HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-09-26 Planning & transportation commission Summary Minutes_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Planning & Transportation Commission 1
Action Agenda: September 26, 2018 2
Council Chambers 3
250 Hamilton Avenue 4
6:00 PM 5
6
Call to Order / Roll Call 7
6:07pm 8
9
Chair Lauing: Ok I’d like to call to order the regular meeting of the Planning and Transportation 10
Commission for September 26, 2018. Acting Director Lait is going to call the roll. You’re on. Yes, 11
Commissioner Summa had a last-minute family medical issue so she won’t be coming tonight. 12
Oral Communications 13
The public may speak to any item not on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker.1,2 14
15
Chair Lauing: First item on the agenda is oral communications. I have to go through this stack to 16
see if there are any cards for speakers on issues that are other than agenized items. I see one 17
and this Arthur Keller for oral communications. 18
19
Mr. Arthur Keller: Commissioners, the think I’m bringing up here is that – there are two things 20
that I’m going to mention. One is I understand that there’s a proposal for a fuel cell – hydrogen 21
fuel cell fueling station at Barron Park Shell in Palo Alto. It’s been going on for quite a while and 22
I’m wondering whether people have studied the safety of that fueling station in comparison to 23
the other adjacent uses and if there are any requirements that the City has about what such a 24
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
fueling station would have in terms of its safety and desirability of such a use within Palo Alto. 1
We have, as people know, 20 percent of the cars sold in for Palo Alto residents in the last year 2
were electric cars. There’s almost no need for fuel cell cars. They’re way behind and so I’d like 3
the City to investigate whether this is something that the City wants to encourage. 4
5
The second thing is that people may be aware that there’s a certain pizza delivery company that 6
parks its pizza manufacturing – basically they build pizzas – they cook pizzas in a large vehicle 7
that is illegally parked right in front of Pally High School because there’s no parking there 8
allowed I think from 3 to 5 or from 4 to 6. And they park there anyway, they park there 9
continuously. I’m not sure if the City gets revenue or if there’s actually legal use of a public 10
street for such a use. So, I’d like the City to investigate that and make appropriate findings as to 11
whether that is a legal use or whether we should encourage that in contrast to our brick and 12
mortar pizza places that can pay rent and do pay sales tax to the City of Palo Alto. Thank you. 13
14
Chair Lauing: Ok thank you. That concludes all comments on oral communications. 15
Agenda Changes, Additions, and Deletions 16
The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 17
18
Chair Lauing: Are there any changes – additions, changes, or deletions for the agenda? 19
City Official Reports 20
1. Assistant Directors Report, Meeting Schedule and Assignments 21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Ok then we’ll go to the Acting Director’s report. 1
2
Mr. Jonathan Lait, Assistant Director of Planning: Thank you Chair. Just two items to report. One 3
is that on October 1st the City Council will consider changes to the Accessory Dwelling Unit 4
Ordinance which this Commission has reviewed and made recommendations to the City 5
Council. And then the other item is a study session item at 980 Middlefield for a community 6
center that’s being proposed. And then Vice Chair Monk, you are identified as the Commission 7
representative for the accessory dwelling unit item that’s going on October 1st so we can talk 8
more about that offline. That’s all. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Ok thank you. We have a problem with our timer here. We’ll just take a minute to 11
see if that’s resolvable. 12
13
Study Session 14
Public Comment is Permitted. Five (5) minutes per speaker.1,3 15
16
There are no study session items for this meeting. 17
Action Items 18
Public Comment is Permitted. Applicants/Appellant Teams: Fifteen (15) minutes, plus three (3) minutes rebuttal. 19
All others: Five (5) minutes per speaker.1,3 20
21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
2. PUBLIC HEARING. 3703-3709 El Camino Real [18PLN-00136]: Recommendation to the 1
City Council on the Adoption of an Ordinance to Apply the Affordable Housing (AH) 2
Combining District to the Site Located at 3703-3709 El Camino Real. Zoning District: 3
CN. Environmental Assessment: Exempt from the Provisions of the California 4
Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) per Guideline Section 15194. 5
6
Chair Lauing: Ok we’ll move to Item Two on the agenda, a hearing on recommendations to City 7
Council on adoption of an ordinance to apply the AH Combining District to site located at 3703 8
and 3709 El Camino. We’re going to do a Staff report, followed by any disclosures necessary by 9
Commissioners. Go ahead. 10
11
Mr. Graham Owen: Alright, thank you Chair Lauing, Graham Owen with the Planning Staff. I’ve 12
been working with the applicants on the rezoning application that’s here before you today. This 13
is 3703 through 3709 El Camino Real. It’s commonly referred to kind of erroneously as Wilton 14
Court but that’s just kind of the name that’s stuck so far. But this is the project proposed by 15
Palo Alto Housing to develop the site with a 100 percent affordable project constituting 65 units 16
of affordable – dead restricted affordable units in a 4-story building. 17
18
Go back one, got sticky keys. Ok, so the component of the project that’s before you here today 19
is building on a foundation that started about a year ago. The application before you today is a 20
rezoning application which is a recommendation from the PTC to the City Council. The 21
application was looked at by the City Council back in August of last year during a pre-screening 22
application which is required for any larger project that requires Council action. At that pre-23
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
screening application, the Council directed Staff to move forward with an Affordable Housing 1
Combining District Ordinance that would allow for this project as well as other future project to 2
move forward. That Affordable Housing Ordinance was considered by the PTC in February and 3
March of this year and was approved by the Council in April. So, the current application that’s 4
before you today is a rezoning, it’s being processed concurrently with the application for 5
Architectural Review which is going to be scheduled for the Architectural Review Board hearing 6
that’s on October the 4th which is next week. 7
8
So, as I mentioned it’s a rezoning application, it would retain the existing CN Zoning District 9
which is on the site currently. Its one of the common Commercial Zoning Districts along the El 10
Camino Real corridor but this would add an additional layer of development standards to the 11
site which we call the Affordable Housing Combining District. And what this ordinance does is it 12
provides more flexible development standards for qualifying projects and when I say qualifying 13
projects I mean site located or projects that are located on sites that are approximate to transit, 14
transit stops and high-quality transit corridors, as well as having underlying commercial zoning. 15
As I mentioned the Architectural Review Board is going to be getting into the technical 16
development standards and looking at the project relative to those standards. The PT’s role 17
today – PTC’s role today is to deliberate and decide whether the application of this overlay zone 18
to this specific property is in accordance with the Comprehensive Plan. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So, this is the site, it is technically two parcels right now but with the application, they’d be 1
merging the parcels. The underlying zoning is CN [note-and] as I mentioned the underlying 2
Comprehensive Plan land use designation is also Neighborhood Commercial. The lot area is just 3
under about half of an acre and it’s historically been used as retail, some automotive services, 4
as well as a marine and motor supply shop back in the 70’s. Interestingly enough the building 5
on the right was also previously a DMV back in the 50’s. So dead center is the location of the 6
site, as you can see its underlying zoning is CN and it’s surrounded by a commercial district. 7
Directly across the alleyway, which you can’t see terribly well right here but there is an ally way 8
to the northeast of the site that divides the site from the adjacent parcel, and you have a 9
narrow band of RM-30 which is multi-family residential zoning. And then beyond that, an R-2 10
Zone which allows two units per site and then beyond that is R-1 or so single-family residential. 11
So, there’s a diverse range of land uses in the area with a gradual transition in density and 12
intensity from El Camino Real to the north as well as to the south into Barron Park. 13
14
So, I’m not going to read all these but they are included int eh Staff reports. The Comprehensive 15
Plan does contain a large number of policies that are applicable to the project from a number of 16
perspectives. There’s an overwhelming support for the creation of affordable units in having 17
certain policies and programs to incentives affordable projects both in the multi-family zones as 18
well as in the commercial zones. The Comprehensive Plan also does contain both in the land 19
use section as well as the Housing Element other policies about preserving neighborhood 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
character, having gradual transitions in density and intensity between commercial and multi-1
family zones to more low density. The Comprehensive Plan also does have policies about 2
preserving ground floor retail. This site having a retail and retail like uses on it is otherwise 3
subject to the Retail Preservation Ordinance but the applicant with their architectural review 4
application is going to be requesting a waiver from the Retail Preservation Ordinance given the 5
provisions of the AH Combining District which was pasted in April. 6
7
Environmental Review, so we assessed the project in accordance with the California 8
Environmental Quality Act and there’s a specific affordable housing exemption which applies to 9
the site. So, I just wanted to kind of walk you through that, there’s an At Places Memo that’s 10
I’ve provided which is our analysis of the criteria and thresholds of the – that are applicable for 11
this exemption. In summary, there’s a number of reasons that the application or excuse me, 12
that the project meets these criteria thresholds. It’s – the site’s located in urbanized area, it’s 13
not in a wetland area where [unintelligible] open space. With regards to hazardous materials, I 14
mentioned that the site did previously have automotive services and a motor service as well or 15
marine motor services as well. And so, we did do Phase 1 and Phase 2 testing on the site and 16
they detected some residual chemicals from those previous uses related to motor oil. The 17
exemption does allow for the mitigation of those contaminations with a Site Management Plan 18
as well the Health and Risk Assessment, so it’s basically baking in a mitigation measure into an 19
exemption. We also did a traffic study to study the intersection at Wilton Court or excuse me 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Wilton Avenue and El Camino, as well as Barron Avenue and El Camino Real. Given the net 1
difference in the existing retail space going to a residential use, there’s actually very, very little 2
in terms of net increase in your total trips. In the pm that’s actually a net decrease in the total 3
number of trips that are associated with the site. So, I’ll leave it at that, I believe the applicant 4
does have a presentation but Staff is recommending approval of the project of the re-zoning as 5
well as finding that the project is exempted. So, I’ll leave it at that, if you have any questions I’m 6
free to – happy to answer. 7
8
Chair Lauing: Thanks, Graham. Ok, we’ll just do routine disclosures just as a matter of course so 9
if we could start from my right. Any contact with the public or application or anything relative 10
to this project. 11
12
Commissioner Gardias: No. 13
14
Chair Lauing: No, I had two voicemail exchanges that – we never got through so I didn’t have 15
any contact either. 16
17
Commissioner Riggs: I had no contact with anyone [unintelligible]. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Alcheck: I had a telephone conversation with the applicant’s representatives. We 1
did not, in fact, discuss the project, we discussed the AH Overlay Zone and how it’s applied. And 2
I spent more times answering questions but it was a nice conversation. 3
4
Chair Lauing: Ok thank you. Could we have the applicant presentation now? 5
6
Ms. Cheryl Klein: Alright, Chair Lauing and Commissioners, thank you for your time and 7
consideration this evening. My name is Sheryl Klein and I am the Board Chair of Palo Alto 8
Housing. We are in the process of getting a new CEO so I’m stepping in to present the project 9
here tonight. Our new CEO will be starting in November. So, I’m here tonight to represent the 10
Board of Palo Alto Housing, our Staff, and our community of Palo Alto residents. Residents who 11
participate in our local workforce and contribute to the diversity of our community. 12
13
Palo Alto Housing was established by the Palo Alto City Council in 1969. Then-Mayor Arnold 14
appointed a group of founding Directors to initiate the Council’s support of – support in all 15
reasonable and appropriate ways to provide programs for low- and moderate-income housing 16
both within Palo Alto and externally as far as our participation would be appropriate. Since 17
1969 we have built a portfolio of large and small sites in Palo Alto. Our housing is all over town 18
and you likely drive by some of our communities every day. In addition to housing, we offer our 19
residents other services, classes, activities, after school and summer programs. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
We are a few months away from finishing our first project in Mountain View, it’s called Eagle 2
Park, [and] it has 67 units on a parcel roughly the same size as the one we’re discussing tonight. 3
And we just went on a round of 9 percent tax credits – tax credit financing on a project in the 4
unincorporated area of Redwood City and we will break ground in 6-months. Also, the project is 5
about half an acre. 6
7
We are here tonight to request to re-zoning of properties that we own at 3703 through 3709 El 8
Camino Real. We are asking that the two parcels be re-zoned into the Affordable Housing 9
Combining District. Such a zone change will allow us to finish plans to build an apartment 10
building that will have 65 studio and 1-bedroom apartments. The building will be 100 percent 11
affordable housing with all residents earning between 30 and 60 percent of area mean income. 12
While the actual building plans are still in the works, we’re hoping that at least 16 of these units 13
will be for adults who are developmentally disabled. Housing Choices, non-profit advocacy 14
groups, estimates that there are 400 adults with developmental disabilities in Palo Alto alone. 15
Wouldn’t it be great to build some apartments for them? 16
17
Why do we want to build here on this site? First, we own the land and that’s quite an 18
accomplishment in Palo Alto. It’s location on El Camino Real proximity to bus transportation 19
and community services made it very attractive. VTA Bus Route 22 stops nearby and runs 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
approximately every 15-minutes during the peak hours. Route 22 not only travels up and down 1
El Camino but it also links to other bus routes and modes of transportation. The site is within 2
walking distance to California Avenue train station and Barron Park Market is across the street. 3
When we apply for funding through the tax credit program our projects are scored based on 4
how close they are to public transportation and services. Without close proximity, this project is 5
not –without close proximity to those services this project is not as attractive to public funding. 6
So, when we find a site that can meet the criteria of tax credit funding we love it. 7
8
We plan to have a community room on the ground floor of the building and we hope that the 9
Ventura Neighborhood will be able to take advantage of this resource. Benches and landscaping 10
will be placed in front of the building to contribute to the pedestrian experience. Bike loops will 11
be installed outside for bike parking and the building’s height will act as a sound barrier from 12
the noise coming from El Camino to the neighborhood. In addition, we plan to install a curb cut 13
on Wilton for Uber/Lyft pick ups and drop offs. Redevelopment will also remove the current 14
driveway at 3705 El Camino. This driveway is dangerous for pedestrians walking down the 15
street. 16
17
We want to be good future neighbors and the first step in doing so is addressing the concerns 18
of Ventura residents about the impact of this project. We’ve had several meetings with them, 19
both last summer and this summer, and another meeting is planned on October 7th. Becky 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Sanders, the neighborhood leader, has been very helpful in sharing their concerns, organizing 1
meetings and we appreciate her open-mindedness and support. Ventura residents are 2
concerned about traffic, parking, and the safety of their neighborhood. Wilton Avenue is 3
narrow and already heavily parked. We do not plan to impact their street parking and will build 4
sufficient parking onsite for our residents. Last summer we updated our site parking study and 5
identified that our projected and true use of parking needs is .5 stall per bedroom. Given the 6
combination of residents we plan to have in the building, we believe that a plan of 41 parking 7
spaces will be sufficient. Bikes will be parked in secure indoor bike parking at a one to one ratio. 8
The traffic study done by Hexagon shows that our project will have a minimal impact on 9
neighborhood traffic. According to their report, a small number of measurable project trips 10
added to the intersection of El Camino Real and Wilton would not have a measurable impact to 11
the intersection operations. Crossing safety on El Camino will be improved after Caltrans installs 12
a new crossing at the corner of Wilton and El Camino. Caltrans will be making these 13
improvements over the next 18 to 24-months. 14
15
During your meetings in February and March when the affordable housing overlay was being 16
discussed, you all expressed strong support for building affordable housing in our community. 17
You understand that affordable housing is necessary to keep our community workforce and 18
seniors from getting forced out of town because they can’t afford to rent. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
I want to tell you a story about my friend Krista who couldn’t make it tonight because she had 1
to take her son to basketball practice. Krista is a single mom with two children, 18 and 11. She 2
earns a little more than $50,000 a year working as a secretary for Palo Alto School District. She 3
grew up in Palo Alto but cannot afford to live here as an adult. With encouragement from her 4
sister she applied for an apartment from us and after spending 3 ½-years on our waiting list, she 5
was lucky enough to get a place on Webster Wood – in Webster Wood. Webster – living in 6
Webster Wood has given her and her children access to our schools and Palo Alto Housing 7
programs. Her daughter graduated last June from Pally and is now a freshman in college. Her 8
middle school son participates in Palo Alto Housing after school and summer programs. Where 9
would she be if she did not have affordable housing? Tonight, you have the opportunity to help 10
65 households like Krista’s. Sixty-five households will be fortunate enough to live at the corner 11
of Wilton and El Camino Real. Sixty-five households who won’t have to be worried – who won't 12
worry about being priced out of their houses. Sixty-five households who will have the 13
opportunity to thrive because they will have housing to ground them. 14
15
As Mathew Desmond says in his book Evicted, we know that without stable shelter everything 16
else falls apart. That’s what affordable housing gives to its residents, stable shelter and with 17
that, they can thrive. Thank you for your time, I’m available for your questions. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Great, thank you. Why don’t you stay there for a minute, we’ll see if 1
Commissioners have any questions? Commissioner Alcheck, is your light on? Ok. Any questions 2
directly to the applicant at this point? If there are questions directly to the applicant but we can 3
save it after public comment if that’s – ok. 4
5
Ms. Klein: Ok, thank you. 6
7
Chair Lauing: Alright, thanks very much. 8
9
Ms. Klein: Thank you. 10
11
Chair Lauing: Thanks to the public for coming out in such force tonight. We love to hear directly 12
from the public. There are a lot of speakers so we’ll jump right in on that. The first one is Katie 13
Talbot to be followed by Ruth I believe it’s Peema. 14
15
Ms. Katie Talbot: Good evening, thank you for considering this project and I’d also like to thank 16
Palo Alto Housing for working so hard on this project. The – it seems to me as a resident that 17
the combination of low-income housing and housing for developmentally and intellectually 18
disabled adults is really a winner for Palo Alto for maintaining the diversity and the vitality of 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the community. So, I really hope that you will do what it takes to encourage this project to 1
happen and thank you very much. 2
3
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Ruth Peema I think it is, ok, I hope I got that right, followed by Jan 4
Stokley. 5
6
Ms. Ruth Peema: Thank you for the opportunity you give me to talk about my short testimony 7
about my life. So, I am new here in the community so I’m excited, I’m happy living with my little 8
ones in the school – school – the elementary school. Before living here my life was chaos 9
because I did – I don’t – I am a single mother and then when I apply for Palo Alto Housing 10
Corporation and my application -- I got lucky because I was in the waiting list by – around 6-11
years waiting for an opportunity to live in here in Palo Alto because my job is in Palo Alto. So, I 12
had to commute from San Jose to Palo Alto around 10-years, that was a stressful commute in 13
the freeway, chaos for me and for my little one because when I was arriving from my job at 14
4:30 the traffic was terrible for me. And then I see my child – I leave from San Jose in the 15
morning to start at 8 o’clock, 6:30 in the morning or 6 o’clock in the morning. My child was with 16
my mother at that time but my mother after that died so I was in big trouble and say oh, who 17
will take care of my child? I need money, I need my child because it’s difficult for a single 18
mother to get education for your child and then – I need support. And then after that, I got the 19
opportunity to live here because my number in the waiting list – exactly when I have 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
[unintelligible] in that travel I see the hope. And then they called me and they say hey, you are 1
next in the waiting list. Just in the moment I have my travel and I said oh lord, thank you so 2
much and then I bring all my papers and they opened the doors for me. And then now, I’m 3
happy to stay here, I’m living with my child here because I am 5- minutes from my job to my 4
home. My son is only 4-blocks from Oak Court to Addison and then he’s happy to live here and 5
he’s growing up and then you helped me a lot. Palo Alto Housing Corporation making many 6
things for the older people, for the seniors, for the disability people and then I see – I thought 7
oh, we need more buildings because I have to work – they have the same travel commuting 8
from San Jose, from -- oops, ok. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Thank you. I should have said at that start every time but this is limited to 3-11
minutes each. Jan Stokley followed by Bonnie Packer. 12
13
Ms. Jan Stokley: I’m Jan Stokley, Executor Director of Housing Choices, we are a non-profit that 14
advocates for quality affordable housing for people with developmental disabilities. We’re 15
really excited about this project because 25 percent of the affordable units would be targeted 16
to Palo Alto residents with developmental disabilities. I have some data on the housing need of 17
your community’s residents with developmental disabilities and I’ll provide it. Briefly, there are 18
165 adults in Palo Alto living with aging parents. That number has doubled in the past 10-years 19
so it’s likely to double again in the next 10-years. There are only 40 affordable housing spaces in 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Palo Alto for that community. Most of them are Page Mill Court, an older property that was 1
developed about 20-years ago. So, there’s a really significant unmet housing need for people 2
with developmental disabilities that this project would address. 3
4
We have a successful track record of supporting people with developmental disabilities to apply 5
for and then maintain their housing. Cities across Santa Clara County have approved projects 6
that are set aside for developmental disabilities and I have a hand out that shows you some of 7
our existing projects. I’ll just say you’d be joining Cities across the county in making this move to 8
provide housing for this particular part of your community. 9
10
On September 11th the City of Santa Clara approved an inclusive workforce housing project 11
adjacent to a single-family neighborhood where 25 percent of the units were targeted to 12
extremely low-income people with developmental disabilities. On September 18th and 19th, the 13
City of Cupertino approved 40 extremely low-income units for people with developmental 14
disabilities as part of a 29 hundred Valco redevelopment proposal. On October 30th the City of 15
Sunnyvale will consider a similar project so it’s happening across the county, it’s very much 16
needed and we are very appreciative of Palo Alto Housing efforts to be inclusive of people with 17
developmental disabilities at Wilton Court. Thank you. 18
19
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Bonnie Packer is next up followed by Pay Lu. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ms. Bonnie Packer: Good evening Commissioners, my name is Bonnie Packer and I’m here 2
representing the League of Women Voters of Palo Alto. The League applauds the City’s 3
adoptions of the Affordable Housing Combining District which will encourage the development 4
of subsidized low to moderate income housing along high-quality transit corridors. We 5
encourage you to recommend the re-zoning of this CN site at Wilton and El Camino to CNAH. 6
That is applying the Affordable Housing Combining District to allow the development of a much-7
needed affordable housing project. 8
9
This 100 percent affordable housing project that would benefit from this re-zone is an excellent 10
one. The site is on a high-quality transit corridor and the project meets all the other 11
requirements of the Affordable Housing Combining District. More importantly, the project will 12
provide 65 small, low-income units, about 25 percent of these for developmentally disabled 13
adults, and the rest for low-income persons. This site is not directly adjacent to single-family 14
homes and is near many services for the residents. 15
16
Since the proposal before you is unequivocally in accordance with the Zoning Ordinance and 17
with the Comprehensive Plan we urge you to recommend approval of this re-zone tonight. It is 18
the right thing for you to do. Thank you. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Pay Lu and then Christopher Moore. 1
2
Mr. Christopher Moore: Thank you. Why I am here, I work for Housing Choices under Jan 3
Stokley. She helped me to apply for [unintelligible]. I was ready to go on my own with other 4
people with disabilities. Sometimes they need Section A housing and there are a big waiting list 5
for Section A vouchers. Once you get a voucher you might be on another list to get housing. 6
This means that we should build more housing and my goals is to convince the government to 7
build more housing. Thank you. 8
9
Chair Lauing: Thank you very much, now Pay Lu. 10
11
Ms. Pay Lu: Good evening Commissioner, my name is Pay Lu, [and] I’m a resident on Wilton 12
Avenue. Ok, as -- well let’s say 65 unit, the Wilton Court project, 25 of them is developmental 13
disability people so its about 16 units. Let’s say – I want to say two points, first of all, the 14
developmental disability people they still need people to visit; their loved ones, their friends to 15
visit them. And they also need a caregiver and agency officials or visitors so they need a parking 16
space. For the rest of the units, let’s say about maybe 40 some units, those are studios. Studios, 17
by the – you provided a .5 ratio, that means only one unit -- only maybe two unit will share one 18
car but those low-income people they frequently – they need more parking spaces because 19
they – may be one job cannot afford where their – what they need. They need multiple jobs, 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
they at least need one car at one unit but I see the parking is not provided adequately for this 1
neighborhood. So, the additional parking will be absorbed by the residents of the Wilton Court. 2
These will provide lots of burdens on us because it’s already a crowded neighborhood and the 3
street. 4
5
Let me say, ok, as a resident we support bringing the new neighbors but we can’t take on 6
additional parking on our street due to inadequate parking on the site and already crowded 7
conditions on our street. We support that either reduce the number of the units or increasing 8
the number of the unit for adults with developmental disabilities and people who don’t drive. 9
We need deed restrictions and enforcement to keep parking impact to a minimum. We also 10
want a bollard or other traffic mitigation measures to keep additional traffic from cutting 11
through Ventura. This is a huge problem and all of the developers and aide the project on the 12
pipeline for Ventura, including Wilton Court, will just [unintelligible] all of these cutting through 13
traffic. We hope to work together to make this project work but we do need you to – the City to 14
help improve the livability and [unintelligible] and the safe of Ventura. 15
16
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Pete Maresca. 17
18
[note -female:] [unintelligible – speaking from the audience] 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Ok. 1
2
Mr. Pete Maresca: Here. 3
4
Chair Lauing: Sorry if I didn’t get it quite right. 5
6
Mr. Maresca: That’s ok. People do a little different version all the time, I don’t get offended 7
easily that is. Good evening Commissioners, my name is Pete Maresca, I’m 26-years old, I was 8
born and raised here in Palo Alto and I have autism. I’m speaking for myself and 100s of other 9
in Palo Alto who are developmentally disabled. We are part of the community and we need 10
affordable housing close to VTA transit. I’ve been so lucky because I was blessed to get in 11
extremely low-income studio in Mountain View. And my parents who have been supporting me 12
for about a couple years but many are not so lucky, unfortunately. The people I speak for live 13
on extremely low incomes, even those like me that have part-time jobs in local businesses. All 14
our parents do as much as they can to house use right now and to provide for the future. But 15
even my parents won’t be able to do that forever and many young adults’ parents can’t afford 16
to help them now. Having my own place has a big step for me and is allowing me with the 17
support of my community from the San Andreas Regional Center Abilities United who I am the 18
ambassador for, and Housing Choices who I’m here with Jan Stokley, to work towards 19
independent living now and for the future when my parents won’t be around. We need a lot 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
more affordable housing, especially for low-income people in Palo Alto. So, I am asking you to 1
vote yes, like the sticker on my chest for housing for the extremely low income developmentally 2
disabled and last but not least please vote yes to Wilton Court. Thank you so much. 3
4
Chair Lauing: Thank you so much. Next up is Linnea Wickstrom followed by Arthur Keller. 5
6
Ms. Linnea Wickstrom: In case you hadn’t guessed, Pete is my son. I’m Liana Wickstrom, a 50-7
year old resident of Palo Alto and one of the [unintelligible] aging parents. I’m here to ask that 8
you recommend the application of the AH zoning overlay to Palo Alto’s Wilton Parcel. You 9
already know the facts about the conformance of PAH’s proposal to the Affordable Housing 10
Ordinance, the stated direction of the City, and the parking and traffic studies. I’m going to 11
belabor one point. I see that parking at developmentally disabled complex built for 12
developmentally disabled several times a week at all different times of day, .3 is more than 13
sufficient parking. 14
15
As I’ve said here at the City Council on more than on occasion the need for ELI housing for the 16
developmentally and intellectually disabled is acute and growing. Palo Alto parents and their 17
children need housing starts now to start to meet that need. My son was lucky to get a studio in 18
Mountain View and I hope to build in flexibility for myself and for him in the future by building 19
an ADU but most parents of children like my son do not have that good fortune. EIL units are 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
few and far between and many parents do not have the financial resources to provide 1
alternatives. It's also especially important for parents to find housing in their children’s own 2
communities where they have the familiarity to shop and work and the access to support 3
services required to achieve a level of independent living. And that transition time for the 4
disabled can take a long time. 5
6
Palo Alto in the past was an inclusive community with many forms of affordable housing. Let’s 7
each do what we can to build toward that again. Let’s start more housing for all those we 8
depend on and for those who depend on us. I look forward to your yes vote to apply the AH 9
Zoning Ordinance to Wilton Court. Thank you. 10
11
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Arthur Keller followed by Terry Holzmer. 12
13
Mr. Arthur Keller: Commissioners, so a couple things I heard about this from prior speakers. 14
First of all, I haven’t heard anybody speak against this project. The only question is the impact 15
of this project on the surrounding neighborhood. I heard the representative from Palo Alto 16
Housing Corp say that they have no intention to impact parking on Wilton but it’s not clear that 17
they have taken specific actions to preclude that impact. I also heard that there are 400 adults 18
with developmental and intellectual disabilities in Palo Alto and yet, this project is only 19
providing a small percent, namely about a quarter of its units are for developmentally disabled. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
And it seems to me that we have an opportunity for a win, win, win. We have an opportunity to 1
increase the ratio of the developmentally disabled and intellectually disabled who can live at 2
this property. They have – I think it’s universally agreed that they have less need for parking. 3
There’s a certain amount of parking that’s provided on the site, it’s not going to change, we’re 4
not going to build a parking puzzle structure or such like that because we know that from the 5
experience of Mayfield Place that they don’t work, people don’t park at them. Instead on 6
Mayfield Place, people are parking actually at the Mayfield playing fields parking lot instead. Go 7
check it out, you’ll find out. So, I think that what we need to do is think about how to structure 8
this in such a way that it fits in with the neighborhood and does not impact the issues of 9
parking. So, I support the request to the neighborhood to increase the ratio of developmentally 10
disabled and intellectual disabled living at this property. I support the proposals from the 11
neighborhood to address cut through traffic and address related issued that they are being 12
really clear and corporative with the Palo Alto Housing Corp in terms of building. So, I think that 13
we can do that and finally one of the buildings on this site use to house in 1993 house a thing 14
called Future Family See Book Store and that was the first site at which we had internet 15
shopping cart for a business anywhere in the world. And I think it would be nice to – for Palo 16
Alto Housing Corp to acknowledge that history of – for the internet commerce – the electronic 17
commerce as part of this project. And I think that we can create through a collaboration and 18
that means Palo Alto Housing Corp listening to the neighborhood and the neighborhood 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
community from Ventura collaborating. That’s what we can do and I support that entirely and I 1
support this project once that is done, thank you. 2
3
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Terry Holzmer followed by Ken Joy. 4
5
Mr. Terry Holzmer: Thank you, Commissioners, very much for the opportunity to come and 6
speak to you tonight. I’m here representing not only myself tonight but as a member of the 7
Palo Alans for Sensible Zoning which supports wholeheartedly below market rate housing. And 8
it also supports Palo Alto residents who care about their neighborhood and their quality of life 9
in their neighborhood. We especially support below market rate housing because we believe it 10
is the most critical need in our City. Teachers, restaurant workers, landscapers, and especially 11
adults with development disabilities desperately need this housing and Wilton Court would be a 12
great location. But why can’t Wilton Court, for example, me a 100 percent below market rate 13
housing? I asked that question of all of you and I hope you’ll push for it in future projects except 14
not this one. However, beyond adding the housing which is important this project should not 15
burden the Ventura residents or neighborhood with overflow parking and traffic. Wilton Court 16
needs to be fully parked for its own residents so already clogged neighborhood streets don’t 17
become an impossible problem. Increasing the number of units for residents who don’t drive is 18
one alternative to consider. We encourage the idea of also adding other traffic and street 19
mitigations that would help not only the residents but particularly the neighborhood. Keep 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
vehicles from cutting through the Ventura neighborhood is already a problem if you don’t know 1
it. I travel through there myself every day which is one of the things that is occurring even now. 2
I sincerely hope that you’ll consider these measures and thoughts as both of them are 3
important and necessary; the BMR housing while at the same time minimizing the impacts on 4
the surrounding neighborhood. Thank you very much. 5
6
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Ken Joy followed by Todd Lewis. 7
8
Mr. Ken Joy: Good evening, I live 3-blocks away from this parcel in the Ventura neighborhood 9
and I’m here tonight to ask you to approve the overlay. I know that fellow neighbors of mine 10
who live on Wilton are concerned about the impacts of the parking. I’m confident that Palo Alto 11
Housing will work with us to make sure that that’s not a huge problem. Thank you for your 12
attention to this. 13
14
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Todd Lewis and then L. David Barron. 15
16
Mr. Todd Lewis: Good evening, thank you very much. I own two 4-plexes across the street from 17
this project next to the Hong Kong Restaurant. I hope you’ve all been over in that neighborhood 18
and the property owner who owns the other two 4-plexes right next door to the proposed 19
project called me and asked me to make a couple comments on his behalf. We have similar 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
concerns. We have 16-units there between us and about 14 or 15 of those are two working 1
people in each apartment. We provide parking on site for one car, everybody else has to find 2
parking. The other single-family homes all the way down Wilton from El Camino Real all the way 3
Park Boulevard also have lots of parking issues, usually parking one car in their driveway and 4
another car on the street. It creates a lot – and then they have some kids at home after 5
graduating from college, I know a little bit about that, and it just adds to a tremendous parking 6
problem. Now on top of that is the Hong Kong Restaurant, a very successful Chinese restaurant. 7
Every day at lunch and every night at dinner, very busy and their employees need to park and 8
there is no parking nearby. We have a huge parking issue in that neighborhood. 9
10
Now first thing I want to say and I want to say on behalf of John Mod [note-spelling], the other 11
property owner across the street, we support the idea of affordable housing, we support 12
housing for the developmentally disabled, but we have two big problems with this project. One 13
you’re proposing – the Housing Corporation is proposing 41 spaces for 65 units. The reality is 14
that most people will own cars and many people will have visitors for a variety of reasons. 15
Parents coming to visit their developmentally disabled children, caregivers, visitors to the other 16
residents as well. Forty-one spaces is way under parked for that size property. A bigger problem 17
for us at – next to this project is I hope you all can imagine what a 48-foot structure looks like 18
on El Camino. There is nothing on El Camino from Arastradero Road all the way to the edge of 19
Page Mill anywhere that has 4-stories and 48-feet. It’s a huge, huge project in terms of height 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and density on less than a half an acre of a lot. It’s a 20,000-foot lot, it’s a 41,000-foot building, 1
it’s a very, very big structure and it’s right next to these apartment dwellers. And it’s going to 2
take their light away, it’s going to take their views, it’s going to be very imposing for everybody 3
in that area and a lot of impact on that local community right there. I propose, and I know other 4
people in the Wilton area propose, lower that count. Keep the developmentally disabled units 5
at 16, that’s great, lower the affordable housing component from 65 down to maybe 41 or 42 6
and take it down from 4-stories to 3-stories. Make it blend in with the El Camino community 7
and make it less impactful on the community around Wilton Avenue. Thank you. 8
9
Chair Lauing: Ok thank you. L. David Baron followed by Kelsey Banes. 10
11
Mr. L. David Barron: Good evening Commission, I’m David Barron, I’m a Palo Alto resident. I just 12
want to urge you to support the zoning overlay. Palo Alto and the entire Bay Area needs more 13
dense housing throughout the Bay Area of all types. And this is one place – it’s one project, we 14
need many more but I urge you to support this one. Thank you. 15
16
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Kelsey Bane – is it Banes? 17
18
Ms. Kelsey Banes: Banes, yes. Hi, my name is Kelsey Banes, I am a phycologist at the Palo Alto 19
VA, and I’m here tonight as a resident of Palo Alto and not in my official VA capacity. So, I want 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
to start by saying that homelessness is a solvable problem and the solution to homelessness is 1
housing. I strongly support rezoning this property and given its proximity to transit I wish this 2
property could have been more ambitious and had even more units. And I would advise the 3
Commission that there are other ways to regulate parking other than limiting housing. Most 4
people in this room probably depend on a car and a car is a big part of your life but I work with 5
low-income people and very low-income people and for them, a car is a luxury; a home should 6
not be a luxury. So, I think when we have these opportunities to build 100 percent affordable 7
housing we should take advantage of them and build housing units that maybe don’t have a 8
parking spot and think about other ways to regulate parking like paid parking or I know 9
downtown we have a residential permit system that seems to be working well. But if parking 10
becomes a problem then we can deal with that problem but right now we have a housing 11
problem and I would like to deal with the housing problem by building more housing units. 12
13
And then I can just speak about myself personally because there have been several points 14
made about all of these units should be BMR or we need to lower the income threshold. And I’ll 15
just say that I am a phycologist, I’m a federal employee, I’m paid as a GS-13 and my older 16
colleagues who were paid at the same pay scale where able to buy homes here and raise their 17
families in Palo Alto. And I am not even able to afford my own 1-bedroom apartment so I would 18
just encourage you to think about increasing the number of units overall is a good thing. So, we 19
want to build more units and be creative about the ways that we do that in order to get people 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
into housing. Because there are a lot of people who are really suffering and struggling and a 1
solution to the housing crisis exist and it involves eliminating housing scarcity and creating 2
abundant housing for all people. Thank you. 3
4
Chair Lauing: Thank you. That’s the last speaker card that I have for this agenda item. Just 5
double checking with (interrupted) 6
7
Mr. Bob Moss: (speaking from the audience) I turned a card in, [unintelligible]? 8
9
Chair Lauing: Let’s see if it got mixed with Number Three. 10
11
Vice-Chair Monk: Does he want to come on up? Do you want him to come up? 12
13
Chair Lauing: Just come up and identify yourself and we’ll fill in with the card. 14
15
Mr. Moss: I’ll give you card at (interrupted) 16
17
Chair Lauing: Yeah, that’s great. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Moss: Strange, I don’t know how it got lost. I’m one of the people that created the CN Zone 1
and the El Camino Design Guidelines. And this proposal violates both of them so I urge you to 2
reject them as currently proposed. Let me give you some reasons, the CN Zone is intended to 3
create and maintain neighborhood shopping areas primarily accommodating retail sales. The 4
CN District does not permit residential-only development. That was our intent, we do – did not 5
want high density. The CN Zone only always a height of 35-feet within 150-feet of residential 6
which identifies this site. So, this proposal violates the Comprehensive Plan, Zoning Ordinance, 7
and the intent of both the CN Zone and the El Camino Design Guidelines. A quote from the 8
Comprehensive Plan policy that it violates, for example, Policy L-3.1, ensure new or remolded 9
structures are compatible with the neighborhood adjacent structures. This would be much 10
larger, taller than anything within blocks, it is not compatible. Preserve ground floor retail and 11
limit the displacement of existing retail from neighborhood centers and explore possibilities to 12
expand retail. This eliminates the existing retail. Identify and implement strategies to increase 13
housing density and diversity including mixed-use and a range of uses. Mixed-use, not pure 14
residential which this project is. Allow increased residential densities a mixed-use development 15
only where adequate services and amenities are – and including roadway capacity are available. 16
El Camino is congested now and it’s getting worse. This project should be scaled down, meet 17
the – oh the FAR is over 2 which a maximum density normally allowed to be .5. It should be 18
scaled down to a height no more than 35-feet and a FAR of no more than .5 and then you can 19
give some bonuses because it’s all BMR units which get the FAR up to .7 or .8 which would still 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
be acceptable. But this project is completely incompatible with everything along El Camino on 1
both sides for blocks if not miles. It violates the Zoning Ordinance, it violates the 2
Comprehensive Plan policies, it violates the intent of the El Camino Design Guidelines, and the 3
CN Zone. It is inappropriate and should not be approved. 4
5
Chair Lauing: Ok, thank you very much. Did you have a speaker card? 6
7
[note- male:] [unintelligible -speaking from the audience] 8
9
Chair Lauing: Ok just fill out a card. 10
11
Mr. Yunshow Wong: Good evening [unintelligible], I’m Yunshow Wong from – I live in Palo Alto 12
Wilton Avenue so I own the property. I see we have some (interrupted) 13
14
Chair Lauing: Stand close to the mic, please. 15
16
Mr. Wong: Oh ok, I have a little bit concern about this project, I think two issues. One is in such 17
a spot and we – that kind of 65-unit I – it probably brings up more intensity for this 18
neighborhood. Second, I think that it is the parking space, right now even the parking in that 19
area is very intensive [unintelligible] as people have pointed out. There’s one restaurant is very 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
successful. It’s really – during daytimes its really all occupied of the street but now you’ve – 1
we’ve provided this kind of high intense unit probably the parking becomes a big issue. So 2
that’s the reason I suggest reconsider this stuff and think about how to reduce the unit or even 3
to increase the parking space then to improve this kind of stuff. Ok, thank you. 4
5
Chair Lauing: Ok thank you. So that concludes the public comment, that part of the hearing is 6
closed and we’ll now move to Commissioner comments which can include asking questions of 7
the applicant so, Commissioner Gardias. 8
9
Chair Lauing: Rebuttal – I mean we typically give – I don’t know if the applicant has an interest 10
in rebuttal but we typically allow a 3-minute rebuttal I believe. 11
12
Chair Lauing: If you’d like to speak for 3-minutes now based on comments that you’ve heard 13
you can speak, otherwise you address questions from the Commission. It’s up to you. 14
15
Ms. Klein: No, I don’t have any comments to say. 16
17
Chair Lauing: Ok, great. Commissioner Gardias, you’re on. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Gardias: So, thank you very much for presenting to us, thank you very much for 1
the Palo Alto residents and to everybody else who attends this meeting. We welcome you here 2
and thank you very much for your comments. So, I have a couple of questions, I will start with 3
the big one because that was a subject of our conversations when we first looked at this 4
project. Our understanding was that this project would be aiming at 80 percent of adjusted 5
medium income but from this -- what you’re saying and this is what I read on some emails, it is 6
going to be between 30 and 60 percent of AMI and I think this change totally my understanding 7
and perception about this project. So, I mean first of all, I just want to tell you that it pleases me 8
very much because I think about this as a great achievement and I hope that it will become a 9
model for further development. I would be also interested to see the financial numbers so if 10
time allows when the dust settles maybe you can submit to this Commission and to the Staff 11
the calculations how you arrived with such – with – how you were able to building in such a 12
desirable area a high-cost structure that’s going to house that many people with the low 13
income and how you were financing this. So, I would be very interested myself and I hope that 14
my colleagues would be interested in this as well. And so also from the perspective of the 15
competitive market, I think that just setting aside all the different emotions about parking, 16
about against or for this project, I think that from the perspective of just pure competition it’s a 17
great achievement. So, congratulations, however, you did this I’d be very interested just to 18
learn from it so that’s number one. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Number two I’d like to understand more about parking. You heard comments about the – of 1
the concerned neighbors of your project and I’d like to understand what is the agreement with 2
the Ventura residents? And I know that Becky Sanders, the name you mentioned, of -- was 3
actively involved. She represents many Ventura inhabitants so I’d like to understand what was – 4
she could not attend this meeting as I can see tonight. So, I’d like to understand was there any 5
agreement, was there any handshake in terms of the parking mitigation, in terms of what will 6
you do in the future if your project will truly impact residents and neighbors as some expressed 7
their concerns of. 8
9
Ms. Klein: So, there is no formal agreement at all. We are still in conversations with them about 10
parking and traffic and safety so there’s nothing, no agreement. 11
12
Commissioner Gardias: So – and just going back to the first item, so I understand that this is a 13
margin of 30 to 60 – this was up [unintelligible] from the higher strata of our society. So, is 14
there – this 30 to 60 percent of AMI is written somewhere as part of the commitment or of the 15
policy – or the policy of this building, is this right? I just want to make sure that (interrupted) 16
17
Ms. Klein: That’s what – we’re – you know we’re still in the process of planning it all but that’s 18
what the population that we’re targeting and that’s what we see in our financials. So, I don’t 19
know if I understand your question. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Gardias: Yeah so, my question was that I was – just I was hoping that my surprise 2
– positive surprise is going to last forever, that’s where my hope goes and then pretty much it’s 3
not going to be just a temporary promise that will be set aside. That pretty much you will stick 4
with this promise and pretty much it will be truly a policy for, I don’t know, at least the life cycle 5
of this building. 6
7
Ms. Klein: Yes, so in our deed for the property it’s going to say it targets certain – you know this 8
population that earns between 30 and 60 percent AMI and then the building is subject to 9
regulatory oversight to make sure that all of our residents fall within those guidelines. And all of 10
our properties have to fall within those guidelines and every year our residents have to be 11
recertified to make sure that they are in the income guidelines that are specified in the 12
underlying agreement for the properties. 13
14
Commissioner Gardias: Very good, I think that this answers my question perfectly because 15
there’s a legal (interrupted) 16
17
Ms. Klein: Yeah there’s a (interrupted) 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Gardias: ... rate thank you very much. If you want to just say something else just 1
– no? Ok because I have another question I have to Director Lait if I may, so thank you very 2
much for responding. Is it ok if I (interrupted) 3
4
Chair Lauing: Continue. 5
6
Commissioner Gardias: So, we had this discussion – thank you, ma’am. 7
8
Ms. Klein: Can I sit down? 9
10
Commissioner Gardias: Yes, please. 11
12
Ms. Klein: Ok, thank you. 13
14
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. So, we had this conversation about the distance and – from 15
the adjacent properties and we had this discussion. I don’t recall that we have ever had a 16
conclusion. I – on the second meeting and then I remember that your response was that there 17
is an error type or typo in the code because you were suspecting that the distance must be 18
shorter than it’s in this very specified paragraph of the code. However, the distance from a 19
residential neighborhood and the height is – appears in five different places of the code. So, if 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
you go through all those places then you will see there is a consistency and indeed in one of 1
those places there was a typo. And I think that this typo was part of our discussion but it 2
shouldn’t be because if you go through the entire code you understand that the language is 3
very clear. So, I just want to bring up that point that was brought up I think by Arthur Keller or 4
somebody else about the distance from the – and the height of the mass – the building mass 5
from the adjacent neighborhood. Is it compliant with the code or it’s not compliant with the 6
code? 7
8
Mr. Owen: I can take that, so to your question about the confusion in the discussion when we 9
were drafting the ordinance, the current CN Zoning District has a transitional height limit. So, 10
you have a 35-foot height restriction when you are within 150-feet of a low density or multi-11
family density zone district boundary. And so, with the AH Combining District, we changed it 12
from the district boundary to the property line of a zoned property. So, in effect what that does 13
is in this instance, for example, is it says the transition height standard applies from 150-feet 14
from the adjacent property rather than the zone boundary. The zone boundary runs right down 15
the middle for example of the alleyway, so it pushes it back about 15-feet. But it’s still a 16
transitional height standard it’s just less restrictive over the course of the entire site because 17
under the existing CN Zoning District Standards virtually all of the site would under that 35-foot 18
transitional height standard as it currently stands. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Gardias: Yes, I don’t think that this was the entire property, right? This was part 1
of the property right so I don’t recall this when we changed this, so if you could just either 2
prove me wrong because I don’t remember that this was concluded. So, if you could just 3
(interrupted) 4
5
Mr. Lait: Yeah City Council adopted the standard that Graham is referring too and that’s 6
included in the ordinance that the Commission has. The Affordable Housing Overlay has its own 7
set of development standards including the different standard for transitional height and in the 8
course of reviewing this project will be ensuring compliance with that standard. 9
10
Commissioner Gardias: With the standard of 50-feet or 150-feet? 11
12
Mr. Lait: With the Affordable Housing Overlay standard, right. 13
14
Commissioner Gardias: Ok thank you very much. Thanks. 15
16
Chair Lauing: Ok other comments? Commissioner Waldfogel. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Waldfogel: Looks like we’re going in order. Thanks, everybody for the 1
presentations and the public comments. I got a couple questions for Palo Alto Housing and a 2
couple questions for Staff. I’m sorry to ask you to get up again. 3
4
Ms. Klein: It’s ok. 5
6
Commissioner Waldfogel: Back into the – back to the hot seat except there’s no seat. I just want 7
to follow on a question that my colleague asked about working with Ventura neighbors. Could 8
you say something about the process that you’ve undertaken in working with Ventura? I mean 9
could you give me an example of any changes you’ve made in the project as a result of 10
discussions with them or things you might discuss or compromise over. 11
12
Ms. Klein: Well to be totally honest with you the – I was not part of the meetings that took 13
place last summer when they were talking about in the initial phases of the design and the 14
concept of the project. We had a meeting in July so where the neighbors – where we talked 15
again about the issues and we’re going to be meeting again in October. Hopefully on October 16
7th to talk more about the issues and to try and – I was not part of the June 25th meeting and 17
this will be the first meeting that I’m apart of. So, I really can’t speak to what the process was 18
before. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah so what is the process going forward? I mean is there an 1
attempt to negotiate with them or are there things you might compromise over? I mean I’m 2
just trying to understand what your intent it. 3
4
Ms. Klein: Sure, sure, there’s things that we can definitely compromise over. So, we might be 5
able to add some extra parking spaces if we need too, so we’re looking at that. And you know 6
things that – putting bollards on the street to prevent the cut through, we have no control over 7
that. I mean that’s a City street, you would have control over that. 8
9
Commissioner Waldfogel: I’ll ask Staff about that. 10
11
Ms. Klein: Yeah you can ask Staff about that but certainly if they want to try and have parking 12
permits on the street to try and cut down on some of the street parking. I know that I also live 13
in Palo Alto and my own street we had a lot of parking issues, neighbors from other areas 14
where parking on our street so we had to organize ourselves and sign a petition. And then go 15
and submit it to the City. And now we have parking permits and that’s really cut down the 16
problem. So, we’d be happy to work with them in that kind of an issue. 17
18
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah well, I think what I – I’m not so much looking for specifics as 19
just an intent that your intent is to work with them because that’s really all that we can ask for. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ms. Klein: Our intent is for sure to work with them, for sure to work with them. 2
3
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok that’s really important. Second question, since – I mean I 4
understand that we have the – this is completely BMR project which is fantastic but 5
(interrupted) 6
7
Ms. Klein: You know it’s not a – BMR is (interrupted) 8
9
Commissioner Waldfogel: Well 30 to 60 percent. 10
11
Ms. Klein: Right it’s affordable housing. 12
13
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok it's affordable… so what do you mean by affordable housing? 14
15
Ms. Klein: Its different than below market rate, so a below market rate is usually in a market 16
rate building and there are a few apartments that are set aside where the rents are at a 17
reduced rate and this is all rents are at a reduced rate. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Waldfogel: Right, right, no I – right but the question I wanted to ask you is that 1
there’s also this intent – we’ve had a lot of discussion about the developmentally disabled 2
community (interrupted) 3
4
Ms. Klein: Yes. 5
6
Commissioner Waldfogel: And about the intent to create units for the developmental dis – I’m 7
having trouble pronouncing this. 8
9
Ms. Klein: Yeah, it’s a tongue twister. 10
11
Commissioner Waldfogel: And the question is that a formal deed restriction or is this just an 12
intent – I mean again since we’re bringing this up tonight I want to know what the intent is. 13
14
Ms. Klein: I would probably – I would think that there would be some sort of development 15
agreement between the City and Palo Alto Housing that those units would be set aside for 16
adults who – and there would be a restriction for who those units could be rented too. 17
18
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok but the point is that’s something that will be captured 19
somewhere and written down. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ms. Klein: Right. 2
3
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah ok that’s just not something that we’ve seen in our material. 4
Ok, that’s great, thank you, those clarifications are important. We also heard some concerns – 5
so relative to that group of the developmentally disabled units, we heard some concerns from 6
residents about caregivers, trips parking, etc. etc. and just do you have a sense for that 7
community, what the caregiver load is? I mean again I just want to understand what we’re 8
talking about tonight. 9
10
Ms. Klein: I think Jan can probably better answer that question than I can. 11
12
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok that’s great. 13
14
Ms. Stokley: I should have spoken to the parking issue when I talked, sorry. 15
16
Commissioner Waldfogel: Well I’m not asking a parking question right now. 17
18
Ms. Stokley: Because of the studio size of the apartments they’ll be occupied by very 19
independent people like some of the residents of 1585 Studios that you met tonight. These are 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
folks who do not have a driver license, do not drive but they’re using public transit. They are 1
working at Trader Joes, Levi Stadium, Safeway, they are out and about and very independent. 2
They have an independent living skills worker but often times they’re out doing things with the 3
worker. It’s not like they have a caregiver who assisting them with the activities of daily living 4
(interrupted) 5
6
Commissioner Waldfogel: No that’s [unintelligible](interrupted) 7
8
Ms. Stokley: Whereas with the 2 or 3-bedroom unit we’d be trying to place people, who do 9
need living caregivers. But because of the studio nature of the units, these are going to be 10
occupied by people who don’t need a lot of support with the activities of daily living so it will be 11
a very low ratio. At 1585 Studios we’ve invited the neighborhood association to come and visit. 12
We have 26 studio apartments for developmentally disabled, one property manager unit, there 13
are 10 parking spaces, two are ADA for the two units that are occupied by people who use 14
wheelchairs, two are reserved for property manager and maintenance and the other six are just 15
available for parents and independent living skills workers. And I go there all the time and 16
we’ve never had a problem, so again because it’s studios these are not likely to be residents 17
who are intensive caregiving needs because they wouldn’t be living in a studio. I hope that 18
helps and again I just want to renew my invitation to Palo Alto Housing and the neighborhood 19
association. We’d love to host a visit at that property where they are studio apartments so they 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
can talk to residents and families and other people about the reality of the parking. It just 1
hasn’t been a problem. 2
3
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok I’m sorry I didn’t ask a parking question and you gave me a long 4
parking answer so – but that’s great. Thank you. 5
6
Ms. Stokley: The caregiver was – I guess I jumped to the parking question. 7
8
Commissioner Waldfogel: No, no that’s not the question that I asked at all, I was just asking 9
about caregivers and your answer is that these units will – that the occupants of these units 10
generally will not require caregivers. 11
12
Ms. Stokley: Right because they’re studios. 13
14
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok so that’s – yeah. Ok so then a following question to that is so what 15
would the effect on this project be of – we’ve heard of at least one suggestion to increase the 16
percentage of development disabled units. So, what would be the effect of taking it from I think 17
its 25 percent to 50 percent? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ms. Stokley: I can answer that one so as a result of changes in federal regulations the services 1
that support people to live in the community are from the State of California what the federal 2
match under the Home and Community Bay Services Waiver. And now we’re required to 3
integrate people into typical community housing and we're not supposed to be seeking set-4
asides of more than 25 percent of the units. 5
6
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok great again that was not something that was in any of our 7
information Packets, great. Ok let me just switch, this is again a Palo Alto Housing question, we 8
heard from you’re – you gave a great story about a single mom, we also heard from a single 9
mom, the units here may or may not lend themselves to single moms. What’s your thinking on 10
that? Do you expect that they will be serving any single moms in this format? I mean what’s 11
your expectation? 12
13
Ms. Klein: Georgina do you want to come up and – so Georgina is in charge of our property 14
management and she can probably answer this question better than I can. 15
16
Ms. Georgina Mascarenhas: So typically, in our studios and 1-bedrooms, we generally have one 17
person’s households so we are thinking that they’d probably be mostly minimum wage 18
workers. Maybe food servers, baggers, cashiers from Trader Joes and the neighboring 19
community. The studios – I don’t think we have any studios at the moment that are occupied by 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
more than one person. The 1-bedrooms may very well be occupied by a single parent and a 1
child. The maximum occupancy on a 1-bedroom is three people so it could be a single parent 2
with two little kids. 3
4
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok so just to that point did you do any design studies looking at 5
some 1-bedrooms so that we are serving some moms? 6
7
Ms. Klein: Yeah so three of the units in the building right now are 1-bedroom units. Could you 8
hear me? Three of the units in the building are 1-bedroom. They’re the corner – they’re right at 9
the corner of El Camino and Wilton and on the ground floor is where our – is where an office 10
would be. 11
12
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok that’s my bad, I missed those three units in looking at the plan. 13
Ok and then one final question for Staff which is we’ve heard a couple questions about a 48-14
foot high building. So, is your intent – I mean will the ARB do a light study on that 2-story 15
building to the northeast of this parcel? I mean it looks like they’ll lose some daylight so what’s 16
– who’s job will it be to just do that study? 17
18
Mr. Owen: I think if the ARB requested or if we receive a comment and it sounds as though we 19
have we’ll take that into consideration. The building is 44-feet in total height, the parapet wall 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
is adding additional two but of course, it adds a shadow. In terms of – excuse me – that sort of 1
analysis is usually done as a component of CEQA and the affordable housing exemption that 2
we’ve identified as being applicable for this project doesn’t require a light study. So, I can’t say 3
that we will necessarily but coming out of the ARB if that’s a thing that the ARB takes and says 4
that they want to see then we’ll get it. 5
6
Commissioner Waldfogel: Great, ok that’s all that I have for now. 7
8
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Monk [note- Vice-Chair Monk]. 9
10
Vice-Chair Monk: You can take a seat for now. 11
12
Ms. Klein: Oh, thank you. 13
14
Vice-Chair Monk: I just want to acknowledge and thank – I’m counting roughly 25 community 15
members that came out tonight on this very critical and important issue. We also received over 16
30 letters in support. Everyone that spoke tonight except for one was not supportive and there 17
were 15 speakers at least tonight so clearly, this community has great support for housing, 18
particularly for the underserved, the developmentally disabled. And I appreciate Jan coming out 19
from Housing Choices and calling our attention to the 25 percent allocation. And also 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
addressing some of the additional concern’s community members had in regards to caregivers 1
and potential traffic impacts. So, I think you answered that for us and I’m satisfied that the 2
parking requirement set forth in our Affordable Housing Overlay that have a reduced parking 3
requirement for these units designated for the developmentally disabled is accurate. And I 4
don’t think that we need to increase parking at all based on – I think the ordinance is drafted in 5
a way that will sufficiently meet the parking demand. 6
7
We also heard from Mr. Klein I believe at Palo Alto Housing and she pointed out the many 8
projects that exist throughout the community and in fact, just within a few blocks of here, 9
there’s several housing projects that their design, construction, residents, their inhabitants, 10
they integrate seamlessly in the community. I would have never even known that these were 11
100 percent or a percent of affordable housing just right around this vicinity here. So, I think 12
this is an important population, it promotes an economically diverse population, it’s an 13
important market that we need to serve and it promotes a diverse and inclusive Palo Alto. So, I 14
wholeheartedly support the objectives of applying the Affordable Housing Combining District in 15
this instance. 16
17
When we heard from a Kelsey earlier who was the phycologist with the VA, thank you for 18
coming out tonight. You said something that really resonated and that’s that housing is not a 19
luxury. And I think that here it’s easy to view housing as a luxury because of the cost and what 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
we just look in our immediate vicinity but we are seeing people that are displaced, people that 1
are homeless, people that have to travel long distances to get their care, people that need to be 2
in close proximity for our services that we’re looking towards with regards to teachers and 3
landscape folks and restaurant workers. So, I think that those folks do need to have places to 4
live near where they work. I don’t think we should be treating housing as a luxury and we’re far 5
behind on our housing production as a state. The whole state is beyond, this is not a Palo Alto 6
issue, this is a state-wide housing crisis that we are in. We are seeing people living on the 7
streets in numbers that just keep growing so we do need to do our part to address that 8
problem. We have a commitment that our Council agreed to build 3,500 units per year or more, 9
well that comes out to 300 units on average till 2020. We’re severely behind on that 10
production, we haven’t produced anything that I’m aware of in the last 2-years towards that 11
figure. We’ve approved on other projects that should yield 60 units but they haven’t broken 12
ground on that and that’s been over a year so we’re severely behind with our own obligations. 13
14
Chair Lauing: Is this a question? 15
16
Vice-Chair Monk: There are programs and policies that were identified in here, about 20 of 17
them that support the Comprehensive Plan so I think what this project is – the way that it’s 18
been presented to us it does support our objectives and our Comprehensive Plan. We’ve also 19
had an interesting history with the Affordable Housing Ordinance that I don’t need to go into 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
here but needless to say, this is an ordinance that was passed by Council and it’s one that I’ve 1
supported all along. And I’m happy to have the privilege of addressing the applicability of it to 2
this project at Wilton Court. I have a general question for the applicant but it’s not germane to 3
this issue so you can sit down, don’t worry about it. 4
5
Ms. Klein: [off mic] I’m happy to answer it. 6
7
Vice-Chair Monk: I was just curious when the last project was built in Palo Alto by your 8
organization. 9
10
Ms. Klein: So, our last project was completed in 2011 and that is the Tree House project on 11
Arastradero and it was occupied in the beginning of 2012 so 6-years. 12
13
Vice-Chair Monk: It is typically that there would be a 6-year gap between projects that you’re 14
building in Palo Alto? I don’t know the history or the general cadence of projects. 15
16
Ms. Klein: Well I’d like to say that I hope we don’t have to wait that long again to do our next 17
one. So, there’s just such a crisis here and we need to address it. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Monk: And then for Staff, we heard – thank you very much. So, Staff question, we 1
heard a little bit about some of the surrounding homes. Are these for the majority single-family 2
homes? 3
4
Mr. Owen: Let me go back to the Zoning Map because I think its illustrative of – for that 5
question. So, here’s the Zoning Map, so to the northwest – Wilton Court, by the way, is at the 6
cross axis right there next to the – next to El Camino Real or intersection of the El Camino Real. 7
You have – on that one block you have several different zoning districts, CN which is 8
predominately commercial in this section, RM-30 which is your multi-family residences so the 9
apartment buildings, [and] then you have R-2 which is two-family residences are allowed. I 10
think that those two units are actually single-family homes and then everything else to the 11
north of it is single-family. 12
13
Vice-Chair Monk: So, is the majority single-family? 14
15
Mr. Owen: Once you’re in Ventura proper, yes but there is that kind of band of Rm-30 when its 16
close to the – when it’s close to El Camino. 17
18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Monk: How would you explain the current density with occupancy with street 1
parking in that area? Is it the result of the single-family residences? Is It because apartment 2
buildings are under parked as we heard from one of the speakers tonight? 3
4
Mr. Owen: Yeah in terms of which cars are attributed to which residents, I couldn’t say but I’ve 5
been the site many, many times and there are parked cars along the street and that extends all 6
the way up the block of Wilton Avenue. So certainly, some of them (interrupted) 7
8
Vice-Chair Monk: And that’s within the daytime hours you’re referring to? 9
10
Mr. Owen: Yeah always because I’m not going out there at night. 11
12
Vice-Chair Monk: You’ve gone out there on the evening and on the weekends? 13
14
Mr. Owen: No, no, no. 15
16
Vice-Chair Monk: The reason why I’m asking is because I live downtown which is a very dense 17
area and where we have our RPP and there’s never a problem for me finding parking in the 18
evening or the weekends. And I wholeheartedly believe that our parking and traffic problems 19
are attributed to daytime workforce coming in where we triple our population every day. So, I 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
don’t think adding 60 new homes to our 67,000-resident total in Palo Alto is going to have an 1
impact to parking and traffic in our neighborhoods. What I – but I do understand that more 2
people are living at home. There are students that are – we have more people living in single-3
family homes than I think what was intended initially, especially in that Ventura neighborhood. 4
But those homes do have off-street parking requirements, do they not? 5
6
Mr. Owen: They do, absolutely, it’s two cars for each single-family house. 7
8
Vice-Chair Monk: So, I think the whole neighborhood needs to do their part to alleviate the 9
traffic or rather the parking issues in that neighborhood. Thank you. 10
11
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Riggs. 12
13
Commissioner Riggs: Thanks Staff, I appreciate the presentation. I have a question about the 14
process because you’re asking zoning question and we’re asking project questions back to you. 15
So, what’s the actual process going forward for the hypothetical project that we are saying 16
exists but we’re not deciding anything on, so I want some clarity on the process if that’s ok. 17
18
Mr. Owen: Sure, so the project is on file, we do have an architectural review application and the 19
rezoning on file. When we – I think the confusion may have been when we were doing the 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Affordable Housing Combining District we didn’t have a project. It was – we didn’t have 1
something on file in the City that we were actively reviewing. After the passage of the 2
Affordable Housing Combining Districts, Palo Alto Housing did submit their application this 3
spring to allow for the rezoning to happen or to be requested. So, we do have the rezoning 4
request as well as the architectural review. The PTC’s role is on the rezoning component. 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: I just need – but let’s get into the details then because a lot of the 7
questions that are asked fall within the Director’s discretion under the Affordable Housing 8
Combining District. So, then what is Staff’s intent to do when the project is ready to go forward 9
given that we’re going to move on the zoning now? What is – we’re going to move forward on 10
some type of recommendation on the zoning, what is the intent than with the project detail 11
which there’s a lot of wiggle room with some of these items? I think that’s where a lot of the 12
neighbors have asked some questions. What’s the intent there? 13
14
Mr. Owen: Right, that’s a good question, so the next step we’re asking for a recommendation 15
today on the zoning component which is the PTC’s purview. As to the architecture and site 16
planning and the project – the building project, that is under the purview of the Architectural 17
Review Board to make sure that the Affordable Housing Combing District standards that are the 18
development standards are applicable to the sites and that the zoning – that the site is 19
compliant with those standards. So, it’s a more technical detailed analysis that will be 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
performed by the Architectural Review Board at subsequent hearings. The first one is going to 1
be next week. 2
3
Commissioner Riggs: But that still didn’t deal with a couple of the concerns, not the building 4
massing concern but particularly the off-street/on-street parking dynamic; which again if it’s .75 5
per unit based on the combining district at discretion – as you’re all discretion, that’s a lot of 6
discretion. So, what (interrupted) 7
8
Mr. Owen: So yeah so, the ordinance allowing .75 per unit is the minimum that was established 9
by the Council when they passed the Affordable Housing District Ordinance so that is the 10
minimum requirement. So, in terms of parking above and beyond that minimum it – that’s what 11
the code requires so we’re as Staff not likely to support requiring additional parking above and 12
beyond the standard unless it’s truly warranted. 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: Well, we’re beating around the bush because the applicant has already 15
said something else right? 16
17
Mr. Lait: So, let me just offer some more comments. So tonight, we’re here to apply the 18
Affordable Housing Overlay to the property, that’s the question. Is it appropriate to do so in the 19
context of the Comprehensive Plan and for us we think that’s pretty straightforward question 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
to ask and have answered? Part of the project also requires going to the Architectural Review 1
Board as set forth in our code whereupon Staff is doing a comprehensive review of the project 2
to the development standards. We will present that to the Architectural Review Board, they’ll 3
review that analysis in context to the findings that they have to make and they forward a 4
recommendation on to the City Council. And the City Council will consider this overlay zone 5
combined with the Architectural Review Board aspect findings at once later this year. Does that 6
not get your question of when these issues are going to get solved? 7
8
Commissioner Riggs: It’s ok, I’ll just make a recommendation when we get to talk about the 9
motion. 10
11
Chair Lauing: I’ll just make a couple comments. I think to clarify some of the comments that 12
we’ve heard here as Assistant Director Lait just summarized, our purview is very narrow in this 13
regard. I mean we have an ordinance passed by Council and signed in May and it’s very concise 14
4-pages and that’s what we have to decide if that applies. So, there are things in there like the 15
Director may modify the standards based on findings from a parking study that fewer spaces 16
are needed. It doesn’t even say if more are needed but that’s what is says. So, there was a lot of 17
discussion in the February 14th and March 14th meetings here about various things that maybe 18
we should and look at things in neighborhood situations and not have one size fit all. There was 19
even a comment on a different subject at the last meeting that was kind of the same thing. We 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
can’t have everything fit. We can’t have one thing fit all neighborhoods but that’s what we have 1
right now so I’m very encouraged to hear that the dialog is continuing, that’s its very friendly, 2
that the good neighbor policy is in place and that just because we’re all good citizens we’re 3
going to find a way to address anything in advance of creating parking problems. That’s the only 4
way that you can get any flexibility because we only can apply this 4-page document, so I’m 5
encouraged by that. This Commission and certainly myself have been completely supportive of 6
affordable housing from the get-go and even before this overlay was in effect. So, this is exactly 7
the kind of high priority housing that we need in the City and I’m glad to have it come before 8
us. I was happier with 50 spaces instead of 41 but you can work that our with the neighbors and 9
the City. Commissioner Alcheck, did you have comments? 10
11
Commissioner Alcheck: Thank you. First, I’d like to just thank the applicant and Ms. Stockley. 12
13
Ms. Klein: (off mic) Oh Jan Stockley, Stokley. 14
15
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah has she left? Oh, there you are. Thank you for preparing this, I’m 16
assuming this is for tonight’s benefit. I am optimistic that the next time you prepare one of 17
these our City’s name will be in the last paragraph among the Cities that you believe have 18
provided leadership, local funding, City-owned land, and planning approvals for the projects 19
that help for the cause. I mean I am over – I’m so delighted to know that we have people in our 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
community that do this work and I hope that your presence tonight has at least given more 1
people the opportunity to be aware of this work that you do. 2
3
Ok, I made a few notes to share. I spend some time reviewing all of the project documents that 4
you provided us. I also spent a good deal of time looking at the Eagle Creek [note- Eagle Park] 5
project which I think actually is fairly – the Eagle Creek [note-Eagle Park] project which I think is 6
fairly similar. 7
8
Ms. Klein: Eagle Park. 9
10
Commissioner Alcheck: Eagle Park, excuse me, which I think it fairly similar. So, I – 11
Commissioner Gardias you mentioned financials, Eagle Creek [note -Eagle Park] based on the 12
information I was able to obtain during my research is approximately $500,000 a unit to build. 13
That was my understanding or close to $33 million on that project, you have 67 units, this is 14
rough math and they also have a mix. These are exceptionally expensive units, I would assume 15
that ours would be either – I mean considering that the cost of construction has gone up so 16
significantly in the last 18-months I’m afraid to know what financial costs will be. But that might 17
be a good place to start to look at their progress in Mountain View, just down the street 18
actually. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
I – look I’ll start from the end, I’m fully prepared to support a motion that would recommend 1
that City Council approve this rezoning classification and also find that this is exempt from 2
CEQA classification. The comment I would like to make in addition to that is that I would 3
encourage our Council when they review this project to consider the following. We heard 4
tonight and I believe we’re going to hear it again that new housing developments like this one 5
burden our community in certain ways. And I’m not – I don’t object to that concept, I think it’s 6
true, there will be consequences but I’m hopefully – my hope is that when Council reviews this 7
kind of project and others like it they consider a broader understanding of the burdens that 8
face our community. What does it mean to have a burden to have a community? I’m sort of 9
trying to get at a more macro level concept here. I think some of the questions that I felt were 10
very instructive from my review were questions like how does the housing storage effect our 11
community? How do the 1 to 2-hour commutes that take place every day in the Bay Area 12
burden our community? How does a housing storage, for example, burden our local retailers 13
and restaurateurs in their effort to Staff their businesses? How does a housing storage burden 14
our aging population in their effort to hire individuals to help them take care of their homes or 15
to help them take care of themselves? How does it – this is a big one, how does the housing 16
shortage burden our public and private schools in their effort to hire teachers? There are 17
burdens and I think the question that or I think what I would encourage our City Council to do is 18
to broaden that concept. We have – there’s a lot of discussions right now among Council 19
Members who are running and one of the suggestions was that we need to start footing the bill 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
instead of requiring our community too – our neighborhoods to foot the bill with respect to 1
parking for example. We are – it’s my sincere belief that we are footing the bill. I think if you ask 2
your local schools how difficult it is to hire new Staff they’ll tell you. Tonight, I thought it was 3
interesting that you used Trader Joe’s as an example of an employer. I don’t think that’s a 4
coincidence. I imagine if you ask Trader Joe’s they struggle to find locals to work in their space 5
who can afford to not commute the long commutes and this is the sort of thing that would help 6
them. 7
8
I think our Council should look very carefully when they’re reviewing this project at whether or 9
not they can squeeze a few more units in. I would agree with you – I would agree with the 10
sentiments shared tonight that there aren’t many buildings adjacent to this one that will look 11
much like this one. Those buildings are pretty old and built upon standards that we are working 12
hard to change. This AH Overlay as my fellow Commissioners know is designed to correct a 13
problem in the zoning which is that the CN Zone is not addressing our housing crisis and that’s 14
why we need to have an overlay to address the CN Zones inadequacy. It may not have been 15
inadequate when it was created but it’s inadequate now at meeting our needs. I think that was 16
made abundantly clear when Council created the AH Overlay as an opportunity. 17
18
I just want to make one more comment. I agree with the idea – I mean I would hate to suggest 19
that you spend any more money than you absolutely need. All dollars should go to the effort of 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
creating housing but I do think it’s a nice idea to acknowledge that the first online shopping cart 1
was located here. That was news to me and I think its ironic actually in some respects that the 2
device that is essentially made all brick and mortar retailers suffer started right here. Buts that’s 3
a different discussion but anyways that’s an interesting – maybe there could be a common 4
space called the fantasy something shopping cart or whatever. 5
6
Ok again I’ll conclude by reiterating, I (interrupted) 7
8
Chair Lauing: You don’t need too. 9
10
Commissioner Alcheck: It’s not about whether or not there are consequences that must be 11
entirely mitigated. I think the question is what are the other burdens that are created by not 12
approving a project like this and if we don’t approve a project like this what do we do to 13
address those other burdens? So that’s sort of my recommendation to Council when they 14
review the minutes of this discussion. 15
16
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Monk [note – Vice-Chair Monk]. 17
18
MOTION 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Monk: Based on what we’ve heard tonight and what I’ve stated earlier I’d like to 1
move the Staff report. 2
3
SECOND 4
5
Chair Lauing: Well I’ll second that and we can discuss it. Commissioner Monk [note-Vice-Chair 6
Monk] would you like to make any further comments? 7
8
Vice-Chair Monk: I just want to acknowledge the folks that came out and spoke candidly about 9
their concerns to the impact to their neighborhood. These are folks that have lived there that 10
are seeing their neighborhood impacted by general population growth. And of course, if there’s 11
construction being done it’s going to cause an impact and burden to your daily life. And I just 12
hope that there’s an understanding that we’re looking at something that’s a little bit bigger 13
here, something that’s got a little bit more important value and thank you for your 14
accommodation because I think this is a really important project that needs to get done to 15
house people over housing cars. Thank you. 16
17
Chair Lauing: And my second is that I do think it fits the overlay part of these districts and it is 18
consistent with a number of things in the Comp Plan as Staff has put forward. So other 19
comments? Commissioner Riggs. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Riggs: Well one of the things that – why I was asking this question for is I actually 2
was looking at the unit mix here. I think this project is over parked and I don’t see a vehicle to 3
have that or a way to have that discussion. It sounds like it’s going to ARC [note-ARB] etc. I’d 4
like to figure out a recommendation or some type of way to allow you to consider – it sounds 5
like Hexagon has provided some – I can’t remember if I read the parking analysis or whatever 6
Hexagon did. But I think there was a – if there’s a strong rational from a unit mix standpoint to 7
lower the parking standards particularly for the non – maybe special needs use or disabled 8
community uses then I would strongly recommend that be considered. It sounds like I have no 9
control on that going forward but I think that’s worth considering. I would recommend Council 10
have that dialog or whomever the next approving body that would have that dialog have it 11
because that could do in turn what Commissioner Alcheck is suggesting. Free up additional 12
spaces for units on the market so sorry, I didn’t realize we were not discussing – I was trying to 13
keep myself to questions earlier. I realize everyone else was discussing but (interrupted) 14
15
Chair Lauing: Well now’s the time for discussion. 16
17
Commissioner Riggs: I would like to see that happen. I don’t know if there’s a way to do that 18
Staff but that would be what I’d like to have happen. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Any other comments? Commissioner Gardias. 1
2
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. So just giving my last opportunity before the vote I would 3
like to just urge the applicant to get to the agreement with the Ventura neighborhood and it 4
would be really nice if by the time that you get to the presentation to the Council you stand 5
side by side to Becky Sanders or somebody else representing Ventura and you both speak. And 6
then pretty much just say that you came to the agreement and whatever the agreement is 7
which of course is not going to change our goal but I wish that you would presume this 8
opportunity. Thank you. 9
10
Ms. Klein: Nothing would make me happier so that’s my goal. 11
12
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. 13
14
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel. 15
16
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, I mean I can support this tonight really based on two things. 17
One this assurance that you’ll continue – that Palo Alto Housing will continue to work with the 18
neighborhood and the other is that for me the 25 percent developmentally disabled 19
component along with the testimony that these are independent adults makes the parking ratio 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
in this work. So, I’m actually happy to see those components come together in a way that I 1
believe will work for the project and for the community. 2
3
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Alcheck. 4
5
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, I just – I want to – look this is why it’s so valuable to have a 6
Commissioner who is essentially an expert on these items; parking, traffic, etc. And I think that 7
it would be prudent and I would support it if that – I mean if you’re looking for broader 8
Commission support I would think it’s – there – I can think of no better reason why the City 9
Council appointed Commissioner Riggs than to better understand his opinions on parking and 10
traffic. And I think that it probably would be – I would support encouraging the Staff to include 11
in their report an articulated suggestion when they go to Council that there were 12
Commissioners who felt that the parking – that – not just that the parking was sufficient 13
because of the number of units that were allocated for developmentally disabled individuals 14
but that in theory maybe these – maybe it was over parked. And I mention that because I think 15
that’s one of the issues that’s come up over and over and the one expert up on the table seems 16
to have a very strong view in the opposite. So, I think to the extent that Staff can maybe spend 17
a little time on that, I think that would be important for the City Council. 18
19
VOTE 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: Ok if there are no other further questions or comments we’ll vote on the motion. 2
All in favor of the motion of approve Staff report of this issue please signify by raising your 3
hand. Anyone opposed? Zero and one absence. 4
5
Motion passed 6-0 (Lauing, Alcheck, Riggs, Waldfogel, Gardias, Monk)-0-1(Summa absent) 6
7
Chair Lauing: Thank you, Staff, and thank you all for coming tonight and being heard. Thank you 8
very much. We have a long agenda item coming up and I think we should start by taking about 9
an 8-minute break just to shift our minds to that. That also has to do with increasing housing. 10
11
[The Commission took a short break] 12
Commission Action: Motion to Approve Staff’s Recommendation Made by Vice Chair Monk, 13
Seconded by Chair Lauing, Motion Passed 6-0 (Summa Absent) 14
15
16
3. PUBLIC HEARING. The Planning and Transportation Commission Will Consider an 17
Ordinance Amending Various Sections of Title 18 to the Palo Alto Municipal Code 18
Related to Development Standards Including Minimum and Maximum Unit Density, 19
Floor Area Ratio, Height, and Open Space; Parking Requirements; Ground– Floor 20
Retail Provisions; the Approval Process, and Other Regulations Governing Residential 21
and Mixed-Use Development; All to Promote Housing Development Opportunities in 22
Zoning Districts, in Furtherance of Implementation of the Comprehensive Plan. CEQA: 23
Determination of Consistency with the Comprehensive Plan Environmental Impact 24
Report (EIR) Certified and Adopted on November 13, 2017 by Council Resolution 25
No.9720. 26
27
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Chair Lauing: Ok our next item is further review of the 2018 Housing Work Plan Ordinance 1
framework. This is listed as an action item but there will not be any official vote tonight. This is 2
will be continued to at least the meeting 10/10 so we have a presentation from Staff. 3
4
Ms. Jean Eisberg: Yes, good evening, I’m Jean Eisberg, a planning consultant with Lexington 5
Planning for the City. Good evening Commissioners. So, I’m going to run through this 6
presentation and then we can go back through the specific points are you’re moving through 7
our discussion. Just a reminder about why we’re here, I’m going to go through a quick overview 8
of the Work Plan, some context about state law, review the key components of the ordinance 9
which is now or really reporting it to you as you’ll see the ordinance which is by geographies. 10
So, that’s by the zoning districts and we’ll discuss the key topics within each zoning district and 11
then a little bit about CEQA and the Staff recommendation. 12
13
So why we’re here, so the Council Work Plan calls for a Zoning Ordinance update this year to 14
look at providing incentives and removing constraints to multi-family developments in key 15
locations. Specifically, downtown, El Camino Real, and California Avenue. And these were seen 16
as the highest opportunities for housing production both in the Comp Plan and in the Work 17
Plan. And then secondly looking at some specific changes to the RM District. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So, the context in state law, first new this year effective January 1st was SB-35 streamlining and 1
this is a state process that for projects with at least 2/3 residential floor area that meets certain 2
affordability requirements and are consistent with the City’s zoning and objective standards – 3
oh oops, I lost my place here, there we go. That these projects are eligible for streamlined 4
review which depending on the project size could be 90-day action or 180-day action. No 5
Discretionary Review is allowed, this is a ministerial action, no CEQA review is required, and 6
projects near transit can take advantage of zero parking spaces. So presently in Palo Alto 7
housing projects with 50 percent or more affordable units could be eligible for SB-35 8
streamlining. The second piece of state law which has been around a lot longer is State Density 9
Bonus Law and this allows developers to receive additional density allowances and waivers 10
from more flexibility in development standards in exchange for providing affordable housing. 11
This is notable because right now with the City’s inclusionary housing requirements many 12
projects are eligible for State Density Bonus Law right out of the gates. And then one other 13
notable thing is that these two laws can be used in combination. So, an SB-35 streamlining 14
project can also take advantage of State Density Bonus Law, so as were I said an SB-35 project 15
needs to be consistent with objective standards, a 1.0 FAR, you can actually when combined 16
with State Density Bonus Law get waivers from those various standards. 17
18
So, our timeline, we’re trying to get this ordinance to Council by the end of the year. So, we’ve 19
met – this is now our 5th meeting with the Planning Commission. And we have another meeting, 20
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2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
as the Chair mentioned if we continue this item to October 10th to review the ordinance at that 1
time in order to get us to the Council in November. 2
3
So, I mentioned that the report – we’ve changed the organization of the report this time 4
around so it really is going to match what you’re going to see in the ordinance because if you 5
think about the City’s Zoning Ordinance it’s organized by district which tends to be by 6
geography. So, the CDC District which is downtown versus the CN or CN District in El Camino 7
and so we’re primarily again focused on these commercial mixed-use areas shown on the map 8
both on the wall and on the screen. And so, our time tonight’s going to focus on the discussion 9
section of the Staff report so that’s Packet Pages 28 through 33. The analysis section after that 10
is really reiterating a lot of what you’ve reviewed already in terms of why are we doing these 11
different – why are we pulling these different levers. So, what is the rationale behind looking at 12
changing parking requirements, looking at changing FAR, and then some additional analysis that 13
the Planning Commission asked for such as looking at maximum parking requirements and 14
looking at how many units could we possibly expect from this whole ordinance. 15
16
So, the concepts for the ordinance, this is really nothing new, these are the five key topics that 17
we’ve been focusing on for the last few months and that we’ve talked at length about and 18
showed evidence around density, parking, use regulations, and the review process as key 19
drivers to facilitating housing production. We have developed this new program listed under A 20
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
which is the Housing Incentive Program to facilitate increased density and intensity while 1
maintaining local control over the review process. Specifically, through design review so I’ll 2
explain that a little bit more further down in the presentation. 3
4
So, starting with Citywide zoning revisions, so these items are zoning changes that we’re 5
looking to enact Citywide. So first in terms of open space standardizing and simplifying the 6
open space requirement for multi-family housing across all districts and this was one of the 7
items that last time we met there seemed to be some consensus around. Next, in terms of the 8
review process, this was a little bit more mixed support but it’s fairly critical. So right now, 9
commercial projects don’t require a Site and Design Review nor to smaller residential projects. 10
So, it’s another disincentive for multi-family housing, adding time and uncertainty to the 11
process by requiring review by three different bodies; the PTC, the Council, and the 12
Architectural Review Board. So, the idea here is just requiring those projects to go through 13
Architectural Review with the ARB. Lastly on the screen in terms of the Retail Preservation 14
Ordinance and there was some support this last month when we met, is a narrow exemption 15
from the ordinance for 100 percent affordable housing projects. So, this can help elevate 16
challenges for affordable developers seeking tax credits or other financing and to help them 17
reduce their physical development costs. Lastly, in terms of Citywide, we talked about this at 18
our last two meetings, parking standards for multi-family residential uses. So, these 19
recommendations in the table on the left or the sort of middle large column is the existing 20
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
standard and, on the right, the proposed columns looking at reducing parking requirements 1
based on the Fehr and Peers study that looked at nine multi-family housing developments 2
throughout the City. And we’re looking at parking requirements Citywide of one space per 3
studio and 1-bedroom and two spaces per 2-bedroom unit. You’ll see in the last column all the 4
way on the right we’ve added a recommendation for reduced parking requirement within a half 5
mile of fixed rail, so that’s within a half mile of a Caltrain platform. And if we look at the row 6
that says near transit, right now projects near transit can qualify for a 20 percent reduction. 7
They have to show through a study and through a legislative action proof of why they deserve 8
to get that reduction and there’s an action to allow that. So essentially, we’ve made that by 9
right so on the far-right column with the exception of the first row, the micro-units, the new 10
standard that’s proposed represents a 20 percent reduction off of the Citywide standard. We 11
did add a row there for the micro-unit, we haven’t talked about that before but this is an idea 12
about for really small units that are less than 450-square feet having a lower parking 13
requirement. And I’m showing the 0.5 in red because there was an error in the Staff report that 14
said 0.8 and it should have said 0.5. That’s the proposal there. 15
16
So multi-family housing – excuse me, the multi-family RM Zones, we’ve talked about this 17
before, establishing a maximum or increasing the maximum density for the RM-15 to RM-20. 18
This is a very specific policy in the Housing Element and matches the Housing Element build out, 19
establishing a minimum density to avoid the underdevelopment of multi-family residential sites 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
and then allowing replacement of non-conforming unit density. So, this means if a site is built 1
out right now where maybe five units are really only allowed per the zoning but there are 2
actually eight units on the site, you could redevelop those eight units. 3
4
Moving on to the downtown district, so first here is eliminating the maximum density 5
requirement. We’ve talked about this before in terms of just not requiring a cap on how many 6
units you can get on the site. Just using the existing massing and other standards to drive the 7
envelope. Under B is a new idea to establish a maximum unit size, so an eliminating the 8
incentive that currently exists for developers to build a large penthouse unit that only requires 9
a couple parking spaces versus a larger number of moderate-sized units that would generate 10
additional units and be more affordable but design. So, in combination with the reduced 11
parking requirements, this could provide incentive for more smaller units instead of fewer large 12
units. Additionally, maintaining the transfer of development rights for residential and 13
commercial projects is the last density item there. Looking at a few different things under 14
parking, we’ve talked about the exemption for the first 1,500-square feet of ground-floor retail 15
to provide an incentive for that ground floor retail. Next precluding curb cuts on University 16
Avenue, this is just standardizing something that doesn’t currently exist in the code. And then 17
lastly this optional item for you to consider which would be to eliminate the in-lieu fee option 18
for office developments downtown. So right now, whereas residential doesn’t have the option 19
to provide – to pay in-lieu, they must provide parking on site. Office uses can pay in-lieu and 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
this would eliminate that in-lieu fee option for office in order to reduce that incentive for 1
commercial development. In terms of uses, the proposal is to allow residential only 2
developments in the CDC District where there’s not a GF Overlay or where the Retail 3
Preservation Ordinance otherwise is required. So, this is in areas off of University Avenue away 4
from Ramona, other places that have the GF and then lastly allowing rooftop open spaces to 5
qualify as usable open space, another idea that we talked about at our last meeting. We have 6
come up with a number of standards and presented those to the Architectural Review Board 7
last week. Standards around lighting, rooftop equipment, height exceptions, landscaping, etc. 8
and so there’s a link to that report in the Staff report and you would see those standards 9
coming out when you see the draft ordinance. 10
11
So lastly and I’m just going to spend a couple minutes on this in terms of the downtown, this is 12
the sort of new idea or repackaged idea that I mentioned about the Housing Incentive program. 13
So, to take an example if you – if the Zoning Ordinance says now that you get 1.0 FAR for 14
residential project, which is what the CDC says if an owner applied for an SB-35 streamlining 15
project they would need to be compliant with that density. If they combined that with a State 16
Density Bonus Law project they could get an additional 35 percent bonus, so you could go from 17
1.0 FAR to 1.35; that 35 percent. So, the Housing Incentive Program aims to provide a local 18
Density Bonus Program that would serve as an alternative to the State Density Bonus Law and 19
SB-35. So, by law, such a program needs to provide more density bonus than the state law and 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
this proposal does that and, in that way, provides an incentive to go through the local process 1
rather than evoking state law. And so, we see this as beneficial to the City and the community 2
because it still retains the requirement to go through Design Review with the Architectural 3
Review Board. Otherwise under SB-35 there – again there’s no discretionary action so there 4
would be no ARB or PTC review, it would just be a Staff level administrative review. So key 5
components are shown on the screen here. First is just a straight up increase of residential FAR 6
from 1.0 to 2.0. Second bullet is about dipping into that existing commercial FAR. You may 7
recall this is a very specific policy in the Comprehensive Plan to what it calls convert commercial 8
FAR to residential FAR so that’s sort of the dipping in there, so then we go from 2.0 to 3.0 FAR. 9
Projects through this program would not be eligible for TDRs so the TDR is outside of this 10
program and again the Discretionary Review is required. Last bullet, one option that you can 11
consider is allowing Density Bonus – a further bonus for 100 percent affordable projects within 12
a half mile of Caltrain. So just graphically what this looks like, in downtown right now, far left, 13
we’ve got a base district existing FAR of 1.0 for residential. If – through the Housing Incentive 14
Program we’re increasing that base district FAR to 2.0 with that conversion of the commercial 15
FAR you’re getting 3.0, and then hypothetically if you went for this optional item for affordable 16
housing such a project could get a FAR of 4.0 for the residential component. 17
18
On California Avenue we’re recommending many of the same changes so eliminating the 19
maximum density, this exemption for the first 1,500-square feet of retail parking, again 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
precluding curb cuts on the major corridor on Cal. Ave, allowing residential-only development 1
except in the R Overlay which is kin to the GF Overlay downtown and allowing rooftop open 2
spaces to qualify as the residential open space requirement. And similar housing (interrupted) 3
4
Mr. Lait: [unintelligible – off mic] you should, do you not? So, our (interrupted) 5
6
Ms. Eisberg: Somebody had it in the back, maybe there was only one copy. So similar idea of 7
California Avenue in terms of this Housing Incentive Program, again where you’re dipping into 8
the commercial portion of the FAR that’s allowed today. So, on California Avenue a commercial 9
project today can do a 2.0 FAR whereas the residential can only do 0.6. So, through this local 10
alternative program, you could get from .6 FAR to 2.0 FAR, that ARB review would be required 11
and then for your consideration, as an optional item, looking at an additional Density Bonus 12
increase for 100 percent affordable projects. 13
14
So, our last zoning district, El Camino Real, so again some similar standards here. Again, 15
recommending the elimination of the maximum density so just allowing the envelope of the 16
other standards to drive how many units you can get on the site. Again, the exemption for the 17
initial 1,500-square feet of ground-floor retail. Things look a little different under the uses 18
bullets, so here you may recall there’s some exploration in the South El Camino Design 19
Guidelines (interrupted) 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Waldfogel: Excuse me. 2
3
Ms. Eisberg: I’m sorry, I really this slide so I can make some notes. I mean I’m getting – I’m 4
going to have to ask – I mean I’ll end up asking you to back up to the beginning because I’ve got 5
a whole bunch of notes that I need to discuss with you so we have a little problem here. 6
7
Ms. Eisberg: Well I’m happy to just skip ahead and we can finish the presentation and then go 8
through this item by item, that was our intent. 9
10
Commissioner Waldfogel: [unintelligible – off mic] 11
12
Ms. Eisberg: Ok otherwise we can just use the Staff report because that’s organized the same 13
way if we want to start on Packet Page 28 if we don’t have the slides. 14
15
Chair Lauing: What’s the answer, Jonathan? 16
17
Mr. Lait: We’re going to get you some print outs on that. We are – our system was a little bit 18
different, we didn’t have Yolanda helping us out tonight so we had to improvise a little bit. But 19
we’ll run some print jobs for the Commission and for the public to make sure you have copies 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
of that. But I think when we go over this in deliberation we’ll probably follow the Staff report 1
because there’s a little bit more detail in there. 2
3
Chair Lauing: Right but is there a big downside to just kind of going through with her overview 4
form the overview slides that are up on the board and then we can look at it in documents 5
later? 6
7
Mr. Lait: Well so I guess at this point you’re going to have public comment and then by the 8
time the public comment back we will have the slide. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Right so I was just going to say if you just did the California Avenue and El Camino 11
then we could have the public comment. 12
13
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) I think we have to get through [unintelligible]. 14
15
Vice-Chair Monk: I think Commissioners would like to have the benefit of taking notes on a 16
printed version of this. 17
18
Mr. Lait: Ok so (interrupted) 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Right. 1
2
[note-many people started talking at once off mic] 3
4
Vice-Chair Monk: How much time do we anticipate waiting for the printouts to come? Are 5
these getting printed out for us or not? 6
7
Mr. Lait: They will be, yeah, once I send the print job over there I’ll do that so it will be within 8
the next 5 or so minutes. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Right so I mean I understand it’s inconvenient not to take notes on the slides but if 11
she finishes her presentation then we can go to public comment while you’re printing things. 12
That seems like a more efficient way to go but if there’s (interrupted) 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: I’d make a motion that we continue and then proceed with public 15
comment to keep us rolling. 16
17
Ms. Eisberg: [unintelligible – off mic] 18
19
Chair Lauing: Yeah, I don’t think we need a motion we’ll just have discussion. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Riggs: Well I just – if we need to expeed [note – expedite maybe?]. 2
3
Chair Lauing: Ok let’s continue. 4
5
Ms. Eisberg: Ok I’m going to run through this in the next 2-minutes and then I realize the 6
presentation is probably a more synced version of the Staff report but it does mimic Pages 28 to 7
33 of the Staff report (interrupted) 8
9
Chair Lauing: Right. 10
11
Ms. Eisberg: But as tables which maybe that’s the nice part. Ok so I was getting into uses so this 12
is where El Camino is a little bit different, so you may recall when we looked at the South El 13
Camino Design Guidelines they had this exploration of this nodes and corridors concept. And 14
so, we’ve started flushing that out a little bit more about identifying locations where 15
residential-only development might be appropriate on El Camino Real. And so, with that looking 16
at residential ground floor design standards to make sure that if residential units are going to 17
be on the ground floor on El Camino Real they are well designed. And then this idea about 18
conducting a nexus study, so if there were locations on El Camino Real where the Commission 19
felt comfortable recommending that residential only could be a possibility then what happens 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
to the retail there? And the idea here is to prepare a nexus study and look at essentially an in-1
lieu fee option. So, in lieu of providing residential on the ground floor, you’re essentially paying 2
in-lieu, paying into a fund and then those funds could be available for façade improvements for 3
retail uses within the nodes. So separate idea from this Housing Ordinance but something that 4
we would considering carrying forward with the Council. And then lastly carrying over this 5
concept for open space about allowing rooftop open space. So here is the diagram that I 6
mentioned about residential-only areas, this is at the end of you Packet. So, Staff did some site 7
visits and also looked at vacancy data, occupancy data, and there seemed to be sort of 8
glomeration of retail in these areas that are shown in green. Whereas in the blue between 9
Kendal and Page Mill Road things are much more spotty and so we identified this area as an 10
opportunity for potential 100 percent residential projects. 11
12
Similar housing incent program proposed for El Camino Real to shift those FARs increasing the 13
residential FAR component. One difference here is that El Camino Real, the CNC Districts both 14
have 50 percent lot coverage requirements whereas downtown and Cal. Ave are much more 15
permissible. And we’re recommending eliminating that lot coverage requirement and just 16
letting the rest of the standards within the El Camino District apply. So, this is height, daylight 17
plane, setbacks, rather than regulate through lot coverage. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So just wrapping up in terms of CEQA we anticipate that the Housing Ordinance would be 1
consistent with the Comp Plan final EIR and we’ll do that analysis when we get to the ordinance 2
but no additional review is likely to be required. And then just a note that under SB-35 CEQA is 3
not required and so we anticipate that projects that are compliant with the Housing Ordinance 4
and compliant with the Comp Plan may be eligible for similar exemptions with – be based on 5
their consistency with the Comp Plan EIR. When we had the community meeting earlier this 6
summer and some of the public comment we received we heard some concerns about traffic, 7
parking spillover, other environmental impacts or impacts on services. And just a reminder that 8
the Comp Plan EIR includes both public improvement programs, transportation improvements, 9
mitigation measures to address some of those impacts so those would all be implemented 10
through the Comp Plan process over time just as the Housing Ordinance is also implemented. 11
So as the Chair eluded to the Staff recommendation is to continue the – to discuss this tonight, 12
review this proposal, discuss the draft ordinance these bullet points tonight, and then continue 13
the hearing to October 10th. So that concludes my presentation, let me know if you have any 14
questions. Thank you. 15
16
Chair Lauing: Ok let’s go to the public for comment, we have again quite a few speakers. The 17
first speaker is going to be Kelley Banes (interrupted) 18
19
Vice-Chair Monk: Kelsey. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: And next up is Candace Gonzalez. 2
3
Ms. Kelsey Banes: Good evening again, my name is Kelsey Banes and I want to start by thanking 4
the Staff for working to put this plan together. I was at one of the community meetings and 5
found the process really helpful to have Staff explain things like FAR to me. It helped me 6
understand some of the barriers in getting more housing in Palo Alto. So, my overall feedback is 7
that this plan is definitely moving us in the right direction but it does seem like an inadequate 8
response to a crisis. And I would just encourage the Commissioners to not confuse inaction with 9
caution because inaction has consequences. And we have the data on the consequences of this 10
inaction in that we know that we haven’t met our RHNA housing goals, we haven’t met our own 11
housing goals, and we see these consequences in terms of all the people who drive to Palo Alto 12
every day and commute from very long distances away. I have co-workers who were 13
commuting – well we lost one of these co-workers but I had a co-worker that was commuting 14
from Pleasanton but I have co-workers who commute from places like Oakland because they’re 15
social workers and they can’t afford the high cost of living here. But we also see it in terms of 16
the high population of homeless people and people living in their cars. So, in general, let’s see, 17
so I support streamlining the process definitely in terms of eliminating meetings to get housing 18
approved. I like the idea of open rooftop space and support increasing the FAR. I wish we would 19
do that in more areas, getting up to an FAR of 3, and one kind of disappointment that I have in 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
this Work Plan is that there isn’t any mention of influencing demand for parking. So, within 1
behavior economics, we know there’s something kind of magical about free stuff where the 2
demand for free things is disproportionately high. So, if we are trying to reduce the number of 3
drivers in Palo Alto we should think about paid parking. I pay $75 for my parking spot and I 4
think that’s a good thing. So, let’s see, so in general, I would look for ways to eliminate more 5
barriers to more housing units being created and I support getting this to Council as soon as 6
possible so we can start taking action. Thanks. 7
8
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Candace Gonzalez followed by Robert Moss. Is he still here? He is not. 9
10
Ms. Candace Gonzalez: Good evening Planning Commissioners, I’m here today in my new role 11
as Chief Housing Officer of Sand Hill Property Company. First, we’d like to thank you for your 12
efforts on the Housing Work Plan and trying to create predictable development standards. On a 13
positive note, it’s definitely a step in the right direction. We definitely appreciate the 14
streamlining efforts and I think that’s really critical, the streamlining of the process and 15
eliminating the meetings. Some of the items are comparable to other jurisdictions like 16
increasing residential FAR to 2.0, eliminating unit density requirements, and reducing parking 17
requirements. However, if our goal is really to get 300 units per year we do need to push some 18
of our standards and keep tweaking the Work Plan. For example, parking standards, it could be 19
reduced further, even more than proposed. I think we sited Mountain View’s standards and 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
that’s one area to look. Density in multi-family zones I think could be increased quite a bit. FAR, 1
the 2.0 to 3.0 should apply to El Camino, Cal Ave, and downtown. Retail Preservation Ordinance 2
I think it’s still a little bit problematic and could be improved. I think leave it to what the market 3
will bear rather than requiring it all at specific areas. The downtown CDC Zoning District, it 4
makes a more viable mixed-use project but it really doesn’t encourage developers to go and do 5
residential over office space so maybe looking at height – increasing height and FAR in those 6
areas. I think in general we need to create standards that really encourage housing versus just 7
trying to prevent office space. So, I think again it’s a step in the right direction, it could be 8
modified to really encourage housing but thank you for the effort. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Thank you. L. David Baron and then Bonnie Packer. 11
12
Mr. L. David Baron: Good evening, David Barron, I’m a Palo Alto resident, I live in an RM-30 13
District nearby. The Bay Area has a crisis level housing storage, I’m sure you’ve heard about it 14
many times and allowing people who want to live in denser places to do so is good for our 15
economy, it’s good for our environment, and its good for the people who want to live in these 16
places to get the thing that they would like. I think this proposed ordinance makes some good 17
incremental improvements but it looks like it falls short of what we really need in the Bay Area. 18
I think in the longer term it would be good to see less process, it would be good to see higher 19
density and Floor Area Ratio and it would be good to see movement towards lower parking 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
minimums and towards looking at parking maximums. I think the way out of the housing crisis 1
is for local governments to stop outlining the construction of the housing that people want and 2
slowing the construction. That said I think this is a good set of small incremental progress 3
towards where we need to be and I would encourage the Commission to move it towards – to 4
the Council. Thank you. 5
6
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Bonnie Packer and then Patricia Saffin. 7
8
Ms. Bonnie Packer: Back again representing the League of Women Voters. Last month on 9
August 29th the League submitted a letter to this commission urging you to embrace all the 10
recommendations for the housing-related zoning changes that would encourage the production 11
of a diversity of housing types in appropriate locations. Today we urge you to do the same 12
when you consider your recommendation on October 10th. In particular the League supports 13
the proposed modifications to the Zoning Code to maintain density standards in the form of 14
FAR which would increase the number and density and affordability of residential units, allow 15
residential development in commercial districts to use all of the existing FAR allowance, 16
establish minimum density in multi-family zones and change the RM District to RM-20, establish 17
the maximum unit size to provide an incentive for small and moderate size units in downtown, 18
allow open space requirements to be on roof tops to free up space for more dwelling units, 19
remove the discretion regarding parking regulations so that an affordable housing provider 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
would be automatically eligible for parking reductions based on the income level of the 1
residents, streamline the review process for residential and residential mixed use project, 2
establish the housing incentive program with all of its excellent features as described in the 3
Staff report for the various areas, exempt 100 percent affordable housing projects from the 4
Retail Preservation Ordinance, allow 100 percent residential uses along those high density 5
nodes along certain parts of El Camino Real, and consider increasing affordable housing 6
densities and building heights in downtown. 7
8
When this comes back to you on October 10th we urge you to recommend adoption of these 9
sorely needed changes. Thank you. 10
11
Chair Lauing: Thank you. Patricia Saffin and then there’s one more, John – I’m sorry, I can’t read 12
it, Shelly? 13
14
Ms. Patricia Saffin: I didn’t realize that you were having another meeting regarding this and so I 15
think my comments are more appropriate for the meeting on the 10th so I won’t say anything 16
tonight. Thank you. 17
18
Chair Lauing: Ok well thanks for coming out and staying with us. John, is it Sholley? I can’t quite 19
– I’m sorry I can’t read it. Oh sorry, Jan. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ms. Jan Stokley: Jan Stokley. 2
3
Chair Lauing: Sorry. 4
5
Ms. Jan Stokley: Chance to [unintelligible] Housing Choices. I just wanted to support two of the 6
concepts that I heard tonight. One is looking at how to give developers incentives to work with 7
you instead of using SB-35. Our community was involved in an SB-35 project in Cupertino and 8
as it turned out the developer went through a specific plan process and we were able to get 40 9
extremely low-income units in the project. Had it been an SB-35 project there wouldn’t have 10
been any extremely low-income units so I like the concept of giving developers reasons to work 11
with you and not use SB-35 because it only targets down to 80 percent of AMI? Anyway, and 12
then the second concept that I really, really want to support is the idea of having local revisions, 13
improvement add-ons to the California Density Bonus Law. Right now, there are very little 14
incentives for developers under the Density Bonus Law who are doing affordable housing to 15
actually target down to the extremely low-income group. In our high-cost county extremely, 16
low income for a one-person household is like $26,000 a year, so those are the households that 17
are most at risk of homelessness. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So, I support the idea of having additions to the State Density Bonus that really reflect your 1
community’s needs and I would just encourage to have some incentives to do extremely low-2
income units because they’re the ones that developers won’t do unless you really give them – 3
make it feasible for them to do it. Thank you. 4
5
Chair Lauing: Ok, thank you, that concludes the public comment on this item. 6
7
[note-Male:] Can I ask a clarification question? Not a comment. 8
9
Chair Lauing: Yeah you can fill out a card and ask that question but you can ask the question 10
first and fill out the card if you want to. Go ahead. Ok, great. 11
12
[note-Male:] So, this is regarding the RM-15 to RM-20 change, so in the current ordinance we 13
don’t really have a definition for RM-20 right? Do we have – especially in terms of Floor to Area 14
Ratio and all those kinds of things? 15
16
Chair Lauing: Go ahead, Staff. 17
18
Mr. Lait: So, is the public comment done? 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Yeah. 1
2
Mr. Lait: Ok so it’s the same standards that we would use for RM-15 that we would use for RM-3
20. The only change is – well two changes, one the title and two instead of 15 dwelling units per 4
acre it’s 20 dwelling units per acre. 5
6
Chair Lauing: Right, ok. Alright so then relative to processing this we can ask questions of you 7
but it seems to me that we should just stick with the plan as it goes through in the document. If 8
you want to reference the slides that’s fine but I would suggest that we cover the Citywide for 9
example in as much detail as possible because there’s a lot of applicable issues that will then go 10
on to the other areas like the parking and the retail preservation and so on. Ok? 11
12
Vice-Chair Monk: Can I just ask a clarifying question on RM-20? 13
14
Chair Lauing: Ok. 15
16
Vice-Chair Monk: Was that going to be a minimum? 17
18
Mr. Lait: I’m sorry? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Monk: Was that going to be a minimum of 20 or (interrupted) 1
2
Mr. Lait: Maximum. 3
4
Vice-Chair Monk: Ok. 5
6
Chair Lauing: Ok so let’s turn it to review so right now we’re going to look at Citywide issues and 7
let's just stay with open space so Citywide open space. We’ll see how this pace goes and see if 8
we can add some things to it but there’s – this is extortionary dense 4-pages here. So – and I 9
would obviously encourage folks not to repeat other than say I agree with Commissioner 10
Gardias or whatever because we got a lot to get through here. Ok, Commissioner Alcheck. So, 11
we’re on Packet Page 28. 12
13
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, I’d like to propose a potentially different strategy if that’s ok? 14
15
Chair Lauing: Listening. 16
17
Commissioner Alcheck: It feels like we’ve had a number of discussions and I am appreciative 18
that we are – you’re trying – we’re trying to distill it and – I feel like what your goal tonight is to 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
find out even more how we all feel about this. I can sort of blanketly say that I support almost 1
every effort to liberalize the process. I think I’m in the minority, going out on a limb here. 2
3
Chair Lauing: So, what’s your procedural suggestion? 4
5
Commissioner Alcheck: My suggestion is I think the individuals who have the concerns should 6
speak. I will support whatever this Commission can stomach and more. And I don’t think it’s a 7
good use of time for me to keep saying that on every single item. 8
9
Chair Lauing: Great. 10
11
Commissioner Alcheck: I think it would be better if the issues that you are uncomfortable with 12
you raise, the issues that the other members of the Commission are uncomfortable with they 13
raise and we go from there. Because whatever you can stomach we’re going to end up 14
excepting because that’s the -- we have a strong majority here that I think has concerns about 15
this and a small minority that is less concerned about this. And if we want to pass this it’s going 16
to take some working together in some regards, so I would just like to hear who is concerned 17
about what. And maybe there’s a little discussion we can have about those items and if not let’s 18
move to the next (interrupted) 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: I don’t see that as dissimilar because I also said let’s not repeat each other and 1
(interrupted) 2
3
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, I don’t even think we should go one by one. I just want to know 4
(interrupted) 5
6
Chair Lauing: I want to get the pace of this first one and then we can go faster, that’s all I’m 7
saying. 8
9
Commissioner Alcheck: I just want to know what you don’t like about all the ideas and then I 10
will support everything you do like. 11
12
Chair Lauing: That’s great. Did anybody else – did anyone else have any other procedural 13
questions or suggestions? 14
15
Commissioner Riggs: I just need direction from you, Mr. Chair. 16
17
Chair Lauing: Sure, go ahead. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Riggs: Well do you want me to stick with just Citywide of Citywide open space 1
because I’m ready to go through three things – only three issues I have with this whole thing? 2
3
Chair Lauing: I’d like to stick with – for now to the Citywide because I’m anticipating that there 4
could be some detailed questions and we don’t want to get into El Camino before we figure out 5
Citywide. So, let’s just try that, if we can (interrupted) 6
7
Commissioner Riggs: I have one comment then on Citywide, I brought up the dialog on part – 8
why we aren’t exploring parking maximums last time. You changed the language on here that 9
says that the parking requirements may be based on maximum anticipated demand but there’s 10
nothing here about exploring parking maximums. And I’m -- so I don’t know what Fehr and 11
Peers did with my feedback but they walked out and from what I can see did nothing. 12
13
Mr. Lait: So, I think that’s a question and on Packet Page 37 we have a discussion at the top of 14
the page, a bullet point, just a short conversation about parking maximums. We certainly think 15
that that’s a policy conversation that this Commission could have and make recommendations 16
to Council. We didn’t propose it in what we’re calling our draft ordinance because we think 17
that’s probably a more dialog is probably needed to get there but we’re welcome to have a 18
conversation with the Commission. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Riggs: Well I think what I would – what I heard from the only developer that 1
spoke tonight was that they feel like the parking standards are still an obstacle and I would 2
propose a more progressive approach to policy Citywide a parking maximum policy. 3
4
Mr. Lait: Ok. 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: And I’m willing to – I mean clearly, I’m not going to fall on my sword over 7
this but I think it’s an important step that we could take that would set a great precedent going 8
forward. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Monk [note-Vice Chair Monk]. 11
12
Vice-Chair Monk: In regards to what Commissioner Alcheck stated I concur, I would like to see 13
more generous concessions being made to developers of a residential than what we have here 14
but I think this is a great starting point. I absolutely support everything that’s in here. I think it’s 15
very well balanced, I think the Staff did a very thorough job of considering all of the competing 16
viewpoints of this Commission and came up with a recommendation that we’re sufficiently 17
equally somewhat unhappy about which means it’s probably a good compromise. So, to that 18
take it as you will but ultimately, I would like to advance it in the form that it is. If there’s 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
consensus to make certain aspects more relaxed to increase the prospect of development I 1
would support that. 2
3
Chair Lauing: So, I think if there’s any (interrupted) 4
5
Vice-Chair Monk: In regards to review process, Packet Page 28, my understanding is that we’ve 6
got the ARB with the ability to have up to three sessions per project. I would recommend that 7
we limit that to no more than two. That seems to be a sufficient amount of review. I 8
understand that it could take months, up to a year even actually, to get housing approved but 9
when it comes to commercial project it's just done in a matter of months. So, I think we need to 10
look at our review process and cut it down severely. 11
12
Mr. Lait: Just to clarify did you say housing generally or are you talking specifically about 13
affordable housing? 14
15
Vice-Chair Monk: Definitely for – for both actually, housing generally. I would limit it even 16
further for affordable if we could. Maybe there could be some guidelines set forth for 17
affordable housing developers to minimize their costs in coming back multiple times with new 18
architectural plans. I think that’s a big deterrent to projects getting developed. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Lait: So again, just for clarification so you’re saying 100 percent housing projects or you’re 1
saying any housing project, mixed-use, two reviews? I’m sorry I was (interrupted) 2
3
Vice-Chair Monk: Mixed-use, two reviews. 4
5
Mr. Lait: Ok so housing projects two reviews before the Architectural Review Board. 6
7
Vice-Chair Monk: Is there Staff comment on that? 8
9
Mr. Lait: Yeah well so we have – we currently have three units – three in the code projects go 10
before the Architectural Review Board up to three times before having to give a 11
recommendation to the Director. And so, we are interested in streamlining housing, affordable 12
housing projects we certainly administratively do our best to move those along, establishing 13
two meetings before the Architectural Review Board further – does provide that streamline. 14
Most projects now are taking advantage of this pre-submittal process which is helpful so that it 15
actually adds another meeting into it. So certainly, Staff could support that and welcome other 16
Commissioner’s feedback on that. 17
18
Vice-Chair Monk: And what would be the distinction between affordable housing projects 19
versus mixed use from Staff’s perspective and the number of reviews? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Lait: Yeah, I mean I think – I think it’s probably a conversation we have about mixed-use 2
projects. I think about 100 percent affordable housing – 100 percent housing projects, whether 3
it’s affordable or market rate, I think might be in a slightly different review cycle maybe than 4
mixed-used only because some of the other complexities that come along with commercial 5
design and that interface with the streetscape. But certainly, I think housing projects – 100 6
percent housing projects and affordable projects would certainly – that’s a worthy conversation 7
to have. 8
9
Vice-Chair Monk: So, is Staff conveying a big of a concern in limiting the review process on 10
mixed-use to two meetings? 11
12
Mr. Lait: I think that there’s value in the Architectural Review Board process. Sometimes it does 13
take three meetings. I think when you add the commercial component there’s probably more 14
complexity involved in reviewing those projects than there would be a 100 percent affordable – 15
100 percent housing project. 16
17
Vice-Chair Monk: I would differ to Staff and fellow Commissioners on that and then I would 18
modify my comments to a residential for two meetings. What I’d also like to do is just look at – 19
as we go through this just look at the developmental standards, in general, to see how we could 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
make everything more efficient. I think going over the Affordable Housing Ordinance just prior 1
to this was illustrative and I think we could look into bringing some of those elements perhaps 2
into this ordinance, so I might just be eluding to that as we go through this Packet. I guess we 3
could – I mean are we just looking at Page 28 Citywide right now? 4
5
Chair Lauing: Well it carries over to top of Page 29 with parking. 6
7
Vice-Chair Monk: So, if you want me to continue on that I have a comment or if you want to go 8
onto someone else. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Item One Citywide which is on 28 and 29, yeah. 11
12
Vice-Chair Monk: So then in regards to – I’d like to ask Staff if we could explore some areas of 13
the AH Overlay that could be applied to this area. Is there anything that we learned tonight that 14
can be applied and brought back on the 10th in regards to unit density and/or parking 15
requirements? Anything in this section? 16
17
Mr. Lait: Yes, so yeah, I think that was – so we had our first hearing under the Affordable 18
Housing Overlay and I mean I welcome Commissioner feedback on that but I detected a little bit 19
of not frustration but recognition maybe of the limited role the Commissioner has in processing 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the Affordable Housing Overlay. We’re not looking at the project, we’re not looking at the 1
parking standards, it’s just does it – is it consistent with the Comprehensive Plan to apply this 2
overlay to property in these districts that it’s allowed. And so, it does beg the question I think 3
having listen to that discussion tonight, the legislative process that goes along with Affordable 4
Housing Overlay. A legislative action before the City – that requires an action before the City 5
Council so this Wilton Court project that we’ve talked about is going to go here for the overlay 6
to the Architectural Review Board for project review and then to City Council for project review 7
and the legislative action. And that’s a fairly long process and so with the ordinance that’s 8
before you some changes are being recommended. They don’t go as far as the Affordable 9
Housing Overlay in some areas. For instance, on El Camino we’re not going to 2.0, we’re not 10
going to 50-feet in height, I think Jean would correct me if I’m wrong and so there’s some other 11
standards too that we talked about, parking is .75 for the affordable housing projects subject to 12
the overlay. So, I think that if the Commission were – if we were to ask ourselves the value of 13
that legislative process, does it make sense to have that process and if the answer to that is yes 14
then maybe there’s no change that’s needed. But if the answer to that process is no, there’s not 15
a lot of value added to having legislative component we could incorporate the Affordable 16
Housing Overlay regulations into this ordinance. There by providing these – a streamline 17
process for affordable housing that would go through the Architectural Review Board. If that 18
makes sense and I’m happy to sort of -- I feel like there was a lot there but I’m kind of free 19
rolling it right now. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice-Chair Monk: I think that makes a lot of sense, I don’t what – how other folks feel but I felt 2
that the legislative process was kind of redundant. I felt like we re-hashed these same issues, 3
we’ve heard the same arguments, the same pros and cons. I don’t know what value this 4
Commission has on the legislative process, especially because we have the ARB available for 5
concerned citizens that are primarily going to be worried about the issues that we’re not really 6
looking at in legislative process. They’re going to be looking at parking and design and massing 7
and things like that. And I think there’s opportunity at site and design for community 8
involvement, also at the City Council level, so I would support eliminating the legislative 9
process. Is there sentiment – does anyone have any feelings on that within (interrupted) 10
11
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) I would [unintelligible] with almost everything you said whenever 12
you’re done. 13
14
Vice-Chair Monk: Yeah just on that points let’s kind of -- do you want some consensus on that? 15
16
Commissioner Riggs: I would prefer to yield until you’re done. 17
18
Chair Lauing: Yeah are you done with the Citywide comments? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Monk: I was just trying to get closure or some consensus on this one issue with that 1
we’re having a little bit of back and forth on with regard to the legislative process for affordable 2
housing. Does – since we’re (interrupted) 3
4
Chair Lauing: Aren’t you almost done with the Citywide? 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: It’s fine, we can just have a discussion, it’s fine. 7
8
Vice-Chair Monk: If you want to do peace [unintelligible] we could do a peace muck [note- 9
unknown phrase] and switch gears or we can just finish this one conversation. Whatever you 10
want to do Chair. 11
12
Chair Lauing: I was just trying to get (interrupted) 13
14
Vice-Chair Monk: What ever you’d like to do Chair. 15
16
Chair Lauing: I just was trying to get folks comments on this one and then if we have to debate 17
them we can go back and do them. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Monk: Well I think that we had some interesting dialog with the Acting Chair Late 1
[note-Assistant Director or Acting Director Lait] that is worth exploring at this juncture. If you 2
don’t feel like it’s the right time then (interrupted) 3
4
Chair Lauing: No, no disagreement, we’ll get to if in just a couple minutes but if you could just 5
finish your comments on (interrupted) 6
7
Vice-Chair Monk: Then I would also say in regards to Citywide I’d prefer to see a lower 8
threshold on parking. I’d rather see parking minimums I guess, I don’t remember what we 9
talked about in the past but I do believe that this is a compromise situation (interrupted) 10
11
[note – many Commissioners started speaking off mic] 12
13
Vice-Chair Monk: Sorry? 14
15
Commissioner Riggs: These are minimums. 16
17
Vice-Chair Monk: Maximums and I think we talked about parking maximums. There were some 18
other concepts I thought Commissioner Riggs you have eluded to at a prior meeting so I 19
supported you prior discussion on that. I did have a question about the FAR, did you say that it 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
goes up to 4.0 if it’s 100 affordable if you’re using the state density and SB-35? Under the 1
(interrupted) 2
3
Ms. Eisberg: Are you talking about downtown? 4
5
Vice-Chair Monk: When you were (interrupted) 6
7
Ms. Eisberg: So, we don’t have any FAR Citywide standards (interrupted) 8
9
Mr. Lait: Are you referring to this slide? 10
11
Vice-Chair Monk: You were talking – when you were talking about the housing incentive 12
program and I might be jumping ahead. 13
14
Ms. Eisberg: Yes, maybe so. 15
16
Vice-Chair Monk: Just a general question – ok then I’ll ask – I’ll reserve on that question. Ok so 17
is there anything other than the legislative process Acting Chair Lait [note- Assistant Director or 18
Acting Director Lait] that you think we could do in terms of incorporating the affordable 19
housing components? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Lait: Well so I just think that – I mean if I’m understanding what you’re saying (interrupted) 2
3
Vice-Chair Monk: Well in this context you’re saying that the review process is something that 4
could be reevaluated. 5
6
Mr. Lait: I guess what I was talking about is we could take the Affordable Housing Overlay which 7
exists and if there was interest in – for again 100 percent affordable housing projects – 8
incorporating those standards into this ordinance without the need for the legislative change. 9
10
Commissioner Riggs: It makes total sense to me. I (interrupted) 11
12
Chair Lauing: Ok Commissioner Riggs is busting at the seams here. 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: Well no, no so I – actually one of the frustrations that I have with the 15
Affordable Housing Overlay is that it’s not by right because we have to have a legislative action 16
every time that a project comes in. That’s totally [unintelligible], we should not be doing that, I 17
actually did not understand that when I originally voted on it. I probably wouldn’t have 18
supported it otherwise because I assumed it was a by right overlay where we wouldn’t have 19
had to have hearings like we had this morning. I would fully be supportive of folding that in, 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
forgetting that every existed and making that a part of Citywide policy. Clearly has geographic 1
bounds, it maybe could have geographic bounds but I think that those standards could be – it 2
would be more efficient to do that. And I would – I find it silly that we would have downtown – 3
for example downtown standards of .8 for 1-bedroom unit when our Affordable Housing 4
Overlay which actually has the exact same geographic location would be .75. And then so we’d 5
have people coming in and saying well I’m under the Affordable Housing Overlay, no I’m under 6
the Housing Ordinance. That needs to be brought into consistency so I think it’s a great idea, I 7
would support that – I’m blanking – Commissioner Sue [note- Vice Chair Monk]. 8
9
But I don’t know if you want me to continue because one of the things you said, I was not 10
supportive of eliminating site design. I think it’s – I’m willing to compromise on that but I do not 11
think we should roll back on additional ARC [note- ARB] review. I don’t think we should push 12
Staff on that and the reason is, as we hear from the public all the time, the devils in the details 13
and particularly ARC [note- ARB] is good at all of the decisions with regard to place making. And 14
when we talk about that it’s the interface between the human being and the building and so 15
they’re going to think about all the design – well their job is to think about all the design 16
features that are actually going to create a safe and inviting and livable urban environment. 17
That’s way beyond what we deal with on the Planning Commission so I just – I would say that 18
we need that level of review to assure appropriate design standards that are livable, walkable, 19
human in our downtown and in our City, so I would suggest that we not noodle with that. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: Ok (interrupted) 2
3
Vice-Chair Monk: Ok and just to clarify on that point, we were distinguishing between Site and 4
Design meetings that are purely residential (interrupted) 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: No. 7
8
Vice-Chair Monk: That they’ve already had a pre-application discussion and have been pre-9
vetted by Staff and limiting it instead of three meetings for those to maybe just two. 10
11
Commissioner Riggs: I would (interrupted) 12
13
Vice-Chair Monk: But were as the mixed use, which are like you said more impactful on the 14
community, to have – leave those the way they are. 15
16
Commissioner Riggs: I’m deeply concerned about this as written if I were to be perfectly 17
honest. I think the City’s giving up a lot of review capacity but I’m willing to concede as written 18
but I think if you roll it back more we’re going to get -- the phrase my Jewish grandma -- 19
schlocky development. I mean I think we’re – no, no they [unintelligible], let me [unintelligible]. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: Ok so let’s get some other people involved (interrupted) 2
3
Commissioner Riggs: It’s just I’m worried about that. 4
5
Chair Lauing: Instead of people a second time. 6
7
Commissioner Alcheck: I’m lit up. 8
9
Chair Lauing: Yeah, I understand but I’d like to get people who haven’t talked yet talking about 10
their views of Citywide and we can come back to debate this whole thing. 11
12
Commissioner Alcheck: [unintelligible – off mic] 13
14
Chair Lauing: I know but we’re going to go with Waldfogel first because he’s lit up too. 15
16
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok so first of all thanks for putting together – threading a very 17
difficult needle. We can all find things we love and things we hate but let’s try to focus on 18
things we love tonight. Just to reiterate what Commissioner Riggs was just talking about and 19
then Commissioner Monk [note- Vice-Chair Monk], I just have a question for Staff which is 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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there must be a best practice in planning for what is an efficient, fair, predictable review 1
process that also leads to good design. I mean there must be a best practice and do you have 2
any thoughts on what that best practice might look like? I mean I don’t want to over under 3
constrain it but one of the other hats I wear is I’m on an Architecture and Design Committee for 4
SFMOMA. And we had a kick off meeting last week and had a long discussion about the built 5
environment in the Bay Area and that we’re really not living up to our design potential. So just 6
what is best practice to do all these things, to get stuff built, and to – and for the City to have 7
and promote its interest in good design? 8
9
Mr. Lait: So, I – there’s a lot of practice and I’m leaving out the word best practice as it applies 10
(interrupted) 11
12
Commissioner Waldfogel: [unintelligible – off mic] 13
14
Mr. Lait: There’s – I think what we see is communities set up these Design Review Boards, 15
Architectural Review Boards to help get at the good quality design aspect because without 16
something like that, to borrow from Commissioner Riggs term, you’ll get schlocky development. 17
18
Commissioner Riggs: Sorry. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Lait: That’s alright. And so, I think that’s the fear or concern and I think part of that’s 1
rooted in some of the development that we’ve seen. And then the question is does 2
Architectural Review Board achieve that goal? And so – and can they do it in a—can it be done 3
in a way that respects a compressed timeline? So just a couple thoughts, one is to improve 4
efficiency you need to have very clear objective standards and that’s also where the state wants 5
to go too with passage of SB-35. Wanting to allow projects to go by right with clear objective 6
standards and one of the elements of our Work Program that we have that we’re going to be 7
working on and coming back before the Planning Commission are where we have objective 8
standards in our code, how can we make those more objective? And so that’s going to be in 9
2019 when we come back and have a conversation about that. Beyond that I think you – it’s not 10
a – beyond that I think you could spend some time thinking about another process that exists 11
that rewards development for bringing on board a certain kind of quality architecture. And in 12
previous employment that I’ve had we were contemplating extension beyond permissible 13
development standards for award architects along with some other standards that would allow 14
for increased height, density, etc. etc. but I – that requires a lot of energy and thought into that 15
process. 16
17
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah probably past where we can get to tonight but I mean I think 18
that’s where we need to go, is that we need to design process. I mean I’m not sure that we 19
need to – you know we won’t get a lot of black cape architects just through some simple 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
incentives but I think that’s – you know we should be thinking about what actually promotes a 1
good built environment in the context of the other objectives. 2
3
Let me just jump over to one other thought which does tie in with the very first open space 4
topic although it’s a little complicated but we’ve – I’ll come back to the question of permissible 5
FARs when we get to those sections. But something that would be incredibly helpful in this 6
process, may be unattainable but I think would be helpful, is if we could look at some massing 7
studies relative to different FARs and different open space standards and configurations of 8
open space. Because it’s hard for me – what I fear with some of the open space ideas, suppose 9
we allow 100 percent of the open space to be roof top within a 4.0 FAR, I fear that will lead to 10
very plan and unarticulated boxes as the default design move. I have a suspicion that pulling 11
some of that open space to ground level will encourage better design. Don’t know for sure but I 12
think that some massing studies looking at the range of massing, the configuration of open 13
space, roof top balcony, ground level, starts to give us some insight. Because otherwise I 14
honesty I don’t have the visual imagination to be able to translate a 4.0 FAR with 75 percent 15
roof top open space allowance to be able to even imagine what kind of buildings that that will 16
result in. So [unintelligible] 10,000, 20,000, 30,000-square foot lots, I just – I can’t get there 17
from here. It’s my failing but I think some of that would help us to think through this. I don’t 18
know, does that make any sense to you? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ms. Eisberg: Yes. 1
2
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Gardias. 3
4
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. So, we’re discussing Citywide, correct? 5
6
Chair Lauing: Citywide Page 28 and 29 in the Packet. 7
8
Commissioner Gardias: Very good, just wanted to make sure, ok, thank you. So, in terms of 9
those – so I think that what we should do, we should just focus on those items that would really 10
move the needle. For this reason, review process, I think it’s a separate side show and I think 11
that it would just distract us from the obtainable goal. This community pretty much clearly has 12
interest interviewing the projects and commenting on those projects. It is what it is and then if 13
you really want to change it that’s a separate discussion and I don’t think that this is the 14
discussion that falls into the parameters of the – of increasing the housing supply. I believe that 15
open space, retail preservation and parking it is within an obtainable goal and I completely 16
agree with those three items. I didn’t see roof top comment here under open space so I 17
thought that maybe it’s on some other page or maybe it was deleted from this. So, I totally 18
agree with this comment of just making this similar. I would have made it different if you had 19
asked me. I would just follow the algorithm scale if you want to be precise but you have a 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
proposal like this I can go with this very well. I would – for this reason, just repeating, I would 1
remove the review process because it would spill lots of blood and then everybody wants to 2
have a piece of control and purview and discussion. So, let it be, this is what Palo Alto stands for 3
so you can still retain it. Its nothing bad, it provides some value, however those three items A, 4
C, D we can just pretty much agree upon very quickly and move them forward. That’s what I 5
would do, thank you. 6
7
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Alcheck. 8
9
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, ok, I’ll just respond to some of the comments which is I hope 10
helpful. Look I appreciate the sense of fear related to reducing the review process at the ARB 11
level. Do we need five meetings to talk about the – this item? I mean is our process improved 12
by having this discussion over five meetings? Maybe. Its not that I don’t think more time helps, I 13
think there’s a cost to more time as well, and so the question is are – is the ARB’s extra meeting 14
creating such a tremendous improvement in the – I want to use your terminology – less 15
schlockiness of the building to justify the cost, the tremendous cost associated with review 16
times? It would not be I think inappropriate to suggest that the process is a major problem here 17
and so the question is I think really one, that we need ARB to answer. I think it would be foolish 18
for example for the Planning Commission to suggest a change without the ARB Chair for 19
example providing some feedback to the Commission which can happen before the October 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
10th meeting. Where they say hey, listen, we understand you’re interested in knowing whether 1
you think we can handle this in two or three meetings and if they are confident that they can 2
get a little bit more efficient, I don’t know why we wouldn’t support it. If they come back in 3
their capacity and say in response to the inquire from Director Lait on this item that the 4
Planning Commission is interested in on some feedback for, we strongly recommend that you 5
don’t make this change. Then I think all of us would probably say well we’re not going to 6
disagree with them. So, my point here is let’s ask the people in the room that need the extra 7
meeting whether they want it. 8
9
The next thing I would say is I talked you a little bit last time about this item what’s better, a 10
100 percent affordable project that doesn’t get built or a 50 percent affordable project or two 11
50 percent affordable projects that do? I think we have to start thinking – you know one of the 12
things about SB-35 is that if you make 50 percent of your project affordable that’s part of the 13
process to qualify. So, do we really want to pit our process – do we want to say hey you can – 14
you are eligible for some of these hurdles help but only if you go 100 percent but if you go SB-15
35 and you have a 50 percent affordable project then you know. So, I think what we need to do 16
is we really need to talk about can we create something that is a track let’s say that is 17
appealing, 50 percent affordable, that you could sell to a developer to say listen doing use SB-18
35. We want to create something – if every project that got built was 50 percent affordable that 19
would be a huge success and I think that’s why SB-35 is popular in some regards. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: Are you still on the issue of review process? 2
3
Commissioner Alcheck: I’m talking about the Citywide items; A, B, C, D. 4
5
Chair Lauing: Right but (interrupted) 6
7
Commissioner Alcheck: So first comment I made was about the review process, the second one 8
I’m making is about retail preservation. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Ok you didn’t say that so. 11
12
Commissioner Alcheck: The notion is that we’re suggesting that you can eliminate a retail site, 13
like the one we’re eliminating earlier this evening, simply in exchange for 100 percent 14
affordable. And my point is we should be potentially open to the idea of allowing exemptions to 15
retail preservation particularly because I would suggest to you that when we reviewed this 16
Retail Preservation Ordinance the Commission was incredibly divided. This is not this 17
Commission, this is the Commission makeup from the before the last nominations, was 18
incredibly divided about the idea about whether retail preservation should be Citywide. I am 19
still not convinced that Staff thinks that was a good idea. There’s a part of me that believes that 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Staff would have preferred a retail preservation – I should say it differently. There’s a big part of 1
me that believes that the retail community would have strongly preferred a Retail Preservation 2
Ordinance that consolidated certain areas into retail districts. 3
4
Chair Lauing: So, are you suggesting we change C in some way? 5
6
Commissioner Alcheck: I’m saying that I think Staff should consider preparing something that 7
mirrored some of the benefits of SB-35 by giving a pathway for a 50 percent affordable project 8
that could jump over certain hurdles. Including some of the Retail Preservation Ordinance – 9
some of the including retail preservation exception in areas outside of downtown, Cal. Ave. I 10
think that’s – I think you get what I’m trying to say. 11
12
Chair Lauing: To Staff is HIP designed to address some of that? 13
14
Commissioner Alcheck: I don’t think it’s on the radar right now, the idea of a less than 15
affordable project. 16
17
Chair Lauing: I thought the intent of a HIP was to be better than SB-35 so that we get more 18
(interrupted) 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Alcheck: The intent is to lure people away from using SB-35. I’m just suggesting 1
that this – especially in areas that are not downtown and Cal Ave. Ok and the final comment I 2
want to make about the AH (interrupted) 3
4
Commissioner Waldfogel: [unintelligible – off mic] 5
6
Chair Lauing: I don’t know yet. 7
8
Commissioner Alcheck: I’ll make a comment about the discussion that you guys had earlier 9
about the AH Overlay. Look I think it’s worth pointing out, the majority of the Commission 10
didn’t support the AH Overlay and so what – why? There were reasons and I think one of the 11
things that made the Council support it 7-2, it didn’t even have full support from the Council. I 12
think one of the things that made it more supportive was this notion that the AH Overlay, they 13
still had to ask for it. It didn’t feel – now I’m not suggesting I don’t agree with you that the 14
process should theoretically be more streamlined but I just – I’m reading the room. I don’t 15
know that the community is ready for that. 16
17
Chair Lauing: Ok so I’m (interrupted) 18
19
Commissioner Alcheck: It certainly wasn’t at the time they approved it. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: I’m going – since I haven’t spoken yet I’ll just make a couple quick comments. One 2
is we did discuss that open space has to be less than 100 percent and I think that’s in the plan 3
now, correct Jean? Open space is going to have to be less than 100 percent on roof tops when 4
we get to that point. 5
6
Ms. Eisberg: Right the proposal is that it could qualify for up to 75 percent. 7
8
Chair Lauing: Right and we’ve already agreed that it’s useable (interrupted) 9
10
Ms. Eisberg: Right. 11
12
Chair Lauing: Not HVAC equipment. 13
14
Ms. Eisberg: Right. 15
16
Chair Lauing: I do think that this review process, while it’s controversial, that’s a place where 17
we can get things done faster. I mean no question about it and I’m not sure our greatest value 18
add is on Site Design Review. I’m very glad that it’s only going to go to – this is a change from 19
last time that’s only going to go to Council on appeal as opposed to also have to be decided by 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
them. The one thing that sounds like a nit but I’ll bring it up is that ARB meets at 6 o’clock in the 1
morning, that’s an exaggeration, but they’re early in the morning. So maybe that’s not a 2
problem for people who have projects, it would be a problem for the public who are working 3
folks so they should look at making adjustments to that. Retail Preservation, I’m not sure why 4
the 120 percent AMI was picked. I mean I know all about this stuff but every time I read 5
affordable housing 120 percent AMI just seems a little contradictory to me. And I know its 120 6
percent and under, I’m not going to belabor it but I just want to sort of note that point. Sorry, 7
where you going to make a comment? 8
9
Mr. Lait: Well I – I mean I’m happy too. I’d only – just to tell you where it comes from, I mean it 10
comes from Title 16 of our Municipal Code where we define what affordable housing is. And so 11
affordable housing is defined as 120 percent of AMI. 12
13
Chair Lauing: And at 120 percent it’s probably not fundable anyway relative to affordable 14
housing unless it’s blended. 15
16
Mr. Lait: Right well we’ve – we know about the tax credits and how that’s geared toward 60 17
percent AMI but there’s also been some recent changes where its – you can have an average of 18
60 percent so some of the units can be more than 60 percent AMI. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Ok, thanks. I’ll be brief and I think next up was Commissioner Monk [note – Vice 1
Chair Monk]. 2
3
Vice-Chair Monk: Yeah so on that topic just to confirm 120 AMI for a family of four comes out 4
to be like $100 (interrupted) 5
6
Chair Lauing: 15 or something. 7
8
Vice-Chair Monk: $13,000 a year in annual income roughly. 9
10
Commissioner Riggs: 120? It’s like $140,000. 11
12
Vice-Chair Monk: $113. 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: AMI is like $120. 15
16
Vice-Chair Monk: No, it’s not, it’s less than that. 17
18
Mr. Lait: Well hold on so (interrupted) 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Monk: For – it depends on – AMI varies depending on the number of people in the 1
household so for a family of four – no the annual salary. I’m just saying it’s not – for a family of 2
four making just over $100,000 a year in the Bay Area is something that is a demographic that 3
we need to accommodate. So, I don’t have a problem with housing projects going to 120 4
percent of AMI because that population is not being served with housing production. 5
6
I did have a clarifying question on the (interrupted) 7
8
Mr. Lait: Ok so medium income is $113 and so moderate is $135, $120 is $135. 9
10
Chair Lauing: So, the dollar income (interrupted) 11
12
Vice-Chair Monk: For a family of four? 13
14
Mr. Lait: For a family of four. 15
16
Chair Lauing: Is what for $120? 17
18
Mr. Lait: So, for – the last data that I have is that for in this county for a family of four the 19
Median Area Income is $113,000 give or take a little bit there (interrupted) 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) I bet it’s about $120 [unintelligible]. 2
3
Mr. Lait: And for moderate for a family of four it’s -- call it $136,000. 4
5
Chair Lauing: Ok. Did you have other comments? 6
7
Vice-Chair Monk: So yeah on the housing I just want to confirm for Citywide you’re making 8
some minor changes to parking on a studio 1-bedroom but on the 2-bedroom there’s no 9
change, right? 10
11
Ms. Eisberg: Right. 12
13
Vice-Chair Monk: And then in regards to half mile within transit I would support what was 14
advanced in the Affordable Housing Overlay figures just to make it consistent with regard to the 15
.75 for studios and 1-bedrooms and then the .5 for micro units as you mentioned earlier. And 16
we’re not building more than the state allows on any of these proposals, here right? This isn’t 17
more liberal than what the state is requiring correct? This is just following the state direction 18
essentially and it’s not providing more than what the state allows correct? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Lait: Right so for projects – for qualifying State Density Bonus Projects they can take 1
advantage of a reduced parking standard and that parking standard is what we’ve modeled this 2
parking program after. 3
4
Vice-Chair Monk: Does Staff want to revisit or discuss further on C2 at all or are you satisfied 5
(interrupted) 6
7
Mr. Lait: C2? 8
9
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) Yeah [unintelligible] so are we already moving onto multi-family? 10
11
Vice-Chair Monk: On Page 29 – on the bottom of Page 29. 12
13
Mr. Lait: So, I – Chair can I – so I think what Staff is saying is that we plan on drafting an 14
ordinance based on the language that’s provided for in these Packet Pages here that we’re 15
going over. And unless we hear a clear majority of Commissioners agreeing that there needs to 16
be a shift or a move one way or the other you’re going to see an ordinance that reflects the 17
language in there. And we’re still fine tuning a couple of details but this is the approach that 18
we’re looking to advance, so I’m hearing a lot of individual comments and I think these are all 19
great. If there’s a majority perspective on changing something that’s feedback that would be 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
helpful for us. Otherwise I concur with Commissioner Alcheck’s comment about the number of 1
meetings that we take and how we’re moving the needle forward. I’ve heard that there’s stuff 2
in here that you – I’m pleased to hear that there are things in here that some of you like and 3
some of you don’t like, that each of you like things and don’t like things about this because 4
that’s frankly what our objective was in trying to craft this. 5
6
Chair Lauing: Yeah so, I mean if you’re asking for a hand vote or something I guess we could do 7
that on hot button items but it’s not a voting system tonight. 8
9
Mr. Lait: Yeah, I’m not suggesting that we vote but I’m letting – for expectations I guess what 10
I’m suggesting is that I’m hearing from a couple Commissioners that this is fine, maybe there 11
was a couple points to hit, and maybe that’s the way to go. Is that if there’s something in here 12
that is objectionable to somebody, maybe there’s a quick conversation about it (interrupted) 13
14
Chair Lauing: Yeah what I’m hearing is that there are still – let’s just take review process, there’s 15
probably at least three different ideas from six Commissioners but I also heard at least two of 16
them say it’s not going to get into the way if that’s the only thing that’s sitting here. So that’s 17
what I’m hearing, if there’s something really in the way that at some point is going to make you 18
vote against this ordinance then maybe we want to hear that. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Alcheck: (off mic) Who are the six, can you just tell – who are they? 1
2
Vice-Chair Monk: I think we’re ready to move onto the next section unless anyone has a 3
comment on C2? 4
5
Chair Lauing: No, no, I think that’s the opposite of what Director Lait is asking for because he 6
wants to get some ideas of if there needs to be a changed based on our probable majority 7
perspective at the next meeting which is the first time that we’re going to see the ordinance. 8
9
Commissioner Riggs: I’ve had my light on for a little while maybe I can (interrupted) 10
11
Chair Lauing: Yeah so let’s take that into consideration here because starting with any of them, 12
if there’s something that sort of like a non-starter then let’s have a quick discussion. And maybe 13
we do have to do a hand vote because if it’s 5-1 that’s one thing. Commissioner Riggs. 14
15
Commissioner Riggs: Well I – sorry, I don’t – the funny part is it wasn’t a non-starter as written 16
but a non-starter is reducing the number of meetings further. That’s a non-starter for me, I – if 17
we take that thing away I’m going to ask for (interrupted) 18
19
Chair Lauing: Reducing the number of ARB meetings? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Riggs: Reducing the number of meetings with – this is already reduction, this is 2
already streamlining. Trying to noodle it and streamline it more I’m not supportive of that. 3
4
Commissioner Alcheck: Can I just ask a quick question? 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: I’m not done. 7
8
Commissioner Alcheck: Just quickly. 9
10
Commissioner Riggs: Yeah, go ahead. 11
12
Commissioner Alcheck: Let’s say we’re at the next meeting, the ordinance that they bring 13
forward has that item, you don’t like it, you’re going to make that point and then we’re going to 14
vote and you’re still going to support the overlay. I mean (interrupted) 15
16
Commissioner Riggs: No, I’ll abstain. 17
18
Commissioner Alcheck: You’ll abstain from the whole Work Plan because of this issue? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Riggs: Yep, yeah, absolutely. 1
2
Commissioner Alcheck: Ok, well (interrupted) 3
4
[note- many Commissioners started talking at once] 5
6
Commissioner Alcheck: I’m glad we now know that, let’s move on. What are the concerns that 7
the majority is going to (interrupted) 8
9
Commissioner Riggs: No, you interrupted me. 10
11
Chair Lauing: Right. 12
13
Commissioner Riggs: I think this .75 in the Affordable Housing Overlay is actually something 14
that needs to be resolved. I think its disparity between the plans, I think it’s a point of conflict, 15
and I think it will get messy unless there’s – unless they are brought into consistency. That’s 16
actually something that hopefully there’s agreement on because it’s -- it’s very clearly 17
conflicting standards for the same geography. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Ok but I’m saying – I’m agreeing with Director Lait that if there’s things that are 1
deal breakers then we need to know about those. So, you’re saying – I know so why 2
(interrupted) 3
4
Vice-Chair Monk: Can we take a – can I make a motion on that and just let’s make a motion to 5
put it to bed? 6
7
Chair Lauing: We don’t need a motion. If you would just state what you’re saying and then we 8
can see if you are joined by two people or five people. 9
10
Vice-Chair Monk: Commissioner Riggs and myself agree that this should be matching with the 11
Affordable Housing Overlay. 12
13
Chair Lauing: I was – sorry, I was still on review process which is the first thing that you brought 14
up. Can I have your attention, please guys? Review process, tell us specifically what you think 15
needs to be change and we’ll see if there’s support. You think ARB should be three meetings. 16
17
Commissioner Riggs: I think that we shouldn’t try to change Item One Option B which was what 18
suggested – was what was suggested. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: From [unintelligible – crosstalk] (interrupted) 1
2
Commissioner Riggs: I am not supportive of changing that. 3
4
Chair Lauing: No change at all? 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: No change from what is written here which is already a change. 7
8
Chair Lauing: Ok, got it so how many people (interrupted) 9
10
Commissioner Riggs: And I can explain why but nobody wants me to. 11
12
Chair Lauing: No, I think you did but go ahead. 13
14
Vice-Chair Monk: No, no let’s move on, he already did. 15
16
Commissioner Riggs: That’s ok. 17
18
Chair Lauing: Ok so how many people agree with him because that’s the kind of direction that 19
Director Lait needs. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Lait: So, listen, I’m sorry, I don’t want to confuse this anymore. 2
3
Vice-Chair Monk: Such a minor issue. 4
5
Mr. Lait: I agree, it is a minor issue, I’ve heard the comments, I’m not hearing overwhelming 6
support for changing (interrupted) 7
8
Commissioner Riggs: And so, it’s not a change. 9
10
Mr. Lait: It to two so I think we can just move on (interrupted) 11
12
Chair Lauing: Ok, fine. 13
14
Mr. Lait: And look for the –what – is there anything about this ordinance – maybe it’s best not 15
to go down the line but just maybe by Commissioner, Commissioner and just say what’s in here 16
that you find objectionable and have a conversation about that. 17
18
Chair Lauing: Except that we’re not going to benefit from our colleague’s comment on that. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Alcheck: (off mic) Yeah, we are. 1
2
Vice-Chair Monk: (off mic) Yeah, we are. 3
4
Mr. Lait: Why couldn’t you? 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: Ok so yeah if you don’t mind Chairmen I’ll just do that. 7
8
Chair Lauing: Go. 9
10
Commissioner Riggs: I have one other thing that bugs me about this. 11
12
Chair Lauing: Go. 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: I – option – on Page 31, Item Three, I don’t like the optional consideration 15
for PTC, I would probably strike that. Item Three I, Page 31. 16
17
Commissioner Gardias: I’m sorry I’m just (interrupted) 18
19
Commissioner Riggs: Packet Page 31. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Gardias: I’m sorry to interrupt you but can we just maintain some order. We 2
were just focusing on one item, City wide. If we’re just going to be done with this let’s move to 3
another one. Let’s just be clear to everybody so (interrupted) 4
5
Vice-Chair Monk: Yeah, he’s in the down (interrupted) 6
7
Commissioner Gardias: We know where we are and what we’re doing. 8
9
Vice-Chair Monk: He moved onto the Downtown District. 10
11
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. 12
13
Chair Lauing: No (interrupted) 14
15
Vice-Chair Monk: Right? 16
17
Chair Lauing: Multi-family is the next one. 18
19
Commissioner Riggs: Alright sorry, I thought (interrupted) 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice-Chair Monk: No. 2
3
Chair Lauing: So, let’s go with that process on multi-family which maybe there’s nothing. You 4
have anything? No. You have anything? 5
6
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah [unintelligible – off mic] 7
8
Chair Lauing: On multi-family? 9
10
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, I’ll speak on multi-family. 11
12
Chair Lauing: Wow, it’s only like six lines. 13
14
Commissioner Alcheck: If we’re going to go one by one then I’ll just say one by one I support 15
the liberalization of this entire process. I think this is going to come down – I think that the – I 16
think that those who are concerned about this are likely to carry the day. And so again the 17
question is, what items are you having a hard time stomaching so that maybe we can have a 18
discussion on that and I can encourage you to feel more comfortable with it. If I can’t sway you 19
then next week we know how you’re going to vote. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: Right so we need to know if anybody has objections there? 2
3
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, I mean I guess point is I would support over liberalization of these 4
policies (interrupted) 5
6
Chair Lauing: I know, we know. 7
8
Commissioner Alcheck: So, what do you not support? 9
10
Chair Lauing: So, let’s move onto the next person. Commissioner Monk [note- Vice-Chair 11
Monk]. 12
13
Vice-Chair Monk: I agree that we need to look at the in-lieu parking so I’d like to move onto 14
Downtown Zoning District. 15
16
Chair Lauing: You have no comments on Number Two multi? 17
18
Vice-Chair Monk: Correct. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel. 1
2
Commissioner Waldfogel: No comments on Number Two. 3
4
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Gardias. 5
6
Commissioner Gardias: No comment. 7
8
Chair Lauing: Ok so Three is downtown. 9
10
Commissioner Alcheck: [unintelligible – off mic] 11
12
Chair Lauing: So, it passes. 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: Do you want me to start off? 15
16
Chair Lauing: Fine, Commissioner Riggs, downtown. 17
18
Commissioner Riggs: Alright so I guess for the Downtown CDC Zoning District I guess the only – 19
I’m fine with this. The only thing that I see is I don’t understand the ration (interrupted) 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
[note- many people were talking off mic] 2
3
Chair Lauing: Back at the mics. 4
5
Vice-Chair Monk: What? 6
7
Commissioner Riggs: Commissioner Riggs is commenting. 8
9
Commissioner Riggs: That’s ok, I – [unintelligible]. I just – ok I just – I don’t have to repeat 10
myself, I’m not clear on the rational for the optional consideration. I have thought about this 11
from multi angles and I actually can’t – I don’t know the connection between housing 12
production and that or at least I can’t strongly justify the rational for that policy. So, I would 13
suggest not pursuing 3-I. 14
15
Chair Lauing: I’m sorry, perusing which one? 16
17
Commissioner Riggs: 3-I, I cannot strongly justify the connection with that with affordable 18
housing production, particularly since it deals with commercial uses. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Monk: It’s 3-H little i. 1
2
Commissioner Riggs: Is it 3H, little i? 3
4
Chair Lauing: No, it’s (interrupted) 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: Thank you, it is. 7
8
Chair Lauing: No, no. 9
10
Commissioner Riggs: Or is it 3-I? 11
12
Ms. Eisberg: It’s 3-I. 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: It’s 3-I. 15
16
Vice-Chair Monk: It’s confusing how it’s written. 17
18
Commissioner Riggs: Yeah because it’s (interrupted) 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Ok any other (interrupted) 1
2
Commissioner Riggs: I- I- I. 3
4
Chair Lauing: Any other comments on 3 then? 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: No, that’s good. 7
8
Vice-Chair Monk: Oh, it’s just I, sorry. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Gardias, your lights on for (interrupted) 11
12
Commissioner Gardias: For downtown? 13
14
Chair Lauing: Yeah. 15
16
Commissioner Gardias: Ok so yes so if we’re going from the last one I agree with Commissioner 17
Riggs. I don’t support any in-lieu fees and in this case parking. 18
19
Commissioner Waldfogel: This is to remove them. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Gardias: Oh sorry, this is to remove them, yes so yes so yes so this is – so I 2
actually agree with this point so thanks very much Commissioner Waldfogel but there’s a 3
couple of other items that I want to (interrupted) 4
5
[note- many people started talking off mic] 6
7
Commissioner Gardias: [unintelligible] 8
9
[note-Staff member:] [unintelligible – off mic] 10
11
Commissioner Gardias: Yes, I am on record but there’s a couple of minor items which I just 12
believe that they are not deal breakers but there are some items that we should not be having. 13
For example, establishing maximum housing units, I just don’t think that this is appropriate for 14
us just to – which is B. Yes, establishing the maximum housing unit for a size of 1,800- square 15
feet. It is just pretty much – I don’t think that we should not be just getting into this type of 16
control in the zoning. It just doesn’t look right and then I already spoke about the retail parking. 17
I don’t – I agree with exempting the first 1,500 of the square feet of ground floor parking 18
because -- and you have me on record on the prior – at the prior meeting. Thank you. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel. 1
2
Mr. Lait: If there’s any value in us explaining our rational behind some of those, at least 1,800-3
square feet, you let us know. 4
5
Chair Lauing: No, sure. I just thought other people might have comments but go ahead, that 6
could be helpful. 7
8
Ms. Eisberg: So, the thinking behind that was the concern about the construction of some 9
penthouse units downtown. In particular there’s [unintelligible] 5,000-square foot units that 10
may rent for $20,000-$30,000 a month and that being driven by the parking requirements. So, 11
some developers are putting that large unit because they can get two parking spaces than 12
where as they did four smaller units and needed the eight parking spaces required, they can’t 13
actually fit that on the site. So, it’s a combination of the parking problem resulting in a large 14
unit size, that was the rational behind it. I understand you’re comment that maybe it’s to 15
controlling but that was our thinking. 16
17
Commissioner Riggs: But did you feel like you needed the parking – so we’re trying to hit on 18
both policies. Do you need the square footage maximum and the policy? I actually kind of think 19
that’s an astute point. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Gardias: No, I mean this is just a – you know when I see things like this it just 2
resembles me and remind me the name of the guy that was trying to just create the perfect 3
man? He was just – created the form and was just cutting of the feet, part of the fingers – some 4
fingers, so tip of your head just to pretty much squeeze the man to the required form so I just 5
think that this is from the same perspective. Sorry for the brutal example but I guess simply 6
don’t – I agree with the thinking that if somebody wants to have the roof top pent house it’s 7
going to be probably one, maybe two in the entire City. 8
9
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel is next. 10
11
Commissioner Waldfogel: (Off mic) Ok well let me – let me speak to these points and then I 12
have a more general question that I just need some clarification on. On the unit size I 13
understand we’re trying to balance between the desire to produce more units and – but we 14
also have another policy goal which is over time I think we’d like to see some people move out 15
of houses and potentially move into some units that we build downtown. And so, if we limit 16
them we probably won’t achieve that second goal of freeing up some of the existing single-17
family houses. And I would suggest in the interest of balance maybe we limit it to 10 percent; 18
20 percent of the development can be units above 1,800-square feet. So, we just have some 19
threshold so we can somehow accommodate both goals. I mean I’m making this up as I go so I 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
don’t want to push to hard on kind of what that percentage ought to be. On the rail parking 1
exemption, I’m ok with that, I think that that’s just a necessary evil. On the in-lieu parking you 2
know we really need to review that program but I think that our in-lieu parking for office has 3
really put a thumb on the scale for office over residential so we really have to look at this. 4
5
But I would like some clarification on the FARs because I’m just having trouble reasoning this 6
out. So, what are – what is the maximum FAR – what is the maximum developable office FAR in 7
the Downtown District net of all TDRs and all other privileges versus the maximum proposed 8
residential FAR net of all the HIP or other programs. I just want to know where – do we net out 9
to a bigger number for residential, the same number, where does it net? 10
11
Mr. Lait: 2.0 for commercial. 12
13
Commissioner Waldfogel: And that’s net of everything? 14
15
Mr. Lait: Yeah. 16
17
Commissioner Waldfogel: TDRs, everything? 18
19
Mr. Lait: Yeah. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok. 2
3
Mr. Lait: That’s not a mixed-use project but that’s commercial. 4
5
Ms. Eisberg: (off mic) Unless you are a hotel. 6
7
Mr. Lait: Hotels are different, putting hotels (interrupted) 8
9
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok, hotels are 3.0, right? 10
11
Mr. Lait: Yeah 2.0 plus a TDR. 12
13
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok so office is 2.0, hotel is 3.0 and residential will be? 14
15
Mr. Lait: 3.0 as proposed. 16
17
Commissioner Waldfogel: 3.0 and what’s the 4.0 that’s on Slide 13? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Lait: And so, the report doesn’t say 4.0, the slide provides an example of what it could be 1
to incentive affordable housing is what – this is in response to Item 3-H romanette five, optional 2
consideration, right above the in-lieu one. And so, we were saying if the Commissioner thought 3
that we weren’t going far enough on affordable housing, another alternative to consider is 4
more FAR for affordable housing but we’d also thing that you’d probably need more height also 5
downtown. 6
7
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok so this is sort of AH on steroids? 8
9
Mr. Lait: AH? 10
11
Commissioner Waldfogel: Mild steroids. 12
13
Mr. Lait: Yeah or (interrupted) 14
15
Ms. Eisberg: [unintelligible – off mic] AH Overlay? 16
17
Mr. Lait: Oh, I’ll refrain from the steroid comment but it does give a boost to affordable 18
housing. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok so but what’s in front of us the base plan is 3.0 for housing, 3.0 – 1
existing 3.0 for hotel and 2.0 for office? Ok, good, that’s – I need to noodle on that a little bit 2
but I just – I was having trouble just reasoning out to all those numbers. 3
4
Mr. Lait: Right. 5
6
Commissioner Waldfogel: I think they are important. Ok thank you. 7
8
Mr. Lait: And yeah, 3.0 could be achieved today (interrupted) 9
10
Chair Lauing: Is your light on? 11
12
Mr. Lait: Through TDRs in mixed-use development. 13
14
Vice-Chair Monk: [unintelligible – off mic] 15
16
Chair Lauing: No, wait, that’s ok we got other lights. 17
18
Commissioner Alcheck: [unintelligible – off mic] 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Alcheck. 1
2
Commissioner Alcheck: Ok two things so I’m fondly remembering Commissioner Rosenblum’s 3
time on our Commission. He used to always encourage us not to use a stick, instead use a 4
carrot. I understand optics of the 5,000-square foot pent house apartment over the office 5
building on whatever it is around the corner and its massive rent. I totally get it. I don’t – it’s not 6
– I don’t know that I approach my dissatisfaction with that item in the same way that 7
Commissioner Gardias is but I think we get the same result which is to say let’s not say you 8
can’t have a unit that’s greater than 1,800-square feet. Let’s create an incentive to encourage a 9
residential developer to build many small units as opposed to a few large ones. So, let’s – 10
maybe – I mean 1,800 is the most you – someone decided 1,800, that’s a big unit, no one needs 11
a bigger unit than 1,800 but maybe what we really want to see is a lot of 500 and 1,100 – 500-12
foot units and maybe 1,100-foot 3-bedrooms. You know something more of a – the point I’m 13
trying to make is if we want to encourage many small units let’s create an incentive as opposed 14
to a limit that has absolutely no real communicative purpose other than to say we really don’t 15
want any more $16,000 a month penthouse. Great but what we really want is for that person to 16
have put four units on his thing and maybe we would have suggested a lower parking standard 17
if they would do that. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
I think this concept of the in-lieu parking, it’s like we already got the cap, we have the annual 1
limit, the issue isn’t making office so impossible that somehow residential will get built. It’s 2
about making residential on the same playing field. I don’t by – it’s not that I don’t buy into it, I 3
know from my personal private practice that there – office space is not more valuable than 4
residential. It’s just you can build a lot more of it in most of the Zoning Codes in the Bay Area on 5
the same piece of property when you – the intensity of what you can build with a residential 6
project. And so, if we can mirror sort of the intensity that you can get with office in the 7
residential format we’ll see it. And so, look, it’s not worth the fight, this paragraph, I just don’t 8
know that it necessarily improves the work – I think it’s a Red Herring. People are going to be 9
like stop letting them build those projects without parking them, fine. Those projects aren’t 10
getting built because of the cap and a number of other reasons probably. The question is let’s 11
not spend to much time fighting about that, let’s try to make the incentives for residential more 12
– I mean I thought it was – I thought you know what would be interesting is if that paragraph 13
said why don’t you explore the idea of in-lieu parking for residential projects. It’s like 14
blasphemy but I just want to highlight the fact that everybody’s beloved residential project, the 15
President Hotel, we can’t build in today’s environment. It’s too tall and doesn’t have parking 16
and yet everybody seems to love it. And so, I think one of the questions – I love the idea of an 17
AH on steroids in our downtown and I think we should – its not that our recommendation 18
should be that Council adopt the – this plan with maximum parking standards simply because 19
we say so. I think what are recommendation should be is there – we are using – they are using 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
parking maximums all over the Bay Area and the State of California. Its worth a deep dive into 1
whether you can tolerate that in our downtown for example or within very close proximity to 2
High Speed Rail or something. And maybe (interrupted) 3
4
Chair Lauing: Ok. 5
6
Commissioner Alcheck: It’s the same with the height in – look I get it, you’re rushing every 7
single time I get this mic. It’s (interrupted) 8
9
Chair Lauing: Let’s just say that’s not my impression. 10
11
Commissioner Alcheck: Every time I’m on the mic I feel like you’re cutting me down. I need you 12
to let me finish. I think that the biggest thing missing from this section is the height bullet and I 13
know that it’s controversial. And I’m not saying Staff has to take a position on it but Staff needs 14
to put it on the table and say this is a hurdle. There is no project – any lot that’s smaller than 15
1,500-square feet is not going to be attractive. You can’t build underground parking if it’s 16
smaller than 10, that’s never going to happen. I don’t know if any of you saw that letter we got 17
from the developer of the Windy Hill project and I thought that was really interesting that he 18
came in, his projects moving. His projects been approved so this is – he’s just providing extra 19
guidance now and I thought that was really interesting that he was like we’ve had – you know 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
what would be great, let’s find out, what were the 20 projects he passed on? He said over two 1
dozen projects that he looked at in Cal Ave and downtown that they couldn’t move forward on 2
because of – I think that’ we’re not being honest with ourselves when we suggest that the size 3
of our lots is a big problem if we don’t start considering height. So, my biggest issue here and I 4
don’t think there’s a consensus – I don’t think there’s even close to a majority of individuals 5
who would support the inclusion of it but I think it’s a mistake to not say from Staff perspective 6
this is a big hurdle and we’re not even really touching it. 7
8
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Monk [note- Vice-Chair Monk] 9
10
Vice-Chair Monk: Just going down quickly on the list I agree with proposals for unit density. I’m 11
glad that you gave us some information on unit size. I am a little concerned about regulating 12
the maximum square footage and I think that when you send this to Council if you could just let 13
them know what the rational is behind it. Because I think it is problematic to limit housing size 14
and I’d rather when you send this to Council to maybe send some ideas of those “carrots” that 15
Commissioner Alcheck eluded too. I’m not saying to take it out but I have reservation on it. 16
17
Retail parking, did we discuss the 1,500-square foot? Ok fine. I would expand but we already 18
discussed it. Agreed on all the other items. Going to the optional consideration I think that for 19
Affordable Housing we should go up to a greater FAR with 4.0 and if we need – if that would 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
require changing height to 11-feet to add another floor to achieve that I would support that 1
and would like to advance to advance that notion to Council. 2
3
Parking here I think would be the same as what we have in the Affordable Housing Overlay, 4
that’s what I would advance in this section as well. Thank you. 5
6
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Riggs, your lights on. Ok. Commissioner Gardias. 7
8
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. So, first part on my classical upbringing collapses so the 9
reference for you is the mustiest. The man that was just trying to create the perfect man was 10
the mustiest so I’m putting this on record for those that don’t know. So, I just want to bring a 11
couple other points, so in terms of the open space on the roof tops I disagree that – with that. I 12
just believe that this is not the – and we’re talking about the downtown right? 13
14
Ms. Eisberg: [unintelligible – off mic] 15
16
Commissioner Gardias: Yes, yes, it’s just pretty much I think that – I already argued about this, 17
it’s just if you want to -- repetition about this. It’s not going to be as used as the ground open 18
space and then for this reason it will just be an excuse to reduce true amenity for some, an 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
ersatz [That’s a word which means something of a lesser value, substitute of a lesser value if 1
you want the German translation. That’s what it is. 2
3
There’s another item that I want to just touch upon and this is my question to the Staff. There is 4
a transfer of development rights for the downtown and my question to you is like this, would 5
you be – would you consider and would you find of value of having TDR in the Cal Ave area? 6
7
Mr. Lait: So, adding that policy of TDRs to Cal Ave? Yeah, I don’t think we’re prepared to 8
comment on that. That’s not something that we’ve looked at. 9
10
Commissioner Gardias: If you could just please I’d be supportive of this and I know that TDR is 11
mainly focused for historical buildings. So, it may be not the discussion that we can just have 12
because of the time crunch but we can just look at the TDR from a greater perspective just to 13
allow people for farther flexibility and maybe expand it later on from historical to other 14
properties. But then for now if we can just have a quick win, if we can just have TDR for Cal Ave 15
I totally support it, thank you. 16
17
Chair Lauing: Ok I just have a couple quick comments. I was going to ask that question as well, 18
the TDR, as I read this, it doesn’t change at all in downtown, right? Ok just wanted to confirm 19
that. Over to the optional considerations, as I understand the second one I do think that would 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
be an incentive to – I would agree with this. That we should really take a hard look at this issue 1
because I do think it kind of shifts the playing field just a little bit. Whereas on the optional 2
consideration for PTC, the one above it, I feel like we’re going pretty far already but I wouldn’t 3
fight that one to the mat because I’m totally supportive of affordable housing. And I understand 4
the arguments on the square footage both ways so that’s one where we might have to split the 5
baby. That’s all mine, so if there’s no other comments we can go onto California Avenue. Light 6
up the boards. 7
8
Commissioner Waldfogel: (off mic) I’ll jump into that one. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Sure, Commissioner Waldfogel. 11
12
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, I mean it’s substantially the same, the only thing I would say we 13
should think about is the urban condition on Cal Ave is a little different than downtown. And so, 14
the 75 percent open space on the roof might be an ok standard downtown but I wonder if we 15
need a different standard on Cal Ave but again, absent massing studies it’s hard for me to 16
visualize – you know I don’t want to make up a number. But I just – it feels like Cal Ave is a little 17
more open than downtown as an urban environment so let’s keep that in mind. 18
19
Chair Lauing: That all? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Waldfogel: That’s all. 2
3
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Riggs. 4
5
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) Well I want to underscore on this one, I will – I am supportive of 6
the optional consideration for the PTC. Oh shoot, on this one I am supportive of the optional 7
consideration for PTC. I think it’s super progressive for this are, I’m actually wondering if that 8
community is ready for this and if the Council is ready for this but I would totally think that 9
would be awesome down there. I am referring to F-3 which is the optional consideration for the 10
PTC to allow for 100 percent affordable housing project to achieve 2.5 FAR and 50-feet height 11
within located between – basically between a half mile from the Cal Ave. I actually think this is 12
not – we have housing that is this tall already in this area or at least close to it so I don’t think 13
its that dramatic although it maybe not be right on Cal. Ave. But I think this would be a great 14
thing to endorse and move forward. 15
16
Chair Lauing: Can we just get quick Staff feedback? Is 50-feet there now? 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ms. Eisberg: Yes, so the PTOD designation, that Pedestrian Transit Oriented Overlay, allows 50-1
feet for below market rate projects so that’s maybe why it doesn’t seem that different than 2
what’s (interrupted) 3
4
Chair Lauing: How close is that to actually California Ave? 5
6
Ms. Eisberg: That is one in the same so that PTOD Overlay is eligible in the Cal Ave area, it just 7
needs to be legislatively applied. So, this (interrupted) 8
9
Commissioner Riggs: Which is the same project that the Windy Hill did not take advantage of – 10
no, they didn’t. Never mind, shut up. 11
12
Ms. Eisberg: I think that it’s – that was just outside (interrupted) 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: That was just outside the PTOD. 15
Ms. Eisberg: There are two projects that have taken advantage of it, they are fairly small. 16
17
Commissioner Waldfogel: [unintelligible – off mic] 18
19
Ms. Eisberg: The PTOD? No. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Waldfogel: [unintelligible – off mic] 2
3
Ms. Eisberg: I don’t think so. 4
5
Commissioner Gardias: [unintelligible – off mic] 6
7
Commissioner Waldfogel: [unintelligible – off mic] 8
9
Commissioner Riggs: It would probably be – Mr. Chair, it probably would be good to maybe get 10
consensus on that item unless there’s (interrupted) 11
12
Chair Lauing: Yeah, no we’re still trying to get clarification from Jean. 13
14
Commissioner Waldfogel: (off mic) We’re just talking about the CC-2 District, right? 15
16
Ms. Eisberg: Right. 17
18
Commissioner Waldfogel: [unintelligible – off mic] Is that correct? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Lait: Yes, just the CC-2 (interrupted) 1
2
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah just CC-2. 3
4
Mr. Lait: And probably not in the PTOD boundary. 5
6
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Riggs this is just in the CC-2. 7
8
Mr. Lait: Not. No, I can show you a map but it’s (interrupted) 9
10
Ms. Eisberg: The Fry’s site is outside of the PTOD Overlay eligible area but obviously is in the 11
North Ventura Coordinated Area Plan Process that’s moving forward now. 12
13
Chair Lauing: I think the visual question for citizens is this 50-foot, how close to California 14
Avenue can it be? Are you saying it could be right next door to (interrupted) 15
16
Ms. Eisberg: And right now, today it could be on California Avenue (interrupted) 17
18
Chair Lauing: Next to Starbucks or something like that? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ms. Eisberg: Yes, except that you’d have to do ground floor retail so it wouldn’t be 100 percent 1
residential but if you got the PTOD Overlay today you could get to 50-feet of height even on 2
California Avenue if you had the right site. 3
4
Commissioner Riggs: Can I add one more thing here? 5
6
Chair Lauing: Sure. 7
8
Commissioner Riggs: I do think that the – that this condition or this additional language needs 9
work because it doesn’t have a clear AMI associated with it and that was one of the other 10
things I was going to mention. It says at a specified AMI and I don’t know what you’re meaning 11
there. 12
13
Mr. Lait: Yeah, that was just to give the Commission some latitude in conversation. From our 14
perspective affordable housing is 120 percent AMI and below. 15
16
Commissioner Riggs: Well I am always going to support – I mean I would say 120 percent but I’d 17
always nudge it a little higher because we don’t have great workforce policy but I don’t – I don’t 18
see that anywhere – that workforce piece or that middle housing in here anywhere. So maybe 19
that’s a place where we can talk about an opportunity for – to take advantage of this for 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
workforce housing just the same as we talked about it for the Windy Hill property. I’ll through 1
that out there as an idea. 2
3
Commissioner Waldfogel: [unintelligible – off mic] 4
5
Chair Lauing: Question from Commissioner Waldfogel. 6
7
Commissioner Waldfogel: Well let me tell you what I struggle about with some of those 8
standards which is I’m very supportive of housing that we can direct say toward families at 9
$140,000 a year income. What I struggle over is if we set up units that then end up with 2-year 10
out of school, $140,000 a year single people. I don’t feel like we’ve achieved a wonderful policy 11
goal. I mean you may not struggle with that the way that I do but a question is sort of how do 12
we make it so it’s affordable and attractive to families and that’s actually what we get. 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: So, I think in my opinion is this a – I mean this is partially – I would say this 15
it partially academic based and partially opinion but I think that a lot of this is based on the Fair 16
Housing Act we can’t prohibit who’s going to go into those units. That’s cut and dry, we cannot 17
discriminate against that just like we can’t discriminate – a family can’t discriminate against that 18
young person that’s going into that unit. So that’s item one but also, I think that’s there’s an 19
issue with unit type right now and that a lot of what’s in here is incentivizing smaller unit 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
typologies which may be not consistent with what a family or small family might be interested 1
in looking at. So, looking at more mixed-use three twos for example or townhome type – I 2
mean so the funny part is we brought up that issue of the 1,800-square foot limitation in 3
downtown but I mean that’s – how do we get more 1,800-square foot units on these larger lots. 4
5
Commissioner Waldfogel: So, I guess my question – I mean maybe this is a question for an 6
attorney but is there a way for us to promote 1,500-square foot units that families land in? Is 7
there a way for us to make that happen because if that’s what we’re trying – if that’s what we 8
get out of this then I’m really supportive. But if we’re creating those units and then they’re just 9
– it’s just a bigger unit for somebody who would have ended up in a micro unit or something I 10
don’t feel like we’ve done something (interrupted) 11
12
Commissioner Riggs: Yes, this is where I don’t like giving up the site design standards because 13
when a project first comes in you’re going to look at unit allocation and massing. And that’s 14
were one of the things we waive City wide in this is the first look at a project to look at unit mix 15
and massing. And that’s one of the first things we can actually weigh in on and I don’t think the 16
ARC [note- ARB] really focuses on that unit mix piece and that’s where I see it as. It’s a 17
discretionary thing that we look at in this – in the site design. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah but it’s -- like I say the issue is you have a 3-bedroom unit 1
which could have – it could have one person with high income, it could have three roommates 2
(interrupted) 3
4
Commissioner Riggs: Yeah [unintelligible] that code I think that’d be something as Jonathan or 5
(interrupted) 6
7
Commissioner Waldfogel: But that’s where I struggle with this discussion. 8
9
Commissioner Riggs: Unit mix standard, have you ever seen that? 10
11
Mr. Lait: We’d have to – we could certainly look into that. 12
13
[note – multiple people started talking at once off mic] 14
15
Mr. Lait: Emeryville, ok. 16
17
Chair Lauing: Did you want to comment? Was there a legal opinion requested there? I’m not 18
sure I just didn’t want to (interrupted) 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Albert Yang, Senior Deputy Attorney: I’m not sure that I heard a clear question. 1
2
Commissioner Riggs: Do such a thing as unit mix standards exist? Things where you can set a 3
threshold. 4
5
Ms. Eisberg: I’ve seen it in Emeryville. You can think maybe 10 -15-years ago they built a lot of 6
studio, 1-bedroom, it was more young professionals and so they made a shift in their General 7
Plan about 10-years ago and wanted to build more family friendly units. And part of that was 8
incorporated in a similar local density bonus program where you got sort of goodies, additional 9
density bonus, if you did 3-bedroom units. And then there was some design standards around 10
the lobby entrance and accommodating strollers and things like that. 11
12
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) Oh actually I think San Francisco used those on the (interrupted) 13
14
Chair Lauing: Mic, Mic. 15
16
Commissioner Riggs: Yeah so, I think San Francisco used those on the – not Infinity Towers but 17
the ones that are near Civic Center. I can’t remember the name of those projects, the three 18
buildings that were right next to BART. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Alcheck did you have other comments on Cal Ave? 1
2
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah so, a lot of the comments I made on the downtown I think apply 3
to Cal Ave in some respects, specifically with the height issues. I will suggest on this particular 4
topic that I think it’s a mistake to get into the weeds on unit mix. I think that the development 5
community is far more efficient in responding to the demand. I think one of the interesting – 6
you know you mentioned that the developments will always favor small units. I don’t know that 7
that’s true, I think it’s interesting that we just had a discussion about creating a maximum unit 8
size which suggests that we’ve had a probably with getting people to build small units. Right, 9
that’s the suggestion? 10
11
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) No, what I [unintelligible]. 12
13
Commissioner Alcheck: No, I think there’s a suggestion that without that limit some people 14
might build these massive apartments. So, I think you can make the argument both ways is my 15
point. I think one of the things that we have to keep in mind is that we can’t look at our housing 16
supply and say ok, we don’t want to just encourage one kind of housing. The truth is that we 17
already do encourage one kind of housing massively in this community and that’s the single-18
family home. It’s the vast number of units and so the idea here is creating alternatives to the 19
single-family home for individuals who the single-family home is not what they’re looking for. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So, I think in this particular instance I don’t know that we have to work to hard to get what the 1
community needs. I think there is a likely hood that we’re going to see unit mixes of studios, 2
ones, and maybe 2-bedrooms but look you just saw a project that was all studio and ones. All of 3
that was affordable but look at the work force housing one, that’s also small unit mix and the 4
point there I’m trying to make is that these are 100 total units in a sea of three, four, five, six 5
7,000-square foot homes. 6
7
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) Can I get the last word? 8
9
Commissioner Alcheck: I guess my point is I really think we let the market do this and it – and I 10
think you don’t discount the single-family homes in the unit mix when you’re thinking about 11
Citywide unit mix. 12
13
Commissioner Riggs: My last word, if I can have the last word, is that I think Commissioner 14
Waldfogel’s concern is actually highly valid and that we need to be attentive to that. Yes, unit 15
production, this urgency on unit production is fine but all of us that I’m aware of except for 16
Commissioner Monk [note -Vice-Chair Monk] live in a single-family home and there aren’t many 17
options. If you want to live in a three two somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000-square feet in 18
Palo Alto there aren’t many options for you and I think that’s a fact. And I don’t know – I don’t 19
see the private market is producing that type, 1,000-2,000-square foot three twos that are 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
affordable. And so that would just be I think something that we should pay attention too and I 1
agree with you Commissioner Waldfogel. 2
3
Commissioner Waldfogel: (Off mic) Yes, we just have to solve for that. 4
5
Chair Lauing: Yeah. 6
7
Vice-Chair Monk: Is it possible to – you know you’re using some terminology that was new to 8
me tonight but controlling the design such that if we want to encourage families that if it’s a 2-9
bedroom they are not equally created so that two roommates could live there. It would be 10
really for a family where the second bedroom is really a smaller bedroom and therefore if it’s 11
just a percentage of the master bedroom then they’ll have a reduced parking requirement. 12
Maybe that would encourage great unit production versus that penthouse type of thing we’re 13
looking at. I don’t know if that’s a possibility but that might be a way getting around the legal 14
implications of saying who can live where. 15
16
Chair Lauing: Ok let’s move on to the adjacency to El Camino and Staff I would ask you first to 17
talk about the nodes and corridors. We just briefly touched on that in the pre-meeting 18
yesterday but address what you want to now or if you want to pull something out of here let us 19
know how you want to do that. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ms. Eisberg: Ok so I mentioned this briefly in the initial presentation but so the idea for this 2
emanated out of the self (interrupted) 3
4
Chair Lauing: Hang on, we don’t have everybody yet. 5
6
Vice-Chair Monk: Yeah Jean, there’s some talking and also just before we move on we’ll let 7
them finish their side bar over there but I do support the optional consideration for PTC as well 8
and would even support going greater on FAR. 9
10
Mr. Lait: We’ll just – on that topic I’m only hearing from a couple of Commissioners on that 11
optional item for Cal Ave, is that right? I’ve heard – we’ve heard from Commissioner Riggs and 12
Commissioner Monk [note -Vice-Chair Monk] supporting up to 2.5 FAR and 50-feet which is 13
(interrupted) 14
15
Commissioner Waldfogel: Well I’ll say I think if we could solve this unit mix problem in some 16
practical legal way I could support bigger numbers. It’s just I don’t want to do it without actually 17
solving the problem we’re setting out to solve and I don’t know if that’s possible. 18
19
Mr. Lait: Ok. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Yang: Yeah so, I guess I’ll just jump in because there have been a couple of comments 2
about encouraging certain families as opposed to room mates or something like that. I think we 3
have the ability to regulate unit mix with the idea that perhaps multi-bedroom units are more 4
attractive to families but the more specific and directed that we get is towards trying to favor 5
families as opposed to groups of people who are room mates that’s when we’re starting to get 6
into hot water. So, I guess I’d suggest there’s probably some things that we can do but I 7
wouldn’t want to promise Commissioner Waldfogel for example that we could really hone on 8
this specific issue that you’re interested in. 9
10
Vice-Chair Monk: Albert to that I just – I think there’s consensus around looking at unit mix 11
though to solve for it and maybe checking with developers and finding out if these 2-bedrooms 12
are really built equally in size. I think that would really address the issue. 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: I would specify, I mean I think that Commissioner Waldfogel and I are 15
referring too is our low income to moderate market place and what we’re talking about here is 16
100 percent affordable. What we’re seeing is that predominantly those are smaller unit types 17
that are coming in and what we’re not solving for are low income families and because we’re 18
providing a market – a typology that maybe doesn’t sometime match the market place. And so, 19
I think that’s just something we have to be really attentive to with this whole ordinance. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Waldfogel: And that’s exactly why I raised the question with the earlier project 2
we saw earlier. There are exactly three units in that project that might support even 3
(interrupted) 4
5
Commissioner Riggs: This is not – this is affordable housing industry issue too so it’s not like a 6
Palo Alto issue. 7
8
Commissioner Alcheck: Well we get one project every decade right so we’re talking about – it’s 9
not that I – it’s a cost issue. I think you’re suggesting I want my affordable housing developers 10
to build family housing. I think if you create standards that require that it won’t be popular, 11
that’s all I’m saying. You want broad flexibility. 12
13
Chair Lauing: Alright nodes and corridors. 14
15
Commissioner Riggs: Yeah well did they get enough feedback to go with – I think there’s 16
consensus but did you get enough feedback from us to maybe come up with something that 17
response to that? 18
19
Chair Lauing: I think that was our ask, I think that was what we were asking. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Lait: Yeah, we’ll look into it as best we can. 2
3
Commissioner Riggs: Thanks, well I appreciate your interest and looking into it. 4
5
Mr. Lait: Well, we – it is complicated and I think that to do it right you got to – we got probably 6
spend a lot of time and we’re coming back – shipping out a Packet to you in one week. So, it’s 7
not of lack of interest, it’s focusing on the big picture of trying to move the ordinance forward. 8
9
Ms. Eisberg: So, El Camino Real, the nodes and corridor idea, so this is – if we think about the 10
Retail Preservation Ordinance and the requirements in the CN and CS there are trade offs that 11
we discussed here in the past about wanting to support ground floor retail along the corridor as 12
a whole versus wanting to support housing production. So, this is trying to locate a place in the 13
corridor where 100 percent retail may be appropriate and as I mentioned in my initial remarks 14
this particular – the blue outline on the screen and on the map is showing a location where it’s 15
just a little more mixed in terms of what’s on the ground floor now. There’re some larger sites, 16
there’s pretty tentative along the entire corridor, there’s actually not a lot of vacancies. We 17
know these are low rent opportunities for retail on El Camino which is attractive for many 18
different types of business. So again, this is a location where we’re suggesting that we could do 19
a 100 percent residential projects and then along with that (interrupted) 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: I understand this isn’t the (interrupted) 2
3
Ms. Eisberg: Sure. 4
5
Chair Lauing: Ordinance but the discussion here is things like seek Council support to conduct a 6
fee – a nexus – a fee nexus study. So, isn’t that a separate issue apart from the ordinance? 7
8
Ms. Eisberg: Yes. 9
10
Chair Lauing: Right so I’m wondering if that’s something we need to discuss right now? 11
12
Mr. Lait: You don’t, I think what we were trying to do is put into place a system where within 13
this sort of internode area a housing project – 100 percent housing project could go forward 14
but it couldn’t go forward until we’ve established this nexus fee. So, we wanted to put it into 15
the ordinance and then it would be activated at some point in the future when we’ve don’t the 16
study, we’ve developed the program and allowed for the provision. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Ok this – I mean this would be a perfect example of something that we’ll have to 1
see in the ordinance then because it seems like it’s so dependent on a lot more external data 2
that I don’t know how we’d put it in the ordinance. So, we’ll just (interrupted) 3
4
Mr. Lait: Yeah and the alternative is – I mean you would – it would say something to the effect 5
that at the point where the Council adopts – when the City adopts a fee nexus study for retail 6
waiver, at that point then a development would be able to take advantage of X, Y, Z. But we can 7
write it in there or alternatively we can have this conversation say yeah, we think that might 8
have value, let’s look at it in the future and not include it in this ordinance. That’s an option as 9
well. 10
11
Chair Lauing: Ok great, I just wanted you to have preliminary comments there. Commissioner 12
Gardias. 13
14
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you so I just want to make one observation about this and also 15
the drawings that were popularized among us which I believe that they were not reflecting the 16
true picture on El Camino. And I went there recently and I looked at this from perspective of the 17
retail. It is all retail throughout from left to right, all over, there is nothing like a node. I 18
understand there is a – by that sushi place and then California Pizza and Good Will, I know. It 19
looks like a node, this – there is this triangle because it is only because the node because there 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
are streets that are just going at the open angle and then create another opportunity for retail 1
to expand. That’s the only way, that’s the only reason but other wise along El Camino you have 2
retail on left and right. And then pretty much whatever zoning is going to be for retail there 3
should be retail in the ground floor because historically there was propensity to do – to sell 4
stuff for 200-years and then we should respect that. Of course, yes, we had this discussion of 5
affordable housing that’s a different story. I think it has been settled one way or the other. I 6
may not agree with this but it is what it is. It’s been settled so -- but otherwise I think this is 7
already throughout so all of those should retain retail and there should be no exclusion for 8
retail parking, for any other – or any other tries to diminish the value of the retail. That’s what I 9
wanted to say, thank you. 10
11
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel. 12
13
Commissioner Waldfogel: Let’s see, so I’m intrigued by this idea. I’m not sure I know enough to 14
act on it. What is your vision? I mean is your vision that these are the avenues in New York 15
versus the streets or sort of what’s the – I think this has to build into a vision of where El 16
Camino goes and how it works and it’s a little hard to just do this piece mill. 17
18
Ms. Eisberg: Yes, and I think things like the broader Grand Boulevard intuitive and what is this 19
corridor really look and feel like are important because it is a very big street. I mean even in this 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
location there’s only certain locations where you can cross maybe most safely with a signal. So, 1
we have sort of two priorities that we’ve heard from the Council. One about preserving retail 2
and one about increasing housing production and this is a place where there’s a real tension 3
between the two. 4
5
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah so how’s the conversation played out that [unintelligible] of El 6
Camino were sort of the last remaining cheap retail space in town. You know there’s reweaving 7
studio or functions like that that probably couldn’t survive in the downtown of Cal Ave Districts. 8
And there’s some value in a community to having spaces for those kinds of businesses so how 9
does – how do you see that evolving if we move in this direction? 10
11
Ms. Eisberg: That was part of the thinking behind this nexus study and the development of the 12
fee, is that could those – could that fund support some of those businesses within these nodes. 13
And maybe the node is not the best terminology for this because I recognize it’s strung out, it’s 14
not really just a circular form but if this fund was set up could that subsidize rents in some of 15
these locations to maintain that lower cost retail? Could it be used for façade improvements or 16
other tenant improvements upgrades? 17
18
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah like I said I am intrigued by it, I mean I think there’s some 19
thinking about that, about how this plays off of transit improvements, how the – how far will 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
people be walking if they’re – you know because I would assume the transit will be at the nodes 1
and then people would be walking through the corridors to their housing. So, I think there’s a 2
lot of complexity here and I’d like to encourage you to pursue it. I’m just not sure that – you 3
know I’m not sure I’m ready to act on it yet. 4
5
Chair Lauing: Is your light on? 6
7
Commissioner Riggs: Yeah, my lights on. 8
9
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Riggs. 10
11
Commissioner Riggs: Well given the direction of ecommerce and I actually think this is not a 12
great idea. I do not see this as a sustainable business model to promote small business along 13
the El Camino corridor. I don’t know why you would actually do this as an impediment to 14
building more housing – more affordable housing along the El Camino corridor. It seems to me 15
like putting an impact fee there makes it inconsistent with some of the Retail Preservation 16
waivers that we’ve actually – we’ve put in for Citywide. So, I don’t understand why – I mean 17
does that mean that the Citywide retail preservation for 100 percent affordable housing does 18
not apply in this location? Is that (interrupted) 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Lait: It does. 1
2
Commissioner Riggs: It does, ok, so this would be non-affordable projects? 3
4
Mr. Lait: (off mic) Yeah this would be (interrupted) 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: Alright so (interrupted) 7
8
Commissioner Alcheck: [unintelligible - off mic] 9
10
Commissioner Riggs: But they would be (interrupted) 11
12
Mr. Lait: [unintelligible] 13
14
Commissioner Riggs: Yeah it wouldn’t come – well I just – I’m – I guess I then would make the 15
recommendation similar to Commissioner Waldfogel. I don’t see it as ready for prime time yet, 16
it’s to unflushed out. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Waldfogel: [unintelligible – off mic] this is the kind of retail that I think will 1
survive. I mean a lot of these kind of – there’s a lot of these sort of high touch things that need 2
cheap space. 3
4
Commissioner Riggs: Right you’re a tailor or I mean like (interrupted) 5
6
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah and so I think that having places where those can land is 7
important. 8
9
Commissioner Riggs: I just don’t – whether or not it’s a subsidy program that’s funded by a – I 10
mean this is not a fund that’s going to be in existence for perpetuity. It may get three projects 11
and it’s not going to – it seems like a lot of bureaucratic – administrative cost for not a lot of 12
money. I don’t know. 13
14
Mr. Lait: Yeah, I agree, it’s a concept this is (interrupted) 15
16
Commissioner Riggs: It’s a great idea, I just don’t think it’s ready for prime time. [unintelligible -17
crosstalk] second Commissioner Waldfogel (interrupted) 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: I would concur on that which is why I asked the first question earlier but it just 1
seems a bit cart before the horse because we don’t have enough data and the tailor doesn’t 2
need an ecommerce site but is valuable to neighbors. And we have to drive to the tailor maybe 3
5-miles now because there aren’t enough of them so that is a good place. I agree with 4
Commissioner Waldfogel on that. So, I would really condense the stuff that we’re committing to 5
now on that whole corridor. And as Jean said the whole idea of the Grand Boulevard there also 6
has impacts, so some of that stuff I think has to get done before we can make a lot of changes 7
to this so I see this is as needing to be really condensed. 8
9
Mr. Lait: So, to be clear we’re going to jettison this from the ordinance. 10
11
Chair Lauing: Sorry? 12
13
Mr. Lait: We’re going to remove this from the ordinance. 14
15
Commissioner Riggs: I think that’s a good idea and I would – it’s not – I would just want to say 16
it’s super creative. It’s – I want to commend you, it’s very creative. It’s -- I think it’s just not 17
ready. 18
19
Mr. Lait: Thank you. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: Ok. Commissioner Gardias you have a comment? 2
3
Commissioner Gardias: I have a question actually, so like a week ago or so I proposed this 4
overlay. And I wanted to understand if you had a chance to incorporate it in this document, 5
that proposal or is this Number Five, property adjacent to El Camino, is this response to the 6
email that I sent to you? What’s the plan? 7
8
Mr. Lait: So, thank you for that email. We were kind of on our path of drafting this – these 9
recommendations and we didn’t really have time to engage and incorporate that. If there’s 10
elements of that that you want to bring out here and have that conversation this would be the 11
time to do that. But this reflects some of our analysis based on the outreach that we’ve done 12
and Staff recommendations. 13
14
Commissioner Gardias: So, if I – I hope that maybe there will be – as I expressed in my email 15
right I hope that maybe there will be some support among the colleagues to (interrupted) 16
17
Mr. Lait: Yeah again so we sent that to the rest of your colleagues (interrupted) 18
19
Commissioner Gardias: Yes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Lait: So, if there’s something that’s not in here that was part of that concept this is the time 2
to present that and see if there’s support. 3
4
Commissioner Gardias: Yes, yes but let me just allow some thinking behind this. For example, I 5
also included CC and CC2 in addition to CN, CS Zoning. And the reason was that I specifically 6
excluded – so in terms of inclusion CC2 I only had in mind of rezoning for that overlay – EL 7
Camino Overlay to some properties that are very close to El Camino. So, they would just get 8
additional boost over this with California Ave allows. And then in terms of the CC which I think 9
that Town and Country is part of CC which is specifically excluded because it’s included 10
throughout. But also, there are some properties where for example Garber has its architectural 11
studio there and there are properties on the other side of the parking that’s on the back side of 12
Town and Country that from my perspective they could be raised easily to 55-feet. And those 13
are the properties that are behind this affordable housing – affordable property – affordable 14
development that is on El Camino and between the rail road there’s a number of the lots that I 15
think that could just go up higher to 55. But then also the thinking I had behind this was to 16
increase density to 3.0, I think this was a proposal, I can even go higher, 55 was throughout all 17
of these zones along El Camino and also, I proposed the elimination of some site setbacks for 18
those properties if I remember correctly. I don’t have it in front of me and that was pretty much 19
from perspective of just allowing the retail to be – to create the wall of windows from El 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Camino. And then expand the syllable part of the retail, this front window – front display that 1
attracts the customer, that was the thinking behind this. Thanks. 2
3
Chair Lauing: Did anyone have comments on that? Commissioner Riggs. 4
5
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) I didn’t have any comments, I think some of my comments on it I 6
(interrupted) 7
8
Commissioner Alcheck: [unintelligible – off mic] 9
10
Chair Lauing: Let’s see, Commissioner Monk’s [note – Vice-Chair Monk] (interrupted) 11
12
Commissioner Riggs: Mike [note – Commissioner Alcheck] had a comment on it. 13
14
Chair Lauing: Yeah Commissioner Monk’s [note -Vice-Chair Monk’s] light was on, did you have a 15
comment on that? 16
17
Vice-Chair Monk: Separate. 18
19
Chair Lauing: Ok any comments on that Commissioner Alcheck? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Alcheck: I like the idea, I like his suggestions. I think there’s room in our 2
community to consider these bigger FAR ideas. I would support your suggestions because I 3
think we need to – I think it would be great if the City adopted some zone that they were 4
comfortable experimenting in and if this is that zone, fine. If this is a place we were can expand 5
the heights and the density and be comfortable with it because of its proximity to transit and 6
it’s the context of the area around it being intensely retail for example with the Town and 7
Country backdrop. I like your idea. 8
9
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel. 10
11
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. 12
13
Commissioner Riggs: Oh, did I get (interrupted) 14
15
Chair Lauing: Yeah, he was on first. 16
17
Commissioner Alcheck: Did I miss that email? Did you send that to all of us? 18
19
Commissioner Riggs: I didn’t get it either. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Lait: It should have come from our office. 2
3
Chair Lauing: I got it. 4
5
Mr. Lait: Ok. 6
7
Commissioner Waldfogel: (off mic) Did you have something to say about this? 8
9
Chair Lauing: Go ahead. 10
11
Commissioner Riggs: I had another – I had my thing on for another thing but I think it’s fine 12
idea. Yeah, I – sir? Oh, I think it’s a fine idea. I don’t – my only question for both of you now is 13
whether or not Staff can fold it into the ordinance but I think that – it’s a funny part – well 14
there’s – we could divide – debate some details of how this interplay with the ADU – statewide 15
ADU Ordinance which already give you additional lot coverage so yeah, that’s fine, yeah sure. I 16
– is there more talk on this topic or can I bring up one more thing? 17
18
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel where you going to comment on Commissioner 19
Gardias’s? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Waldfogel: Just one quick comment on the thing. I mean the direction I think 2
this is interesting. I’m not sure we can get to it in this scope but I mean I think all these ideas, I 3
mean having zoning to experiment in is an interesting idea. I don’t know if El Camino is the right 4
one or the wrong one because we have to work out the transitions to other housing zones. I 5
think that’s actually a giant discussion we need to have but probably next year, not this year. So 6
directionally I think there’s some good thinking here, just a question of when can we dive into it 7
a little deeper. 8
9
Chair Lauing: I concur with that. I think we have to do some experiments, not unlike we did on 10
the VTA lot with the initial work force housing. Ok Commissioner Riggs. 11
12
Commissioner Riggs: Well I guess I should ask permission Chair Lauing because I’m kind of done 13
with – I am fine with this. I actually have a bigger picture question so maybe I should ask 14
permission to (interrupted) 15
16
Chair Lauing: Yeah anything else on 5? 17
18
Vice-Chair Monk: Yeah, I’d like to speak to it. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Ok let’s just finish up 5 first. 1
2
Vice-Chair Monk: So, on the Housing Incentive Program have we gone far enough there in 3
looking now back at the Affordable Housing Ordinance to see if there’s opportunity to weave 4
any of those standards into this area? The landscaping or reduced open space? Also, there’s an 5
edit that we caught earlier I believe when I met with you Jonathan under H-2 around the GF 6
Combining District needing that language to come out. 7
8
Mr. Lait: Right in our prescreening or premeeting on Packet Page 33 we just need to strike the 9
reference to the GF Combining District which is a downtown reference. This is on H romanette 10
2, middle of that paragraph we would strike GF – well the reference to GF Combining District. 11
12
Vice-Chair Monk: So is there opportunity here to incorporate any of the AH standards like the 13
50-foot (interrupted) 14
15
Mr. Lait: Yeah so, I think – I know we’re sort of nearing the end of this and I think this has been 16
very helpful. One of the outstanding questions that I have in my mind and would benefit from 17
Commissioner discussion on is to what extent the Commission feels comfortable with us taking 18
the affordable housing – we’ve heard already from some of you. We didn’t hear from 19
everybody about taking the Affordable Housing Overlay standards that exist today which is 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
what you considered with the Wilton Court item tonight and incorporating those into this 1
process. And so that would allow for in these different zones that we’re amending affordable 2
housing projects to go to 50-feet and basically take these standards and apply them to this 3
ordinance. So that we’re not going through this additional legislative process and so it would be 4
helpful to know (interrupted) 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: I’ll vote for it. 7
8
Mr. Lait: Where the Commission is on that. 9
10
Commissioner Alcheck: [unintelligible – off mic] 11
12
Chair Lauing: I’d like to see it in sort of a comparison table like Jean is so good at putting 13
together. 14
15
Mr. Lait: And so, I guess what I would say it’s the same standard that exist today. The only 16
difference that we would be making is you don’t have to go through the legislative process to 17
apply it to your property. 18
19
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) Sort of transparent to the [unintelligible]. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: Which means that Wilton didn’t have to come tonight? 2
3
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) Correct. 4
5
Mr. Lait: In that they would have only had to go to the Architectural Review Board for up to 6
three meetings. 7
8
Commissioner Alcheck: (off mic) I mean I guess the notion is that in these districts – sorry. You 9
know I think what I’m understanding it that in these districts we’re essentially saying yeah, we 10
support 100 percent affordable housing that isn’t currently allowed because of things like 11
ground floor retail requirements. I mean it takes care of a number of the hurdles but here’s the 12
thing about what we just did. We didn’t review the project right so the question is in what 13
planet would the optics of the situation allowed any rejection of the zoning change? I just don’t 14
think it’s likely that anybody would have voted that way. Maybe somebody would have but we 15
– it was unanimous, just seems interesting. I think the question really is does – here’s the 16
question Jonathan. The question is does City Council benefit from – Director Lait? I think the 17
real question is does City Council benefit from this element of the process? Do they need our 18
opinion about whether the AH Overlay should apply to a project that we don’t really discuss its 19
specifics or can they just take this and make their own – and then the real question is you’d be 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
– are you removing it? All oversight? No, because doesn’t the ARB recommendation then go to 1
City Council? 2
3
Mr. Lait: (off mic) It would for this Wilton project if we [unintelligible] (interrupted) 4
5
Commissioner Alcheck: It’s not like we’re removing it – oversight from the process. The 6
question is what is the – I think the real question is what is the benefit of our review to City 7
Council because we’re just a recommending body. Are they really benefiting from what we did? 8
9
Mr. Lait: And I think at the time we were drafting it we were still learning about SB-35 and its 10
implications and so we were taking a cautious approach on how that would play out. And so, 11
we’re exploring a concept here with this Housing Incentive Program (interrupted) 12
13
Commissioner Alcheck: I don’t think it’s so radical is all I’m saying. I mean (interrupted) 14
15
Chair Lauing: Well I think one disconnect here frankly is that when we’re discussing the 16
ordinance in those two meetings part of the argument for going ahead with it and saying it was 17
not pervasive is that every project would come back to PTC for review. But that’s actually not 18
happening anyway because it’s only the fit to the ordinance. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Riggs: Maybe I should bring up my question now because it relates to the bigger 1
picture. It sounds like we’re done with Item 5 Sue or we – alright. So why – I forgot some of SB-2
35 I had to actually go back and look at it. I don’t see how even the Affordable Housing Overlay 3
is relevant any longer. I mean like SB-35 invalidates most of it because of the proximity 4
requirements on – I mean – and so what I was going to ask is (interrupted) 5
6
Chair Lauing: So, specify what you mean by that because the proximity requirements. 7
8
Commissioner Riggs: Well so the fact that (interrupted) 9
10
Commissioner Alcheck: (off mic) [unintelligible] can’t use SB-35. 11
12
Commissioner Riggs: Why – they could have come under – they would have had a guarantee – 13
they could have come in under SB-35. I mean like they didn’t (interrupted) 14
15
Vice-Chair Monk: [unintelligible – off mic] 16
17
Chair Lauing: So, can we get Staff comment on that? 18
19
Commissioner Riggs: Why – it couldn’t have prevented it. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Yang: The reason that this project is going to the ARB is because the AH Overlay needs to 2
be applied. If the AH Overlay were already in place then they could have taken advantage of SB-3
35 and asked for an administerial approval. 4
5
Commissioner Alcheck: (off mic) Right but now that the AH Overlay – theoretically if the AH 6
Overlay gets approved it goes to City Council, they accept the recommendation, couldn’t they 7
still use SB-35? 8
9
Mr. Yang: Yes, but we’re processing the architectural review concurrently so (interrupted) 10
11
Commissioner Alcheck: (off mic) If they don’t like your recommendation in the ARB though? 12
13
Commissioner Riggs: So, I guess my question – let – this is way in the weeds. We don’t need to 14
have that – I mean my opinion that discussion is not what -- I wanted to bring up was some of 15
what we talked about to start off today’s – this discussion. I think is not as informed by AB-35 16
[note-SB-35] as it should be. A lot of the parking standards we looked at for within a half mile 17
from transit don’t relate to the actual standard under SB-35 which there is no standard. I mean 18
so I don’t understand – a part of me is like I keep on pushing on this parking maximum thing. 19
Why are we even talking about a .5 standard for micro units or a .5 standard for all of these 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
others. So, I don’t understand why we’re even dialoging that when we’ve already got a certain 1
segment which we want to come in -- a certain amount of affordable housing we want to come 2
in that doesn’t require any parking what so ever. But we’re holding the rest of our inventory 3
hostage to these parking standards or we’re saying oh we’re going to have these artificial 4
standards even for our affordable housing. I just think – I think we should push a little harder on 5
some of these items that are in here, particularly at the front side on a Citywide piece. 6
7
Commissioner Alcheck: [unintelligible – off mic] 8
9
Chair Lauing: Staff do you want to address that? 10
11
Mr. Lait: Yeah, no I think there’s opportunity for a conversation on parking and we have heard 12
from our outreach to developers that parking is probably one of the greatest constraints that 13
we have even with increased floor area that we’re providing. At some point more floor area 14
and even height doesn’t help because you can’t park it if you’re digging multiple levels down 15
and so parking really becomes one of the biggest constraints. So that’s why we’re looking to 16
provide – easing up a little bit more in these transit rich areas, the fixed transit. So, what we 17
(interrupted) 18
19
Commissioner Riggs: Remind me because these have no requirement, right? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Lait: Under – so I’m getting to SB-35, so what we’ve proposed of course is something that 2
we thought moved the needle. And it may not move it far enough for some developers but we 3
think that it does for others and so we’re trying to take that step in the right direction. With Sb-4
35 we understand that – and if the Commission is not aware of this, you can have SB – for 5
qualifying SB-35 projects that are with in a half mile of transit and that’s defined or actually it’s 6
not really defined but there’s other state law that provides some guidance as to what that is. 7
Basically, El Camino and downtown, all the areas that we’re looking at, if you have a qualifying 8
SB-35 project which means 2/3s – at least 2/3 of the project is residential and for Palo Alto 50 9
percent of that project is deed restricted to affordable housing; 120 percent AMI and below. 10
You can build that project without any parking spaces and so that’s a conversation that the 11
community I think needs to understand about state law and we need to reconcile that with our 12
own local ordinance. You – what you get with that project is 50 percent affordable housing 13
which we heard some comments about that. If we got that that would be certainly moving 14
toward the right direction but there’s other elements of SB-35 that might be less attractive to a 15
developer. And there are some sites that get kicked out depending on what where the previous 16
uses and other historic resources and things of that nature. So, what we’re talking about here 17
are projects – standards that would apply to every project versus a subset for SB-35 18
(interrupted) 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Riggs: Ok. 1
2
Mr. Lait: And so that’s the rub. 3
4
Commissioner Alcheck: Can I ask him a follow up question? 5
6
Chair Lauing: Just – did you get your answer? 7
8
Commissioner Riggs: Well I think understand, I just – it seems like an opportunity to nudge 9
some of these but if we’re going to try to bring it conformity with the Affordable Housing 10
Overlay then that’s one amount of transparency we can provide. A sophisticated developer is 11
going to know how to take advantage of SB-35. 12
13
Commissioner Alcheck: That’s what – I was – so I was going to suggest to you, you think a land 14
owner with – in this – in one of these zones with let’s say acreage ok? Do you think that what 15
we’re putting on the – I mean I guess the question is or do we really think what we’re putting 16
on the table is appealing enough for let’s say the Fry’s site to not consider SB-35 as a much 17
easier process? I don’t think they’re – I don’t think the SB-35 applicant is going to build it 18
without parking. I think they’re going to look at a project and suggest we’re going to park it but 19
they’re going to have a streamlined process. And the parking might be relating to our parking 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
standards or what the community wants. I think – look I think it’s really telling what happened 1
in Cupertino. I mean that – its still sort of unfolding, I don’t know that they – I think they made a 2
decision last week or the City Council had to make a decision and they were trying to push – the 3
developer was like we like your Option 2 but now your Option 1 and we can work with this but 4
the developer has significant leverage in that discussion. And I just think when that comes to 5
Palo Alto it going to feel like a slap in the face to some people. And I’m ok – I’m not suggesting 6
that I have an answer to solve that problem but it feels like what we’re going here is largely – I 7
feel like the project that is most effected here is the next Wilton Court, a 100 percent 8
affordable project by a non for profit which is barely capable of building units at a $600,000-9
unit price tag. I mean it’s – I wish I understood – I wish we had a little bit more time to get a 10
sense of whether any private developers thought this was even remotely appealing. And I’m 11
not suggesting that we slow down the process, I’m just saying one of my concerns is we’re 12
doing a lot of work and is it every going to get taken advantage of? That’s one of my concerns. I 13
hope it does but I don’t – I think that – I think what’s going to happen is it’s not far enough, the 14
needle is not far enough and – but I’m comfortable with getting to that day and seeing that 15
situation arise. 16
17
Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, I think we took some of – took up some of these matters when 1
we looked at the AH Overlay but I mean something that I think would be easy to do would be to 2
fold – would be to create a by right process for AH at 60 percent AMI and below. I mean I think 3
there’d be broad support for that and we know those projects are financeable. The 60 to 120 is 4
actually the tougher case. It’s – I’m sorry? 5
6
Commissioner Alcheck: 60 to 120 is impossible now. The reason why it was under 80 – it was in 7
80 is because right now the financing doesn’t – they don’t have that process yet and we only 8
allowed 80 because (interrupted) 9
10
Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok excuse me, I have the floor. 11
12
Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt. 13
14
Commissioner Waldfogel: What we did learn from interviewing developers is that the solution 15
in the Bay Area for that bucket is inclusionary standards. So that’s where the 60 to 120 units are 16
getting developed and so I think we need to look at all this as sort of in that context. That a 120 17
percent or 100 percent of 120 percent AMI just won’t happen. That’s just not – that’s not a 18
financeable project in todays climate. You know 20 percent of 120 percent AMI probably is a 19
financeable project, maybe even 25 percent in the Palo Alto market. I don’t know what the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
exact number should be but I think we need to look at some of this in that context. So, like I say 1
the 60 percent and below, I’d be fine if that was a by right process. That we didn’t have to go 2
through this – we didn’t have to go through a – that we didn’t have to go through a map 3
revision. 4
5
Mr. Lait: At the AH Overlay standards? 6
7
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah at the AH Overlay standards but I think we’d have to look – we 8
just have to look a little bit harder at the other bucket and just figure out what is actually 9
financeable. I mean there’s no point in passing an ordinance that doesn’t lead to anything 10
happening so let’s figure out what can actually make something happen. 11
12
Mr. Lait: I think financing with some of the recent changes use to read 60 percent but not it’s an 13
average of 60 percent in the financing. So that some of the units could be more than 60 percent 14
but on average there’s a 60 percent threshold. 15
16
Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, I don’t know if that’s going to – you know again we’d need to 17
talk to some developers. I mean I’m – yeah, I wish that Candice Gonzalez from – who’s she with 18
now? She’s with (interrupted) 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Monk: Sand Hill. 1
2
Commissioner Waldfogel: With Sand Hill had stuck around because I’d just like to ask if there’s 3
any willingness to share some models with us so that we can have an informed discussion 4
about that knobs actually have an effect. 5
6
Chair Lauing: Yeah, I want to chime in there because my one big picture item beyond the – 7
before getting into the analysis appendix is we’re scheduled for 2019 to discuss economic 8
analysis to support BMR housing in the Housing Work Plan. But for the same reasons that have 9
come up here tonight and to Commissioner Waldfogel it seems like that’s so central to getting 10
the right kind of housing built and looking at a housing overlays and we’re trying to add more 11
affordable housing everywhere. Particularly now that you don’t have to do anything with the 12
nodes and fishes or whatever that things called. I mean you could add this thing back in and we 13
could try to tackle that in this round of (interrupted) 14
15
Mr. Lait: (off mic) Put what back in? 16
17
Chair Lauing: The – it’s 3.1, 2 and 3 in the Work Plan where we’re talking about the Palmer Fix 18
and BMR percentages. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Lait: Yeah, yeah, we’re working on that, that’s not part of this effort. We’re – we’ve got a 1
consultant and they’re – we’re expecting some (interrupted) 2
3
Chair Lauing: I totally respect the fact that it’s not even due till 2019. I guess I’m asking the 4
question of if it’s possible to move that up since it’s so critical. 5
6
Mr. Lait: Yeah, we’re working on it but it’s going to be a 2019 item. 7
8
Chair Lauing: Ok. Commissioner Monk [note- Vice-Chair Monk], is your light on? No, ok. Alright 9
so from Staff’s point of view is there anything in the analysis/appendix sections that we need to 10
address tonight? 11
12
Mr. Lait: No, I think we got some good feedback. So just to summarize it, if we implemented 13
what we had here less the nodes and corridors, it sounds like we’ve got something that – 14
there’s enough momentum to move forward. There are some other areas that we heard and 15
have notes on that we may make some tweaks and adjustments and we’ll look at the affordable 16
housing and how that comes forward. We also want to make sure that we’re dialed in with SB-17
35 and if there’s – we’ll report out on all that stuff. So, think we’re good from out perspective 18
and well come back with an ordinance at your next meeting. 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: Ok, good. 1
Approval of Minutes 2
Public Comment is Permitted. Five (5) minutes per speaker.1,3 3
4. August 29, 2018 Draft PTC Meeting Minutes 4
Chair Lauing: 10 [note -minutes] till 11, let’s take a glance at the next item which is I think 5
approval of minutes. Approval of the August 29th minutes. 6
7
MOTION 8
Vice-Chair Monk: I move to approve the minutes from August 29th. 9
10
SECOND 11
12
Commissioner Riggs: Second. 13
14
VOTE 15
16
Chair Lauing: Ok, I don’t recall the attendance there but if you were not in attendance please 17
abstain but all in favor then say aye. Any opposed? No, ok. 18
19
Motion passed 6-0 (Alcheck, Riggs, Lauing, Monk, Waldfogel, Gardias)-0-1(Summa absent) 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commission Action: Motion to Approve Minutes Made by Vice Chair Monk, Seconded by 1
Commissioner Riggs. Motion Passed 6-0 (Summa Absent) 2
Committee Items 3
Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 4
5
Chair Lauing: So, shifting over to our calendar the idea is for 10/10 to see an ordinance. There’s 6
also the roof (interrupted) 7
8
Commissioner Alcheck: I just want to highlight I have a back to school night on the 10th of 9
October that begins at 7 pm at my child’s school. So, I was thinking that at the conclusion of the 10
back to school night which is typically an hour I could head back here. I assume that we’ll still be 11
in a meeting at 8 pm considering but that’s my plan. 12
13
Chair Lauing: Ok. 14
15
Vice-Chair Monk: Will that house roof deck be going forward that night? 16
17
Chair Lauing: That’s what I was just going to ask. 18
19
Mr. Lait: Yeah, the roof deck is going forward, do you want to have that item first? 20
21
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Monk: I think so because we don’t want them waiting around for us to go over the 1
ordinance. Don’t you think it’s a quicker (interrupted) 2
3
Chair Lauing: Do you think it’s short? 4
5
Commissioner Alcheck: Do you think the ordinance is going to take that long now that we’ve 6
(interrupted) 7
8
Chair Lauing: Yeah. 9
10
Commissioner Alcheck: Really? 11
12
Chair Lauing: I think it will because we’re at an ordinance and there will be amendments and 13
discussion of that and so we have to at least leave time for that. So, I would support 14
Commissioner Monk’s [note- Vice-Chair Monk’s] suggestion of doing -- if we’re going to do the 15
roof deck thing we should do that first. 16
17
Vice-Chair Monk: Well I mean if there’s an applicant here I think it’s more curious as well so 18
they have a better idea of their timing unless there’s a reason for having it second on the 19
agenda? 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Lait: Ok, we’ll set it up that way. 2
3
Chair Lauing: Ok and I’d also like to get thoughts form the Commission, we don’t actually have 4
the ordinance but we certainly have talked about the ordinance. Are we going to be 5
comfortable approve it on the 10th unless we run out of time for some reason? 6
7
Commissioner Riggs: (off mic) Absolutely (interrupted) 8
9
[note – Commissioner Alcheck and Commissioner Riggs spoke at the same time off mic] 10
11
Commissioner Waldfogel: [unintelligible – off mic] 12
13
Mr. Lait: We’re getting together tomorrow to work out some of the detail and we hope to be 14
done – I mean your Packet’s Wednesday. In theory we don’t often hit that mark, we’ll endeavor 15
to do so this time and if we can get it out even a day before that we will do that so our goal is to 16
get it to you as soon as possible. 17
18
Commissioner Waldfogel: (off mic) I mean you [unintelligible]. You know if it doesn’t show up 19
until Monday morning then that’s going to be [unintelligible]. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Lauing: That’s definitely a pacing item. 2
3
Commissioner Waldfogel: Sorry? 4
5
Chair Lauing: That’s definitely a pacing item when that document comes and obviously we want 6
it out to the public as soon as it could be out there. Ok any other things you want to comment 7
on in future agenda items? For 31 I’ve written in a pumpkin here so we’re not showing up? 8
August 30th – October 31st but on 14th Boyce Road, El Camino Real Safety and CEQA. 9
10
Commissioner Alcheck: (off mic) I have a quick question of Staff? 11
12
Chair Lauing: Can we – are those still the agenda items as far as you know? Ok, fine, 13
Commissioner Alcheck. 14
15
Commissioner Alcheck: Do you know are there any other public officials attending on Friday, 16
the Urban Plan event? 17
18
Mr. Lait: I don’t know if there’s any others from Palo Alto but certainly from around 19
(interrupted) 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Alcheck: No, I know there (interrupted) 2
3
Commissioner Gardias: What is it? 4
5
Commissioner Alcheck: The – I saw the email list of the people who are attending from outside, 6
I was just curious if any – if we’re sending anybody else? 7
8
Mr. Lait: You and Commissioner Monk [note-Vice-Chair Monk]. 9
10
Commissioner Alcheck: Ok. 11
12
Vice-Chair Monk: And then at the beginning of this meeting you said I was on task for 13
something on October 1 and I did not hear what that item was. 14
15
Mr. Lait: Attendance at the City Council meeting. 16
17
Vice-Chair Monk: For which item? 18
19
Mr. Lait: For the ADU. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice-Chair Monk: Ok, again the ADU Ordinance? 2
3
Mr. Lait: Yes. 4
5
Vice-Chair Monk: Oh my gosh. 6
7
Chair Lauing: So, any questions, comments, announcements in general? 8
9
Commissioner Riggs: 14th [note -10th] and then what’s the -- after that? 10
11
Chair Lauing: The 22nd, let me get over there. 12
13
Commissioner Riggs: Really? We’re going to meet – we’re really going to meet the day before 14
Thanksgiving? 15
16
Chair Lauing: Nope, sorry, November (interrupted) 17
18
Commissioner Riggs: November 22nd? 19
20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Lauing: I believe it’s November 22nd and that is (interrupted) 1
2
Commissioner Alcheck: It says November 28th. 3
4
Chair Lauing: I’m sorry. 5
6
Commissioner Riggs: Yeah that makes more sense, I have the 28th on (interrupted) 7
8
Chair Lauing: That is Thanksgiving, 11/22 so the 28th. That’s not on our docket yet – I mean our 9
Packet yet. 10
11
Commissioner Riggs: Alright cool and that’s our last meeting of the year or? 12
13
Chair Lauing: No, we still have one scheduled on 12/12. 14
15
Commissioner Riggs: Really? 16
17
Chair Lauing: Ok, thank you all, we are adjourned. 18
Adjournment 19
10:54 pm 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Palo Alto Planning & Transportation Commission 1
Commissioner Biographies, Present and Archived Agendas and Reports are available online: 2
http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/gov/boards/ptc/default.asp. The PTC Commission members are: 3
4
Chair Ed Lauing 5
Commissioner Michael Alcheck 6
Commissioner Asher Waldfogel 7
Commissioner Przemek Gardias 8
Vice Chair Susan Monk 9
Commissioner William Riggs 10
Commissioner Doria Summa 11
Get Informed and Be Engaged! 12
View online: http://midpenmedia.org/category/government/city-of-palo-alto or on Channel 26. 13
14
Show up and speak. Public comment is encouraged. Please complete a speaker request card 15
located on the table at the entrance to the Council Chambers and deliver it to the Commission 16
Secretary prior to discussion of the item. 17
18
Write to us. Email the PTC at: Planning.Commission@CityofPaloAlto.org. Letters can be 19
delivered to the Planning & Community Environment Department, 5th floor, City Hall, 250 20
Hamilton Avenue, Palo Alto, CA 94301. Comments received by 2:00 PM two Tuesdays preceding 21
the meeting date will be included in the agenda packet. Comments received afterward through 22
2:00 PM the day of the meeting will be presented to the Commission at the dais. 23
24
Material related to an item on this agenda submitted to the PTC after distribution of the 25
agenda packet is available for public inspection at the address above. 26
Americans with Disability Act (ADA) 27
It is the policy of the City of Palo Alto to offer its public programs, services and meetings in a 28
manner that is readily accessible to all. Persons with disabilities who require materials in an 29
appropriate alternative format or who require auxiliary aids to access City meetings, programs, 30
or services may contact the City’s ADA Coordinator at (650) 329-2550 (voice) or by emailing 31
ada@cityofpaloalto.org. Requests for assistance or accommodations must be submitted at least 32
24 hours in advance of the meeting, program, or service. 33