HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024-06-12 Planning and Transportation Commission Verbatim Minutes_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Planning & Transportation Commission 1
Verbatim Minutes: June 12, 2024 2
Council Chambers & Virtual 3
6:00 PM 4
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Call to Order / Roll Call 6
5:59 PM 7
8
ROLL CALL 9
Chair Chang: Okay. I'd like to call to order the regular meeting for the Planning and 10
Transportation Commission for this Wednesday, June 12, 2024. Could you call the roll, please? 11
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Administrative Assistant Veronica Dao: Chair Chang? 13
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Chair Chang: Present. 15
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Veronica Dao: Commissioner Akin? 17
18
Commissioner Akin: Here. 19
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Veronica Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: Here. 1
2
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Lu? 3
4
Commissioner Lu: Here. 5
6
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Summa? 7
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Commissioner Summa: Here. 9
10
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 11
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Commissioner Templeton: Here. 13
14
Veronica Dao: We have a quorum. 15
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Oral Communications 17
The public may speak to any item not on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker.1,2 18
Chair Chang: Okay, so our first order of business is public comment, so members of the public 19
may speak to any item not on the agenda tonight. And we'll have three minutes per speaker. 20
Are there any speakers, Ms. Dao? 21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Veronica Dao: I have none for Oral Communications. 2
3
Chair Chang: Okay. Nothing online either? 4
5
Veronica Dao: No, I see three on Zoom, but none of them raised their hands. 6
7
Agenda Changes, Additions and Deletions 8
The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 9
Chair Chang: Great. Thank you. And are there any agenda changes, additions, and deletions? 10
11
Chief Planning Official Amy French: No changes e-, well, yes, there is a change… 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Yes… 14
15
Amy French: …sorry. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: …there is. 18
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Amy French: I got distracted. We do have a change. This evening, we have an item, that is Item 20
Number – I believe Item 2, 660 University. That item will not be heard tonight, by the 21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
applicant's request. We do not have a date certain scheduled, so it does not need to be 1
continued to a date certain. It's just a request for postponement to a date uncertain. So we are 2
here to honor that request. 3
4
Chair Chang: Okay. Well, it will make for a much shorter meeting tonight then. Our next order 5
of business is City Official Reports. Ms. French? 6
7
Item Number 2: 660 University was pulled off agenda at the request of the applicant. 8
9
City Official Reports 10
1. Directors Report, Meeting Schedule and Assignments 11
Amy French: Yes, thank you. I'm going to share my screen. And okay, there. Voila. So we have, 12
on the screen showing, our upcoming Planning and Transportation Commission meeting target 13
dates. So our next one is of course two weeks from now. We have an open space home, and I'm 14
hoping that we can resume the topic that we – that the Planning and Transportation 15
Commission addressed on May 29, the code changes for state law and clarifications. There was 16
one topic that was continued for further discussion, and so I'm going to try to bring that back. 17
Then we have – on July 10, we have an item from the Office of Transportation as well as a 18
vesting tentative map for the Buena Vista Mobile Home Park. Then you'll recall we canceled the 19
July 31 meeting. We have on August 14 a number of items coming from the long-range planning 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
section, and so that's on the screen there. And then we'll look toward the last meeting of 1
August, which is – we're thinking we may be able to come back with the 660 University at that 2
time as well as another item from the Office of Transportation on the parking programs. 3
4
Then just quickly, for the June Council dates, we – those are both published packets, and so we 5
have a couple of items there, one for Transportation on the 17th, one for Planning but that was 6
not looked at by the Planning Commission. And then on the 18th, we have our Buena Vista 7
Mobile Home Park, again not reviewed by the PTC but of great interest, and then a CDBG, also 8
not reviewed by PTC. So whoever's the June – and we did have the NVCAP on that night and it's 9
been published in the packet, but my understanding is that is looking to be pushed off to 10
August, so – after the Council break. So that concludes my presentation. 11
12
Chair Chang: Question for you, Ms. French? 13
14
Amy French: Mm-hm. 15
16
Chair Chang: So for the NVCAP item, when will we know if it's been pushed or is that going to 17
be a spur of the moment decision by Council? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Amy French: Well, I understand that on Monday night there was a big item, and I think – I don't 1
think that was fully completed or something. This just is what I have understood is that we 2
published the packet and it's ready for review. There might be an overage of items on June 18, 3
and so there should be a date set for August that we can alert the public about. We do have 4
outreach to the public about these, the NVCAP in particular, and so as soon as we know what 5
date that is, we will send out a message about that. We're pretty confident it's not going on 6
June 18. 7
8
Chair Chang: Thank you. And do we have – we don't have anybody from Office of 9
Transportation here today, correct? 10
11
Amy French: Yes, Rafael is here with his… 12
13
Chair Chang: Oh, he's here? 14
15
Amy French: …hand raised. 16
17
Chair Chang: Okay. Oh, he has his hand raised, yes. So Mr. Rius, do you have a report for us? 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Senior Transportation Engineer Rafael Rius: Yes, Rafael Rius, Senior Engineer with the Office of 1
Transportation and probably part of the reason why the item on the 18th might get pushed. So 2
last Monday – or Monday night, the Office of Transportation brought the Rail Grade Separation 3
Project to Council, and they discussed and directed Staff to move forward with – for the – a 4
partial undercrossing for the Alma-Churchill crossing as well as bicycle and pedestrian crossing 5
at Seale Avenue. They did not get to discuss the Alma-Meadow and Alma-Charleston crossings, 6
which will be – which was moved to the 18th, so that's going to be a big discussion on June 18. 7
Also, also on Monday night, they did a-, move forward the Quarry Road extension to the transit 8
center. It was approved to move forward to the ballot for November's election. And then 9
coming up next week, as Amy had up on the board a while ago, on June 17, the El Camino Real 10
Bike Lane Project will be going to Council, and then I mentioned that the Rail Grade Separation 11
Project for Meadow and Charleston will be on the 18th. Also just as an update to everyone, the 12
automated parking guidance system construction is anticipated to start this July with the – it's 13
going to start with the Alma/High Parking Garage, go through Bryant/Lytton, Cowper/Webster, 14
and then finally the City Hall Parking Garage, anticipated to end around February 2025. Those 15
are the only updates I have. 16
17
Chair Chang: Any questions? All right, thank you very much, Mr. Rius. 18
19
Action Items 20
Public Comment is Permitted. Three (3) minutes per speaker. 21
22
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
2. 4075 El Camino Way [23PLN-00202, Palo Alto Commons]: Consideration of a 1
Planned Community (PC) Project Amending an Existing PC (PC-5116) to Allow 2
Additions to an Existing 121 Unit Assisted Living and Memory Care Facility. The 3
Additions Would Include 16 Assisted Living Units. Environmental Assessment: 4
Pending. Zoning District: PC-5116 (Planned Community). 5
6
Chair Chang: So again, for those of you just joining, our next agenda item would have been the 7
quasi-judicial hearing for 660 University, but that has now been moved at the applicant's 8
request to a date uncertain. So our next agenda item is 4075 El Camino way. This is a Public 9
Hearing, quasi-judicial, of consideration of a Planned Community project amending the existing 10
PC to allow additions to an existing 121-unit assisted living and memory care facility. Could we 11
have the staff presentation? 12
13
Amy French: Yes, Emily Kallas is uploading her presentation, and we look forward to hearing 14
from Emily. 15
16
Planner Emily Kallas: Hi, good evening, Commissioners. This is the staff presentation for 4075 El 17
Camino Way, Palo Alto Commons, addition to an existing Planned Community development. 18
The overview is that this project proposes construction of 16 additional assisted living units to 19
an existing 121-unit assisted living and memory care facility. No change to the overall building 20
height or setbacks is proposed; however, the proposed additions are primarily in existing step-21
backs on the upper floors, and most of these step-backs are facing a single-family 22
neighborhood. Additionally, the assisted living use is not clearly defined in the Palo Alto 23
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Municipal Code, but because these living units do not have kitchens and the residents receive 1
all meals as part of the services provided by the facility, these are not considered dwelling units 2
for the purpose of the Regional Housing Needs Allocation. This shows the project location on El 3
Camino Way near the corner of El Camino Way and West Meadow Drive, about a block away 4
from El Camino Real. It also shows the adjacent Wilkie Way neighborhood. This is an overview 5
of the Planned Community review process. This project started with a prescreening last August 6
and had its first PTC hearing in February, earlier this year. The next steps would be for the 7
project to go to the Architectural Review Board and receive a recommendation. It would then 8
return to PTC for your formal recommendation, and then the Cou-, decision would be made by 9
Council. And public comments are accepted at all times throughout this process. 10
11
This was the site plan as you saw it in February. These nine areas around the building would be 12
filled in for a height of two to three stories. I highlighted it in different colors. The yellow areas 13
are where it's the 3-foot height, so even with the top of the existing building, and the green 14
areas are 2 stories, so slightly lower on that side. This version of the project included 719 15
square feet added to the ground floor as well as a total of 18 units or 6816 square feet. This 16
proposal encroached up to 1 foot 8 inches into the daylight plane adjacent to the single-family 17
houses. And then it has been modified, again with the green being two-story and yellow being 18
three-story. There's a larger addition on the ground floor now, 1186 square feet, though about 19
170 square feet of that is office or administrative space for the facility. The number of units has 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
decreased from 18 to 16, but the overall square footage is slightly larger. The building does not 1
encroach into the 45-degree daylight plane, and we'll talk about that in a little more detail later 2
in the presentation. 3
4
This specifically shows the elevation on the rear side facing the single-family neighborhood. The 5
top is the green building as it exists today. The lower is the proposed. As you can see, there are 6
now one-story and two-story roof forms compared to the initial version where the vast majority 7
of it was going all the way to the third-floor height. And this is the other half of it since it 8
doesn't all fit on a single slide, but again, we can see that two of these additions are two-story 9
and then the third one all the way to the right is three stories in height. The other two, where 10
you see the two-story, there is a third-story component of that, but it's pushed further back. So 11
the key considerations from the prior PTC hearing included the daylight plane, parking 12
conditions, the noise study, and questions about public benefits. This is the daylight plane as 13
was included in the prescreening application, so the one that was reviewed by Council in 14
August 2023. This used the 3:6 version of the daylight plane measured from 10 feet up and then 15
a 3-feet rise for every 6 feet over slope to the daylight plane, and there were major protrusions 16
into that daylight plane proposed. This is the version that the – that you, the PTC, saw in 17
February. This used the 45-degree daylight plane and showed protrusions mostly of the parapet 18
walls. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
The current plans, the images of which are on the next slide, show both the 45-degree daylight 1
plane and the 3:6 daylight plane. The 45-degree daylight plane is from the R1 section of the 2
zoning code, whereas the 3:6 one is part of the PC special requirements for nonresidential land 3
uses. Both are measured at 10 feet up from the property line. However, Planned Community 4
Ordinance 3775, which is the regulations for the existing Palo Alto Commons Building, was built 5
with the 45-degree daylight plane as the requirement, and so Staff at this time believes that's 6
the most appropriate daylight plane to compare it to for the addition as well. And the plans 7
show that the existing building slightly encroaches into the 3:6 daylight plane, and because this 8
is a Planned Community project, it may request further encroachments into either daylight 9
plane. And so these show the images. Obviously they're a bit small here, but in particular, the 10
Section A in the bottom right corner is one example of where the 3:6 daylight plane cuts into 11
the existing building as well as Section B above, which actually shows it encroaching at the 12
second floor. And then again, all of the sections show that there's no longer any protrusion, 13
including of parapets, into the 45-degree daylight plane. 14
15
Neighbors expressed concern about visitor and staff parking in the neighborhood. A parking 16
study was prepared by Hexagon, studying the peak hours, and their observation showed that 17
there is available parking on site. However, it is currently our understanding that a lot of that 18
parking is behind a gate, and so we are working with the applicant to make sure that the 19
parking is available to visitors and staff. Specifically, a Transportation Demand Management 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Plan will be prepared to ensure that visitors and staff has access to these spaces as well as to 1
implement TDM measures that were a part of the original PC, such as transit passes for staff. A 2
noise analysis was prepared by Illingworth & Rodkin, which studied construction noise; 3
operational noise, including the existing and new rooftop equipment; as well as how the 4
Caltrain horns may reflect off of the building, which was at the request of the neighbors. The 5
study found that the addition would not noticeably increase ambient noise and that the 6
operational noise fit within the limitations of the municipal code. Additionally, Michael Thill 7
from Illingworth & Rodkin is available on Zoom if we have any questions. Lastly, at the prior PTC 8
meeting, the commissioners asked for the public benefits for this project to be defined. The 9
applicant prepared a letter, which is included in the packet, which identified the public benefits 10
as care and housing for seniors who are unable to live on their own, aesthetic improvements to 11
the existing improvements, and improvements to the refuse management on site. 12
13
Neighbor comments have been provided to the PTC. Many of the neighbors are here to speak 14
for themselves tonight, but a summary of those concerns include desire for the step-backs 15
adjacent to the single-family homes to be maintained and disagreement that the 45-degree 16
daylight plane is the most appropriate, concern about increased shade in the neighbors' yards, 17
concern about parking, and concern about noise as I have mentioned. The recommended 18
motion is for the PTC to provide additional comments and feedback and recommend that the 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
project move forward to the Architectural Review Board. This concludes my presentation, and 1
the applicant will give their own presentation as well. Thank you. 2
3
Steve Sandholtz: I broke it. Good evening. I'm Steve Sandholtz with WellQuest Living. We're the 4
management operating company for Palo Alto Commons and The Avant. We don't intend to 5
make a formal presentation this evening. We feel like Staff's presentation adequately describes 6
the actions that we have taken since we were last before the Planning Commission, and we 7
have tried to be responsive and listen to the feedback that we got, both from you and from our 8
neighbors. Part of our process included outreach to the neighbors. We had a meeting with 9
them at The Avant, and many of them showed up and continued to voice their concerns about 10
what we have been proposing. But as outlined by Staff, we have made meaningful 11
modifications to our original plans to be respectful of their concerns and to make sure that we 12
are completely consistent with the underlying zoning and existing code for this project. So since 13
we started the process, that has included eliminating two units that had originally been 14
proposed. Additionally, at the neighborhood meeting, one of the neighbors did say, "If you 15
could just move back some of the upper floors, that would be very helpful," so we did that. We 16
shrunk some of the units that had been planned on the third floor so that now we are entirely 17
out of the daylight plane measurement. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
In addition to cooperating with the Staff and Hexagon, their consultant, on the parking and kind 1
of traffic impact, we have made some modifications. We've sent letters to all of our residents, 2
to all of our staff, to family members advising them of our parking policies and procedures. 3
There are 17 spaces before the gate. We now have a sign at our entrance that advises people 4
that are struggling to find parking to call the front desk and they'll open the gate. We also have 5
a call box at the gate so that anybody that pulls up, if there's not open visitor parking outside 6
the gate, they can pick up the box, will reach the front desk, and we can open the gate for 7
them. So consistent with the findings of the parking study, we believe that we are adequately 8
parked for the current use and for the proposed additional units. We didn't have much 9
involvement with the noise study, but we cooperated with that. And we really feel like we've 10
tried to listen to all of the input from the neighbors, have made the project conform, and 11
respectfully request your support of the project moving forward. Happy to answer any 12
questions that you may have. 13
14
Chair Chang: Thank you. So I should have asked for disclosures at the beginning of this, so let's 15
do that now. Yeah, that'd be great. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: I don't have any disclosures. 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: No disclosures. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: The only thing that I can say is I went to go check out the parking situation today 2
and did see that there was a sign that's very small in the main driveway. I saw that everything 3
was full. I saw that one of the spaces in front of the building is now marked "Reserved for future 4
resident." And then I also called the number and asked how I could access the parking behind 5
the gate but was told that "Parking is always an issue. You can find street parking, and if it's a 6
short visit, you could then park at the Goodwill." And then they asked if I was a visitor or a 7
family member, and I said just a visitor and I was told that the parking downstairs is for family 8
members only. So that's my disclosure. 9
10
Commissioner Akin: I have nothing to disclose. 11
12
Commissioner Summa: I made one site visit earlier before the other meeting and observed the 13
parking at that time also, which – it was – the gate was not open at that time, and it was very 14
full. And what wasn't – what didn't have a car in it had building materials, construction 15
materials from some of the work I guess you're presently doing renovating so… 16
17
Commissioner Lu: I previously made a site visit in February, just walking around the block. I 18
have nothing notable to disclose from that. And on Sunday, I briefly chatted with a neighbor but 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
don't have any additional comments to disclose beyond what's in the public comment record so 1
far. 2
3
Chair Chang: Great. So let's do clarifying questions. So please limit your comments to – or limit 4
it to clarifying questions, and then we'll take public comment. I have Commissioner Templeton 5
and then Commissioner Akin if my lights are right. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. Thanks, Chair. I was wondering if you wanted to ask the 8
applicant to respond to any of your observations. I'd like to hear that. That would be my 9
question. Thanks. 10
11
Chair Chang: Let's do that at the same time that the applicant responds to everything. 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 14
15
Chair Chang: Yep. Okay. 16
17
Commissioner Akin: Thank you, Chair. First question is just clarification. The plan set sheet A1.1 18
shows 18 additions. Two of those are marked as offices, and I wanted to make sure that I 19
understood whether those were present in the previous version of the plans or whether 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
residents' units had been converted. It appears that they were there before, but I wanted to 1
make sure. 2
3
Emily Kallas: I don't believe they were there before, but I probably would wanna double check. 4
5
Commissioner Akin: Yeah, I A-B'd between your two before-and-after plan sets, and I'm pretty 6
sure they were there before… 7
8
Chair Chang: Would the applicant like to speak… 9
10
Commissioner Akin: …but I can't tell. 11
12
Chair Chang: …to that issue? 13
14
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah, I just checked with our architect. They were there before. Apparently 15
they weren't called out. 16
17
Commissioner Akin: Okay, thank you. Second question, the parking study didn't measure offsite 18
parking, and we know that that's a major concern. Do we have any estimate at all of how much 19
offsite parking is currently being used? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Steve Sandholtz: By Palo Alto Commons? 2
3
Commissioner Akin: Particularly staff, but it could be visitors as well. 4
5
Steve Sandholtz: No, we don't. The study's findings were that we can meet the needs of all of 6
our parking requirements, even at peak hours, on site but hard for us to wander the 7
neighborhood and know whose cars are whose. 8
9
Commissioner Akin: Okay, well, we'll talk about it more in discussion, but just for clarifying, 10
that's fine. Thank you. And last one for me, the Commons' Community Parking Policy 11
encourages staff members to park on El Camino, and I think we all expect that those spaces are 12
going away. So have you considered an alternate – a backup plan for when those spaces do 13
disappear? 14
15
Steve Sandholtz: We will continue to support the staff busing plan, and we will continue to 16
make sure we have parking available in the building and on site. 17
18
Commissioner Akin: Okay, thank you. That's all the clarifying questions I have. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Okay, we have Commissioner Hechtman and then Summa. 1
2
Commissioner Hechtman: Two questions. First for the applicant, I think you may have answered 3
this for me at the last meeting and I'm sorry I forgot, but remind me of the duration of 4
residencies at the Palo Alto Commons? 5
6
Steve Sandholtz: It varies, but probably the average length of stay is in the two-to-three-year 7
range. 8
9
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, thank you. And then a question for Staff, really just a 10
confirmation, this is coming back to us after it goes to the ARB and when it comes back to us, 11
there will be a TDM for us to review? 12
13
Emily Kallas: Yes, that's correct. So no formal recommendation is being made by the PTC 14
tonight. PTC is required to review PC projects before they go to the Architectural Review Board. 15
We hope to have the TDM Plan before it goes to the Architectural Review Board or at least 16
before the – certainly before the Architectural Review Board gives their recommendation, and 17
then therefore, we will also have it before you give your recommendation. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, and is Staff anticipating that parking will be significantly 1
addressed in that TDM? 2
3
Emily Kallas: The TDM will implement the TDM measures that are in the current PC ordinance 4
and any additional measures necessary to address the parking conditions. 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, great. Thanks. 7
8
Chair Chang: Commissioner Summa? 9
10
Commissioner Summa: Thank you, Chair. Just one question about Attachment C, which is the 11
parking study. Is – I did not see anywhere where the entire study was available to us, and I'm 12
assuming this is just a memo that summarized the study. 13
14
Emily Kallas: What is provided is all the information that was provided to Staff. 15
16
Commissioner Summa: This is the entire parking study? 17
18
Emily Kallas: Yes. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Summa: Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. 1
2
Chair Chang: All right, I don't see any other lights right now, so I have a couple of clarifying 3
questions. So can you please show us on the plans where the two units that were removed are 4
– were – are in the slides? 5
6
Emily Kallas: Yeah, I can go ahead and pull up the plan set. 2.3A? 7
8
Steve Sandholtz: 2.3A. 9
10
Emily Kallas: So at the applicant's advisement, this is sheet 2.3A. This is the third-floor plan for 11
the portion of the building closer to the interior side of the lot, so more toward the Avant 12
building, more away from the East Meadow roadside. And this shows that there are three new 13
units proposed in that area. I also have the C2 plans, if I can get my cursor to be the right type 14
of cursor. There we go. And then on sheet 2.3A in this plan set… 15
16
Chair Chang: And if this is too difficult for us all to visualize, maybe those elevations that you 17
showed, you – we could just point to where they were. 18
19
Steve Sandholtz: The net… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Akin: Or in the presentation, you can switch back and forth between the before 2
and after, and most of them are obvious. 3
4
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah, the impact change was where we had two units planned, when we 5
reduced the total addition to get out of the daylight plane, those two units became single units. 6
7
Chair Chang: Thank you. That's helpful. So they essentially would've been – because this part of 8
the building jutted out further, there was room enough to do two units in each of those 9
locations? Is that correct? 10
11
Steve Sandholtz: Correct. 12
13
Chair Chang: Okay, and now… 14
15
Steve Sandholtz: So there was enough room at the roof level, but that would've intruded into 16
the daylight plane… 17
18
Chair Chang: Understood. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Steve Sandholtz: …so when we moved out of the daylight plane, we lost one unit on each… 1
2
Chair Chang: Okay, thank you. 3
4
Steve Sandholtz: …location. 5
6
Chair Chang: All right, then I have some questions about parking. So how many parking spaces 7
are there because the Hexagon report says 55, the staff report says 57, and the applicant says 8
58 in the letter that they sent out to their residents. So how many are there actually? 9
10
Emily Kallas: So Staff believes that the 55 number in Hexagon's report is correct. The 57 in the 11
staff report reflects that the zoning code allows ADA spaces to count as 2 spaces. I… 12
13
Chair Chang: Thank you… 14
15
Emily Kallas: …don't know about… 16
17
Chair Chang: …that makes… 18
19
Emily Kallas: …the 58. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: So then the Hexagon report is either – so it's that there's two ADA spaces 2
potentially that are then… 3
4
Emily Kallas: Yes. 5
6
Chair Chang: Got it. Okay. Thank you. That's helpful. And then how many spaces would have 7
actually been required if this were a convalescent ho-, I mean, I think I'm just a little confused 8
about why the initial PC had required like a commuter – some – a commuter program, and so 9
I'm trying to understand on the staff report – so page 114 – oh no, that's not right. On the table 10
in the staff report. I think it's 112. Packet page – oh, yeah, no, it is packet page 114. So it says 11
that we're required to have 1 space per 2.5 beds, but I wondered how beds was defined 12
because my understanding is that Palo Alto Commons has both memory care as well as assisted 13
living, so is – are those all assumed to be convalescent facilities then? And so for the 121-unit 14
facility, we are assuming 121 beds, or how does this all work? 15
16
Emily Kallas: I believe in this table, the 33 spaces – or, yeah, the top line in the senior housing 17
area is for the Avant building, and then the bottom section, the 1 per 2.5 beds, is for the Palo 18
Alto Commons section because these are collocated on the same parcel. Additionally, I checked 19
again, and the PC ordinance for Palo Alto Commons says that 55 spaces is required. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Okay. So – because my understanding then is – well, maybe my follow-up question 2
would be how many beds are there right now because it sounds like all of Palo Alto Commons is 3
considered the convalescent facility, and maybe the – I can ask the applicant if you don't know, 4
Ms. Kallas. 5
6
Emily Kallas: It's 121. 7
8
Chair Chang: 121. Okay. This is where I was confused because if I take 121 and divide it by 2.5, I 9
get 48 spaces, so it means that they're providing more parking than would be required for a 10
typical convalescent facility. Is that correct? 11
12
Emily Kallas: So there's 121 existing and then plus the 16 that are… 13
14
Chair Chang: Right. 15
16
Emily Kallas: …being proposed. 17
18
Chair Chang: Okay. That still doesn't – I'm just confused at how these numbers all fit together. 19
Because then it says 55 spaces are required, so it sounds like there's still – okay, that makes 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
sense. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for clearing that up for me. Then when was the date of the 1
parking notice sent to – this is a question for the applicant, I think. When is the date of the 2
parking notice that was sent? The reason I'm asking is I'm interested to know the timing relative 3
to the Hexagon study. 4
5
Steve Sandholtz: I don't have the exact date, but it was within two weeks of our last meeting 6
with the Planning Commission. 7
8
Chair Chang: Got it. And therefore the Hexagon study was done after the remediation had been 9
done. Okay. 10
11
Steve Sandholtz: Okay. 12
13
Chair Chang: And what's the current policy for who can access the spaces behind the gate? 14
15
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah, you should have been able to access today. The policy is that if a visitor 16
comes, we will open the gate and let them in. 17
18
Chair Chang: Okay, that's good. because I – the response I got… 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah. 1
2
Chair Chang: …was not what I wanted to hear. 3
4
Steve Sandholtz: It may have been that our regular receptionist was not at the desk and the 5
person filling in was unfamiliar with the policy, so I apologize for that. 6
7
Chair Chang: And do we know how many residents have cars? 8
9
Steve Sandholtz: We can estimate. Two. 10
11
Chair Chang: Two. And then do we know – because I assume with the – this is a question for 12
Staff now. I assume that the – for the convalescent facility, the assumption is because 13
somebody is convalescing that they don't have cars, right? 14
15
Emily Kallas: So the 1-point – or the 1 bed per 2-point – or the… 16
17
Chair Chang: Space per bed, yeah. 18
19
Emily Kallas: …2.5 beds is from the zoning code. I… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Okay. 2
3
Emily Kallas: …assume that that is the rationale, but I… 4
5
Chair Chang: It's just… 6
7
Emily Kallas: …don't have… 8
9
Chair Chang: …it… 10
11
Emily Kallas: …the historical knowledge for… 12
13
Chair Chang: Yeah… 14
15
Emily Kallas: …certain. 16
17
Chair Summa: …that's helpful just because, again, this is a PC and we can do – we have lots of… 18
19
Emily Kallas: Right. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: …flexibility, but usually we like to base it off of some – something in the code. 2
3
Amy French: Right, and this doesn't quite meet the definition of convalescent facility, so it's – I 4
think that's understood. 5
6
Chair Chang: Right, okay. That's helpful. And then, let's see. How many private caregivers are 7
there? I remember asking this of the applicant last time and was told something like three, but I 8
just wanted to check in on that again. 9
10
Steve Sandholtz: On average, three to five per day. 11
12
Chair Chang: Three to five per day. Okay, and are they allowed to use the parking behind the 13
gate? 14
15
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah. 16
17
Chair Chang: Okay. I thought I read something different in the letter, but I'll look at that later. 18
And then the last two questions are, the letter to residents mentioned that there could possibly 19
be valet parking, that there could possibly be service to offsite parking via a shuttle. So are 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
those – is there any of those things right now and where would those act-, where would those 1
parking sites be or are they going to be in the TDM? 2
3
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah, we only do that when there's a special event. 4
5
Chair Chang: Okay. 6
7
Steve Sandholtz: So for instance, we just completed our kind of phase 1 renovations. We had a 8
grand opening a few weeks ago, and we had valet parking for that where we went and parked 9
cars off site. So on a normal day-to-day use, we're not doing valet nor are we parking off site. 10
For peak use hours, we have adequate parking on site, but when we do a special event, 11
whether it's around a holiday or something else, then we'll provide valet and offsite parking. 12
13
Chair Chang: And then if the valet, offsite parking, that – is that essentially – are the valets using 14
on-street parking or are they using somebody else's parking lot? 15
16
Steve Sandholtz: No, it is another parking lot. So we are parking in The Avant and Palo Alto 17
Commons garage, but with the valet, we can stack… 18
19
Chair Chang: Got it. Okay. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Steve Sandholtz: …so we can get additional cars on site. 2
3
Chair Chang: That's helpful also. Okay, and then final question for Staff is regarding the PC. I 4
looked at the original PC, and it mentioned that there was a 200-, approximately $200,000 in-5
lieu contribution to BMR housing. For this project, what development fees or in-lieu fees would 6
be charged? 7
8
Emily Kallas: I haven't specifically looked into that yet. Again, that is something that would 9
certainly be completed before it returns to the PTC for a recommendation. 10
11
PUBLIC COMMENT 12
Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. Seeing no other lights for clarifying questions, let's move to 13
public comment. So as a reminder, each speaker has 5 minutes and groups of 5 may have 15 14
minutes, I believe. Is that right, Ms. French? 15
16
Amy French: If there are groups of 5, then they get 15… 17
18
Chair Chang: Okay. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Amy French: …yeah. 1
2
Chair Chang: Thank you. Ms. Dao? 3
4
Veronica Dao: Okay. I have one group of five… 5
6
Amy French: Was it 10? I'm sorry. I was not looking… 7
8
Chair Chang: Groups of five… 9
10
Amy French: …at the packet. 11
12
Chair Chang: …have 10 minutes. Okay, thank you. 13
14
Veronica Dao: One group of 5, 14 in person, and I have 2 raised hands on Zoom. 15
16
Chair Chang: Okay, and as a reminder to the public, we won't be accepting new speaker cards 17
or raised hands after five minutes has passed. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Veronica Dao: So first, group of five, Kevin Ji speaking on behalf of Celine, Carly, Nishanti, and 1
John Paul. 2
3
Chair Chang: I have a question actually for Staff before we start with the first group of five. On 4
the front page of our packet, it does say 15 minutes, and so I'd like to adhere to 15 minutes so 5
that our group is expecting – has the time that they expected to have. 6
7
Amy French: It's at the pleasure of the Chair, I think. 8
9
Chair Chang: Okay. Thank you. 10
11
Amy French: Yeah. 12
13
Kevin Ji: Hello, PTC. My name is Kevin, and I am a lifelong resident, I guess, of my 25 years in 14
Palo Alto so far. I – who am I? I grew up here. I'm Fairmeadow Class of 2010, Terman Class of 15
2013, Gunn Class of 2017, and Stanford Class of 2021, and my parents are really excited that I 16
haven't left yet. So first I wanted to start by addressing each component of the staff report. And 17
one of the things I want to start by saying is that in my conversations with Emily on staff, she 18
said that there is no formal PC amendment process in Palo Alto and therefore when drafting up 19
a new PC, we should follow the creation timeline. And for that – I just want to start with that 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and trying to follow as much of the PAMC as much as we can. So first I'd like to talk about the 1
daylight plane. [Inaudible 53:12] took a lot of my points, but I will still make them. So I think – 2
let's walk through Section 18, Subsection 38.150. That's the citation that has been cited on the 3
staff report. In it, there are kind of like – I want to break it down into two different components, 4
so one is whether or not we should be using the 3:6 and also the other component, which is if 5
it's 60 percent residential, we should be following the most strict component with the backing 6
against the residential side. 7
8
So as mentioned by Staff, this doesn't contribute to the Regional Housing Needs Assessment 9
goals and therefore should – in my opinion, should not be considered as residential housing, 10
and as such, we should follow Section 150 and use the 3:6 as the correct daylight plane angle at 11
this time. Part of the original amendment to the original PC created in 1987 was that we would 12
maintain the step-back that's part of the original kind of handshake agreement with the original 13
residents, and one of our neighbors used to – was living there at this time and that's kind of 14
where I'm getting that information. I also want to align with Council Member Burt and Vice 15
Mayor Stone's statements during the initial screening, who also made similar comments as to 16
this as well. But for sake of argument, let's go with the assumption that the – it is 60 percent 17
residential and the most restrictive daylight plane is – actually has a 16-feet setback, which is 18
the R1 rear yard, which, as defined by the staff report, is the Wilkie side with a 60-degree angle. 19
This is Section 18, Subsection 12.040. Happy to let Staff or others correct me on that because as 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
– again, I'm not an expert. I'm just a resident here. And – so yeah, so I want to call that out as 1
well. And the most recent PC, which is PC 5116, says that they will be following Section 18.38, 2
and so we should be following the guidance from the municipal code as much as possible. 3
4
So the next point I'd like to make is regarding parking. I kind of want to talk about the parking 5
study as stated in the attachments. So first we – the vehicles that were counted were total 6
vehicles and not just the visitors' vehicles. I'd love to see a breakdown between like the visitor 7
versus visitor parking spaces versus kind of a total conglomerate. As mentioned by a couple 8
different commissioners and also my lived experience, it's pretty difficult to like get to the 9
parking behind the gate regardless of whether or not that parking is available. I also want to call 10
out that the parking study was conducted on a Tuesday, a Thursday, and a Friday between 9 11
and 11 AM. My grandparents live in Lytton Gardens, and I will say that I have not visited them 12
at that time of day or week, I don't think ever. So I would suggest that conducting a parking 13
study on a weekend, which is – tends to be when I go visit my grandparents, and considering 14
the peak time usage on that as kind of the gold standard for the parking study. I also want to 15
call out kind of – I'm not really super sure about the staffing structure in terms of between the – 16
the timing between shifts because, in my opinion, also from a staff perspective, the parking 17
situation would be the worst when we both have kind of a double occupancy situation where 18
there may be existing staff members who are currently still in the building and then there are 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
ones that want to come for their shift. And because of that, there – that's kind of when I expect 1
the most amount of staff parking to be needed. 2
3
So I actually want to call back to the – I think – I don't know which amendment it is, which is the 4
statement of the current parking policy. As stated, actually I'm going to read this as a quote, 5
"Private caregivers can only park at nearby public parking." That is a citation from the – 6
whatever is on the staff report. I think it is one of the amendments, which I think I'm a little bit 7
confused about because if there were really – if there really is ample paring for everyone to be 8
there, why is it that the private caretakers cannot park in said ample parking? So that's one of 9
my questions as well. Another comment I want to address from the last time we had our 10
meeting, which was that all private caretakers must sign in. Personally I've done a couple site 11
visits as well. Not once have I been asked to sign in anywhere, so I wonder what the actual 12
amount of private caretakers there are currently at this establishment. Yeah, and then as 13
mentioned before, the visitor parking is behind a gate. Like I – of course I drive by El Camino 14
Way most days to get home, so I kind of just take a peek at the visitor parking. It is mostly full 15
most of the time, like on the street in front of the gate, so I just wanted to call that out as well. 16
17
My next point is regarding the density and floor area ratio, which is cited in the table provided 18
by Staff. I don't really know exactly what to really comment thereon except that all the values 19
that are provided, both in the existing PC and also in the new one, are higher than the limits 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
provided by the CN or residential housing, so I guess I'm a little bit confused about what's up 1
with that. Next I want to focus on the noise study. So as mentioned by our neighbors in the 2
past, the noise mostly occurs when there's HVAC going on in the summertime. The summer AC 3
is kind of when we hear it, and we'd love to [listen 58:58] more about the noise study during 4
the summer months when we expect the most amount of noise. Again, all of these studies, I 5
think we care about is like the peak time, right? It's like it's okay if like 90 percent of the time if 6
it's underneath. It's only about those like – the times when it violates both the noise level and 7
also for the parking as well. Now I'd like to turn your attention to the Palo Alto Comprehensive 8
Plan Land Use Policy, and I'm going to cite a couple different items of which I believe this 9
current project may have some contradictions with our 2030 Land Use Policy. 10
11
In Section L3.1, we're to ensure that new or remodeled structures are compatible with 12
neighborhood and adjacent structures, which I'd say the step-back kind of leads into a first-floor 13
R1 neighborhood, while if we were to build it up to a three-floor, it would not be as compatible. 14
Now I'd like to bring your attention to L6.2, which is use the zoning ordinance design review 15
process, design guidelines, and Coordinated Area Plans to ensure high-quality residential and 16
commercial design and architectural compatibility. So I think that a large part of the comments 17
that are made is that in the – we should be using the 1987 as kind of a precedent here. But 18
we've updated our zoning law since then, so why shouldn't we be using it, especially regarding 19
convalescent facilities as well as including this – the – for PCs using the 3:6 angle. Finally there's 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
L6.8, which is to support existing regulation that preserves exposure to natural light for single-1
family residences. Regardless of whether the daylight plane impact is violated or not with the 2
3:6, like adding additional buildings will reduce the amount of daylight that we have on our 3
residential property, and so we want to continue following L6.8. I also want to call out that in 4
the staff report , the 3:6 angle is violated by exactly 1 out of 121 units, and it's – I think it's okay 5
that we continue to maintain the 3:6 angle going forward and we can just grandfather in that 6
tiny corner. I think it's important to follow Section 150 in terms of its 3:6 regulation for 7
commercial-use buildings. 8
9
Finally I kind of want to talk a little bit more about the public benefit, which is that – I believe 10
that the – I understand that while the population in Palo Alto is aging, how do we make sure 11
that people are able to live here? Like I guess for me, how will the direct impacts be for me? 12
Like I'd love to be able to grow old in Palo Alto as well, but the cost here is – it's about 300K a 13
year to live at this establishment, and I don't know if I'll be able to afford that. In addition, like 14
given that it encroaches on my personal like kind of house that I grew up in, I'd love to be able 15
have some guarantee given that – like part of my own kind of wellbeing is impacted, that I'll be 16
able to hopefully live nearby as well. I also want to call out that in initial reports, the applicant 17
mentioned that reducing senior homelessness is part of the public benefit, but again, I point to 18
the cost as having – being kind of too expensive to really meet that goal. At the end of the day, I 19
want to say that I am just a concerned resident who grew up here. I just kind of want to express 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
my opinions, and I would love to continue living here and live and enjoy my existence. And I 1
also just want to thank the PTC for hearing me out for a little bit too long, I hope. We have 2
elapsed the 10 minutes, so thanks, Chair, for giv-, granting me that. 3
4
Oh, sorry, I had one more point, which is that I want to kind of talk about the changes that have 5
happened between the City Council original screening and now. The City – at a time when City 6
Council – when Council screened it, there were actually only 14 units, so I'm a little bit curious 7
about kind of where all these – the additional units are coming from. And also there – I don't 8
want to say that I'm like against them build-, I think like housing is important, but I do think that 9
there – the applicant has looked through and been able to identify different units that don't 10
impact the daylight plane. I believe there are seven of those, but folks can correct me if I'm 11
wrong. So I think those are all of my points, and I'd like to thank the PTC tonight for listening to 12
my comments. Thank you. 13
14
Veronica Dao: Next is John Balman, followed by Eleanor Lanuza. 15
16
John Balman: Good evening. I'm a resident of Palo Alto Commons, and I have observed, when 17
we're talking, mostly the concerns about the parking, and I've been there about a year and a 18
half and I really haven't seen any problems, other than special events, with spaces. There was 19
during the last construction cycle where they did use a few of the parking spaces for putting 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
materials, but those were removed and now I think all of the spaces are available. And I've 1
never pulled in there where there's not been a space. I think that there is a necessity to have 2
parking done along El Camino Way, which is done. I don't think that we should rely on any 3
private properties. Someone mentioned the Goodwill. I don't think they – their parking area is 4
for our guests. But what our members enjoy is the fact that they lived for quite a while in Palo 5
Alto. They still think of themselves as Palo Altans, and before, they supported Palo Alto with 6
their property taxes, with their volunteer work, and with all along coming a citizen of Palo Alto, 7
which they are now, but now a lot of them are too old to participate in that. But by leaving their 8
residence in Palo Alto, either putting them up for rent or selling them, they allow new families 9
to come to this area with children to get to enjoy the schools. 10
11
And we have a situation where Palo Alto Commons is providing a way to perhaps spread the 12
density, to where one individual living in a large house is something I think that should be taken 13
into consideration, where our community allows that person to leave that large home, making 14
space for families while they come to live in Palo Alto Commons. Now the construction aspects 15
of the parking is – that, I think, will have to be worked out with – that's not for the residents to 16
decide. That's more or less for management and the contractors and you. But I think that you 17
look at the – our back property line, and if you use the distance of the 6 feet and the height gain 18
of the 3 feet, most is clear. And yet if you look on the other side of the – right on the property 19
line, Wilkie Way rear lots are – they have sheds and older garages that are right on the property 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
line, but they don't really block – what do they call that? Like the umbrella plane that you put 1
over a piece of property. But as far as I can tell, I think that Vance Brown construction company 2
is doing a very conscientious job, and I think the staff and ownership at the Commons are trying 3
to reach a goal of providing units for people to live and some in the cases in the last years of 4
their lives. Okay. I don't think I can add any more to anything but – because of mine is more of 5
emotional than trying to tell you how many spaces we have for parking. 6
7
One thing that does happen both at 8:00 or so in the morning and at 3:00 in the afternoon is 8
that from East Meadow all along El Camino Way up to El Camino, parents dropping off their 9
children at Keys School and parents picking their kids up at 3:00 at Keys School makes El Camino 10
Way almost like a parking lot. Bumper-to-bumper traffic because the kids aren't out of school 11
yet but they're in line, and so that kind of almost im-, makes some of the available parking 12
along the curb impossible because you can't get through it. They're bumper to bumper, so if 13
you were to check to see how parking is during that time of day without realizing that happens 14
five days a week, it could affect your thinking about availability of our spots. But again, I'd like 15
to remind everyone that it's seldom when you think, "Oh, I don't have a place to park." And I 16
can't speak for some of the volunteer or the professional that aren't employees but are 17
caregivers, when they come to take care of a resident. I'm not – I can't speak on what their 18
parking situation is. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Thank you. 1
2
John Balman: Okay, thank you. 3
4
Veronica Dao: Next is Eleanor, followed by Paul. 5
6
Eleanor Lanuza: Chairman, City Council members, WellQuest staff and our team, residents at 7
The Avant and Palo Alto Commons, ladies and gentleman, good evening. My name is Eleanor 8
Lanuza, and I am one of the directors at The Avant and Palo Alto Commons. So I'm here to 9
speak about who we are and what we do. Palo Alto Commons has been family owned and 10
operated since 1990, and we are managed by WellQuest Senior Living. We have enjoyed great 11
word of mouth, having worked with so many families in Palo Alto, nearby cities, such as Menlo 12
Park, Atherton, Los Altos, Mountain View, and the surrounding areas, for the past 34 years. We 13
provide premier assisted living with different levels of care in a beautiful home-like 14
environment, and we are unique in a way that we are able to – we are a month-to-month rental 15
community. We are not a buy-in community wherein people buy in a unit, but at Palo Alto 16
Commons, they rent the unit or the apartment and they give us 30-day notice if they are – they 17
would like to move out, so they are not tied up in a lease. We also have the continuum of care 18
available on site, so our residents are able to age in place because we have independent living, 19
assisted living, memory care, and we created a certain environment, which is only specific to us. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
I've been in the industry for a long time. There's nothing on the Peninsula – a community that 1
can compare to what we do. 2
3
So what we did was we created a separate environment wherein high level of care is available 4
to our residents and that they can age in place. So for instance, we have 24/7 nurse on staff. 5
We have – our employee retention is very high, and loyalty and reliability and accountability is 6
what we expect from our care personnel. And having 24/7 nurse on staff, having high – more 7
people – I mean, high employee retention, there's consistency in the care that we give to our 8
residents, so we can give – we use Hoyer lift, stand lift. We can do injection. We can do oxygen 9
management. We can do feeding. We have palliative care and also hospice care. That means 10
that the residents can stay and age in place at Palo Alto Commons and The Avant. 11
12
Again, the bottom line is the quality of life. We give them the physical care, spiritual care, 13
activities that we have. We – our residents are able to enjoy a certain quality of life on site, so 14
we have entertainment. We have concert pianist, cellist, violinist, guitarist, chamber choir, 15
chamber music, opera music that we have inside the community as well as we have outings. 16
We take them to San Francisco to go to the symphony, wax museum, ice cream museum, 17
Golden Gate Park, aviation museum, MOMA. These are the activities that we offer to them, and 18
on Sunday – Saturdays and Sundays, we're able to take them to the synagogue or the Catholic 19
churches or Congregational churches. And so all through the past three – more than three 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
decades, Palo Alto Commons has served and cared for the elderly, our residents. And truly, we 1
have made a lot of difference in the lives of so many families, and we will continue to do so 2
with our mission to be of service to our seniors, their families, and local – and our local 3
community. 4
5
Veronica Dao: Next is Paul, followed by Thelma. 6
7
Paul Ziots: Hi, I'm Paul. It's hard to follow the past two people, especially this gentleman. He 8
couldn't have said it much better. Thank you. I first moved to Palo Alto in 1995, and over the 9
past 29 years, I've either lived or worked in Palo Alto for about half those years. My mother has 10
been in this facility for about four years, first at the Avant, then at Palo Alto Commons, and now 11
she's in memory care. And what I've learned through painful experience is that it's not just 12
more care that's needed. It's the quality of care. And I learned this the hard way because for a 13
short period of time, I moved my mother out to be closer to where I currently live. I've been 14
hands-on caregiver, and back especially three, four years ago, I was visiting her at least two or 15
three times a day. There was a lot of talk about parking, so I guess I'll mention my experience. 16
Not once have I ever had to park on the street, even coming two or three times a day for many 17
years. Not to say other people don't have problems, but I never did. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
There's clearly going to be a need for more care facilities as we all get older, especially for 1
people who have grown up in this community or have lived in this community for many, many 2
years. I know some residents who sell their house and use that money to pay for their stay in 3
this community. Palo Alto – it's hard to find a place in the country that has better return on 4
your housing value, so enabling them to stay in their community or near their adjacent 5
community – because let's face it, Mountain View, Los Altos, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, we're a 6
community. It's not just Palo Alto. The quality is unmatched at this place. I had to bring my 7
mother back even though I don't currently live here, and thank God I could bring her back 8
because they found space for her. It's not in the ideal place that I would've wanted her to be in, 9
but I took what I could get because her health, maybe even her life, was in danger at the other 10
places I had taken her to. They looked beautiful, they were more spacious, but they didn't have 11
the skill or the quality of care that they have at this place, including things like being able to 12
help a person with dementia be able to take their medications. Sometimes it takes two, three, 13
four, five, six, or more times or two, three, or four different people to try to make that happen, 14
but they do it. 15
16
They care more than almost any other place I can imagine, and I'm convinced that 80 percent of 17
the places out there, while they're needed, don't match up to the care that's necessary and 18
required. So this facility in particular I'm very passionate about because not only have they, I 19
believe, helped save my mother's life but they've helped prevent a disaster for me because I'm 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
one of those workaholics. And I've devoted most of my life to my work and my family, and I hit 1
a breaking point. And the only way that I was able to avoid having a major catastrophe for 2
myself is because of these people, Li Li especially. But without getting into too much personal 3
detail, I hit my limit and I was unable to be able to get the help I needed at other places. This 4
place knows how to do it, plus they care. They have the heart, and they care. This place in 5
particular needs to be able to accommodate as many people as possible, especially since many 6
of them are from this community. I'll just mention one more thing. I think the first person 7
mentioned the cost. When my mom was in assisted living, the cost was not $300,000. It was a 8
third of that. It was very reasonable. Of course, it's more now in memory care, but I mean, I'd 9
mortgage my house to pay whatever's required to enable her to have the care that she has 10
right now. Thank you. 11
12
Chair Chang: Thank you. 13
14
Veronica Dao: Next is Thelma, followed by Charles. 15
16
Thelma Ackley: I'm Thelma Ackley. I live at The Avant next door to Palo Alto Commons. We're 17
all – we're one community. I've lived there – it'll be nine years in September. I'm 96, I'll be 97 in 18
a couple of months, and it is the most wonderful place that I could ever have picked to live. I 19
did go and look at a lot of them around here, and the food here was the best. And my daughter 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and my checked them all out, and this is a fabulous place. We have wonderful activities. We 1
have outings. The staff is just marvelous. There's hardly any cha-, turnover, which is another 2
good thing. The people that work there stay, and it's just been a marvelous experience for me. 3
And I just hope I'm there another three or four years and I can make it. Thank you. 4
5
Veronica Dao: Next is Charles, followed by Patty. 6
7
Charles Mangee: Good evening. I'm Charles Mangee, and I live at 4041. You know the street. I 8
was born and raised on a farm, lived on that farm for 17 years until I went into the Air Force to 9
serve our country. My parents inculcated in me the necessary role of taking responsibility and 10
stewardship for the land, and so I thank you all for being willing stewards of the land here in 11
Palo Alto. It's a hard job, and for you to dedicate yourselves, your time, your talent to do this 12
job is wonderful because listening to all this detail tonight is not an easy job. So I thank you very 13
much for that. [Gloria 1:21:21] and I have lived here now for 20 years. We moved out here 20 14
years ago because, like most people, our grandkids sort of convinced us to come here, so we've 15
had the opportunity to grow up with our grandkids here in Palo Alto. Learned a lot about it, 16
love the town. The thing that's saddened me over the last few years is it just distresses me to 17
drive down El Camino and see RVs and things like that parked along the curb because people 18
can't find places to live. I get treated at Stanford Hospital. My nurse oncologist tells me she has 19
to commute to Palo Alto from her home in San Francisco because she can't find adequate 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
housing here. My grandchildren's teachers, many of'm can't find adequate housing here in Palo 1
Alto. 2
3
As we all know, there's a problem. We need more good, adequate housing, and unfortunately 4
there's a – the NIMBY problem sometimes causes a difficulty in trying to come up with solutions 5
that are workable for more people to live here. And as the gentleman over there said, we'd like 6
to retire here too, and you can't even retire in Cal-, in Palo Alto. So I would suggest that – oh, 7
one other thing. Parking. I think – didn't, in the last six months or so, the City suggest that we 8
could have less parking spaces required for buil-, in terms of building? Things like that are going 9
on. We're starting to realize the fact that more adequate, good multiple housing is very 10
effective in solving the problem we have and – oh, parking. I have a parking spot in a garage. I 11
haven't had a catalytic converter stolen or my car broken into. It's kind of nice because I notice 12
a lot of people here in Palo Alto have to park their cars in their own driveway or on the street in 13
front of their house. So The Avant, the Commons serve a very important need. They serve a big 14
human problem necessary to be solved in this city and throughout the rest of California as a 15
matter of fact. 16
17
So once again, I thank you for sitting here and listening to a lot of detail. I just marvel at – I see 18
your fingerprints all over things. Today I guess the City announced that they're going to start 19
enforcing the parklet rules. Your fingerprints are all over the parklet decisions. You did a lot of 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
work on that, and there's a lot of things you do that people don't even know about, so thank 1
you very much for all the effort you put into it. 2
3
Veronica Dao: Next is Patty, followed by Aaditya. 4
5
Patty Irish: So I am here also to discuss the adding of 16 additional units at the Commons on El 6
Camino Way. I'm Patty Irish, a 16-year resident of Channing House, also a wonderful place for 7
people to age, a community here in Palo Alto. Earlier in my life, I served 10 years on the Palo 8
Alto Housing Corporation Board, now Alta Housing, and on the staff at the Peninsula Habitat for 9
Humanity in San Mateo County and also 9 years on the Channing House Board of Trustees and 10
more recently on the HUD Stevenson House Board. The Commons was built over 30 years ago 11
by Bill Reller and his wife. Bill Reller and his family have been major contributors to Palo Alto 12
and the wider community. The Commons office – offers – and you've heard this, but you just – 13
you have to really, really believe it. They offer services for persons who need assisted living and 14
dementia care. Those living in our community who have a need, and many do, can apply 15
directly. I have known over 10 persons who have lived out their lives there and received 16
extremely good care. When I was on the Channing House Board, the CEO, [Matt Zamoto 17
1:26:09], led an out-of-the-box task force to visit the best dementia programs in the region. We 18
went from Los Gatos to Mount Tam. The only one we visited locally was the Commons to see 19
their excellent dementia program. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
You may realize how many skills, and people have been saying this, are necessary to operate 2
assisted living and dementia programs. Dedicated, trained staff. The residents need safety and 3
protective environments and stimulating programs. It is a real challenge to provide those 4
services, and this place does. With many more seniors living in Palo Alto, the need is increasing. 5
I call the Commons a tremendous asset here. The community needs to support it as a public 6
benefit. Please assist the Commons in adding 16 units to the caring, quality, cost-conscious 7
services they provide to people in need. Thank you for your attention. I hope you will give this 8
the strongest support you possibly can. Thank you. 9
10
Veronica Dao: Thank you. Next is Aaditya, followed by Michael. 11
12
Aaditya Divekar: Good evening, Council. My name is Aaditya. I'm a resident of the neighbor 13
across from Palo Alto Commons. I've been here my entire life. My little brother has been here 14
my – his entire life, so we've grown up here, have every intention of staying, want to be good 15
neighbors as well to Palo Alto Commons. Just want to address the – I guess the packet that we 16
got from the email, roughly in order, but I'll try to address the major points that we thought 17
were most pressing in terms of the construction. Not one of us wants the quality of care to be 18
diminished by Palo Alto Commons. We're not assuming that that's going to happen with 19
additional construction. We just want the construction to be done in the right way that's not 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
directly, I guess, aggravating us in the next 18 months during construction. So just to begin with, 1
we saw in the packet that it's roughly 18 months starting January 2025. We don't want it to 2
shorten at the expense of quality construction, but we wanted to know if there was a 3
reasonable amount of time where it could be constructed in, shorter than 18 months because 4
of our work-from-home situation. If we're in our homes and we do have to listen from 8 AM to 5
6 PM, which is the exact same time we're working, I think it would at least cause a little bit of 6
concern for us and – for us to figure out how we're going to work efficiently. 7
8
Directly behind my lot are the third-story additions, and I wanted to know specifically how 9
those – the trees as an idea to address privacy were going to be implemented. Directly in my 10
backyard, we've had tree issues concerning the gate and roots, that we've had to eliminate 11
some trees. We wanted to know if that was going to be incredibly close to the gate and 12
aggravate those issues with the root systems or be enough of a distance away. Seeing as 13
though it was just an idea in the packet, just adding clarification would be helpful. As far as the 14
public benefit, we agree we want to see senior housing continue. We just want it to be done in 15
the right way. There was a comment in the packet saying and asking – or requesting the 16
additional units to be moved to the non-Wilkie Way side of the Palo Alto Commons, only 17
because that side is facing business resident-, or business constructions rather than residential 18
constructions. The – I guess the obvious benefit to that would be no one is directly disturbed 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
from construction if people are already operating in their businesses rather than residences 1
who do have to look at it for 18 months until construction is complete. 2
3
Just to summate, privacy with the third-story view – or the third-story constructions. We would 4
love to see those be addressed with some considerable thought. At the moment, I can see 5
directly into the second story, and so I do have a genuine concern about seeing a third story 6
and being able to see into the room and vice versa, them seeing into our lot as well, which I 7
don't think works for either of us. I think we both want privacy on either side of the gate. The 8
noise study, I do want to see at least another study being done at a different time of the year or 9
different time of the day because it was done at the – kind of the – roughly the same time over 10
four days in a row. So even four days throughout the month or throughout a quarter of the year 11
would be a little bit better to understand what the nature of the parking and congestion 12
problems are for noise and parking in addition to how that may be spilling over into Wilkie 13
during big events. Yeah, I'm just making sure I got some of the points addressed. Yeah, I just 14
want to say we – we're not in any way denying the amount of care that's given by Palo Alto 15
Commons. We do appreciate that senior living does exist in Palo Alto. We want to see a 16
considerable effort throughout Palo Alto, not just to add 16 units to an already saturated lot of 17
121. We want to see hundreds more units being built because seniors are going to be aging into 18
a bigger demographic group in Palo Alto. So that's all I have to say. Thank you. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Thank you. 1
2
Veronica Dao: Next is Michael, followed by Mona. 3
4
Michael Ji: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Michael Ji, a Wilkie Way resident. I'm 5
here tonight to strongly oppose the proposed expansion project, 4075 El Camino Way, for 6
several reasons. I understand Palo Alto Commons is a corporation able to afford to pay 7
expensive lawyer and other professionals to make the project their way for their best business 8
interest. However, I also expect Palo Alto Commons ask the neighborhood and be a good 9
neighbor. First I must address the blatant violation of the current daylight plane regulation as 10
outlined in Palo Alto Municipal Code 18.38.150E. According to Palo Alto Municipal Code 11
18.04.30 definition, the property is correctly classified as a through lot, not a corner lot. 12
Therefore, Wilkie Way functions as a rear yard where the daylight plane should start at a height 13
of 10 feet with a slope of 3 feet deviation for every 6 feet distance from the side or rear 14
property line. The proposal deviation from this standard of only 10 feet with 45-degree angle is 15
clearly disregard of these crucial regulations. 16
17
Secondly, the proposed expansion aggravates the existing issue of floor area ratio (FAR) excess. 18
The current property is definitely built – is already densely build with FAR of the original 1.18:1, 19
which already exceeding the CN FAR standard, which is 0.1 – 0.9:1. Further increase in density 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
as proposed will [inaudible 1:35:38] the parking and the traffic congestion for our 1
neighborhood. With additional 6895 square feet, the FAR should skyrocket up to 1.25:1 ratio. 2
Given the absence of regulation PC FAR, the general concern is the owner may seek even higher 3
FAR in the future, resulting of detrimental consequences for community quality of life, of 4
course the value of our property value. Thirdly, perhaps the most crucial, we must question the 5
proposed public benefit of this expansion. The project failed to present clear advantage of 6
public sphere. Instead, it's posed a direct threat to our daylight access, personal space, privacy, 7
and overall quality of life, thereby undermining our property value. For instance, we have 8
longtime neighbor which is retired teacher of Palo Alto Unified School District recently depart 9
after 60 years, [inaudible 1:36:56] and its associated impact rendered the retirement 10
untenable. As residents of Wilkie Way, we are integral member of public who is bearing the 11
brunt of these expansion repercussions. We stand to lose [inaudible 1:37:19] dignity without 12
any substantial evidence of tangible benefit according to Palo Alto seniors and wider 13
community. Therefore, I implore the commissioners to demand the comprehensive study 14
illustrating how Palo Alto seniors will derive general advantage from the PC project. Thank you 15
for your time. 16
17
Chair Chang: Thank you. 18
19
Veronica Dao: Next is Mona, followed by Jenny Chen. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mona He: Well, I just found some articles I want to show you guys before I speak, sorry. 2
3
Chair Chang: This is just a reminder to all the speakers. Please make your – make sure you're 4
speaking directly into the mic because otherwise it's hard for us to hear. 5
6
Mona He: Oh, okay. Can you hear me? 7
8
Chair Chang: Yes, that's much better. Thank you. 9
10
Mona He: Okay. Okay, good evening, Commissioners, everyone, all the senior residents 11
commenting. Nice meeting you. First of all, I like to say that we – well, at least – we are Wilkie 12
residents. We're not objection for the senior housing. We don't have objections for assisted 13
living. We do not have objections against the Commons. All we here try to say is we want the 14
building ordinance to be followed because we have rules. We have laws. We live in the civilized 15
communities. We're not somewhere you can just – anyone come here, plead the case, and then 16
just say, "Okay, we want to build this one. Let's use the 37-years-ago zoning ordinance to apply 17
this situation." I think that's wrong. We should apply the current laws, current rules, and we all 18
live under the same rules. I already passed you guys that situation, so I observe that ordinance 19
PC 5116, which is after combine the Palo Alto Commons with Avant together, so that's create a 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
new zoning ordinance. It's called PC 5116. So that specific – that document, Section 4B 1
specifically says the development standard needs to be followed, the PC ordinance. So we're 2
here just request the commissioners should – will follow the rules and direct the Palo Alto 3
Commons they should revise their plan to follow the rules. 4
5
Another thing, as I was reading the staff comments that say when they talk about it, when they 6
submit the prescreening to the City Council members, it seems like to me that map is using a 7
5:3 slope – no, 6:3 slope, and after that, when the plan was submitted, it was switched to 45-8
degree angle. That seems like bait and switch to me. So that is another thing I'd like to point 9
out. It doesn't seem like right. You tricked the City Council to approve your plan based on 10
something, and then you in turn switched to something else. That is really not acceptable 11
behavior to me. It's not honest. So then I – okay, so now I'm going to talk about – this is the 12
comments I heard from the staff comments and all the commissioners were talking about 13
during the meeting. So I'm going to talk about what I try to speak. 14
15
So regarding – hypothetically assume the Commons is considered itself to be 60 percent 16
residential even though the staff already report it's not a con-, residential unit, should not be 17
even considered to be using the R1 daylight savings plan. Hypothetically speaking, I read their 18
attorney's letter talking about the Commons lot is a corner lot, which is not corner lot. Corner 19
lot is – oh, it's the Goodwill. Goodwill is the one have two street butting together, create a 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
angle which is less than 135 degrees. That is called corner lot versus the Commons. Commons 1
do have a street on West Meadow and El Camino Way. However, they do not, on the Commons 2
lot, create a corner. So there's no corner created on the Commons lot by the street of joining 3
Palo Alto – El Camino Way and West Meadow, which make – disqualify Commons are call 4
themselves a corner lot. If there's not – this is not a corner lot, then this lot is a through lot, so 5
by definition, the through lot front lot line is the one primary access to the lot. So the primary 6
access by Commons is El Camino Way. They're using El Camino to come in and out. The parking 7
structure's there. The refusal collection's there. The EMT, I guess, is coming there, fire trucks, 8
everybody coming through El Camino Way, so that is their front lot. 9
10
So that make the rear yard – their rear yard lot line is abutting Wilkie Way, so if they are really 11
want to use the residential zoning ordinance, then they need to follow the 16-foot setback, and 12
then they have to go by 45 degrees at aver-, at the 16-foot setb-, no, 20-foot. I just checked the 13
zoning ordinance. It's a 20-foot setback, and after that, at 10 foot, you can go 45-degree angle. 14
However, Palo Alto Commons does not have 20-foot setback. They're using a 10-foot setback, 15
so that means they have to adhere the current slope for 6:3 slope that is required on special PC 16
ordinance. So that's one I was talking about. The – in terms of talking about how do you… 17
18
Chair Chang: We're up on time, so… 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mona He: Oh, I'm sorry. 1
2
Chair Chang: …thank you. 3
4
Mona He: Okay. 5
6
Veronica Dao: Next is Jenny Chen, followed by Jennie. 7
8
Jenny Chen: Hi, my name's Jenny Chen, and I've been living on Wilkie Way for 20 plus years, 9
and I do like to speak to the parking problem. I hear a lot of numbers being thrown out, 55, 57, 10
54. I think those numbers are almost meaningless because you have to look at the reality, and 11
the reality is people do park on Wilkie Way from the Palo Alto Commons. I was surprised to 12
hear that two weeks after the last meeting, so that would put it around late February, early 13
March, a letter was sent out by Palo Alto Commons to ask to staff or visitors not to park on our 14
block, but I can tell you exactly on April 1, 10:46 AM, I saw a lady park on our block and walk to 15
Palo Alto Commons. And why, I don't know. If there's really plenty of space, why are they 16
parking on our block? Our block is about another block to two blocks away from the Palo Alto 17
Commons depending on where you park on Wilkie Way. Why are they spending the extra time 18
and energy to park on our block if the spaces are readily available at Palo Alto Commons? So I 19
think the 55, 50-some numbers are meaningless if the spaces are not being – are not obvious or 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
they're not readily accessible or people don't know about it. So even if they have 100 spaces, 1
it's like you have 25. It doesn't really matter. So I think we have to look at the reality. 2
3
And I've been living there for 20 plus years. I pay taxes. I volunteer in schools too. I think – I 4
would like to come home and be able to find a parking space near my house. I don't want to 5
drive a block away to find a parking space. So I think the parking problem does have to be 6
addressed, and there should be a long-term solution. It should not be a solution just short term, 7
open the gate, let people in; after the building's built, close the gate. So it sh-, it has to be a 8
permanent long-term solution. Thank you. 9
10
Veronica Dao: Next is Jennie, followed by John. 11
12
Jennie: Hello? Good evening, Commissioners and everyone. My name's Jennie, and I'm a 13
resident of Wilkie Way. I'm here to express my opposition to the proposed expansion project at 14
4072… 15
16
Chair Chang: Can you speak into the microphone? 17
18
Jennie: Here? Oh, this is better? Oh, sorry. Sorry, 4072 El Camino Way for 3 reasons. First, the 19
proposed expansion violates the current daylight plane regulations, specifically Palo Alto 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Municipal Code 18.38.150E. While the details already explained by a lot of people, so the 1
conclusion is the proposed 10 feet with 45-degree angle does not comply with this regulations. 2
Well, we all – Mona here just mentioned. This is a civilized world. We all – we have a regulation. 3
We need to follow that. We're not here to fight, say, well – to ask for exceptions. Second, the 4
floor area ratio issue, FAR. The proposed expansion as 6895 square feet per the staff reports. 5
That brings the FAR ratio to 1.25:1. Given the lack of regulation on PC FAR, there is a risk that 6
the owner might request even higher FAR in the future, leading to detrimental impacts on our 7
neighborhood's quality of life and property values. Third, the question of public benefits. The 8
extension does not seem to provide clear benefits to the public. Instead it threatens to diminish 9
our daylight, space, privacy, and overall quality of life, thereby lowering our property values. 10
For instance, a longtime neighbor, a retired PAUSD teacher, recently moved away after 60 years 11
because the increased density and its impacts made it impossible for him to enjoy his 12
retirement life here. 13
14
Well, the residents in the Palo Alto Commons earlier mentioned, oh, they enjoy the life in the 15
Palo Alto Commons, but then neighbors, we are – we don't enjoy our future retirement life in 16
our own home. People forced to move out. Us residents of Wilkie Way, we are part of the 17
public who will suffer the consequences of this expansion. We stand to lose much without clear 18
evidence of tangible benefits of Palo Alto seniors or the broader community. I urge the 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
commissioners to request a study demonstrating how Palo Alto seniors will benefit from this PC 1
project. Thank you for your time and consideration. 2
3
Chair Chang: Thank you. 4
5
Veronica Dao: Next is John, followed by Ted. 6
7
John Erving: Good evening, Commissioners. My name's John Erving. My wife [Christine 1:51:20] 8
and I moved to Palo Alto in 1972, raised a family there. I have observed a lot of change, and I 9
would say that most of it has been well managed as the commissions and the Council have 10
weighed the advantages and the impacts and the mitigations to address the concerns of Palo 11
Altans. I first became involved and interested in the Palo Alto Commons when I learned that my 12
friend Bill Reller and his wife, Carolyn, planned to develop the Palo Alto Commons. I thought it 13
was an incredibly bold thing to do, financially risky, but because of the business acumen and 14
the character of Bill Reller, he was able to get financing at a very difficult time in the late 80s, 15
when I last spoke on behalf of the Palo Alto Commons, encouraging the community to approve 16
this project. On a personal level, my wife's father in his later years, in his 90s, moved in with us, 17
and we enjoyed his company for 4 years before his care needs exceeded our capacity to help 18
him at our home in Crescent Park area. And so he spent his last months at the Palo Alto 19
Commons, and I am greatly thankful for the care that was given to him in his last years. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
So change is a challenge for people in general, I think even though that many of the people that 2
live on Wilkie Way probably bought there since the Palo Alto Commons was there, and so it's 3
no surprise about what the impacts of that – of Palo Alto Commons is on the community. I 4
wonder if there's an underlying fear, which is a very normal thing and I don't denigrate this, 5
about what's the economic impact. They invested in this and what's the economic impact, and 6
so we get a lot of statistics about sightlines, light plane, FAR, and so forth and so on. When I 7
learned from Stephen Reller that there was opposition to their notion that they wanted to 8
expand their dwelling units by not even 10 percent, 10 percent, that there was opposition from 9
the neighbors, I said, "You gotta be kidding. Would you – I'd like to visit the site." I walked the 10
site along the fence line, which is densely planted with trees. There are some gaps. I think this is 11
a matter of mitigation, that Palo Alto – your – you and the Council would say, "Okay, this is 12
something that needs to be done for the benefit of the community." There are things that can 13
be done. Okay, so here's one: more planting. The applicant is willing to plant trees along the 14
property line wherever there are gaps so that the visual potential problem is mitigated. There 15
are trees that'll grow 60, 70 feet high. So that's the sightline issue. 16
17
As to parking, there are other areas in Palo Alto and where we live, there's a process where you 18
have to have a sticker to allow you to park on the street. Otherwise if you park for more than 19
two hours, you're open to citation. So it seems to me that there's a management opportunity 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
here where employees get stickers, so traffic counts can deal with the reality of what the 1
parking impact is. So let's know that there are solutions here. The big picture is this is a 2
proposal that is – significantly benefits the community, and just think about it. There is now – if 3
the Rellers were interested in making the biggest amount of money, they would propose what's 4
called the builder's choice, which I think you're all familiar with, that they could come in and 5
level that place and build a 20-story structure until the City of Palo Alto comes in compliance 6
with the state regulations about their general plan. There are many applications that are 7
forthcoming, and I would suggest that the neighborhood would… 8
9
Chair Chang: You're up on time. 10
11
John Erving: …would appreciate the… 12
13
Chair Chang: Please wrap up. 14
15
John Erving: …conservative nature of this proposal, and I hope you will approve it. 16
17
Chair Chang: Thank you. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Veronica Dao: Next is Ted, followed by Lilly. Oh, so no Ted. Lilly, and then followed by Zoom 1
speakers. 2
3
Lilly Lee: Good evening. Hello, Commissioners and Staff. Thank you so much for the opportunity 4
to talk with you about this project. My name is Lilly Lee, and I live at 4080 Wilkie Way. I've been 5
there since 2003, and for 4 years before that, I lived a few blocks away. Last time, my husband 6
and two children also came to speak. They're not available today, but I will do my best to 7
represent them. I have raised both my children here, and they have gone to school every single 8
day in this time frame that the resident John talked about. And before 9:00 in the morning 9
when – and also around 3:00, when there's huge crowds of bicyclists, walkers as well as traffic, 10
that makes me very concerned for their safety. And I also wanted to mention the parking. As 11
many people have discussed, I appreciate the good efforts that the facility has made to 12
implement new procedures that may be helpful. However, as some of you have seen when you 13
actually went there yourselves, even the good faith efforts on their part may still not work 14
because the reality is more people there, more traffic, more parking. I have myself talked with 15
folks parked in front of my neighbor's house that I knew were visitors at Palo Alto Commons, 16
and there's only so much that the best procedures can put in place to help. 17
18
I appreciate that there was this discrepancy in what we heard about whether private caregivers 19
can use the parking or not. I heard the same thing that seems contradictory before to what we 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
are hearing tonight. There's just some confusions and inconsistencies that you've already noted 1
yourself. I also wanted to mention the property values. We've had four appraisals done over 2
the years, and in three out of those four, the appraisers deducted value due to the presence of 3
the Palo Alto Commons behind us. And we expect with an expansion that that might reduce 4
even more. Privacy is another concern. We would welcome any of you to visit our backyard and 5
see what it feels like to be there, and I appreciate the changes in the locations of the new units 6
to reduce some of the effects. However, just the fact of being – these people being closer to us 7
will of course reduce our privacy. And then the last thing is community benefits. So I did read 8
Appendix G, so I appreciate the discussion of new painting and some, I think, new awnings, two 9
trees that were intentionally made small, and recycling and composting bin space and bicycle 10
parking. It wasn't clear whether that's for the benefit of the residents of the Palo Alto Commons 11
versus for people outside. 12
13
So that's good, but I also appreciate the commissioners asking about the in-lieu fees because I 14
used to work for city government and I remembered that there was often a negotiated 15
agreement between the city and the developers to bring community benefits if there's going to 16
be some community impacts. One example could be parks. However, I've been told by the 17
owner at one of these community meetings that because the residents aren't mobile that that 18
isn't something that would be of interest to the developers to add. So the last thing I wanted to 19
talk about was, we've heard a lot tonight about the value of the very high-quality senior 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
housing that is – sounds just very lovely, and I have no reason not to believe that this is a 1
wonderful amenity for the people live there. And it may have been that it was more affordable 2
in the past. I did ask at one of these community meetings how much it would cost for someone 3
who wanted to move in to one of these new units, and the representatives, the owners 4
declined to answer that question. So I went on Google and found that a studio listed there 5
would start at $7,450 a month. Of course, that might not be correct, but that's the best I could 6
find. So if we expect that housing is supposed to cost 30 percent of someone's income, then 7
that would be 90,000 a year, which would mean you would need to have about a $300,000 8
income to afford that. And on average in the United States, for people… 9
10
Chair Chang: Your time is up, so… 11
12
Lilly Lee: Oh… 13
14
Chair Chang: …please wrap it up. 15
16
Lilly Lee: …oh, okay. Thank you. I submitted some written comments, and I hope that you will 17
consider those. 18
19
Chair Chang: Thank you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Lilly Lee: Thank you. 2
3
Veronica Dao: Next on Zoom, I had four people raise hands and then someone raised their hand 4
last minute, so five raised hands on Zoom. First… 5
6
Chair Chang: Well, I believe, Ms. Dao, that we're not taking public comments that come five 7
minutes afterwards. So who was the last raised hand? Do you know? 8
9
Veronica Dao: Daniel. 10
11
Chair Chang: Okay, so my apologies to Daniel, but we've got to cut it off at some point. Thank 12
you. 13
14
Veronica Dao: Okay, so first is Haley followed by Heather. 15
16
Haley Murphy: Hi, yes, good evening. While all housing types of – are in shortage, not only in 17
the South Bay but across the entire state, senior housing and in particular ones that include 18
independent living and assisted living and memory care units are in desperate need. The 19
current project already successfully provides over 160 homes for seniors. It – this is just asking 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
to add 16 more to the existing footprint, so I would encourage the Commission to please 1
approve the planned amendment tonight. Thank you. 2
3
Chair Chang: Thank you. 4
5
Veronica Dao: Next is Heather, followed by Jayashree. 6
7
Heather Davies: Hi, good evening, Commissioners. So my name is Heather, and I'm a 8
representative of Wilkie Way. I'm here to express my oppositions regarding the proposed 9
expansion of Palo Alto Commons, which I believe violates zoning codes and will negatively 10
impact our community. So firstly, the claim that Palo Alto Commons is a corner lot is incorrect. 11
According to the definition, a corner lot must have an intersection angle of 135 degrees or less 12
formed by 2 intersecting streets. The Commons lot does not meet this requirement and should 13
be considered a through lot. This misclassification has significant implications for zoning 14
regulations and compliance. Secondly, the proposed addition of the two- and three-story 15
buildings negatively impact our quality of life. As a resident of Wilkie Way, this expansion would 16
completely block our skyline, depriving us of sunlight and the open view we currently enjoy 17
from our backyards. This increased building height and density will create a sense of 18
overcrowding and reduce our privacy. Furthermore, Palo Alto Commons is already densely 19
developed and the new proposal exacerbates this issue. The current floor area ratio, or FAR, 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
calculations are misleading, combining residential and nonresidential ratios to justify the FAR of 1
0.9:1. The proposed FAR of 1.25:1 far exceeds the allowable limit, reflecting an 2
overdevelopment that our neighborhood cannot sustain. 3
4
Additionally, Wilkie Way is a dedicated bike path, crucial for the safety of many residents, 5
including students commuting from Fletcher and Gunn High Schools. The narrowness of the 6
street combined with the increased traffic and parking overflow from Commons employees 7
creates significant safety hazards and congestion. The parking study did not accurately reflect 8
the real situation as it failed to account for the shift changes and neighborhood street parking. 9
So in conclusion, the proposed expansion of Palo Alto Commons disregards current zoning 10
ordinances and negatively impacts the residents. I respectfully request that the Commission 11
enforce the current zoning laws and protect the rights and quality of life for all residents. Thank 12
you. 13
14
Chair Chang: Thank you. 15
16
Veronica Dao: Next is Jayashree, followed by our last speaker, Natacha. 17
18
Jayashree Divekar: Hi, my name is Jayashree Divekar. I live on 4054 Wilkie Way, and from my 19
backyard, I can see currently the residents and the rooms even though the trees are there. In 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the – during the daylight also and at night also because the lights are already lit in the rooms, 1
you can see from them in my backyard and I can see their rooms. I can see the beds, so the 2
trees, whatever right now are there, they definitely are not sufficient. So if the – they are 3
increasing again the property and adding the units, obviously there is no less – there will be 4
obviously less room again for the trees. And if the trees are coming very close to my property, 5
and as my son mentioned, the roots, again, that will be another problem, and even if they're 6
using the trees which will not be – I mean, those root-spreading trees, but still, if they're putting 7
the trees and high trees which will block their views, then it is blocking my sunlight. So either 8
way, that proposal, what about the trees and the blocking, is not going to work, at least for my 9
property, definitely. And rest of the technicalities, people have already mentioned. I'm not 10
going to repeat it. 11
12
I definitely respect the senior facility and the sentiments and the need for the community, but 13
that shouldn't be on behalf of my property value. And definitely when we bought the property, 14
yes, we knew that Palo Alto Commons was there, but every – we care they are adding the units, 15
adding the upper floors. That, I didn't sign it for when I brought the property. So my property 16
value is definitely decreasing because of this, so I definitely – for the daylight savings – daylight 17
– the light, the parking, property value, all these reasons, I definitely would not encourage Palo 18
Alto Commons to add on more units for that reason. Definitely. I mean, that is not what I really 19
– when I bought the property for. Technicalities, they will come up with different technicalities 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and try to find a solution regarding the angles and this and that and parking, but at the end of 1
the day, the property value for me, it is decreasing and that is definitely a big issue for me right 2
now. 3
4
Another thing which I would like to see what they're going to do regarding the caregivers. So 5
the pro-, parking anyway it is a issue, but then the caregivers and the permanent – I mean, 6
permanent staff members or daily staff members. So that parking lots, whatever they have 7
counted for, is it accounted for? Because I see lot of parking which is taken in front of my 8
property line, and whenever I come home, I'm trying to find the parking and parking 9
somewhere else and carrying my grocery bags or whatever from blocks away. That doesn't 10
make any sense. So quite a bit of – I mean, even though I would en-, like to encourage the 11
increase in the senior living, I still oppose for this plan for sure. Thank you. 12
13
Chair Chang: Thank you. 14
15
Veronica Dao: Last speaker is Natacha. 16
17
Natacha: Good evening, everyone. Thank you so much for this opportunity to speak tonight. 18
There's no question that the Palo Alto Commons provide good service to our community. I have 19
a 15-month-old baby and a 3½-old baby son, and a few months ago we actually befriended a 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
resident at the Commons because we love elderly people. Me, myself, I'm very fond of older 1
people, and she became our friend and we visit them all the time. But I have to say that the 2
parking – I live currently at the corner of Wilkie and West Meadow, and the parking situation is 3
horrible and the traffic is horrible, and I worry about the safety of my children. Where I live, I 4
don't have a parking garage, and when I come home, most often there are cars along in front of 5
my house, both side. And I know people who park – who work at Goodwill and my – front of my 6
house is their permanent parking. And I've met many people from the Commons who work at 7
the Commons who I just chat with them and ask them why do they park in front of my house, 8
and they told me that they don't have enough space to park over there. 9
10
And then the other thing I noted when I went to visit my friend at the Commons is that on the 11
third floor, I was surprised how much I can see of the people who live on Wilkie, and there's 12
definitely a lack of privacy for both the Common residents as well as the residents who live on 13
Wilkie. And the reality is that the parking survey needs to be more thorough. I don't think the 14
survey really captured the issue with parking. As a mom of two children, having to drive around 15
the block to find a space to park and then dragging my stroller and my kid to get into my house 16
is not a fun experience that I want to do all the time, and with the proposed units, it's only 17
going to get worse. So I would really highly encourage the Commons to really do a thorough 18
survey of the parking issues to really ensure that the staff will park appropriately where they 19
need to park and decrease this [inaudible 2:13:38] to myself. Thank you very much. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Thank you. So that ends our public comments. It is currently 8:03, and we're going 2
to take a 7-minute break before we return to – back to the Commission. Okay, are we all back? 3
All right. So now I believe that the applicant can take a few minutes to – let me see how many 4
minutes. How many minutes is the applicant allowed to have, Ms. French? I can't find it. Ah, the 5
applicant has three minutes for rebuttal if they would like to address anything that came up. 6
7
Steve Sandholtz: Don't have a rebuttal but do want to clarify a couple of points. One comment 8
with respect to the parking guidance for private caregivers. Most of our regular private 9
caregivers that are coming on a daily basis and providing transportation for residents have 10
clickers to the garage. They're treated like family members of residents. They come straight in. 11
Other private caregivers that come occasionally to the property have been guided to park on 12
the street, so wanted to correct that. My team corrected me on that one, so wanted to clarify 13
on that front. With respect to privacy, which has been one of the expressed concerns of the 14
neighbors, we have added additional trees to the plan. So we are doing everything we can to 15
screen. There's a fairly consistent screening across the back property line with the current 16
trees, but we are proposing to add additional ones. And with respect to the comment around 17
our initial prescreening before we actually made formal application where we did use the 3:6, 18
we realized after doing that, that the existing building violated that. When we studied it, we 19
realized that the appropriate designation was the 45-degree angle. So from our formal 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
application on – and then as validated by Staff's own review of the code and the statues, the 1
45-degree angle was proved to be the right measure, and so we've used that in all of our formal 2
applications and our adjusted plan that we've submitted today. So the only comments that I 3
heard that I thought should clarify. Is there anything else we missed or that we wanted to add? 4
5
Steve Reller: I thought I was going to have a chance to speak before, but I guess I'm not public. 6
My name's Steve Reller. I'm one of the owners of Palo Alto Commons, and I just wanted to 7
reiterate the need for this housing. Everybody knows there's a housing shortage. Everybody 8
knows that Baby Boomers are getting older fast. There's about 50-thousand 85 and older 9
residents in Santa Clara County. There's going to be about 200,000 in 2060. This is a tidal wave 10
that's coming. This is 16 units that has impacts, but you will not see, I can just about guarantee, 11
another assisted living facility that provides the amount of care that this, or anything else for 12
that matter, for – with as little impact as this has. These walls are already there. They're getting 13
a little bit closer. The shadow study shows there's virtual no shadow impact. We've offered to 14
plant trees. We'll plant as many trees as they want, and they provide privacy but they make 15
shadows. Like, we're doing everything we can. We've met with the neighbors. 16
17
The traffic, there's cars on that street that are not from Palo Alto Commons. There's tons of 18
businesses around there. They have employees. They have customers. I don't know who's 19
parking on Wilkie Way. I don't know that we're totally innocent from being – parking on Wilkie 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Way, but there are a lot of residents that park on the street that live on that street because 1
they don't have garages that they use. There's ADUs. There's people that probably live in those 2
ADUs. They have cars. So to blame the whole parking situation on Wilkie Way on Palo Alto 3
Commons is just not right. So I really hope you'll at least just tonight approve this just to get it 4
to the ARB, which will come back to you, of course, before it goes to the City Council. So this is 5
just one step in the process. Thank you. 6
7
Chair Chang: Thank you. Okay, so then that brings it back to the Commission. So if anybody 8
would like to speak, please light them up. We're going to start with Commissioner Akin. 9
10
Commissioner Akin: Thank you, Chair. Let's see. First, a very heartfelt thank you to all of you 11
who've spoken. We could not do the job we do without the information that you bring to this, 12
so thanks, all of you. Personally, I believe the public benefits of this project are significant, and I 13
want it to move forward. At the same time, it really does impact the neighbors, and I want to 14
protect them to the extent that the law permits. I think that the applicant's attorneys on packet 15
page 142 have provided a very convincing argument that we should be treating this PC like a 16
residential use, not a nonresidential PC. Furthermore, as several people have mentioned, the 17
code is very clear that this is a through lot and the boundary that's shared with the Wilkie Way 18
neighbors is a rear line, not a side line, so those are the criteria we have to apply here. Taken 19
together, I think this implies something that Vice Chair Reckdahl mentioned the last time this 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
came before us, which is that the appropriate criteria are a 45-degree daylight plane and a 20-1
foot rear setback for the new construction. As was also mentioned, new construction needs to 2
abide by the rules that are in place today, not the rules that were in place an arbitrary number 3
of years ago. It looks to me from the plans like only three of the second-floor units would need 4
to be modified to meet these criteria, so I think this could be done without sacrificing any units, 5
although three of them would get smaller. 6
7
When the time comes to make a motion, I think we as the PTC should recommend that the ARB 8
listen to that. Sorry, this was a – historically, the ARB – the term ARB means something else to 9
me. At the – one other thing that came up was privacy many times. At the previous review 10
here, I asked about privacy screens and privacy glazing for windows in the Commons that face 11
the Wilkie Way neighbors, and I'd urge you to look at the individual review privacy guidelines, 12
which determine what kind of visibility you can have between R1 projects. They are really very 13
well designed and extremely useful, and I hope that the project architects are looking at those 14
as a model. You're going to find that the plantings are not going to be adequate for everyone in 15
every place, but privacy glazing and screening works no matter what the plantings are. So 16
please look into that, and that may be another thing I would suggest the ARB look into. 17
18
We still do not have a convincing parking solution, and the main reason for that, I think, is that 19
we don't have an accurate assessment of how much offsite parking is actually being used by 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Palo Alto Commons-related traffic. And I don't want you to let this slide because when you get 1
a TDM Plan, if it's going to be enforceable, you are going to have to have a way to measure that 2
parking use. You need it now to convince us all that you have enough parking as it is, but you 3
will have to repeat that process every year or every two years to validate the progress on the 4
TDM Plan. So you need to find a way to do that, and as someone else also mentioned, maybe it 5
was Lilly, there are other ways – there are a number of ways to do this, but look into it 6
seriously, please. Finally, we haven't talked much about the noise study, and I think that's 7
appropriate. I think the methodology and the conclusions from that study are quite satisfactory. 8
I don't believe there's going to be a noticeable change in noise as a result of the project. Even 9
during the summer when the HVAC is running heavily, the condenser units are not in direct line 10
of sight and have a substantial distance from Wilkie Way, so I don't think you'll be able to hear a 11
difference there. That's everything I had on my first-round list. Thank you. 12
13
Chair Chang: Great. Commissioner Templeton? 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. I echo the sentiments shared by Commissioner Akin 16
earlier that it was wonderful to hear many comments from both sides of this discussion, and 17
thank you for coming out here to our Ventura friends and to our Palo Alto Commons friends. It 18
was a lot more balanced discussion tonight. We were able to hear different views and 19
perspectives, and I appreciate you sharing them all. I also agree with – I'll start with the privacy 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
conversation that Commissioner Akin mentioned. It is an issue. It is an issue, and you'll need to 1
deal with it to have a good, strong relationship with your neighbors. This is the discussion we're 2
having tonight. How do the people who live next door to this project come to feel comfortable 3
with the changes that you're proposing, that you are advocating strongly for are extremely 4
beneficial to the community? I happen to agree with that. I think they will be beneficial to the 5
community, but I don't want them to be detrimental to your neighbors. So we – we're – it's 6
wonderful to hear how much progress you have made, and I heard about the concessions that 7
you made during your presentation, and I want our Ventura friends to recognize – or Wilkie 8
friends, I guess, to acknowledge that as well. You have received a lot of acknowledgment from 9
your conversations before. I recognize that you're not fully satisfied. There are still some things 10
you need to hear, but you've started the discussion. You've built a relationship, and we're going 11
to see tonight how maybe that helps everybody move forward. 12
13
Regarding the noise, I'm sorry, Mr. Aaditya, I don't remember your last name, but that our 14
public commenter brought up about the noise of construction. I'm slightly less sympathetic on 15
this only because my neighbor across the street has completely torn down and rebuilt their 16
house and we're looking at exactly the same thing. My husband and I work from home. I'm 17
there all the time. My window, if I open it to let fresh air in, all I hear is noise from the 18
construction. I totally sympathize with you, and if you want to reach out after, we can talk 19
about strategies. I have a few. But sometimes the reality is that many of the homes that were 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
built many decades ago need to be rebuilt, or if someone else is rebuilding theirs next to ours 1
and we haven't retrofitted for all the noise and insulation and other kinds of things, then we're 2
kind of having to deal with that. And it's – part of being part of this community is eventually the 3
whole stock of housing will be renovated in the next 50 to 100 years. That's just the way it is. So 4
I say that that's going to be a hard one. I don't know that they can compress their timeline. I'm 5
a project manager. I know it's hard to compress timelines, especially around construction. So 6
that said, it is a good point, and if you're working with the neighbors, that's probably something 7
else to think about. These are kinds of compromises and discussions that you can have to make 8
it work. 9
10
So – in any case, what hit me hardest today was that we've got needs that are mismatched. So 11
our Wilkie friends are having needs that are financial and enjoyment and dealing with parking – 12
I'm not even sure how to describe that. Like that's a need, and we're contrasting that with the 13
potential of having 16 new individuals or couples coming in with an existential need. And it's 14
hard to balance those out because they're both needs and they're both valid. So what we're 15
having to deal with is acknowledging that there are things that everybody wants and 16
sometimes you can't have them both or if you do, you have to compromise, and that's part of 17
being in a community as well. So I hope you guys will continue coming to the table and talking 18
about – and acknowledging that these needs that our Wilkie neighbors are having matter too. 19
And that doesn't mean they don't want people to have safe, happy, healthy senior living 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
facilities. That's – no one over here, I didn't hear any of them say that. So all that said, I do think 1
I agree with Commissioner Akin that we need to move forward and get the ARB in sight on this 2
as well, so thank you. 3
4
Chair Chang: All right, we've got Commissioner Summa and then Lu. 5
6
Commissioner Summa: Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you to everyone who spoke this 7
evening. I will also associate myself with comments already made by my colleagues, both on 8
how useful it is to have the public engaged in this way and how much it makes us do our – able 9
to do our jobs better. And I will add that my concerns are many of the same already mentioned. 10
I will say construction is always a problem for people who aren't doing the construction. The 11
logistics are managed by the City in their construction hours and allowable decibel levels. I will 12
say that this – every time I've ever been for any reason on El Camino Way, I am struck by how 13
there is no parking ever. I don't know at night, but – and so it's going to be really important 14
here to get construction logistics right so that the whole neighborhood works still. And I think 15
somebody might have mentioned already that it's likely that no one will be able to rely on 16
parking on El Camino itself in the future if, in fact, the City agrees to put – get rid of the parking 17
on El Camino across the city and put in bike la-, a shared bus and bike lane, and I also note that 18
the par-, the El Camino parking there is always taken. It's hard to go to the restaurants there 19
and stuff. So I think that's really important. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
And I think – I was very surprised that – at the brevity, to be nice, of the parking study. I think it 2
was sadly inadequate and a mistake to come – I also wondered about shifts, and I think it's 3
important to recognize this is a 24/7 business and when the shift breaks happen and how that 4
related to the time that the 3 – the 9 to 11 hours when it was taken and that that may not be 5
the time when most visitors come anyway. I don't know any of that, and I don't see a 6
breakdown of – I would like to see a breakdown of the parking behind the gate, in front of the 7
gate. I think it's broken down for how many visitor spots. It's really easy to see. I also – oh, let's 8
see. I think Commissioner Akin's recommendation to look into privacy screens and glazing is a 9
very good one. A lot of trees are deciduous. They take a long time to grow, and they have – 10
they do have the effect of providing shade where one once was able to grow, say, a vegetable 11
garden or something. I also – the letter from the applicant, Attachment G, that lays out what 12
they think the benefits are, I don't think is in-, it – I'm just trying to find it. It says something 13
about – oh, here it is. "Lastly with the proposed project," the last paragraph, "we'll be able to 14
add both short-term and long-term bike parking," is inconsistent with the zoning comparison 15
supplied on packet page 113, which says the existing PC has no bicycle parking and there will be 16
no change in what is being proposed. So that should be reconciled. 17
18
And most importantly – I mean, this is a PC, so we can break the rules if we want to, but I don't 19
think we should be relying on development standards and requirements in our municipal code 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
from the past. I've never seen that done before. When you build new on a property or 1
deconstruct and rebuild, it's always the current municipal code that is legally binding, not the 2
one it might have been built under. I mean, I can give a ridiculous example of that, but I think 3
that's the general principle. I've never heard of it done any other way, so those are my primary 4
concerns. And I want to say that I don't think there's a person in this room or – that does not 5
appreciate the value of this use. And it's been in this location a long time, but the idea is how 6
will you be most successful if you want to grow, so that's what we're looking at. That's it for 7
now. 8
9
Chair Chang: Commissioner Lu? 10
11
Commissioner Lu: Thank you. I really appreciate the conversation from both sides. I realize this 12
level of research and digging is not easy also on both sides. I just wanted to start with a brief 13
round of questions. Can Staff and/or Counsel comment on the applicant's letter for the 45-14
degree setback and also specifically address some of the residents' comments – Wilkie 15
residents' comments about, for example, what the updated PC 116 says or the PC amendment 16
process in general? 17
18
Emily Kallas: So we're happy to do that. Do you have any slightly more specific questions? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Lu: Does this ordinance, PC 5116, and the development standards here that 1
reference the – complying with the standards in the PC Zone, Chapter 18.38, hold weight here, 2
or how does that overlap with the PC referenced in the applicant's letter as well? 3
4
Emily Kallas: So PC 5116 is the PC that was established when The Avant was built, so it primarily 5
regulates that building. The section on the paper that was circled by the neighbor states that 6
the development standard shall comply with the standards proscribed for the PC Zone District. 7
That's true for all PCs. When a PC is established, those development standards, being whatever 8
the plan proposed with regard to setbacks, daylight plane, height, etc., floor area, become the 9
development standards for the code. So when we're looking at, "Well, what does the code 10
require for this property?" it is what the PC allowed, is the zoning code. Staff has – our practice 11
is to provide what like underlying and adjacent zoning codes are as a frame of reference, but 12
when it comes to what the requirements are, it's what is in the current PC. 13
14
Commissioner Lu: Can you also comment on the PC amendment process? Would we be 15
creating a brand-new PC and – yeah, how does amending work? 16
17
Emily Kallas: The process is the same as a new PC with regard to the number of meetings that I 18
had shown in my presentation. The new PC ordinance would be expected to reference both 19
currently established PCs. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Lu: Thank you. I just wanted to get some of the public comments clarified. I will 2
hold comments for the next round. 3
4
Chair Chang: All right. Commissioner Hechtman? 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. I'll start with a question and then go to comments. The 7
question is – I'm interested in the daylight plane discussion that is really coloring a lot of the 8
communications we've had and some of our comments up here, and I'm trying to get this clear 9
in my head. If the Palo Alto Commons were an apartment building, say, would its daylight plane 10
be the 3:6, the 45-degree, or something different? 11
12
Amy French: 45. 13
14
Emily Kallas: So in this case, the daylight plane per the 18.38 regulations, which is I believe what 15
you're referring to, it's actually based on what the adjacent… 16
17
Commissioner Hechtman: Mm-hm. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Emily Kallas: …use is, not what the proposed use is. And so regardless of the proposed use of 1
the building, 18.38 states what the daylight plane is, either – if it's based on a Low-Density 2
Residential District, then the daylight plane and setbacks can be defined to match the Low-3
Density Residential Zoning District development standards. 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: So is that the 45 or – is that the 45-degree daylight plane? 6
7
Emily Kallas: It can be because, again, if it's a rear or side would matter in that case. I think that 8
Caio had some additional information to add to this. 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah, thank you. 11
12
Chief Assistant City Attorney Caio Arellano: Caio Arellano, Chief Assistant City Attorney. So I 13
think that's… 14
15
Chair Chang: Mic. 16
17
Caio Arellano: …that's… 18
19
Chair Chang: We can't hear you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Caio Arellano: Good evening, Caio Arellano, Chief Assistant City Attorney. I think that's exactly 2
the right analysis, is "Is it a residential use or is it nonresidential?" And depending on the 3
answer there, you get to what the appropriate daylight plane would be, either 3:6, 6:3, I forget 4
how that ratio's specified in the code, for nonresidential use or 45 degrees for residential use. 5
Because in this case, the adjacent property is residential, so that's what you would apply. So if 6
the proposed project were… 7
8
Chair Chang: Could you move the mic so it's much closer to your mouth? 9
10
Caio Arellano: …if the proposed… 11
12
Chair Summa: Thank you. 13
14
Caio Arellano: …project were apartments and assuming the apartments – the apartment 15
complex had 60 percent of its gross square feet as residential, which I think is probably a safe 16
assumption, then we would apply a 45-degree angle for the daylight plane. 17
18
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, all right. And so – I – that was my understanding in that really 19
the issue here is that due to the absence of kitchens in these units, they're not considered 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
housing – they're not considered a residential use, at least for RHNA purposes, and so we're not 1
treating them – so if this were a new development, we wouldn't be treating it like an apartment 2
building, but because it's not new, it's been here since '79, and in '79 our rules were different 3
and did treat this type of use as a residential, Staff's recommendation is to basically continue 4
the sort of historic application. Do I have that right? 5
6
Caio Arellano: I think that's right. It's – it is tricky with PCs. 7
8
Commissioner Hechtman: Mm-hm. 9
10
Caio Arellano: I think we can safely and all agree on that. The – what the PC chapter of the 11
zoning code says is – and this is 18.38.070, second paragraph, "The development plan shall, as 12
approved by the City Council, become part of the zoning regulations applicable within the 13
respected PC District." So here, we have a development plan approved originally in 1987, and 14
there was another one but that's for The Avant. So the development plan approved in 1987 has 15
some drawings that depict a 10-foot setback and a 45-degree angle daylight plan, so if you were 16
to apply that development plan as adopted and approved in 1987 as the zoning regulations 17
applicable to this district, you get to that conclusion. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. All right. That took a little longer than I thought, so I'm going to 1
come back around for comments later. 2
3
Chair Chang: O-… 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. 6
7
Chair Chang: …okay, so I do have one question, and I want clarification on – the parking issue is 8
one that we've heard a lot about. In my mind, the biggest issue is that the PC has never been in 9
compliance with what it was supposed to do with respect to parking. In other words, the 10
commuter plan wasn't – there was no documentation that that's ever been put in place. So the 11
reason I'm asking about parking is I want clarification on how – so post remediation, about two 12
weeks after our last – the last time we heard this project at the PTC, the letter was sent out. So 13
who exactly is eligible to park behind the gate? Because in the letter, it says specifically that 14
private caregivers need to use public parking, and today I was told that visit-, only family and 15
the residents can use the parking behind the gate but then was told in person here that that's 16
incorrect. So I'm wondering what really is the policy. 17
18
Steve Sandholtz: The policy is family, residents come behind the gate; employees come behind 19
the gate. The letter that we specified did go out and was saying private caregivers that are 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
occasional, they park on the street. A number of our private caregivers that come on a daily 1
basis, basically have family access because they've been the family clicker and they're using… 2
3
Chair Chang: Okay, and what… 4
5
Steve Sandholtz: …the garage. 6
7
Chair Chang: …about visitors? 8
9
Steve Sandholtz: Visitors can access the garage. 10
11
Chair Chang: Visitors can access the garage. Okay. 12
13
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah. 14
15
Chair Chang: That's helpful because I do think there – that's how I visited the Commons is as a 16
visitor. 17
18
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: And – okay. So that's my question. Thank you. You can – I would like to align my 1
comments with those of Commissioner Akin. I also thank everybody for coming tonight and 2
giving us your time, and my hat's off to all the research that's been done by the private 3
residents because I know how difficult it is to familiarize oneself with our code. So nothing that I 4
say is meant to diminish the value of the service and the quality of the service provided at The 5
Avant and Palo Alto Commons, but yet I remain concerned about the impacts on the Wilkie 6
residents as I said last time, and it's unfair for the burden of any public benefit to rest on the 7
shoulders of seven households, all without compensation. So the two largest issues I see are 8
the size and the proximity of the large structure right behind their residences and then the 9
parking situation. Regarding the size and proximity of the structure, I think it's more than just a 10
daylight plane issue. There's also just a mass and bulk issue. If you go to any – I didn't go into 11
anybody's backyard, but you can tell from their front yard that there's this hulking structure and 12
it's very close. It's very close because – I think this was actually an error many years ago, but 13
we're using a residential daylight plane of 45 degrees but a 10-foot setback. Normally it would 14
be a 20-foot setback for a rear setback, and so part of the issue is because the building is so 15
close to the rear side of the Wilkie neighbors. 16
17
So I think the compromise – as outlined kind of by law, this is not a residential development, so 18
then the PC code would say that the 3:6 daylight plane applies. However, I think that we all 19
here in Palo Alto think of the people who live at the Commons as residents. They're not 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
temporarily there. They – so in spirit, these are residences, in which case, it would be the 45-1
degree daylight plane but a 20-foot setback. Now the building already goes to 10 feet within 2
the rear, so there's nothing we can do about that. I think we should grandfather that in, but I 3
think that all the new construction should be stepped back to at least 20 feet. And as 4
Commissioner Akin said, I think that only affects 3, maybe 4 units, and that way we have the 5
added benefit of 16 units of new housing for senior residents and this would be – our Wilkie 6
neighbors would be treated in a way such that they are getting what they would get if 7
somebody were to build an apartment complex there. And so that is the way I would try and 8
kind of balance the very real concern of our Wilkie friends as well as the public benefit of these 9
– of having these – this great service and what is a great need. 10
11
Our PC code says very clearly – so there – we were told at least in the past that if anything is 12
changed with respect to a PC, the process that they go thr-, that the PC has to go through to get 13
anything changed is essentially the same as creating a new PC, and what we ha-, and that was 14
also what Ms. Kallas just said. As – with the PC we don't have to adhere to any rules other than 15
the rules for establishing a PC, and the PC code very clearly says that there are special 16
requirements for any site that abuts an R1 Zone – well, a low-den-, yeah, RE, R1, R2, RMD, and 17
that those sites sharing any lot line where the use is at least 60 percent residential – and I'm 18
willing to say, okay, even though this is technically not residential, in spirit it's residential. But 19
then in that case, the interior yard shall be at least as restrictive as the interior yard 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
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requirements of the most restrictive residential district abutting each such side or rear sightline. 1
And so that's why I think it should be the residential 20 and 45, so that's what I'll say about that. 2
In my second round, I'll talk about parking and what I hope to see the next time this project 3
comes back, assuming that we move it on tonight. Commissioner Templeton. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. And thank you for bringing up the setback conversation 6
again. I have been kind of chewing on it since Commissioner Akin brought it up, and hearing 7
your thoughts as well is very helpful. What I'm stuck on is would it make a difference to the 8
Wilkie residents? I understand we're technically addressing something in the code, but what 9
material difference does it make? And I'm not sure that technical compliance is going to satisfy 10
the important needs that they've brought up, so I just want to throw that out there and make 11
sure that if we do make a requirement of the Commons, that it be meaningful. And I'm not sure 12
yet. Like we can talk about it more. But regarding the parking, I'm not even sure at this point 13
that having the Commons tell their staff again to stop being naughty and parking in the wrong 14
place is going to be any more effective than the last how many ever years they've tried that. 15
And I wonder if – it's not agendized, so if we can't include something about a parking program 16
in our motion, and that's a question for you Mr. Lawyer, then can we maybe just verbally say 17
that's an option available to you as a neighborhood community group that may want to seek a 18
program for your community? Like if we want to look at what's the most effective thing we can 19
do, and I think Commissioner Akin brought this up as well, like maybe it's encourage you loosely 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
to organize and come to Council with a request for a parking program for your neighborhood. 1
Okay, that's what I've got for now. Thanks. 2
3
Chair Chang: All right, Commissioner Akin. 4
5
Commissioner Akin: Thank you, Chair. Just a couple things on this round. One is if you haven't 6
read closely the letter from the applicant's attorneys, particularly on packet page 142, where it 7
talks about what qualifies as residential, to my mind this really put the question to rest. The 8
way the State treats this is very definitely residential, so I'm satisfied on that point. Let's see. 9
The other point was can we do something that makes a genuine difference to the experience of 10
the people on Wilkie Way? Well, one way I thought about approaching this was to give 11
direction to the ARB to say, identify the units at least, perhaps features of the building, which 12
have the greatest visual impact and find mitigations for those units. And while I think that's the 13
philosophically right way to go about this, without something that's really concrete and 14
quantitative, I think it's asking too much with too little chance that what returns will be 15
acceptable. So we really – if we're asking the ARB to do something, I think we really need to 16
provide some concrete guidance for them, so that was as far as I could get along those lines. 17
Thank you. 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: Could I ask you a quick clarifying question? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Yeah, go ahead. 2
3
Commissioner Akin: Sure. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: Do you think that telling them that it's coming back before us and if 6
it doesn't meet our needs, then we'll not approve it – like… 7
8
Commissioner Akin: I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand. Could you… 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: You're… 11
12
Commissioner Akin: …rephrase? 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: …you're saying that unless we come in with some of these technical 15
forcing factors, that the ARB won't comply, and… 16
17
Commissioner Akin: No, that wasn't my intent. 18
19
Commissioner Templeton: Oh, can you clarify? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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1
Commissioner Akin: Just that they won't know what our intent is... 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Can't we just say we want experience for the Wilkie residents to be 4
better? 5
6
Commissioner Akin: Yeah, that's where I started with this idea, but I wasn't able to come up 7
with anything that I thought was concrete enough to provide direction to the ARB that would 8
let them come up with something that would be acceptable to us. So it's – thus the search for 9
something that's a little more… 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: But will pushing it… 12
13
Commissioner Akin: …specific. 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: …back to 20 feet do that as – either? I mean, it's measurable… 16
17
Commissioner Akin: I think it's a good quantitative approximation of what that earlier squishy 18
statement was, that we can't do anything about the structures that are grandfathered in, but 19
we can do something about two things. We can make sure that the daylight plane is preserved, 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
which as we know is something the ARB cares about, and we can make sure that things don't 1
get any closer than the minimum allowed. And then for other issues, we have to use other 2
solutions like privacy glazing and screening, but for where the bulk of the building goes, simply 3
pushing it back and making sure the daylight plane is observed may be all we can do. 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: But isn't – so we're saying that the claim that the daylight plane is 6
currently preserved in the current proposal is not – it's confusing, and I'm just – okay, thanks. 7
8
Commissioner Akin: Mm-hm. 9
10
Chair Chang: All right, let's go on to Commissioner Hechtman. 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: So I want to thank all our speakers. I also want to thank the applicant 13
for the – what I consider significant revisions that they made to the plan since the last time they 14
were here. We expressed a lot of concerns, and I think a lot of those concerns were addressed 15
and, candidly, at no small cost to the applicant, losing 2 units out of what was 18. And so I 16
wanted to recognize that those efforts had been made. A lot of the focus here is really on the 17
interplay between this development and the adjacent residents, and on the daylight plane 18
issue, I guess – when I deal with a law that doesn't make common sense, then it makes me 19
want to fix the law so it does make common sense. And when I look at this use, it's a residential 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
use. Every use in a city has to fall into some use bucket. And this particular one, it's not open 1
space, it's not agricultural, it's not office, it's not retail, and it's not commercial any more than 2
an apartment building where they charge rent is commercial. It's residential. People live there. 3
4
I was thinking about college dorms. Probably everybody in this room, maybe, went to college, 5
and many of you lived in dorms and none of you had kitchens in your dorms. But you lived in 6
those dorm rooms. You were a resident of that dormitory, and these are residents. They're not 7
customers. They're not clients. They're residents, and so this is a residential use. And if it 8
doesn't qualify for RHNA, fine. It doesn't make it a nonresidential use, and if we need to look at 9
our code in the next zoning update to maybe fix that, then I think that should – that's 10
something the Staff should consider. But I think that its nature is residential, and so that 45-11
degree daylight plane should be applicable, and so I support the 45 for that reason as well as 12
Staff's analysis of sort of the continuity of the thinking at the time this was – this project was 13
originally approved. And as Staff has pointed out, whether we use the 45 or we use the 3:6 but 14
grant exceptions, which you're allowed to do in a PC because you make the rules, you get to the 15
same point, and so in one sense, I think it's an academic discussion. I think it's 45, and I think 16
that we've seen that they have pulled everything back to meet the 45, and I'm satisfied with 17
that. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
In terms of pulling back farther to the 20 feet for the new construction, I think it's always 1
dangerous to design projects from the dais, particularly when the people doing the designing 2
are not architects. So I think that that's an appropriate comment to make to forward to the ARB 3
where they do have a bunch of architects, but I think that's about as far as we should take it 4
because I don't know how functional – how many units are actually affected, how functional 5
they'll be if those three or four are reduced, and whether it will have any appreciable impact on 6
the neighbors closest to them. So – but I do think it's an appropriate thing to have the ARB look 7
at. Similarly with the privacy, I thought Commissioner Akin's point about window treatment is 8
definitely something that is in the ARB's purview and we should let them know that this is 9
something that can soften the impact of eyes upon you, and so they should definitely look at 10
that when they look at this project. Let's see. 11
12
Public benefit. To me, I just think it's clearly a public benefit to provide senior housing, and 13
there really – sometimes people struggle with this because we're not balancing the benefit to 14
our whole community with perceived detriment – private detriment. And I appreciate the 15
comments that we're getting from the neighbors about the impact that they fear will happen 16
when this large building next to them becomes somewhat larger. And one of our commenters 17
was starting to talk about change is hard, and I think that's right. Where I live, I have single-18
family homes on both sides of me and behind me, but because I do what I do for a living, when I 19
moved in what I did was imagine what's the most – what's the biggest, bulkiest thing that could 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
be built on all three of those and that's really what I can expect. And to the extent it doesn't 1
happen for some period of time, I get to enjoy more privacy than I have a right to expect. And 2
of course, once I bought that house, now people can built a 16-foot ADU within 4 feet of my 3
property line, and so there's – I have even less expectation. And so while I appreciate the 4
feeling, I think what we have to recognize is that people can build within the envelopes that the 5
City provides in the code, and that's really what you should expect rather than things to stay 6
they are. But I – having said that, I think the PTC is working to try to make this new addition as 7
compatible as it can be in consideration of the concerns that we're hearing from the neighbors. 8
9
Just a couple – so – but I do think the public benefit of senior housing is clear here. The final 10
thing I want to talk about is parking. We got a parking study, and I honestly don't care that it's 11
short because what it concludes is parking is adequate. And I'm not hearing the applicant say 12
that's wrong, and so I want to believe it's right and I want to hold the applicant to it. I want to 13
hold the applicant to "The 55 parking spaces on this site will provide the parking needed for this 14
use, other than a special event where there will be shuttles," and to do that, we need a strong 15
TDM. 16
17
And so when the TDM comes to us, that's really – I'm going to be looking at that. I think that 18
there should be clear guidance as to what the expectations are. I think that there should be 19
perhaps a one-year review of the satisfaction of those conditions, and in every TDM, there are 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
sort of a series of graduated steps. You got – you try the first two steps initially. If that doesn't 1
work, you go to step three. That doesn't work, you go to step four. I think we need steps in the 2
TDM that include removing or relocating that gate. Now I haven't been inside that garage, so I 3
don't know how much trouble that would be. I understand there's a reason to have it and some 4
security and privacy issues – or not privacy, but security issues. And so you never get to step 5
four and removing or relocating the gate if you can satisfy – if you can handle your parking issue 6
with the first three steps, whatever those are. And so it's really going to be on the applicant to 7
do it, but when this comes back I'm going to really want to see the TDM focus on parking so 8
that – because that is totally controllable and that is not an impact of this project that there's 9
any reason the neighbors need to experience. It's just not. So those are my comments. Are we – 10
I was just curious procedurally, do we – are we just providing feedback or are we making a 11
motion to send this to the ARB? Okay, motion. All right. Thank you. 12
13
Chair Chang: I have Commissioner Summa and then Lu again. 14
15
Commissioner Summa: Thank you. So I think what's tricky about this facility is some people live 16
the rest of their lives there and other people come for rehab and don't live there, and it's – and 17
in this case, it's different than an apartment or a senior – regular senior facility because it 18
provides all the services as part of the rent that people need to live there, and so if there's not a 19
legal – if it's not supported by the state law for us to have – to consider it a commercial use, 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
then we should look into that. But I think it's pretty tricky because I think it's pretty mixed. And 1
then I think the 20-foot points that were made were very good points, and I agree with them. 2
And there's an interior courtyard sort of area – and I've never been inside the Palo Alto 3
Commons, but I have a – I know someone who's there right now rehabbing but has no 4
expectation of being there for much longer, so it's kind of an in-between or perhaps both 5
situations. But I think the fact that when you move into an apartment building, you pay for the 6
rent and you pay for a parking spot maybe and – but you don't pay to have medical care 7
provided by the person you're paying rent to. So I think that's kind of tricky, but I realize it's pe-, 8
also people's homes, which is super important. 9
10
I was wondering, and this is a question for the applicant, how many people, between all the 11
different kinds of providers you have to have and the executive team, do you have working 12
there at a given time? And I assume that staffing is a little slimmer at night. I'm curious. And if 13
that was provided, I'm sorry to ask again, but I don't remember that – ever hearing that. 14
15
Emily Kallas: The proposed staff is on the cover sheet of the plans. It says that there is a 16
maximum of 54 there at any given time. The applicants might need time to reflect if – how 17
many – and then additionally two additional would be added as a result of this project. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Summa: So I'm sorry I missed that, but our packets – these were so small, I 1
literally – you have to ta-, you can't read them with reading glasses even. You have to take a 2
magnifying glass, which is pretty hard. So 54 – I still can't read it without a magnifying glass. So 3
54 is the maximum number that you have there, and that includes nurses and custodians, 4
everybody, so that's fine. And you have 55 spots. How could that ever accommodate visitors 5
and the maximum number of employees at the same time, plus the private caregivers? 6
7
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah, a significant number of our employees don't drive to work. They 8
rideshare, they use public transportation, they get dropped off. So in our analysis, we've 9
identified how many – kind of the percentage of our staff that is parking in the garage. The only 10
ones that really park there is our night shift, but then we only have about 10 employees in the 11
building overnight. Let me grab – and I'll give you kind of how that calculation… 12
13
Commissioner Summa: Thank you. And we haven't had great success in Palo Alto relying on 14
TDMs because they're not monitored rigorously, and that's why I would like to see a more 15
fulsome parking study. And I know it's harder to do to figure out who's parking on public 16
streets, but I know I parked on Wilkie Way when I went to look at Palo Alto Commons for my 17
site visit because there was no other place to park anywhere. Sorry… 18
19
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Summa: …but I had to. 2
3
Steve Sandholtz: …so our analysis identifies that 40 percent of our employees are typically 4
driving to work. So with an onsite staff of 54, it's commuting by car, 22, and that's with the 5
additional 2 workers that would be required with the expansion of the building. 6
7
Commissioner Summa: Sorry, so that… 8
9
Steve Sandholtz: So 22 of the parking spaces would be used by employees kind of during peak 10
shift hours. 11
12
Commissioner Summa: Okay, that's helpful. 13
14
Steve Sandholtz: Yeah. 15
16
Commissioner Summa: And do you – is that self reported from your employees that they get 17
there other than by single vehicle trips, or do you have a way of verifying it? 18
19
Steve Sandholtz: That's – it is our analysis of it. Li Li's our executive director. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Li Li: Yeah, we – well, we did a survey with our staff members to get to know how their 2
transportation way come to work, so that's the number we come up from. 3
4
Commissioner Summa: Okay, thank you for answering those questions. That's it for now. 5
6
Chair Chang: Commissioner Lu? 7
8
Commissioner Lu: Thank you. So I see a great need for assisted memory care and I want to 9
make this work, but I also want to make sure the Wilkie residents have a good quality of life. So 10
we need to follow our rules. We also need to get this through City Council. Just some 11
preliminary framing, I do think this should be treated as residential. I understand we have some 12
discretion here, and like Commissioner Hechtman was mentioning, common sense dictates this 13
is really where people live. And I think the – like Commissioner Akin referenced too, the 14
applicant's letter is reasonably clear about the ambiguities in Palo Alto code and also state 15
definitions, and I think it is extremely reasonable to treat it as residential. I also found the 16
reference to 18.38.70 that you shared earlier was really helpful. That helps clarify the City's 17
rationale for why the previous PC holds or PC development standards hold here. So looping 18
back a bit, I think we need to make this something that Council can ultimately accept too, and I 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
think a lot of the important potential compromises about residential parking programs will 1
really need to happen at a Council level. 2
3
So I wanted to flag a few points for the applicant's consideration as we – before we see this 4
again. So multiple fellow commenters referenced the timing of the parking study. I think getting 5
a comprehensive parking study that covers peak traffic times, such as weekend afternoons, 6
makes a lot of sense. I think that's data that both PTC and Council will need, especially if there's 7
some kind of compromise to be brokered around a residential parking permit system. I also 8
agree with Commissioner Akin and Hechtman about letting the ARB consider some of the 9
details about setbacks, window placements or treatments, and the effectiveness of planting or 10
the location and height and other details of planting. I think the applicant should go into that 11
ready to compromise based on my expectations of the ARB. So yeah, I hope we can see this 12
again with a bunch of these critical points clarified. And yeah, I hope we can get something 13
significant – I hope we can still – we can get a significant number of units added here. 14
15
Chair Chang: Okay. I'll do my second round, and then hopefully we'll be ready for a motion. So 16
regarding parking, I have to say – so thank you to the applicant for trying to put these signs up 17
and removing the employee only parking signs that were on the exterior of the gate. I would 18
say that tho-, the initial sign upon entry into the parking spaces, the group of seven that are 19
right in the entryway, that is too small. It was dwarfed by every other sign there. I had to go 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
around twice before I saw it because I said, "Well, they wouldn't put that in the presentation if 1
it wasn't there." As an example, it is one quarter the size of the really big colorful sign that says, 2
"This space reserved for future residents," and it was dwarfed by a sandwich board about an 3
event, and there are a number of other things there. So that's something that's easily solvable. I 4
was really disappointed when I called that line and was told, "Sorry, you get to park at Goodwill 5
or in public parking," because I thought that was exactly what we were trying to avoid. And so 6
my concern here, and we've seen this come before the PTC many other times, is it doesn't 7
make sense to me to reward noncompliance with more units, so I really hope that there – that 8
between now and the next time we see this, that we can see some – a robust study that shows 9
that there is compliance. 10
11
I counted at least 10 spaces behind the gate and none anywhere else, like the next two blocks, 12
so there clearly is a challenge there with – again, it may not all be Palo Alto Commons, but in 13
combination with the response I got when I called the helpline, clearly things aren't being done 14
the way they should be right now. All right. I would like to look at A5.7. I don't know if you can 15
pull that up for us, Ms. Kallas? And so the question from Commissioner Templeton was would 16
stepping back all the new construction to 20 feet make a significant impact in terms of what 17
this feels like to the residents? And so what the difference is can be seen in these drawings, so 18
it's 2 stories 10 feet from you versus 2 stories double the distance, 20 feet from you. So if you 19
look at – so unfortunately this – the correct version of this wasn't sent – wasn't – yeah, but you 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
can look at A5.7, and it'll give you some sense of what's going on. So Section J is a good 1
example. I don't have my reading glasses on, but I believe that the second – you can see that 2
the building is 10 feet from the property line, the first floor. The second floor addition is also 3
going to be just a little over 10 feet, so it's – I think it's 12 feet 7 inches or something like that? 4
5
So here we go. Yeah, I can see the big version in front of my – on my iPad. So my proposal is 6
that you back that new resident unit up by 10 feet so that the construction of the second story 7
starts at 20 feet because we can't back up the existing construction but we can back up the new 8
construction. And I spent many hours on this, going, "Is this feasible?" because I do want to see 9
these units built, but if you then cross reference to A2.2B, I believe, you can see that there's like 10
this weird – two, three, four, five – pentagonal-shape room. Yeah, that's it. So the pentag-, all 11
these – the shaded areas are the new rooms. If you look at the one that's second from the left, 12
that's the cross section that I'm talking about, and stepping it back 10 feet – again, I'm not – I 13
can't see exactly how it would happen, but I hope that the R-, it's unit 2, 3… 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 3:28:35] left or right? 16
17
Chair Chang: Oh, second to the – second from the left. So it would just become more of a 18
triangle rather than a pentagon. And so it would make it smaller, but it could still be a unit. And 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
I would like the ARB to look at that, so I would propose that our motion include something 1
about having the ARB consider this. 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: I'm fine with consider. My question was not could it technically be 4
done because I'm sure you're right. My question is would they care, and I don't think… 5
6
Chair Chang: Oh, I think… 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: …they'd care. 9
10
Chair Chang: …I think they would care… 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: It doesn't… 13
14
Chair Chang: …because if you… 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: …it doesn't – the drawings don't make the case for that. 17
18
Chair Chang: Well, part of the reason is I can hear all the discussion about a 45 line versus a 3:6 19
line, and if you were to step it back – and unfortunately the one in your packet you can't see, 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
but the one on screen that Ms. Kallas was showing, you can. If you stepped it back by 10 feet, it 1
would be almost approximating a 3:6 line. So effectively what's going on is because… 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: But we just determined that they have the right be treated as 4
residents. 5
6
Chair Chang: But your question was whether something like this would make a material 7
difference to the residents, and they… 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: Yeah. 10
11
Chair Chang: …and it would… 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Why? 14
15
Chair Chang: …but the other issue… 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Why would that be enough? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: No, but the other issue is that the setback's supposed to be 20 feet, not 10, and 1
that's what makes the difference. In other words, we – for residential sites, and it says in our PC 2
code, like these are the rules that govern how we are allowed to create PCs, that it needs to 3
adhere to the same interior rules – interior lot rules as the strictest… 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: But aren't we allowed to [inaudible 3:29:56]? Didn't we just prove… 6
7
Chair Chang: Not that. No, because… 8
9
Commissioner Templeton: …that we have to [inaudible 3:29:57] that? 10
11
Chair Chang: …there's special considerations whenever it abuts… 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: So if – is it 45 or 3:6? Is it – what I'm saying is, these are w-… 14
15
Chair Chang: It's 45 if it's residential, but it's also 20 feet if it's residential. 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Is that something we have to – can I hear from our lawyer… 18
19
Chair Chang: Yeah. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: …about it because I – we are discussing it, and I just don't really – I 2
haven't found a case to be made either way. I just don't know where we stand on it. That would 3
be super helpful for me to support that. 4
5
Caio Arellano: It's 45. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: The question was, does the PC Zone have to do the 20-foot setback 8
on new constructed parts of it? Thank you. 9
10
Commissioner Akin: I believe the section of the code is 18.38.160. 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: I'm trying to… 13
14
Caio Arellano: Right, so… 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: …determine about… 17
18
Caio Arellano: …so – okay, so… 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: …if in a PC area. 1
2
Emily Kallas: So… 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. 5
6
Caio Arellano: …a little… 7
8
Emily Kallas: I… 9
10
Caio Arellano: …bit of historical context. This is from 1987, and in 1987, and, Emily, I think you 11
can confirm this, it did not – the code did not distinguish between the rear yard setback and the 12
side yard setback. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: I'm sorry to interrupt, but we're talking about things that are being 15
built right now. And I think what I'm hearing is the differencing of interpretation on what the 16
requirements are because we all want to comply with the requirements… 17
18
Caio Arellano: So that's… 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: …but we're hearing… 1
2
Emily Kallas: So… 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: …differences between PC… 5
6
Emily Kallas: I… 7
8
Caio Arellano: Right, so… 9
10
Emily Kallas: I… 11
12
Caio Arellano: …so – go ahead, Emily. 13
14
Emily Kallas: I think that it would – it's worth noting that, in the same way that the daylight 15
plane is adopted into the development standards of the PC by 18.38.070, the setback is as well. 16
And so for the existing PC, there is a 10-foot setback for that property line. However, many… 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: Even for a new development? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Emily Kallas: …commissioners – yes, even – I mean, it's… 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: Because that's what we're debating… 3
4
Emily Kallas: …that's what the setback… 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: …we just need your opinion. Thank you, yeah. 7
8
Emily Kallas: …is, but the Planning Commission can make recommendations. 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: Well, what I'm – I get that we can make recommendations, and I get 11
that we have some flexibility with the PC. What we're talking about is what's required because 12
there's a difference of opinion here and we're looking to your legal expertise. 13
14
Caio Arellano: So the applicable development standards are what was approved by the Council 15
in its original PC, so that's – that… 16
17
Chair Chang: But… 18
19
Caio Arellano: …that – right, um… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: …but there's a… 2
3
Caio Arellano: …what… 4
5
Chair Chang: …section… 6
7
Caio Arellano: No, I… 8
9
Chair Chang: …of the code specific to PCs, and we have to adhere to that code… 10
11
Caio Arellano: Yes… 12
13
Chair Chang: …right? 14
15
Caio Arellano: …yes, so… 16
17
Chair Chang: Okay. 18
19
Caio Arellano: And… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: She and I heard two different things – two different answers… 2
3
Caio Arellano: Right… 4
5
Commissioner Templeton: …from you. 6
7
Caio Arellano: …and as the applicant is applying to amend the PC, you have the ability to modify 8
what the zoning standards are based on what is a greater setback for residential rear yards. 9
That setback… 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: So… 12
13
Caio Arellano: ...so… 14
15
Commissioner Templeton: Go ahead. 16
17
Caio Arellano: …so in 1987, we had a 10-foot setback requirement for both rear and side. It was 18
the same setback. So that's why that is what is shown in that 1987 PC and what was adopted by 19
and approved by the Council. As the – as they are applying for an amendment to the PC – well, 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
to add to that, that is why we evaluated the proposed application using a 10-foot setback 1
requirement and a 45-degree daylight plane angle, because that's what was approved and that 2
is what applies. As you evaluate the amended – amendment to the PC, you can apply the same 3
code provision, 18.38.150, understanding that now there is a increased setback for the – based 4
on the adjacent residential use. 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: Can I try to reframe… 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: Yeah. 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: …the question? 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. 13
14
Commissioner Hechtman: So I think what we're trying to get at is Chair Chang is reading the 15
code and it seems to her that it is saying that there's a 20-foot setback requirement, and even 16
in a PC, which has a lot of flexibility, you don't get to flex that. I think that's what she – the 17
question, and so – right? 18
19
Chair Chang: Yeah… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Hechtman: Right… 2
3
Chair Chang: …that's how… 4
5
Commissioner Hechtman: …and so… 6
7
Chair Chang: …[inaudible 3:34:41]. 8
9
Commissioner Hechtman: …Commissioner Templeton is asking if that's correct, if really it's – 10
even in a PC, that 20-foot setback is mandatory and unflexible. 11
12
Caio Arellano: I think yes. I think – wh-, I mean… 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: That's so different than what you've been saying for the last five 15
minutes. 16
17
Amy French: I just… 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Caio Arellano: No, because the point is we're trying to explain why the Staff analyzed the 1
proposed… 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: No, we're not asking why you guys did it. We know… 4
5
Caio Arellano: Okay, so… 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: …why you did it. We're asking what can we do and what can we not 8
do, and I only tell you this – I sound agitated. I'm not agitated with you. We love this stuff. We 9
could argue another whole hour on this. Okay? So that's really why we're – that's what's going 10
on. 11
12
Amy French: So my experience here for – in this city has been when there's a PC, the PC can 13
modify the zoning code, including the special requirements for PCs. So I have seen it. It has 14
happened. The Council has approved that. 15
16
Caio Arellano: So I defer to Ms. French's expertise on this. That's fine. 17
18
Commissioner Hechtman: So I do think – I mean, we're here in real time talking about it, but as 19
this moves forward, I th-, and clearly in the staff analysis of this project, they have not applied a 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
strict 20-foot to the second – to the new construction, and so I think Staff has been treating this 1
project like Ms. French says they have historically. But I think as this travels to the ARB and 2
comes back to us, maybe you could take a look and just make sure we're not setting ourselves 3
up for a major redesign even farther down the road if we discover that that one provision is 4
inflexible, which in my experience it's not, but I haven't really studied this code to see if it might 5
be. 6
7
Amy French: And I'll just add that often we find ourselves preparing tables sho-, comparing 8
when we have PCs, so that can certainly be part of what we bring back, showing for instance in 9
the regular RM20, RM30, it's only a 10-foot setback when it's abutting an R1. So that's another 10
data point that would be helpful, I think, as we look at this project going forward. 11
12
Chair Chang: Okay, great. So there's clearly not – we're not clear, 100 percent clear on what is 13
legally required for us for our PC. It sounds like possibly the special requirements hold or 14
possibly the PC itself can modify those special requirements. It's been done both ways, it 15
sounds like. So I think we're ready for our motion right now. Would anybody like to make… 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: One more comment… 18
19
Chair Chang: Okay. Oh… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: …just to say I like your idea of giving guidance to the ARB about the 2
concerns we have, and I have no problem with that. I just want to make sure that we were clear 3
about the language of the guidance. 4
5
Chair Chang: Okay. 6
7
Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. 8
9
Chair Chang: So – great. So I see a light from Commissioner Akin. 10
11
Commissioner Akin: All right, so I'll try and craft a motion that I think we could all buy into. Let's 12
start by moving the staff recommendation with the following list of topics for the ARB to 13
consider. Item number one on that list, increasing the setback of newly constructed units to 20 14
feet to match the PC special requirements in the code. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: Did you say consider? 17
18
Chair Chang: Yeah. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Akin: I did. 1
2
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 3:38:37] consider… 3
4
Commissioner Akin: That's… 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: …the feasibility, consider the practicality? Like what do you mean? 7
8
Commissioner Akin: Yeah, that – this is why I didn't want to go down this road. But yeah, so 9
there are two considerations, one, feasibility, two, benefit to the visual experience of the 10
neighbors on Wilkie Way. Okay? Second item, consider the use of privacy glazing and screening 11
as per the individual review model… 12
13
Commissioner Templeton: Would we want to say anything about soundproofing? At the 14
February meeting, the residents talked about the sounds. 15
16
Commissioner Akin: All right, well, let's come back to that. 17
18
Commissioner Templeton: Okay. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Akin: Okay? So consider the use of privacy glazing and screening per – for 1
example, as the individual review model uses, for windows facing the Wilkie Way residences. 2
Okay, those are the two items that I would have placed on the list. Now let's see if there are 3
any others that may be of interest. You were mentioning soundproofing? What did you have in 4
mind? 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: Well, if we're going to have requirements for windows, I just wonder 7
if there might be any point to adding the sound – I think there was a question about sometimes 8
with dementia patients there's sounds, but I don't know anything about that and that would be 9
a ARB question if even they wanted to look into, but that's up to you guys. 10
11
Commissioner Akin: So you're thinking about sound generated on the Palo Alto Commons side 12
that would propagate to the Wilkie Way side. 13
14
Commissioner Templeton: If somebody's having frequent loud episodes, it might be a way to 15
mitigate that. 16
17
Commissioner Akin: So consider the use of – this is not the right terminology but soundproofing 18
windows as well? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: Yeah, I mean, they would know better than I would on that. 1
2
Chair Chang: I'll second that motion. 3
4
Commissioner Akin: Well, we're – we – I'm not sure we're quite done making… 5
6
Chair Chang: Well… 7
8
Commissioner Akin: …the motion, but… 9
10
Chair Chang: Oh, sorry. 11
12
Commissioner Akin: Yeah. All right, so I've heard the base motion following staff 13
recommendation plus the three items that have been suggested as additions. I'm entertaining 14
any other possible additions before we close the motion and then move on. 15
16
Commissioner Templeton: Well… 17
18
Commissioner Lu: Mi-… 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Templeton: …if you were looking for a second, I would be happy to do it, but it 1
sounds like Bryna beat me to the punch. 2
3
Commissioner Lu: Minor tweak, we should also mention just window placement, like oblique 4
angles [inaudible 3:41:41], other privacy protective options for window placement. 5
6
Commissioner Akin: Yeah, those are actually in the individual review guidelines if I remember… 7
8
Commissioner Lu: Yeah, I was… 9
10
Commissioner Akin: …correctly. 11
12
Commissioner Lu: Okay, I was sure… 13
14
Commissioner Akin: Yeah. 15
16
Commissioner Lu: …they were going to talk about that anyway, but yeah. 17
18
Commissioner Akin: Yeah. All right… 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Lu: Oh, should the ARB also consider planting, or is that – that's kind of getting 1
into landscape architecture and the privacy effects of planting and… 2
3
Commissioner Summa: That is in the ARB's… 4
5
Commissioner Lu: Yeah. 6
7
Commissioner Summa: …purview. They always… 8
9
Commissioner Lu: Okay, yeah. 10
11
Commissioner Summa: …consider the landscape, so they will. 12
13
Commissioner Lu: Yeah. 14
15
Commissioner Akin: Okay, so the fourth item would then be consider landscaping for… 16
17
Commissioner Lu: Privacy purposes. 18
19
Commissioner Akin: …privacy. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Lu: Yeah. 2
3
Commissioner Akin: Are there any other – I mean, landscaping is not going to help you with 4
sound… 5
6
Commissioner Lu: Yeah. 7
8
Commissioner Akin: …but… 9
10
Commissioner Templeton: But Dor-, Commissioner Summa's comments about landscaping 11
should be included in the motion. Those were good. 12
13
Commissioner Summa: I just was trying to be helpful, but I don't think it hurts to put it in the 14
motion because it shows our emphasis on concern for the impacts on Wilkie. 15
16
Commissioner Akin: Okay, now of course, I have not been writing all this down. Has anyone 17
else? 18
19
Chair Chang: I've got it. I'll second… 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Akin: Could you… 2
3
Chair Chang: …I'll second it, and then I'll… 4
5
Commissioner Akin: …could you… 6
7
Chair Chang: …summarize it. 8
9
Commissioner Akin: Could you read it back… 10
11
Chair Chang: All right… 12
13
Commissioner Akin: …first? 14
15
Chair Chang: …so it's the staff – you're moving the staff recommendation and requesting that 16
the ARB consider a 20-foot setback for all new construction based on feasibility as well as the 17
visual benefit to the neighbors' experience? 18
19
Commissioner Akin: Yeah, based on the PC zoning... 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: And based… 2
3
Commissioner Akin: …rules. 4
5
Chair Chang: …based on… 6
7
Commissioner Akin: Yeah. 8
9
Chair Chang: …the PC 18.38.150 special requirements. 10
11
Commissioner Templeton: [Inaudible 3:43:30]. 12
13
Commissioner Akin: Inspired by. 14
15
Chair Chang: Inspired. Well, we're asking them to consider it. Okay, and then the second point 16
was privacy mitigations, such as those that are in the individual review process. The third 17
point… 18
19
Commissioner Akin: For – yeah, particularly for glazing and screening. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Templeton: Yeah, I think considering… 2
3
Commissioner Akin: We should say… 4
5
Chair Chang: Particularly for glazing, screening, and positioning. 6
7
Commissioner Summa: Consider use of privacy glazing, screening, and other – and window 8
placement. 9
10
Chair Chang: I think… 11
12
Commissioner Lu: Yes. 13
14
Chair Chang: …I just got that. 15
16
Commissioner Lu: Yeah. 17
18
Chair Chang: Okay. And then the third one was consider soundproofing – or soundproof 19
windows or something to that effect, right? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Akin: Yeah. 2
3
Chair Chang: And then the fourth one was landscaping for privacy. 4
5
Commissioner Akin: Those are all the points. Ms. French, are there enough – is there enough 6
specificity there to… 7
8
Amy French: Yes. 9
10
Commissioner Akin: …to pass something along to the ARB? 11
12
Amy French: Four is a reasonable number, and the specificity is reasonable too. 13
14
Commissioner Akin: Okay. All right, then I think the motion is closed now, so… 15
16
Chair Chang: Okay, so do we have discussion on the motion? 17
18
Commissioner Summa: I have one comment. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Okay, Commissioner Summa, then Hechtman. 1
2
Commissioner Summa: So I think I will suppo-, be able to support the motion. And it does not 3
contain direction to the applicant on the necessity for a good TDM program as emphasized by 4
Commissioner Hechtman, but I think that if everyone's comfortable with feeling that the 5
applicant knows how seriously we take that, we're okay because it's really a recommendation. 6
That was the only comment I wanted to make. 7
8
Commissioner Akin: Right, that will come back to us, so we'll be looking for it. 9
10
Chair Chang: Commissioner Hechtman. 11
12
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah, so – and really those comments were for me directed to Staff 13
because they're the ones who are going to oversee the TDM and that's not really the ARB's 14
province. So it seems like the message was heard, and so we'll see what comes back. I'm going 15
to support the motion, although I would have preferred that we didn't include the 16
soundproofing. I don't think it's worth amending and voting separately on it, but soundproofing 17
is really for situations where we have a potential exceedance of our noise code. And it's kind of 18
a slippery slope whether – and I understand the logic behind it, but it's kind of a slippery slope. 19
And are we now going to start looking at infant care centers where you've got a bunch of 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
screaming babies but they don't violate the noise standard but nonetheless we're going to have 1
windows so that the people across the fence can't hear it? Anyway… 2
3
Commissioner Templeton: Do we know they're not violating the noise standards? Was it 4
measured? 5
6
Commissioner Hechtman: Well… 7
8
Commissioner Templeton: We don't know. 9
10
Commissioner Hechtman: …we had a noise study, and there were occupants of the existing 11
building there at the time. And the new construction's actually going to be farther distance 12
from the residences, so the sound will be somewhat diminished. But I don't think we have 13
evidence that there's a violation of the – I think the conclusion was there is no violation of the 14
noise ordinance. So anyway, I don't want to belabor it. I just – and like I said I'm going to 15
support it, but I wish that wasn't part of it because I think it's… 16
17
Commissioner Templeton: Does it say consider? 18
19
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Chang: Everything says consider. 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. Yeah. 4
5
Chair Chang: Any other comments? 6
7
Commissioner Summa: I'll make one more. I'm also a tiny bit uncomfortable with that because, 8
for me, the noise problem was going to be from the HVAC equipment, which I was convinced 9
was not going to be an issue. And I'm slightly uncomfortable with it, but I also wasn't going to 10
make an issue of it. 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: If you guys want to take it out, that's fine. I just wanted to mention it 13
because that was a concern that the neighbors brought up in February. 14
15
Commissioner Summa: We can leave it in and see what ARB does, but has a little bit of a funny 16
feel to me to muffle people's voices. That's all. 17
18
Chair Chang: Commissioner Lu? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Lu: I'll also just wade into the soundproofing conversation. I think this is actually 1
fairly difficult for the ARB to really tackle because they don't have – we don't have data about 2
how often and how loud people are and whether this is a real consistent, credible issue. I think 3
it's okay to consider it. I worry that the answer will be that the windows may need to be 4
operable or openable in some way, and so that's probably the main source of the noise right 5
now anyway, when those windows are open. So the effective net benefit of soundproofing just 6
gets really difficult to analyze. Um… 7
8
Chair Chang: So I'll say… 9
10
Commissioner Lu: …I was also fine… 11
12
Chair Chang: …this. Like AR-… 13
14
Commissioner Lu: …for it to be considered. 15
16
Chair Chang: …this is ARB's job… 17
18
Commissioner Lu: Yeah. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: …right? 1
2
Commissioner Lu: Yeah. 3
4
Chair Chang: We're saying consider. 5
6
Commissioner Templeton: And… 7
8
Chair Chang: They definitely know more about windows and soundproofing and typical use 9
cases for windows that are soundproofed or soundproof buildings than we do, so let's just 10
leave it as is. 11
12
Commissioner Templeton: Wait, let me – I don't want to sound like the odd man out here. So 13
the reason I brought it up, not only because people brought it up themselves, but also I've had 14
my front windows replaced and the noise from the street and from the neighbors and from the 15
teeny boppers coming home from school is greatly diminished. Like it could be just the choice 16
of glazing, and if that's easy enough, they could do it. And if they find like, "That's pretty silly," 17
then they won't do it. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Amy French: I think soundproofing might be just – maybe the – we could rephrase that. 1
Certainly if these are egress windows, they're openable and so there's no proofing absolute, 2
right? That's just the wrong word, so we'll figure out a different word. 3
4
Chair Chang: Okay… 5
6
Commissioner Akin: Yeah, good. I've – I didn't feel comfortable with that, so I'm happy to have 7
a little editing there. 8
9
Chair Chang: All right, do we have any other comments? No. Okay. Ms. Dao, could you please 10
call the vote? 11
12
Veronica Dao: Commiss-… 13
14
Commissioner Akin: Have we had a second? 15
16
Commissioner Hechtman: Chair seconded. 17
18
Chair Chang: I seconded. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Akin: Okay. 1
2
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 3
4
Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 5
6
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Summa? 7
8
Commissioner Summa: Yes. 9
10
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Lu? 11
12
Commissioner Lu: Yes. 13
14
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 15
16
Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 17
18
Veronica Dao: Chair Chang? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Yes. 1
2
Veronica Dao: Commissioner Akin? 3
4
Commissioner Akin: Yes. 5
6
Veronica Dao: Motion carries, 6-0. 7
8
Chair Chang: So that concludes this agenda item, and I think we just have to close the meeting 9
out with commissioner comments, questions, and announcements. Commissioner Hechtman? 10
11
Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 12
Commissioner Hechtman: I just wanted to mention to Staff, as is known I spent a lot of time at 13
the Renzel Ponds, and they're becoming sort of significantly overgrown to where part – in 14
another month, if they're not trimmed, they'll become impassible without pushing brush aside, 15
which is hard when you're on a bike. But also it raises a little bit of a safety risk where because 16
the brush comes out into the middle of the path, it's – you – the visibility is not there and 17
somebody could kind of tuck in and lurk and do something bad to somebody who couldn't see 18
them. So I encourage Staff to get – I don't know what department that is, if it's Parks or Public 19
Works, to take a look and trim where necessary to make that safer. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Amy French: I didn't hear where that was. Where's that? 2
3
Commissioner Hechtman: The Renzel Ponds. The – Embarcadero, the marsh. 4
5
Chair Chang: The bike path along the… 6
7
Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah, before you… 8
9
Chair Chang: …Renzel… 10
11
Commissioner Hechtman: …get to Bixbee and – Renzel, right. Right. I think we're going to have 12
to meet over there. It sounds like you've never been there, so I'll have to take you there. 13
14
Amy French: A long while ago. 15
16
Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, all right. Well, they restored them 6, 7 years ago, and they're 17
fantastic now. It's a beautiful place. Nobody goes – almost nobody goes there. It's a Palo Alto 18
secret, so – apparently even from Staff. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Chang: Okay, thank you. Anybody else have any commissioner questions, comments, 1
announcements? Okay, with that, this meeting is adjourned. 2
3
Adjournment 4
9:42 PM 5
6