector EB/WB 2 25 2,200 34 0.59 14.4 0 23 - 32 95 79% 27 mph 32 mph 25
44 Louis Rd from Embarcadero Rd to Oregon Exp Collector NB/SB 2 25 4,469 43 0.45 11.8 0 25 - 34 117 87% 29 mph 32 mph 25
45 Louis Rd from Oregon Exp to Loma Verde Rd Collector NB/SB 2 25 4,097 7 0.82 1.1 0 21 - 30 88 82% 26 mph 29 mph 25
Determination of the Recommended Speed
Road
Segment
Number
Road Segment Name Direction
# of
Lanes
Posted
Speed
Limit
(mph) [A]
Roadway Type
Stantec ETS Results 110116
11/1/2016
ADT
Number of
Collisions
(Apr 09 -
Apr 12)
Length(m
i)
Collision
Rate (RSP)
[B]
State
Average
Collision
Rate [C ]
10 MPH
Pace
Number
in Pace
% in
Pace
50%tile
Speed
85%tile
Speed [D]
Recmd.
Speed
(mph)
Determination of the Recommended Speed
Road
Segment
Number
Road Segment Name Direction
# of
Lanes
Posted
Speed
Limit
(mph) [A]
Roadway Type
46 Louis Rd from Loma Verde Rd to Charleston Rd Collector NB/SB 2 25 2,734 8 1.05 1.5 0 21 - 30 91 78% 26 mph 31 mph 25
47 Lytton Av from Alma St to Middlefield Rd Arterial EB/WB 2 25 10,770 86 0.64 6.9 0 19 - 28 164 85% 24 mph 28 mph 25
48 Matadero Av from El Camino Real to Laguna Av Collector EB/WB 2 25 1,081 7 0.55 6.5 0 19 - 28 91 78% 24 mph 28 mph 25
49 Middlefield Rd from Embarcadero Rd to Oregon Exp Residential Arterial NB/SB 2 25 9,298 47 0.71 3.9 0 23 - 32 172 82% 27 mph 31 mph 25
50 Middlefield Rd from Oregon Exp to E Charleston Rd Residential Arterial NB/SB 4 25 14,003 133 1.67 3.1 0 28 - 37 189 81% 33 mph 37 mph 30
51 Middlefield Rd from E Charleston Rd to South City Limit Residential Arterial NB/SB 4 25 14,578 67 0.45 5.6 0 26 - 35 156 74% 32 mph 37 mph 30
52 Newell Rd from East City Limit to Channing Av Collector EB/WB 2 25 3,886 8 0.44 2.5 0 20 - 29 92 88% 25 mph 28 mph 25
53 Newell Rd from Channing Av to Embarcadero Rd Collector EB/WB 2 25 5,132 14 0.39 3.9 0 24 - 33 159 82% 28 mph 32 mph 25
54 N California Av from Embarcadero Rd to Middlefield Rd Collector EB/WB 2 25 3,010 12 0.77 2.8 0 21 - 30 95 84% 24 mph 28 mph 25
55 N California Av from Middlefield Rd to Alma St Collector EB/WB 2 25 1,666 26 0.64 13.4 0 21 - 30 99 75% 25 mph 29 mph 25
56 Oregon Exp from Middlefield Rd to Alma St Arterial EB/WB 4 35 40,830 122 0.63 2.6 1.42 30 - 39 167 68% 35 mph 40 mph 35
57 Park Blvd from California Av to Lambert Av Collector NB/SB 2 25 5,432 27 0.58 4.7 0 22 - 31 126 90% 27 mph 30 mph 25
58 Peter Coutts Rd from Stanford Av to Page Mill Rd Collector NB/SB 2 25 2,786 5 0.56 1.8 0 24 - 33 102 85% 29 mph 32 mph 25
59 Porter Dr from Hillview Av to Page Mill Rd Collector NB/SB 2 25 3,645 11 0.41 4.0 0 24 - 33 114 75% 28 mph 32 mph 25
60 Quarry Rd from El Camino Real to Campus Dr Collector EB/WB 4 25 16,083 67 0.75 3.0 1.42 23 - 32 158 74% 27 mph 32 mph 25
61 Sandhill Road from El Camino Real to Arboretum Arterial EB/WB 2 30 14,431 16 0.45 1.4 0 27 - 36 180 85% 30 mph 34 mph 30
62 Sandhill Road from Arboretum to West City limit Arterial EB/WB 4 35 25,298 18 1.20 0.3 1.42 31 - 40 152 72% 36 mph 42 mph 35
63 Stanford Av from El Camino Real to Peter Coutts Rd Collector EB/WB 2 25 5,818 39 0.86 4.3 0 23 - 32 193 86% 27 mph 31 mph 25
64 Stanford Av from Peter Coutts Rd to Junipero Serra Blvd Collector EB/WB 2 25 5,220 0 0.56 0.0 0 24 - 33 181 83% 28 mph 32 mph 25
65 University Av from East City Limit to Middlefield Rd Residential Arterial EB/WB 2 25 21,658 190 1.04 4.6 0 28 - 37 163 81% 31 mph 36 mph 30
66 University Av from Middlefield Rd to Alma St Arterial EB/WB 2 25 11,717 166 0.64 12.2 0 18 - 27 128 82% 24 mph 27 mph 25
67 Waverley St from Lytton Av to Channing Av Collector NB/SB 2 25 2,664 36 0.44 16.9 0 18 - 27 159 84% 22 mph 26 mph 25
68 Waverley St from Channing Av to Embarcadero Rd Collector NB/SB 2 25 3,230 19 0.41 7.9 0 20 - 29 151 84% 25 mph 29 mph 25
69 W Bayshore Rd from Oregon Exp to Loma Verde Ave Collector NB/SB 2 30/35 4,886 21 1.07 2.2 0 29 - 38 152 69% 34 mph 38 mph 30/35
70 W Meadow Dr from Alma St to El Camino Way Collector EB/WB 2 25 6,658 36 0.26 11.4 0 22 - 31 160 81% 28 mph 32 mph 25
Note:
Bold Values: Recommended Speed Limit Change
Stantec ETS Results 110116
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Planning & Transportation Commission 1
Regular Meeting Agenda: November 9, 2016 2
Council Chambers 3
250 Hamilton Avenue 4
6:00 PM 5
Vice Chair Gardias participating from: 6
University of Chicago Booth School of Business 7
Gleacher Center 8
450 N. Cityfront Plaza Dr. 9
Chicago, Illinois 60611 10
Call to Order / Roll Call: 6:08pm 11
All Commissioners were present with Commissioner Przemek Gardias participating via 12
telephone. 13
14
Chair Fine: [tape starts in progress] Commission November 9th. It's 6:08 and if we could please 15
take the roll. 16
17
Yolanda Cervantes, Administrative Assistant: Commissioner Alcheck, Chair Fine, Vice-Chair 18
Gardias? 19
20
Chair Fine: He is disembodied on the phone back here. 21
22
Commissioner Tanaka: Gardias, are you here? 23
24
Vice-Chair Gardias: Here. 25
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ms. Cervantes: Commissioner Rosenblum, Commissioner Tanaka, Commissioner Waldfogel. Ok, 2
six present. Everyone's present. 3
4
Chair Fine: Thank you. 5
6
Election of Officers 7
1. The Commission will elect a Chair and Vice-Chair for 2017 8
9
Chair Fine: Our first order of business is electing a Chair and Vice-Chair for 2017. As I 10
mentioned in our last meeting we had spoken at the pre-Commission meeting where we felt it 11
might be more appropriate given some of the roll off here on the Planning Commission and 12
given we have two new members joining us to perhaps postpone that to January although all 13
our codes do say we have to make a vote in November. So the floor is open for any Motions on 14
the Chair and Vice-Chair, but happy to take a discussion as well. 15
16
Commissioner Rosenblum: Quick, quick point of order or maybe a question for Cara. Is there 17
any… it does seem like the right thing to do would be to wait until we have all Commissioners 18
seated given that two people will be leaving us, one person has not yet been seated, it’s sort of 19
an odd time to be choosing a Chair and Vice-Chair. Is there any latitude or is the code fairly 20
strict on this or can we make a Motion to delay with Council’s approval or something? 21
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Cara Silver, Senior Assistant City Attorney: Yes, thank you. So different boards and commissions 2
have different requirements; the Planning and Transportation Commission’s (PTC) requirement 3
is actually codified in the municipal code and it says that you must take up the election of Chair 4
and Vice-Chair in November. So we have calendared it for you to comply with the municipal 5
code requirement; however, we do believe that you have discretion to postpone the vote to 6
January when you have a full, a new Commission. 7
8
Chair Fine: Any comments or questions from Commissioners on this? Otherwise we either have 9
to take a vote tonight or vote to postpone if I understand correctly. Commissioner Waldfogel. 10
11
MOTION #1 12
13
Commissioner Waldfogel: Move to postpone. 14
15
SECOND 16
17
Commissioner Rosenblum: I second. 18
19
Chair Fine: We have a Motion to postpone this vote. Can we get a date? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Waldfogel: I guess it would be the first meeting in January. What is the… 2
3
Commissioner Rosenblum: January 11th. 4
5
Chair Fine: Sorry, I think we may want one more piece of information which is when the new 6
Commissioners get seated. 7
8
Commissioner Rosenblum: Right, so… 9
10
Jonathan Lait, Assistant Director: Great. The new Commissioners are their term starts on 11
December 16th which is after your last meeting in December and so they will attend the first 12
meeting in January, it’s January 11th. 13
14
Commissioner Rosenblum: Sorry, a follow on to that. I think you're referring to Doria Summa 15
and, but not to the people replacing. 16
17
Mr. Lait: Oh, very good. Thank you. Yes, I was referring to the two Commissioners that were 18
recently appointed. We will have two vacancies here and I don't… it has to go through that the 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
process that the City Council has of appointing new Commissioners. So there will be those 1
vacancies. 2
3
Commissioner Alcheck: Can I chime in? 4
5
Chair Fine: Commissioner Alcheck. 6
7
Commissioner Alcheck: So I don’t want to sound too controversial here, but I think would be a 8
mistake to postpone. Doing that would result probably in such a long delay. They’re probably 9
going to have to reinterview which will require somewhere around I imagine four to six weeks 10
to collect applications. I imagine that the City Council will want to wait for its newest members 11
to join the Council before they review those applications. And so if assuming we did vote in 12
January we would be voting without two seated members anyways. 13
14
Commissioner Waldfogel: Just one because Commissioner Tanaka’s term is already expired. 15
16
Commissioner Alcheck: Right, so potentially with one missing. So then I mean look again, I 17
don't think I have a horse in this race, but it seems to me like we would be essentially swapping 18
out unfamiliar voters with familiar voters. My assumption is that we will not nominate a new 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
member to leadership, but we might. I guess I… we are six people today. I wonder if we could 1
review the concept of postponement if for example we had some sort of stalemate. 2
3
Chair Fine: Vice-Chair, any comments? 4
5
Vice-Chair Gardias: I’m sorry I didn’t hear the question. If you mind repeating? 6
7
Chair Fine: We're trying to decide if we should postpone the vote of new officers until all new 8
Commissioners are seated or whether we should have that vote today. 9
10
Vice-Chair Gardias: Yeah, and are you asking about my stand because I thought that there was a 11
Motion on the floor, right, to postpone it. 12
13
Chair Fine: There is a Motion on the floor. I’d like to get some feedback from across the 14
Commission. 15
16
Vice-Chair Gardias: Ok. So [unintelligible] it wasn’t clear to me. So in terms of my perspective 17
it’s like this I think that it would be proper to have new members and a and with [unintelligible] 18
being appointed to the City Council we will be missing only one person. So it’s proper to have 19
new members and add and the second person, Doria, to participate in the vote as they will be 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
full-fledged members of this Commission. I believe that so from this perspective it's good to 1
wait till the meeting on January the 11th, but with this in mind I just want to make a comment 2
because I remember when Greg’s tenure started two years ago and I think that it was he was 3
elected by us in December and it was, it gave him the proper time to be a Chairman for the full 4
twelve months. While Adrian when we elected Adrian to be a Chairman he was also elected in 5
January and as a result he pretty much there was a loss of like a 10 percent of the time. So I 6
think that what I would like to do, I would like to only wish that this is our last time when we 7
have to postpone elections and the system will be fixed so we can continuously work and the 8
tenures would be full 12 months. 9
10
Chair Fine: So would that be your preference for voting now, today, with the Chair to transfer 11
Chair and Vice-Chair transfer in December? 12
13
Vice-Chair Gardias: No, I think that pretty much with this what we have right now we don't, I 14
don't believe that we have much choice if we really want to respect the new members that 15
were elected to the Commission. So with this and with those two new members in mind I just I 16
support the Motion that’s on the floor just to move it to the 11th of January, but also I just 17
wanted to express regret that I don't believe that the system should work like this. 18
19
Chair Fine: Ok. Thank you. Commissioner Tanaka. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ms. Silver: Through the Chair? I did want to make one clarification is that we do recognize that 2
these timing requirements are not completely aligned. We made some amendments I believe 3
last year and the City Clerk's Office is going to be making some further amendments hopefully 4
to bring all of this in alignment. So we appreciate your patience on that. 5
6
Chair Fine: Ok, thank you. Commissioner Tanaka. 7
8
Commissioner Tanaka: So I definitely appreciate the Motion about trying to delay it, but I think 9
most likely who will be Chair and Vice-Chair is going to be someone here because we have 10
experience. I think any new member is going to be very difficult. In fact the new members 11
probably don't know the existing members very well and so you if you wanted to think about 12
like who is best informed to make this decision I think it's the six people sitting here today 13
because it's going to be… well, maybe not the two of us, but it's going to be the four, one of the 14
four people here today. And so I suggest we actually do as the code requires and make a 15
decision and that way the new Chair would have a full term to serve. 16
17
Chair Fine: Thank you. Commissioner Alcheck. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah I mean again I think I would I think I posed the notion of delaying 1
mostly because I… again, we won't have a full Commission even in January and I'll just add a 2
little context, when we had the transition and I think it was just me and you here at the time, 3
but when we had the transition from Commissioner Martinez to Commissioner Michael there 4
was like a year and three quarters Chair. Like it literally lasted forever because we didn't have 5
sort of a codified process and I think that… again, I do think that there is a benefit to sort of 6
having the process always take place at the same time of the year. And my hope would be that 7
when we get to January we wouldn't delay further for another month if for example we had a 8
new, newly, [unintelligible] the process for newly appointing the remaining Commissioner was 9
sort of midway. And then my last comment would be I do think that there is some significant 10
benefit to having our current leadership as well as what can be described as our City's future 11
leadership weigh in on this decision. So… 12
13
Chair Fine: Ok, Commissioner Rosenblum. 14
15
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah I just want to say I think I'm persuaded by Commissioners 16
Tanaka and Alcheck that we should not delay the vote. We should go forward. I don’t know if 17
that means withdrawing. I'm still happy have a vote on this Motion, but I would be voting 18
against now. I agree with you guys. I think we may as well go forward. It's not a really big net 19
gain to wait. It just ends up delaying for another two months. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Fine: If you're going to not support this Motion that you've just seconded… 2
3
Commissioner Rosenblum: Then withdraw my second and you can (interrupted) 4
5
MOTION #1 WITHDRAWN 6
7
Chair Fine: Ok, floor is clear. I'd like to have a Motion then on electing Chair and Vice-Chair for 8
2017. It’s open. And Commissioner Gardias [Note-Vice-Chair] please speak up if you have a 9
Motion you'd like to make. 10
11
Vice-Chair Gardias: No, I think that somebody else made the Motion. So I support the Motion 12
on the floor. 13
14
Chair Fine: It's been with, the seconds been withdrawn so there is no Motion on the floor. 15
16
Vice-Chair Gardias: Oh, there is no Motion on the floor. 17
18
Chair Fine: Yep. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Gardias: So I think that I think it’s turn to Mike, Eric, and Greg they just spoke about 1
different, different Motions so maybe they would propose a Motion. 2
3
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah if we’re not going to have another second on the Motion to 4
delay then I could propose a Motion on first Chair and then Vice-Chair, but I want to give 5
Commissioner Waldfogel a chance to push through his Motion. 6
7
Chair Fine: Commissioner Waldfogel. 8
9
Commissioner Waldfogel: I don't have any further comments. 10
11
Chair Fine: Commissioner Rosenblum. 12
13
NOMINATION FOR CHAIR 14
15
Commissioner Rosenblum: So I'd like to nominate Commissioner Alcheck in his last year as our 16
Chair if he would accept. 17
18
NOMINATION ACCEPTED 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Alcheck: I will accept your nomination. 1
2
SECOND 3
4
Chair Fine: Is there a second? I’ll second the Motion. Would you like to speak to your Motion? 5
6
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yes. Commissioner Alcheck is the longest tenured here I believe 7
after the transition. He is consistently thoughtful and deliberate. He has domain expertise in 8
land use. I find myself often persuaded by arguments that he brings up from his legal 9
perspective and I think he’s be, he often has ideas on how to streamline process and seems 10
very interested in this. As I've got to know him I think that he would be a really effective Chair 11
and I'd like to see him get a chance to implement some of his ideas around making this body 12
more effective. 13
14
VOTE 15
16
Chair Fine: Thank you. I'll speak to my second. I agree with you that I find Commissioner 17
Alcheck’s business and land use background very informative to this Commission. I know he 18
gives me a lot of critiques for letting our meetings go too long so if elected Chair I hope he can 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
make them go a little bit faster. Are there any comments on this Motion or should we take a 1
vote? 2
3
Alright, let’s take our vote on all those in favor of electing Commissioner Alcheck as Chair in 4
2017. All those in favor? Commissioner Gardias, Vice-Chair Gardias? 5
6
Vice-Chair Gardias: I abstain based on the argument that I already provided that I think it would 7
be proper just to have the upcoming members [unintelligible]. 8
9
Chair Fine: Ok, we have four and all those against? Ok. So we have four in favor, two 10
abstentions. Commissioner Alcheck congratulations for 2017. And (interrupted) 11
12
NOMINATION PASSED (4-0-2, Vice-Chair Gardias and Commissioner Waldfogel abstaining) 13
14
Mr. Lait: Chair if you could just give us one minute? 15
16
Chair Fine: Sure. 17
18
Mr. Lait: So the conversation we were just having here at staff is there was the conversation 19
about whether this gets postponed to 2017 or not and maybe you can clarify if that was the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
intent? Otherwise going forward this would take place today after your nomination of Vice-1
Chair. 2
3
Chair Fine: Certainly. 4
5
Mr. Lait: Commissioner Alcheck would take over and be Chair for this meeting. 6
7
Chair Fine: Yep. 8
9
Mr. Lait: Ok, so Vice-Chair would be the next nomination. 10
11
Chair Fine: Ok. I'd like to entertain any Motions on the Vice-Chair. 12
13
NOMINATION FOR VICE-CHAIR 14
15
Commissioner Alcheck: I’d like to make a Motion to nominate Commissioner Rosenblum for 16
Vice-Chair. 17
18
NOMINATION REFUSED 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Rosenblum: I'm honored, but I would not accept. I was going to nominate 1
Commissioner Gardias [note-Vice-Chair] again in hope that he would serve again. That I'd 2
prefer not to. I prefer to see you with Commissioner Gardias [note-Vice-Chair]. 3
4
Chair Fine: We’re still looking for a Motion on our Vice-Chair to take over starting today. 5
6
NOMINATION FOR VICE-CHAIR 7
8
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah as mentioned I would like make a Motion for Commissioner 9
Gardias [note-Vice-Chair] to do a second term as Vice-Chair. 10
11
Chair Fine: Commissioner Gardias if you are nominated for Vice-Chair would you accept that? 12
13
NOMINATION REFUSED 14
15
Vice-Chair Gardias: So I appreciate this nomination very much, but based on the same premise 16
of inclusion of the upcoming Commissioners I'd like to… I'd prefer just to have their votes. 17
18
Chair Fine: Ok. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Gardias: On the new, on the Vice-Chair. 1
2
NOMINATION FOR VICE-CHAIR 3
4
Chair Fine: Then it seems like we have one remaining member here. Commissioner Waldfogel, 5
I'd like to nominate you for Vice-Chair. 6
7
SECOND 8
9
Commissioner Rosenblum: I would second that. 10
11
Chair Fine: Would you accept this nomination? 12
13
Commissioner Waldfogel: I'm just processing this since my expectation coming to this meeting 14
was that we take this up in January. 15
16
Chair Fine: Yep. 17
18
Commissioner Waldfogel: I think we have a problem if we don't have anybody left. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Fine: I still think you’d do a very fine job. It’s not because your last one. 1
2
NOMINATION ACCEPTED 3
4
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No last man standing. Ok, I will accept the 5
nomination. 6
7
Chair Fine: Ok, thank you. Commissioner Rosenblum I believe you made the Motion or I made 8
it and you seconded it. So I’ll just speak to it quickly. Commissioner Waldfogel has been an 9
extraordinarily quick study. Your e-mails are very detailed in terms of questions and ideas for 10
the different issues that come before the Commission. I think you'd be a huge asset and a good 11
partner with our Chair Alcheck. So I would look forward to seeing you as Vice-Chair. 12
Commissioner Rosenblum? 13
14
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, I concur with everything you said. I recently got the chance to 15
work with Commissioner Waldfogel closely while looking at the inclusionary or the impact fees 16
for residential and nonresidential use. He’s very, very intelligent, very fast, broad range of 17
domain knowledge. I think you'd be a great asset. 18
19
VOTE 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Fine: Ok, so we have a Motion on the floor to nominate Commissioner Waldfogel as our 2
Vice-Chair starting at this meeting. All those in favor? All those against? Any abstentions? 3
4
Vice-Chair Gardias: I abstain based on the same argument. 5
6
Commissioner Waldfogel: This is a difficult one because I agree with Mike’s argument 7
[unintelligible]. 8
9
Chair Fine: Ok. We have four in favor and two abstentions including the nominee, but 10
congratulations. I'd like to say to our two oncoming Commissioners there was some appetite 11
here to postpone, but it seems like we would have been split and we've made a decision; 12
however, you will be serving for four years and I do hope that you all assume either a Vice-13
Chairmanship or Chairmanship. I think that would be important for this Commission and I 14
would also encourage staff that we do need to realign these appointments in election years, in 15
years when we have Commissioners rolling off and stuff because it's kind of awkward frankly. 16
17
NOMINATION PASSED (4-0-2, Vice-Chair Gardias and Commissioner Waldfogel abstaining) 18
19
Mr. Lait: Ok, so then if we’re ready we’ll move some seats. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Fine: Let’s do it. [unintelligible-lots of speaking off microphone and shuffling around]. 2
3
Commissioner Action: Commissioner Eric Rosenblum nominated Commissioner Michael 4
Alcheck for 2017 PTC Chair, the nomination was seconded by current Chair Adrian Fine. The 5
nomination passed with a vote of 4 in favor and 2 abstentions. 6
Commissioner Eric Rosenblum nominated Commissioner Asher Waldfogel for 2017 PTC Vice-7
Chair, the nomination was seconded by Chair Adrian Fine. The nomination passed with a vote 8
of 4 in favor and 2 abstentions. 9
Oral Communications 10
The public may speak to any item not on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker.1,2 11
12
Chair Alcheck: Ok, moving on. Oral Communications, the public may speak on any item not on 13
the agenda. We will allot three minutes to anybody who would like to speak. Do we have any 14
speaker cards? We don't have any speaker cards for Oral Communications so let's move on to 15
our agenda. 16
17
Agenda Changes, Additions, and Deletions 18
The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 19
20
Chair Alcheck: Are there any agenda changes, additions or deletions? 21
22
Jonathan Lait, Assistant Director: None that I'm aware of. 23
24
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Ok. 1
2
City Official Reports 3
2. Assistant Director's Report 4
3. Planning & Transportation Commission Meeting Schedule and Assignments 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Let's begin with the City Official Reports, Agenda Item Number 2. 7
8
Jonathan Lait, Assistant Director: Thank you. I just need one second here to pull up my notes. 9
Ok, well I'll start by saying congratulations to Chair Alcheck and Vice-Chair Waldfogel and your 10
advancements to Chair Vice-Chair. I look forward to working with you in the coming year. I will 11
note that the City Council will consider a preliminary parcel map for 900 California Avenue. The 12
Planning Commission had previously considered this. This is going on Nov 14th and 13
Commissioner Fine is the is identified as the representative to the City Council. If there's an 14
interest in participating, we're not expecting a whole lot of conversation about that particular 15
item. On November 28th the City Council consider the Citizen Advisory Committee (CAC) 16
recommendations on the Land Use Element. 17
18
And we have some upcoming agendas on the 30th for the PTC and December 14th. While the 19
agenda topics are still a little bit in flux we do anticipate that these will be full agendas and we 20
would encourage the Commission to look toward those calendars to make sure we have a 21
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
quorum in attendance for those meetings. And then finally we've included in the packet this 1
evening a proposed calendar for your meetings in 2017. You can find that on packet Page 7. I 2
will note that there is one typo for the May 31st hearing date. That should read 6:00 p.m. 3
instead of 12:00 p.m. We will make that correction. And then if the Commission wants to 4
make a decision now or later regarding the November 29th date and the December 27th date 5
of next year. Otherwise we can take that up at a future date. That concludes the staff report. 6
7
Chair Alcheck: I haven’t even really looked that far in my calendar. My initial response to the 8
Thanksgiving meeting is just whether or not we're going to have enough people present. Do we 9
want to explore that right now? Do you guys want to open up your calendars and just 10
determine whether we'll even have a… Right, whether we’ll even have enough people on to 11
make a quorum. Are we still going to have the City Council elect members through the end of 12
the year? 13
14
Mr. Lait: Are we going to have what? 15
16
Chair Alcheck: They still serve until the end of the year? 17
18
Mr. Lait: Yes. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Ok, so why don’t if everybody could just double check their calendars and make 1
sure they’re available and if anybody is not available can just speak up. 2
3
Commissioner Fine: I'm available on the thirtieth. 4
5
Commissioner Rosenblum: I'm also available. 6
7
Chair Alcheck: I actually don't know. I have to check. I know that I'm out of town on 8
Thanksgiving and I don't know when I'm leaving. I imagine I am leaving on the 30th so… 9
10
Mr. Lait: Ok. I think we may have sent an e-mail to the Commission about the 30th and we 11
think we do have a quorum based on some earlier correspondence that we've received. 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Nevermind, nevermind. 14
15
Mr. Lait: Ok. And I would say for the 2017 schedule it’s probably too far out and the note that 16
we've placed on the calendar is that it's subject to cancellation and I think for now we could 17
probably leave it at that. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Yeah no, I'm sorry. The 30th is the week after Thanksgiving also. So let's 1
proceed with that scheduled meeting. So this will be changed and updated on the web? Ok. 2
Alright. 3
4
Commission Action: The 2017 Meeting schedule was accepted, and it was requested that the 5
time for the May 31, 2017 meeting be corrected to show a starting time of 6:00pm. 6
Study Session 7
Public Comment is Permitted. Five (5) minutes per speaker.1,3 8
4. Study Session to Present the Findings of the Citywide Engineering and Traffic Speed 9
Surveys and Discuss Alternatives to the Establishment of Speed Limits and 10
Requirements for Enforcement 11
12
Chair Alcheck: Ok, let's begin with the Agenda Item Number 4, the study session. 13
14
Jonathan Lait, Assistant Director: So we’ll move on to Item Number 4. 15
16
Joshuah Mello, Chief Transportation Official: All right, good evening Commissioners, Chair and 17
Commissioners. My name is Josh Mello, I’m the City’s Chief Transportation Official. Joining me 18
this evening is Sergeant Craig Lee from the Police Department as well as our project manager 19
for our consulting team, Chris [Tanay] with the firm Stantec, and in the audience is Ruchika 20
Aggarwal who is our project manager for this project in the Transportation Division. So we're 21
all going to be here to answer questions after my brief presentation. This is a fairly complex 22
and technical topic so I'll try to go as quick as possible and you'll probably get better 23
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
information in the question and answer (Q&A) session after the presentation because you can 1
ask us more details. 2
3
So first of all the purpose of the Engineering and Traffic Surveys Project which we're presenting 4
tonight is to facilitate a community wide discussion around speed limits and enforcement in the 5
City of Palo Alto. We also collected data on average speeds and collisions for 70 roadway 6
segments in Palo Alto and this is a great wealth of information that we now have. We are 7
recommending updated speed limits that are enforceable under state law. We also hope to 8
establish target speeds where average speed exceeds current speed limit. And then lastly we 9
would like to implement reduced school zone speed limits that are now permitted under state 10
law. 11
12
So California is rather unique in that there is a very well defined process for setting speed limits 13
within the State of California. The State does allow communities to set prima facie speed limits 14
on local roadways and the streets and local streets are generally defined as minor residential 15
streets with two lanes or fewer. An arterial street like Embarcadero that passes through a 16
residential district is generally not covered under this section. Streets that are not eligible for 17
the prima facie speed limit are required to in order to establish speed limits on those roadways 18
we’re required to do engineering and traffic surveys and those are some of the that’s some of 19
the data that we're presenting to you tonight. So a roadway needs to be certified by a traffic 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
engineer after conducting an engineering and traffic survey. That survey looks at the average 1
travel speed along a roadway and calculates what's called the 85th percentile speed. And the 2
process in California requires that a community set the speed limit within five miles of that 85th 3
percentile speed. You are allowed to round up or down depending on typical math. You're also 4
allowed to reduce the speed limit by five miles an hour for extraordinary circumstances: lots of 5
pedestrians, a high collision rate or other factors that are observed by the traffic engineer 6
who’s conducting the traffic survey. 7
8
We currently have several arterial streets in Palo Alto that have lapsed traffic and engineering 9
surveys. Those are shown in green on this map. And what that means is it does not mean that 10
the police cannot enforce the speed limit, it means that those roadways are not certified for the 11
use of radar equipment to enforce the speed limit. The police can do pacing and estimation, 12
but those typically don't hold up as well in court. And in a lot of the cases the roadways that 13
you see highlighted in green the speed limit is significantly lower than the average travel speed 14
that we have observed. So that would also make it rather difficult for police to enforce because 15
ultimately the citations could be dismissed when they get to the Traffic Commissioners. 16
17
The segments shown in red on this map are the ones that we conducted traffic and engineering 18
surveys on so we now have average travel speed as well as a collision history for each of these 19
segments and also the average daily traffic. This is a map that illustrates our current speed 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
limits within the City of Palo Alto. So everything that’s shown in gray without a color is 25 miles 1
an hour and then the green dashes are 35 miles an hour. There's a couple orange streets which 2
are 30 miles an hour and then as you get towards the west side of the City, the more rural areas 3
there's actually a couple roadways that are 45 miles an hour and 50 miles an hour. But 4
generally most streets within the City of Palo Alto are 25 miles an hour currently. 5
6
We collected three different data points on each of the segments that you see on the map that 7
was two slides before shown in red. We collected this for 70 segments throughout the City. 8
Average daily traffic which is a count that's done typically on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, a 9
typical week day outside of a holiday week and that's the number of vehicles that are traveling 10
on the roadway segment in an average day. We also used radar to calculate the average speed 11
and Chris can go into more detail, but there are several different there's a mean speed, there is 12
an 85th percentile speed, and a couple other average speed points that are collected. And then 13
finally we did a five year collision data analysis for each of these segments. And what that does 14
is enable us to look at reducing the speed limit by five miles an hour on certain corridors where 15
there is a high collision rate or higher than average for a typical roadway. 16
17
I mentioned the 85th percentile speed earlier. This is a traffic engineering term that basically 18
means the speed at which 85 percent of motorists are going at or below. And that's collected 19
and that's a data point that’s collected through the engineering and traffic survey. So to 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
illustrate that this is a bar chart that shows the speeds of motorists on an example roadway. 1
The red arrow illustrates where the cutoff would be for the 85th percentile. So everybody 2
going, everybody below that red line would be going over the 85th percentile speed and 3
everybody above that red line would be going under the 85th percentile speed. And this is 4
generally under California law this is 85 percent of people are found to drive reasonably and 5
safe and 15 percent generally do not fall into that category. So that's how the 85th percentile 6
originated. In general thinking is that 85 percent of the people will operate their motor vehicles 7
in a safe manner on a roadway. 8
9
So our results for folks who drive and walk and bike in Palo Alto they weren't surprising; 14 10
street segments out of the 70 we found that the operating speed was higher, high enough to 11
warrant recommending raising the speed limit by generally by five miles an hour. 14 out of 70 12
is not a huge number, but it as you can see on this map it's quite a few of our major corridors: 13
Embarcadero Road, Middlefield Road, Arastradero Road, Alma, and University Avenue to name 14
a few. 15
16
One of the other components of this project is to move forward with the implementation of 17
reduced school zone speed limits. So AB 321 which was passed in a couple years ago by the 18
California Assembly authorized cities to reduce speed limits in the immediate area surrounding 19
a school to 15 or 20 miles an hour and extend the 25 miles per hour (mph) zone from five 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
hundred feet to a thousand feet. So in 2012 we completed a study and looked at all of the 1
schools within the City of Palo Alto and identified the streets that were eligible for these 2
reduced speed zones. And the maps on the following slides you can see the light gray area 3
surrounding the schools illustrates the new one thousand foot 15 mph zone and then the 4
darker circle that's a little bit outside the light gray illustrates the extended 25 mph zone. And 5
the streets that are highlighted, the ones that are highlighted in yellow those would be the 15 6
mph zones and then the streets that are highlighted in orange would be the 25 mph zones. And 7
there's maps that were developed for three areas within the City to for all of the areas 8
surrounding the schools. 9
10
The last component kind of this project is the establishment of what's called a target speed. So 11
we recognize that raising the speed limit could be very controversial on some of these 12
corridors. It's contradictory to a lot of the policies in our Comp Plan and a lot of our general city 13
priorities and prerogatives. So what we are recommending is that we establish a target speed 14
and this would be a design speed so it may hypothetically we may elect to move forward with a 15
speed limit increase of five miles an hour in order to allow for radar enforcement. 16
Simultaneously with that we could establish a target speed and say while we're raising the 17
speed limit to 30 to enable radar enforcement ultimately we want the roadway to operate at 25 18
miles an hour. So we're going to establish a target speed of 25 miles an hour and then all of our 19
design decisions will be based on a 25 mile an hour target speed. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
So the table there illustrates what that would look like. So the first column where it says 2
current is kind of the situation we're in today. We have an operating speed and this is a 3
hypothetical roadway, but it is very similar to what we observed on Embarcadero and 4
Middlefield Road. So the current operating speed or the 85th percentile is 42 miles an hour. 5
The speed limit that we would need to enact to conduct radar enforcement would be 40 miles 6
an hour and then we would establish a target design speed of 35 miles an hour. And you can 7
see the column on the right which says goal is where we ultimately want to end up. We want 8
to have an operating speed of 35, a speed limit of 35, and a target speed of 35. 9
10
Some other things we can do to get to that lower operating speed through design include the 11
installation of medians, adding raised crosswalks or other horizontal traffic control treatments, 12
traffic calming treatments. And then some other things that some of these we’ve already done 13
on Embarcadero Road we can establish a policy that we set this traffic signal coordination at or 14
below the speed limit in order to try to get those operating speeds down. We can look at the 15
installation of roundabouts in key locations. We can design lane shifts and tapers for 25 miles 16
an hour. We recently did this for Embarcadero Road when you're heading north from Oregon 17
Expressway the taper where the lane shifts over to the left is designed for 25 miles an hour. 18
Sometimes traffic engineers will over design a roadway and design for 10 miles over the 19
operating speed or 5 miles over the operating speed. If we were to establish a target speed we 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
would clearly give direction to the engineers that they need to design for the desired target 1
speed not what's currently occurring out there. And then we can add signed and marked 2
pedestrian crosswalks and other signing and striping treatments. And we have some ideas for 3
some of the roadways, Embarcadero Road and Middlefield Road particularly. 4
5
Potential future actions depending on the direction of the Commission and City Council; we 6
could retain the existing speed limits for fifty-six roadway segments where we found that the 7
speed limit was within that 85th percentile. We could move forward with increasing the speed 8
limits for 14 roadway segments to allow for radar enforcement. We could also establish target 9
speeds and post advisory speeds on these segments. So an advisory speed is a typically a 10
yellow warning sign with a speed that's a lower than the sign, the posted speed limit. It's not 11
enforceable. It's not a legal limit, but it's an advisory speed for motorists. We could also 12
implement the reduced school zone speed limits as identified in the previous study and 13
advocate for changes to the state law regarding speed limits. And in particular we could 14
advocate for the ability to set a citywide default speed limit of 25 miles an hour and then we 15
would sign any roadway that we wanted to operate at a higher speed. 16
17
So assuming we want to move forward with one or two or all of these potential actions our 18
next steps would be to we're going to City Council in November to get their feedback on the 19
same information that we're presenting tonight. We intend to hold community workshops in 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
January. We wanted to come to you first and gauge your opinion on these matters before we 1
went to the public in 2017. And then we would return to Council in March with ordinances that 2
would include any number of the proposed actions that I covered in the previous slide. And 3
ideally any speed limit changes or anything that we end up moving forward with would be 4
implemented in the spring of 2017. 5
6
That concludes my presentation. Again we have Craig Lee from the Police Department as well 7
as our traffic engineering consultant, Chris [Tanay], here to answer questions for you. Thank 8
you. 9
10
Chair Alcheck: OK. Does anybody want to kick us off? Questions, discussion? Go ahead. 11
Commissioner Rosenblum. 12
13
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, thank you for this. I just have a couple of questions to 14
understand a little bit about how traffic works with relation to accidents and future behavior. 15
So I imagine the relationship between raising the speed limit and accidents on any given 16
roadway may be fairly complex, but is there a fairly simple like you have a model that says prior 17
to recommend changes taking place/post expected accident rate? Is that somewhere? The 18
spreadsheet that you gave is great, but I don't see any kind of model output. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Christopher [Tanay], Stantec: Yeah, Christopher [Tanay]. The for this particular study what it is 1
that we essentially are looking at all the published rates that from California Highway Patrol 2
(CHP) which the City sends there. So we are looking at the overall rate. We're not specifically 3
looking at what caused those accidents either to be high, too high or too low, but to answer 4
your question is that there are published data, research data that shows for certain roadway, 5
let’s say that is very wide and that is red light being control by signal and there’s a lot of red 6
light running and if you implement certain changes let’s say in terms of let’s say maybe 7
reducing sudden signal timing this is what result you’re going to get. So I think there are 8
published rates that stays if you perform certain countermeasures to looking after you look at 9
the trends you might get certain results, reduction in collision. But for this study we are 10
essentially looking at the overall rates. 11
12
Mr. Mello: Yeah and I would just add that there is quite a bit of research on the likelihood of a 13
pedestrian or cyclist being killed at various travel speeds. And under 25 miles an hour and 14
under most pedestrians and cyclists survive. I think it's a 8 in 10 survive and then as you start to 15
cross over that 35 and 45 mile an hour threshold the rate of fatalities dramatically increases. 16
17
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, so right now like I said I'm just trying to clarify a couple things 18
and probably will come back with some comments on your specific recommendations. The 19
second question I have is: is there a circular relationship between raising the speed limit to hit 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the 85th percentile speed and then the speed increasing again? And I know that you have a 1
slide addressing this saying once you set the target speed you want that to equal actual speed 2
and enforcement speed, but is there… so if current 85th percentile for example is 37 miles an 3
hour so you the speed at 35 does, do you expect that the 85th percentile then creeps up to say 4
42 miles an hour? Do people tend to generally drive a certain amount over the speed limit? 5
6
Mr. Mello: So I’ll let Sergeant Lee build off this, but it's our understanding that when appeals 7
are made to citations it's a little bit more difficult to uphold a citation if there isn't at least if 8
someone's not exceeding the speed limit over a certain threshold. One or two miles an hour 9
typically is not something that would hold up when it got to the Traffic Commissioner, but I’ll let 10
Sergeant Lee… So the answer was probably yes. I think if you were to raise the speed limit from 11
35 to 30 people would see that as a license to go a little bit, five miles an hour faster than they 12
were when the speed limit was 25, but I’ll that Sergeant Lee also respond to that. 13
14
Sergeant Craig Lee, Palo Alto Police Department: Good evening. I would say that the 15
psychology of the drivers would be that they would drive higher than the new posted speed 16
limit. 17
18
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Sergeant Lee: And I think there are some rumors out in the public that say that officers don't 1
write tickets for speeds 15 over the posted speed limit. So they think that’s sort of like the 2
grace and that's not necessarily true, but I think that is a prevailing rumor and therefore 3
presumably speeds would increase above the new posted limit. 4
5
Commissioner Rosenblum: And my final clarification question is you have a certain number of 6
road segments that are recommended having increased speed limits based on this analysis, 7
based on observed a 85th percentile behavior and other data you have your recommendations. 8
Were there places where you’ve recommended not increasing because the 85th percentile is 9
higher than what you would see as a safe speed and therefore the recommended measure 10
should be traffic calming measures for example? So instead of just saying well, drivers seem to 11
be driving quickly through this area therefore we’re going to raise the speed limit, say they 12
shouldn't be driving quickly this area, we're trying to make the 85th percentile lower by using 13
some the traffic calming measures that you discussed. 14
15
Mr. Mello: So I’ll let Chris delve more into the details, but I will say one of the goals of this 16
project is to establish those target speeds and that's exactly what you're referring to. In the 17
case of let's say Middlefield Road particularly the north section, the two lane section if we 18
observe speeds that are higher than what we think are acceptable currently the speed limit is 19
25 miles an hour I think we would look to simultaneously with adjusting the speed limit to 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
enable radar enforcement we would want to implement traffic calming to bring that speed 1
back down. So this is not increasing the speed limits to enable enforcement is not seen as a 2
permanent solution. The target speed what ultimately defined how we what traffic calming 3
devices we implement and how we design the roadway to get those speeds back down to 4
where we think is appropriate in City policies and community, as we go to the community and 5
start to talk about what the target speeds should be along these corridors. But I'll let you delve 6
in and talk if there's any specific corridors where you were concerned about the 85th percentile 7
speed. 8
9
Mr. [Tanay]: Sure. I think the intent I think Josh as you mentioned is that we would like to first 10
establish what is impossible based on the 85th percentile setting limit and the law so that it is 11
enforceable. But I think Josh you mentioned is a multi-tong approach because at the same time 12
we’re recommending a target speed because with that we can implement traffic calming 13
measures. For example, we mentioned just now a [unintelligible] in terms of the median and 14
also raised crosswalk and also the last one that you mentioned is to implement a reduced speed 15
zone as you go to school district, AB 321. I think the effect of 321 based on where the schools 16
are is that my sense is that sort of [unintelligible]. My sense is that once those school zones are 17
sort of enforceable, 15 and 20 mph, I think driver's get a sense as they pass through certain 18
roadways these are enforceable roadways I think instead of driving faster my sense is that they 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
will probably be very cautious about going through those neighborhoods. So I think with all 1
that I think there will be more of kind of a positive effect on the speed. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: I’ll start with a few questions. So along the lines of the theory that if we increase 4
these speed limits to essentially enhance the opportunity for enforcement we might see some 5
increases in speed travel and then this would all be an exercise to eventually get us back down 6
to a lower speed limit. Why not just begin implementing the pieces of our target goal speed 7
like the medians or the various street enhancements now? Like why, I appreciate that there is 8
this notion that we could also enforce, but to me it seems like for the vast majority of Palo 9
Altans that we're not paying attention and also other drivers not necessarily from Palo Alto that 10
are driving through to this particular conversation it's going to be like information whiplash, 11
right? The speed is going to go and then it’s, but no one will be achieving that speed goal; I sort 12
of look at the speed limit sometimes as like the goal of the road, right? And so if for example 13
you post speed limits at 40 and then you immediately follow that up with these enhancements 14
then nobody's achieving that speed and then we reduce the speed it seems like that exercise of 15
actually changing a limit wouldn't necessarily be necessary. We could skip that step. It would 16
probably result in less enforcement opportunities although I’m not even sure that's the case 17
and then implement the roadway enhancements that would in essence psychologically lower 18
the speed because people would feel comfortable traveling at the higher, at excessive speed. Is 19
there any sort of perspective on that? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Mello: So first of all I want to thank you for that comment because one of the reasons we're 2
here this evening is to help craft our message to the community when we go out for the 3
community meetings and this is a very complicated topic and any advice you can give us on 4
how to conduct these meetings and what, how we should cover this information is greatly 5
appreciated. And to answer your question I think one outcome one alternative outcome of this 6
project could be that we decide not to implement the higher speed limits and instead we just 7
establish the target speeds and then we have a clear City policy on how these roadways should 8
be operating, what speeds we should be designing for, and then we can revisit the speed limit 9
discussion after some of these improvements are implemented. 10
11
Chair Alcheck: So I mean I don't know that any of us are really traffic experts with respect to 12
setting speeds. I imagine there’s just like a tremendous amount of analysis on this that would 13
help sort of provide guidance, but I imagine that the reaction I'm having to this notion of 14
increasing speeds only to reduce them is something that you'll see when you go into the 15
community which I think is a good exercise. I would like to hear from anybody else that's 16
interested in commenting on this, but I'll add one more question that I'm interested in getting 17
some feedback on which is there are a number of streets in Palo Alto I can think of West 18
Bayshore for example where there is a… there may even be one on Alma, there is a sort of a 19
speed indication radar billboard, I don't know what you call it, that informs the driver of their 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
speed and kind of has this added effect that once it identifies you as excessively speeding it 1
then flashes your speed in red as opposed to orange or then it reminds you of what the speed 2
should be. I’m, I’d be really curious to know how effective those are and particularly if that is 3
what that falls into the sort of rubric of street enhancements that you would recommend 4
achieve a target speed? 5
6
Mr. Mello: Yes, we call those speed feedback signs. We’re currently inventorying all of those 7
signs. We have quite a few that are malfunctioning currently. So we're inventorying those and 8
we're going to switch over to one particular product that our maintenance crews really like and 9
then after that we're going to look at opportunities to add additional speed feedback signs 10
where we think they're needed. There's a, Chris can jump in, but I think there's a couple mph 11
reduction that you see with those, but I don't think it's a huge factor in reducing speeds. But I 12
don’t know if you have more experience with speed feedback signs? 13
14
Mr. [Tanay]: What you mentioned is a [unintelligible] been shown that to reduce a few miles 15
per hour. I think that those are all non-engineering per se in terms of the target speed we’re 16
recommending engineering measures where we change the roadway as opposed to speed 17
feedback is [unintelligible] non-engineering it’s more of an educational and information. So 18
that’s the difference. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Ok. One more piece of, one more question and another piece of feedback which 1
is I would really love if the information provided included a laundry list of items that would fall 2
into the category of street enhancements to achieve everything from speed not bumps, but the 3
other version of speed humps or whatever it is that you can travel over at the speeds that we're 4
talking about. I think having that laundry list will help the community identify that the ones 5
that they think are not as effective from their perspective, just getting perspective on what 6
items would really upset them and maybe which items are most effective. 7
8
And then my second question is we've got a list of school zones. And I'm wondering if is the 9
state law specific with respect to whether they’re public schools or private schools because I 10
don't see some of our private schools on this list and I'm wondering whether or not they should 11
be? I'm not wondering. I think they should be added because those schools are just as likely to 12
have kids traveling to and from them on foot or by bike and I am having a hard time reconciling 13
why we wouldn't have a 25 mph school speed limit or the 15 which may be a little aggressive, 14
but regardless next to some of our private schools that are on for example Fabian which is got a 15
speed limit of 30 and other parts of Embarcadero. I'm curious to know if there's a reason why 16
those were excluded? 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Mello: The maps that are included in your packet were developed in a as part of a study 1
that was done back in 2012 before I joined the City. I’m not quite sure why private schools 2
were not included. We can look into that and certainly include those as part of this project. 3
4
Chair Alcheck: Is there is it like an entitlement question? Like is the “speed law” that requires… 5
I read this to understand that like if it's a school zone it's required to be 25 in California. Is that 6
not applicable if it's a private school? 7
8
Mr. Mello: We’ll look into that. I can look into it right now actually I have a document in front 9
of me, but we can look into that and get back to you whether it's just public schools or public 10
and private. 11
12
Chair Alcheck: Let's assume for a minute that there is some distinction. I would suggest that 13
when we go to the community we consider widening the application to all of our schools. Ok, 14
does anybody else want to sort of, go ahead. 15
16
Commissioner Fine: Just one comment, Commissioner Gardias is hoping to speak, but you may 17
have to help him out. 18
19
Chair Alcheck: Commissioner Gardias, your light’s not on. Please. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Gardias: Very good. So yeah I have before I just have question, right? So I’d like 2
to understand why on slides when there was an increase of the speed limit which is Slide 3
Number 10 there is an increase on Embarcadero to 30 mph why there is a subsequent slide that 4
talks about installation of the roundabout and some other items that would slow traffic 25 5
mph. I’m not really sure which is which one is which, right? So before I just proceed to my 6
questions I'd like to just understand why those two slides seem to be discrepant? 7
8
Mr. Mello: So Slide 10 shows the results of the engineering and traffic surveys that were 9
completed. So if we were to strictly base our decisions around speed limits on those 10
engineering and traffic surveys and we wanted to enable radar enforcement on Embarcadero 11
Road we would raise the speed limit to 30 miles an hour. The slide that's further back in the 12
presentation is discussing target speeds. And it may very well be that the community thinks 13
that 25 miles an hour is the appropriate target speed for Embarcadero Road. Currently it's not 14
based on the operating speed it's not sending the message to motorists that the speed limit is 15
25 miles an hour. They're feeling comfortable going much faster than that. So if we were to set 16
a target speed we would make the design decisions and implement signing and striping and 17
other geometric treatments that would bring that speed limit back down to 25 miles an hour. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So to answer your question Commissioner Gardias there are two different topics of the 1
evening. One being the speed limit there would be enforceable under state law and the other 2
being the community's preferred target speed for that particular road. 3
4
Commissioner Gardias: Ok. I understand. So just so I understand that you’re not proposing to 5
raise these limits to 30 miles an hour on Embarcadero, right? 6
7
Mr. Mello: No. We're just presenting the options this evening. Ultimately it will be up to the 8
Commissioners to decide what direction they want to give us and then Council as well when we 9
go to them. 10
11
Commissioner Gardias: Ok, very good. Because the idea of raising speed limit on Embarcadero 12
to 30 or even more that was that the idea that originated like many several years ago if I 13
remember. I heard it from someone of course I don’t remember, but you need to be aware of 14
this, right? The community rejected that notion to increase the speed limit and that the reason 15
that it stayed on at 25 per hour. So that’s about Embarcadero. In terms of the… I just want to 16
have my one comment about some of the solutions that you have and (interrupted) 17
18
Mr. Mello: If… if… If I can respond to that first comment? I neglected to mention that these 19
engineering and traffic surveys need to be done every seven years. So there are quite likely 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
was a discussion, a very similar discussion five to seven years ago around this topic or some 1
number of years. And we’ll keep having to have this discussion as we renew our engineering 2
and traffic surveys as required under state law. 3
4
Commissioner Gardias: Ok. So that the second item is about the roundabout that you have on 5
Slide 18 and we had this brief conversation when we talked about the biking routes if you 6
remember a couple of months ago? And I was the only one that spoke about this. So I just 7
would like to make this comment again and make it maybe more clear that about the 8
roundabout. So the reason that I questioned that notion of installation of the roundabout was 9
pretty much that either on the biking route or on the car routes was pretty much that it was 10
based on the cost aspect. I didn't believe in any findings that you provided. It didn't 11
substantiate any observation about increasing the safety of traffic when those roundabouts 12
would be installed because there were no collisions at those places. So I have a concern about 13
proposing those because they will not change anything from the safety perspective. They may 14
of course slow down the traffic, but on the other hand they will burden the community with the 15
expense of installation and maintenance of those roundabouts. So that’s what I would like to 16
advise you about. [Unintelligible] comment that I wanted to make. Thank you. 17
18
Chair Alcheck: Ok. Commissioner Tanaka. I don’t know if that’s still your title, but 19
Commissioner Tanaka. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
Commissioner Tanaka: I think it is. Thank you. So thank you staff for your work on this. I could 2
tell you that the work you did here is something that the community really, really wants. So I 3
think this is definitely good work and it looks like it's good progress forward. So can you talk a 4
bit about some of the work you’re going to be doing in terms of trying to get the outreach to 5
the community and get feedback because some of this stuff is kind of it is the state law, right? 6
So you have to do what you have to do, but what's your thoughts about how to how can you 7
because you’re talking about a lot of streets here. So how do you hold those kind of feedback 8
sessions? 9
10
Mr. Mello: It's still a work in progress. Any ideas that you have typically for a project that has 11
defined project limits we would send mailings to all of the households within a couple blocks of 12
the corridor. In this case we may limit that just to the segments where we'd be recommending 13
speed limit increases. I think we need to have a larger community discussion around the target 14
speed issue and the school zone issue and I think we've struggled a little bit to figure out how to 15
have that community conversation. So that's why we wanted to come to you and Council first 16
to get your input on that. 17
18
Commissioner Tanaka: I think I saw in one of your slides that you're thinking about going to 19
Council November 2016, is that right? So like in a few weeks? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
Mr. Mello: Yeah, we're on the 21st. 2
3
Commissioner Tanaka: Ok. 4
5
Mr. Mello: November 21st agenda. 6
7
Commissioner Tanaka: Because it seems to me that unless you've actually got some feedback 8
from the community isn't it a little bit early to go to City Council on this? 9
10
Mr. Mello: We strategized very early on and we thought that this was a, this is really a policy 11
decision ultimately and we want to go to the community with what we think is reasonable and 12
something that Council would ultimately elect to move forward with. So I think we want to 13
gauge their opinion on what direction they want us to move on this before we go to the 14
community so that we don't mislead the community and go down a road that ultimately may 15
not go anywhere. 16
17
Commissioner Tanaka: Because I would guess that the Council would probably want to do what 18
the committee wants, but the Council needs to know what the community wants. The Council 19
could have a bunch of ideas about like this option or that option, but I think we need we do 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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need community buy in. So I just was wondering whether it might be better to actually get 1
some community outreach, get some feedback, come back to the Commission really and let the 2
Commission kind of work out these issues and then you go to Council with a solid plan that has 3
feedback. 4
5
Mr. Mello: We could certainly come back to the Commission again. We're already on the 6
Council agenda for the 21st. Originally we were going to go in December, but the meeting that 7
we were scheduled for was too full so they moved us to November 21st. 8
9
Commissioner Tanaka: Yeah, I personally think that I mean it looks like you guys did a lot of 10
homework, but I think the key piece missing is community feedback because I have walked up 11
and down all of these streets and I'll tell you some people feel very passionate about this stuff. 12
And I think Council would like to know to hear some of that passion and if you go there with 13
just the technicalities, right, of what's going on it's great, but a lot of the members on these 14
streets have very strong opinions and I think Council will need to have that input to make these 15
kind of decisions [unintelligible] recommendation. So I mean whether you go forward or not I 16
think it might behoove everyone’s time if you actually did the feedback first. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Mello: Yeah. Just I agree and just to clarify the Council item on the 21st is a study session. 1
It's not an action item so they won't be taking any action they'll just be providing us with similar 2
input that you are this evening. 3
4
Commissioner Tanaka: Ok. And then the other thing is: is there any possibility of doing some 5
sort of simulation? So if you actually do some of this like some sort of traffic model and what 6
happens if you actually do some of these things and what happens to does the traffic move 7
over to a side street, right? Like what is there any model you could do so you could see kind of 8
like maybe do some sort of what if scenarios? 9
10
Mr. Mello: The models are not that specific enough. We could do monitoring. So if we decided 11
to implement some traffic calming measures we could monitor the parallel streets and see how 12
much spillover there is. And we typically would do that with any kind of pilot project. 13
14
Commissioner Tanaka: So when you do the community outreach are you planning to also reach 15
not just the main street, but… Ok. So you’re doing the side streets too? Great. The other 16
question is do you know roughly how much enforcement happens on these streets today? Do 17
you have any information on that? Like because I tell you those people the residents that live 18
on these streets that claim there's none. Zero enforcement. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Mello: So I’ll let Sergeant Lee answer that question. 1
2
Sergeant Lee: It's a very good question and it's a question that we've been dealing with since I 3
was on traffic since 2005 as a motor cop and a traffic team supervisor and taking, intaking a lot 4
of those community complaints about speeds within their neighborhoods. So I know. I agree 5
with you, it's a very passionate subject. Currently the panel may be aware that we do not have 6
a traffic team effective with this last fiscal year and that was three officers dedicated to traffic. 7
When I came on board there were seven of us. So the discretion to enforce speed relies now 8
on the patrol officers who are because of staffing doing a lot more with less, so speed currently 9
is being enforced on a priority basis in relation to calls for service and all the other collateral 10
duties that an officer in patrol functions may be faced with at any given time of the day or that 11
week. 12
13
Commissioner Tanaka: Any numbers of like for the streets were studied? How many? Ok, so I 14
think that by the time you go to Council I think that would be a good thing to have because I 15
mean here's how it could play out in the community, you're going to increase the speed limit so 16
we can actually do radar enforcement, right? Where there's no enforcement anyways. You 17
have to think how that goes down with the community, right? What people are going to be 18
thinking about it if that's how it's presented because I mean because it’s not being enforced 19
when we raise the speed limit, right? It's almost encouraging people to go faster, right? So I 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
think so it sounds like this is not just a… there's also a budgetary issue in terms of can it be 1
enforced even if a lot of these things were implemented. 2
3
Sergeant Lee: Right and to mention some of the streets that are segmented and are covered 4
under the survey where radar is permissible some of the other factors that that go into this is 5
only the few number of officers who actually are certified to operate radar and/or lidar devices, 6
but also even if we were able to look at all the citations written for unsafe speed it wouldn't 7
necessarily collate with these areas that we're talking about specifically. It could be outside of 8
the survey. So I don't know if those numbers would be significant enough to garner any sort of 9
direction. 10
11
Commissioner Tanaka: Ok. So I think the other thing I've heard is that sometimes like on the 12
part of Middlefield that’s near Menlo Park that the cars go so fast that you can't stop them 13
safely. Is that true? 14
15
Sergeant Lee: I'm sorry, what segment of Middlefield? 16
17
Commissioner Tanaka: Kind of like University to Menlo Park. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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Sergeant Lee: Right. That is a very troublesome area one of which is because there's no place 1
for a police car to safely identify and have a safe observation point and then because of all the 2
other density of the traffic to actually go out and go after the violator. And that's assuming that 3
they are, the officer is radar or lidar certified and so otherwise we’re relegated to using pacing 4
and that segment of the roadway is just too short to get a safe pace. 5
6
Commissioner Tanaka: Because residents claim that people know that there's no enforcement 7
of speed there and maybe it's true and that so I’m just trying to think of how this all plays out, 8
right? Because it's you can have all the signs you want, but if there is no enforcement it doesn't 9
matter. 10
11
Chair Alcheck: Ok. Commissioner Waldfogel [Note-Vice-Chair] and then Commissioner Fine. 12
13
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Thank you. Actually relative to that last question if you go to Slide 4 I 14
would strongly recommend that in your presentations of this that you somehow shade that 15
segment of Middlefield if it was previously studied that segment from University to Menlo Park 16
because it looks like it's not included in any of the studies. 17
18
Mr. Mello: So I neglected to mention that there were 36 traffic and speed surveys done in 2014 19
and that segment is actually certified for radar enforcement. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Yeah, I believe that. I would just recommend that you mark this map that 2
shows that it was that it studied. 3
4
Mr. Mello: Well it wasn't studied as part of the 70 that we're presenting this evening, but we 5
could add another map that shows the ones that are already certified before this. 6
7
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Let’s do it in different color or something. I mean you don't need to 8
proliferate maps. And I would suggest if you I think you asked a question about how to present 9
some of this to the public. So I'll just make a couple of suggestions about language I would 10
consider using and just you can judge if these are true or not. I mean I would say to the public 11
that you did these studies to improve predictability of travel time. I don't know if that’s true or 12
false, but if it is I would say that, that it was to reduce collisions. Again that seems to be an 13
explicit goal of these studies, but if it isn't don't say it and to allow radar enforcement. But 14
anyway if those things are true those are kind of framing language that you can put around this 15
about why we did this and what the benefits are to the to the public, but I'm sure you have 16
better ideas on how to frame that. So. 17
18
Mr. Mello: Yeah, I would say the last point is true. The first two are not really driving this 19
project. This is really a technical thing that we have to do in order to conduct radar 20
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enforcement under state law. And we’re trying to improve the community conversation by 1
talking about the greater goal of target speed and because going to them and just telling them 2
that we have to do this to do radar for enforcement I think would be a difficult conversation. 3
4
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Yeah, I just think that if we stick with the technical language we're going 5
to we're passing over people's heads. So just finding a way to frame this with more benefits 6
language than functional language is always helpful. And then just one detail question if you go 7
to the chart in the booklet, I’m not sure if you have this and this is the street by street segment 8
chart. Yeah, is it on… it's on Page 13 of the packet. I just have a specific question about 9
Segment Number 2, which is Alma Street from Lincoln to Oregon Expressway. It has a pretty 10
high number of collisions, 138. That's one of the highest numbers in the table and I assume this 11
is because it's a similar condition to Middlefield we have turning movements on and off of Alma 12
from the side streets. And just how do we take that into account as we think about the 13
recommended speed limits? I mean I also notice that there's a 20 percent gap between the 14
85th percentile speed and the recommended speed limit. So just how do we think about a 15
segment like that? 16
17
Mr. Mello: So thank you for pointing that out. I would first like to direct your attention to the 18
collision rate. That's a better measure to look at than just the sheer number of collisions 19
because if you see that's also one of the highest volume segments at 30,000 ADT. I think one of 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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the things we'll do with this data is we're currently ramping up a comprehensive traffic safety 1
program. We've hired a new traffic engineering lead and Ruchika’s actually joined that group 2
as well. And one of the projects they're working on now is the Middlefield Road North segment 3
between Menlo Park and Channing. And after that project starts to wind down we're going to 4
start to look more strategically at the high crash segments of roadway throughout the City and 5
identify exactly what the factors are that are causing those collisions. And we'll be able to use 6
this actually to start that process. 7
8
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: And then just one final question which is: is there any ability in 9
conducting these studies to also count non-motor vehicles? Because I think that would be a 10
great column if that was if that were available in these tables. 11
12
Mr. Mello: So the answer is yes. The reason it's not in this dataset is we used tube counters to 13
capture speed and volumes and tube counters are not very good at capturing cyclists and they 14
can't capture pedestrian traffic at all. When we do turning movement counts which are 15
intersection counts we always include bicycle and pedestrian data, but for this type of study of 16
it would have been difficult to do that. We could have got bicycles, but it wouldn't be that 17
reliable because if they're on the sidewalk they wouldn’t be counted. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: If it’s not possible it's not possible. It’d just be helpful on some of the 1
segments, but thank you. 2
3
Mr. Mello: We can provide that data if we have it from other sources. We just won’t have it for 4
every one of the segments that are in this table. 5
6
Commissioner Fine: Thank you very much for this presentation. I think the Vice-Chair had a lot 7
of good comments on framing in terms of the costs and benefits here. Just in my experience I 8
would actually zoom in on many of these maps and show what the difference is and exactly 9
where. These are pretty high level maps and it would be helpful to really zoom in for folks. 10
Also talk about the benefits as the Vice-Chair mentioned whether it's travel time, whether it's 11
reducing collisions, all that stuff is really important framing. 12
13
Just a few couple questions this kind of gets to the framing issue as well. Are there any 14
additional force minute mechanisms the City could consider whether it's something like 15
bringing back the traffic team or the cameras that capture people as they're speeding and just 16
put those on the table for residents to see what kind of appetite there is. Does the City have 17
any of those speed cameras right now? Is there anything prohibiting us from doing them? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Mello: I believe we can verify those, but I believe that only red light cameras are authorized 1
under California law I don't believe speed cameras are allowed within the State currently. 2
3
Commissioner Fine: Ok. 4
5
Mr. Mello: But we could certainly include a more robust discussion about enforcement when 6
we go to the community. But just to react to your first point I don't know that staff is fully 7
committed to moving all elements of this project forward and I think when we start to talk 8
about cost benefits we're looking for guidance from you as well before we go to the community 9
because I think I have the same question about is there a cost? Does the cost benefit make 10
sense in this case to move forward with the speed limit increases and some of the other 11
elements of this. 12
13
Commissioner Fine: Right and that might be helpful to do for each of these road segments 14
actually, right? And then you can show residents like where the City's threshold is as directed 15
by the Planning Commission or Council. That would be helpful, but right now these tables kind 16
of read as like well people are driving faster so we should increase the speed limit. That's not 17
the best argument to start with. Yeah and then just also just include additional enforcement 18
mechanisms whether it's our Police Department (PD) working on it or additional technologies 19
or designs on these streets that might help residents, just give them something as well. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
Commissioner Rosenblum: So now to get to my first round I asked a few questions and now I’d 2
love to give some feedback on your next stage and the items that you said you'd like guidance 3
on. So first, you don't really have the basis for cost benefit analysis here, but I would suggest 4
that the framing is this whole study the technicality is that you need to do this set the 85th 5
percentile speed in order to be enforceable under California law. But only some stretches 6
perhaps are community priorities to be enforced. So if you're talking about having our scarce 7
policing resources have to be deployed at various places I would suggest that in only a couple of 8
places that is the community really crying out for increased enforcement. And so number one 9
you have a long list of places that you want to set a new speed limit. I would also try to have at 10
least your sense of where staff has gotten feedback from the community where they're looking 11
for increased enforcement. Particularly because you are increasing the speed to match more or 12
less the rate of current traffic which would be counter to when the community is asking for 13
enforcement they're asking you to lower the speed which I know this is maybe a step towards 14
that. 15
16
But number two is I think that then the focus of the conversation needs to be around getting to 17
target speeds as quickly as possible. I know that's your intention. I somewhat disagree with 18
Vice-Chair around saying that the technical aspect of this will go over people's heads. I think it's 19
fairly clear that there's a state law that in order to get in compliance here are some measures 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
we have to do. Don't worry we're not just trying to increase speed throughout town we are 1
trying to do this is step one, but step two we're trying to figure out what the right speed and 2
enforcement level should be for these intersections. Here's our current proposal. And I so I 3
think that staging process could be done crisper upfront, but I would say that for our 4
community anyway I wouldn’t think that that messaging should go over people's heads. But it 5
has to be emphasized that this is a at least two stage process. 6
7
And then the final piece of feedback is I think that people are anxious around accident rates 8
and so I think this information needs to be highlighted a bit better. So for example, I had the 9
same when I was going through the package earlier I had the same question that Commissioner 10
Waldfogel [note-Vice-Chair] had, but then I was looking at gross numbers versus rate. The unit 11
of rate to me is not that transparent. And so just really concentrating in on accident rates is 12
something when the community talks about enforcement I think what people are worried 13
about are accidents. So I would bring that forward and that also is the question that I asked at 14
the outset which is what is relationship between speed and accidents. So you brought up what 15
it means for fatalities, but also what it means for the rate if anything at all. So I would 16
anticipate those questions from the public and have a section around the relationship between 17
speed accidents/safety. And those are all my framing points. Hopefully that's useful guidance. 18
19
Mr. Mello: Yes, thank you very much. It's very useful. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you for your presentation. I my sort of departing comment would be 2
I'd love to see the staff take a little bit more of a bold position on the stated issue of the zero 3
budget for the enforcement team. So I would have had a slide that said we really don't need to 4
spend a lot of time talking about enforcing higher speed limits if the City Council isn't going to 5
create a budget for an enforcement team where we went from seven to three to zero. That 6
shouldn't be something we learn in the question and answer session. That should be like the 7
front page of this whole discussion because if for example there's a large population of 8
individuals who think that there is zero enforcement it's not a thought, it's a fact. And if we're 9
going to entertain even for five minutes this discussion about increasing the speed limits so that 10
enforcement is even possible under the law then we got to hire some traffic cops. So I mean it 11
was a little disheartening to find that out in question and answer because it's like are you 12
kidding me? So anyways I would encourage you guys to put that in your slide packet so that 13
City Council sort of can't ignore it that this conversation is relatively inefficient if we don't talk 14
about budgets. Ok, let's move on to Item Number 5. 15
16
Commissioner Gardias: Hold on a second. If I was talking about the vote I know that we have 17
some difficulties with connecting, but may I still speak? 18
19
Chair Alcheck: Yeah, if you have comments for Item Number 4. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Gardias: That’s correct, yes. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Ok. Go ahead. 4
5
Commissioner Gardias: So a couple of comments. Number one is that when you’re going to 6
work on your study it would be also nice to find out the associated risks so my ask is pretty 7
much that once you're going to just come back to us with after the meetings with the 8
community and some I don't know how you're going to do this. The pilots, are there going to 9
be any pilots or anything like this? We would like to, I would like to at least just understand 10
where’s the risk of implementation because we’re going to depress the car speeds, but there 11
would need to probably this would once you push this way it's going to probably just push out 12
the other way so there would need to be probably some offset and that may result with the car 13
with [unintelligible] being clogged. So my question would be how we going to mitigate that risk 14
of taking longer route to work by a couple of minutes or maybe even more? So my ask would 15
be that when you going to return just please tell us what’s the impact of the study? That's 16
number one. 17
18
Number two is that when I look at slides that provide distribution, the Slide 18, that Vice-Chair 19
Waldfogel was speaking about that distribution would be nice to work this way that distribution 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
is as narrow as possible. So if there is a possibility to find out if there are any options available 1
to discharge cars at the uniform speed as opposed to having the speeds being distributed along 2
the vertical line as it is in this example. So again, the objective should be just to keep the 3
distribution as narrow which would pretty much mean that the cars travel with the most 4
uniform speed. Thank you. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Ok, why don't we take a... why don’t we take a four minute break and reconvene 7
and begin with Agenda Item Number 5? Thanks for your presentation 8
9
Commission Action: None 10
11
THE COMMISSION TOOK A BREAK 12
13
5. Study Session to Review Modifications and Updates to Title 18 to Implement Housing 14
Element Programs and Zoning Code Clarifications 15
16
Chair Alcheck: [recording starts in progress] would be the Planning Code Amendments study 17
session. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jonathan Lait, Assistant Director: Thank you, Chair Alcheck. We're going to, I’m going to ask 1
Clare Campbell who has recently… who's been with the City for some time, but has now 2
switched over to our Long Range Planning Team to help us with our list of policy items to lead 3
you in the presentation and we're here to answer any questions that you may have. 4
5
Clare Campbell, Senior Planner: Great, thank you. Good evening, Commissioners; Clare 6
Campbell, Senior Planner. So tonight we have a collection of proposed code amendments for 7
our zoning code that we'd like to get some direction from you. We’re looking to get some 8
comments and suggestions for our code language so we can bring that forward for 9
recommendation next month. So tonight we're basically focused on four different areas. 10
We've got some housing related amendments, some review process modifications, corrections 11
and modifications to our off street loading and parking standards, and a brief discussion on our 12
Transportation Demand Management (TDM) plan requirements. 13
14
So the first one up today is our housing definitions. So in our Housing Element the City 15
committed to updating these two definitions for transitional housing and supportive housing, 16
to remove the references to multiple family uses. And the text that we're using or that we're 17
proposing is taken directly from the Housing Element program language and it's shown here on 18
our screen and it's also in the staff report. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
The second item is for our housing inventory sites small lot consolidations. With the adoption 1
of our Housing Element the City also committed to meeting specifications of Program H2.1.9 by 2
January 2017 which involves amending the zoning code to create incentives that encourage 3
consolidation of smaller lots that are specifically identified on our housing inventory sites and 4
developed with 100 percent affordable housing units. So here I have a map it's not as clear as 5
I'd like it to be, but I have a separate one if we need to pull that up. But basically here we have 6
the distribution of our housing inventory and we have a cluster in the Downtown, we have 7
some along the El Camino corridor, there's a cluster in the Cal Ave. area, and also along the San 8
Antonio corridor. So there are 27 sites that have been identified as consolidation opportunities 9
and these cluster basically in the Downtown area and near the Fry’s site. So in the Downtown 10
area we've got two lots that are zoned CD and we have 21 lots in South of Forest Avenue 2 11
(SOFA 2) which are RT35. So this is the majority of the lots that have been identified as a small 12
lot opportunity sites for consolidation. So RT is the predominant zone for these properties. 13
14
So the next one is in the Fry's area, we have four CS lots near the Fry's area and so for moving 15
forward we've come up with some suggested standards and incentives for these consolidations. 16
So as far as the standards go basically we're saying we'd like to recommend that these housing 17
inventory sites can be merged with both inventory sites and non-inventory sites. The units 18
have to be deed restricted for a minimum of thirty years as 100 percent affordable housing. 19
We've established or suggested some affordable levels of income for these for ownership units 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and for rental units and we're also suggesting that we use RT35 development standards for all 1
of these project types. For the incentives we're suggesting that the these projects have priority 2
processing for their entitlements, that we streamline the subdivision process for the project, we 3
would establish a legal conforming status for non RT35 lots, we would eliminate parking for 4
small units that are less than 300 square feet (sf), and we would provide a reduction in the 5
required guest parking for the project. 6
7
Alright, so moving on to housing density, so earlier this year we had four bills that were related 8
to density bonus that were adopted and we have some recommended amendments or 9
amendments that we have to comply with. And basically we've got a 20 percent density bonus 10
where at least 10 percent of the total housing units are designated for foster youth, disabled 11
veterans or homeless persons and are offered at the same affordability levels as very low 12
income units and this is AB 2242. Another amendment is to adopt specific procedures and 13
timelines for processing a density bonus application and this is related to AB 2501. And the last 14
one is guidance on what to do you when a density bonus replaces existing housing units and 15
this is related to AB 2556. 16
17
Alright, so the last housing item is a new policy and it's related to converting older hotels or 18
motels to housing units and if we assume that we want to go in this direction we've been 19
thinking about what can the City do to facilitate the change in use. So we know that we have 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
these types of projects we have code required upgrades for life and safety issues that those 1
cannot be waived whatsoever, but we are suggesting to waive some other types of zoning 2
requirements when it when there's a change in use such as changing the parking requirements 3
and for example, open space requirements for residential units. So we would ask the question: 4
what do we do to encourage this type of housing and what would we want in return for this? 5
So some of our suggested terms or requirements for this project would be a 30 year term for 6
affordable housing, 100 percent affordable housing, and priority given to Palo Alto residents or 7
employees. 8
9
So the next item is our first process item and this is regarding approvals. So we have a 10
longstanding practice of requiring all relevant planning entitlements to be approved before any 11
consideration of acting on the associated demolition permit. The zoning code has specific 12
requirements for this when it relates to architecture review applications, but it’s silent on its 13
applicability to any other type of entitlement. So we're looking to update the code to require 14
entitlement approvals prior to related demolition approvals for all projects and not just the 15
architecture review, so just to be explicit about that requirement. 16
17
Ok, so the next one is forwarding entitlements to Council for action. So when a project requires 18
multiple entitlements where the required action is split between the Planning Director and City 19
Council for example, site and design where that needs Council action and a variance which 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
needs a Planning Director's action maintaining separate authority can be a drawback to the 1
overall review of the project. We're suggesting that we make some code changes to allow the 2
Planning Director to forward all relevant planning entitlements to the Council for action where 3
Council action is required for one of those entitlements as a complete package for 4
consideration. So this allows the Council to get a complete picture of what's being proposed for 5
this project and can act accordingly. There are also other scenarios where forwarding projects 6
to Council for action may be recommended such as when projects involve leases or agreements 7
with City owned property and if on a case by case basis when the Director deems it to be 8
appropriate. And we can get into discussion a little bit more about that later. 9
10
Ok, so moving on to TDM plans. We’d like to establish when a TDM plan is required for a 11
project. Our code includes references to TDM plans in association with requested parking 12
adjustments in non-parking assessment areas and we’d like to establish some citywide 13
standards for when a project triggers the preparation of a TDM plan. So some of the 14
recommended thresholds are 100 or more new weekday trips, a.m. or p.m. peak hour or 15
weekend peak hour trips, reduction on onsite parking or in order to support claims for projects 16
for a projects lower trip generation when the applicant claims that. 17
18
And the very last… oh no, next we’re moving on to loading. So our loading table was basically 19
established in 1978. There was a consolidation of the parking chapter to create a one parking 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
chapter information was consolidated from the individual zone districts and basically over the 1
years through formatting changes and updates some information has been lost in the updates 2
and erroneously emitted from this table. So here we have a red line version of the errors that 3
we need to correct. So basically I mean it's pretty straightforward. So somehow we've dropped 4
this upper threshold here for the for this room or area size for this building. So this is to put 5
that back in. We have a threshold here from 0 to 4,999 that was dropped off the table before 6
so we're putting that back in and adding this second level of square footage where it requires 7
one. So this is all what was consistent in the original tables for the loading requirements 8
previously and lower for manufacturing processing. We have the same error that was made 9
when the format was changed for this particular table. 10
11
Alright, so the next loading item is adjustments. So some developments in dense areas like the 12
Downtown can be significantly impacted when required to provide the off street loading space 13
and this space by our code definition is 45 feet long by 12 feet wide and requires a 15 foot 14
height clearance. Staff is proposing to allow the Planning Director the discretion to reduce or 15
modify this loading requirement when conditions are appropriate. And later on we do have 16
some examples of some site plans that we can show you to kind of help with this discussion. 17
18
Ok and then we need to clarify mixed use loading requirements. Our current loading table 19
doesn't specifically have a line item that's for mixed use, but basically we just want to make it 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
clear that loading requirements shall be based on the specific land uses that are being proposed 1
for that project. So it's just a clarification that we’ll change there. 2
3
And the last item is regarding mechanical lifts for the parking. And basically the proposed use 4
for mechanical this is becoming more popular. We're seeing more applicants coming in and 5
suggesting it or wanting to use these types of mechanisms to help satisfy the parking 6
requirements. We've had several projects and maybe in the last five years that we've 7
approved. It's gone through the process and we've approved them. They've all been mixed use 8
projects, residential and commercial, and they've all been projects where these lifts are in a 9
garage facility. So nothing is outside that’s visible. So we'd like to have some parameters in the 10
code to basically allow this type of solution for parking and these are some of our suggested 11
standards for these lifts. So we want to clarify that we would it would be for residential or 12
office land use only, not to be used for guest parking, accessible parking or loading zones, it 13
needs to accommodate a full size sport utility vehicle (SUV), and basically to have some 14
provisions for nonresidential use to have some non-mechanical lift spaces so if someone needs 15
to just pull in and park real quick they have that opportunity to do that. So we can talk through 16
that. 17
18
We can also include in the past with some of the projects that I've personally worked on we've 19
had conditions of approval that there's parking management plans and plans that provide 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
emergency guidelines for when something goes wrong so that way everyone in the building is 1
aware of what they need to do and what, who you're supposed to call when something isn't 2
working the way that it needs to. And we can definitely include provisions in the code to 3
require maintenance and usability for the life of the project. I know that that can be a concern 4
so we can specify that as well. 5
6
Ok, so next steps. So we're looking to get your feedback today for these changes and we're 7
hoping to return in December with some of the supported changes that we're talking about 8
tonight for formal recommendation and ideally we would go to City Council in early 2017 with 9
your recommendations for these code amendments. Thank you. 10
11
Mr. Lait: And Chair we didn’t have a chance to strategize about how we might approach this. 12
So I might unless you have some ideas I might recommend that we go through the items in the 13
staff report starting on packet Page 16, Page 2 of the staff report where we list through Roman 14
numbers perhaps? 15
16
Ms. Campbell: Yes. 17
18
Mr. Lait: The nine proposed amendments. That might provide the process and I would just like 19
to make one other point that and we included some staff report last year there was a little bit 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
of awkwardness and when staff approached this last time and we're, we want to not have that 1
this time around. So I want to be clear that whatever the recommendation is from the Planning 2
Commission that's the recommendation we're going to advance to the City Council. There's not 3
going to be a staff recommendation and a Planning and Transportation Commission (PTC) 4
recommendation. That didn't turn out the way that we thought it would last time and so we 5
want to be making some changes this time around. There is I think one or two state mandated 6
changes. Those ones we do need to move forward regardless of where the PTC may be on that, 7
but we can include the policy conversation in the staff reports. So with that we're here to help 8
with that discussion. 9
10
Chair Alcheck: Alright, so we do have a speaker card so let’s see, Steve Pierce, if you could come 11
up and I’ll give you five minutes. 12
13
Steve Pierce: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I'm Steve Pierce of the 14
Downtown North neighborhood. Like to speak to you for just a few moments about the loading 15
zone changes that are before you and I certainly support what's in the staff report, but I don't 16
think it really goes far enough to cause to kind of remedy a problem I think is in the code. 17
18
Now this off street loading the zones are huge 45 feet long, 12 feet wide, 15 foot vertical 19
clearance and they apply to many uses such as restaurants and retail and so forth. So they 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
really don't apply to a number of the areas that we have in town. So if you consider for 1
example the Apple Store that was built some years ago, spectacular glass building, they being 2
more than 5,000 sf would have been required to have somewhere within those premises a 3
truck loading zone which obviously is absurd. I'm involved in a project on Cambridge Avenue 4
which is recently been rezoned so that the first floor is supposed to be retail and then again 5
now we're supposed to provide a loading zone somewhere within that small footprint which 6
basically is impossible. So while the City on one hand saying hey we want retail here, the 7
loading zone provision makes it impossible to even provide that. The result is you don't do 8
anything because you can't. 9
10
So I would recommend… well, let's put this way I mean the loading zones certainly have their 11
purposes for shopping centers, grocery stores, your large box stores of which I don't think we 12
have any in town. Well, maybe one. So basically we know as Clare mentioned they really don't 13
work in our urban centers. So they don't work in Downtown, there's no purpose for them 14
there. There's alleys, there's off site loading zones. Cal Ave. area really doesn't work and 15
there's probably the other areas in town where it doesn't work either. So what I would suggest 16
is that we actually do a couple things. Number one, with respect to loading zones that we 17
exclude certain areas of town such as the Downtowns that we have and also that we really pick 18
up the need for the loading zones at a much higher threshold where now it's anything over 19
5,000 sf which is a reasonable size restaurant it really needs to be geared more to the grocery 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
store, to the shopping center so we're probably talking 30,000, 50,000 sf and above should 1
have a loading zone and requiring it for at these much smaller levels and areas of the City which 2
are just can't accommodate them basically just pushes a lot of projects through. Well, if you 3
approve this sort of Director approval and having to consider these things a lot of which just 4
don't make sense on the face of it. So I would just suggest that we change the criteria so that 5
this loading zone requirement is made more operable. Thank you. 6
7
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. I do have an idea of how I'd like to do this tonight. And I actually 8
really appreciate you sort of setting the framework for how we're going to get through this 9
process because in the past it's been a little, it has been a little hairy. This is what I would like 10
to do. Since this is going to be a two meeting study session what my preference tonight is for 11
us to go through the items that each of us feels particularly interested in discussing and being 12
very specific about a change that you'd like to see. I'd like to go one at a time and not 13
necessarily item by item. I'm going to let each individual sort of go through the items in this 14
packet that they'd like to comment on. I am hopeful that staff can essentially take notes, 15
copious notes. And what I would like to see if a Commissioner either feels, finds himself in 16
strong agreement with some other comment just make that point. Like oh, I agree with that, 17
I'd like to see that. And if they feel strongly against it make that point and if there isn't a strong 18
opinion about a particular change don't. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
And my response, my request also will be that for example, I imagine maybe some 1
Commissioners will respond to our speaker’s comments. Ideally if staff feels like let’s I’m going 2
to use this as an example, we had a suggestion tonight that the loading sites not apply to 3
certain areas like Downtown. If for example a Commissioner suggests that we adopt that into 4
this study session or that we should pursue that what I'd love to see is staff come back in the 5
follow-up meeting if they believe that that change could result in sort of a negative 6
consequence. Like for example, tonight you don't really know if that is an applicable or suitable 7
adjustment if when we come back in the next study session we could say ok we know we 8
explored this idea of certain zones and here's where we think that could be problematic or 9
here's where it isn’t so that we get sort of immediate feedback on the suggestions we make 10
tonight. Ok, so that's my suggestion. 11
12
I'm going to go first by way of example. And I'm going to speak to the issues that I'd like to 13
speak to and everybody can kind of jump in on their issues. So I'll just reiterate that I think that 14
the comments related to the off street loading made by our guest are interesting to me and I 15
would like to see sort of a little bit broader discussion about whether or not we can eliminate 16
some of those requirements in the certain zones specifically in Downtown so that we can 17
alleviate some of the tougher standards where they really potentially aren't possible. And I 18
don't know that I need to explore the anymore except that if staff feels strongly and what I'll do 19
is after we finish we can have staff respond. Ok? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
The next item I want to talk about is mechanical lifts. I thought it was particularly unappealing 2
for these lifts to only apply to residential and office land uses. I know from personal experience 3
that they can be very effective in hotel uses and so I find that the fact that it's not included as 4
potential uses… I almost think that maybe restricting the use is not a suitable way of doing this. 5
I think we should leave it open and if there is a specific concern that a mechanical lift isn't 6
suitable for a specific use I think we should sort of highlight that as opposed to having to 7
continue to broaden. Well, ok we’ll use them in residential maybe in office. Ok, maybe in 8
hotel. Ok, maybe in retail. I would prefer almost that we eliminate that distinction. 9
10
I felt the same way about the notion of guest parking. I wasn't entirely sure why certain types 11
of users couldn't necessarily use of a mechanical lift. That felt overly restrictive. Even the 12
Bullet 3 about full size utility vehicles I wondered if there wasn't some sort of data where 13
certain populations, our population uses a certain percentage of full size and a certain 14
percentage of small size. Do they all have to accommodate what would be a full size SUV. That 15
seems a little onerous. 16
17
And then I'm going to skip forward the no demolition until replacement project approval; one 18
of the concerns I've had throughout this process of what was initially described as cleaning up 19
the code is that I think sometimes when we attempt to sort of create clarification by subtle 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
adjustments in the language we don't realize that we're actually making policy changes. So I'll 1
give you an example, right now if you don't have a project that's subject to the review you can 2
theoretically get your permit to demolish or even more importantly deconstruct your project in 3
anticipation of approval. And I think the reason why that's the case is because when you know 4
the rules going in your application is more likely to comply with those rules as opposed to with 5
the review board there's so much grey area to how your project could go and it could take 6
months before you have resolution. So having a site that's basically demolished is unappealing 7
in our neighborhoods. I will say this, there we this is an example of an area where I think more 8
thought should take place. Are we theoretically discouraging deconstruction? Deconstruction 9
typically takes a lot longer than demolition. Being able to get started on a project’s 10
deconstruction which is a very green way of dealing with old materials is something that if you 11
can get started with earlier in your process you have an incentive to do it. Time is money when 12
it comes to this process and so if for example you have to wait till the very last minute to 13
demolish your structure you may elect to demolish instead of deconstruct. I think we're 14
creating incentives here. So I would love to see us either table that one or spend a little time 15
talking about that. 16
17
And those are my comments on the items. So what I'd love to see is you guys light up the 18
board and we and go through your things. If you have specific comments just make them and 19
we'll give staff an opportunity I think at the end of this first round to sort of respond so that you 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
can kind of understand where we're at. And then if we need to we can do more discussion and 1
then finally we can let staff come back to us in the following study session. Ok, Commissioner 2
Rosenblum. 3
4
Commissioner Rosenblum: Thank you. I'll try to use this process. We’ll see how I do. I want to 5
divide this list into big things and small things. And I agree with the comment that these for the 6
most part are not wording changes. These are all kind of big items. So just I know that we had 7
the discussion before. 8
9
Mr. Lait: We did. 10
11
Commissioner Rosenblum: And I don't want to revisit it. 12
13
Mr. Lait: I just want to so on this process I want to… I hope there's an opportunity for a little bit 14
of give and take because my concern is we're going to hear from all six of you about something 15
that I might want to clarify so we don't have to have that conversation. 16
17
Chair Alcheck: Absolutely, if you have a clarification just jump in. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Lait: Great, thank you. And just on that point we were, I feel like we were clear in the 1
report summary we're not expressing the... we don't have the position that these are minor 2
tweaks. I mean 80 percent of them, 70 percent of them may be, well actually less than that I 3
mean there may be a I’m just picking a number. Like 20 percent may be like legitimate code 4
errors that we just need to fix. There's another percentage that reflect City policy and how 5
we've done things. And that’s we're not do anything really new, we’re just memorializing how 6
we've done it. And then there are definitely some new concepts that we're introducing and we 7
talked about that. And we say that there are new policy new initiatives related to affordable 8
housing and transportation management plans and so forth. So I agree, some of these things 9
aren't little tweaks. 10
11
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok. So in my category of really big things I think that the City's 12
affordable housing crisis and housing in general is top of the list we look at our City’s citizen 13
survey around greatest source dissatisfaction is the affordability and availability of housing. So 14
the two items the consolidation of small lots to encourage denser affordable housing units I'm 15
quite supportive of this and the map identifying the actual places they all seem to be clustered 16
around our two major transit hubs. The item I would suggest for consideration by Council is to 17
have and one of the big incentives is that units under 300 sf are exempt from parking 18
requirements regardless of number of bedrooms. I would like to see that increased to 500 sf, 19
300 sf is an extraordinarily small unit and again we're building affordable housing close to 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
transit. It's a significant incentive to give a parking reduction and this one would be in 1
combination with the TDM measures that we’ll talk about in one moment. 2
3
The second implementation of state law density bonus 20 percent where at least 10 percent of 4
total housing units are designated for foster youth, disabled veterans, homeless people, 5
etcetera. My gut on that is given the nature of these units a 20 percent bonus may still not 6
make it attractive to build these units for this population. This is very low income units and so 7
again my advice to Council would be consider to go up to 40 percent or at least study that, to 8
study the economics of building something with 20 percent bonus for very low income and that 9
you may have to increase the density bonus. 10
11
TDM I think is the last of the really big ones to me. I like the staff suggestion which is 100 net 12
new trips fires off the TDM requirement. The advice that I would have as part of the packet 13
that goes to Council is to study what San Mateo did. So if San Mateo has implemented 14
something like this around basically what measures seem sufficient in order to basically you're 15
having TDM measures in place in exchange for some sort of parking reduction I think is part of 16
the intent of this. That you're going to have to have some measures in place in exchange for 17
that the benefit is that you build fewer parking spaces. And so my advice is I don't have any 18
specific input on levels, but that San Mateo has gone through this process quite recently and so 19
for Council to consider that would be germane information. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
And then the things I think are a little bit smaller, I agree with our Chair for the most part on the 2
use of mechanical parking except on two items. I agree with him that we should not restrict 3
use types meaning I see no reason why hotels or auto dealerships, etcetera wouldn’t benefit 4
from mechanical parking. However, I do agree with staff’s recommendation that you have to 5
have normal guest parking of people coming in and out I think it's a serious impediment to have 6
100 percent mechanical. And I also think that we do need to accommodate full sized SUVs and 7
not get too fancy around having different proportions of different kinds of mechanical lifts that 8
support different sides of cars. 9
10
The loading zone I am persuaded by our speaker that there are certain parts of town and 11
certain size of buildings where it doesn't make sense and undermines other ordinances like our 12
want for retail in the Downtown cores and I understand that and agree that that's an important 13
distinction and would encourage staff to look at exemptions for certain areas for certain types 14
of uses. 15
16
And then the final one that I think is a little bit niche is around the hotel conversion for 17
affordable housing. This seems to make sense to me. It seems to have been done once. Staff 18
doesn't think that's necessarily going to be done quite often, but has identified seven other 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
sites. The incentives seem to make sense to me. So this is one I don't have any… I would pass 1
this one. That’s it. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Thank you. That was excellent. Commissioner Fine. 4
5
Commissioner Fine: So thank you very much to staff for this. I was particularly pleased to see 6
some of the small lot of maps. That was actually really helpful to envision what those changes 7
might look like. Some information that might help us make a decision here on 8
recommendations or for Council; how many of the loading area exceptions have been made 9
across the City in the past few years? Are they concentrated in the Downtown area? I was 10
persuaded by the speaker and by my colleagues here. I’d just like to know what are the 11
exceptions there? Why have they been made? What are the specifics? 12
13
On terms of lifts I agree about the additional uses, I'm just wondering how they've been used at 14
all in Palo Alto. Do you guys, do any of you know of mechanical lifts used in the City so far? 15
16
Ms. Campbell: We have, so we have some projects that have been built. One’s across the 17
street, the 240 Hamilton. So that one has a unique system where it's not actually it's an 18
elevator so you drive in there's an elevator that takes you down into the basement and it has a 19
turnaround system that helps the car get turned around and you can come back out and you 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
can drive out. So that's one example of a mechanical assisted parking system. There's another 1
project at 102 University where that also has a lift. You park, you drive in and then the lift will 2
take you down into the basement where it's a full parking lot for cars. And that's also a mixed 3
use building just like 240 Hamilton. 611 Cowper that is a mixed use project where they've 4
added lifts, a few lifts, so basically it's just the two and it just goes down. I have a couple 5
pictures of what these lifts generally look like, but and they have that it's not a full load of lifts 6
like against a wall or something like that. But there is the 2500 El Camino project that's a 7
housing project and they have a significant number of lifts that they're using for their housing 8
parking requirements. And they’re actually staggered like you've got one set against the wall 9
and another set so you actually have to drive through two sets of or if you’re in the back you 10
could drive through the two. So we do have projects that we've reviewed that we've approved 11
lifts for. 12
13
Commissioner Fine: It would be nice just to have a quick index of that for those things. Two last 14
points. So one TDM, there may be something in there in terms of when we're triggering TDM 15
for that user or entity or building to look at the Transportation Management Association (TMA) 16
and see if there's any way to opt in to some of their projects, just kind of backfill on the efforts 17
the City's making with the TMA. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
And the last one is kind of on the replacement projects. So I've heard from some folks that 1
generally after the first round of plan checks you're still allowed to go to the Chief Building 2
Official to get your demo permit and this can cut a lot of time off the project as a whole. I just 3
want to make sure we retain that flexibility here. That if you're going through plan check you 4
would still get your demo permit if things look good. And that's all for me. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. Commissioner Tanaka. 7
8
Commissioner Tanaka: Yeah, thank you. So… yeah so… ok, yeah so I agree with the comments 9
about the lifts. I think in general it makes better utility of the land so it makes total sense. So 10
what the parts that I thought I wanted to have more discussion on is around the fact or around 11
the proposal to have as you consolidate small lots to make it 100 percent affordable housing 12
and we certainly have affordable housing crisis here, but some of these locations are actually in 13
areas where there's retail and I think it can't be 100 percent because I think if you convert like 14
especially ground floor to housing that could be a bit of an issue. So I think for areas there are 15
in retail areas we need to actually have some retail facing businesses because it really hurts the 16
other retailers around there. So I think that's important. I don’t know if staff has any 17
comments on that? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Lait: So what staff is contemplating here is the reason this is before us is because of the 1
Housing Element policy that was adopted and the requirement is that in the Element is that it's 2
for we do this to accommodate 100 percent affordable housing. So the question that we're 3
asking ourselves is the question that you've asked us which is: does that preclude an 4
opportunity for some kind of retail mixed use component? I do think housing projects with 5
mixed use sometimes they get a little more challenging on the financing and that might be a 6
reason why it was discouraged, but we can take a look at that and then we can also take a look 7
at this in the context of the other work that we're doing right now with retail preservation and 8
our expanding of the ground floor protection to make sure that we're not having a conflict 9
between that effort and this one. 10
11
Commissioner Tanaka: Yeah. I mean because I think for retail especially we have blank spots 12
(interrupted) 13
14
Mr. Lait: Right. 15
16
Commissioner Tanaka: In the retail for frontage, right? It’s just not good. You don’t want to do 17
that. 18
19
Mr. Lait: Right. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Tanaka: So. 2
3
Mr. Lait: Ok. 4
5
Commissioner Tanaka: I think it's a intention, but I think you have to also think about what 6
happens, right, to retail. I think the other aspect is converting the hotels to housing. So hotels 7
we get quite a bit of money from, right? From the hotel tax essentially. So it doesn't sound like 8
this is going to impact [unintelligible] it’s not going to have a really big impact or not maybe you 9
could tell me, how many properties could be affected by this? 10
11
Ms. Campbell: In our analysis of the hotel properties there's probably just a handful like maybe 12
six or seven sites that we think that maybe are in a older condition that they might have 13
consideration for taking advantage of this change in use. 14
15
Commissioner Tanaka: Ok, because hotels are top three revenue generators for the City and 16
right now we’re in kind of a booming economy, but it's not always going to be like this and their 17
might be a time when we actually want that revenue. And if you convert it to housing we lose 18
it forever. So I think that's something we have to consider as well. So how many rooms are we 19
talking about? You said a handful of properties, how many rooms? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ms. Campbell: I’ll look it up in a sec, thanks. Ok so the total for the rooms in Palo Alto that we 2
have available now is 2,133. 3
4
Commissioner Tanaka: 2,000 rooms? 5
6
Ms. Campbell: So that's total, all hotels. So these represent roughly 250 rooms. 7
8
Commissioner Tanaka: 250 rooms, ok. So I’m going say (interrupted) 9
10
Ms. Campbell: That's roughly 10 percent. 11
12
Commissioner Tanaka: Ok. Ok, so how much of a revenue loss is that? So we take our hotel tax 13
times the average rate of room times… what would that be in a yearly number? 14
15
Mr. Lait: Great. In this what you're asking for basically is an economic analysis of what this 16
impact may have if we were to go forward with that and we don't have that information today 17
and I do need to note that Transient Occupancy Tax (TOT) revenues are protected and we can't 18
share with the public that information. But the bigger issue is that you don't want to advance a 19
policy to the Council without knowing what the economic implications are and I think that 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
might be a comment we hear further on in the discussion. So it may be that this one requires a 1
little bit more research and analysis before we advance it on to Council. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Before we sort of leave this topic can either one of you sort of talk about how 4
this because I the way I understood this is this was a very unique amendment that sort of 5
specifically applied to this specific situation. That's how I read it. And so I'm wondering if I just 6
want to if you guys could provide a little more clarity on how you got to this specific notion. 7
8
Mr. Lait: Yes. So this was this concept comes about from a recent article that you may have 9
read where a local building used as a, approved as a hotel and still considered a hotel for 10
planning purposes was… a deal was made with the between a third party and the property 11
owner to rent out those spaces for low income housing. And what we were talking about when 12
this conversation was going on with this with the individual was gosh, it's kind of a shame 13
because we're not going to get any credit for providing low income housing for this use because 14
we still consider it a hotel. And the reason we consider it a hotel is because that conversion to 15
residential would have required parking and it wouldn’t have met different standards. 16
17
And so and the hotel I’m talking about is Hotel California. And so this isn't just for Hotel 18
California though it in theory could apply for it, but that type of hotel that you we see in Palo 19
Alto and we think there's about a half dozen of these kind of if you imagine that as a profile or a 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
prototypical type of hotel that we have in the City then we thought it would be an interesting 1
policy conversation to advance to this body and then on to Council. Is this something where if 2
it didn't have a significant impact to our TOT revenues and impact our that revenue stream is 3
there a good opportunity for here for us here to provide affordable housing, get credit for it in 4
the eyes of Department of Housing and Community Development (HCD), and in doing so we 5
would just we would be yielding on a couple of zoning issues which wouldn’t really change how 6
the building exists on the land today. They just don't provide additional parking and maybe 7
they have to do some egress or access to the building for stairways and things like that and we 8
would say ok if that's the case we would look favorably upon providing that access and so we 9
may have to make some deviations from the code. There’s also open space and some other 10
things, but this is a new policy initiative. It’s an interesting concept and we also recognize that 11
there may be some more work that we need to do on this before we move it forward, but we're 12
we welcome the Commission's comments. 13
14
Chair Alcheck: Do you have any more comments on that? 15
16
Commissioner Tanaka: Yeah I just… yeah, I think that so hotels tend to be in kind of busy 17
locations, right? And they definitely tend to be in different locations, in busy visible locations, 18
and I think what residential tends to be is not necessarily that. It tends to be in other areas. So 19
I think that I would definitely love to learn more about how this works, what projects are 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
affected, [honeymoons] what the revenue impact is because I think that at this I think it’s 1
definitely a noble goal, but I think we have to be careful as to when we lose revenue generating 2
properties. 3
4
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. Commissioner Gardias, would you like to? 5
6
Commissioner Gardias: Yes, thank you very much. So I will add to the discussion, but I will 7
share some other items, right? So when I was looking and thinking about this chapter about 8
the hotel conversion I had similar feelings that my colleagues had and I pretty much would 9
require that would go forward some analysis that would prove truly that the objective or the 10
noble goal is truly supported with some fiscal analysis of the all the type overthrow of the other 11
on the other hand there is there is a question about what could be on the site. Also the other, 12
on the other hand there is a question about what could be on the site if that hotel investment is 13
replaced by something else. So I don't believe that we can just tweak it in a vacuum because if 14
there is always opportunity to build some more affordable housing on that site and then maybe 15
even have more appropriate units then the hotel ones that maybe not are appropriate for all 16
the types of populations that we would like to have in there. So that’s about this point. 17
18
If I may just go to the other one I have a question about the housing related definition and the 19
change that was that it made for the Paragraph 135.5 and 138 before I proceed with my 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
question. So there is a change that calls to remove that multiple family use in both cases and 1
replace it with the residential use of property. What’s the intention of those changes? 2
3
Cara Silver, Senior Assistant City Attorney: Thank you, Commissioner Gardias; Cara Silver, Senior 4
Assistant City Attorney. So these changes are something that are required by state law. The 5
state law says that cities in their housing elements need to provide for supportive housing and 6
transitional housing along the same rules that apply to all residential neighborhoods. So our 7
current code permits supportive housing and transitional housing only in multifamily and 8
residential zones. And so we need to now just align our local law with the state law 9
requirement that requires that this housing also be permitted in single family neighborhoods. 10
So we agreed to implement this state law change in our Housing Element and the Council 11
adopted this Housing Element and directed us to do it. And this ordinance is just implementing 12
that prior directive. 13
14
Commissioner Gardias: So what I would like to understand if that change would have any 15
impact on the code compliance because California has some codes that are specific for the 16
multifamily housing. So if we adopt this change would this would the code would be 17
disregarded or they would that they still apply? Because those would be truly multifamily 18
housing, right? That’s what we are going to have in those area regardless that they would be 19
called differently. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ms. Silver: Right. So if supportive housing and transitional housing is implemented in the single 2
family neighborhoods they need to occupy single family dwellings in a similar manner as other 3
single family dwellings are occupied. So if there are… you can't subdivide a house into separate 4
units because that would be converting a single family home to a multifamily home, but 5
provided that these types of housing are contained in a in a single family dwelling they really 6
are very similar uses to other comparable properties. So that's really the intent of the state 7
law. 8
9
Commissioner Gardias: Ok, very good. I just was looking for more understanding of this so 10
thank you very much Cara. So I'd like to move go move to the off street loading requirements 11
and a question I have is very simple. If we're going to change the bracket and then we going to 12
have we’re going to insert that omitted 0 to 4,999 sf requirement will there be any properties 13
that would be relieved of this out of this requirement after this change? 14
15
Mr. Lait: So Jonathan Lait, the Assistant Director; so Commissioner Gardias when you say 16
relieved I’m trying to understand what you mean by relieved. 17
18
Commissioner Gardias: So the question I have, right, because right now in the code we have 19
that there is the one loading space required for up to 5,000 sf. If we're going to change the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
code to zero are there any properties that because of this historical [unintelligible] we’re 1
burdened with this requirement now under the change would be relieved from the 2
requirement. 3
4
Mr. Lait: So thank you. I think I understand what you're saying. So in in the past if there were a 5
project the short answer is yes. If in the past there was a project that we required an offsite or 6
an onsite loading zone because it was between zero and 4,999 sf then yes by changing that 7
they're no longer required to have that loading zone. And our perspective on that is they 8
shouldn’t have ever been required to have that loading zone because that's the way the code 9
was originally drafted. This is a formatting error and we believe that the loading zone for that 10
size building shouldn’t be required, at least historically it has not been. The intent has been 11
that it has not been required. 12
13
Commissioner Gardias: Understood. But the question was pretty much are there any physical 14
properties that we can list today that are under this requirement, this erroneous requirement? 15
16
Mr. Lait: There may be. I don't know because this error occurred back in what was it 1992. So 17
it’s (interrupted) 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Gardias: My let me just get where I am getting to, right? If there are any if we 1
make this change probably it would be proper to also follow up and then identify if there are 2
any properties that are currently meeting this requirement and then follow up with the owner 3
and then allow them to remove this requirement or convert the space to something else. 4
5
Mr. Lait: So thank you. I have the comment written down. 6
7
Commissioner Gardias: Ok. So the next question that I have is about… if I may come back to 8
this? Let me just speak to the lift. So that’s a third item that you're proposing to change. So in 9
terms of the lift in that preamble or in the paragraph following it’s on Page Number 21. In the 10
requirement that the mechanical lift may be used to satisfy off street parking requirements 11
subject to approval by the Director or City Council. I'd like to propose that there is a change of 12
this language to some performance that would need to be attained by the property owner. 13
This way it would relieve the owner from the requirement to seek the Director or the City 14
Council approval or review and approval for this change. It would make it may be simpler and 15
easier for the owner to implement as opposed to just going through the process and be a 16
subject of the of maybe various factors, judgmental factors. 17
18
Chair Alcheck: Commissioner Gardias can you, would you mind actually repeating the specific 19
suggested language? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Gardias: Yeah, so what the proposal is like this to change the requirements of 2
the approval by the Director or City Council to the performance base of the site that it would 3
have to meet when it has mechanical lift. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: Which paragraph are you suggesting be changed? 6
7
Commissioner Gardias: So under it’s on Page Number 21 under the title Number 4, mechanical 8
stacker and lift. There is a paragraph that starts with mechanical lift may be used to satisfy and 9
then it ends with the following provisions. So I would propose to change the part of this 10
paragraph that talks about the approval of the Director or City Council to the performance 11
metrics that this site would have to meet. 12
13
Mr. Lait: So I can speak to that. The reason we have that… so there are two entities that 14
approve projects, discretionary projects, in Palo Alto it's the Director of Planning and 15
Community Environment and the City Council for some applications or on appeal of certain 16
applications. So it's pretty standard language that we say these lifts are approved subject to 17
the review of the Director. We review every project that's submitted to the City and it's just 18
pretty standard language that we include that. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Gardias: Ok, I totally understand this, right? But for the ease of the developer or 1
the owner of the property (interrupted) 2
3
Mr. Lait: Ok, so (interrupted) 4
5
Commissioner Gardias: I thought it would be may be easier for them if we just tell them that 6
pretty much that requirement is of this that we're not uploading or unloading the car or parking 7
or bringing up back to the street the cars, they pretty much they cannot [unintelligible] blow up 8
the street. They, this needs to be done in the in some indentation so pretty much it doesn't 9
stop the pedestrian or the vehicular traffic from continuing. So I think that this would be the 10
performance threshold. 11
12
Mr. Lait: So if I can I think Commissioner Gardias the interest that perhaps you were speaking to 13
a moment ago was that it's not an ask of the Director for an adjustment, but rather a right that 14
somebody can do this. And I think that's an important conversation that I think the Commission 15
should discuss. We would be interested in getting guidance from the Commission on that. It 16
does have implications on how an applicant would be designing their project at the conceptual 17
stages and could have some implications that might be better addressed early on. They would 18
be able to go forward with a certain amount of understanding if it were by right. Obviously 19
there's a little more uncertainty if there's a discretionary component. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: Commissioner Gardias I think what we'll do is we'll give other individuals an 2
opportunity if they wish to to sort of reiterate their support for that. So why don't we move 3
on? 4
5
Commissioner Gardias: Ok. 6
7
Chair Alcheck: Do you have any other items that you'd like to touch upon? 8
9
Commissioner Gardias: Yes I do, but if you want to move on (interrupted) 10
11
Chair Alcheck: No, I mean I'd like you to move on to the next item. 12
13
Commissioner Gardias: Oh you want me to move on? 14
15
Chair Alcheck: Yeah, we’ve made a note of it and then we’ll give others an opportunity to 16
comment on your comment on your language recommendation. 17
18
Commissioner Gardias: Ok. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: So I'd like you to move on to the next item on your list. 1
2
Commissioner Gardias: Just a moment I'm going through my notes. 3
4
Chair Alcheck: That’s fine, take your time. 5
6
Commissioner Gardias: Also there is another comment that I had to the Section 18.52.080e, a 7
modification to off street loading requirement. It’s on Page 20. So my proposal is that is to 8
notify PTC writing within the 30 days before granting such exceptions and this is to pretty much 9
to allow Commission if that is, if that review under this paragraph the Director may modify the 10
quantity or dimensions of off street loading requirement. It would allow the Commission to 11
pretty much keep track of any specific exceptions that were done for the off street loading. 12
13
Mr. Lait: So if I’m understanding it, it's related to the off street loading and wherever there is a 14
modification made or granted by the Director that the PTC be notified within a certain number 15
of days. Is that? 16
17
Chair Alcheck: Yeah, 30. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Lait: Ok, 30. Ok. So yeah, I mean that can certainly be a thing that be we discuss. I will tell 1
you that there's a lot of items that we report out on and we're not hitting that 100 percent. So 2
unless we’re really critical to do that I would have some concerns. 3
4
Commissioner Gardias: Ok, thank you. And then just going back to the item about mechanical 5
lifts that we discussed I propose to add a paragraph about unloading the impact on the 6
adjacent streets. I don’t have a precise language, but pretty much there would have to be a 7
requirement that unloading or loading the cars on the lift, right, should have very limited and 8
just it would need to be somehow quantified impact on the adjacent street. And that goes back 9
to the comment that I made before so the traffic is not blocked extensively. 10
11
The next question that I, now I have a question about Paragraph 5 under the same section of 12
the lifts, the mechanical stopper and lifts. It just talks about the Paragraph Number 5 it talks 13
about if the spaces are not independently accessible for individual user a parking management 14
plan should be prepared for review and approval and approval that details the operations, 15
emergency procedure, and appropriate contact. So I am not really sure if that need to be, if 16
there needs to be a plan that needs to be reviewed. I propose just to change it to reduce it to 17
the requirement that such plan needs to be prepared or need to be, needs to exist. I think that 18
this would be left between to resolve between the owner of the property and the users of the 19
parking. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: Ok. 2
3
Commissioner Gardias: That’s it. Thank you very much. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: Ok, before I call on Commissioner Tanaka I just I want to shed a little light about 6
how I’d like this to work. Ideally in places where you haven't gotten a specific recommendation 7
on language I'd like you to create a placeholder. I’ll give you an example; Commissioner 8
Rosenblum suggested exploring the idea of increasing the percentage for the density, right? 9
What I would like you to do is if he didn't provide specific language, you provided sort of 10
general guidance there. I'd like staff to explore that concept and if we, if staff can't get to a 11
place where they can give sort of specific new idea or response to that what I’d like them to do 12
is create a placeholder. Similarly for next meeting, for our next time we agendize this topic… 13
similarly in the suggestion here where Commissioner Gardias specifically said he doesn't really 14
have language the comment that he made just before this last comment about he doesn't really 15
have specific language for how he would word this, what I’d ideally like to do is if staff doesn't 16
sort of appreciate his goal and create an opportunity for a little sort of placeholder that we… of 17
specific language they could create a placeholder about potentially achieving his goal. And 18
what I would ideally like is that at the next time we review this packet if individual 19
Commissioners have specific ideas of specific language that they spend the time and they come 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
to that meeting with that language and ideally what we'll do is we will review these ideas with 1
that specific language and we can quickly up or down vote across the board how we feel about 2
it. 3
4
So I don't intend for tonight for example for us to all get on the same page about whether SUVs 5
have to be specifically lifted. I would like us to have sort of a discussion in general based on the 6
feedback you've got and then if somebody wants to make specific changes to language next 7
time we’ll say hey, anybody in favor of this… That will actually give the opportunity for anybody 8
that's paying attention to this discussion to come back and opine on some of these changes and 9
provide any of their specific language edits. Ok, so let's keep going Commissioner Tanaka. 10
11
Commissioner Tanaka: Yeah actually I had another thought about hotels being converted into 12
affordable housing. So instead of taking a old rundown hotel and leaving it as an old run down 13
hotel that now has residential units maybe what a better idea or something that staff could 14
consider and maybe flush out this idea fully is maybe some sort of density bonus where if 15
because there's actually a lot of hotels now that actually have a mix of hotel plus residential. 16
And then I think but the nice thing about hotels is the rooms are actually kind of small. They 17
are by nature generally small compared to a housing unit. And so I think Commissioner Fine 18
and myself talked a lot about micro units. So maybe this is an area to actually explore where 19
you can get a density bonus if you actually have kind of a mix of hotel units where we're not 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
going to lose the hotel revenue, but we get more affordable units. And it’s more affordable 1
because units are smaller and inherently they will be more affordable and they're going to be in 2
kind of a busy transit areas because that’s where most hotels are. And so I'm just trying to 3
think about kind of a more of a win-win solution where instead of just keeping a old rundown 4
hotel an old rundown hotel that's now housing units it's at least still a revenue generator and 5
yet it’s also providing affordable housing. So I’d like to throw this idea out there and maybe it's 6
something that could be developed further as we get to our next meeting. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Commissioner Waldfogel [note-Vice-Chair]. 9
10
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Thank you. Let's see, I have a couple questions for staff. One is in 11
districts with that where we might exempt loading areas would those properties be entitled to 12
a street loading area? Maybe time of day street loading area or is that something we'd have to 13
think about relative to this? 14
15
Mr. Lait: So thank you, Commissioner or Vice-Chair. We are not proposing to exempt loading 16
zones from geographic areas in the City. And that it is not our interest that we understand the 17
public speakers (interrupted) 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Yeah well if we were to contemplate that, would that be a feasible 1
tradeoff if we were to allow street loading areas say 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. or something like that? 2
I just wonder if that's a possible tradeoff we could make? 3
4
Mr. Lait: It is. I think it would require more study and exploration than we were contemplating 5
for this particular ordinance, but it doesn't mean we need to abandon the thought. I mean we 6
could (interrupted) 7
8
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Yeah, no I don't want to push you into more work, but I would hate to 9
just see loading turn into something that just blocks the street. So. 10
11
Mr. Lait: Again our, I kind of feel like our recommendation addresses the issue of graphic areas. 12
We have projects that have been reviewed in the Downtown area for instance where we've 13
made the determination that on site loading was not practical due to urban design 14
considerations or the availability of on street loading or an alley. And so we are already doing 15
this and what we're trying to do is memorialize our practice. 16
17
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Ok. That's great. On the demo permit question on the staff report talks 18
about avoiding vacant lots or preventing vacant lots as an objective of this change and I support 19
that objective although I'm not quite sure that this is the perfect tool to get there. I mean in old 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Palo Alto I can think of three demos that have resulted in multi-year vacant lots. I can just think 1
of one 5 plus year stalled project on Mariposa Street. And so we're trying to reduce vacant lots 2
I would just encourage you to bring something forward that actually goes after vacancy because 3
I'm not sure this is either necessary or sufficient, but just a thought on that. 4
5
On the Housing Element small lot consolidation I think that any feedback on just what will 6
happen if we make these changes. Do we, have we talk, have we reached out to any of the 7
property owners? Do we think that these incentives will cause anything to happen? I mean I 8
would just hate to go down this track if nothing will happen. So it’d be great to get some 9
positive reinforcement just to know that whatever we do will matter. 10
11
I agree with several of my colleague’s suggestion on hotels that we need a economic impact 12
study on the TOT. Ironically I can think of two cases where low income housing has been 13
converted to hotels, but now we're thinking about the reverse case. So that's a I'm not sure 14
how many more of those we'll see. 15
16
Then on everybody's favorite topic mechanical lifts, seems to have been a popular one. My 17
view on this is that it feels a little bit like it's still early days with this technology. We're tying 18
this to buildings have 60 to 100 year life spans. We don't really know about the life spans of the 19
technology. So I would strongly encourage you to what you might want to do is have less 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
prescriptive or proscriptive language here, but be thinking about how do we learn more about 1
this? How do we try this? How do we set up performance requirements that ensure that these 2
will function for the life of the project? They that they'll do the things that we are saying here? 3
The other comment I have is I am uncomfortable with authorizing these for outdoor use. I 4
think indoor use only may be a reasonable first step to take with mechanical lifts so that would 5
be the other thing that I would explore. And it doesn't sound like there have been any cases 6
where applicants have requested an outdoor lift to date. Is that true? 7
8
Ms. Campbell: I don't know if anything has been requested, but I don't think anything’s been 9
approved. 10
11
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Yeah. 12
13
Ms. Campbell: I can say that. 14
15
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Yeah, so I mean I think until we know more until we sort of know more 16
about how this ties into architectural review it's really hard to say if this is something that that 17
we want to do at this point. I mean just again I just want emphasize it feels like early days with 18
this technology and I would love to learn more. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Ok. So I want to be really clear the goal is not to sort of cut anybody off or not 1
give anybody an opportunity to speak. I do want to sort of highlight something that Assistant 2
Director commented on which is that some of these topics may have large policy implications. 3
And to the extent that when we meet next we feel like some of them really need a little bit 4
more extensive study I hope that we will feel comfortable tabling those and moving forward 5
the suggestions that we are comfortable moving forward and that's really the goal. I would like 6
us sort of perfect is the enemy of good here. So I would like us to accomplish as much as we 7
can and if there are items that we feel like we need to spend more time on we will identify 8
those in our next meeting as items that we just don't feel comfortable moving forward and 9
we’ll set those aside. 10
11
I also just want to acknowledge that Commissioner Waldfogel [note-Vice-Chair] made a really 12
great point here which is that the concept of using prescriptive language on items that are so 13
new to this to the area is I think something that I personally would love to see less of. It's an 14
opportunity for us to create. I know we always want to sort of protect ourselves from some 15
result we can't imagine, but yeah, this technology is new and particularly with parking I feel like 16
what we're going to see in the next 10 to 15 years is such a dramatic change in our relationship 17
with cars that it's this is and car ownership and car sharing that I almost it’s hard to imagine 18
that anything that we do today or even next year could literally be relevant in 15 years. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ok. I want to give anybody else an opportunity to make a comment about specific language. 1
Commissioner Gardias, do you have something you’d like to say? 2
3
Commissioner Gardias: Yes I’d like to talk to a different paragraph. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: Please do. 6
7
Commissioner Gardias: But also for the record, right, I mean I just I think that the technology on 8
the [auto league] has been for the last 60 years and I think that in terms of the maturity it being 9
popular at many places around the world I think that maybe we should be open to move 10
forward in some areas of Palo Alto it may serve us better. But the comment that I want to 11
make is about the combination of the lots. And this is the, this is Housing Element the small lot 12
consolidation 23. I remember when we talked about the Housing Element in 2014. We 13
[unintelligible] policy requirement and I'm totally conscious that we need to pretty much meet 14
our own obligations and do something with this because that’s the goal that we our goal that 15
we want to obtain. But what is amazing here is pretty much some nods of approval for the 16
small property owner that we, that would be a subject of this consolidation. We are, we have 17
this policy that would make it easier to consolidate the lots, but we have still number of the 18
small property owners that I think that it would be proper to retain and that may be at risk, we 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
may be at risk of losing them with this small consolidation for of course the noble objective that 1
we have. 2
3
But I would like to propose I would like to in addition to this I would like to propose that we 4
remove the parking requirements for [RT635] for those small property owners to allow them 5
[spur] investment on their own. And then I think that in addition when we going to come back 6
next time it would be also valuable I know that we have around 30 properties or so. We talk 7
with Jonathan Lait about this at the pre-Commission meeting and I thought that it would be 8
good to understand those small properties that are on the map at the back of the of today’s 9
handout. That’s the comment I wanted to make. Thank you. 10
11
Chair Alcheck: Ok. Commissioner Rosenblum did you have a final comment? 12
13
Commissioner Rosenblum: [Unintelligible] comments I had given kind of an overview of the 14
things I think are big versus small and so the two housing related issues and TDM. I want to just 15
add a couple of specific items to the TDM thing. What you've done here is suggest a trigger 16
point. So 100 net new trips generated will trigger TDM requirement for the building and I think 17
Commissioner Fine had a great idea which is around adding language that has the option of 18
them joining an existing TMA versus being their own TDM program. I think it's also an 19
opportunity to add the some definitions around TDM components. I know this is something 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
that based on the paragraph description in this package has already requested, but around 1
specific guidelines for parking reductions, unbundling parking, etcetera. So ultimately it's really 2
about what kinds of transit benefits you're giving in exchange for some sort of parking 3
alleviation. And so this is a good chance to cross-reference. Because just having the trigger 4
won’t really mean much if you don't define what happens when you cross that threshold. So I 5
guess the language request is that Council consider the two things together. Consider the 6
implications on parking along with the threshold. That’s it, thank you. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Ok, so when we come back together on this topic my hope is that we will have 9
we’ll be very familiar with it. We can look at the items that have been changed and then we 10
can begin as we do our round to sort of up and down indicate where we stand on any changes 11
and any particular terms. And finally I just want to say I want to suggest that if anybody on the 12
Commission comes has a comment that they'd like to make that they didn't make tonight and 13
they come up with it next week or tomorrow or whenever just send it. Forward it to Planning 14
so that they can incorporate it and we'll treat those as sort of comments made in anticipation 15
of the next meeting. Ok, with that I'd like to close this particular item on the agenda and unless 16
staff has any other comments they’d like to make? 17
18
Mr. Lait: Is it fair to us, is it fair to conclude that the items that were not discussed are good as 19
presented? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: Yeah. I think what I do think that what will happen is that we’ll probably have a 2
moment where we'll ask, I’ll ask individual Commissioners to sort of suggest are they 3
uncomfortable moving forward some of these topics without a greater discussion and when we 4
start next meeting. And if that's the case will probably set those aside and deal with the items 5
that we're comfortable moving forward. And then we'll probably have to figure out how we 6
want to deal with the items that require greater debate whether we want to create a study 7
session for those or simply I’ll ask staff what they would like to do also. 8
9
Mr. Lait: Great, just one last question. To advance that effort do you want to see an ordinance 10
that reflects our interpretation or no ordinance at the next meeting just a staff report? 11
12
Chair Alcheck: No I'd love to see an ordinance that reflects your interpretation of the 13
discussion. I think you may have received some (interrupted) 14
15
Mr. Lait: Language. 16
17
Chair Alcheck: Competing ideas here. 18
19
Mr. Lait: Right. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: And I think I wouldn’t want you to spin your wheels too long on whether or not 2
lifts should handle sport utilities or micro compacts. 3
4
Mr. Lait: Ok. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: I would just suggest that you write the language sort of with your interpretation 7
of what's the best way forward based on the discussion and then if we want to make changes 8
we will get really specific. I said I suspect we won't have tremendous disagreement here on 9
some of the specific language items. 10
11
Mr. Lait: Ok. And then we can simply just strike the ones that don't get advanced. 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Exactly. 14
15
Mr. Lait: Perfect. And so we’ll agendize that as a public hearing excuse me, because ordinances 16
are public hearings. 17
18
Chair Alcheck: Yeah and I think would be fantastic if that language was specific so people could 19
respond to it. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Lait: Fantastic. Thank you. 2
3
Commission Action: None 4
Committee Items 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Ok. So moving on. We don’t have any community items. 7
8
Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 9
10
Chair Alcheck: We have no… anybody have any questions, comments, moments of silence? No, 11
just kidding. Ok, with that we're going to adjourn tonight's meeting. It's 9:07. Thank you. 12
13
Adjournment 14