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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10141975CITY CCUNCIL Minutes Regular Feting October 14g 1975 CITY MLO (IITQ __ITEM PAGE Ural Communications 2 8 4 Consent Calmar - Action Items Resolution re Vacation of an Easement - Cooperative Society of Palo Alto 2 8 4 Stern City Center Courtyard Improvements: Award of Construction Contract 2 8 4 Resolution re South Many Dischargers Authority -- Rotund of Grant Moneys 2 8 5 705 San Antonio Avenue re tego1ution Amending Development Plan - Property Zoned PAC 2 8 5 Consent Calendar - Referral Items Municipal Golf Course Recommendations 2 8 5 Solid Waste Management Pien for Santa Clara County 2 8 5 Policy and Procadvres Committee Recommendations re Webster Site 2 8 6 Policy and Procedures Committee Roosssands re Rental Rates - City -Owned Property and Power Parcels 2 9 9 Executive Session re Litigation 3 0 1 703 Webster Street Tentative Bub -Division Nap (10 Coa4ci nine Unite) Application of Cowper Eton Building, Inc. 3 0 1 Veterans Daildih / l eI CAo5, SY,0 /44_„P 3 0 3 706 Carper Street Ordinance to tangs Zoning Prom 14 To P -C 3 1 4 Bequest of Couact1.v.sobsrs Witherspoon, Barmaid sad Norton Ws. E nrjiav of City's Tyre Care Policy Segsrwt of Councilman Eyerly re Pes.ibls County o few $1 ComlnoPage Bill Undarpsu 3 1 6 Meting of October 20 Cancelled 3 1 9 212 10/14/73 ITEM (Continued) PAGE Veterans Day Holiday 3 1 9 Oral Communications 3 1 9 Adjournment 3 1 9 October 15, 1975 Special Executive Session 3 2 0 10/11/75 October 14, 1975 The City Council of the City of Palo Alto met on this date at 7:45 p.m. in a regular meeting with Mayor Norton presiding. PRESENT: Barvald, Carey, Clay, Eyerly, Norton, Sher, Witherspoon ABSENT: Eeahre, Comstock None. CONSENT CALENDAR - ACTION ITEMS Mayor Norton removed Item 6 from the Consent Calendar. Na explained that if Council approved the subdivision (1003-1011 Colorado Avenue) as it was proposed tonight, there would be a problem later in having an inconsistent vote on the resolution authorizing execution of the died to cell city - owned parcels. His information from i•.he pre -council aerating wee that staff would prepare a further resolution and have Council take both actions simultaneously. MOTION: Haycr Norton moved, seconded by Carey, that this matter be cvnti.n- use to the meeting of October 28, 197S. The motion passed on a un.animoue vote. Mayor,Norton asked if Coumciimembsrs vere ready to vote on the remaining. items of the Consent Calendar. Councilmen Sher and kerwaeld requested to remove Item 4 -regarding tbs application of Cowper -Hamilton Building, Inc. for a- Te>stetivae Subdivision Mep(1O Condominium Units) to be tasted at 715 Webster Street. Mayor Norton mid this natter would Menem It. 1€P -A OA tbs regular aria. The following items wars left for voting on tbae Consent Calendar; INSWILN140. 5 56 oatitled "ASSOLUTION Or TIR COMM 04 ros c Tr OW PALO ALTO ORDERING TN& VACATIO0 Or AM WINENT POI ALLE'd, MEMO LAYI8, ITV= AO Pal 1411116 IN T%Z VICINITY OW PA*K MODISVARD aSTW2111 carroaxii Arms Sr A CAMIN A ,,t,1' "a et .:Ivi.°1+ •. air 0.'4 The staff recammaada that the City Council 1, rind that this project 1444#►s amigattim tavtriassat44 bowl;. 314 *0/14/73 2. Authorize the Mayor to execute the construction contract with Palo Alto Landscaping Company, Inc. in the amount of $30,432.14 SOLUTION RE SOUTH BAYDISCHARGERS The staff recommends thAt the City Council approve the resolution for the disposition of grant funds as requested by the South Bay Dienhargers Authority and that this refund be distributed to our partnere in the Regional Water Quality Control Plant as stipulated in the agreements providing for the sharing of costs for the steady. RESOLUTION NO. 3157 entitled "RESOLUTION OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PALO ALTO APPROVING RESOLUTION NO, 73-9 OF THE SOUTH BAY DISCHARGES AUTHORITY APPROVING PAYMENT or CERTAIN SUMS OF MONEYS RECEIVED BY THE AUTHORITY FROM STATE AND FEDERAL GIANTS TO CERTAIN CITIES AND DISTRICTS" RESOLUTION NO. 315$ entitled "RESOLUTION OF THE COUNCIL OF TI4t CITY OF PALO ALTO AMENDING THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN APPLYING TO CERTAIN PROPERTY ZONED PMC AND LOCATED AT 705 SAN ANTONIO AVENUE" The four items which remained on the Consent Calendar were adopted/approved by a unanimous vote. CONSENT CALENDAR - REFERRAL ITS Mayor Norton asked If Council were ready to vote on the Consent Calendar -- Referral Items. The following itea:sas:re left for voting on the Consent Calendar - Referral Items. ?IONS (C :508:5) It vas recommended bl°. staff that Council refer this matter to the -finance end Public Works Committee for detailed study with City staff and consultants. It urea recommended by staff that the City Council: I. Defer the draft Plan to the Policy & Procedures Committee for review, followed by a presentation to the Committee by Metcalf & Eddy; 285 10/14/75 t 1 • a. Request the Planning Commission to review and submit recommendations on the Palo Alto land use aspects of the draft Plana; end 3. Direct the staff to send the draft Plan to Stanford University and suggest that Stanford respond directly to the County Planning Department. MOTION: Councilman Bervald moved, seconded by Witherspoon that these refer- rals regarding 1) Golf Course Improvments and 2) Solid Waste Management Plan for Santa Clara County be approved. Tha motion passed on a unanimous vote. rice Nayor Clay said that the Policy and Procedures Committee considered the Webster. Site during their meeting of September 23. As a result cf that meeting, the action as stated on the agenda was what he was presenting to the Council. MOTION: Vice Mayor Clay moved in behalf of the Policy and Procedures Com- mittee its recommendations re the Webster Site - issues involved in develop- ment and Palo Alto Housing Corporation Recommendations: 1. That CounciJ authorize the Palo Alto Sousing Corporation to negotiate with the State Housing Finance Agency and/ or HUD the terns and conditions under which the City's landbanked Webster property can be developed utilizing Section 8 subsidy funds; 2. That su'eject to Council approval of the method of selec- tion of the development team, Council authorize the Palo Alto Housing Corporation to select a development team and thereby to undertake the preparation of a proposal for development of the Webster site for City approval; 3. That if Council approves the recommendations of the Policy and Procedures Committee; Council ask the PARC to report back in 90 days on progress made, Vice Mayor Clay stated that in each Councils+ ber's packet there was a proposed addition to that motion and he read the following : "That the Council recognizes that the approved development plan of the Planned Community Zone for the Webster site can be modified, after following established amendment procedures, if circumstances warrant modification. The Council, therefore, authorisers the Palo Alto Hous- ing Corporation in negotiating $eciou 8 subsidy funds and preparing a development proposal, to consider retention of none or leas than saves'eaciitia "buildings onthe site with- out increasing the overall density, decreasing the over- all open space, increasing building height, or otherwise: modifying major features of the approved development plan." Meyer Morton said that the stated addition was not part of the Committee's retommemdation. It would be appropriate to call Council's attention to it at an appropriate time. Mayor Morton asked Mr, George 81pel, City Manager, if he bed any comments or presentations concerning the Webster site. Mr. Sipe.' $ response vas negative. Mayor Norton then asked the counciiammbsrs if they had any /ueetioers . 286 10/14/75 Mayor Norton pointed out that Council had before them corrections to the Policy and Procedures Committee minutes of September 23, 1975, from the City Clerk's office, regarding the Webster Site. AMENDMENT: Mayor Norton moved, seconded by Clay, that the corrections submitted be incorporated with the Policy and Procedurce Committee minutes. Councilman Sher had a question about the proposed addition to the auction. He &aid that he did not hear the first part of Vice Mayor Clay's state- ment. He sacked Vice Mayor Clay where this proposal came from. If this was not committee action, but a proposal for modification, he wanted to know where it originated. Vice Mayor Clay replied that he eras not sure who was responsible for it. Mayer Nortou stated that he had asked the staff to prepare an additional motion in conjunction with the discussion that took place in the pre -Council meeting. H4 added that at the appropriate time be would make a motion for approval. Councilman Suer said that it was obvious that there was no discussion in the Committee's minutes that had any relation to this proposal so he was uncertain to the background of it. Mayor Norton reiterated that it was prepared at his instigation and was cot part of the motion on the floor at thie time. The amendment re corrections to the minutes passed on a unanimous vote. Mayor Norton said the Policy and Procedures Committee's recommendations were before Council for discussion, Mr. Kenneth Berroga, representing ?tidpeniasula Citizens for Fair Housing, read the follo-ting letter: "I am Kenneth Barroga ,speaking for Midpeninauia Citizens for Felr Housing. The Webster Street site and the potential use of it has been one of cur concerns for several years. The Palo Alto Housing Corporation is asking aid recommending that they be afforded maximum flexibility to work out the ramifications of the development of Webster site with the State Rou.ing Finance Agency And/or the Department of Rousing add Ti n Development. Midpenixs to Citizens for Fair Housing feels that in order to expedite development of the Webster site, the Palo Alto Rousing Corporation should be authorized by the Council to select a development team and consequently undertake the prsperstion of a proposal for development of the Webster site subject to final approval by the City Councl. Thank you." Councilmen Sher said that .be would like to renew the question he raised earlier. He would be interested to hoar about the background and purpose of the proposed addition to the Committee's recommendation. Mayor Norton stated that be would be pleased to eeplain why he felt it important to bra this before the Council. however, he preferred to do that at the time he sake. the motion, Haoyor Norton said that the Committee's recommendation wea on the floor at this time. 287 10/14/75 Councilman Carey said he voted against the Committee's recommendation so he felt compelled to say a few words about his decision. He was still concerned about the procedures that Council is embarking upon. Primarily, his concern was that tt is apparently kind of a chicken and egg act with the State. He said that the State did not know what it was going to do, or what its guidelines were going to be. He said the State was just groping along; it tentatively has some money that is going to be put into some select projects. However, the guidelines or selection procedures are obviously not established. At the awe time, the Housing Corporation appeared before the Policy and Procedures Committee and said, in effect,. it wants to be appointed by Council to go the State in Sacramento end obtain the meaoaey to build the Webster Site. Yet the Housing Corporation was unable to say to the Policy and Procedures Committee whether the development will be built with a non-profit corporation as developer or limited dividendcorporation as developer. It could not say who the development team would be, nor could it say how it would select that development teem. Councilman Carey said his concern was that because of the many utekraowns, he was unwilling to recommend what amounted to as gigantic unknown. His question to the Housing Corporation was could they not go to the State and say "Look, the City has thie property and has had it it several years. It hae a preliminary development plan; here it is. The City is desirous of developing this site with a housing mix. We want some of your funds." Councilman Carey said the answer he receive=d .from the Houairag Corporation was negative in that the proposal would be insufficient; that they would have to go to the State with more specifics. He said that this was the dilemma that hn was faced with tonight. At this point, he w.3uld rather see the Housing Corporation begin the negotiations with the State to get sake commitmes._, but without the Council having locked itself in to the selection of firms or` individuals to make up the team to develop the site, without knowing the procedures by which they are to be selected and without knowing the form of entity that will develop this project. Apparently at this time, Council cannot get the anowers to these questions. Council- man Carey reiterated his dilemma as to the question why the City cannot, through the Housing Corporation, go to the State of Califoantaa and say that the City of Palo Alto is interested in State funds; the city has owned a site for many years and is intereatad in developing a housing nix on that site, and see what the State's reeactior, is. Apparently that is not sufficient and therefore, the Policy and Procedures Committee recommendations as etated trey before the Council. Mayor Morton stated that assuming any action was taken tonight, Council would not be locking themselves in irrevocably to a procedure or anything of that nature. He said the a pescific question before them was the method of aeealect- ing a dovelopm ut teem and thsat may be a matter that would be of legitimate concern. Councilman Carey said he did not share Mayor Morton's conclusion on this matter. He felt that the city mould be locking themselves into a procedure. The Ctty would be inextricebly drawn doom the funnel as it pros a rod to Sacramento, and represented that this is the developer; this is the team; thee* are the players; and we went your money. As Council dons that, it is locked in to whoever is involved. Couneilm n Carey considered tha Council was caking a very significant commitment tonight. Councilwomee Witherspoon asked Mr. Louis Goldsmith, repreeenting Palo Alto Mousing Corporation, if the contemplated visit from WI Peat rosters, recently of the Maseachhaetts Mousing Finance Ag.scy, took place during the first part of October. If so, did Mt. Goldsmith know any more now than he did before? Mr. Goldsmith replied that Mr. Gestate bad not crass to Pelo Alto yet.- PARC keew that they, were very busy ug there send 472 effort to get in touch with then, vas still being cede. The one thing that Mr. teeter had asked for was that they subralt a three pegs malls* of the 'bread brweh particulars for the proposal. lactlostallye included in that outline are to he the ire Zia 10, 14173 :J of the development team. And since Councilman Carey in particular is very concerned about this, PAHC had given cnnsiderable thought to this. Mr. Goldsmith said he would say as a basic point, that the Council is most certainly not locked into anything by getting someone to start the wheels in motion on this proposal. There is a long, long road to travel down, assuming, of course, that the State would like the site, which is the very first thing that has to happen. It is conceivable that it can be done with market rate money in the ten percent range but Mr. Goldsmith said it is very doubtful that a viable project could be built, since no one in the private sector is building apartments these days with that kind of cost of money. lie assured Council that the Housing Corporation intends to be very circumspect in selecting the members of the development team. One reason PAHC had not come up with any specific ideas on this is there are so many fuzzy features to the whole program. After all, the State only got into business officially ten days ago, and is still not sure when they will have the money. Hopefully, that will be January. But the State does have a lot of projects and most of the projects are for the elderly. Very few people were submitting projects for the family, the reason presumably being that family projects can be one hundred percent Section d subsidized with no questions asked; whereas, the avowed intention of family ua;ita$ is to have an economic mix meaning presumably anywhere from twenty to eighty percent market units. Whoever has those market unite is taking the risk of being able to rent them at the market rate and still have a viable project. Mr. Goldsmith said that their plan would be to follow ace of the procedures that the city itself uses. He said that Mr. Naphtali Knox, Director of Planning and Commuufty Environment, was generous enough to give the PAHC copies of the city's own procedures for selecting architects and engineers and it was an elaborate process. In general, it was pointed to something specific when one went in. A consultant does a specific job that one can outline pretty well. One problem here is, indeed, it is a chicken and egg process. It is developed as one goes along; one does not know how much the costs are until one has some designs and some estimates and ore works back and forth between how much rent one can get, and how much the development is going to cost. Tied into that is how much can one get for the ?and that the city has landhanked for three years. It is a casplicated process and the PARC does not have the playing cards in their hands. At the Policy and Procedures meeting he had stated that the first step would be to go to the State, find out whether or not the site qualities end if it does, these try to put package together. In that process it would be necessary for the PARC to consult wit% a number of architects and potential builders and thereby see which teas would seas to be the best group of people. It sight be necessary that some of the members of that tae advance soma front money in order to get the pro j act under way. One other thing rationed by Councilman Carey was whether it would be etr-ictly non-profit, or a limited dividend, or strictly a privete venture. Mx. Goldsmiths said be could state pretty clearly that e non-profit Corporation alt by itself would not have a prayer. PARC did not have any money; it could not do anything without money. Therefore, a ton -profit organization, such as a (lousing Corporation, would have to pull in inns$tors from the 'rivet* sector in some fashion or another, probably through a limited partnership end in tbi'way, which has been widely practiced with tie kinds of projects, one cold receive enough money to satisfy the Internal Isvrenws Service a to net worth and to generally asks it possible ta.+ run a project without booing broke before this project is started. As to the pstivasaa sector slots, that is possible. PARC bed talked to four or five different groups, one of whom has indicated that they .might be intaa eatsd in going in straight away. Rut one of the qualification* would be that they would ant one hundred percent Section S. Hs personally believed that it was very doubtful that it 259 10/14/75 } Co would be given by the State fora family housing developmen, but this would not be known for sure until PARC had a chance to talk to the State. At this time, Mr. Goldsmith said that all he could suggest was that they get on with the process, after three and one-half years delay, and see if it is possible to work out something. He said that PARC has started repeatedly that they will keep everyone informed and if necessary, he would be bask to go through whatever steps the Council may feel is accessary to be aura that the PARC is not discriminating against anybody who could conceivably coxatribute in some way to the development of the proposal. Mayor Irton asked if there were any questions. Councilmen Berwald asked if it would be possible to have the Housing - Corporation recommend to the Council a deseelopment team and have the Council accept the development tears. He asked if that wee how the motion was stated. Mr. Goldsmith replied that, yes, PARC could return to the Council as many times as Council so desired with recommendations of who should be used, but did not know if they could go into detail en how they arrived at their preference. He said that this business of deciding wtacoa arra should use among competent, qualified people is a very subjective process. He commented that he happened to be a management consultant himself and the process of proving that one is more competent than t:aa next parson or that you are the better person to do the ,fob than someone else generally seems to cove down to a deci.eAon based upon how one seemed to look at that particular time. There are many subjective factors that enter into it and Mr. Goldsmith did not know how to qualify or to makes it specific so that Council could draw up any set of rules, and pick a person based on a ceetain score. He did not know how to make those scores. But he stated that they could moat carteinly cow back en}time and either inform Council of whom they had interviewed or allow Council to select interviews. Councilman Berwald stated that it seemed to him that ell of Mt. Goldemitb's arguments really pointed to his conclusion. After listening to Mr. Goldsmith and Councilmen Carey, and reading Councilman Carey's questions in the Committee minutes, which have act been answered to his satisfaction, his sug- gested moving the original committee motion, wbith tram made by Councilman Comstock and seconded by Councilmaa Carey, that Council would go ahead se tb that step first in contacting the &ousine Titmice Ageacy. Than when that step is completed, rove beck and begin to discuss what kind of an organisation you need to deal with. Councilman Bervsld said he bed some built in bias toward the private sector being able to develop property for bowies; given the opportunity to do so, in a shortener period of time than it took the City. The City has been hanging on to this property for three and one-half years, mi g cerryin* costs, and denying housing to a number of people, with the exception of tunes pretty swrgiea1 properties that Cecil bae allowed to exist. Councilman Serveld said be realised how much fr. Goldemith vented to get on with the job and that ha strongly sobered thugs feelings. But if there wee no assurance of $ trine on with the ,fob it might result is no a e4tst speed than wales sada in the last three and one-half years. Re wait it epos incumbent upon the mil to take one step at a time; to take the next step after ?ARC votarrns with some *severe fr and the Finance Agency end gives the Council * picture of how to proceed from there. Secondly, as much confidence as be bees in the Rousing Corporatioe end their se pertios. he was not sure that he would crest any agency other than Gomel', to select the developer. But iar this Luanne*. be mould vent this *wine Corporation to i stsrvier the development tom, as eteff old interview consultants, then enured Sae the Coil with their selection end eve the �il endorse it or ratify it. Is reitiirastoi that so goy of the toast/amp We not Uses a uswe red. Vs semi that Wit. Goldsmith mentioned that the ' aIrc ; a" 0 0 :ion -profit route would not be possible, that the limited dividend seemed to be the best possibility and that is not a non-profit organization by any means. The for profit is out of the question at the present time because it appears the for profit individuals or groups want to develop ** entirely Section 8 project. He did not want an entirely Section 8 project and believed that the PAHC did not want that either. Councilman Remold said he agreed with Councilman Carey that it should be handled one step at a time. Mr. Goldsmith responded that inevitably, the process of returning to Council for the resolution of whom the development team could be would add at least : couple of months to the process. In dealing with the State it would be very helpful if one had recognized technical assistance along in the for of a developer, contractor, or architectural people. He thought they could involve some people in this way without obligating PARC or the city. In the latest memo; to the Council PARC noted :it was indebted to 6ssiatent City Attorney Dennis 1eCuir for the suggestion that PARC be sure that every contractor or every architect sign a disclaimer against any possible action against either the Housing Corporation or against the City for services rendered for which they may never get paid if the project does not get off the ground. In working with the State on what might be acceptable on the site, Mr. Goldsmith felt that the prccess would be considerably more complicated than simply saying, "How do you life the looks of it? Because one has to go through some form of feasibility and although that person has to do geite a bit of prelimf:'ary wok this does not commit one in any way. There are check points all along the line as the project goes through the normal city protease! - the Planning Commission, the Architectural Review Board, and back to the Council for approval. Alen, there is no way that the PAUC can have the exclusive rights to the development. if ao eoee from outer space came here and said that he would like to develop Webster Site, Mr. Goldsmith said he did not know of anything that would prsventhim from doing so. Mr. Goldsmith said he sensed an element of caution hers, 'but. the first thing to do la to select some people who are willing to work with you on a contingency basis until you find out whether or not you have any prospects of going ahead with the propose'. Some are willing to work that way; some are not; but he said PARC did not know who these people would be until they did more interviews and raised these Jaime, with them. Hr. Goldsmith said they could do it, but having gone through these tbinga before, he knows that the process is complicated enough, without having to check back with Council before proceeding to the nest step. That would be cumbersome and slow. That is the reeeoex that PARC bed recommended that they be given the ahthorisa►tion from Cecil to approach the State, and to put the development tease together, awl to wake a proposal which then would be subject to Council's approval. If Council did not like it. they could throw the vole thief out. Councilmen Hyea'iy stated that after locking at Colorado Park, and watching the gouaime Corporation for a few years, be believed that the Corporation had an expertise way beyond that of the Council. Of the Policy and Procedures Committs's recommendation in poragracph 3, it sa.aed to his that approval of the method of selection Sava the Council control that they need. `''here is a feeling that 1f Council should have further control and sake e noel approval of *stover group is selected for the duo tlopsetaa t be would pot be against that but he certainly would pot wait to do the iaatsrviewi g. He dfd sot . feel that the couacilwwbers qualified. 29 10/14/7$ Councilman Sher stated that he was confused about one point, regarding Mr. Goldsmith's earlier remark about the question of whether or not the qualifying clause was in Committee motion. It seemed to Councilman Sher that the way the motion reads on the Agenda, and the way it reads in the minutes, that subject to council approval of the method of selection of the development team, Council would authorize the Corporation to select a development team. He would understand that to meta that before anyone is selected, PAHC would have to return to the z ouncil and inform them how PAHC proposed to select the tom. Councilman Sher interpreted it that that was the clause that lair. Go1dsaacith did not think was pert of the Committee action. He said he thought that it was part of the Committee action, because in a sense it would sccomplieh what Councilman Carey was concerned about although it does not mean that the Council would not select any of those people. But if the PAUL would be informing Council of their procedures of selection and thet indeed is a part of the motion, PAHC would have in mind who they would select before the selection is made. Councilman Sher asked Mr. Goldsmith if this was the clause he was referring to. Mr. Goldssmith's respaanse was affinitive. Councilman Sher asked Mr. Goldsmith if he thought this was part of the Committee action and he atuwered, t°Ho, I didn't," air. Goldsmith said he asked Councilman Carey about it Later. He said it seemed stange to ask if the clause was part of the committee motion why Councilman Carey voted against it. He commented chat it did lead to some confusion, Councilman Sher stated that it was puzzling to him teo. He asked Hr. Goldsmith if he expected to return is Council with a statement of how PA!C was going to select a development team and to seek Council approval. within 90 days o He stated that fram an earlier remark tonight, Mr. Goldsmith hod suggested he would be trying to get people to participate on a volunteer or non -assured basis without staking the Council anything, Mr. Goldsmith replied that coasceraiog that part, he did not consider it coneitutead a development team. It would constitute a few people .,ho would confer with the State without committing anyone. He would not count that as the deaysiopmeht team. The development team would consi t. of a contractor to build the project, an architect to design it and miscellaneous other experts such an engineers, &loo ewisooe to beadle the financing arrangements, if it la a liaitead dividend arrangement, which be believed to be the soundest way. He *aid it is the only way that a non-profit corporation like PAC would be able to do the job. Thera were many firms nationwide who get together groups of investors for this purposes. Se referred to his memo of October $ and explained that the iiaited divideaad form of fiasncing requires either teas percent equity money in the case of a HUD deal, or five percent in the case of the State. It could be aor+e. Council would cave to find out who that group is then there is the question of whether . t ey _ sea pply part of the Toney for net worth. A gala web of people are involved and together they sake up the group that puts the project together. Coma's= Sher asked Ir. Goldsmith seeming that the Council adopted the ratove■aaae elation med. by the Committee as it appeared on the Agenda and in the minutes, brow would ?AMC propose to satisfy that. At what point would Mr.QAbleoltbretorn to Ceuecii to inform then of the method of eelectioo of the development team. Councilmen Scar said maybe answers to these queotione would satisfy the concerns of Councilman Carey. I. Goldsmith stated before PARC could notify anyone that he or ohs is a part of the development teem, that person would have to understand that it wee necessary for PAC to have Council approval. PAW would 292 10/14/75 obtain that approval by outlining to Council the procedure that they had used in discussing this matter with various people. The procedures would be outlined. For example, PABC already has a five page list of specifications that they have been discussing with people, sharing their views. They have two pages of questions about their general attitude toward the whole thing. It is now a question of how formal the Council wanted it to be. It is a matter of the extent to which the Council would want itself or any other designated group involved in the process, Councilman Sher said that he u daeratood Mr. Goldsmith to read the motion to mean "subject to Council approval of the selection of the development tea's*, Council authorize the Corporation to select the development team." In other words, PARC would coma forth with e method and identify some people and when it comes up for the approval of the team, PAHC is reelly reading the method out and that is what Councilman Carey is concerned about. Councilman Sher flaked when Mr. Goldsmith returned to the Council under this motion, would he describe the method which PARC would use to identify persons to be named to the development teas and ask the Council to approve them. Mr. Goldsmith said he thought this is whet Councilman Carey suggested in the Policy and Procedures Committee. de said he may be disi,rterpreting Councilman Carey, but he said the idea is first, if PAM would have to return with a method, -and then return again with the applied method, the process is being compounded. AMENDMENT: Councilman Sher moved, seconded by Berwald, an amendment to the motion "That subject to Council approval of the method of selec- tion of the development team . . " the wards "method of" be deleted and the motion reed "That subject to Council approval of the selection of the development team. . . "u Vice Mayor Clay stated that Council hen discussed the confusion of this process and the chicken and egg effect. But in order to get off of first base it would be better to gioe the Housing Corporation the authority to act as the City's agent right through to the development of the site, without detailed limitations, because that status would give them identity when going to whichever agency they chose to go to. He said that the language in the second paragraph "That subject to Council approval of the method of selection" will in itself be redundant because the last fed words in the paragraph ". . for City approval" was an esacommpasai.ng one, and would in fact get Council's hands out of this act aR little bit, and yet give Council the means to control it to the point they felt was necessary, including the selection of the development team or even the method of selection of tha development tease. The ninety day report of progress vas a milestone that gave Council a handle on tilts .entire process. Hs personally did not want to be involved in r detailed discussion at the Council level at this tiiee with respect to whether or ,sot this project should be non-profit, limited development, limited dividend or profit. These would be issue, to be worked out by the Housing Corporation acting as the City's agent, tb* a covering some of the leg work that Council would otherwise' be required to do. COUAtiliin Carey said he wanted to clear up the confusion about vb he voted against the second pert of the Committee's recommendation. He vas concerned about the method of selection of those who would participate in the development of this project. But the point that was overlooked vas that in whatever method is to be used now there are so many unknowns, and so many variables, than because of the vocertaiuty and because no one in his right mind can make an economic ssr aysis of this project and make decisions as to whether or not to become involved, at number of highly qualified specialists will be eliminated. Council say 293 10A4 /73 use the selection method now, but a lot of persons will be passed over by default. He referred to page 8 of the Policy and Procedures Committee minutes and why he had raised the question, First of all, it was not apparent till later in that meeting that what was really being requested hers was that the Housing Corporation of the City of Palo Alto would be the general partner of the limited partnership to develop the Webster site. Paragraph 2 of page 8 of the minutes refers to the issue Council would be voting on tonight. Secondly, the Webster site proposed for development is not similar to Lytton Gardens, Lytton Gardena is one hundred percent senior citizens' housing and therefore one very important variable was eliminated there which was not eliminated on the Webster site. The question was who suffers the burden of tenants who default in their rents. Councilman Carey said it was his understanding that in terms of the Webster proposal, and using a limited dividend approach under Section 8 for State funding, in the case of a tenant who does not pay his other rent, the loss of rent incurs to the owner of the project. That is not true at Lytton Gardens. Now, since this Council insisted that the Policy and Procedures Committee make no deciaicn or recommendation as to the percentage of housing mix on the site, Council tonight does not know whether or not there will be five percent subsidized housing, fifty percent subsidized housing, or one hundred percent subsidized housing. Since that decision has not yet been made, neither the housing Corporation, nor the State of California or any potentiie,l development team members know either. It is a very significant piece of information to have if Council has to decide whether or net to spend a lot of money or • time involvement in the project. If he were going to get involved, he would like to know what percentage of oubsidized housing is anticipated. He said if cne took a hard economical look at the project, if there are going to be defaulting tenants, the most likely place where they are going to occur is in the subsidized portion. And so the risks vary. If the risks vary, the question of whether or not to get into the project initially varies. Therefore, based on the lack of knowledge that Council has, the whole selection nrocesa as proposed today, does not make sense to him. Mr. Goldsmith responded saying he would like to correct the impression of Councilmen Carey. He said that a 236 project, which is what Lytton Gardens is, suffers t loss of any rent not paid by a tenant just as Colored° Park does. He added that at Colorado Park in three plus yearn experience, the loss of reots totals approximately $90.00. This is better than the experience of any kind of commercial housing that he had heard of. Under Section 8, there is uo basic difference; the owner suffers the lose of rent whenever a tenant does not pay his rent. All the owner can do is to ask for the rent or ask tenants to more. That is how it goes on .11 of these programs. He reiterated that there was no basic difference there. As to the percentage of sub- sidised unite that will be in the project, he agreed that no one at this stage knows whether it: will be twenty percent or one hundred percent, either tubeidised or market rate. The chances are it will be around fifty to sixty or maybe seventy-five percent subsidized. That is basic to the discussion with the State. Ha did not feel. that it would 'eke all that such dif2erencs, whether it would be twenty or forty psrceet market rate, as to bow to put the development tease together, He said treat. maybe Councilman Corey's experience was otherwise Councilmen Carey said that if the project wee one hundred percent subsidized, the risk void be reduced further. If Colorado Park's experience is that kind of collective rate, it is outstanding. But use said; the pietist is it is a variable today because a policy decision bad mat bares us441. He believed - that it made s dif lsresce Ms to who developed bed ho the ',OW t . d fie.' : tlsa selection of the devslopeemt teams 294 10/14/73 and the selection of the method by which the proposal would be developed was premature. He said he was perfectly willing at this time to see Mr. Goldsmith and the members of the Housing Corporation, whom he commended for the outstanding job that they had done for the City,to go to Sacramento and retrieve answers to questions that were not answered tonight. His concern and reluctance speaks to the second step. Councilman Strwald referred to a comment made by Mr, Goldsmith and something that appeared on page 9 of the committee minutes. He gathered that the kinds of people that Mr. Goldsmith would send, to Sacramento may not be the same in numbers or the seme people that Mr. Goldsmith would eventually refer to es his development teem. Councilman Bervald said that what Mr. Goldsmith really needed now ;gas a team of cosesultante to act se the City's' repreaentativex to the State. He supposed that )4r. Goldsmith needed to augment the .Housing Corporation Board with some consultants, He would be willing to go along with that idea. The difference in the overall development team would be me.`eing toe kind of commitment to that group to continue the development of the project. Mr, Goldsmith said PABC had already been to Sacramento. The Corporation wanted to have Mx. Goetere of the State come tc Palo Alto because he pre- sumably would have a great deal to say about which sites would be considered acceptable. He added that out of the firat hundred million dollars of revenue bond fu:3ds probably only about three or four thousand unite would be built during the next year. The State is going to be very fussy indeed as tc which projects are selected. They are looking for outstanding quality. Mr. Go:tere formerly worked with Massachusetts Housing Finance Agency which hes a great reputation of having done a wonderful job of providing first -rate quality, economical, integrated housing. PAHC would be ahooting for these same standards, within the constraints of rent limits, construction costs, and land costs. It would be vice to hcve a couple of people ready to sheet with Mr. Coeters. One does not crake any commitments until owwe begins to put a package together that says "If it looked like this, if it had these many units with this configuration, it would cost so much, therefore, it would require about so much rent and does it come within the fair market rent limit or perhaps doss the State think that they might have different limits an rent than HUD does?" PAHC doss not have the =swore to any of these questions and ter. Goldsmith did not think that the State does either. One Mars conflicting views an some of these points, but it is a process where one goee round in circles obtaining one piece of information at a time, putting it bask into the pusele and deciding whether or not one has s feasible project. This ways in reaching the point of feasibility aoalyais one hes not spent an awful lot of money. But when this point ids reached, one bas a pretty good working relationship with the people who have put some effort into the project and if it should go forward they old be the ones to participate in it. Councilman gerwe.ld said his question was would it be possible to take the first stop first. Hie final question via by the time PARC arrivee at that step that both he and Councilman Carey auggested, they would have a fairly good idea of whet the design would be. Ha said that PAW say net have as good an idea of feasibility as ' they might have. because they would be negotiating with one group of speculators or developers. The speculstivs risks would be lessened if the Corporation could -:.alt in another group by hawk a development competition. Mr. Goldsmith pointed out that one of that problems with the development competition is it is very expensive for the people who gat involved in it. If it wee a matter of just drools* pretty pictures thst would be aw thing but that 1e of nearly deep s:sough. One would have to have a ball park estimate of costs. He wee auto there vould be a die- cuesios with the City of bee each the lend is worth. These will 295 10/14/75 also be questions such as getting - ten percent higher rents maybe if HUD in San Francisco would agree or twenty percent higher if Washington would agree, but if that is part of the market rate units there still is the question of whether or not anyone would pay the market rates if they were jacked up ten or twenty percent above what HUD thought was fair. The Corporation would have to check out those things. He said he understood the principle of a competition very well and it is a good idea if competitors could get paid for the waork that they had dose. These people spend real money in order to say what they would like to build, with a one in four chance of basing selected. Most people - would say that thieves gsttiag down to the bare bones a Byway because all the fees are strictly limited and all the pricae have to be set through competitive bids. To do this under BUD rules would require a definite cost certification, with an outside CPA to certify the amount that was spent on the project including the agreed to fee or percentage fee, which is fixed in advance. Another way that makes better sense because it does give some flexibility in the construction is to select a contractor, work with that contractor and the architect of mutual choice:, than come forth with complete plans and specifications and which would probably cost at least $50,000, maybe $75,040. At that point, bids can be saolicited from sub -contractors and a close estimate ads of the coet to build the project. By that time, it would not be necessary to have a ono percent contingency. The competitive process is very important at the sub -contractor level, not the contractor level, because the contractor cs not make more than a specified percentage. The architect cannot receive more than a specified fee for the design and for the inspection during con ttruction. These things ,are all spelled out by the rules; that fa why the Corporation wrrote this outline of October 8. There jest is not enough rooms for competition. A sharp contractor working with his siAecontractor can aake changes as they go along that would help save soma money. Centrally they would split the savings between them. The sponsor -none; gets half; the contractor gets half for his trouble. But they are lucky in a $2,000,000 project if they can save $40,000, The process of building under any of these programs is a very tight one. There is not enough roo..om for any kind of competition in which people spend a lot of money and have thus take their chances eriei if they lose this ens, they could pad the next one enough to gat it back. !t just does not work that way. Vice Mayor Clay said that Council is still concerned about the basic iirsue, the level of iaspieses tstion detail that Council chooses to involve t ►1vsa with. It was very clear in his mind that tho recommendation by the policy and Procedures Camiaittse reflects that Council seats the Rousing Corporation to gather some of the davit and to do some of the work' that was Wog discussed tomight. The magnitude and volume of discussion that had taken plans so for tonight wee enough to turu him off with respect to getting involved in any greater detail of the development of Webster site. Council bee to start some- where awl adoption of any modified version of the policy and Procedures Committee's tecoomendetion is simply to take one more revolution around the circle. The controls ere here and he would expect the Mousing Corporation to return sad report to Council their expert opinion on the percentage of low moderato ve market. Ho believed that by time selection of the iloosiag Corporation Council bas stated the policy that Causal would prefer mixed housing on that land. Mee said that vu as far as mil nested to go at this point; they could coma back and disclose the details later. Mayor Morton said Councilman Sher's amendment was before them. The effect of that smemdmesxt would be simply to allow Council to approve the team rather than the seethed of selection of the tease. He said he felt it was safe to mums that any spprowsi et tee team would also &sands a review at approval of the semis by ash it wet selected. f!d 10/14/75 The amendment to the motion passed on the following vote: AYES: Clay, Berwald, Norton, Sher, Witherspoon NOES: Eyerly ABSTAIN: Carey The first part of the Committee's recommendation was passed on a unanimous vote. The second part of the Committee's recommendation as amended passed on the following vote: AYES: Clay, Eyerly, Norton, Sher, Witherspoon NOES: Carey ABSTAIN: Bertweld The third part of the Committee's recommendation which read as follows: "Council ask the PAHC to report back in 90 days on progress made", was passed on the following vote: AYES: Berwald, Clay Eyerly, Norton, Sher, Witherspoon NOES: None ABSTAIN: Carey MOTION: Mayor Norton moved, seconded by Berwald, that the Council recognizes that the approved development plan of the Planned Coemu ity Zone for the Webster Site CAS be codified, after following established amendment procedures, if circumstances warrant modification. The Council, therefore, authorises the Palo Alto Housing Corporation, in negotiating Section 8 subsidy funds and preparing a development proposal, to consider retention of none or less than seven a istieg buildings on the site with- out increasing the overall density, decreesing the overall open space, in- creasing building height, or otherwise. modifying major features of the approved development plan. limyor Norton said that at the pre -Council matins, it rear brought to his attsation that there wore coasideeabl.s questions as to i ether the aavon Miasma proposed to be retained ware the correct amber of houses and whether or not the developmeet teem vho bad design the ultimate proposal ought to be locked in so tightly into the con- figuration of existing buildings. Some of those bowers may not be well worth retaining, and their retentions may substantially impair flexibility of a good pits plan process. Mayor Norton said that in his motion he wanted to inject flexibility mad ire no my bad intended to indicate that all seven houses be deleted or evea any of thew be deleted. 14s reiterated his feeling that there would be merit in leevin come flexibility than there wee to date in the pi a"ning pro- cedure, He said he wee aware that the previously approved rigs plan represented the thinking and planning of a lot of people, but he believed it was tan rigid. 2 9 7 10/14/75 Councilman Sher said he could appreciate Mayor Norton's desire for flexibility and he noted the question of the seven houses was raised at the Committee meeting by Councilwoman Witherspoon. But it seemed to Councilman Sher that the ;emotion singles out one aspect of the P -C Development Plan that the Council has approved and does not mention Correcte&ny aspects. So the flexibility that Mayor Norton would like to pg. 413III communicate to State and Federal officials only relates to that one item. Councilman Sher suggested that if Mayor Norton really wanted to suggest flexibility he would end hie motion at the end of the first sentence and simply state that "the Council recognizes that the approved development plan of tha Planned Community Zone for the Webster site can be modified, after following established amendment procedures," But there is a -development plan on board that was approved. He said if one looked at the plan one would notice there are a certain Corrected number of units spread out in a certain number of ways on the acreage. Pg. 413 Mayor Norton's motion is addressed to just one aspect of that arrangement. He stated that there is danger in this sort of reaction because some people may interpret it as an abandonment of the concept of trying to save as many single family re.sidencei on that parcel as it is worth saving and as can be accommodated -to the plan in order to provides an orderly transition to the single family neighborhood that the Council was concerned about at the time the development plan was approved. The mvtiou as stilted informed them that the plan can be changed regerding the seven existing buildiugs but that one does not want to increase the overall density or decrease the overall open space or increase the building height or otherwise modify major features of the approved aevelopment plan. Councilman Sher said he agreed with the first three items; that Council would not want to do those things. He said these things were considered at the time Council decided how man; units should be there and what kind of open space should be built into this development plan. }however, the motion also read that Council did not want to modify any major features, but Councilman Bnxwald had suggested earlier that in running this through the State agency and the Federal agency the plan may satisfy their requirements, but it could become necessary to alter some other features; not jest the seven units. There is, therefore, a problem in limiting it the way the motion is currently stated. If it is desired to simply inform the officials that this is not locked in concrete, that this is * P -C Development Plan and the plan was approved when the city did not hove any developers or any funds to develop it, and what was done could be undone following the procedures for zoning, Councilmen Sher suggested that the notice end after the first sentence, and not go further in singling out -the seven single fanny residences and not to include the last clause stating Council would not modify other major feature aecaauae that would imply a limit that Council would not not want put upon it. Councilman Sher aaaid if the motion were limited to the first *entente he would vote for it. Hower, in its present form, ha would vote against it. Mayor Norton said he vase always opposed to the rigid rsteution of the seven saes, so the motion W48 reflective of the position he had stated before, Bs said -all he realm vented at this point wee the flexibility end not being absolutely required to retain those seven units. Councilmen Carey said he agreed with Councilman Sber's remarks and for one additional reason. In his opinion there were so many cotton- picking flsuibilitiese in the plan nav, Council did not need anymore. He said there were ilezibiiities they did not know what to do with. The one constant in this whole deal of the development plan is the City is going to may that it is not really up to it either. He &eied that Coil have one cotenant to go to Sacramento with. He said he could guarantee nteeee that if the State did not like the idea of retaining the *even 791 10/14/75 houses they would tell P&HC to get rid of the seven houses before they discuss funding. Councilman Carey said that Mr. Goldsmith would return with the information regarding the State officials' reactions. He said he did not think it was necessary to give any further indication that the City is flexible. He felt that had already been done. Mayor Norton stated he thought he understood what Councilman Carey was saying, but be did not care what Sacramento said about the seven houses and that their comments would uot change his position. Vito Mayor Clay said the first sentence pretty much reflected the meaning of the entire motion, This statement combined with the authority that Council had given the Housing Corporation made the second half a bit redundant. He said it was acceptable to him but he did not feel it was necessary to hang on to it. Mayor Norton said if the motion failed, he would entertain a action stating only the first sentence. He said he would not modify the motion. The notion passed on the following vote: AYES: fserwald, Clay, Eyerly, Norton, Witherspoon NOES: Carey, Sher POLICY AND PROCEDURES COMITTEE RECOMMENDS SE RENTAL RATES - CITY -OWNED PROPERTY AND POWER PARCELS ( :513:5) _.�.,.._.r Vice Mayor C/ay said this item had to do with city -owned property and as he recelled there were twenty --six houses located on the Webster site, Downtown Pork North, end the Po ur Parcels in various states of dis- raepsir , The discussion vas centered around bringing the homes up to meet the city code, and thereby adjusting the rents to etch the earket value or demolishing the homes if that were the apparent solution. MOTION: Vice Mayor Clay, on behalf of the Policy and Procedures Com- mittee introduced and moved, the following recommendation: That all tenants woad be assessed adjusted market rent and tbo.+ee tenants who qualified as "lover income" or "very Iow income" according to the HUD Section 8 income limits would be allowed to apply to pay 252 of their adjusted income, or the adjusted market tent, whichever would be lower, as Monthly rent; that the staff iuvsdtigate tls fessibility of contracting with the Santa Clara County Housing Authority for management of the Webster block, Downtown Park North block, and Dover Parcel housee; end tbst the Roaming Authority administer the 3.acree.me of rental rates including income verification as pabt of the management function. Councilman gyarly said be bad a few question*, Se wondered if staff had any ides es to bow much it would cost to go through a survey re bringing the properties up to standard in order for the. County to accept them. The other quest icon was be wondered about the length of time that Council may be tying up the properties. 299 10/14/73 Mr. Clay Brown, Director of Budget and Staff Services, replied that in regards to the first question the improvements that are necessary to the homes before the Housing Authority would agree to manage them are generally of a cosmetic nature, painting, putting screens on and that sort of thing. The buildings do have to meet light safety codes now. The Housing Authority point had said that a fairly hurried walk through indicated there would be something in the nature of $3,000 to $7,00ti) needed for the cosmetic painting and screening. With regard to tas second question regarding the length of obligation with the Housing Authority, staff would envision having a management contract with the County which could be cancelled on short notice, for instance a thirty -day notice, in view of the development possibilities for the Webster Block and reevaluation of the Power property. Councilman Eyerly referred to Mr. Brown's first answer regarding $3,000 to $7,000 expense. He asked how much money was going to be saved by doing this and how long will it have to be continued to break even with $7,000. Mr. Brown responded that the savings overall in having the Housing Authority take over the managment of the rentals is one of savings of staff tine from a whole variety of people in different departments, such as himself and Mrs, Sarah Egeler, who is currently spending pert of her ties managing the properties. Overall, the savings would be epproximately $10,000 annually. Councilman Bervald asked Mr. !soldtaith of Palo Alto Housing Corporation if he thought a private manager could do a better job than the County Housing Authority: ?fir. Goldsmith replied that the County Housing Authority would be excellent augers for this kind of housing beca e they do a lot of this sort of thing and he felt sure that the Housing Corporation would not want to be involved in this. Renting individual family homes eau be a real problem unless one had a large number of then and the crews can be on your own payroll. Councilmen Barwald said he would like to make a couple of comments. One, he believed that this was a reasonable, and necessary step. This vas enother argument for Mayor Morton's last motion, that Council should fade out thesis hones ear quickly as possible and develop the property for the purpose it was 1endbanked. It is sort of an unnecessary d a wasteful effort to continue on and on when the final analysis t+ould be to demolish all the buildings. Secondly, in other insta css, just recently the staff bad informed the, Co*i1 that it was embarrassing to inquire about p 1m'• income si a qualification for other city projects. There wr`s an inconsistency here and he felt it was necessary, whenever the city provides services with public fusda, that Council make ovary effort to determine tether those who receive the subsidise frog the City Bch are from City /Administered funds ere eligible to receive those funds. The income verification would be a aecrssery source of intonation and he loped it would be done very professionally, not just regarding housing, but in all cages Mayor Morton said ha believed that staff had assured Council that the agro met with the County, if Council decided to proceed in the natter, can be constructed so that the arrangement for nanagemant of one or more hawses could be terminated on short 30 day notice, if it were not locked in a five year or 'Lollar long tern Arrangement. Mr, iron continued that staff sold try to negotiate exactly that with the Homing authority. 3 0 0 10/14/73 The following statement was submitted, but not read, by Mr. Barroga of the Midpeninsula Citizens for Fair Mousing, and said statement is on file in the City Clerk's office: "I am Kenneth Barroga speaking for Midpeninsula Citizens for Fair Housing. We have been following the diaouesfoas regarding the rental rates for City -owned property and the various processes for implementing changes from the preeeat i aaiageaent of the properties. We urge you to follow the Policy and Procedures Committee's recommen- dations that the ren :a3. rates be increased to the sd j uated market rent es outlined in the staff report, and the tenants who qualify as "tower" or "very low" incase according to HUD Section 8 guidelines be allowed to apply to pay 25% of their adjusted income, or the adjusted market rent, whichever is lower, as monthly rent. Further, we support the staff's recommendations that the City contract with the Saute Clara County Housing Authority to manage either the Webster or Downtown Park North parcels if they are to remain as City -owned rentals for two or more yss.rs. In addition, we believe that the City should continue management on an interim baste for any housing parcel of which there may be an anticipated change in use within the next two years. Mr. John Burns, Director of the Housing Authority has demonstrated sensitivity in his operation of the leased housing program in Saute Clara County. We believe the staff's and the Committee's choice of the Santa Clara Co‘Inty Housing Authority to manage, plan, coordinate and execute the transfer of the leaseholds Is a wise choice. In terns of budget and staff services, such a choice would definitely be to the City's advantage. We strongly urge you to consider these recommendations. Thank you." The motion passed on a unanimous vote. The Council recessed to Executive session at 9:15 p.a. The muetin& resumed at 9:40 p.m. Councilman Sher said that he was relucte►nt to remove this item from the cwt Wender because it W414 unanimously recommended by the Plan- ning Commission. Hovevers be felt it s:rth etls for him to express hie eottesrus about this particular project. The Planning Commission did not get into the design elements of the plan because that was not within their province. Thera was nothing in the Planning Com- mission minutes in that regard but Council dose have in its materials a number of sets of minutes from the Architectural Review Hoard, who had considered this au several mscaeeione. These sets of minutes helve created concerns for him. He said it is mot ea much concern about the subdivision; it is really a concern with the sa g that psmt.ts this kind of develop -east to take place between anumber of sir developments is the dawntowee area origleally,r and in and around the area of University 1 101 10/14/75 Avenue. Now it has spread south to the particular corner or near the corner, as the ARA minutes said, there are three or four on the same corner; there is a►aother such development planned for across the street where excavation has already begun. The problem is that this kind of project is massive coverage of a lot, with high density, narrow setbacks, and lack of open space. The general appearance that is being created in the downtown area is what concerns Councilman Sher. He said it is not the fault of the developer; the developer is doing what the present zoning allows him to do, but he did want to take the occasion to voice his concern and he hoped that Council Would be in a position to do something about it. He pointed out a few of the items mentioned in the ARB minutes that were also his concerns. In the minutes of May 1, one of the items said, "Let us redesign the front elevation and make it more interesting and less monotonous." In an earlier set, Ms. Derk Vyn., and other timbers of the Board felt that the building was massive in s'a1e, mediocre in design and lacking in residential character. The Forest Avenue facade in particular appeared monotonous. Mr. Vyn 'suggested stele some units be offset to create more of a variety in elevation. He also expressed concern aboutthe corner of Forest and Webster becoming enclosed by two and three story buildings. Forest Villa across the street was nearly complete; this condominium would soon be going up; and there was the potential for a similar project On the vacant parcel on the west side of the intersection. Another set of minutes indicated the concern that some of the units should be offset to create more variety in the side elevations and finally action was taken in the June 3 meeting at which Mr, Charles Kinney said the plan required taller and more vertical planning and not enough care and sensitivity had been given to the central courtyard. It passed on a 4 eo 1 vote with Mr. Kinney opposing and because of his opposition there have been concerns that have appeared and reappeared throughout the sets of minutes. Councilman Sher said he did not know haw the rest of the Counc{3meembers felt about aspects of downtown Palo alto in and around the downtown area, but it seemed to him that the City is getting motet and more of these multiple unit projects that were being built almost out to the streets with narrow setbacks, which are permitted under the present Toning, and it was creating an appearance downtown that vas distressing to him. He said it was beginning to look more and more like the "Los Angeles" type aspect and he hoped that during the adoption of the Comprehensive Plan Council could consider this area, the density, the coverage, and the setback requirements, and atop what he considered to be an unfortunate tread. He stated that be could not 4o anythia g about it rear would he do anything about it with regards to the context of this particular project and that he did not mean to say that this project should be stopped at this point; that there were no grounds to stop it now, but he did want to make those remarks. Councilwa Berwald said he had some of the same concerue that Coaect1man Sher red. He felt that the minutes indicate that ths density is sort of mid -point in the rang* suggested in the Comprehensive Plan designations for this arse, but one of the thins that bothered him About i.t initially was that when he opened the package, he thought the visuals were quite iifficelt to underetand, grad the leadscspin plan awes absolutely unreadable. It is not vary helpful to s Couacil- parnoa to get documents that he or she cannot read. Hs asked staff if it is true that the patio and open space is open to the sky except for a portion of the corridor going nut to either Webstsr or Forest? He assumed the witty is from Forest. $z . MOW./ boa, Director of nannies end amity Inviromment said be was not sure he understood the quaatioe. Councils lean id *eked, is the major entry from Poreet Stfsati 3 0 2 '- 10/14/73 Mr. Knox replied that Mrs. Steinberg anc', he believed that to be correct. Councilman Berweld said as he looked at the building, there is apparently a partially enclosed corridor of which the enclosed part - the part that is covered by the third floor - is about 35 feet long. Here again it looks like 135 feet, but cf course it is not. And then part of it is open to the sky, and what he wanted to find out is how much of that interior patio area is open to the sky. Mr. Knox responded that it appears from the floor plans that all of that patio area is ripen to the sky. Units 1 and 5 and 4 and 8 only occur at the firet and second floors, so that if you look at the third floor plan, the areas marked B-9 and B-10 are roof areas, and everything between those and units 9 and 10 is open, The only covering is over the entrance from Forest Avenue. Councilman Berwald thanked Mr. Knox. Re said the other questions he had were regarding facilities for the handicapped. If there are handicapped parsons who would like to purchase these units, are there provisions for rempwaye in addition to steps into the buildings? Are there only steps going up to the third floor rather than sum other type of access? Is there entrance: to the garage from say the lower units that would be accessible to a wheelchair? And the final question is on ventilation of the garage. That was one thing that was commented on by the ARB but he did not see any resolution of it. Hr. Knox said he did not know the answers in dews#.1 to any of those questions. In general, for the past half dozen months or so, staff has been refraining from stating requirements regarding facilities for the handicapped because they are included in code provisions, and staff was requested by the Council, he believed, to not be redundant in terms of repeating those provisions. Councilmembers should feel assured that the ARB is making sure that these provisions are contained in the various plans that comae before these, but they will not see reference to them because they are covered by City codes, end wherever City codes or ordinsncee automatically cover these items, they are not °psfled out in any specific conditions. Councilman Bsrweld asked whether the codes covered the Size of doorways to bathrooms for wheelchairs and that sort of thing? )z. Knox said he did not know. Whatever the codes art, they ere being watched by ARD, and there is a member of the Inspectional Services Department sitting in on all the ABB meetings to make enure that all matters of the cods are sett. The drawings, of course, ere reviewed et the time of building permit application by the inspectional Services Department, but the presence of s Building inspector at the ABB meetings As intended to make it easier for the applicant and to advise the applicant beforehand what provisions he will have to meet. Councilmen Barmaid commented that there ars no recreaatiou facilities. No spa, sauna or pool. Here again, maybe this is act really ton pertinent for s 10 -unit condominium but if there were ton 10 -wait cold-minium or even twenty,end theca aro probably 100 condominium uaits in that arta, eared noes of these had recreational facilities, it would sew to him to be rather poor planning. In time, the provision of recreation facilities fur these sorts of units would be recouped in the type of price that would be attainable -for them, end so he would like to see this type of unit have sees kind of recreation or facility otter then just an open patio. Since the ordinance providing for the handicapped is a fairly new ordinance he thought it would be 303 10/14/75 well to be re -assured that there are ample facilities for the handicapped. Councilman Carey said he had noticed in the September 19th letter from AILS staff person, Lois Atchison, that originally the site eoveraga exceeded the maximum and that a solution was found by sinking the underground parking structure to a full etory below grade, a maneuver which produced only minor changes to the design. His question wen whether this maneuver is of a kind that will result in the same kind of situation that exists on the northeast corner of Cowper and Channing, namely a condominium with parking below grade a full story level, but the driveway is so steep that the cars scrape going in and out? Was this question examined at all by the Planning Commission? Mrs. Steinberg assures! Councilman Carey that the question of the grade going down to the parking was discussed by the Planning omission, because they were concerned abosit that. She said what is proiosed is not a steep grade at all, and it is much less of a grade than the parking facilities across the way. 1 Mr. Knox said the points made by the various Councilmembers are very well taken indeed, and he thought the thrust of all of them was that there are some probleme with this R-4 zone. There is a situation with this development which is very similar to the one at Cowper/Charming, where the only apparent open space is approximately 30 feet between buildings, and the apartments look down onto the paved driveway area thet serves the parking stalls on either side. The City will eventually have to turn its attention to a zone which may recuire the incorporation of a recreation facility as suggested by Co=uncilman Berwald, or additional open space as recommended by Councilmaau Sher, All these points will be kept in mind by staff. At the moment however, with the zone as it is, the LRB is doing a very good job in making silk purses out of sows' ears. T sae designs are better than they would be without the ABB. The Council recognizes that we have different sized lots and different architects and developers. Some developers come in without the benefit of an architect's opinion at all. So we run the gamut in quality from vary goo developments to those vhich really need a lot of work, and the ARB goes as far as they can without actually having to coerce the developer into doing something he dose not want to do. It is s process that hes been working; and it is very successful in some cases and a little lees successful in others. MOTION: Mayor Norton veved, seconded by Clay, that Council uphold the recommendation of the Piaaniug Coeaies1.on for approval of the application of the Cowper' 1 i1ton Building, Lac., for 4 tentative ss4ivision map with 10 it. located at 715 Webster; and further, that Council find this is consistent with the adopted General Pion end the s stg of the site; and further, that the project will not have a significant impact on the environment. The motion passel on the following vote: AYBS: Carey, Clay, tyer1y, Norton, Sher, Witherspoon NOSS : Serwald 304 10/14/75 VETERANS B.1 LD ING (CMR : 514:5 ) tionorrimesammexamsr Mr. Clay Brown, Director of Budget and Staff Services, said regarding the Veterans Building that he would like to cover the hi-litea of the report, He commented that staff had received five specific points of direction from the Council when the subject was before them on September 15, two of whichwere related to the Red Cross Building and the direction to initiate discussions with Stanford regarding acquisition of land under the Veterans and Red Cross Buildings, in order to reduce the city's .annual costs for that property. -Those two points were covered in the report end are relatively clear cut. The major issue is the Veterans Building Itself. The direction was that staff prepare detailed estimates of the costs involved iat putting the Veterans Building in a habitable condition, also, prepare an estimate of the cost to restore the building to its original condition. Finally, Council indicated a policy that the Veterans should remain at the present location. In reading the report, Cvuncilmembers saw the high figures for the estimates for placing the building in a habitable condition. Staff interpreted the cost to bring the building up to the current building codes to be approximately $386,000. Staff's estimates to restore the building and the immediate grounds to their original conditicn were eomewhat higher - approximately $540,000. He said that staff investigated one other aspect of costs in preparing this report, namely, to establish what staff believed would be the absolute minimum required to put the building in some kind of reasonable shape, Staff estimated that the minimum cost for this would be approximately $110^0n and the building would still be below the current building code require.rente. The problem that staff had encountered in reviewing these cost estimAtes is that there is a provision in the bui1dieig code which suites that if in any one calendar year, improvements to a building are equal to or more t''an fifty percent of the value of the building, then the building would have to meet the current building cedes. Meyor Norton asked Mrs. Marilyn Norsk Taekete, Senior Assistant Attorney, if the provision applied to buildings owned by the city. Mrs. Takata said soh* was not sure. She stated that she knew it wee the policy of the city to keep to its codes and to keep its buildings up to the standard, required of the rest of the public, She said she we* not sure if there wee any particular provision that exempted the city trow its own building codes or required the city to comply with the building code. Meyer Norton commented that be did not seen to interrupt Mr. Brown, but the Veterans Building would have been torn down a long time ago if the city had applied the building code to it. -- Wk. Brown said with regard to that point it certainly uses staff's policy to keep the city -owned buildings up to the sews standard* that the city expects of private individuals. The problem with 'hat section of the cods brought out #,n this report, was that normally the value of the building is determined by the inspection Services Division, based on the value placed on the building by the County Assessor. Since this ire a publicly owned building, there is not rat, iestased value so staff looked at the building in an attempt to establish a value. They did not have a narks: value therefore, they arrived at a depreciated reproduction value of some $20,000. This would 1140A that the City could not mace improvements of $10,000 or more to that building and still be in compliance with th,, city's building codes. Based out the level of expenditures ttscesssry to rehabilitate the building, and given the condition that it is currently in, it is the eta.ff's opinion that without completely rehabilitating the 305 10/14/75 building and bringing it up to the current building codes, or terminating the lease next October when it expires, the situation will remain essentially unchanged,the building will remain unsafe and deteriorate even further. He said that staff also recognized that they are asking Council to reconsider a position that they had taken with regard to the Veterans Building several months ago w~aich sai4 that the building meets the naiads of the community, end provides a place for the various veterans organizations to meet. Further, that this building has some historical significance and architectural significance as well. But in view of the large sues required to rehabilitate this building, staff recommended that the City -not take costly repairs to the building.' . Hopefully, the City can make minimum roof repairs to last until the lease is terminated next October. Mt. Brown said ghat he and Mr. Joseph Aston, Principal Engineer from the Public Works Engineering Division, and Mr. Michael Kelly, Budget b Research Analyst, would be happy to answer any questions about the staff report. Councilwoman Witherspoon asked about Appen:lix C, the breakdown of costa. She meted to know what kind of roof Mr. Brown was referring to - shingle, tar and „ravel, or ssphalt, Mayor Norton asked Councilwoman Witherspoon if she aunt this as a temporary measure. Her response was negative. She wanted to know what kind of roof would cost $20,000. Mr. Anton replied that the roof proposed was for 2" insulation to be placed on the existing roof beards; that is if the existing roof boards are stable and strong enough to support it. Then they would put a built up roof on that which is essentially a tar and gravel roof, three-ply Also included is a provision for ducts, gutters, etc. to bring the water down from the roof to the ground. Councilwoman Witherspoon asked if staff had considered any other type of roof beeides tar and gravel. She commented that tar and gravel is very heavy and could create a structu' al problem if dry rot is discovered. Mr. Anton replied that tar and gravel is heavy, but any type of material that would be put on the roof would be about the same weight. Councilwoman Witherspoon asked if staff would recommend tar and gravel as opposed to shingle or asphalt shingle. Mr. Anton stated that asphalt shingle would cost about the pass. As far as the weight is concerned, the roof boards themselves had fungus, and were rotted and bad to be replaced. Councilwoman Witherspoon said as she understood it and she was not sure whether it vas in the building code or if it vas a supplementary state law there had been something giving historical buildings or designated historical buildings an exemption £rose the building codes requiremeote. Mfr. Brow replied that was true; SI 927 provides for aome exemptions. That Bill statist) that in no way dew the bill relieve the local building and fire officials of assuring that all buildint meet the health and safety of firs hassrde precautions. In:ehe case of rehabilitating this particular structure and brining it up to code, the modifications necessary for fire and sprinkler sistsma, and the basting and kitchen facilities, would all be required so part of the provisions of $13 927. Councilwoman Witherspoon asked if tha city exceeds wore than they fifty percent limit in one calendar year, would the City have to bring the building up to the building code standards. Mr, Brown said that was correct. Councilwomen Witherspoon sail it was a question of degree which translates into dollars. Mir. Brown said be did not think that the provisions iu BB 927 would impact that provision in the building cods at all. Councilwoman Witherspoon asked if when 306 10/14/75 et he quoted the building code Mr. Brown had said if improvements are made in one calendar year, i.e., from December 31 to January 31, or was he referring to the fiscal year of the city. Mr. Brown said it would be one calendar year meaning the actual twelve months. Mr. John Snow, 105 Lowell, President of the Veterans Council noted that Mr. William Hawley had stated that the Veterans Building is not one of the better structures by Julia Morgan. The Veterans Building was built during World Ward I with limited materials available. To the veterans it is a real work of art. It is simple in design, covers their need and even other organizations have used the facilities. Thousands of veterans have enjoyed the building; the historical Society has brought people through to see the building and they have felt the same. He referred to the estimated cost of the flag pole at $4,000 andsaid he gave the City a flag pole six years ago and the City contributed the cement which cost $288.93. He said he would like to rewind Council that twenty- one years ago, the City took the Veterans flag pole and said it would be replaced right away. He said the veterans are still waiting. As far as landscaping was concerned, he said the veterans like thingee the way they are. In reference to the estimate for the roof, $11,000 to $20,000, he said he wanted to remind Council that the timing coincides with the termination of the lease. Mr. Snow recalled that when he gave Council- man Beahre and ether Councilmembers four bide for repair of the roof from reputable people in this community, none exceeded $7,500.00 and all were with a warranty of teat years. The veterans had a bid leas than five years ago for the foundat9on to restore the building the way the city wanted it for $10,000. He pointed out that he had been appearing before Council on this subject for twenty-two months and he had not re- quested restoration. Although he would like to see restoration and it should occur sometime in the future, he believed that his specific requests were for renewal of the lease, a flagpole, and a uew roof. He field the plumbing was ancient but effective. Hr. Snow continued that four years ago the heating system was updated; the veterans purchased new equipment and installed its It was euperviaed, inspected and accepted by the city staff. He commented that it would be a vette of money to install a sprinkler system because as old and dry as the building is, by the time the fire department gets there, you would just stand there and wait. The electrical syetee needs work after fifth -five years, but the veterane have maintained its upkeep and have paid for it; not the city. In regard to the kitchen equipment he seed it was ancient, but also tough and adequate, as he is, himself. The Veterans bought a 40 gallon coffee pot, and a new hot water heater. They do not need a dishwasher, What they would like is a twenty-year lease or a leas* that terminates when the property lease terminates. He said that the veterans paid for and built new fire veils. As for maainteuance, the Veterans do not pay rent; Amu of the organ.iseations using the building pay reset. The veterans ere a assn -profit organisetion, but they do pro -rate the ease*. He varited to point this out because other non-profit organizations have requested to use the building and all the veterans have asked is that thee* organisations pay the prorated dues, as do the veterans. If the City would like to take the Vetereue Building over, he wanted to remind the Council that the veterans, by aasaintaizag the building, have saved the City some $35,000 par year. ter. Snow concluded by *eying that if the City gave them as roof for oqs year, they are deed. He *eked that the City give the veterans a lease of twenty years, or with the termination of the lease set for when the property lease terminates. ifr. ?rank Menf redi, 219 Addison, said he had been reading the resume of a meting of couple of weeks ego, and. he asked it the building waa eventueliy to be demolished? If that eras true, he would not spend $20,000 or act even 20e on the building. Ha said although he coed 307 10/14/75 not tater the building, his obeervation from the outside was that it looked like it was a pretty sound building. He and his family had been in the building and construction business for many years. Mr. Manfredi suggested that the City budget a certain amount of money each year for the veterans and allow them do their own repairs to the build- ing. Meet. Goal Woolley, 1685 Mariposa, referred to Mr. Hawley's statement that the building is of little architectural significance and no historical significance. She introduced Mrs. Sarah Boutel, an instructor at the University of California who teaches courses on Julia Morgan. Mrs. Sarah Boutel, 130 Jsrhzo Street, Santa Cruz, said eh* is interested in Ju1is Morgan arcitmcture. It is her special topic of research. She commented that not only the State but the whole nation should be interested in California"s architecture, of the early twentieth century. She stated that in this city we have 4 building designed by one of the most important of the early century architects, and.a building that is unique. The Architect and Engineer Magazine reported in 1918 that the War Couincil had appointed Miss Morgan to design forty of these houses ail over the country, and two of these were built in California, The Vetezaene Building in Palo Alto is the remaining one. She reiterated that the City has a treasure here and she hoped they would retain it for the sake of the people who believe in preservation and in not de oliehio.g something thing that is valuable. She said that there: are only two ways to go; one is to demolish an architectural object and that is s fatal step to take; the second is to keep a not only valuable architectural object, but a historical asset at that. She then showed some slides of buildings similar in size which float about the same to build. She started with St. John's Presbyterian Church in Berkeley, because this structure had a period of ups and downs just as serious as the problems that the Veterans Building had. She slaw showed some pictures including Asilomar, built in 1913, and now a State, monument, noticing that Julia Morgan wee known for her architectural design of ceil- ings, and often began her plan of a building with her ceilings. Mrs. Dorothy Refinery, Executive Board Member of the Palo Alto Historical Society, also Shared soma slides with Councilmem►bers and the somber' of the audience. She started with pictures of the building when it was originally built in Menlo Perk, Cusp Fremont. It was located on the site epproxisately vhsrs the Presbyterian Church an Santa Crust Avenue stands. That building was built in May, 1918 and occupied only instil October, 1918. It was sstttod in Palo_Alto and put on a four foot foundation raised considerebly in 1919. She staid that the f'l.agpglee _ story vas another interesting part of the community homes. Tbs flagpole shown coat the city the grovel taken out of the S*4 Praar cise;uito Crssk. Evsrythiaa else was donated the pole actually w= used at the iaterssction of Main and Broadway in !redwood Ci.tw at one time; the fie; itself vas donated by the American Legion, tbs DAR (Dsughtsrs of American Revolution) donated tbs raplacomsat flairtbe foilovin )03r. Po pointed out the srchitsctu ral features of the listening Building. Mrs. Roguery *aid she would like to add to tbs staff report that she dial not thick that the building was built it haste. It was used at a Palo Alts amity e; it ono not a rocrsatio of 4=W es ths staff repot put it. It wee a building that was built with YWCA funds at the request of the War Department sad it was not a military tivs ear.s1ifs mobilisation structure. She said in the col nailas era packste there wee s vary important latter written by Edward Rummy, who worked for Julie Sic from 1920 until abe closed, and this man speaks with authority, Sho wont oh to stag 308 10/14/75 she had three reasons why she would consider the building historical. The presence in Palo Alto of the structure which Council is considering tonight, was the result of the efforts of the then Mayor of Palo Alto and the City Council. The eventual success was due largely to volunteer citizens of Palo Alto. But the origin was due to the hard work, and the begging of the Mayor and the City Council and even the staff. During World War 1 the Army had proposed to establish two training camps in California and through the hands of many politicians Pa1.o Alto was secured for the site for Camp Fremont. The camp would have been on Page Mill. Road, the present site of the Stanford Industrial Park. The first troops to arrive set up their tents where the Palo Alto High School is now and when the first pay checks weae issued the local merchant& rubbed their hands with delight. This decision was the pivot, where Palo Alto ceased to be a bedroom community ni.ty for the University. There were very powerful factions in the community and Camp Fremont was suddenly transplanted across the creek into another county in the midst of Menlo Park, which in those days was a scattered unincorporated village. The financial benefits of Camp Fremont flowed into Palo Alto. Regardless of the location, the newspaperai always reported Camp Fremont as being in Palo Alto, unless the news was bad then Camp Fremont belonged to Menlo Park. She said the War Department requested that the National Council, and the YWCA, build, equip and maintain structures in continental army camps. They were identified as hostess houses and they were safe and dignified meeting places for women and children coming from military posts to visit friends, husbands and relatives who were enlisted in the service. In California, on a rock bottom budget, Julia Morgan designed the hostess House. Although the Hostess House was not the greatest contribution that Julia Morgan had ever made to architecture it ►:o.►tained all of her characteristic styling, and it was her contribution tr the war effort. They were not extravagant with the lumber anymore than in the barracks, but this house was far more attractive. Some people believed that Julia Morgan` s idea of designing resulted from her French training of using ordinary things in a way that is beautiful, and she had done that in this building. Today, 1975, the Hostess }house is the only intact building remaining from the two array training camps established in California. All the buildings that were built and equipped at the request of the War Department were either sold or moved. There are none of the buildings left at Camp Kearney. It was under the leadership of Mayor Cooley, the City Council, and the idealiste of the community that the YWCA wee persuaded to give the building to Palo Alto. Mrs. Regnery read part of Resolution No. 163 that was adopted on March 24, 1919, by the Palo Alto City Council. Tba City of Palo altar?provided the land and approximately $3,000 a year from the general funds for that maintenance of a cr mmunity center as a memorial to the national defense. It Was the first community center in the United States established and supported by a municipality. In closing, Mrs. Roguery read a quote from a letter dieted 1935* from a aalo Alto citizen concerning the Veterans Boilding. "In my 1G.ig life, I have visited many eitias end towns in ell parte of the world. But I have never known a better IkOZIUMMInt to good sense, a place more convenient, useful or attractive. It @a►aaot be replaced. If it is closed or roved, it will be a loss of joy to the community forever." Mars. Woolley said she therefore, did not think it would be wise to demolish the buildings But she asked, "Where do we go from hero?" She commented that the staff report was very thorough but she did not find it particularly creative or imaginative in providing alternative solutions to the spending of money. She believed that there should be more exploration of alternatives. She referred. to SB 927 and she said sate understood this Bill would provide alternatives end trade offs for bietoric structures. Such buildings do not have to meet the Code as precisely as is required for new buildings. Mrs. Woolley said the 309 10!14/75 City would have to decide what it is going to use the building for and the public space needs of the City would have to be determined first. She suggested that Council request one member of the staff, assisted by interested citizens on a volunteer basis, to research other approaches. This would not incur any additional expense except for the one staff person's time. In the meantime, she requested that the Veterans be given a new roof. Councilman Bervald said the hour was getting late. Councilmembers have read the report and it was discussed in the Finance and Public Works Committee. He realized that there were a number of different interpreta- tion') of the staff report but he did not wish to rebuild the Veteran* Building here tonight, nor did he wish to initiate the recommendation that staff had wade. He said he would prefer to have staff immediately get some bids on reroofing the building including the two -:inch insulation, making essential structural repairs and replacements in a way that would enable the restoration of that portion of the building to enable the ceil- ing to be removed, so the exposed wood, rafters, an; trusses would show. Committee's recommendation that the city retain the Veterans Building in its present location should be followed, Councilman Berw*ld stated, and the building should be reroofed at this time. In the longer range the City should look at a master plan for restoration; Council should let priorities and timetables, and initiate and encourage a private fearederaieing drive to restore the building. He realized that this goes beyond what staff had recomae.nded and he believed that staff had done a good job, particularly in respect to permitting various people to look over the building. He ertalnly did not want to join others who have taken potshots at the staff. He said the staff Is gun-shy, and probably should be after recent experiences they had encountered. But now, it is not going to break the bank of the City to put a new roof on the Veterans Building and he was not convinced that the building ctnnot be restored for a lot less money tan has been estimated. The consultants, as he read the report, had not said putting a new roof on the building would make the building collapse. MOTION: Councilman Berwald moved, seconded by Norton, to direct staff to put out for bid for roofing and roof structure - to remove existing, install new sheathing and rafter tails, install 2" insulation and nev roofing. Mayor Norton acid he agreed with Councilman Berwald's comments and he did not wish to spend $386 to make the building habitable nor did be want to epend $540,000 to restore it. On the other hand, he did not vent to tear it down. Councilmen Cared said he agreed with the motion and was going to vote for it. Be said he old like to see the City staff review their .tef f report because there were a umber of items in it that disturbed hie. Fie said that Mr. Snow had pointed them out and he wee not going to repeat them. Be said that the report bothered him in the sense that the *tali had reached a conclusion by pulling out the building code. Bs did not think that wee the purpose of the code in the first place and as everyone knows, depreciation in real estate is good for tae purposes but as a matter of truth buildings do not depreciate, they appreciate. A sixty year old building today is probably worth testy times more than its initial cost sixty years ago. To use the Section 104 to try and licit repairs under $10,000 or give Council the elteraative to bring it up to Cods, be simply would not buy. Ha did not think the mathematics were right and he would like to see the staff reanalyse that portico. 310 10/14/M.;:.: Councilman Sher asked Councilman Berwald if in his motion he had seta dollar limit or is it proposed to spend whatever it takes to put on the roof with the necessary structural repairs. Councilman Berwald responded that h2 had asked staff to ask for bids and these would comae to the Council so he did not feel they could put a limit on it. Councilman Sher said he did not want to voice the unpopular opinion; he agreed with much that was said by Mr. Snow and with the people who were concerned about the historical and aesthetic values of the building. He did not think it was entirely responsible to decide to put oa a new roof that would cost up to 20,000 without first making the decision about the long range future of the building. If the Council were going to let the lease expire, even Mr. Snow suggested that he himself would not put $7,500 into a caeca roof under those circumstances, Councilman Sher said he did not think they could bypass the hard question of whether Council was going to make a financial commitment to save this building. They have another year left and should keep the roof from leaking. He referred to Councilman EyerIy=a suggestion which apparently has not been pureuad, of using a special kind of product that might seal the roof temporarily if Council wanted to postpone the final decision. He felt that was as far as they should go. Frankly, he said the staff report, in spite of possible gaps and inadequacies, contained a number of statements that ought to be of serious concern to them all. There were all kinds of statements in it about the sa€cty of the building and he was concerned about the continued use of the building and the possibility of a liability claim against the city. He did not think the Council could ignore those kinds of statements. He said that Council should address them- selves to that and if they did not want to do so tonight then they should limit themselves to minimal expenditures, to make the building last another year without putting in up to $20,000, or whatever it may cost which way turn out to be a waste, when in these times the City eouId not afford to waste money. The budget amendment item that the staff has recommended for the roof repairs was for $9,540. There is no money budgeted for this and whatever the City spends will have to come out of the Capital Improvements Fund, which is no longer receiving contributions from the sales tax revenues as in the past. Using the Capital Improvements Fund means going just one way and that is down. Councilman Sher said he did not think Council could finesse the hard question and he was very uncomfortable with the motion as stated and would prefer that it state dollar limit which is designed to get Ole building thrwtugb this year. He said he was nervous about putting $20,000 into something and then raking a decision during the course of the year that we could not put more iu. Councilmen Berwald said he understood Councilman Sher's concerns and he shared some of the:, but he did tot feel that the Council use ready to move the veterans out of that building. If Council puts in $9,500, it is really wasted money for temporary repairs. He suspected that the value of the building, the tradition of its use, and the reputation of the architect, ere all indicators that the building is net too unsound. He wee sure there were a lot of things wrong with it but with a docent roof it could continue its use. He hoped that the V tsrane could go out and got the bide ineteed of the City. Ee said perhaps the veterans could gat the Labor unions to donate a new roof. La his opinion the city should put a first-class roof on the building and get the structure repaired He felt suss the veterans were going to be thsse for a few year* and they could always sdvsrtise the roof for sale even if a decision weer finally rode to remove the building. kst he *acid be could not see himself in the foreseeable future, voting to remove the building. 311 18!14/73 0 Corrected Pg. 413 Councilman, Eyerly said the report that came in to the city contained some discrepancies on the statements. When one reads the fine print one notices it is Lee Saylor, who comes from Walnut Creek, who had made the actual estimate. Councilman Eyerly wondered if Mr. Saylor's estimates of $20,000 was exact. He had included in his price insulation, which the building does not have now, and that is the reason for requiring a false ceiling, which was quoted at a cost of $2,000. Some of the figures that were indicated really did not bear out the comments in the letter. He said the point about the process of getting the bids on the work is well taken, and the other concern expressed by Councilman Sher, that ties in with this, is what to do with the Bryant Street Old Police/Fire Building. If the City se11a that building es recommended by the Policy and Procedures Committee the City is certainly going to need to keep the apace it has in the Veterans Building. The Veterans Building has a lot of space which is being used right now; the site is in a good location for use for transportation. Councilman Eyerly could not see using that ground for park developceat. It did not seam wise to him to tear down the building based on the concerns that the staff has raised through Lee Saylor's report. He said the City shculd go ahead and fix that roof for now, and Council should make a decision as to what it is going to do with the community space and tie it all together. Councilman Sher said he wanted to riake a statement explaining why he f3lt compelled to vote against the proposed expenditures. He wanted to clarify that he was not against some of the suggestions that Council consider how it might save the building, In his opinion, that question should be considered first. Making a mistake tonight would lead to more meetings like this if Council keeps postponing decisions and dealing with the easy questiona, while finessing the hard question. He reiterated that it was time to work on the hard question because there is only a year left on this lease and the decision has to be made this year as to whether or not the lease is going to be renewed. He said Councilman Eyerly was right about the need for community space, but he was not too sure use of the Veterans building would make sense, as the staff report suggested. Mr. Manfredi had suggested the possibility of finding other space for the Veterans if Council decided that there was no way they could provide a reasonable aum to handle this situation. He said he was going to vote no, not because he wanted to throw the veterans out or to destroy the building. His reason for voting against it was that he did not think Council should authorize thin significant expenditure without first wrestling with the hard question. The motion passed on the following vote AYES: Bervald, Carey, Clays Eyrerly, Merton, Witherspoon NOES: Sher Mayor Morton said he believed that Council might attempt to pans the ordinance amending the budget. Kr. Brown replied Council could wait until staff returned to Council for the award of a contract. The process of preperine all the steps, advertiaing for bids and retutninl to Council would take abut thirty to forty days. That is about as quickly as that process can be done. Mayor Norton asked if it would be inappropriate to pass the ordinance for $9,500, since Council had six votes tonight and if more money was needed, the matter could be taken up when the contract was awarded. Mr. Brown said ba was sure that $9,500 would not do the job. To replace the roof, as the motion suggested, could cost, as estimated in the report, $20,000. Mayor Morton said be named staff to start with the $9,500 and see taw far that want. 312 10/14/73 MOTION. Mayor Norton introduced the following ordinance and moved, duly seconded, its adoption: ORDINANCE NO. 2879 entitled "ORDINANCE OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PALO ALTO AMENDING THE BUDGET FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 1975-76 TO PROVIDE FOR REPAIRS TO THE VETERANS BUILDING UP TO THE SUM OF $9,500." The ordinance was adopted on thefolioving vote: AYES: Berwatld, Carey, Clay, Eyerly Norton, Witherspoon NOES: Sher MOTION: Councilwoman Witherspoon moved, seconded by Clay, that the Mayor be authorized to appoint a Citizens Advisory Committee (of approximately nine members, with suggestions to come from Counci1members) to explore alternative ways of preserving and/or restoring the Veterans' Building. This Committee to be advittory to the Finance and Public Works Committee. Councilman Carey stated he intended to move that the staff report of October 9 be referred to the Finance end Public Work', Committee. He said Councilman Sher's res arUs should be considered seriously by this Council. Council has voted for a new roof and if everything else in the building is falling apart that is wyher. Council left it. He said Council had to go further and make a decision as to whether or not the building stays and if it does, what kind of use it gets, and what kind of repair it gate. If it is decided it should not stay, the decision has to be made to demolish the building. Re eaid all that was accomplished tonight was to procrastinate and to gain some time. Someone should look into these matters and the staff report itself should be reviewed because in spite of the history, he felt sce of the figures were high. He said he could understand why staff is coming in with high figures because in the part the Council has bean caught, but he felt the Finance end Public Works Committee should review thie matter. Councilmen Berwald said first of all he would support referral of the unfinished ut pending matters related to the Veterans Building and the Red Cross lease to the Finance if Public Works Committee. He would also /support formation of the Citizen Committee, He did not know yet what kind of coeepoeition this group should have; he guessed it eho 1d include people from the Historical Society, Architects, persons from the Veterees Courcti, etc. He hoped it mould not be too large a group and one that would be able give eseistence to Council in making a decision. The motion passed an s unanimous vote. NOTION: Coe n ilmen Carey moved, seconded by Norton, that c MR:514: 5 dated October 9. 1975 re Veterans Building be referred to the Finance and Public Works Committee for review. The referral motion weed on a unanimous vote. Mt. Brown said there was one other' item in the staff report on page 9 relating to en election asking the voters to sasepetd the park dedication ordinance in relation to the Red Cross Building. 3 1 3 10/14/75 MOTION: Mayor Norton moved, seconded by Berwald, that staff be directed to take the steps necessary to place the matter of suspending the park dedication ordinance for the Red Cross Building before the voters and that the suspension, if approved by the voters, be in effect until the year 2013. Vice Mayor Clay said the last sentence refers to the uncertainty of the Red Cross regarding the length of time they want to lease the property* He said he had talked with a member of the audience about their desire to atay in the building and for how long. Vice Mayor Clay said he fled indicated their desire would be for about ten years. Mayor Norton said he had visited the building and was surprised to find that the Red Cross Building was in good shape. More than that, he said, they had plans for minor additions to the building for tweeting rooms, and instructional facilities, and the possibility for some covered parking. He said in order for the Red Cross to contemplate those kinds of improvements, it would be necessary to have the assurance of occupancy for at least ten years. He said he would offer an amendment which would be a sense motion. AMENDMENT: Mayor Norton moved, seconded by Berwald, to amend the motion to add a sense motion that subsequent to voter approval of the park dedication ordinance ausperaion for the RQd Cross Building, staff should be directed to prepare a new lease with the Red Cross for ten rather than five years. Councilman Sher asked if there were additions to the building wouldn't they have to be part of the proposition that Le peesented to the voters? Mr. Brown responded that the legal description for the election would simply have to state the area involved. Councilman Sher said he assumed from the recommendation made by the staff that they view these two buildinge as being independent of each other and even if the long term decision indicates that the Veterans Building lease not be renewed and the building has to be demolished, etaff would swill support their recommendation that the Red Cross Build- ing should be retained. Mr. Brown said that was correct. The motion including the amendment sense motion passed 'on a unanimous vote. TO CHANGE ZONING Mayor Norton said that this item wets continued from October 6 to permit the attorney to respond to Counet14ati Berwald and some of the concerns ha had. Mayor Norton noted for the record that he was out of line on October 6 when hs jumped d on Robert Broth, City Attornoy.. Hs was a little impatisat that +evsains and he scanted to publicly apologise to Mr. Booth. Councilman Berwald said that this was before Council for the second reading and he understood that since first rsadinn thus vas one miter change made in the ordinances that the words "as approved by the Architectural Revise Board" had been changed. 3 1 4 10/14/7`3 Ms. Norek Taketa replied that on page 2 of the ordinance, under sub- section b, she understood Councilman Berwald had wanted to change the words "as approved by the Architectural Review Board" to "to be approved by the Architectural Review Board" in order to make it clear that the subdued colors have not yet been approved, but will be approved sometime in the future by the ARB. MOTION: Councilman Berwald introduced the following ordinance and moved, seconded by Eyerly its adoption; ORDINANCE NO. 2880 entitled "ORDINANCE OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PALO ALTO AMENDING SECTION 18.08.040 OF THE PALO ALTO MUNICIPAL CODE CHANGING THE ZONING OF CERTAIN PROPERTY KNOWN AS 706 COWPER STREET FROM R-4 to P -C" (1st reading September 15, 1975) (continued from October 6, 1975) Councilman Carey said he had a question on the new wording in paragraph 2. The words used specifically are "It is the Council's intention that this prsperty be restored, maintained, and used in as close a fashion as when originally constructed. He asked if the word "used" referred to the original use many years ago, or to the use pursuant to the P -C classification today. He said if it were the former, he suggested that they strike the word. Ma. Norek Taketa believed it referred to the historical uae, within, the confines of the P -C use that has been proposed which is for a restaurant end perhaps some other commercial use. Councilman Carey asked if the word could be deleted. Councilman Berweld explained that the whole sentence was included at his request because his feeling was if tho uses of the building were to be :hanged the matter would come back to the Council. He felt that was assured. He stated he dl.d not mind removing the word, as long es it was understood that no one can change the use without returning to Council. The ordinance was adopted on a unanimous vote. .$5' OF COUNCI Councilwoman Witherspoon said she would liken to add to the memo which Councilman Barmaid wrote that one of her cobcerna was not necessarily the ote or neneuse of insecticide sprays, but difforene kinds of spray per ee. She was thinking about the California Sycamores along her street which in the days the City was spraying were sprayed in the dormant season with •a copper and oil spray which is now an insecticide. But since the City's *praying program has been dropped, there is a terrible blight each sir in those try. When she referred the review of the sprayieg policy she ; did not man only insecticides, but also a review of alternative woes of acme non-insectici40 sprays that eight help control the dieseeses. Mayor Morton said he did not want to go into detail to describe the things that have happened in the past few weeks which convinced his to PA* in this request, but it was clear to him that the City cannot simply ignore the street trees end expect thss to survive some of the things that inevitably occur from time to time. Bo stated that a lot more has to be dons than nes been done in the past year. 315 10/14/75 Councilman Sher said he did not oppose the motion. He hoped that as part of the review of the tree spraying policy that staff would inquire whether the conditions that we are all concerned about are permanent or temporary. Be recalled that the City had a program with some consultants from U. C. Berkeley, end he would like to see the current conditions of the trees reviewed with those consultants. That program involves control by natural enemies rather than pesticides, and he would like to see staff explore with the consultants whether the natural enemies will take care of these conditions, and not look solely at the question of what ?spraying the City should now return to, Mayor Norton said Councilman Sheer's suggestion wags a good one. Vice Mayor Clay asked if Mayor Norton when staff should report back. Mayor tree spraying season coming up and if the City will have the same condition ego and staff is fully aware of that. wanted to put s time limit on Norton replied that there is a the staff did not get back in time, that was encountered a few weeks Mar. Ben Paeloski, Director of Public Works, said since we are in the dormant season, there as some time available to consider thin matter. He said he would request that staff be given ninety days in which to report to Council, which would take then into January. Mayor Norton asked if that would be in time to address next ?ear's problems, and if so he would include the ninety day period in the motion. Councilwoman Witherspoon suggested that when the staff report is ready it can be reviewed by the finance and Public Works Committee, or it could be returned to the Council and discussed at Council level. It wawa agreed the report would go to Council. POTION: Councilwoman Witherspoon moved, seconded by Norton, that staff be directed to review the city's tree care policy, including the use of alternatives to spraying to prevent blight, and report back to Council in ninety days. Councilmen Bervald said that Councilmen Eher NIZ a good point. U. said the problem was related not only to spraying, but, also to the city's policy and procedures regarding care and treatment of the pleats and tress. The notion passed on a unanimous vote. Couecilman eiyerly apologised for bringing this matter up under Mew *mines* et this late hour but noted there would not be a curia seating, for a couple of weeks an be thought this vas important. it hey come to his attention thst there vas a possibility that there is ems money available in the County for possible funding of awl Camino/Page Mill L,e d underpins. Councilman $ysrl.y *aid he understood that tile City ham funding coming for left had turn lanes and aeo.s other improvement with signalling et that interchange; but there say be a poaeibiility of more than that should the Council oaks as request. Agee felt thin Council did not have anything to lose by preparing a letter and making a request. If Palo Alto dare* not make a revisit there vas no possibility of obtaining eny of the mosey that night be available. If the City site back and just takes the loft hand turn setup, it certainly would not be thecounty's pre ragetivs to is-fwed this until eons years after that, to his way of . thinking. 316 10/14/73 MOTION: Councilman Eyerly moved, seconded by Berwald that staff be directed to prepare a letter to be sent to Santa Clara County requesting funding for the Page Mill Road/F.1 Canino Real underpass; the letter to be from the City Council and signed by the Mayor. Mr. Naphtali Knox, Director of Planning and Cosrriunity Environment, said he had been in very close contact with the County on this matter, and was not aware of any source of funding for the cnderpass. This matter has been followed very closely by the staff for about the last six months. Very briefly, there was a Transportation Improvement Program (T.I.P.) using County FAU (Federal Aid Urban) futda. The T.I,P. included a full interchange at El Camino/Page Mill. The County found that they were about S12,000,000 short of funding the full T.I.P., so they "de -programmed", to use their term, some projects. In that de -programming, they took out Palo Alto's interchange. Staff prevailed upon them to at least consider a temporary improvement in the intersection to provide double left turn lanes at a cost of approximately one -quarter of a million dollars. Mr. Knox pointed out that the project contained in the original T.I.P did not provide for completion of the interchange, just completions of acquisition of right-of-way. The "de -programmed" Transportation Improvement Program then went through a process leading to its approval by the Board of Supervisiors; but the City of San Jose, acting under the Federal law which set up the FAO program, has veto power, and vetoed the program. That sent the T . I . P. back to a four -man co it t ee, and city staff spent some time conferring with San Jose officials and got them to agree. that our intersection project, at leant to the extent of the quarter million dollar improvement, was noteworthy. Staff pointed out that the intersection and its improvements had been in the T.I.P. for some time. So San Jose agreed to revise their proposalto the PAU Committee to include our quarter -million -dollar intaraectiou improvement. It stands at that point now. The T.I.P. as revised by San Jose is going to be discussed by the Bike and Highway Subcommittee of the County Transportation Commission. Mr. Ted Noguchi, Traffic Engineer, has briefed our Council representative to that Commission, Councilman Shen on thi..s matter. We understand there is a move afoot by some of the cities to protect San Jose's takeover of some of the funds so as to put the Guadalupe Freeway back in the T.I.P. It seemed to him that Palo Alto's only practical and possible hope at this time is for a quarter-million-doll/sr intersection improvement. Staff has been working very closely with Ken Deme1l and John Hamilton of San Jose and with other staff and elected representatives just to try and keep the quarter -million -dollar improvement in the T.I.P. He said he was not aware of there being any other funds beyond that. Mayor Norton said firrmt of all, he thought it was safe to assume, knowing h;v governments work, that if Palo Alto gets a quarter of s million dollar interim solution, it is going to be a long time before we sea the full underpass, He wondered if strategically Palo Alto was really smart in not making sure that it might slave ita quarter of a million end edd a few million to it, to get the thing properly dons evssen though it sight take anethsr year or two of waiting. Re was really not convinced that we were not doing ourselves as di.s4avor by, accepting something short of the full-blown treatment at this time, knowing full well that it iaa going to be twenty years before they were going to address that iute.rsectiou again, its his opinion. $a. He ilyn Norsk Takata, Senior Aaaistent City Attorney, advised Council that it hakes a Majority vote of the Council to bring up for consideration and than to act upon a scatter not shown on the agenda at this time. 317 10/14/75 Councilman Sher said Mr. Knox basically said what he was going to say. There is no prospect of any money for the full interchange. When Council talked about this in connection with the Coaprehenaive Plan, the whole question ---the desirability of the interchange and the adverse impact and the benefits were going to be discussed. But in any event, leaving that aside, the immediate and the only issue le whether Palo Alto will get the fucide for the turning lanes, and that is somewhat in doubt given the jockeying that is going on among the cities for those funds. At this point, we should use all our efforts to treeto obtain those funds. There is no point prejudicing that effort when there is really no hope at this time. Mayor Norton had mentioned a time period of one year. There is no way that money is going to be available for a frill interchange within a year. Council could write a letter to the Board of Supervisors, but the only money that is now available are the FAU funds. Palo Alto did get the interim treatment approved, but then it got vetoed, and now it is.going through the course again. Tomorrow, Wednesday night, the Committee that Councilman Sher serves on will be considering it, and there is some question about whether that committee will pass what this four -man PAU Committee approved a few weeks ago, which does include the interim treatment. Vise Mayor Clay sad he recalled, around May, that the Policy and Procedures Committee reviewed this matter, and there was a County meeting to take place before the Council committee's recommendation *.could get back to Council, The CLmmittee asked Mr. ?.oguchi to transmit on the sense of the Council to ask the County not to de -program those funds, and apparently that did take place. Mr. Knox responded that, yes, all of the Council actions were transmitted both in letter and in oral testimony to the board and to the various commissions and committees at many times, but it is not just a matter of the formal discussions that take place. As Council knows, there is a lot of arm -twisting that goes on and he felt that Palo Alto could, as Councilman Sher suggests, prejud1ce its position with regard to the quarter -million --dollar intereectien improvement. The four - man FLU Committee which sets up the T.I.P. has one representative from San Jose, one fro the County, one from CelTrauns and one from MTC. Each one of those has veto power, and Sea Jose has exercised their veto power. This PAU money is used County -vide, a.ad becauee San Joss is s city of a certain sire, they have a seat on the committee and a veto power.- We have our own FAU funds, to tha tune of $80,000. We are using theb a city PAU funds on City itrproveaents elsewhere. Mt. Knox eaid he wanted to oaks sure Council understands that these are the County's FAU funds that we are talking about, not Palo Alto's. Because Page Mill is a County highway crossing a State highway, El Camino, we are talking about a County/State intersection, and that is where ?FTC, CalTrane and the County get involved. Be could envision as letter which indicates that the Council recognizes that there may not be funds :immediately available, but sakes a strong pitch for the qty Board of Supsrvissorre to remember that the City of Palo Alto wishes to have the full interchamge completed at some teas irz1 the near future. did uot t k that would dosage our relationship. tisyot Norton said that is the kind of letter we want, and Council weld defer. to staff to draft the letter. His concern ia that Council aught not let the interim solutions jeopardize whet he thinks is the proper solution.. Secondly, he did not think Pala Alto had been leaning hard enough on th. Supervisors, particularly the one in the Fifth District, to help the city on theses kinds of matters. To put it smother soy, he uma net sure all this ought to happen solely at staff level. is there other discuss? Be presumed that this allayed 7"..L? Wt. iGno*' a and Ca oil Shoe* wieners/. 310 10/14/75 Councilman Sher noted that there are two or more levcds. Wednesday night there is a meeting of the Committee of the Transportation Commission. The next level is the Transportation Commission itself, Lnd the next level after that is the Board of Supervisiors. If the Supervisors have received Council's letter and interpret it to mean Palo Alto is not really interested in the interim solution, that it wants the long range solution; and if they do not have the money for the long range solution now, then Councilman Sher said he was nervous about that, so he was going to vote against the motion. Mayor Norton said he appreciated that point; and it is a valid argument. He just did not think it was an insurmountable problem, and he wanted Mts. Geraldine Steinberg to do a little more than she has been doing in the pest. The motion passed on the following vote: AYES: Ser a1d, Carey, Clay, Eyerly, Norton, Witherspooe: NOES: Sher Mayor Norton said Council should cancel next Monday night's meeting pursuant to the tradition of not having a Council meeting during the week of the annual League of California Cities Conference, which this year is in San Francisco, and many Co°ur_cilmembers and staff will be attending. MOTION: Mayor Norton moved, seconded by Clay, to cancel the regular reeting of Monday, October 20. The notion passed on a unanimous vote. Mayor Norton reminded Council that the regular meeting of Monday, October 27th, falls on Veterans Day, when City Hall is closed, and that the meeting will be held on the following day, Tuesday, the 28th of October. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS OXIMMINIMMOMENICIMIONSI None The meeting was adjourned es 11:59 p.a. Z‘"16"‘ Clerk c let -t- LQ} , APPROVED: 1 of C /?4ir46 / Mayor 319 10/14/75