HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-02-26 Planning & Transportation Commission Verbatim Minutes_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Planning & Transportation Commission 1
Verbatim Minutes: February 26, 2025 2
Council Chambers & Virtual 3
6:00 PM 4
5
Call to Order / Roll Call 6
6:00 PM 7
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ROLL CALL 9
Chair Chang: Good evening, everyone. I'd like to call to order this regular meeting of the 10
Planning and Transportation Commission for Wednesday, February 26, 2025. So the first thing I 11
want to do is welcome our newest commissioner, Commissioner Kevin Ji, here who will be 12
joining us for a 4-year term. And with that, Ms. Dao, could you call the roll, please? 13
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Administrative Associate Veronica Dao: Chair Chang? 15
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Chair Chang: Here. 17
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Veronica Dao: Vice-Chair Akin? 19
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Vice-Chair Akin: Here. 21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 1
2
Commissioner Hechtman: Here. 3
4
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Ji? 5
6
Commissioner Ji: Here. 7
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Veronica Dao: Commissioner Peterson? 9
10
Commissioner Peterson: Here. 11
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Veronica Dao: Commissioner Summa? 13
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Commissioner Summa: Here. 15
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Veronica Dao: We have a quorum. 17
Oral Communications 18
The public may speak to any item not on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker.1,2 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Okay. So our next order of business is public comment. So this is if anybody has 1
something that they would like to say regarding an item that is not on the agenda. If you have a 2
comment for items that are on the agenda, they'll be time for that later on. Do we have any 3
speaker cards or raised hands online? 4
5
Veronica Dao: I have no requests to speak. 6
7
Chair Chang: Okay. Great. 8
9
Agenda Changes, Additions and Deletions 10
The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 11
12
Chair Chang: Next, we move on to agenda changes, additions and deletions. Anything? 13
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Assistant Director Jennifer Armer: None. 15
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Chair Chang: Great. Thank you. 17
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City Official Reports 19
1. Directors Report, Meeting Schedule and Assignments 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Okay. So then City Official Reports. I don't know if we have a Transportation 1
Report or not. 2
3
Jennifer Armer: We don't have a – anything to report from Transportation, but I can share from 4
Planning in terms of upcoming meetings. 5
6
Chair Chang: Perfect. Thank you, Ms. Armer. 7
8
Jennifer Armer: We will get the 2-page Power Point up. All right. Switch to the next sheet. And 9
so just a quick update on our upcoming Planning and Transportation Commission meetings. We 10
have 2 meetings scheduled in March. On the 12th, we anticipate bringing PHZ zoning for 660 11
University Avenue back for your review and a discussion and draft language for the El Camino 12
Real Focus Area. And then on the 26th, currently we have agendized the Parking Program 13
Update. 14
15
And a little bit of update on the meetings that we have had with Council recently, so on the 16
next slide. Earlier this week, February 24, City Council accepted your recommendation on the 17
Comprehensive Plan and Housing Element progress reports. So we can go to the next slide. 18
19
Veronica Dao: Yes. The computer just died. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: Well, verbally I can let you know that on Monday they did accept that as 2
recommended by the PTC at your November 13 meeting. That's the annual progress reports for 3
the Comprehensive Plan and Housing Element. And then upcoming on March 3, this coming 4
Monday, we do anticipate a discussion of the HIP/AHIP zoning regulations, municipal code 5
amendments as recommended by the Planning and Transportation Commission on December 6
17 of last year. That concludes my report, but if you have any questions, I am available. 7
8
Chair Chang: I don't have questions but just wanted to let the Commission know that now that 9
we have a full cohort of commissioners, I'm going to be working with Ms. Dao to update our 10
Council liaison assignments. So if there is a particular month or timing that you know that 11
doesn't work well for you, please let me know. I'm going to do that in time for the next packet. 12
13
Action Item 14
Public Comment is Permitted. Applicants/Appellant Teams: Fifteen (15) minutes, plus three (3) minutes rebuttal. 15
All others: Five (5) minutes per speaker. 16
17
2. PUBLIC HEARING / QUASI-JUDICIAL. 4335 and 4345 El Camino Real [24PLN-00153]: 18
Recommendation on Applicant’s Request for Approval of a Vesting Tentative Map to 19
Allow for a Condominium Subdivision to Create Eight Units on a 17,406 Square Foot 20
Parcel and to Create 21 Units on a 41,370 Square Foot Parcel. The Subdivision map 21
Would Facilitate Construction of 29 New Residential Units in Five Buildings 22
(24PLN-00152). CEQA Status: Exempt from the Provisions of the California 23
Environmental Quality Act in Accordance with CEQA Guidelines Section 15332 (In-fill 24
Development). Zoning District: CS (Service Commercial). For More Information 25
Contact the Project Planner Emily Kallas at Emily.Kallas@CityofPaloAlto.org. 26
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Okay. So then we're on to our first action item. This is the public hearing that's 1
quasi-judicial for 4335 and 4345 El Camino Real. It's a recommendation on applicant's request 2
for approval of a vesting tentative map to allow for a condominium subdivision to create 8 units 3
on a 17,406 square foot parcel and 21 units on a 41,370 square foot parcel. So do we have a – 4
first we should do the disclosures for this. So why don't we start with Commissioner Hechtman 5
and then we'll just go on down the line to see if we have any disclosures regarding this project. 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: No disclosures. 8
9
Commissioner Ji: I'd like to disclose that I had a site visit with Commissioner Summa earlier this 10
week. 11
12
Chair Chang: No disclosures. 13
14
Vice-Chair Akin: No disclosures. 15
16
Commissioner Summa: Ditto on Commissioner Ji. 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: No disclosure. 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Thank you, everyone. Do we have a staff report for this? Great. Thank you, Ms. 1
Kallas. 2
3
Senior Planner Emily Kallas: I'll go up ahead and pull up the Power Point now. Okay. Good 4
evening. My name is Emily Kallas, and I am the Project Planner for 4345 through 4445 El 5
Camino Real. This is the vesting tentative map for this project. The project request is for 2 6
single-lot subdivisions to create 8 condominium units on the existing 17,400 square foot parcel 7
at 4335 El Camino Real, which is on the left side of the image shown on this slide, and 21 condo 8
units at the 41,370 square foot parcel at 4345 El Camino Real, which is the one on the right, for 9
a total of 29 condominium units. The existing parcels are code compliant as they are existing 10
because the CS (Commercial Service) zoning district does not have a minimum lot size or 11
minimum dimension requirements, and the proposed parcels are also in conformance with this. 12
The condominium subdivision requires private streets per PAMC Title 21 requirements 13
regarding the number of units proposed, and the private streets proposed meet the minimum 14
street width, 26 feet paved within a 32-foot wide access easement. 15
16
These are the vesting tentative map findings for reference. The explanation of how these meet 17
these findings is in the staff report. One item to note is that all of these findings are made in the 18
negative. So for example, the first one is the proposed map is not consistent with the applicable 19
general and specific plans. Of course, it is consistent and it is required to be consistent. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
This project is exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act in accordance with 2
Guideline 15332, otherwise known as a Class 32 exemption for infill development. And the staff 3
recommends that the PTC recommend approval of the tentative map to City Council based on 4
the findings and subject to conditions of approval. The applicants are also present to answer 5
any questions. Thank you. 6
7
Chair Chang: Is there is an applicant presentation? 8
9
Emily Kallas: Yes. 10
11
Chair Chang: Okay. Please come on up and state your name. 12
13
Austin Lin: Austin Lin. Yeah. Okay. 14
15
Chair Chang: [Inaudible 8:12] waiting for a presentation, right? 16
17
Male: No slides. 18
19
Austin Lin: No slides. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: No slides. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead and, yeah, introduce yourself. You already said 2
that you're Austin Lin. Mr. Lin. 3
4
Austin Lin: Okay. Good evening, Chair and Commissioners. I'm Austin Lin, Development 5
Manager for SummerHill Homes. For those of you who aren't familiar with SummerHill, we're a 6
local residential developer based in San Ramon. Since 1976, we've built more than 7,000 homes 7
in the Bay area. We pride ourselves on the quality of our homes and the communities that we 8
build. Before I begin, I'd like to say thank you to our Project Planner, Emily Kallas, and to 9
Planning Manager, Claire Raybould, for the work they've put into reviewing our project. Emily 10
and Claire have been excellent to work with, and we thank them very much for their 11
responsiveness and professionalism. As explained in the staff report, SummerHill is proposing 12
to develop 29 new townhome-style condominiums on a 1.35 acre site at 4335 and 4345 El 13
Camino. The project will comply with the City's Affordable Housing Ordinance by providing 4 14
homes on site for moderate-income families plus a fractional in-lieu fee. The project will also 15
comply with the City's Energy Reach Code. The project will be all electric. Every building will 16
have a solar energy system, and every garage will be wired for a level 2 EV charger. 17
18
As explained in the staff report, the project was reviewed through the City's Streamlined 19
Housing Development Review Process, which means that the architecture and the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
improvements have already been approved. Tonight's hearing is specifically about the vesting 1
tentative map and the draft findings in Attachment B of the staff report. As explained in 2
Attachment B, the tentative map satisfies all the required findings, the site is suitable for the 3
project, and the map is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan, the Housing Element, and the 4
Zoning Code. For the reasons outlined in the staff report, we respectfully request your 5
recommendation of approval tonight for the proposed tentative map. With me here this 6
evening are John Hickey, Vice President of Development for the project, Kevin Ebrahimi, our 7
Senior VP of Development, and [Ryan Hanson 10:25], the civil engineer for the project. Thank 8
you for your consideration, and we'd be happy to answer your questions. 9
10
Chair Chang: That's it? Okay. So before we ask for broader Commission clarifying questions, Ms. 11
Kallas, I wanted to ask if you could show that map as to what the parcel actually is because the 12
map on Packet Page 16 is a little bit inaccurate. And so it just might be helpful for members of 13
the public, especially regarding the public comments that we received about a connecting bike 14
path, could see what the parcels actually look like. 15
16
Emily Kallas: Yes. In the – In our City GIS software, it identif-, it highlights this remainder parcel. 17
It's not a remainder parcel. It is a part of the PC subdivision that was done when the condos 18
that are across Cesano Court were built, and so the subject parcels are Parcel 1 and Parcel 3 as 19
shown here and do not include Parcel 1B and 1A. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Whe-, sorry. So which one's 1B and which one's 1A? 2
3
Emily Kallas: This one – the one on the left and slightly lower is 1A, and the one at the top is 1B. 4
5
Chair Chang: Okay. So I just wanted to note for members of the public that if you are looking at 6
the Packet on Packet Page 16, there is a location map for the 2 parcels and it shows Parcels 1A 7
and 1B as being part of Parcel 3, and it is not. And I wanted to highlight this because we 8
received a couple public comments asking about making a bike lane connection through Parcel 9
1B, and because it is not part of this project's parcels, that's not a decision that we can make 10
with respect to this project. Okay. So are there other clarifying questions for the Commission 11
before we go to public comment? Commissioner Hechtman? 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. Just one. So what's in front of us tonight is a vesting 14
tentative map. What's not in front of us is the Streamlined Housing Development Review 15
Approval, which is a separate process, and I was wondering if staff could just illuminate us a 16
little bit on sort of where that line is so that we stay in our lane tonight. 17
18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Emily Kallas: The Streamlined Housing Approval covers the architectural review effectively of 1
the units and the – there are separate findings that that application was required to make. And 2
so this evening, the PTC is exclusively looking at the findings for the vesting tentative map. 3
4
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. 5
6
Chair Chang: Any other – yep. We have one from Vice-Chair Akin. 7
8
Vice-Chair Akin: Thank you, Chair. Just following up for the benefit of the other commissioners 9
on the questions we talked about at the premeeting. Did we ever find Condition of Approval 10
#4? 11
12
Emily Kallas: It is a typo for those to be misnumbered. It goes from 3A through L and then the 13
next one was numbered 5, but it is Condition #4 and that has been corrected for when this goes 14
to City Council. 15
16
Vice-Chair Akin: [Inaudible 14:11]. 17
18
Jennifer Armer: So there is no missing Condition of Approval, but we can refer to them as 19
numbered in the Packet if there is any discussion or questions about them. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice-Chair Akin: Good. That's the resolution I think we all expected, but it's nice to have it 2
confirmed. And I had asked about the daily trip count increase. Did you resolve the difference 3
there and what's the outcome? 4
5
Emily Kallas: The categorical exemption includes an analysis of the trips that are anticipated for 6
this project. The total net new daily trips is 76 new trips. However, the peak hour number of 7
trips is much lower numbers; it's between -1 to +5 depending on kind of how you break it 8
down. 9
10
Vice-Chair Akin: Okay. Thank you. That's all for me. 11
12
Chair Chang: Commissioner Peterson? 13
14
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. Just a quick question. Because I'm new, I think I can 15
probably ask a couple of the newb questions here. Is – so the lot 1B that's adjacent, what's the 16
– I mean, I understand that's – we can't work on that one. But just out of curiosity, what's the 17
rule that – is it not owned by the same… 18
19
Commissioner Summa: No. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Peterson: …owner? Okay. Is it in a City lot? 2
3
Commissioner Summa: No. It's part of 440 Cesano. I don't know how to say it. So it's – it 4
actually belongs – and I'm assuming that that's because when that property was developed, 5
which is also a PC, there was a – that's when that street was made that cut through their 6
property. So they have these 2 little sections that are on the other side of the street. 7
8
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. Appreciate it. 9
10
Chair Chang: All right. Seeing no further clarifying questions, we'll move to public comment. 11
12
PUBLIC COMMENTS 13
Chair Chang: Ms. Dao, are there any speaker cards or raised hands? 14
15
Veronica Dao: Not for this item. 16
17
Chair Chang: Okay. That makes it easy. So then on – back to the Commission. Go ahead. 18
19
Male: [Inaudible 16:25] do you have any questions for us? 20
21
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Yeah. No, I don't think we do. So… 1
2
Commissioner Hechtman: [Inaudible 16:28]. 3
4
Chair Chang: We do have a question it turns out. Commis-, Commissioner Hechtman? 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. Thank you. I just wanted to see if there was any public 7
comment first. So the – it appears that had SummerHill been of the mind to – and incidentally 8
it's your project that is rising on West Bayshore? 9
10
Male: Yes, it is as a matter of fact. 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's terrific. It's looking great. 13
14
Male: Thank you. We do too. 15
16
Commissioner Hechtman: I remember when it was before us, and I'm happy to have you back 17
in town to propose another one of your products because, in my experience, SummerHill does 18
great work. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Male: Thank you very much. 1
2
Commissioner Hechtman: So, glad to have you back before us. This particular site, it looked like 3
the land use designations would allow as many as 43 units. You've settled on 29, and I just was 4
curious to hear your thoughts about how you arrived at your configuration instead of a greater 5
density. 6
7
John Hickey: Yeah. That's a great question. So I'm John Hickey. I'm VP of Development for 8
SummerHill. That's really – because when – in order to go denser than the 29 units that we're 9
proposing, it's – you really need to go a totally different product type. You're essentially talking 10
about stacked condominiums, which are much more expensive to build and they also have a 11
number of other issues in terms of being able to get financing for them. So that simply wasn't 12
feasible for us. And the other thing I would mention too – and I think you're going to see this 13
already with the project that you mentioned on West Bayshore – it's a very, very popular type 14
of housing for – especially for buyers who wouldn't be able to buy a single-family detached 15
home in Palo Alto but want 3 bedrooms or 4 bedrooms and to live like it's a little bit more like 16
their own home. And so it's – as I say, it's a very attractive type of housing and we really get a 17
great response from the buyers. 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you for that. And I did have another question for staff. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Go ahead. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. So the BMRs that are proposed, 4 of them plus a fractional in-4
lieu fee, what is the affordability level for those? I'm sorry if I missed it in your oral report. 5
6
Emily Kallas: Yes. I don't have that information off the top of my head, so I will look that up right 7
now. 8
9
John Hickey: I actually am able to answer that if you'd like. 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: Please. 12
13
John Hickey: It's – they're moderate income, so it's a mix of between 80 to 100 percent of AMI 14
and then 100 to 120 percent of AMI. 15
16
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. So if that's – once staff concurs with that, then I think 17
that is something that gets cleaned up in the – on Packet Page 18 in the Record of Land Use 18
Action, which has different figures. So if you just clean that up moving forward to the Council. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Emily Kallas: Noted. Thank you. 1
2
Commissioner Hechtman: I'm kind of going in the weeds here a little bit, but I do have a 3
technical question for Mr. Yang if he's available. Good evening, Mr. Yang. 4
5
Albert Yang: [Inaudible 19:49]. 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: So looking at the Record of Land Use Approval, I'm just curious about 8
different language about final map expiration. So if we look in Condition #7, which is now really 9
6, it says the T Map is 2 years and you can have a 1-year extension. When we go down to 10
Section 7, which is on Packet Page 23, it also says, I think, that the T Map is for 2 years, but then 11
it says there can be extensions to the maximum limit set forth in the Subdivision Map Act. So is 12
the Map Act maximum extension 1 year or is there a possible inconsistency between these 2 13
provisions that you might need to clean up? 14
15
Albert Yang: Yeah. That's an inconsistency. The Map Act does allow for greater extensions and 16
[inaudible 20:51] get rid of that duplicate condition earlier on. 17
18
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Thank you. One more question for Ms. Kallas. There wasn't 19
really – in the staff report, which I thought was very good, there wasn't really a reference to any 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
open space requirements. Is that something we need to be concerned about? Is that perhaps 1
part of the process that we're not dealing with? 2
3
Emily Kallas: Yes. The open space was reviewed as a part of the Streamlined Housing Review. It 4
is – I would need to check. There were waivers associated with this project, but I don't recall if 5
open space was one of them. There is common open space provided on both Parcel 1 and 6
Parcel 3 for the use of the residents. 7
8
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Thank you. That's it for now, Chair. 9
10
Chair Chang: Okay. So yes, would other – do other commissioners have questions or comments 11
about the project? Please light it up. Commissioner Summa. 12
13
Commissioner Summa: [Hi 22:02]. Thank you for the report and thank you for your 14
presentation. And I have just one question. I'm – I know that all the trees associated with this 15
property are going to be removed and many will be replanted. But there's one – and by and 16
large, they're not the biggest trees, but there is one very big cedar tree that is not – it's Tree 16. 17
And to staff, I could not find an arborist's report to see if it – if there was any health reason or 18
safety reason this tree was going to be removed. Tree 16 is the big, big, big cedar tree that's – 19
and it's kind of on the edge… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Would it be possible to pull it up so that we can see on the map where it is? That 2
m-, it might help Commissioner Summa. 3
4
Commissioner Summa: So [inaudible 22:52]. Anyway, I'm just possible – I'm just wondering if 5
it's possible to save that tree as it is in the roadway since it is such a grand, huge tree. 6
7
John Hickey: The simple fact is – well, first of all, that was already addressed in the Streamlined 8
Review. But I will tell you that no, because of the location, you wouldn't be able to get fire 9
access. 10
11
Commissioner Summa: Okay. So it blocks fire access? 12
13
John Hickey: Yeah. 14
15
Commissioner Summa: Okay. Is there any possibility of – there's one tree – I forget what 16
number it is, but it's the largest camphor tree and it's in the – I'll say for simplicity – the 17
southwest corner. That would be the – that tree actually has a larger canopy but a smaller 18
diameter. Is – if there's any chance of saving that tree because we – it's really great that you're 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
replant-, placing all the trees and planting so many, but they'll be very small compared to 1
what's there. But if it's – if it impedes access for turning radius, I understand that. 2
3
John Hickey: Yeah. And, again, I will let staff speak to this, but as she mentioned earlier, all of 4
those issues were addressed in the Streamlined Environmental Review… 5
6
Commissioner Summa: Okay. 7
8
John Hickey: …so that's not – my understanding is it's not part of this evening's conversation, 9
but… 10
11
Commissioner Summa: No, no. I understand that it's not. I just didn't – since I couldn't find an 12
arborist's report, I didn't know if there was any possibility of, with a slight rethink, saving that 13
one big tree. 14
15
John Hickey: No. Unfortunately, these sites, they're so complicated because of the utilities, 16
because of the grading, because of the roadways, because of the homes, that even though it 17
might look on a 2D piece of paper like it's feasible, we went through and we realized that there 18
wasn't going to be able – we weren't going to be able to save any of these trees on site. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Summa: Okay. Thank you very much. 1
2
John Hickey: But I appreciate the question. 3
4
Commissioner Summa: Okay. Thank you so much. 5
6
Chair Chang: Other commissioner comments or questions? Then I think we could take a motion. 7
Yeah. 8
9
Vice-Chair Akin: [Inaudible 25:00]. 10
11
Chair Chang: No, I think – that's Commissioner Hechtman's light, right? Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. If there are no further Commission comments, then I would 14
move the staff recommendation with the modifications to the Record of Land Use Approval 15
noted during our discussion with staff. 16
17
Commissioner Summa: I'll second that. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Would we like to discuss the motion at all? The fastest motion ever. Okay. So I 1
don't see – I do see a light from Commissioner Peterson. 2
3
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. So I'd like to ask about the AMI. For this structure, it's set 4
at 80 percent, and I'm just curious why we're at 80 percent. And the reason why I raise the 5
question is I think it's appropriate the City staff is voting right now around the corner for their 6
new contract. And so the way I understand it is that a large percentage of City staff wouldn't be 7
able to afford an 80 percent AMI apartment. And so I just wanted to raise that question 8
because I actually don't know if we have a large stock of sub-80 percent or if this is adding to 80 9
percent. And so I just wanted to raise that issue and just give it some time. 10
11
Jennifer Armer: Thank you for that question. I'll go ahead and jump in. This isn't really 12
something that's applicable to the application that's before you right now. So I'll recommend 13
that we kind of table further discussion of those details to another time. I have been speaking 14
with the Chair about having a time – a retreat for the opportunity for the Planning and 15
Transportation Commission to get together to discuss some different items. Some of the new 16
rules in regards to housing is one of the potential discussion items there. And so it may be that 17
that's a more appropriate time for us to discuss and share information with you. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: So that's a good point. So I did ask around a little bit beforehand on 1
that, and yeah, I have heard that sometimes there's tiered AMIs and things like that. So what's 2
the reason why on this one it's not appropriate to raise the question and defer discussion? 3
4
Jennifer Armer: The affordability level of the units is not being determined as part of this 5
tentative map application. 6
7
Commissioner Peterson: Okay. [Inaudible 27:35]. 8
9
Emily Kallas: More specifically, the affordability levels are set by the State Density Bonus Law, 10
which is what this project is streamlined under. 11
12
Commissioner Peterson: Fantastic. Is that in the Packet? 13
14
Emily Kallas: The Streamlined Housing Application Process applies to housing projects that are 15
utilizing State Density Bonus Law. And it should say that in the report, but I don't… 16
17
Jennifer Armer: Yeah. But… 18
19
Commissioner Peterson: [Inaudible 28:02]. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: But also that would have been part of the reports as part of the review for the 2
buildings… 3
4
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. 5
6
Jennifer Armer: …themselves rather than the subdivision. 7
8
Commissioner Peterson: But it's enough [inaudible 28:09] just that I raised the question. It's on 9
the record, so if Council sees it, they can know. Thank you. 10
11
Jennifer Armer: Yes. The minutes will be provided. 12
13
Chair Chang: Thank you. 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: And Chair, before we vote, I just want to clarify for the record that 16
this project, the affordability rate isn't all 80 percent or below. It's as stated at Packet Page 10, 17
in the range of 80 to 120 percent. So I just didn't want – we're about to vote on this, everybody, 18
and so I wanted to make sure that all of the – and I think staff has explained that piece isn't 19
really for us but it's included in the staff report and so I just wanted, as this goes forward – and I 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
think actually the applicant also clarified somewhat in their responses to one of my questions. 1
But that's the project that is passing through, and we've got the vested tentative map part of 2
that tonight. 3
4
Chair Chang: Correct. Thank you for that clarification because there's multiple steps in the 5
process and so there's a different step that got streamline reviewed through staff approval. And 6
now because of the way our ordinances are written, vesting tentative maps need to receive the 7
recommendation for approval from the PTC and so that's why we're doing kind of this small 8
piece of it. And again, for clarification, Ms. Kallas, I think you wanted – you were going to 9
confirm if it was 80 to 100 and 100 to 120, correct? 10
11
Emily Kallas: Yes. That's correct. It's 80 to 120. 12
13
Chair Chang: Eighty to – so it's not 2 tiers? It's 80 to 120 one… 14
15
Albert Yang: So it should be 2 tiers. Two-thirds of the units are – have a max of 100 percent AMI 16
and one-third of the units at 120. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Yang. I hope that answers your question, 1
Commissioner Hechtman? Great. So does anybody else want to discuss this motion further or 2
are we ready to take a vote? I don't see lights. So Ms. Dao, could you go ahead and take a vote? 3
4
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Summa? 5
6
Commissioner Summa: Yes. 7
8
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Peterson? 9
10
Commissioner Peterson: Aye. 11
12
Veronica Dao: Vice-Chair Akin? 13
14
Vice-Chair Akin: Yes. 15
16
Veronica Dao: Chair Chang? 17
18
Chair Chang: Yes. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Ji? 1
2
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 3
4
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 7
8
Veronica Dao: Motion carries 6-0. 9
10
Chair Chang: Great. All right. Thank you. So that concludes this item, and we'll move on to the 11
next item. 12
13
3. PUBLIC HEARING/QUASI-JUDICIAL: 70 Encina Avenue [24PLN-00095]: 14
Recommendation on Applicant’s Request to Rezone the Subject Property and an 15
Adjacent Vacant Parcel to Planned Community/Planned Home Zoning, to Demolish a 16
Surface Parking lot, and to Construct a New Three-Story, 19,035 Square Foot 17
Building with 10 Residential Condominium Units. CEQA Status: Streamlined Review 18
in Accordance with CEQA Guidelines Section 15183 (Comprehensive Plan 19
Consistency). Zone District: CC (Community Commercial). For More Information 20
Please Contact the Project Planner, Emily Kallas, at Emily.Kallas@Cityofpaloalto.org. 21
22
Chair Chang: So our next item – action item is also a quasi-judicial item. It's for 70 Encina 23
Avenue, and it's a recommendation on the applicant's request to rezone the subject property 24
and an adjacent vacant parcel to a planned community zone, to demolish a surface parking lot, 25
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and to construct a new 3-story, 19,035 square foot building with 10 residential condo units. So 1
again, I need to ask for disclosures, and we'll just start with Commissioner Hechtman again. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: I've driven by this site many times, most recently probably in the last 4
week. I haven't met or spoken with anyone about it since before our last meeting on this 5
matter. 6
7
Commissioner Ji: I'd like to disclose that I met with the architect and the developer and also 8
have been to the site numerous times probably in the last week as well. 9
10
Chair Chang: No disclosures. 11
12
Vice-Chair Akin: No disclosures. 13
14
Commissioner Summa: No disclosures. 15
16
Commissioner Peterson: I walk by the site probably every other week or every week, but that's 17
all. Thank you. 18
19
Chair Chang: Great. Thank you. Ms. Kallas, do you have a staff report for us? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Emily Kallas: Yes. This is the staff presentation for the 70 Encina Avenue Planned Home Zoning 2
PHZ project. This is a Planned Home Zoning or Planned Community Process project, which 3
means it has gone through several hearings before tonight that began with a City Council 4
prescreening in September 2022. The project that was presented at that time was substantially 5
different than the one that is – that was formerly submitted under the PHZ Process and so 6
there was a preliminary Architectural Review Board in December of 2023 to get some initial 7
feedback before submitting their formal application in March of last year. The PTC previously 8
reviewed the 10-unit development on September of 2024, followed by Architectural Review 9
hearings in November and February. The ARB recommended approval, and now it is before the 10
PTC for a recommendation before the next step, which would be City Council. 11
12
This map shows the proposed location of the project. It is on 2 properties that are separately 13
owned from the rest of the Town & Country Shopping Center. It is also not included in the 14
required parking for the Town & Country Shopping Center at this time. The other nearby 15
amenities in the neighborhood include the Palo Alto Medical Foundation and other offices. The 16
Opportunity Center is also on Encina, and this site is within half a mile of the Palo Alto Caltrain 17
Station and near the access gate to the bike path. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
The proposed project includes 10 condominium units with garages in a 3-story building 1
organized around a central driveway. Two of these units will be affordable provided at below-2
market rates to 80 to 100 percent AMI. As a Planned Home Zoning Project, it is asking for 3
different development standards than would normally be required in the CC-2 zoning district. 4
So this includes 1.57 FAR where 1.25 is allowed. I did want to note that the prior PTC report and 5
other reports had the FAR as 1.8. The design did not change; however, it came to our attention 6
that the garages were being included in the FAR. And per the zoning code, garages are not 7
included in the FAR. Fifty-eight percent lot coverage where 50 percent is required. A 0-foot rear 8
setback where 10 feet is normally required for residential uses. The usable open space provided 9
varies between 79 square feet and 155 square feet. This is for second-floor deck areas that face 10
the central courtyard. The normal requirement for multifamily use is 150 square feet per unit. 11
And no minimal ground-level landscaping is provided where 30 percent is required. There are 12
perimeter planters, but these do not meet the minimum dimensions for open space. 13
14
This is an overview of the site plan and upper floors. It's a total of 3 stories. Again, the 10 units 15
are arranged around the central driveway that provides the access to the garages. This shows 16
the front elevation which faces Encina and the rear elevation which faces the Town & Country 17
Shopping Center. And these are the 2 side elevations with the upper one facing the driveway – 18
the shopping center parking lot driveway entrance and then the lower one facing towards the 19
other side of the parking lot. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Key considerations for the PTC this evening include the application's consistency with the 2
findings, comprehensive plan, and zoning code, which is summarized in the staff report and 3
attachments; the site development regulations being proposed which defer from the standard 4
requirements; the public benefit and affordable units provided; and the relationship between 5
the Town & Country Shopping Center and this development. This project was streamlined 6
under CEQA Guideline 15183 which is consistency with the Community Plan, in this case the 7
Comprehensive Plan EIR. And therefore, the mitigation measures from the Comprehensive Plan 8
EIR are applicable to this project. We've received a number of public comments. Ellis Partners, 9
the operators of the Town & Country Shopping Center, have been very involved throughout the 10
process. Most recently, their public comment letter included advocating for a more 11
collaborative approach to housing in this area, and we've also received other letters of support. 12
So the staff recommends that the Planning Commission recommend approval of the project to 13
the City Council based on the findings and subject to Conditions of Approval. This concludes my 14
presentation, and the applicants also have a presentation. Thank you. 15
16
Chair Chang: Thank you. If I could ask the applicants to come up and introduce themselves. 17
You'll have 15 minutes for your presentation. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jeffrey Galbraith: Good evening, Commissioners. My name's Jeffrey Galbraith. I'm a Principal at 1
Hayes Group Architects and excited to be back in front of you again and to follow up on this 2
project. So I appreciate the opportunity to talk again tonight. So as Emily just gave us the 3
overview generally of the project, I wanted to take you through a little bit more detail up ahead 4
on the presentation here. I have to do this 2 handed. So as she mentioned, we were before you 5
back in September of last year. And since then, we've been back to the ARB twice and obtained 6
approval to move forward, and we're excited to be back here again. 7
8
So I thought I'd start just by reviewing some of the key comments we heard from you last in 9
September. And so the 4 most salient points were first pretty much universal opposition to the 10
bulb-outs we had suggested in the street last time around as a way to provide additional space 11
for electrical service to the project as well as some [inaudible 39:46] street trees. The second 12
concern was about the front entry gate and more so just vehicular circulation in and out of the 13
courtyard and particularly the units up front. There was also interest in seeing a vision of what 14
this development might become a part of in the future as it would be the first residential 15
development on the south side of Encina Avenue. And fourth, it would be nice to see additional 16
landscaping to soften the project exterior. 17
18
So you can see here the plan on the left is what you saw back in September and on the right is 19
what we're proposing now, pretty much the identical unit plans and project layout. Really the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
difference is what you see in the public right-of-way outside of the sidewalk. So before in the 1
top image you can see there the bulb-outs, and in the bottom is now the proposed plans which 2
return that street edge to its current condition which is parallel street parking along both sides 3
of Encina Avenue. And we were able to get back to this through a lot of extensive collaboration 4
and cooperation with the Electrical Utilities Department, who were great in helping us come to 5
the conclusion with our engineers that now that we're a smaller project, 10 units, the amount 6
of power we need can be serviced by new pole-mounted transformers and we don't need one 7
of the big, large, in-your-face, street-level transformers. We were thrilled about that. 8
9
The next couple of slides show you studies from our civil engineer, BKF, [who's had 41:11] their 10
team [inaudible 41:12] looking at, okay, do we have issues getting in and out of these garages. 11
And so we had them do both an ingress and an egress analysis for both. In both cases, there's a 12
little bit of 2-pointed – or more in some cases – adjustment but nothing beyond what you'd 13
take usually getting in and out of a parking lot. And so this is the ingress and egress for the 14
upper left unit, similar for the upper right. Each has its own path to get in and out. And then, 15
again, the units that are in the rear. We came away from this feeling like there is definitely 16
enough room there to get in and out and they should be able to navigate the space. 17
18
The third question was about development all along Encina, what it might become a part of. 19
This is just a rough diagram showing you everything highlighted in blue, of course, is the full 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
extent of the parking section that's along Encina, and the square that's in the middle is our 1
parcel – our parcels that would be merged. We don't have a – it's not in our purview – our 2
ability to design. We would love to design the whole thing back there, but what you can see 3
here is that our parcels make up less than 20 percent of the total available area. And in the 4
recent ARB hearing as we've heard from Ellis Partners about their interest in building, which we 5
are thrilled about, there's a lot of space left there for them to develop projects that are 2 and 3 6
times the size of what we're doing. So we're thrilled to know that we might get more housing 7
there sooner than we otherwise thought. 8
9
The last comment was about landscape, and maybe the best way to go through that is just a 10
brief – sort of combining that with some of the other ARB comments that we heard since we 11
came before you. And those can be summarized pretty well just in these 2 images. Again, up 12
top is what you saw in September, and down below is the current proposal. A couple of key 13
things should jump out. One is that at the ground level the fences that used to be shown on the 14
lot lines are gone. And so we've eliminated both the fence and the small trellis members that 15
were on top of the frame elements. And it's small but it actually does a lot to help the visual 16
engagement of the project and the surroundings. It also makes the landscape, the green walls 17
along the side of the building a lot more visible to be appreciated by passerbys. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Another change is the units in the rear used to have sort of a reverse-flow butterfly back 1
towards Town & Country presenting a taller facade. Those have been brought down to a flat 2
roof to bring the scale down a little bit and just kind of soften the expression there. And 3
another comment that we heard at our first formal ARB hearing was just interest in really 4
understanding what the project feels like and looks like from inside of Town & County. If you're 5
sitting there having a coffee at a coffee shop, how does this – the building really feel? Would it 6
– will it overpower? Will it be too big, too tall? What will its character be like? And so we 7
developed the rendering on the bottom. You can see the photo as the current situation exists, 8
you're looking over the top of a 1-story portion of Town & Country, and on the bottom image 9
where we're rendered in, you can see our project there. And we came away from this exercise, 10
as did the ARB, feeling like the scale of the project is very appropriate to the area, to Town & 11
Country. It's material palette and expression does not try to mimic Town & Country in any way 12
as it's a different use and a different operation, but the materials palette and the general 13
rhythm are compatible with Town & Country, which we care deeply about. 14
15
Moving up to the second and third floors, these are the plans. Again, really haven't changed in 16
any appreciable way. I think the only thing we've adjusted since you saw it last was maybe 17
shifting of some windows to try and minimize the amount of visibility that can occur across that 18
central courtyard between bedrooms. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
And I will wrap up just taking you on a quick tour around the project. So this is the west corner 1
seen from across the street of Encina, sort of the main approach towards the main entry. This is 2
the side yards. Now with the fences eliminated, there's a lot more visual access into what's 3
going on there, sort of spatial engagement of the building with the surrounding. And with the 4
trellis items eliminated, there's a lot more sunlight that'll fall on the green walls there. This is 5
moving around to the – I guess it's the north – the east corner looking at it from the surface 6
alley at the back side of Town & Country there on the left, coming around to the north corner 7
again on the other side of Encina, and then moving towards the entry into the central courtyard 8
and a couple of views from within that courtyard space, the materials palette, and back around 9
to the front. 10
11
So again, we're thrilled to be back. We're excited to see the project move forward, hopefully 12
moving into approvals from the City Council and construction drawings and getting shovels in 13
the ground sooner than later. Happy to hear your commentary and answer any questions that 14
you have. Thank you. 15
16
Chair Chang: Thank you. Commissioners, before we go to public comment and – well, before we 17
go to public comment and rebuttal, do you have any clarifying questions? Go ahead, 18
Commissioner Ji. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Ji: Hello. I just wanted to clarify – I don't know if I'm supposed to – can I ask 1
[inaudible 47:07] question to staff as well or [inaudible 47:08]. 2
3
Chair Chang: Yes. 4
5
Commissioner Ji: Okay. So in – on Packet Page 35 at the bottom, I see that the rear setback is 7 6
inches, but on your slide, Ms. Kallas, you had mentioned that the setback is 0 inches. I just 7
wanted to clarify that. 8
9
Emily Kallas: It's 7 inches. I just rounded. 10
11
Commissioner Ji: Okay. Cool. Thank you. Yeah. That was my main question. Thank you. 12
13
Chair Chang: Anybody else? Okay. Mist – Commissioner Peterson? 14
15
Commissioner Peterson: Quick question on this one here. Just a [inaudible 47:43] is on this one 16
here for questions relating to walkability to and from the site, are we constrained to just within 17
the property lines? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: Thank you for that question. The applicant does not have control beyond their 1
property lines and any roadway improvements or sidewalk improvements that are required by 2
our Public Works Department. So requiring any improvements beyond that generally doesn't 3
have a nexus for requirement as part of the development. 4
5
Commissioner Peterson: Nexus. That's the question. Quick question on the n-, on that is – so I 6
saw the mitigation on the Comprehensive Plan for the EIR and I'm not familiar with that one 7
enough. But that's what I was wondering – if that EIR, if the mitigations that are applicable, if 8
any of that includes walkability. 9
10
Jennifer Armer: Thank you for that question. I can start. There are broader policies and 11
implementation programs that definitely touch on walkability in the Comprehensive Plan. Many 12
of those are actions that the City is going to do, for example, the Bike and Pedestrian Master 13
Plan that is being updated and coming to you as part of the next item. And so then, there are, 14
as I said, sometimes improvements locally that are part of it. For a development of this size, 15
there wouldn't be any mitigation measures going beyond the site in the immediate vicinity. 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: Is it helpful to note, because it's within this discussion, any walkability 18
issues from here that then [inaudible 49:26] on the record for later on for discussion? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jennifer Armer: That would be helpful. Yeah. Go ahead. 1
2
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. 3
4
Chair Chang: Commissioner Ji again. 5
6
Commissioner Ji: Sorry. I forgot this question from earlier. Both in the Packet as well as my 7
recollection from the meeting on November s-, whichever meeting the last that came to PTC, 8
Commissioner Reckdahl asked about green space. Can you help me understand if there's been 9
any green space additions between the last time it came before here? 10
11
Jeffrey Galbraith: There have not been any green space additions. The plan has remained as it 12
is. One of the things to understand about the open space requirement is that it specifically 13
precludes the use of space that is also used as a driveway to call that open space. And so we 14
have with this kind of project a scenario where we have this courtyard in the middle, which 15
we're doing a lot to make it a usable, beautiful space that functions for multiple things, but 16
technically we can't count it towards open space. 17
18
Commissioner Ji: All right. Thank you. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jeffrey Galbraith: [Yeah 50:27]. 1
2
Chair Chang: Okay. Seeing no other lights, I have 2 quick questions. So I know that there were 3
public comment concerns as well as past Commission concerns around queuing. So nothing has 4
changed for that other than the study that you m-, d-, that you showed us, correct? 5
6
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. Now one thing that you could see – and this may be helpful a little bit 7
to help alleviate that is – and keeping in mind that it's a 10-unit project, queuing is generally not 8
going to be like you would have coming into a shopping center at opening time or so forth. But 9
in the current situation even where it's street parking, there's about 8 or 10 feet along the curb 10
which sort of belongs to the parallel parking zone. That in and of itself with – you can see it in 11
the diagram below, a car sort of turning in and it's about halfway in, it's able to get out of the 12
way of ongoing traffic that might want to pass. So queuing isn't something we're concerned 13
about given the scale of the project. 14
15
Chair Chang: Okay. I just know that it's a pretty busy street with PAMF and all that there. The 16
other question that came up I think here as well as in public comment was about noise and the 17
current commercial and restaurant uses that are, I guess, on the back side of the property, and 18
there were questions about sound walls or what can be done. Could you talk to us about what 19
you're doing to minimize those impacts on the residents? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah, absolutely. So the California code that we have to design buildings to 2
requires that we limit noise levels inside of spaces to a certain number of decibels, and it's a 3
different number for an office space than it is for a residential unit. And so for any project like 4
this like many of those that we've done in downtown Palo Alto, Menlo Park, one of the first 5
things that has to happen as we move into building permit phase is that we hire an acoustical 6
engineer to go out and take measurements on site. So they'll actually leave sound recording 7
devices on site to figure out not only how loud does this site get but what are kind of the cycles 8
throughout the day, what times is it loudest. I can tell you that from past projects the loudest 9
things tend to be the Caltrain, of course, when it comes by as well as El Camino truck traffic 10
early in the morning when there's a lot of trucks moving through. Those are – tend to be the 11
spikes. And so the acoustical engineer will take that data and they'll come back to us with our 12
plans and they'll tell us in order to meet the 50-decibel – I think it might be – requirement for 13
noise inside of a unit given how loud it is outside, you're going to need to design your windows 14
and your walls to meet these sort of performance requirements. And that becomes something 15
that gets published in the documents and it gets designed to achieve that. 16
17
Chair Chang: Thank you. 18
19
Jeffrey Galbraith: [Inaudible 53:31]. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Commissioner Summa. 2
3
Commissioner Summa: Just a couple quick questions. It appears from the garage plans A6.03 – 4
the ones right in that vicinity – that – but I just wanted to verify that 2 cars can pass – can fit in 5
the locations where there are the planters for the trees. 6
7
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yes. 8
9
Commissioner Summa: They can? 10
11
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yes. 12
13
Commissioner Summa: Okay. It appeared that way, but I wasn't sure it was all exactly to scale. 14
15
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. The width of the full courtyard – [sorry 54:03] – is 30 feet and a typical 16
[2A 54:05] like passing… 17
18
Commissioner Summa: Twenty. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. There you go. 1
2
Commissioner Summa: Okay. And on a site visit, I noticed that the driveway that I suppose is 3
access for the back of Town & Country behind you, that your – the cyclone fence that has been 4
up for a couple of years delin-, showing your property, that the parking spots go under the 5
fence. So they are pull-in parking spots, angled. Is that going to be – is the fence that's there on 6
the actual property line? 7
8
Jeffrey Galbraith: It's very close to it. Yeah. 9
10
Commissioner Summa: Okay. 11
12
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. 13
14
Commissioner Summa: So those will be shorter as they are now since the fence that's been 15
there? 16
17
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. When the lots were built, they were built sort of ignoring property lines 18
and maximizing [inaudible 54:56]. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Summa: Well, yeah. It was all one use… 1
2
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. 3
4
Commissioner Summa: …even though it was different owners. 5
6
Jeffrey Galbraith: [Right 54:59]. 7
8
Commissioner Summa: Okay. And what – was I mistaken l-, about this that there were some 9
garage accesses where you had to make 5 maneuvers to get in? 10
11
Jeffrey Galbraith: Let's see. Some are tighter than others. I don't know the count off the top of 12
my head. 13
14
Commissioner Summa: I might be remembering that incorrectly. 15
16
Jeffrey Galbraith: I think the one on the top right here is sort of one of the ones that takes the 17
most. One, 2, 3, 4 – yeah. It just depends on who's behind the wheel, but yeah. 18
19
Female: [Inaudible 55:31]. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. That a lot too, right? 2
3
Commissioner Summa: Yes. Okay. Thank you for that. 4
5
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. You bet. 6
7
Chair Chang: Okay. Any other clarifying questions? If not, let's go to public comment. And we do 8
have the chance to ask more questions later on. 9
10
PUBLIC COMMENTS 11
Chair Chang: All right. Do we have any speaker cards, Ms. Dao, or raised hands online? 12
13
Veronica Dao: Yes. I have 2 speaker cards, one from Dean Rubinson. 14
15
Chair Chang: Okay. 16
17
Dean Rubinson: Thank you. My name is Dean Rubinson, Director of Development for Ellis 18
Partners and Town & Country Village. I want to thank you for the opportunity to address the 19
proposed project in our north parking lot. In summary, while we appreciate the changes the 20
applicant has made over time, in our view the proposal will still result in an isolated and 21
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
architecturally incompatible project that has not addressed many of the operational concerns 1
that we've consistently raised. More specifically, despite longstanding indications from staff 2
that we could not develop residential in our parking lots, we were made aware just this past 3
November by the City that the interpretation of the Comprehensive Plan has evolved and such 4
that we [can 56:58] convert our parking lots also to residential use. 5
6
Due to this recent change, along with encouragement from the ARB, we began working 7
diligently with our architects, contractors, and brokers to explore the design and financial 8
feasibility of a housing development project in the remainder of the north lot. We've had a 9
number of meetings with the broader ownership group of Town & Country, and all parties are 10
supportive of such a broader development. Given our progress, Ellis Partners recently spoke 11
with Stormland Development to discuss the possibility of a combined housing project on all the 12
parcels in the north lot, including a meeting that we had with them earlier today. The general 13
tone of these meetings has been positive, and we look forward to further discussions. We are 14
supportive of thoroughly exploring the potential of a combined and master planned project 15
that would ensure operational compatibility with the existing and much-loved retail center and 16
any future housing development. A comprehensive project extending across the entire north 17
lot would meet the findings for a PHZ in a way that this isolated project cannot. While we 18
respect the time and energy that Stormland and Hayes Group have put into the proposed 19
project on 70 Encina, we believe a combined project would be best for all parties including the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
community and visitors to Town & Country. We look forward to continued discussions with 1
Stormland and are hopeful that we can find a holistic development solution that results in over 2
a hundred new housing units including a wide range of unit sizes and affordability levels. We 3
are happy to answer any questions you have and look forward to further exploring this idea 4
with Stormland and with the Commission. Thank you. 5
6
Chair Chang: Thank you. 7
8
Veronica Dao: Next is from Herb Borock. 9
10
Herb Borock: Good evening, Commissioners. I believe that you should not take any action on 11
this item tonight because I believe the item before you violates both the California 12
Environmental Quality Act and the City's zoning ordinance. Environmental regulations define a 13
project as the whole of an action and that each separate discretionary approval is not a project, 14
that they all have to be evaluated together [in the 59:38] environmental review. Five days after 15
this project was considered and acted upon by the Architectural Review Board, the applicant 16
submitted a discretionary approval for a tentative subdivision map. As I understand the 17
environmental regulations, both of those discretionary approvals are part of the same project 18
and need to be evaluated together before recommendations can be made by either the 19
Architectural Review Board or this Commission. Therefore, instead of taking action, the project 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
application should go back to the Architectural Review Board when staff prepares a complete 1
environmental document for the project that includes both the rezoning and the tentative 2
subdivision map and any of the other discretionary approvals that are requested for the 3
project. 4
5
In addition to that, the Planned Home Zoning criteria which provide additional entitlements has 6
never been adopted as part of the zoning ordinance. To be able to use those, there needs to be 7
an amendment to the zoning ordinance as required by Chapter 18.80 of the Palo Alto Municipal 8
Code. They could be made part of the Planned Community Zone District Regulations or they can 9
create a separate general zone district for PHZ. So that is a separate violation of the California 10
Environmental Quality Act because it is contrary to City-adopted regulations for land use. 11
12
I submitted these comments this afternoon by an email addressed to the Commission. I never 13
received an acknowledgment as I have from other parties that were sent via email at the same 14
time, and when staff listed the comments about – they had received about the project, it 15
omitted the one that I had submitted. There are multiple ways of getting items into the 16
administrative record. However, this is the second time this has happened, and I believe the 17
first time was also on this project [before the 61:59] ARB when staff did not acknowledge that I 18
had submitted comments in writing. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So in summary, I believe that you should not take action on this. It should go back to the ARB so 1
it can review the entire project's environmental review document before it takes action, which 2
it must do before you receive it. Anybody who participates in a public hearing on environmental 3
review can challenge any project approval based upon any items that are in the administrative 4
record. They don't have to be the ones who made the comments. Thank you. 5
6
Chair Chang: Thank you. Could I just ask staff to speak to the second set of public comments 7
regarding the legal issues? 8
9
Albert Yang: Yes. Staff does not believe there are any violations of CEQA or our zoning code. 10
The environmental analysis, the Class 32 Exemption considered the project as a whole. It can 11
consider both the rezoning and the tentative map even if those are not being presented for a 12
decision at the same time. I'd also note that the tentative map simply changes the method of 13
ownership for these units but wouldn't have an impact on the environmental impacts of the 14
project. 15
16
Chair Chang: Thank you. And did you want to speak to the PHZ PC [component 63:54]? 17
18
Albert Yang: Sure. With the PHZ, the City Council basically indicated that they would be open to 19
reviewing these types of PCs, and they further indicated that they would consider a certain 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
level of affordability to be a public benefit for purposes of the PC. So there does not need to be 1
a separate section in our code to deal with PHZs. It's just a type of PC where the Council proda-, 2
provided some direction on what it would consider to be a sufficient public benefit. 3
4
Chair Chang: Thank you. And while we're on this topic, Ms. Kallas, I believe it was this project 5
where in the staff report you had made – you – there was a bit of a discussion about the level of 6
affordability. Is that correct? Could you just review that for us since Mr. Yang just alluded to a 7
PHZ and the level of affordability that City Council had indicated that they would be receptive 8
to? 9
10
Emily Kallas: Yes. And so in the direction City Council had provided, they recommended at least 11
20 percent of the units to be deed restricted below market rate. They had provided 3 or 4 12
options for how those affordable units could be broken down amongst many levels. However, 13
for this particular project, because it is only 10 units, it's not necessarily possible to provide a 14
wide range of affordability. And so this project is proposing to do 2 units at the 80 to 100 15
percent AMI level which we are – which we believe is consistent with Council's direction to be 16
providing 20 percent affordable unit. Yes. Thank you. 17
18
Chair Chang: Thank you. Okay. Commissioner comments and – or do we need a rebuttal? We 19
need to rebuttal, don't we? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: We do need to provide the applicant an opportunity if they've got any closing 2
statement and then if there are any questions for them from the Commission. 3
4
Chair Chang: Right. So if the applicant would like to come, they – we've got 3 minutes for a 5
rebuttal or closing statements. 6
7
Ed Storm: Members of the Commission, [excuse me 66:34]. My name is Ed Storm and I am the 8
proponent of this project. First of all, thank you for the time you've spent working on this. 9
We've been at it a little over 2 years and three-quarters of a million dollars, and we hope that 10
we're showing the path forward to put housing in a location that now is just parking cars. That's 11
how we first got into this project. We wanted to do the whole site, but there was no invitation 12
to do that at the time. They've – since, we've had conversations and will continue to have those 13
conversations. I think it's the right thing to do ultimately, and we hope we're part of that, but 14
we're paving the way here and we don't want to be penalized for it, so we'd like to have your 15
approval for this. This is a good chance not to stop something but to move something forward 16
that shows the City really does care about housing. Thank you very much. 17
18
Chair Chang: Thank you. All right. So members of the Commission, if you have questions or 19
comments, please light it up. So Commissioner Peterson? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Peterson: Yeah. Am I allowed to ask the applicant a question? 2
3
Chair Chang: Yes. I will say yes. 4
5
Commissioner Peterson: So it's just a quick question. 6
7
Jennifer Armer: Yes. Until we close the public comment. 8
9
Commissioner Peterson: Right. So the – if this an agreement that you have the initial approval 10
for this square, say, but you go forward from here and let's say you become the builder for the 11
whole complex. Let's say that's the eventual decision since you seem to be capable of building. 12
Is that – what's the process for you to come back – I don't know if you necessarily – I assume 13
you'd probably know this better than I do for sure – to come back with a more elaborate 14
project that's more expansive? 15
16
Jeffrey Galbraith: Right. So if this pro-, if this process moves forward as we would like to see it, 17
we get – garner your approval and then move on to City Council, we're entitled to then submit 18
a building permit application, which is still a process yet to come. We would like to get through 19
the entitlement process soon here as we continue talks, as Ed Storm and Stormland continue 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
talks with Ellis Partners, and if there's something that's able to gel there and generate another 1
project application, there is nothing that prevents that project from being submitted 2
simultaneously. Even though it might overlap, obviously only one of them can move forward 3
through the building permit phase. But that would be the plan here, is to get this entitled and 4
continue talks, and if there's a way we can work together, we're – we'd love to see a bigger 5
development. 6
7
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. Appreciate that. 8
9
Jeffrey Galbraith: [You bet 69:01]. 10
11
Chair Chang: Commissioner Summa? Is that Commissioner Hechtman? 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: Sure. Since no one's jumping in, I will go. Let's see. A couple 14
questions. First, Condition 17 on Packet Page 54 is a public art requirement, and I just wanted 15
to confirm that those requirements do apply to residential projects of this size. 16
17
Emily Kallas: Yes. Residential projects with more than 5 units are subject to the public art 18
requirements which may be provided on site or paid as in-lieu fees, and this project will be 19
paying in-lieu fees. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Thank you. Next, just a mention. In your staff report, you 2
mentioned that some of the figures – the FAR and square footage were – had included the 3
garage. That's now corrected in our staff report, and I just wanted to remind staff as this moves 4
forward to correct it in the draft ordinance that's going to Council. I want to talk about 5
landscaping, green space, and I appreciate the comments of the applicant and really the 6
constraints of this site to provide the largest units we can, really preclude any kind of 7
substantial traditional open space. And what I'm – but I'm seeing these, I think they're called 8
vine walls in some of the plans, along both of the long sides. And I was just wondering – and I 9
wonder if we could pull up the view of the building as you're sort of departing Town & Country 10
heading toward Encina. I'm curious about the treatment of that corner. If we could show – 11
toward the end of this when you did sort of the 360, there was – yeah. [Inaudible 71:16]. 12
13
Emily Kallas: I believe it may be #15. 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: Go back a couple. 16
17
Jeffrey Galbraith: I'm wondering if I – if it's in your packet, but it might not [inaudible 71:24]. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. There was one that was close enough sort of – it was like 1
looking down the alleyway, if you will. Yeah. This one. 2
3
Jeffrey Galbraith: This one here. 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. That one. 6
7
Jeffrey Galbraith: Okay. Yeah. 8
9
Commissioner Hechtman: All right. So this isn't ideally, but if to [inaudible 71:36]. 10
11
Jeffrey Galbraith: [Inaudible 71:36] corner. 12
13
Commissioner Hechtman: The road through Town & Country out to Encina is at the far end of 14
the building now, right? 15
16
Jeffrey Galbraith: Correct. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: And so as those people depart, that's the – that's when they first see 1
your project at ground level. And so I'm wondering if on that far corner there's an opportunity 2
to have a vine wall – actually is there one that's behind the pole? 3
4
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yes. Yeah. There is. 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 7
8
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. We have to have enough of a setback… 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: Right. 11
12
Jeffrey Galbraith: [Inaudible 72:18] get to it and [take care of it 72:20]. 13
14
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. I actually didn't pick up the vine wall facing that corner in my 15
review. I was hoping to make a little bit softer corner, but you've already done it, so – all right. 16
Thank you for that. 17
18
Jeffrey Galbraith: You bet. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: Let's see. I wanted to talk about the – actually let me step back and 1
make an overall comment. I liked this project the first time it came before us. It's a little bit 2
better now, and I like it a little bit more. So I appreciate the work that was done at the front. I 3
appreciate the constraints that we're dealing with here. 4
5
So in terms of the affordable BMR units and the explanation on Packet Page 37, so where we 6
land in this small project, 2 units, we're going to have 2 units that are affordable at the range of 7
80 to 100 percent. And staff has found that's consistent with Council direction, and I agree. But 8
I'm wondering if there's an alternative, and I wanted to first find out if we're allowed to do it as 9
a City, and if so, then I want to know if the applicant's willing to do it. So right now we have 10
these 2 units that will be priced at the 80 to 100 percent range,– AMI – and I think our 11
experience is wherever there's a range, the price tends to be the upper end of that range. So 12
we're likely to get two at approximately 100 percent. I'm – it seems to me 2 units at 100 13
percent is the same at 1 unit at 80 percent plus 1 unit at 120 percent – the same number of 14
dollars are transferred. And so I'm wondering if there's an opportunity here, first can the City 15
do it and, if so, is the applicant agreed that one of these units would be at 80 percent and the 16
other unit could be at 120 percent, 80 percent or less, 120 or less. So first staff, do we have the 17
authority to do that? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Emily Kallas: This is a fully discretionary project and so we are going with guidelines provided by 1
Council, but you as the PTC could make a recommendation to Council that a different mix you 2
feel would better serve the purpose of it being the public benefit. 3
4
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Mr. Yang? Anything – do you want to add anything? 5
6
Albert Yang: Nope. That's correct. Thank you. 7
8
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. And then from the applicant. Again, I'm not looking to 9
cause trouble, but if it works the same for you, what it does for the City is it adds one more 10
deeply affordable unit. 11
12
Jeffrey Galbraith: Right. So I'd say in general we're open to that concept. I think there's a key 13
question there which I have asked the City several times and I've never gotten a straight 14
answer. And that is how are the actual prices fixed in the end before they're sold. I can't tell you 15
that because no one's ever been able to tell me that [inaudible 75:45]. 16
17
Chair Chang: We've asked the same thing. 18
19
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: We've asked the same thing in this room. 2
3
Jeffrey Galbraith: And so I don't know that it's necessarily our choice completely. I would love 4
to know where the black book is that defines that. 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. Fair enough for tonight. So eventually we're going to 7
get to a motion, and what I'd like to do with that particular issue is I'd like to kind of put a pin in 8
it to be explored more as this travels to Council so that hopefully by the time it gets to Council 9
the applicant has a clear answer and can make an informed decision of whether it's something 10
they'd be open to or not. All right. 11
12
And then the only other comment I might want to make is on this concept that's really not 13
directly before us but it's indirectly before us – this concept of developing the whole north 14
parking lot. And I see that the ARB were so enthused that they actually made a 15
recommendation in dealing with what's before us – or their architectural review – about 16
encouraging the Council to look at rezoning the whole north lot. So I think it'd be terrific if 17
ultimately along Encina there this whole parking lot was developed with 100 units. And I think 18
that there is an opportunity to do that, and I'm encouraged now that Ellis Partners has learned 19
– and I do understand for a long time it was not their understanding that housing was even 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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possible on the property they owned, and so now that it's changed in interpretation, whatever 1
it is, now you're open to it and looking at it, I think the project before us is worthy of approval 2
and I think it should move forward to approval. And I think that as this moves forward and even 3
once it's approved, I think it's in Ellis Partners's interest to essentially make an offer they can't 4
refuse because I think they realize there is substantial benefit potential for Ellis Partner 5
obviously, and I think that to be part of a larger project could benefit Mr. Storm. I don’t know all 6
of Ellis Partners's work. I know you are exceptional at running shopping centers and developing 7
them. I don't know that you have as much background in developing housing, but if you did 8
some sort of deal here, part of what you would be getting is not just access to this land, but you 9
would be getting the expertise of one of the more experienced residential developers in the 10
South Bay. And so I think that there is real opportunity here to have the current applicant 11
happily sit on an approval while they work on something bigger and better from their 12
perspective as well as yours. So I would encourage that process to happen as you go forward. 13
So I am supportive of this project moving forward per staff recommendation with this item and 14
I'd like to flag the possibility of splitting the BMRs. Thank you. 15
16
Chair Chang: Other Commissioners? I'm not seeing – Commissioner Peterson? 17
18
Commissioner Peterson: I have a quick question on splitting of the BMRs. What was the point 19
on that? I'm sorry. I just missed it. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Hechtman: Just that I would like to – right now, the way this would be approved 2
is 2 BMRs each in the range of 80 to 100. And so what I'm asking be explored is whether it 3
might yield the same financial result for the developer if one of the BMRs was 80 percent or 4
below– which was at the low end – and the other was 120 percent or below because those 2 5
add up to 200 the same as 100 and 100. 6
7
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. I agree wholly with that, even 50 and below. The way I 8
understand it is the splitting point for – I don't know why I use City staff as a proxy for the 9
community, but half the City staff is 50 below and the other half of City staff is paid that they'd 10
be 50 and above, be able to live in that housing. The comment I wanted to make is earlier I 11
alluded to walking paths, and so now that we've expanded a little bit in the property lines now 12
with the walking path discussion, there is a beautiful walking path there along the railroad 13
tracks that you can't walk to because the sidewalk ends about 12 feet short. I can go to Home 14
Depot and get some pavers and fix the problem, but please put some interest into tying that 15
pathway in. I think there'd be – I have kids and a family, and my kids go out and run out, but it's 16
[inaudible 80:57] my kids are running into the street to go to the walking path so they can go to 17
school. That's not a safe route to school, so I really would encourage looking at the – continuing 18
the pathways from your site connecting with the rest of the neighborhood, which I assume you 19
probably would anyways. Thank you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Commission Akin? 2
3
Vice-Chair Akin: Thank you, Chair. 4
5
Chair Chang: Vice-Chair Akin. 6
7
Vice-Chair Akin: I'll accept either. Last time this came before us, I was worried that it was going 8
to be a rather barren and noisy place to live, and I appreciate the clarification on handling noise 9
and also the improvements in green livability here. But that's just personal opinion. I am also 10
pleased that my objective concerns from the first review have been addressed. I think we're all 11
glad that those bulb-outs are gone, and I'm happy to see that the parking restrictions will be 12
considered when the CC&Rs come around. I'd like us to consider – like us, the Commission, to 13
consider recommending that staff ask for direction from Council on the issue of affordability 14
levels for rentals versus ownership projects because that came up on Packet Page 37 here and 15
this is far from the first time this issue has come up. So if this is an opportune moment, it would 16
be nice to request some clarity from Council on that. My notes here say this project's 17
affordability exceeds our current standards so I'll take that as being sufficient, although I am 18
interested in seeing Commissioner Hechtman's proposal examined as well. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
I hope the negotiations for a more comprehensive project succeed, but in the meantime, like 1
the ARB, we have to make a decision about this project on its own. And I agree that it's 2
consistent with the Comp Plan EIR, and I believe I can make all the necessary findings. So I will 3
also be supporting it. Thank you. 4
5
Chair Chang: Com-, Commissioner Summa. 6
7
Commissioner Summa: So I want to thank the members of the public, and I thought that good 8
points were brought up, but this is the way – and we've asked these questions about the PHZ 9
zoning, but this is the way staff has interpreted it thus far. I think it would be cleaner if we 10
changed the municipal code so that there weren't these questions about what affordability 11
level, etc. And I also want to thank the applicant because I think his – the journey has been a 12
hard one with a lot of change in opinions about what you should do on your property. I am 13
concerned about – I'm excited by the possibility of having a larger project on this site if that's 14
possible with the parking requirements for Town & Country, but I'm troubled by discussing this 15
project in – with that in view. And I'm also slightly troubled by approving this project with the 16
idea that you would keep this project in your back pocket in case the larger, more cohesive 17
project which has – if that were ever to happen – could have a much more realistic landscape 18
plan for everyone to enjoy and also circulation on site. So I – so it's kind of a weird situation, 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and I really appreciate that even more as I reviewed for the second time this morning the 1
February 6 ARB meeting. 2
3
So I still have trouble with this project – a standalone project that might still exist in a parking 4
lot. And I also think that it doesn't make any sense to me to reduce the development standards 5
to basically no rear setback as rounded up by our staff and with no landscaping at grade 6
possible unless it's clinging to the side of the building. I'm really troubled by that, and I'm 7
troubled by the circulation and access. You cannot call what is a driveway – a gated driveway 8
also a courtyard. It cannot be used as a courtyard. Even for the not up to our standards 9
personal open space for the units, you're looking down on the courtyard, which is not a 10
courtyard; it's a driveway. So I still have – even though a lot of improvements were made that I 11
really, really appreciate, I still have problems making Finding #3 with this project, and I have a 12
little bit of trouble interpreting we want this approved even if it's not what we want to do. And I 13
understand the entitlement process, etc., but it still troubles me. 14
15
So I just – and I really would appreciate clarification from Council on the AMI levels so we could 16
be sure what we really could expect and ask for and what we would be guaranteed. So I'm still 17
not quite there with the setbacks, the landscaping. I don't mind the lot coverage so much and 18
FAR, but I think it would be more successful – it's very nicely designed – if it had some room 19
around it. It just seems too big for the lot, and the only way to achieve that would be to go 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
higher, which some of the commenters earlier in the process did not want. So I'm still a bit 1
troubled by this future successfulness of this project as a standalone project. And I don't know – 2
I know that when Trader Joe's was approved for Town & Country – I forget the exact year but –3
that they were required to remove buildings from the parcels that make up the north lot that 4
had been there at the time so that they would have sufficient parking. So we're reassessing 5
that, but I want to make sure that Town & Country, because it's such a hugely successful part of 6
the community, has sufficient parking. And I don't know how to evaluate a theoretical building 7
and its relationship with the real application. So that's where the trouble lies for me. 8
9
Chair Chang: Thank you. Commissioner Ji? 10
11
Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. I'd like to echo some of the sentiments that Commissioner 12
Summa said. I'm pretty excited about this project. I think that there are very few sites within 13
the City of Palo Alto that you could walk to a grocery store and that you could go to school on a 14
pretty safe bike path behind your house. I think I'm very excited about that. That being said, I 15
think that there are some issues that I'm a little bit concerned about, one of which is the green 16
space that I previously mentioned. I'd like to see, if possible, there would be more green space. 17
And like Commissioner Summa, I'm not sure I could consider a concrete driveway as sufficient 18
green space there. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
In addition, I'm looking at Finding 3 for the Planned Community Findings, and it talks about 1
being compatible with existing and potential uses on adjoining sites. I am a little bit worried 2
about having a basically rounded 0 setback as being potentially compatible with potential 3
adjoining sites. I'm currently living near a project which also is potentially extending or reducing 4
its setbacks, and that is concerning to me if I were to live somewhere and all of the sudden I am 5
living right – immediately next to another building because there is no setback there. I know 6
that for just other residential properties around town there are larger setback protections for 7
that. So – and then also for anyone who's been to Encina, they know that it's a complete – it's 8
always completely parked, and so that's also another thing that I'm interested to see if there 9
are other solutions that could be brought around there as well. Thank you. 10
11
Chair Chang: All right. Seeing no other lights, I'll take my turn right now. My – I – before – the 12
first time this project came before the Commission, I was a little skeptical of the location 13
because it seems like it'd be in a concrete desert, but it has some really good things about it like 14
proximity to services, proximity to transportation. But now there's new information that 15
concerns me which is – it doesn't concern me, per se. It's actually a fantastic opportunity 16
because now maybe there'd be the potential for a 5-story development with parking on the 17
ground floor that will provide sufficient parking for the building as well as for Town & Country 18
in a really wonderful place for people who want to live close to services in kind of a more 19
urbanized environment that could provide a ton of units of housing, which we need. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
So where I struggle also with this is what to do regarding – like when I look at how we as the 2
Commission are supposed to make our findings with respect to every PC or – and PHZ, there's 3
this Finding #3 that Commissioner Ji alluded to and compatible w-, compatibility with future 4
uses. And that's where I really wonder about the compatibility of this, particularly given the 5
setbacks because the reason why you've got setbacks is both to protect the people who are on 6
the subject property but also the owners of the adjacent properties. And by having a building 7
that goes all the way essentially – except for 7 inches – up to the property line, then if we're 8
going to have enough room to maintain that wall, then the adjacent property owner isn't also 9
going to be able to build up to 7 inches from the property line. They're going to need more 10
space than that. So that is a concern that I have. I understand that this really stinks for you guys 11
as the applicant with a moving target, but we are tasked with making a finding that says that 12
we're looking at potential uses on the adjoining sites. And formerly at the last meeting, we 13
were told that it was going to be a parking lot for the foreseeable future because of the long-14
term lease, and now we're being told no, that's not the case. So I would hate to cut off our 15
noses despite our face and end up with something that really doesn't work for that whole – 16
because this is a discretionary approval for something that just doesn't work for the whole 17
parcel. So I'm a little stuck. Commissioner Summa? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Summa: I also forgot to mention that I very much appreciate Commissioner 1
Peterson's request to add access to the bicycle and walking path. 2
3
Chair Chang: Okay. I'm not seeing other lights here. I do see that our applicant desperately 4
would like to speak. And because you've put in so much work, this is not something that we 5
normally do, but I am going to let you go ahead and speak because we want to hear – this is 6
such an unusual situation and sort of the work that you've put in and uncertainty about the 7
future is something that we would like to hear about. 8
9
Jennifer Armer: Thr-, yeah. Through the Chair, if you could frame that as a question and give 10
them that specific direction, that's helpful in terms of [the process 94:22]. 11
12
Chair Chang: Well, hopefully I gave the direction now. 13
14
Jennifer Armer: [Yeah 94:23]. That's great. Thank you. 15
16
Jeffrey Galbraith: Okay. Great. Chair, thank you. Appreciate the opportunity to respond. I – and 17
it may be appropriate to have staff comment on this as well. You commented about Finding 3 18
being about a project being compatible with future adjacent uses. I think there's a pretty 19
important distinction between a future use and a future project. It's kind of impossible for any 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
one project ever to know what project may come. Even in this instance where there's a lot of 1
interest in doing something else next door, there's so much complexity between where we sit 2
today and where that might end up if it goes forward. So the uses I think are clear. That's how I 3
would interpret it, and I'm happy to hear from Emily as well, but I think it's either a parking lot 4
or it's more retail or it's residential. I don't think we're – we're not talking about a scenario 5
where an industrial fabrication plant is being built in a place where there's likely to be housing 6
built next door where there would be a clear and obvious sort of conflict between those uses. 7
8
Chair Chang: All right. Thank you. No, we understand that, but the wording very clearly says 9
existing and potential uses on adjoining sites within the general vicinity. So I don't know if staff 10
wants to add anything. 11
12
Emily Kallas: I think the only thing that I would add is that we are reviewing this project as 13
currently proposed and we are looking at the findings for this project. Any potential for a future 14
project – if you recall, I had the process slide up earlier that showed a new project would start 15
with a Council prescreening, it would come back to the PTC, ARB, PTC Council. I might have lost 16
track of where I was going. 17
18
Jennifer Armer: I can continue. And so when we have a situation where there's another 19
application being processed at the same time that there are materials that have been 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
submitted, we often do include those as part of the discussions. But as was stated, it's very 1
difficult to evaluate this in relation to some potential future development that may or may not 2
occur or what it would look like. So in general, the guidance is that you take a look at what is 3
there, what the allowed uses are on the adjacent sites. This isn't raising pigs or some really 4
disruptive industrial use that would be a problem for the allowed uses on the adjacent sites and 5
is designed in a way that an adjacent site could be developed. It's not preventing those other 6
sites from future development with the use that we'd like. And then staff will continue to be 7
available to work with and encourage these applicants to do a more comprehensive plan, but 8
we would strongly encourage to continue to move forward with this proposal with the clear 9
indication from the discussion we've received tonight that a larger plan would be advantageous 10
and suppor-, fully supported by the Planning Commission, ARB, and staff to try and do 11
something more comprehensive. Thank you. 12
13
Chair Chang: Just – well, before we go to other – I just want to ask one other question. So Ms. 14
Kallas, can you provide some clarification for me on that 7-inch setback on the back side and 15
fire access? So right now, how is fire accessing? Is it b-, actually also the side. So how is fire 16
accessing given the 7-inch setback? Are they using the empty space that is – that's currently 17
empty space on the adjoining property? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Emily Kallas: The plans do include fire egress-related diagrams. I believe that it is on the sides. 1
Let's see. 2
3
Chair Chang: Yeah. I saw that page, but I just wasn't clear about how the fire in-, egress would 4
work. Maybe the applicant can clarify it for us. 5
6
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. I'd be happy to. 7
8
Chair Chang: Yeah. 9
10
Jeffrey Galbraith: So the 7-inch setback is along the rear property line. All right. So it's on the 11
side that faces the back side of Town & Country. The side yards have 5-foot setbacks from the 12
property line to the face of the building. And so those 5… 13
14
Chair Chang: So… 15
16
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. 17
18
Chair Chang: Clarify the – in our Packet Page – there's a Packet Page that said 7 inches to 5 feet. 19
So does it – is it 5 feet all the way along or does it… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. It's 5 [foot 99:11]… 2
3
Chair Chang: …kind of go in and out? 4
5
Jeffrey Galbraith: …for most of the way until you get [to 99:12] all the way to the back, and at 6
the back it comes closer. 7
8
Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. So continue, please, about what you were talking about, the fire 9
access. 10
11
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. So there's a couple of diagrams that I think Emily's got pulled up here. 12
They're in… 13
14
Chair Chang: Yes. 15
16
Jeffrey Galbraith: …the Packet as well. So we did a lot of back and forth work with the Fire 17
Department. They wanted to make sure that they could get to the rooftop from a couple of 18
locations, and so they want to be able to move freely all the way [down 99:38] both property 19
side lot lines. And then what we've done is we've built into the rear facade and the front facade 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
concealed, basically kind of like fire escapes, but the one in the back is screened and the one in 1
the front is concealed adjacent to a [prior 99:54] patio. So they have a way that they can come 2
with their ladders, lean it up to the building and then climb the rest of the way up. So there's – 3
they're using those 5-foot side setbacks for… 4
5
Chair Chang: For the ladder? 6
7
Jeffrey Galbraith: …for reaching all the way to the back of the lot. 8
9
Chair Chang: So that's what I was confused about. So if you look at the upper right… 10
11
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. 12
13
Chair Chang: Is that – where is the bottom of that ladder? Is it on the property… 14
15
Jeffrey Galbraith: Okay. 16
17
Chair Chang: …or is it on the other property? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jeffrey Galbraith: So the image on the upper right, that is on the street frontage. So the bottom 1
of that ladder is down at the sidewalk or in the road if the angle [inaudible 100:25]. 2
3
Chair Chang: So that's on Encina? 4
5
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yes. 6
7
Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. That helps me. 8
9
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. 10
11
Chair Chang: Thank you. Thank you for clarifying that. A follow-up question from Commissioner 12
Summa? 13
14
Commissioner Summa: So it's awfully small, but I believe that the front of your plan set says 15
that the left and right setbacks are 7 inches to 5 feet varies in both cases. Is that no longer 16
correct? 17
18
Jeffrey Galbraith: No. It's when you w-, when you get all the way to the back of the property up 19
adjacent to Town & Country, they pop out. So the back corners come closer. It's just the last 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
units. If you look at the ground-floor plan, you can see that the garages for the 4 units that are 1
closest to – on each side that are closest to Encina pull in 5 feet off the lot line and then at the 2
very end the last garage comes out closer. [Inaudible 101:19]. 3
4
Commissioner Summa: Seven inches… 5
6
Jeffrey Galbraith: Yeah. 7
8
Commissioner Summa: …and 5 feet? Okay. 9
10
Jeffrey Galbraith: And so part of what's happening there is that we're creating a landing for the 11
Fire Department to lean their ladders up to. For this site, because of the power lines that run 12
along Encina Avenue, many of which we're undergrounding but we can't underground the 13
transmission lines that are high voltage up at 50 feet, the Fire Department cannot use an aerial 14
access lift. They – it's just not – they don't feel like it's safe and so that's why we built the 15
ladders in. So they have to be able to use their ladders, which have a limited length, to get 16
there, and there was a lot of back and forth with them to make this work. 17
18
Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you for the clarification. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Jeffrey Galbraith: [Yeah 101:57]. 1
2
Chair Chang: So we've got Commissioner Ji and then Commissioner Hechtman. 3
4
Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. I actually had a question going back to one of the public 5
comments about how I believe Ellis and Partners said that the staff originally had said that they 6
– residential was not appropriate for this site and then at some point changed. Can staff talk a 7
little bit about the timeline for this discussion? 8
9
Emily Kallas: So the Comprehensive Plan Policy which is one of the ones in the findings… 10
11
Chair Chang: So I believe that Comprehensive Plan Policy was amended to say that in certain CC 12
areas housing was appropriate. That was done after the Housing Element was approved as part 13
of one of the programs for the Housing Element. Is that what you're referring to, Ms. Kallas? 14
15
Emily Kallas: So that is part of it. This site is designated as a housing inventory site as a part of 16
the Housing Element that was adopted last year. Additionally, one of the findings refers to – 17
one of the Land Use Element policies refers to maintaining retail at Town & Country and not 18
allowing conversion of retail to residential. And so I don't know the exact timeline, but there 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
was discussion on how this project is in the parking lot and that does not constitute conversion 1
of retail. All of the retail would be remaining. 2
3
Jennifer Armer: Yeah. And it does come down to the language [inaudible 104:02] program 4
L2.4.4 from the Comprehensive Plan. And it's talking about assessing nonresidential 5
development potential in some of these zones, and then the last sentence is conversion to 6
residential capacity should not be considered in Town & Country Village. And so our current 7
understanding of that language based on the fact that it's starting t-, and talking about 8
nonresidential uses and then the word conversion is included in particular to Town & Country, 9
particularly in the current environment where there really is interest in finding opportunities for 10
additional housing, that there is support as long as there isn't loss of the other uses on that site. 11
12
Commissioner Ji: So just to follow up there. So what we're saying is that the other lots of the 13
north parking lot that Ellis and Partners mentioned, those are potentially applicable for 14
conversion? 15
16
Jennifer Armer: We would be looking to make sure that there is still sufficient parking per 17
parking requirements for the shopping center, but otherwise, yes, that is our current 18
understanding. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: And just in terms of timing – so on Packet Page 35, there's a designation that – the 1
top paragraph which talks about the Comp Plan designation of Community Commercial, we did 2
edit to add the last sentence after the adoption of the Housing Element. So in terms of timing, 3
that would be fairly recently because the Housing Element was officially adopted in – I think we 4
made those Comp Plan changes aiming for a January 2024… 5
6
Jennifer Armer: Yeah. 7
8
Chair Chang: …change, if that was my recollection. 9
10
Jennifer Armer: I believe those changes were made about a year ago prior to actual certification 11
but as the Housing Element process was moving forward. 12
13
Chair Chang: Right. So after this team started the application. 14
15
Commissioner Ji: I just had a couple other follow-up questions about this. So I think I remember 16
reading somewhere in the Packet that one of these lots is a Housing Element lot. Is that 17
correct? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Emily Kallas: Yes. The site is currently comprised of 2 lots. They have individual APNs, and one 1
of them was listed as a Housing Element site with a capacity of 4 units. 2
3
Commissioner Ji: And then are any of the other lots in the north parking right now considered 4
Housing Element sites? 5
6
Emily Kallas: They are not on the inventory. 7
8
Commissioner Ji: [All right 106:42]. Thank you. 9
10
Chair Chang: All right. Commissioner Hechtman? 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: So I'm prepared to make a motion, but before I do, I wanted to 13
explore just for a moment with Commissioner Peterson the walkability issue just so I can 14
understand what the issue there is. So this site fronts on Encina, and I think the walkability 15
you're talking about is from this site to the existing pedestrian and bike path. Is that right? 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: That is correct. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. And so just so I can understand the existing condition, staff, 1
from this site heading over to the existing bike path, is there a continuous sidewalk that 2
traverses that length and wraps that little cul-de-sac? Do we know? 3
4
Jennifer Armer: We can take a look… 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: The… 7
8
Emily Kallas: So the sidewalk that exists does continue across the entire frontage of this 9
property. I believe that the section that Commissioner Peterson is referring to is at the end of 10
Encina, not abutting this property. 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: Right. I think if I'm understanding the Commissioner, he's really 13
talking about from the edge of this property over to the bike path. 14
15
Commissioner Peterson: That's correct. 16
17
Commissioner Hechtman: Right. And so do you happen to know from your time over there 18
whether there's a sidewalk right now that's continuous from this site to the bike path? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Peterson: So on either side of – it's Encina is the name of the street? At the cul-1
de-sac, there's a driveway for each of the commercial lots on either side. The sidewalk runs to 2
that driveway and then does not continue on the other side of the driveway, leaving maybe 8 3
feet from the other side of the driveway to the bike path. And then the bike path, of course, is – 4
the chain link fence runs right to the edge it. So essentially it's just bike lanes. It's probably 5
dangerous to actually walk through that entrance because people are coming down the street 6
probably full speed and then coming onto that bike path. 7
8
Commissioner Hechtman: And from that – from the end of that cul-de-sac, can you get onto the 9
bike path? 10
11
Commissioner Peterson: There – it's just fine. There's a bollard there and it's an entrance, but 12
you'd have to walk into the street, into the rain gutter, and then back out of the street in – to 13
access the path. 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. So I [inaudible 109:31]. 16
17
Commissioner Peterson: It's a path I wouldn't allow my kids to walk. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. So what we're talking about here is really an off-site 1
improvement, which is a little tricky, but these are 10 units where there could be kids and this 2
could be of interest to the developer. I know that in 2 meetings I don't believe any of us 3
brought it up, nor members of the public, so I'm glad you did. And so I'm going to try to fold it 4
into this motion as an exploration item to see – because once we put it on the table, that'll be a 5
chance for staff and the applicant to look at it and perhaps address it as this moves toward 6
Council. So with that, I'm prepared to make a motion, and if I get a second, then I will speak to 7
it. 8
9
Chair Chang: [Inaudible 110:17]. Yeah. Commissioner Summa has a question. 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. I'll hold the motion. 12
13
Chair Chang: Thank you. 14
15
Commissioner Summa: So I'm looking on Packet Page 48 at the Comp Plan goals and 16
consistency when y-, that we were just discussing, L-6.7. And the consistency on the right side 17
says the proposed 3-story height is in scale with nearby buildings and has a 25-foot setback 18
from Town & Country Village. So one thing about that is that Town & Country Village and all the 19
north parking lot parcels including the 2 that are in question this evening abut. They abut. They 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
share a property line and there is only a 7 foot – 7 inch at the rear setback. So where's there the 1
25-foot setback? I'm just not understanding. 2
3
Emily Kallas: Yeah. Sorry. The 25 feet is the distance across the drive aisle, so between the 4
proposed building and the existing shopping center building. 5
6
Commissioner Summa: Okay. So – but – all right. But there is not a 25-foot setback at all from 7
the property line. 8
9
Jennifer Armer: It's not a setback to the property line. It's the measurement of the distance 10
between the proposed building and the existing buildings on the adjacent lot. It's more about 11
the spacing between the proposed development and the existing surrounding uses. 12
13
Commissioner Summa: [Inaudible 111:54]. Yeah. 14
15
Jennifer Armer: [Inaudible 111:55]. 16
17
Commissioner Summa: So [it's not 111:56] a setback though, it can't really be – it's not a 18
distance that c-, we can rely on being maintained because of the nearness. [A set 112:06] to 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
maintain any setback there, it would have to be part of the new proposal is my only point, so 1
that's a little issue for me. 2
3
Chair Chang: Okay. I'm – more lights. 4
5
Commissioner Ji: I had a quick follow-up based on Commissioner Summa's question, which is 6
right now what is the required setback for Town & Country? If they were to tear down that 7
building, it's 10 feet? So then if they were to rebuild that and then, given that they don't change 8
any zoning, it would actually reduce down to 10 feet and 7 inches? 9
10
Emily Kallas: It would depend on the proposed use. It would also, as a discretionary project, 11
potentially be something that would be… 12
13
Chair Chang: I think the question is for a CC zone. 14
15
Commissioner Ji: Yeah. The question's for CC. 16
17
Chair Chang: For existing zone, what can Town – what is Town & Country allowed to do? What 18
is the standard setback? And is that considered the back or the side setback for Town & 19
Country? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: That's a good question. And we will do a quick lookup to see what those 2
regulations are. It is a little difficult to know since it is a corner lot and it's a very large lot in 3
terms of what would be considered the front versus a side setback and what those 4
requirements are. Go ahead. 5
6
Emily Kallas: There are also property lines there. And so hypothetically from the information 7
that's been provided in these public hearings, the north parking lot development, there is a 8
property line there, as you noted. It wouldn't necessarily be combined with the other – with the 9
shopping center properties. If the shopping center property were to propose a redevelopment, 10
the interior – there is no requirement for a setback from an interior property line, but there are 11
fire code separation regulations for distances between existing buildings, which are typically 12
about 5 feet. So there – yeah. 13
14
Jennifer Armer: Yeah. So as you'll see in a number of our commercial zones, there are areas 15
where we have buildings right up against each other or within a few inches of each other. And 16
so anytime a new building is coming forward, we are trying to be cognizant of what could 17
potentially be built on adjacent sites, but without a proposal, you don't want to be assuming 18
the worst-case scenario. Really that future development would be reviewed, as this one is, 19
based on what's been approved or constructed on the adjacent lots. So it's a little bit of a 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
balance between what could potentially go there when we don't have an active proposal or 1
previously approved project. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. 4
5
Commissioner Summa: I will add that Town & Country's address is El Camino Real, so [inaudible 6
115:22] corner lot. 7
8
Chair Chang: So that would be [inaudible 115:22]. 9
10
Commissioner Summa: And also that this – the nor-, every single map I've ever seen of Town & 11
Country Village does not include the north parking lot as part of its property. It's a separate 12
abutting adjacent property that has in – as – that I believe has the same owner but it's n-, it's 13
not part of the Town & Country parcel. So as such, this application is not part of Town & 14
Country. 15
16
Jennifer Armer: Yes. And one additional bit of clarification in terms of the setbacks, it looks like 17
since any future development there would be adjacent to residential, it does look like there 18
would be a 10-foot setback requirement. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Emily Kallas: Just to add one more thing. On Packet Page 39, it does show the configuration of 1
the property lines. 2
3
Chair Chang: Right. So the parcel in question abuts the Town & Country property. 4
5
Commissioner Summa: It's not within it. 6
7
Chair Chang: Okay. Do we have additional lights or are we ready for a motion? Go ahead, 8
Commissioner Hechtman. 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: All right. So as I said, I'll make a motion, and then if there's a second, I 11
will explain a couple thoughts about it. So I move the staff recommendation with the FAR and 12
square footage to be corrected in the ordinance and including the recommendation that staff 13
and the applicant explore as this moves toward Council 1) the potential for off-site 14
improvements to enhance walkability safety to the pedestrian bike path at the end of Encina 15
and 2) for staff and the applicant to explore the potential to set one of the BMRs at 80 percent 16
AMI max and the other at 125 – sorry – 120 percent AMI max. 17
18
Chair Chang: Do we have a second? No second. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Akin: I'll second. Let's see where the discussion goes. 1
2
Chair Chang: All right. Commissioner Akin seconds. 3
4
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. So I really just want to focus on this Finding #3 because it does 5
seem to be creating some heartburn here on the Commission and – let's see – which is on 6
Packet Page 47. Thank you. So there's a difference in our codes between uses and structures. 7
For example, you can have a legal nonconforming structure which no longer matches the code 8
or you can have a legal nonconforming use. So that's like if I had a restaurant in a place that 9
now is zoned for residential; that's a use. And so there's a difference, and the word used here is 10
use, not – it's potential uses, not potential structures. So I think the way that this is written, it is 11
intended to be interpreted as talking about if somebody builds something next to us, will the 12
use we'd be approving now be incompatible with that? So what's being talked about here now 13
kind of generically is the possibility that in the future right next door there will be residential 14
use on the Ellis properties and residential uses are compatible with each other. So what's not 15
compatible is a residential use with a manufacturing use or an industrial use, and so I think 16
when we look at it through that lens – which, again, I think that's what the language says – then 17
whether this is a parking lot as it is in its existing use or becomes something residential in the 18
future, it's – the uses are compatible. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
In terms of the proximity of this structure to its boundaries, I think as a practical matter there 1
are 3 sides of this proposed structure that will always have a vehicle path. Encina is not going 2
away. That is always going to stay there. And at the rear of the property, as long as Town & 3
Country is there and has this row of retails that need servicing which comes in the back, that 4
back road is always going to be there. And then on the side where currently you can drive 5
through Town & Country out to Encina, I think for fire safety purposes, you will always need 6
exits to Encina in addition to those out to Embarcadero and El Camino. And so I suspect that 7
this road, if you will, will always be there. And either when they build housing, if they build 8
housing on that north lot, it'll leave that road there or maybe it'll be like Grand Central Station – 9
build over the top of it, but it's staying there. And so what that means is on 3 sides you're never 10
going to have residential uses – well, one is a street and one's a shopping center, and so the 11
closest residential use on that side is going to be across a street – private street to get out to 12
Encina. So that only gives you the side of the building that is on the train side and there's a 5-13
foot setback there. And if residential is built using sort of the same kind of logic and zoning, I 14
would expect that maybe they would mirror that with as little as a 5-foot setback creating 10 15
feet of setback. I would expect them in design elements, because they'd be interested in selling 16
those units, they would offset the windows so that whatever windows are in that new future 17
building don't line up directly with the windows in the buildings that we're talking about here, 18
which are already being treated with the recognition that today there's a parking lot. And so 19
people on those – well, the ground floor is actually – that's the parking, so everybody's up. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
So I don't want to get too concerned with what the future buildings might be and whether 2
they're going to be crammed up against all sides of this building because the reality is they can 3
only really come close to one side. So I think that Finding 3 is – can be made and should be 4
made consistent with what it states. It's focused on use, not structures, and I think we should 5
move this project forward to Council. 6
7
Chair Chang: Question for staff from Commissioner Summa. 8
9
Commissioner Summa: Thank you for that thought process, but I'm wondering – Commissioner 10
Hechtman – but I'm wondering if – it strikes me that the entrance from Encina to Town & 11
Country was largely because there was parking there. Does staff know if for fire purposes since 12
you can access it – Town & Country from 2 sides already, if that is a requirement to access it 13
from that side to have a road there? I'm just wondering if that's just a supposition or if it's… 14
15
Jennifer Armer: I think it's a reasonable supposition. However, if there were redevelopment of 16
any of those sites, a traffic circulation study would be required to ensure both for fire access 17
but also for transportation impacts and vehicle circulation on the site and from there to other 18
destinations would not be impacted if it was proposed to [inaudible 124:29]. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Summa: Sure. And I will note that there's a fourth entrance to Town & Country 1
at the end of the cul-de-sac. So… 2
3
Jennifer Armer: Yeah. Mm-hm. Yeah. So generally having multiple access points for a shopping 4
center of that size is something that's recommended, but without doing a separate study… 5
6
Commissioner Summa: Yeah. 7
8
Jennifer Armer: …we can't state more than that. 9
10
Commissioner Summa: Thank you. 11
12
Chair Chang: Commissioner Akin. Vice-Chair Akin. I will never get this right. 13
14
Vice-Chair Akin: Thank you, Chair. I commented earlier that I thought I could make the findings 15
and that was based on the interpretation that Commissioner Hechtman used, which is the 16
technical use of the word use here rather than project. And, yes, my interpretation was that the 17
uses would be compatible. But for the sake of argument, let's assume that it's the project that 18
matters. In that case, I might argue that what's likely to go in the other lots would probably also 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
be subject to the PC rules. So we could enforce a Conditional of Approval that there be 1
sufficient space around the building. Thank you. 2
3
Chair Chang: Yeah. I think that – so my comment on that is it sounds like there's the first-mover 4
advantage here, that essentially because somebody has decided the first person to do this has 5
decided that they want to build up within 7 inches of it and we decide that we want to allow 6
that, then the next person on the adjacent parcel, if they decide to also build housing, by both – 7
because of a Condition of Approval that we put in but really by fire code probably, they're going 8
– they're not going to be able to go to 7 inches. And so there's a fairness question there. I – 9
again, my view on this – before when the stated – the statement was this is going to be a 10
parking lot for the foreseeable future, it's very different from a property. And we have the – 11
neither property owner coming here and speaking to us saying but no, we don't want this. So 12
that's what I'm weighing also. And that's where I have a hard time. Is it the – the landscape and 13
context has changed. 14
15
Vice-Chair Akin: Pardon me for jumping in. Given that the other lots are significantly larger than 16
the parcels that we're talking about here, even if there is additional setback required on those 17
lots, do we think that's an imposition? 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Technically they're not larger. If you look at the way the parcels are drawn, they're 1
all the same. There's 2 parcels glued together and then 3 parcels to the right of it if you look at 2
Packet Page 39. And so who are we to decide that I think is what I'm saying. And I'm also 3
operating off of – Council's direction was please work this out with Town & Country. This is a 4
discretionary project. There's many good things about it, but please work it out with Town & 5
Country. So – and I'm hearing from Town & Country that this is not what they wanted. 6
Commissioner Peterson. 7
8
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. Quick question. So the way I understand it is we're allowed 9
to make this decision? 10
11
Jennifer Armer: You will be making a recommendation to Council, but it can be a 12
recommendation for approval, for denial, or for approval with additional modifications or 13
conditions. 14
15
Commissioner Peterson: Because I'm swayed that the current lot use probably is not going to 16
change and that the existing use of that space the way it is with the surrounding drive, that with 17
the current residence added on the adjacent lot doesn't change substantially the current 18
situation or impact the future use of the lot. So I wouldn't see a need to completely eliminate a 19
housing project simply based on a what if and a maybe about how the lot might be used when 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
it's never been used that way. That'd be an incredibly substantial reimagination of the use of 1
that land from its current use, and I would think there'd be just vastly more considerations that 2
would go into – go with that than one small housing project on the side. 3
4
Chair Chang: Okay. Seeing no other comments, let's vote. Ms. Dao? 5
6
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 7
8
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 9
10
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Ji? 11
12
Commissioner Ji: No. 13
14
Veronica Dao: Chair Chang? 15
16
Chair Chang: No. 17
18
Veronica Dao: Vice-Chair Akin? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Akin: Yes. 1
2
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Summa? 3
4
Commissioner Summa: No. 5
6
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Peterson? 7
8
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 9
10
Veronica Dao: Motion fails 3-3. 11
12
Chair Chang: In the case of a motion that fails 3-3, are we to speak to our no votes? 13
14
Jennifer Armer: You may. 15
16
Chair Chang: Okay. 17
18
Jennifer Armer: If you wish. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: So would anybody like to speak to their no votes? Go ahead, Commissioner 1
Summa. 2
3
Commissioner Summa: I just felt uncomfortable with making Finding 3, particularly since the 4
information on the page right after our staff report was – about 2 of the Comp Plan things was 5
not correct, in my opinion. And also I just – I feel very sympathetic to the applicant in this case 6
because so much work has gone into this, but I do think that as a standalone project it's 7
insufficient in ways that I'm uncomfortable with and that it is not compatible with the current 8
use, which is the only thing that isn't – the only real thing because the potential uses that have 9
been alluded to are dangled in front of us. I don't think that's fair to this applicant, but I'm still 10
uncomfortable with the circulation, the setbacks, and the lack of open space and calling the 11
courtyard interchangeably a courtyard and a driveway when we know it's a driveway. So I'm 12
very sorry to say that and – but those are my reasons. 13
14
Chair Chang: Do you have anything that you want to add? Go ahead, Commissioner Ji. 15
16
Commissioner Ji: Thank you, Chair. I'd like to echo many of the concerns of Commissioner 17
Summa. I'd also like to add that I'm extremely sympathetic specifically around the setbacks. As I 18
previously mentioned, I'm living near a project where they're potentially looking at adjusting 19
the setbacks as well, and 7 inches is extremely small. And I also would like to call out Policy L-20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
2.11 on Packet Page 48 that encourages new development to incorporate greenery. I would 1
love to see some more of that as well. And also on – in L-6.7, the staff report, as Commissioner 2
Summa previously mentioned, I don't think that the 25-foot setback is a fair statement here 3
given the discussion that we've had previously. Thank you. 4
5
Chair Chang: I'll just say that I have difficulty making Finding 3. And furthermore, I didn't see the 6
changes other than the bulb-out that – I didn't see the concerns adequately addressed that the 7
project has – aside from height, but that never came before us. It was always this current 8
height when it's come to the PTC. But the sort of concerns that we had were not addressed. 9
And I understand that there's a challenge given the size of the parcel, but I am hopeful that we 10
will see something much bigger and better and grander. I'm hoping for that, and we'll see. All 11
right. Thank you. Go… 12
13
Jennifer Armer: Through the Chair… 14
15
Chair Chang: Yes? 16
17
Jennifer Armer: We do need to have a motion to move this forward. It can be a split 18
recommendation. I'll look to Mr. Yang to confirm that, but we do need to have a vote that 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
passes to move this forward. As it – as I said, it can be a split recommendation since it appears 1
we're split 3 to 3. 2
3
Chair Chang: So Mr. Yang, can you provide some advice on this, please? We could do a split 4
recommendation. That seems to… 5
6
Albert Yang: Yes. 7
8
Chair Chang: …make sense. 9
10
Albert Yang: Yeah. So right now the Commission hasn't taken any action. 11
12
Chair Chang: Okay. 13
14
Albert Yang: So you do have to have a vote that passes affirmatively in some way, but – yeah. It 15
can be to send to the Council and hey, we are split evenly on this. 16
17
Chair Chang: Right. I would like to make that motion. I'm not quite sure how to state it, but I 18
would like to make the motion that we move this on to Council, letting Council know that we 19
are split on the staff recommendation. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Ji: I'll second. 2
3
Chair Chang: With the additions that Commissioner Hechtman made, which are good additions. 4
5
Commissioner Ji: I'll second that. 6
7
Chair Chang: Okay. Any discussion? Please call the vote, Ms. Dao. 8
9
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Peterson? 10
11
Commissioner Peterson: Yes. 12
13
Veronica Dao: Vice-Chair Akin? 14
15
Vice-Chair Akin: Yes. 16
17
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: No. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Ji? 2
3
Commissioner Ji: Yes. 4
5
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Summa? 6
7
Commissioner Summa: Yes. 8
9
Veronica Dao: Chair Chang? 10
11
Chair Chang: Yes. 12
13
Veronica Dao: Motion carries 5-1. 14
15
Chair Chang: Would you like to speak to your no vote, Commissioner Hechtman? 16
17
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. I don't know that it would have been successful, and I should 18
have raised it before the vote, but I was just wondering if we should have spent a little more 19
time dialoguing to see if some kind of consensus could have been built. It feels to me from the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
comments that I wasn't seeing a way to bridge the gap, and so I think this is the right move. But 1
the only reason I voted no is really to express that, it's very rare that this happens with us, that 2
we get these split votes, but when we do, we really deprive ourselves of the ability to imprint 3
the majority view on Council. So I would just say that as a general matter and this is the 4
exception, of course, we should be striving to find some consensus even if there are minority 5
votes involved. So that's it. 6
7
Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Hechtman. Commissioner Summa. 8
9
Commissioner Summa: I understand what Commissioner Hechtman is saying. It is kind of an – 10
there's a feeling of incompleteness. That said, we do want to move this along for the applicant 11
since Council is the decider on this. So I think that's a good outcome. 12
13
Chair Chang: Okay. That concludes this item. Before we move on to our third item of the night, 14
let's take a 10-minute break and we will see you soon. 15
16
Study Session 17
Public Comment is Permitted. Three (3) minutes per speaker. 18 19
4. Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan (BPTP) Update: Provide Feedback on 20
Draft Proposed Bicycle Network and Facilities, Pedestrian District Guidelines, and 21
Program and Policy Recommendations. 22
23
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Okay. Welcome back, everyone. We're going to move on to our next agenda item 1
which is a study session on the Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan Update. So we'll be 2
providing feedback on the Draft Proposed Bicycle Network and Facilities, Pedestrian District 3
Guidelines, and Program and Policy Recommendations. So could we have the staff 4
presentation, please? 5
6
Ozzy Arce: Yes. Hello. Good evening, Planning and Transportation Commissioners. My name is 7
Ozzy Arce, Senior Transportation Planner in the Office of Transportation. With me tonight, I 8
have Sylvia Star-Lack, the Transportation Planning Manager, and Nick from Mobycon, the 9
Project Consultant on this, along with Kittelson. I'll be brief. Nick will be providing the 10
presentation for tonight, but there is no action tonight. It's simply a study session. We are at a 11
key juncture in the bike and ped plan update, and this key juncture is presenting our 12
recommendations to the public including the updated Bicycle Network Map, the Facilities Map, 13
the Projects and Programs, and the Pedestrian District Guidelines. As you saw in your Packet, 14
there are several supplemental attachments as well that I encourage you all to review on your 15
own time. 16
17
Now the purpose of today is to simply present the information in an overview and answer any 18
initial questions and receive any initial feedback but don't feel like you need to provide all of 19
your comments today or have all your questions answered. You have until April 30, along with 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the public, to review the material and provide feedback, and in addition to that, I am welcome 1
to and happy to meet with any of you after and help answer some of your additional questions. 2
So just trying to set the stage for the presentation and on the recommendations tonight. Thank 3
you. 4
5
Nick Falbo: Hello Commissioners. Thank you for your time, [and we're 150:21] really excited to 6
share with you the progress and the recommendations on the Bicycle and Pedestrian 7
Transportation Plan Update. The purpose of t-, Ozzy has shared the purpose of today's meeting 8
to kind of share this information with you, let you get feedback on these early 9
recommendations as we continue to go out to the public and share and get feedback from the 10
public at large. 11
12
This project has been going on for over a year at this point starting in early days of last y-, the 13
end of last year with – of '23 with the introduction and visioning, learning about the vision, 14
setting the tone for the project, what are the goals of this update as we seek to bring things 15
into modern standards for our bicycle and pedestrian transportation system. We learned about 16
existing conditions doing analysis on the level of traffic stress, understanding potential 17
performance measures to monitor our progress on this effort. And we're leading now into 18
sharing our recommendations, our bicycle network, our bicycle facilities, and our pedestrian 19
district and toolbox. We plan on having the plan finished for kind of the end of the year, and 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
we're really excited to incorporate the feedback that we're learning from you here tonight as 1
well as from other engagement activities that we're conducting. 2
3
The plan sets a high bar for vision of a safe, sustainable, efficient, equitable, and enjoyable 4
transportation system, really striving to hit a goal of serving people walking and biking of all 5
ages and abilities. The objectives of our project are to be safe and inclusive, connected and 6
accessible, community led and cooperative, comfortable and enjoyable, integrated and 7
collaborative. And this objective framework guides our work when it comes to performance 8
measures, our plans, our programs, and it's something that we keep in the back of our heads 9
whenever we're making our recommendations for bicycle network changes and bicycle 10
facilities. 11
12
A lot of the material that we've provided you today is a – revolves around the bicycle network 13
and our updates proposed here. [I'm going to 152:43] share with you a little bit of how we kind 14
of got to our recommendations and where we've landed. The project itself starts from the 2012 15
plan which is the current plan that's in action today. That is the foundation of the plan, and 16
we're trying to make adjustments to it as we update it. We have cross-referenced additional 17
plans that have been done since then, so it includes projects that have been built incorporated 18
into the new network, analysis of safety from our high-injury network from other ongoing 19
safety efforts, suggested walk and roll routes for access through neighborhoods, and other 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
regional planning efforts from MTC and other efforts from the State from Caltrans to 1
incorporate their efforts and their networks into our system as well. 2
3
The proposal includes sort of 2 designations at this point. We have bikeways. These are street 4
corridors including trails that are enhanced to support bicycling. They connect to form the City's 5
bikeway network and are intended to serve high volumes of bicycle traffic to provide direct, 6
seamless, efficient travel across the City. We also have a proposal for bicycle-friendly zones. 7
These are cohesive areas with concentrations of destinations and commercial activity and high 8
levels of pedestrian activity, and we want to see these areas have investments across the whole 9
zone in terms of bicycle-friendly amenities, things like adjusted signal timing, bike parking, and 10
traffic calming. 11
12
This is the proposal we have for our Draft Updated Bike Network. You see a interconnected 13
network of these bikeways crossing our city, and you can see the 2 bicycle-friendly zones in the 14
University Ave District and the Cal Ave District. We did make some changes from the 2012 plan. 15
There's a few corridors added. You can see those in purple on the screen, as well as a few 16
corridors removed in an effort to create more clarity in the network. Maybe one area where 17
most notably some changes were done is in that University Avenue area – district where the 18
bicycle-friendly zones have sort of taken over in terms of providing a high-quality biking 19
experience in that area holistically. In this case, you can see maybe notable also is Alma Street 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
removed from the network in favor of the parallel routes that exist on Bryant Street and Park as 1
bike boulevards. 2
3
In addition to just identifying the network of bikeways and streets that we are putting bikeways 4
on, we do then identify what kinds of changes go onto these bikeways. So not all streets are the 5
same. You'll notice on that we have some neighborhood streets, we have some busier streets. 6
The plan identifies a series of different types of infrastructure to go onto those streets to create 7
that safe, comfortable experience for users of all ages and abilities. We recommend a simplified 8
set of facilities including but more foundationally bike boulevards, bike lanes sometimes with 9
buffers, protected bike lanes, and shared-use paths. So just some examples of what those look 10
like. Bike boulevards, which are – Palo Alto is known as actually the origins of bicycle 11
boulevards in the US, our streets that are designed to prioritize bicycles and pedestrians with 12
features to reduce vehicle speeds and limit motor vehicle traffic volumes. 13
14
Bicycle lanes are dedicated spaces painted and demarcated for bicycle use separate from motor 15
vehicle traffic. You need something like this to give people a place to ride that is safe when it is 16
– when traffic volumes are higher and traffic speeds are higher. And then as you get into those 17
busy streets – those really busy streets – we start getting into protected bike lanes. These are 18
bike lanes that have a physically separated buffer from motor vehicle traffic, some sort of 19
vertical element. How they get built, what they look like, it depends on the level of investment. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
And there's examples across – examples here in Palo Alto actually of different levels of 1
investment – but some sort of vertical element making you feel safer and more comfortable 2
when riding next to heavy traffic. And, of course, there's shared-used paths, pathways that are 3
separate from the road network, independent rights-of-way shared between people walking 4
and people biking. 5
6
We select what type of facility gets chosen based on the conditions of the traffic. There are 7
national guidelines for how much traffic with traffic volume you need to – what traffic volume 8
is comfortable with different facilities as well as what traffic speed is comfortable with different 9
facilities. And we use that to identify which streets should be bike boulevards, which streets 10
should have bike lanes, maybe buffered bike lanes and protected bike lanes. And so we apply 11
that to the network and you end up with this bicycle facilities map. Each color represents a 12
different facility type, and those dotted lines represent changes to the network that we have 13
today so that those have become future investments in order to build out this proposed 14
network. 15
16
Big changes from 2012 here include embracing the large streets. So you'll notice big streets like 17
San Antonio are included on this with separated bike lane facilities to create more comfortable 18
conditions. The 2012 plan recommended just markings on the road, essentially leaving it as a 19
busy traffic street. We also have increased comfort across the board with stricter application of 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
those facility thresholds, trying to raise the bar of what is expected of our streets, raising the 1
bar in terms of what is on a bicycle boulevard street, for example, to make sure that we have 2
lower volumes and lower speeds. And the network also fills gaps and missing links, trying to 3
kind of offer more door-to-door connections between facilities that exist today and new 4
facilities proposed in the future. 5
6
There's a series of project lists that come with this proposal, over 120 different projects of 7
various different types, all the different facility types. They're organized by facility type. We also 8
include a series of crossing projects, projects to make connections and crossings on the bike 9
network more comfortable and safer, and 7 different studies and special projects, other 10
projects that are not just infrastructure projects but instead allow us to [inaudible 159:39] 11
either certain special topics or pursue other citywide initiatives. 12
13
The plan is not just about the bicycle network; it is also focused on pedestrian interests. We 14
have a section in the plan that is focused on pedestrian districts and a pedestrian toolbox. 15
There are 5 different areas identified in the plan, 2 pedestrian districts, the University Ave 16
District, the California Ave District, and 3 neighborhood commercial centers which is the 17
Embarcadero Neighborhood Commercial Center, Midtown District, and El Camino Real 18
Neighborhood Commercial Center. For each of these different areas, we have a series of 19
potential tools to be applied. This is a pedestrian toolbox that includes enhanced crossings, 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
reconfigurations of streets, adjustments to signals, more aesthetic treatments like decorative 1
lighting, and other adjustments to things like major streets. These – this toolbox is pretty broad, 2
and we've started off in each district recommending potential application of these tools along 3
with some special projects for each district to help enhance the pedestrian environment, safety, 4
and comfort. 5
6
The plan also goes beyond infrastructure, focusing on programs and policy recommendations. 7
These are citywide initiatives that can affect how we do business, how we work with our 8
partners in the neighborhood, in our community, and our other jurisdictional partners. We have 9
programs that institutionalize safety in current City practices, elevating bi-, pedestrian and 10
bicycle priorities, and introducing new programs for implementation. We've got programs that 11
go beyond just those individual projects focused on investments in our infrastructure across the 12
City looking at, for example, signal modifications or how we go about building infrastructure 13
citywide. We have programs that build community, that work with businesses, and involve 14
neighbors in the work that we do. And we have efforts to make walking and biking more 15
convenient, useful, and enjoyable. And then finally, we have a series of projects and programs 16
that are focused on coordination across City departments and our other regional jurisdictions 17
to offer more holistic solutions to our community. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
The project itself has gone through in Phase 3 engagement a series of meetings with the 1
Pedestrian and Bicycle Committee. We will be meeting with the Parks and Recreation 2
Commission, we are meeting tonight with you here on the Planning and Transportation 3
Commission, and we're excited to have a community workshop in early April at Mitchell Park 4
Community Center to discuss this plan in more detail with the public at large. And we have 5
ongoing meetings and focus groups with other stakeholders as we bring this into the next 6
round of work. 7
8
Feedback is welcome through April 30 in this round of public engagement, and we're excited to 9
hear more from the public and hear more from you as we refine this work and bring it into a 10
final plan later this year. Thank you. 11
12
Chair Chang: Any clarifying questions? I see one from Commissioner Peterson. 13
14
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you. Thank you for your presentation. It was informative. As far 15
as I'm concerned, this might be one of the more – maybe the most important issue in the City 16
because it protects our kids. And I have 3 kids. The bikeways – our kids are guaranteed that's 17
where they're going to be. So I have a clarifying question. In our feedback, how much 18
imagination are we able to have on imagining new bikeways or connecting bikeways? How 19
much feedback do you want, or you just kind of want feedback on what you presented us? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ozzy Arce: We definitely want feedback on any ideas you have, even some that are visionary. 2
[We know 164:03] the last time we did this was in 2012, so there – it's not very often that we 3
get to do this and so this would be the opportunity to provide those recommendations. And it 4
doesn't have to be now in this moment but in this process. 5
6
Commissioner Peterson: So the big idea I'm trying to – I'll throw a big idea out there and then 7
I'll be there April 2 with maybe more ideas – is there's 2 locations that to me are clear issues. 8
One of them I think isn't really recognized, and that's the connection – the pathway along the 9
railroad tracks from Palo Alto High School over to California Avenue. I don't know why that 10
section's missing. I'm assuming it's probably there's a property line or something that's too 11
close to the railroad tracks, but I'm pretty sure there's probably a way of getting a walkway and 12
bypassing whichever property is in – preventing a walkway there becau-, and the reason why 13
this is important is the other day I walked to the end of California Avenue. I never walked to the 14
end of California Avenue. And I was standing there with my daughter going why don't we ever 15
walk down here, and she says – she was [inaudible 165:06] – she says because it's a dead end. 16
She's like I'm lucky I don't [just get 165:09] run over by a car right now. And there's a chain link 17
fence and it's locked, and it looks like there'd be a pathway going back to towards Paly. So if 18
there was a walkway down there, it would bring people down to that dead end of California 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Avenue where the train station is. I'm there all the time, but from that location it's just maybe 1
people turn around there. 2
3
And I think it would help with the businesses because a lot of the businesses on Cal Avenue that 4
are down towards that end, they say they feel like they're forgotten because they're not within 5
that kind of closed area and they want to find a reason for people to walk down there. And if 6
you walk down to the end of the street and it's not a dead end, you actually have an outlet 7
where you can go. And then from the train station if you go south – I'm always confused which 8
way directions are in Palo Alto but what seems like would be south – you go through the 9
Caltrain station, you can go over Page Mill Road and you can go all the way to Mountain View if 10
you want. Once you're – and it's just that one section that's missing. So I think that's the big 11
idea I have is to make those connections – to connect North Palo Alto with South Palo Alto with 12
that one little piece that's missing. 13
14
And then the other one I just want to reiterate is always that El Camino and California Avenue – 15
which I just knows it's because of – I think it's Caltrans and their traffic signals and the turn lane 16
and things like that – it's just absolutely dangerous there. A car didn't clip my daughter, but she 17
said it brushed against her. I've had cars honk at me. It's – I wait and I count to 3 before I walk 18
out into that intersection every time. So anything you can do for that intersection on El Camino 19
and Cal Ave. Thank you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Commissioner Akin? 2
3
Vice-Chair Akin: Thank you, Chair. I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page and 4
that our expectations as Commissioners and perhaps expectations of other people who are 5
listening are correct. So what we have before us tonight is a conceptual plan. It's not a 6
commitment that every project and program that's listed definitely will be executed. In fact, 7
some of the projects actually say that explicitly. For example, we don't know whether we can 8
support a full bikeway on Embarcadero until we complete the Embarcadero Road Corridor 9
Study. So some of these things are still to be worked out. So is that a fair statement of what 10
we're looking at tonight? 11
12
Ozzy Arce: Yes. Eventually as a part of the draft plan, we will go through a prioritization 13
exercise. I believe Attachment E, the supplemental, includes the prioritization framework 14
memo. So we will have a ranked list for the plan, but yes, at the project level after the plan 15
adoption is when we further analyze the feasibility of that project. 16
17
Vice-Chair Akin: Great. Thank you. Ms. Star-Lack? 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Sylvia Star-Lack: Sorry. I just want to add one more thing. Part of the reason why we do bike 1
plans is so that we can be eligible to apply for funding to study and see if these projects are 2
feasible. So that's why we throw a bunch of things in there to make them eligible to receive 3
funding. Thanks. 4
5
Vice-Chair Akin: Good point. Thank you. 6
7
PUBLIC COMMENTS 8
9
Chair Chang: Seeing no other clarifying questions from the Commission, I wanted to go to public 10
comment, but I – do we have any comment cards? And I don't see anybody online with their 11
hands raised. 12
13
Veronica Dao: Correct. I don't have any cards and I don't see any raised hands. 14
15
Chair Chang: Okay. Then let's just open it up for broader Commissioner – how do we want to do 16
this, folks? Do you want to just start by asking some questions first? First round with questions 17
and then some comments? 18
19
Commissioner Summa: Comments and questions. 20
21
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Comments and questions together. All right. We're doing comments and 1
questions together. Go ahead, Commissioner Hechtman. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. And thanks for the report and all the work. It's really 4
exciting to start to see this vision of a safer Palo Alto for our bicyclists and pedestrians. And 5
honestly, I’ll say as my overview, it's kind of overwhelming to me. I don't know how many hours 6
you’ve had to spend, but the detail here is extraordinary. And every block counts and you're 7
studying all of them. So I commend you for that, but it also makes me feel a little bit like well, 8
who am I to pick at that because I don’t have even the focus on one block much less the 9
comprehensive view that you're required to take in looking at this citywide. So I'm really not 10
going to have a lot of substantive comments other than to encourage you to keep at it. I did 11
have a couple of sort of help me understand this questions, and I'm looking at Packet Page 116. 12
It's the Recommended Bicycle Facilities Map. 13
14
Chair Chang: And Commissioners, we have that in color. 15
16
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. 17
18
Chair Chang: So that's – might be easier version to look at. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. You'll need it in color because it's really hard to see it on – 1
what I'm going to ask can’t be seen in the black and white. And so let me just – there are a few 2
instances of this, but let me take you to where Embarcadero crosses 101. And there are some 3
paths that are 2 tone. And so for example, there's one that's going from Embarcadero up to the 4
East Palo Alto border, and that one it looks to me like it's blue on yellow or yellow on blue. And 5
I think what that means is there's something there existing but what's proposed is an upgrade 6
where you have the 2 tones. Is that what that means? 7
8
Nick Falbo: Correct. Yeah. This map is trying to do a lot on one sheet. There are – there's sort of 9
a solid line that exists – sort of a faded color usually. That is what is on the ground today. And 10
then if there is a proposal for a change, it appears in a dotted line on top of that. So you can see 11
both – that street you're mentioning is a yellow line. Below it is a shared roadway today. 12
There's a marking in the lane that says bicyclists should travel in the lane, and what it proposes 13
is a bike lane, so they'll be – would be a proposal for a designated space for bicyclists separate 14
from the roadway. So it's meant to show that, yes, this is upgrading from what is a higher-stress 15
condition today to a lower-stress condition in the future. 16
17
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. Thank you for that clarification. And then the only 18
other question –we have 2 bike bridges in Palo Alto, Oregon Expressway area and near San 19
Antonio. And I see those on the bike network update page, Packet Page 115. I don't see them 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
on Packet Page 116, and I was wondering is that just because they're existing? There's no 1
change proposed to them and so they're not showing up there, or should they show up there? 2
3
Nick Falbo: It does look like it sh-, they should show up there. 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 6
7
Nick Falbo: [And they maybe are 172:56] missing on that map. 8
9
Commissioner Hechtman: That's all I have. Thank you. 10
11
Nick Falbo: Thank you. 12
13
Chair Chang: Commissioner Akin. Vice-Chair Akin. 14
15
Vice-Chair Akin: I felt I would wait for others to ask, but since we're not beating down the 16
doors, I'll go through my list. And I have a fair number of comments. Yeah. The amount of 17
material here is just massive, so it's difficult to absorb. I'm sure I didn't get it all, but it's great 18
and I think it's going to be widely supported when people understand what's here. So thank 19
you. The project lists are tremendously helpful in translating the principles into the realities, so 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
that's a good presentation tool. I really like the pedestrian district guidelines just as they are. 1
They're really nicely done, so I'm going to concentrate most of my comments on the bike 2
facilities, but please don't take that as having any dissatisfaction with the pedestrian district 3
work. That's good stuff. 4
5
So the context I always try and keep in mind for these transportation issues is that we're 6
planning for population to increase substantially, and yet the best analyses we have today like 7
the Housing Element Supplement for the Comp Plan EIR suggests the VMT per capita is going to 8
stay roughly the same. So that implies we're going to be dealing with a lot more vehicle volume, 9
both local origin-destination and cut-through. And what we're planning here means that a lot of 10
that is going to have to be in mixed-mode situations. So I'm trying to keep an eye on that all the 11
time. And it worries me that developing a bicycle network in isolation given that context might 12
be just as much a mistake as developing the vehicle network in isolation was, particularly if we 13
do something that might create new zones of conflict. So that's where I'm coming from. As an 14
example, we've got protected and bike – and buffered bikeway proposals all over including the 15
big streets, as you noted. And some of those are going to require loss or narrowing of vehicle 16
lanes and parking, so that means things are going to move around. And if we were discussing 17
this as projects to be evaluated, then I would want to talk a lot more about modeling so we 18
could see what the effects of those were going to be. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
But nevertheless, I can make one big ask about modeling when that comes up. Cumulative 1
effects tend to drop below the level of significance when the analysis is done one project at a 2
time. So I think as a resident – a longtime resident – we all see that negative effects are 3
cumulative. So I am hopeful that we can find a way to at least improve our understanding in 4
what those effects might be. So the big ask is that when we do get to the point where we're 5
modeling things – where we're modeling traffic flows for all modes, that we do it by area, not 6
by project so that if we can cover all of the projects that are likely to have significant effects in a 7
given area at one time, then perhaps we can be a little more fiscally efficient, but more 8
importantly, we can have a better sense of what the overall impact on traffic flows is going to 9
be. I think if you chose to do that, that would require a change in the way that you've organized 10
some of the projects. So that's the concrete impact on what you're proposing here, is that you 11
might have to look at those and say if I were going to have to model this, would I mind some 12
subprojects in order to create a single larger project that addressed that kind of issue. So that's 13
the big ask. 14
15
And just an observation. Same kind of problem applies to the street closures around schools. So 16
that also needs to be area oriented. So my kids went to Addison. I live close to Middlefield, so I 17
think about what the relationship is around Addison and [Hayes 178:01]. You don't want to do 18
those 2 things separately. You want to do – you want to consider them together somehow. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
And finally, my last comment has to do with some touchy language in the policy and program 1
recommendations. So this is on Packet Page 146 which talks about decriminalizing walking and 2
biking and the walking and biking infractions. So I already hear a lot of complaints about cyclists 3
violating the rules of the road. And I saw a guy on Middlefield bike full speed against the lights 4
across Oregon the other day, which scared me to death. So I don't think we want to – we don't 5
want to normalize that kind of behavior, and we want to have the option for enforcement from 6
time to time. So I like the conceptual framework that's in the Safe Streets principles as a good 7
way to express that. Responsibility is shared. Redundancy is crucial. Education is required. So I'd 8
like to see that our policies are consistent with those principles. I think they are well stated. I 9
think that's all I've got on my list. Thank you very much. 10
11
Chair Chang: Commissioner Summa. 12
13
Commissioner Summa: Thank you. Thank you for all this work. Yeah. It's a ton of information, 14
and though I am a very brave and intrepid pedestrian, I do not ride a bike on the streets of Palo 15
Alto. But I had a couple questions about the 2 maps, and one is – and thank you, Commissioner 16
Hechtman, for clarifying that. I was trying – but this map – I understand you putting an awful lot 17
in here, but it's visually pretty hard to see some of the colors just on top of the dots. Some are 18
easier – some have more difference in – they're more dis-, you know what I mean. So I think 19
this map needs a little bit of work to make it easier to use. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
And then the green map which is the bicycle network. I feel like if somebody was visiting Palo 2
Alto and they had this map, they would interpret that to mean all these streets have some 3
degree of bicycle path on them, which they don't. This is just all the big streets basically. So I 4
don't know if there's a w-, I don't know if other people would have that reaction, but I don't 5
think you want somebody at this point – though we have high hopes for Embarcadero – I don't 6
think you'd want somebody who is not familiar with Palo Alto to go there and think there was 7
going to be some sort of safe bike lane there. So it is a network because it's a network of 8
arterial and collector streets, but not all of them have bike enhancements on them. So that was 9
concerning to me. 10
11
I also – I think that the project list should be more featured in – as a – in a – even though there's 12
so much here, you want to make sure everybody takes a look at that, and not everybody's going 13
to look at those attachments. And I agree with Commissioner Akin that decriminalizing – there 14
m-, there's certain things that we would want to decriminalize like where you – leaving your 15
biked par-, attached to something it's not supposed to be. But given the rise in personal 16
mobility devices, especially the electric ones, I don't think we would want to decriminalize or 17
disincent safety. And as much as vehicles are a horrible safety hazard for bikes, bikes and 18
electric things are a safety hazard for people, and I would like to – well, they're a safety hazard 19
for people using them too because too many people use them without a helmet, which is kind 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
of crazy considering how fast they can go. And I noticed there's a – there just seems to be an 1
ever-increasing zooming about of pretty young kids on very fast electric vehicles, and I don't 2
know what we can do about that because it's an issue that their parents really are in control of, 3
but it strikes me as a problem. I've also seen a group of – I've seen this group of kids a couple of 4
times on El Camino on the weekends. It's like 9 to 11 kids on those kind of small maneuverable 5
bikes, not electric, taking 2 lanes and weaving in and out of each other. And I would want to 6
have a police officer stop them and talk to them to get them to not do that anymore because 7
it's so dangerous. 8
9
And so those are some of the things I was thinking [of maps projects 183:46]. And then there 10
were just some areas that I know you m-, I did have a question about the pedestrian zones of – 11
and that is that 2 of them are on the network map and the oth-, there's 2 others that aren't, the 12
Midtown Pedestrian District and then the El Camino District which is near El Camino Way. Are 13
those not pedes-, are those not the same as pedestrian districts or are they? And… 14
15
Nick Falbo: As currently proposed here, they are slightly different. So… 16
17
Commissioner Summa: Okay. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Nick Falbo: …the University Ave District and Cal Ave District are proposed as pedestrian districts 1
and as what we're calling bicycle-friendly zones, and the other neighborhood commercial 2
centers are pedestrian districts but not on the bicycle-friendly zone map. So there – we do have 3
a distinction there but open to hearing maybe it should be a little bit different. 4
5
Commissioner Summa: So I wasn't sure about it, so I don't think I have a recommendation at 6
this point except for it's – I think it's nice to have special features in those areas. I'm not sure 7
why we wouldn't want to try to do that in Midtown. And the El Camino Way – that street is a 8
hot mess in terms of parking – sorry – and bicycle safety. So I would want to really tr-, I also 9
think it's really dangerous to ride your bike in downtown Palo Alto because the streets are very 10
narrow and there's so many – I don't know. But I would maybe want to prioritize doing 11
something on El Camino Way because I think we need more – we need to do something about 12
that and I have – I'm sure you'll figure it out. I have no idea what to do there. 13
14
And then I had a few other on maps, sort of little hotspots. And in as much as having 15
enforcement of vehicle – especially red light – running red lights, this is becoming an ever-16
increasing problem. I really have to t-, I really can't assume that anyone is going to stop at 17
either El Camino – because I also live right near – and California Avenue or Cambridge and 18
California Avenue. And I think there's a specific problem with the light at Cambridge for 19
northbound and the red light running is northbound. It is almost – it is every week I see it. And 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
since I live on the other side of El Camino, I often cross at both those places. I don't know if you 1
can get any police presence there to just start ticketing. It's seriously every week, and some – 2
eventually someone will get killed. I hope it's not anyone I know or me, but I don't even anyone 3
killed there. 4
5
And then – so I think these – some of these things I think [you'd 187:01] be aware of and some 6
of them you're probably already working on, but they're kind of hotspots that need – have had 7
a lot of concern for residents. And one is – which we already talked to – about tonight, which is 8
the condo at 440 – how do you say that street – Chesan-, Chesano? 9
10
Vice-Chair Akin: Cesano. 11
12
Commissioner Summa: Cesano. I don't know why I can't get that straight. It's because I speak 13
Italian I think. I keep wanting to make [inaudible 187.32]. Sorry. Cesano. I think you have 14
already tried to deal with the City of Mountain View because that bike lane that ends that – and 15
all it nee-, all anybody really needs to do is remove the fence that's behind the hotel on 16
Mountain View. And I don't know if there's any way we can pursue that and I – because I think 17
anytime we have these connections that are off of El Camino and a little bit safer, they're very 18
desirable. So I don't know if you can pursue that. There's constant problem with the bridge that 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
does go south there with it being too slippery when it's wet, which I think you're addressing 1
right now with a study. 2
3
There's the ever-present problem of the Ross Road traffic circle, and now I've heard, though I 4
haven't been there, that it's recently become a 4-way stop again. So it might – we might want 5
to consider removing the traffic circle there or making it much smaller – a device in the middle 6
of the street. That traf-, I live right on a traffic circle at Cambridge and Yale in College Terrace, 7
so I have a lot of – and I was on that – the traffic calming group that worked with the City, so I 8
have a lot of familiarity with traffic circles since I have one right in front of my driveway 9
basically. And that traffic circle never worked at all, the one on Ross Road. I think it was too big. 10
And so maybe we don't need it. And it has been terribly unpopular, and I would recommend 11
considering that. I don't know if that's a possibility. 12
13
And then when you're on the bike lane – but this is even a problem as a pedestrian – when 14
you're coming up Park Boulevard and then you get to the Southgate neighborhood, the natural 15
inclination is to continue right on – I think it's Madrono – no, on Mariposa. So it's the closest 16
way to continue north, and then you end up at Mariposa and Churchill and you can't cross 17
there. It's so close to the tracks; it would be very dangerous to cross there. I think it behooves 18
us – and I think actually I would like this along the whole Park Boulevard bicycle path – better 19
signage because it's not connected very clearly. But I think there at Mariposa, I've seen bikes 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
crossing there and people crossing there as pedestrians just because they get there and they 1
want to get to the other side presumably to our lovely bike path, and they don't know exactly 2
what to do. So I think a small sign at Mariposa and Park Boulevard right when you're entering 3
Southgate and one maybe at – also at Churchill would be useful. 4
5
And my last hotspot is we've had a lot of letters in the last year or so from people in the biking 6
community who feel that the connections at the north end of Palo Alto where Alma meets El 7
Camino and there's a park there – El Camino Park – that that needs to be fixed. And I know 8
that's a very complicated intersection, but maybe that's worth looking into if you're already not 9
because we've had a lot of letters or enough about that. 10
11
And then finally I would say we have ha-, we have some really great members of the public. We 12
had a letter today from a member of the public, Mr. [Joy 191:12], and he has very – he's a big 13
bicyclist. I'm sure you all know him. He has very specific ideas. He's very devoted to this – so I'm 14
just – I'm sure you were planning on doing this. That's why you're having all the workshops, but 15
really listen to those really experienced bikers in our community. So that's it for now. 16
17
Chair Chang: Thank you. Now we've got Commissioner Ji and then Commissioner Peterson. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Ji: I just want to say, like everyone else, thank you so much for your work on this 1
project. I myself am an avid biker. I grew up here in Palo Alto. I biked to school since I was in 2
kindergarten up until today. So lots of experience both biking as a child, biking as adult. I'm also 3
now driving around these neighborhoods and I'm very, very, very excited about lots of the 4
updates here. And I also have a lot of comments, so please bear with me. So first, I just actually 5
want to ask some of the definitional descriptions here. So what actually defines a bike 6
boulevard? 7
8
Nick Falbo: We've been getting that question actually quite a bit in some of our conversations 9
with folks. It's interesting. Palo Alto is the birthplace of the bike boulevard through Bryant 10
Street back in 1982, I believe it was. Sort of late '70s ideas and early '80s implementation. 11
Bicycle boulevards are a recognized bicycle facility by – at the federal level [inaudible 192:50] 12
bicycle planning, and they are low-speed, low-volume streets, often local neighborhood streets 13
that have been designed to be safe and quiet places where bicycling is prioritized. And that 14
includes usually treatments – engineering treatments to make speeds slow, to bring speeds 15
down around 20 miles an hour. That includes engineering treatments to limit traffic volume on 16
these streets so that they cannot be used as cut-through routes. You see that on the Bryant 17
bike boulevard. It includes treatments to make crossing streets easier and safer – crossing busy 18
streets – and it usually involves treatments for wayfinding identification so you know you're on 19
that street because you see a clear marking or a nice sign that helps you follow along. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Ji: And then can you compare that with a bike route? 2
3
Nick Falbo: So bike routes tends to be – it is like a bike boulevard. You're riding in the street 4
sharing it with cars, but bike routes have no such expectations in terms of really – in terms of 5
speed and motor vehicle volumes. 6
7
Commissioner Ji: So the reason I just asked this is just because I feel like everyone here can 8
probably agree with what a bike lane is, and I just want to make sure for members of the public 9
and also those on the Commission about what these different definitions are because you're 10
looking at 7 different criteria. There's just a lot to process there. 11
12
And then I th-, I – I'm just going to kind of start from the top and go down with some of my 13
comments. So I know that you had mentioned embracing big streets as one of the top- 14
mentioned topics from your presentation, but for me personally, I'm looking at this bike 15
network update and I don't think I would – I would strongly recommend never biking on a big 16
street. And I don't think – that's maybe just because I know what it formerly was. So for 17
example, I know that we've recently repaved El Camino, but I still probably would never bike 18
there because when I was a child biking there it was very dangerous. And I think that for me 19
personally, if possible, I would always avoid the large street. So for example, Park is only 3 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
blocks away from El Camino. I think 99 times out of 100 I would be taking Park instead of El 1
Camino given that they're parallel for the entire pathway through Palo Alto. 2
3
And I also want to ask [for 195:16] clarification about some of the work here on Packet Page 4
116, the colored map, about Oregon Expressway. Is this Oregon Expressway or Oregon Avenue, 5
the side [passby 195:28] street? 6
7
Nick Falbo: This is illustrating – you'll see on that map a dashed green line. That is Oregon 8
Expressway and that is a – included here as a project that the County is advancing and 9
proposing. So we have included it here to include it in the overall network. There is a segment 10
of the Oregon Avenue that – farther on the east side that connects to the overcrossing, and so 11
that is shown here as well as that extension to the overcrossing. 12
13
Commissioner Ji: Thank you. I just kind of reiterate my original comment which is personally I 14
would like to see more prioritization on smaller streets. I think it's just collectively s-, when 15
people talk about separated bikeway, why not just separate them onto a completely different 16
street? That's my personal preference on that, especially – there's a bunch of other 17
considerations such as pollution. I have a friend who takes the bus on El Camino, and the 7-18
minute walk he does on El Camino back to his house, he'll wipe his face and it will be 19
completely covered in grease. I have no interest in biking on such a busy motorway such as 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Oregon Expressway or El Camino. Next – and also I just want to mention that one of the topics 1
that we are focusing on for bikers is comfort, and so again, I would like to see separation of 2
bikes onto other streets. 3
4
Next, I want to talk about blockers for biking. So I live – well, I guess I wi-, I live on a futurely 5
proposed bike boulevard on Wilkie Way, and I want to talk a little bit about my lived experience 6
biking on El Camino Way as well as on Park and other places. And I think that there are great 7
amenities right now. For example, there are bike lanes on both the places I've mentioned, but 8
there are also other blockages. So for example, with the removal of parking on El Camino Real, 9
we've actually seen in the Ventura neighborhood that those RVs move into the neighborhood, 10
specifically on Park. So if you are biking on Park, you think hypothetically that there is a bike 11
lane, but there is an RV parked there 24/7. So the lived experience of a biker trying to bike on 12
Park is weaving in and out of those RVs. And in addition, there accumulates a lot of other issues 13
and kind of garbage around there because there isn't any street cleaning possible. The street 14
cleaners can't be cleaning through those streets if the RVs aren't ever moving. So would love to 15
see some work there. 16
17
And in addition, on El Camino Way I guess coming from El Camino Real towards Meadow on the 18
Los Robles side, there is a sign that says that it's only for commercial parking between 7 a.m. 19
and 7 p.m. As previous Commissioners have mentioned, it is a – completely parked, that whole 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
area. And we see people illegally parking in the bike lane there as well, especially around times 1
when kids come back from school. It's – I find it incredibly dangerous. In fact, there are 2
sometimes like 5 kids at a time biking [inaudible 198:33] that even go past the median. And so 3
they'll go onto the oncoming traffic as well, which I am pretty worried about. 4
5
I want to echo Commissioner Akin's comment about the pedestrian toolbox. I think it's great. I'd 6
love to see something concrete like that for bikes. I think previously you mentioned a couple 7
minutes ago about the fact that bike boulevards don't have specific kind of amenities that we 8
can provide, but why not let's make that formalized and take a look to see what does that 9
actually mean? Does that mean, for example, speed bumps or slow streets or other bollards or 10
modal filtering or any kind of context on that? So I just want to also mention that I do have a 11
background a little bit in collision mapping and collision data, so I'm a little bit of a – have a little 12
bit of expertise there as well. So pardon me if I use a little bit of terminology. The Commission 13
can stop me if they have any questions about that. 14
15
And then one of the other things I wanted to mention is around modal filtering, which is when 16
you provide something like a bollard to prevent other types of vehicles. So I believe you 17
mentioned previously that's what we have on Bryant and we ha-, part of the reason why I enjoy 18
biking on Bryant is because cars don't like it because you'll go 2 blocks and then see a bollard 19
and then go another 2 blocks and see a bollard. And we see that pretty common on Park as 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
well, and that's why I will use Park. But kind of like you mentioned, we don’t want cars to go 1
there. And from my experience both living in the Ventura neighborhood as well as from my 2
neighbors, there seem to be a lot of cars that are directed by Waze to go on Park, especially 3
from Meadow to Margarita. Th-, it's quite a bit of a stretch if you want to avoid the El Camino 4
traffic that's been redirected, and so I'd like to see some additional modal filtering potentially 5
there. I think that's a prime candidate. Specifically, one of my neighbors mentioned that 6
Ventura Avenue is the most – is the widest of those streets there. So if adding something to 7
block – for the other side streets in the Ventura neighborhood, I think adding modal filtering 8
[before there 200:38] would be good as well. 9
10
My next comment is regarding rail crossings. So looking at the map here, I believe there are 11
significantly more rail crossings in North Palo Alto than South Palo Alto. Right now, there are no 12
easy ways to cross the train tracks between Cal Ave and Meadow, and that's pr-, really 13
significant compared to the number of crossings you see in North Palo Alto at University, at 14
Homer, at Embarcadero, Churchill, etc. So I know that th-, I took a look into the project plan and 15
saw that there are projects planned for South Palo Alto in the studies, but I'd like to see those 16
prioritized. Specifically, one that my neighbors have mentioned is regarding a crossing at Loma 17
Verde. I think that's a pretty prime candidate given that it is a strong thoroughfare from both 18
sides of the railroad track. And I'll defer to staff on potentially other places as well for crossings 19
there. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
I also want to talk about some of the modeling that is done on where the network should be 2
extended. It looks like South Palo Alto, based on our Housing Element, will be expanding 3
significant in population, and I'd like to have that considered when looking into the modeling 4
for each of these different projects. And then, as Commissioner Summa already mentioned, I 5
use that Wilkie bridge because I live on Wilkie, and I'd like to – I am excited for the work that 6
the staff is doing there. 7
8
Since I also live on a potential bike boulevard and I've been hearing a lot of the concerns about 9
the – some of the projects on Ross, I encourage working with specific neighbors in the 10
neighborhood, not just having general [community days 202:23]. But say hey, if I'm going to do 11
something to, let's say, Park Boulevard, getting people or working directly in the neighborhood I 12
think could be something helpful, as opposed to come on April 2 and all of Palo Alto will come 13
to talk about every project possible. I think having some specialized discussions for specific 14
neighborhoods, as Commissioner Akin mentioned, having these kind of areas I think formalizing 15
that could be really nice, and then having group sessions around those areas would be really 16
nice. 17
18
I also want to talk a little bit about wayfinding for Park Boulevard. I think that – I actually do see 19
a lot of bikers end up continuing on Park past [inaudible 203:02] Maclane, the turn that goes 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
onto Wilkie, and then when they get to the – Park and Meadow is actually okay. There is a 1
bollard crossing there, but when you get to Charleston, a lot of people get really confused 2
about where to go from there. And suppose you cross there, then you are extremely confused 3
about where you will continue onto because you can't find the bridge there. 4
5
Lastly, I also just want to say that I have seen a significant increase in very fast E-bikes, E-6
scooters, E etc., and that's something that I just – I'm not sure what we should be doing about 7
that, but I just – I see a lot breezing right through the stop sign at Meadow and Wilkie, which is 8
really close to where I live. Yeah. And then – yeah. 9
10
And I guess finally I just want to mention some other topics about the Barron Park 11
neighborhood. I know it's notoriously really difficult and there's – they would like to keep kind 12
of a rural aesthetic, but that is a little bit hard to bike through. I used to take El Camino Way, 13
Los Robles. I know there have been significant improvements since when I tried to bike there in 14
high school. It was – the bike lane was about half a bike lane and then the other half was a dirt 15
path, very not conducive for biking. And if that's something that we want to prioritize through 16
Safe Routes to School, I would really look into cleaning up Los Robles and maybe on El Camino 17
Way as when I was individually a biker it was very dangerous. Thank you. 18
19
Chair Chang: Commissioner Peterson. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
Commissioner Peterson: Thank you, Chair. So back to the idea on California Avenue and a bike 2
path along the railroad tracks. I took the time to pull this open and take a look. Between Peers 3
Park and California Avenue, it looks like the property lines have space for a walkway. There is 4
one property there that's maybe problematic, but that would make a beautiful walk from the 5
end of California Avenue to loop back around to Peers Park as a closed loop. And the current 6
pathway that's on here, which I agree is down Park Boulevard – Park Boulevard is essentially a 7
bike highway if anyone walks down there. In the morning, it's – I don't know. It literally is a 8
highway of people coming from Mountain View, but it's not necessarily all that nice for walking 9
on [with that 205:31] walk from the end of California Avenue. And I saw in the plan here, 2.2 on 10
Page 134, it does have Cal Ave Section D which talks about the underpass. So there is – it's 11
within a district that's already being planned, so I would suggest expanding that district further 12
than just Park Ave and taking it all the way to the Caltrain station and the railroad tracks so that 13
you're getting a more complete view of the pedestrian district. 14
15
And then Park Avenue is – it basically is showing it ending here where Park Avenue does 16
facilitate the bikes. But, again, if you're walking – and a lot of bikes do take the parking lot. I 17
don't know if – the legalities of or the safety of going through parking lots, but that parking lot 18
is pretty safe. There's not a lot of traffic in there. A lot of people do cut through that parking lot 19
across – I'm not sure what the name of that street is. Let's see. It is – give me one second here. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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Is it Boulevard Road again? It's across Oregon Expressway – Page Mill Road. There we go. I'm 1
not sure – it's called Page Mill Road. There's a small segment of Page Mill Road that's just 2
essentially abandoned in some way between Sheridan and – okay. It's the end of Page Mill Road 3
where Oregon tips off. Anyways, if you're walking, it's easier to walk through the parking lot of 4
the Caltrain over Oregon Expressway over what's essentially almost like an abandoned bridge. I 5
think a bus goes through there every once in a while; you got to watch yourself. And then cross 6
around behind Page Mill and there's now housing there. There didn't used to be a lot of 7
housing. And so you get a huge mass of people coming from those housing units over the old 8
Page Mill Road Bridge to the Caltrain station, but it's not a walkway. Everyone just walks in the 9
middle of the road and just watches out for the bus that comes by every once in a while. And 10
then from there, you're back on Park. So it really is – that's the missing link between North Palo 11
Alto and South Palo Alto. And once you have that piece, you can – I like doing that walk. It's my 12
– Mountain View from San Antonio Road – I get something to eat usually at the restaurant on 13
the corner – all the way over the bridge into San Mateo and back. So that's my big ideas is 14
connect the 2 sides of town. Thank you. 15
16
Chair Chang: All right. Well, I am so glad that we have Commissioner Peterson and 17
Commissioner Ji because they clearly were good picks in terms of the knowledge that they 18
have. So my big picture comment is – so like everybody else says – this is fantastic. Hooray. Yay. 19
Really great. Then my – the other side of that though is that – and I mentioned this in 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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premeeting – it's that I feel like sitting here in the Commission that the left hand often doesn't 1
talk to the right. So we are the Planning and Transportation Commission, and yet I see project 2
after project after project that does things without thinking about the impacts on our 3
pedestrian and bike and traffic. And so this is aspirational, and I think one of the big things is 4
thinking about how to have a closer partnership between PDS and Office of Transportation 5
because right now, as far as I can tell, we have planners who are looking at applications and 6
making decisions and sort of giving applicants an indication that yeah, that should be fine. But 7
then we get here to the Planning Commission and some of us here are saying wait, we think 8
that's not fine because we're thinking about things like special setbacks and why that special 9
setback exists. In fact, we're going to hear something next month, I think, where there's a 10
conversation about a special setback on a high-injury network at a really busy intersection with 11
lots of elderly folks right around that. 12
13
And so I love the pedestrian toolbox, but in order to make sure that we can actually do those 14
things, we probably need to preserve some of those special setbacks or how the exits of parking 15
structures may come out onto bike boulevards. And so one of the biggest things that I think 16
would be a fantastic addition to this plan would be guidelines for development relative to 17
bike/ped safety. So if there were a checklist, sort of like the things that you should look at and 18
why – and so I was overjoyed when I saw on Packet Page 140 the El Camino Real Neighborhood 19
Commercial Center – hooray – because I have been saying probably at 6 different Planning 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
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Commission meetings we cannot ignore this, we need to have more retail nodes, we need to 1
plan for this. But what's happening right now is we're having housing development after 2
housing development after housing development come up. And we recently saw a presentation 3
of retail nodes that was rather paltry compared to the full length that's the aspiration here on 4
Packet Page 140. And I think 140 actually reflects the reality of what is there. And so I think we 5
actually had a motion that we should – we as the PTC should take a look at this, but there's a – 6
where the rubber meets the road, we're having a massive issue, I think. And so anything that 7
you guys can do to encourage your Director and the PDS Director to be like little twins and let's 8
talk about this because we saw – like I said, it was just a few weeks ago where we saw a map of 9
El Camino that didn't look anything like this. And if that's what we want, the ship is sailing. It's 10
leaving the docks right now. So that's really important. 11
12
My other question is can you talk more about the shift from – the shift towards arterials and 13
what's driving that because I'm – my confusion around it is having heard Ms. Star-Lack's 14
presentation on Safe Streets for All and the desire to remove kinetic energy from situations, the 15
arterials are where we have the most cars moving the fastest. And yes, I know that if it's 16
separated it's better and maybe completely removes the problem, but can – please talk to us 17
more about that. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
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Nick Falbo: Yeah. Absolutely. So when trying to design a bikeway network, we highly prioritize 1
directness as a core principle in trying to build a network that gets people where they're going, 2
does it effectively, and gives people an option that can hopefully be in some forms competitive 3
with driving [inaudible 213:13] today. So routes that are circuitous that jog around a lot are at a 4
disadvantage when it comes to directness compared to a big street. That's also the location of 5
where the destinations are, where people are actually trying to go often if it's not in your 6
neighborhood. And there are lots of great neighborhood destinations, but a lot of the 7
commercial destinations and more and more where people are starting to live in these new 8
buildings are on these bigger and busier streets. So I think it would be – it's important to at 9
least consider them when it comes to doing a bike network plan. 10
11
And then I think maybe more relevant here is that the 2012 already includes them, but the 12
2012 plan doesn't actually plan for them. It has a concept in there they call – it's like an 13
enhanced shared roadway. It is a shared-lane marking, a little bike stencil put in the travel lane 14
with cars, and so we today kind of recognize that that was not the solution. Back in 2012, it was 15
an idea and it was not really getting us where we needed to be. The solution on streets like that 16
are things that look and feel much more like paths that are separated from the roadway, that 17
have a curb or some sort of physical separation. And so yes, to manage that kinetic energy, no 18
longer are we mixing the fragile human on a bike in the same lane as the big fast car. We're 19
separating them. We're putting in a barrier between them. So that's sort of the philosophy here 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
that says yes, we can make those streets safer and more comfortable and we would do that 1
with a protected bike lane. 2
3
Chair Chang: Yeah. So that all makes sense. I think it's interesting that Alma's been removed 4
when there's residences all the way along it and all of these neighborhoods that funnel 5
essentially straight into it. But then Oregon is there, and Oregon's like a deathtrap. It's a 6
deathtrap for cars right now. There is a little shrine right now under the underpass because 7
somebody died there. I'm wondering actually how people got the flowers to that spot because 8
that seems like a really dangerous activity. And there's all sorts of constraints there. And I know 9
that it's a County road, but that just seems extraordinarily misguided. And I have to say it here 10
because when there's anything that happens on Oregon, we see 280 and 101 – and 280 – it's 11
way down there, but 280 and 101 get backed up in both directions. And so that's one of those 12
places where I'd take the bikes off there completely because it is a – it's going to create a 13
County traffic problem if it's not done correctly. And maybe the County has some amazing 14
vision that I can't see, but there are – there's that area under the train tracks to deal with. 15
Embarcadero might be a little bit more doable, but I think Oregon is just possibly insanity and I 16
just can't see it. 17
18
Then I have a couple more specific kind of notes. I agree – modal filtering. I think that Mr. [Joy 19
216:26] who had a comment – who submitted a really detailed email had some really great 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
points. I think everybody but the cars loves modal filtering, but then that's fine for certain 1
streets. The residents like it too, so – residents and cars like it. And then the – I did want to 2
further emphasize the point that Commissioner Ji made about bike/ped crossings for trains in 3
South Palo Alto between California and East Meadow. I just feel like this – it's this neglected 4
section of the City. We have tons of housing coming in along El Camino. We're just going to 5
need more of that. It's a problem today. And in terms of indirect routes, I'd way rather see 6
some help there with a crossing than Oregon and it'll make a much more direct route. Let's see. 7
8
Nick Falbo: Just to address one of your – your latest comment about the Southern Railroad 9
crossings is there is another active project happening right now sort of in conjunction parallel to 10
this effort. 11
12
Chair Chang: That's great. 13
14
Nick Falbo: And we'll be actually examining that with the public meeting on April 2, so they'll 15
[inaudible 217:45]. 16
17
Chair Chang: Good. Where is that one just for our… 18
19
Ozzy Arce: Where is the meeting or… 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
Chair Chang: No, no, no. Where is that slated for, the crossing? 2
3
Ozzy Arce: It's to be determined. That's… 4
5
Female: [Study 217:57]. 6
7
Ozzy Arce: Yeah. That's the feasibility study. 8
9
Chair Chang: Okay. Got it. 10
11
Ozzy Arce: But it's up to 2. 12
13
Chair Chang: Yay. Hooray. We need it. And then, ditto on the decriminalization of ped/bike 14
behavior. They should stop at stop signs. And all of that really needs to be done in conjunction 15
with what do we do with electrified personal mobility devices. And maybe they don't count. 16
Maybe they don't – maybe they're classified as motorcycles instead. And I think that's it for me. 17
Does anybody else have anything else? Yes, Commissioner Akin. Vice-Chair Akin. 18
19
Vice-Chair Akin: I'll answer to either. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
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1
Chair Chang: And then Commissioner Hechtman. 2
3
Vice-Chair Akin: Yeah. This is an easy one. One of the points made by Mr. [Joy 218:55] in his 4
letter was a concern about why isn't San Antonio a pedestrian district, and I presume that the 5
reason is that we already are making a coordinated area plan down there. But I just wanted to 6
make sure that that point was understood. [Okay 219:14]. Thanks. 7
8
Commissioner Hechtman: So studying these maps, I had a question about Matadero Creek 9
which is shown on both the bike network update and the facilities map as a bikeway. And I 10
suspect what's that talking about – so that creek in this run has service roads on both sides. And 11
I don't think either of them is open for biking now, but what we're contemplating is biking 12
probably on one side. And it looks like the plan is to actually run it under the freeway where 13
you can kind of walk from the bay side and I have – because I bike over there a lot – you can 14
kind of walk under it. It's kind of a place where a troll might live. If the light's just right, it's a 15
little spooky, but is that the concept is that it would be an undercrossing for bikes that would 16
somehow come up and meet the bayside pathways? 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Sylvia Star-Lack: Yeah. That's the idea. It's something that residents have wanted us to look at 1
for a very long time. We've made some initial contacts with Valley Water about whether or not 2
we can do that, but we need to study that further. 3
4
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. Well, I – that would be great, kind of a Midtown crossing with 5
the 2 overcrossings just like before we had the San Antonio overcrossing. I can't remember who 6
it was named after, but we had the undercrossing that was open except during high water 7
times in the middle of the winter. So I think that'd be terrific. I'm really happy to see it here. 8
Thanks again for your work. 9
10
Chair Chang: Okay. I think we're… 11
12
Commissioner Ji: I just wanted to say one last [inaudible 221:24]. 13
14
Chair Chang: Okay. Sorry. Yes. 15
16
Commissioner Ji: Sorry. 17
18
Chair Chang: Commissioner Ji. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Ji: I forgot to mention one thing in my – sorry – very, very long list of things that 1
I've previously talked about. One thing that I'd like to – that I've seen very successfully in terms 2
of [inaudible 221:36] is there's slow streets where they have the really, what I believe is 3
hopefully relatively cheap plastic signs that are on opposite sides so that the traffic slows 4
significantly. I think that that's something to look into also because it's really easy to do a study 5
on. You can just put some pieces of plastic, see how the traffic is, come back to it. And this can 6
be kind of a beta test for modal filtering as well just to kind of see what the impacts are of that. 7
And that's something that I personally don't mind as a driver [in SF 222:06] and also my friends 8
who live near there also believe that the streets are significantly slower, and so I'd love to see 9
something like that as well here in the hopefully cool bike toolbox that will replicate similar 10
success as the pedestrian one. Thank you. 11
12
Chair Chang: All right. I don't see any other lights, so I think we might be done. Anybody – last 13
call. Okay. So that concludes this item. Did you guys get what you needed from us? 14
15
Ozzy Arce: Yes. Thank you. And please help us spread the word about the community 16
workshop, and we'll follow up with more information. 17
18
Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ozzy Arce: Thank you. 1
2
APPROVAL OF MINUTES 3
Public Comment is Permitted. Three (3) minutes per speaker. 4 5
5. Approval of Planning & Transportation Commission Draft Summary & Verbatim 6
Minutes of December 17, 2024 7
8
6. Approval of Planning & Transportation Commission Draft Summary & Verbatim 9
Minutes of January 15, 2025 10
11
Chair Chang: All right. So we've got to approve some minutes. They are December 17 and 12
January 15, both dates of Draft Summary and Verbatim Minutes. Anybody want to make 13
motions or is there any discussion about these minutes? 14
15
Commissioner Hechtman: I'll move approval of the December 17 Summary and Verbatim as 16
revised. 17
18
Commissioner Summa: Second. 19
20
Chair Chang: Okay. I think we have to have abstentions, so we need to do the roll call. 21
22
Jennifer Armer: You… 23
24
Chair Chang: Sorry. Take the vote. 25
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jennifer Armer: You could say all in favor, all opposed, and then all abstaining or that they could 2
individually… 3
4
Chair Chang: Okay. 5
6
Jennifer Armer: It – you've got choices as to how you want to… 7
8
Chair Chang: Great. 9
10
Jennifer Armer: …proceed with the vote. 11
12
Chair Chang: All in favor? 13
14
Commissioner Hechtman: Aye. 15
16
Chair Chang: Aye. 17
18
Vice-Chair Akin: Aye. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Summa: Aye. 1
2
Chair Chang: Any opposed? And any abstentions? I think you have to… 3
4
Commissioner Ji: Aye. 5
6
Commissioner Peterson: Yep. 7
8
Chair Chang: Okay. So we've – for the record, we've got Commissioner Peterson and 9
Commissioner Ji abstaining from the vote. 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: I will move approval of the Summary and Verbatim Minutes of 12
January 15 as revised. 13
14
Commissioner Summa: Second. 15
16
Chair Chang: Okay. Any discussion? All in favor? 17
18
Commissioner Hechtman: Aye. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Aye. 1
2
Vice-Chair Akin: Aye. 3
4
Commissioner Summa: Aye. 5
6
Chair Chang: Any opposed? And abstentions? 7
8
Commissioner Ji: Aye. 9
10
Commissioner Peterson: [Aye 224:17]. 11
12
Chair Chang: Okay. Let the record show that Commissioner Peterson and – Commissioners 13
Peterson and Ji have abstained. So that passes 4-0-2. 14
15
Jennifer Armer: Correct. 16
17
Chair Chang: Just like the other one. Okay. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to ten (10) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 1
Chair Chang: So our final agenda item is Commissioner questions, comments, announcements, 2
or future meetings and agendas. Commissioner Summa. 3
4
Commissioner Summa: I just want to officially welcome Commissioner Ji to the Commission. I 5
concur with our Chair that we have 2 great new additions, so it's exciting. 6
7
Chair Chang: Okay. That's it? All right. We are adjourned. Thank you, everyone. 8
9
Adjournment 10
9:45 PM 11
12
/km 13