Loading...
The URL can be used to link to this page
Your browser does not support the video tag.
Home
My WebLink
About
02251974
CITY COUNCIL MiNUTES February 25, 1974 The City Council of the City of Palo Alto met on this date at 7:30 p.m. in a regular meeting, with Mayor Comstock presiding. Present: Beahrs, Berwald, Clay, Comstock, Henderson, Norton Pearson, Roeenba• (arrived 7:45 p.m.), Sher Absent: None .*iinuteea of Jana U 281 1974 Councilman. Henderson referred to Page 96, bottom paragraph, line four, and requested the words "the narrow" be inserted after the words "concerned about" and the word "that" be deleted. Councilman Henderson referred to Page 102, first line of the paragraph lust above the Resolution, and asked that the words "on Fire Zone 1 deliberations" be added just after the word "midstream". Councilman Henderson referred to Page 105, first paragraph after the Motion, third line from the bottom, and requested that the words "at the Spay and Neuter Clinic' be added after the wards "the rate schedules". Councilman Henderson referred to Page 109, the fifth paragraph under Downtown Beautification, last line, and requested that the word "aetting" be deleted and the word "sitting" be inserted. Councilman Beahrs referred to Page 112, top paragraph, bottom line, and requested that the word "they" be deleted and the words "the corner vending machines" be inserted. Councilman Beahrs referred to Page 115, the fifteenth line from the bottom, and requested that "Heil, no, the site isn't right" be corrected to read "I., no, the site isn't right". MOTION: Mayor Comstock moved, seconded by Pearson, that the minutes of January 28, 1974 be approved as revised. The motion passed can a unanimous vote. Minutes of Special Meeting of January 30, 1974 MOTION: Mayor Comstock moved, seconded by Berwald, that the minutes of the Special Meeting on organizational development be approved as submitted. The motion passed on a unanimous vote. 177 2123/74 Minutes of February 4, 12.1 Councilman Norton referred to Page 13©, paragraph six, second sentence, and asked that it be corrected to read "none of the houses is worthy of saving" rather than "while he would agree that all of these houses are worthy of saving", and further requested that the word "and" be inserted after the words "historical significance". Councilman Henderson referred to Page 128, paragraph three, line six, and requested that the spelling of Mt. Busse's name be corrected, Inserting an "e" for the "i". Councilman Henderson referred to Page 136, paragraph three, line two, and requested that the words "two Council meetings" be corrected to read "two Finance and Public Works Committee meetings and one Cos,ncil meeting". In the sans: paragraph regarding negative comments, he requested that a number "2" be placed in front of "the fact that Rinconada", a number "3" be placed in front of "many areas" and a number "4" be placed before "the recreation dollar". Councilman Sher referred to Page 130, paragraph four, which is attributed to him. It was agreed that Councilman Sher's name should be replaced by Councilman Beahrs'. MOTION: Mayor Comstock moved, seconded by Councilman Berwald, that the minutes be approved as revised. The motion passed on a unanimous vote. Old Police/Fire Euildin Lease (CMR:155:! & 170:4) !(JI�I�MYOAP1fBl1t011W Y� ®01 a!®M[lIYYlY9i 'alY!!Pl.tl.YP� Councilman Henderson noted that there were ten proposals received concerning the use of the twelve hundred square .feet of space in the old Police/Fire Building designated by the Council to be reserved for public purposes. Five of these proposals contemplated use of all twelve hundred square feet, while the other five proposals required less space and involved sharing with other organizations a conference room and reception area. He stated that the Finance and Public Works Committee members received detailed proposals and then heard presentee 'ions from representatives of each of the organizations. The committee's choice of recommendations of organizations to Council came chiefly from the process of elimination. He added that when Councilman Rosenbaum made the original motion to set aside twelve hundred square feet for public use, he had in mind a center for Senior Citizens. By the time a decision was required from the Finance and Public Works Committee, a point had been reached where Staff was expected to propose a senior citizen's concept involving over twice the twelve hundred square feet figure. This fact, he said, plus the need for a downstairs space or an elevator to the second floor to serve the senior citizens, caused the committeee not to select a senior citizens center. Furthermore, the committee felt that second floor space should be used since rental would probably be one half of that for first- floor space. There was a desire to include two or more organizations in the public space, if possible. Finally, Councilman Henderson said the committee felt that space should be used by social service type organizations. He explained that if the city were to subsidize general public nonprofit 178 2/25/74 organizations, that could set a precedent that could bring requests for space from dozens of community groups. The committee's decision on a two to one vote was to select the Resource Center for Women and Our Health Centel to occupy the public space, sharing a conference room and the reception area. Also, the staff was directed to work with these groups in designing the area with the hope that a third office might be possible for use either by the Community Relations Department of the city or by another community organization. Councilman Henderson bald there was discussion as to whether the public space should be fully subsidized, partially subsidized, or not subsidized at all. Again, by a two to one vote, the committee decided to recommend a monthly charge to cover the ordinary janitorial maintenance expenses. MOTION; Cc:uncilman Henderson, on behalf of the Finance and Public Works Committee, moved that the Council approve the allotment of twelve hun- dred square feet of public space in the old Police/Fire Building to the Resource Center for Women and to Our Health Center; the two organizations to be charged the costs of maintenance on the public space occupied; and that staff work out a satisfactory office arrangement between these two groups. Mayor Comstock noted that the recommendation of the Committee was before the Council, and that Council had received on earlier dates reports from staff and communications from interested groups describing details of other proposals. Also Council had the minutes of the February 12th Finance and Public Works Committee. He asked if there were any additional comments that staff would like to make at this point. Mr. Sipel requested some clarification regarding Mr. Henderson's comment about working in the Community Relations Office, stating that he was unclear at the last Finance and Public Works Committee meeting as to what was wanted. He assumed that since there was no specific direction in the motion that Council did not want that tatter included. Councilman Henderscn replied that he just wanted Staff to look into the possibility of providing space for another group when they were designing or laying out the floor space with the two organizations. He explained that working in another group vas not a firm directive but simply a comment with the thought in mind that another organization might be served sometime in the future, or that any available space might be used fox Community Relations. Councilmen Beahrs asked if there were any more information than the minutes show, concerning our Health Center. The group talks of being in need of a conference room, he said, and he was hesitant to tie up even so small a space for one organization that nay not be fully utilizing it. They also refer to it as "office use" which would presumably indicate that the space _would be constantly in use. He wondered why there should be office space here which is not closely related to the real therapeutic acitivity. Councilman Henderson replied that there was considerable discussion along these lines because the officewould be located some distance fro* the other facilities, but the group simply does not have apace where it is presently located. It was found that the office space does not need to be at the same location, because it is not a question of people coming in to the office and then having to be taken over to the clinic facilities. 1 7 9 "2/25/74 Councilman Beahrs stated that.a temporary use of the public space would be agreeable to hire but that it does seem like an awkward arrangement, and that it would be desirable if they could improve an their housing ultimately. Councilman Henderson asked;staff to comment on how long these groups would be locked in to the facilities. City Manager Sipel replied that they would be locked in for a two year period. If there were a wish to terminate their occupancy at the end of a year, that could probably be worked out. He elided that in review- ing the subject with the people involved, it was staff's understanding that they would want to have an office area of about one hundred fifty square feet and the joint .use of a conference room that would accommodate ten to twenty persons so this is not a very large amount of space. Councilman Clay asked for clarification on the monthly charge that was recommended and asked if that were opposed to subsidizing, Councilman Henderson replied that there had been discussion as to whether the area should be fully subsidized with all costa covered by the city, or partially subsidized or not subsidized at all. The motion that finally came up was to charge an amount tc cover the regular maintenance services, which would appear to be about ten cents per square foot. Councilman Clay said that this meant the difference then between sub- sidizing that and the fair market rate. Councilman Henderson stated this was correct, indicating that the charge would be ten cents and the city would subsidize the balance between that and the thirty-five or forty cents per square foot for the second floor space. Councilman Clay asked if the rental for the second floor was one half of the rental for the first floor or was that just an estimate. Mr. Sipel replied that the one half was an estimate, and that this will be a subject of negotiation between the city and Mr. Nieto, assuming that all of the items are approved by Council, Councilman Cloy asked what would happen after two years if the organi- zations who are approved tonight no longer wish occupancy or if for some reason the city discontinued its lease. Mr. Sipe]. replied that the space would then go back to Mr. Nieto, and he could do with it whatever he wished. Councilman Clay soloed if the city were leasing the apace for a two-year period only. Mr. Sipel said that this was ao, and if the city wanted to lease it at the end of the two-year period the subject would be brought to Council at that time and the subleases probably would have to case to Council as well. Councilman Clay said he understood the whole process and that the policy motion to allocate this space for public use was agreed upon some time ago, but that it #.eemed strange to him to lease the_space out lease it back and then sublease it! He said this was a hard roundabout way of accomplishing what was intended by that motion.. He asked if the lessee, Mr. Nieto, had ever considered leasing this twelve hundred equare feet directly to the occupants as opposed to the very roundabout way that it -is being gone into right now. Mr. Sipel replied that he was sure that could be done, and there was a lot more space in the building that had not yet been negotiated. He added that any group could go in and negotiate with Mr. Nieto in the marketplace to do just that. 180 2/25/74 Councilman Clay suggested that it might be possible to do something other than approve the two groups for tenancy suggested by the Finance and Public Works Committee, such as remove the city from the process altogether and send it hack to Mr. Nieto with the recommendation for whomever the city pleases and let him handle the whole matter. He said tliis would be a much cleaner wiiy of handling the situation, especially since the city would be subsidizing the entities that were there. Councilman Clay feared that a floodgate would be opened if such a precedent is established, and that other groups in the city would press for building space, if not in this particular building, then perhaps in others as they become available, such as Squire House, He said if there were no legal reasons why it could not be done his way he would like to offer the following: SUBSTITUTE MOTION: Councilman Clay moved, seconded by Norton, that this matter be referred to the lessee with Council's recommendation that he consider these groups and that the negotiation be done directly between the eventual lessee and the groups that are recommended. Councilman Henderson stated that this latter subject was discussed at great length at the committee meeting, and reliance was put on staff recommendations, but the fact that Mr. Nieto has the obligation of bringing the property up to ultimate use, that is -- doing all the remodeling, creating a value for all of the apace, makes it somewhat difficult then for the city to get involved directly. It seemed obviously simpler to have the entire building under Mr. Nieto's organ- ization and the city as is shown in the contract would be subleasing back and has options pariodically to pick up the lease. The second matter Councilman Henderson wished to comment on was Mr. Sipel's statemena that if a user of the space were to leave, then the space goes back to Mr. Nieto. Councilman Herd?rson said he believed that the agreement has specific time periods for the city to lease space from Mr. Nieto's organization, and the city in turn makes arrangements with the users of the public space. If someone vacates the public space then the city would seek another occupant with Mr.. Nieto's okay. The city cen renew its options for the whole length of the lease with Mr. Nieto if it so desires. Mr. Sipel said that Mr. Henderson's understanding was correct, and that he was responding to a questioning of what would happen at the end of two years. The city has an initial two-year period when it is committed to rent the space from fir. Nieto, and the city could do with it what it wished within certain boundaries established by the agreement, but the city could turn over the space to a different user. He added that at the end of the too -year period the city would have to execute an amendment to the agreement of lease or enter into a new lease with Mr. Nieto to extend the use of the space beyond the two-year period. Councilman Henderson said he thought there was an option to continue with the lease. Mr. Sipel replied that the option is in the master agre nt which reserves the twelve hundred square feet if the city vents it, Ceunci1 an Sher said it was his understanding that the referral motion has to do with the vty in which a rental is to be handled, directly or indirectly. He expressed surprise upon reeding the committee minutes 1 H 1 2/25/74 to find that the city was to pay a rental for the twelve hundred square feet. He said perhaps that vas the understanding from the beginning, but there had been no mention of that fact since he had been involved with this matter. His understanding was the city was reserving twelve hundred square feet out of the building and the balance was being rented to the lessee for the figures that Council had talked about. Councilman Sher referred to the September 21st, 1973 memo from staff to Council regarding this subject, in which the assumptions and criteria are Meted. One of them was "No. 4 - 1200 square feet of the building would be devoted to public use," and no mention was made of the city renting that space at fair market rates. He remembered that et the time the proposals were discussed there vas some question as to who would maintain this public space, and be understood the question was whether the city and the tenants of the twelve hundred square feet would share the cost or whether the tenants would be required to bear that cost. 11e said he understood the conclusion to be that it would be the latter. He requested that staff respond to his remarks since it was relevant to the referral motion since that motion assumes that the space is to be rented at a fair market rental by Mr. Nieto to the tenants. Mr. Sipel said he operated under the understanding that the area would be leased by the city fro the prospective developer at fair market rates because of the basic difficulty in dealing with an undefined portion of the building when there is a four or five hundred thousand dollar financial obligation to renovate the whole building. He said there was full knowledge by the Council, if not the full Council then certainly a number of Council men berg, that there was going to be a subsidy involved. The subsidy would be Jr. the fore of the city renting the space and passing it on to some other group at less than the fair market rate. The city will get less money back as a revenue for the project than we would if there were not a sublease for twelve hundred square feet. Mayor Comstock said to put it another way the tenants downstairs would be effectively subsidizing the tenants upstairs because it becomes an offset against the overall revenues from the project. Mayor Comstock asked if it were not correct that Mr. Nieto would be bringing the quarters that are being rented up to current code, in which case there would not be a burdea on the city to refurbish these quarters. l r, Sipel replied affirmatively. Councilman Sher said that this may be a cleaner way to handle the situation, but that it was also more expensive to the city, and also that he did not understand the comment about the first -floor tenants subsidizing the second -floor tenants if the city is going to be paying the rental. He asked Mr. Sipel if the figures that were projected when the matter was discussed last fall in which some assumptions were made about what the rental for the sublease would be, included assumptions about the twelve hundred square feet, or were those only figures for rental to private parties. Mr. Sipel replied that the income figures include an aesursption that the entire building would be rented ,gut. The difference here is if the city leases s portion of the building for nothing, then the amount of money to the city would be less by the rental rate of that amount of square footage, which would be five per cent of the square footage times the rental rata. Therefore, the city in effect is going to 182 2/25/74 subsidize some private group, and that is the understanding that staff had all along as being the direction of Council. Councilman Sher pointed out that the city could have rented twelve hundred square feet anywhere and turned it over to a private group, and asked if he were correct that the city simply wanted to be sure to have space in this particular building, and that the point was not one of saving money. Mr. Sipel said Councilman Sher`s statements were correct, and that he had pointed out this fact to Council en several occasions. Councilman Sher stated that nothing of this sort was brought to his attention since July 1st, 1973, when he became a Council member. Mr, Sipel said that he has talked to just about every member of Council individually and also wade the point at the Finance Committee meeting that that would be the case. Councilman Sher asked then if there were no particular advantage to this twelve hundred square feet other than its location, plus the fact that it is city owned. Vice Mayor Pearson said she always assumed that the city would rent the space and that some group or groups would be subsidized. She added that the point of retaining the square footage .in that particular building was the city wanted everybody to always know that that building was owned by the city of Palo Alto, and we wanted to have some public use of that building. Councilman Berwald said that Mr. Sigel had explained that the city would pay fair market value, and Mayor Comstock had said that the people downstairs would subsidize the upatairs. He wanted to know which of these statements was correct. Mx. Sipel said that the property that the city owns is going to generate a certain amount of income. If the income were $20,000 and if the subsidy is approved, the city will likely get not $20,000 back but $15,000 or $10,000, This means that the city will have $5000 or $10,000 leas to run all of its other operations. Councilman Berwald asked if the lesser amount were equivalent to the proportionate fair market value of the building. Mr. Sipel replied affirmatively. Councilman Berwald spoke in support of the referral, particularly in view of the fact that there is no advantage to the city to approve the gain action. Mr. Berwald said he would vote for the referral to the lessee, but that if it does not pass it would be his hope to have the matter sent back to the Finance Committee. Re said that he missed the Finance Committee meeting because of illness and therefore could not vote. If he had been able to vote, there would have been a two to two vote and so the matter would have come back to Council without a recoomendation. Re felt that the submittals, or tenants, had not been studied sufficiently to make a very informed and rational judgment. He said he had no information other than what appears in the committee minutee on the Resource Center for Women, but that if you read the minutes carefully and read the statements of Pat Bashaw, it appears thht 1 8 3 2/25/74 See p. 282, they are fairly close to the Palo Alto Women's Coalition. The statement in the minutes is that Councilman Norton asked if they were put in with the Palo Alto Women's Coalition and the League of Women Voters, how would that grab you. MS. Cook is quoted as saying that she thought that would be a compatible group, since they are all working in the same direction. Mr. Berwald pointed out that direction could include some things which as a moral issue he could not support, suct, as abortion counseling. He said more should- be known about the group which has been in existence only since April of 1973, and for that reason he would vote for the referral.. Councilman Norton said he did not think there was ever a clear agreement by Council that this would necessarily be a subsidy, although there was a suggestion that this would be the case; but there certainly was no agreement on the extent of the subsidy. He said it is unclear to hire whether the subsidy is coming from the city or Mr. Nieto, but gathers that it is coming from a little of both. He submitted that Mr. Nieta could probably not afford a subsidy because he is going to have a rough enough time making this project go without having to subsidize his neighbors in the building. The part of the recommenda- tion Councilman Norton objected to in respect of a subsidy is that it is so minimal that there is no effort to recoup any of the city's or Mr. Nieto's expenses for refurbishing the building; and there is no effort to charge a rent to represent the city's equity in the building with the result that except for the janitorial type maintenance, the city is givin; the property free with a virtually one hundred per cent subsidy. He said whatever lack of understanding that existed when the subject was discussed earlier, there was never any intention on his part that except for janitorial type services, that the city would give one hundred per cent subsidy. He said he thought the city would at least get back what represents its fair interest in the property without charging perhaps the .landlord's traditional profit, but the reco rda- tion goes far beyond that and that he could not support it; but would support the substitute motion for lack of anything better. Mayor Comstock asked Mr. Sipel if the referral to lessee notion passed would tat require a delay in consideration of the vaster lease. Mr. Sipel said that would be the case, or some very fancy footwork would have to be done rather quickly because the way the motion reads Council is not really making a decision on community space as required in the lease. He said that the situation is Council either wants to provide ccesnunity space or it doesn't and that either Council wants to subsidize or it doesn't. The situation now is that there is somewhere around a $150,000 decision jeopardizing a million dollar decision, and the lessee is not going to wish to go ahead without this being clarified. Mayor Comstock asked if Mr. Sipel could sake a time estimate of how long it would take for staff to reeelne the alternatives and return a report to Council. Mr. Sipel replied that the problem is not under- standing what is to be done with the lessee. Should Mr. Nieto be requested to negotiate with the groups at fair market value, and if that ie the case he could do that now. Or should staff enter sone negotiations where he would subsidize these groups and lower the amount of honey that the city gets from Mr. Nieto. Mr. Sipel interpreted this as placing the lessee in a rather difficult position, certainly more difficult than he would be if he used the groups as tenants. 1 1 184 2/25/74 Mayor Comstock commented that Mr. Berwald had now received a copy of the report which Council had received concerning the Resource Center for Women, describing the group's activities and their philosophical objec- tives. He paid that what is at issue and what is dividing Council is whether or not Council wants to continue to be committed to the desig- nation of the twelve hundred square feet of the total building space fox these types of cues, and the level of income or charges was something that was not understood by all members until recently. He added that the way he described it was perhaps a bit humorous, saying that the people downstairs were subsidizing the people upstairs. That portion of the building as part of the total lease agreement wi11 be refurbished as is the entire building, and that there is a portion of the building which Council hoe said, up until now at least, is space it wishes to have set aside for other .uses and that city will make up the difference between some specified level of charges which are those recommended by the committee and what might normally be acquired. It really comes back to what the total income might be that the city will receive from the building, whether all the floor space is to be committed to a full market rent situation or some portion of it is. The effect on the city is that under the proposed arrangement the income would be less that if the full market rate is charged. On the other hand, Mr. Sipel talks about concerns about timing, and it would be important for Council to understand that the project is attracting some very desirable financial banking and local community financial institutions. Apparently the basic concept does have appeal, and as long as the city can maintain its side of the timetable there is sore very good funding that is being propose& The referral motion ought to be reread to Council so that it is understood exactly what is proposed. Clerk Tanner read the referral motion as follows: It was moved by Councilman Clay, seconded by Norton, that Council refer this matter to the lessee, with its recommendation that he consider the Resource Center. for Women and Our Health Center and that negotiations ha carried out directly between the lessee and the groups recommended. Mayor Comstock said that he did not feel sure that this was complete guidance for the lessee, and that it was his understanding that staff had already discussed these recommendations with Mr. Nieto and that city has the lessee's concurrence of these two groups occupying the space and the recommendation reflects that. Mr. Sipel said Mayor Comstock's eesutaptions were correct, but if this is what the Council wishes d:o do the motion could be improved to give appropriate guidance. For example, should the negotiations be at fair market value and what happens if they don't reach an agreement. :Is it mandatory or is it something that would be nice to do? If those two factors were included in the motion then more guidance would be provided to the staff, and to the lessee. Councilman Henderson said he did not see how Council can have the lessee get together with the tenants to carry out negotiations since this is something that the city is proposing to do, to have this; public space made available, and go the city negotiates with Mr. Nieto. As Mr. Sipel says, if this kind of a potion is going to be made then there must be specific guidance given. If they ere going to do' the negotiating are they doing it at full market value, or at a certain subsidy, or mainten- ance subsidy or just what. The city cannot operate between the tenants and :sir. Nieto. It is the city which is saying it wants the twelve 185 2/25/74 hundred square feet for public use and other uses way be found for it after two years, but the city should be involved now. Councilman Clay said he wanted to clarify the fact that in his motion he did not specify the groups although those two groups may, in fact, be the eventual tenants. He said it is a technical matter whether the two groups recommended by the Finance Committee are the two groups who are going to be approved by .Council. The intent of the motion is 1) to get Council out of the act of subsidizing, and 2) if iiA fact this motion were to be passed, he doesn't see how it would cost any time because you could do a couple of things such as change the wording in the /ease, and that both parties have to approve the tenants that go in, so that no matter what Council approves, the lessee still has the right to approve or disapprove. Mr. Sipe1 explained that Mr. Nieto has already decided that the two groups recommended by the Finance Committee are acceptable. Ii Council would decide on other groups tonight, the lessee could respond to that Lmmediately. He said that if Council wants to get the city out of the community space leasing then you need to take that section out of the lease agreement, which would be the best way to accomplish that aim. Mayor Comstock stated that if the objective is to drop the policy that staff has been directed to follow which is to commit the space to these uses the most direct way to handle it would be by a motion to withdraw that space from being reserved for community organizations, and then the -.aster lessee would have all the space available to him and he can take whatevex action he wishes in terms of to whom he leases it and how much he charges. Councilman Clay stated that the effect would be to do that except to the extent that the lessee accepts our recommendation to reserve twelve hundred square feet for public :use. Mayor Comstock responded that the lessee has reserved the space at Council's direction and has agreed to lease it to the city at the going rate. The City, in turn, has said that it would sublease the apace to these two organizations whom we have specified, and he has indicat=ed his concurrence with that arrangemeat. If Council doesn't want to have that system operate then a direct way of handling it would be to make a motion that would no longer make that a feature of the lease. Councilman Clay said that he does not see anything wrong with the motion that has been made. The staff is going to require some manpower to administer that part of the lease and he wanted the staff out of it altogether. Mayor Comstock asked if it were Councilman Clay's desire that the city require the lessee to reserve the space but that he lease it to the groups directly himself at whatever rate he Fishes. Councilman Clay said that the intent of his motion was to get the city out of this transaction because it will cost money and effort to do it. Secondly, he ranted to get the city out of the act of subsidizing. He does not feel that the city should be engaged in subsidizing at this tine and it would be preferable to have the lessee deal directly with the tenants, whoever they happen to be, and if the lessee accepts the'tenants that have been recommended by the Finance and Public Works Committee and presumably by the Council, than the result will be what he feels the Council is looking for. 1 8 6 2/25/74 Mayor Comstock noted that this is not really what the motion says. Councilman Clay requested that the :notion be read again. Clerk Tanner reread the motion as follows: MOTION RESTATED: Councilman Clay moved, seconded by Norton, that Council refer this matter to the lessee with its recommendation that he consider these two groups and that negotiations be done directly between the lessee and the groups recommended. Councilman Clay said that the change he made in taking out the names of the two groups was purely technical and that whether or not the names are in, the motion Is as clear as it ought to be. Councilman Sher said that there ,ere a lot of the features of the motion that were attractive but that he felt the real question that Council had to address itself to was being buried. That is, whether there is going to be any subsidization of the rentals because it is clear as day that if this is referred to Mr. Nieto, and he agrees that those are the two groups who will be tenants, they are not going to be able to pay the market rentals. Those two groups would have to be forgotten, and Council could look at some others, some of whom could afford the rent and some of whom could not. The fact is the city does retain some control over whether there is going to be public use here because it has the right to approve or disapprove any sublessee, and that means the commercial sublessee and the people in the public space as well This means that if Mr. Nieto negotiates directly and the city does not like the group, then the city has control and Council can express that. Council must first decide if the city is going to subsidize the rentals there and if it is, then it is clear that having Mr. Nieto negotiate directly for market rentals isn't going to produce tenants. Councilman Seahrs said that it was his recollection that Mr. Nieto was happy to take over the entire facility and the practical effect of this proposal provides for that. He stated that some of the Council members and same constituents were concerned over a public facility being used commercially with no public use. This is a narrow-minded way of looking at it, since any building given over to public services on a proprietary basis or otherwise is being put to public use. He said he did not disagree with Mr. Clay in the sense that we should not be subsidizing these two particular organizations. There are many worthwhile activi- ties in this town that are not subsidized by the taxpayer and some that are excessively subsidized by the taxpayer. Councilman Beahrs said he would rather not subsidize any of these organizations, but that he felt the Mayor was correct in saying that Council is at the point where it must decide whether it le reversing Council policy or whether we are going to stand by it. He suggested that this motion be voted down and a motion made that Council not make provision for any public use at taxpayer's cost in this facility. 1 Vice Mayor Pearson stated . that it had been clear do her all these months that the policy of the Council was that the building was to be renovated, have a commercial use of it, and that twelve hundred square feet would be set aside for some public use. It was also clear, she said, that this indeed would have to be a subsidy because there would be no other way to have different kinds of volunteer groups use it. If 18? 2/25/74 it were going to be used for a Senior Citizens' Center, it certainly would be subsidized, and the same thing would be true if it were used for arts and culture, or recreation or any number of groups. She said now we have some groups who have shown they can be quite successful in doing something for the city of Palo Alto, and they need some space, and she is willing to subsidize them. She further stated that she did not think it was a great amount of subsidy when you consider the amount of good work these groups do. If Council refers this matter back to staff and to Mr. Nieto, it will be reversing a policy which the city has had for many months. What Council really should be doing tonight is getting on with approving what the Finance and Public Works Committee has recommended. Beth Depew, 115 Cowper Street, spoke as a representative of the Palo Alto Women's Coalition. Me. Depew said that the city made a commitment its July to use the twelve hundred squere feet of space for community space, and that meats serving the needs of the community. She said she could not see how letting Mr. Nieto lease out the space could possibly represent the needs of the community, because it would necessarily be an econ o is decision based on self interest. The building belongs to the taxpayers of the city, and the people made it clear last July that it should be used as public space. She did not consider that spending ten dollars for dinner at La Casa is serving the interest of the community. Palo Alto Wo:ae n':3 Coalition felt that the Finance and Public Works Committee's decision to give space to Our Health Center and Resource Center for Women was a good decision and they supported it. They further feel that asking them to pay maintenance costs is unfair si:,ace these groups provide low --cost servii_es to the community and they should not have to pay zraintenance cost. She requested that the recommendation of the Finance and Public Works Committee be passed and that the question of maintenance cost be reconsidered. Clerk Tanner repeated the referral motion for Council so that they would be certain what they were voting on. Councilman Sher said that he had just been informed that after the two- year lease expired, the city would have no say regarding the tenants in the building and this was of concern to him. - He would vote against the referral motion. The substitute motion to refer to lessee failed an the following vote: AYES: Clay NOES: Beehrs, Berwald, Comstock, Henderson, Norton, Pearson, Rosenbatui, Sher Mayor Comstock stated that it was now time to take action on the reco endation of the Finance and Public Works Committee. MOTION: Councilman Berwald moved, seconded by 8eahrs, that the recom- mendation be referred back to the Finance and Public Works Committee. Mr. 3erwald explained the reason for his motion. He said he would litre the Finance and Public Works Committee to resolve some of the queations that Councilman Sher has raised, and some that he has raised. He read the memo of February 7th and he said it seemed that the recommended 1 8 8 2/25/74 group, Resource Center for. Women, is a fine group, but he noted that what they said in their proposal and what they said at the Finance Committee Meeting were completely different. He said he needed to know more about their group and that he felt the same way about Our Health Center, }ie fe?,t that from the questions raised by members that it was clear that Council was not ready to make a decision on a completely rational basis. Councilman Beahrs wanted to know if Councilman Berwald intended to meet some of the questions of Mr. Clay, for instance, and would Council policy of subsidization of any orgaeization be reviewed. Councilman Berwald said that the decision to have community space in the building has been made, and he saw the question as being one of on what basis are the costs going to he allocated and who shall subsidize them, the operator of the restaurant or the city. Councilman Beahrs noted that this natter had been under discussion off and on over a long period of tine, and he was wondering just how long the city can get away with net taking definite action. Mr. Sigel replied that if the lease is approved in its present form, the Council will have to make its decision as to whether it wants to have the community space and who the sublessees are going to be by the date of execution, which will be March 4th. Councilman Clay wished to know the effect of referring this back to the Finance and Public Works Committee on the consummation of the lease agreement. Mr. Sipel replied that unless the Finance Committee can take care of this matter the next evening, and get it back to the Council on March 4th, in effect, the city is forgoing the opportunity to utilize the community space for this period of time. Councilman Henderson stated that the comments made by the representative of the Resource Center for Woaaen was probably being taken in error. It was his understanding that they meant they would be compatible in sharing the conference room and the reception area, and didn't mean that they were doing the same kinds of work or working with the same people. He said that all of these items had been discussed thoroughly in committee and that he could see no reason to go back to committee. He felt that Council should vote against the motion if it disagreed with the com- mittee's recommendation or amend it to not subsidize or take whatever action they felt necessary. He said it would be a waste of time to go back to the committee, and another point is that Mr. Nieto and the bank are ready to go ahead now. Pat Bashes', Resource Center for Women, wished to clarify that when questioned by Councilman Norton about compatibility she did not take it as a question of philosophy so much as a question of sharing space. She said the Center's objectives were quite clear and that their programs included students fross the Palo Alto High School Exploratory Experience Program. The group has also worked with a number of responsible agencies in Polo Alto, San Francisco, the uni"ersity system, community colleges, etc. She felt there was no question ea to their very specific objec- tives in employmeut counseling and education for women and eventually for the community as a khol=. Councilman Berwald questioned whether the organization does abortion counseling. Ms. Heehaw replied negatively, saying that the most they do is refer people to services that they ask about, but express no advocacy as to do so might jeopardise their tax-exempt status. Councilman Berwald stated that this cleared up his questions for him. The motion to refer the matter back to committee failed on the following vote: AYES: Berwald NOES: Beahrs, Clay, Comstock, Henderson, Norton, Pearson, Rosenbaum, Sher Mayor Comstock asked if Council was now ready to vote on the recommenda- tion of the Finance and Public Works Committee. Councilman Sher said that now Council was back to the main motion which embodies the two groups, and also embodies the assumption that the city will subsidize the rent over and above a small amount to compensate for the maintenance. He asked how much the subsidy would be in dollars, and how will the fair market rental be negotiated. For instance, would the city be paying the same thing that a commercial establishment might pay for like space. Mr. Sipel said that the city would be paying roughly the same amount as private tenants, keeping in mind that the city would likely he the first sublease that is negotiated because staff would start to work on that immediately, and that it would be at fair market value. The subsidy would be somewhere in the area of five to ten thousand dollars a year depending upon whether the first or second floor is used and depending upon the degree to which the area has been finished. Councilman Sher asked Mr. Henderson if the Cort,ittee's choice was based on the two best groups of those that cane to the meeting to request space, Some of these groups dropping their requests, some finding it might not be suitable to be located on the second floor, and so forth, so that the ccemittee'a recommendation was arrived at by prie rily a process of elimination. Councilman Henderson replied that the Finance and Public Works Committee tried to choose two groupsthat were the best suited to use the space available, not in any way meaning that these were the two best groups in Palo Alto. Re added that some of the groups were elisknated because it was not felt they were strictly a social services type of organization, Councilman Sher asked if there were other private non-profit organiza- tions that the city provided with space. Mr. Sipel replied affirmatively and mentioned such groups as Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Lawn Bawling Club, Veterans, Red Cross. Councilman Beahrs stated that .if this policy is continued indefinitely that one day the City of Palo Alto would be one huge United Crusade. He said that there are forty organizations, private and charitable, in the town ail part of the United Crusade, and this type of political play is going to destroy the incentive of private charity or support of any organization. Hie opinion wag that there has been too much of this already on they national and state level, and he simply wished to point out that everything can't be done. Mr. Sigel wanted to point out that Mr. Zellhoefer informed hiss that under one condition the subsidy could be as high as $13,000, given the optimum condition of prima space, seventy-five cents a square foot. 190 2 25/74 Councilman Clay wished to ask a question of the City Attorney about the statement "giving free use of property or subsidizing part of the use of buildings might constitute an illegal distribution of public property and that this could only arise in a situation where there was a subsidy." City Attorney Booth replied that that reference was not directed toward either of the two groups present at this meeting but toward the general proposition that groups not engaged in public purposes that received a city :ubeidy would leave_t.he.city open to potential liability of either a gift of public funds or engaging in activities not municipal affairs. The motion passed on the following vote: AYES: Comstock, Henderson, Pearson, Sher, Rosenbaum NOES: Beahrs, Clay, Norton ABSTAIN: Berwald Lease Between City and La Case de Nieto Y Amigos. Inc. (CMR:172:4) Counzil.man Henderson reported that there was some discuasion at the Finance and Public Works Committee meeting relating to the City Revenue Estimates that are attached to the staff -report of February 7th. For one thing, the commercial and office space rental was calculated at the same per square footage rate for the basement and first and second floors, and some calculating was done at the committee meeting at differ- ent rates for the different locations. Also, more conservative figures were suggested for projected revenue from the restaurant, so the result is that some changes on the last sheet showing city income had been made. The conservative estimate remains at $18,700; the projected estimate is now $19.100; and the optimistic estimate is around $39,000. These figures, he said, are above the original estimate of annual income to the city that was made in early deliberations. MOTION: Councilman Henderson moved, eeccnded by Comstock, that Council approve the recommendation of the Finance and Public Works Committee that the proposed lease between the city and La Casa de Nieto y Amigos, Inc, for the Old Police/Fire Building be approved. Councilman Sher said he assumed that in Article IV regarding rental payments the five per cent -on the gross base rent for the sublease, that would include everything, including the rent th►t the city will pay for the twelve hundred square feet, and the city will get five per cent of that back. Me. Sigel, replied that Councilman Sher's assumption was correct, Councilman Sher asked if the city has any control over the tenants who will go in the commercial parts of the building. He interpreted Article XIV on Page it to mean that any sale or sublessee had to be agreed to by the city aard asked if this cant that the city had some control. Mr. Sipel replied that it was staff's intention in that section to prevent assignment of the total facility to someone else without the city's involvement. 1 9 l 2/25/74 Mr. 2ellhoefer stated that the intent of Article XIV was to control Mr. Nieto's interest in the building and not to restrict his individual choice of subtenants in the building, shopkeepers, etc. Councilman Sher said there is a policy question of whether {.t wouldn't be a good thing. Apparently the lending institution does have a right to have a say on the organizations that go into the helve hundred square feet of public use area, and wouldn't it be a good idea for the city to have a reciprocal kind of say. Does the lending institution have some kind of a say over what kind of subtenants go in because apparently they are interested in who the various tenants are going to be in that building. Mr.'Sipel replied that the city does not need to have that control. That controlwill come from the market place because Mr. Nieto is not going to bring someone in who is going to hurt business, because that would jeopardize his -other tenants. There probably is a control by the financial institution, but he did not feel there was a need for a recip- rocal control. He said that he did not know on what basis the city ought to be judging a retail or commercial establishment as good or bad, and that Mr. Nieto was taking that risk. With respect to the public space, however, that is an entirely different story because we will have groups who will be providing a public service or pursuing a public purpose and that is the business of government. Councilman Sher said that he understood that as far as subletting the entire premises was concerned, it was thought necessary for the city to have a say and he wanted to know under what circumstances there might be such a subletting. Would an example of that be if Mr. Nieto's efforts should go under and the mortgagee would want to put somebody else in there to run this master lease of the restaurant and the subleases. Mr. Sipel replied that would be one of the circumstances. Staff's feeling was that after going through the competitive process from which the city selected one group to develop the building that we ought to protect that general use of the building, and if that were to change that we then ought to get back into the act to insure that our general interests were protected. Staff tried to draw a distinction between parts of the building and the totality of the development. Councilman Sher asked if Mr. Nieto should.default on his obligation the lender would want to protect his interest, making sure that the city could not terminate the levee, and having the right to go out and locate mother lessee and aaggest that to the city, who could not unreasonably withhold its approval. Mr. Sipel replied affirmatively. Councilman Sher said that there was a clause in the lease about default where no new lessee could come in and the premises come back to the city. Is it clear that there would be no compensations to the lessee or the lender for the improvements that were made and those then would come to the ownership of the city without any requirement of compensation? City Attorney Booth said he assumed that Mr. Sher was referring to Article XV on Page 12, in the absence of any subsequent document requiring subordination of the city's interest to that of the lender, he opined that his hypothesis was correct, that the city would take it as is. 1 9 2 2/25/74 1 1 Councilman Sher said that the city is not going to permit a private lender to take a mortgage on this property that is owned by the city. Mr. Booth said such action would require Council approval. Councilman Sher questioned whether it would be possible to insert a clause in Article XIV making it clear that in the event of default and termination of the lease that all the improvements would return and there would be no compensation to either the lessee or the lending institution. City Attorney Booth replied that this situation is covered within the terms of that section where it states "work a termination of this lease as if the term hereof had expired by efflux of time." Councilman Sher addressed the matter of public space again. He said that it was seen in the mechanics in the first discussion that there were some requirements to establish this loan that there be approval by the lessee and the lending institution. He understood that at the end of two years the city is free to terminate these two leases, and if so indicated, put in other tenants for public use; and if that is true what would be the further requirement of having those approved by other parties. Mr. Sigel replied that there is no requirement to go back to Mr. Nieto for approval of those sublessees. Mr. Booth pointed out that choice of tenants cannot materially inter- fere with the economic stability of the lease, and any disagreement between the city and major financing entities shall be resolved by arbitration. Councilman Sher requested an explanation of economic stability of the lease. Mr. Sipel explained that if the financial institution sloes rot approve of one of the lessees that the city wishes to put In then we have much less than a state of stability, we don't have a lease, which is a discreet way of saying that the financial institution has to approve of the sublessees. Ccuzcil.man Sher said he would prefer the direct way rather than the discreet way 3o that it is more clear what is being talked about. He asked if it was correct that one of the terms of the loan to Mr. Nieto is that the loan can be terminated if the lender is unhappy with tenants put into the public space. Mr. Norton mentioned in the committee meeting whether these first groups were considered to be more or less permanent, and he felt that a satisfactory answer was not given to that question. Now staff is saying that we are in a sense locked in because if we wanted to make a change and the lending institution didn't approve, they could take it to arbitration. He asked if Mr. Nieto could inform Council as to whether or not each change in tenant in the public space would have to be approved by the lender. Richard Nieto, 951 Dennis Drive, said that the loan he is working with is not predicated on how long the city is going to lease from him, and that the lending institution's only interest is that the entities in the building contribute to the future finances coming in. To ask that the loan be pre —approved before the Council tells him who the community users will be is totally unacceptable to the bank. Councilman Sher asked how subsequent changes would be handled. Mr. Nieto replied that he assumed the rest of his tenants would have to 1 9 3 2/25114 be asked whether there were any objections to the new group to come in. He saie: that he could not approve any group, nor could the financing entity, if the group suggested could not work with the rest of the tenants there. Mr. Nieto added, however, that he was not aware that a loan could be terminated under these conditions, which to him seemed a rather vague wording. Councilman Sher replied that ttcmination could mean that the loan was due if there were a breach of the loan agreement. Mr. Nieto responded that it would be considered on the part of the Council a breach of their good faith if they put in any group that would be leas than economically stable to the building. Councilman Sher said it was established that economic stability was a euphemism for lender approval. Mr. Nieto stated that he spent all day Saturday with the two groupe and that the groups and Mr. Nieto were very happy with their relationship. He said he discussed with the two groups that the Council was initially guaranteeing for two years, but that perhaps the groups' interest night lie beyond two years. They understand that Council's basic commitment is for two years only, and they antici- pate renegotiating themselves with the city at the end of two years. He added that he was meeting with the two groups at their office on Friday to outline their space site and their needs. Councilman: Sher said he understood this but he wants to know what will happen in two years if these two organizations axe no longer in existence, or are unable to work out a satisfactory lease arrangement with the city, so that other groups would then have to be suggested. Mr. Nieto replied that the city again would put an article in the news- paper and would once more go into lengthy and expensive negotiations on both sides, and his space would be tied up with no rent during that time. Councilman Sher said that although he still felt some concern he would not pass the matter further. The motion passed on a unanimous vote. Recommendations R€aardin#t Downtown Parking « MR:16ds4) Councilman Henderson said that this is the third time in the past year that the Finance and Public Works Committee has discussed downtown parking issues. Last summer a proposal to increase the parking fine from one dollar to two dollars was defeated, and in October certain rental and maintenance chargeaiade by the city to the parking assessment district vere discussed. This time the focus was on parking meters in the down- town area, but the discussion involved sfl the aspects of downtown parking and their interrelationships. It was the desire of the committee members to eliminate the parking suers even though no mandate was received from the close vote on a poll taken with downtown property owners and occu- pants. The problem In removing meters, he explained, was the loss of --revenue to the parking assessment district and a resulting increase in assessment to the various property owners. The committee has come up with a proposal to eliminate the meters, ease the burden on property owners by adjusting certain rental and maintenance charges, and increase parking fines to cover additional costs to the city. If the meters are removed, there is a loss of $35,300 per year in revenue to the parking assessment district. This Loss would be partially offset by a reduction 194 2/25/74 by the city on the rental charges to the district for Lot C from $8400 to $5700, or a total of $2700. There would be a reduction of mainten- ance charges by the city to the district of $12,500, and a reduction in insurance expense of $1000. There is new revenue from a pay lot off Alma Street that will bring in about $1500, and there is increased revenue expected from a higher permit parking fee which will be about $1500. These steps provide a total offset of about $19,200 against the lost revenue of $35,300 leaving $16,100 in additional assessment charges. If all, rather than a portion, of the maintenance charges were dropped, the district would be relieved of another $8000 expenses, leaving only $8000 added to the assessment charges. From the city's standpoint the reductions in Lot C rental and maintenance and insurance charges result in $16,200 added cost in the operating budget. However, by increasing the parking fine from one dollar to two dollars, the city would net another $29,400 in income. So subtracting this new outlay to the dish:ict for cutting the maintenance charges, etc., from the increase in income from the fines leaves a net gain to the city of $13,200. If all the maintenance charges are dropped, the city would absorb another $8000 in costs and still be ahead from the parking fines by some $5200. The proposal includes elimination of the downtown parking meters, a sharing in the revenue loss by the parking district and the city, and a means of producing new revenue to the city wllch more than offsets the city's additional cost. MiT10N: Councilman Henderson roved, seconded by Berwald, that Council approve the Finance and Public Works Committee's recommendation re downtown parking: a) all remaining parking meters be removed, speci- fically that staff be directed to return amendments to Resolution No. 2971; b) reduce the city rental charge to the Parking Assessment District for Lot C from $8400 per year to $80 per parking space per year; c) adjust the city offstreet parking maintenance charge to tho Parking Assessment District to a proration of the number of permit spaces to the total numer of parking spaces; d) request the City Attorney to ask the Municipal Court to increase parking fines from one dollar to two dollars; e) that charges for fiscal year. 1973-74 be prorated to reflect the impact of these charges; f) that the City Attorney prepare the necessary ordinance changes to reflect the above. Mayor Comstock reviewed the details of the recommendation and the motion and asked if there were any questions or discussion. Mr. William Bixby commented on the competent staff work in discussing what See p. to do about parking in downtown Palo Alto the last couple of years. He 282 said that Downtown Palo Alto is in very tight competition with Stanford and other shopping arenas, the net results being that anything that affects the cost of overhead can really disturb the profit proposition. Mr. Bixby reviewed some of the progress that has been made in downtown Palo Alto, such as street widening, establishment of parking lots, lighting struc- ture was revised, and ultimately, after much discussion, the parking meters were removed from the parking lots. He pointed out that it has takeu fifteen years to come up with a program that is viable, and in conjunction with this proposition cam the last question of what should be done about tht parking meters ou the streets. Some of the downtown people +mere in favor of moving parking meters and some were not; and at the time of the survey of the merchants and property owners it was felt that the cost would be fairly significant. Downtown Palo Alto Inc.. had a board meeting end unanimously determined that the best; they' can do is add a five cent increase per thousand dollars of assessment in added 1 9 5 2/25/74 ccet to be charged against the removal of the meters. In other words, they could not absorb an additional parking cost of $16,000 which shows in Plate No. 1. He said right now Downtown is receiving a net return on the meters on the parking lots of same $36,000, but that if the modifications are made a change in the net value will be $16,000. He explained that the net revenue for bond amortization, instead of being $36,000 as it was in 1973, would be $36,000 less the $16,000, or $20,000.. Downtown cannot take that kind of a deduction, but felt that they could take a rate that would be .40 to .41, five to six cents. The $16,000 difference represents ten cents on the tax scale. To achieve that, the $16,000 figure would have to be changed to more like $8000 or $9000, and the only way that figure can be reduced is by having the city absorb all of the maintenance costs on the lots. The total cost of the maintenance of the lots is $19,000. The pro rata plan would have pro- vided that the city would pick up the charge for those parking spaces within the lot that are free, and that downtown would pick up, in effect, the maintenance charge which would be allocated against the revenue -paying parking spaces, those used on an all -day basis. Downtown would like the city to pick up all the maintenance charges which would be another $6000, which would mean that the net change of the $16,000 in loss would be roughly $9000, or five cents on the tax rate. The offset to the city is in the proposition that the bailment would be raised from one dollar to two dollars, and that by that raising there is an increase of $17,500 profit if there are no meters. He then requested that the city consider picking up the added $6000, which would give Downtown Palo Alto members an increase of five cents in taxes in lieu of ten cents shown on Plate 1, since the city would still have a profit based on the bailment. He was suggesting an offset of no parking peters at a rate that Downtown can afford, and in turn raise the bailment so there would be an offset in costs from the city's viewpoint. The alternative as far as Downtown Palo Alto is concerned is to leave things as they are including the parking meters. Councilman Rosenbaum said that his thoughts were that the city would take on about fifty per cent of the added expense and that the District would pick up the other fifty per cent, and that is the arrangement he would like to stay with. Councilman Beahrs asked who would absorb the additional parking monitor cost of $16,000, which appeared to him to be a deduction from the $17,500, which would mean only a $1500 gain. Mt. Warren Deverel, A.saistant City Manager, stated ,that the additional monitor would be added if needed, but that the new situation would be tried first with four parking monitors, and if a fifth would be needed, then that would essentially absorb the increase of the two dollar bailment. Councilman Sher asked Mr. Bixby if there were no room in the permit fees on an all -day basis for an increase that would handle his problem. Mr. Bixby said that at present the space for each vehicle in the all -day lot costs S80 per year, and to run them up to $90 or $100 seemed to be out of line, Mr. Deverel said that a judgment had been made on experience in raising fees on another lot in which caae occupancy dropped off measurably. He stated that ebo opportunity to raise rates in general on permit fees is limited and that the demand is quite elastic. 1 9 6 2/25/74 Councilman Sher asked if in the arrangement under discussion the city would be picking up additional costs of maintenance. Mr. Deverel replied that the cost of maintaining the parking lots is approximately $19,000 to $20,000 per year. Plate No. I assumed a roughly one-third to two-thirds split predicted on the city maintaining the nonpermit portion of the lot and the Assessment District paying for the mainten- ance of the permit portion of the lot. The suggestion from Downtown Palo Alto is that the city pick up the entire amount. Councilman Sher said this means the $13,000 would have to be subtracted also in which case the city would have a loss, assuming another monitor would be hired. Mr. Deverel said the problem being faced is one of dealing with two separate funds. The net change shown is one of $16,000, and that is to the Assessment District. The second chart shows that the city would have to pick up $16,200 worth of that, which is the $12,500 maintenance, the cost of insurance and the loss in revenue from Lot C, so that the net change to the city in this transaction would be $16,200. The parking enforcement revenue change goes from $11,900 to $17,500, at total change of $29,400, and that figure less $16,200 leaves a net change to the city of $13,200 of surplus in the entire operation. If the additional figure of $8000 for lot maintenance is used then that would bring the net change to the city's general fund to approximately $5000. Councilman Sher asked if he understood correctly that it was staff's recommendation to forget about all of this. Mr. Deverel said that the numbers shown on the plates reflect what staff considers the committee's recommendations to be. Councilman Norton asked staff if Mr. Bixby's statement that $6000 rep- resents roughly ten cents on the tax roll is correct. Mr. Deverel replied that the $16,000 represents roughly ten cents. Councilman Norton said then that the $6000 which Mr. Bixby is asking for, which he says makes or breaks the deal, represents about three cents on the tax roll. Mr. Deverel replied it would be more like 3.8 cents. Councilman Norton asked how many dollars per year that would mean on a S2O0,00O building. Staff replied that it would mean about $60 for three cents and $80 for four cents. Mr. Norton said that if you take the $6000 and divide it among the m.rchants who would share that cost, roughly two hundred property owners, that would mean a cost of $30 to each one. Councilman Norton Reid he did not believe Hr. Bixby, respectfully, that. the ,merchants would let the meter removal project die over an added expense of $30 per year; and secondly, that the California Avenue merchants pay two or three times the assessment that downtown paye; and finally, the decision to remove the meters was not made solely to accommodate the merchants downtown, but the people who use downtown for shopping, most of whom presumably are Palo Alto residents. Mr. Norton said consideration of the shoppers' convenience is enough motivation for him to want to remove the meters. Councilman Henderson agreed with Mr. Norton's statements, and mentioned another factor which was the city receiving sufficient increased income from the parking fines to offset its contributions to this change. On the revenue side, the figure he had that day was still the $29,900, and if that were true from the removal of the parking meters then he would consider the six or seven thousand dollars additional maintenance. But 197 2/25/74 if $17,500 is the figure, then to add the six et- seven thousand dollars puts the city into a negative position which he could not justify. He was curious to know why the fines shculd be so much lower without parking meters. Mr. O'Meara said that from the experience over the two months metered coverage period, staff finds that there would be a drop of about fourteen per cent just because city has lost a controlled mechanism in the metered areas; the expired meter citation. Councilman Aenderson.replied then that he would like to stay with the motion as ire and would not want to consider the suggested adjustment. Councilman Beahre said there was a responsibility to preserve the economic viability of downtown, and that he did not see how downtown would eurvive even with beautification if it is not put to some degree on a par with shopping.centere which provide free parking. If the economic viability of downtown is increased, the city will realize more in sales tax, so that he was not concerned about the city picking up more of the cost of the maintenance if it were necessary. He said the chief objective is to increase sales in downtown, and he would do anything to gain that end. Vice Mayor Pearson commented that she couldn't help saying to do any- thing to gain that end would be to subsidize downtown Palo Alto. Vice Mayor Pearson asked if the monthly parking slots were $80 per year. Mr. Deverel replied that most of them are $80 per year, and a few are $100. Vice Mayor Pearson said this was a very low parking space fee, and that perhaps that could be raised five or ten dollars, and she wanted to know if such a raise had been implemented previously with adverse effects. Mr. O'Meara said the parking rates were higher at one time, and it was found better utilization could be obtained by L veer- ing them in some lots; however, a complete study will be made of individual lots and en attempt made to optimize the available space and adjust the rates accordingly. Mr. Deverel noted that there is another tradeoff, that being that the city wants to keep as many cars out of the peripheral residential areas as possible, and if the parking meters arc removed there is a very careful analytical job ahead of staff to determine what the impact .is &Ding to be in the parking lots in the residential areas as smiles in previously metered areas,. He stated that staff was not talking about large increases in fees, since they may be possible, but that they should not be counted ou at this point. See p. 282 See p. 282 Vice Mayor Pearson pointed out that she gets annoyed when she comes to downtown Palo Alto on Saturday and sees all these metered permit parking spaces saying that she is not to park there. The whole lot is full of them, leaving just a few spaces for the public, and perhaps staff could look at that to see how the space could be spread around more equably to the shoppers at least, and raise the prices. Mr. Bixby pointed out that based on Plate I that the difference on the tax rate. represents $1600, representing a tea cent increase 1n tax rata. If the tax rate could be reduced by three or four or five cents, then it would be quite amenable. He said Downtown Palo Alto has aoae added problems end added costs: the cost of beautification will be 198 2/25/74 relatively substantial, sixty spaces of parking will be lost on University Avenue, about twenty spaces will be lost in Lot C when it is renovated to bring Cogswell Plaza adjacent to the Old Fire and Police Building, another one hundred to one hundred twenty-five parking spaces will be lost in what is commonly called the old Safeway lot. Ultimately, this would mean Downtown Palo Alto would be coming in and asking for another parking lot assessment to increase the parking facilities. He commented that what is being talked about is providing a service in conjunction with beautification, and this becomes more than a three, four or five cent offset to Downtown Palo Alto. From the point of view of the city they felt there was an even break that the change in bailment would just about offset what was being talked about. He added that until it could be seen how things went with beautification, how the parking worked out, they were not in a position to commit themselves to increases in taxes that appear to be in excess of what the people in Downtown are talking about. Mr. Bixby pointed out that the survey showed that the people downtown were very lukewarm with respect to removal of the meters, and they were thinking in terms of taxes. Therefore, he requested some sort of an offset or that things be left as they are now. Councilman Beahrs requested what the impact of this would be on beautification, noting that he could not quite visualize the new development with a huge number of parking meters along that street and felt they should be removed rtow. Mayor Comstock reviewed the six points of the committee recommendation for Council. The motion passed on a unanimous vote. MOTION: Mayor Comstock moved, seconded by Beahrs, approval of the Planning Commission recommendation to acceet the interim signing plan for directional signs on El Camino Real and University Avenue to the Holiday Inn complex as submitted by staff with the following changes: (1) that staff be directed to modify its present plan to adopt signing which would encourage U-turns at Embarcadero Road rather than at Homer Avenue, (2) that the signs, to the greatest extant possible, refer to the Holiday Inn rather than hotel, (3) that the Holiday Inn pay for the signe that say either Hotel, Inn, or Holiday Inn, including staff time on the project. Councilman Norton noted that staff recommended that drivers turn at the Homer Avenue point, presumably with the help of the engineer=s and other expert advise, and he was curious to know why the Planning Come mission recommended the turn at Embarcadero. Planning Commission Chairman Mary Gordon stated that the U-turn at El Camino and Pasbarcadera is :a protected turn and this fact figured heavily in the Commission's evaluation. She added that the Homer turn has not received the intensity of use that is anticipated as the Holiday Inn functions to its fullest capacity, so that there could well_ be a situation where you sight have more than the number of cars there than the stacking lane could accommodate waiting to wake the turn, which could be confusing and perhaps dangerous. Furthermore, the person 199 2/2.5/74 wishing to make that turn should be well aware of the situation ahead, and as you come up from the area underneath the underpass, there is not an adequate opportunity to see and to judge in advance what kind of maneuver might be necessary. Councilman Norton requested that staff comment on this, and give their recommendation. Mr. Ted Noguchi, Traffic Engineer, said that Planning Commission Chair -- man Gordon's points might be valid but at the same time he felt that most of the people destined for the Holiday Inn are using the Homer Avenue left turn slot as well as the one leading to Town and Country. The signal at Embarcadero does have a left turn protected phase, so the U-turns can be conveniently made, and the only drawback to that location would be the wait -factor. Because of that there might be lees likelihood of people choosing that place to turn back. Councilman Norton said he was inclined to agree with staff on this matter, and that the Planning C ission's statement that there may be too much traffic someday is speculative, and is not based on the kind of expertise that Mr. Noguchi has available to him. He added that the Embarcadero U-turn signal gives the motorist a second chance. He recommended that the staff's recommendation be tried, .and if there is a future problem then city should go the Embarcadero alternative alone. In the meantime, he did not feel people should have to go one half mile further to accomplish the same end. See p. 282 Vice Mayor Pearson said she is not in favor of this recommendation at all and that she could provide knowledge from experience with making U-turns at Homer Avenue off of El Camino and also making the little dash from Homer across onto El Camino going south. She indicated that the situation is difficult when someone wants to make a U-turn on Homer feom El Camino and another driver wants to cross El Camino to travel south. This situation is hazardous and whether or not there is an increase in Holiday Inn clientele, this dangerous crossing should not have been allowed at all. Secondly, she stated that it is not one half mile down from that area to Embarcadero, but is a mere two blocks, and she certainly would not be in favor of that. She said that when the Cabana was being built there was desire by that Inn to have a left turn signal for its tenants to get across El Camino. Council said that would be a special favor for that one hotel, so they never did get a left turn lane or signal, or signs. She suggested that Holiday Inn can devise a way to inform their clientele of a safe route to their establishment, She stated her intention to vote against this notion because she does not believe in special favors for any inn or hotel telling people how to get there. Councilman Beahrs said his decision was wade entirely on the basis of safety, and felt signing was required because of the awkward approaches involved and the confusion that results without signing. Re reiterated that in his opinion the safer tura is made at Embarcadero rather than Honer. Councilman Henderson said he vas struggling with a precedent problem. He realizes that this hotel is in a difficult location, but he didn't like the idea of directing traffic to a specific hotel, and would rather leave that to the hotel which could use billboards on Bayshore, diagrams that are wiled out with room confirmation, etc. He said that there are 2 0 0 2/25/74 a number of hotels which would benefit by signing, but that they did not have them, and he would oppose any action of signing for this hotel. SUBSTITUTE MOTION: Councilman Norton moved, seconded by Berwald, that Council follow the Planning Commission recommendation with the exception ;l that the sign appear at Homer Avenue rather than at Ezinlarcadero (if it could be worked out that the sign would indicate that either is available, that would be all right), 2) that the reference be to "hotel" rather than to "Holiday Inn," which is what staff originally recommended also. Staff commented that if this motion passes it would be their intent to put signs at both places; however, the placement of signs on El Camino is subject to approval by the state and communications with the state thus far have not been fruitful. Vice Mayor Pearson requested that the motion be divided. Mayor Comstock said the first part of the motion then would address itself to the U-turns at Homer with the possibility of a sign at Embarcadero. Councilman Eeahrs stated that speaking from the standpoint of safety he could understand a reluctance to identify Holiday Inn on the signs, but most confusion would be created by those persons seeking the Holiday Inn. Part 1. of the substitute motion failed on the following vote: AYES: Ber-w ld, Clay, Norton, Rosenbaum NOES: Reahra, Comstock, Henderson, Pearson, Sher Mayor Comstock noted that the second part of the motion would address itself to the sign reading "Hotel" rather than "Holiday Inn." Mrs. Gordon stated that it ';as the commission's feeling that just saying "Hotel" tends to suggest that this would be the hotel for Palo Alto, and would give a very unfair advantage relative to competition. The second part of the substitute motion failed on the following vote: AYES: Clay, Rendereon, Norton and Rosenbaum NOES: Beahra, Berwa►ld, Comstock, Pearson, Sher Mayor Comstock said that the Council could not vote on the main motion. Vice Mayor Pearson commented that the reason to have the motion divided was so that all three parts could be voted upoat, and it was agreed that the main motion as presented by the Planning Commission would be divided. Councilman Henderson said that the problem in dividing is that you cannot ezprese yourself for or against signs; that if he knew the signs were going to pass then he would rant to have the C' -turn at a certain spot, but he didn't see how he could vote against signs all the way through if he did not want any signs. 2 0 1 2/25/74 Mayor Comstock suggested that if Councilman; Henderson were opposed to any action, he could vote down all three parts. Councilman Henderson stated that this was unfortunate because he wanted to have the U-turn at Embarcadero Road if there are going to be signs. The first part of the motion as recommended by the commission passed on the following vote: See p. 282. AYES: Beahrs, Berwald, Comstock, Henderson, Sher NOES: Clay, Pearson, Norton, Rosenbaum Part two of the motion as recommended by the commission passed on the following vote: AYES: Beahrs, Berwald, Clay, Comstock, Sher NOES: Henderson, Norton, Pearson, Rosenbaum Part three of the motion as recommended by the commission passed on the following vote: AYES: Beohrs, Clay, Comstock, Henderson, Norton, Pearson, Rosenbaum, Sher NOES: Berwald The main motion approving the recomnendation by the Planning Commission passed on the following vote: AYES: Beahrs, Berwald, Clay, Comstock, Norton, Rosenbaum, Sher NOES: Henderson, Pearson MOTION: Mayor Comstock introduced the following ordinance and moved, seconded by Henderson, its adoption: ORDINANCE NO. 2773 ENTITLED "ORDINANCE OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PALO ALTO AMENDING SECTION 10.44.020 OF THE PALO ALTO MUNICIPAL CODE RELATING TO OVERNIGHT PARKING" (first reading 2/11/74) The ordinance was adopted on a unanimous vote. Sewer Collection System Maps - Proposed Contracts(CMR:181:4) Mayor Comstock noted that Council had the staff report dated February 22, 1974, with an attachment of the agreement. NOTION: Mayor Comstock awed, seconded by Berwald, approval of staff's recommendation that Council authorize the Mayor to execute the Contract. The motion passed on a unanimous vote. • MOTION: Mayor Comstock moved, seconded by Beahrs, approval of the License Ag,:eeament . The motion peseed on a unanimous vote. 202 2/25/74 Test in of Fire r A licants: A prove o Joint Powers Agreement (CNJt:182:4) MOTION: Mayor Comstock moved, seconded by Berwald, approval of Joint Powers Agreement. Councilman Beahrs asked why this procedure should be geared entirely to the numbers of staff and not include the turnover factor, since whoever had the biggest turnover would be the biggest beneficiary of this arrangement. Mr. Jay Rounds, Personnel Director, replied that all aspects had been considered, and that it was extremely difficult to predict from year to year what the turnover would be. At the present time, Palo Alto is the city with most openings, with Mountains View and Campbell having no openings. Staff felt basing this matter on a percentage basis would be the best way, and the cost involved was being handled in the same manner. Councilman Henderson said he was surprised to see that Palo Alto and Mountain View are the same size cities and that one has fifty-nine firemen and the other ninety, and that Campbell's population was about fifty per cent of that of Palo Alto, and yet our city has three and one-half times as many firemen. 4r. Sipes responded that a look at the assessed valuations and the facilities and ; --;: `ties that are protected by the City of Palo Alto as compared .0 ,Mountain View and Campbell would identify the difference, and said there were a number of parts to the equation other than just population. The motion authorizing the Mayor to execute the Joint Powers Agreement passed on a unanimous vote. A:cident Anal sis and Prevention Pro rasa: ,Approval of Consultant Contract t:18 :4) MOTION: Mayor Comstock moved, seconded by Berwald, that the Mayor be authorized to execute the agreement with Lawman b Associates in the amount of $17,500 for professional services, accident analysis and prevention program. Councilman Beahrs asked Mr. Deverel if this involved the stop -and -go policy, and Mr. Noguchi replied the specifics in the contract do not directly require the consultants to directly involve himself in the so-called guard and go stop sign system. It could involve certain parts of that system as it relates to high accident rate intersections. Staff is prepared to conduct further studies of the guard and go stop sign system at a future time, but this contract does not address itself to that particular point. Councilman Beahrs stated that he hoped this particular question would be considered in evaluation, because there are a lot of second guessers who are beginning to comment on the stop and guard system. Councilman Henderson asked why staff called this the intersection project, since it is inn overall accident aneiyeis and prevention program. 2 0 3 2/25/74 Mr. Noguchi replied that the actual title is Accident Analysis end Prevention Program, and the intent is to develop a comprehensive approach to the problems on the public streets. The motion passed on a unanimous vote. Review of the Fall 1973 Communit Arts Forum (CMR:183;4) Mayor Comstock noted that a motion continued from the meeting of April 23, 1973 was before Council and shown in the agenda for this meeting. Council also had the staff's report and the detailed minutes of the Community Arts Forum held on January 24,-1974. Vice Mayor Pearson reported that she reviewed all the material on this matter, reread the art forum programs from the beginning of the year 1973. She noted that there had been several changes and that things in the Art Department had changed somewhat; she felt the things that had been done are for the better, and she complimented Mr. Longacre for those changes. She stated that the Art and Cultural Program is still a very large part of the budget and a large part of the School District budget, and it was an area which council members, staff and the public at large had a difficult time with deciding what is happening in the art and cultural world. She said that as she reviewed the Art Forum Minutes and the recommendations from the Staff, she noted that basically the same general program was in both texts word fur word and mentioned the same general goals. The art forums being talked about consisted of about one hundred people in attendance, with approximately twenty to twenty- five of these people being staff members, which meant that not many of the general public were present. She further noted that those people who were present were those sane people each time, so that it could not really be called a general public foram, but -rather it involved those people who are totally involved in the arts and have something to gain or lose through council recommendations. She said she reviewed the Art Commission's survey which came from the ad hoc committee and which showed that no city except Carmel contributes more to ;Jhe arts than Palo Alto, with Palo Alto contributing approximately six dollars per person and Carmel forty dollars. Other cities spend around forty cents or seventy cents per person, depending upon size. She noted that Carmel does have an Art Commission, Vice Mayor Pearson's feeling that cane out of all of this was that although things happened that art e good, there is still no one official group, and only one staff member who can submit applications for outside funding, and requests for fundc from the National Endowment for Arts which was turned down. She commended Mr. Lomgacre for receiving a $10,000 grant that day, but she still felt there should be an official group to raise funds from private sources, and it seemed to her that you would find the arts and cultural groups seeking funds for each individual thing, such as a dance group, or ceramics, or music, consequently raising only small amounts. She contended that as long as the city contributes heavily, private income sources will be uninterested in contributing to the arts in the City of Palo Alto. There is still no official group which can continually appraise the program and the projects and make recommendaticns to council on those thiaga. There ie no oee group sufficiently knowledgeable in the arts which could face up to the setting of priorities.. Vice Mayor Pearson determiaed from what she read that they were not delving into the new and exciting future, concerning themselves with the diminishing school and city funding, and the growing "at-hosiaem" because of the 2 0 4 2/25/74 energy shortage. She noted that when she went through the Capital Improvements Program for 1974-79 she found that in the arts and cultural areas alone, we are projecting expenditures of $500,000 on top of the building, which coats approximately $350,000, and an annual budget of about $300,000, which is a tremendous amount of money which goes to one small group of people in Palo Alto and does not have the benefit of a general public airing other than that which is gotten through the Finance and Public Works Committee, which was not well attended, the Policy and Procedures Committee, which gets attendance only when some- thing is controversial, and the Arts Forum which is attended by those who have something to promote. She stated a general plan was needed for the arts and cultural fields, and also later on, recreation in Palo Alto; and she was reminded of the eight -year battle to get an architectural review board, which is now so successful. If the city had an arts commission we would get far more exciting programs in Palo Alto. She had not been persuaded by the Forums, although she would like them to be continued even though there might be some other official body. SUBSTITUTE LOTION: Vice Mayor Pearson moved, seconded by Henderson, that the staff be directed to prepare are ordinance to establish an arts commission, to follow basically the f„3rm fol _owed by the Planning Commission. Councilman Henderson stated that last April he supported the motion to appoint a cormittee to study all phases of the overall arts program in Palo Alto and to sake recommendationE to the council, and also the continuation of such a move until after the October Arts Forum. It was indicated then that this Forum would be devoted primarily to budget considerations and that it would illustrate to council how the arts community could work together to establish priorities. His fear was that each group within the arts community would come up with a list of needs and suggestions with no overall coordination in the setting of priorities. Reading through the Arts Forum Mnutes and the staff response he found that his apprehensions were justified. The adult theatre interest group had five funding increase recommendations, children's theatre interests - ten, dance area - seven, film area - eight, visual arta workshop area - six, music interest area - thirteen, exhibition interest area - two, which makes a total of fifty-one recommendations for increased funding. Under present policy, city staff will respond to these requests and recommend budgeting priorities. Ha said he had not seen the 1974-75 budget as yet, but he had read the arts staff response to the.Forum indicating that thirty-one items would be accepted which are either new or require increased funding, including such items as a dance activity coordinator, student cultural expansion program, playwriting competition, full-time secretary for the children's theatre, a score libeary and so on. He stated that he did not mean to indicate that these requests were not justified, but that they would all appear in various form before the Finance and Public Works Committee at the budget hearing, and this committee, which is in a poor position to do so, will have to set priorities. A wey needs to be found for priority setting, and also a way needs to be found for raising funds from private sources for the increased arts program. Regardless of the outcome of the school tax vote, it appears that the arts programs in the schools are doomed to a cutbacx which erns there will be more pressure on the city, Nobody is available to study the situation and make recommendations to the council, His preference is to establish an arts commission with the wembars to be selected by the council, and to continue the semi-annual arts forums as the chief vehicle for citizen i.npu t . 205- 2/25/74 Councilman Clay said that the continued motion set up a fifteen -member committee for six months and he understood Vice Mayor Pearson's motion to bypass what this fifteen-reaaber board may or may not have recommended to Council, assuming that one of the functions of this board was to set up an Arts Commission. Vice Mayor Pearson replied affirmatively. She said the time had coma for the Council to take a position and establish an Arta Commission, because the city needs an official ongoing body which will carry out functions such as determining priorities, goals for the future, raise money and perhaps lower the city budget in so doing. She explained that the notion that came from the Council last year was the result of an agreement net being reached on an Arts Commission, and at that time that motion was appropriate. Now, she felt that motion was no longer valid and that the time had now come to form an Arts Commission. Councilman Clay asked if the commission's charter would be essentially what had been in the motion. Vice Mayor Pearson said this was correct. In the ad hoc art commission recommendations, there were a couple of pages outlining potential goals and charges to an Art Commission. Councilman Clay asked if there were a number of cooperative programs between the city and the school district. Mr. Longacre said the city has worked primarily with the Music Depart- ment in the schools. Considerable time has been spent over the past several ye_rs exploring the arts programs in the schools and in the city and efforts made to see that the city arts department does not expand in the area of music, for example, because the schools are staffed at a level that city could not begin to equal. The hope is that the schools will carry on it: the area of music programming and expand their activities into the community with the city's support, which would include such things as the Roger Wagner appearance in Palo Alto, which was partially supported by city funds, the concept being that the activity was primarily for students but with some underwriting by the city, the parents could also participate. City hopes to develop a cooperative situation in the area of theatre where it in very strong, and the grant just received is for the purpose of developing Children's Day at the Theatre. Another example is tours through the cultural center, which involves the students viewing the exhibition, then having a workshop so they could experience an.art experience on their own. Staff is working on a cultural expansion program, and this kind of program is being funded in other communities through HEW or the National Endowment for the Arts, which would provide artists in the school, using community and school resources. Staff is working on long-range plans for the city arts program and hopefully these would be presented at the spring Forum, at which time citizens would have an opportunity to explore cooperation between the two agencies. Councilman Clay asked how these cooperative programs came into existence. Mr. Longacre replied that therm is an organization that was brought together by the school music program and the interested participants in the community program to explore cooperative ventures. Primarily, if an opportunity appears before the city, for example, Voices Incorporated, staff coutacts schools to find out if such an opportunity could be used as en educational program. When something colas up in the schools, and Stanford too, they approach the city. It depends upon who received the stimulation first, then one or more agencies are brought in to form a cooperative venture. tab 2/25/74 Councilman Sher asked if staff could give ( projection of the annual cost of an Arts Commission as compared to other cities' commissions or boards, and how did staff handle requests for new programs and funds, and are their problems involved which a commission might help solve. Mr. Walker stated that the lieraan Relations Commission gets an annual allocation of $7500 for direct expenditures, not including staff time. There is probably a cost of about $25,000 to $30,000 to staff and fund these expenditures of the Human Relations Commission. The Planning Commission, on the other hand, is quite a bit more than that, costing for instance $10,000 to $15,000 pea year just to reproduce their minutes. Mr. Longacre stated that after the first arts convention in 1972, it was decided that there were so many thinga that needed to happen in a well-rounded arts program that it would be unwise to duplicate in the areas of music, visual arts and film making to the same level of ser- vice and staff and equipment and facilities that city currently had in the areas of theatre. It was approved at that point that the city Arts Department look upon all the cultural organizations and arts activities in the community as being of the city's concern. Arts activities ahou d teke place and whenever possible and legal, the city should. support organizations to produce arts activities. In this way, for example, the West Bay Opera Company, who had been paying approximately $4000 per year for use of the community theatre, contracted with the city to present opera in the community, so that the city gets a portion of the revenue taken in from the sale of tickets. The same thing has been true with a number of other organizations. These contracts are negotiated and then put through the normal process in the arts office and passed on to the City Manager. Councilman Sher said he was interested in the individual. requests for dark rooms, dance programs, etc. Would these requests be better handled by an arts commission, or can the arts department deal with the requests and make recommendations. Mx. Sipel stated that the arts department budget is built along the sane lines as many of the other budgets. Citizen input is gotten through the Arts Forum, then the arts department prioritizes these things, recommending the budget to the City Manager. The Manager then works with the Arts Department reviewing the requests. His opinion is that the input from the art* community is excellent and that city does not really need input from any ' other sources. The policy -waking decision is where it ought to be, and that is with the city council. Mr. Sipel felt that the community at large was satisfied with the arts program in Palo Alto; otherwise, the citizens would make themselves heard. Mr. Loigacre said that in responding to the many requests he draws upon his experience in writing Capital Improvement programs, and also upon the fact that there 1s a five-year program for the cultural center. ?any items which will, be requested in the new budget do not indicate a budget increase; but the request is there so that funds already in existence can be allocated in that way, such as the upgrading of the cultural center auditorium which has been in the capital improvement program for at leaat one or two yeers. Staff response would be for those things which he could see some validity to and would recommend. Beyond that it goes to the City Manager, and then to Council. 2 0 7 2/25174 Councilman Seahrs stated that the biggest improvement during the past year was the reduction in antagonism, bu: he noted that the staff, in Mr. Walker's report, suggests that their overall assessment continues to be that the Arts Forum concept represents the most effective and reasonable means of receiving citizen participation in arts programming. He is in favor of this, but -he had hoped that the forum would have directed more attention to establishing a degree of priority. He asked Mrs. Pearson if the commission must be limited to arts, and perhaps it should also include recreation. If it were decided to approve a -commission, how would representation be selected. He expressed his concern about an individual finding himself up against an elitist group, but that if the representation is appropriate, this handicap may be reduced. Vice Mayor Pearson replied that she felt an arts commission would be a worthy effort now. In choosing members for an arts commission, there would be advertisements avd interviews by the council, and those people interested in art would be those applying. Decisions would be made on the basis of an individual's shown interest in the art world and on their knowledge. Councilman Beahrs commented that those who have manifested a high degree of interest and competence would have a goo a chance of being selected to be on the commission. Queenie Amirian, 553 Patricia Lane, said that she was chairman of the Arts Forum Committee, having been elected last June, which committee had fourteen members. The committee met for five months, and there was complete harmony and seriousness in preparing the agenda for the forum, which was held on November 3, 1973. It is true that there were about one hundred people in attendance, but some of them were indivi- duals representing large organizations. At the forum the arts commwl- ity was cooperating and working diligently toget"er for the first time. They did set up their goals but that does not mean that they expected them to be carried out today or tomorrow. The forum provides a citizens committee always present and available to work with the arts committee. Meetings of the forums are open to the public and many citizens come and participate in the deliberations, and it was her hope that at the next forum priorities will be set up. Whereas a year ago there was dissension there is now complete unanimity. Mrs. Amirian spoke against the idea of having an arts commission. She said creativity thrives on freedom, and art does not want a committee from above telling them what to do. Art needs independence. She ended the staff for doing such an excellent job, pointing out that every time they set up a new project they invited specialists from the community to help them. Palo Alto's risme In the field of arts is gaining in stature, and people are attending the art functions. She feels that people in tine will think in terms of doing for the arts department what the arts department has been doing for therm. She sated up that an arts commission would squelch the enthusiasm of the citizenry, and would duplicate the work that the members of the community are now doing without any expense to the city. Mt. Morton Lichtaan, 3911 Grove Avenue, said that he and Mrs. Amirian are in many ways diametrically opposed in the arts areas and in slue of the ways that the arts problems would be attacked. One of the reasons the forum enjoyed harmony, he said, was that many people such as bi-r- self intentionally did not unharmonize it. The forums are an excellent 2O8 2/25/74 way of communicating, but he wonders what they can in fact accomplish other than one definite way of communicating with the citizenry. He felt that the forums represented a narrow segment of the community, and so he was concerned about the staff's feeling that the forum was an effective and reasonable means of achieving citizen participation. He said that the citizens .of other cities which have Arts Commissions feel that Palo Alto is nuts for not also having one, because the city has all the money in the world, all the facilities, and it was his firm belief that an official advisory board to the council was needed. He reminded council that last year in his remarks he said there was no opposition to the ides of having public forums because they are a good communication link between community and staff. But the concept that semi --annual foruma.alone would best accomplish the goal of keeping the arts program responsive to diverse and sometimes competing com- munity needs and interests, was opposed. While public forums are a good system for periodic input and feedback, it was not believed that the forums -only concept would best serve the public. He stated that he is very much in agreement with forming an official advisory body to be appointed by the Council. Mr. Robert Chalmers, 450 Adobe Place, said that once again the problem of an arts planning is before council, and so once again was he. He stated that he was among those who urged the city to create the cultural center and an arts department a few years back, and that he now felt concern for their ongoing welfare, the main concern being the need for long-range leadership that will ensure the flourishing of these insti- tutions for as long as there is a Palo Alto. Mr. Chalmers quoted a question which Mr. Amirian had asked some time back, which was, "Why shouldn't Palo Alto be the Athens of the future?" That is a splendid vision which could receive real consideration. He would like Palo Al.to to be as well known as a center for the arts as it now is for high technology. All of the necessary assets are what Palo Alto has today: people with talent, enthusiasm, time, and money, except for the last item on the list -- leadership. It is Mr. Chalmers' view that the focus of such leadership should be the government of Palo Alto, and that is why he urged an arts commission a year ago. At that time it was felt that such positions would be occupied by persons of narrow limiting vision, rather than broadening and enlightening vision, but he stated that he does not share such a pessimistic view. He asked what goals should be achieved by 1984, and what are the proper standards to use to measure the performance of an Arts Department. Should the city be in the arts business? Is the city accomplishing all it should be? Are we serving all the citizens who are paying for the arts department? An arts forum is a far cry from the kind of leadership that he is talking about. An arts forum is a method of collecting a bag of suggestions albeit from a disappointingly small number of people. You will get no long-range planning from a forum approach, but rather you would probably get programs that would be broader and shallower year by year. He stated that he is not knocking the present system, but that its only merit of long-range plans In the area of arts is that in being unplanned it is better than being badly planned. Mr. George Crane, 18`2 Bret Harts. Street, addressed the problem of arts planning.: Last fall the Forum dealt with budget, but did not have the foresight to deal With priorities also; however, at least items that people in the community wanted to have in the budget were presented. He commented that the forum provided the first tine that he observed 2 0 9 2/25/74 interdisciplinary cooperation.among the arts. The big queetion is how to be assured that the arts department program meets community needs. The forum's big function is to provide feedback to the arts department. The forum in the spring will have for its theme "An Eye to the Feature," and will try to make an effort to produce long-range planning through community action. He commented that the city is one hundred twenty days away from enactment of the budget, ninety days away from the day that you really need to have the input for the budget to finally consider it, and sixty days away from the forum. He felt that requests that came through the forum were modest and ;►easonable. What really needs to be looked into is setting of priorities and goals for the next ten years. In the spring forum, there will he mornings devoted to individual art areas and setting their goals and priorities, and in the afternoon caucuses will work together to enlarge upon the success of the last forum. Mr. Crane ended his comments with an invitation to everyone to attend the forum, participate and make judgments, :per. Marty Markoff, 375 North California Avenue, commented that one of the items requested, a concert bench, would cost less than one -sixtieth of $30,000, which is a rough figure for an arts commission. He said he could not understand the attraction of a body merely because it is official. The principle of cooperative support is surely preferred. Why would a cooperator prefer something which would in the end be far less inclusive? He stated that an arts commission does not guarantee preferable long-range planning. Mr. Markoff felt it was not correct to equate the amateurs and the artists who were involved in the forum with a special interest group, nor did he feel there should be support for a plan which tends to drive artists from active participation. Those who are involved in music and art hesitate to be involved as they are in the planning and he felt that an official body would simply drive them out. He cave as an example Mr. Bufano, who faired very poorly with the art commission in San Francisco. Re nointed out that the forums are larger than the number mentioned because there is a turnover from forum to forum, and even if there were only one hundred eighteen that would be at least ten times as large, inclusive and flexible as any arts commission, and membership is in no way governed by any other body. His summation was that the present system works and he saw no reason for changing a working arrangement for one that would be official. Mr. Lemuel Amirian, 553 Patricia Lane, stated that the problem is simply whether you want a body, the arts cosmsmuuaity and neighboring area, to be ruled from above or below; to grow under the compulsion, the dic- tation from above or to grow inherently within its own motivation. He said that some years ago he challenged the council to think of Palo Alto as the future Athens of ,America, or at least of Californte, and reminded those presnt that Athena was not governed from above, but elected Pericles and others. The people in the arts forum are enthusias- tic and self-sacrificing to devote their time and energy to this par- ticular interest. Don't put something above these people to stifle their enthusiasm, energy and, hopefully, their eventual, success in making Palo Alto the Athens of California. Councilman Rosenbaum said he attended a large part of the arts forum and was reasonably ispreseed with the planning that went into it, and a number of ideas case eut of it which ore being -evaluated by staff. Re did not feel that thy.' budget that will come to council will be any larger than last year's budget, with the exception of salary increases 1 2 1 0 2/25/74 1 1 for existing personnel. He felt that the one thing lacking was some way of continually acting on the ideas, which a continuing body could do. Mr. Rosenbaum said it was obvious that the arts community was split on this issue, and he could not see the virtue of proceeding at this time. The forums have potential, and should go on for a while. If the conclusion is made that they cannot do the job, then other proposals could be considered. He said he was willing for the time being to continue with the forum and put the commission idea aside: Councilman Norton said the minutes of April 23, 1973 made it evident that the sole purpose of the mover of the motion, Mr. Rosenbaum, requesting a continuance, was to give the forum a chance to see if it would work, and it was his opinion that the system has worked very well. It was agreed by a great many people that the forum improved the arts program, the role of staff in the program, etc. He felt that it was time to put the idea of a commission to rest. Councilman Norton suggested that if Carmel spends forty dollars per year per citizen and has an arts commission, and the function of the, com ission in that case has been to lobby for budgetary items rather than against, and this were translated to Palo Alto, it would be phenomenal. He submitted that the present system of having staff pare down requests to a number that could be reasonably considered is working; therefore, he recommended voting against the motion. Councilman Berwa1d stated that the background material was interesting and useful, but hardly covered all the hours that preceded the motion that was made which council would be acting upon. One of the things that also happened was a petition by a large number of people who made a strong case against an arts commission, and they were quite surprised to even have it continued. He said that what was heard tonight con- vinced him that there is no need for an arts commission, and that he hoped all the positive attitudes that were evident would continue to prevail in the forum. He said he opposed this motion, and if it is defeated would like to move the recommendation of the City :Manager. The substitute motion failed on the following vote: AYES: Comstock, Henderson, Pearson NOES: Beahrs, Berwald, Clay, Norton, Rosenbaum., Sher MOTWA: Vice Mayfly Pearson moved, seconded by Beahrs, that the material from the fall Arts Forum; plus the discussion of the best method of assessing the arts program, be it forum, commission, or board, be referred to the Finance and Public Works Committee for its use in conjunction with a review of the proposed arts department operating budget for 1974-75 and the Capital Lmprovements Program for 1974-79. SUBSTITUTE MOTION: Councilman Berwald moved, seconded by Norton, that the recommendation from the City Manager that the material from the fall Arts Forum be referred to the Finance and Public Works Committee for its use in conjunction with a review of the proposed arts department operating budget, and that the Arta Forum be continued to be used as the principal avenue for citizen participation in the arts. Councilman Norton ask. -11 for support for Councilman Berveld's substitute notion, because the Pearson motion keeps the commission idea alive, and he felt ip: was evident that the majority of council would not support it. See p. 282 2 1 1 2/25/74 Vice Mayor Pearson said if the referral passed she would expect the Finance Committee to address itself to the best ways of getting a good budget before council from the arts department, and whether that should be a continued use of forums, commissions or boards, and they should have that right. If you stick on the end that they can talk only about forums that would limit the breadth ,zf their discussion, and she would hope the chairman would exercise his prerogative and di3cuss whatever he feels like in the committee meeting and not limit the discussion to forums. The substitute motion passed on the following vote: AYES: Beahrs, Berweld, Clay, Norton, Rosenbaum, Sher NOES: Comstock, Henderson, Pearson ou rnment The meeting adjourned at 12 midnight. ATTEST: APPROVE: Ctiv.4%.„ City Clerk 212 2/25/74 Mayor