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Home My WebLink About2023-10-11 Planning & Transportation Commission Verbatim Minutes_______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Planning & Transportation Commission 1 Action Agenda: October 11, 2023 2 Council Chambers & Virtual 3 6:00 PM 4 5 Call to Order / Roll Call 6 6:01 pm 7 Chair Summa: Good evening and welcome to the Planning and Transportation Commission for 8 Wednesday October 11th, so Ms. Dao, will you call the roll please? 9 10 ROLL CALL 11 12 Ms. Veronica Dao, Administrative Associate: Chair Summa? 13 14 Chair Summa: Present. 15 16 Ms. Dao: Vice-Chair Chang? 17 18 Vice-Chair Chang: Here. 19 20 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin? 21 22 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Akin: Here. 1 2 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 3 4 Commissioner Hechtman: Present. 5 6 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Lu? 7 8 Commissioner Lu: Present. 9 10 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: Here. 13 14 Ms. Dao: We have quorum. 15 16 Chair Summa: Thank you very much Commissioner Templeton your light is on. No. Okay. Oh. 17 Commissioner Hechtman. Yeah, okay … they’re both… okay, I’ll turn them off. Okay. Thank you. 18 Okay, So now is the time for Public Comment for anyone who has… wants to speak about 19 something that is not on the Agenda. Do you have any speakers? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Oral Communications 2 The public may speak to any item not on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker.1,2 3 Ms. Dao: No. Okay, thank you so much, no speakers. 4 5 Agenda Changes, Additions and Deletions 6 The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 7 8 Chair Summa: So, so we have any Agenda changes, additions or deletions? 9 10 Ms. Amy French, Chief Planning Official: No changes. 11 12 Chair Summa: Thank you so much. Okay so now it’s time for City Official Reports. 13 14 City Official Reports 15 1. Directors Report, Meeting Schedule and Assignments 16 Ms. Amy French, Chief Planning Official: Good evening, Amy French, Chief Planning Official, In 17 your packet are upcoming meeting dates. A couple of changes there from what is published in 18 todays packet, I’m going to be bringing forward on November 8th the State Legislation in an Info 19 Report. It’s on the Governor’s desk this week. Can you hear me now? The packet includes the 20 upcoming dates for Planning and Transportation Commission items. There’s a couple of 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. changes that will be coming in addition to what was stated here, I’ll be bringing forward State 1 Legislation an informational report. There’s much legislation on the Governor’s desk this week. 2 We’ll see what happens and bring that forward. Also, a change, December 13th, rather than the 3 Housing Element as revised, we’re looking to bring the NVCAP project as a study session on that 4 date, December 13th. And I think that is the only change from my perspective. Let’s see this 5 week we have… oh sorry, this month, the month of October, we have …Bryna is the PTC Rep to 6 Council meetings. There’s a few upcoming meetings and I’ll do my best to send out a heads up 7 on some of those items that I’m aware of going to Council. 8 9 Chair Summa: Thank you very much. Any other City Official reports at this time? 10 11 Ms. Sylvia Star-Lack, Transportation Manager: Yes, there is. 12 13 Chair Summa: Thank you. 14 15 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Good evening, Commissioners, Sylvia Star-16 Lack, in the Office of Transportation, Transportation Planning Manager. I have a list for you that 17 I just lost, and here it is, okay. The first update for you is that the active Palo Alto Plan, which is 18 the update planning effort to update our Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan, we’ll be 19 coming to you at the end of November, tentatively, so look for that. And we also anticipate that 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the first or second week of November will be when the Blake Wilbur Drive, the new little 1 portion there, between Sand Hill Road and Welch Road, will be opened. Those are the two 2 items that I have. 3 4 Chair Summa: Okay, thank you so much. 5 6 Ms. French: Excuse me, I have one more that forgot to mention. 7 8 Chair Summa: Oh, thank you Ms. French. 9 10 Ms. French: Sorry, I had emailed to the Board earlier today, the Commission, regarding a 11 possible early start time of 5 p.m. on October 25, I haven’t heard back from three members, so 12 if you could take a look at your calendars this evening so we can figure out if we’ve got a 13 quorum. It’s to have a joint meeting, not just a Action on the Safe Parking. It’s a joint study 14 session first with the Human Relations Commission and we’re looking at a possible early time of 15 5 p.m. so we can get through the items on that agenda. Thank you. 16 17 Chair Summa: Okay. Thank you for that. Commissioner Templeton. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. Can you clarify what you mean, is there a 5-6 joint 1 meeting, or … why is it not the same start time? 2 3 Ms. French: Yes, a special meeting, we’re looking at potentially because the Human Relations 4 Commission is able to come at 5 p.m. so that we can conduct the joint special meeting with the 5 Human Relations Commission. And then proceed to the Planning and Transportation 6 Commission only, either right after or after the other study session item, to get to the action 7 item or at least begin the action item for that evening. 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: I guess what I’m really asking is why do we need to start early? 10 11 Ms. French: Oh, because there’s a potential length of the hearing, and late meetings, so the 12 concept of starting earlier with a joint meeting, you know, it will be kind of a full dais to give 13 enough time. 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: So it will be more than these two items you have here on the 25th. 16 17 Ms. French: Yeah, the Safe Parking Ordinance is the Action item, but there’s a study session as 18 well on the Safe Parking Ordinance that would precede the Action Item on the Safe Parking 19 Ordinance. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. 2 3 Chair Summa: Commissioner Hechtman. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: I can be here at 5 o’clock on the 25th. 6 7 Ms. French: Thank you. 8 9 Chair Summa: Okay. And just to let everyone know, Commissioner Reckdahl will be here 10 shortly. 11 12 Study Session 13 Public Comment is Permitted. Three (3) minutes per speaker. 14 15 2. Study session Safe Streets for All (SS4A) Action Plan & Safe Systems Approach 16 Introduction 17 18 Chair Summa: So, we’ll move on to our first item, which is a study session, Safe Streets For All 19 (SS4A) Action Plan & Safe Systems Approach Introduction, and I’m sure Ms. Star-Lack has a 20 presentation. 21 22 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yes. And Veronica if you could put that up for 1 me that would be great, thank you. Great. Good evening, Commissioners. I’m Sylvia Star-Lack, 2 Transportation Planning Manager. Tonight, I’ll go over the development of the Safer Palo Alto 3 Action Plan, and the Safe System Approach to road safety. I’m seeking your feedback on a few 4 items, and will collect your comments, along with comments from the Pedestrian and Bicycle 5 Advisory Committee, and the City School Transportation Safety Committee, which will all go 6 into an informational report that will be transmitted to Council in mid-November. Next slide. 7 The Agenda tonight is to share the project schedule, provide an overview of the Safe System 8 Approach, describe the Safety Action Plan, and your role, receive your input on the vision 9 statement and answer your questions if I can. I do have a consultant team that is helping me 10 with this plan, and you may have noticed that I do not have them here with me, or in Council 11 Chambers to answer detailed technical questions. We are reserving the consultant’s meeting 12 budget for when they will be presenting more technical information. I can record your 13 questions, the questions that I can’t answer, and share responses in the next PTC packet if that 14 is desired. Next slide… thanks. The project schedule spans now … from now until November of 15 next year, and this information also appears in the staff report. Please note that the Road 16 Safety Survey and Interactive Map are live now, through the end of November, you can go to 17 the City’s Safer Palo Alto webpage for the links to these important data collection tools that will 18 inform planned development. I also left some cards with QR codes for you with Amy French 19 who can distribute them to you and if you can share those with your networks, that would 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. great. I would appreciate that. Next slide. The Safe System Approach is a transportation system 1 safety strategy to eliminate fatal and severe injury crashes on roadways. The Safe System 2 Approach is promoted by the Federal, State, and Regional Transportation Organizations. This 3 approach identifies traffic safety as the highest priority for the design and operation of the 4 transportation system and views traffic fatalities and severe injuries as unacceptable and 5 preventable through joint action. In Palo Alto we’ve already made a start at some of the work 6 that’s needed for the Safe System Approach with our long running Safe Routes to School 7 partnership. This new effort expands on the success of that partnership. To sum it up a little bit, 8 the Safe System Approach involves a paradigm shift to improve safety culture, increase 9 collaboration across all safety stakeholders and refocus transportation system design and 10 operation on anticipating human mistakes and lessening impact forces to reduce crash severity 11 and save lives. Next slides, thanks. The Safe System Approach uses a particular model to 12 improve the transportation system. The five system elements highlighted in the middle ring of 13 the graphic here are conduits through which the Safe System Approach must be implemented. 14 The elements are safe road users, safe vehicles, safe speeds, safe roads, and post-crash care. 15 The approach also relies on six principles. And these are in the outer circle. Mainly that death or 16 serious injury is unacceptable, humans make mistakes, humans are vulnerable, responsibility 17 for safety is shared, safety is proactive, and redundancy is crucial. I’ll explain some of these are 18 we go along. Next slide. The key focus of the Safe System Approach is to reduce death and 19 serious injuries through design that accommodates human mistakes and injury tolerances. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Making a commitment to eliminating roadway deaths and severe injuries means addressing 1 every aspect of crash risks through the five elements of a safe system. These layers of 2 protection and shared responsibility promote a holistic approach to safety across the entire 3 roadway system. Next slide. The graphic on the left show how the five safe system elements 4 work together, such that if one part fails, there are redundant systems in place. The swiss 5 cheese model helps demonstrate this redundancy. Layers safety measures are represented as 6 slices of swiss cheese with the holes being weaknesses in individual parts of the system. The 7 holes represent weakness causing failures. When the cheese slices acts as successive layers of 8 defenses, the holes are not lined up, a person is protected. The right graphic shows that a 9 failure only results when a hole in each slice momentarily aligns; permitting a hazard to pass 10 through holes in all the slices. The basic principle is that lapses and weaknesses in one part of 11 the system can occur, but other parts compensate to not allow a failure. This relates back to the 12 Safe System principles that redundancy is critical, and responsibility is shared. Next slide. As 13 we’ll see in the text here, implementing the Safe System Approach requires moving away from 14 several traditional safety paradigms. First, rather than preventing crashes, generically, the Safe 15 System Approach seeks to prevent death and serious injuries. Second, in addition to trying to 16 human behavior, the Safe System Approach design for human mistakes and limitations. 17 Number three, while the traditional safety approach focuses on controlling speeding, the Safe 18 System Approach attempts to reduce system kinetic energy. Four, rather than asserting that 19 only individuals are responsible, the Safe System Approach aims to share responsibility among 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. system users, managers, and others. And fifth, instead of reacting based on crash history, the 1 Safe System Approach proactively identifies and addresses these risks. Next slide. A safety 2 action plan includes the elements on this slide and they are noted in the staff reports. The plan 3 focuses on all roadway users, including drivers, so it’s different in scope from the Active Palo 4 Alto update of our Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan that is also happening 5 concurrently. Next slide. Folks might be wondering why we’re doing this plan now and part of 6 the reason is that the federal governments and state governments are… have adopted this 7 approach, but the other reason is that several funding sources require or recommend a safety 8 action plan for applicants to receive funds. The State recently required this for the HSIP 9 (Highway Safety Improvement Program) as a new element and the one bay area grant is 10 moving in this direction. The Safe Street and Roads for All implementation grants also require 11 this type of plan. Next slide. And, these two additional grants also privilege applicants that have 12 done this work. The first one is a State grant and the second is federal from the Bipartisan 13 Infrastructure Law. Next slide. The City’s recent efforts to address roadway safety include 14 participation in the VTA Countywide Local Road Safety Plan, we did bring that… when that was 15 done we brought that to PTC. The Safe Routes to School 5 Year Plan has tried to address safety 16 from that perspective, our 2017 Traffic Safety and Operations Report was a summation of work 17 and a look at some issues that we needed to address. And then also the Bicycle and Pedestrian 18 Transportation Plan which was done in 2012 and is currently being updated. The Safe Streets 19 for All federal grant that supports the Safer Palo Alto Plan allows for a comprehensive multi 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. mobile approach that we’ve not had the opportunity to consider in the past. So, I’m really 1 excited to get a fresh look at our safety practices and procedures. Next slide. PTC’s role in this 2 work is to provide feedback at this meeting and at three subsequent ones where you’ll be 3 reviewing consultant work. It’s also to represent the interests of the community, while 4 supporting this work; and I’m hoping you will help us publicize the initiative and help people 5 engage in planned development. There will be a blog post published soon, letting the 6 community know about this plan, and the update of our Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation 7 Plan. That blog will also include links to the online survey and interactive ma, that will be open 8 through November of this year. You can also find the map and survey at the Safer Palo Alto 9 website www.cityofpaloalto.org/saferpaloalto. Next slide. And there’s the working vision 10 statement for the plan. Palo Alto is committed to an equity-focused, data-driven effort to 11 eliminate traffic deaths and severe injuries on our streets 2030. I’m interested in your feedback 12 on this, but I have a few more slides to go. Next slide. Here are some questions to stimulate 13 your input. What feedback to you have on the Vision Statement and target year? What conflicts 14 do you see that are preventing, or may prevent, the city from achieving zero deaths and 15 fatalities? What are the specific areas of road safety that are most important to address? I’ll 16 collect your comments and include a summary in the report to Council in November, and I’ll 17 come back to this slide in a bit. Next slide. Are there any questions before we get to your 18 feedback? Or, we could organize this another way too but, that’s the end of my presentation. 19 Thanks. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Thank you very much Ms. Star-Lack and I have some lights, I don’t know the 2 exact order so I’ll go to Commissioner Templeton first. 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you Chair, and do you want us to hold our comments and just 5 do questions, technical questions now? Because, I know we all have comments. 6 7 Chair Summa: I think, why don’t we do questions first, and then go to the public, I see at least 8 one person I think that wants to speak to this. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: That would be great. Okay thank you. 11 12 Chair Summa: And then come back to the Commission. 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: Sounds good, alright, so I have a few comments and questions 15 about the presentation itself, and then we can get into the comments. So, the cheese model is 16 intellectually interesting, the graphic is unfortunately not demonstrative, because all the 17 wholes are in the same place and they line up, so I could reconsider how you… what visual 18 metaphor you use to describe the redundancy concept and then you, you mention that death 19 and serious injury is unacceptable and I’m thinking about, and we can get more into the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. comments, but I’m thinking about some of the times when we have asked for changes, several 1 of us up here have asked for changes and we’ve been told that death or serious injury is 2 actually a requirement in order to get the changes that are needed to get the intersections 3 safer. So, I’d like to hear you address that before we get to our comments because that’s a big 4 one. And I’m concerned about your statement of why now is because of grants, given how 5 many and how young victims that we’re having over and over and over again in this city. I’d like 6 to see a more sensitive answer. Do you want to respond to any of those? Thank you. 7 8 Ms. Star-Lack: Yes, thank you so much for the opportunity to respond. Yeah, I will talk to our 9 consultants about the holes in the cheeses and make sure that looks… makes sense. Yes, the 10 way that parts of transportation engineering are done, are that, for example, if you want a stop 11 sign somewhere, we have to conduct a stop warrant and part of that warrant study is to look at 12 the collision history at a particular site, at a particular intersection. And when the collision 13 history reaches a certain frequency over a threshold, something like five a year or six a year, or 14 five over the past three years, whatever it is, then you can consider putting in a stop sign. This 15 model does things differently. This model will look at collision history and will say, hey, we’ve 16 noticed that certain kinds of intersections seem to produce certain kinds of collisions, so the 17 plan will do that kind of analysis and then tell us… okay if you have a particular kind of 18 intersection, let’s say it’s a two way stop controlled intersection and we’re noticing that there 19 are certain kinds of collisions that keep happening there, the plan, or the consultants will 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. recommend particular counter measures to address the collisions at those kinds of 1 intersections, but will recommend them system wide. It’s a systemic approach. 2 3 Commissioner Templeton: Do we have to have only the consultants recommending? Or can 4 people in the community recommend? Because I can tell you aren’t getting all the collision data 5 from the police. Many times, if a person is capable of walking away from a collision, then they 6 don’t report it. But their parents usually know. 7 8 Ms. Star-Lack: That is why the interactive map is really a useful community engagement tool, 9 that is open right now, for two months, and through the end of November. We want to know 10 about all the places where folks have had close calls, where they don’t feel safe walking or 11 biking, or you know, where collisions have happened but maybe haven’t been reported. The 12 consultants will be looking at all of that information. 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. And then did you want to talk about the motivation for 15 hearing this now? 16 17 Ms. Star-Lack: Sure. Yeah, well part of the reason is this is a relatively new approach that was 18 adopted recently by the federal government that has been promulgated. And the Safe Streets 19 for All grant program, this is the first year that the feds have offered this grant program, so that 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. many many many communities could have resources to develop such a plan and we were lucky 1 enough to get one of the grants. And it’s… there’s another part. There’s a funding… there’s 2 another pot of money for the Safe Streets for All program that is for implementation grants and 3 there’s a lot of money available there, but the only way we can tap into it, is if we have one of 4 these grants. So, to do this work is going to require a lot of money. It’s going to require a re-5 orientation of how we do safety, the way that I just discussed. Instead of being reactive, that 6 we are proactive. And, that means that a lot of places might need change, and that’s going to 7 require some resources to make those changes. 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: Ms. Star-Lack I’m specifically asking is this in anyway a response to 10 the accidents that have been occurring with our children and our other people in the streets, 11 that we’ve been bringing up for two plus years and that have happened very recently to our 12 students. 13 14 Ms. Star-Lack: This city has been concerned with children’s safety in going to school for fifty 15 years. We’ve had a Safe Routes to School program, although it wasn’t called that, we’ve had 16 our City Transportation Safety committee for over fifty years. So, I would say that this is work 17 that we’ve always been engaged in, for sure the recent youth collisions have affected all of us, 18 have effected staff, have effected this community, but we’ve been doing this work for decades. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: I’m sorry. And I know you have, you’ve been a champion for this. 1 But my question is, is this going to address those issues and let’s be really explicit about it 2 because that’s what people want to know. 3 4 Ms. Star-Lack: Absolutely. That is why, we’ve been doing this work for years and when this 5 opportunity came up, we jumped on it. 6 7 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. 8 9 Vice Chair Chang: So, I’ll start just with questions. So, you mentioned that we’re trying to 10 reduce fatal and severe injuries to zero, which is wonderful, I wonder why we weren’t before, 11 but how do we define severe. 12 13 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yeah, I have … the answer is basically that if 14 it’s an injury that after which you are no longer able to do your normal activities, like walking, 15 you know, really severe injuries, those are the ones we’re looking at. I need … sorry I have the 16 answer but I can’t grab it right now. 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: Okay, thank you. Because I’d love to know if say… concussions and broken 1 arms count as severe… because you can still walk around but I would say most members of the 2 public would say that those are pretty severe. 3 4 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yeah. 5 6 Vice Chair Chang: No, I have more, she’s trying to answer the question. 7 8 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yeah, I ‘m trying… I have it, hold on just a 9 second. Okay so the serious… serious injuries are defined as an injury which prevents the 10 injured party from walking, driving, or performing activities that would normally capable of 11 before the collision. 12 13 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, that’s good to hear. That’s… I mean well, for me the critical part is the 14 or performing activities that they could do before the collision. Okay, and then, another 15 question about how you are publicizing the interactive map outreach survey because I’m really 16 hopeful that we can capture all the near misses that, as many near misses as possible, my 17 personal bias is for from pedestrians and bicyclists. And so I’m hoping that there’s… like could 18 you talk a little bit more about how we’re publicizing it with respect to Safe Routes to School 19 and PAUSD. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yes, we will be including information about 2 this through our City School Transportation Safety Committee e-news that we send out to 3 parents who are volunteering in our program. We’ll be sharing this information with the 4 Superintendent’s office. He’s been very accommodating when we’ve asking him to share items. 5 And, we’re… you know, we have a website, we’re putting it out wherever we can. So… yeah. 6 7 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, so can I ask that you please… so what happens in the way that the 8 schools push out news is that there are individual editors at each elementary… at each site and 9 often times they take something that’s from the City of Palo Alto or the larger community 10 beyond that particular campus, and they shove it into another section or it’s not in their weekly 11 e-news, and so if we can some how get this elevated to the level of the principles, at each 12 school, it will be much more likely that it will get shared out to all the parents. 13 14 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yeah, Yeah. Okay, great thank you. 15 16 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, and I think that’s it for now. 17 18 Chair Summa: Thank you, Commissioner Akin. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Akin: Thank you Chair. I want to start with the easy ones and then work towards 1 the hard one. On Packet Page 13 and 14, I found it amusing that in the illustrations of safe 2 vehicles, electric bikes, and boards are not included. You might want to modify the illustration a 3 bit. I know there has been some concern about those vehicles. Now, switching back to Page 10, 4 the traditional goal of controlling speeding is being replaced with the Safe System goal of 5 reducing system kinetic energy, I’m wondering how literally to take that statement, because if it 6 is intended literally, I have a few follow up questions. 7 8 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Go ahead with your question, I mean I’m not 9 really sure what you’re asking, but speed… people need to come down. 10 11 Commissioner Akin: The question is… that question was largely whether this is for presentation 12 or whether it’s a real statement of the process of SS4A, but let me illustrate. So, kinetic energy 13 is a product of mass, direction, and the square of the speed. So, if your goal is to reduce system 14 kinetic energy, then reducing speed still hugely dominates that goal. So, that would indicate 15 that’s the highest priority. I can see where there are obvious benefits from changing the 16 directions of which interactions occur, whether someone is hit from behind or from ahead, or 17 from the side, so, clearly that’s going to be part of the analysis. But what get’s interesting is 18 mass. Because the first thing that occurred to me when I thought, okay if you’re going to reduce 19 kinetic energy by reducing mass, the way you do that is by keeping larger vehicles off the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. streets because you need to reduce the mass of the things involved in the interaction. So, the 1 question that occurs to me is … is reducing the use of the streets by vehicles an essential part of 2 your exploration in this. 3 4 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: So thanks for that question. So the federal 5 government is, would… sees the entire transportation system as one system, it is a safe system 6 approach, one system, and the question about vehicle mass, is something that obviously the 7 city of Palo Alto does not regulate, but the feds can. And so that is something that is being 8 handles in terms of vehicles sizes and mass, that’s going to be handled at the… at that level. 9 Reducing exposure to vehicles is definitely something that we’ll be looking at. Not necessarily 10 saying that vehicles can’t be on certain roads, but perhaps separating bicyclists, and pedestrians 11 from vehicles, might be something that we… it’ll definitely be something that we are going to 12 be looking at. 13 14 Commissioner Akin: Okay, yeah, the question I had in mind was, we can restrict which roads are 15 allowable for certain kinds of vehicles, so I wondered if that’s what you had in mind. The last 16 point is to echo everything that Commissioner Templeton said. I looked at the… when I read 17 “replace the traditional goal of reacting based on crashed history” with “proactively identifying 18 and addressing risks”, I was ready to cheer. But then I hit Action Plan Item 2, later on the page, 19 which sounds like it’s all about reacting to existing crash history. And there’s a huge amount of 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. concern in the community that the records we have are incomplete and unreliable. So, it would 1 be hard to develop an acceptable program based solely on what we know exists today, at least 2 what the community knows exists today. So, perhaps rephrasing how we intend to proceed 3 with that, I liked the wording you used earlier about analyzing according to intersection type, 4 an then applying the results proactively. That for example, I think, would be a good approach. 5 Thank you, that’s all I have. 6 7 Chair Summa: Thank you. I am not seeing any other lights, do I have any other questions? 8 Okay, then for the record I’d like to state that Commissioner Reckdahl joined us, and then did 9 we have… how many public speakers do we have on this item Ms. Dao? 10 11 PUBLIC COMMENTS 12 13 Ms. Dao: We have two raised hands on zoom. 14 15 Chair Summa: Okay, let’s go ahead… are they in the room or 16 17 Ms. Dao: They’re on zoom. 18 19 Chair Summa: Zoom. Okay, thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ms. Dao: One person lowered their hand, so just one, Melissa Oliveira, you can unmute 2 yourself, you have three minutes. 3 4 Ms. Melissa Oliveira: Hi, thank you for having me this evening. I am grateful to be here and I 5 wanted to thank the entire Commission and I echo a lot of the sentiment and I also thank you 6 so much Ms. Star-Lack, for the presentation. I’m going to start with questions because I feel like 7 I have a lot of them, and we don’t need answers, but I just wanted them to be put into the 8 record. So, echoing what Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang said, coming from a marketing 9 background, I think it’s really important and imperative to understand the marketing media and 10 campaign strategy for how the community and residents are going to participate with these 11 surveys because if we are going to be data driven, and then actually implement change, it will 12 require community participation. And so, I think as many channels, outlets, and integrated 13 community organizations that are a part of this, the better; so I would just echo that sentiment. 14 The second and building on that is, what is the plan for integration with Stanford University and 15 the Stanford community? Again, being a part of the College Terrace Residents Association, and 16 being part of that neighborhood, we’re obviously on the perimeter and peripheral of the 17 campus, as are many other communities in Palo Alto. I would just want to ensure that their 18 voices and their interactions and their engagement with the streets and the surveys are 19 important. As well as integration/data. What is the data integration with Stanford University 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. and their Sheriff’s Department as it pertains to traffic safety, fatality, and injuries, whether it’s 1 their students, or on again, that perimeter. So, example being, we had another accident in front 2 of Escondido Elementary, exactly the Friday after my son was hit, and I don’t even know if that 3 was reported, because it was on Escondido Road and how is data being collected there? And 4 last but not least I want to echo what Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang said, which is the 5 definition of severe injury. Our son, who was hit, started therapy today because he has had 6 chronic and severe panic attacks since his accident and so, I would ask the Commission, City, 7 the Palo Alto Unified School District, and those involved to actually think about the long term 8 impact of what happens to not just a child who’s ten years old, but anybody who comes into a 9 cross-roads of death. And how that will impact them forever possibly. So I would encourage us 10 to have a broader scope of death being a definition of what we’re working towards, but also 11 just really driving home the importance of over all health, wellness, and safety. So thank you for 12 this time. 13 14 Chair Summa: Thank you Ms. Oliveira, really appreciate it and we’re all up here, as is I’m sure 15 the entire staff, very sorry that your son was hurt but very happy that he wasn’t more badly 16 hurt than he is. So, thank you so much. Do we have any other speakers? 17 18 Ms. Dao: Yes, one more from Scott O’Neil. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Thank you. 1 2 Mr. Scott O’Neil: Hi, thank you. I’m a member of a Palo Alto Board but I’m speaking only for 3 myself tonight. After the recent pair of very severe collisions I went back and viewed the history 4 around the Palo Alto… East Meadow bikeways project and one thing that really jumped out 5 and disturbed me was that the data collection overwhelmingly favored the work. This 6 community really wanted that bike path… those protected bike lanes, but there were these two 7 objects opposed paragraphs in the report, you know, that said that, and they also said that 8 there were resistance from stakeholders, with concerns about parking. So, I don’t know what 9 stakeholders mean, I would think every person who responded to that survey was a stake 10 holder, right? Why are some voices privileged more than others. And why do we listen to calls 11 for inaction over action. I don’t know. But I think if we’re going to make better decisions about 12 this, we need to ask how we’re forming our decisions and I think … I hope we take a better 13 approach going forward. The other thing I’d like to suggest, in the context of the East Meadow 14 bikeways project, and the area we’re serving, is that we have creeks throughout the city, which 15 are our public right of ways, and I actually live next to Adobe Creek between Adobe Creek and 16 East Meadow, and there’s this right of way where you can drive along the creek down from E. 17 Meadow to Louis and it’s fenced off. There’s a padlock. If you go across the street you get up to 18 the pedestrian bike bridge that’s open, but going the other direction, it’s just locked. The City 19 owns that, all we’d have to do is open it up, put in maybe a little safety railing, you know, down 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. to Louis. And I think that could you know, maybe we could even extend that further, all the way 1 down to you know, the library and Mitchell Park. And that might be an approach that might be 2 taken elsewhere, city right of ways. I don’t understand why that’s locked. I mean, it’s just 3 absolutely crazy to me that people in my complex, people at Echelon across the street, their 4 kids when their going to school at Hoover and Meadow and JLS, you know, their kids are on 5 bike lanes, with only paint protecting them. We’ve seen how that works out, and they could 6 just be riding along that creek safely. Anyway, thank you. 7 8 Chair Summa: Thank you for your comments. Any others Ms. Dao? 9 10 Ms. Dao: No, that’s it. 11 12 Chair Summa: Okay. Awesome, thank you everyone and we’ll bring it back to the Commission. 13 Would someone… ah.. Commissioner Templeton. 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you very much. I really appreciate you bringing this to the 16 Planning and Transportation Commission Ms. Star-Lack, you know, I always love hearing from 17 you and I know you’re working very hard on these kinds of safety improvements and have for 18 most of your career, it is important that we do engage on this so I hope that you and anyone 19 listening knows that our feedback about the plan is not directed at any individual, it’s just how 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. do we collaborate with you and give you our feedback. So, with that in mind, so I know I speak 1 for many of us on the Commission and in the community when I say that the ability to move 2 about safely in this City is a very high priority and when we have rarely got the chance to weigh 3 in on, so thank you again for bringing it here. And, we would like as many more opportunities as 4 sensible so it’s good to see your timeline of opportunities over the next year and I hope many 5 of those are available for us to weigh in on like this one. I can not help but tie this, what I’m 6 ready through this, to the events that we’ve been hearing about. Many of us, hear from our 7 community contacts, when instance happen, we also have read the paper about instance that 8 have gotten more visibility. It’s heart breaking, it’s frustrating, it’s upsetting, it’s disappointing, 9 it's not what we expect to happen in our community. We are a community that requires our 10 children to get themselves to school because we don’t provide free buses. And we need to 11 make sure that’s safe. And I see you nodding, I know you know, as you have been a champion 12 for how to do so safely. However, I have personally witnessed students who are trying to get to 13 school, experience a collision and be knocked off their bikes. My daughter personally was 14 knocked off of her bike on E. Meadow Road, many years ago, near where this collision, this 15 recent collision occurred. That collision is unfortunately categorized as severe. It breaks my 16 heart, we have discussed things that we can do to make it safer and have not been successful 17 yet, in getting those changes made. I hope this plan will allow us to do so. You asked about why 18 … what do we think about 2030. My response is that doesn’t reflect the urgency that I believe 19 this community feels right now about this issue and I think it’s important for us to reflect the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. priorities of the community and to treat safety of movement, and transit, and transportation, 1 around this city. I don’t think 2030 reflects that adequately. Regarding the map, I’ll let you 2 know. I just submitted the survey myself and it looks like we’ve only had about 150 response, in 3 a community with over 60,000 people of voting age, not including their children. We have 4 thousands of children in the school districts. I don’t think we’re getting the word out for that 5 survey adequately, and we’re not communicating it with the appropriate level of urgency given 6 that students are being hit frequently. Also, none of the recent collisions are on the collision 7 map. And that really disturbs me because it’s hard to take this as a tool seriously, if not even 8 those areas which we have documented personal firsthand experience reported in the paper, 9 reported to police, aren’t even on those. So, I would ask if we can perhaps seed that map with 10 relevant known collisions so that people can weigh in on it. I will echo the comments that my 11 colleagues have made about the bar for counting a zero serious injuries is too high, I think I will 12 tell you I was very effected by watching my daughter get bumped off her bike on Meadow. And 13 it took me a long time to allow her to bike on major roads again. I was also very effected when I 14 was walking my son to school, and I watched two girls get bumped off their bikes on El Camino. 15 Which I’ve reported and I’m sure you’re familiar with. And was told nothing would be done 16 because those girls were not seriously injured, and it’s not our road. Those are not acceptable 17 responses and I hope that when you’re team is envisioning how are we going to reach this very 18 admirable bar of zero deaths and serious injuries, I would add possibly other injuries, I hope 19 that you will include coordinating with other agencies. Because we do have roads within our 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. city limits that are owned by other entities, such as Stanford, such as the State, such as the 1 County. So, we need to make sure that we are advocating appropriately with the other 2 agencies. And I would encourage us to think about this map beyond November. The most 3 urgent time frames for these maps are when school starts. That’s when we have new people 4 taking new paths. How are they going to report it? This has been an issue for many years, as I 5 know you know. But we need to discuss it. People need to be able to easily report those kinds 6 of incidents. We have attempted in the past to use our ticketing system, the 3-1-1, is that what 7 it's called, to report those because we don’t have any other way to do it, and we have been 8 discouraged by your department from using that method to report such collisions. If this ap is 9 going to go down in November, after you’ve collected the round one of input, we need to think 10 about ways for people to report that, that don’t involved necessarily going to the police so that 11 minor incidents are recorded and we do have the data. We may also, I think it was Vice Chair 12 Chang who mentioned the principals. When I witness the goals from Gun being knocked off 13 their bike in the middle of a major intersection, which was horrifying, I communicated with the 14 principal of the school, who did not follow up on these items, that it’s not what she does and 15 not her understanding of her responsibility. They don’t worry about if students get there safely. 16 They keep them safe once their on campus. So, we need to think about what’s the best way to 17 follow up on these kinds of incidents. And, I know you’re going to hear this from all of us, 18 because this is important to all of us, but if you are serious about making it safe and 19 encouraging people to bike around this city, we have to not be fearing for our lives, every time. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. it is not a matter of training only, sure, there are newer riders, but when I think about the 1 incident on E. Meadow, I’m horrified. That person was following all the rules. They were waiting 2 to turn left, and someone went around them, into the bike lane. And seriously injured that 3 child. So, I’m not sure yet, if our safe system is complete enough, it might be complete enough 4 to get a grant, in which I hope so, but I hope that our community will push for more because we 5 don’t want to tell our kids they have to bike to school and bike to the library and just hope that 6 they don’t get hit. Thank you. 7 8 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. 9 10 Vice Chair Chang: So I’m really glad to see this because I think we were talking about it during 11 our Work Plan, we were talking about a Safe Systems Approach. So I’m glad to see this come 12 before us now. Some thoughts that I had regarding the areas of feedback that you wanted, 13 2030 seems a long time away, for me, as a target year. I know that it takes time to do these 14 studies, it takes time to implement anything, everything, perfectly. But I’m wondering what the 15 plan is in terms of … I hope it’s… 2030 seems to long away. It’s seven years away, half the kids in 16 PAUSD will then be out of PAUSD by seven years from now. And, in my experience, I mean the 17 reason I’m here on this Commission and why I got interested in all of this, was because I was 18 doing traffic duty at Hoover Elementary and I had said we need to put some bollards up. And 19 the response was… because every day I would watch somebody almost… everyday was a near 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. miss and it was not a serious injury or a fatality because a child stomped on their breaks on 1 their bike. And I saw this every single day. And I went to the planning meetings and was told no, 2 we can’t do that. So, this is the… no we can’t do that but we are going to put a median in there 3 and it will be up in three years. I’m like three years doesn’t help me. So, I’m wondering what we 4 can do to implement things that we know should be done, as soon as possible. I heard you say a 5 little bit that funding is part of it, but there are things that I think should be done even if we 6 don’t have the federal funding. Like it was an obvious solution, we knew that we didn’t want 7 cars going through there and doing a u turn, we could have done a temporary solution, but we 8 didn’t. And so, I’m wondering why. Is it a question of funding? But I don’t think… that wasn’t 9 the reason that was given to me at the time. It was because we needed to keep studying it, but 10 we already knew that there would be a median there. So I don’t know what there was to study, 11 and so I’m wondering, what … like is this a mind shift that we need to… is it a change in attitude 12 that we need to undergo? You know we have known problems… we even have known 13 problems that are going to be solved, but we can’t come up with a temporary solution that can 14 prevent serious injury or death right away. And so I’m hoping that, as we see this again, that 15 there’s some explanation for what we do between now and the target year to bring us closer to 16 zero sooner. Then in terms of conflicts I see that are preventing or may prevent the city from 17 doing this… okay, the target year is seven years from now, our next housing element is… covers 18 the next eight years. We… many of us have said here, many times, that if we’re going to put this 19 much housing in a certain area, we need to make sure that there’s a bike plan, a transportation 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. plan, and a pedestrian plan for those areas. Yet, I’ve yet to see any planning or discussion or 1 study sessions come before us, for areas where we’re going to have concentrated new 2 developments. I’m thinking specifically about San Antonio, and the industrial area, over by the 3 freeway, the 101 at the end of E. Meadow Circle. But there are other areas too. And so that’s 4 one of the kind of… I don’t know if I’d call it the conflict per say, but a need; and if we don’t do 5 the prevention now, then what we have is… we… have seen here, developments going up piece 6 mill and those developments are not, they may affect our ability to say put bike lanes in, or the 7 driveways affect the safety of everybody. And so, I’m seeing a… because of the housing 8 pressure, choosing to put up developments piece mill rather than coming up with a grand plan 9 for the bike/pred/car plan. And then making sure that each of the applications fit within that 10 plan. And then finally, as I mentioned earlier, the specific areas of road safety that are most 11 important for me to address are the bike and pedestrian safety because of the mass of a bike or 12 a pedestrian compared to a vehicle. And, because so many of our bicyclists and pedestrians are 13 young people, I think the Safe Routes to School are is really important, and that also ties into all 14 the new housing going in because it’s not going into places where… it’s not necessarily going 15 into places where drivers are currently used to seeing that many bikes and pedestrians and we 16 need a plan. Thank you. 17 18 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner Reckdahl. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Reckdahl: Can you talk about the difference between Safe System and Vision 1 Zero, are they the same thing or is there some distinction between the two? 2 3 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: They’re essentially the same, but the goal is 4 zero death and serious injuries and the way that you get there is through a Safe System 5 Approach. 6 7 Commissioner Reckdahl: Okay, yeah, they look very similar to me. I love the website, I love that 8 the fact that the general public can put in information, and I have kind of two fears about that, 9 one is we won’t get enough data, or we may get way too much data and it will take a manned 10 person just to dig through all that and triage it. Probably the latter is the better, but still, I’m 11 afraid that Goldie Lox won’t appear here. And, I’m looking through that, one of the things that 12 they mention that I experienced when I bike to work, is garbage cans and garbage trucks; and in 13 the middle of rush hour, the garbage truck is sitting in the middle of Charleston, blocking the 14 bike lane. And can we work with utilities, or sanitation, or whoever is scheduling that, and find 15 some other time and maybe along bike routes, don’t have it in the morning. Can you do it in the 16 evenings, just for those bike routes to have one day a week when you’re on a bike route, you 17 but it out so you don’t have to deal with both rush hour and the garbage at the same time. The 18 other thing would be, Carrie mentioned this, a lot of our roads, and especially the higher speed 19 roads are not under our control. El Camino, you have Foot Hill Expressway, you have Oregon 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Expressway, those are county roads. I’m afraid that we’re going to go through all this effort and 1 find, yeah, here’s a good idea, but then the State or the County says we can’t do that. Have you 2 thought about that? 3 4 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yeah, thanks for that. Yes, it turns out that the 5 State has also adopted a Vision Zero target, although it is further away, we’ll see if I can find it 6 quickly, hang on just a second… I think their target is by 2050. The MTC Vision Zero Policy is a 7 goal of 2030. And I believe that, we’ll I just leave it there. Yeah. Yes, we have thought about it, 8 we will have to work with CalTrans to you know, to make our, you know, to get grants and do 9 the projects that we want to do. CalTrans generally likes it when communities raise their hand 10 to do these kinds of things, and CalTrans policies are supposed to be changing around 11 Throughquit versus safety, so I’m hopeful that we can work with them in the future, to fix some 12 things. 13 14 Commissioner Reckdahl: What’s our relationship with CalTrans? Do we have regular tag-ups, 15 do you talk with them at all, or is it just every two years you talk with them when they want to 16 do a project? 17 18 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: It’s project specific, but you know, some of 19 our staff have regular, more regular conversations with them, you know, regarding maybe 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. signal timing, or you know whatever people are working on, so I wouldn’t say that we’re not in 1 contact, but we … it’s pretty project specific. 2 3 Commissioner Reckdahl: Is there any way we can increase collaboration with both the county 4 and the state? 5 6 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yes, absolutely and that is one of the 7 strengths of this approach. And, as we get further into planning and development, I’m hopeful 8 we’ll be demonstrating how that’s going to go, and we’ll come up with policies, procedures, 9 practices to make sure that we have everybody that we need around the same table. 10 11 Commissioner Reckdahl: Okay. Another thing, when I look at the map, is there a lot of good 12 ideas on it now even? And, I’m concerned that, in the past when we’ve had suggestions… Oh 13 that’s a good idea, we don’t have the money or the time. And, we’re so limited both for 14 construction costs and also for staff time, that if you get all these good solutions, all these good 15 suggestions, our wish list will grow, but will our safety grow? Will our number of completed 16 tasks grow, or is it just going to be more frustration and not a change in safety? 17 18 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yeah, I think that is kind of up to this 19 community to get behind the work and make their desires known for what they want. You 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. know, this work is going to take staff time, and funding, and community engagement, and all of 1 those things. So, I’m hopeful that bringing a different orientation to this from a systemic 2 perspective, that we’ll be able to find low cost systemic things. A lot of communities are using 3 you know, paint and posts and different things before they… as temporary treatments, before 4 they go in and fill things in with concrete, so I’m hopeful that we can do all those things. 5 6 Commissioner Reckdahl: Okay. And finally, I won’t give up the opportunity to pester you more 7 about data, it really would be nice to have a monthly report, where we see every interaction, 8 any accident, and I know you’re working on that, we as a Commission kind of feel like we are in 9 the dark, and it would be nice to have that. 10 11 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yeah, no, so there’s good news on that and I 12 think Rafael will be providing those to you, but you can also look at the Pedestrian and Bicycle 13 Advisory Committee right now, is receiving monthly reports from the police. We’ve been 14 tinkering with what that format should look like over the past couple of months, and so there 15 have been adjustments. But, you can either go there to get that data, or I think Rafael will be 16 forwarding those to the Commission. 17 18 Commissioner Reckdahl: Please do, Please do. Thank you. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner Lu. 1 2 Commissioner Lu: A few questions to start, and a couple of comments after. I want to get a 3 sense of the total value of the grants versus what we’ve already budgeted for traffic safety. 4 Mainly just to get a sense of how much the … not only this plan, but primarily the grants that 5 we could apply for would actually move the needle. Do you have a sense of the ballpark scale of 6 the grants we could, or likely would get and what our current budget is for safety 7 improvements? 8 9 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: I don’t have… I’m sorry I don’t have those 10 numbers, one of the reasons why I went after this particular federal grant, for this planning 11 grant, is because this implementation pot is something like a billion dollars every year over five 12 years, so I wanted to make sure that we would get a chance at some of that money. But that’s 13 just one federal pot. That’s just the Safe Streets for All pot. So, there are, there’s a lot of 14 funding available, I just want to make sure… I’m trying to position us, so that we are able to 15 take advantage of as much of the money as we can, but I’m sorry, I don’t have the actual 16 numbers for you right now. 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Lu: Another question, do you think traffic studies and actually shipping 1 improvements take longer in Palo Alto than other cities? Is there something unique or worse 2 about the Palo Alto process here? 3 4 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: I mean, that’s difficult for me to say, you 5 know, I think our process is about democracy and I really like that, but I also think that this plan 6 is an opportunity for the community to make it’s feelings known about road safety. And, that’s 7 what… you know, this is an opportunity for people who care, to come out and say this is what 8 we want. 9 10 Commissioner Lu: Okay, I also worry about the execution of the plan will block us from making 11 substance improvements until the end of 2024. Is that a valid concern and is November of 2024 12 the most aggressive timeline we can take to actually ship this plan? 13 14 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: I want to answer that question but I also want 15 to kind of build on what I had just said. I think that part of the reason that things take a long 16 time is because … here, sometimes… is that there are, it is democracy and it means that there 17 are competing interests. And, one of the things about this plan, is that it’s giving the community 18 the opportunity to have a discussion about where does safety fall in … when there are other 19 things that we could be doing with our roads. Right? So, is safety more important than parking? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Is safety more important than people moving fast? Like, what does this community want. So I 1 just wanted to clarify that I think the process helps us work through these issues and this plan is 2 a place where we can that this discussion. So, just wanted to state that. Sorry, and your 3 question was regarding implementation by 2024… So I just want folks to understand that we 4 are currently working on safety projects, right now. I know it’s taking a long time to finish up, 5 because we’re having supply chain issues, but you know the Charleston/Arastradero Road 6 project is not done. When it is done, we will have bike lanes across El Camino Real at Charleston 7 and Arastradero. We are currently also working on the Alma Churchill enhanced bikeway study 8 which will extend the bike trail that is along the CalTrain tracks and runs down Churchill all the 9 way to El Camino, so that it will meet at the perimeter trail on the Stanford campus, that goes 10 along El Camino. That will create like this seamless, car-free trail that will get you from College 11 Terrace all the way to downtown. So that is happening. There’s also the Alma Churchill Safety 12 project that is hopefully going into construction soon that will improve…. It will not completely 13 fix… but will definitely improve the situation for all the students that use that corner to get to 14 PALI, to use that intersection to get to PALI. At least that northern side. So, you know, we are 15 working on things, all the time. So I just wanted to make sure that people understand that. 16 17 Commissioner Lu: Yes, I definitely understand that, I think we’ve all seen enough examples 18 though, where something comes up and we flag it and it’s maybe out of scope of the discussion 19 or not able to be supported by staff at the time, and I do worry about our overall political will 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. and our willingness to actually move fast and aggressively on safety. Like, I remember the 1 Crescent Traffic Calming project that came here maybe a few months ago, and I think by the 2 time it got to us, we had kind of forgotten what the logic was for some of the original decisions, 3 and we sent part of it back to the drawing board, which takes substantial staff time, and 4 substantial chunk of , I think, our three million dollar budget over the next five years for traffic 5 studies. We spent, I think, $200k on the Crescent Park Study and so, I just worry that our 6 political will to move aggressively here is not very strong. I hope that on the topic of shared 7 responsibility and actual framework, we do some accounting or some assessment of how both 8 staff and the Commission, and Council could actually be more aggressive and be more efficient 9 for these projects. 10 11 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner Akin. 12 13 Commissioner Akin: Thank you Chair. Just a quick observation, one of my favorite policies in the 14 Comp Plan is T4.2.1 which requires periodic traffic measurement in residential areas, not just 15 the major intersections; to prioritize traffic calming measures. And, this kind of proactive 16 approach is exactly what we need to identify developing hotspots in advance and perhaps 17 generalize the areas that we don’t have the funds to measure. So, if some of the funding that 18 we hope to obtain here could be applied to that sort of measurement process, that would be of 19 interest. Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Thank you. I see lights for a second round but I’m going to take an opp… oh, go 2 first, go ahead Commissioner Hechtman. 3 4 Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you, thank you. I first want to express an appreciation for the 5 remarks from my fellow Commissioners, particularly Commissioner Templeton and Vice Chair 6 Chang, who … you know, their heartfelt comment and questions I think really channel the 7 concerns of the community and that’s really the pinnacle of what we’re supposed to be doing 8 as Planning Commissioners…. Expressing these concerns and aspirations. So, I really appreciate 9 hearing those, and I echo those concerns even though I no longer have kids who are going 10 through the Palo Alto public school system. I’ll also say that I appreciate the work of our 11 transportation staff because my belief is that every one of them feels the exact same way, that 12 protecting the children of Palo Alto, whether our staff members have kids in this system, or 13 even live in Palo Alto, but that’s the most important thing to them. And so, I think we’re all 14 rowing in the same direction here, we’re just trying to find the best, most efficient way to 15 curtail harm to people from traffic accidents. I think that overall, this plan is an exciting step in 16 that direction, I mean I really like the fact that it’s comprehensive, that we’re not all operating 17 in our own little bubbles that are maybe inconsistent with each other, right? We are now 18 working on an aspect of the same plan that the VTA is working on, that CalTrans is working on, 19 and that the federal transportation system is working on. And so that integration, I think can 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. help. One of the chief problems, and I think Commissioner Reckdahl mentioned it, is that there 1 are these conflicts in policies. Where we’re doing everything we can, but in the middle of our 2 town is a road that’s controlled by somebody else and maybe they’re not coordinating with us. 3 So, I really like that aspect of it. I have a question and then I want to give the input that was 4 asked for. My question on Packet Page 10, the… and I’m surprised that Commissioner Reckdahl 5 didn’t ask this question… staff is going to analyze safety data to understand historic trends, and 6 they’re going to use the time period 2018 to 2022, and I was curious why is that the sweet spot, 7 why for example isn’t a longer period better? I was curious about that. 8 9 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Thanks. Generally, analysis of collision data… 10 the state of practice is you use a five year period because things change, land uses change, so 11 we use a five year period and this is the most recent five year period, which we have a 12 complete set of data. 13 14 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, I appreciate that. And, I think we all know that you know a 15 good chunk of that time period, traffic on our streets was reduced through the pandemic, I’m 16 not even sure we’re at the volume we had before the pandemic, now. So, I’d ask staff to at 17 least consider whether given that important factor, whether it would be worthwhile to broaden 18 the study. And I don’t know if they do a five year study every year, basically, so they can go back 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. and pick up a year or two, or you have to go back another five years. But whatever it is, I 1 encourage staff to think about that, to give us a more robust data set. 2 3 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Right, so if I could just respond to that, one of 4 the things that would be different… or, one of the things that this plan is going to set up for us, 5 is a set of metrics that we will be monitoring at some regular period and continue to monitor. 6 And as we go through this process over the next year, you’ll be able to have input into what 7 those metrics are that we will continue to monitor. It will be ongoing. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Alright, thank you. Alright so, in terms of community input, I’m 10 actually going to take this list in reverse order. The specific areas of road safety that are most 11 important, I think everybody voiced the same thing. It’s the most vulnerable people involved in 12 traffic, so those would be pedestrians and bicyclists and I think that that’s you know, pretty 13 obvious. So, making the roads safer for the most vulnerable users of the road, that’s the focus. 14 And I think that this plan is designed to focus on that. Because those are the people who are 15 more likely to die or be involved in a serious injury in a collision with something with larger 16 mass. What conflicts do you see that could prevent the city from achieving zero deaths and 17 fatalities, I think this really is part of the issues, I mean the answer to that is human error. That’s 18 what we’re trying to overcome. You know, people don’t intentionally get into accidents of any 19 kind, right, it’s all mistakes, or inattentiveness, it’s human error. But again, I think the system is 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. designed for human mistakes and limitations. Right, instead of the training, improve human 1 behavior, we’re focusing on understanding the mistakes that people more often make. And 2 designed to address that. In terms of the target year, I guess … we could say next year, 3 whatever, we could say 2025, but the reality is that what we’re talking about here is the target 4 year …. This is a target year where …. When we realistically hope that at the end of that year, 5 we will report zero fatalities and zero serious injuries. And we don’t… until we finish the plan, 6 which we won’t do until November of next year, we don’t even know how many hotspots that 7 we have to tackle. And so, I think it’s really hard with any confidence to pick a deadline. I’m 8 okay with 2030, because I recognize that once we get that plan at the end of next year, our city 9 is going to and we’ll be making sure they do, aggressively start to tackle those hotspots. And so, 10 what I’m hoping we will see, is year over year between now and 2030, a reduction in fatalities 11 and serious injuries and hopefully we’ll get to zero before 2030. But I think that that’s, I don’t 12 have any objection to 2030, because I know that we’ll be incrementally reducing between now 13 and then. In terms of the vision statement, this is a really interesting question. Can you pull up 14 the draft vision statement? So, one of the things that really… so let me say, I am and historically 15 have been unknowingly ignorant about how discrimination pervades every aspect of our 16 society. It’s been a real education for me, the past number of years, to start to really 17 understand how it’s everywhere. And, and it really struck me, as I read through our staff report 18 and saw that in December and January we’re going to be doing an equity analysis to learn 19 whether the accidents that happen in Palo Alto disproportionately effect different groups of 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. people and I honestly would have never thought to do that. Now when I saw it, it makes sense 1 and I’m really glad we’re doing it. And you know, it’s also a big piece of our Housing Element, 2 right, and so now, it’s becoming pervasive in our planning and I think that’s really important 3 and really appropriate. I spent some time this weekend explaining this to a couple of my adult 4 kids, that this is a real sea change in the way we look at things, and very important. So, I’m 5 really happy that this is included. When I look at our vision statement, you know, where it says 6 equity focused, I honestly feel like that’s a little bit of jumping on the bandwagon. Because it’s 7 not really equity focused, it’s safety focused with a full consideration of equity. Right, and I 8 think that’s more accurate, but it’s not very eloquent. So, I would encourage staff to change 9 that a little bit so that it doesn’t overstate the equity aspect of this but acknowledges that 10 equity is an aspect of this. And those are my comments, thanks. 11 12 Chair Summa: And, I’ll start with the vision statement, since it’s up for us to look at right now, 13 and I agree with Commissioner Hechtman, I think equity focused needs to become more 14 nuanced and maybe not the first thing, and eliminate traffic deaths and severe injuries, I think 15 all the Commissioners agree that that doesn’t take into account the full sense of safety or that 16 we want people to feel about using our streets as pedestrians and bicyclists, and especially our 17 children. But it also doesn’t take into account that something that may not fall under the 18 definition of severe that we have can still be life altering. So I think we should broaden that and 19 nuance equity focus and kind of put it in a different order. So, that’s what I would say about 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that, and then the three, the other slide that you wanted feedback on, if you could switch to 1 that… 2 3 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Thanks Veronica. 4 5 Chair Summa: Thank you. So we covered the vision statement, I think specific area of road 6 safety, I think everybody agrees it’s most vulnerable and I would say that we already know that 7 school routes, at school drop off and pick up are hot spots already. So, but I know that’s an 8 ongoing thing that staff is working on and we feel, all of us, more urgency because these 9 problems appear anecdotally to be increasing. What conflicts that are preventing us, the middle 10 bullet, I agree with other comments. I mean, also anecdotally, I will just say that bad driving 11 seems to be increasing and sadly, we don’t have presence of police officers on the street and I 12 don’t think that’s realistic, so, it would be pie in the sky if we could have that sort of situation. 13 But I really, really appreciate the different between the last item on the traditional versus the 14 safe system, react based on crash history and traditional and proactively identify and address 15 risks, I think that’s a huge, huge change and improvement and I also think it’s a huge 16 improvement and I thank staff for listening to this body, because I know that we’ve asked ten 17 thousand times to get the police data and I think there’s some sort of inter-agency issues there, 18 but I really thank staff for working so hard on it. I also would encourage us to consider 19 temporary measures when we can use them. Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang brought up a 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. problem, a very specific problem that maybe could have been addressed by temporary bollards, 1 like we use to close off California Avenue. I love those temporary measures when they let us 2 not only change a situation immediately but also allow us to gain information on how well that 3 fix is working. So I think those are really good, what else…. I think that in addition to all the 4 other great comments have made, I think that’s enough, and I know that Commissioner 5 Templeton followed by Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang are burning to speak. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, I definitely wanted to hear from you before we got to 8 the second round. So, I appreciate that, and I’ll will just tag on and say those temporary pilot 9 programs are something that we have long needed in the City because we love to provide 10 feedback and those give us a great opportunity to provide feedback, right. So, I think that’s a 11 great suggestion. Couple of small things and then I’ll get very specifically to these questions in 12 front of me. When you’re providing the data and analyzing the data for areas that are 13 problematic, I would encourage you to think about that in terms of what’s happening within 14 our city limits and not only exclusively streets owned by the city. And what I mean by that is 15 work with Stanford, work with the county, work with the state, make sure all of the collisions, 16 because we live here and nobody… very few people I will say, care who owns the street. We 17 just want it to be good and safe. So, that’s just a data thing. If there’s anything we can do to 18 automate data collection that would help you in your analysis, I would suggest seeing if we can 19 find the money for that. There’s probably certain intersections where we could put monitors up 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that is going to help us do that automatically. Can we go back to the vision statement? I agree 1 that we could make this much more powerful by focusing upfront on what we want. We don’t 2 have to say that we’re committed to this because by having this vision statement, that’s 3 implied. We could put the eliminating traffic deaths and severe injuries up front, so Palo Alto 4 streets have eliminated traffic deaths and severe injuries, and I would also add collisions with 5 children. I think that would handle our ambiguity about people who are going to be perhaps 6 psychologically traumatized, as well has having broken bones that aren’t considered severe in 7 this case, we want those kids safe too and we need to have it involved in the vision statement. 8 If this vision statement doesn’t include that, it is inadequate. I’m going to repeat that. If this 9 Vision Statement doesn’t involve not having children hit on our roads, it is inadequate. Alright, 10 so let’s go back to the three statements, three questions that you had for us. What are the 11 specific areas of road safety that are most important to address? I cannot believe that we have 12 to state this, and I’m guessing that not all of us in our community are even aware, but every 13 single school in this district should have a crossing guard in front of the school. That is not the 14 current case, at more than one site. I will also say, that we need to have crossing guards to be 15 understood that the entire intersection is protected by those crossing guards, and if that means 16 hiring more than one, that’s what we have to do. Currently, in order to get to Gunn High 17 School, students need to bike across El Camino, which is nine lanes wide at that point, you have 18 three lanes in each direction, a parking lane on each side and a turning lane. It also has two 19 sides of the street that are… where the students cross going to Gunn and other students will 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. cross going to Fair Meadow, JLS, whatever. At that intersection, there are only about three 1 lanes in one direction that are protected by the crossing guard. When I witnessed the collision 2 that I referred to earlier, I was on the other side. I’m the person who had to go and fish the girls 3 out of the middle of this massive intersection with cars whizzing by around me, because he was 4 not contractually allowed to cross the median and help them. It’s not okay, this is a joke, this is 5 not how we should treat our children who are required to get themselves to school by crossing 6 major roads and have an illusion of protection. We need them to actually be safe. So, I think 7 that’s a specific area of road safety that is most important to address, to make sure that our 8 crossing guards are available and provided to protect the routes to school, especially across El 9 Camino, Middlefield, Alma, and in front of the schools, where children are getting hit. So, that’s 10 my number one. I would add also, that I know of at least two collisions with children that 11 occurred because at that time of year, the angle of the sun was lined up with the road and the 12 stop lights weren’t visible. This is also an easy fix, I don’t appreciate hearing from people in the 13 city, oh that’s the alignment of the sun, we can’t do anything about that ha ha ha, it’s not 14 actually funny when a child has been hit, and that is the reason we can do things with the traffic 15 lights to make is safer, these are not issues that are new and they’re not exclusive to our 16 community. Find the best solution and implement it in Palo Alto. And finally, I’m hearing from 17 many people and have witnessed it myself, that we have a what did the Chair say, a pandemic 18 of bad behavior amongst our drivers, chief of which is redlight running. I have seen and heard 19 about redlight running. In several of our neighborhoods, we’ve personally witnessed it, my 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. colleagues and friends have also mentioned it to me. This is where somebody will go around 1 somebody waiting through a redlight to turn left safely, and someone will go around them and 2 turn left against the light. It’s completely unacceptable and something that we’re counting on 3 our transportation department to advise us as a community and implement solutions. It’s very 4 dangerous. I’ve also seen them just decide not to stop at small lights on El Camino, because 5 they think it’s fine if they just go through it. This has happened… I’ve seen it personally over a 6 dozen times at Ventura. These are things we can start with, so to reiterate, having crossing 7 guards and allowing the crossing guards to actually protect the children on large roads and 8 staffing large roads appropriately, and staffing schools appropriately. And, when I think about 9 what happened over at Escondido, having adequate crossing guards, protecting that 10 intersection, even if the lights were confusing, they could have done that. We need to make 11 sure that that’s happening at all of our schools to step in and prevent people from dangerous 12 behavior. Make sure that areas known to have alignment issues that make it difficult to see, the 13 lights are dealt with, and that redlight running is addressed and that is either enforcement 14 issue, or perhaps automated tools, which I know you’re researching. So those are my input. 15 Thank you. 16 17 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: I just had a quick addition to what I said before. I wanted to expand a little bit 1 on the point that Commissioner Hechtman brought up about the data collection and the time 2 frame for the data collection. My concern specifically, is that if we have any metrics that use a 3 time frame as a denominator, so x accidents per year or month or whatever, it’s going to get 4 severely polluted if we use data that includes the pandemic. And so, I don’t have a problem per 5 say of looking at that five year period, but if we look at that five year period, we need to make 6 sure we change the denominator or wipe out 2020 and 2022 and don’t really consider that 7 data. We need to somehow level set it. I don’t want to say that we shouldn’t look at 2022 data 8 because that is a year for which there may be new problems that have cropped up … like the 9 pandemic of bad driving that may be captured in that 2022, but we somehow need to account 10 for the fact that there were many fewer drivers on the road. So if the metrics were changed to 11 be something like accidents per driver on the road, then it would be okay. But we need to think 12 very carefully, if we’re using that data. Because I’ve seen in other packets that we’ve received, 13 where we have received data that I think is kind of somewhat bogus, for example number of 14 ADU’s built per year and that’s what we’re allowed to use in the Housing Element, but we know 15 that there were no ADU’s built for about … no applications were processed for a year and a 16 half, so I’ve seen us using that data, or I’ve seen us being forced to use that data, and I want to 17 make sure that by using that time frame of the pandemic, that we do not create a less safe 18 system. Thanks. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yeah, just… may I respond to that? 1 2 Chair Summa: Please. 3 4 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yeah, just so you know, yes, you will be seeing 5 some of the intermediate deliverables from the consultant and you’ll be reviewing it, so you 6 will definitely get a chance to look at the data analysis and look at the metric. So, you’ll have a 7 hand in that. But the data that we saw during the pandemic is probably not as lacking in data, I 8 guess, as you think it is. When there were fewer people on the road, what I recall seeing in the 9 data, is that people were driving faster, and that was not good. As we know, speed is not good. 10 So, I don’t think it’s going to be the hole that you think it is, but you will definitely get to see all 11 the stuff before it hits the plan as a draft plan. So, I look forward to sharing that with you. 12 13 Chair Summa: Thank you very much… 14 15 Vice Chair Chang: Sorry, can I just add one more thing. We do know though, that while school 16 was closed, there were no students commuting. So for example, there would be a missing 17 entire chunk of data, right, where if you kind of said, oh there were only this many accidents 18 per five year period on this intersection, they’ll just be wrong because you know, for a year, 19 there were no students, so yeah. But thank you, I’m glad we get to look at it. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner Reckdahl. 2 3 Commissioner Reckdahl: Okay, before I give you my feedback, I want to give you kudos, I bike 4 down Charleston/Arastradero and I used to do it before the project and now it’s so much safer. 5 The traffic is going more smoothly, going slower, especially when my kids are biking down 6 there, it was really scary, so kudos, thank you for that, I know you did a lot of work for that. I 7 will follow Commissioner Hechtman and start at the bottom. The most important is the most 8 vulnerable and that’s youths, bikers, and youth bikers especially. And also, another category is 9 seniors. If I go by like Liten Garden or [TIMESTAMP 1:48:24 unintelligible], it takes so long for 10 those senior pedestrians to cross. And we have to take that into account, and especially refuge 11 islands. So if they can’t make it all the way across, at least they have some spot to … I’ve been 12 over on Charleston where people have been halfway there and it’s green and the people are 13 walking across and people are weaving around them, instead of waiting and that’s is just scary, 14 it's not appropriate. Okay, so then the second one, what conflicts … convenience, or 15 inconvenience … people like to take rights on red. I like to take rights on red if … you know… 16 and also speeding, not saying that people do speed, but changing the speed limits. Part of the… 17 it’s 18 miles per hour for vision zero. And I think there would be a big push back if we really had 18 18 miles per hour. So, there is a fundamental trade off here between hour safe to do want it, do 19 we want it kind of safe, or do we want it super safe. And that’s going to be a big conflict. And a 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. lot of this is changing driving patterns, reprogramming people, and that’s hard to do. And so I 1 think that’s going to be a big hurdle to cross. And then, the vision statement, I agree with some 2 of the analysis that people have said. The year, I want now, right. I’m inpatient. So, I agree with 3 Commissioner [Chair] Summa, or Chair Summa, anything that we can do to get the low hanging 4 fruit and do it with temporary, do it right now, and then let’s look at the holistic after that. 5 Because I suspect when you start looking at that map, there’s going to be a lot of really good 6 suggestions. And if we can do those with temporaries to improve safety, even if it looks ugly, 7 improve safety now and then look at the holistic ways of the bigger problems later. That’s all. 8 Thank you. 9 10 Chair Summa: Thank you so much. Commissioner Lu. 11 12 Commissioner Lu: I’ll just squeeze in some quick comments. On the period for data, can we 13 include data from some of 2023 to date? Just so that we can capture recent incidents, and 14 potentially recent behavior changes that make these incidents more likely. And like, yeah, if we 15 include data until the beginning of October, yeah, but that seems doable, and it would be great 16 to do as a minimum. I totally agree with all of the feedback on the Commission here, a couple 17 of things I would call out more explicitly is getting alignment on how we prioritize aesthetics 18 and whether we can get a democratic mandate for things like road diets, that substantially 19 change how El Camino works with bike lanes, less parking, wider sidewalks, and other kind of 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. relatively drastic changes but changes that would be good to have a democratic mandate on 1 because they will be coming up for discussion soon anyways. So, yeah, those are some 2 additional comments. 3 4 Chair Summa: Thank you, Commissioner Lu. I am not seeing anymore lights, would anyone like 5 to speak? Thank you so much for the presentation, Ms. Star-Lack, did you get everything you 6 need in the way of feedback from us this evening? 7 8 Ms. Star-Lack, Transportation Planning Manager: Yes, thanks so much, and just to reply to the 9 last question about data. We don’t have the data for 2023, so we’re going to use… we’re using 10 the most recent data that we have a complete data set for. So, thank you. 11 12 Chair Summa: Okay, then if there are no other thoughts, I will go ahead and end this item and 13 move on to the next item. Thank you so much to the office of transportation for going forward 14 with this. Okay, thanks. 15 16 Action Items 17 Public Comment is Permitted. Applicants/Appellant Teams: Fifteen (15) minutes, plus three (3) minutes rebuttal. 18 All others: Five (5) minutes per speaker. 19 20 3. Recommendation on a Resolution Amending the Land Use Element of the Palo 21 Alto Comprehensive Plan and an Ordinance Amending the Palo Alto Municipal 22 Code Title 18 (Zoning) to Implement Housing Element Programs 1.1A and 1.1B 23 24 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: So, the next item on our agenda is an action item. Recommendation on a 1 resolution amending the Land Use Element of the Palo Alto Comprehensive Plan and ordinance 2 amending the Palo Alto Municipal Code Title 18 (zoning) to implement Housing Element 3 Programs 1.1A and 1.1B. You’re up. 4 5 Commissioner Lu: I will need to recuse myself on discussions relating to the El Camino Focus 6 Area. I live approximately 500 feet away, depending on how you measure it, and yeah, I’ll 7 recuse myself for those portions of the discussion. 8 9 Chair Summa: Thank you for that, but you are welcome to stay for the presentation, and yeah, 10 okay. So, if there’s no other announcements, we will go on and have the staff give their 11 presentation. 12 13 Director of Planning Jonathan Lait: Thank you Chair Summa, and good evening Commissioners, 14 I’m Jonathan Lait, Director for Planning and Development Services. Jean Eisberg, our consultant, 15 will give our presentation tonight. You’ll recall you had a study session on similar items before. 16 There is a little bit of new information that we would like to focus the Commission’s review this 17 evening, but again, it’s the totality of the ordinance that is before you tonight as a public 18 hearing item. I would also like to just remind the Commission what you are already aware of, 19 which is, we have a deadline of January 31, 2024 to make this… the implementation … some 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. components of the Housing Element need to be implemented by that date. And, those are the 1 items that are before you this evening. There is a host of other changes that we need to make 2 as part of the Housing Element, those will follow. This is prioritized because of the deadline and 3 because we are relying on these code amendments to meet our regional housing needs 4 assessment numbers, that have been provided to us by the state. So, with that, Ms. Eisberg, 5 would you make your presentation. 6 7 Ms. Eisberg: Okay, good evening Chair Summa and members of the Commission, I’m just 8 loading up my presentation now. So, tonight is an action item to consider the amendments to 9 the Comprehensive Plan and the zoning amendments. I’m going to recap what we talked about 10 last time, including the proposed zoning amendments as they are stated in the Housing 11 Element in Programs 1.1A and 1.1B, and then as Director Lait mentioned, introduce some 12 changes to the draft zoning amendments from the last time you saw them, in response to the 13 comment letter from HCD and some pending changes to the sites inventory. The PTC and 14 community provided feedback at the September meeting, including the applicability of these 15 standards, there was general support for creating a separate chapter, I’m going to talk about 16 additional analysis that we’ve presented in response o some of your comments, and also just 17 wanted to quickly summarize the public comment received at the last meeting, again general 18 support of the zoning changes, some interest in extending those zoning changes to other 19 locations throughout the City, and then also some comments regarding the RHNNA projections 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. in light of recent changes in the market conditions, in the jobs, and housing ratio in the city. So 1 there are two parallel processes going on right now. First is revisions to the Housing Element 2 are underway by City staff, and the Housing Element consultant. So, we’re not talking about the 3 Housing Element as a whole tonight, but we do expect that to come back to the Planning 4 Commission this winter, December or January. And at the same time, we’re starting 5 implementation of the Housing Element, and most critically is this Program 1.1 implementation 6 since that does have a statutory deadline of January 2024. And so, at the same time as the 7 Housing Element is being revised, we’re also moving forward with these zoning amendments. 8 So just to recap what program 1.1A is and what the draft ordinance in general does, it includes 9 these four main components: rezoning of zoning districts that currently do not allow multi-10 family housing, adding multi-family as permitted use. Second, consistent with what is stated in 11 the Housing Element, increasing densities, or where density is not regulated for are ratio, to 12 meet the realistic capacities that are identified in the sites inventory in the Housing Element. 13 And then third, in some cases, additional changes to standards that are required, again these 14 are specified in the Housing Element, to match those increased densities. Because sometimes 15 the development envelope needs to be adjusted to meet those densities. And so most typically 16 those include the landscape coverage requirement. And then lastly, completing some other 17 statutory requirements, including allowing 100% residential uses to be developed on sites 18 inventory sites. So what you see is increases in density in many places, increases in floor area 19 ratio and changes to the landscape coverage requirement, including they can be… I shouldn’t 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. say changes to the landscape requirement, just in terms of where it’s located. So instead of 1 requiring landscape requirement on the ground floor, typically it can be required above the 2 ground floor, such as on a courtyard, as shown in the photo here. Program 1.1B relates to 3 specifically the GM ROLM Focus Area, and that included higher increases in density, in floor are 4 ratio, heights up to sixty feet, and modifications both to that landscape coverage requirement, 5 as well as the lot coverage requirement. Also, some parking reductions for two plus bedroom 6 units. And then back to program 1.1, and this is new tonight, our standards related to the 7 Stanford sites specifically. So Program 1.1 called out specific sites, specific standards that would 8 be applied to three Stanford owned properties. I’m going to go through this in some detail. The 9 two properties on El Camino, and then the property at Pasteur and Sand Hill Road. And the key 10 change here is that the current proposal is to extend the program on El Camino to apply to a 11 few additional sites along the corridor, south of Page Mill. So starting with the Pasteur site, this 12 is at Sand Hill, Pasteur and Welch Drive, there is existing housing on the site for Stanford 13 affiliates, and the proposal is to redevelop a slightly larger site, again for Stanford affiliates, 14 staff, medical residents, et cetera. And so this would redevelop both the existing apartments 15 and add an additional parcel. There is an easement, a no build easement, on the site. And so, 16 you’ll see separate buildings, most likely in this location. A project would be required to pay the 17 inclusionary housing fee payment, and would be required to meet objective standards, as 18 modified in the draft ordinance to account for the slightly taller buildings that are in 19 anticipated. And so, what those standards look like are maximum FAR 3.5, sixty percent lot 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. coverage, no maximum density limit, a maximum height of 85 feet, with a required setback on 1 Sand Hill Road, and a daylight plane that would reduce the height on Sand Hill Road, open 2 space of at least one hundred square feet per unit, and a minimum parking requirement of a 3 half a spade per unit. Now, these standards are alternative to State Density Bonus Law, and so 4 State Density Bonus Law could not be combined with this proposal here. And, any other 5 standards not specified in the ordinance would refer back to the RM-40 based districts zoning 6 standards. So next, as I mentioned, there’s this new idea for an El Camino Real Focus Area so 7 this adds to the existing site specific standards for the Stanford properties that were shown in 8 the Housing Element and extends on either side to what’s known as the Palo Alto Square 9 property on the left, as well as the Creekside Inn property on the right hand side. And so, the 10 proposal here is taking into account developer interest, pre-applications that have been 11 submitted to the city, the location of this corridor, as I’ll explain more in a minute. So the 12 proposal here is again, an alternative State Density Bonus law, so these standards could not be 13 combined with State Density Bonus Law, it’s an alternative, projects would need to go through 14 design review, whether that’s compliance with Objective Standards or the context based sign 15 criteria review by the ARB would be required. Projects would need to provide twenty percent 16 inclusionary housing on site, so that’s over and above the typical inclusionary requirement of 17 the City, and would not be eligible for the fee in lieu, and that below market rate housing would 18 be at income levels of up to eighty percent of AMI. And then again, standards would … that are 19 not specified in this table, would revert to the Base District Standards, so in this case, the RP, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the RM, or the CS zone. So, what you see here, maximum FAR of up to 4.0, lot coverage up to 1 seventy percent, again no maximum density, but a maximum height of eighty-five feet, with 2 upper story setbacks on El Camino that would limit a building to about five stories on the El 3 Camino frontage, before the building would need to step back, and then additional daylight 4 planes and height transitions that would apply to sites that abut the R-1 zoning district, and 5 we’ll look at that example on Creekside in just a minute. Open space again, of at least a 6 hundred square feet per unit, and a minimum parking requirement of one space per unit. So 7 why is this proposed in this location? One, there are a few adjacencies here, of sensitive land 8 uses. So, I would have just one location where we have a lower density residential 9 neighborhood next to the Creekside Inn, but otherwise, there are few adjacencies here. 10 Excellent access to transit , to CalTrain, to bus service on El Camino, to jobs, to Stanford, and to 11 services and shopping on California Avenue and on El Camino. Again, as I mentioned, there are 12 motivated property owners here, there’s been at least two applications submitted to the City, 13 and additional property owner interest in redeveloping with housing uses. And then 14 additionally, this corridor has been talked about by the PTC, by the working groups writing the 15 Housing Element, and by the Council ad-hoc committee. So this is not a new idea, but it is being 16 regenerated here in part, as a response to comments about the sites inventory. So working 17 through the corridor, first we have that Palo Alto Square site, this is a PC zone site, planned 18 community, and therefore that PC zone would require an amendment in addition to the 19 amendments we’re talking about tonight. We anticipate that the existing uses and buildings 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. would remain, but that redevelopment could take place on the parking pads. Next the 1 McDonalds and fish market sites, have builders remedy application has been filed, the building 2 that you can see here is something similar to what the draft standards could construct so we 3 have a 5 story building, that upper story setback. At 3300 El Camino, there’s an office building 4 on the site. As you can see here, and then the remainder of about one acre on the site. 5 However, there is a utility easement that crosses over the site, which really constrains the 6 potential development area to the right side of this yellow square. Additionally, any 7 redevelopment on the site would need to modify the parking. So, the office building is 8 proposed to park on the surface parking lot, but instead would need to have a shared garage. 9 And then I will note that the Leasee of the site has noted that the 20% inclusionary rate is 10 potentially a constraint to development and might not pencil for this site. And then lastly, we 11 have the Creekside Inn site at 3400 El Camino. This site is more constrained, there’s a creek 12 running through the site that requires setbacks per the Ordinance, and as I mentioned, this 13 lower density residential neighborhood to the west. A pre-application has been submitted on 14 the site, and I’ll just show a couple images of that. The proposal is to retain some of the hotel 15 buildings, build a new hotel building and new residential units. You can see the proposal is to 16 abut the site, with a surface parking lot and with new townhomes to accommodate, in part, the 17 height transitions and the daylight plane requirements. You can see the idea for an upper story 18 setback. So, some potential impacts and benefits of this Focus Area. So first, in terms of traffic, 19 the VMT analysis, that’s vehicle miles traveled, is being analyzed for CEQA, but additionally, and 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. so no impacts are expected there, but additionally a level service analysis would be done to 1 determine operational impacts. There are a number of trees in the parking lots on these sites 2 and as trees are proposed for removal, the tree protection ordinance would provide for 3 mitigations. On the benefit side, this does provide for an opportunity for mixed income 4 buildings, with onsite lower income households accommodated at that twenty percent ratio I 5 mentioned. The design review requirements are compliance with the City’s development and 6 design standards, whether it’s objective standards or context based design criteria through the 7 Architectural Review Process. And then in terms of the mixed of uses, again, exclusively 8 residential uses were permitted on the sites, inventory sites, outside ground floor retail, of 9 course is permitted, offices are generally limited to 5,000 square feet in the CS zones and again, 10 there is an office already approved on that one sites, which I mentioned. So other facts, this 11 proposal meets Housing Element Law, the programs required as per the Housing Element 12 Program 1.1 overall improves the physical feasibility of these sites to meet the sites inventory 13 increased unit yield, and density articulated in the Housing Element. This proposal does reset 14 the base and density bonus under State Density Bonus Laws, they’ve raised the floor for what’s 15 achievable in that base density and also the achievable density bonus. In response to some of 16 the Commissions questions, first, regarding potential stormwater and flood impacts in the GM 17 ROLM area west of Bayshore. So just you know, reviewing the arial here, you can see there’s a 18 number of surface parking lots in this area. The area was developed in the 1950’s, prior to 19 stormwater management requirements, and so you have a lot of sheet flow in a storm event, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that runs off of these sites. As properties redevelop they are required to provide stormwater 1 management. Typically, for residential projects, we see these types of constructed stormwater 2 planters and then as well as the retention basins. And so, we can anticipate many of these sites, 3 that the stormwater management will improve with redevelopment. We also discussed last 4 time.. what could these projects look like. In general, we can anticipate that projects will look 5 more like what you’ve started to see in terms of new development on El Camino, on San 6 Antonio, all throughout the city. The objective design standards are intended to help support 7 the design priorities that the city has articulated. So for example, looking at parking, whereas 8 objective design standards require parking to be located on secondary streets, to be articulated 9 to be surrounded by habitable uses, but you can’t have these kind of open garages that may 10 have been permitted elsewhere in the past. The staff report also shows an analysis minimum 11 density standards, this is a change in this current version of the draft standards, where we have 12 identified somewhat higher minimum densities to encourage and require higher density, multi-13 family housing. And so, pushing developments towards stacked flats, rather than towards 14 townhomes. Now townhome densities really can range, as you can see on the screen, when you 15 have drive aisles, when you have more space, when you have larger sites that require more 16 access, you end up with lower density minimums. First as a more urban context where you 17 have a more attached townhomes. [TIMESTAMP 2:11 unintelligible] parking where densities 18 can achieve more than four units per acre. Last but not least, the Comprehensive Plan is 19 required to be internally consistent so, the last use element which consists of the Housing 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Element, and consistent with the zoning ordinance. So, zoning changes necessitate certain 1 changes to the land use element to account for the higher densities, FAR’s and the types of 2 uses. So, those are noted in Attachment “A”. I do want to acknowledge that with the addition 3 of this El Camino Focus Area, we will need to further modify the Comprehensive Plan with an 4 amendment that is in your packet, to account for those higher FARs that are specified for the 5 Focus Area and Pasteur drive. Last week, the Council received a preview study session of the El 6 Camino focused area and the additional proposed standards for the Stanford sites and so just 7 wanted to explain a little bit of feedback following that meeting, which was not included in the 8 staff report. Overall, there was support from the Council for the El Camino Focus Area, several 9 Council members did express concern about the Stanford Pasteur Drive site, in terms of it being 10 limited to Stanford affiliates, due to the property tax impacts and lack of availability of that 11 housing for the general public. There were concerns expressed about the Creekside site in 12 particular because of the adjacency to the lower density district and the location of the creek 13 bisecting the site. Some Council members suggested additional transportation demand 14 management measures in response to reductions in parking standards, some Council members 15 were interested in including the east side of El Camino in this Focus Area, not just the west side. 16 And then in terms of public comment, there was general support for the Focus Area and some 17 also requested to see it as level of standards replicated elsewhere. I can come back to this if you 18 questions but we do have some ideas about TDMs specifically, which can be part of a separate 19 process to prepare objective TDM measures for … to require things like free transit passes, a 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. percent requirement for certain types of bicycles, we see a proliferation of electric bicycles, 1 larger cargo and trailer bikes, and then also in response to the concerns about the Creekside 2 Inn, in particular, the City is moving forward with Comp Plan programs related to stream and 3 corridor protections and the draft ordinance does include specific height transitions for this 4 Creekside site, including maximum heights within seventy-five feet of the property line and 5 then within a hundred and fifty feet. So the staff recommendation is to consider adoption of…. 6 A recommendation of City Council adoption of Comprehensive Plan amendments and the draft 7 zoning amendments and our next step is to go to the City Council for a hearing on November 8 13th. That concludes my presentation, I’m happy to answer any questions. Thank you. 9 10 Chair Summa: Thank you so much Ms. Eisberg. Do my colleagues have clarifying questions for 11 staff or Ms. Eisberg, I see that Mr… Commissioner Akin has his light on. 12 13 Commissioner Akin: Thank you Chair. Regarding the housing Focus Area, so naively I’d say if you 14 want to allow a seven story buildings on a lot with seventy percent coverage, you’d need an 15 FAR of 4.9. Now we’ve proposed four, I’m curious as to whether this is because of the step 16 back’s for the floors near El Camino, or if there was another reason of limiting to four rather 17 than going to five. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Eisberg: That’s right, I’d say in general, we want to encourage those kind of cut outs, our 1 objective design standards require a certain amount of articulation, we’ve got that upper story 2 setback, we don’t feel the need to maximize that FAR to create a, you know, fully rectangular 3 building envelope, but we did prepare some site tests to determine that, and so, that’s how we 4 landed on that particular FAR. 5 6 Commissioner Akin: Okay, and my second question is about parking. So, I am please to see the 7 TDM is being considered because I have very little confidence that an average of one parking 8 space per multi-bedroom unit is going to fly. Should we also be considering additional measures 9 like an RPP district to protect Barron Park? 10 11 Director Lait: So, I can help with that one. That may be a policy recommendation that this 12 Commission may want to make to the City Council and the City Council could consider that I will 13 note and Sylvia can correct me if I’m wrong on this, but typically those RPP’s are initiated by the 14 community and if they have an interest and a desire for it, there’s some work that’s done, and 15 then it’s present. So that would not be precluded, but it would not be part of this effort. 16 17 Commissioner Akin: Alright, the reason for concern is if I read the RPP Ordinance correctly, we 18 would have to be in a situation where there’s sufficient interest in the neighborhoods to drive 19 that and that might not happen until there’s already overflow from a project that’s been built. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. There State has regulations over where we can establish districts and we might not be able to 1 exclude the Focus Area developments from a Barron Park RPP, if they already exist. So, this is 2 an area that I don’t know well, but I wanted to bring it up because if it’s going to be an option it 3 might have to be done early. 4 5 Director Lait: Okay, and so we can explore that together, we can work with the office of 6 transportation and understand what the local requirements are for initiating an RPP and how 7 that ties into anticipated or future development. I will note, for this effort, again I just want to 8 be clear about this, because also for TDMs, because I suspect that’s going to come up again 9 with other questions, we are not in a position now with this ordinance, to be implementing 10 TDM measures to advance these zoning changes. There is a provision in the Municipal Code 11 that addresses Transportation Demand Management and we would have to have a follow along 12 conversation with the Commission and Public Hearings to talk about what does it mean to have 13 a robust TDM, which was mentioned at the City Council meeting, are there tiers, when do those 14 tiers kick in, for what type of developments. So, recognizing that there’s a full discussion to be 15 had, and City Council sort of kicked that off last week, it’s not timely for this effort that’s going 16 forward. 17 18 Commissioner Akin: Yeah, I wanted to make sure this was considered as an expression of 19 interest. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Director Lait: Understood. 2 3 Commissioner Akin: My last question is about some language in the Ordinance, but I think 4 maybe I will for go that until our next round. Thank you. 5 6 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. 7 8 Vice Chair Chang: So, I have a host of clarifying questions. But I also know that we have 9 probably quite a few public speakers. So I didn’t know if we wanted to change the order at all? 10 Okay, alright, so, on packet page… so, the Stanford owned properties on El Camino, are they 11 being considered for affiliate housing as well, and would those properties potentially also lead 12 to housing that won’t contribute to our property tax base? 13 14 Director Lait: So Ms. Eisberg, I’ll start here. The properties… the Stanford owned properties on 15 El Camino or adjacent to El Camino Real are not intended for affiliate housing, it would be 16 developed for, you know, housing available to the public. It’s only the one on Pasteur that has 17 been identified and included in the Housing Element as identified for affiliate housing. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: Okay, and is there anything that would preclude Stanford from changing it to 1 affiliate housing in the future which would then, if I understand correctly, results in no property 2 tax. 3 4 Director Lait: So, fair question. I don’t know that the Ordinance includes such restrictions, 5 today, as it’s being presented to the Commission. If that is a concern of the Commission, you 6 can give that to us as direction when you make your motion on this. I believe that perhaps we 7 can, I’ll ask Mr. Yang to weigh in if he sees it differently, but if the intent and the interest is to 8 have the housing on El Camino to be not for affiliate housing, we can probably draft some 9 language accordingly. 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, we’ll discuss more later on, right. Mr. Yang just popped up so I didn’t 12 know if he wanted to answer that question too. 13 14 Mr. Yang: Oh, I guess I just wanted to say, you know, the issue of whether we can restrict or 15 regulate whether housing is used for affiliates or not, is something we’ll have to look more into, 16 and obviously research more thoroughly but it’s something that we potentially could do. 17 18 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, thank you. On packet page 18 it mention that Council and community 19 members… well actually I watched the Council meeting and I know that Council was wondering 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. about the same thing that community… that some community members were wondering 1 about, which is … is it possible for us to put in regulation for union construction labor, including 2 wages and health care provisions, it sounds like it’s probably not something for this particular 3 piece, but I wondered since other cities… you know the public commenters have mentioned 4 that there are other cities that do it, it’s something of interest to me, so I wondered where the 5 right place was for that. 6 7 Director Lait: Yeah, thank you. I remember that comment, and that will be something that we 8 look at as a part of the Housing Element and possibly incorporating that as a program. You’re 9 right, it would not be addressed in this specific ordinance. 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, thank you. And then I had a question about the El Camino Real Focus 12 Area as it relates to number of… to our Housing Element requirements. So, at the Council 13 meeting, Director Lait, you had mentioned that we needed to remove certain opportunity sites 14 for various reasons and as result we’re looking for more in order to meet our, you know, six 15 thousand odd requirement. So, I was wondering if the… how the creation of the El Camino Real 16 Focus Area may or may not help us in terms of numbers. Are the numbers we need then made 17 up for by that area, or do we still need to look for additional sites. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Director Lait: So, this is an area of work that remains a little bit in flux, it reported a week ago 1 that we were deficient by one or two hundred units. Today, I can report, that we have made up 2 that difference and we have a little bit of surplus going into the next week. 3 4 Vice Chair Chang: Well, that’s good news. But then the El Camino Real Focus Area isn’t 5 specifically meant to offset that decrease that we had to … from the removal of certain sites, is 6 it? 7 8 Director Lait: It’s part of the overall response to RHNA. So, if we pulled off a site, then we 9 would likely need to go back and find another site or sites, to make up the difference. 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, thank you. And then on Packet Page 25, and Ms. Eisberg also 12 mentioned, that we’re not addressing certain other programs, such as the reduction of 13 commercial FARs, when will we be doing those changes? I know that they’re not mandated by 14 State Law the way these changes are, so obviously we’re prioritizing the things, that are 15 required by State law, but things like reducing commercial FARs that are allowed as soon as 16 possible, will help us in our overall cause towards meeting the RHNA requirements, and so, if 17 we put this in place first, and then start getting all these applications that include commercial 18 FAR, then we’re kind of not maximizing the potential of some of our higher potential sites. So, 19 I’m wondering, do we have a timeline for that? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Director Lait: So the Housing Element that was adopted in May has a timeline of December… 2 the end of 2025; is, what we’ve reported as the timeline for that particular 3 4 Vice Chair Chang: So we’ll have two years essentially… like this year, and all of next year of 5 applications that come in with commercial FAR. 6 7 Director Lait: Yes, I will note, we do not have a lot of commercial office FAR development 8 applications in process… 9 10 Vice Chair Chang: Because there’s so much inventory right now. Okay. 11 12 Director Lait: But, you know, and the PTC will have an opportunity to look at those timelines for 13 those programs, because you will have another opportunity to make a recommendation to City 14 Council and if you feel that’s a timeline that needs to be adjusted (interrupted) 15 16 Vice Chair Chang: Accelerated potentially… Okay. 17 18 Director Lait: But if you accelerate one… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: I understand. 1 2 Director Lait: Okay, thank you. 3 4 Vice Chair Chang: We’ve a finite number of hours. Okay. And then finally, for the GM ROLM 5 Focus Area, so this is like the Table on Packet Page 77, does this mean that density bonus could 6 be used on top of these areas, and that then the sixty foot maximum height could then become 7 thirty feet higher, and is there a way… yeah… welp let me start with that. 8 9 Ms. Eisberg: So, yes, in terms of GM ROLM Focus Area, that’s resetting the base density, 10 however, there’s not maximum density prescribed for that district. And so, in that case, the 11 density bonus would be calculated off of the floor area ratio. Now the height is distinct. 12 Someone can request a height waiver and so, you know, typically it might add a story or two, 13 but it’s not necessarily a doubling… or I’m sorry, a 50% increase in height. It’s only an increase 14 in FAR and then waivers associated with other physical development standards. 15 16 Vice Chair Chang: Is there any way that we can … I’m concerned about it for reasons of bird 17 strikes, you know, in an environmentally sensitive… it’s a migratory path. Is there a way that we 18 can similarly put in place something that’s an alternative to density bonus, the way we are for El 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Camino, so that… is there anything that we can do so that the height waivers cannot be 1 requested, is what I’m wondering. 2 3 Mr. Yang: So, I’m not sure that there is very much that we can do, on that front. I think the best 4 we can do to try to avoid waivers in height is to make our other development standards 5 permissive so that additional height isn’t going to be necessary. You know, so if you are getting 6 an extra 10% or 15% of FAR under Density Bonus Law, if we allow it to be placed in other areas, 7 then you know, typically someone won’t want to go up beyond, you know, an extra story 8 because that adds more cost. 9 10 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, but is there a way for us to structure this the way that we have for the 11 El Camino Focus Area where the incentives… or the … it’s an alternative to State Density Bonus 12 Law? 13 14 Director Lait: Yeah, so maybe I’ll chime in here. So, the way … So, I think it would be difficult. 15 The reason the ROLM and the GM standards are being reset to a new base district standard is 16 to accommodate sort of the outcome of the Housing Element process. And for us to achieve the 17 densities that we’ve stated that we want to achieve in this area, we went through an analysis 18 and we found out that we have to make these changes to the base zoning. So when you have 19 your base zoning standard, a developer can look at that and then elect to take advantage of the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. State Density Bonus. So that’s the process that we have before you today. We’re also going to 1 come back next year, with a housing incentive program which will provide what we believe, 2 incentives for a developer to take advantage of our local program and not take advantage of 3 the State Density Bonus, because we believe that our local program will be actually more 4 advantageous to a developer than using the State Density Bonus program. That’s distinguished 5 from the El Camino Real Focus Area, where we are … where we believe that the existing base 6 zoning standards can achieve a certain amount of density already, but the Housing Focus Area 7 allows us to achieve even greater density units in exchange for these inclusionary requirements 8 in different development standards. We’re stipulating that this is an alternative to the State 9 Density Bonus. That’s the distinction in those areas. Two other notes, when we come back with 10 the HIP, I’m not sure we’re going to solve your primary concern about height, because this was 11 an area where there was a lot of focus growth opportunities. But we are also working on an 12 initiative now city wide, to address bird safe glass. And that’s an ordinance that we hope to 13 have completed by June next year. 14 15 Vice Chair Chang: Great. That makes me feel a lot better at least about the bird strikes. Thank 16 you for that information, it’s unfortunate that we can’t do it other ways probably, but thank 17 you. Alright, that’s it for my questions for now. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Okay, any other questions, clarifying questions before we go to public comment. 1 Nope, okay, so we can go to public comments, and I’m trying to figure out how many people we 2 have in the room and on zoom, so how many total commenters? 3 4 Ms. Dao: I have five in person and seven on zoom. 5 6 PUBLIC COMMENTS 7 8 Chair Summa: Would my colleagues like to give the speakers three minutes? Is everybody good 9 with that? Okay. Then we will have all the speakers… All the speakers will have three minutes. 10 Thank you. We can start with that Ms. Dao. 11 12 Ms. Dao: Okay. Up first is Julie Baskin. 13 14 Ms. Julie Baskind: Hello Commissioners, I’m here representing the California Redwoods. Where 15 at 4250 El Camino. Is the mic on? Okay can you hear me now? Good. Alright, I’m representing 16 the Palo Alto Redwoods, we’re at 4250 El Camino Real and we submitted a letter yesterday that 17 is in your public comment packet, pages 19 – 30, from Christie Baskind. And for some of you 18 that don’t know, we’re a community of 117 condos over 275 residents, and we submitted a 19 letter addressing a simple change to be made in the language modification of the zoning code. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Our suggestion seeks a minor change in two sections of that code so that residential uses on 1 properties not zoned residential, we are zoned commercial and have been since 1982, can be 2 treated the same as other residential uses, so instead of just limiting existing productions to not 3 only those that are zoned residential. This modest change would mean that certain 4 development standards would be required for commercial developments next to ours and 5 other similar residential communities. It would not limit residential development in any way. 6 Our recommendation is simply to ensure that communities like ours across the city can benefit 7 from a consistent citywide standard that receives the same protections as other residential 8 communities, such as the late night noise, minimum setbacks, and daylight plane requirements. 9 Our recommendation is modifying the wording of two sections of the code that instead of 10 saying “residential zoning”, says residential uses. And that would achieve that these results and 11 also greatly reduce the work load for new project developments as they arise within the city. 12 Thank you. 13 14 Chair Summa: Thank you so much Ms. Baskind. I did want to just mention that that is not on 15 the Agenda for this evening, but that you for speaking and bringing it to the attention of us and 16 the public. So we can not comment it this evening, because it’s not part of our agenda. 17 18 Ms. Baskind: It seemed like it was adjacent. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: It is physically adjacent, but it would have to be Agendized, but I’m hoping that 1 will happen soon. Thank you very much. Our next speaker please. 2 3 Ms. Dao: Next is Jessica Von Borck. 4 5 Ms. Jessica Von Borck: Good evening, Chair Summa and Commissioners, my name is Jessica Von 6 Borck, I’m the Executive Director of land use at Stanford University, both Jean Schnyder, who’s 7 the Associate VP of Real Estate and myself participated as representatives of Stanford in the 8 Housing Element working group over the past few years, and we really appreciated the 9 discussion and the process as well, in terms of looking at future housing in the city of Palo Alto. 10 We understand from the City Council study session last week, that the Council has questions 11 regarding Pasteur Drive. And specifically, Stanford’s position that this housing must be for 12 Stanford’s affiliates. Over two years ago when Stanford initiated identifying sites across our 13 lands in Palo Alto that we believed were suitable for the inclusion in the Housing Element, we 14 chose these for very deliberate reasons. First and foremost, they are aligned with HCD’s 15 requirement that a site be available. Each is unincumbered with any long term land leases, 16 ground leases, meaning Stanford could control the outcome to today. All sites meet several of 17 Stanford’s planning principles around housing, meaning infill development is very important to 18 us, no impact on existing R-1 developments, transit rich locations, and it’s served by existing 19 amenities. While we believe some sites could be appropriate for community workforce housing, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. we were clear from the beginning that the Pasteur Drive would be restricted to Stanford 1 affiliates. The site is directly adjacent to Stanford campus and the medical center, it’s across the 2 street from university housing, and encompasses Welch Road Apartments which currently 3 house affiliates. We’ve been transparent about this intention throughout the Housing Element 4 process as well, and we’d like to reiterate our position on this, that has not changed. Our 5 motivation is to provide housing for our affiliates at a discounted rate, affiliates include faculty, 6 researchers, service workers, and other staff such as myself and post docs. All of whom are part 7 of this community and whom happen to make up the work force both on campus and in Palo 8 Alto at our medical center. We are and will continue to facilitate the development of housing 9 for the community and other locations on Stanford land. We cannot imagine a situation, 10 however, where Stanford would accept a restriction of 100%, against 100% of affiliate housing 11 at Pasteur, nor proceed with building housing under that condition. We wanted to share this 12 with you so that the Planning Commission and the City Council can make informed decisions 13 about the next Housing Element draft and the zoning ordinance updates. Thank you very much 14 for the opportunity to speak today. 15 16 Chair Summa: Thank you. 17 18 Ms. Dao: Next is Mark Johnson. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Mark Johnson: Members of the Commission, good evening. My name is Mark Johnson, I’m 1 with the Acclaim Companies. Acclaim is a real estate development company and we have deep 2 roots here in the area. In January of this year we submitted an application, an SB 330 3 application for 380 units, and we followed that SB 330 application with a formal application 4 that was submitted in June. Again, it’s 380 units of multifamily apartments at 3128 El Camino 5 Real, and 3150 El Camino Real, the fish market and the current McDonalds. We’ve since 6 received one round of comments from planning and we just recently this last week, responded 7 to those comments. Our submittal includes affordable housing, as well as it employs certain 8 tools related to the State Housing Density Bonus Laws. As the draft development standards for 9 the El Camino Corridor, as well as the Housing Element illustrate, this is an area that can handle 10 some density. One of the few areas in Palo Alto that can take density. It’s not adjacent to any 11 single family residence, as well as being in the shadows of the two most tallest buildings in the 12 city. Our architects at Studio T Squared have designed a beautiful, high end project that we are 13 pleased to be able to present to the City of Palo Alto. The site is currently listed, as was 14 indicated in the earlier presentation, as part of the site inventory for the draft Housing Element. 15 And as a site that is likely to be developed and add immensely to the RHNA numbers that the 16 State is requiring for Palo Alto. So, I have two comments on that tonight. First we… and we just 17 recently reviewed the staff comments, and we were a bit surprised in reviewing those 18 comments, that the City may exclude this site from the site inventory unless we agree not to 19 use the State Density Bonus Law at all. We believe that the removal of a site with a pending 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. project application from the site inventory would actually be somewhat inappropriate at this 1 stage, especially one with a willing developer. Secondly, we support the upzoning of this area. 2 We’re really pleased with the movement in this Focus Area to allow this density, and we 3 actually endorse where this is going in this Focus Area. But we feel it important to acknowledge 4 the benefits provided by the State Density Bonus Law, that we feel may be essential to making 5 this project actually happen. While we’re encouraged, as I said earlier, we’re concerned that we 6 may not be able to build this project using the development standards proposed for the El 7 Camino Focus Area, without implementing some of the density bonus waivers. I’m speaking 8 particularly of come step backs that may occur above 55 feet, as well as some step backs 9 against the adjacent Parmani Hotel. So we urge the Commission to recommend to the City 10 Council that they reconsider this relationship with the State Density Bonus Law and make sure 11 to retain this site in the Housing inventory. We look forward to bringing this wonderful project, 12 and needed project to the city of Palo Alto. We know it’s going to be a wonderful asset and 13 provide much needed housing. Thank you for your time. 14 15 Chair Summa: Thank you. 16 17 Ms. Dao: Next is Alex Giovannotto. 18 19 Chair Summa: Is the speaker in the room or on zoom? Ah. There he is. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Mr. Alex Giovannotto: Hello, Alex Giovannotto, and I’d like to comment on the El Camino Focus 2 3 Chair Summa: Have you got the speaker close? We can’t hear you. 4 5 Mr. Giovannotto: Is that better? Wow powerful. I’d like to comment on the El Camino Focus 6 Area. Currently it extends to Matadero Avenue, it just so happens on the other side of the 7 street my family owns the entire block basically, the entire block face, 4.2 acres, which we’ve 8 put together over a number of years in order to provide housing. And so, what I’m requesting 9 you consider is that we include from Matadero Avenue to Kendall Avenue in the El Camino 10 Focus Area. We’ve been in the rental business for thirty years in Palo Alto. Housing is what we 11 want to do, so we would like to work with the City on a great project for the city and for 12 increasing housing. Thank you. 13 14 Chair Summa: Oh, thank you so much. 15 16 Ms. Dao: Next is Sheryl Klein. 17 18 Ms. Sheryl Klein: Hi, good evening, I’m Sheryl Klein, I was also with Jessica in the Housing 19 Element Working Group, I was very pleased to learn about the housing Focus Area that was 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. proposed last week. It has my full support; I think it’s terrific. I would really like to see this 1 replicated in other parts of the city. There’s… we could do more in downtown, in California 2 Avenue, with it close to retail, transportation, and I really hope that we can go further so that 3 this time the Housing Element Working… the Housing Element is approved. That would be 4 great, and I also want to express my support for the Stanford project, the Acclaim project, 5 extending the Housing Focus Group further down to El Camino. I was particularly excited about 6 the Acclaim project because the organization that I work for, all the housing, helps administer 7 the BMR program. The Acclaim project would create I think seventy or eighty units of below 8 market rate housing. We really need to create this housing and this can be done without 9 subsidies from the city. I was involved in the creation of Wilton Court, where the city was very 10 generous and loaned us up to nineteen million dollars to create fifty-seven units, here we could 11 create more units, and the city does not need to put in any money. So I also want to say that 12 I’m a little concerned about the buffer in the RHNA numbers. It’s currently at 10%, and I know 13 that communities neighboring ours have higher buffers and I would encourage us to go a little 14 bit further on our buffers. So, thank you very much. 15 16 Chair Summa: Thank you. 17 18 Ms. Dao: Next are people on zoom. First is Keri Wagner. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Go ahead Ms. Wagner. 1 2 Ms. Keri Wagner: Hello, can you hear me? 3 4 Chair Summa: Yes we can. 5 6 Ms. Wagner: Okay. I am the current Palo Alto PTA president, and I am speaking up to advocate 7 for all of our families and students who will potentially be living in these projects that are under 8 consideration. My primary concern is the Pasteur at Sand Hill project because that one would 9 not bring… potentially would not bring money into support Palo Alto schools. I would like, 10 before the upzoning is permitted, I would like some arrangement made to … for Stanford to be 11 able to contribute to the education of their students. This is… it costs approximately $25,000 a 12 student per year, so, we need some method of paying for that. So, you know, the school district 13 needs that money. I don’t know how we would be able to support that. It could potentially… 14 that site alone could potentially bring two hundred or so students to our schools, and their… 15 where would they go to school? Is there a school nearby, maybe? Maybe we could identify a 16 site and perhaps create one if needed. Where will those students go to high school and middle 17 school? For high school they will go to Gunn or Paly. Those are not on their campus, they need 18 to be able to get to those schools, the same thing with the middle schools. These students will 19 go to Fletcher, Turman, or Greene. How will they get there? This is going to be an issue for, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. especially based on the previous… the previous discussion topic for Safe Routes. These kids 1 need to be able to get to the schools safely. We need to be able to pay for the students in 2 schools, we need to be able to get them to schools, I want that to be part of the development 3 of all these… it’s a concern for all these projects. They need to be in the development, we need 4 to figure out how to get these kids to school. And so, looking at the routes they might take after 5 the fact, are too late. We need to, within the proposals, we need these… we need these 6 considerations. We’ve… our streets are tricky right now. We’ve got many intersections, and we 7 have to be able to pay for those protections too. How are we going to do that? We desperately 8 need traffic reduction, and we need to encourage that and the only way… one way to 9 encourage that is to get kids biking and walking. And if their parents don’t feel like their safe, 10 they won’t let them do that. So, I want you to consider all of the methods that this kids are 11 going to need to get to the schools, how are they going to get there, how are we going to pay 12 for their education, and I would really encourage this commission and Council to look at 13 funding for our schools. Thank you very much. 14 15 Chair Summa: Thank you. 16 17 Ms. Dao: Next is Winter Dellenbach. 18 19 Chair Summa: Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ms. Winter Dellenbach: Hi everyone, please put up my slide. The slide here is showing 2 Matadero Creek as it runs through what’s known as Creekside Inn at 3400 El Camino, I asked 3 Commissioners to be aware and concerned about city creek setback requirements, as they are 4 currently in our Municipal Code and new development. Required creek setbacks is governed by 5 18.40.140 Stream Corridor Protection Ordinance. In this ordinance there is only a twenty foot 6 setback requirement for the banks of a creek with a mile wide built in exception to that. It only 7 takes a geotechnical engineer to report that a building within the twenty foot setback won’t 8 destabilize creek banks to allow development right up to the creek. But creek protection can no 9 longer be seen as only creek bank protection. We must protect creek ecosystems, a mere 10 twenty foot setback with as big as a bulldozer exception to it, is unacceptable in this day and 11 age with our increased environmental consciousness and impending rush development. We 12 must make changes for more creek protection. As mentioned in your staff report, and at this 13 meeting, the Creekside Inn development had some real complications and is very troublesome. 14 Creekside Inn, with Matadero Creek winding diagonally completely across the property, is an 15 example of why we need larger creek setbacks that can not be dismissed with a geotechnical 16 report. It is not just a matter of creek backs… banks, but of entire Riparian corridors created by 17 creek with wildlife habitat, native riparian plants and… that provide a natural filtration system 18 for stormwater runoff. The current Creekside Inn proposal includes 185 apartments, four 19 townhouses, and 137 hotel rooms. Drawings show Matadero Creek as nearly obliterated, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. subsumed by six story buildings jammed onto the property. The stated purpose of our Stream 1 Corridor Protection ordinance is, and I quote” the purpose of the water resources protected 2 measures specified here is to provide site planning and development standards design to 3 preserve riparian resources, protect improvements from damage caused by potential stream 4 flooding and bank erosion and minimize stormwater pollution. And yet, it does not do that. The 5 current ordinance doesn’t fulfill its own purposes stated and must be changed to provide 6 increased development setbacks and added protection for riparian ecosystems as a couple of 7 City Council members have asked for and I hope you do too. Thank you. 8 9 Chair Summa: Thank you very much. Our next speaker… 10 11 Ms. Dao: Next is Terry Godfrey. 12 13 Ms. Terry Godfrey: Hi good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Terry 14 Godfrey. My comments will be really to the Stanford project proposed for Pasteur and Sand 15 Hill. I’ve been a resident of Palo Alto for the last twenty-four years, I live in Evergreen Park. For 16 some context, I’m a former Palo Alto Unified School District Board President, I’m a former 17 president of the Palo Alto Partners in Education Foundation, an all volunteer organization for 18 raising funds for the Palo Alto schools, I’m a former Palo Alto PTA president, much like Keri 19 Wagner, who is now, and I’m currently a candidate for [TIMESTAMP 2:54:53 Unintelligible] 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. College District Board, which would also be effected by this decision around property taxes and 1 the Stanford development. I just want to give that background as some context as someone 2 who has raised funds in Palo Alto and spent and managed funds in the Palo Alto schools. The 3 decision related to that proposed development of more than 400 units and limited to Stanford 4 affiliated renters, thus making it exempt from property taxes is of course concerning. As Ms. 5 Wagner said, that’s potentially hundreds of students at $25,000 dollars per student per year to 6 educate, feels like about $5 million dollars. While Stanford and Palo Alto have a joint concern 7 and desire to educate all children, we would hope that Stanford would participate in that 8 process. When I think back to the days and the folks who are raising funds at Palo Alto Partners 9 in Education at $5 million dollars a year, it’s a hundred plus volunteers who hustle all year long 10 to help raise those funds. It would feel disrespectful to ask Stanford not to participate in that $5 11 million dollar funding for the students that will potentially end up in the district and to you 12 know, lay that on the back of fund raisers and volunteers and school district personnel. I’d like 13 you to think about how this issue may be addressed, perhaps a development agreement with 14 Stanford, perhaps it’s some other way to address what could potentially be a funding shortfall 15 and wouldn’t really serve our students well. Appreciate the opportunity to speak with you all, 16 and I appreciate your service on the Commission, I know it’s a hard job. Thank you. 17 18 Chair Summa: Thank you. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Dao: Next is Scott O’Neil. 1 2 Mr. Scott O’Neil: Hi, I’m a Board member with Palo Alto Ford, commenting for myself tonight. 3 Since I saw the very encouraging Focus Area at Council last week, I’ve been thinking about what 4 this means for Housing Element Certification prospects. I would say that when you read the 5 second HCD rejection letter, the scope of the problem is just really dramatic and I think it’s 6 important not to lose sight of that. I compared what I expected the third draft to what I saw in 7 the second. I don’t think the RHNA rezoning helps much beyond table steaks because it’s 8 mostly spot zoning outside of GM and ROLM. The ECR Focus Area is a significant change, it 9 helps. So, was and so did the SB 9 expansion, the second draft. Overall, I expect the ECR Focus 10 Area to make considerably more progress than the SB 9 change on questions like production 11 and constraints, but again, in the context of that rejection letter, it’s hard to see it being enough 12 given the limited area of the Focus Area. I do want the City to reach certification faster. What I 13 think this body can do tonight is ask that the RHNA rezoning changes be taken citywide perhaps 14 as a coupled workstream. That’s a modest move, proposed by staff just weeks ago, it’s not 15 some crazy, you know, idea brought forth by radicals like myself, but it’s the kind of thing that 16 would really impress HCD because it’s a broad reform. As I mention in my letter, I don’t see the 17 RHNA zoning making apartments feasible outside of maybe one more zone beyond GM and 18 ROLM, but that’s serious. And townhomes are also good. I suspect this one move could impress 19 HCD more than all the other changes you’ve seen since the first draft, taken together including 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the ECR Focus Area. That was a very good staff proposal. We heard from the Planning Director 1 tonight that we won’t be getting details on HIP until next year. So I think this is the last call for 2 making an argument that the development standards have been addressed as a constraint, at 3 large… meaning not just constrained to RHNA sites. Finally, I love to see the renewed energy on 4 this. Before the ECR Focus Area dropped I was worried we’d finish 2024 without a certified 5 element. So, I really think we’re on a much better path than the last time I was here. Thank you 6 so much for your time. 7 8 Chair Summa: Thank you. 9 10 Ms. Dao: Next is Ted O’Hanlon. 11 12 Mr. Ted O’Hanlon: Good evening, can you hear me okay? 13 14 Chair Summa: Yes, we can hear you. 15 16 Mr. O’Hanlon: Thank you very much, thank you to the Commission, thank you for staff, thank 17 you for Council for the ad hoc meeting last week, my name is Ted O’Hanlon, I am a Palo Alto 18 resident, I also work closely with developers, particularly on projects that have actually been in 19 Palo Alto so I feel I have a unique perspective on what is being considered tonight, you know 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. really, what’s been considered in the past in trying to promote more housing development. I 1 would parallel other comments from speakers about being open to standards across the city, 2 the predictability of housing projects is very difficult to prognosticate and by having standards 3 that might be available in sites that would not otherwise be known to the city at this point, 4 might have those step forward while others that maybe are identified go away. As you know, 5 I’ve also worked closely with the Creekside Inn, I would speak on their behalf, I am still working 6 them closely. We have submitted two applications to the city. One in 2022, which was about 7 380 residential units and this past year, we submitted a secondary application which was 8 responsive to comments we heard in 2022 related to maintaining some of the hotel use. And 9 the proposal that we have set forth is a 185 residential units and approximately 136 hotel units 10 with four townhomes. This would retain several buildings that are already on the site and we’ve 11 always been mindful in designing that, of being aware and respectful of the riparian zone that 12 the Matadero Creed presents in this project. That is staying within 20-feet of the top of the 13 bank and we’re encouraged by the height allowances that might allow for less parking below 14 grade. And that really extends to across the city. Another project I worked closely on and still do 15 is the 788 San Antonio Road, where we’re looking at two levels below grade parking at an 16 enormous expense, which puts projects in jeopardy. By allowing more height, you can do the 17 parking above grade and within the core of the building, rather than excavating below grade 18 and disrupting more sensitive environments. I’ll close with that and I very much appreciate the 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. consideration, we are excited to be included in this ECR Focus Plan, and we look forward to 1 working with the city on a continuing basis. Thank you. 2 3 Chair Summa: Thank you. Our final speaker? 4 5 Ms. Dao: Yes, and then I received one speaker card for in person. 6 7 Chair Summa: Oh, okay. 8 9 Ms. Dao: Last one on zoom is Kelsey Banes. 10 11 Ms. Kelsey Banes: Hi. Sorry, can you hear me? 12 13 Chair Summa: Yes, go ahead. 14 15 Ms. Banes: Great. Good evening and thank you Commissioners my name is Kelsey Banes, I am a 16 former Palo Alto resident, I lived in Palo Alto when this process started years ago, but 17 unfortunately I decided that change was happening too slow in Palo Alto for me to have any 18 kind of future in the city, so even though I’m serving the city Palo Alto as a County Psychologist, 19 it’s not a place where I feel like people at my income level are welcome. So, I’m not enjoying 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the stability of rent control in Mountainview, but I’m here to support a lot of the proposed 1 zoning changes. As a starting point, it is really exciting to see some big numbers on a block of El 2 Camino and on the border of Mountainview. But the geographic scope is insufficient at this 3 point. And so, it seems like staff has sort of been taking an incremental approach to the 4 Housing Element revision process so I think a question you should be asking yourselves is how 5 many more rejection cycles do we want to go through before you start listening to housing 6 advocates. So, Councilmember Bert correctly pointed out that HCD really does care what 7 Housing Advocates have to say and in Mountainview, staff proactively met with housing 8 advocates, we didn’t get everything we wanted, but we got meaningful changes based on our 9 input. We were listened to, and we wrote a letter of support and now they have an approved 10 Housing Element. So, Palo Alto, unfortunately, has taken a very different approach. Housing 11 advocates have really been marginalized in this process. Council deliberately excluded housing 12 advocates from the working group. I’ve also… I know that staff is working hard, but I have been 13 frustrated with some lack of responsivity from staff so, I submitted several questions to the 14 housing element website that weren’t acknowledged or answered, and those were submitted 15 during public comment period, and there was also a community meeting last year that ran out 16 of time before the questions were answered, and staff said we’ll post the answers to those 17 questions on the website but they have not been posted. So I just strongly recommend that you 18 actively and regularly meet with housing advocates, most importantly Palo Alto Forward, 19 before submitting your next draft, and really grapple with affirmatively furthering fair housing 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. and look at regional patterns of segregation to understand why we are so opposed to 1 concentrating affordable housing by the freeway, where there aren’t amenities or 2 transportation, no bike safety, and why aren’t we imagining bigger projects downtown. There 3 are buildings, mixed use developments going up that are single digit housing counts and it’s just 4 not good enough, so, good luck working in the future and I’ll stop talking. Thank you. 5 6 Chair Summa: Thank you. 7 8 Ms. Dao: And last in person speaker is Owen Byrd. 9 10 Mr. Owen Byrd: Hello, good evening, I’m Owen Byrd, I’m a thirty-five year resident of Palo Alto, 11 I’m a former member and Chair of this Commission, but that was a while ago. I’m a member of 12 the Board of the MV Action and the most recent addition to the Board of Palo Alto Forward. 13 Now, I remember when I used to sit up there that I really appreciated when public comments 14 spoke directly to what was in front of us. And what you have in front of you tonight is a staff 15 request that you recommend to the Council that it approve the oriden… resolution amending 16 the Housing Element and the Ordinance amending the zoning. I’m here to specifically ask that 17 you not follow that staff recommendation. And that you instead tell Council that as drafted 18 these changes to the General Plan, or to the Comp Plan and the zoning are insufficient. 19 Specifically, you’ve heard a lot of suggestions tonight about the great work that’s been done 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. with the El Camino Study area, that I think should be extended to other areas of the city. 1 There’s a comment in the staff report that specifically says about precedential effect, the 2 proposed concept, meaning the ECR Focus Area, is not likely replicable in other parts of the city. 3 I don’t believe that’s true. I think it’s a great process and should be replicated in other parts of 4 the city. Secondly, the issue of the site inventory and the buffer. Ten percent, I don’t think is 5 going to cut it with HCD. Redwood City and Mountainview, who both have certified Housing 6 Elements have buffers closer to twenty and thirty percent, and I think that’s what you’re going 7 to need so again, specifically to what’s in front of you, this draft ordinance contains a finding 8 around the zoning amendments that says an inventory of sites suitable and available for 9 development that is sufficient to meet the city’s RHNA during the Housing Element planning 10 period. I don’t believe you have that. So, I don’t believe you can recommend to the Council that 11 it adopt this draft ordinance. Thanks. 12 13 Chair Summa: Thank you, Mr. Byrd; and thank you to all our speakers this evening, we have to 14 say goodbye to Commissioner Lu for a little bit, and I’m wondering if my colleagues would like 15 to take a little break, is now a good time? Okay. About you know, eight minutes, ten minutes. 16 Okay, thank you everyone, we’ll be back soon. 17 18 [PTC returned from break with all members present except Commissioner Lu recused himself 19 for the remainder of the item] 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Okay, we are back in business here, so, just to remind everybody where we are 2 at, returning to the PTC for discussion on the remaining issues and we are going to want four 3 motions, the first one is PTC discussion and a motion on the El Camino Focus Area, and then we 4 want… Commissioner Lu will rejoin us after that, and then we will have to discuss and vote on 5 the Comp Plan amendments, and after that, Title 18 amendments excluding 18.14 or what I call 6 the ‘other’ Title 18 amendments, and then the new portion 18.14. And somebody put up on the 7 board all of this so we all have it in front of us. So, staff does not need, you’ll see at the bottom, 8 opportunities site discussion, or standalone Chapter 18 versus integration into Title 18. Staff 9 says they have sufficient discussion about that. This is a question for Director Lait, you don’t 10 want to vote on that? 11 12 Director Lait: On the ones that we said no discussion needed? 13 14 Chair Summa: Whether or not 18.14 is a standalone item in the code, or whether we integrate 15 it citywide. 16 17 Director Lait: No, I think when we went to the Commission for the study session, I think we got 18 enough feedback on that. That would be a pretty significant change at this point. So, unless 19 there’s any particular heartburn, we would like to keep it the way it is. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Okay, great. Okay. Thank you very much. So we’ll just go ahead. Is there anyone 2 that would like to start and right now, just to remind you, we’re talking about the El Camino 3 Focus Area. So I’m looking for lights. Thank you Commissioner Templeton. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. Actually, I want to hear from staff about why we’re just 6 doing one side of the street, you mentioned it briefly, someone in the public mentioned it, can 7 you guys… I’m interested in why it’s not more of El Camino. 8 9 Director Lait: Yeah, well, I’ll start and note that as we provided last week to City Council, this is 10 a concept that sort of evolved from the City Council Housing ad-hoc and so in that conversation 11 and for the reasons that we provided in that presentation, are the principle reasons why we 12 just focused in on that west side of El Camino Real. That doesn’t mean that other areas, as City 13 Council members noted, might be eligible, or could be considered for additional development 14 potential, and so that’s fine. We’re not relying on those other sites right now, with respect to 15 RHNA, and we do have this timeline that we’re up against for January 31st, so our focus is on 16 the sites that we’re relying on for RHNA. Nothing would preclude us from coming back and 17 making some changes in the future. Including changes to the Housing Element if we felt that 18 that was appropriate to do so. The other consideration is that a lot of the properties that I think 19 people might consider eligible or warranted, also fall within the North Ventura Coordinated 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Area Plan, which is a process that has extended for many years, as you know, and we are close 1 to having that wrap up. So, it adds a wrench to that process as well. 2 3 Commissioner Templeton: So, are you saying that any specific carve outs that we make for the 4 El Camino Focus Area tonight will be in the one side of the road and not on the other side of the 5 road to not interfere with NVCAP or can they not be in both like areas. 6 7 Director Lait: They could be, except that we have policy direction from the City Council about 8 North Ventura Coordinated Area Plan that we are following up on, and it doesn’t include the 9 development scale in density effort that we’re talking about on the west side of the street. I 10 recognize that there’s an interest to you know, see whether there might be opportunities to 11 have that scheduled, now we weren’t talking about this with NVCAP so this is sort of a late 12 addition. Again, not precluding that discussion in the future, but if we want to meet the 13 deadline, then our staff recommendation is that we focus on the items that we have before us. 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: Well I understand the deadline exists and that it’s a primary concern 16 on the front of your mind, and all of that, I get it. But I’m asking this, like we have a ready and 17 willing developer, we have activists talking about we’re not close to the number of the buffer 18 size that nearby communities have and this is something that fits an alignment with the other 19 side of the street, it’s confusing and I’m trying to ask… I’m trying to ascertain is it fundamentally 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. different because it’s on the other side of the street or is it just how we’ve organized our asks 1 to Council, in otherwards, is it possible for us to do both, or we really have to keep it pristine 2 because of NVCAP. 3 4 Director Lait: Yeah, so, I think it’s a function of time. We’ve not analyzed these other sites, 5 we’ve (interrupted) 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: You said we’ve been analyzing it for years with NVCAP, so I’m not so 8 sure. 9 10 Director Lait: We’ve not been analyze… so, what we’ve not been analyzing for years is eighty-11 five feet and 4.0 FAR and why it makes sense at this location on the west side of El Camino in 12 particular is because there’s, with the one exception for potentially the Creekside Inn site – 13 3400 El Camino, there are not sensitive land uses. The you know, could be a Council policy 14 discussion where they say… listen staff, we understand that we’ve given you direction for 15 height in development standards for NVCAP, and this goes well beyond that. And if they want 16 to make that change, they could do that. But we’re trying to respect the process that we’ve 17 been emb… that we’ve embarked on for many years to finish that project. That too has other 18 considerations about finishing it in order for the city to not have to repay the grant money that 19 is associated with that project. So a delay to NVCAP can have financial implications to the city. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Again, nothing precludes us from making changes down the road. With respect to the buffer, 1 HCD again has looked at our Housing Element twice, as been noted in the public testimony, not 2 once have they criticized the buffer that we have which is a ten percent buffer, that is the 3 standard that is provided for in the code, other jurisdictions are welcome to go beyond that, 4 through the Housing Element working process, it was decided through the committee, and 5 supported by the Commission and City Council, that ten percent was adequate. It met the Law, 6 and that’s what we have. 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. So I hear you saying just to recap, that we’re going to 9 keep NVCAP El Camino boundaries separate from this other El Camino stuff we’re looking at 10 because there are implications that are not on the surface, that have to do with how we’re 11 handling each of these areas and you’re saying that we don’t need to worry… we haven’t got 12 any indication outside of the commentary we heard tonight, that we need more buffer. Is that 13 right? 14 15 Director Lait: Yeah, there’s a few different points there but we have not heard from the State 16 that we need more of a buffer zone. 17 18 Commissioner Templeton: I think it’s really important that we clarify these things, especially 19 when we heard from multiple people bringing them up and we hear people saying they are 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. ready and willing to build on El Camino but they’re on the wrong side of the street. We do need 1 to address that and I don’t want… the same comment I made for Ms. Star-Lack earlier tonight, 2 applies to you as well. We have an obligation to ask these questions, it’s not personal. 3 4 Director Lait: Yeah, no. 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: Thanks. 7 8 Director Lait: Not feeling personally criticized. 9 10 Chair Summa: Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang 11 12 Vice Chair Chang: Thanks, regarding the El Camino Focus Area, I’m really excited about it. We 13 talked I think briefly about it with the PTC Housing Element Ad hoc and sort of discussed what 14 were some of the concerns that we had and where did we thing there was opportunity, we 15 definitely highlighted this area as an opportunity, particularly because there wasn’t low density 16 residential that would be negatively impacted by it. And isn’t it right that the opposite side of El 17 Camino is different specifically in that way, where many of the parcels back onto low density 18 residential. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Director Lait: There are some, including some areas in NVCAP boundary. 1 2 Vice Chair Chang: Okay. So that is one fundamental difference, kind of, in one side of the street 3 versus the other. 4 5 Director Lait: Yeah, again, I think context is important and we have not done as extensive 6 review, in fact we’ve not done a review of eight-five feet and 4.0 FAR on the other side of the 7 street. It may be appropriate, but if it’s adjacent to R-1, the city has a long interest in trying to 8 ensure transitions between those two very different density zones. 9 10 Vice Chair Chang: Yeah. Okay, so I wanted to get some clarifying questions from staff regarding 11 some comments that were raised by the public, one was something about removing a parcel 12 from the housing element, I’m trying to remember who it was… is it true that we would remove 13 any other those 14 15 Director Lait: That was Mr. Johnson. I actually don’t know of a letter that stipulated that but 16 the … he made reference to a letter… that aside, you know, I’ve had conversations with Acclaim 17 properties and you know, before we had the housing Focus Area, you know, we have an 18 application that’s on file for a builders remedy that the city doesn’t believe is applicable 19 because we haven’t adopted the housing element, staff also has concerns that the project 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. doesn’t meet State Density Bonus Law as it’s designed. And, you know, that’s an application 1 that… you know, it may not be resolved locally as far as the outcome of that project. And if that 2 takes some time and there’s some concerns about that, it would certainly not be… and if we 3 didn’t think it was realistic that it was to achieve the units that we’ve projected for, it would be 4 incumbent on us to find another site if we didn’t think housing was feasible at this location. So, 5 I don’t think that, you know, we have to find sites that we think are going to be built and if 6 there’s uncertainty or question about that site, then it begs to question. I do think that the 7 Focus Area standards that we’ve identified are the ceiling of that. It’s largely modeled off of the 8 development that’s on file. 9 10 Vice Chair Chang: Thank you. Thank you for that clarification. I think that’s really helpful on that 11 additional context and sort of color that you’ve given to it, makes a lot more sense then… I 12 think it’s hard for commenters to give the full version of things in their three minutes and it’s 13 very helpful always for you to give us the larger context because sometimes the sound bites are 14 not necessarily a hundred percent accurate. Okay, similarly, I have a question about the public 15 commenter who was asking us to extend the Focus Area by a block on that same side of the 16 street. Is that something that we’re able to do? It’s not specifically Agendized, but the Focus 17 Area is, so what are we allowed to do and not allowed to do? 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Yang: That would be a fine… that fits within what’s been advertised for this item. So if 1 that’s what the PTC wants to recommend, that’s within your study. 2 3 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, but then from a staff perspective, in terms impacts, what are the 4 implications there, is that something that needs to be further studied, or what was the reason 5 for drawing a line at Matadero as opposed to going several blocks further. 6 7 Director Lait: Again, it’s in part came out through conversations with the Housing ad-hoc and 8 also taking into consideration applications and the motivated property owners that we knew on 9 record who had filed applications, it’s also understanding some of the uncertainties with State 10 Law, and how do we sort of navigate through some of these different you know, sort of 11 perspectives. Up until this evening, you know, this is new information to us, that this owner has 12 different properties or different LLC’s and so they show up as different owners, I got some 13 more information during the break, you know, it’s a site that could have potential, but we’ve 14 not done the analysis and we’ve not certainly looked at it in the context of the Housing Focus 15 Area standards that are being contemplated so I don’t have much to comment on it, I will say 16 this though, as Ms. Eisberg had noted in her presentation, there’s a parallel process that we’re 17 proceeding on right now, we’re… right now it’s before the PTC is the implementing ordinance 18 to make sure that we can meet our RHNA numbers from the Housing Element. We are also 19 having to update our Housing Element at the same time and that’s going to follow this effort. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. There’s a fair amount of work that we need to do to respond to HCDs comments but one of the 1 first gating issues as we respond, is understanding our site inventory. So as we make changes to 2 our site inventory, it has this cascading effect in the Housing Element and it has… we’ve already 3 given our consultant the green light to go on doing the analysis based on the site inventory that 4 we have, meeting the buffer that we have established; and so if we wanted to change that, 5 that’s fine we can do it, but that will be at cost and time to the City to make those adjustments. 6 7 Vice Chair Chang: So, I guess, what’s… you know, when we hear something like a developer 8 who’s really interested in it and with something that might potentially be a no brainer, having 9 not studied it, what’s … as staff do you recommend we do, do we just continue as is because 10 that way we meet our deadlines for the processes that are already in place, but if this interest 11 comes… if say that Mr. Giovannotto wants to build at that same… with the same rules, how 12 would… what’s the process that we would follow? 13 14 Director Lait: I guess there’s a couple things, one is it’s not required for the action that’s before 15 you today. But it could be extended to additional properties that we would want to extend the 16 housing Focus Area too. So, even if it’s not included in this next round, as we’ve heard others 17 arguing for extending it to the east side of El Camino Real, we could also talk about extending it 18 on the west side where appropriate, so i… if we want to move … if we want to strive to meet 19 the deadline and if we want to, you know, not delay the Housing Element itself, these may be 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. things that we want to do as follow up actions after we get our implementation ordinance 1 adopted and our Housing Element approved. 2 3 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, Understood. And then the final question I have is clarification again 4 regarding one more public comment we heard. Is it correct that the twenty-foot stream setback 5 could be dismissed by a geotechnical report? 6 7 Director Lait: I was looking at that, because that got my attention as well. 8 9 Vice Chair Chang: Maybe… I don’t want to hold up time if you’re looking into that but 10 11 Director Lait: Yeah, it does look like it provides some exceptions based on a geotechnical study, 12 I’d have to read more about it. As noted, in the presentation, this is something that Council has 13 asked us to look into. 14 15 Vice Chair Chang: The Streamside ordinance? 16 17 Director Lait: Yes, and we’re in the process of securing a consultant to assist us with that and 18 it’s our hope that by the end of the fiscal year, by June of next year that we can have some 19 standards before the PTC and hopefully before City Council. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Vice Chair Chang: So, what’s the implication for, let’s say there’s an updated streamside 2 ordinance by the end of the year, what is the …. What effect does that updated ordinance have 3 on this Focus Area? Will it still apply? Or are… the streamside ordinance as it exists today kind 4 of frozen in place at the time of creation of the Focus Area? 5 6 Director Lait: Well, that too is a complicated question, I’ll start simplistically by saying that if 7 there’s no building… if there’s no application on file and the codes change, when they file the 8 application that’s when the standards would apply. We have interest for redevelopment of the 9 site and this applicant, potential applicant is also asserting a potential builders remedy 10 application for this property, which again the state… the city doesn’t believe is applicable 11 because we have an adoptable Housing Element, but nevertheless this may be something that 12 needs to get resolved in court. And the thing about SB 330 and Builder’s Remedy is that it seeks 13 to freeze the development standards that are in place at the time. So, I would say that we’ve 14 heard from the Council, some comments at the study session and you heard a commenter 15 tonight who has some familiarity with that particular property at 3400 El Camino, if the 16 planning commission felt that some additional standards were needed, those might be 17 standards that you’d want to incorporate as a part of your recommendation to Council, but 18 again, our starting place is the code. And that’s twenty feet. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: Okay thanks. There are other lights so I will stop for now. 1 2 Chair Summa: Commissioner Akin. 3 4 Commissioner Akin: Thank you. Quick clarification. As I read the report here, the existence of 5 the housing Focus Area doesn’t preclude the use of the State Density Bonus Law, it’s just that 6 they don’t combine, is that correct? 7 8 Director Lait: So, you… one could not use the State Density Bonus Law in conjunction with the 9 4.0 and eight-five feet. You could still use it for the base zoning if you wanted to do that. 10 11 Commissioner Akin: Okay, very good. Thank you. That’s it. 12 13 Chair Summa: That was quick. Commissioner Hechtman. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: Thank you. It’s a little challenging trying to focus on just the Focus 16 Area while Commissioner Lu is out because some of my questions are broader in nature, but 17 they relate to the Focus Area, so I need to ask them. Let me start by asking for somebody to 18 remind us of the penalty if we fail to adopt a zoning ordinance implementing at least program 19 1.1A by the January 31st deadline. What’s the penalty? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Director Lait: Mr. Yang, do you want to respond to that one? 2 3 Mr. Yang: Yeah, so, it means that whatever Housing Element we have adopted will no longer 4 provide any defense. Like, we cannot argue that we are in compliance with State Law. Right 5 now, the City’s position is not withstanding to HCD’s position, we think our Housing Element 6 complies with the minimum requirements of State Law. [TIMESTAMP 3:43:29 audio cut out] our 7 position again after January 31st, if we haven’t adopted an implementing ordinance. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, alright, so we’re more exposed, we’re dramatically more 10 exposed if we don’t adopt an implementing ordinance, at least as for Program 1.1A. Now, so 11 we’re moving forward with direction from staff to accomplish that, but at the same time as the 12 Director just mentioned, we’re reworking aspects of our Housing Element right, to address 13 concerns from the last HCD letter. So, help me now understand the interplay between those 14 two actions. Like, we’re going to adopt a zoning ordinance by January 31st, and right now the 15 one that’s presented to us, as I understand it is consistent with the Housing Element as also 16 presented to us, in the draft form with the revisions right, we’ve made conforming changes but 17 staff is still working on the Housing Element and there could be more changes and so what I’m 18 wanting to understand next is what if we adopt our implementing ordinance by January 31st , 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. but the final form of the Housing Element is not implemented by what we’ve adopted on 1 January 31st. Are we still protected? 2 3 Mr. Yang: Yes, because there’s nothing precluding us from doing more in our implementing 4 ordinance than what program 1.1 states. So, as long as we are you know including what we 5 adopt in Program 1.1 states, that’s the important piece. What we’d be doing with these 6 additional elements is going a little bit further and then at a later date, we would have the 7 Housing Element basically catch up to the implementing ordinance. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, alright. Next question. Is there a downside to a bigger than ten 10 percent buffer? 11 12 Director Lait: So, the potential downside is if sites redevelop… if Housing Element opportunity 13 sites redevelop for uses other than housing or not at the density that we’ve projected, then we 14 would sort of eat into that buffer and if we … if we see enough of those sites turn over in ways 15 that we’re not anticipating, then we would need to make some changes to our Housing 16 Element to increase the buffer before it fell below zero. So the only downside is if, you know, 17 we may have to make amendments more quickly to our Housing Element and opportunity sites 18 if we see those sites being turned over to other uses. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Right. So, it seems to me that a bigger buffer provides more 1 protection from these sites that you’re anticipating for housing not going to housing, goes some 2 other direction and now whatever, those fifty units, that site where you thought we’d get fifty 3 units or we planned fifty units as part of our 6,087, now that is clearly off the table so we need 4 to go into our buffer and pull fifty basically, kind of conceptually. So, I was thinking, so it seems 5 to me that, and maybe this is the thinking of those cities that have gone beyond the state law 6 minimum of ten percent, is this gives them some protection from having to quickly make 7 decisions when they bump up against the edge of the buffer. 8 9 Director Lait: Potentially, yeah. And I would note that…. This was a discussion point that we 10 had with the Housing Element Working Group, and there was discussion of where to do set that 11 buffer and one of the concerns at the time, and I’d have to just double check against State Law 12 to reaffirm my knowledge of this, but as cities and jurisdictions identify site by sites on the 13 inventory, there ability to reuse those sites have other, you know, sort of strings attached to it. 14 So if you’re going to carry over a site that wasn’t developed for housing, then you have to meet 15 some density standard or whatever the provisions was. So, I think that was one of the reasons 16 that encouraged the city to keep the buffer to the minimum and again, yes, it could be 17 changed. It could be fifteen, twenty, twenty-five percent. But to do that, we need to identify 18 sites and that again would have this cascading effect and would delay the Housing Element, the 19 Housing Element itself. Meaning, you know, revised. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: Understood. Understood. Mr. Yang did you have something that you 2 wanted to add? 3 4 Mr. Yang: No, I was just going to make the point about having more sites on our inventory now 5 might limit us from using those sites in future Housing Elements. And there are also certain 6 Housing Law provisions that only apply to inventory sites, that we… that would limit our local 7 control over those. Those are some of the down sides. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Alright, I appreciate that, and I see staff is in this continual effort to 10 refine our inventory list. Some things are dropping out, we’re pulling new ones in, we’ve added 11 this Focus Area, is that, after tonight, is staff going to continue that exercise, is there a potential 12 that between now and January 31st staff will actually find some additional sites to fold in that 13 are accommodated by the implementing ordinance that we have to adopt by the end of 14 January or have you gotten to the point where you realistically can’t add anything more? 15 16 Director Lait: Well, it’s possible things could change, because we’ve identified our sites, and 17 our consultants are doing some work on that. So, it is possible that there might be some 18 additions or subtractions that said that we would not likely add sites if we needed to, that 19 require a zone change, because of the January 31st deadline. So, we would be reliant on 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. properties that can achieve the density that we would need to meet our number plus the ten 1 percent. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Okay. And then after we get successfully through January 31st, 4 if somebody comes in with a proposal that is attractive to City Council, say the next block of El 5 Camino from hypothetically Matadero to Kellogg, and they’re interest in treatment similar to 6 what’s in the Focus Area, Council will have the ability to if that’s the Council’s wish, to make 7 whatever General Plan amendment and zoning amendment that would be necessary to allow 8 that project to go forward under the same rule as the Focus Area. Is that right? 9 10 Director Lait: Yeah, and that could proceed under a zone change, either that the city initiates or 11 applicant files. It can be done as a PHC, which we’re not pushing that so much anymore 12 because the standards are going to be in place, but yeah, it would take a zone change and 13 direction from the Council. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. So that full series of questions was very helpful to help me get 16 a level of comfort with the Focus Area maintaining it’s existing boundaries at least to get us 17 through to January 31st. So, the one question I have specific to the Focus Area, is can you help 18 me understand why the Focus Area… why we think the Focus Area incentives would entice a 19 developer to choose that option rather than State Bonus Law with the menu of incentives that 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. it offers, because for example, I read something before tonight… one of the comments coming 1 up tonight, that one developer was concerned about the twenty percent at eighty percent of 2 AMI, right, making that Focus Area incentive package really infeasible, and we heard Mr. 3 Johnson, I think tonight, sort of some similar … he wasn’t focused on that aspect but, seemed to 4 indicate that the Focus Area incentive package alone wouldn’t work for them. And I’m not 5 asking you to speak on any particular project, but just help me understand overall the staff 6 thinking that some developers will look at this package we put together and say… this pencils 7 out better than State Density Bonus Law. 8 9 Director Lait: So, I think the main reason is when you’re using State Density Bonus Law you’re 10 looking at the base restrictive development standards. And this is an area of the city where we 11 don’t actually have a density restriction. And when you don’t have a density restriction, on the 12 commercial properties, you look at your density bonus, based on floor area. And our floor area 13 for residential development is I want to say, about .4, if that, maybe it’s .5, .6, somewhere 14 around there. And so, your 35 or you know, percent density bonus or better if you’re able to 15 accomplish that is based on that .5 FAR. So, even if you doubled it you’re now at 1.0 or 1.0 and 16 change. And we’re offering 4.0. So, in terms of development potential, we see this as a 17 substantial upside to what’s available through State Law. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. That was really useful. Thank you. So, I have some other… 1 well, I think that’s it on the Focus Area. I’ve got more to say when we get to the other issues. 2 Thank you. 3 4 Chair Summa: Okay. Lots of good questions. I’m not seeing any lights right now. I have a 5 question about… I understand we can’t apply some future streamside standards to a project in 6 this area now, but you mentioned that we might be able to condition… recommend conditions, 7 but also could we do that also with bird safety? Because we were going to update that also. The 8 bird safety… would kind of go hand and hand with the stream. Would that be possible as well? 9 10 Director Lait: Right. Well, I just think that’s going to be a more complicated ordinance with 11 specific regulations and standards, that we don’t have developed yet, as opposed to a setback 12 which is measuring a distance. So, I mean, I think it would be challenging, I don’t know Ms. 13 Eisberg if we have … if you are aware if we have current bird safe standards…. And you’re on 14 mute. 15 16 Ms. Eisberg: I’m not aware of current bird safe standards. 17 18 Chair Summa: We have recommendations. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Director Lait: Okay, so yeah, I think it would be difficult to come up with some standards to 1 forward at this time. 2 3 Chair Summa: Okay. Thank you for that. And in general, I really appreciate how quickly staff 4 has dealt with these responses from HCD because I think they’ve been very swift and dare I say 5 nimble, for Palo Alto, but I really appreciate this because we’ve got to get this done by … any of 6 these… what I understand is that of all the different ways that we were going acquire sites for 7 the Housing Element, any of them that have to do with zoning change, we have to get done by 8 the end of January. So, we don’t want to delay this is what I think. I don’t think I have a lot of 9 specific questions, I don’t know if people… oh I see lights. So let me go …. Other than that right 10 now, let me go back to …. I don’t know who was first. Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. 11 12 Vice Chair Chang: Chair, just a question for you. I don’t have questions anymore, I just wanted 13 to move on to like comments, and so I didn’t want to cut you off because it would be great if 14 you kick this off. 15 16 Chair Summa: No, that’s what… exactly what I was going to say. It’s time to move on to 17 comments unless Commissioner Templeton has questions. Okay. Commissioner Templeton 18 would you like to start us off with comments? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: Sure. Vice Chair Chang do you want to go? Yeah, go ahead. 1 2 Vice Chair Chang: So, like I said before, I’m generally supportive of this, I think it’s really 3 exciting. Thank you to staff for all the tremendous work. Thank you also to staff for doing such a 4 good job of capturing our comments. And also capturing City Council’s comments for us, so 5 we’re not reinventing the wheel, or working in opposition to City Council. I did, so, where… 6 what I would like to see is someway to preserve that twenty foot setback without relaxing it, 7 because this is already a naturalized area of the creek, you know, and we want that. And we 8 heard similarly from much of City Council. And also, I’m a little bit concerned about the 9 transitions for just the Creekside property, so for… because of the low density residential 10 behind it. So, I guess this is a question for staff, how did staff arrive at the seventy-five feet, 11 because in my mind a hundred, you know, two lot widths might be more appropriate. 12 13 Director Lait: So, and … I… some of these things move quickly and may not have the most 14 recent information so Ms. Eisberg if you can clarify for me if the ordinance has 150 or thirty-five 15 or is it proposed at seventy-five at forty-five… seventy-five at forty-five? 16 17 Ms. Eisberg: So, the way it is today, when a site is abutting an R-1 site, the requirement is thirty-18 five foot height limit within a hundred fifty feet of the property line. What we’ve proposed here 19 is more graduated. So thirty-five feet within the first seventy-five feet of the property line and 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. then between seventy-five and a hundred and fifty feet, forty-five feet. So it’s more consistent 1 with more of a daylight plane. Although a much deeper one, or excuse me, a more shallow 2 daylight plane, if you think of it that way. 3 4 Director Lait: Great thank you, and so the reason for doing that is to address what we’ve heard 5 as another interest to provide upper level setbacks above the fifth floor from El Camino, so that 6 we have buildings that are pushed back further from that façade. And, if we have a transition as 7 described by Ms. Eisberg, then it creates that opportunity for some additional setback at the 8 upper levels, in that particular location. 9 10 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, I know that we received public comment before from BarronPark 11 residents where they wanted to make sure we had the transition zone I think, did staff do any 12 analysis about what happens if we just maintain the transition zone from low density 13 residential? So, rather than keep… making it seventy-five, what if we kept it as is, what’s the 14 implication? 15 16 Director Lait: Yeah, so, we could (interrupted) 17 18 Vice Chair Chang: But it would only effect that parcel. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Director Lait: It would only affect 3400. And you know, two things come to mind. One is as 1 you’re looking at the development from a profile perspective, maybe it matters, maybe it 2 doesn’t, you’ve got thirty foot tall buildings on you know, one half of the lot and then taller 3 building on the other. So, from a transition in scale just from an urban planning setting, that 4 would be a question that we’d want the Commission to sort of focus in on. Also, by reducing, 5 again, there’s a builders remedy application on file, and so, you know, one of the advantages of 6 this housing focus overlay is it provides a opportunity for redevelopment that would be in a 7 path that would be more favorable to the city, but still provide incentives for the 8 developer/property owner. I wonder, because of the hundred-fifty foot setback, transitional 9 height at thirty-five feet, combined with the stream that bisects the property, it may lend itself 10 to wanting to be taller, maybe up to the eighty-five feet that we’re contemplating for the other 11 sites. So, if that were trade offs that you know the Commission wanted to favor, those could be 12 things that you recommend as well. So preserve the 150 feet, but allow up to eighty-five feet 13 and then also recognizing that there may be less, you know, there’s still minimum transitions at 14 the upper levels as we have in the code, but it probably won’t be more than that. 15 16 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, so my, like I said, my second point is I would like to include something 17 that helps us ensure the integrity of the twenty foot setback. And then second, my concern 18 about this transition zone is … like the way we legislate in this city often tends to be ‘well, we 19 did it here… so then we can do it somewhere else’, and I’m worried … I’m not saying that 150 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. feet is necessarily the right number, we’ve mentioned it I think, many times here on the PTC, 1 that we should study what is the right number. But I’m sort of concerned about legislation by 2 precedent, because we so often do it, and memories are short here. And so, my preference 3 would be to you know, what’s good for the rest of Palo Alto should be good for this section too. 4 I would want to see it more evenly applied, and so that’s where I’m landing right now. And I’ll 5 leave my comments at that. 6 7 Chair Summa: Commissioner Templeton. 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, and thank you Vice Chair Chang as well, I couldn’t agree 10 more. I’m extremely frustrated with this item because we have brought of a large number of 11 valid concerns and have been told if we do any of them, if we worry about any of them, we’re 12 throwing the city off track for their Housing Element and I applaud you for jumping in and trying 13 to work on this piece, which is very objectionable, and seeing if we can make some headway 14 there. Absolutely we have to have the creek setback, there’s no question about it and if it 15 throws the city off, then we have a problem, and it’s not us. Okay. So, if we’re talking about the 16 setbacks against the R-1 residential single family homes there … in that Chimalus Drive, why 17 would we do that to them? That is so unfair, and look, we keep talking about it and properties 18 that are south of Page Mill and Oregon, and we’re not talking about that kind of stuff in other 19 parts of the city and I realize that’s … to Keith’s famous quote, ‘well that’s where the properties 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. are', well, there’s properties everywhere in this city, and we don’t want to treat people 1 differently in some parts of the city versus others, and we don’t want to abut large, you know, 2 seventy plus foot structures against R-1 homes. And, if that’s our choice to accept this or reject 3 this, it’s a hard choice to support the way it’s been positioned so far, and the way that the 4 feedback that we’re giving is being dismissed, in the name of getting this out the door, so, I 5 don’t know what to say, I feel like we’re stuck in a… between a rock and a hard spot here 6 because this isn’t ready. If this was any other point in time, there’s no way this would be 7 considered for approval. So, we’re really having to take our … I don’t want to use this 8 metaphor, we have to take the situation we’re in and understand that the context is weighing 9 heavily on this, and I’m just really uncomfortable with it. So, that’s where I’m standing. 10 11 Chair Summa: Okay. A few comments from me since I don’t see any lights. I agree with 12 Commissioner Templeton’s concerns and I have been a big proponent of the 150 foot transition 13 zone, but I also think that we’ve never had a discussion about it. I don’t know what number it 14 was based on, when. But we kind of… if you break it down to kind of three lots, maybe two 15 lots… width… lot widths, maybe two lots ins appropriate, so, maybe there’s some wiggle room 16 to get a hundred feet at the first… within thirty-five feet… At thirty-five feet I mean. And then 17 the next one, keep it the same. But the other thing that concerned me about this property is 18 both the daylight plane, and this is the only property in which it’s different from the others in 19 the El Camino Focus Area, the ECRFA, but anyway, is that neither the daylight plane, the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. transition zone, or the combination of both address the notion of a setback from the property 1 line… from the rear property line of that house that is on Chimalus. And so, I think what we 2 need is a reasonable setback there, and I think as a starting point, reasonable. And I note that 3 on the plans, the preliminary plans that were submitted for this site, which is a very big site, so 4 it has more flexibility than smaller sites… and we’re not contemplating anything but this one 5 site that abuts low density residential. I notice that they want to put the circulation and the 6 parking in the back, and I don’t know that I saw this in the second plan, but for sure the first 7 plan had forty-five feet from the rear property line of the houses on Chimalus, before there was 8 any building, and that’s because naturally, that’s kind of where the circulation and parking. So 9 there was a two-way parking aisle, and pull in parking on either side. So, in thinking about this, I 10 think what might be a really good compromise would be to require the setback that would, only 11 on the sides of the building, that abut the low density residential. So, in addition to being held 12 to thirty-five feet for a certain distance, and then being able to jump up higher, that thirty-five 13 foot building wouldn’t start until… and I’m going to suggest twenty, because that’s the normal 14 setback and I think an easy way to describe it, what might be where you have … where you 15 have a property in the El Camino Focus Area abutting a low density residential, only on that 16 property line, it should be held to the standard setback of the zone next to it. Because that’s a 17 very common concept in our … and that’s actually where the transition height zone came from. 18 So, I was wondering if that might really improve it and if the building needed to go up a little on 19 the interior, then I think that would be a good tradeoff. Because I’m very uncomfortable with 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. doing this and as much as I appreciate the work that’s been done, and I think that other sites on 1 El Camino don’t have this problem at all. You know. I think that would be a good compromise, 2 I’d be interested in what my colleagues think about it, if I explained it well enough, and what 3 staff thinks about it. And, the other thing is I understand the street… creek… stream setback law 4 a little different that it’s twenty feet from the top of the banks, or there’s another 5 measurement that’s from the middle of the water with an angle up to the top of the bank. 6 There’s two measurements you can choose from and you have to choose the one that is 7 greater. And that the soil studies are done to ensure that the soil is stable enough because 8 there tends to be a lot of friable soil around, near creeks. So I think that’s right, but if I’m 9 wrong, I could be wrong. So, I think twenty feet is pretty firm, although we have contemplated 10 going greater, but I think that’s pretty firm, I don’t think we have to worry about that. And a 11 much as we would like it to be more, it can’t be right now legally, I don’t think. Go ahead. 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, yeah, I agree with that, my concern is I don’t think we 14 can have both on this site. Like I don’t think you can have the … its… there’s not a lot of space 15 between the creek and the back property line. 16 17 Chair Summa: It’s actually a really big site, and I think the twenty feet is not an insurmountable 18 problem, and their plans already show these types of setbacks. Are you talking about the 19 twenty foot from the creek or the twenty feet from the …. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: I’m talking about the twenty feet from the creek and the… whatever 2 we said, 150 foot from the back property line. 3 4 Chair Summa: No, no. Twenty feet from the back property line is where a building would able 5 to start. But we would allow vehicular drive aisles and parking within that twenty feet, it’s just 6 that the building doesn’t get to be there. I can see Commissioner Hechtman is not liking this 7 very well. 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: Well, I’m looking at the drawing, and it feel like it’s … I’m not sure 10 that’s a workable project to space. But okay. I want to make sure the people who are adjacent, 11 the residential properties, don’t have to look at, you know, a seventy food building behind their 12 house. 13 14 Chair Summa: All this would change would be an addition to the height transition and the 15 daylight plane, which we’re not adjusting, we are diminishing the height transitions. This would 16 add an additional protection which would be a setback, saying… currently there’s no place 17 within… you can build up to thirty-five feet high, up to the property line as I read it currently. 18 No? What’s the setback then? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Director Lait: This is a property… it’s ten feet. There’s a (interrupted) 1 2 Chair Summa: There’s a ten foot minimum. 3 4 Director Lait: Yeah, because it’s split zoned. There’s CS adjacent to El Camino but there’s RM 30 5 behind it. So RM30 I think is the zoning and so our code today would require a ten foot setback 6 for rear setback. 7 8 Chair Summa: A ten foot, you said? 9 10 Director Lait: Yeah. 11 12 Chair Summa: Yeah. So I’m just suggesting it be twenty, which is the standard rear setback they 13 would expect behind their properties. (crosstalk) 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: I’m sorry. Go ahead. 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: Just clarification. It’s for low density residential. So if it were a low density 18 residential lot behind it then it would be a twenty foot setback. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Yes. 1 2 Commissioner Templeton: Right. Yeah, and is that that dotted line on this diagram on this slide 3 deck? 4 5 Chair Summa: I’m not sure what slide you’re talking about. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: Slide twenty-two. 8 9 Chair Summa: I don’t think this concept is represented anywhere. So all I’m saying, my idea was 10 in addition to the transition heights, to add a setback requirement, only on the property lines 11 that abut low density residential, that they have the setback of that low density residential that 12 they abut. Which is, I think, pretty minor to be honest, and I think it’s workable, and I think it 13 respects the development that we want to see happen here and the people that are going to do 14 it. But, it also respects the houses on Chimalus. 15 16 Director Lait: So, it is RM-20, thank you, you’re right about that, I will note that it is a three 17 hundred foot deep lot from El Camino to the R-1 properties, so it is a fairly deep parcel. And, I 18 would also say that, you know, depending on what other development standards they/a 19 property owner may decide to take advantage of the standards that the city thinks is 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. appropriate for this housing focus area, or opt to stay with the application that they have 1 submitted their preliminary application for, I mean, that would be their option or right, to 2 submit one or the other, or neither, whatever. But I do want to clarify, there’s been no… there’s 3 been a lot of talk about the setbacks and being less than twenty feet, I want to be clear that the 4 application that is on file with the city is not, or the preliminary application that’s on file with 5 the city is not proposing to encroach into that twenty foot setback from top of bank. There are 6 some existing structures that I think are there, that may encroach, and the other factor is that 7 this is a hotel site, and we don’t really know if the housing focus area zoning that you’re 8 contemplating tonight causes the developer/property owner to pursue an all housing project or 9 to continue with a mixed use project that would include a hotel and housing… we just have an 10 application on file for a type of development. We don’t know exactly what their interests may 11 be, and that may shift depending on what setbacks or standards we ultimately implement. 12 13 Chair Summa: Okay. Yeah, I agree with that so that’s why I was trying to think of something 14 that would not … and allowing drive aisles or parking in that setback, it’s just to get the building 15 further way on the one property line that abuts low density residential reliably. Because they 16 may change what they want to do and I don’t think that… to me, in my mind, it didn’t mean it 17 was beyond attractive at all to the developer because in both versions, the original one and 18 then the second pre-lim, they were going to use that area anyway for that. But it just ensures 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that the house… that the thirty-five feet starts twenty feet away from the rear property line of 1 those houses. Does that make sense? 2 3 Director Lait: So I thought I was following you up until that last statement. So, the thirty-five 4 foot building height would not start from the property line? Or, it would? The transitional 5 height? I’m hearing two things from you, a building setback of twenty feet from the rear 6 property line adjacent to the R-1, and then there’s the transitional height which the code would 7 say today, without this change, 150-feet, no taller than thirty-five feet. And, what I heard at 8 some point in the conversation is, maybe there’s some flexibility in there or maybe not, I don’t 9 know, but that’s the … I’m not understanding where the transitional height standard is that 10 you’re contemplating. 11 12 Chair Summa: I think I would be comfortable with what Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang 13 suggested which was, instead of reducing it to seventy-five feet, from 150 for the thirty-five, to 14 go a hundred, but I also think that if that’s not workable, keeping it… that box with the seventy-15 five feet, for seventy-five feet, at thirty-five feet, and then the next one for the forty-five foot 16 height, all I’m adding to that, if Commissioners do not like Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang’s 17 idea, is the idea of an additional setback. 18 19 Director Lait: Yeah, so I think it’s for you and your colleagues to deliberate. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: And … because I see this site as being so very different from the others in this 2 area and there’s not much to add to the work… from my point of view, except that. 3 Commissioner Templeton. 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: Alright, I’ll be quick. I just … my point is not that we couldn’t figure it 6 out, it’s that we’re probably not going to be able to figure it out on this timeline, given what 7 we’re hearing from staff. I’m concerned, I’m looking at the diagrams and charts that have been 8 proposed, it looks like on Slide 22, we’ve been talking abstractly and not referring to anything 9 and it’s … it has the potential to go well (interrupted) 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: Can we see Slide 22 please? 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: It has the potential to go well, and it has the potential to not, and 14 usually we have the time to go through and be really clear and clean about it, and that’s where 15 my concern lies, not that we couldn’t be creative, it’s just… I don’t know about the time, if we 16 have the time. I think Commissioner Hechtman looks like he wants to say something so… 17 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Can you pull back up Slide 22? Alright, and then Commissioner 1 Templeton I think you had mentioned a dotted line or something, maybe you can identify what 2 you were looking at. 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: On the left side, there’s some dotted lines, but I don’t see the 5 dotted lines on the side that would be adjacent to the R-1 properties. So, the very bottom of 6 the slide. It’s hard to see because it’s really tiny, and I don’t know if this is actually even a plan 7 or if this is just some kind of mock-up, it’s hard to know what we’re talking about. 8 9 Director Lait: This is provided for you know, context I guess for the Commission. This is the pre-10 application that is on file with the City. It represents a concept that they’re interested in 11 pursuing based on the feedback they received from the Council in the pre-screening. 12 13 Commissioner Templeton: But not to hold them to, it’s not plans. It’s not plans right? 14 15 Director Lait: We do not have a formal application. 16 17 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, and the number of units… I know there’s a portion of it’s 18 proposed pre-ap, that’s hotel, but there’s also some residential units and the number of those 19 in the pre-ap? Ballpark. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Director Lait: 150. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, and with the Focus Area Incentive program, are we hoping to 4 get more residential from this parcel? 5 6 Director Lait: I think it would depend. It would depend on whether the property owner was 7 interested in still a mixed use development or whether they went straight to housing. If they 8 went to housing, we would expect more housing units. All housing. 9 10 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Alright. So, I think this is really … what’s before us tonight is 11 really an issue where the perfect is the enemy of the good. This is a fast process, because it has 12 to be, and there are some heavy risks to going to slowly. And my estimation those… the 13 benefits of moving slowly, do not outweigh those risks. I think that … I feel it’s odd to be in the 14 context of a zoning… sort of macro zoning ordinance, that is implementing big picture 15 programs, to be micro designing one side of one parcel. I don’t think that we should be looking 16 at that, at least in this context tonight, and generally, I’m not supportive of treating an RM-20 17 site that has a ten foot setback, as thought it were an R-1 site that had a twenty foot setback. 18 The people in this neighborhood that are next to that property, bought next to an RM-20 that 19 had a ten foot setback and they could reasonably expect that something could be built that 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. close. Now, as a practical matter, we don’t know what would be proposed. And it could have 1 drive aisles in the back, we don’t know. But, I’m … I don’t think it’s appropriately our job tonight 2 to address that. I think we are expressing our concern that that interface between those single 3 family homes and whatever might be built in this box were designing, might be too impactful. 4 Unfairly impactful to the residents and I think that is something that staff can consider as this 5 travels with our recommendation, whatever that is, to the Council. And maybe there are some 6 adjustments, but I’m really uncomfortable adjusting the setbacks and the daylight planes on the 7 fly from here because I haven’t studied them, staff hasn’t studied the adjustments to them, we 8 realistically don’t have time for staff to go study them, come back here, on again, one edge of 9 one parcel in a city wide ordinance. So, I’m not wanting to go in that direction. Again, we’re still 10 on the focus area, and I have a few specific ordinance changes, and I’m kind of unclear … some 11 of them are like in a table that deals with the Focus Ordinance, the Focus Area, and so I’m 12 wondering if I should just… there’s only a handful of them, go through them now. Some of 13 them are for the Focus area, some of them aren’t, but I’m afraid if we vote on the Focus Area 14 now, and then Commissioner Lu comes back and I then offer a correction, on a table in the 15 Focus Area comment, that we can’t vote on… right. So, I think the safer course is just to 16 announce… identify them now and so if I can do that, again there aren’t very many of them. 17 The First one is on Packet Page 76. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Commissioner Hechtman, can we finish the discussion about what I suggested 1 first, because I think at least Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang wanted to comment to it, before 2 we go into (interrupted) 3 4 Commissioner Hechtman: Sure, you wanna have a discussion on the twenty foot setback? In 5 isolation? Is that what you’re suggesting? 6 7 Chair Summa: Yes, because I (interrupted) 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 10 11 Chair Summa: Yes, because I proposed it. If you wouldn’t mind. 12 13 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, sure. 14 15 Chair Summa: Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: So I think that what Chair Summa suggested is was actually a really, a really 18 good compromise, and I wanted to speak a little bit to what you were saying, Commissioner 19 Hechtman, about not wanting to do something that addresses just one side of one parcel and I 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. look at this El Camino Focus Area concept as a concept that could very easily just be pushed 1 down the rest of El Camino, and so I want to… and since we’re looking at an Ordinance with 2 very specific numbers in it, and we’re being asked to approve that, or recommend that, I want 3 to make sure that as we recommend something, that we’re recommending something that 4 could… that has legs, that we could ten extend another block, if applicable, and another block, 5 and another block, and another block; and so, I think that if we… as the Focus Area is currently 6 defined, the suggestions made by Chair Summa only effect one parcel, but I think we want to 7 get this concept of the Focus Area right, and I think… and we are moving fast, and I think that 8 we can move fast with this compromise, right. We heard from Ms. Eisberg that … at how the 9 seventy-five feet was how we arrived at the seventy-five feet, it wasn’t through a tremendous 10 amount of study either, it was something that seemed good, and so I think, I agree with Vice 11 Chair [Chair] Summa that this additional twenty foot setback for the sides of properties 12 abutting low density residential makes sense, as well as … I mean we’re also talking about the 13 hundred foot … changing the seventy-five transition zone on to a hundred feet, so I don’t know 14 if there’s more discussion, but I think we might be ready for a motion and I would suggest that 15 Commissioner, that Vice Chair… That Chair Summa make that motion because she seems to 16 have it in her head. 17 18 Chair Summa: Well, are other colleagues interested in that idea? And I just think … and it would 19 not be twenty feet on the side, because we don’t have low density side setbacks of that size. It 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. just seemed like a little … and of course it will not be finalized, until Council, but it’s something 1 for Council to chew on, if they’re interested. Any… would anyone else like to comment? 2 Commissioner Akin. 3 4 Commissioner Akin: Sure, we’re all beginning to fade a bit now, I don’t feel strongly about this 5 either way. I think the big concerns for the Focus Area have been adequately addressed. And I 6 am contempt to go along with the consensus of my colleagues, but we do need to move on to 7 other things. 8 9 Commissioner Reckdahl: I’m struggling with this, that on one hand we want to protect the 10 neighbors, the other hand, if we protect them too much, we may end up with a Builders 11 Remedy building here, which actually protects them less. So, I’m more sympathetic to the step 12 up, changing that seventy-five to one hundred. The… making a twenty foot setback on the RM-13 20, I’m not quite as confident about that. Looking at the current satellite image, it looks like one 14 of the hotel rooms is right up against the boundary, so in fact a ten foot setback would actually 15 give the neighbors some extra space. And you still have the daylight plane, so even if that ten 16 feet, if they wanted to start, they could only go up to twenty feet right away. So, I don’t feel 17 strongly about twenty versus ten. I feel more strongly about making the seventy-five, one-18 hundred. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Okay, so, would any… is your light on Commissioner Templeton? Go ahead. 1 2 Commissioner Templeton: Yeah, I just want to say that I think we’re all agreeing on that we 3 have ideas on how to make this better, and we don’t have time to implement them and to me 4 that’s a tragedy and I feel like it’s a mistake to rush this stuff and if that’s what we have to do as 5 a city, that’s … City Council can do that. But, I don’t think that I’ll be supporting the motion, not 6 because I think the ideas that are proposed are bad… I think they’re good. I think that this 7 whole this is disorganized and we’re including a parcel or parcels that are very different than 8 the others and we’re treating them all the same and we have… we’re going to face unexpected 9 consequences if we try and treat them all the same. That’s okay, I’m just one vote, but that’s 10 what my intention is. And before we vote, I think Commissioner Hechtman wanted to include 11 some stuff. 12 13 Chair Summa: Of course, we don’t have a motion anyway. Commissioner Hechtman. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: Well, just to clarify, I thought the motion you were going to make 16 was just about the twenty foot setback. Right, it’s not about the whole Focus Area, because I 17 think that needs to be a discreet motion. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: I think if we’re going to make something different, a different standard for this 1 one property, it would have to be, yeah. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: A discreet motion. 4 5 Chair Summa: Yes. 6 7 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, so (interrupted) 8 9 Chair Summa: But we’d like to hear about your … 10 11 Commissioner Hechtman: Well, if you want to make … I mean we just finished talking about 12 the twenty foot setback. If you want to make a motion that whatever we decide on the Focus 13 Area, it include a twenty foot setback on that one side, then I think now would be the best time 14 to do that, because the changes to the ordinance that I’m going to talk about don’t have 15 anything to do with that. 16 17 MOTION #1 18 19 Chair Summa: I suspect it will fail, but I would like to make a motion for the Creekside 20 Apartment only. We have an additional development standard that says that on any property 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. line that abuts a low-density residential, they mirror the setback requirement of that low-1 density residential zone. [voice off microphone] If you want me to… I don’t know, I think it 2 makes more sense as a standard and how we write laws to say… because that’s what the 3 transition is based on, the zone next to it, protecting for a while, because we have a notion of 4 protecting zones where the transition where another zone happens, and I think it’s clearer that 5 way. 6 7 Vice Chair Chang: I’ll second it for discussion. 8 9 Chair Summa: Okay. 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: But, I have a question. So why are we saying it’s for this property only, why 12 aren’t we saying for any property in the El Camino focus area because (crosstalk) 13 14 Chair Summa: That’s true. It only effects this property 15 16 Vice Chair Chang: It only affects this property. I don’t see the point in spot zoning when we 17 might be extending the focus area. 18 19 MOTION #1 Amendment 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Okay, that makes better sense. So, let me amend the motion to read: In the El 2 Camino Real Focus area, properties that abut low-density residential shall have the same 3 setbacks on property lines that abut those low-density residential zones. What? You can fix the 4 language if you’re finding it… 5 6 Director Lait: You know, just ease of administration would suggest a 20 feet setback where 7 adjacent to a low-density zone. 8 9 Chair Summa: That’s fine. We can do that, because it’s the same for all low-density residential. 10 And, I would also say, add to that that we would allow circulation and parking in that twenty 11 foot setback. 12 13 SECOND 14 15 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, I second. 16 17 Chair Summa: Would you like to speak to your second? 18 19 Vice Chair Chang: I think I did before hand already. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Any other comments? Okay, if you can just call the vote please. 2 3 VOTE 4 5 Ms. Veronica Dao, Administrative Associate: Commissioner Akin? 6 7 VOTE INTERRUPTED 8 9 Director Lait: Pardon me, I thought we agreed to a fixed twenty foot setback. 10 11 Commissioner Hechtman: So, instead of those same setbacks, don’t you want it to say a twenty 12 foot setback… shall have a twenty foot setback on property lines, if you’re following the 13 Directors recommendations. 14 15 Chair Summa: Except that I do not want that to apply to side property… side setbacks. Because 16 that would be increasing the side setbacks. 17 18 Commissioner Hechtman: So the twenty foot rear setback? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Yes. 1 2 Director Lait: Okay, but I… 3 4 Chair Summa: Whatever (interrupted) 5 6 Director Lait: This actually may be a side setback. This may actually be a side setback. Because 7 Matadero, I think, is the shorter property line. So, the way the code reads for RM 20 is a ten 8 foot setback for rear and side property lines. And what I’m hearing you say is you want a twenty 9 foot setback where a property line abuts a low density R1 zone. 10 11 Chair Summa: Okay, so, Matadero is the address of this property? 12 13 Director Lait: The address doesn’t matter, it’s the lot dimensions. 14 15 Chair Summa: Okay, then I think we should say twenty feet. 16 17 Director Lait: Okay. And I just, I’ll note, I understand the appeal for having the text and having 18 you guys have a chance to look at what you’re voting on. It does I think slow down you’re 19 deliberate process and I know clearly what you’re saying, we have our notes, and I just think 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. we’re going to spend a lot of time word smithing the text, but I’ll just mention that, and we can 1 talk more about that later. 2 3 Chair Summa: Okay, Could you please call the vote. 4 5 VOTE MOTION #1 6 7 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin? 8 9 Commissioner Akin: Yes. 10 11 Ms. Dao: Vice-Chair Chang? 12 13 Vice-Chair Chang: Yes. 14 15 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 16 17 Commissioner Hechtman: No. 18 19 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes. 2 3 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton 4 5 Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 6 7 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa. 8 9 Chair Summa: Yes. 10 11 Ms. Dao: Motion carries 5-1-1 (Commissioner Hechtman No, Commissioner Lu Abstain). 12 13 MOTION #1 PASSED 5 (Akin, Chang, Hechtman, Summa, Reckdahl, Templeton) -1 (Hechtman 14 No) -1 (Lu Absent) 15 Commission Action: Motion by Summa, seconded by Chang. Pass 5-1-1 16 Director Lait: And I’m just going to leave the property line in that first sentence… “however 17 additional developments” …. Okay but the twenty foot setbacks measure from the property line 18 though, so I think… anyways… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Either lines or abuts needs to be singular but both not plural. One of 1 those s’s has to go away. Any property line abuts or property lines (crosstalk) 2 3 Director Lait: And line needs to be added, I guess is what I’m getting at. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: I don’t need to speak to my No vote. 6 7 Chair Summa: Okay. Moving on. Commissioner Reckdahl did you have any other… 8 9 Commissioner Reckdahl: The only thing is that this is a Stanford property and so … there is a 10 Stanford property in this group… the claimed property, and so is Albert on the line? 11 12 Mr. Yang: Yes. 13 14 Commissioner Reckdahl: So in the Council meeting, Councilmember Burt asked whether you 15 could enforce property tax by zoning. 16 17 Mr. Yang: There’s no simple answer to that. Probably not. You can’t require the payment of 18 property taxes through zoning. You may be able to regulate that the … any residential uses 19 must be open to the general public. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Reckdahl: Okay. Did you guys want… 2 3 Vice Chair Chang: So, my understanding was that after we finished this twenty foot setback 4 issue that we were going to have… 5 6 Commissioner Reckdahl: Okay. 7 8 Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 9 10 Chair Summa: Commissioner Hechtman. 11 12 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay so, I’m just going to give a few suggested revisions to the 13 language of the ordinance, most of which appear to relate to the focus area, which is the 14 subject that we’re talking about now, but a couple of them may not. So, starting on Packet Page 15 76, subpart “C-5”, the first sentence says “Specific Stanford University owned sites and El 16 Camino Real Focus area sites shall, as an alternative to State Density Bonus Law…” I think that 17 this is the option that staff is talking about in the staff report, but I think the word there needs 18 to be may, that’s what creates the flexibility to choose or not choose. I think it should be may 19 rather than shall. At the bottom of that page, number 6, so this sentence about combining 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. district design blah blah blah to accommodate lower income households… So this appears four 1 times in the ordinance and at our September 13th meeting, I had suggested that to define lower 2 income households and district design and development standards, you needed a reference to 3 18.14.020. Staff put that reference in the version of the sentence on 92 and 94, but not in this 4 one on 76 or 90. So, what I’m suggesting is… this appears four times, it should be identical in 5 each of the four. So reference the language you used on 92 and 94 is “See Section 18.14.020 for 6 details”. Alright, so that’s 76. Next is 78. So this is question really, in the September 13th version 7 of Table 2, there was another category at the bottom – RP. And that has dropped out and I was 8 curious why. 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: That’s actually moved up to the previous table, Table 1. 11 12 Commissioner Hechtman: Oh, there it is, kind of in the middle (crosstalk) 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: It’s just relocated. 15 16 Commissioner Hechtman: Alright, thank you. Alright, then on Packet Page 80, Table 3, which 17 relates to the Focus Area, so, there are five footnotes that carry on to page 81, I couldn’t find… I 18 see footnote 1 under the table, but I couldn’t find where in the table there was a 1, to take me 19 to footnote 1. So, you might want to look at that. And the same thing for footnote 5. There’s a 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. footnote 5 under the table, but I couldn’t find the 5 in the table to connect to. And then in the 1 middle of footnote 3, the first line of Packet Page 81, I think you have an extra ‘that’. “Phase the 2 applicant shall demonstrate that”… get rid of that one… “to the satisfaction of the Director 3 that”, so the ‘that’ after demonstrate, I think, goes away. Almost done, I already actually… 90 is 4 the second occurrence of that thing that appears four times, and then the last one is on page 5 91, and this is again, one we mentioned last time on September 13th, you’ve added language 6 “except sites designated as” such and such, this is in the middle of page 91, that should be a 7 comma rather than a period on the lower case E. It’s a continuation of that sentence. So those 8 were the comments … the changes that I suggest we adopt if we’re adopting this ordinance. 9 10 Director Lait: So, we can… I think those are enough… you don’t need to include that in a 11 motion. We’ve captured your comments (interrupted) 12 13 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah, usually we just say and the changes to the ordinance staff 14 decides upon, rather than list them. Agonize really… 15 16 Chair Summa: Thank you, Commissioner Hechtman, for that. Okay. 17 18 Commissioner Hechtman: Should we pull up the language on the motion of focus… that list on 19 the menu for tonight? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Yes. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: So we can see how to wordsmith the motion on the focus area. 4 5 Chair Summa: Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. 6 7 Vice Chair Chang: So I would like to make another motion. 8 9 MOTION #2 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: We’ve already talked about one piece, the twenty foot setback, I have a 12 second motion that I would to make regarding the El Camino Focus area and that would be to … 13 That the height transitions on Table 3, Packet Page 80 for the El Camino Real Focus area, 14 changes mentions of R-1 to load density housing, residential low density housing, because we 15 should make this apply too, universally, like, to R-1, R-2, or RMD. And, that we change seventy-16 five feet to one-hundred-feet. 17 18 Director Lait: Just to clarify, low density residential housing districts. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: Yes, districts, thank you. 1 2 SECOND 3 4 Chair Summa: I will second. Would you like to speak to your motion? 5 6 Vice Chair Chang: I don’t think I need to speak to my motion, I already spoke to it before. 7 8 Director Lait: Okay, and Ms. French is telling me that R-1 is not included in residential low 9 density housing. So, would you like to include single family zoning? 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: Yes please. Thank you. Thank you staff, I’m glad you’re keeping us on task and 12 on target, and mind reading. 13 14 Chair Summa: I don’t see any lights, so, we can go to a vote on that one. 15 16 VOTE FOR MOTION #2 17 18 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 1 2 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa. 3 4 Chair Summa: Yes. 5 6 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl? 7 8 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes. 9 10 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 11 12 Commissioner Hechtman: No. 13 14 Ms. Dao: Vice-Chair Chang? 15 16 Vice-Chair Chang: Yes. 17 18 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Akin: Yes. 1 2 Ms. Dao: Motion carries 5-1-1 (Commissioner Hechtman No, Commissioner Lu Abstain). 3 4 MOTION #2 PASSED 5 (Akin, Chang, Hechtman, Summa, Reckdahl, Templeton) -1 (Hechtman 5 No) -1 (Lu Absent) 6 Commission Action: Motion by Chang, seconded by Summa. Pass 5-1-1 7 8 Chair Summa: Thank you, would anyone like to speak to their no vote? 9 10 Commissioner Hechtman: Sure, just very briefly, I think what’s happened here is we have 11 approved what are essentially two constraints to this new concept that we haven’t even 12 approved yet, and so we’re already chipping away, making it potentially less attractive to 13 someone who has other options, specifically State Bonus Law. And, we’re doing it on the fly 14 without understanding, you know, how much of a risk that is or is not, so that’s why I voted no. 15 16 Chair Summa: Thank you for that. Okay. Any other discussion on this topic. 17 18 Commissioner Reckdahl: Well, I wanted to talk about that … both the Stanford… on Table 3, we 19 have the two properties, the Pastor Drive is the biggest concern, but also, the focus area also 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. applies about property tax, and so we are upzoning, giving a lot of additional building capability, 1 which will house a lot of children, potentially, and we have to protect PAUSD. 2 3 Vice Chair Chang: So are you talking specifically about the El Camino Real zone here? 4 5 Commissioner Reckdahl: Both of them. 6 7 Vice Chair Chang: Yes. Okay, so this is … has to do with El Camino Real, because the Chair was 8 asking me. 9 10 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes, and to take advantage of this either they property tax, or pay 11 equivalent fees to make up for that. To mitigate for the impacts of their having both on PAUSD 12 and on Foot Hill. 13 14 Vice Chair Chang: So, am I understanding you correctly that even though the concern is specific 15 to Pasteur because Stanford has said that right now that they want to use specifically Pasteur 16 for affiliate housing that in reality, any other parcel anywhere, including the El Camino Focus 17 area, could eventually become something because some of them are Stanford owned 18 properties (crosstalk) 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Reckdahl: There’s nothing binding on that. 1 2 Vice Chair Chang: Correct. 3 4 Commissioner Reckdahl: And if they have no intention of doing that, it doesn’t affect them 5 because they’re paying property tax. 6 7 Vice Chair Chang: Right, So it just protects us if… because these are particularly high density … 8 these could be very high density housing developments that then have an outsized impact if 9 there are many PAUSD students living in these, you’re suggesting that we should try and extend 10 any protections for property tax to any sta… to the El Camino Real zone. Because even if they 11 don’t own it right now, they could buy a parcel and then turn it … Okay. 12 13 Commissioner Reckdahl: And that’s a five million dollar impact at PAUSD. 14 15 Vice Chair Chang: Understood. I’m just trying to clarify. Do you have a motion that you… 16 17 Commissioner Reckdahl: I’m not sure the right place to put this, I would think in …. Either … it 18 think in … maybe on Packet Page 76. When they talk about the development standards and say 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. take advantage of these development standards, so you’d put a number 7 there. The properties 1 must pay full property tax, or make equivalent payments. 2 3 Vice Chair Chang: Is there a way that we can ask for legal advice on this, as to how to best 4 proceed, because maybe we can just say, the jest of what we want and have staff think about 5 the best way to implement it. 6 7 Commissioner Reckdahl: I’m happy to do that. 8 9 Mr. Yang: Yeah, I think if you wanted to just make the motion that way for staff to research and 10 implement a method to … Implement these sites. 11 12 MOTION #3 13 14 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yeah, Okay… So I will make a motion that staff research how to 15 protect PAUSD… let me make it more general, Protect the potential loss of property tax should 16 the property become affiliate housing. 17 18 SECOND 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: Second. 1 2 Chair Summa: Would you like to speak to your motion? 3 4 Commissioner Reckdahl: I mean, we’re not penalizing them, we just want to be on an even 5 playing field. If anyone else bought this and housed whoever, they pay property tax. And 6 whether it’s affiliates or not affiliates, it should be, they have the same impact on PAUSD and 7 we should assure that. 8 9 Chair Summa: Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang do you want to speak to your second? 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: No, I think Commissioner Reckdahl covered it. 12 13 Chair Summa: Commissioner Templeton. 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you, I was wondering if it might be phrased better to say that 16 properties, residential properties built in this zone need to provide funding for school services, 17 either through property tax or another means. Like say it positively, I felt a little uncomfortable 18 with the protecting… like we’re not trying to protect the school district, we’re trying to make 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. sure the kids who attend the school district are funding it, because that’s what is needed to 1 have a school district experience. 2 3 Commissioner Reckdahl: It’s just not PAUSD, there’s Cotee education that gets funded by this, 4 Deanza gets funded by this, there’s a lot of educational functions there that are paid by the 5 property tax. So, I would just say let’s keep it generic and say that have staff research how to 6 protect us. It doesn’t change what staff is going to do. If you have a more punchy way of saying 7 it, go for it. 8 9 MOTION #3 Amendment 10 11 Commissioner Templeton: Yeah, I think saying funding for XYZ services… educational services 12 or whatever, should be provided whether through property taxes or a separate funding 13 mechanism. 14 15 Commissioner Reckdahl: I’d accept that, yeah. 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: I accept that too. 18 19 Chair Summa: Commissioner Hechtman. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: So, this motion would apply then to the city parking lots where 2 we’re planning housing also, because those are tax free, is that right? So, the developer of … I 3 think that’s all designed for very low and low housing; they would have to pay the property tax 4 for that tax free property? 5 6 Commissioner Reckdahl: This doesn’t apply to BMR housing. 7 8 Commissioner Hechtman: Is that part of the motion? 9 10 Commissioner Reckdahl: This applies, this is very focused for Table 3 that’s in this… 11 12 Commissioner Hechtman: So, it only applies, well okay, so it only applies to the property in the 13 second column and the focus area, although it could be expanded as Vice Chair Chang pointed 14 out, anywhere else in the City. This zoning by precedence concept. So, to the extent that they 15 expand this focus area, that would go along with it. 16 17 Commissioner Reckdahl: It would go along with that. 18 19 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, alright. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Reckdahl: But that’s a good point. 2 3 Commissioner Templeton: Do we need language that says for developments anticipated to 4 impact … 5 6 Chair Summa: I think that this motion is just asking staff to look at this and I think that’s a 7 response to Council’s concern and also specifically about the Pasteur site, as it is in Palo Alto, 8 and it’s a very large policy question, so I think we’re echoing the concern of the Council and 9 saying back to them, yeah, this was a concern for us as well, because it really affects, 10 potentially, our school system. 11 12 Commissioner Reckdahl: The only caveat is I think it should be market rate as opposed to 13 saying any residential, because we don’t charge property tax on BMR. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: I’m not going to be supporting the motion with a couple of reasons 16 why. Number one, for every dollar that you pay of property tax, a very small part of that goes to 17 the school district. 18 19 Commissioner Reckdahl: I know. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: The largest share goes to the county… I believe that’s right. 2 3 Commissioner Reckdahl: That’s not right. It’s 46% goes to PAUSD. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: Of our county property taxes? 6 7 Commissioner Reckdahl: And that… in Palo Alto you pay 46%, it goes to PAUSD… 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Is that the countywide number or is that a special Palo Alto city tax? 10 11 Commissioner Reckdahl: That is the Palo Alto… when you pay… if you’re a resident of Palo Alto, 12 and you pay your property tax at the county, 46% of that comes back to PAUSD. 13 14 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, but your motion isn’t limited to that 46% 15 16 Commissioner Reckdahl: And then you have other fundings, there’s Cotee Education, there’s 17 Foot Hill Deanza that comes out of that, and so all in all, education is on the order of 70% of the 18 property tax that you pay. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: But you’re saying that a 100%, your motion is. Your motion isn’t 1 limited to the 70%, if that figure is correct, of the property tax actually going to education. 2 3 Commissioner Reckdahl: Let’s have staff figure it out, ideally, I mean all those things that 4 property tax whether it’s paving the streets or other city services or county services, there’s … 5 those residents are impacting whether they are affiliates or not. So yes, ideally the whole 6 property tax would be paid. 7 8 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay, that’s the intent of the motion, I wanted to clarify that. 9 Alright, and so… 10 11 Commissioner Reckdahl: The biggest impact is PAUSD because it would be such an enormous 12 part of their budget. Other entities are not nearly as effected. But still. 13 14 Commissioner Hechtman: Alright, so, Once upon a time, the way things used to work, a 15 developer would apply for a development in the city and the school district would show up and 16 say you know, it’s… their taxes aren’t enough to cover … our costs are greater and cities often in 17 that situation said developer go satisfy the school district, and until you do, we’re not going to 18 approve your project. And so, there were deals made. At some point the State stepped in and 19 intervened and said no, we’re not going to have this, we’re going to have a set way to fund 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. public schools and so I’m interested to see what our Council will come up with if this can be 1 legally done, but I don’t want to prejudge that by supporting the motion. 2 3 Chair Summa: Any other comments? 4 5 Director Lait: Chair, just one. There’s been some talk about Pasteur site and I just wanted to 6 remind the commission that we’re just talking about the Housing Focus on El Camino right now, 7 so this motion would apply to just the El Camino Real property. 8 9 Chair Summa: That’s fine because we want to invite Commissioner Lu back in anyway, to talk 10 about the Pasteur site. Okay. With that clarification are we ready to vote? Thank you, Ms. Dao. 11 12 VOTE MOTION # 3 (Amended) 13 14 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa 15 16 Chair Summa: Yes 17 18 Ms. Dao: Vice Chair Chang 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: Yes 1 2 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin 3 4 Commissioner Akin: Yes 5 6 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman 7 8 Commissioner Hechtman: No 9 10 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl 11 12 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes 13 14 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: Yes 17 18 Ms. Dao: Motion carries 5-1-1 (Commissioner Hechtman No, Commissioner Lu Absent). 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. MOTION PASSED 5 (Akin, Chang, Hechtman, Summa, Reckdahl, Templeton) -1 (Hechtman No) -1 1 (Lu Absent) 2 Commission Action: Motion by Reckdahl, seconded by Chang. Pass 5-1-1 3 4 Chair Summa: Okay, thank you for that, I think that concludes this portion and we can invite… 5 6 [Several People off Microphone]: I think we need a motion 7 8 Chair Summa: We have to make the main motion. Okay. I was wondering if we had to do that. 9 Okay. Would anyone like to make the overriding motion? 10 11 MOTION # 4 12 13 Vice Chair Chang: I move that we approve staff’s recommendation for the El Camino Real Focus 14 Area, including the previous motions that we’ve made already. 15 16 Chair Summa: Is that sufficient for staff? Okay, second… Anyone? 17 18 SECOND 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Reckdahl: Second. 1 2 Chair Summa: Okay, second. Would you like to speak to your first? 3 4 Vice Chair Chang: No, I think we’ve discussed (interrupted) 5 6 Chair Summa: Would you like to speak to your second? 7 8 Commissioner Reckdahl: No 9 10 Chair Summa: Any other comments? Okay if you could please call the vote. 11 12 VOTE MOTION # 4 13 14 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman 15 16 Commissioner Hechtman: Yes 17 18 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes 1 2 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: No 5 6 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa 7 8 Chair Summa: Yes 9 10 Ms. Dao: Vice Chair Chang 11 12 Vice Chair Chang: Yes 13 14 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin 15 16 Commissioner Akin: Yes 17 18 Ms. Dao: Motion carries 5-1-1 (Commissioner Templeton No, Commissioner Lu Absent). 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. MOTION PASSED 5 (Akin, Chang, Hechtman, Summa, Reckdahl, Hechtman) -1 (Templeton No) -1 1 (Lu Absent) 2 Commission Action: Motion by Chang, seconded by Reckdahl. Pass 5-1-1 3 4 Chair Summa: Thank you very much, we’ll pause for 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: I’d like to speak to my no vote 7 8 Chair Summa: Ah, so sorry. Would you like to speak to your no vote? 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you very much I’ll be quick. My objection to this is … as many 11 of our commissioners have mentioned tonight, not well thought out, not ready for prime time 12 and has a lot of risks to it. I’m not yet convinced that the risks are insignificant and so I just 13 wanted to register my objection. Thank you. 14 15 Chair Summa: Thank you very much for that. I think we’re ready to invite Commissioner Lu 16 back in. So, I don’t know … he’s on the way. Welcome back. So. We have the following issues I 17 suggest we take them in this order. The Comp Plan Amendments first, so, any questions or 18 comments or motions? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. MOTION # 5 1 2 Vice Chair Chang: I move that we recommend the staff changes to the Comprehensive Plan to 3 City Council for adoption. 4 5 SECOND 6 7 Commissioner Akin: Second. 8 9 Chair Summa: Okay would you… 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: They’re located in the packet as Attachment A. 12 13 Chair Summa: They did not change since the last time except that Ms. Eisberg said that there 14 would have to be a couple of additional changes, and I’m assuming those will go to Council and 15 we won’t see those. So… Any comments before the vote? 16 17 Director Lait: So just noting that this motion incorporates those comments that were made by 18 Ms. Eisberg about the adjustments. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Thank you for that. Okay, we can vote on this now Ms. Dao. 1 2 VOTE MOTION # 5 3 4 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin 5 6 Commissioner Akin: Yes 7 8 Ms. Dao: Vice Chair Chang 9 10 Vice Chair Chang: Yes 11 12 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman 13 14 Commissioner Hechtman: Yes 15 16 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Lu 17 18 Commissioner Lu: Yes 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl 1 2 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes 3 4 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa 5 6 Chair Summa: Yes 7 8 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Yes 11 12 Ms. Dao: Motion carries 7-0-0. 13 14 MOTION PASSED 7 (Akin, Chang, Hechtman, Summa, Reckdahl, Hechtman, Templeton, Lu) -0-0 15 Commission Action: Motion by Chang, seconded by Aikin. Pass 7-0-0 16 17 Chair Summa: Thank you very much. The next topic for this evening are Amendments to the 18 Municipal Code Title 18 excluding 18.14. So I will take comments questions or motions. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. MOTION # 6 1 2 Vice Chair Chang: I move that we recommend that Council adopt the staff recommendation for 3 the changes to Title 18, excluding 18.14 which begin on Packet Page 84, yes 84. 4 5 Chair Summa: Do I have a second? 6 7 SECOND 8 9 Commissioner Akin: Second. 10 11 Chair Summa: Would you like to speak to your first? 12 13 Vice Chair Chang: Most of these changes, well all of these changes essentially, just roll the 14 changes that are in 18.14 through to the rest of Title 18, so it’s necessary to make all of these 15 sort of administrative changes in order to put 18.14 into effect. 16 17 Chair Summa: Thank you for that, would you like to speak to your second? 18 19 Commissioner Akin: No, I think that covers it. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Okay, any other questions or comments? 2 3 Commissioner Templeton: Can I ask a quick clarifying question? 4 5 Chair Summa: Yes. 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: I see that this has that GM ROLM stuff that we talked about last 8 time, so this would be adding that in? Or has that already… well, it’s a question for staff. Guys? 9 Does this add stuff about the GM ROLM stuff that we talked about last time? I know I’m saying 10 the word stuff, it’s really late. But, remember last time when we were presented with building 11 high rises on … right beside the highway… and it’s in these charts and this … 12 13 Vice Chair Chang: So my understanding is we’re still going to discuss those charts, right now 14 we’re just talking about everything outside of 18.14. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: That’s what I’m trying to figure out, because it’s on those pages. 17 18 Vice Chair Chang: No, sorry, if it wasn’t clear, I may have said the wrong pages, but it starts on 19 page 84. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: Yeah, but on page 87, 88, it’s all in there. I just want to make sure 2 that I understand what specifically is being voted on. Because I don’t like those, and I think 3 there’s a mistake and I know I’m alone. But it’s okay. 4 5 Vice Chair Chang: Oh, no, I think I agree with you actually. Maybe we’re taking this a little bit 6 out of order, because I’m hoping that … we’re also going to go back and discuss other pieces of 7 18.14. So, while these changes refer to 18.14, we are still going to potentially make changes to 8 18.14. We still have to discuss Pasteur, and we still have to discuss the GM ROLM, things that 9 we discussed at the last PTC meeting, that are within those tables, that are within 18.14, but all 10 the changes that I’m proposing that we recommend to Council for adoption now are things that 11 refer to 18.14, so if we change 18.14 itself, we should be covered. Does that sound right staff? 12 13 Director Lait: Yeah. I believe that’s correct and this motion would pick up on Packet Page 85, 14 Section III and continue to the end, and while there is some reference to ROLM and GM, that’s 15 for permitted uses, not the development standards. 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: Thanks for that clarification. 18 19 Chair Summa: Commissioner Hechtman 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: So I actually had a question that could have come before the motion, 2 but I think we can still cover it. It’s on Packet page 28, but I think it relates to Table 2 on Packet 3 Page 86. So, it’s this concept of minimum density standards, which is something we talked 4 about last time we were together, and I just kind of wanted to get my head around it. So, it says 5 that residential densities for townhouses can vary from 10 to 40 – dwelling units per acre (DUA) 6 and that discussion, as I remember it, was to you know, encourage property owners to build 7 more densely than townhouses. So, if townhouses can vary from ten to forty DUA but the draft 8 ordinance takes a modest approach raising the floor to at least twenty DUA, so, which seems 9 like, well, does that discourage… if we set the floor at twenty does that discourage townhomes? 10 And if it does, how? I just wanted to understand that. 11 12 Director Lait: Yeah, no, thank you for flagging that. That’s our concern as well and if this an 13 area where we are expecting higher density, setting too low a minimum density standard may 14 result in a housing product that we’re not anticipating so, thank you for flagging that and that 15 would be… we would appreciate the Commission’s discussion on that. 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: Yeah, thanks for flagging that. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: So, in fact one of Ms. Eisberg’s slides showed what a 39 DUA looked 1 like, compared to a 15 DUA, so, I did ask the question but I don’t have the answer for what the 2 right DUA is, so I would invite my fellow Commissioners to you know, talk about it if 3 townhomes can be at 40 DUA, is that the floor that’s desirable? And does that apply in RM 20 4 and 30? It already applies in RM 40. And then… RM 20 is RM 20 because it’s twenty DUA. So, 5 are we talking about collapsing everything at RM 40? Alright. Now I’ve created a mess, I’ll let 6 other people weigh in on it. 7 8 Chair Summa: Commissioner Lu. [Commissioner Lu off microphone] Okay. Comments on 9 Commissioner Hechtman’s concerns? 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: So, I’m not sure … this is not a problem I feel like we have the knowledge to 12 solve tonight. The thought of collapsing everything into RM 40 sounds like a really big decision 13 so that doesn’t sound good to me because that’s not what our Housing Element thus far has 14 said, and I’m not sure people realize that was something that we would even be considering 15 tonight so that doesn’t sound good, but I do second Commissioner Hechtman’s concern about 16 is twenty enough. But, I don’t know what is enough and I would need guidance from staff. 17 18 Commissioner Templeton: Is it sufficient enough for us to just flag that for staff and follow-up? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Director Lait: Yeah, follow up as in on our way to Council, yep. Thank you. Yeah, I don’t know 1 that we had a precise number either, which is why we punted it to you. So we’ll continue to 2 refine it and see if we can’t come up with a number. 3 4 Vice Chair Chang: Do you want us to have some more discussion on it? We’ve only heard from a 5 few of us. 6 7 Director Lait: I think we understand, you know, so… we’re… you know… we’re expecting 8 apartment buildings in this area and if we want apartment buildings that support a higher 9 density design and we have our density too low and twenty may be too low; then we may get 10 townhomes. Which means sites that we’re predicting to have x number of units get developed 11 with a fraction of that and then we get to our buffer question. So, yeah, I think that we can… I 12 think there’s some additional staff work that we can do, if I’m seeing some shaking heads that 13 there’s a general understanding of that concept and a desire to address that. 14 15 Chair Summa: It seems to me like we don’t have the information to make a motion about this, 16 and what we should really do is give you direction to refine the idea as needed… 17 18 Vice Chair Chang: But you don’t need a motion for that direction. Right. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Director Lait: I think just … you know.. when we write to the Council and their report, we’ll 1 note that we had this … we flagged this issue and staff’s done some additional work. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: I actually think we could make a motion that recommends this 4 ordinance and direct staff to look at addressing the minimum density requirement (interrupted) 5 6 Chair Summa: That’s fine… why don’t you make a motion then because you’re ready to… you 7 just made one. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Well, let me see… if other people have comments, I’m happy to 10 make a motion once any one (interrupted) 11 12 Vice Chair Chang: We have a motion on the table I think right now, if I’m tracking correctly, and 13 so, we could amend it, or I could withdraw it and let Commissioner Hechtman (interrupted) 14 15 Chair Summa: Why don’t you just restate your motion. 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: Or have staff restate the motion because I’m too tired. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Director Lait: So the motion is to move the staff recommendation with respect to the Title 18 1 Amendments starting on Section III and going for the balance of the Ordinance, excluding 2 18.14. And I think you can have that motion, or you can have another motion to second that if 3 you want. 4 5 Commissioner Hechtman: What if I just tag onto it. 6 7 Vice Chair Chang: So then let’s add on to that motion because I’d like to amend the motion, tag 8 onto it, to have … to also have… to also recommend that staff take a look at the minimum 9 density numbers throughout the … 10 11 Commissioner Hechtman: It’s really in Table 2, 12 13 Vice Chair Chang: Throughout Title 18.14. 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: Right now this motion is specific to (interrupted) 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, throughout Page 85 and on 18 19 Commissioner Hechtman: to, and I would say to 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Vice Chair Chang: to encourage 1 2 Commissioner Hechtman: Encourage development densities greater than townhomes. 3 4 Vice Chair Chang: Yes, to encourage development densities greater than townhomes. Did you 5 get that staff? 6 7 Director Lait: Yeah but I have a question. 8 9 Vice Chair Chang: Yes. 10 11 Director Lait: The way I heard that it went beyond ROLM and GM, is that your intent? 12 13 Commissioner Hechtman: I’m looking on Packet Page 86, which is in this back part that we’re 14 dealing with now and if you look at Table 2, it’s RM, RM 30, RM 20, 30, and 40 right, and isn’t 15 that part of the issue with these (interrupted) 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: No, because this… Table 2 is done … if you look at the line, it says that Except 18 sites designated… so right above Table 2, there’s an underline… 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Oh.. that’s in… Oh. Okay. So then, do we wait? Is this issue … this 1 issue doesn’t.. the concern I have only applies in 18.14? 2 3 Director Lait: I think so. 4 5 Vice Chair Chang: I think so, but I would like Albert… Mr. Yang to weigh in. 6 7 Mr. Yang: That’s my understanding as well, is that the relevant location is 18.14. 8 9 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Then we don’t need to bring (interrupted) 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: Okay, so then we don’t need to amend the motion. 12 13 Commissioner Hechtman: Right. 14 15 Vice Chair Chang: The motion on the table, is what… the original motion which is to adopt the 16 staff recommendation for Title 18 starting at Section III. 17 18 Chair Summa: Commissioner Templeton. Okay. Commissioner Lu. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Lu: Yeah, I’ll just make my comment from earlier. In the GM zone we’re saying 1 that there can be no residential or mixed use development outside of the designated sites, 2 which we’ll cover in 18.14. And I understand that. It think I have generally made comments 3 supporting extending the number of opportunity sites or some zoning outside of opportunity 4 sites, I just want to comment that there are substantial parts of the GM zone that would 5 therefore be closed off and our plans of building a real neighborhood are limited when large 6 chunks of warehouses can’t be further redeveloped. I think in the ROLM zone there’s more 7 flexibility here. I’m not sure how much room there really is to push here. I would maybe… I 8 would advance a motion and instead maybe just pick my fights in 18.14. 9 10 Chair Summa: I would remind you that also we have a new priority development area that 11 expands on the area that we’re talking about. So, there’s opportunity in that too. 12 13 Commissioner Lu: Yeah, understand that it will definitely be revisited, I understand there are 14 potentially larger developments that might come with zoning changes as well, but quantify the 15 spirit of not limiting ourselves, and thinking too narrowly. 16 17 Chair Summa: Thank you for flagging that spirit. Commissioner Reckdahl Your microphone is 18 on. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Reckdahl: So, outside of the opportunity zone, in GM, wouldn’t that be on 1 Packet page 87? 2 3 Director Lait: So, these are permitted uses. 4 5 Commissioner Reckdahl: And so, I thought family housing is permitted in GM zone, outside of 6 opportunity sites. So whether it’s an opportunity site or not, you still can do multiple family 7 housing. Back to Page 87. 8 9 Commissioner Lu: I’m looking at Packet Page 89, at the very bottom, .7, all residential 10 development is prohibited except for the HE opportunity sites. Is there a contradiction there? 11 12 Commissioner Reckdahl: I think you’re right. 13 14 Commissioner Lu: Was there …. 15 16 Ms. Eisberg: I think I need to clarify that in the Focus area it is also permitted. 17 18 Chair Summa: Sorry Ms. Eisberg, you’re break up a little, could you repeat that. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Eisberg: [TIMESTAMP 5.24 Video Breaking UP] 1 2 Chair Summa: Was anybody able to understand that? 3 4 Mr. Yang: No, she was saying that this was an error in the Ordinance and we need to update 5 the bottom of Packet Page 89 and the bottom of Packet Page 90 to clarify that it’s not just 6 opportunity sites, it’s also sites within the Focus Area. 7 8 Commissioner Lu: Okay, that’s great, I totally take my comment back. 9 10 Ms. Eisberg: Okay thank you and I hope I just fixed by microphone (Crosstalk) 11 12 Chair Summa: Thank you for bringing that up and clarifying it. Glad you caught an error. Okay, 13 do I have any other comments? Okay so we need to vote please. 14 15 VOTE MOTION # 6 16 17 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 18 19 Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa? 2 3 Chair Summa: Yes. 4 5 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl? 6 7 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes. 8 9 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Lu? 10 11 Commissioner Lu: Yes. 12 13 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 14 15 Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 16 17 Ms. Dao: Vice-Chair Chang? 18 19 Vice-Chair Chang: Yes. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin? 2 3 Commissioner Akin: Yes. 4 5 Ms. Dao: Motion carries 7-0-0. 6 7 MOTION PASSED 7 (Akin, Chang, Lu, Hechtman, Summa, Reckdahl, Templeton) -0 -0 8 Commission Action: Motion by Chang, seconded by Akin. Pass 7-0-0 9 10 Chair Summa: Thank you very much. Okay. Alright. Yes, I believe what’s left is… we just did 11 that, this is all we have left. Okay. Next is the Pasteur sight, which is a Stanford affiliated site. 12 Any comments, questions… Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. Is your light on? No. 13 Commissioner Reckdahl maybe? 14 15 Commissioner Reckdahl: There are two concerns here, one is whether it is affiliate housing or 16 whether it’s open to the general public and the second issue is the property tax. To a certain 17 extent, housing is fungible and so anything that affiliates take up on compass or near campus 18 reduces pressure elsewhere. So, I don’t have that much of a problem with it being affiliate 19 housing. I just want to ensure that the education systems aren’t impacted. So, I would have the 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. same exact motion as we had before, but then I don’t feel the need to add anything about 1 affiliate housing. I don’t know if other people have concerns or not. 2 3 Chair Summa: Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. 4 5 Vice Chair Chang: So, I also agree that the housing is fungible, so, I’m not against the housing. I 6 want that housing, it doesn’t matter if it’s on campus or off campus. If it’s not built on campus, 7 then Stanford affiliates will need to use off campus housing. And we have so many Stanford 8 affiliates right now who live off campus already, so if there’s more opportunities for them to 9 live on campus, that’s fantastic. My concern with this is solely with respect to the revenue. The 10 property tax and parcel tax revenue, and the implications for services for the rest of Palo Alto 11 and for the rest of the county. So, I would support the same motion we made earlier regarding 12 the El Camino sites, which is to have staff investigate options such that we can ensure that our 13 city and county services remain funded by property tax or some dollars, somehow. 14 15 Chair Summa: Commissioner Akin 16 17 Commissioner Akin: Well, I’m less convinced that housing is so fungible but I’m not going to 18 make a point of it because the Housing Element very clearly said, from very early on, that this 19 was going to be affiliate housing. So, I don’t see any reason to change that. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner Lu. 2 3 Commissioner Lu: Yeah, I’ll give some high level thoughts. I am also totally fine with affiliate 4 housing. I’m glad that most of it will be relatively affordable to at least some of the affiliates. 5 And also point out that there are 108 units already on well tread which is restricted to affiliate 6 housing, so, the property tax issues will get worse, but already a significant and non-trivial 7 issue. I have mixed thoughts about a couple of things. I find the existing apartment complex 8 actually really nice. It’s 108 units, it’s well located, I’m disappointed at the prospect of tearing 9 down a perfectly good multifamily unit or complex, when they’re potentially more alternatives 10 that I would still encourage Stanford to look into. I’m also happy that the minimum parking is .5 11 spaces per unit, I expect most people will bike or have Stanford permits for other parking lots. 12 And I think just minimizing parking in any development there, and trying to shift parking into 13 the many surface lots and built up lots and underground lots that are right next to the complex 14 would be ideal and if we can get below .5 spaces per unit, I would be thrilled with that. My 15 biggest concern, like everyone else, is the taxes and the property taxes. I think staff has plenty 16 of direction on doing research here. I think in the scope of our research on property taxes on 17 Stanford sites and the impact on education, I would appreciate an update holistically on the 18 thousands of units that Stanford already has and I think the thousands of units that Stanford 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. plans to add on campus itself and how those students are currently handled in our school 1 system. 2 3 Chair Summa: Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. 4 5 Vice Chair Chang: So, it’s been a perpetual issue and usually there’s a general use permit 6 negotiation in which Stanford will compensate the district, but unfortunately these sites are 7 outside of that. And so, it’s a significant impact. So usually, the district and Stanford work pretty 8 closely to mitigate impacts, as it is though, if I understand it correctly, from prior information … 9 from like the last general use permit battle, Stanford…. Students… the district is not funded as 10 well necessarily for students on Stanford property. But historically, for example, like when there 11 was housing built… Stanford helped fund the building of Nixon elementary, as well as Escondido 12 Elementary. And so there has been a historical agreement, but the problem is that this process 13 is a little bit outside of that. 14 15 Chair Summa: Okay. Any more discussion. Commissioner Hechtman. 16 17 Commissioner Hechtman: I’m sorry, has there been a motion yet? I know Keith announced his 18 intention (crosstalk), okay… (interrupted) 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Reckdahl: What I wanted to clarify is that if other people had heartburn about 1 affiliate housing or not, then that would change the motion. 2 3 Commissioner Hechtman: Then let me ask, are you going to make a discreet motion on this tax 4 issue? Like we did last time. 5 6 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yeah. Just like last time. 7 8 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. 9 10 Commissioner Reckdahl: Then do it. 11 12 MOTION # 7 13 14 Commissioner Reckdahl: Same motion as last time. Direct staff to determine our options for 15 protecting the county and city’s services. 16 17 SECOND 18 19 Vice Chair Chang: Second. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: Thank you would anyone like to speak to their first or second? Any other 2 comments? Commissioner Hechtman. 3 4 Commissioner Hechtman: So, earlier tonight with the representative from Stanford spoke, she 5 made pretty clear that this was going to be affiliate housing and we don’t seem to have an issue 6 with that, but my read of what she said is, if you mandate something else, we’re just not 7 building. And so, I’m wondering if, in that scenario, if they declare they’re not building, is that 8 still an opportunity site. And I have sort of the same concern about this tax issue. I have no idea 9 what the tax ramifications of this motion are on Stanford, or how it might change their analysis 10 of the viability of housing that they build to provide subsidized housing to their affiliates. And so 11 I’m concerned we… unintended consequences. We dictate this thing and Stanford says fine, it’s 12 going to stay 108 units and a nice field. And then do we have a buffer problem. So I’m really 13 curious about what happens if someone declares they are not building under those 14 circumstances. 15 16 Director Lait: Yeah, that creates a challenge. And if the facts stay as you’ve described, then we 17 would probably need to come up with another 200 plus units elsewhere in the city. 18 19 Commissioner Hechtman: Okay. Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Templeton: Can we just clarify that the motion doesn’t dictate anything. The 2 motion asked staff to look into what would work. So if your objection is that we’re dictating 3 something that won’t work, don’t worry, we’re not going to do anything that’s not going to 4 work. 5 6 Commissioner Hechtman: My understanding of the motion is what can we legally do, not 7 what’s okay with Stanford, and those are two different questions. 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: Well, that’s what we’re supposed to do. We’re protecting the City. 10 So, that’s my… not directed at you, but that’s my (interrupted) 11 12 Commissioner Hechtman: That’s what I’m doing too. I’m protecting the City against… I’m trying 13 to find out if we need to protect the City against the possibility that we’re going to take an 14 action here, not intending to drop us below the threshold in doing that. 15 16 Chair Summa: If I may, and I appreciate both points of few, but if I may, I think that’s why 17 Commissioner Reckdahl made the motion the way he did because we realize that this was 18 brought up by Council, the community is concerned about it, whether they understand it fully 19 or not, you know, but you know, they understand it fully from the point of view of protecting 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the school system for our children. So, I think what we’re saying to the staff.. Look at this 1 because the Council is concerned, we’re concerned, the community is concerned, but we can’t 2 evaluate the trade off right now tonight. So, we’re counting on staff, we’re throwing it back to 3 staff, and with the understanding that they will come up with a very thoughtful 4 recommendation to Council. Commissioner Templeton. 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: That’s also my understanding of this motion. My only thought here 7 is, we once again said protect in the motion, I think we need to say fund. 8 9 Commissioner Reckdahl: Same as last time. 10 11 Chair Summa: Okay. That being said, are we ready to vote. Okay. Ms. Dao. 12 13 VOTE 14 15 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Lu? 16 17 18 Commissioner Lu: Yes. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl? 1 2 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes. 3 4 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa? 5 6 Chair Summa: Yes. 7 8 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 11 12 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin? 13 14 Commissioner Akin: Yes. 15 16 Ms. Dao: Vice-Chair Chang? 17 18 Vice-Chair Chang: Yes. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 1 2 Commissioner Hechtman: No. 3 4 Ms. Dao: Motion carries 6-1-0. 5 6 MOTION PASSED 6 (Akin, Chang, Lu, , Summa, Reckdahl, Templeton) – 1 (Hechtman, No) -0 7 Commission Action: Motion by Reckdahl, seconded by Chang. Pass 7-0-0 8 9 Chair Summa: Thank you very much, I think we have one item left which is GM ROLM Focus 10 Area. So, who would like to start us off with comments? 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: I can start. I don’t know if I’m just telling you how I feel about the 13 whole thing or if there’s a specific part you want me to address. I will tell you this, after our 14 discussion at our last meeting, I went and drove a very good length of Highway 101 from the 15 City … from San Francisco all the way to San Jose and we had some remarks on our Commission 16 like ‘oh, we could build build build very very high here, it would be great’. And, I was concerned 17 about that and I noticed that there aren’t a lot of very tall buildings along 101 on this stretch. I 18 don’t know why, I can only speculate it’s the reasons that we were concerned about before, 19 some geological reasons, and some migratory reasons, and location near a highway reasons, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. but I think we’re overestimating what we’re going to be able to realistically pull off in this area 1 and I am still concerned about it so I’m not comfortable with how it’s played out. Also, I noticed 2 in the deck that there was a slide directly addressing my concerns about two different Palo 3 Alto’s and I wanted to just note that the slide just completely missed the point of that 4 comment. The comment is not Do we have buildings of certain styles in Palo Alto in this area 5 and other areas. That’s really not the point. The point is the way that the neighborhoods are 6 laid out and the way that they’re going to function. The access to services, the access to 7 grocers, the access to schools; all of these things, it’s different and it’s visually different, but it’s 8 also different in other notable and important ways in terms of how life in Palo Alto is. That 9 doesn’t mean it can’t be addressed, but it’s not a superficial comment, and I just wanted to 10 make sure I address that since it was a quote that was used on the slide. Thank you. 11 12 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang. 13 14 Vice Chair Chang: So, I as so often as I do, agree with Commissioner Templeton’s comments 15 about this area. But I have specific concerns about Table, about the parking, about the parking 16 reduction on Table 2, Packet page 77. My concern is, that parking reductions make sense if 17 there are services near that area, and if there’s transportation hear that area. There is not. It’s 18 actually even really crappy to bike in right now. So, I … you know, and the idea would be that 19 this would be this housing… Google’s right across the street, sure, Google is right there and 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. people can … one member of the household might work in Google. It’s very common for one 1 person to work at Google and for the other person to work somewhere entirely different. It 2 could be Milpita’s, it could be Sunnyvale, there’s no way… San Francisco, it would be… there’s 3 no easy way to get there right now. It’s also a really long distance just to shop for your groceries 4 by bike or bus. And very time consuming, and so, from an equity perspective, you know, 5 meaning, I’m concerned that if we don’t have adequate parking, that we’re creating an area 6 that’s livable only for certain people. And that’s a problem, because it’s a large amount of our 7 RHNA allocation and it’s also, you know, a large swath of a section of Palo Alto. And so, when I… 8 our current parking standards would say one space per studio, or one bedroom, and two spaces 9 for everything two bedroom or above. I think it’s fine if we keep it at 1.5 spaces for two 10 bedroom, but realistically if someone is buying a three bedroom, they’re very likely to have two 11 cars in this area because that’s what’s needed. There’s nothing going over there right now. And 12 so that would be something that I would propose. It doesn’t solve the larger issues of services 13 in this area, but at the same time, this is where the sites are and we are in terms of timeline, 14 where we are where we don’t have a plan for you know, more schools, more bike lanes, more 15 everything there… more retail there. And so, I don’t love it, but I think we’re caught between a 16 rock and a hard place and I would support it and I’m trying to figure out how to make this a 17 little bit more palatable for myself. I’m glad to hear about the bird safe glass, I’m not really glad 18 to hear that there could be very high buildings there because … I mean, I’m thinking about the 19 marina and like liquefaction … I have no idea what the geology is there. Maybe staff can 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. address that concern. So, those are my thoughts. I think we need those many hundreds, a 1 thousand plus units though. 2 3 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner Akin. 4 5 Commissioner Akin: Speaking to that, I’m a little less worried than you are because developers 6 know when parking is needed. And they tend to provide it and a good example is what Sobrato 7 is doing with the townhomes over on Portage. Those will get two spaces per townhome 8 because they recognize that for that configuration, they need it for it to be economically viable. 9 And I think that’s likely to happen in GM, and ROLM as well, for the larger units. The smaller 10 ones will stick to one space per unit. But, before I forget, there is one other factor and that is … 11 whether there’s a safety valve that allows the developers to push the burden of parking on to 12 an adjacent area. And… so we need to make sure that’s covered. 13 14 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner Templeton. Is your light on? Okay. 15 16 Commissioner Templeton: Did you want to go first? Is it okay, or did you want to go first? 17 18 Commissioner Reckdahl: I was just going to say, the only remark, talking to Commissioner Akin, 19 is that first one out of the gate, may use up all the street parking in the neighborhood, and then 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. we get stuck and the subsequent developments don’t have as much option. So, they’re not all 1 going to be built simultaneously, so I’m a little worried that the first one may hog up all the 2 spots. 3 4 Commissioner Akin: Yeah, that’s why I was suggesting to Director Lait earlier that you have to 5 be proactive about this, so you need to have residential parking protection lined up and my 6 understanding from previous discussions is that the State will not allow you to arbitrarily draw 7 districts when housing already exists. So, this is something you have to plan out up front. 8 9 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. So, just to address some comments and I’m 10 paraphrasing here but, this is not where The sites for housing are. This is where these sites for 11 housing are, but there are many sites for housing in this city that aren’t this set. So there’s no 12 need to put all 1,900 that are being claimed can be built in this area. They don’t all have to go 13 here, there are other places they can go. However, I doubt, based on things that we have not 14 heard, speculation that hasn’t been addressed or disproved, I doubt that we can get 1,900 15 homes in this space. Because … why… if people can build nine story buildings along 101, in this 16 sandy area, why aren’t they doing it? We don’t have this example up and down the highway. 17 There’s nothing this tall and I’m concerned that even from an equity perspective… is it a good 18 idea to put all of this type of housing right by the highway. Is it safe, are we creating another 19 problem. Not to mention all the wonderful points that Vice Chair Chang brought up. I also want 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. to re-emphasize the migratory area, and it’s not a bird safe glass issue folks, it might be part of 1 the solution, but I don’t think that’s going to get us to nine stories. Or whatever has been 2 proposed to meet this goal. Just throwing that out there, I’m concerned that this is an 3 unrealistic site, and I don’t want us to move forward with it in the current configuration. That 4 said, I understand we have a deadline, I’m not sure once again, that I’m compelled to approve 5 things that don’t make sense based on a deadline provided by another agency. Thank you. 6 7 Chair Summa: I’ll weigh in. I’ve never liked the idea for many of the reasons already stated. I 8 don’t know where people would park in this area, and I worry about convenience and safety 9 when you can’t park near your site. But I also appreciate that developers sort of ask for the 10 parking that they want… that they think they need. It seems like that happens more in sale 11 items. I don’t know how we, at this stage in the game, honestly… I don’t know how we don’t 12 put this in to our Housing Element, this way. And I’m really upset about the western flyway. I 13 mean there was a terrible bird strike in Chicago last week where a thousand birds died. Now 14 that was kind of a flukey incident but it’s for real. But, I think that I’m not as worried about the 15 soil conditions because nobody is going to put a building where it’s… the engineers say hey, 16 that’s going to sink. Well, except maybe in San Francisco. So, I don’t know what to say about 17 this. I don’t particularly like this either, but I don’t know how we … I mean… I don’t know how 18 we take it off the list now. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: I don’t know how we can approve something that would endanger 1 our migratory paths this way. 2 3 Chair Summa: Anyway. I so appreciate that. 4 5 Commissioner Reckdahl: Right now the maximum height in this neighborhood is sixty feet. So, 6 it’s not going to be nine stories, but it’ll be sixty foot (interrupted) 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: YOU are the one who advocated for it to go up to nine stories. 9 10 Commissioner Reckdahl: Well… let’s not get into that. 11 12 Chair Summa: So, I think as much as we might have to have faith when we vote for this, I think 13 we should go ahead and vote for it, so I will appreciating a motion and a second. 14 15 MOTION # 8 16 17 Vice Chair Chang: Well, I would vote for it if we could slightly modify the parking ratios. My 18 hope is that there are a bunch of rentals in this area, and I’m very concerned about it being 19 under parked with lack of services… if you even go to.. there’s a section in East Palo Alto righ by 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Newell there, there is zero parking there. And they have … there’s zero on the street parking, I 1 don’t know where people park. But it’s impossible to park over there, and so I would like to see 2 this go to 1 space for one bed, 1.5 spaces for two bed, and 2 spaces for three plus bedrooms. 3 And then… so I’d like to make a motion that we make that change to Table 2, and then I guess 4 we need… yeah. 5 6 Director Lait: Yeah, thank you Chair. So, to achieve the density set that the Housing Element 7 prescribes for this area, we need to eliminate constraints in our zoning code, that would 8 preclude us from achieving those densities. Parking is one of those constraints. So if you want 9 to provide parking at a higher ratio, there are other development standards that may need to 10 give in order to make it feasible to develop at these densities. Or, we lower the densities. But 11 lowering the densities has an impact on our Housing site inventory. 12 13 Vice Chair Chang: I appreciate that, I just don’t think it’s livable. That’s my concern, so… and I 14 can’t legislate like bussing over there. But I understand your point, Director Lait. We’re caught 15 between a rock and a hard place. I’ll even note (interrupted) 16 17 Commissioner Reckdahl: What were the tradeoffs? You said that other things would have to 18 give if you had more parking, so what could you compensate to make the parking work? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Director Lait: Probably height, but Ms. Eisberg if you want to get cued up for that. I also want 1 to note, I appreciate you know there’s some comments about revisiting the appropriateness of 2 housing at this location, but you know, we also heard from appointed and elected officials who 3 supported this, that zoning was somewhat off limits. We can go high, you know, we can go 4 without parking, and that direction influenced where we are now and the policy that was 5 adopted and the densities that we’re trying to achieve were endorsed as part of the Housing 6 Element. So, the challenge that we have is, how do we now achieve those densities knowing 7 that they were going to be tall buildings, and these are the constraints. Ms. Eisberg do you have 8 other… do you know from our analysis what standards might need to be modified. 9 10 Ms. Eisberg: Sure, so, as Director Lait indicated, the Housing Element talks about specific 11 changes for this area, height increase, lot coverage, FAR, landscape requirement and parking. I 12 think these developments tend not to have that many three plus bedrooms, so in terms of 13 parking the Housing Element says one space per studio, one bed 1.25, 1.5 space for two 14 bedrooms. So, there may be a little bit of an adjustment that could be made on the three 15 bedrooms which tends to be 10 to 15% of a development, and still be okay. But, yes, the issue is 16 on these sites, if you need another level of parking, you could end up at two levels of parking or 17 even three levels of parking and that’s what pushes the height limit up. So it may be that you 18 need, is it another story of development that would be feasible if you ended up adding a layer 19 of parking. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Vice Chair Chang: So, what I heard was that it was possible for the three bedrooms to have 2. 2 So that was my only change to this. So, I would stand by that. Because I do want family housing 3 out there, and that’s like three bedroom. So, it sounds like it’s possible without negative 4 ramifications because the three bedrooms would not be that many units anyway. 5 6 Chair Summa: Commissioner Templeton 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. It’s late and I’m tired and I’m a little punchy, and I’ve 9 already been a little sassy with a few people here. I’m going to try to keep it under control. I 10 acknowledge that Council has been presented with our intention and our recommendation 11 from staff, with the idea that 1,900 homes could be put in this area. I simply don’t think that 12 that’s true. I don’t think that’s true based on the research I did and I haven’t seen refuting 13 evidence and that’s okay for us to disagree, Council has the authority, we’re only a 14 recommending body, and I only can control how I vote. But it’s important to me to reiterate our 15 objections, I know we had registered several objections with staff. I don’t know, based on the 16 presentation, how they were presented to Council, and if they were adequately addressed, 17 that’s not for us to decide, that’s between you and Council, but it’s alright for me to have this 18 opinion and this concern and to raise it again and I feel it’s my duty and obligation to do so, I 19 also understand that Council has to make decisions under the threat of this timeline. And 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. sometimes they might come to a decision that we don’t agree with or that isn’t optimal. Perfect 1 is the only good that my colleague here said, but you know, I also have to live with my 2 recommendations, and I have to go with what I think it best. We’re a recommending body and I 3 think we should recommend according to our conscious. Thank you. 4 5 Chair Summa: Okay. So, I am looking… I do not believe… do you have a motion? Can you okay. 6 Do you have a second? I don’t think you have a second, so maybe you repeat it and look for a 7 second (crosstalk) 8 9 MOTION # 8 (repeated) 10 11 Vice Chair Chang: My motion is to modify Table 2 on Packet Page 77 for the minimum 12 residential parking ratios column and change it where it says … or add to one space per studio 13 for one bedroom, 1.5 spaces for two bedrooms, remove the plus and say two spaces for three 14 bedrooms. Three plus, yes, thank you. 15 16 SECOND 17 18 Commissioner Reckdahl: I’ll second that. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Thank you. Okay. Any discussion or… Commissioner Hechtman. 1 2 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah, I’m just… I understand the intent of the motion, do you have 3 any concern that by … if the Council should approve that, that the ultimate result would be 4 discouraging three bedroom units, because they would have to provide another parking space? 5 You’re not worried about that? Well, it’s… I’m sorry, you go from one and a half to two, is that 6 what you said? Okay. I guess my concern is, we just haven’t looked at the numbers the way 7 staff has and we’re not providing any kind of relief valve if it turns out that doing that forces 8 another level. Now, we’re talking about 285 additional parking spaces in this area. And so, I’d 9 be comfortable supporting the motion if we were giving staff the flexibility to make some 10 counter balance alteration if necessary to keep this constraint from you know, HCD saying… you 11 can’t.. those aren’t viable now. 12 13 Chair Summa: I think both Director Lait and consultant Ms. Eisberg said it would have to go up 14 to accommodate. 15 16 Commissioner Hechtman: Right, but did we change the … is there any (crosstalk) 17 18 Vice Chair Chang: What I heard from Ms. Eisberg is it’s unlikely to change anything actually. But 19 to me, it would be fairly material because it would make this area much more livable. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: I have two lights, first Commissioner Akin and then Commissioner Lu. 2 3 Commissioner Akin: My first concern was exactly what Commissioner Hechtman mentioned … 4 that economic conditions are making development really marginal right now, and I could easily 5 see that requiring another half parking space on average would discourage the development of 6 three bedroom places. The housing advocates have been pretty vocal about wanting to see 7 taller buildings here anyway, and I think there’s going to be significant pressure on Council to 8 permit that. Some of that may be out of our control, if the State Density Bonus Law is applied 9 and we’re already given sixty feet as the baseline zoning for this area. So we may see some of 10 those tall buildings regardless. So, I don’t think this is a poison pill, but I think it’s probably not 11 as well considered as it should be. 12 13 Chair Summa: Commissioner Lu 14 15 Commissioner Lu: I am unsure how much of a practical difference that actual .5 space will truly 16 make, I think many developers would include two spaces anyways. But I think that on principle I 17 would not agree with the motion, I think an extra .5 space kind of deeded or assigned to the 18 unit does add several tens of thousands of dollars to the actual final cost of that unit, and 19 bundled parking in general, is not … it’s not something that we need to mandate. The developer 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. can build extra spaces and rent them out if needed, or they could just bundle spaces if they 1 want. I think we can come up with street level mitigations. So I am fine with the parking as it is. 2 3 Chair Summa: Thank you. Commissioner Templeton do you have your light on again? Okay. 4 And then after you speak unless anybody objects, I’m going to call the vote. 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: There’s no second. Is there a second. Oh you did? I just wanted to 7 respond and clarify that I don’t object to building housing in taller buildings. I object to building 8 tall buildings in a migratory path. 9 10 Chair Summa: Okay. 11 12 Director Lait: Chair? Over here. 13 14 Chair Summa: Thank you. 15 16 Director Lait: So before you vote, I just wanted to note that we’re resetting the base district 17 development standards for this area and in doing that, we would anticipate a developer to also 18 take advantage of the State Density Bonus Law. And State Density Bonus Law has it’s own set of 19 parking requirements that the standards that are in the ordinance, align to. However, when you 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. start getting to … so for three bedrooms, according to the State Density Bonus Law, it’s 1.5 1 spaces for a three bedroom and for four bedrooms it’s 2.5 spaces. So that’s State Density Bonus 2 Law. And anybody, whether they’re providing a density bonus could take advantage of those 3 reduced numbers. So, just again, probably not usually consequential, the motion, but just more 4 information for you. 5 6 Chair Summa: Thank you for that. Oh yes please. 7 8 Commissioner Reckdahl: Density Bonus Law, so if someone took advantage of State Density 9 Bonus Law in this neighborhood, they could add extra height, they could add… what options do 10 they have. 11 12 Director Lait: Many options really. Depending on the amount of affordable housing that is 13 provided on site, should they choose to take advantage of that and not use the in lieu fee, 14 which is out standard today, they would be able to ask for concessions, set forth in the code, 15 State law, and an unlimited number of waivers to development standards to achieve their 16 development, so it could be setbacks, it could be height, it could be lot coverage, but parking 17 (interrupted) 18 19 Commissioner Reckdahl: But unlimited number… 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Director Lait: Yes. 2 3 Commissioner Reckdahl: Makes my head spin. So how important are these numbers. Like if we 4 set a parking limit, what’s the probability of that particular unit is gonna be constrained by 5 that? 6 7 Director Lait: Well, so the State Density Bonus establishes it’s own parking standards, so it’s 8 close to what we’re proposing. We … so.. I guess I’m not understanding your question. They 9 could take advantage of the parking standards set forth by the State. 10 11 Chair Summa: Albert, I mean Attorney Yang. 12 13 Mr. Yang: Yeah, just to reiterate what Director Lait was saying, for… density bonus is going to 14 be available to anyone who provides onsite affordable units. And, for a rental project, they 15 don’t need to provide onsite units in the city. So, you know, if we change the parking standards 16 here, it would be effective for a rental project that pays the in lieu fee, but for an ownership 17 project or a rental project that decides to provide some onsite units, they’ll be able to use State 18 Density Bonus Law to lower the parking requirements. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Yes, if I may, I was going to say… because of what the State, the way the State 1 has written these laws, and I was study the density bonus law with the aid of our attorney’s 2 office, it almost doesn’t matter, except for one thing. We can’t count potential density bonus 3 laws to meet our Housing Element numbers. So, regardless of … I hate to say this… and I think 4 I’m right, Director Lait will laugh at me if I’m wrong, but regardless of what we do here, they 5 can come in with density bonus law and do whatever they want regardless of the birds and 6 how.. that we care about you know elderly people walking for miles with their groceries, but 7 we…. Since we have no control over that, we might as well control the fact that if we do it this 8 way, we get to count the units for our Housing Element. I know that sounds defeated perhaps 9 and cynical, especially from me, but I actually just think it’s reality, sadly. So, I would really like 10 to say one last time before we vote, that that’s what the State has done. It’s not we’ve done 11 and it’s not what we’re doing to our city, or our residents or our future residents. It’s what the 12 State has done. Are we ready to vote? 13 14 Commissioner Reckdahl: what bothers me is that our evidence that we have is our parking 15 study, which wasn’t perfect, but it was.. you know, they put a lot of effort into that. That 16 showed a demand that’s higher than this. And this is no where near any mass transit. Which 17 means more people are going to have cars, so that’s why I want to bump it up but I also doesn’t 18 want to make anything infeasible. So, I think this is a small bump up. I think it’s reasonable. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: Could we call the vote please. 1 2 VOTE 3 4 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 5 6 Commissioner Templeton: No. 7 8 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa? 9 10 Chair Summa: No. 11 12 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl? 13 14 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes. 15 16 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Lu? 17 18 Commissioner Lu: No. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 1 2 Commissioner Hechtman: Nope. 3 4 Ms. Dao: Vice-Chair Chang? 5 6 Vice-Chair Chang: Yes. 7 8 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin? 9 10 Commissioner Akin: No. 11 12 Ms. Dao: Motion Fails 2-5-0. 13 14 MOTION FAILED 2 (Reckdahl, Chang) 5 (Lu, Hechtman, Summa, Akin, Templeton) -0 15 Commission Action: Motion by Chang, seconded by Reckdahl. FAIL 2-5-0 16 17 Chair Summa: Thank you very much, I think we’re done with that. Oh, no votes. We have one 18 more? Okay. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. MOTION # 9 1 2 Commissioner Reckdahl: I will move that the PTC recommend to the City Council adoption of 3 the ordinance amending Palo Alto’s zoning codes, specifically Sections I and II, appearing on 4 Packet pages 75 through 84, including a few language changes to those pages, earlier 5 mentioned and providing that staff investigate adjusting the minimum densities contained in 6 Tables 1 and 2, in an effort to discourage development of townhomes on these opportunity 7 sites. 8 9 Chair Summa: Commissioner Akin you have your light on. 10 11 Commissioner Akin: Yeah, I do, I apologize I intended to get this in before the motion was 12 made. But on page 76, four mixed use developments, so this is in B.3, you’ll notice that there is 13 a minimum of fifty percent of residential floor area, and I just wanted to observe that as a rule 14 of thumb, it takes about three times as much floor area to house a person as it does to employ 15 one. Which means that a 50/50 split is actually making the jobs and housing imbalance worse. 16 So, an appropriate numbers depends on how much you decide you want to use as 17 representative office space, the last study I have from before the pandemic said silicon valley 18 requires about 150 square feet per person, a studio is 450, so three to one, is a plausible ratio 19 that wouldn’t work out. It needs to be 75% residential floor area. If you want to compromise 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. you can go for two-thirds or 65%, and that’s justifiable if you believe that it takes 250 square 1 feet to employ a person, but this is a small change, but it does require discussion, so if anyone 2 wants to entertain it, I would suggest that we change this to 65%. 3 4 Director Lait: Can you tell us the section again? 5 6 Commissioner Akin: Packet page 76, this is 18.14.020 B.3. 7 8 Mr. Yang: So, this is for sites that are commercial zones right now. Not residential zones, so 9 these are sites where office development is permitted, but because we’ve identified them on 10 our Housing Element inventory, State Law actually requires that they be developed at least 50% 11 residential. 12 13 Commissioner Akin: Well, at least, Are we suggesting that we have the option to increase that 14 threshold or not? 15 16 Mr. Yang: Well, I guess if we’re talking about something that’s in the CZ district. Is it our 17 intention to not permit, basically to require that to be residentially developed now. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Akin: I think what I was suggesting was, as we have done in other cases, that we 1 try to strike an equal balance. So that the jobs/housing imbalance isn’t worsened. 2 3 Chair Summa: Commissioner Lu. 4 5 Commissioner Lu: Albert answered it. 6 7 Chair Summa: Okay. Did you say that was 65 percent or 75 percent. 8 9 Commissioner Akin: I suggested 65 as a compromise. The best guess I can give you from the last 10 data I have is 75 percent is the right number, but it’s debatable. 11 12 Chair Summa: The maker does not have a second, so I don’t know if … 13 14 Commissioner Hechtman: Right, so this is a great time to be discussing this, before anybody 15 seconds. Mr. Yang did you want to say something? 16 17 Mr. Yang: No, I guess this wasn’t included as a … as like a housing initiative, it was included 18 because it’s a requirement of State Law. But, the Commission is free to go beyond State law in 19 this issue. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: So, I guess I’ll comment that again, we’re not dealing with a 2 greenfield here, that right, it’s going to apply to some commercial building that somebody’s got, 3 and they are going to be looking at a choice. Do I keep this office building I have, generate the 4 good rent that’s generating, or am I going to redevelop the property. And what this applies to is 5 redevelopment with you know, a combination of commercial and lower income households. 6 Right. So, those are less profitable residential endeavors. And so, part of the reason I think that 7 the 50 percent here is contemplated in State Law and works, is because, while Commissioner 8 Akin is right, it creates a little… it enhances the imbalance potentially, of office to housing, what 9 it also does is it pays for the housing that won’t pay for itself. And so, that I think is a tradeoff 10 that some communities have found worth making, on the small scale that we’re generally 11 talking about in these kinds of mixed use developments. So, I’m … I would prefer to leave the 12 number where State Law has set it at 50 percent and not incorporate it into my motion. 13 14 Commissioner Reckdahl: What is the actual ability of this section? They’re talking… you said 15 low income? 16 17 Mr. Yang: So, this section is saying that if you have a site that is identified in our Housing 18 Element as being suitable for low income housing, so we’re projected that you could have low 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. income housing on this site, then you must develop at least 50 percent residential, but it 1 doesn’t have to be low income in that development. 2 3 Commissioner Reckdahl: The half acre? 4 5 Mr. Yang: No, 50 percent of the floor area of your project has to be residential. 6 7 Commissioner Reckdahl: But the Bar for being suitable for low income housing is they have to 8 be half acre parcel. Right. That was.. 9 10 Mr. Yang: That’s the rule of thumb. 11 12 Commissioner Reckdahl: Okay. 13 14 Chair Summa: Commissioner [Vice Chair] Chang you had a question? No. Okay. Okay, back to 15 the motion. Do we have a second? 16 17 SECOND 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Summa: I will second it for the purpose of discussion. And see if anyone wants to make 1 an amendment. 2 3 Commissioner Lu: I’ll ask a question. So actually just to double check here, the fifty percent 4 applies to commercially zoned housing opportunity sites, so that would include downtown, El 5 Camino, I mean I guess Research Park is a moot point, GM ROLM is a moot point, so mainly just 6 apply it to like the CD on CS et cetera districts, right? 7 8 Director Lait: Not exclusively no, I think it would also apply to the GM and the ROLM area. 9 10 Mr. Yang: Yeah, the 50 percent applies to all zone districts, but for residential districts you’re 11 already required to do 100% residential. Or you know, almost 100% residential. It’s really only 12 going to have an impact on the commercial districts. 13 14 Chair Summa: Any amendments or questions or comments? If not.. 15 16 MOTION AMENDMENT 17 18 Commissioner Akin: yeah, I’m going to offer an Amendment. Presumably not a friendly 19 amendment in this case, so not having done this before, what’s the appropriate procedure? 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Chair Summa: It’s just an amendment, we don’t have friendly or unfriendly amendments. It’s 2 just an amendment. 3 4 Commissioner Akin: Alright, so I suggest that the 50 percent threshold be changed to 65 5 percent. 6 7 Commissioner Hechtman: So, as the maker of the motion I’ll decline that but isn’t there a 8 process where he can make a separate motion? 9 10 Mr. Yang: So, right now, he’s proposed an amendment and that needs to be seconded. 11 12 SECOND 13 14 Commissioner Reckdahl: I’ll second that. 15 16 Commissioner Hechtman: Yeah, so that … it’s really a motion.. since I don’t voluntarily agree to 17 it, it becomes a motion, which (crosstalk) 18 19 Chair Summa: We don’t have substitute motions. It’s just a motion. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Commissioner Hechtman: I don’t think it is. Right. It’s a motion for an amendment to the 2 motion that is still on the table. 3 4 Chair Summa: So we have an amendment on the table that is now a motion with a maker and a 5 seconder, would anyone like to speak to it? 6 7 Commissioner Akin: Yeah, I’ll just speak very briefly, most of this has already been covered, but 8 given what I’ve heard from Counsel Yang, the applicability of this is wide enough, that I think it’s 9 worth making the guarantee. 10 11 Commissioner Reckdahl: These are housing opportunity sites that we want housing on. And to 12 have that be 50 percent not housing, seems to be a loss to me. 13 14 Commissioner Lu: Yeah, I think in many of these retail areas, I know retail is not a particularly 15 desirable proposition for many developers, retail development does add value to the entire 16 neighborhood in a way that an office does not, and I think lumping offices and retail together 17 here in that 65 percent, is not something I would support, I suppose I would support an 18 amendment to that motion, but then I start thinking that we’re getting too specific and kind of 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. too far down the rabbit hole in a way that we haven’t quite studied or understood. So, I’ve 1 mixed thoughts. I have not totally decided how I would vote on this. 2 3 Chair Summa: I think when retail… my read of this … I can be corrected, that under B, 4 permitted uses, where retail is required, it would still remain. 5 6 Commissioner Lu: Yes, but if someone wanted to build a … I don’t.. supermarket and it was 7 50/50 residential and retail, based on floor area, I would still say on balance, that supermarket 8 is… like having that option to have the retail is valuable and maybe similarly valuable as the 9 extra incremental housing that we would otherwise get through this amendment. 10 11 Chair Summa: Commissioner Akin. 12 13 Commissioner Akin: No, I didn’t have my light on. 14 15 Commissioner Templeton: I have my light on. 16 17 Chair Summa: oh. Commissioner Templeton 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: Thank you. I just wanted to agree with the Chair that we don’t 1 normally do this and even if it’s technically allowed, it’s against our norms, so I won’t be 2 supporting this, just on form. If you want to make your own motion after this one is defeated 3 that’s fine, but I won’t be supporting the amendment. 4 5 Chair Summa: I think it doesn’t matter so much, except that, our City Attorney told us we could 6 do it this way, so why don’t we vote on this motion. 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: I don’t want to set the precedent because we don’t usually do this. 9 10 Commissioner Reckdahl: We do amendments. This is an amendment. 11 12 Commissioner Templeton: It’s an amendment, yes, it is. But it’s not accepted by the maker and 13 I just think it’s bad form. 14 15 Chair Summa: I thought that was a rule also. I have to agree but I am, at this point, I’m happy 16 to do whatever the group wants me to do. Okay, please call the vote on the motion for the 17 amendment. 18 19 VOTE 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin? 2 3 Commissioner Akin: Yes. 4 5 Ms. Dao: Vice-Chair Chang? 6 7 Vice-Chair Chang: Yes. 8 9 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 10 11 Commissioner Hechtman: No. 12 13 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Lu? 14 15 Commissioner Lu: No. 16 17 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl? 18 19 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. 1 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa? 2 3 Chair Summa: Yes. 4 5 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 6 7 Commissioner Templeton: No. 8 9 Ms. Dao: Motion Carries 4-3-0. 10 11 MOTION CARRIES 4 (Reckdahl, Chang, Summa, Akin) 3 (Lu, Hechtman, Templeton) -0 12 Commission Action: Motion by Akin, seconded by Reckdahl. Pass 4-3-0 13 14 15 MOTION # 10 16 17 Commissioner Hechtman: So now we can vote on the motion I made, as amended by the 18 amendment that just got approved. Right? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. SECOND 1 2 Commissioner Akin: And I believe you need a second, so I’m willing to Second. 3 4 Director Lait: Chair, I have a clarification on the motion. So, Commissioner Hechtman you had 5 for Tables 1 and 2, on your motion said for staff to investigate the minimum density contained 6 in those tables, 1 and 2, and in our staff report, I believe we were really making reference to 7 GM and ROLM, so, I just wanted to clarify if it’s your intent to focus in on the industrial areas. 8 We noted in the staff report, on Packet page 28, that adding increasing the minimum density 9 for the RM 20 and 30 may be a constrain to … because the sites are smaller, and so our focus 10 here are on the larger RM GM and ROLM sites. It was twenty DUA when you saw this at the 11 study session. We raised it to 25 in the ordinance and I guess there’s a question of if we should 12 go higher still. 13 14 Commissioner Reckdahl: I mean if you look at PHZ, we’re getting 80, 90… so I think that 15 bumping that up to forty or so would certainly be reasonable, but… 16 17 Commissioner Hechtman: Sorry, I’m trying to follow, I’m not trying to create additional 18 constraint, but I am trying to achieve the densities we’re hoping for which are not townhouse 19 densities. So when I read that paragraph, we’re talking about in the case… so, we’ve got these 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. RM 20’s and 30’s where the ones that are housing opportunity sites, the density is set a thirty 1 to fifty. Right. And I’m not necessarily… my motion isn’t suggesting that you go above thirty to 2 fifty, if they’re already there in the Housing opportunity sites, but when I look at Tables 1 and 2, 3 which are both… all categories, I only see one minimum density of 30 and that’s the RM 40 has 4 a minimum density of thirty-one. So, I tried to state the motion generally to just give staff 5 direction to look at increasing the densities to really avoid townhouse development. And so I’m 6 hoping that some flexibility along that line will allow staff to do an analysis at some time other 7 than 12:15 in the morning, and maybe decide we really can’t alter these densities without 8 creating a constraint and so the numbers have to stay the way they are. I just wanted to flag 9 the issue and give staff an opportunity to dig into it on it’s way to Council. That was the intent 10 of the motion. 11 12 Director Lait: Okay, thank you. 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: Can we call it Chair? 15 16 Chair Summa: Pardon me? Yeah. Let’s vote. 17 18 VOTE 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Dao: Chair Summa? 1 2 Chair Summa: We’re voting on… 3 4 Commissioner Hechtman: My motion that got amended by the amendment that got approved. 5 6 Chair Summa: No. 7 8 Ms. Dao: Vice-Chair Chang? 9 10 Vice-Chair Chang: Yes. 11 12 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin? 13 14 Commissioner Akin: Yes. 15 16 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 17 18 Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Dao: Commissioner Lu? 1 2 Commissioner Lu: No. 3 4 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl? 5 6 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes. 7 8 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 9 10 Commissioner Templeton: No. 11 12 Ms. Dao: Motion Fails 2-5-0. 13 14 MOTION CARRIES 4 (Reckdahl, Chang, Summa, Akin) 3 (Lu, Hechtman, Templeton) -0 15 Commission Action: Motion by Hechtman, seconded by Akin. PASS 4-3-0 16 17 Chair Summa: Please speak to your no votes. 18 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Templeton: I’d like to go first, I really object to how this area has been laid out, 1 I’ve said it before, I won’t go into more detail there, but I do think in general, if you have 2 banked 33% of your upcoming housing plans, in one neighborhood that doesn’t have any 3 homes in it at all yet, that’s concerning and I think this is a huge mistake. 4 5 Vice Chair Chang: Clarification, so when you say this area, you mean the GM ROLM, because 6 there’s a whole bunch of stuff in there. 7 8 Commissioner Templeton: You’re absolutely right, thank you. It is late and I did not add that 9 detail so thank you for helping with that. 10 11 Chair Summa: Any other comments? Okay. So, I believe we are now finished with this item and 12 we can very quickly turn to two sets of minutes we have. 13 14 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 15 Public Comment is Permitted. Three (3) minutes per speaker. 16 17 4. Approval of Planning & Transportation Commission Draft Summary Minutes of 18 August 9, 2023 19 20 Chair Summa: So, I’m looking for a motion and a seconder for approval of minutes from Draft 21 Summary minutes of August 9th? 22 23 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. MOTION 1 2 Commissioner Hechtman: Move approval as revised. 3 4 SECOND 5 6 Vice Chair Chang: Second. 7 8 Chair Summa: Can you call the vote please? 9 10 VOTE 11 12 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin? 13 14 Commissioner Akin: Yes. 15 16 Ms. Dao: Vice-Chair Chang? 17 18 Vice-Chair Chang: Yes. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 1 2 Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 3 4 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Lu? 5 6 Commissioner Lu: Yes. 7 8 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl? 9 10 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes. 11 12 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 13 14 Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 15 16 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa? 17 18 Chair Summa: Yes. 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Dao: Motion carries 7-0-0. 1 2 MOTION PASSED 7 (Akin, Chang, Lu, Hechtman, Summa, Reckdahl, Templeton) -0 -0 3 Commission Action: Motion by Hechtman, seconded by Chang. Pass 7-0-0 4 5 5. Approval of Planning & Transportation Commission Draft Summary and Verbatim 6 Minutes of August 30, 2023 7 8 Chair Summa: Now I’m looking for approval of the Draft Summary and Verbatimi minutes of 9 August 30th. 10 11 MOTION 12 13 Commissioner Hechtman: Move approval as revised. 14 15 SECOND 16 17 Commissioner Reckdahl: Second. 18 19 Chair Summa: Okay, could you call the vote please. 20 21 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. VOTE 1 2 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Templeton? 3 4 Commissioner Templeton: Yes. 5 6 Ms. Dao: Chair Summa? 7 8 Chair Summa: Yes. 9 10 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Reckdahl? 11 12 Commissioner Reckdahl: Yes. 13 14 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Lu? 15 16 Commissioner Lu: Yes. 17 18 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Hechtman? 19 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Hechtman: Yes. 1 2 Ms. Dao: Vice-Chair Chang? 3 4 Vice-Chair Chang: Yes. 5 6 Ms. Dao: Commissioner Akin? 7 8 Commissioner Akin: Yes. 9 10 Ms. Dao: Motion carries 7-0-0. 11 12 MOTION PASSED 7 (Akin, Chang, Lu, Hechtman, Summa, Reckdahl, Templeton) -0 -0 13 Commission Action: Motion by Hechtman, seconded by Reckdahl. Pass 7-0-0 14 15 Chair Summa: Thank you very much. 16 Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 17 None 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Adjournment 1 12:21 am 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9