HomeMy WebLinkAbout1984-12-10 City Council Summary MinutesCITY
COUNCIL
1 a
ITEM
Regul ar eting
December 10, 1984
Oral Communications
Approval of the Minutes of September 18, 1984,
Adjourned Meeting of September 17, 1984
Item #1, Resolution of Recognition to Virgil Carter
re Downtown Charette
Item #2, Resolution Congratulating Participants in
Downtown Charette
Consent Cal ender
Referral
Action
Item #3, Resol ution re Suppl ement No , 1 to the
Northern Cal ifornia Agency Joint Powers Agreement
CITY
OF
PALO
ALTO
P A G
5 2 9 3
c 2 9 3
5 2 9 3
5 2 9 4
5 2 9 4
5 2 9 4
5 2 9 4
5 2 9 4
Agenda Changes, Additions and Deletilns 5 2 9 4
Item #4, PUBLIC HEARING: PI anning Commission
recommendation re decision of Director of Planning
and Community Environment to approve Preliminary
Parcel Nap at 418-420 Everett
Item #5, PUBLIC HEARING: Planning Commission
ret;e4mendation re Comprehensive Plan Land Use Map
Change for property located at 415 and- 483
Hawthorne
Item #6, Planning • Commission and Architectural
Review Board recommendation re application of . City
of Palo Alto for Site and Design Approval re Fire
Facility in Foothills Park
Item #7 , Foothills Fire Facility
Item #B, Sailing Station Reports
Recess
Item #9. Sol id Waste Management Plan
A1:dj ourmlmes t 11: 45 p.m.
5 2 9 4
5 2 9 5
5 2 9 7
5 2 9 7
5 3 0 3
5.3 D 9.
5 3,1 5
5 3 1 7
5 2 9 2
12/10/84
Reg ul ar Meeting
December 10, 1984
The City Council of the City of Palo Alto met on this date in the
Council Chambers, 250 Hamilton Avenue, Palo Alto, California, at
7:35 p .m.
PRESENT: Bechtel (arrived at 7:36 p.m.) , Cobb, Klein,
Levy, Renzel , Sutori us , Witherspoon, Woolley
ABSENT: Fletcher
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None
MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 18, 1984, ADJOURNED MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 17,
MOTION: Cauncilmember Witherspoon moved, seconded by Cobb,
approval of the Minutes of September 18, 1984, Adjourned Meeting
of September 17, 1984, as submitted.
$OTIOM PASSED unanimously, Fletcher absent.
ITEM #1, RESOLUTION OF RECOGNITION TO VIRGIL CARTER -RE DOWNTOWN
tHARETTE 'PCA 1-2)
Mayor Klein commended the outstanding contributions of Virgil
Carter to the downtown architectural charette, which was held
Noy ember 2 through November 4. Mr. Carter worked with Professor
Paul Neel and 23 graduate architectural students from Ca.l Poly at
San Luis Obispo. He provided leadership and assistance for two
days and nights to the five teams of students. Each team provided
innovative conceptual designs at a public presentation on November
4 and the scope of those assignments included how potential growth
could be reduced in downtown Palo Alto; how traffic and parking
could be .iuproved in selected areas downtown; how to protect .adja-
cent neighborhoods from downtown traffic; and concepts of vision-
ary uses of the nearby Southern Pacific land. The City Council ,
PI arming Commission, Arc hi tectural Review Board, Historic
Resources Board, and citizens of Palo Alto appreciated the extra-
ordinary efforts and leadership contributed by Virgil Carter in
the architectural charette. . The City Council recorded its aopre-
ciation and congratulations for the outstanding achievements and
hard work of Virgil Carter.
MOTION: Ceuicil■ember Sutorius moved, seconded . by. Levy,
approval of the resoletion of recognition to Virgil Carter.
RESOLUTION 6333 entitled "RESOLUTION OF THE COUNCIL OF
`MME CITT IP PALO ALTO RECOGNIZING THE OUTSTANDING
COMT*IONTIONS OF VIRGIL CARTER TO PALO ALTO'S DOWNTOWN
CURETTE"
Mayor Klein said be attended the preseatat#on, which was a
theu$bt-provekiaD and ■refill exercise. The community should be
proud.
MOTION PASSED uaaal.oraly, Fletcher absent,
Mr. Carter spoke on behalf of himself, Professor Neel and the Cal
Poly students and thanked the Council for its recognition. He
thanked the City for supporting the charette, .and Ken ,Schreiber,
Bruce Freeland, and George Zimmerman for their help.
5 2 9 3
12/10/84
ITEM RESOLUTION CQNGRATU! ATING PARTICIPANTS IN DOWNTOWN
C; AR TT (PLA 1-2 }
Mayor Klein said each team of students worked dil igently and crea-
tively during the students' 48 -hour stay in Palo Alto and pre-
sented innovative and thought -provoking conceptual ideas at a
publ is presentation on November 4, 1984. The Council recorded its
appreciation for the outstanding achievements and hard work of
Professor Paul Neel and the students from California Polytechnic
State University at San Luis Obispo.
MOTION: Tice Mayor Levy moved, seconded by Cobb, approval of
the resal itien camgratel sting participants in downtown cbarette.
RESOLUTION 6334 entitled °RESOLU ION OF THE COUNCIL OF
iiirTMLO ALTO CONGRATULATING PARTICIPANTS IN
PALO ALTO'S DOWNTOWN ARCHITECTURAL MUM"
MOTION PASSED aaanimeisiy, Fletcher absent.
CONSENT CALENDAR
MOTION: Cenecilaember Cobb moved, seconded by Levy, approval of
the Consent Calendar.
Referral
None
Action
ITEM #3 RESOLUTION RE SUPPLEMENT N0. 1 TO THE !NORTHERN CALIFORNIA
IGENC (UT i 3-2)
Staff recommends that Council adopt the resolution authorizing
execution of Supplement No. 1 to the Northern California Power
Agency Joust Powers Agreement, which provides for membership in
NCPA for the Turlock Irrigation District.
RESOLUTION 6333 'eatl tl ed a RESOLUTION OF THE COUNCIL OF
PALO ALTO miasma AD0 AVTHORIZING
EXECUTION SE SUPPLEMENT NO. 1 TO MORTMERN CALIFORNIA
POWER ` AGENCY PSWUS AGREEMENT ADDING " T#IRLOCIC
IRRIGATION .IISTRICT AS A MEMBER
M TLO$ PASSED unanimously, Fletcher absent.
AGENDA CHANGES, ADDITIONS AND DELETIONS
None
ITEM :#4 PUBLIC HEARING: PLANNING COMMISSION. RECOMMENDATION RE
4f8'4ftf tVERETT (PLA 3-1
Planning Commissioner Bark Chandler said the Architectural Review
Board (ARa) condition was not proposed by the Planning' Commission,
but was the result of the appl scant meeting with the appellant of
the parcel map. By the time the matter went before the Planning
Commission, the problem was worked out and the appeal was viewed
as moot.
Mayor K1 ein decl aged the publ is hearing open. Receiving no
requests from the public .;to speak, he declared the public hearing
cl osed
0
MOTION: Couacilmember Cobb sieved, seconded by Levy, to adopt
the Pl ansi ag Commission recommeadat1 oe to uphold the decision of
the iii recur of Pl among and Comadaity ERvironsesc to approve the
preliminary parcel sap for two cendominiem units at 418-420
£varett with as additional condition that the project obtain
design approval from the ARB.
MOTION PASSED unanimously, Fletcher absent.
ITEM #5, PUBLIC HEARING: PLANKING COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION RE
CHANGE FROM SINGLE FARTLT
RL5IDit ,TIAL TO MULTIPLE FAM Y itESID1N1T COMfM1JN TT CUMMERCTA[
OR St . . L CHAIiOE +OF ZONE DISTTtfCir FROG R-2 TO
3IP4-1 , -2, -3, -7:47-0T-57-OR CS, CC Oat OTHER ZONE DISTRICT" FO -R
IsTOTERTY LOCATEV AT 476
Mayor Klein declared the public hearing open.
Steve Long, 532 Colorado, spoke on behal f of the Hoover. Park
Neighborhood Association, who unanimously believed that upzoning
from R-2 should not be done.
Mayor Klein declared the public hearing closed.
•
Councilmember Renz_el asked if staff communicated with Ms. Karras
and if she was led to bel ieva the item would be heard later,
Executive Assistant Lynn ie Melena said staff had not been in con-
tact with Ms. Karras since the Planning Commission meeting when. it
was announced that the item would be on the December 10, 1984 City
Council agenda.
MOT �Qii: Coaac i l meatier Sartori us moved, seconded by Cobb, to
adopt the Planning Commission recommendation to deny a Coap•rehoa-
sive Plan Load Use Rap change from Single Family Residential to
.l ti pl a Family Residential, Community Commercial or Service Com-
erciai r and change of zone district from R-2 to Rif -1 s -2, -3, -4,
-1, or CS (Service Commercial), CC (Community Commercial) •r ether
zone district ter property located at 475 and 483 Hawtherae.
Councilmeaber. Bezel said people addressing Bed and Breakfast
facilities often looked at some of the technical difficulties and
impacts on the neighborhood. She believed that for future refer-
ence, Council should be mindful that it also had a significant
impact on the cost of housing in Palo Al to .
* T1On PASSED unanimously. Fletcher absent.
ITEM #6. PLANNING COMMISSION AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD
rrLicA ALTOOF-VJEO FOR SITE AND
ULSIrtk molit `r A PERAAWrilr,—SMINAL FIRE FACILITY
1g F9b Lit (PAR 2-15)
ITEM el, FOOTHILLS .FIRE FACILITY (CMR:581:4) (PAR 2-15)
NATION: Mier Klein sewed* seConded by Qechtei , to consider
Items #0 and #7 tells/there
MOTION PASSED aaaaiweeesly, Fletcher absent.
Ceuracilmember Cobb asked what capital projects would likely suffer
if Council approved the recommendation.
City Manager Bill Zaner said the request was for an amendment to
the budget. Money would be taken from unappropriated funds and
inserted into the budget.- No otherprojects would suffer.
Councilaeber Cobb asked if it was fair to assume that the ARB
focused on aesthetics and thatcost trade-offs were not .,a factor.
5 2 9 5
12/10/84
City Planner Sarah Cheney said that was correct.
Mayor Klein asked how something could cost $100,000 extra and not
affect anything else. He believed it meant there was $100,000
less to spend on other projects.
Mr. Zaner said the rest of the Capital Improvement Program would
proceed as scheduled, and the fire facility would come out of un-
approariated funds.
Mayor Klein clarified the City had $100,000 less to spend on
another capital improvement project next spring.
Mr. Zaner said any budget amendment from unappropriated funds
meant that much money less for any kind of service the City pro-
vided --be it capital or operational.
Councilmember 'Sutorius said on page 5 of the Environment Impact
Assessment, the paragraph headed "Project Site" described five
factors that argued in support of the propoeed site as the best
for the seasonal fire facility. He asked if the site immediately
to the right of the access road to the Boronda waiver tank was con-
sidered and, if so, what caused it to lose out to the final pro-
posed site. Just to the right of the beginning of the access road
in the cable and gate area, a plateau nestled in against the ridge
on which the road proceeded and the tank was located. The
plateau's immediate proximity to the existing' park and access
road, plus the fact that so much attention was paid to potential
vandal i.sm, caused him to wonder if a site located on that plateau
might have some advantages.
Fire Chief Bob Wall said a number of sites .were considered inside
the park, but that particular site was. not reviewed. Similar
sites, in terms of accessibility,- and somewhat better in terms of
security, were not approved by the Community Screening Committee
because of the visual impact on the park. It was believed that a
site not disruptive to the operation of the park or its visual
aesthetics would be more advantageous. Therefore a site slightly
off of the main roadway was selected.
Councilmember Sutorius clarified it was unlikely there would be
any cost estimates in terms of the development on the plateau and
any savings because of reduced need for grading, easier access,
potentially less expensive landscaping, and a shorteredistance for
the electric and telephone connections.
Assistant Director of Public Works George Bagdon said the costs
would not be appreciably different on the •plateau site.
Councilmember Sutorius did not strongly advocate a resiting of the
facility, but due to the increased costs involved and the concerns
about taking precautions against vandalism, etc., he believed
there might be two values to reconsidering the site. If the loca-
tion were more observable to passersby, a vandal would not go onto
the site as he would be more easily observed. If an obvious offi-
cial park structure with possible personnel were visible, then
undesirable behavior would be less apt to occur as people would
know themselves to be under. observation.
Mr. Bagdon said the costs associated with security were less than
$2,000 to $3,000, and the cost savings for the grading would also
be minor. Without further analysis, he could ' not see mach
savings. In addition, a soil test in the area would be required,
which might cause increased costs in other areas such as the road-
way. There might be offsetting pasts, and he did not see a sub-
stantial reduction in the $I05,000 budget amendment that would
result fro* moving tire. fec ll l ty to that t site.
Councilmember Woolley anted how many months .during the year ,.the
station would be occupied.
Chief Rail said the fire foe 11 i ty would be staffed on a seasonal
basis fur approximately four months during the fire season. The
fire season was established by his department in conjunction with
the Cal ifornia Division of Forestry, based on weather and fuel
conditions, etc.
Councilmember Woolley asked what square footage the living area
would cover, not including the fire apparatus and car port, etc
Mr. Bagdon said the living area would be 864 square feet.
Councilmember Woolley salt that would be a small house, and the
dollars per square foot were high for the living space. She asked
if the Planning- Commission's discussions considered whether a dif-
ferent and heavier landscaping plan would help* the visual impact
of the first facility seen.
Planning Commissioner Mark Chandler said the Corsmission only dis-
cussed alternatives for a different location for the road. When
it was determined that a different location would require a
greater amount of grading, it was rejected. They acted unani-
mously, but had not discussed the el eraents the Council was con-
sidering.
Vice Mayor Levy was' concerned about the costs. He asked' how the
substantial difference between the original budget sum of $80,000
and the new estimate for $185,000 arose. The cost per square foot
was excessive. When he talked with people in the community', he
did not want to be embarrassed by the cost of the facility.
Mr. Bagdon said the cost of the residence area in the new building
was $67,000 of the total $185,000, or $77 per square foot. The
golf course prefab building cost $56 per square foot and the Greer
Park restrooms approved by the Council cost $167 per square foot.
The cost of $77 was well within the realm of industry standards
for a building at that time. The major difference between the two
estimates arose because the first estimate assumed a trailer on a
slab, with utilities connected to it. The cost of the trail er-
type building was $37,000, with a further $4,000 for a simple
canopy carport to . cover the fire engines for $4,000. The new
estimate allowed $67,000 for the building and $26,000 for a match-
ing carport, making a total of $93,000, which was where the major
difference arose.
Vice Mayor Levy understood the increase for landscaping, but could
not understand the cost of $18,000 simply to extend electric ser-
vice connections from the water tank down to the lake, as it
l ooked relatively simple.
Mr. Bagdon replied trenching, installing a conduit, and refilling
the trench would be necessary, which would cost approximately
$18,000. Tile estimates were given by - the Util Wtie's Electrical
Department. The costs for trenching and the conduit would be $16
per foot, plus other materials.
Vice Mayor Levyreferred to the cost of $77 per square foot for
the living space and the design, construction and administration
cost. He asked if it would be proper to include the design, con-
struction and administration cysts as pert of the overall cost of
building a standard house in Palo Alto,
Mr. Bagdon .said those costs would have to be added, bringing the
total cost to approrci atel y $99 per square foot.
Vice Mayor Levy asked what kind of premium was being paid for
erecting the structure in the ;foothills as opposed to erecting it
on.a- vacant lot in the net area.
1
1
5 2 9.7.
12/10184 =
i Ba k i it 1i f i t The access costs
i,►at � U,ii ii said i 4 irld s ii i i � 1 V Gf � b i.�1 C 3 b 1 lil � i.� ,
via Page Aill Road and into the park would be higher: He knew it
would be somewhat more expensive to build in the hills.
Councilmember Bechtel referred to the Architectural Review Board
(ARB) reason for denying the original application. The submitted
plans contained a sketchy diagram of the modular building. She
could not tell what the problems were, and the ARB minutes were
not received. She asked for an ARB comparison of the modular and
the considerably more expensive buildings.
Vice Chairman of the Architectural Review Board Virgil Carter,
responding from memory, said the ARB was concerned about the
appearance and temporary nature of trailer buildings. Whether it
was in the Industrial Park or anywhere else, the ARB tended to
look critically at temporary buildings --particularly trailer
buildings. Costs were not discussed during either the first or
the second review. The ARB was iauch more pleased at the second
review with the proposed al ternative to the trail er.
Councilmember Bechtel said it did not appear from the drawings to
be a trailer.
Mr. Bagdon said it was a prefab, not a trailer on wheels.
Councilmember Bechtel asked if it had metal siding, or imitation
wood
Supervising Engineer Patrick Stone said the proposed trailer unit
would have been a metal siding nodular unit that would slip into
the pole structure foundation. It would not have wheels.
Councilmember Bechtel asked if it would be of shiny metal. She
understood the ARB s concern if it would shine like a beacon
throughout the ridgetops.
Chief Wall said the idea was to take a modular unit built in the
sane fashion as a trailer -type structure, and to fit it inside a
wooden pole exterior with a wooden roof and siding, to mirror the
kind of architecture of the park's current restrooms. It would be
slid into the wooden exterior and closed off so that it did not
have the appearance of a modular unit. The unit would be prefab-
ricated in a factory, brought up, and placed within the pole
wood -and -groove structure.
Councilmember Bechtel did not understand the :problem if it was to
be a modular unit slid into a wood structure and therefore a lot
cheaper. When a developer dare to the Council to appeal an ARB
decision, the Coundi1 wes the final arbiter. As the City was now
the appellant, she asked who . would arbitrate.
City Attorney Diane. Lee said the Council would also act as the
arbiter. There would be no conflict, as the Council personally
had no economic interest, but was sitting as public officials, and
their interest was thatof the public.
City Manager Bill Diner said that from an operational point of
view, either structure was adequate. It made no difference to
staff to operate out of the so-called *temporary structure" or the
new building.
Co unc 1 I member Bechtel said the Council approved modular or
factory -assembled housing for single-family residential areas..
She suggested the original proposal was of a similar nature.
Ms. Cheney understood the structure was to be a prefab unit with
metal siding painted some earth -tone color and free-standing from
the surroundings pole constructlon, which was to give the temporary
structure an appearance of more permanence so there would not be
any connection- between that structure except at grade. There was
2 g.8
12/10/84
approximately a one foot gap between the outside poles and the
unit itsel f, The ARB had problems accepting the visual appearance
of the building.
Mayor Klein clarified that the "modular" units were not. really
temporary.
Councilmember• Cobb understood the aesthetic considerations in-
volved, but asked if there was any operational benefit to the Fire
Department from the permanent plan as opposed to the prefabricated
plan.
Chief Hall said no,
Councilrnember Sutorius asked if the facility would be a seasonal
fire station.
Chief Wall said yes. The Foothills Fire Management Plan called
for a seasonal fire facility.
Cnuncilmember Sutorius clarified it would be vacant during the
winter season.
Chief Wall said it would not be operated as a seasonal fire facil-
ity during the winter season. The facility could be used for
other purposes by park personnel , for staff meetings, and limited
community use .
Council ember Sutorius asked if the location of the facil ty----not
the site specific —would have a favorable influence on fire insur-
ance rates for citizens in the area.
Chief Wall said it could, but to what extent was a function of the
grading and rating schedule. When the City was graded last year
by Insurance Services Organization, it shared that there would be
a seasonal fire facility staffed and operating during the fire
season in the foothills.
Councilmember Woolley said there was a dilemma between the City
maintaining a reasonable standard in its building and the 1`ect
that the facility was to be occupied as its main intent only four
months during the year. She asked if the Council night refer the
matter back to the ARB to discuss and look at the costs as we11 as
the aesthetics of the building and make suggestions to possibly
scal e down the permanent structure.
Ms. Lee saw no problem.
MOTION: Coencilwalaber Woolley Moved, seconded by kennel B that
Council refer the Foothills Fire Facility back to time AU to
review casts and aesthetics.
Mr. Zaner said referring the matter back to the ARB caused no
problems in terms of timing, but he was concerned about injecting
the question of cost at the ARS l ev el . The ARB was charged to
1 ook at other kinds of things,- and if the issue of costs were in-
jected into its deliberations, he was not sure it would be as ob-
jective as possible about the kinds of things Council looked to
they for.
Vice Mayor Levy agreed with the thrust of Counc ilmember . Wool 1 ey' s
motion. He suspected there was an in-between position in terms of
costs and aesthetics between the original budget of $80,:000 and
the revised budget of $185,000 He asked how a new look could be
taken at the fac it ity with the hope of developing an aesthetic al I y
satisfactory building at a much lower cost. He asked if the
referral should go back to the Public Works Department.
5 2 9 9
12/10/84
i4r. Z rine loci ievvci any structure ceui d be .uui i t between the orig-
inal and the new costs, depending upon, the required texture or
finish to the building. Referring the item back to the ARB would
refer it back to staff since they would not simply return to the
ARB wl th the same pl an .
Vice Mayor Levy asked if staff was satisfied the motion would
accomplish that objective,
Mr. Zaner said the motion was satisfactory if: Co,.ncii wanted to
refer the item back to the ARB rather than avail it3e1 f of its
authority to approve the original project.
Vice Mayor Levy supported the motion. He was sympathetic to
ensuring that the aesthetics 'n the area were maintained, but
believed that for a substantially lower cost, using landscaping,
etc., all objectives could be accomplished.
Mr. Bagdon said there were two ramifications: staff would need an
additional authorization in the contingency allowance for the con-
sul tent's restudy; and no fire facility would be available for the
next fire season. The Interpretive Center would again have to be
used, as construction of the new facility would not occur until
late summer and the building could not be occupied until 1986.
Mayor Klein believed a more precise motion was needed. Staff, the
Planning Commission and ARB all reviewed the matter, and Council
was unhappy with them all I. A dollar guideline was possible, or
Council . could accept the original plan or the later one. The
Council had the budgetary concern, and should give more explicit
instructions so staff and the ARB had some idea of what Council
wanted. The Council was asking the ARB to work as its architect.
When hiring an architect, a budget was given as his designs would
vary according to the money avail able. He suggested that staff be
told to work within a constraint of approximately $100,000.
Mr. Bagdon said a total $100,000 budget would return them to where
they were presently. Regardless of .what the building looked like,
$18,000 was needed for the utility going in . They had an $80,000
budget to design what was shown, and adding $18,000 to what was
originally proposed to the ARB totaled almost $100,000. The sum
would have to be more than $100,000 and below $185,000 to make a
difference, and would have to be about $100,000 to do any good.
Mayor Klein said the 1 and scaping and irrigation would add a
further $14,000.
Mr. Bagdon said the building alone was $62,000 in increased cost.
M E*I L T Mayor Klein moved to instruct staff, the AU. end
the Flanging Commission that the hvigeat .for the project skoo1d Met
eaceld $iZO,Oe s Kaal Bass it was taken into account epee advising.
Comac i t mi t§ regeird to the design.
AXESOMEMT FAILED FOR LACK Of A SECOND.
Councilmehrbar Bechtel was concerned about referring an item to the
ARB for coat considerations. They were not the architects= -an
architect was hired to look into that question Other developers
did no,,> go to the ARB and state that their budget was; for a cer-
tain amount end they could not accede to certain ARB demands.,:
Every time the proposal was returned for redesign it cost more.:
If the Councilwas concerned about spending twice as much as orig-
inally planned, it lade. no sense to continually redesign. The
consultant. for whom $15,,000 was originally budgeted. now cost
$26.000, Council should either approve the first l an —the staff
-recommendation, adding :n the necessary electrical end landscaping_
that was necessary in any case, or adopt the plan as approved by
the ARS.
5 3 0 0
12/10/84
SUBSTITUTE NOTION: Cosec. i i meT er as`iht*l mewed, seconded by
Co66, to approve a revised total budget of $112,000.
Councilmember Witherspoon asked if the $112,000 included the usual
15 percent contingency.
Councilmember Bechtel offered to add a contingency.
Mr. Bagdon said some contingency should be added as he would have
to ask the consultant where they were after the Council's latest
direction. He suggested a 10 percent contingency.
MAKER AND SECOND ADDED LANGUAGE TO ADD A 10 PERCENT CONTINGENCY.
Councilmember Witherspoon supported the motion and the contingency
fund. She preferred a permanent structure, but believed they
could manage with the modular unit. She was more concerned about
cost- of fec t1 ene ss , and was ready to spend more money if the per-
manent structure would be more cost-effective. She asked if staff
was satisfied the City would get sufficient useful life from the
modular building, and assumed the ARB denied the original project
only because it was modul ar and unaesthetic .
Mr. Stone said staff was satisfied that; the modular structure was
as durable and as long-lasting as a permanent structure.
Councilmember Cobb seconded the motion because, although the ARB
lead the Council to a far more aesthetic design, only a relatively
minor aesthetic advantage would be gained when . the surrounding
landscaping had grown. Some money could be taken from capital
reserves for needed projects up to a certain point, but .then they
had to suffer like Greer ,Park, which waited for 10 years and was
still not finished. People in the community preferred to see such
needed projects finished if a decent sol ution for substantially
less money could be found. Money should be spent where peopl e had
waited for a long time. He asked if the project had to go back
for further Planning Commission or ARB review,
Mr. Laver said the right budget amendment would have to be
adopted, and staff would have to ensure that .the appropriate Park
amendment ordinances were made. He preferred that staff return to
the Council with the appropriate documents. If the Council gave
staff instructions to proceed with the $112,000 budget plus a 10
percent contingency, staff would prepare the appropriate docu-
meets.
Ms. Lee confirmed the project did not need to go back to the Plan-
ning Commission.
Vice Mayor Levy said it was hypocritical for him to vote 1n favor
of the substitute motion. He could not recall the Council ..ever
having overridden the ARB .in .such an arbitrary way. If a •private
developer went before the Council in the same circumstances with a
project absolutely d i sa pprov ed by the ARB tl the Council would never
approve it. It was an arrogant abuse of power. The $123,000 max-
imum made sense to him, and he was satisfied staff could come up
with a project that would attain ARB approval within that amount.
It was necessary to get ARB approval = particularly when talking
about foothills" Park where a facility would stand out like a sore
thumb if not built with great sensitivity to the area. The sub-
stitute motion, which arbitrarily wont back to the original .budget
without showing it to the ARB again, was wrong He was satisfied
with the original motion. Even though no absol ute sum was set,
staff was given, cl ear signal s that ;.the amount of money to be: spent
should -be far , less thin $185,000 end, should be . the minimum neces-
sary to come up with a, project that would receive ARB approval.
He was neither a landscape tier .construction architect, and was
uncomfortable approving a project for Foothills Park without ARS
ap roval.
5 3 0 1
12/10/84
r
hiseyur Klein Luuk exception with the statement that, for City pro.-
ects the City was a private developer and everything should be
considered - in that light. The City was different —it was a publ is
body, spending public funds. It was relevant for the Council to
take the City s budget into account, and it was fair to make such
a distinction between the . City and a private de i el oiler . There
were distinctions between the public and the private sector, and
they were putting their heads in the sand to not take it into
account. It was not a factor for consideration by the ARB or the
Planning Commission as it was not within their realm of responsi-
bil ity. They did not review the budget except for limited 11 an-
nir 'JCommission reviewof the Capital Improvement budget. It was
the Council's responsibtl ity to wisely use the money entrusted to
it by the citizens. All Councilmembers had trouble with a budget
that more than doubled the original estimates. He could not sup-
port it. Since the Council was responsible for saying how City
funds should be used on such projects, he had to exercise that
authority. Since it was l;.possible to give the ARB a second
chance to look at the project with a specific budgetary constraint
he had to exercise his best judgment, which considered the various
other demands on the City's limited resources. It was -the wiser
course to spend money as outlined in the substitute motion .and not
opt for a price spread. - They would not get their money's worth,
and Council had to be more frugal.
Councilmember Sutorius did not bel ieve any of the proposed motions
would win the necessary votes. He was more comfortable with the
substitute motion as he understood the subject would return to
Council after staff and the consultant worked it over. At that
time, he expected they would have elevations to show the Council
what they were asked to approve.
Mr. Zaner agreed the Park Dedication Ordinance required an exhib-
it, which was not there for a different project.
Councilmember Sutorius said in light cf that, he was more comfort-
able with the substitute motion. He did not believe Council was
being violent to the ARB, but was accepting its responsibility
when matters caste for referral or appeal of ARB decisions. The
Council would have the materials to make a decision on a proposal
that fit the substitute motion, and he was prepared to support it.
The professional material submitted to Council identified existing
trees as olives when in fact they were eucalyptus trees, which
gave him pause for concern about the completeness and accuracy of
work performed. The elevation for Vista Hill was given on offi-
cial documents as 922 feet, whereas the sign put on the Hill by
the City showed 950 feet. He was peRturbed about the way the
material was put together and was prepared to act critically when
the material returned.
Councilmember Renzei concurred with Vice Mayor Levy. The ARB
heard some of the Council's concerns. The original motion was
more general and should call for an honest report from the ARB,
while considering the economics to some extent. It was a better
motion es it was not limited to exact dollar amounts. The Council
might eventually have to do so, but the matter, was fully discussed
that evening.:
Councilmember Bechtel concurred with Vice Mayor Levy that the
Council needed to be aware of how .things were designed and built
in Foothill s Park. She was comfortable with the original plant as
portrayed. Although it +a s a modular structure, it would be sur-
rounded by wood and would fit in with the proposed landscaping.
She was comfortable wl th the origieel _ plan
AM E T: Vice Moyer .Levy seveds, seconded by fa"'
tbe pines to Arco# tsctarrel Review &bird for review ipsfoste rotor, -
ins is :Ceescii
5 3 0 2
12/10/84
Cvunicilmember sutorius said concern was expressed that the project
might not be open for the 1985 fire season. He asked if a rela-
tively prompt ARB review could be obtained to have the item back
to Council in time to meet the 1985 fire season.
Mr. Bagdon said that unless approval were given that evening, the
occupancy date of May 20 or 30, 1985 could not be met.
Co unc i i member Sutor i us understood that with or without the pro-
posed amendment, the 1935 fire season was missed,
Mr. Bagdon said it was unless Council approved the project as rec-
ommended.
Councilmember Sutorius supported the amendment, He was surprised
the matter could not be expedited, and hoped ways might be found.
AMENDMENT PASSED unanimousi°ly, (Fletcher absent.
MISTIME MOTION'; AS AMENDED PASSED unanimously, Fletcher
absent.
Mr. Zaner said the instructions were clearly understood. In the
staff recommendations, item 2 asked the Council for authorization
to execute change orders with the architect. That authori?ation
was reeded to go back and do the work since, al though they had the
necessary funds, they had reached their authorized limit.
M01101: Mayor Klein moved, seconded by Levy, to authorize staff
to execute change orders to the agreement with Woodson/barksdal e
Architects of up to $15„000.
MOTION! PASSED unanimously, Fletcher absent.
ITEM #8, SAILING STATION REPORTS (PWK 7-6) (CMR:554:4)
Councilmember Woolley referred to the staff report CMR:554:4 con-
cerning the location of the structure. She asked if the Yacht
Club insisted it be on the marsh or that it be in the compacted
area near the launching ramp.
Director of Recreation Paul Thiltgen said he had conversations
with the Yacht Club. A map showed the general vicinity of the
whole site with the building close to the `compacted area. The
primary concern was to maintain it outside the leased area to the
County and immediately adjacent to the parking lot.
Councilmewber Woolley asked for more specific information on where
the leased boundaries were.
Mr. Thiltgen pointed to a map which showed the leased area as ter-
minating at the end of the parking lot. A large square showed the
general vicinity where the walkway, pier, hoist, etc. would be.
The building would go in that general vicinity.
Councilmeaber Woolley asked if the area of the square, and even
the corner nearest the parking lot= was marshland.
Mr. Thiltgen said it was a compacted area, but not machine com-
pacted. It was a bard mud area, and did not go into the soft mud
area out closer to the towers.
Councilmember Woolley asked if there was any reason why the area
for the sailing station buildings, the parking and possible _stor
age area had to be outside the County lease area.
•
Mr. Tni 1 tgen said the lease situation was such that staff wanted
to maintain it outside. .The tease .lent on for a long time, and
they wanted to maintain it outside of that and within the area of
the City's (ewe property,
5 3 0 3
12/10/64
Councilmember Woolley referred to page 4 of the staff report, item
2B, which spoke of removal of the Yacht Club. She asked if the
timing for that was determined.
Mr. Zaner said he distributed a letter to : the Council some time
earlier to the Bay Conservation and Development Commission
(BCDC) indicating that the removal of the Yacht Club building it
self was not a part of the BCDC permit and was not required.
Councilmember Renzel asked why lease arrangements could not be
made with the Cc un ty and the City inside the lease area. She he d
not understood the response regarding trying to establish a facil-
ity within the area currently leased to the County.
Ms. Lee knew of no impediment to amending the lease agreement with
the County.
Councilmember Renzel presumed Mr. Thiltgen had been to the site.
He indicated that the nature of the soil was more compact, but she
asked if plants were growing in it, with the exception of the
small path area.
Mr. Thi1 tgen solid the area between the parking lot and the towers
was mostly devoid of plants, and the remainder was basically im-
pacted mud, which was hard and eeu1 d be walked on when he was
there during the rainy season. Most of the water areas were be-
yond the towers.
Councilmember Renzel said the photo shown was taken in 1977, and a
newer photo taken the previous May showed a lot of plant material.
She had personally been there, and with respect to a private group
operating a facility* she asked if it was reasonable for the pri-
vate group to have exclusive use for half the time the facility
was avail anal e.
Ms. Lee said the cases addre si ng that area did not usually speak
about the quantum of use. If she had to call it, she bet ieved al-
lowing one particular group to have 50 percent or more exclusive
use was pressing the limits of the park ordi antes and cases in
the field.
Councilmember Renzel asked if half the time meant half a calendar
year or -half the usable time of a fac ll ity.
Ms. Lee said such a facility with a launch ramp and which had a
season, there were people who wanted to use it in addition to the
members of the private group, and she assumed it meant "usable
time.*
Councilmember Renzel said the staff report gave no information on
how the fees would be structured or whether there would be off-
setting use by the Yacht Club in exchange for services. .Assuming
a private club operated a public facility, she asked if the club
members would use it free while the public .raid.
Ms. Lee believed everyone would have to be charged the same fees,
otherwise there would be some equal protection problems, particu-
larly with regard to\ the land in question.
Councilmember Renzel said the stuff report indicated that a sewer
line to the facility was needed, and also power lines. It did not
indicate what that would entail or even the general costs. She
essused they would either run under the recently paved road or out
through the marsh.
Mr. Thi l tgen said a sewer line would be required only if a Test -
room were provided in the facility. It was put in the report to
show that if a restroom were required, a sewer line would have to
be provided. He had specifics, but assumed the sewer would go
under the road and connect to the sewer line a to the Baylands
Interpretive Center.
5 3.0 4
12/10/84
As Corrected
2/11 /85
Councilsieu ber Reneel- said it appeared the proposal now had trio
hoists. She referred to page 2, paragraph 2, which mentioned the
hoist and later spoke of "a wooden catwalk with a small boat
hoist." She asked for confirmation that the catwal ks were 15 feet
wide --the same width as a two-lane road.
Mr. Thiltgen confirmed there would be only one hoist, and that the
catwalk was 16 feet wide.
Councilmember Bechtel referred to the lease. It was said that the
location was selected because it was outside the County's lease
area. She understood that the lease expired in 1986--a rel atively
short time --.and asked if the location was selected because of the
accessibil ity or depth of channel , etc .
Mr. Zane r , said the lease expired in March 1986, and the site loca-
tion was requested by the Yacht Club. Staff was instructed by
Council to work with the Yacht Club and to interpret their pro-
posal so it could be understood. He reviewed the Yacht Club' s
letter where the total information given was contained in one sen-
tence. Staff sat down with them to try to understand what was
wanted, then presented it in clearer form for the Council's
perusal . The Yacht Club selected the location.
Councilmember Witherspoon said for many years the Boy Scouts and
possibly the Girl Scouts enjoyed a facility in the City' s parks.
She looked on the matter in the same light. Since anyone inter-
ested in becoming a Boy Scout could join, she presumed the same
was true in the case of a sail ing club.
Ms„ Lee referred to the question of exclusive use. The Garden
Club had periodic excl usfve use, as it used a City facia ity once a
month for a imirn ing meeting. The City also allowed periodic
exclusive use by other groups. She in no way meant to imply that
such a use was not possible. Foothills Park was used by City
staff for parties and by other private people or clubs. However,
that was not intensive use for large periods of time by one group.
It was the distinction the attorney`s office tried to iaake in its
report --an occasional or periodic use, or even exclusive use for a
weekend, as when the Palo Al to Tennis Club used the City' s tennis
courts, was permissible. To extend that greatly would cause prob-
lems about whom the facilities were really for.
Councilmember Witherspoon said there had to be some advantage to
having the ramp at the location proposed by the Yacht Club vas-a-
vis the present location. She assumed there would then be less
need to dredge. Once dredging stopped in the inner basin, the
boat ramp was expected to salt up. The proposed site did not seem
to be much further out.
Mr. Thfl tgen understood the sil tation problem was the basic reason
for the relocation, and agreed that it was hoped the tidal action
would keep it clear.
Councilmember Witherspoon asked if the building to store the crash
boat would be on pilings like the Interpretative Center, or with a
concrete foundation built in the mud.
Hr. Thiltgen said the building would be located back towards the
parking lot area, and could be placed directly on the parking lot.
The other structures such as the walkway would ell be on pilings.
Councilmember Witherspoon asked if it meant the building did not
need to be on pilings if built where the Yacht Club proposed -
Mr. Thiltgen confirmed that if it were built close to the parking
lot, it was not necessary to place it on pilings.
Councilmember Witherspoon enei`'loned a building much like the
Interpretative Center, with minimal impact on the ground beneath.
5 3 0 5
12/10/84
Mr. Thiltgen said that if the building were taken out into the
marshland, pilings would be necessary.
Councilmember Witherspoon understood a wide catwalk was necessary
to allow the boats to be rolled out on a trailer to the hoists.
Mr. Thiltgen said the reason for the width was to allow one to be
towed out and another in at the same time.
Councilmember Witherspoon -knew many clubs without that luxury who
managed, with a six or eight foot wide pier. She asked if the pier
went out to deep water where a boat could be launched and the
trailer returned. She obtained Mr. Thiitcgen's confirmation that a
float that would rise -and fall with the tide was envisioned where
the hbataeas launched.
Florence Sund, 160 Kingsley Avenue, a 25 -year Palo Altan and a
former docent for the Baylands, suggested the Council should visit
the Baylands at 8:00 a.m. when the water fowl were most active and
on the weekend, particularly at high tide. Up to 1,000 people
visited the Baylands on the weekend. The number of empty slips
showed that Yacht Club members did not go out in their boats on a
beautiful Sunday high tide. One had the treat of seeing two en-
dangered species --the clapper rail and the marsh mouse. The Coun-
cil should meet all of the wonderful people who loved the marsh
and wanted it protected against all intrusion.
Deborah Jamison, Program Director of the Peninsula Conservation
Center which belonged to the South Bay Wetlands Coalition, said
their members were dedicated to preserving marsh and wetlands
around the Bay, approximately 75 percent of which were destroyed:,
developed and filled. They were concerned about any loss of wet-
lands. The Bay was primarily a wild life habitat, also for endan-
gered species. They were concerned about saving the land for the
wild life and the many people who enjoyed an uninterrupted view
from the Interpretative Center, the nature walks, bird watching,
the out-of-doors and open space. The project was not minor when
16 foot wide piers went out 200 feet which would disrupt drain-
age, shade marsh plants and destroy some square footage. The
plans were vague, but it appeared to eevision a large disruption
o.f the ecosystem and area. The Council should take seriously the
many objections to the plan mentioned by the BCD , and not waste
too much time and money pursuing the proposal. Alternatives on
dry land were available for small boat launching that would not
take up a square inch of the precious wetlands.
Henry Cohan, 1425 Edgewood Drive, a 27 -year , Palo Altan, repre-'
seated the Yacht Club. Staff knew that anyone had access to the
facility any time it was in action. If the Club operated the
facility under contract to the City it would be open only when the
Club could staff it --weekends, holidays, and during the nine month
sailing season, with contestants having first rights during
regattas. If the City operated the facility, no one would have
first rights. The Club wanted to maintain small boat sailing in
the South Bay. Less than six Palo Alto Yacht Club member boats
currently berthed in the harbor. -Most left because there was not
enough water to go out and come back on the same day, even for
centerboard small boats. The Club was for small boats only, not
for the keel boats a speaker mentioned was berthed in the harbor.
If the Yacht Club bore the cost of staffing and operating the
facility, it was only fair that members not pay as much in fees.
If the City operattA the facility, Club members would pay the
regular fee. The location was chosen during informal
conversations with staff; There were potential difficulties in
dealing with the County on the lease and the .area near the ramp
would silt • rapidly. To ensure no need for dredging in the
foreseeable future, it was suggested building out near the natural
channel created by San Francisquito creek Soft samples would be
necessary. to find out whether the building should be placed on
piles. The program did not entail any filling of surface water.
They
5 3 0 6
12/10/84
As Corrected
2/11/85
wanted to save a precious recreational use, and did not want fill
or dredging. Palo Al to was the only city with :cces 'to the South
Bay for small boat sailing. Tho Junior and sailing programs
turned out many accomplished sailors, one of whom won the silver
medal in one-man boats in the summer Olympics. Anyone was welcome
to participate in the junior division sailing program or to join
the Club, with no exceptions or requirements. No one was turned
down during the 24 years he had been a member.
Councilmentber. Renzel asked about the current dues of the Yacht
Club, and the membership fee.
Mr. Cohan said the dues were $90 annually. The membership fee of
$400 was recently raised from $150 because when joining, a member
participated in the substantial Club savings of over $800 per
member. The savings were earmarked to build a new clubhouse.
Councilmember Renzel said that before the proposal first came to
the Council in August, the Yacht Club voted to seek a lease at
Peninsula marina. The idea was since ab=andoned. She asked about
the Club's plans . for the principal club if they were to operate
the sailing station.
Mr. Cohen said that as stated in CMR:554:4, the Club intended to
remain in its present location for the foreseeable future. The
Club did not at that time have a lease at that location.
Arnie Bergh, 25961 Vinedo Lane, Los Altos Hills, was a Palo Alto
resident for 15 years and was a Yacht Club member. Fremont had
the Lake Elizabeth picnic and sailing area with an extensive
facility with 50 rentable City -owned boats that were used in the
high school to teach sailing, safety and canoeing. They had
converted a swamp into a lake, with up to 3,000 people visiting on
weekends and where the main interest was sailing. His children
were members of the University of California sailing team. His
son had been nominated best sailor in the United States --all
because of the Palo Alto sailing program, which was available to
members and non-members. The program was important to him. The
City should consider having a facility with or without the Club.
The City had a facility on hand, and could make a beautiful
facility to teach children sailing and for people to visit.
Looking at water had a psychological calming influence. The City
should build a park where people could go to look at the water.
Lynn Torin, 721 Ensign Way, was the president of the League of
Women Voters. The League endorsed safeguards to preserve and
protect the natural quality of the Bay. It supported a total
understanding of the ecology of the Baylands before ,any additional
construction there was considered. The economic implications were
also of concern --the construction, liability and maintenance costs
to the City of the proposed development.
Lynn Tennefoss, 2053 Princeton, #3, was the Managing Director of
the Santa Clara Valley Audubon Society located on Park Boulevard.
The Society worked for many years to preserve habitat and the Palo
Alto marshes, The Baylands were a model. Placing the structure
only a little bit over the marsh would be disruptive. The
boardwalk over the mud flats would disrupt the flocks of shore
birds coming in on the low tide. The BCDC recommendations
strongly urged that the site not be considered because the project
threatened to destroy or disturb valuable habitat and was on or
near wetlands. It would disturb wildlife, including several
endangered species. There were reasonable alternatives, which the
Society urged the Council to look at before considering the site.
Counci l.ember Woolley asked what those alternatives were.
Ms. Tennefoss said the best altef aitive_would be to place the site
closer to the boat ramp, as at present.
5 3.0 7
12/10/84
Councilmember Woolley believed that was "near."
spoke of "on or near" the wetlands.
Ms. Tennefoss
Ms. Tennefoss said it was an impacted area, but the view of the
Baylands was not. It was closer to the edge and the parking lot,
which already disturbed the marsh.
Councilmember Witherspoon said some objected to the piers and
walkways going across the wetlands, but people and the wildlife
did not seem to object to. the piers and catwalks around the Inter-
pretative Center or alone; the PG&E lines. Any intrusion of man in
the Baylands was artificial, but there had to be a compromise.
She understood the Audubon Society believed the catwalks were
worthwhi l e to allow people to see the _ wetlands and the marshes,
She did not understand the distinction oetween the catwalk of the
Interpretive Center and that of the proposed pier, vis-a-vis their
impact on wildlife.
Ms. Tennefoss distinguished between the catwalks already in place
and the proposed ones. If the Interpretative Center was proposed
when BCDC was more active and certain permits for a water- depend-
ent site were needed, it might have been more difficult to place
the Interpretative Center there. People now had ample opportunity
to see wildlife, but the benefits and costs had to be weighed.
Adding catwalks would not increase enjoyment incrementally.
People could now get close by going to the parking lot and it was
unnecessary to go out over the waterway as almost as much could be
seen from the shore.
Fabian Pease, 838 Esplanade Way, came to the area six years ago,
was a 17 -year member of the Sierra Club, and sailed out of Palo
Alto for three years. The South Bay waters were an unusually
attractive area for recreational boating. It was a large, rela-
tively protected area with fairly predictable winds. He was a
skipper of a sailing fleet, and said it was not necessary For
those who enjoyed the wetlands and those who enjoyed small boat
sailing to be in. confrontation. He hoped they could continue to
have access to the recreational resource without upsetting either
party and that the last remaining access to the area was not
denied.
Katharyn McCann, 783 Garland Drive, wanted to save the Palo Alto
wild life refuge. She regretted that those who wanted to preserve
the already dedicated Baylands constantly appeared before the
Council because, as soon as one threat was solved, another
appeared. It was inappropriate to place a : sailing station, a
building and a walkway on dedicated parklands. The proposal came
from a private club, not from the general public. They already
had a clubhouse on public lands. If the intrusion was granted,
she wondered what the Club would ask for next. The Baylands was a
refuge for birds. and other wildlife.
Mary Hal 1 esy, 1246 Emerson Street,studied in 1968 to be a docent.
in Oakland, and the only placethey could meet was in Palo Alto.
In 1970, she joined the league of Wolen Voters and studied the
Baylands and in 1972, the Environmental Volunteers was formed to
take children out to the Baylands. She taught Environmental Edu-
cation at Hidden Villa :since 1970, and all of the volunteers and
students were taken to the Baylands. She helped reestablish the
Faber Tract in 1983, and a dump site for the dredging spoils of
the harbor. The high tides were December 22 and 23 around noon,
and she urged people to go out and see how the children enjoyed
it.
Bob Moss, 4010 Orme, was concerned about the proposed building on
the marshlands, and noted. the City Attorney's evaluation of
a gift -
of public funds by allowing a. private entity to take public park-
land for its own use. When Lucie Stern donated the facility, she
donated the scout facilities as a condition. .The private use was
balanced by a significant public. good. The Yacht Club did not
make a similar generous gift. The marshland was significantly
different from an urban park, and one had to be cautious about
5 3 0 8
12/10/84#
As CogiOgg
allowing private construction in an ecologically unique and ir-
replaceable area. A 3,000 square foot building needed sanitary
facilities, and the expense of running a sewer to the sewage plant
should be considered. He was surprised the Yacht Club asked for
the facility. Their June 27, 1984 letter stated the harbor was
almost unusable as it was silted to a degree that precluded its
use by the smallest sailboats except for two hours on the high
tide during daylight hours. The City was asked to put a private
facility in a sensitive public park when under the best conditions
it could only be used for sailing a few hours a day, He found
neither rational grounds nor public benefit for the private use of
public parkland and urged the suggested proposal not be adopted.
RECESS FROM 9:30 p.m. TO 9:45 p.m.
Nancy Holmes 843 Moana Court, read a letter from Florence La
Riviere. The BCDC letter of August 1, 1984 clarified why the pro-
posed site should not be approved, and she wondered why the site
was still unchanged. The Council was visionary, which was vital
in the Baylands. Mountain View wasted large sums on the Shoreline
Park project because of unknown changes in water channels and sil-
tation patterns. The Charleston slough was no longer a source of
major tidal flow, and other changes made it vital that expert
analysis of water circulation and siltation be made before any
substantial development predicated on sailable depths occur.
Staff knew that. Before public funds were expended, alternatives
should be explored. The City had a junior sailing program in the
Redwood Yacht harbor, which was much safer. An electric hoist was
necessary only for larger racing boats. The existing launching
ramp was adequate for small boats, and she referred to the other
reasons given in the August 20, 1984 Council meeting.
Paul Covec, 1595 Castilleja, said he and his wife instructed in
the Junior Sailing program for two years. They revitalized the
program, and the participants grew from five to. 30, with others
turned away. There was a vital interest in young people to par-
ticipate. The Redwood City program was open only to those aged 16
years or older. The Yacht Club took children aged 9 through 16,
and his 9 and 12 -year olds enjoyed the Baylands facility one week,
the sailing program the next. He hoped to preserve the facility.
The proposed station was necessary because the harbor was silted
to the point where it was difficult to conduct the program.
People were asking for a tasteful facility, not one unharmonious
or dropped in the middle of a marsh, and he agreed. It was up to
the City to do it tastefully.
Lou Fein, 1540 Oak Creek Drive, a 29 -year resident, said there
were costs to locate the facility at the site and benefits to
some. The costs outweighed the benefits for him, and he believed
Council should reject the proposal.
George Moore, 828 La Jennifer -Way, a Palo Alto native, enjoyed the
Baylands, looking at the birds and watching the sailboats, which
were a part of the City. He had .not sailed since he was a teen-
ager, but found sailing and clapper rains compatible. The design
of the station as now conceived was unwise, and he hoped Council
could find a way to make the sailboats, birds and marsh compat-
ible.
Linda Elkin, 2040 Tasso Street, represented the Committee for
Green Foothills, and said it was urgent to maintain.. the Baylands
as a habitat. She was a frequent visitor . to the Palo Alto marsh-
lands, and previously lived on an East Coast marshland. It was a
rich and fragile habitat --rich as a` nursery for the food chain and
endangered species, but fragile because the birds would move away
as activity. increased. If the cord grass was disturbed, it des-
troyed the stability of the marsh. On the East Coast the shape of
the marsh changed by people walking over it to their boats as it
changed erosion patterns. The marshland was part of the five per-
cent of original California marshes remaining in the area. She
Councilmember- Renee', asked the record to reflect that Ms. Elkfnd
made a slide presentation.
5 3 0 9
12/10/84
As Corrected
2/11/85
hoped the heal thy srarsh would riot be disturbed by catwal ks. The
Committee for Green Foothills believed the Palo Alto marshes to be
of irreplaceable value and urged that construction to compromise
the integrity and viabfl ity of the marsh not be approved.
Co unc i l m ember Wool l ey said the Bayl ands wer e a unique wildlife- and
recreational resource, and she desired to accommodate both uses so
they could co -exist compatibly. Regarding the lack of use of the
harbor, the inner harbor was usable only a few hours per day, so
access to _the outer harbor was important as. it could be used: for a
longer period. The current ramp was at the point where sil tation
was the greatest, and the pier was pl annex! . to ' extend over the
water to,. the main channel so, that. boats lowered into it would have
access most of the time. The BCDC letter of August 1, 1984 said
that "Fill should be permitted for marina facilities that must be
in or over the Bay." No. fill was. discussed, only pilings over the
Bay. The letter also said . that frequent dredging should be
avoided. , Everyone- agreed , which was the reason the pier and hoist
were. proposed. Page 4 of the letter said a club should not be
l ocated there, . but a boat launch facit ity and adjacent hoist
should be. adequate to launch dry stored boats, which. led : her to
bet ieve the BCDC would not oppose. such a .facility.
MOTION: Cousciiersaber Woolley revved, seconded by Titherspooa,
that:
1. The Council go on record as being i*terestwe in pursuing and
eacasragiog-- .the l •catloa of. a: small boat wiring %tattoo . in
the vicinity of the compacted :area soar theiaaachisg, ramp;
2. The Consc i l direct staff : to work _with th tare" Yacht : Cl rob tr : draft
a specific piss a 4 Iretorn to Council;
3. The Corracll , in so doing, gives the following "'sidelines:
a) Location:
Marshland net be Aped- for belldisgs, possible storage
area, or -parking;
b) .prellmiaarr Costs and Feedlot flao:
Space raquirepents ,. i*c1ud.1*g the interior rooms e_f
balldings,- be. specified;
Fre11*1.0,rr PI!! -142!....9.1.41E0.1121
6.eara ateo 01 public access; --
. Iecroati err logs.;
Asssigma*ot ofAlabil Icy;
S is fff s
Councilaember Witherspoon was amazed., after the many years of dis-
cussion, et the lack of mutual understanding. She was confused : by
the essuspti4ns of the: RUC in::re_sponse • to Co.rancilaember.. Renzel s
letter.. Her letter did not mention many items the BCDC went t into
at length, such as a-maarina, docks, fill , dredge spoils or a dike
. across San,= Fraoctsqui,to-.:creek4,.. Th0.4acht Ci,.ubAetter also( did, mot
mentien them.; She assumed .000C. 004 4140 confuse4 tabrout = the , pro-
posal and. E e4, -final cooed ;e di. .1441oo-on,exec t1;y aodrat:,,fit: >was..: A
3,000:squere foot building w s exce_s lve.: koorashboat Aveutd not
need more room than a car, and. a two -car garage- was 800 square
feet. She. knew of H.o• sail in9 ..,fac.il,lty: wl,th.: the .1 ux.ur;y..of.-a o-
foot catwalk or pier to the; hoist. Six to eight feet .geld: AlIow
One- trailer at a time.
Couacilaeober Cobb bel ie*ed it . should be possible to make sailing
com-patibl a :with - rigorouslyh•presery ing_ the environment. He hoped
d way could:: be .found for_ the: di fferedt Uses to 1 ire:: together, . He
id not bet leve there sham! d be. construction. on ::the proposed -a1 tae
5 3 1 0
12/10/84
He bel ieved the existing ramp should be :onsldered to find out if
the program should be continued there or close to it. He sug-
gested the motion be modified to pick up that flavor. He cared
deeply for the environment and wanted it preserved, but there were
many interests in town, including sail ing, A part of the magic of
the community was the way interests were made compatible and mutu-
ally supportive. It was possible to achieve that in the area if
all worked together.
Counc11r'aember Bechtel agreed with the concept of finding a facil-
ity to which children could ride their bicycles, lease or store a
small boat and get it into the water. One had to be 16 years old
and drive or be driven to the Redwood City facility. She had
probl ems with the motion as i t assumed there would be some kind of
a building, and she was not sure the Council was ready for that
step. It also assumed that staff would work with the Yacht Club
to draft a specific plan. She suggested exploration of the vari-
ous options and alternatives to providing the facility, and in-
stead of making the motion as specific , the City could operate its
own facil ity, which might be a launching ramp, or a concession as
at other County facilities, or staff might be directed to explore
the various options and costs. The Winter Club proposed ice-
skating, and the Council provided a loan because of the group
pushing* it. The Yacht Cl ub al so offered to provide a service, and
Council should not jump ahead without first ascertaining whether
it wanted a facil ity, and if so, what kind.
SUBSTITUTE NOTION: Cosecilmeaber Bechtel moved', seconded by
Baltzell, that staff explore providing some kind of small boat/
sailing passibil sties OP the nen-marshlands areas adjacent to the
waterway, mad determine whether there was a need/demand.
Mayor Klein agreed with the approach of the substitute motion
because he believed _ Councilmeater ..Woolley's motion went further
than he wanted to go. He was concerned that Council had jumped in
the middle of the issue, probably as a result of the long history
of disputes in the Bayl ands, and he preferred to put those dis-
putes aside and not get into the ultimate questions, such as if
the City was destroying sailing 0r the marshes, when he did not
believe either was the case. The need was based on assumption,
and while he bel ieved sailing was fun, the -Council was obliged to
determine the need. Further, he bel ieved Council needed to get a
handle on the costs. He recognized that if Council decided on a
facility, there would be a range . of costs, but Council needed to
know how many intended to use the facility, and the cost for pro-
viding the service. He supported the idea that City staff prepare
the report and was concerned about the co -equal status given the
Yacht Club in the earlier motion, which was inappropriate when
considering public land and facil sties. The Yacht Club was a
resource and should be consulted, : but he bel ieved that in order to
ensure dispa tionate, impartial advice, it rust be the staff's
report. If that meant spending money on consultants, he believed
it was important for the City to spend the money. Given the sen-
sitive nature of the issue, the publ is must be assured the Council
received advice from people without a vested interest in the final
answers.
A NONE`i T: Mayer Klein mowed that the first criteria be that
staff shall detarmiee the assn/ sad far sick a small boat sail-
ing station in the area, end explore the costs of such a facility
recognizing that the cost estimate might be a fairly ride rang*.
Mafia AND SECOND AGREED TO INCLUDE MATO* MLE Ili"S LANGUAGE INTO THE
MANN NOTION
Mayor Klein asked When staff intended to report Oick to Council
Mr. Zaner said staff would do a needs analysis first, Atilt Coun-
cil should realize the impracticality- of assueing that a sailing
station would be 'bull t= inboard of the eeisting ramp. The ramp
t 3 1 1
12/10/84
silted up as .did ever;yi rig from the ramp inward toward the harbor.
A sail ing station could not be built from the ramp inboard without
dredging, and the BCDC permit required the City to stop dredging.
If staff was directed to do an analysis of a sailing station, the
proposed location outboard .of the ramp was unacceptabl e to the
Council, and look inside the .ramp, dredging was required. BCDC
said that could not be done, and staff needed Council direction to
go to BCDC to see about the possibility of a permit amendment.
Councilm,ember Bechtel _believed the thrust of her motion was that
any facility should not be on marshlands. As she reviewed recent
aerial photos,_ ;it showed the least siltation -closest to the. pres-
ent ramp. If her information was. incorrect, it would be appropri-
ate for staff to report back later..
Councilmember...Sutorius .supported the cautions and itemizations
provided by, the League of ;Women Voters regarding sensitivity to
the ecology and the costs and liability concerns, and. believed
those concerns were compatible with the position advocated by Mr.
Moore. In either the Main motion or substitute motion, he needed
clarification about how staff might operate in respect to County
Lease. He -asked if. staff heard anything .. in either; motion to
restrict their i.nvestigatioft and considerations into proposal s
that might require a rewrite of the lease.
Mr. Zaner said no.
Councilmember Sutorius clarified that staff did not consider the
County Lease as being any type of prohibition.
Mr. Zaner saw no impediment by the County Lease, It expired
1986.
Councilmember. Sutarius understood :.the spirit of avoiding any kind
or favored position for the Palo Alto Yacht Club, but considered
the Yacht Clubt to be an important resource with expertise and
motivation in the area. He believed a similar situation. was rec-
ognized in -conjunction with the hostel subject on the Arastra
lands wtere information, adv ice and strong proposal was taken from
a particul er organization that wanted to operate a hostel. on the
Arastra property. Council found it difficult to accept their
experti se even though the City would be the beneficial party. He
hoped the appl ication of. the amendment would in no way avoid the
wisdom, experience and enthusiasm - offered by. the Yacht Club as
input: into thedevelopment of a proposal . _
Mayor Klein bel ieved Councilmember Sutorius' understanding was
correct. There was nothing explicit in the amendment- and Council
member E Bechtel' s substitute *lotion made a normal .direction to
staff who would use those chief resource people in the community
for hel p in preparing the report.. He cl arifled it was the staff' s
report to the Council , who expected the report to be leper ti el and
not ;one .of advocacy as tte\eight be if in .another situation., _. ;
1 .
Councilmember - Cobb: ;did cnot. _want _to see the . proponents .<of, sailing
closed out. He asked if the present motion, as. int+ r.pr'eted by
staff, would provide for an active role for the Yacht Club in
hel ping to come up with the answers:. to the questions raised.
Mr. Zaner said yes.
Co unc ll i,ea ber Cobb . asked i f that ac_titre : role would be_ anal agog s to
the examples deal t wi th by C.ouncit over the _post couple of . years,
i .e . the Win ter Club to preserve, ice skating in Palo Alto, or the
Palo Al to Tennis Cl ub to getc the courts, resurfaced,. .
Mr.. Zaner ::believed the situations were stall ar.
S 3 1 2
12/10/84
Cuunc;ilmember Cobb wanted the Yacht Club people involved actively
and vigorously, and to see the results of their participation.
Vice Mayor Levy was satisfied with the direction to lay out a
policy of exploring the possibility of continuing to have small
boat sailing and a small boat sail ing facility, but in a way which
would not compromise the- integrity of the marsh. Costs were not
mentioned, and in the memo before the Council , he understood that
incremental capital and operating costs would be borne by the
Yacht Club. He asked if his understanding was correct.
Mr. Zaner said the original proposal by the Yacht Club was that
they wanted permission to build a facil ity, and under those
circumstances, it would be financed by the Yacht Club. There was
a possibility that if the City became interested in the project,
there might be some type of joint financing or operation, but the
original proposal from the Yacht Club was for them to handle the
costs.
Vice Mayor Levy assumed the facility would be available at a fair
cost to all members of the public, and if there were no incre-
mental costs to the City, he was will ing to continue to pursue the
project and did not see a need to return with details of costs.
He was more interested in the detail of the project under those
circumstances. He was troubled by the discussion of "need"
because the subject was not raised in other situations where the
City was not going to bear any cost. For example, there was no
question about the need for a youth hostel ---the assumption was
that a need existed, and since there would be no incremental costs
to the City, there was no need to establish the need. The City
would not be out-of-pocket any funds if it turned out there was no
usage of the facility. He reminded the Council it would be making
a capital .contribution of a piece of property worth close to
$1,000,000, and agreed to do so without any discussion of need.
arty, in the ice skating project, even though the City lent
funds to the Winter Club, it did not discuss the need. The fact
that ice skating existed for many years in Palo Al to and was used
frequently was satisfactory of the need and .because there were no
incremental funds from the City, Council did not believe it was
necessary. He asked how staff would go about establishing the
need.
Mr. Zaner said staff could do some surveys. They could make use
of the Yacht Club 'and Harbor Association membershi p to. ascertain
the interest, and the Recreation Department could check with simi-
lar sized cities harbors and get some idea what kind of activity
there was in the, community. Much like any recreation service,
need would vary dependent upon marketing. If staff marketed
sail ing, it would get many sailors. There was always a level of
need in the community and staff had to find out what it was, and
could increase it if it worked hard.
l€1lAMEdT: Vice Mayor Levy moved that staff be aethsr#zed to
rsra its stay on the basis that there weld be minimal ine re-
tal capitol or operating costs to the City in connectioa with
the facility.
Vice Mayor Levy said he used the, word incremental" because.. he was
unaware to what degree the City was already expending funds in
that area if it was expending funds, he wanted to be aware of
what moneys would be spent over and above what was already being
sPont. He wanted . to see a sailing facility-, but wanted. to see it
funded by the users and not the City.
AMENDMENT FAILED Felt LACK OF A SECOND.
Councileember Woolley asked if finding out how many boats were out
on the lake at Shoreline Park or at Yasona during sailing season
was the kind Of thing Mayor.k1ein intended with his language.
5 3 1 3
12/10/84
Mayor Klein did not bel ieve that was beyond staff, and the methods
outl fined by Mr. Zaner were appropriate.
Councilmember Counc ilmember Woolley said there were many lake -type situations to
be surveyed .
Mayor Klein was taken aback by the statement of the gentleman run-
ning the youth program that there were only 20 ,children involved,
and after an effort to the,, schools they got up to 30 or 40.. That
was a lo.w number, and to, him, the needs assessment went hand in
hand with the costs. Setting aside the environmental problems
which. were an important category, it was a recreation .program and
any recreation program must be reviewed from an economic stand-
point, That was . reviewed . in the ice skating program, and if a
program was used by than many people then maybe it was worthwhile
for the City to invest some money in:- it. .If: there .was ,a :program
only used by a handful of people, then there might be- a different
assessment. He believed the. Council needed data' as all too often
in the past, Council dealt in emotion.
Councilmember Woolley clarified that Mayor Klein was thinking of
the category of instructional sailing and recreational sail ing.
Mayor Klein said that was correct.
Councilmember Woolley said it was "instructional" sailing Mayor
Klein was hearing about and that program was limited primarily by
the number of available boats,
Mayor Klein said he was not prejudging anything. .He wanted to see
same analysi s about what the City could expect from its money or
property.
Councilmember Woolley asked if the, survey should include other
fec11 sties provided . by the places surveyed and the costs to the
user, how long it was avail able during . the year, etc..
Mayor Klein said staff should regard that as part of the , needs
assessment.
Councilmember Woolley asked if by "marshland," Councilmember
Bechtel referred to the main portion of the marshland which was
known : as the ",Harriet Mundy Marsh," or nether she .inc1 tided the
area between the edge of the parki no • lot and the beginning . of the
gaud. She believed any kind of. a hoist on a pier would have to go
across that "fringe," and if the fringe was to be eliminated, all
that was left was the concrete of the launching • ramp, and she was
not sure that was a possibility.
Councilmember Bechtel believed that :type of detail would have to
be worked out later with staff.
Mr. Zaner said if staff was told to stay away from the . marshland which meant it had to stay outboard of the ramp, then Councli
eliminated all of. the places that did not require dredging, and
dredging would be the hano :up. Setting aside need, there would
have to be an: engineering analysis to determine the area where no
dredging would be requi red:, and if those turned out to be marsh-
land, the Council's motion would prohibit those locations and
staff would again be looking at the area inboard of the ramp.
Councilmember Bechtel was concerned about protecting the fregii e
marsh . grasses and to be able ; to- ,do .so without further . dredging
s one speaker: pointed o*t, was king along on court grass caused
damage. The. questien was hor;:$o design something. so£ .that, At, would
not do. damage . She under -stood` staff's concern, and the compacted
area - the parking area --was the limit.
5 3 1 4
12/10/84
Counc ilmember Renzel said there was no question that large ex-
panses of marsh were of a much higher wildlife value than the
smaller fringe areas. If the City pursued any type of sailing
hoist, it had to traverse somewhere in the marsh. Traversing an
eight -foot wide bend was a lot less harmful than traversing and
cuttiny a major expanse of marsh in hel f which provided important
feeding and nesting habitat. She believed there was a clear dif-
ference between the types of marsh, which was not to say she did
ncit put a high degree of value on marshy fringes where they
existed, but she bet ieved it was clear that to get to the water in
the vicinity of the Palo Alto Harbor, one had to cross marsh some-
where. To minimize the effects (and the closer to the ramp the
less impact in the general area because there was already a break
in the marsh at that point) , if it could be located close to the
launching ramp, which appeared to be one of the narrower parts of
the mud flat, it would be close to the channel and would not
create a new break of any size, since it would al ready be adjacent
to a break in the marsh. As she understood Council in ember
Bechtel's motion, it suggested the vicinity of the ramp, which
would have the least impact of any proposal that would have to
cross the marsh.
Councilraeaaber Bechtel bel ieved that i f the substitute motion
clarified "minimal" intrusion upon the marsh so that the fringes
between the compacted area and the navigatable area, she asked if
that would be acceptable.
Mayor Klein said the third paragraph of the motion said to explore
small boat facilities on non -marshland, and he understood the
proposed language to be to a explore small boat facilities with
minimal impact on mar shl ands.':
MAKER AMN SECOND OF MAIM MOTION CRAMS LANGUAGE OF MAIN )LOTION
TO REELECT "VERY MINIMAL IMPACTS ON THE MAkSMLANii AREAS..." RATHER
THAN "NOM -MARSHLAND AREAS.
Council member Renzel supported the substitute motion and believed
it made sense to first address the threshold questions and then.
explore the more detailed aspects of any proposal to come out of
1t. She bel #eyed it was a good sol ution, and that staff heard the
Council's comments and would be sensitive to the nature of the
area in returning with any new proposals. It was a fragil e area,
and the area proposed in the report was totally inappropriate for
many reasons. It was a major expanse of marsh being interfered
with in that location and would be met with considerable opposi-
tion. .
Couocilmember Witherspoon felt the impactson the marsh would come
out of exploring and determining the demand and type of facilities
needed to supply that demand. She saw a vast difference between a
catwalk of six feet across a sand f1 at to get to the open water and
a building --whether it was 800 square feet or 3,000 square feet.
She assweed anything out there would halve to have pilings because
it would be much less disruptive to any flow of water or wildlife.
She saw a building having tooccur on the impacted fill :land, but
a catwalk could go out over the tidal fl ats to the deep water.
She believed motion directed staff to provide the Council with
al terhati vts.
Vice Mayor Levy agreed with the substitute motion, and understood
that staff_ would look to see What the City could do to = have the
most minimal impact on the marsh and he desired it would also
have einimal cost impacts. He asked whether Mayor Klein implied
that if a needs study determined as fair need or desire within the
City of Palo Alto for., a recreational program involving . sailing, he
would then consider City funding to the degree a need was found.
It was a good idea for the City to have sailing, but it was some-
thing that could and should be self -funding without using City
funds for either the capital or operating costs.
S 3 1 S
12/10/84
As Corrected 2/11/85
Mayor Klein said nothing was ruled out. He wanted to find out the
facts before making a determination.
Councilmember Woolley said Mayor= Klein's incorporated language
included a cost range, -and she asked if it was his understanding
that what was included in the cost range depended on the needs
survey and could basically be a launching facility without a
building to the point where it was a building with amenities.
Mayor Klein believed so. Councilmember Witherspoon made comments
along those lines, and it appeared appropriate that the intensity
of the facilities created depended on the anticipated use. He
hoped Council received data that would be helpful in making those
determinations.
Councilmember Sutorius understood the distinction made by Vice
Mayor Levy with respect to the funding and ongoing costs situa-
tion, but was satisfied with the nature of the motion and the fact
that it could evaluate possible recreational programs that would
involve City participation as well as City support.
SUBSTITUTE MOTION PASSED unanimously, Fletcher absent.
ITEM #9, SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT PLAN REVIEW (PWK 5-5) (CMR:605:5)
Councilmember Renzel asked how Council was to proceed.
Mr. Zaner said the easiest way was to get comments from Council -
members, which would be forwarded to the Solid Waste Board or the
technical advisory committee. It would ultimately return to
Council for final approval.
Councilmember Renzel said page 1I-8 spoke to Shoreline Park and
about eight or nine lines down it said that "San Francisco's waste
was imported to bring subgrade lands, subject to flooding, up to
sufficient elevation to develop the park." She believed that
should be described as salt ponds and marshes rather than subgrade
lands. Subgrade was literally below grade, which was okay, but it
sounded as if they were substandards lands when they were valuable
salt ponds and marshes. Regarding page 11I-37, having experienced
the solid waste management group's problem with public involve-
ment,.she pointed out that different publics participate at dif-
ferent.times. People who understood the garbage problem or "solid
waste problem" participated from the beginning of the pr !cess with
much interest and understanding of all the problems and alterna-
tive solutions, and as the proposal narrowed, there was a differ-
ent public. The early formal public involvement had to be more
than just people who attended meeting. It needed to be public
information with involvement by the press and a general u eder-
standing of the problems being faced, the limitations and the
solution. It sounded good to develop early formal public involve-
ment, but that public was different from the one for example that
ultimately caused the demise of the Solid Waste Management
Authority because they looked at garbage in their backyard. On
page IV -30, at the bottom, it suggested that expansions of
baylands sites were difficult because of laws prohibiting the use
of baylands for that type of usage. She commented that there now
a much greater public awareness of the value of those lands to the
climate and general environment in the Bay Area, and she believed
that was important to add because it was not only the laws, but
the public's sentiment with respect to the issue.
Councilmember Cobb believed Councilmember Renzel correctly identi-
fied the absolute touch-tone problem in the document. It was an
impressive document, but the reality was a serious political prob-
lem which required that the entire public clearly understand that,
if something was not done by around the year 2000, the City would
be swimming i n solid waste. He did not believe the public under --
stood that some type of decision had to be made. He was bothered
by the lack of attention to the critical problem and how the
5 3 1 6
12/10/84
As Corrected
2/11/85
political problems would be solved as the timeframes started to
compress. He believed there was a good understanding of the tech-
nology of solid waste, but where it should be put was an unsolved
political problem. It requi red a massive educational effort to
make the publ is understand that we must come to grips with it one
way or another, and it would be in someone's backyard. That ele-
ment was missing from the plan, and as he looked at the 15 year
timeframe, the process must begin early. He did not believe the
plan dealt with that, and it was not too early now because the
poi i ticel process was sl ow and difficult. The plan should be more
honest in facing up to the fact that the political aspects of the
sol id waste management would make or break the document and all it
purported to do.
Councilmetaber Bechtel was the Chairperson of the Santa Clara
County Intergovernmental Council and as such, was al so the Chair-
person of the Solid Waste Planning Board, which would ultimately
approve the document it final form when it returned from all the
cities. In addition to the Technical Advisory Committee, there
toes a Citizens Advisory Committee, which was an interesting com-
mittee comprised of members of the league of Women Voters as well
as technical people. She believed the Chair was a member of the
Tri County Apartment Association, but they also had members from
some of the most actively involved neighborhoods. She agreed with
the comments made by both Councilmembers Cobb and Renzel that as
soon as one got beyond the generalized form of the plan to the
specifics of involving the area, the problems arose. The plan was
specifically written to meet State requirements and to make it so
general that no one would object. She agreed the probl ems would
arise when they got to a specific location or area.
Councilmember Cobb said as an engineer, he understood that proj-
ects had lead times. He look at the different cities doing dif-
ferent level s of things with different kinds of restrictions which
concerned him. Engineering projects of the type implicit in the
plan -1 ike converting waste to energy --took many years to get
built. If one started at the end of the process, which was a
plant that did what you wanted plus all of the various satellites
impl icit in the process and going backwards to build the plant, do
the engineering, get the permits, etc., it 33s a chain measured in
years ---not months, but ahead of that was the political problem.
Councilsoember Renzel said the .3ubject of solid waste was no picnic
for staff members, and with anything more than six =months' lead
time, they would avoid the issue if possible. Palo Alto City
staff was diligent for many years trying to pursue solutions, but
there was a tendency to pick the easy one rather than try and find
the longer term solution.
tom► ACTIOM TAKEN
ADJOURNMENT
Council adjourned at 11:05 p.m.
ATTEST:
APPROVED
1
5 3 1 1
12/10/84