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Home My WebLink About1976-02-06 City Council Summary MinutesCITY COUNCIL MINUT€s ITEM Minutes of December 19, 1977 Minutes of January 9, 1978 Announcement of League of California (LCC) Appointment CITY OF PALO ALTO Regular Meeting February 6, 1976 PAGE 5 9 6 5 9 6 5 9 7 Oral Communications Ethel Anderson, 360 Colorado Avenue, Palo Alto 5 9 7 Dermit Knopf, 930 Palo Alto Avenue, Palo Alto 5 9 7 Consent Calendar - Action Items 5 9 8 4339 El Camino Real Change of Zoning from C -3-S to P --C, 5 9 3 subject conditions. Plan for Commencement of Refuse Disposal on top of 5 9 8 pteviously filled areas. Rinconsda Pool Coping Project (76-318) Rejection of Bids, Water Rationing Golf Course Improvement Project: Establishment of Final Budget and Related Matters 5 9 8 5 9 9 6 0 3 Planning Commission Recommecds R..e Draft Zoning Ordinance 6 0 6 Adjournment - 6 3 6 Regular Meeting February 6, 1977 The City Council of the City of Palo Alto met on this date at 7:35 p.m. in a regular meeting, with Mayor Sher presiding. PRESENT: Brenner, Carey, Clay, Eyerly, Fasaino, Fletcher, Henderson, Sher, Witherspoon ABSENT: None Mayor Sher welcomed members of Boy Scout Troop 51. He also announced to those who were listening to the meeting on radio that radio station USU would not cover the council sleeting from 8:00 to 9:00 p.m. so that they could instead cover a speaker who wen on campus that evening. RTES OF DES 19. 1977 Councilmember Fletcher said that the page numbers 449 and 450 had been assigned to pages twice. MOTION: Councilmember Henderson moved, seconded by Fletcher, that Council approve the minutes as corrected. The motion passed on a unanimous vote. MUTTS OF JANUARY 9. 1977 Council or Eyerly asked that on page 507, first paragraph, second line, be corrected to rea4,"end Alec Andrus stated staff's intention was to pursue. . . ." Council bee Henderson asked that on page 50S, middle paragraph, last line, be corrected to, instead "Teeter conservaticn methods. . . ." Councilmember Carey asked that on page 457., paragraph 3, the words "...and also affected their auto indemnification. ication. . . ." be stricken. On the same page, paragraph 6, be asked that the phrase read instead, "...the City act as an indemnifying agency, while inking inquiries about regular insurance coverage." 8e explained that the City had not expected PC to makes that inquiry itself. Hs asks that in the last line of the same paragraph the statement about ,the City giving "'oral backing" be stricken, for the Lity was giving financial nine well as moral backing. On page 488, second paragraph, line 3, C000ci laese9her Carey asked that the phrase read, "...many corporations do not consider a bad business practice." He asked that the lest sentence having to do with low income and low density be stricken. Be asked that the last paragraph on 494 be clarified to read "Es did not now if condemnation would have a material effect, but obviously, if there were any, it would be detrimental to those owners on Welcb. Road, to which Councilmen Carey yes alleged ww have an economic interest." Es asked that is an ensuieg sentence the words "and that was true," be changed to read, following the word 'commission' "...because now, according to the Fair Political Practices Commission ( C) is based on +inn assumption of economic interest. He no longer h*d * conflict; fir, staff had just reported that if Councilman Carey took tiamt action he might well increase the cot to the owners, but that may be a conflict." Covcilmee ter Carey asked that on page 500, first line, the phrase read "Councilmenber Carey said that the FPPC suttee. . . ." On page 506, first paragraph, beginning with the words 'torn apart' Councilmenber Carey asked that the words read instead, "...but that a policy decision tbas� had beau to have no drug program, about on* end one-half years "" 5 9,6 2/6/78 Councilmember Fazzin.o asked that on page 501, middle paragraph, beginning with the words 'police departure:.t,' the phrase read "...have begun to meet again with the neighbors." In the second line of that same paragraph he asked that words read "...to find mitigating measlres." Councilmember Clay asked that on page 505, second paragraph from the bottom, second.line, the sentence read instead, "Something different could be done; for example, eliminating the fines," MOTION: Councilmember Fazzino moved, seconded by Henderson, that Council approve the minutes es corrected. The motion paseed on a unanimous vote. ANNOUNCEMENT OF LEAGUE OF CALIFORNIA (LCC) APPOIWX Mayor Sher announced that Councilmember Fletcher had been appointed to a Policy Committee, the Committee an Transportation, of the League of California Cities (LCC). He pointed out that Councilmewber Pletcher was Palo Alto's representative to the Santa Clara County Department of Transportation as well. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS 1. Ethel Anderson, 360 ColoLa3c Avenue, spoke of the chilliness lr► the Council Chambers saying she was unable to find a place comfortably warm enough to sit for•thhe pa4t few meetings, She appreciated that the chamber was warmer' tha : evening. 2. Kermit Knopf, 930 Palo Alto Avenue, speaking to the residential section of tht Proposed new zoning ordinance, said he had given to Councilmembers a series of recommendations con .ernitig multiple residential housing in which he asked that R. M--3, R-4, end R -H-5 zoning square footage requirements be changed for the initial units, returning to that seme footage required in R--3, R-4, and R-5 zoning. Ha said he proposed that because small property owners, with properties from 6,000 to 12,000 square feet, woula suffer a loss of value if their properties were to be pieced under the new R-4 -3 zone rules. Be substantiated his assertion referring to a< chart which Naphtali Knox, Director o2 Planning end Community Environment, bad displayed at the January 30 meeting. According to that chart, with R -t4.3 zoning, only two units vt mid be allowed, whereas three would be allowed under R-2 zoning; that lows of one unit repree+ rated a loss of 33 1/3 percent loss in unit, hence property, value. Such a large loss, in percentage, would not be the '..: : a ith throe whose properties w%r1 urger. Be added ti::et the requirement "for larger nix of units at the front end" would encourage "neeemblage" and work "met maintenance of existing housing." Re spolta of the matter of setbacks, saying they ware " required to preserve the beauty of the City, but tt. ` require larger setbacks in multiple zones curtailed architects' abilities to utilise the property' attractively. Be said he though: eatablishment of eetbackr, should be assigned the Architectural Review Board (ARS) . Mayor Sher replied that Council would trot be talking about residential scones that evening; when Council did dixcgss ..the matter Councilmembers lad staff could respond to Mr. f's comments. CCU C A, Bone 397 2/iI7$ Action Itees 4339 EL CAMINO REAL CHANCE' OF Z0I ING FROM rrr!rrreZ"gtgTZCT CONDITIONS ORDINANCE 3036 entitled "ORDINANCE OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CALO ALTO AMENDING SECTION 18.08.040 OF THE PALO ALTO MUNICIPAL CODE TO CHANGE THY ZONING CLASSIFICATION OF CERTAIN PROPERTY KNOWN AS 4339 EL CAMINO REAL FROM CA -3--S TO P -C, SUBJECT TO CONDITIONS." (First reading 1/16/78) PLAN FOR Cf1M NCEM NT OF T PREVIOUSLY FILLRD AREAS CMR:121:8) Staff recommends that Council make a finding of no significant environmental impact for the proposed change in landfill practices and direct staff to cease as soon as possible filling the area near Mayfield Slough and begin filling an area on top of previously filled land and also to adopt the attached Park Improvement Ordinance. ORDINANCE 3037 entitled "ORDINANCE OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PALO ALTO APPROVING AAD ADOPTING A PLAN FOR TAE C0MMNCEHE T OF REFUSE DJSPCSAL ON TOP OF FRLVFOUSLY FILLED AREAS WITHIN THE REFUSE DISPOSAL AREA AND BYXBEE PARK." (First reading 1/23/78) RINCONADA POOL COPING PROJECT 76-31B REJECTION OF BIDS (CMR :140: , Staff recommends that since the entire Rinconada Pool facility is currently being investigated to determine the cause of severe leakage and other deflciencae, and since the recoping project should and will be only one part of the consideration to correct the deficiencies, that Council reject the bid from Rainwater Tile and Coping Company. Manor Sher offered that the item concerning water rationing which appeared - under "Reports of City Manager" later on the agenda could also be included with the Consent Calendar items. Councilmember Fazsino sod be wanted to offer en amendment on that miter, and AO, rather than include it on the Conseet Calendar, he would move at the eppropri+,ate time, that Water Rationing be brought forward an the agenda, Vice Mayor i3renner asked that her diapoeal sat ter . Councilmember Carey asked chat the record show he bad abstained from votimg on the item concerning tbe change of u,niug 'at 4339 El Casino Msl. " vote be recorded on the refuse MOTION: Counciimeiber Carry moved, seconded by Clay that Council eppeeve the ordinances and uphold the rejection of bid. The motion pasted on a unanimous vote, with Councilmember Carey mbetaining re 4339 El Camino Real, and Vice )levor Brenner 'acting "no" on the item re refuse dispoaal on top of previously filled erect. 598 2/6/78 _r MOTION: Councilmember Fazzino moved, seconded by Henderson, that Item 5, concerning water rationing, be brought forward on the agenda. The motion passed on a unanimous vote. WATER RATIONING (cMR:138:6) MOTION: Mayor Sher introduced the following ordinance and resolution, and, seconded by Fazzino, moved their adoption by Council: ORDINANCE OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PALO ALTO TO REPEAL ORDINANCE 2979. WHICH RESTRICTED CERTAIN WATER USES AND DECLARED A WATER SHORT!:.' EMERGENCY. RESOLUTION OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PALO ALTO REIaALING RESOLUTION 5420 WHICH ESTABLISHED A CITY WATER CONSERVATION RATIONING PROGRAM. Councilmember Fazzino said that a couple of reeks ago several Councilmembers felt it would be prudent at this time to end the water rationing plan, but felt it was s.?so important for the staff, to continue to look at the possibility of a water conservation program. In order to formalize this process, he would make the following motion. MOTION: Councilmember Fazzino moved that the City Council direct the City :,a.aff to develop an on -going voluntary water conservation program which will be brought to the Policy and Procedures Committee for review, Mayor Sher thought Councilmember Fazzinolsalotion would be better dealt with separately rather than with the ordinance repealing another'ordina ce ----and in fact, Section II of the resolution which repeals the water conservation rationing program domes refer to the fact that water is a limited asset. Councilmember Fazzino said that he recognized that, but he wanted to be certain that the Council went on record tonight. Mayor Sher suggested that they go ahead and adopt the ordinance and then he would recognize Councilmember Fazzino to move the motion to the Committee. Councilmember Carey Said he wanted to be sure that Council was repealing its earlier action, and if they were not doing so immediately, that this ordina ce be declared 'as an escecge:y ordinance, so that it will be tarn care of right array. Mayor Sher announced that was a point that wee made in the staff report. He awaked Mr. Booth how many votes ware reeiuized to edopt this as aa emergency. Mr. Booth replied that it would take eight votes. Mayor Sher asked if they had to say anything in particular about that; should the motion be amended to reflect that , it +should be adopted as an emergency matter. Mr. Booth replied that the emergency should be specified, that staff would then include twee wording to that effect in the ordinance. AMEMBNW IMO0ATED: Mayor Sher said that Councilmember Clay moves an amendment to the ordinance that this be adopted as en emergency wetter. The reaaluti€ a is effective immediately in any case. Mayor Shea incorporated that to his motion, and his seer Councilmember Fessino agreed. 5 9 9 2/6/78 EMERGENCY ORDINANCE NO. 3038 entitled "ORDINANCE OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PALO ALTO TO REPEAL ORDINANCE NO. 2979 WHICH RESTRICTED CERTAIN WATER USES AND DECLARED A WATER SHORTAGE EMERGENCY" RESOLUTION NO. 5513 entitled "RESOLUTION OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PALO ALTO REPEALING RESOLUTION NO. 5420 WHICH ESTABLISHED A CITY WATER CONSERVATION RATIONING PROGRAM" Councilmember Clay had a question with respect to penalties assessed for the period just ended, or since the last billing period. Mr. Aghjayan said that the penalties that were assessed or incurred during the January billing period were for consumption that occurred in late Decembet and early January. Those have been billed as of the first of February. No excess use charges have been billed at all on the new billing cycle. Excess use charges have been administratively stopped pending action by the Council tonight. Councilmember Clay asked if there were penalties assessed on the bills just received. Mr. Aghjayan replied that they were on any bill that was sent out during the February billing cycle, and he was not sure whether many bills had gone out yet. Someone may have received a late January bill within the laet few days. Councilmember Clay asked about the period ending January 26, 3.978. Mr. Aghjayan Qaid that vas the January bilting cycle. Councilmembet Clay asked if that was for the period late December to late .January, a`d Mr. Aghjayan replied that was correct. Councilmember Clay stated that he would like to sce those penalties that had been assessed at least credited towards the future bills of those people who haw been assessed. He asked if there were a simple way to du that. Mr. Aghjayan said that the unease during that time, late December and January, occurred when fa fact there was a bonafide emergency. It might be unfair to relieve those people of those excess use charges and not do that for sometime back in the past. Council - Clay said late December and January was during the rainy period and when the Council discussed this last time, he had some reservations about their now doing something i,n a hurry. MOTION: Councilmembee Clay moved that the penalties assessed over the most recent billing period be credited against future bijla. Mayor Sher suggested that be a separate motion at the appropriate tieeee. He noted that the two items 'More the Countil were the ordinance and resolution repealing the reeatrictionz on ohs use of water and the water rationing program. - Councii er Eyeerly► stated that he had some problems with putting this in as an emergency ordinance whe' he didn't see that it wits really an emergency. He realized that the comity wants to be done with the water tatiening program end he eras completely sympathetic to that, but there must be some other way to kill the water rationing program without de lsriag it -en emergency, because it was not an emergency, the City has lived with it all these moths and have gotten by with it, and no one has dried up and blown away. If there were any cases where someooe bad to build a miming pool for physical therapy, or something like that, be thought the staff would "tom: in a position to declare it a hard- ship case on application. Hs was not in favor of addinv the emergency clause to the killing of this ordinance, but it was in x sere, and he was going to have to vote for it because he wanted to do away with the w*kar rationing, but he was asking if there were any other wary to handle this without declaring it an emergency. 600 2/6/78 Mayor Sher said that perhaps one way to handle Councilmer'er Eyerly's problem would be to vote separately on whether the Council wants to adopt it as an emergency ordinance. He had incorporated the emergency factor in his motion, but he would be glad to unincorporate it. He thought that became more of a semantic question than anything --it means that the Council wants to see it happen immediately. Perhaps when it is called an "emergency" that has a different connotation to Councilmember Eyerly and that is what he doesn't want to get involved in. He suggested that the motion by Councilmember Clay, teat the motion be adopted as an emergency ordinance, be separated snd voted on first and that would give Councilmember Eyerly en opportunity to express his views on whether this was indeed an emergency and then the Council would talk about the actual repeal of the program. Mr. Walker said that he had two comments, one in response to the question Councilmember Eyerly just raised. Assuming that the ordinance were not enacted as an emergency ,measure, the staff would continue to review the applications for hardship consistent with the provision that now exists. In addition to that, if permits were given for construction that would not be consistent with the ordinance, they would be made provisional assuming that the second reading would be given and that there would be the 30 day suiting period. The other comment he wanted to make was in response to what Councilmember Clay was pursuing relative, in essence, to forgiving the excess use charges during the last billing period. If the Council is interested in doing that; the ways to carry that out would be by predating the resolution that is before the Council tonight, because the excess use charges are based upon the existing resolution that the Council enacted some months ago. So in essence to say that the City is not going to make those charges, they would need to predate the resolution. Mayor Sher said that would be the way that they would handle Councilmember Clay's point, As soon as the Council dealt with the emergency motion, Mayor Sher would recognize Councilmembee Clay to move to predate the reso- lution dealing with repeal of the •,aster rationing to the date that he thought the fine should be cue off. Councilmember Fletcher asked Mayor Sher if she understood qtr. Walker to say if this doesn't pass as en emergency item that customers will continue to be billed for excess use, with fines; etc. Mr. Walker replied that he was epeek- ing then to the ordinance that prohibits certain construction. The excess use charges are part of the resolution and that becomes effective immediately upon adoption or upon such date as the Council may set. The ordinance requires a second reading and a 30 day waiting period if it is not an emergency, and that has nothing to do with the excess uee charges, and applies only to restriction of water useage and the issuance of certain permits. Councilmember Carey er.ked if the first thing to be voted on was the emergency nature of the ordinance, aid was advised that it wane. He stated that was what he vented to speak to, because he emoted to talk Councilmember Eyerly out of voting against that if he could. He agreed with Mayor Sher that was really kind of semantic thing, it is not an emergency like the building burning darn. Al it really Beene is that the ordinance ie going to be effective upon the vote of the Council and will not be delayed for s second reading, plus thirty days until impleventation. If the Cecil is clear io its winds that they went to extend the water rationing ordinance and all the aspects of it, including the fines end limitations that wall fish, but be thought it was dear that the emergenoy was now over, and if they were in agreement, then they osght not to let it linger, and should act to get this ordinance off the books now. Councilmember Eyerly stated be appreciated what Councilmember Carey had said and he wanted to know what the City Attorney bad to say about emergency ordinances; can the Council enact this ordinance as an emergency measure. 601 2/6/78 Mr. Booth replied that the Council could en►'ct this ordinance as an emergency. He didn't recall that this program was put in as an emergency, but there was an attempt Dade to do so. Mayor Sher said that he thought the Council was ready to vote on that part of the motion which was to adopt the ordinance as an emergency ordinance. He called for the vote. AMENDMENT PASSED: The Clay amendment calling for the ordinance to be an emergency measure passed unanimously. Mayor Sher said if the ordinance passed it would be effective immediately, on an emergency basis. He said that it would be appropriate for Councilmember Clay to move an amendment to the resolution to repeal the rationing program to predate it. AMENDMENT: Councilmember Clay moved to predate to January 1, 1978, the resolution repealing Resolution No. 5420. There was no second. AMENDMENT FAILS: The amendment failed for lack of a second. MOTION PASSED: The motion passed unanimously. The resoi.utinn and ordinance (emergency) were adopted unanimously --both effective immediately. MOTION: Councilmember Pazzino moved, seconded by Vice Mayor Brenner, that the staff develop an on -going weter conservation program which will be reviewed by the Policy and Procedures C ittee. Councilmember Witherspoon asked Councii.uenber Pazzino exactly whet he had in mime for the Policy end Procedures Committee to discuss. Councilmember Pazzino acid that probably no more than what is being proposed in the last para'g'raph of the staff report whic'. states that the staff will focus 9n on A voluntary water conservation program. He would like to formalize the Council's support of that, aid he thought it would be very important to get publ;.c input at some point at the Policy and Procedures level. He believed that they all had to continue recognizing how valuable a resource water is. Councilmember Eyerly thought that Councilmember Fazsine's idea was good and that they needed to surface to the comity all the measures that residents might use to conserve water, and he watt sure that the staff is well aware of what these are, ro out of that mty come.sosse public papers for dissemination. It was also in his mint that the staff should do a little bit more than that; he thought there .was a: great paeaibility of another drought down the road some place, and it was his understanding from the allocations that the staff has been through, that it is within their gresp'to core up with a per capita plan very readily. What he would like to see incorporated in Councilsaez+ber Pazaino's motion is a staff report for a coutingency plan in case of another drought, they could do that quite readily from all the information they have and he would hope that they would include s per capita type wethcd with it. Councilmem"t-er Faxeino responded that that was an excellent idea, and he asked Councilmember Syerly if it was also his ides, that that be discussed at the Polity and Procedure,/ Committee. Councilmember Fazzino determined that was acceptable to dais second, and incorporated Councilmember Eyerly's suggestion in his motion. NOTION BIS,TATED: Councilmember Fazsino moved, seconded by Vice Mayor Brenner, that the staff developau ongoing wetter conservation program which will be reviewed by the Policy and Procedures Committee and said program to include a per capita plan. Vice for Brenner said that led into her thought ehich was that it would be helpful for paopbe generally Mho wish to work toward voluntary rationing to have some idea of Moat a per capita goal might be, a goal to *tea to aspire, 602 2/6/7 It is all very well to say, save water, but if one knows for example, that he is allowed to use three units per person, five units per person, or whatever, that was a little more realistic than just saying he wasn't wasting it. Councilmewber Clay announced that he was going to oppose this motion, it sounds good but he questioned whether it was really needed. When he looked at what the citizens of Palo Alto have tares?) done --better than any other community subjected to water rationing, --he questioned the need to have water conser- vation at all, The Council was asking staff to develop a program that was going to cost something and he didn't know what that cost would be, but he suspected that cost riay not be warranted given the demonstration of what Palo Altana wil do in any case. It bothered him even more that the City was paying, and will be paying for a water conservation program while at the sane time paying flood insurance premiums. Until they are reconciled, he could not support srending any more money for this type of program. The motion passed on the following vote: AYES: Brenner, Carey, Eyerly, Fazzino, Fletcher, Henderson Sher, Witherspoon NOES: Clay I TIDN: Councilmember Fazzino moved, seconded by Caret, that the Council refer the issue of water rates and rate design to the Finance and Public Works Committee for further review and recommendation. Counci.lmember Henderson thought that they should all know whet°e the rates stand now and where they were prior to the emergency. Mr. Aghjaysn replied that at the time San Francisco raised its water rates to the City, there was an increase of about 43%, in turn the City raised its rates by an average of 29%, and implemented a life line rate schedule as well, so consumers of less than four units a month had no increase at all and for large consumers it was in excess of 35%, so it was a sliding scale type of increase. In terms of what administrative expenses were included in the budget for this year that are nose being eliminated, $26,000 plus some administrative charges in advertising which edd up to another $5,000, those obviously can come out of the budget for the rest of the year. Councilmeaer Henderson ssked if the rates were reduced by the San Francisco PUC would the City automatically reduce its rates, or would they wait until the Commit4e meetint and then Council meeting before any action ie oaken. Hr. Agiljayan replied that any action in terms of changing rate struct”rea would require Council action. It would be staff's policy to brim, it to the Co-rnciil as quickly 86 possible ao that the new rates could be put into effect soon after Sep Francisco reco rds them. Couucilseaber Henderson stated he didn't wont to heave it drag on too long so that they could go back to the old rates or anything close to it. MOTION PASSED: The motion passed unan iuz u s l y . GOLF COURSE IM.FROVENERT PRC�EC : :8) Mayor Sher said that with the zoning ordinance scheduled for 8:30 p.m,, it was doubtful they were going to be able to finish the golf course matter tonight. It w.igbt be helpful to the stuff and others if Coun41Members lied any questi4aa or probleam that they simple wanted to state tonight, then the staff would be prepared to respond to them west time. He asked if they should do that. Mr. Srreiber replied that sounded like a good procedure. 663 24/7$ Mr. Schreiber wanted to note that Laura Stovall, staff member with Bartle Wells Associates is with them tonight, as well es Kenneth Jones, bond counsel. Mayor Sher said that he was not sure there would be time for questions rA answers, and he apologized for bringing them here when Council was not going to be able to deal with this matter. He thought it would be useful to have the Councilmembers briefly indicate any questions or problems that they might have had in reading what is quite a complicated report dealing with a complex group of matters. He assumed this item would be on next week's agenda. He didn't think it was appropriate to make arguments now or even to ask questions, but simply to indicate those matters that are bothering the members, and that they think need to be addressed. Councilmember Henderson stated that he would be interested to know what the current revenue is from the facility that is comparable to the cocktail lounge; and then what is the basis for the new projection on what the revenue would be from the proposed cocktail lounge; where does the City subsidy of approximately $273,000 come from; he assumed it was out of the Capital Improvement program, but he needed more information an that. Councilmember Henderson said that his question was what cannot be serviced in terms of the bonds from the revenues from the golf course; What does the City have to put into it from the general fund, over and above the revenues from the golf course in order to pay the bonds. Councilmember Eyerly said that on the "add alternates", and particularly a metal roof on the three rooms, he wanted to know what the total cost of an asphalt roof would be, so that they would have kind of a percentage increase for that metal roof, Also, he would like a little more explanation on the life expectancy of a metal roof being 30-35 years. Councilmember Carey said that he was prepared to make a notion. He listened to Councilmember Herderson's questions end he had similar questions, but he thought the ar?wers were essentially to, be found in the fact that the bonds available now are twenty-five year awortizatiorr as opposed to twenty, and the interest rate is a quarter of a percent lower, which make the annual payments lower. On the tsar he thought that there was very little doubt that it was going to be self paying, it would probably contribute to the cash flow. He couldn't think of any other municipal courses that don't have such a facility. MOTION: Councilmember Carey moved, seconded by Clay, that Council: 1. Approve a golf course renovation budget of $741,589 as outlined in Table I; 2. Approve for the golf course club house in:lusion of add altern- atives #'s 1 and 2 (Cocktail Lounge), #3 (Meeting Room Expansion), #5 (Special Carpet), #6 (Concrete Breezeway Floor Slab) and #8 (Solar Energy System) for a total club house budget of $966,241 as outlined in table TV; 3. ApprOve bonding alternative III in Table V which results in a $1,800,000 bonding level with an emus/ bond payment cost of between $143,400 and $146,750; 4. Approve the attached Eaaoluttcn Approving Form of Bone! Resolution of the City of Palo Alto Golf Course Corporation; 5. Approve the attachedOrdiaence of the Council of the City of Palo Approving and a itborixing_ &zecutiom of Areenellasnt to Lease of Golf Course ?agility and of Lea.ae ea Amended with the City of Palo Alto Golf Course Corporation; 6. Direct *toff to submit en ordinance reducing golf course fees for the period from April 1, 1978 to the completion of the course construction activity. 6 0 4 2/6/78 Mayor Sher noted that it was proper to :sake the motion, but he didn't think they would be able to vote on it because all the questions had to be answered and there is an item set down for 8:30 p.m. Mayor Sher than raised his questions about this project. He would want to pursue the point that Co'incil- member Henderson made about the revenues, and he had concerrs about how much of the general fund revenues will have to be used to service the bonds. If he understood the staff report, it suggested some forty to forty-six thousand dollars annually for 25 years would have to come out of the general fund. in order to service the bonds, and he wanted to be clear about that and see how that squares with earlier representations that the revenues from the golf course would in fact cover the costs of servicing the bonds. If indeed, there would be charges to the general fund for twenty-five years under the staff recommendation, he would like to find out how the project could be cut down in order that the revenues produced from the golf course operation are sufficient to cover the bonds that will be issued to provide the improvements. On the cocktail lounge, he wanted to raise some questions about what kind of a operation is contemplated whether that would be designed, if approved, simply as auxiliary to the golf course operations, or if it was contemplated that it mould be a lounge designed to attract outside customers, over and above the golf course users; and if it was not to be the latter, was there any way that thv City Could control, that matter in the leases or otherwise to make sure that ;t is simply ancillary and there would be no general advertisement. He noted Co.mcilmeraber Carey's interesting suggestion that patrons would have to weir golf shoes in the bar, maybe that was a good ides. Thole were some of the questions that he wished to pursue. Mayor Sher noted"that it was now 8:30 p.m., and they would have to turn to the other item and this would have to go over as unfinished business. Cruncilmewb r Clay said that he was Leady to vote on the motion, too, but he was going to ask that some other data be gathered while these questions are being answered, especially with respect to costs and the impact on the general fund. He asked that staff bring back along with the figures re the golf course drain on the general fund, the costs of other municipal recre- aticnal facilities in Palo Alto, such as tennis courts, swimming pools, and give Council comparative data, dollars and number of uses. That was a question he wanted answered and the other question was he wanted to know was how much was spent ,nnually on other recreational facilities in the City of Palo Alto, and the number of users, as compared to the number of users of the golf course Councilssmber Eyer?y stated that as long as they were interested in general fund revenues, he would like the figure surfaced for the Council as to how much money the golf course has put into the general fund since its inception. Councilmember Henderson said that if staff was directed to go into that kind of a study on all other recreational type activities that was a pretty major sssingment, and he didn't see how the staff could be expected to do that ktnd of a yob in a week or whatever kind of time they were talking about. Me assumed they were to give a proper analysis of all the City's recreational type activities, including the theatre, etc., Mayor Sher asked Mr. Schreiber how he would respond to that request. Mr. Schreiber replied that if the Council wishes to have gnat Information, xhat staff can do between now and next week is provide or pull together whatever information is available through the normal buiigeting report process. There would not be enough tie to go into it further. While he had indicated thee the project could be couttnued to next week, further continuance after that would cause seriaus problems in ret eining the low bids. The staff will provide whatever data is available. Council.eseber Clary esid that it was important because Council's questions tonight seemed to be leaning toward a determination as to What should happen. tc the golf- Bourse depending on What the strain is on the general fund. If that is the cute, be would like all of the recreational facilities which use general fund monies to be looked at as well. Ma thought it was tart: end. equitable that be doss„ 605 2/6/76 Mayor Sher repeated what 14r. Schreiber had esid--that staff would pull together as much information as they could in order to have this back before the Council next week. If the Council feels that it has inadequate information next week to proceed, they will just have to put it over to a later date. Councilmember Henderson pointed out that staff would have to include allocations of overhead and all types of things, it was not just a simple pulling out of the budget, as they knew, even the golf course operation is not all that clear. He just couldn't believe that staff could give the Council that kind of figure in a week. Mr. Walker suggested that since this item was being continued, that it be placed at the head of the agenda next week. NOTION TO CONTINUE: Vice Mayor Brenner moved, seconded by Mayor Sher, that the Golf Course Improvement Project be continued to February 13, and be the first item after the consent calendar. The matior to continue passed on a unenimoua vote. PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDS RE DRAFT ZONING ORDINANCE (Con t' d from 1/16 and 2/1/78 Mayor Sher announced that this item had been scheduled for 8:30 p.m. and that they had to turn to it at this point. He announced that they would be talking primarily about the commercial zones in the proposed now zoning ordinance tonight. Also, anyone wie +ing to say axnything about the open space zone and the A -C zone, which were technically before the Council last week but they didn't really talk about, may address those two matters toctight. If there is tine at the end of the meeting, the Council will also deal with the Chapter on the P -F zone and the P -C zone, and those are the only matters that are advertised for discussion tonight. First, there would be a limited period of pubic discussion tonight. First, there would be a limited period of public discussion. In order tc, know how that would be end whether he would have to limit people, he asked that anyone wishing to address the Council an any of these zones submit a card to the Clerk at this time. If he didn't receive it at thin time, he wouldn't be able to call on the person becsuse he was going to put as limit on the amount of time for public discussion tonight, GUM* the Council has already devoted a full meeting a few minutes in order to get cards frost the public who wished to address the Council on the zones it would be considering tonight. Mayor Sher received eleven cards from the public end set a five minute time limit for each sir, which meant that under an hour would be needed for public diacussion. Ne stated that he would cell on people in the order that be bad received their cards ;mod that he 'would not accept eey more cards. He announeed that the soh a dull vas that .the Council would leer from the public, have a brief recess, and after that the Council would consider the aoue that be indicated earlier: OS..0 Section 1837, which is the office rem arch zone; Section 1641 C4%, Section 1843 C -C; Seaaion 1641 C -S; Section 1647 P and then if there is time, they will do Section 1832, vd'ith is P -F end Section 1868, which is P -C. Dr. Herbert Zeman, 444 #fit Charleston loads co-chairman of the Charleston Neighborhood Associeetton, stated that they had been in contact with the Feature and larvae Park Neighborhood Aseociationes and that the three groups bays similar vies o the issues. Se stated that in general they were very pleased with the Ivey the Playing Commission hss written the order, especially those sections referring to the commercial sows. They mere basically very satisfied with die descriptions, and the only possible additioza that they aiat rat is an inclusion of a nuisance clause, one similar givens to that on Pas 133, at the bottom in the I M$ sane, sal t else In the some. It seems like a 1: ll le Vie, it is sort e f asking that those things that the 006 0/if i0 people wouldn't want just not be included or if the neighbors complain that there be some way of stopping these kinds of nuisances. More importantly than that, they would feel that it is very important the way these zones are applied. Right now, the City really has an over abun4ance of commercial areas and studies that have been done have shown that there is really a lack of housing in Palo Alto and in the whole of Santa Clara Ceuuty, especially in the Northern section. He thought that comments made last week by Councilmenabers indicate that they felt the only way that more residential could he made available in the City was by having higher densities in the already established residential areas. He thought that a much better way of increasing the amount of housing available would be to take some of the marginal commercial zones, or areas that are unsuccessful and change them into multi -family residential zones, as has been proposed in the planning map and the Comprehensive Plan for Palo Alto. Of course, the areas that the Association were interested ie would be on El Camino and El Camino Way, and also similar areas on Middlefield Road in the Mid -Town District. Mr. Kenneth Buckwalter said that he represented Ken Dames, who is the owner of Auto Port, Ltd., located on El Camino. Re believed that the Council may have received a letter sent to them expressing their major concerns. He noticed that in the Palo Alto Times tonight there was a report regarding the Chamber of Commerce's letter to the Council, speakir.3 to the appropriateness of neighborhood commercial zoning along El Camino Reel and wheresoever. Obviously, hie comments in his letter were directed only to the amortization part of the regulations as applied to neighborhood commercial which Mr. Dames' business would, presumably, be located in. They were in complete agreement with the Chamber of Commerce's position that .: closer look has to be taken at whether along the El. Canino strip of commercial there should be neighborhood commercial at ell, as opposed to there just being service commercial. Their concerns light now, are basically private concerns for Mr. Dams' business. Using Mr. Dens property as an example, and this applies to neighborhood commercial and a number of other zoning classifications, whether ft be commercial or residential, where anything is going to be made into a non -conforming use and obviously that is the case with changing what is now a (service commercial under the current zoning into neighborhood commercial, the problems is what happen to the value of that property. Mr. Dames purchased that property in 1970, and it was essentially an autowotive service at that cime which was rot tu very good shape. Working with the City, he got approval. to . rout in his own automotive service business, changed the building that was there, added a new showroom, and made it the kind of establishment .it is right now. Obviouly, he wouldn't have entered into such a venture if he had thought that twenty yearn down the roe he was going to lose the use of that property. Also, the City doesn't reasonably approve a new building and then change their mind and ask the owner to rye it twenty years later, Twenty years to some people seems lie a long period of time, but in a businese it is :net. The mortgage on the building is for twenty yeara, by the time Mt. Dames has finished paying off the building, he is only going to have a few years left to use it under the new regulations. It is not even going to be depreciated for his, income tali purposes by the time that he is told that he has got to chaise the use of that building, end that he may even have to remove it. That was why Mr. Su alter was directing his cants to the amortization schedule, because of the nature of the building, it is a wood frame ldi � *, Dames will be significantly Burt. If he had the 35 year amortization period applicable to his property it wouldn't be as aerioua, but it is definitely setious here. Be thought that if the City were going to use en amortizatioo schedule and he thought that was a reeronable whey to do it for non -conforming uses, that it ought to use a more realistic and more reaaonsble 'amortization schedule and that was: to us* the IRS guide- lines. Actually people fudge those around a little bit when they are doing bt�1 2/6/18 their taxes and use a shorter life than is actually allowed, but the guidelines themselves indicate what is a reasonable and realistic useful life of a building. Essentially what they have here is a building that was new or mostly new in 1971, and should have a useful economic life of forty-five years from then, that is going to have only a economically useful life under these regulations of something like 22 years, or half of what it should have. That was a significant burden and something that this Council should consider, again, not just with respect to the neighborhood commercial, but with everything that is going to be a non- conforming use. Richard Rluzeke ?4aaager of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce, 2 Palo Alto Square, said the Chamber did address over his signature a letter to the Council, dated February 1, which generally auuaaarizes the basic views of the Chamber's task force, which has been looking at this problem for the past several. months. A couple of comments are made in that letter which he thought might bear Basle elaboration, and might help emphasize one of the points. They do indicate that this is an area which basically should have separate and distinct zoning, that recognizes unique qualities of El Camino and partial parts of San Antonio Road area. This area has been under a self improvement phase for better than the last ten years, starting with the widening and improvement of El Camino Real itself in the late sixties. Be just made a list today which illustrates the kind of things that have been happening. Starting on the north side, with the Reliday Inn of Palo Altos, The Sun Dance Mime Company, the Winery, the San Francisco Federal Savings and Loan, Palo Alto Square, El Pescadero, The Fishmarket, MacDonaids , Golf aud Tennis Worlds, Avis Rent -a -car, R{ckey's Hyatt House, California First Bank, Lutz Ford, Palo Alto Chrysler Plymouth, Jim Loose, Western Audio, La Terrasse, and The Antique; eighteen fines, hotels, restaurants, savings 4nd loans, banks, sporting goods, auto -related, and all regionally orientated, a t)tal in excess of $20 million has been invested in improvements. All of thoa°., if he were to call then "commercial", he would call "service commercial," not "neighborhood commercial." It was his recollection that, in the same period of tine, those businesses that might be called neighborhood commercial in orientation, by and large Lave failed. The moat recent one, was Rank's Hardware. It is not the place for a neighborhood commercial type business to be expected to suetaiu just because it is put there by mandate of an ordinance. However, with a separate and distinct classification, there is perhaps a place for both neighborhood .and service commercial, and this is called for in the Comprehensive Praxes to Page 18 of the adopted Plan, Program 5 does say, and hie quoted,_ "A new commercial sone sbeuld be defined which combines neighborhood commercial with some service commercial, compatible with El Camino frontage and .the residential neighborhood behind. The primary purpose of this program would be to encourage -and to retain supermarkets, drug stores, variety stores and oast business eloag El Cagle* Real that would serve the adjacent residential neighbo!boode," The Cheer has no quarrel with that, and concurs wholeheartedly, but the problem ham not yet been r newereed in this ordinance. He had been told by Georg* Zimmerman, of the Plasnnieg Department, this marring that the Council a ouid be covering both Cl` a d C -S aces and he did have some cite to make, stertiag on page 95, end they have made the emphaaie that consideration should he given to perhaps s separate CN-2 tone for the El - Caaeino. Copaiderind that tile alternative is other neighborhood commercial monies, there. estili needs to be medificatioa. His Commute in relation to carccerns ik the CN one itmeif do not nsceeaar ily apply, is the Clamor's sande, to the 11 Camino. Under permitted uaep, the Chesber think the cN ease should includeefinanciel services and - anivel care excludine board and kennels as permitted, not conditional cases, Under site dsyslopmernt regulations, on Page 97, the Cher thinks the frost said setback of 20'14 excessive, and the 20 yard set back on .El Camp would make most C -N buildings nod -complying and would probably substantially limit of doter the improvement of Wild -logs on shallow tote aloes the El C. uo iRasl.. It ie just impractical to develop on those exist- ing shallow lots with that bind of a set back. In its letter, the Cheer 601 216/7$ made a comment on the street side yard, and perhaps, this was more of a question than a statement, instead of a 20' side set back in a C -N zone, maybe it should be 16', perhaps even less in order to at leant be consistent with the residential zones, because residential use is permitted in the C -N zones. On page 98, the Chamber felt that the height is too low at 25', it should be at least 35' to be consistent with the residential zone. In summery, the :hamber has sent the Council its remarks in writing and he was here to answer questions if the Council had any. Mayor Sher asked NA. Lawrence to limit her comments to the commercial zone and if they finished the commercial zones; and if there was time, he would give her an opportunity to speak about the PC's. Me. Cypey Laurence, 1031 Harker, said she was treasurer of the Palo Alto Civic League and she spoke for the League. The concern of the Palo Alto Civic League in regards to this zoning ordinance is that in ito case shed soy property be up zoned from its present useage. Under the new ordinance, zones should be at least as restricted as in the old, if not more so in some cases. For instance, shoat all the commercial area in the California area is shown red on the land, use map, or in other words, comity commercial which has a 50' height limit. At present, much of that area is zoned C-2 fog food service and commercial which has a 35' liwit. The Civic League points this out only as an example of up -zoning that could happen. They urge the Council to hold the line on any up - zoning and to consider the ramifications of this sort of thing in terms of additional traffic and parking problems and so forth. John Breedlove, Stanford University, commented on the item relating to the community commercial zone, the Stanford Shopping Center. In Section 18.43.050, page s 5, Item K, discusses restrictions on outdoor selling and in effect limit3 outdoor sales to 1,000 square feet and only for plant materials and garden supplies, and for one other use, which is unrestricted as to size, and wh{cue is outdoor eating. The Stanford Shopping Center currently has close to 2,000 square feet devoted to the sale of outdoor plants and garden materials in the new operation called the Victoria Gardens whI.;h opened not too many months ago In addition, Stanford Shopping Center, as most shopping centers do, carried on a variety of scales and promotion events t.hrvughout the year in a small arca defined as outdoor space around the perimeter sidewalks of the shopping center buildings and occaaionatly• in the parking lot. These range from antique sales, art shows to charity events, and to his knowledge these events have never been objected to, but as they read the ordinance as now Crafted, none of these would be permitted withoet some kind of special use permit or procedure which the Stanford iIniverrsity feels is unnecessary. For example, last year there were two art shove which v►irtaally filled ell thee . ell eps e vaith, - o1 course, room for people to more around, but there were 100 yr more artists at encb sheer. It seer to be * sort of unreasonable requiraw t 'to impose on shopping centers vhtch have this king . of event, so ha gtotese What they weeras requesting wee diet some change be made in this provision -end he thought that they weals! prefer to see shopping centers excepted from this requirement. Shopping centers being as has been defies under the definiti-,on section in the ordinance. Villia m cutler, 4114 Park 11vd, , Palo Alto, apole in seaport of the neighborhood coeeerciel and service commercial mains for the 11 Camino area, Da and his family do patronise the establishments there, they enjoy being able to walk and bicycle to the restaurants. His son is fascia/iced by the 4katebcard store on El Camino Way, they fraequert the barber shop there, and on Christmas Day he wee very happy to find that the little grocery store on 11 Camino vas open. So he thousht that there as a good argument for neighborhood commercial sand service commercial that old serve time community. With a creative arrangement where businesee. would reinforce one another by having related businesses in the same area, by providing as atmosphere in which people can feel comfortable in walking and by providing some parking which is a little easier than coming right in off El Camino, that could be made a very viable commercial area and he would like to see it developed in such a way that would be compatible and enhance the nei;hborhoode which are adjacent to it on either side. John Miller, 3736 Cass Way, Barron Park, stated that they had arrived to the point of neighborhood commercial district regulations. The residents is Palo Alto have spent a great deal of time and effort in the development of a Comprehensive Plan which vas adopted by the City Council. The neigh- borhood commercial is defined for several areas of Palo Alto, the mid -town, Churchill and El Camino, and other areas iecluuding part, but not all of El Camino Real between Page Kill, Arastradero and Charleston. This area was not slated to be a regional commercial district to service large areas; Stanford Shopping Center, Downtown Palo Alto, California Avenue near El Camino and other areas were. Council now has a chance to make El Camino a reasonably decent part of the comity. There has been a moratorium on construction here and it has served a useful purpose. The moratorium may be lifted when the neighborhood commercial is established. There are designated service commercial Bones end neighborhood commercial zones on El Camino Real and on El Camino Way which service and should increase service to the neighborhood. When a non - compatible commercial district exists it can have a negative effect on its residential neighbors, if it has residential neighbors. The zoning ordinances as proposed were developed by the planning staff and the Planning ComMission after a great deal of hearings and a great deal of input, from all segments of the people in Pale Alto, and suggested height aid setback regulations next to neighborhoods ehould be continued a > stated. This area of Palo Alto recently went through a pr&bleu, of a muffler shop, and it was demonstrated that industries such ae muffler shops, transmissio:a sho s, and similar industries which draw a lot of traffic, are not suitable for this area. The Comprehensive Plan and other zones in the ordina-tce include these in regional community commercial service and commercial light industrial districts. Where that commercial district exists it has a negative effect on residential neighbors. Robert Noss, 4010 Orme, stated he opposed the Chamber of Comraerces' objections to the neighborhood commercial zone. El Camino has been service commercial and other zones foe aany years and as a result there has been a kind of blight --- vacant lour, vacant buildings --and low level uses that the community unity was afflicted nth for so many yenta. Be agreed with the Chamber that El amino weds a special use. That specie/ use is neighborhood commercial. This conclusie i is the result of years of argot, discusaaion and striving between the citizens in the community, the Planning Commission and the ?Lanning staff. He didn't think that they should taker with that neighborhood commereia1 cowept. Mt. Rlusek discussed a number of businesses along El Camino as esamplea of . investments in the Community. Only one of those businesses is in the one designated as neighborhood commercial, that is La Terrace Restaurant, end be tight they had board many times about the probl`,:am they had had with isadequactae parrking - use of that were. Everything else ' is either from the ra .lgoad trams berth or frcas. !lull aeauth. It is not in the area. they were discussing. Se informed Mr. lima that Serk's Hardware did not go out of business because they weren't supported by tb s community, it was because the owners found that rur ,img a hardware store required an awful lot of time and effort, more than they were willing to put in. Another cont which was wade west that tbe urn* along El Cimino are regionally oriented automotive. That is exactly the complaint the people in the ity have wade, let's get rid of time sea. Seep the,rseigbborbood commercial, don't fiddle with it except for WNW for improvements. Tor example* page 97, Section 18.41.040, Conditional Units. Mike it explicit in Section g that there shall be no repay facilities in the coeditionel use. There is one oversight that Co+sncilvembmrs Carey end Sanderson picked up is the discussion on the industrial sows and that is on page 100, liaise 34 and oee page 101, lines f, 30,11 And 1S ire protection is provided i+ded only for Single-Yamily, should be included also, at least at the XN-I and 2S-2 level, the same as the protection afforded for industrial cones. Agsin, on Use 1 on pags 101, ire it refers to a single family or townhouse development PC, he thought that should he multi -racily. He suggested that on page 100, that the last sentence in Paragtaaph 2, lines 29, 30 and 31, 8hculd be deleted so that the referec..e to not requiring useable opera space for mixed uses is removed. He d'8cussed that last week in the case of the industrial zones. On the same page, lines 23 and 24, delete the words "no minimum site area per dwellie:g unit shall apply provided that", again so that they didn't have the sue -Standard residential project on the mixed site. On page 111, in the Service Commercial Districts, line 3, Automotive Services, instead of being a permitted use, be would recommend that they be conditional use. On line 15, showing Commercial Recreation as a conditional use, he would like to see that deleted all together. In the case of the Service Commercial, again on page 115, he would make the saw recommendation as to adding the multi -family zones on lines 12, 17, 22, 26, and 33. Again, changing the definition of townhouse on line 13 to multi- family. Once again, striking the last sentence on lines 7, 8 and 9 for mixed residential and non-residential use on any site no useable open space shall be required. The last comment he vented to sake on the commercial zones relates to the staff m se of January 26, responding to a recommeadation 'hat nuisance clause be added for commercial zones similar to the LK zones and toe staff response was that that couldn't be administered. He would like to assure the Council that toxic and noxious chemicals are not respectors of zoning ordinances, and ben7ine is just as toxic and just as carcinogenic when it is used in a commercial zone as when it is used in a manufacturing zone. He was sure that the staff was not telling the Council chat they were incapable of protecting the community's safety, health and welfare and he wou'-i like to see that phrase inniuded in all commercial zones as is is in industrial zones. William Thompson, 410 Wilson Avenuc, said he supported t e neighborhood com- mercial Zone pretty much as written. He thought that the Planning Co Ission put in a lot of work on this zone, with s lot of, citizen participation and on balance the product was an excellent one which deserves all of their support. He was ratbei put out by those that come .in now so late In the gave and suggest that they abolish the neighborhood zone on El Camino. Quite clearly he would put the Chamber of Commerc-s in this category. Mr. Koss has already }pointed out that of the 18 auto --related, re -lanai --oriented $20 million e. rth of business cited tonight only one is actually i.0 the neighborhood commercial area of the land use soap. He thought that made it a rather factitious claim which was rather beside the point for tontghte ccneideratione. Mr. Moss else mentioned Hank's hardware; and that was mentioned by the representative from the Ch mbe- as being an example of a neighborhood oriented business which closed fer lack of neighborhood support. He lived quite close to lack's Hardware, and during the time that it was open, he thought it vas delightful to have a hardware store Ago clog by, except that everytiaawe he vent to find something in Hankie Hat'dware, they were out of stock. He thought that there were game perfectly valid r.easens why wk's Hardware closed down. It could be that the owners closed down because it was tuo much work, but he thought that even had they tried maintaining the kinds of stocks that they did they would have closed down in any location saywhere and he didn't think they could use that se an example of a neighborhood failing to support a busi0085. In fact, he and his neighbors tried very hard to support Hank's Hardware in spite of Hank's Hardware's problem*, but when they couldn't find something, they coul 't buy it. He thought the Chamber of Coumerce should reasesber, and he was sure the Council waaa yell amore that no one is proposing neighborhood commercial for the entire El Camino area, on the land use map et ieae t, it to a rather small portion of the El Casino and he didn't think it was really going to cause anybody any se, a bous baardablps. Where some real demonstrable hardship exists that the amortization schedules don't meet, be would imagine that that etiad.om of the Council end the staff is such that some s<aalut 4n that particular problem could be arranged. Ho hadn't beard any evidence that convinced hie that there would in fact be any serious hardship to any of the p*ople presently in this neighborhood commercial area that wouldn't be solved by the present amortisation schedule. Is concivaioq, be said that ill 2/6/711 there were indeed ways to make a viable commercial area which conforms to the specifications set out in the zoning ordinance and which can in fact serve the community as well as being a healthy area for business. He thought they could make /Yam area which sill I.l be compatible with actual human traffic in addition to automobile traffic. Denny Petrosian, 443 Ventura Avenue, stated that a lot of what she wanted to say had already been said. These final weeks of rezoning that they were going through marks the culmination of years that her neighborhood has worked with the City. At last it has achieved what all other neighborhoods in Palo Alto have, and that is a decent living environment. She has been encouraged to think that maybe Palo Alto really does recognize the right of low-income people to live in an environment that is safe and humane like the ones that the more affluent have always enjoyed. She strongly urged the Council to adopt the neighborhood commercial, and service commercial zoning the way the Planning Commission has written them, with, she hoped a fee'minor changes which she had mentioned before. If anyone wanted copies of the letter uhe distributed a few weeks ago, she had them available. The neighborhood commercial zone does fulfill all of the intents of the Comprehensive Plan and she took issue with others who think that a separate zone is now necessary. A deparate zone for El Cemino would mean that the rest of Palo Alto would get a nice neighbor- hood commercial rove and they, as in the past, would get the commercial develop - vent that the rest of Palo Alto doesn't want. The upgrading of Fl Casino, in her neighborhood anyway, is not due to anything less than the fine efforts of the Palo Alto police departments she would like to see credit given where credit is du=. The neighborhood commercial zone has a much broader range of uses and inclu4es some of the service commercial that is indicated as being needed in the Comprehensive Plan, such as financial instigations which is a service which is not provided in the old neighborhood commercial zone, even conditionally. As far as having neighborhood csromekciai businesses there new, she thought that anyone could testify that Stanley's Florist, the Ramparts Drug Store, t"e Tram he Music Store, the market and the upholstery shop have been there °,,or a good many years and have taken strong root despite the adverse conditions that they have had to endure. Now she would like to call attention to the serious health hazard of the possibility of auto repair shops using toxic materials locating in the service commercial zones which right ticw exist on the El Camino, businesses such as a spray painter or body shop operation. There are several places where they could come in and endanger the health of residents who are directly behind. Chronic exposure to compounds in auto paint such as heavy metals aed petroleum distillates could lead, over a time, to a higher incidence of birth defects, mental retardation, cancers and other unpleasant illnesses. There are no adequate controls on these compounds tight now and she has had personal ezperiience this year with just this problem. The balcony of a nearby apartment hid chemical compunds that were known to be very severe carcinogenice and she closed her doors and windows and they still cam in to her apartment to such an extent that she had to leave for the better part of a week and unable to live there. She therfore urged a conditional use permit for auto repair shops within 500 feet of a reside under Service Co; rcia1 so that, while some auto repair night still come in that could be considered compatible, three that really threatened health could be prevented. Vev tuna residents have come to seating after meeting, year after year, to protect themselves from just these kind of toxic operations and she strongly supported tar . fuss' comments on the net:e ,city of the nuisance clause. Otherwise, if the City has two *ones that specifically deter uoxieus businesses with a nuisance elms., those people who want to operate noxious bueineesea will go to those tans share such as ciewe ,is not . in effect and that happens to be right around the corn*r from re she lives, so right- now'the me he absence of those Nausea `is an iravitatiee. Site else suPported Mon FIetcber's concern with drive-in and taut se vices. - Sams !aster, 3744 Laguna Oaks Piece, stated that he bad been a board member of berron Park Association since approximately 1962 mud over all that petlai of time they have been very concerned vith the overall develops ent 1 their 612 2/6/78 co mity in Barron Park and the El Camino. The first genera/plan, which consisted of a very extensive study in this area, considered the islands along El Camino. Just for the record, here, he would like to give some considerations for the neighhcrhood commercial zoning along the central area there bordering the Ventura -Barron Park area on El Camino. Primarily residential exists on both sides of E1 Camino adjacent to the commercial development. True, existing commercial on El Camino is less than one block in depth intermingling with R-1 and multi -family units in this region. New businesses have been established on El Camino since the clearing of the massage parlors through the expensive efforts of the City and much of the work of his committee. Many of these small businesses are still viable. He didn't know of any of those businesses that have been established replacing the massage parlors that have been displaced, in other words, they are still actively in business. Actually, unlimited commercial has no place with -he Barron Park -Ventura frontage on El Camino. Similar consideration for the residential should be made for zoning along other main thoroughfares throughout the City. Much of the commercial zone, for example California Avenue, is several blocks in depth; it is typically a light commercial, business commercial area. It has displaced residential. in the past, however already there is a clustering of commercial which is reasonable. Further clong the strip, the cross traffic and the through traffic are very serious problems, considerations and studies are continuing at this time. Some of the suggestions are to actually increase the cross traffic with signals, with walkways, with dividers, and in each of these cases this is commensurate with the neigh- borhood nature of the community. They are presently undergoing the cl_°sure of one of their schools that is going to result in a lot of cross El Camino traffic for youngsters, K-6 graders primarily, and also the junior high as it exists. He was sure that the Council had taken all these things into consideration in the past planning, he had been privy to much of the deliberations and he was going to trust in the Council`s good judgment to contain this. Jack Wheatley, 2240 Cowper, of Wheatley -Jacobson, addressed two items pertaining to service commercial zo tee, which were writt:en in a communica- tion to the Council. He said his company, Wheatley -Jacobson, thinks that warehousing should be a permitted use in Service Com.aercial Zennes. He understood some of the reasons why it has not been included, but they find that under present uses of saf.l.dings which' they currently represet t in this zone, warehouses are coma awt ible with the permitted uses. Warehouses are essential to the neighborhood commercial and industrial uses located close by, and when placed en property that is verr close to a remote location, would create additional traffic in remote areas. Some of the warehousing uses which apply to the firs in tbe'.iudustria2 park are located extremely close to the park and the traffic congestion caused by trucks going back and forth in an Already busy area should be considered. On properties which front on El Cam, which la the reason.. be was given as to why they didn't want to have the warehousing use in those zones, the Council May want to give some ccxrasidefaatio i to those that are fronting right on El Camino. The piece of property which lel represented, is basiicaal.ly back on Park' and there ere no residential areas along side it; it also has a railroad access and spur and is one of the very fev properties n the City that has that. Like ice, be would like to reque.it considerati-:` be given to light manufacturing as a conditional use. Light masufactutin has been tarried on. in this particular property, for some years. They think it is also 'compatible with permitted uses in this zone such as general business services including printing plant, lumber yards, elea niag ,plants etc. The use of certain manufacturing procedures which are Conducted at the moment, he believed, ere dot Obnoxious to the neigir- bozbocei Misch of the use of this particular piece of property, which is as large piece, - is currently light manufacturing and warehousing. If not permitted, the eroperty mould go into a non-conformance status end there would be roughly to hundred thousand feet of non - reforming eese. lid. Wheatley said the City would final that this use would then have to move further out 613 2/6/76 or into another City and find transpertatioa back and forth to the firms which use it. Be said that he would be happy to answer any questions on his letter. Councilmember Carey asked Mr. Wheatley about his recommendation No. 5, reducing the loading space from 12 x 25 to 10 x 20. He asked him to tell the Council why he felt that reduced area would be sufficient. Mr. Wheatley replied that most of the uses which are accomplished here in the Palo Alto area are not heavy manufacturing. He knew of no types of heavy manufacturing operations. His company finds that in the buildings which they manage this _ype of a loading zone is adequate for the amount of trucks coming in. A few larger trucks do come in, but they merely bilag a single delivery. Most buildings that are used, that he knows about, seldom have a truck back into a loading dock. They have this current size of loading space as a requirement and to the best of his knowledge it does not cause problems. There are certain instances where they have increased those, for specific uses on properties but as the example they have given shown, he thought the Council would find that, particularly on smaller buildings, they would end up with a lot more asphalt then is needed. Most deliveries that come in to Palo Alto are coming in is smaller vehicles, David Jeong, 4056 Park Blvd., said he was speaking for the Ventura Neighborhood Association. Again, certain interests are attempting to circumvent established orderly proceedings. The neighborhood commercial zone on El Camino Real has been aired before the Planning Commission during- the Comprehensive elan Drafting, before the City Council during the adoption of the Plan, before the: Planning Commission again during the zoning ordinances hearing and "now again before the City Council. ILe residents have voiced their desires in these hearings and have followed the established procedures. Since most of the persons have followed the Planning Commission hearings, they know that suggestions sehmitted at these hearings allow time for careful coresideration and modification prior to adoption. The reason why the Association vents the neighborhood commercial had been stated many times and will not be repeaters now. The Ventura Neighbor- hood Association stands united with the Barron Park Association and the Charles- ton Meadows Association in their desire to implement the Comprehensive Plan and ►ipgrede the El Camino Real in their area. Mayor Sher announced that they bad reached the time they had set aside tonight for public cats, and Council would take a ten minute recess. After the recess, if the staff has any comments on these zones the Council will hear then and then the Council will have the opportunity to move any amendments it might wish t: tome particular zones. The. Council. recessed from 9:30 p.m. to 9:50 p.m. Mayor Sher called the meeting to order and returned to the Council a s consideration of the pry wing order. He announced that =Sit has agreed to broadcast the special eeeting on Yebruary 7, 1978, Hs said that at this point, the Council would turn to the consideTetion of ".ha zones that he mentioned at the outset which include the Cg amid AC zom as, the axe Chapters .1871 and 1872, bit he thought that wet of the p assent thy* the Council had heard wee related to the c 'ciel sons 1541, 1343, 1845, 1447; the P sone 1837, office research eione, all of three are before the Cecil. The Council will rimer that the current posture is the motes which sae weds at the . outset of the meting :tact week, moving . we ordieance which vould adopt the prop'ose'd zoning ordinance ss the Council received it from the Planning Commission, and then that ways more or less loft as the :table, and Councils/Ambers have an opportunity to mov&" ts, *ow of which were moved in the residential and industrial tones last week, and the wale procedure will be followed tonight. His first called en the staff for very brief coats on a couple of points that they wish to make in regard to these commercial . 614 2/6/78 Seorge Zimmerman, Senior Planner, pointed out that there were several staff recommended changes in previous memos distributed to Council. In terms of errata, staff would recommend fiat No. 4a aed 4b in the QSR 115:8, dated Jan. 12 be approved by Council, and that pertains to the commercial zones; and also in that same memo, that No. 5 be approved by Council. Mayor Sher asked if it would be possible to get the Council's agreement that errata simply be corrected by the staff and without any requirement that the Council move those. He asked if there were any objection to that procedure. There was none, so he stated that they would just take it that the simple corrections, technical points of that kind, the staff was free to go ahead and make and there would be reflected when the Council receives the final wrap-up of the Frclosed zoning ordinance. Mr. Zimmerman said that in terms of any substan- tive recommendations that staff has made in previous recommendations to Council, be would like to point out No. 18 on the 04R 129:8, which is dated -Taruary 26, and that is in response to the request that warehousing and distribution be a permitted or conditional use CF zone. Staff recommends that warehousing and distribution be added to the CF zone ss a conditional use. Mayor Sher asked if there were any other substantive points. Mr. Zim- merman said that there was one other which pertains to PC and they would take that up later in the evening. Mayo:- Sher said that was a substantive point and he would let Councilmembero pick that up if any chose to do so; he thought that relates to the point that Mr. Wheatley discussed in his comments. He noted the matter was returned to the Council and this was the time to ask questions or indeed co make motions in connection with the chapters that he had listed. Councilm• giber Henderson expres.ed asta{_n his overall pleasure with the work that was done on t:'e cmmercial district regulations, any changes that he has are quite minor, and he thought that an excellent job had been done by staff and the Commission. AKENDMENT: Councilmemb.r Henderson moved, second.A by Carey, that on page .97, lire 12, under neighborhood cc royal diatric, regulations, for drive-in services or take-out services associated with permitted uses to add the woods, ':a :iximum of two ;aka -out services shall be permitted within 1,000 feet and each not less than 150 feet from each other." Councilmesaber Fletcher addressed the potion eai`cich was on the floor. She said that first she would discuss the take-out services and she would prefer if take-out services were also under a conditional use permit. She was advised that they are. Councilmember Fletcher said that she was not sure how to epptoacb this but, she did have a pending asendent on the hack burner regarding the drive-in services per se, Which relate to all types of drive-in services, in other words, financial institutions too. Mayor Sher said that if Mrs. Fletcher for example, wanted to delete drive- in services altogether, she could ns;rare that as a substitute motion for the amendment. He asked her if it were for all coamerci, l zones, not just this one zone, and she replied that it would be for all commercial zones. Mayor Sher said that vas tbcr broader question dud it would be useful to tackle it row, so he would recogaize a motion to delete drive-in services zrom all the commercial zone*. He asked her it that,was her motion. SUB$TITL.'rt 11NZOOMEMf: Counciimeaber Fletcher gloved, seemoded by Brenner, to delete drive-in services from all commercial zones, Mayor Sher noted this was a substitute amendment that wouid.aeske Councilmember. Henderson's amendment moot it it succeeded. Counci laasmber in services. to gather s1l instance, the 615 2/6/71! Fletcher said there were many aspects to her objection+ to drive - The staff reports from various cf,ties that she `,bas been aide support the contention that there ar% various pcob1.rs; for aesthetic problem, the Cupertinostaff memSer slates that -.` i1 the drive -up facilities, even when serving larger commercial structures negatively affect the aesthetics of the site. "The effect is created by the need for stacking lanes, the sight of automobiles utilizing these lares and the impact that such orientation has upon pedestrial use or, the sane site." She pointed out that she had visited a number of these establisrmenta, including banks, Jack -in -the -Box, especially at Jack••in-the-Box the cars did back up into the side street across the sidewalk, and it was difficult for the people who were parking to walk into the restaurant,beceuse of the line up of care in all directions. The civic image of drive-in facilities portray a strip commercial connotation which the Council is trying to eliminate brad, of course, there es the hrpi llr i eeee � �wr _ ehme _e `- that _ L1��: auto_ LV_ .. � - mobile is accommodeeed life styles will be come increasingly dependent upon its use. To illustrate that, she had included in the packet a short article written by a bicycle rider who was told he couldn't be served at Y drive-in facility unless he came back in an asutowohii.e. This has happened to several people she knew, including members of her family. Of course, the cars idling while waiting in line create a high level of pollution which is a bezard to everybody in the area; the Council is trying to cut down on pollution, and energy use. These two arguments, incidentaiiiy, have been used extensively when the Council has been asked to provide wid€r, bigger, more roadways for the cars, because stacking does create these problems and they are recognized as problems. The /Association of Planners Report points out that the fast food services cause traffic backups, parking congestion, loitering and litter from the disposable container?. They also point out that it does cause the property values of near -by residences to decrease. In Saratoga, it was pointed out that to stand in line• in a car as opposed to getting out of the car to approach a business is not conducive to commercial interaction, in other words when a person was in his car he was more likely to ,just visit that one facility and then drive on whereas if the person got out of his car, he was likely to be attracted to other businesses and to do business in facilities other than the one he had taegeted to begin with. Then the report from Proiessoa irant:ck of San Jose State points out that a group of vehicles waiting in line with engines idling made about ten times the quantity of pollutants es do the same cars with the engines turned off. It is just an illogical use of the automobile to have it parked with the engine going for an unnecessary amount of time. The intake of the heaters, air conditioning fans in the cars are being flooded with the exhaeuat gases frOm the cars ahead and the sir in the interior of the car would probably reach significant levels end cause a health hazard to adulte and especially children in the car. The problem of the catalitic mufflers which are being required for pollution control standards is chat they creete sulfuric acid, which is a significant health hazard and the professor points out that t hia is a latent problem which is growing. Right now eiiout ten percent of the cars are equipped with these mufflers sad aas all cars are eventually going .to have to have these, phis is going to be a very significant health hazard. Re points out that the centiuuing practice of providing drive -up window service must seriously be considered both from sir quality and health standards point of view, as well as from the point of view of energy that is being wasted. Counciliember Fletcher added that all the studies that she had collected agree; that there is no study that ebe has come across that bas any argument with any of these, fan fact, one that was not reproduced for th.: packet is fruit the Planning Commissioner's Association of Santa Clara County. They adopted unanimously the report of the Air Quasaletty Committee of the California Planning Commissioner's Association. One of the techniques for reduCiug air pollution suggests running motor regulations a drive -tap facility regulations, and she thought for tie has cost when they must serionely look at those. Right now. there are enough drive -tip facilities to take cart of those who -feel that they can't do without them; she saw no reason to invite mote--tb.y create sir pollutions and all the other problems that she has listed. A lint '2 the never banks are 'wing constructed without drive -up facil- ities, they have wraalkt up windows Mkt*' art very handy. M noon time she watched Wellas Fargo 8siric--it brit ten' mulk-tip' ndOwss with preferential parking for those who uae the Welk up windows.' Therm yeti fro* tae to fifteen 'people 6 1 6 2/6/719 standing in line at these windows and she was trying to picture how much paving they would have to ha -.'e for the people, ten to fifteen at a time, backed up in automobiles, whereas the people's cars were neatly parked and out of the way and the other people could walk to the bank without any hazard whatsoever. So she would urge the Council to vote for her substitute amendment, and not to permit new drive -up services. Councilmember Carey said that this was probably one of those philosophical questions. Re supposed that the way to eliminate automobile pollution is to eliminate the automobile, but he was not so impractical as to think that they could do it and that was why he had seconded Councilmember'Henderson's motion. The Council has three choices, they can eliminate drive -!an fanSlcta;4,± entirely, let them go as they are without much restrictioe, or they can do as the Planning Commission recommends with the Nendersoti moficiatiov, namely, at least in the CN neighborhood commercial, put two restrictions on them, ote has to do with the additional use peranits.and use peemit process and two, has to-do with the geographical limitation that. the Henderson motion speaks to. It seemed to him that those two will do the job, that was why he seconded the original motion. They could look at Jack -in -the -Box en El Canino Forth and Jack -in -the -Box an E1 Camino South and he thought they could see what a conditional 'zse permit procedure might do to correct the problems of ,Lack -in - the -Box north, namely, the cars stacked down the street. The drive -up is on the wrong side. It is on the corner on the outside instead of on the inside, which doesn't help the aesthetics, it doesn't help the traffic flow, but he thought the conditional use permit syste,. *ith the geographical restriction would do it and so he was going to oppose he substitute amendment on the floor, and Support the original amendment preceeding it. C.ouncilmemher Witherspoon said that she agreed with Ceuncil.racmLer Carey. The aesthetics that Council/ember Pletcher quoted in the first report were plaely subjective aesthetics ,and that was one reason Palo Alto has an Architectural ILevtew Board.: Her main concern is that the asphalt that is required for parking ver,aus a drive -up window is going to be considerably greater and she didn't think they needed any more asphalt paving in this town. She also pointed out this was a valid customer service for a certain segment of the pc pulation, especially those with very small l children end the elderly, It is much more difficut for them to park and get out of their tar and go to walk up service than it is for some of the more active persons, chat.includee bikers too Who can just park their bikes sad walk in to the services easier than those in a tar. She observed in the drive-in services around, not only in Palo Alto but up and down the El Camino, that there is not often a line. In feet, she found more 1iees in the parking lot behind Weolvertb's with people idling their cars waiting to find a parking apace. So she was really not eoveinced that this wars necessarily a totally detri- a,ental use and under the conditional use pezeit she thought it could be controlled well, as well as with ARB review. Vice Mayor Brenner stid -it void seer apparent that the Council is not ready to go this far at this time4 However, the discussion of the disadvantages of this particular cervix* fry be taken to heart as condition+. us* permits are Hunted. It sera d to her that one of the asrious things that perhaps needed to cep out was the possibility that drivsein services mere allowed to exclude walk -Up patrons and she personally felt that the drive -up picture is not a good one, per'hepa if the substitute a rdent does not succeed, Co ncilsnember henderson'• amendment together with the restrictions the Planning Ce ei.t +ion bat put oar drive -up facilities, together with the inior- msti+n Conncilmember fetcher has brought to the Council will.- lead to an improved situatLe . Council_ er Henderson °aid that his reaesens for putting restrictions on and aalaso that fact that it is ,ueler conditional uses is to protect against some of the real Matisse of the drive-initakeeout services. HO wished that they could •lioiaaete bank drive -up -windows for example, but under drives-np services aware Glace i, chid d cats imams and he was not remedy to *linnets that aa_-_a•_ poseiht. use Most important are the tike.out services, there is a t,reeet abialutage to the $141.01. spi.familiss with aeon chtidr tt *& ha: Iett chat they bad to take this s step at a tI, At . the epsieet the his *tap is se pit taattiattade 06 it sari ra isar volt be barer to 91,06+ Commella robes Councilmember Fazzino stated that most of his comments have already been stated by Councilmembers Carey, Brenner and Henderson. He did have one lingering concern and Councilmember Fletcher raised it in her report and that is the potential and actual discrimination against people who walk up to the windows, or bikers. Perhaps, ne said, he should direct this question to Councilmember Fletcher and to the Cite staff, was there any- thing they could do as a City Council to prevent this kind of discrimination from taking place. He had the impression after reading the report that the problem lies with insurance companies. Councilmember Fletcher replied that one of the latest points that Councilmember Witherspoon made was that the bicycles and pedestrians car_•wQlk 4n tst the place. ve:cy easily. "very otten the main doors are locked and the only service avail- able is the drive -up window, and this pertains both to banks and to eating places. People have told -her they were refused service at Jack -In -The -Sox because they were on a bike and there was no way to get into the facility at the time. She asked that the question be referred to staff. Mayor Sher asked Mr. Knox whether it was poasible to control the given access to the so-called drive -up windows. Mr. Knox replied that the wetter of require- ment may be difficult but certainly since this is a conditional use permit, the staff and ARB can foster and encourage pedestrian eni bicycle access to drive-in services or take-out services. Councilmember Fazzino said that if that was possible to do, then he would like to add that to the motion. He asked if it would be best if he proposed another amendment. Mayor Sher asked if the suggestion was that pedestrians should always have access to these windows? Mr. Knox said that in establishing something as a use that can be conditionally permitted they have to recognize that each instance has to be taken on its own merits and its own situation under the particular cord;tions which apply at the time. They can't hope to inctude in the ordinance all the conditions that will be applied to any particular use. In his view, this has to be a matter of dis- cretion for staff and the ARB. A conditional use permit would always be subject to appeal to the Planning Commission. Mayor Sher asked if it would be appropriate, some other tine after they finished this subject, for the Council to send some sort of commenication to those who administer the conditional use process to express a Council policy or'desire, so at least they know abrat it? Mr. Knox said that he certainly believed a sense motion of that kind would be in order, but he was just indicating that be didn't think it was in order in the ordinance it3elf Mayor Sher said if they really wanted to requite it, he supposed they would have to say "have drive-in windows as a conditional use, provided that pedestrians art always given access." Couueilsember Fazzino said that was the extent to Which he would like to go if poeafble. Mr. Knox said that at this point it would be appropriate to make s comment about the difference betwen drive -up and drive-in. In the initial motion made by Counciismerber l ende.sot, he referred to drive-in services and take-out services r ich are listed in lime 12 o pare W. Be pointed out that in the ordinance as drafted, drive-in includes drive -up and drive -through services, such as car washes, but the reverse is not true, drive -up window, do not include drive - Just Definition Ho. 31 on page 11, establishes what s drive-in service . is Mayor Sher noted 14.. Knox was saying chat they could eliminate drive-in services without eliminating c►r washes. . Inez replied that the Council cr_uld eliminate any element that it wished, be believed the Councilmember Fletcher's material in the packet 'spoke to drive - up windows and in lea initial motion she said she wanted to delete all drive-in services from the commercial zones, she then proceeded to describe the • sterial 61x'; 2/6/78 in the packet and talk about drive -up windows. He thought that they had all seen drive -up windows at banks and drive -up windows at food service esteblish- ments, but if he could just differentiate for them—Jack-ln-The-Pox is a drive - up, MacDonalds and A&W Riot Beer are drive-ins, the customer drives in to the parking lot, stops, gets out, and goes into the establishment to purchase the food; the customer may eat it inside or in the car or take it somewhere else, that is a drive-in or take-out. If the Council wants to exclude drive -up services, the definition can be changed on page 11 to exclude drive -up windows as being part of drive-ins. For exe ple, on lines 8 through 11, on page 11, "Drive-in service. A feature or characteristic of the use involving sales of products or provision of services to occupants in vehicles, including drive-ins too} .°...f..»�_ A..t- --- .��`- - rt .-i .t_ _• _ s s - v hrou!_ . ...s� ..._�-_r--�... �.. ..... ..,+ �.. .... �- ..• s- r..'..v JAM �:: a` 3].V LNV i��-La i.0 i. �.a oohs. services" if they wanted to. He said he was try' :g to point out that the Council could structure the definition if they wished; toe staff would have to work on the precise language, but they could structure the definition to exclude drive -up windows such as are found at banks and drive-ins. Mayor Sher noted that right now the motion before the Council would eliminate Y of Conditional Uses, it eliminates drive-in services and that includes everything. Mr. Knox said that was what he wanted clarified. It seemed to him that while the motion that was made did say exclude drive-in services, all the discussion related to drive -up windows. Mayor Sher asked him if he was suggesting that Councilmember Fletcher really didn't want to exclude drive-in services es a conditional lisp, she wanted to exclude drive -up services. Mr. Knox said that was what he thought. Council - member Fletcher said that was absolutely correct, she was referring purely to drive -up windows services. yAyor Sher said that what she was really doing with the substitute motion, was to say in all the commercial zones, allow drive- in services except drive -up windows as a conditional use. She would allow these other kinds ,f drive-ins, but she didn't want to allow drive -ups? The metio;r on the floor is to delete drive-in services or take-out services associated with permitted uses. Councils*s er Pletcher answered that she wanted to limit it to drive -up service facilities and she looked for staff guidance on exactly how to approach it at this point. If the Council approves Councilmetsber Henderson's motion now, she asked if that would preclude her making a new motion, under definitions, at the next meeting to exclude the drive -up service windows in particular under definitions? Mayor Sher sed it wouldn't preclude that. Of course, if the Council changed the definition, then people will have an opportunity to comment on and eke motions in the substantive section that those definitions : -pear in, if she wanted to just eliminate drive -up from the definition of drive-ins that is +smother war to attack it, bur` abe might find that affects a lot of other sections as well as these definitions, the term :that are defined at the outset can appear in a lot of sections through here, and what she really sued to be dealing with, it seemed to his, was the permitted or conditional uses in coomerctsl zones end she ought to atteck it directly, unless_ the Council can. be ensured that the only placewhere this definition is relevant is right here. Mir. #arox said that the definitions were relevant in a number of other commercial zones and he thought that there were ways to address it if the Council wished, if they wanted to, they could move to eliminate drive -up windows in CN neighborhood commercial districts, they were now looking at and focusing on page 97, line 12, which is in the CR district. Meyer. Sher commented that Councilmember Fletchrr's motion applied to all the commercial districts not .lust this one district. ltr. Inox said that even so, he thought that the Council could move to direct the staff to *Urinate drive -up windows, doing Whatever is necessary to exclude them in the wording of the commercial zone and siso to modify the definition. Then it wouldn't have to watt for tomorrow night and it would be sore stxsigbforward tocfit to beadle that. Mayor Sher said C uncileember Fletcher's motion is not really a substitute then, unless she was going to delete it entirely. and she 6°1 9 7/6/78 said that she wanted to leave in as a conditional use, all drive-in services that are not drive -up services, Councilmember Fletcher said that was rigs:'... Mayer Sher continued by saying that he would appreciate then that Mrs.Fletcher withdraw her substitute motion, and the Council would then go back to Council - member Henderson and deal with that and then maybe she can work on her motion and he would recognize her later to make the motion that she really wanted to make at this point. Councilmember Fletcher agreed. i SUBSTITUTE AMENDMENT WITHDRAWN: Mayor Sher noted that the substitute amendment was withdrawn and Councilmember Headers en's amendment, which Councilmember Carey seconded, to put the space limit to a maxims of two take-out services within 1,000 feet and each not more than 150 feet from one another-, _ ae again before Council. He asked if there were any discussion of the Henderson motion. Councilmember Carey responded that for the sake of expediency, if this motion passes by any kind of majority, it seemed to hies that they have rendered the whole question of drive -up, drive-in, and drive -through, moot and he would suggest that they ought to get on with the rest of the text. If this motion passes by substantial majority the Council has set the policy and he would like to get on with the other aspects of the zoning ordinance. Councilmember Witherspoon asked Councileemher Henderson, noting that they were talking about page 97, CN zone, if he would include it also in the CC zone on page 111. It is also conditional use under the aev i.ce commercial on page 111, she thought those were the only two where this is mentioned. Coencilmember Henderson said that he hed the see note on page 111. Council - member Henderson and Councilmember Carey agreed to include that in this motion as well, Mayor Sher said that the motion then would apply wherever it appears in the commercial zones, to add these lir;itatiors, wherever the drive-in services and take-out services appear as a conditional use this motion will apply. He then called for the vote. AMENDMENT PASSED: The amendment was adopted unanimously. AMENDMENT: Cvuncilran ben Henderson that on page 101, 107,-108, 115 it applicable PC districts be included moved, seconded by Councilmember Fletcher, should read 011 residential zones are in site regulations. Mayor Sher asked if the Council had actually taken this action When they were talking about manhiecturing last mein. iir. Knox replied that they had applied it to the wsnufaaactcrirsg zones that they were talking about then, Mayor Sher noted that they needed a motion then for the con ercieai. Cohacilaember Carey noted that this question came up last meek and the question vas raised as to the Planning Commission's rationale for not having included other residential zones in this b He asked if anyone had bid the opportueity to look back into the Planning Commtasion deliberations to determine Whether or not that was deliberately left out. - Mrs . Steinberg replied that she bad looked back over the minutes and she didn't believe it was deliberately Left out. First of all the Planning Commission included the R -I zones and then tb.y euloarged it to the other residential zones. The amendment passed on s unanimous vote. Co:n ciImembsr Penderscte referring to page 105, line 26, said be would bile to exclude sbohping centers from this requirement that outdoor displays not occupy more than 1,000 square feet. 6 2 0 2/6/78 Mayor Sher didn't think they needed the precise wording. He asked Council - member Henderson if he wished to defer to Councilmember Carey for suggested wordng. Councilmember Henderson said that the intent was to exclude shop- ping centers from the definition. Councilmember Carey said that he had talked to Mr. Knox about this during the break, and what he was going to Suggest was that the Council increase the 1,000 to 2,000 sq. ft., and allow further increase uubject to a conditional use permit. 1dAv1±r gher pointed _ that _ � ,...r......V ...::. �.:at 4416 uitrere:,c from spat CouncilmEaber Henderson was saying, he applied it to shopping centers and Councilmember Carey applied it eenerall.y and increased how much could be in outdoor sales and storage. Councilmember Carey agreed that his suggestion was slightly different. He thought that he would get out what he wanted to do and that was to increase the minims because 1,000 feet is awfully small. That outdoor space counts for parking and they had to have parking, but on anything in excess of that which would include shopping centers: require a use permit Councilmember Henderson said that he community commercial district, 1,000 know the impact. He did know what a h d no trouble excluding that at the found it hard to judge in the general versus 2,000 sq, ft. He just didn't shopping center looks like. So he moment, AMENDMENT: Councilmember Henderson roved, seconded by Fletcher, to incorporate words in paragraph K, page 105, line 26, to exclude shopping centers from the 92,9 square meters, 1,000 squsre feet limitations. Mr. Knox advised that shopping centers were defined on page 22, line 23 and they are defined es having a million square feet of floor area and not less than fifty acres of land, so that limits shopping centers t.i Stanford, it would not include Town and Country Village. Vice Mayor Brenner said that the subject of the definition was exactly what her light was on for, she was not about to make en amendment that is tailored to one particular shopping center. The 50 acres, the 1 million quare feet, would exclude Town and Ccuntry and what other shopping centers she asked. In short, if they were going to snake an allowance that allows for art ashcws and outdoor sales, plants, and that kind of thing, on occasion, she felt that it should relate to all shopping centers; as Mr. Bend?rson said, she knew what shopping centers looked like, but when she read the definition they don't sound like what they look like, end she would like to have that clarified before allowing en exception for just cne shopping swear. Mayor Sher thought that it vas clear, that it would only apply to Stanford because of the definition in terms of floor space. Vice Mayor Brenner said that this would then have to discriminate against Town and Country which she thought in the minds of the moat of them qualifies at a shopping center. Councilmember Henderson commented that one or more of the Council might vent to redefine whopping centers tomorro,r night, at t e moment bm was emending Page 105, but he would intend to reduce the square footeg setquirement hers to include Town and Country. Mayor Sher noted that vas another way to approach it obviously, and 'dsat it appears Councilmember Hendsrson's intent is, id to modify the definition of shopping centers to include sore than one. Vice Mayor Bremner amid with that understanding that it will be modified, she would support the ;lion.. Mayor Sher reminded her that it old have to be voted on. Vice Mayor Brenner said she won14 not suppbrt it . 6 2 1 2/6/7 Mayor Shei said that they knew they would run into this if they tried to spin off the definitions from the substantive sections. He asked Mr. Knox if he hel a way out, did he think they .should teal with the definition of "shopping center" tonight. Mr. Knox thought that they needed to take a look et the definition of shopping center, because it is in there for a reason that he thought related to the parking facilities and it relates on page 175, item 28, where the square feet of parking for shopping centers is spelled out. Now, this recognizes that Stanford gains a certain economy of parking space- because of the size of the Center, which is not gained in a smaller shopping center like Edgewood,Qtarleston, Ainia Plaza; -or; - even 'own and Country village, so if they tool around with the definition of phopping center, later they are going to affect the parking eebulatieee, too. He thought that maybe it would be clearer and simpler to deal with outdoor storage en a square foot basis. Mayor Sher Said that what Mr. Knox was saying was that Couneilmember Henderson's exception should not be in terms of shopping centers, but rather an exception should be for a group of commercial establishments having a gross floor area of not less than whatever they vent that would include those kinds of "shop- ping centers" that they have in mind. He noted that it was always a problem to start monkeying around with the definitions which win occur through the zoning ordinance and if the definition is changed for one purpose, they are going to find that they have changed it for other purposes es well. He thought Mr, Knox was suggesting that they ought to deal directly with the problem in the section that they were concerned about. He asked Counci;ember Henderson if he wanted to re -phrase his motion. While Cduncilmember Henderson was thinking about that, Mayor Sher called upon Counciletnber Witherspoon. Councilmember Witherspoon noted that a few months ago Council passed an ordinance allowing for the downtown area to have outdoor sales and art shows and things on the sidewalks. She asked if this kind of permit process would be alloueble any places other then downtown, because that might solve the problem. Mr. Knox replied that the discoasion related to downtown had to do with the use of the public right of way and it reauiied a special permit to close off the street or the eidewalka. He didn't think it was relevant to the shopping center or the private property question, tonight they were talking about the rezoning ordinance which has to be handled a different way entirely. He said that the downtownx areas were more likely to use streets or sidewalks which require a permit that ie not part of the zoning ordinance provisions, whereas in the zoning ordinance they were trying to deal with the kind of farmer's market that was described for Stanford or the outdoor sates that are likely to occur et any of the shopping -centers. Couxerile be Witherspoon stated that her concern with the conditional use permit was that if they were having just incidental sales or ones that occur infrequently, it is a clumsy process to have to go through. tno.: agreed and ea .d that staff has indicated that they dislike having msora conditional use permits this: they have to deal with because that mama that they fall behind in ter work _.mi have to regn est more staff. But Connell slid have precedent, at least in this draft text for alloying some things as permitted uses up to s certain. size and then. recognising that over s certain size that, may become problems and need to be treated with:A cdiLtioita;l use permit. Ve didn't know nbether 2,000 square feet was the right number or' 2, 500 or even 5,000 was, but be did think that it was valid to - rscoe nine that at the lowest certain number which can't yet be defined, then outdoor sales are not problem and can be permitted, -but above a certain naWber they rat to look it it and issue a conditionel use permit. Couecilmember Vi.tharspooe tonight ,Chat perbspre the square Zootsge, which would be perhaps 1,000 square feet in Sanford eight be totally inappropriate for a *wall shopping center like Charleston„ therefore, maybe it should be a percentageof t s sales sad display area rather than a *quer, footage. 822 216/78 Mayor Sher remarked that they were really talking about two different things here; they were talking about how such would be permitted in terms of square feet for these displays, that'is one thing, and Councilmember Henderson is talking &bout exempting from the whole restriction certain shopping centers of a certain size, and that is what is before them. He thought that they had better come back to that and see whether Mr. Henderson wants to pursue it. - Aoncilree.ber Henderson suggested that they go back to the square footage. As he understood it, as en example, there is currently nee organization, the Stanford Shopping Center, occupying about 2,000square feet of outside display area, ao if the Council made 2,000 the figure here that would cover that, but then what about those additional times that there are displays or art shows of somebody else doing something outdoors. At a place like Stanford Shopping Center they would have to come in everywhere for a conditional permit. He was trying to avoid having to do that every Saturday or whenever it is. So he has some difficulty with Councilmember Carey's suggestion of 2,000 square feet, otherwise he thought that was good, but it didn't item to him that was going to work from that one example. Mayor Sher said he thought that what Councilmember Henderson wanted to do in this case was sake a general exception for a group of commercialestablish-- ments, leaving a blank for total gross acreage, and then filling in the blank to satisfy s-rhich groups he wanted to exclude. If he wanted to exclude ehopping centers of a certain size, how could the Council accomplish Councilmember Henderson's purpose, Mr. Knox said first, he wanted to paint out that outdoor sales and storage are accommodated in all three of the commercial zones, and they are accom.-nodared differently. in the CN neighborhood zone on Page 99 at the top of the pages 500 square feet is allowed. The Council has been looking at the CC - community commercial zones - on Page 105 which allows 1,000 square feet. The third place that outdoor sales and storage are accommodated is in the CS zone on Page 112, were outdoor sales is limited to an area equal to Whatever is enclosed by the building on the see site, but they could expand beyond that amount with a conditional use permit. Sc, they go from a very small amount of apace, 500 square feet in the neighborhood zones, to 1,000 square feet in the -CC zones to a realty unlimited number with a conditional use permit Jo the CS zone. His recommendation wee that they leave the CH and CS zones - alone --he - Just pointed that out for comparison. Mayor Sher said that he wasn't going to do ranythin, with those zones;. he was worried about the CC zones where there a ire shopp2ii~g centers end he want -Jo exclude shopping eeetera of & certain size from this limitation on the outdoor sales area. He ateked Mr. Knox if he had a suggestions ebaut what the mitt should be so that it would :over shopping centers of the Town and Country Village type, or io that something that they -needed to pass for the time being. Mt. Xnox replied that the 2,000 square feet based on the outdoor sales space of Victoria G4trdens at Stanford Shopping Center is really not a very large space. He vx1d have no tro ble with 2,500.squere feet. Mayor Sher said that Mr. Knox was back to how much v ltd be permitted in any of these shopping centers; Compel/posher Undersign has been trying to exclude etbcpping centers of a - certain 'Lee from any litaitatioos. So they keep mixing up these two thingse-Cguncilmember Heneersoe do sn't want to give the more oetdeor space, he rants to exclude from this 1imitatios shopping teeters of s certain size. Mr. Inge said Chet in that ease, they had to redefine shopping centers, because the only may they could not rvtdefisse shopping Motor! is to --go" with the square footage limitation and soy that above a certain number of 623 2/6/78 square feet they have to get a use permit. Mayor Sher said that in order to move this along, what they have to do, with Councilmember Henderson's permission, is temporarily pass this --unless Councilmember Henderson could suggest the language now. Councilmember Henderson said that first of all, he was not sure how many of the - areas itvoZved are community• commercial' zones and how many are service and neighborhood commercial zones. For example, does Town and Country Village fall under community commercial? Mr. Knox said that was a very good point. There will be pretty mech a one to one relationship between community comeneeeiel as -__h_ _r the Comprehensive Plan and community commercial as they are talking about within the zone definition. The areas that are show community commercial in the Comprehensive Plan are Stanford, Downtown Palo Alto, Town and Country Village, California Avenue, and the piece of Mayfield Mali that is in Palo Alto --that is all. Mayor Sher noted that two of those were under one ownership (Stanford Shopping Center and Town and Country Village) and the others ore large areas eD 1ntown P4-,0 Alto, California Avenue). Mr. Knox said that the neighborhood shopping centers are excluded because they are not under community commercial. Councilmember Henderson said that he was willing to leave the motion as is at this point, for the purpose o; moving along; but he suggested that they hear comments --if someone wants to amend the motion, fine. Mayor Sher said that the motion was to exclude shopping centers from K on Page 105 under community; commercial zones. He asked who wanted to raid: about that motion. Councilmember Carey said chat he was going to sunoort the motion; and if it pasted, he vas going to move to amend K to allow conditional use permits exceeding a certain square footage. If that pisses, they will have accomplished two things: those commercial facilities in the CC area•-Dovntow l, Town and Country, Hayfield, Stanford --„rill be subjece to the use permit proceaa, except for Stanford Which will he automatically excluded. He thought that made sense. With respect to Stanford and the notion on the floor, a regional shopping center is a unique animal: It is not like nto n; it is not like Town and Country; it is almost like a city within itself, governed by the tenants within that area. • - Whether they have 2,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 feet of oitdcor sales is pretty meal going to be determined by those tenancies there and as to whether or not it is going to be good for them and whether or not it viii detract from parking. So he was willing to s eke the overall exc p- tion, a riich is the motion on the floor for the one million square feet or over, Which obviously applies to Stanford and no one else; Then he would like to see a conditional use permit process applied to the CC areas where the Council is really not sure how much ought to be allowed without taking a look at ft. se w*. convinced, with respect to a regional center, that he didn't want to look at it. When it carne Co Tows a' Wintry or something smaller, s: be there should be come governmentel review, so that vas where he was. Councilmember Clay wondered Whet would happen if the Council struck th. numbers from K. the 1,000 square feet. Mayorr Sheri replied that then there wouldn't - be spy Uniten how much autdoot sales spore that could be used in any of these zones. Couccilmember Cloy noted that that r didn't appear to be re Late:! to anything. llsyor Sher replied that it does says for example, that if "at commercial establishment in the downtown anrea wrests to have outdoor solos *piece, 62 4 2/6/71 they can have it, but not more than 1,000 aquare feet." If that is taken out, then it could be as big as their property would permit. So it does have a purpose: it limits the amount. The amendment would in effect exclude Stanford Shopping Center from this limitetion. Councilmember Clay stated that he didn't see how that could really happen in that a stogie could not use the City sidewalk. Mayor Sher pointed out the store coteld use the setback or entranceway or it could build a lot with a big outdoor sales area if there wasn't a limi.z, so it did hove some impact. Councilmember Clay repeated that the number was just not related to anything that makes any sense to anybody. Mayor Sher said that it related, he supposed, to the Woolworth display area for plants, the Seaxs area for outdoors; he was just giving examples. Anyway, there vas a Motion on the floor. He thought Councilmember Clay was saying that maybe they should get rid of the .sole thi: g, but that le not what the motion on the flora' is. The motion on the floor is to exclude the shopping center. AO would like to vote on this. He had one question, though, for qtr. Booth. Since this motion is related only to Stanford Shopping Center, could he vote on it or sh yuld he exclude himself? Re said be didn't .;,are what advice Mr. Booth gave. 13x. Booth replied that he didn't think the motions would have a material financial effect on anyone. Mayor Sher remarked that meant he was free to vote on it. AMENDMENT PASSED: The amendment passed on a 8-1 vote, Councilmember Brenner voting "not:. AMENDMENT: Councilmember Henderson moved, seconded by Pletcher, that on Psge ,11, Line 3, after "automotive services," a comma be placed and the words "at a distance of 500 feet or greater from a residential area" be added. Councilmember Henderson noted that sutc otive services was a permitted use, but there wan a limitation as to how cicee to a residential erne an automotive service could be. Councilmember Eyerly wondered whether that would be more appropl•iadely dealt with if that were put under site and design revive, as be noticed that *hen be turned back to 18.82 where it describes that under specific purposes. it says "the site and design review coasbisaiug district- is intended to provide a process for review and approval of development in e1 viroo erntall; -£pd ecologically sensitive dress." *e was tbinkinc.: that if they put in 500 feet, they would be running into s little nit of s; problem io scale areas, where if it ware put this other way, if there vas s review on it, that it would tot be denied. M.arybe 500 feet is too stringent. Mayer Sher asked if it were a permitted use, waeb3 any of those ever made subject to site rand design review. He pointed out that 034.one Oriencilsoesiber Ey rly was referring to was in the conditional use and relates to automobile eetswtce `stations. Mr. Ham said that in the present ordinance, automobile service stations are permitted uses; and as such, they ere subject to site and desire review. He personally thought that 500 feet'ls going to mean that there won't be any locations or *eery few locations in the CS cones Whirl. .will allow automotive services. The alternatives have already boat mentioned. One is to put automotive services as a coodittonal use rather than as a permitted use; the other is to leave it in ties place 625 2/6/18 where It is, but give it site and design review. Re thought that having • conditional use permit proceee is more effective in terms of being able to set conditions because site and design review does not really allow setting of conditions other than those that relate to site and design. In that vein, he thought that while this was nct in the Motion, Line 17 on Page 111 jumps out as an example of where they were applying both things, requiring automobile service stations to conditional use and subjecting it to site and design review so he thought the site and design review was redundant. Mayor Sher noted that what Mr. Knox was suggesting was to remove auto- wotive services from permitted use and make it s conditionsl use and that he was also saying that subjecting it to site end design review under the conditional use is redundant and could be deleted. Re said that there were * lot of people Who wanted to talk to Councilmember Henderson's motion, and unless be wanted to make a change in it, he was not going to call on him. Councilaember Henderson said that in looking at that distsoce, be would be grilling to change that 500 to 300 feet. But he wanted to have e restriction on automotive eervices being some distance sway from resi.- dent€al areas --it is not e good use to have really close to residential areas. AMENDMENT CANED: The change to Councilmember Fletcher, who Couneilmember Eyerly asked lfr . idea of how many areas under CS within 300 feet'. in distance to 300 feet was agreeable seconded the motion, Knox if he could give the Council some zoning vbuld .allow automotive services Councilmember Carey said that the problem vii.h the aTeLdment on the floor is that if they take the proposed setback and add any kind of building end then look at the lot depths, they were going to be within 300 feet on every lot that is service commercial, HL thought they could think of it es side to side, that may be one thing, but they wee, going to get caught on the back end it will eliminate automotive services in Palo Alto. There are a couple of spots on the lend use sap where maybe they can get them in. There is certainly nothing between Embsrcadeteo and Page Mill end from Page Mill down to Charleston. As he sav it, there may a some places on the cast side of Li Camino right efter they pass Page Mill and then notbieg agaie until Charleston. In fact, nct even there. So that was the problem with the motion. It is the front to back thatleas going to catch them. He thought if it passes, they were going to eliminete arutomotive services. So he ,held to vote against the notion. ift. Anon said that be would jolt coefire whet Councilaae ber Carey said. The service areas are between Bolidaey Ito and the Town end country Villsee and in the areas known as tbe old automobile row -south of downtown. Those eoul4 still have s;*aee effective automobile services within ttbeae, but a large pert of tbe south of downtown areas would not be 300 feet from residential acres and would be wiped out as e potential aeutoaotive service *res. All tine .areas would be affected by the distance from the beck lot line; and there would be one ere* east of Al Camino in the Lambert area generally that is service coaroeer- ciel that would be able to rotate sutoeso* fir services; there would be an a area fres Charleston to south City limit*, �usee„,therewould be en area eau 1mbercedero out by Porsche Audi that would remain viable for auto- motive orvices. 1%e other areas old be no looser possible for auto- aarot've eervicet if the 300 foot ';i itatioo passes. W$STUUZA t unalm nber Ilyerly moved a substitute motion, that on Page 111, Lase 3, Automotive Services, be subject to site and design review in accord with the paw i s loo in ter 18.82. 6Z6 2/6/76 Councilmember Eyerly sdid that he thought it should be there and not under conditional uses. Councilmember Witherspoon said that her concern with the substitute amendment was that didn't Mr. Knox just tell Council that under site and design review, they could not prohibit a use, they could only control the site and design of it; in other words, they could lay some mitigating factors on the use if it is in an area they feel is inappropriate to a residential zone, but they can't prohibit it. #r. Knox said that was correct, and if they have it under conditional use, they can't deny the conditional use permit. Councilmember Witherspoon said that she was not saying that she vented to forbid automotive-aervices, and that was why she originally had her light on. There were very. fern lots that had enough leeway for the 300 foot limitation to be in effect. She thought they should aak Council - member Senderson what be hoped to accomplish. Was it to limit the number in a block or to limit the number in a given district along El Camino or perhaps scything else? )1yor Sher said the motion on the floor, is Councilmember Eyerly'a substitute. Vice Mayor Brenner said that first of all a conditional use permit, es she understood it, is appealable and the problem as she raw it that was being discussed is trying to protect residential areas from automotive services. Site and design can make it look lovely from El Cassino, but it doesn't provide the residents with any voice in the process 1f the shop is objectionable --from the back side, She would like to see it put simply under conditional use permit where the City's zoning administrator has some control, has a chance to give advice and a chance to simply count before an automotive service has spent a lot of money on something that is too close to a certain use and won't do. W. Knox said he would suggest they not try to bring the D site and design some into the City, as that will result in the MB and the Planning Commission duplicating themselves again. Cotncilrwember Eyerly caked him if he bad a description of #at that district is or whet mite and design revi+ev `+ sns, so that t,`y under- stood what it means. M r . Knox has expleine4 it but he d idn'ti'see anything to subatauZiste his statements. Mayor Sher said that be thought the introductory statements were kind of objective' or goals. They were not realty the operative parts of the chapter*, and they had to look et the subsequent sectiona in Chapter 18.82 to sae what site and design review means, and what action can be taken by the Commission artAI so earth. Councilmember Eyerly said that be''' ldh't understate that because on Page 111 under conditional saes, they use the same thing that he vas askin for on Line 17. M- asking lid said that line 17 was e e exception which be, as a staff amber, disliked but mbiCh the Commission voted on end included in the ordinate*. That wee the one thing that stuck ut like a sore thumb in this draft with rein ct to that Chapter 18.62. Councilmember Clay said that be agreed with Councilnember grimly that it +opera-oftoennd design would give the control they would not ever placement of the building on the lot, ha, it looks, sad that *sort of drixtit. With respect to the definitions, be thought that they were or et least Widths potential being operative and therefore ought to be looked et that way anti at least heave *at language Whiff'. bsaa little beating to the definition take* :out. le rimed the question last week within pct to neighherbood cci rciel. wee Inclined to support the motion. i.2 7 20(7$ Mayo:' Sher thought they should vote on the Eyerly substitute motion to add the site and design review language to automotive service° in the CS zone under paragraph S on Page 111. SUBSTITUTE AMENDMENT FAILED:^ The substitute amendment failed on the following vote: AYES: Carey, Clay, Eyerly, Witherspoon NOES: Brenner, Fazzino, Fletcher, Henderson, Sher )taayee She? said that he would come back to Councilmember Henderson because his original motion was now oh the floor. SUBSTITUTE AMENDMENT: Councilmember Henderson moved a substitute amendment, seconded by Fazzino, that automotive services be deleted from permitted uses and placed under conditional asses, OP Mayor Sher asked if this could not be added to "B" automobile services. of 'did Councilmember Henderson want it separete7 Councilmember Henderson said he wrsnted it separate. Mayor Sher asked Councilmember Henderson if he also wanted it subject to design review language. Councilmember Henderson thought the conditional use permit was enough. Mayor Sher noted that would be separately listed and the paragraphs renumbered accordingly. AMENOXE ? PASSED: The substitute amendment passed unanimously. AMENDMENT: Councilmember Henderson moved, seconded by Counci`member Fazzino, that under all the cos rcii1 zones, there be added n nuisance clause the same es those appearing on Pages 127 and 133, under manu- facturing zones. AMENDMENT PASSED: The amendment pasaed unanimously. AMENDMENT: Councilmember Carey moved, seconded by Councilmember Fazzino, that on Page 105, Section it, Line 29, outdoor sales, the 1,000 square feet be increased to 7,000 cquare feet and that anything in excess of 2,000 square feet be subject to a conditional use permit. Mayor Sher noted this had been discussed at some length. He asked if the staff wished to comment on this. He noted that the meters would have to be changed as well. There was no staff or. Planning Commission comment, He celled for the vote. Ate` PASSED: The aassendrantpassed on the following vote: AYES: Carey, Clay. lyerly, ,Fazzino, Fletcher, Henderson, Witherspoon NOES: Brenner, Sher Mayor Sher said that Mr. Zisratusn advised diet setbacks in the C zone be discussed tonight. AMIMMENT: Counolleamber Corey rimed, seconded by Nor Sher, that in the C -S sore, warehousing be added as a conditional use. mamma PASSW: The notion pesseey on the following vote: A a Ortsamort Care, Orly,, Passino, Fletcher, Henderson, Sher, Witherspoon l : Clair 628 2/6/76 AMENDMENT: Councilmember Carey moved, seconded by Councilmember Eyerly, that excel°t for residential zones, that would pick up commercial and industrial, that in the lot area or building area calculations they not exclude water course and drainage easements. Councilmember Carey said that as he understood it, that appeared in both the commertial and industrial zones. Mr. Knox thought that it was in the section of the ordinance under special provisions. Council - member Carey said that it certainly affects the commercial zones. Mr. Zimmerman said that it was also in the definition section under Lot area on page 16, line 25. Mayor Sher suggested they take this up tomorrow night. Mr. Knox said the main section of water courses and channels is on Page 198, Lines 10 through 16, under special provisions and exceptions. AMENDMENT WLflWRAWW: Councilmember Carey withdrew his motion. Councilmember Carey started tha.z in the C -N Neighborhood Commercial zone, the recommendation provides for 2g i 1iait . Presently, as be understood it all commercial zones have a 50' height limit, so they were reducing by half the potential height. He had no argument with that with respect to neighborhood cower :ial uses nor did he have any argument with the proposed limitations on uses; he thought they were fine and accomplish thr intent. But, since all commercial zones allow residential use as well, one of the objectives of the Comprehensive Plan was to get a mix of uses if possible on commercial properties, putting commercial and residential, specifically apartment units over the stores, and all the attendant benefits that section mix would have, namely reduction on dependency of use of the auto bile, in fact even reduce the dependency on the use of the bicycle because they coi.1d just walk to the store. This seemed to him to be a worthwhile objective and one they aught to try end obtain. AMYND NT Councilmember Corey moved that, seconded by Councilmember Clay, thst in the CN zone, the height lititaticn of 25' be increased to 35' providing that the last or uppermost floor of the -improvement to residential in use,. Mayor Sher said that in other words, the motion wls to retain the 25' for purely commercial use, but in the event the second floor was resi- dential these it could go as high as 35'. Councilmember Carey replied thet if one floor were residential, then they would get on additional ten feet in height, but only for residen- tial purposes. Mrs. Steinberg remarked that the Piesuaiug Commission didn't discuss this. Cou cilemmber Henderson asked if the 25' didn't apply ' to the district period, and if no then weren't multi -families being restricted to 25'. Re noted that under permitted uses, they could have entirely multi- faadly use so veren'C .`may restricted to 25' still udder this motion because the 25' applies to the district, period. 1 would think thst they would need both the addition of that floor above commercial, but also they should allow any development that is' totally residential to be 35'. Cooncilnember Carey pointed out Cat was_ in tag ;aotto ; if there is one floor residential, they they qualify for the 35' eed they can make the balance residential or commercial, so it can ell residential up to 35', or commercial at 25', or commercial and residaawtial et 33'. MOMENT PM : The motion passed unanimous ly . 6 2 9 2/6/7$ Councilmember Carey said that as he read the text, the setbacks remain the same, except for CN. Mr. Knox replied that the CN setbacks are patterned after the C-1 zone, but the C-1 zone hasn't been used in Frio Alto except for one property. So What the O zone does on page 197, line 27, is establish a 20' front yard. Most of the properties that will have the CN zone applied to them are now C2 and have zero backyards. Councilmember Carey asked about other proposed commercial zones. Mr. Knox replied that they have no setbacks. Councilmember Carey said that what bothered him about the setback, where it does apply, is that, as he read this,, that 20' font setback cannot he 'lapel for parking ----- - -- - -- - and does not have to be landscaped with the exception of the first five feet. Mr. Knox stated that the five feet would apply where parking is provided; he was not sure that it applied otherwise in setbacks. Councilmember Carey remarked that theoretically, they wouldn't need to have any land- scaping on that site, Mr. Knox thought that as a practical matter, it would have to be paved and landscaped in some way that was satis- factory to the ARB. There are general landscaping provisions required on the site in the general section. He looked earlier for the section that would prohibit parking in setbacks and he didn't find it. The only thing he could find was on Page 200, beginning on Page 199, where in special provisions it talks about permitted uses and required yards and the only permitted uses that are allowed in required yards are landscaping, pedestrian walkways, driveways, outdoor recreation, terraces and so on, fences, screening and enclosures, So by process of elimina- tion, parking is not allowed under required yards. Councilmerber G-'rey said that two things bothered him about the setback: 1) While they presently have no setback on El Camino, and he would agree that sore is certainly desirable from an aesthetic standpoint, they heve some lots without a great deal of depth; and if one has a fairly substantial front yard setback end then a backyard setback and on site parking, it doesn't leave a wiioie lot for the building or the building is going to start looking funny. 2) By the -same token, if they don't require the setback:: to be landscaped, namely if they put a driveway in there, then that 20' setback is not really accomplish- ing the purpose for Which he thought it was intended. AMENDMENT: Ccuncilmeerber Carey moved, seconded by Councilmember W ,ther- spoon, that the front yard setback in c ercia.i zones be reduced to 10 feet and that the entire ten feet be in landscaping. Vice Mayor Brenner said that she had a problem with this. First of all, ,ere the lot is not deep enoug , it is time for a variance and probably e variance would be granted; 30 that particular argument did not sway COrrect ed her. Now on the setback, as she recatl'd, it was designed to provide see page neighborly good frontage, particularly for E1 Camino. She felt that 825 this uis,.a good design element and aaorth+ bile; she would prefer to deal with those vet" shallow iota by enception rather than by making a basic change in the rube. She thought the Planning Commission had rem+lly worked this over peetty yell, and she was reluctant to start fooling With the number of feet they figured for certain things. She thought they had given it a lot of thought and applied a lot of logic to it. She was also confident the variance procedure had a reason for being, and this ears one of the logical places. Councilmember Witherspoon noted that if they turned the page, it said the maximum site coverage shall be 50, so that 30% of the site mill be more or less open space, but her main concern here was the provision that the minism street -aide yards shalt be 20' too. She asked 14r. Knox if that meant ' if someo—.+e was can -a cormir'-lct, they had to have 20' oo the side street sad 20' on the front. Mr. Knox replied that was correct. 6 3 0 2/6/78 Councilmember Witherspoon asked Councilmember Carey if he were leaving the 20' side yard in, but talking about only the ten feet in the front on the main street. Mayor Sher said that the motion speaks to the front yard at this point. Councilmember Witherspoon said that her third concern arrected vas that in looking at most of the areas that are on El Camino, the depth see page of the neighborhood commercial lot is going to be residential in almost 825 every case and the place that she would prefer to see some kind of setback would be the rear yard; she didn't think that they had to protect El Cassino traffic from the effects of the neighborhood commercial but fe might be nice to require some landscaping in the back. Corrected see page 825 AMENDMENT PASSED: The amendment passed on s 5-4 vote. AYES: Carey, Clay, Eyerly, Pazzino, Witherspoon NOES: Fletcher, Henderson, Brenner, Sher Councilmember Carey said that he hadn't noticed that there was no back yard setback. He agreed that in some places that vas more important than the front yard. But he would paaa for now. Councilmember Clay asked if they could set a time limit for this meeting. Mayor Sher said it was his intent to quit at midnight. At 12:00 midnight. he would entertain a motion to adjourn and see how the Council felt about it. Councilmember Pazzino said he w.suld ba very brief. He has only one item left from his original eleven. That had to do with the an -1:,a'. care facilities. AMENDMENT: Councilmember 1'azzino reeved seconded by Councilmember Witherspoon that animal care in the CN zone be s permitted rather than a conditional use excluding boarding kennels. Councilmember Henderson, said that he needed some clarification as to the existing facility. He asked What happened now under conditional use for an existing facility. Mx. Knox stated that an existing f was not required tip eos+:e in' and get a conditional use permit.. CcuanctI er' Henderson stated that any animal care facility not existing In CN Neighbor- hood c Commercial would be able to stay there because it is a conditional use. Mr. Knox said that he would have to check with Noce Booth but be believed that the use that is permitted as a conditions' use and which is existing and does not have a use permit is not considered non con- formingsolely by virtue of its riot having such a permit, Mr, Booth confirmed that vas correct. Mayor Sher stated that meant that an existing animal care facility, eeeluving a boarding kennel facility in the CN note, vo ld 7not have to come in and apply for a conditional use permit, and it would be treated as conforming and any new proposed operations erect d 'amore to go through the conditional use permit process. 1f this motion passes, it would be- come a permitted uae and any new operation would .not have to go through that proseas. Mr. Keane said Chet was correct tat he wanted an opportunity tomorrow to check this carefully because there may be some section that is vtitten in conditional use section which he has forgotten for this moment end he wanted -to double Check it before tomorrow night's meeting. Councilmember Henderson said that in response to some future d nee, he venial retheer, leave that eas conditional nee because the present oases were okay end he didn't think he would want to okay new animal care 6 3 1 2/6/78 without them going through the conditional use process, he didn't want that to be a permitted use, so he would pppose moving it from conditional to permitted. He did want to protect the ones that were there now and seem(ngly they were protected. Councilmember Faezino replied that ho didn't think they were talking about a very intensive use here, particularly when they were excluding boarding and kennels and he thought that it was quite compatible with the intent of the commercial neighborhood area to have animal care. fie thought that they were excluding boarding kennels and that was the key to him so he would urge -that it be put in the permitted use. Councilmember Fletcher stated thct the fact that ties.: facilities might b e adjoining residential areas and the fact that dogs do bark and cats do howl even if they are not boarding but are there for a certain period of time to recover from surgery or whatever, she thought the title permit would allow for that type of examination, to make certain that it doee not interfere with the adjoining residential property. So she would prefer to keep it conditional. Councilmember Fazzino said in hds opinion any potential problem, such as the one Councilmember Fletcher raised, would be handled by the nuisance ordinance. AMENDMENT PASSED: The amendment passed on a 5.4 vote. AYES: Eyerly, Carey, Clay, Fazzino, Witherspoon NOS: Fletcher, Henderson, ?Brenner, Sher Councilmember Witherspoon said that fortunately most of the things she wished to raire had been taken up all ready. But following on 'hat just passed, she thought that a very appropriate place for animal care facilities as a permitted usa , even more appropriate than the CN zone, would be the CC zoie and therefore she would make a motion on that. AMENDMENT: Councilmember Witherspoon moved, seconded by Clay, that on page 103, Animal Csre Facilities, excluding boarding and kennels, be allowed es a permitted use i; the CC zone. Vice Mayor Brenner asked if animal care included veterinary services. So what they were laying then was that veterinary service could come into a CC, Community Commercial District, without. the protection of the conditional use permit. She asked Councilmember Witherspoon if she thought that the conditional use permit process was •uch a chore. Council - member Witherspoon replied affirmatively. She suggested that Vice Mayor Brenner look at the list of kinds of things, including medical facilities for humans that are allowed in as a permitted use in the CC zone. AMEN PASS"ZD: The amendment passed 6-3. AYES: Clay, Carey, 1yerly, Fezzino, Fletcher, Witherspoon NOES: Henderson, Brenner, Sher Councilmember Witherspoon had t question for staff. Referring to Page 96, she believed than one Of the speakara said that entertainmentfacilities was a permitted use in the CN row a She saw no reference to entertain - went esreblieh Beata in the CN ion* either as a permitted or conditional use.e Mk. Race ash6 her if she was talking about rhet they called co renal recreation. If so, that was not included in the (N zone. Mayor Sher -said that be made a note that the member - of the public mho spoke to that woes talking about the CS mope on l'age 111, and that person suggested that the commercial recreation use be deleted as conditioaal 6 3 2 2/6/78 Corrected see page 825 use in that zone. Councilmember Witherspoon asked if that weren't the only zone that was allowed in the City. Mr. Knox replied that it «as a conditional use in the CC. Councilmember Witherspoon was satisfied. AMENDR4EN'x: Councilmember Witherspoon moved, seconded by Councilmember Fazzino, on Page 97, Section E, to require minimum rear yard of 5' all landscaped. Councilmember Carey asked if there weren't requirements for walls in some of the other ■eat{one. Mr. Knox said that there wat a requirement - adjacent to residential areas. Mr. Zimmerman said that as an example on Page 101 beginning on Line 10 there is a provision there saying the neighborhood commerical where it is adjoining or abuts the residential. Councilmember Witherspoon asked if an interior yard could be interpreted to mean a rear yard. Mr. Zimmerman responded that wag correct. Mr. Knox elaborated on that by saying that an'irtefior yatd''',s any yard that is note street yard, so if t!e Council sets bhp a rear yard, it will be under that definition. Councilmember Witherspoon said that satisfied her requirements. She wouiJ withdraw her motion because ten feet is even better as far as she was concerned. Councilmember Fazzino agreed to the withdrawal of the motion. AMENDMENT WI RAW : Councilmember Witherspoon withdrew the amendment. Mayor Sher pointed out that if it didn't abut a is no setback requirement, if it does abut then Councilmember Witherspoon stated that if it were zo e, she would not be so concerned. Mayor Sher reference would not apply to all cases, it would it abutted a residential zone. residential zone then there there is this provision. abutting another commercial stated that the 'rose only apply to those where Co+, ncf lmember Witherspoon commented that they had rigorously excluded boarding and kennels from everywhere in town in the flatlands, probably for good reason, except in the Bay Lands which is zoned AC but as she pointed out last week, the logical place for each activity would be in the sericulture' per AC zone or in the 0$ sore if a person was going t t keep cows end pigs they slight as well be allowed to keep domestic animals and household pets. - ANENDHUBT: Councilmember Witherspoon moved, seconded by Councilmember Eyex1y, to -allow kennels and boarding facilities in the AC (Page 156), end In the OS Diettict (Wage 150). Councilmember Witherspoon pointed out parenthetically that both these asses were allowed nova, that they were just not spelled out in the new zoning acrd irsance . , Mayor Sher &aid that be would vote fen it if it were a conditional use. Councilmember Witherspoon replied,that if they could keep pigs on ten scree day not dogs? Nayor Sher said that if he were a neighbor he would want a voice in the matter. Councilmember Henderson asked for verification that this was a permitted use in' these zonea. Co'ncil- member Witherspoon replied that in the LC gone they v.4i4 permitted, she had it in the green book. In the open spare stem it is determined that tbey are probably eliosa3d under animal husbandry. Mayor Sher noted that would be a permitted use in the 4S sone now. Councilmember Witherspoon also pointed out that a persons bad to get a?emit or license to - have Chose facilities and there are: other stns ent requirements in the ether pert of the manicihal code on What a panty brad to do 've get that kennel permit. So tbe city *ea protected there. 6 3 3 2/6/75 Councilmember Henderson saki that his problem was that he was not familiar enough with those regulations to know if that was protection against neighboring people and so forth or did the permit relate to certain health standards. Councilmember Witherspoon replied that, and the discretion of the Chief Animal Control Officer in the City, Who can lay on the previsions as necessary, Councilmember Henderson said that he would prefer making it a conditional use. W. Booth said that the staff had been rooting through the OS and AC regulations and it is not dear by any means that that kind of use is a permitted use in either of the zones at the present time. In fact, he would describe it as being doubtful. Animal husbandry and livestock faring are permitted in the OS zone and he thought that it might be stretching a pdint to say that included a commercial animal kennel, likewise similar wording in the AC zone. The kenn,1 that is out in the Bay Lands and {s in a PC zone. Councilmember Uittarspoon noted that under the Municipal Code they didn't differentiate between anybody who has 1 hobby kennel or a commercial kennel and that may be part of the problem that they would get at later. Mayor Sher said that the notion was clear enough though, in both of the zones this would be I permitted use if this motion passes. Mr. Knox remarked that kennels were noisy and he thought that ten acres or not that noise ought to be taken into account and a conditional use would be more appropriate. The other uses that they were talking about were quieter uses, he had never heard any noise from animal husbandry. Courciirember Witherspoon said that she cuas happy to allow it as a con- ditional use, she just felt it was an appropriate use for that zoning; if the feeling was that the Council would prefer to have a conditional use on it in addition' to the licensing permit, that was alright with her too. AMENDMENT TO A21KII-itNT: Councilmember Witherspoon moved, seconded by Eyerly, to allow as a conditional use, kennels and boarding facilities for animals in the AC (Agricultural Commerical) zone (Page 156) and in the OS (Open Space) district. The amendment wee acceptable to Councilmember Eyerly who seconded the original amendment. AMENDMEWT PASSES: Mayor Sher called for the vote on the motion and amend rnt. The amended amendment passed unanimously. Councilmember TietCher remarked that they bad .discussed lrive-up facilities, pretty thoroughly, but she did vant to put in ai last little pitch here and respond to a couple of comments thet were wade. One comment was that demo -up windows area service, a convenience for people with children and for old people. Her response to that is that they are the very ones oho would suffer most from the funs that - ihey inhale and children in particular have no choice about it if they are being taken to.s.drive-up window sad it is best to protect them if they can. She had no intent of banning automobiles from Palo Alto, there were many drive -up windows at the pres tat time to take care of those people who fesi that they need thaw. She thought that to stop their proliferation et this tine will enhance the alualfty of life in Palo Alto, both visually and tram a health standpoint and also from the energy standpoint, in that gasoline will be saved. Tho studies that she read do asy that snore area would_ have to be paved if the cars have to be •atecked up rather then parked parallel. She just wanted to Make it clear that any group, any staff„ ald academic person who has looked at this have been uneniaoua in their recommendation in that drive -up type facilities should have Some kind 634 2/6/78 of control, that they were not to the benefit of the community. AMENDMENT: Councilmember Fletcher moved, seconded by Councilmember Henderson that staff be directed to draw up wording to prohibit new drive -up window service facilities in all commercial zones. Councilmember Henderson seconded the motion for purposes of discusstion. Mayor Sher noted that this was the last point that they could talk about tonight because a lot of people scant to be heard on it. He had mixed feelings about this motion because he thought that they have reached the point where they did have to take some drastic action to deal with over dependence on the automobile. At the sale time, this represents a subatanitai new departure tor inclusion in the zoning ordinance; one that was not considered by the Planning Commission. His own feeling was that they had to give the people Who will be affected an opportunity to talk about it, banks act others Who might not have drive -up facilities now, ate it would be bettee to take this on as a separate kind of study in the Planning Commission or elsewhere, rather than trying to emend it out et this point. That was ruby be couldn't support the 'lotion, but he would support a motion for the Planning Commission to consider it. Councilmeiaber Fazzino said that a couple of hours ago he did raise the issue of doing whatever the Council could to prevent discrimination agaai tst bikers and people who walk up to drive -up facilities. He asked the Mayor if he felt it would be beat for this to be discussed as a separate item at the Planning Commission level, Mayor Sher thought that it would he appropriate here to say that drive -up would be permitted as a conditional use, provided that they also allow walk-up, but they were not going to get to that tonight, they were going to brae to deal with that later, The only time thee would have would be to deal with Councilmember Fleteher's motion which is in the cottext of the zoning ordinance and would direct the staff to draw up language that would prohibit new drive -up facilities. Be then called hp Councilmember Carey. NOTION TO TABLE AMENDMENT: Councilmember Carey s►oved, seconded by Wither- spoon, to table the amendment motion. Mayor Sher noted the motion to table was not debatable. Be called for the vote. MOTION TO TAME AMENDMENT PASSED: The motion to table passed on an 8-1 vote, Vice Mayor Breyer voting no. AMENDMENT: Councilmember Fletcher soled, seconded by Henderson, that all commercial establishments shall display a street building number is such a! mariner to be c1e*r1 visible from the street; Councilmember Fletcher said that the intent of the motion if both safety and convenience because one sew autoemobiles driving on El Camino Deal, tr ing desperately to find out where the building is that they know the address of, they don't know if .they are on the right block, don't know if they are on the right•srlde of the street, and While residences usunily have numbers clearly pis}bley ` she saw no reason Why commercial establish- ments shouldn't have their number* up, also. Mayor Sher was advised -by umbers of thae staff that this item wasn't appropriate for inclusio in the toning ordinance, that it eboUd be soNembe' a else, therefore there gill have to be some discussion. ANT vi : Councilmember Fletcher withdrew the motion .with the agreement of her second. 6 3 5 2/6/18 MOTION TO ADJOURN: Counci?member Brenner moved, seconded by Cour,cilmember Henderson that the uaeeting adjourn to 7:30 p.m. on February 7. Mayor Sher recounted where they were. Council was still considering the commercial "C" zones and tomorrow night Councilmembers will have further opportunity to move additional amendments, and then they will hear from the public on the PC and PP zones, and deal with those; then the Council will turn to the so-called miscellaneous zones, including definitions, parking, amortization period. Also, he was told that at the recess tomorrow night they will also have to take a little time for a brief executive session; so that is the way it would go tomorrow niGiit at 7:30 p,m. ADJOURN ENT : M; yon: S'e.2r called for the vote. At 12:00 midnight by unanimous decision, the meeting adjourned to 7:30 p.m., February 7, 1978. ATTEST: APPROVE: C _y Cleric JP j Mayor 1 636 2/617e