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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-03-12 Planning & Transportation Commission Verbatim Minutes_______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Planning & Transportation Commission 2 Verbatim Minutes: March 12, 2025 3 Council Chambers & Virtual 4 6:00 PM 5 6 Call to Order / Roll Call 7 6:00 PM 8 9 ROLL CALL 10 Chair Chang: Good evening, everyone. I'd like to call to order this regular meeting of the 11 Planning and Transportation Commission for Wednesday, March 12, 2025. Ms. Dao, could you 12 please take the roll? 13 14 Administrative Associate Veronica Dao: Chair Chang? 15 16 Chair Chang: Here. 17 18 Veronica Dao: Vice-Chair Akin? 19 20 Vice-Chair Akin: Here. 21 22 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Veronica Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 1 2 Commissioner Hechtman: Here. 3 4 Veronica Dao: Commissioner Ji? 5 6 Commissioner Ji: Here. 7 8 Veronica Dao: Commissioner Peterson? 9 10 Commissioner Peterson: Here. 11 12 Veronica Dao: Commissioner Summa? 13 14 Commissioner Summa: Here. 15 16 Veronica Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 17 18 Commissioner Templeton: Here. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Veronica Dao: We have a quorum. 1 Oral Communications 2 The public may speak to any item not on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker.1,2 3 4 Chair Chang: All right. So our first order of business tonight is public comment, and this is for 5 items that are not on the agenda. If you are here to speak for something that is on the agenda, 6 please fill out a speaker card and you'll have a chance later on. Ms. Dao, do we have any 7 speaker cards or raised hands? 8 9 Veronica Dao: No, I have no requests to speak. 10 11 Chair Chang: Okay. That's easy. 12 13 Agenda Changes, Additions and Deletions 14 The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 15 16 Chair Chang: Do we have any agenda changes, additions and deletions? 17 18 Assistant Director Jennifer Armer: No. 19 20 Chair Chang: Great. 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 City Official Reports 2 1. Directors Report, Meeting Schedule and Assignments 3 4 Chair Chang: And then our next up – next up, we've got City Official Reports. Would you like to 5 take it away, Ms. Armer? 6 7 Jennifer Armer: Yes. 8 9 Chair Chang: Great. 10 11 Jennifer Armer: Thank you. Jennifer Armer, Assistant Director. And I will go ahead to the next 12 slide. Just a brief update on the upcoming meetings. For your next meeting in 2 weeks on 13 March 26th, we are expecting to provide a Parking Program update as well as have a discussion 14 on the retail nodes for South El Camino Real, as was requested as part of your discussion of the 15 HIP/AHIP Program. And then on April 9th, currently we have tentatively scheduled the Crescent 16 Park Traffic Calming and ADU Ordinance updates. 17 18 Next slide. An update on recent Council activities related to PTC. On March 3rd, the HIP/AHIP 19 update was approved as recommended by the PTC on December 17th. On March 10th, the City 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Council approved the contra-, consultant contract to begin work on the San Antonio Road Area 1 Plan, and so we'll be having a kick-off meeting on that soon. And then on March 17th, the City 2 Council is scheduled to consider the vesting tentative map for the project at 4335 El Camino 3 Real as that was recommended by PTC on February 26th. That is a consent calendar item. And 4 that concludes my update. 5 6 Chair Chang: Great. Thank you. Do we have anybody from Transportation here? Hi, Mr. Rius. 7 8 Senior Engineer Rafael Rius: Hi. Thank you, Chair and Commissioners. Rafael Rius, Senior 9 Engineer. And thanks, Jennifer, who gave the updates on our upcoming items. We have the 10 parking updates and the Crescent Park Traffic Calming. Only one minor update related to the 11 Crescent Park Traffic Calming. I just got word that the pedestrian rectangular rapid flashing 12 beacon that's – that was in progress at University and East Crescent is complete. I haven't been 13 there myself. I'm going to check it out first thing in the morning to confirm, but I understand 14 that it's up and running now. I don't have any other updates, but I'll be around for questions. 15 16 Chair Chang: Any questions for staff from the Commission? I've got a light here from 17 Commissioner Ji. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Ji: Thank you. Not quite a question, more of a comment for Mr. Rius. So I live 1 near Meadow and Alma, and for the past – like yesterday and today – I've been having some 2 issues where there's a new sign there where it says stop on the El Camino side of the tracks on 3 red just like it does on the Charleston side. But by now a lot of time the signal isn't actually 4 triggering the light change, so there's a huge backup on Meadow just – it's been kind of 5 flickering. Sometimes it'll work, but yesterday I was waiting there for over 15 minutes and 6 about 4 or 5 cycles. So just wanted to comment on that. 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: I'm going to second that, by the way. I experienced the same issue 9 because I drive the intersection regularly. 10 11 Rafael Rius: Thank you. I'll have our crews look into that. There could be something damaged 12 with the detection. 13 14 Commissioner Ji: Thank you. 15 16 Chair Chang: All right. Anybody else? Okay. 17 18 Action Item 19 Public Comment is Permitted. Applicants/Appellant Teams: Fifteen (15) minutes, plus three (3) minutes rebuttal. 20 All others: Five (5) minutes per speaker. 21 22 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 2. PUBLIC HEARING / QUASI-JUDICIAL. 660 University Ave. [21PLN-00341]: 1 Recommendation on Applicant’s Request for Approval of a Planned 2 Community/Planned Home Zoning (PC/PHZ) on Three Parcels (511 Byron St, 660 3 University Ave, and 680 University Ave/500 Middlefield Rd), Deconstruction of 4 Existing Medical Office Buildings, and Construction of a New Six-Story Mixed- Use 5 Building with 66 Residential Rental Units, Approximately 9,100 Square Feet of Office, 6 and a Two Level Below-Grade Parking Garage. CEQA Status: Environmental Impact 7 Report Circulated for Public Review Beginning on April 2, 2024 and Ending on May 8 17, 2024. Zoning District: RM-20 (Multi-Family Residential). For More Information 9 Contact the Project Planner, Emily Kallas, at Emily.Kallas@CityofPaloAlto.org. 10 11 12 Chair Chang: Then we're going to move on to our first action item of tonight. This is a public 13 hearing that's quasi-judicial for 660 University Avenue. It's – we are to make a recommendation 14 on the applicant's request for approval of a planned community on 3 parcels: 511 Byron, 660 15 University, and 680 University/500 Middlefield Road. It's going to be deconstruction of existing 16 medical office buildings and construction of a new 6-story mixed-use building with 66 17 residential rental units and about 9,100 square feet of office and a 2-level below-grade parking 18 garage. 19 20 So I just – I see that there's lots of folks here. Welcome. Thank you for coming. And I just 21 wanted to remind everyone that we ask you to please raise your hand online or submit your 22 speaker card within 5 minutes of the end of the staff presentation just because that allows us 23 then to make a determination for how long each speaker should have to speak. So could we do 24 disclosures? Maybe start with Commissioner Hechtman and we'll just go down the line. 25 26 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: No disclosures. 1 2 Commissioner Ji: I'd like to disclose that I did a site visit for this location. Also earlier today, I did 3 call FEMA and learned some more information about some of the information provided in the 4 Packet. Thank you. 5 6 Chair Chang: I did a site visit. 7 8 Vice-Chair Akin: I also did a site visit. 9 10 Commissioner Summa: I also did numerous site visits over the period of application process. 11 12 Commissioner Peterson: Nothing to report. 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: No disclosures. 15 16 Chair Chang: Great. Thank you. 17 18 Albert Yang: Can I interrupt for a moment, Chair? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Yes, please. 1 2 Albert Yang: Just – if you learned new information, could y-, at your site visits or otherwise, 3 could you please disclose that as well? Thank you. Like what the information was. 4 5 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. So today I called – sorry. Let me just get the exact agency subname 6 within FEMA. I talked to the FEMA Mapping and Insurance eXchange and learned that – so on – 7 in the Packet – I can't recall which page – it mentioned that there's a specific FEMA 8 requirement on the underground parking. And they mentioned that this is only for their specific 9 insurance program and not a FEMA overall requirement. 10 11 Chair Chang: So could you just expand on that a little bit, the context around that… 12 13 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. So… 14 15 Chair Chang: …so that everybody listening can understand? 16 17 Commissioner Ji: So my understanding from what I've learned through discussions with staff 18 and also ARB hearings is that the reason why we h-, part of the reason why we have the 19 commercial office space as mentioned in Attachment E is so that for mixed-use and non-20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. residential projects, they – in order to have an underground parking garage in this specific flood 1 zone which is designated as AH flood zone type, it needs to be no more than 75 percent 2 residential in order to qualify for this insurance. But the Packet seems to state that this is a 3 FEMA overall requirement, but in my discussion with this FEMA subagency previously 4 mentioned, they said that this is actually not a requirement by FEMA itself but only for this 5 insurance program and the developers and other folks living at this establishment may choose 6 alternative insurances if they choose to develop fully residential, per my discussion. Thank you. 7 8 Chair Chang: Mr. Yang, does that cover it then? 9 10 Albert Yang: Yes. Thank you. 11 12 Chair Chang: Perfect. Thank you. Okay. So could we have the staff presentation now, please? 13 14 Senior Planner Emily Kallas: Good evening. My name is Emily Kallas, and I'm the Project Planner 15 for this project. There you go. As Chair Chang mentioned, this is for 660 University and its 16 associated other addresses. The proposed project includes a Comprehensive Plan Amendment 17 to allow the existing office to be rebuilt in the Multi-Family Comprehensive Plan Land Use 18 Designation when part of a housing development. The project also includes a PC, Planned 19 Community or Planned Home Zoning rezoning to include a new 6-story mixed-use building with 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. approximately 9,000 square feet of office and 66 residential units, 20 percent of which will be 1 provided at below-market rates, 2 levels of underground parking with a total of 78 parking 2 stalls, a height exception to the 35-foot height limit set by the PC Special Requirements. The 3 proposed building is a total of 30 – sorry – 73 feet and 6 inches. The project also proposes 4 reduced setbacks on all street sides either at or below grade, and it also deviates in other ways 5 from the Palo Alto Municipal Code 18.38, PC Special Requirements. Additionally, as a separate 6 project at a later point, this will require merging the 3 existing parcels and then subsequently 7 subdividing it to accommodate the office as a separate condo from the residential component. 8 9 This is an overview of the public hearings this project has had up to this point. It began with a 10 prescreening in October of 2021. The last time the PTC saw it was in November of 2022. It was 11 also scheduled to come to the PTC in July of 2024; however, this was canceled at the applicant's 12 request as they wanted to make some redesign changes. That redesign was submitted to the 13 City in October. It received a recommendation from the ARB in December, and now we are here 14 asking for a recommendation from the PTC before it goes to City Council. 15 16 Major changes from the last time the PTC saw this project: The setback on Middlefield Road has 17 been increased. It is 24 feet to the building wall; however, it is only 15 feet, 8 inches to the 18 raised platform since, again, this project is in the flood zone and is required to be approximately 19 1 foot, 9 inches above grade. Additionally, the parking below grade goes essentially all the way 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. to the property line. This is required to provide at least 25 percent non-residential floor area to 1 meet FEMA requirements. It is my understanding from the Public Works Department review 2 that we will not be able to approve the project unless it meets those insurance requirements, 3 but that is my understanding at this time. The – as a part of this, the building is approximately 4 20,000 square feet larger. This is primarily for the ground-floor amenity space, again, to reach 5 that 25 percent. It did not increase the square footage of office or – and only slightly increased 6 the number of housing units. The increase in height from 4 stories to 6 stories. It increased the 7 number of units from 63 to 66. As a part of that, they provided 1 additional below-market rate 8 unit and the below-market rate income distribution also changed slightly. 9 10 The office use was moved from the ground floor to the 6th floor, and as a part of this, the roof 11 deck residential amenity space was removed. There's a smaller 6th floor deck that is for the use 12 of the office tenants. This slightly reduced the – actually this did reduce the common usable 13 open space for the residents, but later in the presentation I'll break that down a little further. 14 And the increase in height also increased the daylight plane encroachment. 15 16 This slide gives a sense of the floor plan for the ground floor. Again, it shows the setbacks for 17 the building. It's about a 10-foot setback on the Byron side and University side, and on the 18 Middlefield side, it is as I described. Additionally, on the Byron side, you can see that the ramp 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. to the garage as well as the stair access to the garage are also encroaching into that setback 1 and are closer to the property line. Sorry. I just realized this wasn't in full-screen mode. 2 3 Chair Chang: Quick question since you're zooming in on that. You – did you just say 10 feet on 4 both the Byron and the University side, because I'm looking at a… 5 6 Emily Kallas: It's 12 feet. 7 8 Chair Chang: Okay. 9 10 Emily Kallas: This shows the elevation on the Byron Street frontage compared to when the PTC 11 had previously viewed these plans. The material changes were also part of the ARB review 12 process. And this shows the primary elevation on University Avenue. 13 14 Some key considerations for the Planning Commission to consider include the height and 15 daylight plane which exceeds the Planned Community Special Requirements, the average open 16 space which was reduced, the special setbacks, as well as the 30 percent parking reduction. 17 18 This shows a detail of the height and daylight plane. The height: 73 feet, 6 inches. This number 19 is slightly different that what's shown in the plans because I've added the 1 foot, 9 inches that it 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. is above existing grade. It's 82 feet at the elevator overrun which is allowed – or an additional 1 fe-, 15 feet above the maximum height limit is allowed for elevator overruns and similar 2 equipment. So when we're looking at what we consider the maximum height to be for the 3 purpose of the zoning code, it's – would be 73 feet, 6 inches. When we are comparing this to 4 the underlying code, this is in the – currently in the RM-20 zoning district. As a PC, there is a 5 special requirement for 35 feet when adjacent to the RM-20 zone. And this also shows the 6 daylight plane encroachment. The daylight plane shown here is the RM-20 daylight plane 10 7 feet above grade and then at a 45-degree angle. This image shows where it is adjacent to the 8 existing neighboring Coast Live Oak tree where the building is slightly closer. On the other side 9 of the block where the project is closer to a single-family house, the – there is no 3rd – 4th floor 10 encroachment because that portion of the building is set back slightly, but there is still the same 11 encroachment at the 6th floor. 12 13 The project proposes 734 square feet of ground floor common open space for the residents as 14 it is off of the residential lobby area. Currently all but 6 of the units have balconies that are 60 15 square feet or larger, giving an average of 96 square feet of open space per unit. However, the 16 Architectural Review Board did recommend removing the balconies that are within the Tree 17 Protection Zone of the Oak tree. Additionally, the office deck mentioned earlier on the 6th floor 18 is 1,146 square feet. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. A Draft Environmental Impact Report was prepared by Rincon Consultants with the City acting 1 as the agency. It was published and in circulation from April to May of 2024. A final EIR has 2 been prepared and found no new significant impacts. 3 4 This slide has the Planned Community Findings for your reference. They are also in the report. 5 And the recommended motion is for the PTC to consider the final EIR and recommend approval 6 to Council through the following separate documents. The PTC may also consider continuing 7 the project or recommending denial based on revised findings. This concludes my presentation. 8 The applicant also has a presentation to present. Thank you. 9 10 Chair Chang: Thank you. Could we hear from the applicant, please? 11 12 Lund Smith: Is it – sorry. Just to clarify really quick. We were told we would have up to 15 13 minutes. Is that true, or is it 10 minutes? 14 15 Chair Chang: It's supposed to be 15 minutes. 16 17 Lund Smith: Okay. I just – I saw 10 [inaudible 19:08]. Okay. Sorry. Let us get situated here. Good 18 evening, Planning Commissioners. My name is Lund Smith from Smith Development. I'm 19 grateful for your time tonight to discuss 660 University project. Before diving into specifics and 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. turning it over to Ted Korth, our architect, I want to let you know that the following key 1 members of our team are here, either in person or via Zoom tonight. You can see from – so 2 there's Korth Sunseri Hagey Architects, Guzzardo Partnership, BKF Engineers, Arbor Resources, 3 and TDM Specialists. I also want to thank staff for their thorough report of the project. 4 5 So I wanted to just kind of highlight some key elements of this project. Sorry about that. Here 6 we go. I think we should have it here. Okay. Sorry. Here we go. So if you want, you can look at 7 your slides. On this second slide right here, some key members of our – Ted, it's not changing. 8 Sorry about that. 9 10 Ted Korth: It's sharing, right? 11 12 Lund Smith: It's sharing but it's not – okay. So diving into our timeline here, I just wanted to 13 kind of share the timeline. So we've been in this process since 2021. Two significant changes 14 have occurred in the last 4 years of this process. We've been before ARB a couple times, City 15 Council for prescreening, and also before this body as well. The first significant change 16 happened in 2021. We were – we moved the driveway from Middlefield to Byron, and this 17 accommodation was made in response to concerns from the neighbors about traffic and safety. 18 This required a complete redesign of the parking garage and ground-floor layout, and many 19 underground parking garages – parking stalls were also lost. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 The second significant change happened as a result of meeting with you in November of 2022, 2 specifically adhering to the 24-foot special setback on Middlefield Road. This change had a bit 3 of a domino effect on the project. Setting the building back to 24 feet resulted in the loss of 4 ground-floor efficiency, loss of underground parking stalls, and a loss of units per floor. So due 5 to the significant impact and our unit count, we initially changed course and pursued 100 6 percent residential project, only to find out during the redesign – as you point out, talking to 7 FEMA – due to our site being in a flood zone, we were required to maintain a 25 percent non-8 residential component to meet FEMA requirements. And we had several conversations with 9 City staff and also other consultants in regards to that. 10 11 While responding to these hurdles, it's been challenging. But in addition, we've also worked 12 extensively with the City arborist and our arborist to ensure the current and future health of 13 our neighbor's Oak tree. We've made revisions to address ARB ad hoc comments. We've 14 maintained but not increased the amount of office space, as Emily pointed out, and we've also 15 – per Council's feedback, we've added unit count. We've actually increased the size of our 16 market-rate units, and we've increased the size, unit count, and level of affordability of all of 17 our affordable units. So wanted to now let Ted get into the specifics, and, again, we're available 18 for questions after. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ted Korth: Thank you. I'm Ted Korth with KSH Architects. So this is the site. It's shown in blue, 1 on University, again, between Byron and Middlefield. And this is the context and there are 2 some large residential buildings surrounding the site. It's shown in a blue dotted line right now. 3 So these are existing buildings on the site and the adjacent buildings, different residential 4 projects. So the existing site has 2 buildings on it. The setback on Middlefield today is 10 foot, 5 11 inches. And along Middlefield, this is just a diagram that shows varying setbacks today of the 6 existing buildings, some as low as 8 foot, 6, and some at 24 feet. The building is proposed as 24 7 feet along Middlefield Road. 8 9 So a view of the project from Middlefield and University. The ground floor has the residential 10 lobby. It has residential amenity spaces, office lobby, and at the corner there's a planned fitness 11 center to be used by the residents of the building and those that work in the office space as 12 well. You can see the setback on Middlefield Road is 24 feet to the face of the main portion of 13 the building with landscaping in the foreground. 14 15 Now University Avenue. Those areas that are shown in green are proposed public art, and our 16 client has hired Catherine Wagner, who's a very well-known artist, to do the design for those 3 17 areas. On Byron, that's where the cars enter and exit the project. The building steps down, and 18 you can see the deck that Lund described at the top floor. And then along Middlefield Road, the 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. building steps down towards the adjacent 1-story neighbor. Again, landscaping on the left side 1 of the building and landscaping on the foreground adjacent to Middlefield Road. 2 3 So the ground floor. The area in yellow is the residential use, their lobby, and their common 4 amenity spaces. In blue is the ground-floor lobby for the office space, and in purple is the 5 proposed fitness center to be used by both. And you can see the ramp, how it enters the 6 building off of Byron on the left side. 7 8 So the first level below grade is primarily parking for office users. There's also bike parking 9 down there. And the level below is the parking primarily for the residential users. The typical 10 floors have a combination of studios, 1-bedroom, and 2-bedroom units. The unit count, as Lund 11 described, has varied. They were almost all studios the last time we presented this. The first 12 project that was approved by the ARB had primarily studios. This has larger units. And then the 13 3rd floor, 4th floor steps back on the right side. And then the 6th – the 5th floor. And the 6th floor 14 is office. And that terrace is located on the left side of the bottom. Then along the linear side 15 that faces the building adjacent to it, there's a tall landscape screen that's proposed to provide 16 privacy. 17 18 Different units and different dimensions. And then this compares – as Lund was describing, the 19 May 2024 project had 63 units, and 48 were studios, 12 one-bedroom, and 3 two-bedrooms. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. And the proposed project today is 66 units with 38 studios, 22 one-bedrooms, and 6 two-1 bedroom units. There are 14 BMR units in this project. And then the unit distribution for the 2 below-market rate units. Before there were 13. There are 14 now, and 3 of the units run 3 extremely low income bracket. 4 5 So from Middlefield Road, the building steps down from top to bottom towards the adjacent 6 residential home. And our materials and the details have been developed working with the 7 ARB. University Avenue showing the public art. And this is the Byron elevation. And then the 8 elevation adjacent to the Oak tree, which is left of center there, has been recessed to 9 accommodate the arborists' recommendations to preserve that tree. 10 11 Section through the building shows the setback on Middlefield Road. There's a 3-foot area 12 there where there's a higher level where that person is standing next to the tree which is for 13 FEMA guidelines, but it's planted with landscape. And the section along the Middlefield Road, 14 you can see the adjacent home and you can see the daylight plane and how it does expand 15 beyond the daylight plane on the 6th floor. The clients had a number of discussions with the 16 neighbors that own that house. They have seen the 4-story version where it was set back 10 17 feet on Middlefield Road and they've seen the proposed 6-story project with it set 24 feet back, 18 and they prop-, they prefer this 24-foot setback with a 6-story building. These are the materials 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. for the project and details requested by the ARB. And then I'd like to turn it over to Paul 1 Lettieri, our landscape architect. 2 3 Paul Lettieri: Good evening. I'm Paul Lettieri, a Principal with The Guzzardo Partnership, the 4 landscape architects for the project. I'll spend more time on this slide than the others. It's just 5 got a little bit more descriptive information. We've – we tried to keep all the healthy street 6 trees along University and just replace the ones that needed to be replaced. We're trying to 7 utilize the flood level to integrate planters and trees, ramps, stairs into this space so you really 8 wouldn't be very aware that there's a-, that there's any flood component to it. It would simply 9 be the landscape frontage to the site. And that's true on all the sides of the building. We get to 10 the back of the building where the deck is underneath the Oak tree, which has been talked 11 about a lot. Our concept here is to leave the asphalt parking lot in place to minimize any root 12 disturbance. Everything we're showing there is put on top of the asphalt as if it was like a roof 13 deck. The roof deck w-, the wood deck w-, that's there would be supported by pedestals that 14 would sit directly on the asphalt. The planting that's shown there is in raised containers that is 15 also sitting on it – we have sections that show it – so we can try to minimize any impact that 16 any surface activity would have because it's all paved around that tree now. 17 18 The other aspects of the site. We have some exterior patio space to the right of that deck – that 19 sort of yellowish grid that's there. And the tree planting that's shown dances onto and off the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. structure. So some of it's on top of the garage; some of it's in the ground. We tried to make it so 1 that you really can't tell whether you're on the ground or on top of the structure. It's sort of a 2 seamless landscape all the way around the building relative to the structure beneath it. Lower 3 right corner are transformers which are hidden behind a screen fence. You can see the gate 4 swings there just – [it's going to be 30:12] just off to the right there. And those are all – those 5 have been revised several times based on ARB input and getting them as far back as possible to 6 work. 7 8 This gives you just a sense for the kind of materials we're talking about. The bike racks – we 9 have short-term bike ri-, bike parking along the street frontages as well. The bollard lighting. 10 We have some open-wire fence on part of the site. There's a picture of the existing concrete 11 wall that's back next to the tree that we're going to keep and simply put our new fence on top 12 of that using the same footings, so again, no disturbance of the ground itself. This is also just a 13 collection of some of the plant material, not every single thing. We have 82 percent native 14 plants on this site by count. This gives you a little sense of the variety of color, textures, and 15 low-water use plants we're using. 16 17 The roof deck is now on this back side of the building and it's a much more passive roof deck 18 than the previous one we had – I don't know – a few years ago. There's no outdoor TVs. There's 19 no barbeques. It's a passive space for office users. The planting along the bottom is set against a 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. screen fence as well, which also – which blocks the view of anyone that's on that deck actually 1 to the outside world. We have a section, though, I'll show you in a moment. Here you go. So 2 you can see the edge there. The planters are sort of set down into the structure a bit, and we've 3 got that 4-foot, 7 dimension which is where that sightline obs-, is – obscures the view of folks 4 from the ups-, from the deck looking down to adjacent homes. 5 6 There's a few pictures here of the existing tree, which you've probably all seen. It's close 7 proximity to the building offsite. It's close proximity to the property line and retaining walls and 8 other wonderful features that are there in that lower left picture. That's the wall that we're 9 keeping that's just to the right of the white bollards that the fence would go on top of. And this 10 drawing shows just the relationship of the Oak to the building and what we think su-, one 11 significant branch that would be pruned on the tree. There may be other minimal pruning that 12 will happen, but that's to be determined as the project develops. And this gives you a little bit 13 closer view. It shows you how the deck would work with the pedestals under it. So those plastic 14 pedestals that you may have seen on roof decks, that's what's holding up the wood decking, 15 and you can see there's a difference in elevation between the finished floor of the building and 16 that existing parking lot. So that allows us to do this so that we can leave the surface as is and 17 make it work as shown here. And I think that is all for me. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ted Korth: This is just a list of different changes that have been made in response to comments 1 we've had from neighbors and from staff and policymakers along the way. I'll go through a few 2 of these. It was revised in response to multiple rounds of ARB and PTC comments. We complied 3 with the 24-foot Middlefield Road setback above grade. The driveway was moved from Byron – 4 from Middlefield Road to Byron. The project maintains and preserves the health of the 5 neighboring Oak tree based on the City and arborists' suggestions and guidelines. There is a 6 larger Tree Protection Zone below grade to protect the tree. They agreed to increase the value 7 bond for the n-, for the Oak tree 200 percent. The unit count has increased from 63 to 66 units, 8 and below-market rate units count has increased from 13 to 14. The unit count includes fewer 9 studios and a greater number of 1-bedroom and 2-bedroom units, and the BMR units provide a 10 deeper level of affordability. There's bird-safe glass [proposed 34:03] for the 6th story. Public art 11 is incorporated into the elevation on University Ave, and there are premium bike and shower 12 facilities located on the ground floor to encourage people to walk and to bike to work and 13 home. And that's our presentation. Thank you. 14 15 Chair Chang: Thank you. All right. A reminder to the members of the public to make sure you 16 submit your s-, your comment cards. And then let's see if there's any clarifying questions from 17 the Commission. Okay. Commissioner Hechtman and then Templeton. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Let's see. Thank you. In the staff report, it's mentioned that there is a 1 parallel application for this property. It's a Builder's Remedy SB 330 application. I'm sorry if I 2 missed it in the oral presentation just now by staff. I know that the applicant didn't bring it up, 3 but I just wanted to confirm whether or not that's accurate, that there is this other application 4 out there that the applicant is holding that would be – I believe it's 88 units, roughly the same 5 amount of office, and it would not have the setback on Middlefield that this proposed project 6 has. 7 8 Emily Kallas: Yes. That's correct. That application is on hold while this one is being processed. 9 10 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. I did have one question about the Byron side. I just want to 11 understand what's happening on that side and so I'm wondering if we can pull up one of the 12 slides that showed that Byron side view. Please. 13 14 Ted Korth: The rendering? 15 16 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. The rendering. 17 18 Ted Korth: Sorry it's taking so long. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: That's all right. I know it's toward the front. There. Okay. So moving 1 from right to left. I see the – on the far right, that's – is that the entrance to the parking garage? 2 Correct? 3 4 Ted Korth: Yes, it is. 5 6 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. And then next to it I see sort of a gray or – or brown or gray – I 7 can't tell if those are doors. What is that next feature? 8 9 Ted Korth: It's a roll-down door for service features of the building so that trash and deliveries if 10 – could be dropped off and then brought in through that area. And there's a ramp inside there 11 to get up to the first floor. 12 13 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. I noticed in the plans that I could see that the trash compactor 14 was inside behind that. 15 16 Ted Korth: Yes. 17 18 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Now I understand. So those were my questions. Thank you. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Commissioner Templeton? 1 2 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. Don't sit down so fast. You showed a slide with the 3 daylight plane and you were talking about how the 6th floor was affecting it, and I was 4 wondering if we could look at that again. So I noticed on the 5th and 4th floors in light gray 5 appears it's slightly behind but also in the daylight plane. 6 7 Ted Korth: In this area? 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: Yeah. What – can you explain – to the left of that above the line… 10 11 Ted Korth: Right. 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: …in the light gray. 14 15 Ted Korth: So this is the line of the 6th floor line. The floor line is in this location. So there's a 16 chip of the floor… 17 18 Commissioner Templeton: Sir, apologize. I don't – that part I got. It looks like there's light gray 19 in the back. Is that… 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ted Korth: Back here? 2 3 Commissioner Templeton: Yeah. 4 5 Ted Korth: So the building – half of the building is set back like this and the half adjacent to 6 Byron comes out to this face of the – to the face of the building below. So that's in the distance. 7 This is… 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: That's part of this project though? 10 11 Ted Korth: It's part of this project but [it's back 38:12]. 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: But it doesn't have the daylight plane issue? 14 15 Ted Korth: Because the property on the opposite side along Byron is a commercial use… 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Got it. I just wanted to make sure we're clear because I saw it there 18 and it wasn't explicitly like… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ted Korth: Apologize. 1 2 Commissioner Templeton: No. It's fine. I just want to make sure we're all on the same page. 3 And then the other one – can we look at the deck with the tree, I think? 4 5 Ted Korth: [Inaudible 38:35]. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: There's a kind of an aerial view. Sure. This is fine. Okay. I have some 8 comments about that later, but the whole deck is under the Oak tree, right? 9 10 Ted Korth: Yes. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. That will be feedback, but I just want to make sure I 13 understood the design. All right. I'll tell you more about that later. Thank you. 14 15 Ted Korth: Thank you. 16 17 Chair Chang: Commissioner Akin? 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice-Chair Akin: Thank you, Chair. So for the applicant, I'm a little unclear on where the bird-1 friendly materials are being used. So the glazing on the 6th floor office is clear, but the – I mean 2 [inaudible 39:23] is understandable. But yes, we need to clarify this. The Plan Set Page A4.1A 3 talks about a clear glass being used for railings as well. So first question is did you consider 4 using bird-friendly material for railings? 5 6 Ted Korth: We certainly could. We haven't specified that at this point. The bird-friendly glass for 7 the 6th floor – it's a grid of white dots. I think they're 3 inches [inaudible 39:58] or something 8 like that. So that's something that could be incorporated into the railings. 9 10 Vice-Chair Akin: Okay. And what about the windows on the Oak tree side where we'd expect a 11 lot of bird activity? 12 13 Ted Korth: We haven't considered that, but we certainly could if that was something that – I 14 guess that's a good point. They won't be coming from a long distance and flying into the glass, 15 but they would be nearby. 16 17 Vice-Chair Akin: Yeah. I'm no expert on this, so I'm just bringing it up as a potential 18 consideration. Okay. And the last question I have is I presume, as is normally required 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. nowadays, that the parking spaces are unbundled. So do you have a notion of what the price 1 for a parking space in the building is going to be? 2 3 Boyd Smith: Boyd Smith. It is unbundled, but we have not gotten that far to think that through. 4 5 Vice-Chair Akin: Okay. So not even a rough approximation at this stage? 6 7 Boyd Smith: I actually have no idea what the – people are charging and have not looked into 8 that. We don't own it – own other apartments, so I don't really have – yeah. 9 10 Vice-Chair Akin: Okay. Thank you. That's it. 11 12 Chair Chang: Go ahead. Commissioner Summa. 13 14 Commissioner Summa: I was trying to listen and write at the same time, which I'm not good at. 15 But I was wondering if my fellow Commissioner mentioned the balcony glass too, which should 16 really be bird safe. You did? Okay. Thanks. 17 18 Chair Chang: Commissioner Peterson. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. To the applicant, have you – is this a steel structure, wood 1 structure, or concrete structure, just so I understand what we're looking at? Or are you not at 2 that point yet? 3 4 Boyd Smith: We have contemplated all of the above, but we aren't quite sure yet. 5 6 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. Thank you. 7 8 Chair Chang: Commissioner Ji. 9 10 Commissioner Ji: Thank you. I have a question for the applicant about a w-, I think a slide much 11 further than this – about the landscape drawing. 12 13 Paul Lettieri: [Inaudible 42:23] look at the plan? 14 15 Commissioner Ji: Can we go back to the diagram that you said you spent a lot of time on? I had 16 some questions about that one. 17 18 Paul Lettieri: Yeah. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Ji: Yes. 1 2 Paul Lettieri: That one? 3 4 Commissioner Ji: On the bottom right corner, I'm seeing a section that says – it's, again, kind of 5 a dark gray drivable surface in front of gates. Can you help me understand what that is down 6 there? 7 8 Paul Lettieri: Yeah. There's – it's turf block. 9 10 Commissioner Ji: Okay. 11 12 Paul Lettieri: It's turf block. On the inside of the gate is turf block with gravel filling it in, so we 13 really didn't see any need to put planting in it. On the outside, it'll have a little planting growing 14 in it. 15 16 Commissioner Ji: Right. Yeah. What's the purpose of this? 17 18 Paul Lettieri: It's access to the transformers for – which are behind the – which are behind it. 19 And also it's another – it is an egress for people to be able to get out the back of the building. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. So there's a [inaudible 43:05] gate and there's, I think, 2 gates on either side that would be 1 open pretty much only for servicing transformers, which would be extremely infrequent, we 2 hope. 3 4 Commissioner Ji: All right. Thank you. 5 6 Paul Lettieri: You're welcome. 7 8 Commissioner Ji: And then I had a kind of – another really silly question. I'm pretty new to 9 looking at buildings like this. But – so I'm looking at the height which is on – I can't refer to the 10 specific Packet Page. But for the nearby buildings, I believe that Lytton Gardens is 4 floors and 11 4-, about 44 feet, and this building is 6 floors and almost double the height at 80 feet. Can 12 someone help me understand the discrepancies here? Is it – I guess – is it because the floors 13 are – I guess – yeah. 14 15 Ted Korth: I don't have the exact dimensions for the Lytton – the other building, but ours has a 16 little bit taller floor on the ground floor for the public spaces in the building and then the typical 17 floors are 9 foot, 9, which is a good height for a residential floor. So [those 44:11] 72-foot 18 dimension goes to the f-, goes to the roof above the office space. So the office space has a – I 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. believe it's a 14-foot floor to floor. So they're just a little bit higher than just a pure residential 1 floor. 2 3 Commissioner Ji: So I guess it's – either you or staff could help me understand. This is pretty 4 typical for a building? I guess – what is an average height for a floor? 5 6 Jennifer Armer: We have seen over time that the floor to floor heights are increasing. It also can 7 be affected when you've got commercial space which generally has higher heights per floor 8 than residential. 9 10 Commissioner Ji: All right. Thank you. And then I had one other question for staff. So on Packet 11 Page 55 which is Attachment E, I'm looking at the column in the middle here which says ARB 12 Recommended Plans. These seem pretty different from what I saw at the last ARB meeting. So 13 is this accurate to what the ARB most recently recommended? 14 15 Emily Kallas: No. This is in comparison to the pre-October plans. So this is what the ARB had 16 reviewed in April… 17 18 Commissioner Ji: Okay. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Emily Kallas: …of 2024. 1 2 Commissioner Ji: So my follow-up to that is what i-, what are the – can be talk about the major 3 discrepancies between what we're seeing today and what the ARB approved, or is that basically 4 the same? 5 6 Emily Kallas: So what the Attachment D is reflecting is what I had shown on the slide that I 7 described as the changes. I can pull that up again. 8 9 Jennifer Armer: And the intent of that comparison really is to show you what was going to be 10 coming to you midyear last year and what the project now looks like just as part of that history. 11 12 Commissioner Ji: Okay. That's helpful. So the – it's useful to see the information. It's just a little 13 bit mislabeled. You wouldn't say this is what the ARB most recently recommended. 14 15 Jennifer Armer: Correct. 16 17 Commissioner Ji: And as a follow-up, on the 3rd to last row where it says max total floor area 18 ratio, in the new proposed, I noticed that there's a section called other and also that the other 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. square footage increased about 9,000 square feet. Can you help me understand where that 1 went to? 2 3 Emily Kallas: Yes. That went to the ground floor amenity fitness area. 4 5 Commissioner Ji: And this is considered other because it's neither residential nor office, I guess? 6 7 Emily Kallas: I had pulled it out because it will be available for use by both the office tenants 8 and the residents. 9 10 Commissioner Ji: And then for the FEMA calculation that we're doing here with the 75 percent, 11 what – is this other being used as residential or non-residential or are we unclear with that? 12 13 Emily Kallas: Only the area that is within the units and – essentially floors 2 through 5 are the 14 residential, and then the ground floor and 6th floor uses are being counted as non-residential. 15 16 Commissioner Ji: Okay. Thank you. 17 18 Emily Kallas: Mm-hm. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Back to Commissioner Akin. 1 2 Vice-Chair Akin: Thank you, Chair. Question for staff. So we received a number of comments 3 about possible reconfigurations of Byron. And it's my understanding that this is outside the 4 scope of anything we can recommend or require tonight – anything we can require tonight. So 5 is that correct? 6 7 Jennifer Armer: So yeah. So I was checking with Emily to see – I know we have some staff and 8 consultants available online. We do have somebody from the transportation consultant, 9 Hexagon, available, though their expertise in relation to this project has more to do with the 10 environmental review that was done on transportation impacts. So yeah. Different 11 configurations of the adjacent public right of way is not part of the scope of this project. 12 13 Vice-Chair Akin: All right. That's as I expected. So if Mr. Rius or another representative from the 14 Office of Transportation is here, I wonder if you could give a very brief explanation of what 15 would be needed to consider changing the configuration of Byron as a future project. 16 17 Jennifer Armer: We can pause for a moment to see if he is still… 18 19 Emily Kallas: [Inaudible 48:42]. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Jennifer Armer: He is. Great. [Go ahead 48:44]. 2 3 Rafael Rius: I'm Rafael Rius, Senior Engineer. I [inaudible 48:50] – it's a good question. I 4 presume that it would be similar to kind of changing the configuration of any roadway. If you're 5 referring to either one-way or removing parking on one side, it would be a similar process 6 where City Council directs staff to look into different configurations and then we would bring it 7 through the various committees as options. 8 9 Vice-Chair Akin: Okay. Thank you. That's the right general answer I was looking for. I just 10 wanted to have some guidance to give the folks who are interested in this so that it wasn't lost. 11 Thank you. 12 13 Chair Chang: Okay. Seeing no other questions from my colleagues, I have a few. So this is for 14 staff. What is the amount of the Tree Protection Bond? I understand that it's 200 percent of X. 15 What's the X? 16 17 Emily Kallas: It's 200 percent of the value of the tree. On Zoom, we also have Peter Gollinger, 18 the Manager of Urban Forestry. So I'm going to invite him to chime in. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Hi, Mr. Gollinger. 1 2 Peter Gollinger: Good evening. Peter Gollinger, Urban Forester. None of the submitted arborist 3 reports actually include the calculated reproduction value of the tree, which would be what 4 would be used to determine the bond. I did an estimate based on some of the data in the 5 arborist report, and it's variable but it could be – probably about $80,000 to $90,000 would be 6 the reproduction cost of the tree. So it'd be double that. Again, this is just an estimate based on 7 the data that was included in the arborist report, so an actual appraisal would be a little more 8 in depth. 9 10 Chair Chang: Thank you. That's helpful – just kind of ballpark order of magnitude. Question for 11 staff. For the – is there a loading zone or anything like that for – or any space that could be used 12 as a loading zone? So we saw an area that Commissioner Ji asked about. Is that something that 13 can be used, or is there anything else? 14 15 Emily Kallas: One of the – the area in front of the trash room essentially is intended to also be 16 able to be used as a loading zone. 17 18 Chair Chang: So I saw something in the plans about signage indicating that during trash hours 19 no parking would be allowed there, but is that a spot that would then be permanently available 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. for, say, Amazon delivery trucks and that kind of a thing? Or do we know how that would be 1 handled? 2 3 Jennifer Armer: It seems like we could have that be a loading zone so that there isn't 4 permanent parking since we don't want anyone blocking that access, but short-term loading 5 would likely work. 6 7 Chair Chang: Okay. Also wanted to take a look again at the slide that the landscape architect – 8 that Mr. Lettieri had spent a lot of time on. I had questions about the planter setback from 9 Middlefield. If – I believe that the planters are required by FEMA. Is that correct, Ms. Kallas? 10 11 Emily Kallas: So the planters themselves are not specifically required, but that is how the 12 architect designed this step-up from the existing sidewalk to the base finished floor of the 13 building. 14 15 Chair Chang: Okay. Yeah. We'll just give it a moment. So I was wondering what the distance – 16 what the setb-, I had a hard time looking at the plans because they are small. The setback fr-, so 17 I know that the building is set back 24 feet. So maybe I'll ask the applicant to come – or the – 18 Mr. Korth to come up. What's the setback from Middlefield to the planter and from Middlefield 19 to the patio – the outdoor patio? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ted Korth: So from Middlefield there's a 12-foot sidewalk. Then from the property line the 2 building above goes back 24 feet, and to the place where the stair lands it's 10 feet. So it would 3 be 14 feet from the property line to the... 4 5 Chair Chang: To the patio. 6 7 Ted Korth: …to the berm. And that patio is really just an exit path for the folks that are coming 8 down the stair to leave the building. 9 10 Chair Chang: Okay. Well, it'll be easier for everybody to look at the… 11 12 Ted Korth: I think I have to share again. 13 14 Chair Chang: You might have to share again. Yep. 15 16 Ted Korth: Yes. 17 18 Emily Kallas: I think I can also get it if I can get my PDF to load fast enough. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ted Korth: It's a race. Does that work? 1 2 Chair Chang: Okay. So it looks like from the hash – the checker marks to the property line – the 3 Middlefield property line, you're saying that that is 14 feet. Is that correct? It's the green… 4 5 Ted Korth: Correct. 6 7 Chair Chang: Okay. And then where do the – now I can't see the planters. Where do the 8 planters go here on that… 9 10 Paul Lettieri: The whole area from the grids you're seeing, the green area to the right out to the 11 sidewalk on Middlefield is planting, and the planters slope – the soil in the planters slopes down 12 [like this 55:20]. 13 14 Chair Chang: Thank you. That helps. 15 16 Paul Lettieri: So at the street, it's only like a 6-inch curve. 17 18 Chair Chang: Got it. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Paul Lettieri: And when you get up to the building, it's up – it's a couple of feet above what the 1 grade of the street would be. That's how we got the trees there. There are some – there's some 2 contour lines that you probably – maybe you can see them – underneath the trees that kind of 3 shows the mounding. If I can zoom in a little bit. There's some – here's some elevation shown, 4 but those dash lines that you see going vertically on the plan, those are contours just to indicate 5 that the ground's moving up. 6 7 Chair Chang: Thank you. That helps clarify things a lot. Thank you very much. And then what 8 about on the University side? 9 10 Paul Lettieri: On the University side, the planter walls are basically the height of the finished 11 floor of the building. So you go up steps – what it is, 30 inches? Yeah. So it's – so that wall's 30 12 inches high that's – that is surrounding. If you can see the pointer, the – that planter there is 30 13 inches tall from – basically from the sidewalk and then there's steps to the left of it. It'll allow 14 you to get up to the lobby of the building. And then the ramps that are just to the left of that in 15 the plan allow you to roll up to that same entry. 16 17 Chair Chang: Okay. And then… 18 19 Paul Lettieri: That's true for both [inaudible 56:28]. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: My understanding is that there's a 6-foot setback on the University side. Corre-, 2 for the face of the building? So then how far for the – how far from the property line is the 30-3 inch… 4 5 Paul Lettieri: It's basically on the property line. 6 7 Chair Chang: It's on the… 8 9 Paul Lettieri: It's at the – it's on top of the edge of – what's below that planter is the garage. 10 11 Chair Chang: Got it. 12 13 Paul Lettieri: The garage line runs along that. So it's going to be – I don't know – 12 inches back 14 from the property line with that shoring and all those d-, those kinds of details, but essentially 15 it's at the property line. 16 17 Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. 18 19 Paul Lettieri: You're welcome. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: And then I had one question for Mr. Yang. Oh no. Actually before I go to Mr. Yang, 2 I have a question about the – ther-, you had mentioned something about the daylight plane, 3 Mr. Korth, on the Byron side. Is that – so we haven't seen anything about the impact of the 6th 4 floor… 5 6 Ted Korth: So let me… 7 8 Chair Chang: …on the Byron side, and I believe that there's some public comments that came in 9 about that, so I wanted to ask for a – I don't know that there's an elevation in there. 10 11 Ted Korth: There's a – I can show you. So this is the one off of Middlefield, and then if you look 12 at the… 13 14 Emily Kallas: If I may, I think that the project plan sheet shows it a little bit more accurate – not 15 necessarily accurately. It's the same diagram, but I can more easily flip between the Byron side 16 and the Middlefield side and I think… 17 18 Chair Chang: Okay. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Emily Kallas: …that's what you're asking for. 1 2 Chair Chang: Yeah. 3 4 Emily Kallas: Yeah. 5 6 Chair Chang: Thank you. 7 8 Emily Kallas: So this side is the Byron side closer to the Oak tree that shows the building 9 encroaching at the 4th, 5th, and 6th floors. 10 11 Chair Chang: Right. Okay. 12 13 Emily Kallas: And then this sheet shows where it is stepped back. This is the Middlefield side, 14 and so – but still looking from the Byron side, which is a little confusing. 15 16 Chair Chang: I'm confused. 17 18 Jennifer Armer: So it's a… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: I am indeed confused. 1 2 Jennifer Armer: It's a section of the building that is close to Middlefield rather than a section 3 through the building close to Byron. So that's why the daylight plane is on the same side of the 4 screen. 5 6 Emily Kallas: Yeah. 7 8 Jennifer Armer: Because it sections through the building – if you're the one looking at the 9 section, you've cut the cake of the building but you're still standing in the same place. The first 10 one that we saw was cutting the building… 11 12 Emily Kallas: Actually… 13 14 Jennifer Armer: …at a location that's closer to Byron Street. 15 16 Emily Kallas: Yeah, there's actually a key plan here so… 17 18 Jennifer Armer: There we go. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Emily Kallas: …we can go ahead and explain that. So for this one where you can see more of the 1 encroachment – of course, this one doesn't have a key plan. 2 3 Chair Chang: Okay. But then maybe, Ms. Kallas, you can help me understand? Is there an impact 4 of this building on the buildings across the street on Byron – across Byron? Because it's so tall, 5 and I thought I had seen a public comment saying something about that, and so I just wanted to 6 understand that dimension. 7 8 Emily Kallas: We did not ask for a shadow study to be completed for this project, and the intent 9 of the daylight plane is looking at how the building massing impacts projects on the same block. 10 So looking at the dental building, single-family house on Middlefield, and The Hamilton 11 building, but not – it's not designed to be looking across at what's on the other side of Byron. 12 13 Chair Chang: Okay. Is that ever something that we're concerned about in the City given it's – 14 Byron's not a super-wide street? 15 16 Emily Kallas: This project is to the north of Byron. 17 18 Chair Chang: Yes. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Emily Kallas: So I don't think it would be expected to cast a shadow. 1 2 Jennifer Armer: Can we take a look at the elevations along University Ave so we can see the 3 massing along the right side that would be closest to Byron? So we can see there that it is the 4 full height. And then when we look at the elevation from Byron – and here we go [inaudible 5 60:56]. 6 7 Emily Kallas: It's the bottom one on this page. 8 9 Jennifer Armer: Okay. In the middle one – that one there. Scroll to the right. So this shows the 10 property that is across Byron Street. There's a fair number of street trees it looks like along 11 there. But generally with a street in between, that's enough distance that we're not looking in 12 detail at privacy concerns. 13 14 Chair Chang: It was less privacy concern and more daylight plane... 15 16 Jennifer Armer: Shadow and daylight plane. 17 18 Chair Chang: …issue that I was concerned about because of… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: Yeah. 1 2 Chair Chang: …what one commenter said, but… 3 4 Jennifer Armer: And if you think of the daylight plane being drawn starting at a property line 5 across the street because it's usually done at the shared property line, there's – it would – I 6 don't know if it's completely below it, but it's probably less encroaching. 7 8 Chair Chang: Okay, well… 9 10 Jennifer Armer: Because of the way [inaudible 61:54]. 11 12 Chair Chang: So we're not sure is the answer. 13 14 Jennifer Armer: No, we don't have a definite [inaudible 61:57]. 15 16 Chair Chang: Okay. Okay. 17 18 Jennifer Armer: But it's not restricted by code. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. And then – sorry. Before I move on to [inaudible 62:06] I had a 1 question for Mr. Yang about whether you could speak to the public comment we received from 2 YIMBY Law regarding the perspectives about – it's hard for me to summarize, but maybe you 3 could help me. 4 5 Albert Yang: Sure. So that letter accurately quotes the State law, but it's factually incorrect 6 about this project. So State law – the Housing Accountability Act says that if there is an 7 inconsistency between the general plan and the zoning ordinance that a project just has to be 8 consistent with the general plan. But in this case, the project actually requires a change to the 9 Comprehensive Plan and that's part of the application. So the letter is factually incorrect. It's 10 not consistent with our general plan. And beyond that, the letter also interprets the Housing 11 Accountability Act where it says consistent – if the zoning ordinance is inconsistent with the 12 general plan to mean just that there's a difference between the 2, whereas we understand that 13 to mean that there's actually a conflict between the 2. In most cases, the zoning ordinance is 14 going to be more detailed than the general plan, but we don't view that as an inconsistency. 15 16 Chair Chang: Thank you. That's very helpful. All right. Commissioner Summa? This might be our 17 last one before we move to public comment. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: Just briefly. Sorry. I don't have a way to indicate that I wanted to speak. 1 And this is related to the raised planting area. And my understand-, and that's on Middlefield 2 and then around the corner, I don't know if it's raised there or if it becomes raised where the 3 deck is that's on the rear of the building. But the planter shows trees planted in it, and I'm just – 4 I just wanted to confirm that 3 feet of soil is adequate because it'll be above the parking garage 5 for tree – actual trees to be planted there. 6 7 Paul Lettieri: [Inaudible 64:18] corner of the plan. The back of the building and the bottom right 8 corner or both… 9 10 Commissioner Summa: Both places [inaudible 64:24]. 11 12 Paul Lettieri: Well, both of them will have 3 feet of soil and the ones on the Middlefield side will 13 have – will be sitting on top of the garage completely, so they'll have access to all the other soil 14 that's shallower than 3 feet as it slopes down. But there's a big zone at the top – the hill comes 15 up and flattens out so that there's a zone where we have the depth, and then there's less depth 16 but the roots will still grow out into that. In the back of the building, we're f-, there's a curve of 17 the ramp below [than 64:51] the garage that we're tracking… 18 19 Commissioner Summa: Yeah. So that's just a grade. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Paul Lettieri: So that's – but that – well, we're on top that, so we have soil piled on top of that 2 area as well because that area is much – is lower. So we have actually a decent amount of 3 depth so – but the trees there also have access to native ground because there's no wall around 4 it. It's just soil on top of the concrete sloping up. There's no curve at the edge of it. And then it 5 gets d-, it goes down to being grade before you get – well before you get to the Oak tree area 6 where we're not touching anything. It's back down to the existing grade and basically 7 untouched. 8 9 Commissioner Summa: Okay. Thank you for that clarification. 10 11 Paul Lettieri: You're welcome. 12 13 Chair Chang: Okay. Seeing – sorry. I'm going to ask one more question – a question of staff. So 14 can we put road above the – you are? Okay. Well, I'll wait until later then. 15 16 PUBLIC COMMENTS 17 Chair Chang: Let's listen to all the public comments. Ms. Dao, what do we have? 18 19 Veronica Dao: I have 2 groups and then 10 individual speakers. So first is a group by Christopher 20 Ream. 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: So… 2 3 Veronica Dao: Yeah. 4 5 Chair Chang: Okay. Two groups and 10 individual speakers. All right. Let's just go for it then. 6 7 Veronica Dao: So first group, Christopher Ream speaking on behalf of Anne, Peggy, Marilyn, and 8 Dennis. And then the second group is Carol. 9 10 Christopher Ream: I'm also speaking on behalf of a lot of the neighbors in this area. We've got 11 all these people here supporting us in opposition. Could I – we have the first slide? Thank you. I 12 am most concerned about the Coast Live Oak tree there that you've heard about already 13 because I think that's going to cause a real problem. If it's not treated correctly, it's going to die 14 and crash into The Hamilton and probably kill a couple people on the way. Seriously. It's a huge 15 tree. 16 17 Next slide please. There it is. The tree was defined – it's defined as a protected tree because of 18 its size. It's got a 50-inch diameter trunk, around 60 feet tall, and mostly balanced canopy 19 spreading nearly 90 feet across. Next. There's the tree. Beautiful tree. Next. Okay. The Tree 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Protection Zone for this tree is 41 feet according to the code regulations of the City of Palo Alto. 1 However, the ar-, the applicant just arbitrarily said well, now it's – make it 30 feet. There is a 2 history as to why they said that, because they had filed some plans originally without showing 3 the tree and they never wanted to change where the buildings were. They decided that's where 4 they wanted the buildings. Oh, wait. Later they learned about a tree. And even when they say 5 30 feet, they also then go on to say – and you'll see this – that if you're going to have to dig into 6 the ground, we'll just call it 20 feet. 7 8 Next please. Can you – something happened there. That slide is screwed up somehow or other. 9 It's supposed to be the tree showing the fact that it's jutting into the building. And this slide is 10 off, so I just apologize for that. Something in Silicon Valley technology here. 11 12 Next slide, please. There we go. What I was trying to show you on these slides was that the tree 13 intrudes into where the building is. What they wanted to do is say we can take it 30 feet and 14 that takes it to the edge of the building. But then they disregarded what the ARB said at its last 15 meeting was that their approval was conditioned upon getting rid of the balconies. But they did 16 not get rid of the balconies as you can see – not on this plan unfortunately – that stick 6 feet 17 into the tree. So basically that's now a 24-foot back from the tree. But in reality you've got 18 people out on those balconies. You've got to cut the tree back further so that those people 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. aren't just getting their eyes poked out by a pruned limb. So I would say that's 5 or 6 more feet 1 coming back, which takes you down to less than a 20-foot TPZ. 2 3 And next slide if we can – okay. If – my slide originally would have shown you how much that 4 was cutting off and it's well over half of the canopy on that side of the tree, which tilts the tree 5 quite a bit. Then we go to the root system. Next slide please. This is what the roots supposedly 6 look like taken by a LiDAR, which is a radar reader that was hired by the City of Palo Alto to read 7 where the roots are. These are showing out at 51 feet because he stopped at that point. But 8 you can see how strong the roots are still at 51 feet, so I don't know how far out they go – 9 probably 100 feet, maybe further. 10 11 Next slide please. This is what happens when the garage goes in. It cuts off those roots. There's 12 no way those roots are going to go around that garage. So the roots have been cut back. Then 13 they have this thing about a 20-foot zone. They're saying we can go in for 20 feet. Next slide 14 please. Here's their 20 foot. This is what they're saying in their Tree Protection Report so that 15 they can go in 20 feet and tear up the ground there. Next please. Okay. Let's do another one 16 then. There we go. There it is. This is – shows a 20-foot radius for tree protection. They've cut 17 all the – oops. We've already – okay. Anyway, that's what they would cut back, and they're 18 going to cut a lot of that because they have to get in there in construction. They're all – they're 19 going to be in there cutting a lot of roots. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Next please. This is a comparison between what is there now and what will be there after they 2 cut back to that 20 feet. What I'm telling you about this is [first of all 72:08] we know about the 3 canopy is going to try to tilt it over. Suddenly you don't have roots there to hold it back. I think 4 this tree is in serious danger if you let this project go forward. 5 6 Okay. Next. Moving on to another question – parking. Next. Their report says 111 stalls are 7 required by code. They recognize that and acknowledge it. Next. But they only provide 69 stalls, 8 leaving 42 cars to roam around the neighborhood looking for someplace to park. Now they can 9 say because of our bussing system or something, people won't have those cars. That's not true. 10 You know that. Maybe they'll ride the bus to go to work and commute, but on Friday night they 11 want to have a car. And they will have a car, and those cars will be parking someplace out into 12 the middle of our neighborhood. 13 14 Okay. Next please. This is the daylight plane. Next. You've already seen this. I just wanted to 15 point it to you. I didn't know it was going to be brought up before. Okay. Next. Okay. This is to 16 me a very big point. There are 36 balconies on the University Avenue side. Those balconies 17 extend out 6 feet. The fr-, face of the building is 6 feet back from the sidewalk. Where does that 18 leave the balcony? It's right at the edge of the sidewalk. Imagine a July Friday night, Saturday 19 night. There's a little party up there on the balcony. Somebody holding a beer ca-, beer bottle, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. leaning on the railing. Oops, dropped it. It went 5 stories down. If it hits somebody, it will kill 1 them. That's why I'm saying danger. I don't know why you would have these balconies that 2 close. It's going to be a dangerous thing to have. The – I did want to point out – I think your 3 Chair pointed this out pretty well – that the garage goes right out to the property line as there's 4 no stepback on that garage. And is that a problem on Middlefield Road? What will the City be 5 able to do if it wants to make some improvements to Middlefield Road when the garage is right 6 up to the ed-, property line edge? 7 8 Okay. Next slide, please. This is, I think, says it so clearly. This was David Hirsch's comment 9 about this project. This is too much building in too small of a space. And he actually [you 10 remember 75:17] – he said this when it was only 4 stories. We're up to 6 stories now. And that 11 building is being built on what we call Senior Corner. I'm in The Hamilton and all these people 12 are in The Hamilton. We've got Lytton Gardens there. We've got Webster House there. You've 13 got people walking around, people driving around not very well. It's going to be a mess there if 14 you let this go forward. Thank you very much. 15 16 Chair Chang: Thank you. Who's our next speaker? 17 18 Veronica Dao: Next group is from Carol Gilbert speaking on behalf of Kay and Joann, and then 19 followed by Justine. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Carol Gilbert: I'm Carol Gilbert, also from The Hamilton. And good evening, Commissioners. We 2 have a situation. There will be only 78 parking stalls to serve 60 living units plus the traffic for a 3 floor of business offices. This is 33 less than needed in reality. The transportation demand 4 management company offers a plan that purports to reduce the parking demand and 5 encourage alternative transportation choices. There can be no guarantee that traffic reduction 6 in the neighborhood will ever happen according to that plan. Good positive changes and habits 7 will be encouraged, but there is no way to enforce them. Residents will be asked to reduce 8 single vehicle occupant commuter trips by 45 percent. Noble but not enforceable standards. 9 What they'll be doing is having flyers and handouts and bike support and carpool promotions. 10 That's nice, and we're not against that, of course, but it's not a plan for real action. 11 12 The question you are asked with which to deal is where can the 660 residents park. Sixty 13 parking spaces are inadequate to support the residents plus clients. There is no parking on 14 University or Middlefield. You want to put up the first slide, please? Thank you. And no street 15 that surrounds 600 allows parking except Byron. When you look at the available spaces, I 16 mapped out the fact that any place that I show in red has no parking, and any place that I show 17 in green is 2-hour limited parking. I think if you're a tenant in this building, you are going to be 18 like living in New York City as you drive all around trying to find something because Byron has 19 rather limited parking. And during the day, it's usually quite heavily parked – quite fully parked. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 We were not necessarily in favor of having the ingress/egress for this building on Byron, but it 2 was so obvious 4 years ago in 2021 that it wasn't going to be on Middlefield and it wasn't to be 3 on University. So it has landed on Byron. If you did a traffic study right now, it wouldn't look 4 that bad to you, but with that many units and residents going in, there will be double or triple 5 that kind of traffic on a very narrow street. I think it can be managed but not without making 6 changes to Byron. And I understand you cannot do that right now here at this meeting, but you 7 can offer your opinions and recommendations when this goes forward from you to the City 8 Council because we are not going to let this go. 9 10 Next slide, please. You've already been told that there – it's Senior Corner, plus there is a 11 church, dental office, therapist's office, a nursery school. These are the kind of things that are 12 on this one narrow, short block. This is a slide that shows – that I took just the other day and it's 13 some of the people with walkers and with people with them assisting them going from Se-, 14 across from Senior Corners to the Methodist church for their daily lunch. We have a lot of foot 15 traffic, and that foot traffic is frequently on walkers, with canes, in wheelchairs, and elderly. 16 There's no 2 ways around that. 17 18 Next slide, please. This is a picture of Byron on a delivery day. Our building certainly gets plenty 19 of deliveries. Don't you think this building will also? And you can see traffic is not going to get 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. through on that slide. Next slide, please. This is a picture I just took at the end of February. Even 1 as it stands, this is the kind of thing you will see on Byron. It's not easy to drive it. It's not easy 2 for walkers who are elderly. 3 4 Next slide, please. Yes, in their plans they show a place for garbage and truck stops. It's going to 5 take up something like 3 or 4 parking spaces, and it extends across both lanes of traffic certainly 6 when there are big, big trucks there. Next slide shows the width of Byron Street as it currently 7 exists, and there are – there is parking on both sides and it's a 2-way street. And I believe I sent 8 some of this information to you in advance. I do plan to also talk to the fire department about 9 access after this building goes in. I think for consideration that we really need to see a 10 reconfiguration of Byron Street, making it 2-way for sure because of ambulances and trucks 11 that have got to have access there and eliminate parking on 1 side and just have parking on 1 12 side. It's also been recommended to me that you make use of the underused Cowper/Webster 13 Garage as the go-to plan for neighborhood parking permits, not just hither and yon on the 14 street. And I think this is something worthy of consideration. 15 16 So if you'll put the next slide up. That's what I'm really talking about. And although you cannot 17 make that decision and make that a demand right now, it's something that has got to be 18 considered and that I hope this Commission will lend some credence to and include that in 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. whatever you send on to City Council. You are transportation and planning. And I thank you 1 very much for your consideration. 2 3 Chair Chang: Thank you. 4 5 Veronica Dao: Next is Justine followed by Eli. 6 7 Justine Forbes: Good evening to all and especially the Transportation Committee. I am a re-, I'm 8 here as a resident of The Hamilton Retirement Community. We are a group of about 60 plus 9 condos that are owned by our own selves, and we're managed by a board of directors. And so, 10 in other words, each one of us own our own property. This is basically our last home. Most of – 11 we have most people in their 70s and 80s, quite a few in the 90s, and we have 3 at least in the 12 100s. So The Hamilton has been, for me – I'm a retired physician – a wonderful find quite by 13 accident. It was tranquil. It was simple. It was just the perfect – you couldn't imagine a more 14 perfect place to retire and [inaudible 87:13]. 15 16 So I wanted today to describe to you what an elderly pedestrian looks like from the point of 17 view of a physician because we use the word pedestrian and we think able-bodied people 18 walking in and out of places. But on Byron Street because you have Webster across the street 19 and you have Hamilton here right on Byron, you have to look at a pedestrian as also an elder 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. person who has a variable decreasing rate of processing information that is slow reaction time, 1 some degree of brain fog, balance problems, and medication side effects, etc. I could name 2 thousands of medical issues that are – we are living with [inaudible 88:10] and on the – in The 3 Hamilton on Byron Street is where we walk. So I'm one of those pedestrians, and I've been 4 walking on the very sidewalk where all those vehicles entering and exiting from th-, from our 5 own parking lots and other lots like the dentist's office and so forth and the across the street 6 church and kindergarten. But it's been fairly quiet and basically you can manage it. But the 7 proposed entrance and exit for the 660 University project emptying on Byron just changes that 8 totally because not only will you be having bicycles which we can't hear very well coming at us 9 and – but you might have motorcycles which are really sou-, have sound pollution day and 10 night. And so it seems it's just – the plan is a very great hazard to those of us who have medical 11 issues. I thank you. 12 13 Chair Chang: Thank you. 14 15 Veronica Dao: Next is Eli followed by Peter. 16 17 Eli Robles: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Eli Robles. I'm a Nor Cal carpenter with 18 Local 405 in the South Bay. First I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak today. The 19 proposed project at 660 University Avenue by Si-, Smith Development Group has a potential to 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. be a great addition to Palo Alto, but for it to be truly a benefit to the community, it must be 1 built the right way with a responsible contractor that pays area standard wages, provides 2 healthcare to its workers, and hires from accredited apprenticeship programs here in Santa 3 Clara County. Palo Alto is a beacon city in the Silicon Valley attracting people from all over the 4 world to live here. As Commissioners, you have the power to ensure that new developments 5 reflect the values of this [inaudible 90:27] community, fair wages, good jobs, and responsible 6 growth. We all have seen what happens when projects cut corners and exploit workers, poor 7 craftsmanship, and a race to the bottom that hurts everyone. Palo Alto does not want this and 8 neither should you. That's why I want to extend my hand to you and find a path where we can 9 work together to get this project to the finish line the right way. Let's set a standard now by 10 making sure this project uses a responsible contractor. Thank you for your time. 11 12 Chair Chang: Thank you. 13 14 Veronica Dao: Next is Peter followed by Xenia. 15 16 Chair Chang: Is Peter here? 17 18 Veronica Dao: Peter [Giovannotto 91:17]? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Male: [Inaudible 91:18]. 1 2 Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. 3 4 Veronica Dao: Then Xenia followed by Ali. 5 6 Xenia Hammer: Hello. Thank you very much. I'm Xenia Hammer, and I have family members 7 living both at The Hamilton and in Lytton Gardens. And so I am – very much share the concerns 8 that have been raised so far about the size of the building, the height of the building, parking, 9 daylight planes, and the impact on senior pedestrians in the area. I also want to especially thank 10 Commissioner Ji for your clarification at the start of this meeting that there is no FEMA 11 requirement for this building to have office space on top or anywhere. Thank you. And in your 12 deliberation, I urge you to consider that there is no requirement for having office space in this 13 building. We all agree that we need more housing and this building can provide housing units. I 14 attended a meeting here last time around, and strangely this project today is bigger than what 15 we considered in this Commission last time. That's surprising. 16 17 So specifically I want to talk a little bit about parking. I was reading Palo Alto regulations and I 18 saw somewhere – I couldn't find it today, but I do remember clearly seeing it and maybe the 19 City can clarify it – that projects of this size, of this many housing units are required to have a 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. street-level parking spot on site. My huge concern is traffic on University Avenue. The entrance 1 to the building is on University Avenue. Imagine all the drop-offs and pick-ups that happen for 2 residents. Imagine all the food – DoorDash and food deliveries that happen. Those cars are 3 going to stop on University. Imagine what that's going to do to traffic on University at that very 4 busy location. All the projects in this area have a circular driveway. Hamilton, Lytton Gardens, 5 Webster House – they all have a circular driveway so that those drop-offs can happen outside 6 of the traffic. And in this project in this location where it is, that is required, and there's a City 7 requirement for having 1 on-street level parking spot, and this project does not provide that. 8 9 I also have serious concerns that have already been talked about regarding Byron. Byron is a 10 narrow street. If you are leaving Byron and there's cars turning onto Byron from University, that 11 is a head-on collision waiting to happen. I have had several near-miss head-on collisions where 12 a car just zooms in onto Byron from University. Are you prepared to have a street light on 13 University on Byron, because if you increase traffic on Byron that will be needed. So I'm very 14 concerned about having more street-level parking as part of this project so that people can get 15 dropped off at University in front of the front door. And, again, all the other concerns basically 16 boil down to the fact that this is – to quote former Commissioner Hirsch – it's too big of a 17 building for too small of a space. And, again, the traffic on Byron is just a huge concern and also 18 on University. I think setbacks is also important both on University and Byron. It's good that we 19 have 24 feet on Middlefield. Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Thank you. So I'd just like to ask the members of the public here to just hold your 2 applause. We want to keep it calm in here. Thank you. 3 4 Veronica Dao: Next is Ali followed by Amie on Zoom. 5 6 Ali Sapirman: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Ali Sapirman, and I'm here on behalf 7 of the Housing Action Coalition. The Housing Action Coalition is a member-supported non-profit 8 that advocates for creating more housing for residents of all income levels in order to help 9 alleviate the Bay Area and California's housing crisis, shortage, and affordability crisis. Our 10 endorsement committee had the chance to review Smith Development's proposal at 660 11 University, and we proudly endorse the project. You should have received over 70 letters of 12 support from neighbors that we helped organize. The proposal would bring 66 much-needed 13 new units to Palo Alto. We were impressed with the project's dedication to affordable housing 14 with over 20 per-, sorry – with 20 percent of the units for lower tiered affordable housing, 15 which is high, especially considering the current economic conditions. By prioritizing affordable 16 housing and urban development, we can create more sustainable and inclusive communities for 17 everyone. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. We also appreciate the reduction of parking. We would further support reduction in parking in 1 order to maximize housing. We are simply not in a parking crisis. We are in a housing crisis. In 2 terms of land use, the project site's central location with proximity to central downtown 3 amenities including the Caltrain station and the inclusion of ample bike parking facilities 4 underscore a commitment to promoting environmental sustainability and reducing reliance on 5 automobiles. The office space over the project is critical in the funding of the project. Namely 6 the housing, especially the affordable housing, will not pencil without office development in 7 this residential property. In terms of overall design, we commend the steps Smith Development 8 has taken to preserve the Oak tree and have even incorporated it into the design. This 9 developer has done everything they possibly can to make this project pencil and incorporate 10 the feedback of the community. This project will be critical for Palo Alto's Housing Element and 11 the – and to meet Bay Area's housing needs. Please move this project forward without any 12 further delays. Thank you. 13 14 Veronica Dao: Next is Zoom. First is Amie Ashton. 15 16 Chair Chang: Mr. Suh? 17 18 Veronica Dao: Amie, if you're speaking, we can't hear you. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: All right. [Inaudible 99:32] move on to the next person. 1 2 Veronica Dao: Okay. Next is Neilson. 3 4 Chair Chang: Go ahead, Mr. Buchanan. 5 6 Neilson Buchanan: Good evening. I've been involved with the downtown parking situation for 7 the commercial core and the 10 residential zones outside the commercial core for over 10 8 years. I want to make 5 policy solutions – suggestions to you. First is we do have a very 9 adequate data system from the Office of Transportation. It is easy to calculate the number of 10 permits that would be issued from that building. Each resident has the opportunity to buy non-11 resident permits and park in the neighborhoods. So will the commercial residents or tenants as 12 well, but the number of permits are limited for the non-residents. The Office of Transportation 13 should be able to show you a very easy map to understand this and also point out that the non-14 residents are in competition for a fixed number of parking spaces in the residential 15 neighborhoods. I have tried for many years to understand the actual limits, but the City 16 Manager has the authority to issue 1,200, 1,500, 2,000 permits for non-residents to park in 17 them – the neighborhoods. Time is not adequate tonight to go into that detail, but the Office of 18 Transportation can explain this to you with a map in less than 5 minutes. So I mi-, the policy 19 issue is use this building as an example of data-driven decision making of where parking actually 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. goes because the residents have the right to park in the building presumably if the landlord 1 allows it, but they also [have to 101:26] park anywhere in the 10 residential zones. 2 3 The second policy issue: It would be really wise to draw a radius around the building and have 4 the Office of Transportation s-, create regular maps on the parking density on street faces in the 5 residential neighborhoods. 6 7 Policy issue #2: What is the quality standard for residential street faces? How much density – or 8 how – saturations does the City really want for residential street faces? We have never been 9 able to get a statement from the City staff or from important Commissions such as the Planning 10 Commission. 11 12 Number 4: Why is Cowper/Webster off limits? I have tried and spent considerable amount of 13 my personal money to get a legal interpretation of what prevents full use and control of the 14 Webster – Cowper/Webster Garage by the City staff. I finally got an answer frankly from one of 15 the landlords in the Parking Assessment District, but that question needs to be answered by 16 City Attorney because Cowper/Webster is not – all-day parking is not open to the free market. 17 There is short-term parking available to all, but a substantial portion of the Cowper/Webster 18 Garage is not open to the public. Furthermore, it is the least well-utilized garage in the 19 downtown. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 The 5th issue I'd like to bring up is something that will be elusive. What are the parking 2 incentives – pricing incentives that will be created by the landlord of this building? That is 3 something that's probably not in the public domain but very much influences where the tenants 4 and the residents will choose to park. It's very easy for residents to be priced out of parking for 5 no other reason than parking in the residential neighborhood is so inexpensive. That differential 6 is something that should be in the domain in the Office of Transportation. I'd be happy to come 7 back and explain these in detail, but I've done my best to do it in 4 minutes – 5 policy issues 8 that have not been answered and it's critical for all the future developments – of commercial 9 developments in the 10 residential zones. A map of that is very helpful to understand what I'm 10 talking about. So thank you very much for my 4 minutes. Good night. 11 12 Chair Chang: Thank you so much. I think we can go back to Amie Ashton now. 13 14 Veronica Dao: Yes. Amie, if you can unmute, you have 5 minutes. 15 16 Chair Chang: Go ahead, Ms. Ashton. That's not working. Okay. Let's go on to the next speaker 17 then I think. 18 19 Veronica Dao: Next is James. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 James Suh: Yes. Can you hear me? 2 3 Chair Chang: Yes, we can. 4 5 James Suh: Good evening, Commissioners. My apologies that I could not be there in person this 6 evening. My name is James Suh. I am a resident of Palo Alto for about 20 years. I am speaking in 7 support of this housing project at 660 University Avenue as I believe we do need more housing 8 projects like this in Palo Alto and the region as a whole, of course. I feel the addition of 66 units 9 here is a pretty positive move in addressing Palo Alto's pressing housing shortage. As one of the 10 speakers said, I'm equally impressed by the owner's commitment to 20 percent affordable 11 housing. I think approving this project really would showcase your dedication to providing these 12 opportunities for individuals that have diverse socioeconomic backgrounds to really live and 13 really thrive in this community and not just for the affluent sort of groups. I think we can all 14 agree that this is necessary here and we need to expand these housing options because we just 15 need to accommodate our growing population here. And if you are going to build a slightly 16 denser project, then I believe doing so in the proximity of downtown near all the amenities and 17 supporting our local retailers is a very smart move. I know that it's also close to – in proximity to 18 the Caltrain, and I think I heard that the owner is providing bike parking. I think this is going to 19 make the project a very attractive place to live while at the same time obviously decreasing 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. their environmental footprint. I think these are all positive things. I do feel pushing ba-, I've 1 heard a couple comments tonight about height. I think pushing back against height right now is 2 the wrong fight at the wrong – at this time. I suspect – I don't know – but that the additional 3 units and the increased height is probably what makes this project work given these financially 4 difficult times. So I actually congratulate the architect and the owner of doing a pretty great 5 job, I think, of articulating the facade and stepping back the top floors and making the building 6 really overly attractive. I think they could have gone very cheap, and it didn't look like they did 7 that, so congratulations to them. My hope is that tonight this Commission will approve this 8 project to be sent to Council, and I really do hope that the project sponsor can get started as 9 quickly as possible before inflation and these out-of-control tariffs make it even more difficult 10 to proceed. So thank you very much for hearing me. 11 12 Chair Chang: Thank you. 13 14 Veronica Dao: Next, Amie, if we can try again. 15 16 Amie Ashton: Can you… 17 18 Chair Chang: Yes, we can hear you. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Amie Ashton: Yay! A new computer needs to be ordered. Good evening, everyone. I am calling 1 in in support of this project. I live 2 blocks away and just wanted to note that my fence and 2 front stairs are in the special setback on Middlefield. I'm excited for the new energy at this 3 corner, new customers for downtown businesses, and new neighbors this project will bring. I 4 live almost entirely car-free downtown, and thanks to the location of this project, I imagine 5 many of these new residents will do the same, which is consistent with our climate goals and 6 our Comp Plan. 7 8 And please note that if this project was 1 block over, zero parking would be required under AB 9 2097. And also important, a survey by the City of Palo Alto found that occupied parking rates 10 for mixed-size downtown apartments – and that's across unit size studio, 1-bedroom, 2-11 bedrooms – is .75 spaces per unit. This is a City survey. This project well exceeds this ratio, and I 12 would expect it to be successful. After years of process and more changes and architectural 13 updates than any of us can count, please move this project forward to the City Council for final 14 review. A continuance serves none of us. I can't wait to welcome new neighbors to my 15 community and see this beautiful building in my neighborhood. Thank you. 16 17 Chair Chang: Thank you. 18 19 Veronica Dao: Next is Zachary. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Go ahead, Mr. Anglemyer. 2 3 Zachary Anglemyer: Good evening. Hi. My name's Zachary Anglemyer. I'm a former resident of 4 Palo Alto and Woodside, just recently moved to Tiburon. But it's still a very important 5 community, and I do help volunteer with Amie and Palo Alto Forward and Menlo Together 6 about getting housing like these projects approved. However, I always make sure to take a very 7 critical lens at how we approach these projects because we need to – we need a project to 8 exemplify how we want our neighborhoods to look 20 years from now. And we need to have at 9 least 1 or 2 of these projects approved in such a way now within the next, say, 6 to 12 months 10 because – and I work in the circular economy. I was just working – I work with the United 11 Nations and such. And what's really missing in the United States, particularly in communities as 12 progressive as Palo Alto, is buildings that not only provide wonderful housing for those who are 13 at market and below market, those buildings that improve accessibility without a car, these 14 sorts of things, like this project – but buildings that renew land, buildings that improve air 15 quality, buildings that become much, much less expensive to run over the course of their life, as 16 well as buildings that use novel building techniques, that actually cost less than what a building 17 like the one proposed at 660 is being fought about in the manner in which they are thinking 18 about building by this developer, Smith. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. And it's – unfortunately it's the only way – or fortunately probably in the case of the 1 Commission – the only way for such structures to get approved and to get built is if the 2 Commission requires that – puts a stipulation in and says that we will approve this project if you 3 go to the extent of hiring a consultant to make sure that the building is net positive. Now it may 4 not become net positive, but by having that as the goal from the beginning, you'll start to get 5 there. So that is my first point, and I think that this is probably the best project currently 6 pending in Palo Alto to do this because it has office space that can offset some of the rent, 7 some of the costs that may be incurred. I don't have enough time in this forum to go into how 8 you could actually save money doing this, but you have an offset that you don't normally have 9 in projects that are currently pending in Palo Alto, as well as you do have generally a higher rent 10 that you would be getting because of the building's location to begin with for the foremarket 11 rate given one that's on the periphery of town. So it's more of a perfect storm in that respect 12 for this. 13 14 But also there is a lot of critical backlash. And I do agree with the concerns of the physician who 15 spoke and some of the other members. There needs to be some rezoning of Byron. It probably 16 should be a pedestrian street that's only used for ca-, vehicle traffic for deliveries and pick-ups 17 and to getting in and out of the garage, but beyond that it should be a pedestrian street. So 18 there needs to be some rezoning occurring there. But this is an opportunity to show at the east 19 entrance, more or less, of Palo Alto those individuals that are coming to Palo Alto that Palo Alto 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. is part of the future of how we live as a society. And because this project has taken so long 1 already, another 6 months isn't going to kill the project if we are doing it with this intention. 2 Besides, there is enormous funding channels from private to public funds – that, yes, are still 3 available despite what's going on – that would enable this project to go forward even with 4 taking a step back and doing it. So I am 100 percent on board with having this project. It's 5 important for the community. The height is not a problem given the 15-story tower that is in 6 Palo Alto. But we just need a project to be the light that shows us the future of Palo Alto and 7 neighborhoods like it. Thank you. 8 9 Chair Chang: Thank you. 10 11 Veronica Dao: And next, our last speaker is Michael. 12 13 Chair Chang: Go ahead, Mr. Quinn. 14 15 Michael Quinn: Hello, everyone. I'm a former Palo Alto resident. I now live in Sunnyvale. I 16 moved away to get closer to work, but I care deeply for Palo Alto, have many friends there, and 17 would eventually perhaps like to move back. What I've noticed – and I think a lot of what can be 18 said has already been said – when projects like this are discussed in forums like this, we sort of 19 end up in the same cul-de-sac in that existing residents raise many of the same objections and – 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. be it parking, it's too high, something, there's a tree, etc. – I think we need to collectively step 1 back here. And I would encourage the Committee to show leadership because – and the 2 current residents to show understanding in that every objection that was raised by one of the 3 speakers opposed to the project could have conceivably been said about the building they live 4 in now. It would have been something – some tree, some balcony, something that's extending a 5 little too far. And because – one other thing I would encourage our seniors to think about is do 6 they want their younger relatives and the people who will look after them in the future to be 7 near them. I want to take my mom to visit her financial advisor because she's worried about the 8 market right now and I want to do that in person. Instead, I'm struggling through it on the 9 phone with her because she cannot afford to live near me. We're on the phone struggling to get 10 through to Fidelity and my mom's in her early 70s. I can't think what this is going to be like 11 when she's 90 and I'm not close to her. 12 13 Regarding the [inaudible 116:37] diminish that in any way. The location – the street intersection 14 that everyone sounds so concerned about sounds like a really good place for a traffic camera. 15 And I think our roads are very dangerous to the point where I've stopped riding my bicycle, at 16 least for a while. 17 18 Other thing I'd like to touch on is one of the Council members asked about a Builder's Remedy 19 application that was submitted by the same developer. In that vein, Palo Alto and many other 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. affluent cities are relying on what's basically a crackpot legal theory that says that because the 1 City voted on a Housing Element, as I understand it, within a certain amount of time, it is not 2 subject to the Builder's Remedy. That argument is already losing in court, and really it's a 3 double dog dare by the City Attorney and really the City Council to go ahead and sue us, we'll 4 see you in court. That can work for a while but not really, and, again, the decisions are already 5 being rendered in lower courts against that perspective. 6 7 Regarding the Housing Element, we are in our first Housing Element now that actually has 8 teeth. We are in danger perhaps during this Housing Element period of being discertified. I'm 9 not sure how likely that is, but given how far behind Palo Alto is right now, retaining local 10 control over development during the next Housing Element is looking very, very hard given how 11 far behind we are on this one at the moment. So I would encourage the Committee to really 12 think about the future, what that's going to look like. And if the goal is indeed to maintain local 13 control, how is that in fact going to be possible? Thank you. 14 15 Chair Chang: Thank you. So I think that was the last of our public comment. Correct? 16 17 Veronica Dao: Yes. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Okay. So I believe the order of operations now is that we have rebuttal. Is that 1 right? So the applicant has 3 minutes for rebuttal to any of the public comments, any of the 2 discussion thus far. If you'd like to go ahead. 3 4 Lund Smith: Thank you. I'll do my best to try to address all the comments that were made. I 5 appreciate the comments made by the public speakers and acknowledge there are varying 6 opinions. I understand that a new project close by can be disruptive. We are committed to 7 keeping the construction phase of the project along with the finished project to be safe for the 8 neighbors including residents of The Hamilton. So I do appreciate the comments that were 9 made on that. There were a couple references made to David Hirsch from the ARB saying the 10 building was too big for this site. I just want to point out that David Hirsch in the most recent 11 ARB hearing did approve the project – the 6-story project. I just want to make sure that's on 12 record. 13 14 A couple of other things: The entrance – which is going back to how the driveway shifted from 15 Middlefield to Byron – the entrance was first on Middlefield Road. It shifted to Byron largely 16 because of The Hamilton voicing concerns about that. There was a study done by a third party 17 consultant hired by the City that basically said there was a negligible difference between the 2. 18 But we did, however, make the change and there were significant parking stalls lost as a result. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Parking: So it's also important to point out because of, say, law and other things, that if we 1 were 1 block closer to the train, zero parking would be required by State law if we were just 1 2 block closer. So we have done everything we can to minimize the impact on parking. We have 3 tons of bike parking. There are – it's very realistic to realize that residents and employees of the 4 building will use Caltrain. We developed several sites in other downtowns and there's a very 5 high ridership of Caltrain in these downtown locations. There's also a few units likely to be 6 occupied by people who both live and work in the building, requiring no car at all. We expect 7 that. A few units will be occupied by people who live in the building, work downtown within 8 walking distance, won't need any car at all. There's a handful of employees in the building who 9 will live likely within walking distance, need no parking. There's plenty of bike parking, so 10 people can bike places. We feel very confident that the parking will be minimized. Otherwise 11 we would not build this project. We're not going to build a project that we can't satisfy the 12 demands of parking for. So yes, we will unbundle the parking and that's another thing that 13 we're confident that the parking will not be an issue. 14 15 The tree: We love the tree and we want to keep it. We want to preserve it and maintain it as 16 well as possible. I think it's important to note that we have gone through extensive lengths with 17 our arborist to come up with a Tree Protection Plan. It's also been endorsed and approved by 18 the City arborist as well. So we're hiding nothing. We are confident that we're going to keep the 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. tree. Even the public art for our project is meant to enhance and highlight the fact that the tree 1 is there, so we plan to keep it and we want to keep it forever. 2 3 The daylight plane: We are asking for an exception to this, and I just want the Commissioners to 4 keep in mind that this is a gateway project. The one residential neighbor who is directly 5 impacted by the daylight plane prefers the 6-story option encroaching the daylight plane versus 6 the 4-story option. So yes, we cannot build this project – it's not feasible if we cannot get an 7 exception to the daylight plane. Thank you. 8 9 Chair Chang: Thank you. So before we bring it back to the Commission, I think we need to take a 10 7-minute break. Could we make sure that Mr. Gollinger sticks around? Okay. Great. Thank you – 11 just because I think there's some questions about the tree probably – I'm guessing – from the 12 Commission. So we will see everybody in 7 minutes. Welcome back, everyone. Okay. So we are 13 bringing it back to the Commission for discussion now. I've got 2 lights from colleagues so far. 14 So we'll go with Commissioner Templeton and then Commissioner Hechtman, and everybody 15 else should light it up. 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, Chair. All right. So I've got – we've opened up a lot of 18 questions here that we didn't get to or really think about in the clarifying round. So I'm going to 19 start off with those. My comment about having the deck under the Oak tree is borne out of 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. raising my kids here in Palo Alto and having a lot of activities under the Oak trees in my time 1 here. And I can tell you that it's a dangerous risk because we have a specific type of caterpillar 2 that loves those trees and will interfere with your enjoyment of the deck in a very itchy and 3 unpleasant way. So that's just something to throw out to the designers in case you hadn't had 4 that lovely experience of getting – having children get a whole-body rash after being in the 5 playhouse under the Oak tree for a few hours. 6 7 The other thing is that I found the commentary about the safety of the Oak pretty compelling to 8 the extent that I would like to explore it a little further, and I'm sure many other people up here 9 would. But I'm going to start with a question that perhaps I can ask staff or I can ask the 10 applicant directly if that's allowed. The garage – the underground garage is underneath that 11 parking lot you're not disturbing. So how much of the tree roots are also not disturbed if we're 12 going edge to edge with that underground parking lot? So the point that the applicant made 13 about we're not going to mess with the pavement was comforting until I heard the description 14 of the roots and they go even further out than the can-, the drip line sometimes. And so I was 15 wondering if someone would like to speak to that. While you're coming up here, the thing 16 that's coming to mind is this tree is very likely older than our city. It's very old. It is valuable to 17 us, a city that is named after a tree – not this tree – but just to hammer it home why you're 18 hearing so much about this when we also have a housing crisis. So we have to understand both 19 things happening at the same time. Thank you for coming up. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 David Babby: Sure. My name is David Babby. I am the consulting arborist retained by Smith 2 Development. And as far as the extent of the root impacts go, Coast Live Oaks are generally 3 known to be very tolerant of root impact. So from an arborist's perspective, when you're 4 assessing a tree relative to root loss, you look at the extent of the root mass that is required to 5 be disturbed and, in this case with a parking garage, removed. So we have a 30-foot setback 6 from the trunk for that garage, and that is extremely tolerable limit for this tree. I've dealt with 7 scenarios of trees of this size where you can get within 15 to 20 feet of root loss and they're 8 thriving. One example is Palo Alto Bowl. Some of you might be familiar with that project. It's 9 The Hamilton – or the – sorry – the Hilton Homewood Suites project along El Camino Real. 10 Extensive amount of impacts – 15 feet on one side, about 20 feet on another side, extensive 11 canopy prune as well for the building construction. So – but this – the particular tree in 12 question is healthy enough and vigorous enough that the proposed impacts to the tree are well 13 within the tolerance that you can expect this tree to continue to survive with a reasonable 14 degree of certainty. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: Great. Thank you for sharing that. Can you answer the question 17 about how deep from the parking lot that's not going to be disturbed until the part that will be 18 disturbed in the underground parking? So under the roof deck, the… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. David Babby: Mm-hm. 1 2 Commissioner Templeton: …applicants made a point about not disturbing the asphalt. 3 4 David Babby: So the asphalt – yes. So the section of asphalt that will remain [and we're building 5 on top 137:36]. Yeah. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: What's happening underneath? 8 9 Paul Lettieri: The answer to your question is infinity. There's no garage underneath that deck. 10 That… 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: That's what I wanted to know. 13 14 Paul Lettieri: …part is [just touched 137:44]. If you looked at – if you look at the plans, 15 [inaudible 137:46] that, that's the extent of [inaudible 137:50]. 16 17 Chair Chang: Can you speak into the microphone, please, because we – yeah. Thank you. 18 19 Paul Lettieri: Sorry about that. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: So [inaudible 137:55]. 2 3 Paul Lettieri: If you look at that plan, the extent of the ramp – there you go. You've got it on the 4 screen now. That's the area where excavation happens. That area that's white in between is 5 where the deck is, and that's not being touched. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. And I noticed that this didn't c-, don't leave yet – this didn't 8 come up in the rebuttal commentary, so I'm just going to ask you directly. Some of the people 9 were speaking about incredulity over that 30-foot protected zone and that somehow things 10 would be encroached in there. Can you expound on something that would secure us in 11 understanding that that's not going to happen? 12 13 David Babby: Can you elaborate on that? 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: You say you have a 30-foot radius of Tree Protection Zone. The 16 members of the public showed something that implied likelihood that it would actually only be 17 20 feet. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. David Babby: Yeah. So I have recommended a 20-foot setback from the trunk as being a 1 tolerable limit of root impact, and for the canopy I recommended a 30-foot setback. 2 3 Commissioner Templeton: So the roots will only have a 20-foot protection zone and the canopy 4 will be trimmed… 5 6 David Babby: So… 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: …back to 30 feet? 9 10 David Babby: So the proposed project, however, has decided to implement a 30-foot setback 11 for the roots. 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: [Okay 139:21]. 14 15 David Babby: So through just discussion on past hearings, that's the decision that the design 16 team made. 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: Excellent. And what about the trimming of the branches that will go 1 up against the building and the balconies? Is that – was that an accurate representation of what 2 to expect? 3 4 David Babby: So my recommendation was to set back at least 30 feet from the building and 5 then the additional less that – minus 5 to 6 feet to accommodate for construction scaffolding 6 and so forth. And then the balconies would be constructed now within that 5 to 6 foot inside 7 away from the building towards the tree. Those balconies are going to be erected per the 8 general contractor. They're going to be erected in a way that we don't have to use construction 9 scaffolding closer to the tree than those balconies. So that 5 to 6 foot wide swath towards the 10 tree away from the building will be there for construction scaffolding only. Once those 11 balconies are in place, so additional pruning done by the residents would be something that 12 would have to be reviewed by someone like myself. And I think based on my assessment of the 13 tree, there's opportunity to make some nice, thin – small pruning cuts – very highly selective 14 pruning cuts to achieve clearance. So that's something that we'd have to look at, but there's 15 certainly opportunity. 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. Great. 18 19 David Babby: Mm-hm. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: I'm going to move on to my next question. Don't leave because this 2 one would be for you as well. Three feet enough for windy days for the part that's in the front 3 tilted part that – raised bed that tilts down towards Middlefield. Is 3-feet depth going to be 4 enough to secure trees on a day like today where even my fence was almost blown over? 5 6 David Babby: Mm-hm. 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: We had a lot of wind, so… 9 10 David Babby: Yes. Yeah. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: Three feet? 13 14 David Babby: Three feet will be sufficient. Yep. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. Thank you. Now my question's for staff. Can you state again 17 your understanding of the FEMA requirement and to whom you will be listening for expertise 18 on the requirements that FEMA has on this project? Is that something we're going to decide or 19 is that something someone else decides? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Emily Kallas: The Public Works Engineering Department as a part of their review looks at 2 conformance with our local standards as well as standards required at the state and federal 3 level. It is our understanding that as a part of what our Public Works Engineering Department 4 requires, that this building will need to be 25 percent non-residential for the purpose of 5 providing the parking below grade. So if that were to change as a part of your recommendation, 6 it would potentially require loss of parking, providing above-grade parking, which would go 7 against our objective design standards for downtown for this type of building. That's the type of 8 thing that would need to be considered. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. So you're not asking us to decide whether or not FEMA rules 11 that are stated by the City are applicable to this project? You're saying that is not on the table? 12 13 Emily Kallas: Correct. 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. Thank you. What about the street-level parking requirement 16 that was brought up by the member of the public? 17 18 Emily Kallas: The public comment I'm thinking of was regarding the loading space. Is that – 19 okay. So that is reflected in Attachment D as one of the exceptions that they are asking for from 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the zoning code. I'm sorry that was not more clearly stated in the report, but that was 1 something that we were aware of. Any project that provides more than 50 housing units is 2 required to provide an on-site loading space based on the zoning code. However, as a part of 3 the PHZ application, they are requesting that space be on the street instead. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: And does staff have a position on that? 6 7 Emily Kallas: The Office of Transportation did review it and acknowledged that it is something 8 that is a discretionary part of this application. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. And then as far as the parking requirements you just 11 mentioned a moment ago, I'm doing to dig in a little deeper – no pun intended – trying to 12 understand what is within our scope. Could we just, for example – I'm going to give an extreme, 13 so don't pass out anybody – could we just say no parking, this underground thing isn't going to 14 happen, we can talk about the housing? Is that possible? 15 16 Emily Kallas: As this is a fully discretionary project where the zoning requirements are set as a 17 part of this decision, you would be able to allow for no parking to be the requirement. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: Interesting. Okay. That is my questions for now. I will head it back 1 over to the Chair. Thank you. 2 3 Chair Chang: All right. Commissioner Hechtman. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. So actually in this first round, I want to really start with 6 some context. And I'm doing this in part for the neighbors who were good enough to come out 7 in force tonight, and I appreciate that they did that, that they selected a couple of eloquent 8 spokespersons for them and that they stayed to support. I see some of them have left now, but 9 the hour is getting late. But I really think it's important – I don't know what my fellow 10 Commissioners are going to talk about tonight, but from my perspective I think context here is 11 important and this project is not like many other projects that come to the City where it's a 12 discretionary project. The City can say yes; they can say no. And if they say no, the applicant 13 goes back to the drawing board. Because here – and it was mentioned earlier – we have 14 something called a Builder's Remedy project that the applicant has waiting in the wings, and I 15 just want to read one sentence from our staff report about that. If the application is not 16 approved, the applicant has the option of reverting to the Builder's Remedy application which 17 includes a proposed 88-unit development with the same amount of office in a 6-story building 18 and without maintaining the special setback which is along Middlefield. So that context is 19 important up here on the Commission because the neighbors have made clear their concerns 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. about this project and in my comments, I don't want you to think I'm unsympathetic. But 1 there's a scenario here where you win the battle and lose the war because 88 units is more 2 than 66. I don't know what that plan looks like. I suspect it doesn't have more parking. Maybe it 3 even has less. And so we have to look for ways, I believe, to make this project that's before us 4 tonight as good as we can without breaking the applicant and turning them towards their 5 Builder's Remedy application. And so that's really what will be reflected in my comments. 6 7 I do appreciate that this has grown from a 4 to a 6-story building, but in part, that was in 8 response to comments that have come from the public and the City to preserve that 9 Middlefield setback. So that pushed whatever building was going to be there away from 10 Middlefield. Another thing, we wanted at least larger housing. The prior project had 63. Our 11 City Council approved the Housing Element last year, which calls for this as an opportunity site 12 for 65. So we're in that range, but what we're seeing with this current project compared to the 13 4-story version is the units are generally larger. We have 30 1 and 2-bedroom units here, where 14 we had 15 before. And so I appreciate that the applicants have done that. I'm also appreciative 15 that we have 3 of those BMR units are extremely low which is a – every time we can get an 16 extremely low in a non-100 percent housing project, that's a big win. And so you've got to make 17 the numbers work to do it. The applicant has figured out a way to do it here, and I suspect that 18 it might have something to do with the fact that they are retaining office– that's the proposal 19 here and in the Builder's Remedy because as one of the public speakers mentioned, the office 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. rents can actually – because of their profitability – can allow a builder to take a little more loss 1 on a BMR. And so they're not unrelated. If you scalpel out the office – if we could do that – I 2 suspect this project doesn't survive in its current form just as 5 stories because I bet it won't 3 pencil out. 4 5 I wanted to ask a question of staff about the tree. So my understanding from the staff report is 6 that the applicant's arborist – well, there's an issue about this tree and its relation to 9 7 balconies on the tree side of the building. And if I'm understanding correctly, the applicant's 8 arborist has – his report says that the balconies can be there. And in fact, he just spoke and 9 explained how you have to trim back the tree 5, 6 feet from the face of the building to allow the 10 building face to be built, and then they'll basically put the balconies in that space without 11 having to cut back farther to do that. In any event, the applicant's arborist says those 9 12 balconies can safely be there in relation to the tree, and the City's reviewing arborist agrees 13 with that conclusion. But the ARB's recommendation was to remove those 9 balconies. So I just 14 wanted to make sure I have that background right. 15 16 Emily Kallas: Yes. That is correct. 17 18 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. I'll weigh in on that point. We have people with 19 training who are consultants and experts for a reason. When we're talking about architectural 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. design, I wouldn't presume to tell the ARB their business because they're trained and I'm not. 1 And when it comes to trees, I want to respect the results of independent arborists who if they 2 say it's safe, I think that I'm wanting to be supportive of that in part because those 9 balconies 3 are open space for 9 units. It looks like the average balcony is 96 square feet, so that's roughly 4 10 x 10. I think some of them are as small as 69. But that's an important amenity. And so if the 5 evidence before us was that it's not safe for the tree to do it, then I'd be supportive of not 6 having those balconies, but since the evidence before us from the experts is that it is safe, I 7 think we should have that. I think that that is important private open space for those units. It 8 adds to the overall open space of the building. 9 10 Let's see. I do think – just one more thing and then I'll come back for more in a second round. I 11 do think– given the narrowness of Byron, the possibility of regular blockage of traffic for 12 deliveries does concern me. It seems like we have an opportunity here at the entrance to the 13 service area. I understand there are limitations to that. Like when the trash has to be rolled out, 14 it has to be on the street I suspect – but I do think that we should explore how much of the time 15 that off-street area could be used for loading and unloading, deliveries and those sorts of 16 things. So I'll stop there and I'll come back in a second round. Thank you. 17 18 Chair Chang: Commissioner Peterson. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. I have a quick question for staff, and then I have a 1 question for the applicant maybe. So for staff, I saw a requirement – a section on dewatering. 2 Are contaminants an issue in dewatering in this part of the City? 3 4 Emily Kallas: I don't believe this project is on a site that requires any type of remediation, so no. 5 Additionally, the Public Works Engineering Department has standard regulations for dewatering 6 which will be followed. 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. Thank you. It didn't look like there was an old gas station there 9 or anything like that. So – thank you. On the noise – I saw a section on noise. Most of the noise I 10 saw there is talking more of maybe like the residents, but there is construction noise. And I saw 11 excavation and excavation – the method. It doesn't say what method will be used, if it's 12 shoulder pile, lagging, or if it's sheet pile. But that could be something that has some kind of 13 loud soil retention system going in. Is there a requirement on noise for construction projects? 14 And this one seems to be adjacent to a sensitive site. 15 16 Emily Kallas: Yes. Construction noise was analyzed as a part of the Environmental Impact 17 Report. We do have the CEQA consultants from Rincon, Katie Green and Abe Leider, if you have 18 any more specific questions about construction noise, but it was analyzed and mitigation 19 measures will be applied to ensure that it is below significant levels. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. Any – they're on the line now? 2 3 Emily Kallas: Yes. They're on Zoom. 4 5 Commissioner Peterson: Could I hear about the mitigation methods quickly? 6 7 Katie Green: Yes. This is Katie Green with Rincon Consultants who helped the City prepare the 8 EIR. Can you hear me? 9 10 Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 11 12 Katie Green: Great. There are 2 b-, mitigation measures. There's a construction noise reduction 13 measures that includes a construction noise control plan that would include measures like 14 mufflers, silencing, signage, a noise complaint coordinator, construction operating hours. And 15 then there's a second measure specifically related to construction vibration for a construction 16 vibration control plan. If you have further questions, I can definitely answer more on that. 17 18 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. I appreciate it. As an engineer formerly in charge of the 19 noise, I appreciate that work. Also dust – I did not see anything about dust control on this 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. project. Again, kind of – I don't know if the adjacent facility – what the air conditioning is. I 1 know some of the Palo Alto residences don't necessarily have air conditioning and heating so 2 much because it's a mild climate. So a lot of times it's relying on open windows. So dust 3 becomes a bigger issue. Is there a dust mitigation specific to this project? 4 5 Emily Kallas: Dust gets analyzed as a part of construction air quality, and this project will be 6 required to meet all the area Air Quality Management District – although is that the one that 7 recently changed its name? That's not important. But it will be required to meet those standard 8 requirements. 9 10 Jennifer Armer: Yeah. And there are standard requirements for construction that have to do 11 with watering down the trucks as they're doing their excavation, etc., to reduce dust. 12 13 Commissioner Peterson: And I'm guessing it's not within our purview to request it, but I don't 14 know if it's – is it standard policy that if a resident asks for an air filter unit to be placed in their 15 apartment to mitigate the dust, is that a standard request that is part of the project? 16 17 Jennifer Armer: I'm not aware of that as a mitigation measure available. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: Okay. I must have been lucky because I asked for those when they 1 built near my apartment. And let's see. On the basement where it expa-, extends under the 2 setback. I know I heard some questions on that, that potentially the street could be widened. I 3 guess it's Middlefield. And that would put the basement underneath the roadway. Is that 4 correct? 5 6 Emily Kallas: Citywide special setbacks are potential places where the Office of Transportation 7 may go through processes that would allow street widening. This does include procuring the 8 land in the special setback through some type of easement across the multiple properties along 9 the corridor. There are no current plans to do that along Middlefield, but it is definitely 10 something should be taken into consideration. 11 12 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. I've worked in downtown Reno, and street construction there 13 included casinos that were under the street unexpectedly, so it's not completely unusual. And 14 so then that brings my next question. Is – does Palo Alto – so because I'm new and I don't know 15 Palo Alto and the – necessarily the county restrictions – do we have a responsible contractor 16 ordinance in Palo Alto or anything like that? 17 18 Jennifer Armer: I'm not aware of one. No. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: Okay. And then I quickly searched search terms through our general 1 plan for – do we have an economic development provisions on – for workforce development 2 and education, those type of things? 3 4 Emily Kallas: One component of the PHZ process and possibly other policy is an intent to create 5 more housing than jobs. And so that was looked at as a part of this project. These 66 housing 6 units compared to the 9,000 square feet of office will be a net gain of housing compared to 7 jobs. 8 9 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. And then this might be a question for the contractor. I don't – 10 I'm not familiar with KSH Architecture. Are you local? 11 12 Ted Korth: Yeah. San Francisco. 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. So you're familiar with the apprenticeship building trades? 15 16 Ted Korth: In terms of who we hire? 17 18 Commissioner Peterson: Right. So the high-quality construction workforce in Silicon Valley. Not 19 everyone's familiar with it. I meet international construction companies that are visiting 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Campus and things like that, and they're usually completely amazed at the infrastructure we 1 have for education for our workforce. Apparently it's somewhat unusual even globally that we 2 have such a highly educated construction workforce here of high skill, and I think they call it the 3 high road construction platform. 4 5 Ted Korth: We – as architects, we bring in really high-quality architects and designers from all 6 over the world actually. It's a place people want to come to work. 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: That was my question I had early on was if it was a concrete building, a 9 wood timber, or steel. And I understand residential for concrete is somewhat unusual, so I was 10 kind of guessing steel or timber. 11 12 Ted Korth: Yeah. And it's still TBD. We haven't sorted it out because it's – every – financial 13 implications that are – it's a study that we have to go through. 14 15 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. Yeah. I understand. Let's see. And then with that I would just 16 recommend – I did see that the representative from the carpenter's union's here, Local 405. So 17 if you are going with timber, I'm sure that's probably a good person to talk with to get some 18 inside contacts for good workforce contacts. Thank you. That's it. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Commissioner Summa? 1 2 Commissioner Summa: Thank you, Chair. I want to start out by thanking the applicant and all of 3 our speakers tonight. It's very helpful to hear from all of you. And I also want to thank the 4 applicant for listening to the various reviews and providing more housing units and with deeper 5 levels of affordability and more diversity in unit size. I think that's very helpful. And I think a 6 genuine effort to save and protect the tree – and I have some specific comments after that 7 about that, but I'm going to keep this at a high level. But I think – so that's the good news from 8 me. I think that there's a lot of things that need really to be worked out with this project. It is 9 very much a project that is straining at the seams to fit in this parcel, and we really need the 10 housing and appreciate it, but it has to work in the neighborhood too. 11 12 So one of my main concerns around this is really the office component. I feel it would be a 13 more successful project without the office component, and it's not really clear to me from our 14 discussion tonight – I'm hoping we can get more clarity on this – whether it's an absolute 15 requirement of – building requirement of FEMA or if it's a requirement to build in that manner 16 to apply for the federal flood insurance. And I will note the flood risk here is very low – and also 17 if there's any mitigating process. Most government processes have mitigations or waivers that 18 can be built in. This is right on the edge of the flooding, and I note that The Hamilton when it 19 was built, this was already a law – a federal law – and The Hamilton has underground parking. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. So I don't know exactly what the issue is or whether the original law has been amended, and I 1 wasn't finding the latest information online. And to be honest, I felt that the staff report didn't 2 have a f-, a very full discussion about this so we could understand it. In my 8 years on the 3 Planning Commission, I've never heard of this law, so I was kind of astonished. 4 5 And dewatering is not just for flooding. Dewatering can be a constant situation depending on 6 ground water. The building you're sitting in has been dewatered constantly since it was built. So 7 it's a ground water issue. 8 9 I'm also curious about the underground garage going to the property line, if there will have to 10 be underpinnings on the – in the public right of way or if it can be built without that. I didn't – 11 that's usually discussed with projects that want to extend to the property line, and if I didn't see 12 that in the staff report, forgive me. This is a big issue, and we don't have very long to review it. 13 14 So I did want to – I do think the parking and circulation generally in this area is going to be very 15 difficult. Byron – I used to know someone who lived at the Byron – I mean at The Hamilton, and 16 Byron Street is really difficult because it's quite narrow. And in this day and age, we get more 17 and more deliveries, not just of goods but of pick-up and drop-off of people, and thus, I believe 18 the on-site loading spaces are more important than ever. And if we have to designate it in the 19 public right of way, I don't know if we have a policy to handle that yet, but it's definitely going 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. to be absolutely necessary, not just for this building and its residents, but for the residents of 1 The Hamilton. 2 3 So some other things. I think that – I'm not sure if it's being fully waterproofed to the extent 4 that it can be underground and if that can then cause a waiver of the office requirement. So I 5 think that's kind of unresolved. Let's see. Yeah. The – being able to improve – have future 6 roadway improvements, both for bicycles but also the potential – as we've discussed – this 7 body and I discussed with the 2 – my 2 colleagues that I could speak to before this meeting – 8 the situation going northbound on University, there might be – there's sort of a need already 9 for a left turn lane there. There isn't really room to put it there right now. And the situation – 10 without getting into th-, describing how circulation works at an intersection when we're not all 11 there sitting looking at it – is that a lot of people are going right there to go to the highway and 12 – but it's not a right turn only lane. And the through lane, which is the left lane, that is – actually 13 within a block you have to get in the right lane to go – keep going north. And it's really difficult. 14 And there's going to be more and more people trying to go left there. So I think engineering the 15 underground under the special setback is very important. And I will note also that on our recent 16 report on the Bicycle and Pedestrian Master Plan, they had indicated that there would be bike 17 lanes potentially both on University and Middlefield. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. So we're in this situation, not just with utilizing parcels at denser levels, but also in utilizing our 1 streets in the multimodal way that we'd like to where we're trying to squeeze a size 10 foot into 2 a size 6 shoe, and it's really problematic. And it works for the first project sometimes, but then 3 as more and more projects want the same privileges – and this is discre-, a discretionary 4 privilege – you get to the point where the neighborhood doesn't work anymore. I was very 5 interested in the letter and the comments by a member of the public who thought this was a 6 good opportunity – not that this in our purview tonight – to figure out what will be going on 7 with the residential parking zone here and the use of the public parking garage. But I think 8 that's outside of the purview but just – I thought it was a good comment. 9 10 And then I would like clarification from our – from staff on the Builder's Remedy because it was 11 stated by our City Attorney's office publicly that the Builder's Remedy did not apply to the City 12 of Palo Alto as we had already – that it didn't apply when our City Council adopted it. I will note, 13 however, that I think the precise timing of this project – of the new project, which is the PHZ, so 14 called, which is a PC – that the new project came right – about a month before this – the 15 Council adopted that. So – and by that I mean that this project was sent back because it was 16 incomplete 9 times before it was finally complete. And that completion project was in April of 17 the year, and in March of that year the City Council adopted and felt that we had – so I want to 18 confirm that my timing is right and that where this falls on the Builder's Remedy side of things 19 c-, so… 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Jennifer Armer: I think Albert's available… 2 3 Commissioner Summa: Yes. 4 5 Jennifer Armer: …to talk on that. 6 7 Albert Yang: I can speak to that. So this project submitted its SB 330 pre-application in May of 8 2024 and the City's Housing Element was certified by HCD in August. And as a result of AB 1893, 9 which was passed just this last legislative session, the legislature clarified that if you get your SB 10 330 pre-application in before HCD has determined your Housing Element to be substantially 11 compliant, then the Builder's Remedy is available. So that recent legislation changed the rules. 12 This project is subject – is able to utilize the Builder's Remedy. 13 14 Commissioner Summa: Okay. Thank you for clarifying that because it's kind of tricky. I don't 15 know if anybody has an answer about underpinnings or using the public right of way since the 16 garage goes right to the property line. 17 18 Emily Kallas: The conceptual plans for the purpose of the decision, since they don't include fully 19 engineered plans, we do not have a good sense of how the underpinnings and structure for the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. garage may encroach or may not encroach. There are techniques that would – could minimize 1 this. 2 3 Commissioner Summa: Okay. It's just that for other projects [inaudible 172:06] that abut where 4 the need is to go another private property, it's part of the negotiation because you're not 5 obligated – the other property is not obligated to provide that. So I was just curious about that. 6 7 So I'm – and then I have a strong interest in all the glass on the top and the glass on all the 8 balconies being bird friendly. I think that that's kind of the standard the City is moving, and it's 9 certainly best practices at this point in time because bird collisions don't just happen at high 10 levels. And I'm not a bird expert, but I have – we've had a lot of discussion about this recently. 11 So that would be a very welcome improvement to the project. And I'm going to stop for now. 12 13 Chair Chang: Commissioner Ji and then Vice-Chair Akin. 14 15 Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. I'd also like to thank the applicant for submitting this 16 project. I'm extremely excited about the location. I think the location is awesome. It's super 17 close to Caltrain. It's super close to downtown. As one of the supposed young people that were 18 mentioned that want to live in Palo Alto, I'd love to be able to live at some place like this. I'm 19 also really excited about the changes as previously mentioned by Commissioner Hechtman and 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa about extremely low income. I think those are really, really exciting. Also 1 want to mention and applaud the work to protect the tree as is. I'd also like to thank members 2 of the public for coming to speak out tonight. Your voice has been heard, as previously 3 mentioned by other Commissioners. 4 5 I just want to clarify a question that was asked by Commissioner Templeton previously about 6 the Tree Protection Zone, the 30 feet. I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. So 7 we're protecting 30 feet. However, due to building the – I guess constructing the building at 30 8 feet you will have to trim more than 30 feet? Is that c-, into the 30-foot radius – is that correct, 9 applicant? Or – yeah – or the City arborist, either way. 10 11 David Babby: Yeah. So [inaudible 174:24] the building, you'll need additional space to erect the 12 scaffolding so you can do the exterior work around the building. So that's the reason why you 13 need an additional 5 to 6 feet beyond the existing building. Does that answer your question? 14 15 Commissioner Ji: So just to clarify, the reality is that you're actually going to be trimming up to 16 about 25 feet or something like that as opposed to 30 feet, because the building extends to 30 17 feet [inaudible 174:54]. 18 19 David Babby: Correct. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Ji: Okay. 2 3 David Babby: That's correct. Yes. 4 5 Commissioner Ji: For the canopy? 6 7 Chair Chang: Can I also understand… 8 9 David Babby: Correct. 10 11 Chair Chang: …what's happening underground because – so how much space beyond the edge 12 of the garage needs to be… 13 14 David Babby: So the root zone is protected up to the garage walls. 15 16 Chair Chang: Well, right – no. But it's sort of the same question that Commissioner Summa 17 asked about using public space in order – presumably you're constructing the garage up to 30 18 feet, there needs to be some disruption of things at 30 feet and an inch. Right? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. David Babby: Sure. Sure. 1 2 Chair Chang: So how far do we need to go? 3 4 David Babby: So in my report, I do make mention that you can have maximum 18, 24 inches 5 from that wall limit for over exca-, for any excavation needed for piers. So you're going to have 6 shoring along the [deltas 175:57] of the garage and on the straight edge of the garage, so that's 7 all going to be shored. And so we are working with the general contractor in identifying how 8 best to achieve that without the need to over-excavate. So you will – we will be utilizing shoring 9 to accomplish that effort. 10 11 Commissioner Ji: Thank you. I'm going to move on to a different type of question, so thank you. 12 Okay. I want to ask staff – so in Attachment E – okay. I realize the labeling is confusing. It's 13 Packet Page 55 labeled as Attachment E, although the title of the page says Attachment D. So in 14 the section with the max total floor area in the current plan where we have the other as I 15 previously asked about with the fitness center, is the 70 – is this other considered non-16 residential use and therefore – yeah. Is it considered non-residential use because it's shared? 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Emily Kallas: So the way that the zoning code defines the gross floor area is not precisely the 1 same as how non-residential space is being counted for the purpose of determining if a below-2 grade parking garage is allowed in the flood zone. 3 4 Commissioner Ji: [Inaudible 172:26]. 5 6 Emily Kallas: I want to stay on your topic and not switch to a different question that was asked, 7 so I'm trying to keep that in mind, but… 8 9 Commissioner Ji: [Inaudible 177:31]. I think you know where I'm coming from, which is the 10 question is is the fitness area and other amenities count for the 25 percent non-residential for 11 FEMA – the FEMA calculation? 12 13 Emily Kallas: Correct. Yes. It is being counted as non-residential for that purpose. 14 15 Commissioner Ji: Okay. So to kind of just jump on that, as probably previously mentioned in my 16 disclosure, I would also like to see significantly reduced, if no office at this location. And I did a 17 quick back of the napkin calculation on this other versus residential on Attachment E, and as of 18 right now, there already is – the residential's only 81 percent of the total square footage. And 19 so even – I know that we're not here to make a determination on FEMA, and I'd love to hear 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. more from Public Works or other members of staff about the discrepancy between my 1 conversation this morning with FEMA and what's been written. But since that's already 81 2 percent, I think that if we determine that 75 percent non-residential is required to build based 3 on our local codes, I think that we could significantly still reduce the replacement office space 4 since the other criteria is already significantly cutting into that. So that's my comment there. 5 6 I also want to just move over to talk a little bit about parking. So as mentioned by 7 Commissioner Summa, there – The Hamilton has an underground garage, but also I believe that 8 one of the buildings on the University – like in the Lytton Gardens block also has an 9 underground garage which I also believe is in the AH flood zone and I think is residential. I am 10 not sure between convalescent whether or not that's considered residential, so I'm not going to 11 comment specifically on that, but – it looks like she has a comment on that. 12 13 Emily Kallas: No. I'm waiting… 14 15 Commissioner Ji: Okay. 16 17 Emily Kallas: …for you to be done, but I will respond when – yeah. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Ji: Yeah. So I just wanted to question whether or not these were also applic-, if 1 there was any commentary about these other garages. 2 3 Emily Kallas: I know from a separate architectural review application that was done at Lytton 4 Gardens a couple of years ago – they were just looking into replacing their siding – that that 5 below-grade garage did predate certain requirements and that as a part of that application they 6 were going to be required to do some upgrades. I also – I didn't look into The Hamilton 7 requirements, but something else that happened over the last 4 years that this got processed is 8 there used to be a process called a CLOMA or LOMA. I do not know what those stand for. 9 However, it was a process to remove properties or portions of properties from the flood zone, 10 and FEMA stopped doing that. So that was no longer an option for this property. 11 12 Commissioner Ji: So just to be clear, you're basically saying that the idea of this acronym that 13 we all don't really know about is that suppose The Hamilton was in the AH flood zone. They 14 applied something through this acronym and now they are considered not part of the flood 15 zone, and therefore, they're allowed to build their garage. Is that generally my understanding of 16 what you're saying? 17 18 Emily Kallas: It is a possibility, but I did not look into if that was what happened. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Ji: Okay. I think – I guess my general comment just on this general topic is that 1 this is something I think I'd like to see more information about as we continue to discuss this. 2 3 Now I'm going to pivot over to parking. And I also have been to Byron Street and it is a bit of a 4 mess to go through. And I think that – so I think that one of the things that I'd like to see 5 potentially is a traffic and/or parking study done on Byron. So I think a previous public 6 commenter mentioned that The Hamilton right now is about 60 residences. I don't know that 7 off the top of my head. Okay. Someone is shaking their head. But – okay – so there is a certain 8 amount – and I expect that potentially the – with the 60 units here, we'd see a significant 9 increase in the number – amount of traffic here. And before – because we're – the project here 10 is asking for significant exemptions, my back of the napkin math says that assuming that we 11 count – I know that in the code we count ADA parking spaces as 2 spaces, but if we were to 12 count each parking space as 1 space, they're actually asking for only about 68 percent of the 13 parking that should be required at the site. And so if – with a reduction that significant, I'd love 14 to see a parking study done. I know that a different public commenter mentioned that the 15 Cowper/Webster Garage may be underutilized and that might be something that we could 16 potentially leverage as a part of this exercise. But because we're – this is a discretionary project, 17 I'd love to see some more data on the parking and traffic situation. And I'll hold off on the rest 18 of my comments at this time. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Vice-Chair Akin? 1 2 Vice-Chair Akin: Thank you, Chair. Luckily a lot of the comments I was going to make have 3 already been covered by my fellow Commissioners. I'm very conscious of the context that 4 Commissioner Hechtman described and Commissioner Summa had us elaborate. So I'm looking 5 for ways to mitigate as many of the issues with the project that I can find that are not 6 tremendously impactful. But that said, checking the EIR, we're expecting another 300 more car 7 trips per day from this project. The current condition of Byron is clearly marginal already, so 8 when the opportunity arises that we can do a traffic study and potential reconfiguration of 9 Byron, we should do it. And so one of the things I would ask of my fellow Commissioners is in 10 our final recommendation to Council that we just make note that that's likely to be needed. 11 12 My approach was going to be to suggest 2 possible new conditions of approval. Regarding the 13 special setback, as has been noted, there's already a proposal for a protected bike lane on 14 Middlefield. Judging from the conversations we've had here tonight, there are plenty of other 15 projects we might want to build on that corner: A bus stop, a loading zone, a shuttle stop, a 16 micromobility station, or even some combination of those things. Most of those are going to 17 require a full-width lane that's capable of supporting reasonable traffic like a bus. There is a 18 very good chance that the Builder's Remedy project at 80 Willow is going to cause a major 19 increase in traffic on Middlefield. So we are probably not going to be able to get that space by 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. reducing the number of lanes on Middlefield that are in use today. All of that convinces me that 1 it would be wise to make sure we can use as much of the special setback as we might need for 2 one of these projects. So the condition of approval that I would submit for my fellow 3 Commissioners to consider is that we require that the building be engineered so that it's 4 feasible to widen Middlefield by 11 feet, which is the width of a VTA bus, on the side nearest 5 the building. Now my glancing at the plans suggests that this is a completely practical thing to 6 do, but we're at too early a stage to say for sure. So I would like to try making that a condition 7 of approval to make sure that it's investigated and completed if at all possible. 8 9 The second COA I'd like to talk about regards parking, and Mr. Buchanan covered a good bit of 10 the background material here. This project is solidly inside the downtown residential 11 preferential parking program district. That means everyone living and working in the building is 12 eligible for a permit in this district. Residents can park anywhere. Employees could park in any 13 particular zone, though not in all zones. And the reason I asked the question earlier about what 14 an unbundled parking space would lease for is that the only information we have had in a 15 project presented to us so far for unbundled parking spaces was an estimate of $150 a month. 16 Now that amounts to $1800 a year, whereas a resident permit to parking anywhere in the 17 parking district costs $50. An employee parking permit anywhere for the district amounts to 18 about $1000 a year, and a reduced-income employee permit amounts to about $260. So if the 19 price of the bundled pa-, unbundled parking spaces is set too high, we've created a tremendous 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. financial incentive, particularly for the low-income people, to not park in the building but 1 instead to park on the streets in the surrounding neighborhoods. I think that's going to result in 2 poor utilization of the spaces in the building, and I also think it's unethical to push the safety 3 hazards and competition for parking into other people's neighborhoods. 4 5 So how to fix that. Well, one possibility that I think we should consider is a condition of 6 approval stating that the lease rates for the spaces in this project be limited to the 7 corresponding RPP permit rates for the person doing the leasing. So that way we cover all of 8 the cases that are in the RPP and the low-income people, the standard-income people, the 9 residents, and we make sure that there's no financial incentive to go elsewhere. Now I think 10 this project is very likely under-parked so there is still going to be some overflow, but by 11 keeping the financial incentive to park in the building rather than elsewhere, I think we can 12 minimize that. So those are the 2 COAs I'd like us to consider: Making sure the building is 13 engineered for the expansion of Middlefield and making sure the pricing on the unbundled 14 spaces is consistent with what RPP requires so that the financial incentives are balanced. Okay. 15 Thank you. 16 17 Chair Chang: Thank you. I will do my first round before we go for a second round. So I wanted 18 to thank the – thank all the public commenters for coming. I appreciate your time. And also 19 thank the applicant for being responsive to our discussion before about the setback, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. particularly on Middlefield, less – unfortunately less responsive on University. And I'm really 1 pleased to see the increase in unit size and the much deeper affordable – affordabilities – 2 affordability. It's also great in general that this project consolidates lots because that allows us 3 to get more housing in. 4 5 My concerns for this project are around particularly in light of the SB 330 application. I'm not 6 concerned about height. I am much more concerned about the impact of – the spillover 7 impacts of what's going on on this property affecting the circulation and the safety around the 8 property. And just as with the first time we saw this project come before the PTC, one of the big 9 sticking points for me is the Middlefield setback and University setback. As my colleagues 10 mentioned, we just saw 2 weeks ago a bike/ped transportation plan that showed Middlefield as 11 the network – as part of the – a key part of the network. And, again, as my colleagues have 12 mentioned, there's going to be more development along Middlefield, potentially a really huge 13 development just across the border in Menlo Park. And so right now there is a pedestrian 14 stairwell, I believe, that's either 15 feet, 8 inches or 15 feet, 7 inches away from the edge of the 15 property on the Middlefield side. So while it's lovely that there's a 24-foot setback for the 16 building, the fact that there's this hole in the ground in order to access the parking, that 17 presents a problem where we can't actually use the full 24 feet of the setback. So I want to – 18 that – that's potentially a problem because of – and I understand that we heard from the 19 Director of Planning before. Yes, Mr. Rius. Would you like to say something? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Rafael Rius: I'm sorry. No, I don't want to interrupt. I'm just getting ready in case you had a… 2 3 Chair Chang: I'll keep going then. 4 5 Rafael Rius: [Inaudible 192:24]. 6 7 Chair Chang: As the Director of Planning said before, we don't currently have a bike lane 8 planned there. But this isn't about the full length of Middlefield, because, again, I saw the traffic 9 – the image that the applicant presented showing various other setbacks. Part of the reason 10 why we have a special setback is that our predecessors in their great wisdom saw that 11 Middlefield is an important street in our city and, therefore, put that special setback there even 12 though there were other buildings there at the time, hoping that when new buildings are built, 13 they don't encroach on that setback so that we can do things with it. Now this particular block 14 is more important than most other blocks in the area because it is a gateway because it's right 15 at University and Middlefield and Senior Corner. And so the setback here is valuable not just for 16 a bike lane, not just for a bus lane, not necessarily widening the entire length of Middlefield, 17 but really important for, say, a left turn lane, for pedestrian islands, for all sorts of things that 18 Commissioner Akin also mentioned. And I'm concerned that we don't have the full 24 feet. That 19 said, I think it would be really important – staff had flagged that we may want an easement, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. and I think that that would be an important thing to add. And I'm not sure how we go about 1 doing that. Is it a condition of approval that we would do? I'm seeing nods from Ms. Armer. So 2 that's another condition of approval that I would add, in addition to the critical piece of making 3 sure that we could actually put roads or a bus on top of this garage. It needs to be engineered 4 as – engineered properly. And I would say more than just the 11 feet because I don't know 5 what the needs are going to be at this really critical corner. So that's one thing. 6 7 I agree with the comments about Byron. I'm really concerned about the lack of a loading zone. 8 Again, it might be less of an issue were this project somewhere else, but this is at 2 of our 9 busiest streets in the whole City downtown. So that's a problem. 10 11 And then I also wanted to ask – then the other issue – so aside from kind of circulation – is the 12 tree. I understand that the tree bond would be basically around $200,000 – $150,000 to 13 $200,000, which in the scope of this project is not very much money. And I went and visited the 14 site and it was humbling, literally awesome. When you see a volcano erupt, it's awesome 15 because it's – you feel so small. It's the same experience with this tree. It's kind of – it's really 16 humbling to be next to something so old. And once this tree is gone, it's priceless. So I'm not 17 sure what we're allowed to do. And if the applicant is really as interested – if all of this is good 18 and we're not actually concerned about this tree dying, then it shouldn't be a problem, I don't 19 think, to increase the value of the bond. So that's just an idea. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 And then I did want to have Mr. Gol-, I don't know if Mr. Gollinger is still here. Yeah. Could you 2 please – hi, Mr. Gollinger. Could you please speak to – I don't want to pit arborist against 3 arborist, but I just want more opinions just because of the humbling nature of this tree. I want 4 to make sure that – I know that you've taken a look at the plans and you think this tree will 5 survive. I want to understand from you if you could talk to us a little bit more about that and 6 what gives you confidence. My second question with respect to the tree is I noticed in the 7 arborist reports that there were pretty different values, maybe 20 percentage points about the 8 percentage of… 9 10 Peter Gollinger: The condition and the health? Yeah. 11 12 Chair Chang: Yeah. The condition of the tree and explain h-, why you might have arrived at the 13 different conclusion. And then finally wanted to – you can ask too. I'm getting whispers from 14 my fellow Commissioners. I also – now I lost my train of thought, but that's okay. Why don't you 15 go ahead with that and I will remember what I wanted to ask you. 16 17 Peter Gollinger: Okay. So one of the reasons that we were comfortable signing off on this 18 project is Mr. Babby's conditions for basically mitigating for the tree during construction were 19 very thorough. He addressed a lot of the potential situations that could arise and provided 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. basically treatments and preventative measures. Additionally as this goes through and gets 1 closer and goes to a building permit phase, we'll ge-, we'll fine tune some of those details. So 2 right now without knowing the exact construction methods, it's difficult to be very specific, but 3 there is recommendations in there for distances for utilities from the tree basically trying to 4 avoid putting anything within the TPZ and providing recommendations for how to put things in 5 the TPZ if it's necessary. The differences… 6 7 Chair Chang: So can I ask you about the TPZ specifically because… 8 9 Peter Gollinger: Yes. 10 11 Chair Chang: According to the width of the tree and the formula that we have for determining 12 what the TPZ is, it would be significantly larger, I think 41 feet instead of 30 feet. 13 14 Peter Gollinger: Right. 15 16 Chair Chang: And so is – you talked about the mitigations making you feel more comfortable, 17 but why are you comfortable shrinking the TPZ by 25 percent? 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Peter Gollinger: Mostly because the impacts are strictly on one portion of the radius of the tree. 1 So let's say this tree was centrally located on the parcel and there were going to be impacts in 2 multiple areas. We would definitely not feel comfortable reducing the TPZ by that much. But as 3 the impacts to this tree are basically only on one side, and if you look at the – I don't have a 4 copy of the plan here – but there's actually going to be more than 30 feet protected on the 5 angles off to the side. So basically if we have recommendations from the project arborist that 6 are in line with what we feel is acceptable for the species and health of the tree, then the TPZ 7 can be adjusted. 8 9 Chair Chang: So then are you saying that the – I think you were also online for the public 10 comments. Correct? 11 12 Peter Gollinger: Yes. 13 14 Chair Chang: Did you see the images from the public commenter which were pretty shocking 15 and scary looking? Are you saying that it's maybe not as severe as those images showed? 16 17 Peter Gollinger: So based on the 30-foot TPZ, the only encroachments into that 30-foot TPZ 18 would be the foot to 2-foot impacts for the shoring, which we could kind of specify what 19 method would be used as we get closer to that. For instance, we did something similar with the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. underground garage at Castilleja where we made sure that the impacts back into the soil were 1 as minimal as possible. Other than that, there w-, there shouldn't be any additional digging 2 except on a case-by-case basis. So the diagram where it showed that everything up to 10 feet 3 could potentially be cut is not necessarily accurate. 4 5 Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. And then what about the concern that the tree becomes 6 unbalanced then because of the pruning on the canopy and the big 17-inch diameter limb? Do 7 you… 8 9 Peter Gollinger: So we – I believe that the overall amount of canopy loss is definitely within 10 tolerance for this type of tree and especially since it's basically one of the scaffold limbs as 11 opposed to a bunch of heading cuts on multiple limbs. I would be much more concerned if it 12 was a more widespread reduction on one side, but since it's basically – we're going to be able 13 to achieve the clearance with just the removal of that once major limb primarily, I think that's – 14 it's definitely something that the tree can recover from. 15 16 Chair Chang: Okay. And then – and you were comfortable with the balconies in the – in that – 17 on that side? 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Peter Gollinger: If they can be constructed with no additional trimming needed than what's 1 required for the main building, then I don't see any reason that that would cause any additional 2 impacts to the tree. I think… 3 4 Chair Chang: Okay. 5 6 Peter Gollinger: …our original concern was if it was going to require additional pruning to do 7 that, but according to the applicant and Mr. Babby, I don't think that's needed. 8 9 Chair Chang: Okay. And then my final question is there's numerous nightmare stories that we 10 get letters from the public talking about – or it shows up in the news that this tree's gone down 11 and now it's gone and we can't do anything about it. And it's sort of the same thing. If this tree 12 dies, there's not much we can do about it. And so then for the – in terms of during construction 13 and inspection, how do we make sure that there's not a whoops moment because there 14 definitely has been that in other developments where, oh no, we've done too much here. 15 16 Peter Gollinger: So one of the key components of this is the requirement for this project to have 17 a project arborist and to have the project arborist be present for any activity that takes place 18 within the TPZ. So that is something that is written into the arborist report from Mr. Babby, and 19 it's something that we could make s-, it's already in the conditions – urban forestry conditions 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. for projects like this. So we would just need to make sure that we stay on top of it as far as the 1 inspections go. Ideally once that tree protection fence goes up, nobody goes inside there unless 2 the project arborist is present. That's the ideal situation. 3 4 Chair Chang: Okay. All right. Thank you. I think a colleague may have had a question for Mr. 5 Gollinger. So while he's here… 6 7 Commissioner Summa: Sorry to interrupt you also. I don't have a working light. We've had a 8 problem with this light for 3 years. So anyhow if Mr. Gollinger is still there, I wanted to check 9 about one thing. And I'm sure this is okay because 2 arborists have looked at it, but is it really 10 best for the tree to leave the asphalt where they're going to leave it where they don't have to 11 remove it? Or would it be better to carefully ex-, remove the asphalt? 12 13 Peter Gollinger: So personally – and I think it's included in Mr. Babby's report – I think – at the 14 end of the project, I think it would be best for the tree for the asphalt to be removed. During 15 the course of the project and all the construction, I think it's essential that it stays there. It's the 16 current situation that the tree is living under, and it would provide added protection even in 17 areas outside the TPZ if we could leave that pavement there covering as much of the root zone 18 as possible for additional protection during the project. But ideally once the project is over, it 19 would be nice to see that removed and permeability be reestablished. And I don't know if that's 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. part of the original – of the actual final plan set here, but I believe the removal of the asphalt is 1 referenced in Mr. Babby's report. 2 3 Commissioner Summa: Okay. Thank you so much for that. 4 5 Chair Chang: Commissioner Templeton? 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. I also have a question for Mr. Gollinger. When you were 8 talking about the tree – and we're looking at the circle here and it's over the property line and I 9 know there's a building there – are we taking into consideration what damage has already been 10 done to that tree with the other building that preexisted on the other property adjacent? 11 12 Peter Gollinger: So I'm uncertain of the age of that building, but to – from what I've seen it 13 looks like it's fairly old. So my guess is that any damage that was incurred during the building of 14 that building has been long since addressed and overcome by the tree based on its health and 15 stature. 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Well, it would be useful to know, and perhaps staff can tell us how 18 old that was. But I'm worried that the way we're framing this is sure, we can chop off one arm 19 and the tree will still live, but we're not looking at the arm we already chopped off. So I – I'm 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. sorry. It's a bit brutal of an analogy, but I'm just trying to make sure we understand because you 1 said if anything else had happened to that tree I wouldn't be comfortable with it, but we know 2 it already has. So I would love to hear your thoughts on that. And staff did you find out when 3 that structure was built on the adjacent property? 4 5 Jennifer Armer: We are looking into that. 6 7 Chair Chang: In the meantime, can I ask the question earlier that I asked about the difference in 8 tree health percentages [inaudible 206:35]. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Go ahead. I want to be in the queue after this. 11 12 Chair Chang: Okay. Yeah. Yes. 13 14 Peter Gollinger: Yeah. So when an arborist is assessing a tree for health and structure, it's – 15 there's a lot of variables and a lot of discretion, especially with a tree this large. I believe the 16 differences in the overall health and vigor of the tree between the 2 reports were I think 10 17 percent. I think one had it listed as 70 and one listed as 80. For the structure, I believe it was 50 18 and 55 or something like that. That's within the realm of tolerance between different arborists. 19 They bring different sets of expertise and different knowledge sets based on their personal 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. experience, and they may have seen things that the other arborist didn't. I didn't see anything 1 dramatically different between the 2. Slight differences such as that are fairly common. 2 3 Chair Chang: Okay. Thank. And Commissioner Templeton, do you have more questions for Mr. 4 Gollinger? 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: Well, I'm just waiting for staff. 7 8 Chair Chang: The answer from staff. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Do you want us to look it up or… 11 12 Emily Kallas: I can say that it is older than 20 years and that the County tax assessors suggest a 13 building has been there since 1945. 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: Okay. Well, yeah. That – if it's really 100 years old, that's totally 16 different than something that may have happened within the last 50 years. So okay. So we'll 17 just let that go. I'm done with Mr. Gollinger. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: All right. We've got Commissioner Hechtman and then back to you, Commissioner 1 Templeton. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. I've got a variety of sort of more discrete items I want to cover. 4 One of the things that we would need to do to move this forward with a recommendation of 5 approval is we need a Comp Plan amendment because right now our Comp Plan doesn't allow 6 the retention of any amount of office space in this situation. And so you've teed that up for us, 7 and I'm supportive of doing that here. But there was a comment in the staff report, and it just 8 wasn't clear to me. Staff thinks that the office use should be limited to medical office, and to 9 me, that makes a lot of sense here because that's its current use. But this Comp Plan 10 amendment would be citywide, I think, and so I wanted to understand from staff whether staff 11 wants citywide any retention of office space in this situation where now residentially 12 designated would have to be medical office, or are you really just site specific here? 13 14 Jennifer Armer: I'll start and then we might have some more clarification, but no. And in fact, I 15 don't believe that we are advocating for medical office restriction on this site either. 16 17 Emily Kallas: More specifically, I believe that was a point of discussion at the prior PTC 18 meeting… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 1 2 Emily Kallas: …but as the PT – PC ordinance is drafted in Attachment B and discussed in the staff 3 report, it is maintaining existing square – office square footage but not necessarily the medical 4 use specifically. 5 6 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. So on Packet Page 18, the end of the first full 7 paragraph, staff recommends this exception be limited to medical office, I want to clean that 8 up. That might have been a carryover from last year's staff report. Page 18. Yeah. Just above 9 the word height – just above the new heading height. So if that's no longer staff 10 recommendation – clean that up. 11 12 Jennifer Armer: Thank you. 13 14 Commissioner Hechtman: And then related to that, in the findings on Packet Page 25 and 26. 15 So, again, this is a Comp Plan amendment citywide, but your findings for policies L-1.1, a 16 number of them are really tied to this particular application, and so I would suggest that you 17 look at that and generalize these statements. For example, the bottom of Packet Page 25, it 18 talks about facilitate construction of 63 new rental apartments. Well, that's the old number for 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. here, but even if it's 66, that's just about here. And so what we're talking about is a citywide 1 permanent change, so I think you want to generalize those. 2 3 Next question, Middlefield setback. So I want to understand. We've got this 24-foot special 4 setback on Middlefield to the face of the building. In – underneath that 24 feet, is there going 5 to be a garage? 6 7 Emily Kallas: Yes. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. So I think that that has some effect on some of the discussion 10 we've had up here about what might happen in that – in any part of that 24 feet in the future. 11 Staff has asked us to weigh in on whether we should require an easement for any part of that 12 setback for future use. And I do think because this project is really using reduced parking from 13 our base code, there's a nexus and rough proportionality to requiring an easement over some 14 part of it for surface use, recognizing that we are not going to be able to dig down here because 15 there's going to be a garage in the way. And so I am supportive of that, but – and this is where 16 maybe the legal knowledge hinders me – I think we can't make people set aside land in case we 17 might want to build a road there in the future when they're proposing to develop now. I think 18 there are some issues with that, so I think we have to be cautious. But I am supportive of this 19 idea of being able to use some part of that surface area for transportation uses. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Let's see. Packet Page 20. I do believe this project as designed offers sufficient of public benefit. 2 In fact, it exceeds our requirements. The weighted value of the BMRs is 28 percent and that's 3 not even including some additional weighting for the extremely low category, which I don't 4 think we have a rating for that, but if we did, it would increase that number. So I think that's a 5 good thing. 6 7 Question on I think it's Packet Pages 21 and 42. There are 2 different impact fees listed. One is 8 2.8; the other is 4.1. As this goes to Council, whichever one it is, clean that up. 9 10 Let's see. Parking spaces. I did listen to Vice-Chair Akin's suggestion. I'm hesitant – I don't know 11 if we can put price controls on parking spaces, but what I am wondering if we can do is require 12 that those parking spaces can only be leased to building occupants because – and maybe that's 13 automatic, but if it's not, I would think, again, they're building it, it's a potential source of 14 revenue, and I think that's a way if we can't tell them you can only charge $10 a space per 15 month, that we can deprive them of basically putting it out on the market and the highest 16 bidder will take it. So that's kind of an alternative take. 17 18 Also when I look at the parking, this is an aggressive TDM because we're looking at a 30 percent 19 rather than 20 percent reduction, which, if my math is right, is talking about 5 parking spaces. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. That's the difference between 20 percent and 30 percent. And I think that this garage already 1 employs some stacked parking, doesn't it? 2 3 Emily Kallas: Yes. That's correct. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: All right. So what I'm wondering is whether if – among the potential 6 measures that would be included in the TDM, whether there's an opportunity to add within the 7 existing space – because obviously that's not going to grow – convert some other part of it to 8 add up to – as many as you could – up to 5 more stacked parking spaces. Now, they may 9 already be maxed and that may not be physically possible, but if it hasn't been explored, maybe 10 that could be. Again, I'm not suggesting that they do that now, but if there's space in there to 11 go from 1 to 2 stacked and they don't hit their targets, that could be one of the TDM measures. 12 13 Let's see. Just 2 more quick points. I think it's a little bit of a misnomer to the extent people are 14 wanting to make a connection between FEMA's requirements and the office space. I think it's 15 misguided. The – FEMA is not driving this applicant to include office space. Money is driving this 16 applicant to retain office. And if FEMA said you don't need all that space, I suspect what they 17 would be cutting was some of the shared space on the ground rather than the office space. So I 18 think, again, that their Builder's Remedy project is proposing to retain all this office space if – 19 whatever consolation is – it's 100 square feet less than their current office space. That's a 10 x 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 10 office. That's a couple cubicles. So we are actually reducing very slightly the number of 1 workers in Palo Alto through this effort while significantly increasing housing by 1 percent of 2 our RHNA total. 3 4 And then finally, I'm supportive of Vice-Chair Akin's suggestion that in our recommendation to 5 the Council we include a recommendation that it somehow get on a work plan to study 6 reconfiguration of Byron. 7 8 Chair Chang: Just before we go on to Commissioner Templeton, really quick. I think the 9 applicant said that they actually were pursuing an all-residential building and then because of 10 the FEMA thing, they added the office. So that was something the applicant mentioned during 11 their presentation. Go ahead, Commissioner Templeton. 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. Yeah. So I think I'm going to shift gears a little bit because 14 I'm focused on some of the feedback we've heard. We've heard people who don't like the 15 project because it has office space. We've heard people who don't the like project because it 16 has an underground garage that might encroach on the tree. We've heard people complain that 17 the underground garage is too small. We've heard complaints about parking on the street, 18 whether we're going to be able to access for drop-off locations. And I'm just trying to think of – 19 this is really challenging to wade through and help the – help guide the applicant into a project 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that would be acceptable and exciting to the community. So before I try and break that down, I 1 just want to ask Mr. Yang, can you describe – I know you've been asked several times, I just 2 want to go through it again – what is the nature of the threat hanging over our heads if this 3 project is not approved? 4 5 Albert Yang: Sure. The applicant has a pending application under the Builder's Remedy where, I 6 believe, it was 88 units that are proposed. That number could change by up to 20 percent and 7 the applicant would still be able to utilize the same application under the Builder's Remedy. 8 There's no… 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: And the Builder's Remedy is still applicable because of the timing of 11 our approval of the Housing Element? 12 13 Albert Yang: That's right. And there's no particular control over any of the building standards, 14 any of the parking ratios. The developer can generally do what they would like. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: And on the other hand, if we do approve a project and – what 17 happens to the Builder's Remedy project? Does that become null? 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Albert Yang: No, it does not. The applicant can always turn to the Builder's Remedy as an option 1 if it ends up deciding that this project as approved isn't what it would like to do. 2 3 Commissioner Templeton: Until what point? 4 5 Albert Yang: I would have to… 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: Once Council approves it, for example? Or we don't know? 8 9 Albert Yang: No. There is no – there may be a limit at some outside point, but the approval of 10 this project doesn't have any bearing on whether or not [inaudible 222:11]. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: That is a really helpful clarification. Thank you for taking the time to 13 spell it out in detail. Okay. So going back to what I was saying earlier. We have all these 14 different – somebody's going to be unhappy. There's no way to move forward. Something's 15 going to be built on this lot, and it is up to us to do our best to cooperate with the owners and 16 the builders to have something that is the best that we can all agree on. So as compelling as the 17 feedback and the commentary from the public has been, we also have to recognize that the 18 owner has some rights as well and then we need to recognize those. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. So I'm going to tell you what has been going through my mind. None of my colleagues have 1 mentioned these options, and so I'm guessing probably they are not going to be included. But if 2 I had my druthers, I would not do the garage and then I would expect all these other things that 3 we talked about – and then for parking, I would say that parking has to be handled through 4 some other mechanism that's not just the residential street parking such as let's charge those 5 high rates for City parking. Let's not worry about the $50 street parking permits. Let's go ahead 6 and say if you're going to go forward with this project it needs to be $1500 a year in the City 7 parking garage 2 blocks away – something like that. I don't know. It's a little bit wild and – 8 nevertheless, what does that accomplish? Well, it reduces the amount of cars in and out of the 9 property. It reduces the threat on the trees. It reduces our need to perfect the squabbling 10 about how many spots are underground because we can move those spots where we need to 11 have them within some walking distance. 12 13 I think it – we can ask ourselves for a little bit more. We've kind of gotten in a pattern where 14 we're just tweaking and refining, but we should give ourselves a little bit of permission to ask 15 for what we think the community needs and try and negotiate that with the applicants because 16 this project has a lot of potential. We've heard a lot of interest in it. We're excited about the 17 opportunity to have his housing. And one more thing. If we don't have the parking, we don't 18 have to have the office. So it accomplishes a lot of goals. That said, it would frustrate people 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. who are worried about parking, including probably the applicants. So I'm going to leave it at 1 that for now and chime back in more later, but thank you for the time. 2 3 Chair Chang: All right. Commissioner Peterson. 4 5 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. So I'm going to circle back to – first I just want to 6 bring up the tree. And just for the applicant, you have visualizations but I'm assuming you don't 7 have a visualization specific to the tree? 8 9 Female: Yeah. That… 10 11 Commissioner Peterson: I know you have one with the roots and all the rest, but do you have a 12 "BIM" of the tree by itself? No. I just think you've heard so much conversation about this tree, it 13 might almost like – in future applications just make a specific model of the tree so everyone can 14 see the roots – you know what I mean – because it's been a lot of conversation about a tree. A 15 TIM – a Tree Information Model – I think is what we're talking about. 16 17 So with that, I'm going to go and look at on page 4, we have Findings #3. And so I just want to 18 comment on this quickly, and then I'm going to comment on Findings #6. And this is in the 19 Architectural section. So on page 4, it says the design of a high quality with the appropriate 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. construction technique, and I think high quality is something that Palo Alto does require. And 1 we all know you can take a good design and build it poorly. You can take a poor design… 2 3 Chair Chang: What page is this? 4 5 Commissioner Peterson: What's that? 6 7 Chair Chang: What page is… 8 9 Commissioner Peterson: Sorry. I think it's page 4 in the Packet. Page 31. Sorry. It says Page 4 on 10 the bottom here. Packet Page 30 – sorry. Where are we at here? 11 12 Commissioner Hechtman: [Inaudible 226:43] 37. 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: 37? There we go. Thank you. 15 16 Jennifer Armer: And so just for clarification, those are the Architectural Review findings, not 17 the… 18 19 Emily Kallas: It looks like Finding #3 which is at the top and that's [inaudible 227:02]. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Jennifer Armer: Sorry. That is – #3 at the top of that is under the Planned Community Findings. 2 3 Commissioner Peterson: Okay. So it's open? Okay. Thank you. I was going to ask that question 4 first, but I thought I would just wing it a little bit. Okay. So the – you can take a poor design and 5 build it well and take a good design and po-, build it poorly. And I think that's one of the things 6 which is where I wanted to come back with the workforce – an educated workforce, an 7 apprentice workforce. Is that – I'd like to see the building constructed with that high-quality 8 workforce… 9 10 Chair Chang: Sorry. Can I just ask for clarification? You're talking about Finding 1 under the 11 Architectural Review Findings? 12 13 Commissioner Peterson: Number 3. 14 15 Chair Chang: Number 3 under – okay. Got it. 16 17 Commissioner Peterson: High quality and appropriate construction techniques. 18 19 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. On the next page [inaudible 227:49]. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: So that's Finding #3 for the Architectural Review Findings? 2 3 Commissioner Peterson: Correct. 4 5 Chair Chang: So I think – I'll let Ms. Armer. 6 7 Jennifer Armer: I'll go ahead and jump in. So… 8 9 Commissioner Peterson: So it does change. 10 11 Jennifer Armer: On Packet Page 38, Finding 3, that is under the Architectural Review Findings. 12 That is not part of the consideration by Planning and Transportation Commission. 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: Fantastic. Thank you. A high-quality construction is a good idea. And 15 then just to throw it in there, it talked about sustainability as well. And so – but I'll leave that 16 one go. Thank you. 17 18 Chair Chang: Okay. Commissioner Summa. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Albert Yang: I may jump in for one moment. 1 2 Chair Chang: Yes. Please. 3 4 Albert Yang: Sorry. I just want to amend one of my prior statements in response to 5 Commissioner Templeton as far as the kind of is there an expiration on the Builder's Remedy 6 application. Right now, the City and the developer have agreed to a tolling agreement to place 7 that project on hold while this one's being processed. And so in the event that the PC is 8 approved by the Council, the City likely would not agree to extend that agreement and it would 9 expire and then the Builder's Remedy application would as well. 10 11 Female: Good. 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. 14 15 Commissioner Summa: Okay. Thank you for that clarification. That's interesting. I want to 16 mention a couple of other specific things. And one small observation is that I believe the 10,000 17 square feet that is the workout place – I think t-, I can't think of the name – I think typically 18 when we're calculating square footage – and this is consistent with the other accessory uses to 19 the main use – they're just assigned to the other use. So other – I just don't see that as being 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. necessary. If it's shared by both uses, half should go to the residential and half should go to – I 1 think that's consistent with the way we do it. And the office for the residential and the lobby for 2 the commercial is not called other. So that's just a small thing and I haven't seen it done that 3 way before. 4 5 And then bigger issues is the – not the staff report but our slide presentation brought up 6 18.38.150 which are the special requirements, mentioned that it was not consistent with the 7 special requirements, but there was no discussion of it. So it was one of several important 8 issues – the FEMA one and this one – that were kind of just – there was a statement but not a 9 discussion to explain how, what, why. I think I know but – and it seems inconsistent that – with 10 what we've been told lately about that section of the code. And I don't know if we want to 11 bring it all up right now because I'm going to make a recommendation – a motion in a minute. 12 13 And the other thing is the code amendment. It's a citywide very big change. Not the code 14 amendment, the municipal plan text amendment. It's a very big change and there is a glaring 15 need, in my opinion, to have fulsome discussion of the impacts, the pros and cons, what it 16 means. PC is something we can have in every single zone in the City, and to just say – I would be 17 more comfortable making a variance if that's what this body wants to recommend. I'm not 18 saying that I do, but I'm more comfortable with a one-off variance – I think that's what 19 variances are for – than making a broad citywide change to the Comprehensive Plan without 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. any idea of what the impacts are. There are some places where you would not want that to 1 happen, where a grandfathered office use regardless of whether it's medical or general office 2 really doesn't fit in anymore and it isn't wanted. I just think that's a huge sweeping change. And 3 I am convinced if you think it's the right time to make a motion that I think gives us time and 4 the applicant time to respond to a lot of really big things that came up. Otherwise, we're going 5 to have to draft a motion that some of us may support or some may not, but it will have 6 massive and really complicated conditions of approval in it. And I think it would be better to 7 continue this and let the applicant respond to those all so it can come back in a 8 recommendation to Council. It can be one where we think we know what we're recommending 9 and so that there can be – I'm uncomfortable with the co-, the text amendment to the plan – 10 the municipal plan – sorry. Can't spit it out anymore. I'm uncomfortable with that being 11 handled in the same meeting that it depends on t-, same decision that it depends on to make it 12 work to make the findings. I think that's the definition of a paradox, and I think it should've 13 come to us separately with the full staff report. So I think because of these big issues and the 14 conditions of approval that we want attached, I think this should be continued. And I think this 15 board has been very responsive to moving this project along, and I know we sent it to ARB in a 16 timely fashion. That's not a stalling technique. It's just going to be too complicated to get it 17 right, and I am not comfortable doing a na-, citywide policy text amendment in the same 18 motion of a quasi-judicial hearing that depends on it – that text amendment – to make the 19 findings. It's just very backwards to me timing wise. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 So I would like to make a motion to continue this, and I can enumerate all the really good ideas 2 that were conditions of approval and also suggest that we have a full consideration of the text 3 amendment and pass that first on its own so that we know what we're doing here. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 234:52]. 6 7 Commissioner Summa: Hm? 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 234:54]. 10 11 Commissioner Summa: As soon as possible. I wouldn't want to be prescriptive about conti-, the 12 – Commissioner Templeton asked me without her microphone on continue to when. And I think 13 it's best for staff to decide that because it depends on their workload, but that's what I'd like to 14 do. So... 15 16 Vice-Chair Akin: [Inaudible 235:20] finish the comments. 17 18 Commissioner Summa: Are there more comments? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: There are more comments. 1 2 Commissioner Summa: Okay. I wasn't sure where we were. 3 4 Chair Chang: Okay. Yeah. Sorry about that. My bad. 5 6 Commissioner Summa: So I'd be happy to do that, and that is to move this along in a fashion 7 where we all understand what we're getting including the applicant, of course, and that we can 8 make a recommendation that has specificity and isn't so complicated to the Council and so that 9 we can consider the code – the text amendment on its own merit understanding its impacts 10 before we include in their application. 11 12 Chair Chang: Okay. So j-, we have lights still from Commissioner – from Vice-Chair Akin, from 13 Commissioner Ji, and then Commissioner Templeton, and I also had some questions. So – it's a 14 ghost light? Okay. Great. And we had a very out of the box idea from Commissioner Templeton. 15 So let's hear what Commissioner Akin and Commissioner Ji have to say. If we're continuing it, I 16 will probably si-, I had some other questions too. But let's… 17 18 Jennifer Armer: Through the Chair. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Yes. 1 2 Jennifer Armer: I do believe we've got a motion that was made. 3 4 Chair Chang: Right. 5 6 Jennifer Armer: I don't know if it's being withdrawn or whether there is a second. 7 8 Commissioner Summa: No, I'm not withdrawing it. I didn't actually make a motion. 9 10 Jennifer Armer: Okay. 11 12 Commissioner Summa: I said I was ready to make a motion. 13 14 Jennifer Armer: Okay. Great. 15 16 Commissioner Summa: And the reason is… 17 18 Jennifer Armer: Thank you for that clarification. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: …I didn't know how many lights were on and how many people still 1 wanted to speak and I'd rather wait. 2 3 Chair Chang: Yeah. Okay. So let's hear from Vice-Chair Akin. 4 5 Vice-Chair Akin: Thank you, and I'll be quick. In response to a couple of comments made by 6 Commissioner Hechtman, the issue is not that the property managers will lease spaces in the 7 building out to non-residents. The issue is that residents will choose to go elsewhere because 8 the cost differential is so high. So as for negotiating prices, we do have a precedent. There was 9 a negotiation on the unbundled parking prices for 3265 El Camino. 10 11 For Commissioner Templeton, it's good to think out of the box. We have to leave it to the 12 applicant to decide whether the project would be marketable without parking at all. But as 13 much as I would love to take advantage of the Webster/Cowper Garage, there are a number of 14 difficult problems of which Mr. Buchanan alluded to, the most serious of which being that a lot 15 of the spaces in that garage are simply not available. They're reserved for the Parking 16 Assessment District members, and outside the Parking Assessment District, we have no idea 17 how many of those there are and under what conditions they could be reused. So good idea. 18 We don't have enough information to act on it. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: We can get that information. 1 2 Vice-Chair Akin: We've been trying for years. 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: Well, it could become a priority. Who knows? If it's 66 housing units 5 on the line, maybe. 6 7 Vice-Chair Akin: Yeah. It's up to the Parking Assessment District, not to us. All right. That's it for 8 me. 9 10 Jennifer Armer: And I'm going to jump in one more time. I'm sorry. 11 12 Chair Chang: Yes. 13 14 Jennifer Armer: I did want to do a time check. It is 10 p.m. and so I wanted to check in as to 15 whether the Commission does intend to continue with the other items on the agenda. Staff is 16 available to continue if you would like, and we can, but I wanted to check in on that. Thank you. 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Okay. So can we just quickly hear from Commissioner Ji and then we'll address 1 that question about what we're going to do on the next item and then we'll go back to any 2 potential motions. Okay. 3 4 Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, staff. I know it's getting late. Thank you, those of 5 the public that are still here with us. I just wanted to say, kind of zooming out here, this is an 6 awesome spot for a project and I'm very excited about many different components of it. I want 7 to echo some of the sentiments from some of the other fellow Commissioners here. I think – 8 for me, I think a lot about transportation impacts, and as previously mentioned – won't go over 9 into detail – I think that University and Middlefield are significant corridors and I think that 10 some kind of easement or some kind of something similar should be considered at this – on the 11 Middlefield setback side. 12 13 I also want to comment on Commissioner Hechtman's math about 5 parking spaces being the 14 difference. I think that – just looking at the numbers here, I think that there might have been 15 some – based on what I saw in the staff report that the total expected number is 111. 16 17 Commissioner Hechtman: [These are 240:30] the numbers. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Ji: Yes. But I also want to talk about the reality, which is the fact that the ADA 1 spaces count for 2, I think somewhat obscures some of the numbers. So I just want to say that 2 the total number of parking spaces, if we count ADA as 1, is 68 in the new propose. 3 4 I also am very curious about Commissioner Templeton's suggestion about the no garage. 5 Although Vice-Chair Akin mentioned that we don't have information about the parking in the 6 Cowper/Webster Garage, that may be another reason to continue this while we figure out 7 more information about the parking situation. In addition, I want to reiterate my interest in 8 having a parking and/or traffic study done at this section as many of the public – those who 9 lived on Byron have said that there's significant congestion, and I think that these could be 10 potentially coupled together. 11 12 Emily Kallas: If I may… 13 14 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. 15 16 Emily Kallas: A traffic analysis was completed as a part of the Environmental Impact Report. We 17 may still have a consultant on line for that – yes, Eric Tse from Hexagon… 18 19 Commissioner Ji: Yes. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Emily Kallas: …if you have any specific questions but… 2 3 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. I had a question. I didn't get a chance to take a look at that, but did that 4 include parking study or is that only traffic congestion? 5 6 Eric Tse: We did look at the parking as well, but I think the parking information was already 7 presented by staff. And the parking – basically there's a reduction in parking based on the City 8 code requirements. I'm going to go back to my study here. 9 10 Emily Kallas: To elaborate a little bit, the parking and transportation analysis completed is 11 looking at the CEQA requirements which includes VMT – vehicle miles traveled – as well as 12 locally LOS when it meets certain thresholds, which I believe this project did. And so – however, 13 parking is not considered a CEQA-related impact, so it is mostly analyzed by the City 14 requirements. There is also a draft TDM plan which was completed and works to partner with 15 that 30 percent parking reduction in spaces to provide alternative modes of transportation and 16 support for multimodal transportation. 17 18 Commissioner Ji: Thank you. I guess then I'll focus my comments specifically around the 19 portions not addressed in the Environmental Impact Review. I am pretty cautious about TDMs. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. There's one currently being discussed near my own house, and I know that for that one, for 1 example, we won't get samples for 3 years for measurement. And so that's a little bit 2 concerning. So I would love to see some kind of more parking information and see how that 3 might relate to Commissioner Templeton's information. 4 5 And I also want to reiterate kind of my initial comments about the office. I do think that 6 potentially not having an office could alle-, also knock out several different elements that have 7 been impa-, different public commenters and other folks who are against the project as is are 8 saying. For example, not having the office could potentially reduce the daylight plane impacts. I 9 believe on one of the packet pages, it currently says that there is "significant" intrusions into 10 the daylight plane, so removing the office would help with that. And also I saw in the plans that 11 there was a separate elevator for the office, and so there might be other amenities that are 12 currently designated for the office that could be reapportioned to housing or other issues. 13 14 And I also want to echo Commissioner Summa's comments about the text amendment. I am a 15 little bit worried about it being brought, and I will just leave that at that for now. 16 17 Chair Chang: Okay. Let's take – yes. I was actually going to ask the applicant a question, but we 18 need to quickly let our staff know whether we're going to continue on to the next item. So let's 19 address that question about whether we are able to stay to address the El Camino Real Focus 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Area, and I think the easiest way to do it is just if each Commissioner can kind of – if we can go 1 down the line. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: So I think we should move Item 3 to a future agenda item and keep 4 Item 4 which is a short procedural item that we don't need the public to be as awake for. 5 6 Commissioner Ji: I'd agree with Commissioner Hechtman. 7 8 Chair Chang: Ditto. 9 10 Vice-Chair Akin: Second here. 11 12 Commissioner Summa: I have to recuse on Item 3, so I will abstain from commenting on Item 3, 13 but should that motion carry, I will stay and do Item 4. 14 15 Commissioner Peterson: I agree. 16 17 Commissioner Templeton: Unfortunately, I have to leave as soon as possible due to a family 18 situation that's occurring right now. So I'm happy to vote, but I don't think I can stay for either 19 item actually. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Okay. Well, we would still have quorum though. Okay. So do we want to make a 2 motion about continuing – can we – would somebody like to make that motion? 3 4 Jennifer Armer: Yeah. And I would recommend it be continued to a date certain of March 26th. 5 6 Chair Chang: Okay. 7 8 Jennifer Armer: The next meeting in 2 weeks. 9 10 Chair Chang: Okay. 11 12 Commissioner Hechtman: So moved. 13 14 Chair Chang: Second. Any discussion? Okay. Ms. Dao, would you like to take a vote on that? 15 16 Veronica Dao: Yes. Or would you want to do voice vote? 17 18 Chair Chang: Okay. We're going to do a voice vote. All in favor? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Aye. 1 2 Commissioner Ji: Aye. 3 4 Chair Chang: Aye. 5 6 Vice-Chair Akin: Aye. 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: Aye. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Aye. 11 12 Chair Chang: Any opposed? And any abstentions? 13 14 Commissioner Summa: Abstain. 15 16 Chair Chang: One abstention. Okay. So the motion passes 6-0-1. All right. With that, I just – 17 we're going keep going on this item. So I had a question for the applicant about this really 18 fascinating out of the box proposal about no parking at all because I heard the applicant say 19 about wanting to have as much parking as possible in order to make it marketable. So – and 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. then I know the applicant was hoping to speak about something as well. So if you want to come 1 up and answer that question as well as I will let you – you raised your hand and I will let – I 2 want to hear what you have to say because we're… 3 4 Lund Smith: Thank you for all your comments. So yeah, I'm trying to juggle all this stuff you guys 5 have said as well. I just wanted to mention a couple things while I'm thinking about it. So… 6 7 Chair Chang: Just let the record show that Commissioner Templeton has to leave. 8 9 Lund Smith: So Commissioner Ji, just in response to some of your comments in regards to the 10 office and also some comments made by Commissioner Hechtman. So the – it was a very 11 iterative process on getting to 25 percent non-residential component. So I appreciate your back 12 of the envelope numbers. I'm also a very mathematical, analytic person, and so I can tell you it 13 was a very delicate process. And then also the staff did explain it well also. So there's an office 14 piece that fits a certain definition per the City, then there's a non-residential definition that 15 FEMA calls non-residential. So although we haven't categorized, let's say, the gym space or that 16 that space is half office and half residential, we actually categorized it all as non-residential to 17 get to the 25 percent threshold. So it's actually a lot closer math than what's on the back of 18 your envelope, so it is a delicate balance to try to get to that 25 percent. And just so you know 19 as well, it was one of our goals going into this thing because we understand that this is a 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. housing project – we want this to be a housing project – so we deliberately have not increased 1 the office from our original proposal. So we're not using this as a gotcha to say we're going to 2 expand the office by double. No, we've kept the office the same. So we've expanded the non-3 residential components of the ground floor to satisfy the 25 percent FEMA; we have not grown 4 the office. But also Commissioner Hechtman is correct. The office does drive the ability to offer 5 affordable housing on this site. If it – if we eliminate the component of the office, project's 6 dead. That's just the truth. That's how the math works behind this project. I lost my train of 7 thought in expanding on this. I'm going to let Boyd [inaudible 249:48]. 8 9 Boyd Smith: Yeah. We 100 percent have to park this project. There's no way this thing gets built 10 without parking on site underground as has been designed. No possibility. 11 12 Chair Chang: Can we quote you on that for all future projects that want to under-park? 13 14 Boyd Smith: I also want to say we don't want a continuance here. It's been too much, too long. 15 Please just vote. 16 17 Chair Chang: Well, I have a couple other questions that are – before we do motions. So there's 18 a letter from Valley Water that specifically says on Packet Page 155 that it is unclear if 19 dewatering will occur after construction. Somebody had asked something about it, and I'm not 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. sure I caught the answer because I was trying to track things as well as listen at the same time 1 and may have failed. But will there be dewatering occurring after construction? 2 3 Emily Kallas: That will not be known until the construction phase of this project. 4 5 Chair Chang: Okay. But then that will – is that a condition of approval or is that a – how do we 6 ensure that that is adhered to? 7 8 Emily Kallas: Yes. There is a standard condition related to dewatering from the Depar – Public 9 Works Engineering Department. Sorry. I drifted away from the microphone. But essentially all 10 of the details regarding the dewatering will meet City code and get determined as a part of the 11 building permit application process. 12 13 Chair Chang: Okay. Then my other question was about parking. This is for medical – so I know 14 that we're doing unbundled parking for the residential. It is also un-, it's not unbundled for the 15 office. Right? There's n-, people don't have to pay for it. It goes with the office and then the 16 office tenant decides how that office's – how those parking spaces are handled. Correct? 17 18 Emily Kallas: Yes. The unbundling relates particularly to residential units being included in the 19 rent and assigned to individual units as a part of the lease agreement. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Understood. 2 3 Emily Kallas: And so yeah, offices work different. 4 5 Chair Chang: Okay. Great. So those were my 2 questions I think. Wait. I don't know if Mr. Rius is 6 still there. He popped on for a second while I was talking about setbacks and – is he still there? I 7 can't see. 8 9 Female: He looks like he is. 10 11 Chair Chang: You're still there. Hello, Mr. Rius. So you were going to pop on and say something. 12 I'm going to ask you. Is 3 feet sufficient? Let's say that a bike lane needed to be constructed. 13 How far down do we need to dig? 14 15 Rafael Rius: Yeah. I was thinking about this and I'm looking up at the street view. To be honest, 16 it's going to be hard to build almost anything with the parking garage there just the way the 17 current things are set up. If anything, some of the existing equipment that’s adjacent to the 18 curb would probably need to go into the setback and – such as like, for example, the traffic 19 signal pole at University and Middlefield. It's not in an ideal spot. That's an outdated design. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ideally it would go kind of behind the sidewalk. In most cases, behind the sidewalk is still City 1 right of way. It's not here. That would be within the special setback, and to move that pole 2 there, you need to go down at least 12 to 16 feet for poles. Presumably if you build a bike path 3 to current standards, it would need sort of lighting, and so lighting, utilities, etc., would typically 4 go in the area to the back of the sidewalk or the back of a new path. And if we added an 11-foot 5 lane, that would pretty much take the planter strip and the sidewalk. So the signal cabinets, any 6 kind of roadway signage, signal poles, street lights, etc., would typically go in that setback and 7 the parking garage would prohibit any kind of real work. We have examples downtown where 8 there's parking or basements that are under the sidewalks that have been really prohibitive of 9 transportation-related improvements. 10 11 Chair Chang: And that's why we usually say that the building – that the basement can't extend 12 beyond the footprint of the building. Correct? 13 14 Rafael Rius: Well, it can be I think – I apologize. One of the other Commissioners mentioned in 15 Reno, and I'm familiar with Reno and San Francisco. It is possible to put a basement under a 16 roadway, but that does take extra structural – amount of structural engineering, but I know it's 17 beyond a typical basement and requires extra structural stuff and other depth. And even then, 18 it limits some – what you can put on it and probably wouldn't be conducive to any kind of 19 utilities like signal poles or street lighting poles or anything. So… 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. That actually is very helpful and rather discouraging, so thank 2 you. Is this is a – Commissioner Peterson. 3 4 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. So to follow up on the question with the roadway, is – so 5 can I ask the applicant? Are you able to work with that requirement that possibly you would 6 have a roadway on top of your parking garage? 7 8 Boyd Smith: We would be happy to look into that further. Our th-, our analysis with the current 9 garage design is it can accommodate bike paths, things like that, but I don't think it's – and a 10 right-hand turn potentially. But it's not anticipated to be able to support a full lane of traffic in 11 its current design. We're happy to explore that further. 12 13 Commissioner Peterson: And then the other question is the condition – the question about the 14 lighting, signage, signaling being attached to the garage – parking garage. 15 16 Boyd Smith: I have never heard that before, so I'm not really prepared to talk about that part of 17 it. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: To staff, is there any details we can get on the specifications that – 1 what kind of structural foundation do you need for that type of equipment? 2 3 Rafael Rius: Well, I'm just looking. Right now we have about 10½ feet and we have a 5-foot 4 sidewalk and then the 5 feet between the sidewalk and the roadway – the current road – face 5 of curb. We have traffic signal poles, street lights, traffic signal cabinets. I know the signal poles 6 just – I'm looking at it right now on Google Street View. In an ideal world, it would go kind of 7 where the grass is right now, which would be right on top of the garage, and that pole 8 foundation – so look at the one in the corner. If you're going to build anything in that first 10 9 feet, those 2 cabinets would be on the grass. The signal pole closest to the corner would be on 10 the grass, and that pole that I'm pointed at right now is about a 12 to 16 foot deep foundation. 11 The 2 cabinets have utility conduits going into it which is about 3 or 4 feet deep underneath it. 12 There's a – I don't know what's in that utility vault right there also. But – so presumably I 13 wouldn't anticipate the road being over the garage. I would anticipate this stuff being over the 14 garage and then the extra lane going where the sidewalk is right now and where the dirt is, 15 but… 16 17 Commissioner Peterson: I'm assuming that it's not impossible to attach the signal pole to – 18 directly like to a flat-mount, I guess is what it would be called. Or does it have to be embedded 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. into the concrete with some kind of a – well, I'll just leave it at that. That can be – there's 1 mounts that'll bolt that to a flat-mount. Correct? 2 3 Rafael Rius: Not typically for traffic signal poles. They have – this pole itself has I believe – it's 4 way outdated standards, but the arm that sticks over is going to be at least 20, 30 feet and have 5 to withstand I think 100 mile an hour wind load. It's – they're not – generally not surface 6 mounted. Even getting into the bigger pole, the pole foundation – like I was saying – 12 to 16 7 feet deep and about 5 feet in diameter. 8 9 Commissioner Peterson: So quickly to the applicant. I know now we're moving outside of the 10 architectural world and into the civil engineering world. Do you have an answer to the traffic 11 signal? It seems to me like this is a rebar and concrete problem at that point to mount this. 12 13 Lund Smith: Yes. I'm not a contractor either but… 14 15 Commissioner Peterson: Right. 16 17 Lund Smith: …what I can say is we have done some initial studies. So if we were to pull our 18 garage back, we would lose about 8 stalls – is what our estimate is – in order to accommodate 19 full in-ground, whatever you want in that setback. So it's possible we would lose 8 stalls again. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Yeah. Thank you. 2 3 Lund Smith: Nobody likes losing stalls, but we [inaudible 260:08]. 4 5 Chair Chang: Well, we just had a proposal on the table to remove all parking, so at this point 8 6 stalls sounds like nothing. And I guess my question to you would have been is 8 stalls som-, 7 that's severely under-parked, but it's not no parking and is it something that – I know that you 8 guys wanted as much parking as possible, and I think that while we were providing parking, we 9 wanted as much parking as possible. But now we're learning new information that we did not 10 have that really affects kind of usability at a core corner of downtown Palo Alto. 11 12 Lund Smith: Yeah. I think we're definitely willing to consider it. We – again, this is kind of 13 coming all at us at the same too, but we are… 14 15 Chair Chang: Right. 16 17 Lund Smith: ...willing to consider. 18 19 Chair Chang: Right. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Lund Smith: Yeah. 2 3 Chair Chang: Okay. I think we had a question from Commissioner Ji. 4 5 Commissioner Ji: Ms. Kallas, do you mind pulling up that street view image again? 6 7 Chair Chang: Maybe Mr. Rius could do it more easily. 8 9 Commissioner Ji: Sorry. [Inaudible 261:02]. 10 11 Emily Kallas: No. I was sharing it earlier, so it was right there. 12 13 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. Can I have a clarification about where exactly 0 feet setback is? Does 14 the garage – would it go underneath the pole? It would go where the grass is? I just want some 15 visual aid here. 16 17 Rafael Rius: My interpretation of the plans – and correct me if I'm wrong – but that g-, the 18 property line is right at the edge of the grass line, which is the back of sidewalk. So the grass in 19 this image would be on top of the garage. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Emily Kallas: That's correct. 2 3 Rafael Rius: And I wouldn't anticipate a travel lane that close to the building, but I would 4 anticipate either a bike path – separated bike path or a travel lane to be kind of where the dirt 5 and the sidewalk are right now. But that means the boxes where the finger – the hand is on it 6 right now and the signal pole – there's street lighting off to the left off the screen. All of that 7 stuff would presumably need to be moved out of this way and kind of over the garage area in 8 what would be the setback. But the street light poles are not as deep, but they are definitely 9 more than 3 feet deep. So… 10 11 Emily Kallas: Also, just for a sense of scale with what you are currently looking at, the existing 12 building is between 10 and 12 feet from the property line. It's not meeting the 24-foot setback 13 at this time. 14 15 Commissioner Ji: Thank you. So just to clarify. So for example, something that could be useful 16 would potentially be a bus lane here. So we're saying that with the garage underneath it would 17 just be impossible to support the weight of something like that. Is that what I'm hearing, Mr. 18 Rius? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Rafael Rius: Well, so if you put a bus lane where – right where the sidewalk is and then you had 1 a curb, the traffic signal pole on the corner would need to go where the grass is. That – and I'm 2 saying that traffic signal pole, the foundation for that goes down minimum 12 feet. I think the 3 new standards might even be 16 feet, but we have a garage that's 3 feet down. The conduits to 4 these boxes are about 4 feet deep. 5 6 Emily Kallas: I think what we're trying to say is that the existing street infrastructure in the right 7 of way would need to be moved into the setback to accommodate a wider lane of traffic. And it 8 would not be the traffic lane itself that goes in the setback. It would be all of this infrastructure 9 that's currently in the sidewalk. 10 11 Chair Chang: But I think this explains why there's a special setback on Middlefield for precisely 12 this reason. Okay. Do my colleagues have a suggestion for what we should do here? Because I 13 don't think that I would be in favor of approving the project as is because I feel so strongly 14 about the ability to make circulation changes that kind of affect all of Palo Alto right at that 15 intersection. 16 17 Commissioner Summa: I would be happy to make a motion to continue and include what I was 18 going to – what I think the conditions of approval as things that we need more information 19 about so that we can 1) tee up a really good recommendation for the Council and 2) so we can 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. have clarity on this before making a decision and the text amendment especially, I think. So – 1 and the intention, I'll state again, is not to delay this project – which the Planning Commission 2 has not delayed – and to have better product for everyone to move recommendation for for 3 the Council. And as to whether it can be continued to – the timing of that, whether it's certain 4 or uncertain, I will leave up to staff. And I'm ready to do that if you want me to. 5 6 Chair Chang: It turns out there's one more question here… 7 8 Commissioner Summa: Okay. 9 10 Chair Chang: …from Commissioner Ji. Let's ask that question and then… 11 12 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. So I guess I have a really dumb question which is is it possible to make 13 the garage 3 floors down and just pull it in? 14 15 Chair Chang: Very expensive [inaudible 265:27]. 16 17 Boyd Smith: It just gets prohibitively expensive. It's already really deep, so it just – it gets 18 uneconomical to go deeper like that. I mean I think – just thinking out loud and responding to 19 some of these comments I'm hearing – we are willing to think through and work with staff on if 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. there's a – if we need to lose a stall here or a stall there to accommodate the street light. It 1 feels like that's maybe a good path forward. It's – anyway, that's a thought. We're willing to 2 work and figure out what specific areas maybe need the depth and leave those untouched. 3 Anyway, for what it's worth. 4 5 Commissioner Ji: Thank you. 6 7 Chair Chang: Commissioner or Vice – well, we've got – let me just go to Vice-Chair Akin and 8 then Commissioner Peterson. 9 10 Vice-Chair Akin: All right. So I'm just ruminating that, yes, that approach does seem like the 11 fastest way forward and I think you could get considerable support from this Commission at 12 least if we can work out some of those issues. Yeah, I'm concerned about the Comp Plan issue 13 as well, so we would need to revisit that. And the only question that remains for me then is 14 whether this can be done to a date certain, and we need to ask our staff what they think. 15 16 Jennifer Armer: I think it depends on the extent of the additional analysis that you are asking 17 for. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice-Chair Akin: Well, not just we're asking for but what the applicant needs. If you're going to 1 work out partial redesign of the garage, that will take some hard to predict amount of time. 2 3 Jennifer Armer: Correct. And so depending on what revised materials or analysis you are 4 requesting from the applicant and how much time that would require could affect the date. It 5 might be that it is prudent to just renotice to a new date so it would be at a date uncertain. This 6 is a project that does require a 20-day noticing, but we would, of course, as soon as have some 7 estimate of when it can get on we would put it on as soon as possible date. 8 9 Vice-Chair Akin: So what we need to is to make sure that we have requested absolutely all the 10 information we need to proceed later. Is that the way you interpret it as well? 11 12 Chair Chang: Okay. Commissioner Peterson. 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. To the staff, just a quick question. When you said 15 that the foundation of the traffic signal is 9, 16 feet, you're talking about the concrete and rebar 16 foundation. Correct? 17 18 Rafael Rius: Yes, exactly. It's… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Peterson: Okay. So I just wanted to point out what we're talking about is 1 essentially just a reinforced concrete corner to the basement. They're putting a concrete 2 foundation in already that's going to be 24-foot deep or something. You're just talking about 3 the – a circular corner essentially that's reinforced with rebar. So it's – from that standpoint, it's 4 a fairly minor modification to their design, and I don't think this is a major issue to be figuring 5 out how to attach a traffic signal pole to a foundation. I think they could figure it out and I don't 6 think it's – if we're postponing for that issue alone, I don't think that's a major issue that they're 7 going to have trouble figuring out. 8 9 Jennifer Armer: If I may, I would express concerns about that for a number of different things 10 without being an expert in any of this. We don't know where the traffic pole might be. There's 11 no current design for redesigning this street, so we don't know where that would need to be 12 located. And just the idea of attaching something that the City is responsible to something 13 constructed on private property gives me pause in terms of who's responsible for maintenance 14 or what if there were damage, somebody runs into the light pole and it damages the 15 foundation of the building. All of those kinds of things I would guess would be of concern that it 16 would be more than a minor change. 17 18 Chair Chang: Yeah. I think we would need – this is – Mr. Rius is fantastic, but Mr. Rius is flying by 19 the seat of his pants right now and there may be issues that he hasn't thought about at 10 p.m. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. on a Wednesday. And so I think that in order to really look at this – and that's right. There are 1 no plans here, but we if wanted to reserve – we've seen other plans that say that there is 2 probably going to be something here. So we need to understand really. We thought that a 24-3 foot setback at the surface would do it, but it sounds like that's not the case, and I think we just 4 need to understand that a little bit more. Okay. So are we ready for a motion of some sort? 5 Okay. I usually don't let the applicant speak this much, but I will. 6 7 Boyd Smith: [This is 271:15] an unusual process. 8 9 Chair Chang: This is. 10 11 Boyd Smith: So we – it sounds like you guys have some ideas. What we would really prefer is to 12 just incorporate those ideas into some kind of conditions of approval and let us go to Council. 13 We can't keep doing this, guys. It's been like 5 years. We're getting new direction all the time 14 coming in from left field. You just got to let us – put this into conditions of approval and let us 15 go to Council. 16 17 Chair Chang: Okay. I have a question for staff. Thank you. So there is – regarding the office and 18 the need to make a Comp Plan amendment. Commissioner Summa had suggested that it would 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. be better to do just a variance. Is that something that can even be done? Because this is not a 1 zoning variance; this is a land use variance. 2 3 Jennifer Armer: Yeah. 4 5 Chair Chang: Is that correct? 6 7 Jennifer Armer: Yeah. So this is a modification to the City's Comprehensive Plan, and so 8 variance is something that we use for modifications to the zoning regulations. So unfortunately 9 the Comp Plan amendment is the path forward to allow this to proceed. 10 11 Chair Chang: Okay. And on that front, I also am not comfortable with something that's as broad 12 as currently written because we haven't had – there's no analysis on what the impact might be. 13 So if – it's just late and I'm worried about wordsmithing something that I'm not – without 14 understanding the impacts. So that's at least where I stand on that. Other thoughts before we 15 start entertaining motions? 16 17 Jennifer Armer: And through the Chair, just a remainder that if you are not comfortable moving 18 this forward tonight but do want to respond to the applicant's respo-, request, you could 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. recommend denial of the project as proposed and could list out the items that were of concern. 1 So that is always an option if you're not going to have enough… 2 3 Chair Chang: Is that [preferable 273:14] do you think? 4 5 Jennifer Armer: I think it's a balance. I always want to help the Planning Commission get to a 6 point where you can make a recommendation for approval, and it is beneficial for the Council 7 to have your perspective and your recommendation. But we are also balancing a desire to help 8 move these housing projects forward, and so it's a question for the Planning Commission. I just 9 wanted to make sure that you remembered that that is an option. If you want to allow it to 10 move forward with all of your concerns stated, that that is one option to recommend denial 11 with those explanations for why. 12 13 Chair Chang: Okay. I'm not quite sure I know where all my fellow Commissioners stand on this, 14 so maybe the best way is to – go ahead, Commissioner Summa. 15 16 Commissioner Summa: So I don't wish to deny the project. I wish the project to be approvable 17 by this body and subse-, and then by Council. And I do – this is a very – all of these issues were 18 – some of these issues were just – came to light this evening. That's problematic. But the text 19 amendment of the Comp Plan is really a deal-breaker for me, and that is the not the fault of the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. applicant or any of the work they've done. It's just insufficient. I have no idea what the impacts, 1 the pros and cons citywide of that might be, and it's just too big and broad for me to make this 2 evening. And I felt that continuing it with specific opportunities to resolve these issues would 3 be the best thing for everybody, including the applicant. 4 5 Jennifer Armer: I think that's really valuable clarification. What I – we were just hearing from 6 the applicant was an interest to move the project forward. I think that a concern with the 7 Comprehensive Plan amendment is a really clear reason to recommend denial of the project. If 8 you do not feel comfortable recommending that at this time, then there can't be support for 9 the project because that is a critical piece in the process. However, you do have the choice 10 tonight whether you want to recommend approval, recommend continuance, or recommend 11 denial. 12 13 Chair Chang: Well, then maybe the way to approach it is to first look at the Comp Plan 14 amendment piece because we can do separate motions or have separate discussions on that. 15 And if we find that the Commission approves the Comp Plan amendment, then we could – it's a 16 different reason for denying the project. So thoughts? 17 18 Commissioner Summa: So you're suggesting this evening to take a vote on the Comp Plan 19 amendment… 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Or… 2 3 Commissioner Summa: …separately from the project? 4 5 Chair Chang: Yes. Or to make a motion about continuing, say, just that piece of it when we ha-, 6 with more analysis and more information. 7 8 Commissioner Summa: That is the basis of… 9 10 Chair Chang: [Inaudible 276:53]. 11 12 Commissioner Summa: …Finding #3. 13 14 Chair Chang: No. I understand that. 15 16 Commissioner Summa: So… 17 18 Chair Chang: If we find… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: That's why I say it was a paradox. 1 2 Chair Chang: I don't know where the Commission stands with respect to the Comp Plan 3 amendment. It may be that we have a bunch of – it may be that we would approve it. I don't 4 know where we stand. If we wouldn't approve it, then it becomes moot. 5 6 Jennifer Armer: So you could have a discussion of the Comp Plan to get a sense of where the 7 Commission stands overall at that [inaudible 277:29]. 8 9 Chair Chang: Commissioner Peterson? Nobody's lighting anything up about discussions about 10 anything right now. 11 12 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. 13 14 Chair Chang: It's too late I think. 15 16 Commissioner Peterson: I'm favorable to whatever it takes to finish up the work and move it to 17 Council. I – the applicant seems to be working with us, has obviously been working on this for a 18 while, seems capable of resolving any of these issues we put forward. I think we've teased out 19 all the problems, which seems to be what our job is. Staff seems to have a good understanding. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. I think we found the gaps in what's been presented to us, and I think Council's capable of 1 having that in front of them and having the applicant having that fixed before it gets to Council. 2 That's my honest opinion from what I see. 3 4 Chair Chang: Vice-Chair Akin? 5 6 Vice-Chair Akin: So looking at Packet Page 27 where the Comp Plan change is described, it 7 specifically says as part of a Planned Community Zone or in accordance with retail preservation 8 requirements. So it is considerably more restrictive than universally across all cases in the City. 9 Does that you make feel any less concerned? 10 11 Commissioner Summa: No, because a PC can go anywhere and PCs can also be amended. So I 12 didn't s-, I did not say it was – had potential for affecting every application in the City. I said it 13 had potential for affecting every PC - any PC application or any PC amendment. And I think 14 that's significant to do citywide without a clear understanding of the impacts. 15 16 Vice-Chair Akin: Yeah. I guess I'm – I guess I am less worried about that because of the general 17 Wild West aspect of PCs where we learned that essentially anything is fair game. 18 19 Chair Chang: [That's the problem 279:30]. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Vice-Chair Akin: So I don't like that very much, but it seems like it's a – it applies in this issue as 2 well. 3 4 Chair Chang: Okay. Commissioner Hechtman? 5 6 Commissioner Hechtman: So I'm supportive of this project, and I'd actually like to move it 7 forward with a favorable recommendation. I'm not feeling like I have the supportive majority of 8 the Commission right now for that, so let me just address a couple of the big issues that keep 9 being talked about. First of all, the Comp Plan amendment. I've been on this Commission 5 10 years and this is the first time this issue has come up. The first time in 5 years that somebody 11 with office in a residential zone wanted to keep some office and add residential. And 12 Commissioner Summa, she's finishing her 8th year and I suspect it hadn't come up in that time 13 either or else she would have mentioned it. So I'm really not concerned about this somehow 14 opening the flood gates to now everybody's going to want to do it, because it only applies in a 15 very small number of circumstances. As Vice-Chair Akin just mentioned, there are limitations 16 actually built in to the proposed language. And even if it's in the Comp Plan, it's not an 17 automatic you get your office. It's still a discretionary approval that will be wrestled over just 18 like this one. However, unlike this one, those probably will not be sitting on top of a Builder's 19 Remedy. And I am concerned that we can frustrate this applicant to the point where they just – 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. they're telling us tonight they don't want to keep coming back here. And we can get to a point 1 where we just frustrate them to the point where they say we're sorry, we just have to go do the 2 BR now because we can't be stalled however well our intentions are. So I think we should be 3 moving it forward. 4 5 In terms of the street improvements, we've got a project in front of us. We have no plan for the 6 corner of University and Middlefield in front of us. If we did, staff would have included in their 7 staff report how these things need to be tied together and whether something the applicant is 8 doing is impacting that corner in a way that we might be imposing requirements on them. But 9 that's not happening. We've got a project applicant, no plan, just a future pipe dream of what 10 might happen in that corner. So I don't think we should be conditioning it. I do think it would be 11 appropriate to put a pin in it to recommend that between now and the time it gets to Council it 12 be explored. Maybe there is a way to drop the corner parking space – whatever – to save a 13 place. That could be explored, and I think that that is an appropriate recommendation. 14 15 I am interested in, if I were to make a motion to move this forward, dialoguing a little bit more 16 about the parking rate issue to see if Vice-Chair Akin and I can find some common ground 17 because I think we both agree it's an issue. I just – right now I'm not sure we agree on what's 18 the solution that we should impose, but I'm open to talk more about that. So those are my 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. overall thoughts. I don't want to continue this. I don't want to send it go forward with a 1 recommendation of denial. 2 3 Chair Chang: Commissioner Ji. 4 5 Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. So I'm a little bit concerned about the amendment to the 6 Comprehensive Plan for a couple reasons. So one is that PC zones – there are 98 of them in Palo 7 Alto and some of them are in cul-de-sacs with single-family homes. So I think that, although it is 8 the Wild West, I would love to see an analysis of the potential different parcels and other 9 impacts there would be by this Comprehensive Plan amendment here. 10 11 I also want to talk a little bit about what Commissioner Hechtman said about this kind of 12 Planned Community retail preservation occurring during his time as a Commissioner. My 13 understanding – and other folks can correct me – that the PC zone was on a little bit of a 14 hibernation for a significant portion of time, and so that may be one of the reasons why these 15 kinds of PC amendments with retail preservation hadn't come up. 16 17 And then I also want to talk a little bit about the stalling. Looking at the timeline, it looks like 18 this body has moved forward the last time it came to us, and we moved it forward to the ARB 19 pretty expeditiously. So I do think that there are significant questions that have come before us 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. today that I would like to see answered. And so with those comments, I am looking potentially 1 towards a continuance at this time. 2 3 Jennifer Armer: Chair, if I may speak to one of the requested pieces of information from 4 Commissioner Ji? 5 6 Chair Chang: Yes. Go ahead. 7 8 Jennifer Armer: In regards to analysis of all of the different planned developm- or planned 9 communities within the City, that is a level of analysis that I would not advocate for as part of a 10 Comprehensive Plan amendment. Any change to any of those is a fully discretionary act. It is a 11 rezoning of those, and so while this opens that as something that could be requested, it is 12 something that would have a project by project analysis. And so that level of detail of analysis 13 for a Comprehensive Plan amendment of this sort is not something that staff would 14 recommend. 15 16 Commissioner Ji: [Inaudible 285:45]. 17 18 Jennifer Armer: And – go ahead. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Emily Kallas: Okay. Another important point of clarification is you asked for analysis of existing 1 planned communities. This specifically would not affect those because it is saying for properties 2 that have existing commercial use if they did a P-, and are already zoned for residential use and 3 choose to do a Planned Community Zone – because what this is modifying is the Multiple-4 Family Residential Land Use Designation. So if it is in the Multi-Family Residential Land Use 5 Zone and has existing commercial and wants to do a PC, they can keep the existing commercial. 6 7 Commissioner Ji: Sure. So I guess my… 8 9 Jennifer Armer: If approved. 10 11 Emily Kallas: If approved. 12 13 Jennifer Armer: Through the PC. 14 15 Emily Kallas: So it doesn't affect existing PCs pretty much at all. 16 17 Commissioner Ji: I guess my point just being I don't know how many there are, I don't where 18 they are. I guess I'd just like to know more information at this time, just as part of my decision 19 towards moving towards a continuance. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: All right. So my concern when I was going through this packet regarding the Comp 2 Plan amendment was that it did feel too broad to me, but it might not be too broad at all. I just 3 don't know how much grandfathered retail preservation – which we'd all probably be in favor 4 of – but how much commercial square footage exists in multi-family zones? And what I have 5 seen in this City over time are a lot of – it's a lot of pressure towards commercial space. We just 6 saw it with Fry's. We saw it that we had something that was zoned RM-30 for I think – zoned 7 multiple-family residential for decades, for 30 years, and that was the intention of the 8 community. And then it gets changed by a PC. Now what – my point being is that there is a 9 process for the Comp Plan. There's a process that was quite in depth that lasted years to create 10 the Comp Plan and to decide on our land use. And so to make changes like this concerns me 11 when I don't know what the impact is, particularly given the extreme pressure for housing right 12 now and what we continually hear is the need for office or commercial space in order for things 13 to pencil out. And yet we as a community know that in certain areas we want it to be 14 exclusively multi-family residential, and I just don't understand how much would be affected by 15 making this amendment. I would – I actually think it's quite appropriate in this particular spot 16 because there's commercial all around it. 17 18 And so we were able – I was kind of thinking about this going how do I limit the impact of this 19 potentially without even knowing if there is an impact. I don't know how much grandfathered 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. commercial there is, but if it's within 50 feet of existing C-, commercial zones, then of course. 1 Then it makes sense. So that would be a way to conscribe it or a way to – we could specify the 2 type of commercial that would be allowed. We've struggled with this definition and we wanted 3 to create a definition actually that we could use – but we don't have it yet – of community 4 serving commercial. We've talked about this probably a year ago at this point, and if I had those 5 tools at my disposal, then I think I could make a quick correction. The problem is I don't have 6 those tools at my disposal, and I think if I could do a spot for this PC for the Comp Plan, then it 7 would make a lot more sense to me. But I just – on principle, it's just not the right way to use 8 the Comp Plan without knowing, and so that's my concern. I don't see other lights. 9 10 Albert Yang: One quick comment… 11 12 Chair Chang: Go ahead. 13 14 Albert Yang: …which is just about the reason that there's a reference to retail preservation here 15 is because right now we have a conflict between our retail preservation ordinance and our 16 Comp Plan in the multiple-family designation because our Retail Preservation Ordinance says 17 that you need to keep your retail, but if it's not prevented in the Comp Plan, then you can't do 18 that. So it's only in here because we were trying to resolve that conflict. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Well, I underst-, I don't think that there's any iss-, thank you for clarifying that, and 1 I could vote today on that portion in accordance with retail preservation. I could do that part 2 because we have a law and we have all this indication from the community as well as Council 3 that that's what they want. It's the rest, the existing commercial – the other commercial square 4 footage that we haven't specified what kind of commercial that could be or where it could be, 5 and – thank you for that clarification, Mr. Yang. 6 7 Albert Yang: I'm sorry. So the rest – I'm not understanding the comment because the rest of the 8 sentence is limited by the first half of the sentence. 9 10 Chair Chang: Well, no. It says or in accordance with retail preservation. So basically there could 11 be office as in this situation. It's not retail; it's office. 12 13 Albert Yang: Right, but only as part of a planned community. 14 15 Chair Chang: Well, I understand that, but I just don't know where it is and we – what we see is 16 planned community after planned community that wants to continue an office use. And I'm not 17 sure that we want it in multiple-family residential. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Albert Yang: Well, so I guess I would say I was trying to think about how would staff present the 1 information that's being asked for. On the one hand, it's a map of every single commercial use 2 that's in an RM zone. It – that's basically even if it's not a PC today, it could apply for a PC in the 3 future. I would agree with the earlier staff comments that the existing PCs don't figure into this 4 at all because they're already PCs. If they have commercial, it's because it's allowed in a PC, and 5 so they're not going to be coming back and looking for an amendment to that. 6 7 Emily Kallas: So what I've pulled up on the screen is the Land Use Designation Map from the 8 Comp Plan. The multi-family is this beige color. And so just roughly speaking, it's what I would 9 describe as kind of the greater outlying downtown area, greater outlying Cal Ave area, a couple 10 little pockets on Middlefield and El Camino including whatever this relatively large portion 11 along El Camino is. But where we see… 12 13 Chair Chang: So where we plan for a lot of housing, I believe, over by Fabian and San Antonio – 14 that little beige corner? 15 16 Emily Kallas: There is a beige corner over here. Yes. 17 18 Chair Chang: Yeah. We don't want to be preserving office there, for example. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Emily Kallas: But it would need to be in the PC process. 1 2 Chair Chang: I know, but we get – we are going to get asked for a lot of PCs because we've been 3 asked – all the PCs ask for office. So that's, I think, a prime example of my concern. But if I were 4 to say – again, I don't know the right way to – I think I could make this happen and – but I just 5 don't have the information. 6 7 Commissioner Summa: If I could comment. 8 9 Chair Chang: Commissioner Summa. 10 11 Commissioner Summa: So I will say that Commissioner Ji is correct. PCs were on a hiatus and 12 the last one that was approved before they went on hiatus was before I was on the Planning 13 Commission. And I do think that, rightly so, the PHZ process as approved by the Council but not 14 yet really in our municipal code which is why I think this – another reason why that should have 15 happened because this issue could have been resolved if staff brought it forward. So yeah, 16 there really haven't been PZs until now, but the PHC is an attractive option to developers and 17 we want it to mostly get us housing because that's what we need. So I still have a concern 18 about it and I don't think it needs to be an onerous task. It's just that they're very specific places 19 where it may be antithetical to our pursuit of housing. So that's why – and honestly, I don't 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. remember this being – I don't remember this recommendation being in staff reports – or 1 previous staff report for this. So – and I understand it and it may be a really good idea and 2 maybe it just needs to be refined and we didn't have an opportunity to do so. 3 4 Chair Chang: All right. Do we have a motion? I don't see lights. That's why I'm asking for the 5 motion. There may be more discussions. I don't want to cut it off, but I don't – I'm not getting 6 an indication from the Commission. 7 8 Commissioner Summa: Well, because I do not wish to deny this project and I also think that the 9 PTC has been – and our limited review of this project have been very speedy, I would like to 10 make a motion to continue this project and I can make it as full – I can make it more or less full 11 of things that we want to have come back to us or – but for me, the main thing would be – so I 12 will make a motion to continue this project and the point of the continuation would be for a 13 swift return to the Planning Commission of the text amendment to the Comp Plan on its own 14 with more detail in – and consideration of the impacts and given – and that we should – I think 15 the other recommended condition of approvals should be considered also, and that was – the 16 first one was from Commissioner Akin about his – with regarding rethinking maybe the monthly 17 fees as they relate to the RPP for the unbundled parking, and rethinking the engineering and 18 easement of the 24-foot special setback with regards to future multimodal use of said setback, 19 and with a consideration to remove asphalt where it is around Tree 10 after it is completed 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. with the understanding that the asphalt protects the tree during construction. And I'm not sure 1 if more stackers – more use of stackers, which Commissioner Hechtman included, was 2 answered, but if that's appropriate, also additional stackers to increase parking in the parking 3 garage. Does anybody have anything to add? 4 5 Vice-Chair Akin: Do we need to say to request specifically the easement on Middlefield so that 6 the… 7 8 Commissioner Summa: Yes. 9 10 Vice-Chair Akin: …space can be used… 11 12 Commissioner Summa: Yes, the easement on Middlefield. 13 14 Vice-Chair Akin: …to preserve access to the special setback? 15 16 Commissioner Summa: That's fine. Yeah. 17 18 Chair Chang: Did you have something to say… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: Yes. 1 2 Chair Chang: …Ms. Armer? 3 4 Jennifer Armer: Thank you. I did – before we move forward any further with this motion, I did 5 want to provide clarification that staff's analysis of the impacts of this Comprehensive Plan 6 amendment is that it is a less than significant, and so this is the analysis that was provided for 7 this item. 8 9 Female: What… 10 11 Vice-Chair Akin: I missed your train of thought there. I'm sorry. I didn't understand what that 12 applied to. 13 14 Jennifer Armer: So… 15 16 Albert Yang: I'm – I guess staff is trying to understand what information the Commission wants 17 to have come back because from our perspective this amendment does not have any 18 implications – broad implications. Any requests for a PC can be denied. So there – this isn't 19 going to have any effect. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Jennifer Armer: And in this case, we have heard from you that this is an appropriate place to 2 allow this. In other locations, as has been stated, it may not be appropriate and they'd be 3 required to go through the PC process for that. In addition, I think I was hoping for clarification 4 on the Residential Parking Program request, what you were asking for that because we weren't 5 talking about a change to this City's rental – Residential Parking Program as part of this project. 6 7 Vice-Chair Akin: No. That wasn't the intent. The – what I had proposed was a condition of 8 approval which simply tied the lease rates for the parking spaces in the project to the permit 9 costs for RPP. 10 11 Jennifer Armer: Okay. Thank you for that clarification. 12 13 Commissioner Summa: And to respond to the point you made. I see the points about this, but I 14 also feel very strongly that the text amendment to the Comp Plan c-, should have come to us 15 separately and maybe it would have been a very brief conversation if we had had just a little 16 meat on the bones to understand any potential impacts and also to make it – so it just seems 17 like really a bad sequence of events to have that in the same – as i-, the c-, Finding #3 – I'll just 18 say it again – is conditional on understanding that and it's not existing yet and we're making a 19 recommendation on a finding that I can't make because there has been no text amendment 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. yet. And so I am making a finding that the Council – and a recommendation to Council based on 1 something that I don't know what's going to happen with it. I don't know where it's going to go, 2 so it's a paradox to me because I'm making a finding on something that doesn't yet exist. And I 3 just think it's better to split them up, and I think in splitting them up, it's meaningless to vote on 4 it tonight. And if it is truly not a pithy issue, I think the staff report and bringing it back to us 5 really quickly would be very helpful, and it might – if we had had this brought up before, we 6 could have looked at specific areas where we thought this would be an unwanted additional 7 potential Wild West situation for PCs. 8 9 And once y-, and I guess I take it kind of seriously. I was on the last Comp Plan rewrite group. It 10 was 2 or 3 years, and I take it seriously. And I think this is the wrong process for us to do this on 11 the same night in conjunction with one motion. So if you think the other – and I tried to 12 incorporate what would have been conditions of approval from my colleagues to represent 13 everybody in this continuance. And if those conditions of approval are clear from either the 14 motion or the record of the evening and your notes, then I'm looking for a second, unless 15 somebody needs to add another – those were the conditions of approval that I kept track of. 16 17 Chair Chang: I think there were some bird-friendly glass things as well, so I would add that as a 18 condition of approval. Bird-friendly glass on the 6th floor and on the balconies. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: I will accept that. 1 2 Chair Chang: Okay. So we also have lights from Commissioner Peterson and then Commissioner 3 Ji, and I don't know if this is regarding the motion that's on the table or – because we want to 4 keep it to that right now. 5 6 Commissioner Peterson: It was a ghost bump. 7 8 Chair Chang: Okay. And then Commissioner Ji. 9 10 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. So mine is about the motion. 11 12 Chair Chang: Okay. 13 14 Commissioner Ji: So I'm not sure if maybe the other Commissioners are also interested in 15 adding a parking study as something to look at for this as part of the continuance. Just wanted 16 to get kind of a straw poll. 17 18 Vice-Chair Akin: I don't think I would. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Ji: Okay. 1 2 Vice-Chair Akin: It needs to be done but not as part of this project. 3 4 Commissioner Ji: And then the other thing is potentially – I know that the applicant has said 5 that the office space is for penciling out and not for FEMA, but potentially just getting a 6 confirmation about the FEMA requirements for office – I would potentially add that to the 7 continuance. 8 9 Commissioner Summa: I will accept that [also 305:14]. 10 11 Commissioner Ji: Okay. So then I will not add the parking study but only add the FEMA to the 12 continuance. 13 14 Chair Chang: We still need a second. And is the bird-safe – bird-friendly glass in? 15 16 Commissioner Summa: Yes. 17 18 Chair Chang: Okay. The bird-friendly glass is in. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Ji: Then I will second. 1 2 Chair Chang: Okay. Vice-Chair Akin? 3 4 Vice-Chair Akin: Just a quick question of the applicant. While we are dealing with all of this 5 stuff, can you make progress on the engineering questions related to the garage so that we can 6 move things forward as quickly as possible? Is that feasible? 7 8 Boyd Smith: I think I'm just going to repeat what I said. We don't want a continuance. We're 9 happy to study and discuss this with Council, but we don't want a continuance of this meeting, 10 respectfully. 11 12 Chair Chang: Do we have additional discussion on the motion? Can you recap it maybe just to 13 make sure because there were so many… 14 15 Commissioner Summa: I know. I will just say… 16 17 Chair Chang: I want to make sure we have it. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: …this is why we need – like other boards and commissions – why we 1 need somebody writing down the motions. I don't understand why we don't, but anyway, you 2 guys can deal with it. So I would like to continue this motion at this time to give – this is not 3 going to be the exact same wording because I didn't write it down – to give staff the time to 4 bring back the text amendment to the Comprehensive Plan to us separately to continue – to 5 consider with a – more of a analysis of the impacts, to consider Commissioner Akin's 6 recommendations for restructuring the monthly fees to more align – for the parking spaces to 7 align better with the RPP in the neighborhood, to – where's my other page – to address the 8 potential – the engineering and potential use of the 24-foot setback considering all the issues 9 that came up this evening regarding the needs of actually building additional multimodal 10 contributions to the road there, to keep the asphalt in place where it is not covered up but to 11 remove it after construction is complete, to add bird gla-, to require bird glass not just for the 12 top story of the building but also for the balconies where glass is used, and – what was the last 13 one? 14 15 Commissioner Ji: The FEMA. FEMA. 16 17 Commissioner Summa: And to clarify the – whether the con-, whether the FEMA issue is an 18 absolute building requirement with FEMA or if it is a requirement only of getting the federal 19 ins-, being eligible for the federal insurance. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Jennifer Armer: And I believe you also mentioned use of additional parking stackers… 2 3 Commissioner Summa: I did… 4 5 Jennifer Armer: …or consideration of... 6 7 Commissioner Summa: That was if Commissioner Hechtman wanted to add that because it was 8 his idea. 9 10 Jennifer Armer: Okay. No. All right. 11 12 Commissioner Summa: And he says no, so we don't need to. 13 14 Jennifer Armer: And then staff would ask for more specifics as to what it is you are requesting 15 staff return with, what information you are looking to have in terms of more analysis of the 16 impacts of the Comprehensive Plan amendment. 17 18 Commissioner Summa: That would be an outline of the areas that w-, it would affect with a 19 minimal information on existing conditions and things nearby and that sort of thing so that we 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. could see if there were areas that we didn't want to do this or we wanted to carve it out. Staff 1 must have had – when you were thinking of doing – recommending this, you must have had 2 conversations about why it was a good idea. And I can understand that it might not be a very 3 long staff report and it might be a very short item, but it also solves the problem of the fact that 4 I can't make Finding 3 this evening because the text amendment doesn't exist yet. 5 6 Chair Chang: Like the land use map would… 7 8 Jennifer Armer: Yeah. 9 10 Chair Chang: …be helpful. 11 12 Jennifer Armer: Yeah. And I understand that. And we can provide the land use map. I am 13 concerned about how promptly we could put together a map with that kind of information 14 about existing uses, land use map, and adjacent uses to give you that level of detail. But we will 15 take your motion, if it does pass, and move forward with that. So thank you for that additional 16 detail. I would add that if – since this is only allowed through a new Planned Community Zone, 17 that there would be detailed analysis at that time if one were proposed, but we've heard that 18 there is still an outstanding concern even with that factor. Thank you. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: Yes. So my intention is not to make it onerous but… 1 2 Chair Chang: Commissioner Peterson. 3 4 Commissioner Peterson: We can talk to the motion now? 5 6 Chair Chang: Yes, please. 7 8 Commissioner Peterson: So I do appreciate my colleagues, but I can't vote for that – for a 9 continuance. I just would really like to see this go to Council and I think everything could get 10 solved on the way. I just don't see a need. And I'm hearing staff's sounding like there's really 11 not a need for a lot of this. 12 13 Chair Chang: Additional discussion? 14 15 Vice-Chair Akin: I think Council will be unhappy that we didn't solve this for them. Yeah, I would 16 like to see the project move forward too, and I was hoping that we would be able to find ways 17 to do that tonight. I don't have an easy solution. I am not as concerned about the Comp Plan 18 amendment as you are, but I have to acknowledge the validity of the argument. So… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Anybody else? Okay. Let's take the vote then, please, Ms. Dao. 1 2 Veronica Dao: Vice-Chair Akin? 3 4 Vice-Chair Akin: Yes. 5 6 Veronica Dao: Chair Chang? 7 8 Chair Chang: Yes. 9 10 Veronica Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 11 12 Commissioner Hechtman: No. 13 14 Veronica Dao: Commissioner Ji? 15 16 Commissioner Ji: Yes. 17 18 Veronica Dao: Commissioner Summa? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: Yes. 1 2 Veronica Dao: Commissioner Peterson? 3 4 Commissioner Peterson: No. 5 6 Veronica Dao: Motion carries 4-2. 7 8 Chair Chang: Would you like to speak to your no votes? 9 10 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. So I already previewed this. I think a number of the 11 components here that are coming back to us could have been shaped in a positive 12 recommendation to Council as to things we wanted to make them aware of that – or 13 recommended conditions of approval like the glass. And then on the Comp Plan, I guess I'm 14 taking the long view here. People maybe are a little hung up on semantics of what we now call 15 a PHZ or a PC. A planned development, whether it's called PD, PUD, PC, it's been around since 16 the '60s. I think the way we first got to know Commissioner Ji was with the Commons, which I 17 think had a PC from 1987. And last year we had something on Middlefield with a house across a 18 private street from an area that had been used for parking was a PC from the '60s, I think. So 19 this creature has always – it has for more than 50 years been a part of our Palo Alto process, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. but until tonight we never needed this provision. So to me, that gives me comfort that we're 1 not going to see this flood of stuff come from all over the City because the circumstances where 2 these can exist, there aren't that many of them. They – it's got to be an existing office building 3 today in an area zoned for multi-family residential today. And even if that's true, it's not a 4 gimme. They still have to apply for the PC and get the City to exercise its discretion. So down on 5 San Antonio if we don't want any office, maybe we're going to exercise our discretion to say no 6 to a project that includes office. But to hear kind of – throw out the baby with the bath water 7 and risk a very unhappy applicant after 3½ years just saying the heck with it, we'll go Builder's 8 Remedy – I think this was the wrong direction for us tonight. 9 10 Chair Chang: Would you like to speak to your no vote? Okay. Go ahead, Commissioner. 11 12 Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. I agree 100 percent. Thank you. 13 14 Chair Chang: All right. 15 16 3. Recommendation on an Ordinance to Amend the El Camino Real Focus Area 17 (Chapter 18.14 of the Palo Alto Municipal Code), Implementing Program 3.4E of the 18 Housing Element. CEQA Status: The Addendum to the Comprehensive Plan 19 Environmental Impact Report (EIR), considered by the City Council on April 15, 2024, 20 analyzed potential environmental impacts of the 6th Cycle Draft Housing Element 21 including Program 3.4E. 22 23 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: So we move on to Item number – we're going to skip Item #3 because that was 1 continued. 2 3 4. Update Planning and Transportation Commission Procedural Rules 4 5 Chair Chang: Item #4 hopefully will be very quick. This is to update the Planning and 6 Transportation Commission Procedural Rules. I don't know if there's a staff report for this or if 7 you… 8 9 Jennifer Armer: Just… 10 11 Chair Chang: …want me to speak to what I… 12 13 Jennifer Armer: Nothing to add to the written staff report that was provided in your packet. 14 15 Chair Chang: All right. And I'll just provide some quick context. This is a longstanding problem 16 that we've had where the language that is on the front of our packet and on our agenda often 17 doesn't match what our procedural rules say. And so it's confusing for the public and confusing 18 for us as to how many minutes their public comment time could get reduced to, which makes it 19 difficult for the public to participate and to plan in advance their comments because they need 20 to decide – it's pretty different if they show up with 5 minutes and it could get cut to 2 or 3 and 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. they don't know which it is. And so I, in looking at this, just wanted to solve that problem, and I 1 also wanted to make it consistent with all the other boards and commissions so that members 2 of the public when participating in Palo Alto's public process have a consistent time threshold 3 of the 2 minutes that is there for other commissions. And then, as the staff report mentioned, 4 there's also – other boards and commissions have a different time that applicants are allowed. 5 They're allowed only 10 minutes typically, and so while we are looking at that issue, we can 6 decide whether we also want to become consistent with other boards and commissions or not. 7 So any discussion? 8 9 I did listen in while I was out and I heard Commissioners say that maybe we should allow the 10 flexibility to reduce speaker time down to 1 minute. And I would just argue, please, for 11 consistency, for the members of the public, let's just be the same as all the other commissions 12 in terms of the bottom limit. I don't have a particular view – I do think it's really important that 13 we hear members of the public. That's one of our primary rolls and we added it to our mission 14 one year. That said, if we want to shorten it, I really think that it would be better if we kind of – 15 there was a larger effort to just make it consistent across all the boards and commissions for 16 the ease of public participation. So that's my opinion though. 17 18 PUBLIC COMMENTS 19 Jennifer Armer: And speaking of public comment, if we could check to see if there is anyone to 20 speak. 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Good point. This is an action item. Are there any public comments about this? 2 3 Veronica Dao: It looks like no. I have no raised hands or speaker cards. 4 5 Chair Chang: Okay. A ques-, a comment from Commissioner Summa. 6 7 Commissioner Summa: I think it's a great idea and just the way it is because it's always been 8 confusing. And I think – and it pops up on our staff reports wrong all the time, and I think it's 9 because it's an anomaly and it's an accident. But then it's really – I just think it's a much better 10 thing and I don't think we – I agree about 2 minutes, and I think to align ourselves with the 11 other boards and commissions and make it easy on staff and the public is a great idea. 12 13 Chair Chang: Commissioner Hechtman. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: So I'm just trying to understand what everyone else is doing. So right 16 now in ARB and HRB, it's 5 minutes reducible down to 2? Is that right? 17 18 Jennifer Armer: Correct. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. And for groups right now in both of those, is it 10 minutes – 1 which is what we do? Right? 2 3 Jennifer Armer: So the 10 minutes that's referenced in the staff report is for the applicant… 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: I know. 6 7 Jennifer Armer: …at the beginning. Okay. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: I know. Yeah. This – I'm off the menu. But I – again, I'm just trying 10 to… 11 12 Jennifer Armer: You're testing me here. 13 14 Commissioner Hechtman: Right. Sorry. I didn't mean to trick you, but yeah. Okay. So then in 15 terms of applicant, ARB and HRB are at 10 minute. Right? 16 17 Jennifer Armer: Yes. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. And what we call rebuttal – are they both at 3 minute for the 1 applicant or appellant? 2 3 Jennifer Armer: I will put that up and confirm it for you. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. If our goal to really dovetail everything, then that's why I'm 6 going actually a little bit broader. 7 8 Chair Chang: No. Thank you. 9 10 Commissioner Hechtman: Because I like your concept of consistency across the boards even if 11 Council is maybe sometimes a little more harsh and goes to 1 minute. I think your approach is 12 perfect, and so I'd like us to do whatever we need to do to make that consistent across the 13 board. 14 15 Chair Chang: I just wanted to add one thing also as I was working with staff on this. Staff was 16 the one who brought up the question about for the applicant whether we wanted to shorten 17 the time. And I don't – I can see both ways. Staff's comment on it was that in other cities, say, 18 Los Gatos, it's down to 5 minutes and that our applicants thus far that we've seen rarely use the 19 full 15 minutes. That said, I will say that PTC projects are often much more complex than those 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. going before the other boards, and I don't want to – I think that deviating for the applicant is a 1 little bit different from deviating for the average member of the public because the applicant is 2 coached by – is provided the information by staff. So I don't want to cut that short either. 3 4 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. 5 6 Chair Chang: That's just some nuance there. Commissioner Ji has a light on. 7 8 Commissioner Ji: I actually had the same off the menu question as Commissioner Hechtman 9 about groups because I myself was a member of a group in which the time got changed on me a 10 couple times and they kept telling me different information. So I'll just wait for staff on that. 11 So… 12 13 Jennifer Armer: So first I am looking at the rebuttal time, and I'm finding that the rebuttal time 14 for the Historic Resources Board is actually 10 minutes. So we may not want to get into that. 15 That may actually be the same for the Architectural Review Board as well. 16 17 Chair Chang: And we have not seen our applicants use – need to use that amount of time, so… 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: And you can provide them additional time or extend that time by asking 1 questions. So it's not that they are absolutely cut off at that time if there is more information 2 that the Commission needs. 3 4 Chair Chang: Yeah. Again, I think I am much more concerned about making this consistent for 5 the average member of the public because they won't know what they're getting and we've 6 seen people get confused here [inaudible 323:28]. 7 8 Commissioner Hechtman: So for the public comment, I am supportive of 5 reducible to 2 in 9 terms of applicants. In terms of groups, my understanding is it's always 10 and I thought you 10 had to have 5 people. I was a little confused tonight because I heard the woman who got up – 11 the second group speaker – there were only 2 names associated with her. That's what I heard, 12 and so I was like hm, that's interesting. But there were plenty of people here, so I wasn't overly 13 concerned about it. But it needs to be clear. If it's 10 minutes, you need 5 people somewhere 14 where people know in advance like when they read the agenda to know to put that together 15 and that they can count on it so they don't get surprised at the meeting. I will say as somebody 16 who has presented to planning commissions and councils over and over again, when you have a 17 complicated project, 10 minutes can go by really fast, particularly if there are – and we had it 18 tonight – 2 or 3 team members who really need to contribute something to paint an overall 19 picture. And often 3 minutes for rebuttal is too tight. I agree that people seem to be handling it 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. here. We haven't had a lot of controversial projects where I think rebuttal would be more 1 forthcoming. When I think back on Castilleja, if we'd told them you get 3 minutes, that would 2 have been difficult to do. 3 4 Chair Chang: I think what I've seen though is that as a – it's not officially in our bi-, in our 5 procedural rules, but we're pretty generous in terms of asking the applicant for clarification and 6 allowing them time. 7 8 Commissioner Hechtman: That's true. 9 10 Chair Chang: So maybe we don't need to change that. 11 12 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. So I don't feel strongly about that, but I do think if we try to 13 match the 10-minute time limit for applicants, it may prove challenging and so maybe we want 14 [their 326:02] – because we've got some other language already in our agenda that says unless 15 more time is agreed upon by the Chair or something. That's already – isn't that in our – let's 16 see. 17 18 Chair Chang: I don't remember seeing that but… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Let's see. So here's our 5 or more. Where's… 1 2 Jennifer Armer: So yeah, it is, I believe, supposed to be 5 or more, at least for the ARB and HRB. 3 4 Commissioner Hechtman: Right. 5 6 Chair Chang: Okay. So do we have a motion? 7 8 Commissioner Ji: Wait. I had a qu-, I was wondering, Ms. Armer, if you got to that group 9 number, so… 10 11 Jennifer Armer: Yeah. 12 13 Commissioner Ji: Okay. 14 15 Jennifer Armer: So in – for Planning and Transportation Commission, the language currently 16 says when any group of people wishes to address the Commission on the same subject matter, 17 the presiding officer will inform the group that the spokesperson may be chosen by the group 18 to address the Commission, and spokespersons who are representing a group of 5 or more 19 people who are identified as present at the Commission meeting at the time of the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. spokesperson's presentation will be allowed up to 10 minutes at the discretion of the presiding 1 officer. 2 3 Commissioner Ji: Is that consistent with other boards? 4 5 Jennifer Armer: The others actually allow up to 15. 6 7 Commissioner Ji: Okay. That's where I was curious about. 8 9 Jennifer Armer: Yeah. And it looks like with the HRB and ARB, they allow 10 minutes initial 10 presentation and 10-minute rebuttal, so if we wish to align those other components. 11 12 Commissioner Ji: So I just had a follow-up on that language about the group. So it says you have 13 groups and then it says if there's 5 or more you get 10, but what does that m-, yeah – up to 10 – 14 but what does mean for a group of 3? That's unclear. 15 16 Jennifer Armer: Correct. And so we could revise to align with the other if you'd prefer. 17 18 Chair Chang: Revise to align with the others which require a group of 5. Is that what you're 19 saying? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Jennifer Armer: So when – let me make sure I'm reading the language. Well, it's similar 2 language. Yeah. Sorry. But we could revise it to make it explicit that it's only if it's a group of 5 3 or more, unless you'd like to leave it as it is and allow smaller groups. 4 5 Chair Chang: Actually I think that we should revise it because it seems to be – in having 6 members of the public contact me beforehand, they are assuming that it's going to be groups 7 of 5 or more. So I think that just would make it consistent. Now on the time though, I am a little 8 bit loath to increase it to 15 minutes, but… 9 10 Jennifer Armer: It is at your discretion. You never have to allow the 15 minutes. 11 12 Chair Chang: I know, but I want to make this predictable for people because it's really difficult 13 to create a Power Point presentation and everything else. So I want to make it predictable and I 14 want to make it clear. 15 16 Commissioner Ji: All right. I actually personally have a strong preference for 15 – sorry – 17 because that would make it such that it would be 5 times 3, so it'd pretty much fair that each 18 person – you get to use the 3 minutes for each previous person. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: There's no disincentive to have people continue their 3 minutes individual. 1 2 Commissioner Ji: Also, 10 minutes goes by really fast as someone who speaks, and I think all of 3 you know I speak very quickly too. So I'm – I think I'm personally in favor of 15 at the discretion 4 of the Chair. So, yeah. Ms. Armer? 5 6 Jennifer Armer: Well, I would just point out that you are considering reducing it to 2 minute – 7 potentially reducing to 2 minutes, so 2 times 5 would be 10. 8 9 Commissioner Ji: Yeah. But I'm just saying that the base starts at – is the max would be 15 at 10 discretion of the Chair, which I think I believe the reading here is it's 3 – oh, 5. Yeah. I'll just say 11 that my preference is 15 at the discretion of the Chair. 12 13 Chair Chang: Other thoughts? [Or is everybody 330:22] falling asleep? 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: So right now– I'm just going back to how much a member of the 16 public – how much time they have. And so the language we're looking at is it's 5 but down to 2, 17 but the language that is on the cover, and I think has been since I started, is public comments 18 will be accepted both in person and via Zoom – that part was not there my first couple of 19 meetings – for up to 3 minutes or an amount of time determined by the Chair. So this is always 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. what's confused me about – is it 3 or 5? So are we going to formalize now that it's 5 reducible 1 to 2 and then we'll change this sentence to read like that? 2 3 Chair Chang: So I believe that there's a difference between the public comments on any issue 4 versus public comments on specific agenda items, and we probably should just standardize it 5 for everything. 6 7 Commissioner Hechtman: I thought about that, but under this heading public comments, we 8 have multiple paragraphs including spokespersons. So – and we've never had in the public 9 comments section a spokesperson for a group of 5 or any number, so that's why I [inaudible 10 331:53]. 11 12 Chair Chang: I agree. That's why it's confusing, and I think that – well, right now everything 13 matches. Well, it actually says public comments are 3 minutes per speaker elsewhere on our 14 agenda. 15 16 Commissioner Hechtman: Right. It does say – yeah [inaudible 332:12]. 17 18 Chair Chang: It's just totally confusing. So we just need to decide what it is. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. Maybe what we do – because we have it individually – if we 1 take it out of the public – the first page. So just say the accepted in person and via Zoom and 2 get rid of the time there, so that way we have a different time for public comment. 3 4 Chair Chang: Well, but I think we are needing to specify these things like requests to speak will 5 be taken until 5 minutes after. 6 7 Commissioner Hechtman: No, no. Keep that. 8 9 Chair Chang: Okay. 10 11 Commissioner Hechtman: We're just taking out just… 12 13 Chair Chang: I see. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: …the end of that first sentence. 16 17 Male: [Inaudible 332:50]. 18 19 Commissioner Hechtman: Right. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Okay. Yes. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: And let that be reflected because there's different times for public 4 comment, action items, approval of minutes. It looks like it's 3, 5, 3 right now. 5 6 Chair Chang: We could also just make it all the same. 7 8 Commissioner Hechtman: Yep. 9 10 Chair Chang: That might make our lives much easier. 11 12 Commissioner Hechtman: I'm okay with that too. 13 14 Chair Chang: I would – I think we should make it all the same because I cannot keep it straight 15 and neither can any of us clearly. Okay. So I think what I'm hearing is 5 minutes reduced down 16 to 2 across the board whether it's an agenda item or not, and groups must have 5 speakers and 17 they could get a maximum of 10 or 15. Which is it? Fifteen. We have… 18 19 Vice-Chair Akin: Take a quick straw poll if you like. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Okay. Straw poll. Let's go. Raise your hand if you like the 10. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: Sorry. I want 15 reducible to 10, so if it's a 2-minute item… 4 5 Chair Chang: Okay. At the discretion… 6 7 Commissioner Hechtman: Right. 8 9 Chair Chang: At the discretion of the Chair. All right. So I think I have a motion. I'm just going to 10 make the motion because I think I got it. So we're going to change our procedural rules so that 11 all public comments whether they are for agendized items or not, each speaker gets 5 minutes 12 reduced down to 2 minutes at the discretion of the Chair, and for groups of 5 or more they get 13 up to 15 minutes to speak reducible to 10 at the discretion of the Chair. Do I have a second? 14 15 Commissioner Summa: [Second 334:54]. 16 17 Chair Chang: Commissioner Summa… 18 19 Commissioner Summa: Second. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: …seconds. Do we have further discussion? No. Ms. Dao, I think – are we allowed 2 to take a voice vote on this one? Okay. All in favor? 3 4 Commissioner Hechtman: Aye. 5 6 Commissioner Ji: Aye. 7 8 Chair Chang: Aye. 9 10 Vice-Chair Akin: Aye. 11 12 Commissioner Summa: Aye. 13 14 Commissioner Peterson: Aye. 15 16 Chair Chang: All opposed? Any abstentions? Motion passes 6… 17 18 Jennifer Armer: Unanimously. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Unanimously. 1 2 Commissioner Hechtman: So I've got a potential follow-up motion on this same topic, and that 3 is in our agendas, it states that all requests to speak will be taken until 5 minutes after the staff 4 presentation, which I actually don't remember us doing that before you were the Chair. I think 5 it's fine and I think it's something we've picked up, although is it 5 minutes after staff 6 presentation or is it 5 minutes after the applicant? 7 8 Chair Chang: It probably should be after the applicant's presentation. And we started doing it 9 while Commissioner Summa was Chair because we had this one meeting where people kept… 10 11 Commissioner Hechtman: Right. 12 13 Chair Chang: …adding on and we would have cut the time to less than 5 minutes. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. So – and I'm fine with the process. I think it does help make 16 things more efficient, but I'm wondering if we need to actually have that stated in our rules. I 17 was actually involved in litigation once 20 years ago where somebody had written something 18 on the agenda – a procedure which didn't work out well for my client, and I looked in their rules 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. and they didn't have it. And so I was able to attack them for not having it in the rules so I could 1 go look at it. 2 3 Chair Chang: Let's do it. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. 6 7 Chair Chang: I asked staff – back when I was Vice-Chair, I asked our staff liaison at the time and 8 they said no, you can just put it on the cover. But I think that to cover our bases… 9 10 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. 11 12 Chair Chang: …let's just make it – and plus that'll make it very clear for members of the public 13 who are not looking at a packet but looking at our procedural rules. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: Right. 16 17 Chair Chang: So… 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Jennifer Armer: So is that until the end of the applicant's presentation or 5 minutes after the 1 staff presentation? What's the threshold you'd like to have? 2 3 Chair Chang: I think after the applicant's would probably be more appropriate because… 4 5 Jennifer Armer: Five minutes after the end of the applicant's presentation could be into the 6 public comment period. 7 8 Commissioner Hechtman: Right. And that's okay. 9 10 Jennifer Armer: You'll want to set the length of each public comment before you start based on 11 the number of applicants [inaudible 337:27]. 12 13 Chair Chang: We usually have clarifying questions, so… 14 15 Jennifer Armer: Up to the Commission. 16 17 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. And also you can tell by the body here and how many cards 18 have already come in that – it won't be an exact science, but… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Chang: Do we think it's okay? 1 2 Commissioner Hechtman: I do. I think 5 minutes after… 3 4 Chair Chang: After the applicant's presentation. 5 6 Commissioner Hechtman: And also you don't want to cut if off too soon. 7 8 Chair Chang: Yeah. 9 10 Commissioner Hechtman: You don't want people to feel like I didn't get my chance to be heard. 11 I didn't realize the applicant was going to stop talking then. They had 7 minutes left on their 12 clock [inaudible 337:57]. 13 14 Chair Chang: Yeah. That's fair enough. Okay. So do we have a motion for that then because we 15 need to add it to our procedural rules? 16 17 Commissioner Hechtman: [Inaudible 338:03]. 18 19 Jennifer Armer: I got what you said, so yeah. Go ahead and so move. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: So moved. 2 3 Vice-Chair Akin: Second. 4 5 Jennifer Armer: I believe – Commissioner Summa, did you have a question? 6 7 Commissioner Summa: That's okay. 8 9 Chair Chang: All right. Any discussion? Okay. All in favor? 10 11 Commissioner Hechtman: Aye. 12 13 Commissioner Ji: Aye. 14 15 Chair Chang: Aye. 16 17 Vice-Chair Akin: Aye. 18 19 Commissioner Summa: Aye. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Peterson: Aye. 2 3 Chair Chang: Opposed? None. Abstentions? Motion passes unanimously. 4 5 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 6 Public Comment is Permitted. Three (3) minutes per speaker. 7 8 5. Approval of Planning & Transportation Commission Draft Summary & Verbatim 9 Minutes of January 29, 2025 10 11 6. Approval of Planning & Transportation Commission Draft Summary & Verbatim 12 Minutes of February 12, 2025 13 14 Chair Chang: Okay. Do we have minutes that we need to approve? I think we have minutes. 15 Anybody want to make a motion? 16 17 Commissioner Hechtman: Sure. Move approval of the January 29th Summary and Verbatim 18 Minutes as revised. 19 20 Commissioner Summa: Second. 21 22 Chair Chang: I need to figure out when I wasn't here. Okay. Any discussion? All in favor? 23 24 Commissioner Hechtman: Aye. 25 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Chang: Aye. 2 3 Vice-Chair Akin: Aye. 4 5 Commissioner Summa: Aye. 6 7 Commissioner Peterson: Aye. 8 9 Chair Chang: Any opposed? Any abstentions? 10 11 Commissioner Ji: I abstain. 12 13 Chair Chang: So motion passes 6 – 5-0-1. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: Move approval of the February 12, 2025, PTC Summary and 16 Verbatim… 17 18 Chair Chang: Can you speak into the mic? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Sorry. I had it off. Move approval of the February 12, 2025, PTC 1 Summary and Verbatim Minutes as revised. 2 3 Commissioner Summa: Second. 4 5 Chair Chang: All in favor? 6 7 Commissioner Hechtman: Aye. 8 9 Vice-Chair Akin: Aye. 10 11 Commissioner Summa: Aye. 12 13 Commissioner Peterson: Aye. 14 15 Chair Chang: Opposed? And I abstain so… 16 17 Commissioner Ji: I abstain as well. 18 19 Chair Chang: So motion passes 4-0-2. Okay. Sorry. Tired. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 2 Chair Chang: Commissioner questions, comments, announcements, future meetings, and 3 agendas? Okay. We are adjourned. Thank you. 4 5 Adjournment 6 11:40 PM 7 8 /km 9