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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1985-08-26 City Council Summary MinutesITEM CITY COUNCIL MINUTE; CITY OF hit t\ iiITO Regular Meeting Monday, August 26, 1985 PAGE Oral Communications 6 2 2 3 Consent Calendar 6 2 2 3 Referral 5 2 2 3 Item #I, Proposed Sidewalk Encroachment and 5 2 2 3 Pushcart Review Criteria & Procedures - Refer to Policy and Procedures Committee Action Item #2, Firefighter Physical Fitness Examination/ 6 2 2 3 Evaluation Item #3, Electric Line Clearing 6 2 2 3 Item #4, Final Subdivision Map - 2701 El Camino 6 2 2 3 Real Agenda Changes, Additions and Deletions Item #5, City -Wide Ordinance Architectural Review Board Review o Construction on Substandard R-1 Lots Requiring New Home 6 2 2 3 6 2 2 3 Item #6, Library Computer System 6 2 2 4 Item #7, Commercial Refuse Area Fee Analysis 6 2 2 6 Item #8, Request of Councilmembers Cobb, Sutorius and Woolley re Proposal for Ordinance Mandating Personal Injury Liability :Insurance Coverage for City Contractors Operating School Buses Ite #9, Request of Vice Mayor Cobb and Councilmember Klein re Discussion of Oates for Council. Meetings re CATY Adjournment at 9:30 p.m. 6 2 3 6 6 2 3 9 6 2 4 1 Regular Meeting August 26, 1985 The City Council of the City of Palo Alto met on this date in the Council Chambers, 250 Hamilton Avenue, at 7:30 p.m. PRESENT: Cobb, Fletcher, Klein, Levy, Sutorius, Woolley., ABSENT: Bechtel, Renzrl , Witherspoon ORAL COMMUNICATIONS None. CONSENT CALENDAR NOTION: CouncflMember Fletcher moved, seconded by Klein, approval of the Consent Calendar. Referral ITEM #1, PROPOSED SIDEWALK ENCROACHMENT AND PUSHCART REVIEW CRITERIA AND 'PROCEDURES - R ER O POLICY AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE (P 2-5) (CY R:486:S) Action ITEM #2, FIREFIGHTER PHYSICAL FITNESS EXAMINATION/EVALUATION (SAF 4) (CMR:479:5) Staff recommends Council authorize the Mayor to sign the contract with the Palo Alto YMCA for fiscal year 1985-86. AGREEMENT YMCA ITEM #3, ELECTRIC LINE CLEARING (PWK 2-5) (CMR:481:5) Staff: recommends Council authorize the Mayor to execute a contract with Arbor Tree Surgery for $246,223.35. AWARD OF CONTRACT Arbor Tree Surgery ITEM #4, FINAL SUBDIVISION MAP - 2701 EL CAMINO REAL (PLA 3-1) (CMR: 486: 5 Staff recommends the City approve the final map. NOTION PASSED unanimously, Bechtel, Renzel , Witherspoon absent. AGENDA CHANGES, ADDITIONS AND DELETIONS Vice Mayor Cobb and Councilmemb r Klein added Item #9, Discussion of Council meetings reCATV. ITEM #5, CITY-WIDE ORDINANCE RE+UIRING ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD (CMR : 4g7 : 5 i Di rector of Planning and Community Environment Ken Schreiber said regarding the status of the two building permit applications, the permit for the house at 3810 Whi tsel l was issued; the permit for 4293 Wilkie Way was not. Those plans were still out for redesign and, as of late that afternoon, had not been resubmitted. Mayor Levy e l ari i ed eegardl ess of whether the ordinance passed, the Planning Commission would consider the matter In its review of substandard lots. Mr. Schreiber said yes. MOTION: Councilmember Fletcher moved approval of the City-wide ordinance requiring Architectural Review Board (ARB) review of new home construction on substandard R-1 lots. ORDINANCE entitled "ORDINANCE OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY IrritrATITTLTO REQUIRING DESIGN REVIEW PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 16.48 OF THE PALO ALTO MUNICIPAL CODE FOR ALL NEW CONSTRUCTION ON SUBSTANDARD LOTS IN R -1 DISTRICTS IN THE CITY OF PALO ALTO. AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY" MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND No action taken. ITEM #6, LIBRARY COMPUTER SYSTEM (HCA 4) (CMR:484:5) City Manager Bill Zaner said Council had seen this particular CIP project before. Staff worked on it for a long time, and went over it at CIP time with Council who had previous memoranda. Director of Libraries Mary ,'f1 Levy, and John Dooley on her staff were both present to answer questions. Staff recommended approval of the contract. MOTION: Councilmember Klein moved, seconded by Cobb, Council approval of the staff recommendation to: 1. Approve a budget amendment of $103,650 to be allocated to the Library Computerization Project, CIP 4,85-13; and 2. Authorize the Mayor to sign a contract awarding the library computer system bid for approximately $455,508 to Dynix, Inc. ORDINANCE 3535 entitled "ORDINANCE OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY 0 PALO ALTO AMENDING THE BUDGET FOR THE . FISCAL YEAR 1985.85 TO PROVIDE AM ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATION FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT NO. 85-13 'LIBRARY COMPUTERIZATION PROJECT" AWARD OF CONTRACT Dynix, Inc. Vice Mayor Cobb referred to previous discussions in the Finance and Public Works (FS°W) Committee two years ago about the cross- over point for the cost of the, project. Now there were additional costs, he asked Ms. Levy what that did to the pay -back period. Director of Libraries Mary Jo Levy said the break-even point was extended for about one and one-half years. Vice Mayor Cobb clarified it was about nine years out. Ms. Levy said yes. Councilmember Sutorius referred to the computer system comparison of bids, and asked about acquisitions and serials on which the Dynix system failed to meet the specifications; the activity and impact. Ms. Levy said the Dynix system, as in many of the other systems* Was in the development of their acquisitions and serials process. 6 2 2 4 8/25/85 The,Library would be able to get an acquisitions and serials pro- cess, but at the time Oynix submitted their bid, it was not fully developed. Those evaluations were based on the bid information. Councilmember Sutorius clarified there would be no increased charge for having the capability. Ms. Levy said that was correct. Councilmember Sutorius was curious as to what activities would have been supported by the funding proposed to be assigned to the cost. He clarified $72,000 would come from 1984-85 and 1985-86 funding which was State sponsored. If the funds were available and not yet assigned to the project, he asked for what activities they would be utilized and what the impacts would be. Ms. Levy said the 1984-85 funds were to be designated for security systems where needed in some of the libraries. By "designated," it was not officially designated. Staff held off until the bids were opened to ensure, everything was okay. The 1985-86 moneys were never secure until the Governor signed the budget into law, so no plans were made for those funds. Councilmember Sutorius clarified the budget was assigned and the funds were available. Ms. Levy said right. Councilmember Sutorius referred to the HP workstations, and said there was discussion about the fact that it was a Honeywell mainframe and there was no compatibility as far as the Dynix system with an HP mainframe, but the HP workstations could be utilized. He did not see workstations identified in the budget, and asked if he was misreading it. Ms. Levy referred to page 9 of the staff report, under "Costs," it was "CRTs, workstations, and peripherals" and the column "Other Vendors," $38,000 included, among other things, workstations. Councilmember Sutorius asked how many HP workstations. Ms. Levy said 16. The $38,000 also included printers and some other miscellaneous items. Councilmember,Sutorius quoted page 8, Item 23 "HP microcomputers - $10,000," and asked if $10,000 was for the 16 HP workstations. Ms. Levy said it was the difference in cost. Mr. Zaner clarified one point to ensure Council was not misled. The earlier question with regard to the acquisitions and serials software and whether there would be an increase to the contract in order to obtain them, the answer to the question was no. However, there might be an additional charge for those at some later date. If there was, staff believed the costs could be Covered within the existing budget and would not return to Council for additional funds. Councilmember Sutorius referred to gage 6, paragraph 3 Of the staff report. The sentence read, "This includes -the potential for library equipment to communicate with City., computers, provided city system configurations. include the technical communications -capacity:to support remote location -$.7_ He queried the .use of the w-ord !potential " and. whether'-- i t was a statement that wad the ,capacity, Or said maybe it could happen dependi ng_ on what was done with the telecommunications system. Mr. Zaner replied i t had the capacity and, degendi ng on how the telecommunications system was built-, Sand the plan was _for it. to be 'compatible, the City wpul d be able .to communicate. 6 2 2 5 8/26/85 Councilmember Sutorius asked about any additional cost to the telecnmmunicatinns configuration system Mr. Zaner said there was no extraordinary cost because of the Dynix system. Councilmember Sutorius supported the proposal because Council had an opportunity to become famIllar with the capabilities, flexi- bilities, and improved customer/client service that it would deliver. lie looked forward to a long time, at -cost installation as bug free as possible. 5 Mayor Levy expressed his appreciation for the excellent work done in Ms. Levy's department and the excellent service the library performed. Mayor Levy clarified the award of contract required five votes, and the budget amendment required a unanimous vote. MOTION PASSED unanimously, Bechtel, Renzel, Witherspoon absent. ITEM #7, COMMERCIAL REFUSE AREA FEE ANALYSIS (UTI 5)(CMR:482:5) Director of Public Works David Adams said the Palo Alto landfill had a limited capacity and staff proposed an increase in fees for large users earlier in the year., The intent was not to raise revenue, but to save the capacity in the landfill and discourage people from using it, or to encourage them to use other landfills. At that time, Council asked staff to take a look at alternative ways of charging, and staff believed the commercial rate rather than the oversize rate previously suggested would be appropriate. Vice Mayor Cobb said one of the items in the staff report indi- cated a lot of fraudulent residency applications, and he queried the penalties for people caught doing it. If no penalties existed, he asked about implementing some to eliminate that part of the probl emn, . City Attorney Diane Lee was unaware of any penalties, but as she pointed out on other occasions, criminal enforcement after the fact was not as satisfactory a remedy as prohibitions which pro- hibited the violation. The same situation would occur if a crimi- nal penalty was provided, and in the subject instance, it would be after the fact. Vice Mayor Cobb clarified that Ms. Lee did not believe imposition of some appropriate fines or penalties would be a,.deterrent. Ms. Lee did not believe, as an exclusive remedy, it was satisfac- tory. If the City had authority to deal with the problem in another way, it was always more effective to do so. She did not mean to discourage the imposition of criminal penalties, but when the City had the power to address the problem in a more straight- forward, direct way, it was more .satisfactory because they did not have to deal through the courts. Councilmember Klein said some believed the rates the l ty would charge if it adopted the proposal were significantly higher than other landfill operations in the area, and he asked if any data was compiled to compare the rates. He asked if other landfill operations in the area had a straight commercial rate such as the. one proposed, and if so, how it compared to the $16 per cubic yard suggested. Mr. Adams deferred to Superintendent of Field Operations Mike Miller for response. It was important to recognize that other landfills which might be compared with Palo Alto's had a much, longer life Ox Mountain and Mountain View were example. 6 2 2 6 8/26/85 Mr. Miller said Ox Mountain had a commercial yardage basic rate, lumping all commercial yardage, which was $4 per cubic yard. and it was a 40 plus year site. San Carlos Transfer Station broke theirs out into about five classifications: Commerical tonnage at a tonnage rate of $33.25; dirt, concrete, and rock was broken out at $33; sheetrock $14 a yard; and mixed construction materials at $6,50 a cubic yard. Councilmember Klein asked how it compared Olen averaged together. Mr. Miller said as far as averages, Palo Alto's proposed commer- cial rate would be established at $16. Councilmember Klein heard some higher and lower figures, and asked if staff had a feel for how Palo. Alto's usage compared; : how much of it was concrete, how much yard clippings, etc. Mr. Miller said Public Works did not have a comparison on the classifications on the breakdown, Councilmember Klein asked about Mountain View. Mr. Miller said Mountain View established rates by size of vehicle, starting with cars, moving up to station wagons, to two - axle vehicles which were all other smaller vehicles, then to three or more axles were large trucks. For nonresident rates, the highest range was three or more axle vehicles at $18 per cubic yard; it dropped down from there for non-resident rates: ° two -axle vehicles were $12 per cubic yard, and station wagons $10.50. Councilmember Klein asked how Palo Alto arrived at the $16 per cubic yard figure, Mr. Miller said prior to arriving at that figure, Public Works studied what adjacent sites charges, and wanted to make it sub- stantial enough to discourage the abuse of people bringing material from outside the community into Palo Alto's landfill. Staff believed that by establishing a rate higher than the sur- rounding sites, those people would be deferred to San Carlos, Ox Mountain, or facilities closer to where the material might be coming from, Councilmember Sutorius referred to the Mountain View nonresident rates, and clarified the resident rate for three or more axles was the same; $18 per cubic yard, but other two -axle vehicles on a resident basis was $4 versus $12 for non-resident. Mr. Miller', said that was correct. Councilmember Sutorius asked about the degree of difficulty involved in a structure that gave some consideration to a *resi- dent" as far as the two -axle vehicle, for instance, \even though it was a business vehicle. Mr. Miller said when staff investigated the clasifications, they tried to figure out a way to show, or describe, or break out com- mercial resident. The problem ws that one could define the resi- dent, but not the material. By establishing the proposed rate, staff hoped to discourage material ..coming from outside the area; and, by setting the one rate structure,, staff hoped to make it stiff enough that people would be inclined to take it to the land- fills in the area where it was generated. Councilmember ._ Sutorius,. appreciated that, but for it to come out of the area, certain of the locale from where it came might be Approximate to 280, and $4 per cubic yard; unseparated, i.e., no worries about a mixed load unless it was something :significant like a- tire, or tree stump which would` have to be pretty large, at $4 a cubic yard and with travel time, it got ``somebody from Los Altos Hills to Ox. Mountain in a. round -trip` situation as fast as 6 2 2 7 8/26/85 they could get to the Palo Alto dump, or within four or five min- utes, and it might be faster, depending on the time of day, to get a round trip to Ox Mountain, at $4 a yard versus a proposed $16 a yard. He agreed the rate structure was a deterrent, but asked if it could eot be less and still discouraging when compared with $4. Mr. Miller said it could be less, but staff did not want to drop it any lower than what adjacent sites charged, otherwise, Palo Alto would stay in its present situation. Prior to July 1st, Palo. Alto was lower than the sites on either side, and a 29 percent increase in business was experienced in 12 months, which inter- preted out to about 225,000 cubic yards. Councilmember Sutorius said there was no doubt it was a lot of material, but Palo Alto intended to equalize the situation by the recent rate changes. Based on what was before Council that evening, it seemed that a single commercial rate at the proposed amount accomplished one objective of reducing the amount of for- eign material, but it did it as a hardship to the Palo Alto opera- tor and, ultimately, it got to the Palo Alto business or resident who paid the person who did the hauling. Councilmember Woolley said the Mountain View fee schedule talked about two -axle and three -axle vehicles. She asked how Mountain View classified a small pickup truck with a trailer behind such as many gardeners used. Mr. Miller slid not know. Councilmember Woolley believed that would be interesting to know, because it was probably one area of concern to Palo Alto commer- cial businesses. Her second question concerned distinguishing between residents and non-residents versus residents and commer- cial. She was sure a lot of thought went into how the man at the gate would know who was who, and asked about the difficulty for the gateperson in deciding whether someone was a resident/ non-resident versus commercial and. resident. Was one decision easier than the other. Mr. Miller said it was always easier to have fewer choices. When a commercial rate applied to both resident and non-resident, one did not have to establish ° if that person was using their vehicle, somebody else's vehicle, and so forth. Presently, the City established three things: Whether it was a resident, a non- resident, or a businessman who was a non-resident in Palo Alto because they were charged the non-resident rate. Councilmember Klein referred to the Mountain View rate structure, which seemed to be the facility with which Palo Alto should compare itself, even considering it had a much longer life. In Mountain View, for nonresidents, station wagons were at $10.50 per yard; other... two -axle vehicles --a station wagon had two axles —were charged $12 per cubic yard; and three or more axle vehicles $18 per cubic yard. He asked if those were some of the key rates considered in setting the proposed rate at $16. Mr. Miller said yes. Councilmember Klein asked why the rate was not set above $16, and whether Palo Alto saw many three -axle vehicles. Mr. Miller said most of -the three -axle vehicles seen were dirt trucks. Councilmember Klein asked how many of those were., seen. 6 2 2 8/26/85 Mr. Miller said it was. hard to guess, but Palo Alto generated ,out 20,000.to 25,000 yards a year of free dirt, which was used for intermediate cover. Councilmember Klein asked if there was a problem with three -axle vehicles. Mr. Miller said for house demolition or anything else, Palo Alto rarely got that size of vehicle. Councilmember Klein said in talking about the nearest facility to Palo Alto, the comparison price was Mountain View's ,two -axle non-resident vehicle at $12 per yard. Mr, Miller said that was correct. Brian Mauck, 2381 Middlefield Road, believed it was unreasonable for City staff to use the San Carlos Transfer Station in any attempt toaverage fees because it was a transfer station -.-not a landfill. The material was trucked over the hill to Ox Mountain. Dirt and rock was $33 a yard because it took a lot of gas to go ovee the hill. A San Mateo resident business person still had the option of driving his vehicle out to the Ox Mountain landfill to dump at a $4 per yard commercial rate. He noted that dry, clear dirt was free at the Palo Alto dump as it was needed for fill. He felt the issue was one of residency, The Palo Alto resident rate should go up to par with the adjacent resident rates at Mountain View and Ox. Mountain. Concerning the abuse indicated by the City staff, a McClenahan vehicle used to be able to run their loads to the Palo Alto landfill as long as they had a person with a Palo Alto driver's licence driving the vehicle, which was no longer the case. Non-resident businesses could no longer use the Palo Alto landfill in that manner. He had clearly stated his concerned in his letter to the Council (on file in the City Clerk's office). He pointed out that about 75 percent of his loads were compost- ible, and if it was not that ivy, pine, and eucalyptus were non- compostible, it would be close to 100 percent. There would be no differentiation., He asked what would happen to the composting program after there was no business use of the dump because there would be no,bust ness use at $16 a yard. Businesses would go to adjacent landfills at Mountain View, Ox Mountain, across the Bay at Durham Road, or to Alviso. It was not feasible for someone to pay $16 a yard. He queried whether the City gardening people still planned to use the composting machine. He was told by staff there was a residency verification program presently in effect He pointed out the potential for curbside abuse by maintenance gardeners outside the community, Nothing kept them from putting a couple of extra bags on their Palo Alto accounts. The curbside was not a viable alternative to him as a tree a and landscape indi- vidual; it was similar to painting a ceiling with a toothbrush, trying to hack a tree down into bags or binding it up into little four -foot sections, There was a lot of refuse generated inside. the Palo Alto community presently taken'. to outside landfills by adjacent area business people. He noticed many Los Altos garbage containers in Palo Alto due to the unavailability of PASCO con- tainers, which was again Palo Alto refuse being taken outside the community. Therefore, he did not feel it was .a legitimate argu- ment to say that Palo Alto businesses operated outside of Palo Alto and brought in refuse to Palo Alto's landfill that was gen- erated outside of Palo Alto. McCl enahan' s said it did, and would do, a lot of work in Palo Alto. That refuse was no longer going to be dumped in the Palo Alto dumps, but taken elsewhere, along with Sun Valley Tree and a lot of other big people. It was a residency issue, and the only fair way to deal with it was to bring the resident rates for Palo Alto business people in . Line with the adjacent .landfills of Mountain View and Ox Mountain, which was $4 a yard. Mayor Levy asked Mr. Hauck how many cubic yards ; of dump material he generated a day. S Mr. Mauck did landscaping and tree work, and when he did land- scaping jobs, there might be a week or so when he did not use the dump. If he cut out an old sod lawn, the sod would go to the landfill. Depending on the size of the lot, it might be ten yards. When. doing tree work straight through the week, he might generate five yards a day. He had a five -yard dump truck. Most of his material was compostible and had been going to the compost area, which he supported. Bill McDonough, 55 Homer Way, operated a hauling, yard clean-up, and pruning business, and generated about five cubic yards a day. The objective was to decrease the volume of material that went into the dump. He worked for people who were busy or physically unable to do yard work, and he took the material created from his work to the dump. The material was generated regardless of the price he charged the customer; it grew regardless of the price charged at the dump. If he had to pay the increase, what might currently be a $40 load for a Palo Alto resident would become a $100 load. He did not see that he could justify such an increase to his customers. He would have to take his debris to another landfill which did not address the problem either. What they had was a geographic problem to which the whole Peninsula was subject. If Palo Alto kept its rates the same as the surrounding landfills, then the operators would take their material to the closest dump. If Palo Alto started a price war, there would still be the same volume of material, but the residents of Palo Alto suffered because they paid that increased cost of gas, etc. incurred in going to another area. Vice Mayor. Cobb asked if Mr. McDonough typically generated material from inside Palo Alto, and whetherhe was a resident. Mr. McDonough said he worked mostly in Palo Alto, but did some jobs outside of town. He was a Palo Alto resident. Hal Roche, 1760 Channing, lived in Palo Alto for 24 years, was semi -retired, and ,had a small tree business with a brush chipper that turned his brush into chips. He dumped about ten yards a week. All of his customers were in Palo Alto, most within a mile or two of his house; therefore, it was strictly Palo Alto material he picked up. To increase the dump fees would add considerably. to the cost of taking down a tree. He used a '59 Chevy truck and did not see how he could drive that any distance to another landfill, but would have to pay the rates and dump in Palo Alto. He was curious as to why- there was no, special rate for compostible materials, because most of his material looked like great compost, but he paid the same dump fee as people who were dumping all sorts of miscellaneous garbage. William E. Murray, 657 Everett Street, was an artist, and lived in Palo Alto for almost 20' years.'. He had always supplemented his income by using the --dump in one way or another. He usually did yard work or sometimes picked up people's garbage and took it to the dump. He went to the dump about once a week for years, and remembered when it cost a quarter. If the dump fees were to be $16a yard, he, and other poor people would find it harder to stay in the place where they grew up. --He supported the proposal sug- gested by Sri an. Mauck. Hewanted. to see. Palo Alto people be dealt with fairly. Yuki Ai zawa, 894 Ames, gardened in Palo Alto for 26 years. Ninety percent of his grass clippings, leaves, etc.-- came from- Palo Alto residents. He worked on, a . volume 'bass s, and the quickest thing was to go.: to the dump., The proposal created_ a hardship for him because he- was trying to raise his prices,. , but outsiders were :going in from San Jose and bidding lower than -he was. -_ He did not understand why - he sholl d be treated -as a nonresident, because eventually i t all ended. yip at the, same place, If the dump did not want the - refuise, he -suggested I t -be i imi ted to Palo Alto residents only..as was the case in Sunnyvale. 6 2 3 0 8/26/85 Vice Mayor Cobb asked whether staff considered the idea of going to a residents -only situation. Someone else mentioned the idea of charging a different rate for compostible materials which sounded interesting. He asked if staff believed they had exhausted their ability to reasonably make a distinction between the residents and non-residents in terms of use, of the dump. Mr. Adams said staff had not considered restricting the landfill to residents only. In terms of compostible material, staff thought of it, and although it would add a little confusion to the gatework, it would be workable. If a resident rate for compost- ible material was set, it would be somewhat above 'the rate of Mountain View. Staff suggested $8 as a possibility; Mountain View charged $6.50. Vice. Mayor Cobb had the impression that many of the small users were people in the kinds of businesses heard from that evening. Lookiryg down the road, Council might be able to solve the problem for an awful lot of residents who were in the business of gardening, and things related largely to burying compostible. materials. He asked if Mr. Adams agreed. Mr. Adams said it seemed that way from the comments received by Mike Miller during the past week. Vice Mayor Cobb said to some extent, the issued seemed to be how hard it was for the people working at the gate to determine resi- dent status. He could not resist thinking how he had to prove whether the people on his various softball teams were residents, all the IDs he had to turn in, but the Recreation somehow dealt with it. He recognized they were dealing in real time, but he asked if it was that hard to get a reasonable proof of residency from people when they came through. It did not strike him that it would be that difficult. Mr. Miller said the City used two criteria: driver's license and, prior to August 1, they had not enforced very rigidly, "or" vehicle registration. The Policy and Procedures said driver's license and vehicle registration, and since August 1, they started. applying hose procedures. The abuses they had were people who went to the DMV and changed the address to a cousin's house, a friend's house, and a business associate's house. Of the 18 fraudulent cases cited in the staff report, two or three proved to be parking lots, a couple of the homes were in the area of North Palo Alto and there were no numbers. The City relied on a utility printout, but the problem with that was it went to the property owner usually aid not to a rental tenant, so a property owner : who did not live in Palo Alto abused. He could give many examples of abuse to vehicle registrations. Vice Mayor Cobb asked whether they also attached vacant numbers toe their driver's licenses. Mr. Miller said yes. All one had to do on a driver's license was line it out and put the new address on the back. Councilmember Woolley asked whether staff considered some kind of a permit for resident commercial users which would_ have to be purchased ahead of, time with a fee to cover• the administration costs as was done with some permits issued by the Police Department. The person who used the dump often for a business would fi ed =i t worthwhile to get the permit and do whatever was necessary to prove they were, in fatty a resident of Palo Altai. Mr, Miller said when staff first started researching the item in - October, permits was their first alternative --a sticker system or permit system of some sort. Staff believed it would beunmanage- able because there would be people who sold their vehicles on a regular basis and administratively it might be a bigger problem than it was worth. 6 2 3 1 8/26/85 MOTION: Councilmember Fletcher moved, seconded by Cobb to adopt staff recommendation that the Municipal Fee Schedule be amended to include the following changes: 1. The new rate name be changed from "oversize" to "commercial"; 2. The commercial rate be charged on all vehicles used in the business of hauling, landscaping, construction, and all other business uses regardless of the size of the vehicle or the load. Compostible materials be charged a rate of $8 per cubic yard; and 3. The criteria for charging the commercial rate will be depen- dent on one or more of the following: Any vehicle larger than a passenger car which displays signege or advertising, has subordinate equipment in, or attached to the vehicle which is normally used for commercial work, or the Department of Motor Vehicles registration reflects a business versus individual registration. Councilmember Fletcher often wished Palo Alto had more landscaping material separated from the dump itself because it might be useful to the City and others as was the case with lumber. It might reduce the debris dumped in the landfill which was the goal. Councilmember Klein asked what happened to the people who were found not to be Palo Alto residents when they said they were. Mr. Miller said a list was posted in the toll booth of the differ- ence between the amounts they were charged for their supposed residency and what the nonresident rate would have been. If they return to the landfill , most of their names were in memory, but they were verifiers with the list. If the person was not prepared to pay the difference for the load they lied on, staff turned them around at the gate and they did not use the facility until it was paid. Councilmember Klein said it was a mild penalty and they had nothing to lose: He clarified they only stood to lose the gain to which they were not entitled. Mr. Miller said that was correct, and access to the site. Councilmember Klein said if they paid, they were granted access again. Mr. Miller said that was correct. Councilmember Klein would not support the motion. He preferred a Mountain View type system plus a strict enforcement system to include fines and being barred for further use of the facility on a first offense. Philosophically, he was troubled by a system which encouraged Palo Alto people to go elsewhere. It did not see fair to force Palo Alto's citizenry and its landscaping wastes to be deposited- in Mountain View's facility. He did net want to take care of any other communities dump mater1a at that time, but they should not have to take care of Palo Alto's. SUBSTITUTE MOTION: Councilmember Klein moved, seconded by Setorius, to adopt a Mountain View type resident/nonresident sys- tem as follows: $6 per cubic yard for residents; $14 per cubic yard for nonresident for vehicles larger than station wagons; $20 for 3 or more axles for residents and nonresidents; $3 per cubic. yard for compostible materials for residents; $8 per cubic yard for compostible materials for nonresidents; and further; that staff review its enforcement process to ensure that the non- resident rate system is complied with. Councilmember Klein clarified his suggestion was a resident/ nonresident system for vehicles larger than station wagons. 6 2 3.2 8/26/85 Councilmember Klein asked for guidance about the cost savings and the right numbers to encourage usage. Mr. Miller said staff made no projections in terms of the impacts of the compostible program. Councilmember Klein wanted to have a separate lower compostible rate, but that actiun could be deferred pending response by staff. Mayor Levy asked about two and three axle vehicles. He clarified they were being combined into one category for Palo Alto. Councilmember Klein said he was based on Mr. Miller's answer to his question about whether the City had three or more axle vehicles who frequently used the facility-. Mr. Miller asked for clarification about whether the City con- sidered a pickup with a trailer a three axle vehicle for purposes of the rate structure. Councilmember Klein suggested $20 percubicyard for three or more axle vehicles. MAKER AND SECOND INCORPORATED $20 PER CUBIC --YARD FOR THREE OR MORE AXLE VEHICLES FOR RESIDENTS AND NONRESIDENTS Vice Mayor Cobb supported the substitute motion and believed it got to the heart of the -questions he asked and to the heart of what people brought up on the floor. Regarding enforcement, it seemed to him to be illegal to improperly have an address on a driver's license. He believed- the Department of Motor Vehicles would be interested in the list of 18 people. Councilmember Sutorius said he seconded the substitute- motion because he agreed with the primary points --a resident versus nonresident schedule for the commercial, the compostible, and the enforcement. He was not sure he agreed with the $20 rate for residents/nonresidents with three or more axle vehicles. Council was not addressing any of the special situations, and if the motion passed, he asked if staff was comfortable with the specials" i.e., tree stumps, mattresses, furniture, and appli- ances, etc. The only items he heard identified were the $14, $5, and $20 rate. Mr. Miller said staff was comfortable with the "specials" as they were. One adjustment was -made as part of the budget process which was to create a new nonresident appliance rate of $5. That was the only -area where staff saw a problem, and the rate was how it was addressed. Councilmember Sutorius raised the question because he looked at the Mountain View rate structure, and- the "specials" for the non- residents were considerably above the schedule. He asked if that rate schedule was going to continue to work a hardship. If Palo Alto was going to have nonresident rates competitive with Mountain View, -the proposed rate of $4 for a mattress and a box -spring versus -$15 - in Mountain View for a nonresident, appeared to him -to be an area - in which the City needed to look further. He asked -i f the matter would return to Council for further input -and consid- eratian of the other re tes. Councilmember Klein said his motion did not intend toinclude the "speoia1s" as. in Mountain View. -He was under the impression Palo Alto already had a list of specials. Councilmember Sutorius said the City did,: but the rates were so low comparatively. 6 2 3.3 8/26/85. Councilmember Klein believed it would have been, a problem even under the new system proposed by staff and which was the subject of Councilmember Fletcher's main motion. Rcgurdless of what motion was passed, the same problem existed. Councilmember Sutorius said it seemed to be an open question. Councilmember Klein said Councilmember Sutorius' point was well taken, and rather than Council trying to onalyze each of the costs, he preferred that staff be directed to reconsider the "specials" and report back as to what they should be in light of the comparative rates in the other solid waste facilities. Mr. Zaner said staff would do that. The City did not have a prob- lem with the "specials" at that point. It was not a big item. Council reviewed the rates annually, and if possible, staff pre- ferred to bring the rates back during the budget process. The difficulty was to deal with the landscape and gardening business community in Palo Alto, which was done with the substitute motion. Councilmember Sutorius said that was fine. He supported the motion. Councilmember Woolley referred to the permit system, and said she agreed with Councilmember Klein's overall motion, but was con- cerned about the enforcement part in terms of stuff time. From the standpoint of staff time, she asked if strict enforcement of a resident/nonresident system would be more difficult than a permit system for business residents. Mr. Adams said staff believed the permit system would be an ongoing staff task which would probably take more staff time in the long run. He clarified his statement was an opinion and not based on fact, Councilmember Woolley asked how staff would go about more strict enforcement of the resident/nonresident system.. Mr. Adams said staff would have to take more time with each client as they went through the gate to ensure they had the proper identification. In the event they did not, it would have to be discussed with the Police Department to see how to handle it. Councilmember Woolley clarified the current requirement was both a driver's license and vehicle registration. Ms. Lee sa i d1, one approach could be, administrative whereby the privilege of using the landfill could be barred for people who violated the City's policies about resident/nonresident. The other remedy was conceivably a criminal remedy with potential for fines. She did not know what a court would do about imposing criminal penalties in the situation, but assumed it would be treated like any other Municipal Code violation. She believed a more effective remedy would be the administrative remedy of pro- hibiting use of the dump in the future to people who abused the policy. Councilmember Woolley was somewhat uncomfortable with what Council was trying to do because she believed Council was trying to make some major changes in what staff suggested, which was always hard to do on the spot. She preferred to refer the matter back to staff giving them time to think through the various options and returning with a new package. Mayor Levy did not believe the Council discussed the concept of rest dentiai versus nonresidential fully enough. He was uncomfort- able with it. Council was not' dealing truly with -residents people who lived in town and wanted to' use the ` l andf i i l , but rather commercial enterprises who were defined as residents if an individual who happened to be driving the truck for that commer- cial enterprise could show that he lived in town. For example, Hewlett Packard was not considered a resident because it was a commercial venture, and in order to be considered a resident for purposes of the landfill, they simply had to search around the company until they found someone who lived in town and that person could drive the truck to the landfill. Mr. Miller said effective August 1, 1985, staff.. rigidly enforced that the driver's license and vehicle registration must belong to the person producing it or admittance to the landfill. The picture had to match the license and the registration had to match. Mayor Levy asked if he, as a resident, drove a truck registered to another resident, qualified to get in the landfill. Mr. Miller said not within the resident rate structure. Mayor Levy clarified the owner of the business needed to be a resident, and that owner needed to drive the truck to the dump. Mr, Miller said that was correct. Mayor Levy said if the truck was used to deal with an out-of-town project, that truck could still use Palo Alto's landfill if the residency requirement was fulfilled so that the out-of-town job benefited by the City's lower rates. Conversely, if the job was in town, but the truck belonged .to someone_ out of town, then the person for whom the job was done in town did not get the benefit of the resident rates. The whole thing to him did not accomplish what the City wanted to accomplish, but he was not sure what they wanted to accomplish. It was not easy to enforce the entire con- cept of residential versus nonresidential, and it would take more time at' the landfill. Staff's original suggestion was more sen- sible and straightforward to him; that is, a commercial rate would apply to all people doing commercial work. As he understood it, if someone pulled up in a station wagon, which was not a commer- cial station wagon, they would not pay the commercial rate. If they pulled up in a pick-up truck and that pick-up truck did not have commercial writing on the side, they would also not pay the commercial rate. It was an attempt to get at the people who truly dealt commercially at the dump. He did not know whether the $16 was right or wrong, but he was still uncomfortable with the con- cept that someone in commerce, just because they happened to live in town and their business was in town, got a different rate than the person in commerce otherwise. Counci l member Fletcher believed Mayor Levy stated some of her con- cerns. She still liked her motion better. She had no problem with encouraging people to use the Mountain Viewe landfill because they did have a 50 -;,,ear life and seemed to do a lot to encourage people to use their facility. She asked if the Mountain View rate structure Council was reviewing was current. Mr. Miller said the rates were still current. C.ouncilmember Fletcher said she had a little problem . with the three -axle definition being applied to vehicles which pulled trailers because there were some small foreign pickup trucks which had little trailers to increase the capacity, but it was nowhere near the type of vehicle being envisioned with three axles. She suggested thatwhen staff returned, they could solve that problem. She was concerned that just because someone lived in Palo Alto they could bring in debris from wherever the job was. She believed her amendment to the staff recommendation of having com- postible material at a much lower rate took care of the small. gardener who would be so impacted without that provision. 6 2 3 5 8/26/85 Councilmember Klein believed Mayor Levy's comments were inter- esting, and in some ways probably correct. He believed they proved far too much and the problems pointed out would exist with the commercial/noncommercial process also. He agreed that "dumps" were a regional problem and it would be far better to have a regional approach, but since it was not here, Council had to deal with what it had. Council had the responsibility to take care of its own, but in reality, a resident/nonresident approach made more sense. The commercial approach would be more sensible if Palo Alto was the home base of many general contractors who pulled down buildings and generated a lot of solid waste, but that was not where the community was. The idea that Palo Alto had people in business who went outside the community and generated a lot of material from other locations was not borne out by the actual situation. It was a nice problem, but it was not a real one. Regarding who paid, he was not as .,concerned about the particular vendor sitting in the audience. They paid, but they passed that cost on primarily to the residents of Palo Alto. He believed $16 per cubic yard was an unfair and. unnecessary burden to pass on to Palo Alto's taxpaying citizens. It seemed to him the City was better off with the resident/nonresident approach. Councilmember Fletcher said Councilmember Klein made an assumption regarding the type of debris being generated from heavy construc- tion, and she asked whether Palo Alto was getting that type of debris in large quantities. Mr. Miller said not in large quantities, and Palo Alto had not seen large quantities of demolition. It was more on the line of remodel -type material and pick ups. Mr. Zaner said staff wanted to avoid returning again with the item. Staff believed a $3 per cubic yard for compostibl materials forresidents would be sufficient, and $8 per cubic yard for nonresidents. He asked that it be included in the motion. MAKER AND SECOND INCLUDED $3 PER CUBIC YARD FOR COMPOSTIBLE MATERIALS FOR RESIDENTS AND $8 PER CUBIC YARD FOR NONRESIDENTS IN SUBSTITUTE MOTION SUBSTITUT€MOTION PASSED by a vote of 4-2, Levy, Fletcher voting *no,R Bechtel, Renzel, Witherspoon absent. ITEM #8, REQUEST OF COUNCILMEMBERS COBB, SIJTORIUS AND WOOLLEY RE PROPOSAL FOR ORDINANCE MANDATING PERSONAL INJURY LIIILITY INSURANCE OVERAGE FOR CITY CONTRACTORS OPER TIPfG` K�OZ:� BUSES (LEG ate) Councilmember Sutorius said the memorandum from he and Council - members Cobb and Woolley spoke to the subject of the Palo Alto Community Child Care (PAM). Mr. Don Way was in the audience that evening, on behalf of PACCC, relative to their insurance cov- erage and might be able to respond to any questions. Insurance was the subject of concern. It significantly affected Palo Alto, as a municipality, and their process had to be considerably adjusted. For the ,nonprofit institution and in the case of the PACCC because of their operation of school buses, PACCC was caught in a uii roue situation which had some Catch 22 elements. He believed it was a situation where the State Department of insur- ance and the insurance carriers themselves recognized the serious dilemma and were making efforts to address it in some kind of a pooling process. However, in terms of PACCC presently, as he understood it, their coverage for motor vehicle liability on those school buses would end August 30, i985, and no affordable type of coverage . at the appropriate levels was available to them. That meant with the start of the school year the following week, PACCC could not operate their vehicles because to do so would be unethi- cal and nota safe situation. It meant that more than 100 °young- sters and : thei r parents were contacted that week to alert them to the potential that, they had to find other ways of getting to their 6 2 3 6 8/26/86 centers. He emphasized that he would request that Council ask staff to make the appropriate investigation, do the necessary research and coordination with PACCC so if it appeared an emergency ordinance was the right thing to do, staff could then prepare the ordinance. If there were better, more reasonable or more prompt alternatives, staff was free to recommend accordingly. Mayor Levy preferred to have a motion on - the floor for discus- sion. MOTION: Councilmesber Sutorlius moved, seconded by Cobb, to direct staff to research and, if appropriate, prepare for Council action an emergency ordinance or other alternatives to ensure availability of excess liability insurance coverage on school buses operated by service providers under City contract. Loss Control Manager Don West said he spent a lot of time researching the problems addressed in Mr. Way's letter. It was true the insurance industry in the public sector was tight. Recent newspaper articles as recently as the previous week talked about insurance problems in the child care industry. From what he could find out in talking to the City's insurance broker, there were markets available to write the kind of coverage they appeared to have some problem obtaining. He requested the City's broker contact Mr. Way or have one of his contacts that did more specific child care types of underwriting do so. He believed Mr. Way was contacted thee day by one of those brokers who might be able to provide some coverage. He also talked to the State Insurance Commissioner's office and there was a pooling effect, or a joint powers kind of thing, they were presently trying to put together, but it was •strictly in the design stages. There was no timing involved, so staff had no idea when, if at all, the program would get going. He also referred PACCC to the school district who had a large fleet of school buses on which they currently had insurance, as did another contract the City had with the Senior Coordinating Council in which they currently had excess insurance, about $2,500,000 in their lire coverage for automobiles. PACCC might need to go on an assigned risk policy if they were having problems procuring insurance through a direct line writer, or some other reason. It was more costly than a normal line of insurance, but was a possibility= Vice Mayor Cobb said if he understood Mr. West's remarks cor- rectly, it sounded as if he was trying to discourage Council from taking action. He wanted to hear Mr. Way's comments, but did not see any penalty in Council taking action, such that if any of the other alternatives did not come to pass, the PACCC was not left at loss on September 1. He believed there was a crisis, and unless staff could say that Council would hurt the situation or somebody else by taking the proposed action, he saw no reason why they should not do it. City Manager Bill Zaner did not believe staff suggested Council not take the action, bu.t rather that there might be other solu- tions to the problem --one of which might be an emergency ordinance. The request Council made was that the City Attorney be directed to draft such an ordinance. Staff ha.d no problem with that, but preferred the assignment be broad enough to - allow them to look at other alternatives anal return the following week with the wording for the urgency ordinance Council requested, with some other alternatives if they could be found. Council could then choose the alternative which made the most sense. As Mr. West pointed out, staff would like an opportunity to see what an ordi- nance of that type meant to other kinds of contracts and services with other organizations. If there was to be an urgency for one organization that ran school` buses, staff wanted to see the impact on others before recommending . to Council adoption of the ordinance. A Councilmember Sutorius believed the manner in which the motion was made encompassed the concerns identified by Mr. Zaner, and the way Mayor Levy summa;-ized the moLiun put appropriate emphasis on the fact that it would be researched and, it appropriate, the ordi- nance would be prepared. Along with the comments made by Mr. West and Mr. Zaner, it was the intent of he and Councilmembers Cobb and Woolley that anything along the line of an ordinance be compatible with current contractual requirements of PACCC, consis- tent with the Loss Control Management Plan, and not adverse to other service providers with whom the City had contracts, and perhaps appropriately applicable to those other providers. Mayor Levy reread the motion made by Councilmember Sutorius with some language he believed would clarify the direction. Council direct staff to research and, if appropriate, prepare for Council action an emergency ordinance or other alternatives in order to ensure availability of excess liability insurance on school buses operated by service providers under City contract. He believed that gave Mr. Zaner the direction he was looking for: Don Way, Palo Alto Community Child Care (PACCC), checked with some of the other service providers who would presumably be affected by such an ordinance. The ones he talked to, SCC and CAR for instance, had coverage in place in excess of any limits that would reasonably be called for in such an ordinance. One reason PACCC favored an ordinance to mandate coverage through the assigned risk plan was they believed coverage would be substantially less than any coverage PACCC could obtain in the voluntary market. He appreciated staff having people call that day but they simply confirmed that. He rated out what coverage would be in the assigned risk plan and, although it would be wonderful, he did not believe a private carrier could get within 100 miles of it. If there was no strong legal problem, his other thought was PACCC might go through cycles like that again, or other providers might find themselves in similar positions. The City mandated on those service providers those coverages. In some market conditions it might be difficult for providers, especially smaller ones, to buy them. When the State did it, it recognized the obligation and set up JPA's or assigned risk plans, or the mechanisms to assure the availability of the required coverage at an affordable price. It seemed appropriate for the City to do the same thing. Councilmember Fletcher said Mr. Way's letter (which is on file in the City Clerk's office) indicated if insurance through that mechanism was not provided by the end of August, PACCC would have to cease operating buses. The ordinance, if it passed on an emergency basis, would not pass before Council met again, which might be two weeks or more from the present. She asked what would happen in the meantime. Mr. Way replied PACCC might get lucky and, through their efforts or other people's efforts, find a voluntary market; if there was a reasonable _'date certain at which time the emergency ordinance might be considered and either adopted or not adopted, PACCC could probably get an extension on the current binders to that date, if i t was reasonably short term; or, thirdly, if neither \ of those were possible, PACCC would be advised to not drive the buses. Mr. West asked if PACCC presentlyhad any coverage on the buses. Mr. Way said yes, the primary level was in Fireman's Fund through the assigned :risk plan; the excess level was ,i n Maryland Casualty to 500 CSL. Mr. West asked if those were within the documents Mr. Way put in the mail to staff that day. Mr. Wayssaid the general liability coverages were, but he was not sure whether the auto coverages were also enclosed'_ and would have to check. General liability was with another carrier. Mr. West saw the real issue as the auto coverages. Mr. Way agreed it was only the auto, and there was no problem with the rest. Mr. West clarified PACCC currently had auto coverage, which expired on August 30, 1985. Mr. Way said that was right. MOTION PASSED unanimously, Bechtel, Renzel, Witherspoon abse' . Mayor Levy noted there was not a date certain in the item and queried whether that was satisfactory as far as PACCC's needs were concerned. Staff indicated they would get back to Council at the next meeting on September 10, 1985. ITEM #9, REQUEST OF VICE MAYOR COBB AND COUNCILMEMBER KLEIN RE bIStUSs10N OF UATESFtR CoUNCII MEtTIOS RE Cell Vice Mayor Cobb said Council discussion of Cable was scheduled for September 23, September 26 and September 30. For sometime there was a standing date of September 26, which, overlapped the Cable discussions, .for the Northern California Power Agency (NCPA) convention. As Vice Chairman of NCPA, he believed he should attend the convention and Councilmember Sutorius played an active role in NCPA affairs related, among other things, to the selection of the new General Manager. He believed their presence was important given Palo Alto's key role. He could not be two places at once and urged Council make appropriate arrangements so that he and Councilmember Sutorius could attend the NCPA convention on the September 26. He suggested Council deal with the Cable material on the 23rd and if there was need to carry over that week for further questions, etc., Council could finish that aspect of it and go right in the next morning, Tuesday, to finish. September 30 could be set aside for voting, leaving Council free to spend a good part of the rest of the week on NCPA business as appropriate. He understood Council would have the questions and discussion on September 23, and clarified the consultant would be present. City Manager Bill Zaner said that was correct. Vice Mayor Cobb did not know whether the consultant would return to Palo Alto on September 26, 1985, or stay in town for four days, but, as suggested by Councilmember Klein in their discussion that morning, if Council wanted to finish up that aspect of it, which was again the question of hearing from the public, etc., and it could not be finished the night of September 23, Council could start up Tuesday morning and be done with it. They should finish by noon, and the consultant could still be. there, and on September 30, Council could make its decision. Ctty Manager Bill Zaner said the arrangement could work. Staff listed the three days because they knew they needed at least two, and wanted to have a third day as a safety valve. Council could decide then they did not want to meet on the Septembers 26, for cable `and just set the September 23 and September 30 as the two cable dates. Staff anticipated that on the final day of Council's Cable discussion, whether two or three days, what Council would do, in effect, was give staff instructions as to which company Council wanted staff to complete the final documents 'with. It would take the Attorney's office and the consultant a little time to draw the closing :_documents, so ' the actual vote on the final documents prepared and approved by the attorneys would not take place until a week or so afterwards because the documents simply would not be prepared at'that point. What staff would look for on that last Meeting, which could be.. on the September 30, would be instructions from Council as to which company staff was to go back with and finalize the documents. 1 Vice Mayor Cobb said the other thing he believed Council could do to expedite that process was to start the meeting on September 23 at 6:00 p.m. He had no desire to stretch it out, but felt an obligation to be at the other meeting which was in Lake Tahoe, and wanted to be there fresh and ready to go. Mayor Levy discouraged Vice Mayor Cobb because in the past there were discussions about starting times, and there were people who worked and had a commute, and, 6:00 p.m. might be extremely incon- venient. e Councilmember Fletcher had the same reaction, and would also {lot care to have a morning meeting during the week because the public had no opportunity to attend then. She preferred, if Council did not finish on September 30, to hold lt over to one day that week in the evening to have an extra meeting; like Tuesday, October 1st or any other evening that worked coot that week. She would not support a weekday morning meeting because, although it would be convenient for some of the Councilmembers and she had no problem with it, she did not believe it was fair to the public. MOTION: Councilmember Klein moved, seconded by Cobb, that the proposed CATY Meeting SChedule be as follows: 9/23/85 - Regular Meeting 9/24/.85 - Adjourned Regular Meeting of 9/23/85 on Tuesday, 9:00 a.m. - Conclude hearing from members of public and asking staff and consultant questions 9/30/85 Special Meeting - Start of Council decision_ process. Councilmember Klein said Tuesday night, September 24, was out because it was the start of Yom Kippur. Wednesday night, September 25, was out because that evening Councilmembers Sutorius and Cobb were off to the NCPA meeting, which was important to Palo Alto; September 26, Vice Mayor Cobb already spoke to; September 27, was Friday night and he did not believe Council wanted to meet; so that shot the rest of the week. He believed it was important to continue the momentum started and not be engaged in a stop/start situation. One result of a stop/start process of con- tinuing the whole thing for a week was the people felt the neces- sity to repeat what they had said the previous week. The Council - members made promises to themselves an.d the public to get the pro- cess going, and it was important to do so. The fact that Council might not decide untL the following Monday was maybe even wise, giving them time to consider everything heard and letting tMeir thoughts gel on the subject. Council had not met ..i n the morning, but he did not find that abhorrent, and could not agree. with Councilmember Fletcher that it somehow deprived the public; there were all. types of public agencies that met during the day and Council would hardly be unique in meeting in the morning. He hoped Council could hear everyone who wanted to speak on September 23, but if someone did not get to be heard and wanted to go for- ward on the morning of September .24, he was prepared to hear that person. He also pointed out that sometimes Council missed hearing people if they were unfortunate to draw a late slot and it got to be 1I:00 p.m., or midnight and they had not been heard and went home. There was no perfect process. There could not be a guar- antee that Council was going to hear every last person who wanted to talk. He believed that Council's only obligation was to try to arrange things as conveniently as possible so that as many members of the public who wanted _ to speak could do SQ. The issue had been running over such a long period of time and Council had to arrange its schedule so they could complete it. Councilmember Fletcher believed it was one of the most important decisions Council would make, and it should be made, in as public a manner as possible. She did not believe most of the public could be present in the morning, and imagined that Monday night would be mainly a presentation from the staff and consultant and asking questions, and the public would Prot have too much time then to make their presentations. She did not support the motion. Councilmember Woolley asked whether it was possible on that evening, since there was some question as to whether the public would be able to attend on Tuesday morning and Council would like to make that possible, to change the order so the bidders made their presentations -and then the public made theirs.; and Council questions were saved for last so that, if necessary, that was the part carried over to Tuesday morning. Councilmember Klein said the, point was well taken. Mayor Levy's concern was that the public input might not begin until late. He had no problem meeting Tuesday morning. Council - me; ber Kl ein's point was well' taken that certain members of the public preferred to appear, in the morning. Council would not begin the decision -making process on September 30, and, with all deference to the public, Council was elected to make the decision, and he believed Council had to do what would enable them to engage in the best decision -making process.- Stringing it: out over a period of _a -couple of weeks was unwise. Mr. Zaner said the timing was fine and he did not believe Council would need more than two meetings. MOTION PASSED by a vote of 5-1, Fletcher voting no, Bechtel, Renzel, Witherspoon absent. ADJOURNMENT Council adjourned at 9:30 p. 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