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Home My WebLink About2017-11-29 Planning & transportation commission Summary Minutes_______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Planning & Transportation Commission 1 Action Agenda: November 29, 2017 2 Council Chambers 3 250 Hamilton Avenue 4 6:00 PM 5 6 Call to Order / Roll Call 7 6:02PM 8 Election of PTC Chair and Vice Chair 9 10 Chair Alcheck: Ok, secretary will you call roll, please? Great. I do see two speaker cards but the 11 agenda has the election that proceeds that. So why don’t we do that and then after we 12 nominate and elect our new Chair and Vice Chair for the beginning of this meeting. Then they 13 can proceed with the speaker cards. Ok, so I will accept nominations from the floor. Eric 14 Rosenblum… Commissioner Rosenblum? 15 Commissioner Rosenblum: That’s my light. [unintelligible -mic not on] I’d like to nominate 16 Commissioner Lauing for Chair. 17 Chair Alcheck: Ok, can I get a second? 18 Commissioner Summa: Second. 19 Chair Alcheck: Ok, Commissioner Lauing do you accept the nomination? 20 Commissioner Lauing: Yes. 21 Chair Alcheck: Commissioner Rosenblum would you like to speak to your nomination? 22 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Rosenblum: Sure, so Commissioner Lauing is someone who has served on other 1 Commissions in the City in the capacity of Chairmen and also has served on Corporate Boards. 2 And in my discussions with him actually outside of here, just having lunch together, he has a lot 3 of ideas for what do with a Commission like this and make it more effective. So, I think that 4 we’d benefit both from his experience in both private sector and other Commissions or Boards. 5 I would like to see him carry out some of those ideas. 6 Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. Commissioner Monk, do you want to speak to your second? 7 Commissioner Monk: Doria… I lite up but Doria raised her hand [unintelligible]. We’re both 8 seconding. 9 Chair Alcheck: I heard a second. I didn’t know (interrupted) 10 Commissioner Monk: I’m happy to speak to (interrupted). I actually was going to second it. 11 Chair Alcheck: I heard a second, I didn’t realize it was that far away. Would you like to speak to 12 your second? 13 Commissioner Summa: No, I don’t need too. 14 Chair Alcheck: Ok, are there any other nominations? Ok, seeing none we will vote for our Chair. 15 All those in favor of supporting the election? 16 Commissioner Gardias: I’d like to make a comment. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Alcheck: Before this vote? 1 Commissioner Gardias: Yes. 2 Chair Alcheck: Can it wait? 3 Commissioner Gardias: I’d rather not because it relates to the nomination. 4 Chair Alcheck: Ok, go ahead. 5 Commissioner Gardias: Yeah thank you. So, this is pretty much the same comment I made over 6 and over again. So, I oppose that outgoing Commission votes for the Chair because there is… 7 We already know that there is one more candidate that was appointed by the Council and the 8 candidate should have the right to vote. So, I’ve raised this topic on many occasions and I’m 9 (interrupted) 10 Chair Alcheck: Actually, let me interject really quick. This is an item on our agenda tonight. The 11 ordinance before us tonight I believe includes language about changing this very issue so what I 12 would like to do is instead of taking the time right now for you to discuss this item. I would 13 prefer that you discuss the reasons why you would support that change during agenda Item 14 Number Two, which is really going to be more appropriate and I hope that would be ok with 15 you. 16 Commissioner Gardias: Well, actually it would affect this first item so (interrupted) 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Alcheck: I know but (interrupted) 1 Commissioner Gardias: That’s fine. I mean there’s no support in and of course, I would 2 (interrupted) 3 Chair Alcheck: It’s not that there’s no support. It’s just that we have agenized this item and I 4 think we have an item next which will allow you to have plenty of time to discuss this. 5 Commissioner Gardias: Sure, I understand. 6 Chair Alcheck: Alright so at this time I’d like to call a vote for the election of Commissioner 7 Lauing to the position of Chair. All those in favor please raise your hand. Ok, that’s six in favor. 8 All those opposed? All those abstaining? We have one abstention by Commissioner Gardias. At 9 this time, I would like to accept nominations for the position of Vice Chair. Commissioner 10 Rosenblum, please, Commissioner Rosenblum. 11 Commissioner Rosenblum: I’d like to nominate Commissioner Monk. 12 Chair Alcheck: Ok, any seconds for that nomination? I will second that nomination. Would you 13 like to speak to your nomination? 14 Commissioner Rosenblum: Yes. Commissioner Monk is also someone I know outside of this 15 body and I was thinking a lot about this actually. And obviously I also supported Commissioner 16 Lauing and I thought a lot about the kinds of people that I’d like to see together. And the thing 17 that I find unusual about Commissioner Monk is that first, she’s a very strong process person. In 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. fact, often times I have a question, she’s the first person I go too because she clarifies what is 1 the PTC’s mandate? What should we be looking at? What is the current ordinance? I often find 2 myself going into extraneous areas and she has this clarifying effect of saying no, I’ve actually 3 gone through this and this is where we need to focus and here’s why; number one. Number 4 two, she’s very detailed oriented. She reads everything, goes through everything, she works 5 very hard and to me, a lot of the role of Chair and Vice Chair is a process role. They’re the 6 people who keep us focused on point and I think you do that better if you’ve gone through 7 everything in great detail and you like process. And I think again, she’s an attorney, it shows and 8 she likes process. The third this is that I think that she frankly, got her start in Palo Alto civic life 9 by working on the Commission campaigns and building relationships with the Commissioners. 10 Including running Liz Kniss’s campaign but through that, getting to know many of the Council 11 Members. And many of us talk about what is our relationship between our body and Council? 12 Could we play a more important role? Could we take on things from more fundamental points 13 of view? I think Council Member Tanaka brought this up, others have brought this up saying 14 they wish we would do more. I would hope that the Chair and Vice Chair worked to build the 15 relationship between this Commission and the Council so that in the future we do have the 16 opportunity. I think that Commissioner Monk has already gone down that road. I have two final 17 points so bear with me for one moment. Let me just check my notes. So, two final points, one is 18 I shouldn’t have to check my notes which is I would like to see a little bit more diversity… I 19 would have hoped actually that we had appointed another woman to this body in this last 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. round. I know that would have meant sacrificing either our Chair or [Billy Riggs] who’s also 1 great but I think it is important to have more diversity and there’s diversity in two ways. First, 2 one of the only two women on this group. Second, I believe the only renter on this body would 3 be represented. And finally, she’s someone that has shown again and again a willingness to dig 4 into the procedure. So, I’ll go through all of these if we need summation but basically, I think on 5 many dimensions she’s complimentary to our new Chair and I think she’d do an excellent job. 6 So, those are my long but passionately and strongly [unintelligible] views. 7 Chair Alcheck: Ok, I’ll speak to my second; that was very eloquent. I think everybody on the 8 Commission is a strong contributor. I think that Chair Lauing and Commissioner Monk would 9 actually make a great team. I think that they would complement each other and I think that 10 there’s something to speak with the notions that there’s this opportunity for new blood here to 11 sort of perform a working group together as they approach some of the issues that I hope later 12 tonight when we talk about our process and performance. I think the idea of two people who 13 are relatively fresh not to the City and not to the City’s goals but to this Commission and 14 working together. I think that might… That could be a really good recipe, let me put it to you 15 that way. Ok, are there any other nominations for Vice Chair? 16 Vice Chair Waldfogel: I nominate Przemek Gardias for Vice Chair. 17 Chair Alcheck: Ok, do I have a second? 18 Commissioner Summa: I’ll second. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Alcheck: I’ll second. Commissioner Gardias do you accept this nomination? 1 Commissioner Gardias: I appreciate this very much but I’d rather not so thank you very much. 2 Chair Alcheck: Alright. 3 Commissioner Lauing: How about our other women? Does she have any (interrupted) 4 Chair Alcheck: Are you making a nomination? 5 Commissioner Lauing: I can do that to see if there’s any interest there. 6 Chair Alcheck: Actually, typically the process goes like this. If you’d like to nominate someone 7 you may and then I seek a second and then I ask that person if they are interested. 8 Commissioner Lauing: Yeah, that’s what I did. 9 Chair Alcheck: Are you making a nomination? Do I have a second? 10 Vice Chair Waldfogel: Ok. 11 Chair Alcheck: I have a second for that nomination. Commissioner… Excuse me, Commissioner 12 Summa do you accept this nomination? Actually, hold on… yeah, do you accept this 13 nomination? 14 Commissioner Summa: I will accept it and I thank the Commissioners for nominating me 15 despite the fact that I don’t wish to compete with my colleague, I will accept it. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Alcheck: Commissioner Lauing, would you like to speak to your nomination? 1 Commissioner Lauing: Yeah, I think that we now have two very qualified nominees that I would 2 be happy to work with either one in my new capacity. I do think that Doria’s background in 3 community service and the CAC and her complete investment in this City is allottable. And 4 despite where anybody stands on the spectrum of issues, the amount of work that she puts 5 into it and homework and research is just superlative. So, I highly respect that and I think she’s 6 a really valuable member to this Commission and would be the same in a Vice Chair role. 7 Chair Alcheck: Would you like to speak to your second? 8 Vice Chair Waldfogel: Just to concur with Commissioner Lauing’s comment. 9 Chair Alcheck: Alright at this time I will take a vote and we will vote in order. All those in favor 10 of supporting Commissioner Monk’s election to Vice Chair raise your hand; that’s three. All 11 those in favor of supporting Commissioner Summa’s election to Vice Chair, please raise your 12 hand. That’s three, that’s not enough. Ok, we’ll do this again. Do I have any nominations for the 13 position of Vice Chair? 14 Commissioner Rosenblum: [unintelligible – mic not on] 15 Chair Alcheck: You can. 16 Commissioner Rosenblum: I’ll re-nominate Commissioner Monk. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Alcheck: Do I have any seconds? I will second you, I will second you again. Is it fair to 1 assume that you don’t need to speak to this nomination or would you like to speak to this 2 nomination? 3 Commissioner Lauing: I don’t see where we’re going with that. 4 Chair Alcheck: I don’t really know where we’re going with it either. 5 Commissioner Lauing: So, this (interrupter) 6 Chair Alcheck: So the question is would you re-nominate again? 7 Commissioner Lauing: I think the only two options are if someone pulls out or we postpone the 8 vote to a later date. 9 Chair Alcheck: Well, let me (interrupted) 10 Commissioner Lauing: Or we go in the back room and flip a coin or something. 11 Chair Alcheck: [unintelligible – mic not on] 12 Commissioner Summa: [unintelligible - mic not on] 13 Chair Alcheck: Yeah, no it seems a little redundant to ask for re-nomination. 14 Commissioner Lauing: So, would either of the candidates be interested in waiting a year? I 15 mean that’s one way around it or we’ll just have to wait. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Alcheck: Ok so I don’t… Staff, do you have any suggestion on how to approach this 1 situation? 2 Mr. Jonathan Late, Assistant Director of the Planning Department: I would just see if there’s 3 other nomination opportunities. I would go through another round of making nominations. 4 Commissioner Rosenblum: [unintelligible – mic not on] 5 Chair Alcheck: Commissioner Rosenblum. 6 Commissioner Rosenblum: I don’t know if this is useful or not but to the extent that time is an 7 element, I believe Commissioner Monk only has one year left on her term. So, you are fulfilling 8 the stub of Commissioner… Of Council Member Fine, is that correct? 9 Commissioner Monk: That’s correct. 10 Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok so the extent that there is any consideration around the time of 11 like would one want to wait a year or not. I think for Commissioner Monk, there isn’t that 12 opportunity so this is it. 13 Chair Alcheck: I’m going to allow any other individuals who would like to speak and maybe 14 reflect on whether that changes things for you. 15 Commissioner Summa: I didn’t know that so in the interest of the fact that Commissioner Monk 16 only has one year left. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Lauing: People have been reappointed before. 1 Commissioner Summa: I know but if we’re going to be (interrupted) 2 Commissioner Lauing: Including last week. 3 Chair Alcheck: That’s true, four more years. 4 Commissioner Summa: I will… I think I have a full four-year term I believe so in the interest, and 5 I think as Commissioner Lauing has said, we would both be great. He’d love to have either one 6 of us as Vice Chair, I will withdraw then so that we can revote; otherwise, it just doesn’t make 7 any sense. 8 Chair Alcheck: Ok, I appreciate that. I think that (interrupted) 9 Commissioner Lauing: I guess the other option technically is to leave the current Vice in place 10 but no (interrupted) 11 Chair Alcheck: So, listen, there’s a process because I’m trying to respect the process. I need a 12 nomination and I want to sort of make sure we’re all aware that it’s important to… It’s 13 important that we hear each other. So anyway, I’m going to call for a nomination so are there 14 any nominations? Commissioner Rosenblum. 15 Commissioner Rosenblum: I will again nominate Commissioner Monk. 16 Mr. Lait: We do… We have that nomination. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Alcheck: Because we re-nominated? 1 Mr. Lait: And it’s been seconded by (interrupted) 2 Chair Alcheck: Are there any other nominations? Seeing none, I’ll call for a vote. All those in 3 favor of electing Commissioner Monk to the position of Vice Chair, please raise your hand. Ok, 4 that’s six in favor. All those opposed? All those dissenting? We have not dissenting, 5 Commissioner Gardias. Ok, congratulations now Chair Lauing and Vice Chair Monk. I just want 6 to say it’s really been an honor to serve as your Chair this year and I wish you guys the best of 7 luck in the next year. 8 Commission Action: Commissioner Rosenblum nominated Commissioner Lauing for Chair; the 9 nomination was seconded by Chair Alcheck [Note – Summa]. Commissioner Lauing was voted 10 the new Commission Chair (6-0-1(Gardias)). Commissioner Rosenblum nominated 11 Commissioner Monk for Vice Chair of the Commission; the nomination was seconded by Chair 12 Alcheck. Commissioner Lauing nominated Commissioner Summa for Vice Chair of the 13 Commission; the nomination was seconded by Vice Chair Waldfogel. The vote that followed 14 was a tie, 3 votes for Commissioner Monk, 3 for Commissioner Summa with one abstention. 15 Commissioner Summa withdrew from the race for Vice Chair. Commissioner Monk was voted 16 Vice Chair (6-0-1(Gardias)) 17 Oral Communications 18 The public may speak to any item not on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker.1,2 19 Chair Lauing: For the next item on the agenda is oral communications. We have two speaker 20 cards, first if Jackie Lundy. 21 [Note - Female:] [unintelligible – off mic] 22 Chair Lauing: Sorry? 23 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. [Note -Female:] [unintelligible – off mic] 1 Chair Lauing: I still didn’t hear that sorry. 2 [Note - Female:] They want to speak to Item Two. 3 Chair Lauing: Oh ok, sorry. 4 Agenda Changes, Additions, and Deletions 5 The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 6 Chair Lauing: Are there any agenda changes, additions or deletions? They are going to go… They 7 are going to do Item Two. 8 City Official Reports 9 1. Assistant Directors Report, Meeting Schedule and Assignments 10 Chair Lauing: Ok if there are not any then we’re going to go to the Assistant Director’s report. 11 Mr. Lait: Great, thank you. Just a couple items to report. The City Council on Monday 12 considered the 101 Bike Bridge which this Commission had reviewed on a couple of occasions, 13 that project was approved unanimously. 14 They also considered a pre-screening request on roof decks, generally for the downtown area, 15 on buildings that were non-conforming with respect to Development Standards. There was no 16 vote on that but there was I would say more or less a split conversation about interest in having 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. roof decks or not. That’s sort of in the applicant’s hands now to decide if they want to file an 1 application and go through a process of going forward with it. 2 Upcoming the City Council will have a discussion on the housing bills that have recently been 3 passed at the state. This Commission will also receive a similar presentation on December 13th 4 and the GUP letter… Comment letter is scheduled to be discussed at the City Council on 5 December 4th. That concludes the report. 6 Chair Lauing: Was there an extension on that GUP letter? 7 Mr. Lait: I think we’re going to find out about that tomorrow night. 8 Chair Lauing: Ok. 9 Action Items 10 Public Comment is Permitted. Applicants/Appellant Teams: Fifteen (15) minutes, plus three (3) minutes rebuttal. 11 All others: Five (5) minutes per speaker.1,3 12 2. PUBLIC HEARING: Recommendation to the City Council Regarding the Adoption of an 13 Ordinance Amending Palo Alto Municipal Code (PAMC) Chapter 2.20 (Planning and 14 Transportation Commission) of Title 2, Chapter 9.10 (Noise) of Title 9, Chapter 10.64 15 (Bicycles, Roller Skates and Coasters) of Title 10, and Chapters 18.04 (Definitions), 16 18.10 (Low-Density Residential (RE, R-2 and RMD)), 18.12 (R-1 Single-Family 17 Residential District), 18.15 (Residential Density Bonus), 18.16 (Neighborhood, 18 Community, and Service Commercial (CN, CC and CS) Districts), 18.28 (Special 19 Purpose (PF, OS and AC) Districts), 18.30(G) (Combining Districts), 18.40 (General 20 Standards and Exceptions), 18.42 (Standards for Special Uses), 18.52 (Parking and 21 Loading Requirements), 18.54 (Parking Facility Design Standards), 18.76 (Permits and 22 Approvals), 18.77 (Processing of Permits and Approvals), and 18.80 (Amendments to 23 Zoning Map And Zoning Regulations) of Title 18, and Chapters 21.12 (Tentative Maps 24 and Preliminary Parcel Maps) and 21.32 (Conditional Exceptions) of Title 21. The 25 Proposed Ordinance is Exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) 26 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. in Accordance With CEQA Guidelines Section 15061(b)(3). For More Information, 1 Please Contact Clare Campbell at clare.campbell@cityofpaloalto.org. 2 Chair Lauing: Ok, so the first study session is on the action item is itemized in Number Two so 3 we’ll now take any speaker cards for Item Two and (unintelligible) (interrupted) 4 Mr. Lait: Do you want to hear a Staff report first or your call. Typically, we do a Staff 5 presentation and then hear from the public. 6 Chair Lauing: I presume they read it but let’s go ahead and do that. 7 Ms. Clare Campbell, Senior Planner: Great, thank you. Good evening Commissioners, Clare 8 Campbell, Senior Planner. So, tonight Staff if bring forward a collection of planning related code 9 changes for adoption in 2018. The group of miscellaneous code amendments were adopted 10 earlier by Council in February. 11 The proposed amendments are intended to be minor in nature and not controversial. The 12 amendments are to address simple text errors, modify the code to reflect current practice, 13 introduce some new policy initiative and update the code to be consistent with the State law. 14 This is specific to the accessory dwelling units and the housing density bonus. As noted it the 15 Staff report, the amendments are grouped into twenty-seven categories and are broadly 16 divided into minor text amendments and procedural amendments. This slide shows that the 17 majority of changes are affecting Title 18 and you’ll also see noted that there are a handful of 18 other code sections that are also being affected by the proposed amendments today. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. So, here is a list of all of the text clarification amendments. Basically, we’ve got some that are 1 just typo corrections and then we have some clarifying language that’s being added to the 2 code. The next list here represents all of the procedural related amendments. So, here we’ve 3 got quite a few on the list for all of the things that we’re looking at tonight and Staff has 4 selected six amendments to review in more detail in the presentation. And those are the ones 5 that have been high lighted on the slide for you so there are six of them. These amendments 6 are thought to be generally of more interest for discussion tonight. 7 So, the first one is item number 18 in the Staff report and this is related to adding the floor area 8 exemption for refuse areas for the CD District. So, in the commercial and multi-family zones, 9 the current code already allows for minor floor area exemptions for purposes of code 10 compliance. One is determined that these minor additions would increase compliance with 11 environmental health, safety, or other standards; with the exception for sites that are located 12 in the CD District and special study areas. So, the proposed amendment would remove this 13 exemption for the CD District and special study areas and then specifically mention that refuse 14 area are considered for the floor area exemption, even though it’s already implied with the 15 existing language. 16 So, the next one is to establish an over the counter review process. So, I’d like to just clarify first 17 that the Staff report incorrectly refers to this amendment as an over the counter architectural 18 review process so this was missed in the final edits of the report. The proposed amendment 19 was intended to establish an over the counter review process separate from the architectural 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. review. As a reminder, for all commercial and multi-family projects, all exterior changes to the 1 site which can be new constructions or existing façade improvements or site improvements, 2 these all require architectural review. And depending on the scope of the work, it would be 3 considered either Major or Minor and there would be a respective review process applied to 4 that project. So, for very minor projects such as a door or window change or adding equipment 5 screening, trash enclosures and that type of thing, we regularly review and approve them at the 6 Development Center in association with related Building Permits. And we… and this is without 7 requiring a Formal Architectural Review Application to be completed first. So, our current code 8 doesn’t actually have a specific provision to allow Staff to approve projects in this manner and 9 the proposed amendment would codify this existing practice. At the Director’s discretion, the 10 over the counter process would allow approval of projects deemed insignificant and that have 11 no effect to the building or the adjacent environment. And again, it’s typically associated with a 12 Building Permit but there could be instances where maybe it’s not and a good example of that 13 is it may be a minor landscape change like switching out a plant type or something like that on a 14 site. Project subject to the over the counter review would not be subject to further 15 administrative processing so that would include appeals and having to do approval letters and 16 decision… a formal decision-making process. Everything would be encompassed within the 17 Building Permit review and that process. So, Attachment B provides a draft of the Over the 18 Counter Review Guidelines and this is still being developed. And this guideline will help guide 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Staff and applicants with the process and the possible eligible projects that would be 1 considered for this type of review. 2 Ok, so the next one is Item Number 22(A) in the Staff report and it’s an amendment to reduce 3 the request for hearing time for Staff Level architectural reviews and limit those that make 4 those requests. So, as noted in the Staff report, we process over 130 Staff level Architectural 5 Review Applications a year and we rarely get a request for hearings for these minor projects. 6 So, I think this understanding helps bolster support for these proposed amendments. So, the 7 amendment would apply to Minor Staff level architectural review projects only and it doesn’t 8 apply to anything that’s a Board level review. It would reduce the request for hearing time from 9 a 14-calendar day period to a 7-day period and this is intended to reduce the overall application 10 processing time and it still maintains a process for an appeal if that was something that a 11 member of the public wanted to do. The amendment would also reduce the range of hearing 12 requesters from anyone to project applicants and adjacent property owners or tenants. And 13 this is usually what we think of the people who are most affected by these minor projects. 14 Ok, so the next amendment is related to the ADUs and it’s to bring our local regulations in 15 compliance with the state regulations. So, the state regulations will take effect on January 1st, 16 2018, and basically, it includes these very minor but key changes. So, ADUs are permitted not 17 only on sites with existing single-family homes but now must be allowed with proposed homes. 18 So, basically what that means is if someone submits for an Architectural – I’m sorry, an 19 Individual Review Application or even and Single-Story Home Building Permit it can now include 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the accessory dwelling unit with that permit application. And we’ve actually been doing this 1 already with the permits that have been submitted. The second item is that all ADUs must be 2 allowed in zones that permit single-family use and it’s listed here. So, that’s the R-1, R-2, RE, 3 RMD, OS and designated PC zones that have single-family as a use and not just those districts 4 zoned for single-family use. So, there are other updates to the ADU Ordinance that are being 5 prepared and that will be brought back to the Planning Commission in December in a study 6 session. So, this is also a good time to mention that Staff has received a letter from the public 7 which was attached to the Staff report. The issues raised in the letter regarding occupancy will 8 be one of the items that will be discussed or addressed in the study session coming up next 9 month. And as you are already aware, Mr. Lundy is present in the audience and his sister to 10 speak to his concerns. 11 Alright, so the next state driven update is for the Housing Density Bonus Regulations. The 12 updates state regulation took effect earlier in January of this year and the key updates include 13 local governments may not require applicants to prepare an additional report or study to 14 qualify for a density bonus, local governments may no longer reject incentives and concessions 15 on the grounds that they are not required in order to provide for affordable housing costs, 16 there’s a twenty percent density bonus that shall be granted to any project that reserves at 17 least ten percent of the housing units for disabled Veterans, foster youth or homeless persons. 18 And lastly, the density bonus law requires developers of new housing projects to replace all 19 demolished affordable units so there’s no net loss. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Alright, so this is the very last one here so… And its item number 27 and it has to do with the 1 Individual Review Process and the demolish of historic properties. So, the purpose of this 2 amendment is to discourage the misuse of the permitting process to potentially avoid 3 additional environmental analysis and historic review when building a new home. If a structure 4 is listed on the City’s Historic Inventory or is National Register Eligible and is demolished, an 5 association with an approved Building Permit for a new single-story home and no home is 6 constructed, no application for an Individual Review shall be filed within 5-years of the date of 7 the demolish permit issuance. That was a mouth full, alright. 8 So, now there are three ordinance corrections that I just want to review quickly with you. They 9 are very minor and I’d just like to point those out. So, the first one is Section Number One of the 10 ordinance and it’s related to the PTC Officer election and the highlighted text here should be… 11 Should remain in the section it was just erroneously deleted so that’s very simple there. 12 The next one is related to Section Two of the ordinance related to leaf blowers and basically, 13 we want to strike the language referring to the Palo Alto Unified School District. The school 14 district is exempted from complying with the City’s Noise Regulation. 15 The last one is related to ADUs and again, there are two words of highlighted text that just need 16 to be deleted. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Alright so for our next steps, upon recommendation from the Planning Commission, the draft 1 ordinance will be revised and forward to City Council for review and that’s tentatively 2 scheduled for February 2018. 3 And then I’d just like to do a summary of a revised motion. So, Staff recommends that the 4 Planning Commission finds the proposed draft ordinance exempted from the provisions of 5 CEQA in ordinance [Note - accordance?] with the CEQA Guidelines Section 15061(b)(3) and that 6 PTC recommend to the City Council adoption of an ordinance with the three text corrections 7 just sited in Section One, Two and Twelve to amend various sections of the Palo Alto Municipal 8 Code and that concludes Staff’s presentation, thank you. 9 Chair Lauing: Ok, thank you. We do have two speaker cards but I understand that Commissioner 10 Rosenblum has to leave in about 15-minutes so is that, about right? So, if we could just maybe 11 slightly change the procedure, you’re speaking to one narrow issue and we can get his 12 comments a number of things before he has to leave. So, unless there are any objections to 13 that, let’s go with that and we’ll be to you in about 10-minutes speakers. Commissioner 14 Rosenblum. 15 Commissioner Rosenblum: Great, thank you so much. I have – my daughter is in the Jordan 16 Choir and she got a solo for the first time so she really wants me there. So, just a couple things, 17 first I appreciate this exercise. I’ve now gone through it several times and I think each time I 18 think it’s getting closer to the intent so my comments are really about the intent of this 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. exercise, which is there’s a number of things that are really small. So, Staff, there is a couple 1 instance where there’s clearly a word missing and they’ve reinserted that word and that makes 2 sense but then there are other things that are quick significant. So, one of my main things that I 3 think the discipline that needs to be on this Commission is that things that big should not just 4 be approve in this kind of meeting. They should have a full hearing, we should discuss is this the 5 right thing, is this the wrong thing so a lot of things I go through and I try to take the test of is 6 this is a meaningful change or is this just something that oh, we should have been recorded. So, 7 under that I say, my personal belief is that Item Number Six which is a clarification of the 8 contextual garage placement [unintelligible] it applies to carports is actually significant. Even 9 though the Staff explanation is that this was always the intent, I’m not sure and I think it could 10 affect a lot of people so it’s something that I don’t think is one of these on the bus type changes 11 of just cleaning up language. 12 Number 11 which is floor are exemptions for historic homes. This is just one I don’t understand 13 as well as I should so I would just ask I hope my fellow Commissioner’s dig in a little bit to 14 understand this a little bit better. 15 Number 12, office restrictions in CS, CN, CC, I looked at the Palo Alto zoning map and looked at 16 all of the CS areas affected. And again, same thing, I am not sure… it’s not apparent to me that 17 this is one of those things that was just an obvious mistake and so would like the 18 Commissioners to dig in a little bit with Staff to understand was this something that when 19 drafting the ordinance around office use was simply overlooked. But it doesn’t appear that way 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. to me from the way it’s written and it doesn’t appear that way to me necessarily from where 1 the CS zones are on the map. 2 The procedural items, the ones that I think are of interest to discuss further, are obviously we’ll 3 discuss the election time for PTC Officers. I think that would be a lively discussion but on that 4 one, my only comment is since Commissioner Lauing has served on other Commissions and it’s 5 referenced in the Staff report that part of the reason for this is to align with the way other 6 Commissions do their business. It would be great to hear from you how that works in other 7 places because I just don’t know what that means that we shall elect Officers at our discretion. 8 I’m not sure what that means exactly, like what time, who calls it, is it like the British system 9 where you call for a vote of confidence at any time? 10 The – Number 17 which is the gas-powered leaf blowers in commercial districts, this is also one 11 that I just don’t necessarily understand the leaf blower industry. I’m not sure if there are certain 12 commercial properties that are just not… That you have to have a gas-powered leaf blower for. 13 So, I don’t understand if this is a big change for some folks or not a big change. I personally 14 don’t like gas-powered leaf blowers in Palo Alto but it’s possible that I just don’t understand 15 that electrically flowers may have constraints. For example, that this may have unintended 16 consequences to extend this into commercial areas. 17 The… to be consistent, Items Number 24 and 25 I’m in favor of but to be consistent I’m not sure 18 these are small deals. I think this puts us in alignment with state law, this is around ADUs and 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. density bonuses and so if the… If Staff’s argument is this simple aligns us with what the state 1 has already required then I am satisfied with that and I’m in favor of these anyway. But to be 2 fair, I’m not sure that these are small deals and I’m not sure that Palo Alto always tries to be 3 perfectly in compliance with state law. And I guess our Attorney can comment on that at the 4 time that we discuss these items but those are my impressions. These are the items I pulled out 5 as not necessarily being as simple as oh, a word was omitted and we’re just adding that back. 6 These things seem to have more substance, at least on my reading. And that’s it for me and 7 I’ll… if that’s ok, I’ll listen to the speakers and the (interrupted) 8 Chair Lauing: Yeah, no I was just going to ask you just for clarification. So, are you suggesting, 9 for example on some of these bigger deals, that we carve those out, re-agendize them for a 10 different time and give them further debate? 11 Commissioner Rosenblum: For some of them so for example, Items Twenty-Four and Twenty-12 Five (interrupted) 13 Chair Lauing: Right. 14 Commissioner Rosenblum: If it’s determined that those are a bigger deal then it should be part 15 of an ADU review for example and then this should be considered. Like I said, I would support 16 these things and say it’s in accordance with state law but this is something where if you 17 determine that these are bigger deals, then it should come back and have a more meaty 18 discussion on that issue with people preparing against that issue. And so, these are the items 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that seem to be slightly larger. I doubt we’ll have a whole meeting on gas-powered leaf 1 blowers, I ask from the Commissioners was just to ask about this. If this is something that is an 2 onerous requirement in any way or if this is something that is actually just an omission where it 3 should have always exempted commercial properties and just no one ever did it. 4 Chair Lauing: My question was your intent on the process and it sounded like, which was why I 5 was asking a question just so that your colleagues can hear, that you want some of these things 6 carved out for more discussion at a later time. 7 Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, if you guys agree with that… With those points of views then 8 of course. 9 Chair Lauing: Or others. 10 Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah. 11 Chair Lauing: Alright, thanks for your patience. Now we’d like to call the two speakers, Jackie 12 and Tom Lundy, in that order. 13 Ms. Jackie Lundy: Good evening, congratulations on your daughter’s solo, that’s a big deal. So, 14 my brother Tom and I are here to talk about a small unit that we’re trying to add onto an 15 existing house we own on Loma Verde. And this house and the house next door were houses 16 built by our parents and when our parents went to buy the property to build these houses on, 17 Loma Verde was still a gravel road, there was nothing but fields and oat hay. And when our 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. grandfather came out to look at it, he called it lonely acres because it was so far away so that’s 1 where we started with as far as way back when. And then we have the two houses and now 2 we’re moving up to post World War Two and these houses are completely corralled… 3 Surrounded by all the building boom that had happened in mid-town; lots of track houses and 4 modest bungalows as I’m sure you all are very aware of. And then we’ve gone to today, another 5 transition is going on in our neighborhood where these small bungalows are disappearing, very 6 large homes are being put in on many small lots, [Note - and] any big lot has an even bigger 7 house on it. The house that we’re talking about on Loma Verde at this point is between 8 Middlefield and Cowper; it’s a flag lot. That house and the house that we… that was the house 9 that we grew up in front of it, each are on quarter acre lots. The house in the back my parents 10 built as a rental, it’s been a rental ever since they’ve built it in the 1950’s. So, now when we 11 come up to today and we’re looking at Palo Alto, it’s the town we love, it’s the town that we 12 grew up in, [Note - and] we also think or at least I think back about what did it mean to live 13 here? When I lived here all my friend’s parents basically they were the teachers, they were the 14 truck drivers, they fixed the phone, they did all that sort of thing. Housing for those kinds of 15 people now, as you all I’m sure are very aware of, is rapidly disappearing, almost to zero. In 16 addition to that, just down the street from us on South Court and Loma Verda a friend of mine 17 lives there and the house across the street from her was torn down, a very large house was put 18 in, it sold for over three million dollars and this was several years ago and nobodies ever moved 19 in. The house has remained vacant so you have small houses disappearing, big houses going in 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that nobody can afford to rent and even more of shame is big houses were nobody even lives in 1 it, they don’t even rent it. So, what my brother and I are trying to propose is a very small help in 2 the way of trying to make Palo Alto still affordable to people who have a modest income. 3 Maybe they are a teacher, maybe work somewhere in town but at least they can live in town 4 because when I taught at Ohlone School I was one of three teachers that actually lived in town. 5 Everybody else had to live elsewhere and I got to ride my bike to school, they all had to drive 6 miles. So, it’s not… even in the greater sense of what’s sustainable to have that many people 7 living that far away. So, the little house that we’re talking about putting in is a very modest size 8 house, it would go in a spot on the quarter acre where there’s a perfect spot of it. And my 9 brother will fill you in on more of the details. 10 Chair Lauing: Ok, thank you. Tom Lundy? 11 Mr. Tom Lundy: Thanks. I just had two or three points just to give a little more practical idea of 12 what’s going on here. Break a leg for your daughter. The reason we’re here is… Been talking in 13 terms of amendments to the ordinance and the reason we’re here is that I feel that the 14 ordinance overlooked having a retroactivity provision. And as a result, we got… We were on 15 parallel tracks with the new ADU Ordinance. We started planning our ADU, back then they were 16 called Secondary Dwelling Units, in early 2016. I believe the state statute passed somewhere 17 like January 2016. The City was on a track at that point to revise the ADU Ordinance and we 18 were on the track to build our ADU Ordinance under the old statue. Completely oblivious to the 19 fact that this new statue was in the works. We sold property in Santa Rosa in January 2016 to 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. raise funds to build the unit. We signed a contract in September with our contractor, we began 1 designing and engineering and doing architectural work in December 2016 through March of 2 2017. We interacted with the City during that time, we had no notice from the City that there 3 was a new ordinance in the works. Now both Jackie and I live out of town so it’s in a way I guess 4 it was our fault also that we didn’t know about this but the fact of the matter is we didn’t. We 5 submitted our application for a Building Permit on the very day that the new enactment was 6 passed that night. We were actually on file before the statue by a matter of hours but we were 7 on file before the statute but that was a complete coincidence because we still didn’t know that 8 the new statue was in effect. We finally found out in June when we went to get our final 9 Building Permit and there was a requirement of the deed restriction. And the deed restriction is 10 the problem for us, I exampled that in the letter. We don’t want to have a 2,500-square foot 11 rental, we want to have a 1,700-square foot rental and a 900-square foot rental and that’s what 12 Palo Alto needs. Thank you. 13 Chair Lauing: Ok, thank you. A question Commissioner Alcheck? Oh, he’d like to address you. 14 Mr. Lundy: Pardon? 15 Chair Lauing: If you’d you stay up there, Chair [Note - Commissioner] Alcheck would like to 16 address you, excuse me. 17 Commissioner Alcheck: I have read your letter, I’m curious if you could articulate essentially 18 what change you think could we make to essentially accommodate the goal you have? 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lundy: Well, we actually, coincidentally, we had an email communication back and forth 1 with Karen Holmen and she suggested that the Council typically has retroactivity language in 2 new ordinances that provides that if an application is on file prior to the passage of the new 3 ordinance, that application would be processed under the old ordinance. So, I would suggest 4 something along those lines given the fact that we were on file before the old ordinance… 5 Before the new ordinance was passed. It was the same day but we were before so if the 6 language of the amendment were phrased in terms of on file before the passage of the 7 ordinance, that would do the trick. 8 Commissioner Alcheck: Ok, I appreciate that help, thank you. 9 Mr. Lait: And Chair, if you don’t mind? Just because I’ve had some correspondence with Mr. 10 Lundy. 11 Chair Lauing: Sure. 12 Mr. Lait: I think alternatively because that could present some challenging issues from an 13 administrative standpoint to retroactively at this point go back and do that. I think the other 14 issue, and Mr. Lundy can correct me if I am wrong, has to do with the deed restriction 15 requirement that the owner occupies one, either the primary residence or the ADU at the time. 16 And so, I think that’s the specific issue that… To respond to your question, it has to do with the 17 deed restriction requirement for ADUs requiring the owner to be on… in one of the units. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lundy: Or… Yes, or alternatively that you have to rent both units out to one tenant that 1 (interrupted) 2 Commissioner Alcheck: I actually have a quick question. 3 Chair Lauing: Go ahead. 4 Commissioner Alcheck: So, to Staff so properties that have an ADU, which have rented an ADU, 5 if the owner rents the main facility that would essentially violate our ADU Ordinance? 6 Mr. Lait: The owner just has to occupy one of the two units. It could be the ADU or it could be 7 the primary residence. 8 Commissioner Alcheck: Is that… I’m just curious because I’m not saying that’s unfamiliar to me 9 but what’s the… do you know the intent of that sort of position? Is it that we don’t want 10 essentially two renters? I mean is there… I’m trying to understand why we would require that. 11 Mr. Lait: Yeah, you know (interrupted) 12 Commissioner Alcheck: I’ll give you a quick example, I’m sorry. If the owner dies and the child 13 inherits it, the child has to take possession and live there. If they, for example, live out of state, 14 they couldn’t rent it out, they would have to sell the property. These sorts of requirements are 15 odd. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: Right but I… so I don’t think that the ordinance would require that scenario but there 1 are some provisions in which the whole… Both units could be rented to a single entity so that’s 2 an option. 3 Mr. Lundy: Yeah and I’ll… sorry. 4 Chair Lauing: Yes, go ahead. 5 Commissioner Summa: So, before… so it’s one parcel in an R-1 zone and they want to put a 6 second unit on it which they were going to rent. They don’t live in either… They currently don’t 7 live in Palo Alto, what… so how were they going to do that before the state law? 8 Mr. Lundy: There was no deed restriction required before the state law. See that’s the problem 9 when we were… We were working under the old ordinance. We qualified in terms of setbacks 10 and everything under the old ordinance and the old ordinance did not have the deed 11 restriction. That’s where we got caught up and I just would reemphasize that the fact that you 12 can rent to a single party… You can rent both units to a single party really defeats the purpose 13 from our standpoint providing rental units. 14 Chair Lauing: Did you have any additional comments? 15 Mr. Lait: Just that we have a deed restriction requirement for… this is a one-line item on the 16 deed restriction requirement. The deed restriction that we require be associated with the 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. property that’s seeking an ADU also has to… It’s just standard language about the size of the 1 unit, the plumbing fixtures and so on. 2 Chair Lauing: Ok, thank you so let’s go… I’m sorry, go ahead. 3 Commissioner Waldfogel: I’m sorry, a point of clarification. Is deed restriction either required 4 by state law or is it consistent with state law? 5 Mr. Lait: So, it’s required for the JADU. 6 Commissioner Waldfogel: It’s required by state law for JADU. 7 Mr. Lait: But it’s not required for the ADU. 8 Commissioner Waldfogel: In the new state law… I mean I’ve seen some briefings and summary 9 on new state law which is it possible for us to be more restrictive than state law on 10 requirements? I think this is a legal (interrupted) 11 Mr. Albert Yang, Senior Deputy Attorney: So, the deed restriction for non-JADUs or just ADUs, 12 it’s not required by state law but it is permitted… Expressly permitted by state law so it’s 13 consistent with state law that way. 14 Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok, it’s consistent. Thank you, that’s what I wanted to know. 15 Mr. Lundy: Could I just interject just one quick point? 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: It’s got to be really quick because you’ve had three speaking engagements. 1 Mr. Lundy: Ok, I live in Santa Rosa and pre-fire we had a deed restriction on the ADU Ordinance 2 for 12-years. They are now eliminating the deed restriction because it was an impediment to 3 the building of ADUs; it defeated the purpose. For whatever that’s worth, that’s not… that’s 4 beyond our issue but anyway, thank you. 5 Chair Lauing: Ok, thanks so let’s get back to considering this. I do want to talk about a process 6 question which happened to come up with our first Commissioner comments is… which is how 7 should we go through this? I mean we can go through this sort of point by point and some of 8 these can be grouped I think and some can’t. But some clearly are, quote bigger than others, 9 and we need to decide as a Commission if we do want to pull those out and how that helps or 10 hinders your process. So, could you give us feedback on that first? 11 Mr. Lait: Yeah, I think that’s… I think that’s a good idea. Maybe… I think it might be good to first 12 go down the list that we have on packet Page 8 and continues on 9. And maybe we could just 13 go down the line and see what items Commissioner’s want pulled. You know, it may be… 14 Chair Lauing: Well… but the other way to do it is just to go through them and if they are quick, 15 we knock them off and if they don’t then we say well, this one seems a little bit bigger, let’s put 16 this one out… over. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: I just want to… so that’s fine and I just wanted to mention because this has come up a 1 couple times as we’ve been doing these ordinances. And Commissioner Rosenblum has left I 2 recognize at this point but it’s… This is an effort that Staff initiated a few years ago to clear up 3 the code but it wasn’t always… Our first run on this was to have minor amendments and to 4 have things that are not controversial because we agree that if it’s a big controversial item, we 5 should have a hosted public meeting specifically on that issue. But I want to push back a little 6 bit on the idea that they all have to be minor in nature and there can’t be a change in policy or 7 direction because that’s not how the report is presented. And what we’re trying to do here is 8 address some operational challenges and procedures that we’ve run into at the Planning 9 Counter or processing applications. So, we don’t think any of these things are hugely… Are huge 10 policy shift but they may be a little bit more than minor, we recognize that. And as for as the 11 final product goes, we’re presenting… This is a Staff ordinance that we’re presenting to the 12 Commission to seek the Commissions feedback and input. We may make some modifications 13 just based on the feedback that we receive. It is possible as it has been for the previous years 14 that the Planning Commission and Staff may have a different perspective on which ones should 15 advance to the Council. And the way that we’ve done that in the past is that Staff has moved 16 the ordinance forward but in our Staff report we have a very detailed discussion about where 17 were the points that the Planning Commission supported and the areas that they didn’t 18 support, then the reason that support was not there. And we presented the totality of the 19 ordinance to the Council so that they can have the flexibility to concur with the Commission 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. and pull things off or also alternatively, put things on if they think they need to move forward. 1 So, we're helping to facilitate a conversation in the best way that we can. 2 Chair Lauing: Right, you covered that on point… On Pages 30 and 31 in the packet which is 3 perfectly acceptable as you eventually go and have descending opinions or we have descending 4 opinions, perfectly fair. 5 It’s also kind of hard to estimate the amount of time this is going to take. It might take less time 6 as we start to pull things out and say we’re going to come back to them. I think we should… My 7 suggestion is we work through this for about an hour and see where we are. And then kind of 8 recalibrate relative to the other items that are on the agenda and see if we think it’s going to a 9 second meeting or we should just push on. 10 [Note - Female:] [unintelligible] 11 Chair Lauing: But we’re going to go through them in order, that’s right. And I think the simplest 12 way to do it is just to… Because someone might… Literally be simple is just to kind of go down 13 the row. I’ll go last as I often do when I sit in this chair and just see what the comments are. So, 14 this starts on Page 9, maybe we could take the first two together because they are about 15 transportation; Threshold on Transportation Demand Management. Do we want to start with 16 Commissioner Summa on that one and if anybody has no comments just say pass so we can rip 17 through these shorter ones? 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: Pass. 1 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, no, I just had a quick question. So, if the Council’s motion was for 2 it to be 50 or for it to be 50 trips, how… What… Does that mean they… Someone spoke wrong 3 during the meeting and they didn’t realize it until too late? 4 Mr. Lait: No, it’s a Staff error. It just… The official record that got memorialized and adopted by 5 the Council said 100. We have to go through this process to change it. 6 Commissioner Alcheck: You have to go through the process to rectify it, ok. That’s all… I just 7 didn’t understand. Ok, alright, I have no conflict with this one. 8 Commissioner Monk: Pass. 9 Commissioner Waldfogel: Pass [unintelligible -mic not on] 10 Commissioner Gardias: Pass [unintelligible- mic not on] 11 Chair Lauing: On One, ok. We’ll stay with you and what about Two? 12 Commissioner Gardias: Are we going through all of them or just one by one? 13 Chair Lauing: Well, we did one by one but now we’re on two and we’re going to come back this 14 way. 15 Commissioner Alcheck: Number Two then. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Ok. 1 Commissioner Gardias: Number Two? 2 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, he’s going (interrupted) 3 Chair Lauing: He did… Alright, what about you? 4 Commissioner Monk: Pass. 5 Chair Lauing: Yes? 6 Commissioner Monk: Pass. 7 Chair Lauing: Ok, sorry. I have nothing, go ahead. 8 Commissioner Gardias: So, I… Excuse me so I have a question on Two. So, what’s the… Yes, this 9 is clarification, I’d like to understand what is the association? Is there a definition of the 10 association in the Palo Alto Code? 11 Mr. Lait: Yeah, so this is… the City Council formed the Transportation Management Association; 12 they formed it. We have this… There’s a whole set of… They might… Do they have their own 13 Charter? I mean there’s a whole set of procedures for it. We’re just doing a work change. 14 Commissioner Gardias: Because association is legal organization (interrupted) 15 Mr. Lait: Yeah, yeah. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Gardias: Legally registered rights. This is a legal entity, authority is not a legal 1 entity so I think this the difference right, isn’t it? 2 Mr. Yang: Well and authority can be a legal entity as well, we just got the name wrong. So, 3 there is an entity that exists and we have the wrong name so we’re fixing it. 4 Commissioner Gardias: Ok, so it’s recorded as an association? Ok, good, thank you. 5 Chair Lauing: Let’s go Three, Four and Five. Commissioner Summa? 6 Commissioner Summa: Pass. 7 Commissioner Alcheck: Three, Four, Five, pass. 8 Commissioner Monk: Pass. 9 Chair Lauing: And you did. 10 Commissioner Gardias: Pass through Five. 11 Chair Lauing: Ok, why don’t you pick up Six then and come back this way. This is the one on the 12 garage placement and carports. 13 Commissioner Gardias: Ok, yeah so this is… Actually, we voted on this 2-years ago. If I… If we 14 have time just to go through the votes of how they were… How they fell so I can remember 15 how I voted but I remember there was discussion and we pulled it out. Because we felt that this 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. was rather a policy change as opposed to cosmetic change that should go through this 1 Commission without our review. So, my perspective the questions like this, can we get some… 2 And this is one of those that I would recommend maybe for pulling out till we get some 3 documentation or support documents from the Staff. And I would like to just get some statistics 4 which neighborhoods or some numbers that would illustrate what would be a true impact of 5 those changes. If we’re going to have the carport in the front as opposed to in the back. And I 6 understand totally that there is a context in place but then I think that this is in relationship to 7 the ADU Ordinance that we approve because this placement would affect the ADU Ordinance, 8 is this right? 9 Chair Lauing: Well, Mr. Lait suggested that there were going to be some potential policy issues 10 here so I don’t think there’s a debate about that right now. So, are you questioning whether it 11 should be a policy? 12 Commissioner Gardias: No, what I am saying is that I would like to just get some 13 documentation… I’d like to pull it out. I’m proposing to pull it out and then get more supportive 14 documentation… Supporting documentation that would allow us to make some judgment. 15 Chair Lauing: Ok, let me ask… Adding to the process issues here. What do you folks all think 16 about how many votes we should have for pulling it out? Is it one, two, three, four? One person 17 says majority, any other ideas? 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Gardias: Well, I mean if you are asking me, I’d like to just hear the discussion 1 about the topic so it’s… I understand that there are pros and cons. From my understanding is 2 that ADU Ordinance that would impact the placement of the carports, it may affect how you 3 could have an accessory dwelling unit on your lot. So, this has not been… This relationship is not 4 disclosed in here so I would like to ask Staff to provide more materials, specifically from the 5 ADU perspective. Is there any effect on that ordinance or not? 6 Mr. Lait: Yeah, so Chair if I can just respond to that, the specifics on the ADU? 7 Chair Lauing: Go ahead. 8 Mr. Lait: We don’t see any policy implication with this ordinance relative to ADUs. 9 Ms. Campbell: And just to kind of clarify, an AD… if you’re going to build an ADU, you can 10 remove the required covered parking to accommodate that ADU. So, if someone were to install 11 a carport or a covered detached garage, that could be torn down and that floor area could be 12 used for something else for the ADU. So, that’s… it doesn’t prohibit an ADU from being 13 developed. 14 Mr. Lait: This, from our perspective, is really about the garage placement requirement in the 15 code, which I think you’re familiar with, where it says set forth where a garage… If the pattern… 16 If the neighborhood pattern is such that most of the garages or carports are in the back, we 17 want to see new development have garages and carports in the back; that’s the Staff’s read of 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that provision. The way that it is now if the pattern is most of the carports or garages are in the 1 back of the lot, you have to put your garage back there but your carport can be in the front. 2 And we have… I hear your request for some data, we’re… I don’t see that we’re going to be able 3 to collect the kind of data that you’re seeking for… Seeking on that but we have done some 4 research talking to the folks that have been processing these permits for quite some time and 5 there are not a lot of examples of the carports being placed in the front when they have been in 6 conflict with the neighborhood garage placement criteria. There are a few examples out there 7 but it is not the prevalent pattern and so that’s why we think this is a correction. 8 Commissioner Gardias: Sure, I understand but… So, from… The reason that I am talking about 9 this relationship is because I think that with the ADU Ordinance that we passed, there may be a 10 placement of carports either at the back or allowing this at the front against the contextual 11 pattern may either constrict or not constrict placement of an ADU. Because if you have an ADU 12 at the back, right and then you have a garage at the back, then you have to also put that 13 carport at the back. 14 Chair Lauing: Ok, so I think the question is do we want to call this out or not so let’s get to that 15 but go ahead. 16 Mr. Lait: I was just going to say ADUs do not require parking in the City. That’s not… We don’t 17 have a parking requirement for ADUs. Parking… Under certain circumstances, covered parking 18 can be removed when placing an ADU but I’ll differ to the Chair. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Ok so for this exercise I would like to get consensus or a vote or other suggestions 1 if it’s other than four people that we need to vote for putting it on a pull-out list. I heard one 2 person say one… four and I heard one person say one. The question is if anybody… If every… If 3 one… If each of us picked out ten, we’d have forty so it seems like there should be some vote 4 rather than just anyone asking for this be sort of continued and debated. 5 Commissioner Alcheck: I guess I would support a process where if we’re going to go item by 6 item, we give everybody a chance to talk through it. So, maybe somebody might say this is a big 7 deal and somebody might say it’s not a big deal, they might persuade each other. And then 8 maybe after that preliminary discussion, you could determine whether a quick poll would be 9 required to figure out whether (interrupted) 10 Chair Lauing: Yeah, I’m asking what the poll should be? Should it be four to three or can it be 11 anyone one or any two? 12 Commissioner Alcheck: I don’t have a particular (interrupted) 13 Chair Lauing: Well, in absence of any then we would need four to pull it out. 14 Commissioner Monk: Chair Lauing, I did have my light up if you recall. So, I just wanted to ask 15 folks here if we think it makes sense to discuss Item Seven, which discusses what the definition 16 is… Of a carport. Should we have that discussion before we have the discussion on the 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. modification to the ordinance? Do you think one should go first because the way they have it 1 presented is the other way? I’m wondering if that will (interrupted) 2 Chair Lauing: If you do, we can. 3 Commissioner Monk: If that makes sense to… they are concurrent, ok so we’ll discuss them 4 concurrently, ok. I think we should just have the discussion. We’ve already started it, let’s just 5 discuss it. 6 Chair Lauing: Yeah so, we are, so your... Actually, your light is not on here but anyway go ahead, 7 continue. 8 Commissioner Alcheck: You have to push up or down. 9 Chair Lauing: But you’re speaking so we don’t need a light. 10 Commissioner Monk: But can you just check because… 11 Commissioner Alcheck: It’s the green one. 12 Chair Lauing: Yeah, it’s not. 13 Commissioner Monk: I don’t know, I’m not seeing a change [unintelligible] 14 Commissioner Alcheck: Try again. Sorry, it’s not my fault, this is the most confusing 15 [unintelligible] 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: So, in the meantime, I’ll opine on Six and Seven that I’m fine with them 1 as they are but if any… But if some of my colleagues or one have a very serious concern about 2 it, I think we should just put it on the list and if we have too many, we’ll whittle the list down. 3 Chair Lauing: Let’s see, I think Waldfogel had (interrupted) 4 Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, just a couple of things. I think you started to speak to this 5 about the prevalence of this issue. I mean I think that if this is just a clarification of placement 6 for a feature with… What is it, two walls or two open sides versus three open sides? 7 Mr. Lait: Yeah so speaking to Item Number Seven, if you read it unmodified (interrupted 8 Commissioner Waldfogel: Yes. 9 Mr. Lait: As proposed, you can simultaneous have a carport and a garage and meet both 10 definitions. 11 Commissioner Waldfogel: Well, I think there’s also a conflict with the Porte Cochere definition. 12 Mr. Lait: There… well, we can take a look at that. 13 Commissioner Waldfogel: I think you should take a look at that because that’s defined as three 14 or more open sides. 15 Mr. Lait: Ok but that’s different than… I mean that would not be considered a garage. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Waldfogel: But a carport and a Porte Cochere may overlap under these 1 definitions so I just think that if we want to be (interrupted) 2 Mr. Lait: Yeah, we can take a look at that. 3 Commissioner Waldfogel: We want to be careful. If the point is that we want to restrict a 4 parking facility in the front of the building, whether it’s in the form of a garage or carport, I 5 support that. I don’t want to make a change on Porte Cocheres without being thoughtful about 6 that. 7 Mr. Lait: Right. 8 Commissioner Waldfogel: And I’ll just make a side point on this, maybe it’s slightly off topic but 9 to meet this high-level goal of vehicle parking that’s not in front half of the lots. Something that 10 I’ve noticed over the last couple of years in residential neighborhoods is that I think our 11 driveway requirements are too narrow. So, I’m not seeing people use the garages that are 12 located in the back of lots because possibly because they don’t have the driving skills to get in 13 and out of them or because we don’t require a big enough turn around space. But I think that 14 that’s something we should potentially look at for next year, to meet our high-level objective of 15 actually… of parking actually ending up in or near the garage and not in front yard setbacks. 16 Mr. Lait: Ok and we… and to your point, I mean maybe there’s a… To the… Maybe there is a 17 need for us to clarify… Distinguish a carport from Porte Cochere as you pointed out. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Commissioner Alcheck, your light’s on. 1 Commissioner Alcheck: Ok, so we have dealt with this before and I would suggest that… I would 2 reiterate the comments that I made on the prior three occasions that we discuss this item. So, I 3 would share Commissioner Gardias and Commissioner Rosenblum’s suggestion that this might 4 be something that we want to visit. And I’ll suggest that… Look when… The notion that we 5 would essentially try to consistently approach the location of parking facilities on a lot is not 6 problematic for me. But I think actually there is a nuanced issue with the ADUs and I’ll tell you 7 why. And I had this conversation yesterday with City Attorney Albert Yang, which is that the 8 likelihood of a new development… A lot of ADUs are coming in by converting existing detached 9 garages into accessory dwelling units; which in assents eliminates parking for the home and the 10 result would not satisfy, for example, Commissioner Waldfogel’s desire for these people to be 11 able to get to the back. The answer Staff gave earlier about, you could always take down the 12 carport and make it an ADU also wouldn’t satisfy that requirement. So, the question is are we 13 really trying to eliminate the parking facility in the front and maybe what we want to do and I 14 think Council would be in it’s right to make that determination but I don’t think they make that 15 determination in the absence of understanding the effects on ADUs. Principally if you are to 16 build a new construction project today, the likelihood of you building two detached structures 17 in the rear of your lot is very low. The likelihood of you building a detached structure in your lot 18 that you would then take down for the purpose of rebuilding an ADU is unlikely and so to the 19 extent that if you can accommodate the parking somewhere in the front through a carport let’s 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. say, you’re actually less likely to tear that down in an effort to have an ADU because you don’t 1 have to pick between the two. So, I… it’s not that I’m opposed to this, I would support this 2 change, I just think we have to sort of figure out what is our goal. And I would argue the 3 following one comment about Commissioner Waldfogel’s suggestion that we widen the 4 concrete requirement. We are vastly… we are quickly, maybe not quickly enough, approaching 5 a world were car ownership may dramatically change. These structures that we’re approving 6 for build today are (interrupted) 7 Commissioner Waldfogel: I just want to make a point of order. I just think that that’s a false 8 and unknowable statement. 9 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, no, that’s fine. I believe that we are approaching that world. I 10 don’t think that it’s actually an argument that we can dispute but the point is that the notion 11 that we pay… I’ll just say this. The notion that we would encourage paving more, I couldn’t 12 imagine how that wouldn’t trigger some kind of CEQA analysis. How that wouldn’t affect 13 (interrupted) 14 Chair Lauing: Ok, anyway, you want [unintelligible](interrupted) 15 Commissioner Alcheck: Anyway, I’m saying I’m not opposed to the change if we determine that 16 that’s what we want. The question is how does it reconcile with our other goals, that’s my only 17 comment and then I’ll just quickly say something about the carport. It didn’t occur me that 18 there was a Port Cochere discrepancy there. I believe that we could change this to be even 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. more precise, for example, if we give a percentage. I believe in the past they’ve approached this 1 with a notion that it should be more than fifty percent open. So, if you look at the language of 2 this classification it says cover means a portion of a principal residential building on an 3 accessory building to residential use design for utilized shelter for one or more vehicles which 4 are open or unenclosed on two or more sides and including on the vehicle entry side. So, 5 obviously on the vehicle entry side, if you don’t have fifty percent of the front open you’re not 6 going to get your car in but on the other side the notion of louvers or some architectural 7 component. This seems to basically support a carport that’s just four posts, which I think it 8 architecturally restrictive. Maybe we can require seventy-five percent open and that allows 9 some architectural detailing and it would be a little less imprecise. Those are my two 10 comments. 11 Chair Lauing: Ok, Commissioner Monk, is your light still on? 12 Commissioner Monk: Yes. 13 Chair Lauing: Ok, go ahead. 14 Commissioner Monk: I just flipped it on for this issue. So, I just have a general comment about 15 how this was presented to us because it’s not how I typically receive a redline document. So, 16 it’s unclear to me what we’re trying to achieve as far as the ordinance goes under the 17 definitions because if we were to accept your proposed changes it would read, carport dot dot 18 dot, which is completely unenclosed on two or more sides. Is that what’s you’re looking to do? 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. To take out the parentheticals and have it read completely enclosed so am I reading that 1 correctly? 2 Ms. Campbell: Yes, you are. 3 Commissioner Monk: Ok because typically… Ok so redline would redline that stuff and it just 4 doesn’t look… I just want to make sure that I’m reading it correctly. So, I would propose putting 5 in language to the effect of mostly unenclosed an opposed to completely. I think it’s 6 problematic and contradictory with the rest of the sentence. I think it would be difficult to 7 comply with because you’re going to have framing on different sides and the roof, that would 8 make it not feasible to fully comply with the way that you’re making the proposed changes. 9 On the second part of that definition, I would consider adding in some language to alleviate any 10 concerns about it resulting in some sort of non-compliance with the new ADU Ordinances that 11 were inactive by the state and by our City. So, if that’s something that would be appropriate to 12 put in the definition, you don’t typically see that in the definitions. I would just encourage some 13 language to the effect that this isn’t in anyway intended to or Albert you can speak to that if 14 you’d like. I’m not trying to propose language but we just want to make sure that it's covered. 15 Chair Lauing: Well, for now, we’ve pulled this off at 6 and 7, do we want to hold on getting the 16 wording changes? If we’re going to take another look at this one. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: Well, yeah, I guess alternatively I mean I think if the Commission is articulating… I 1 mean I can understand the challenge with the word completely and I can understand also the 2 interest in wondering how some kind of aesthetic flexibility, we can look at that terminology. 3 So, not that’s not… I think it’s ok to have dialog, not be precise about the language but 4 communicate the intent for us to work on and communicate that to the Council. 5 Chair Lauing: Yeah, ok, great. 6 Commissioner Monk: So, just to continue, I just want to acknowledge the letter that we 7 received from Ronit Bodner. I thought what was presented in that letter addressed a lot of the 8 concerns that we have in that this is something that should be presented to Council as part of 9 the regular legislative process and not as a minor clarification. These are material changes in 10 the building requirements for a carport and I couldn’t agree more. Thank you. 11 Chair Lauing: Commissioner Gardias, your light is on. 12 Commissioner Gardias: Sorry this is past light. Thank you. 13 Chair Lauing: Oh, ok. No other items on this, we’ve got this on the potential carve-out area. So, 14 Number eight… I’d like to go back to our potentially quicker process of just running down the 15 line on these things so Number Eight? 16 Commissioner Summa: Pass. 17 Chair Lauing: Eight. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Monk: I pass on Eight, Nine and Ten. 1 Commissioner Waldfogel: Pass. 2 Commissioner Gardias: Pass through Nine. 3 Chair Lauing: Ok, I think we’re passed through Nine, do you want to go to Ten then? 4 Commissioner Summa: Pass. 5 Chair Lauing: [unintelligible] Commissioner Monk, Ten? 6 Commissioner Monk: Pass. 7 Commissioner Waldfogel: I’m just trying to sort out, is this a clerical error or is this a change in 8 any way? Number Ten the Map Exception Process? I mean does it change anything? 9 Mr. Lait: Ok, yeah, so thank you. Give us a second here to jog our memories. 10 Commissioner Waldfogel: We can keep going if you need some time. I’m sorry to be asking hard 11 questions but it was a little too complicated for me parse. 12 Mr. Lait: So, this one is we have a process in our subdivision section of our code that allows an 13 applicant to request a Map Exception to standards in the… Title 18, our Development Code 14 Standards. And we believe that the Map Exception process allows for that today without any 15 change. This added language here just puts it in black and white a practice that has been done 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. for many years using the Parcel Map Exception to grant changes to Development Standards. 1 This Commissioner considered a project, I think it was on California, there were some three lots 2 with a Parcel Map Exception for three lots. I think you considered a Parcel Map Exception for 3 the Bowmen School. There’s a number of examples where we’ve used a Parcel Map Exception 4 for Development Standards like lot area and things like that and so now we’re just making it 5 explicatively clear. 6 Commissioner Waldfogel: Just as a point of clarification, this isn’t code your changing but this 7 language may be granted only by the City Council after recommendation by the Planning 8 Commissioner. Does that mean the Planning Commission needs to make an affirmative finding 9 and the City Council does not have the discretion to do this without an affirmative finding by 10 the Planning Commission? I mean what does that language mean? 11 Mr. Yang: We would read that language that the Planning Commission has to make a 12 recommendation so that the item would need to be considered by the Planning Commission. 13 Not necessarily the Planning Commission would need to make an affirmative recommendation. 14 Commissioner Waldfogel: That doesn’t seem like a plain language reading of that piece of code. 15 Mr. Lait: So, I just want to make sure that we’re in the same section. So, right after 16 [unintelligible][interrupted] 17 Commissioner Waldfogel: It’s right after the red section. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: Such exceptions may be granted only by the City Council after recommendation by 1 the Planning Commission. So, you can have any kind of recommendation; one of support, one 2 of against. 3 Commissioner Waldfogel: I would use different language for that then recommendation. I mean 4 then… The language I would use would only after consideration. 5 Mr. Lait: If you want we can say consideration or review, this is consistent language. 6 Commissioner Waldfogel: Well, no but I just… I mean I am just… This may not be the right time 7 or place but I’m really taking issue with this notion that recommendation just means the same 8 as a consideration as opposed to an affirmative finding. 9 Chair Lauing: Ok, we’re through Ten I believe. Ok, go back to Eleven, anyone wants to speak on 10 that starting with Commissioner Summa. 11 Commissioner Summa: I believe the only change here is to add above grade because before it 12 just said… read 3-feet, like a 3-foot. So, I don’t think it’s a substantive change at all. I know 13 that… I believe Eric Rosenblum…. Commissioner Rosenblum mentioned it but I think it’s just 14 because he didn’t read it maybe so I don’t have a problem with this one. 15 Chair Lauing: Ok, others? Commissioner Alcheck, you’re good? 16 Commissioner Alcheck: I guess I’m… The… I wouldn’t have flagged this one but I was curious if 17 Staff would help us understand really what are they preventing I guess or what… 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Campbell: I can go ahead and jump in here. 1 Commissioner Alcheck: Can you clarify (interrupted) 2 Chair Lauing: Please do, thanks. 3 Commissioner Alcheck: I didn’t want to flag this one but after Eric mentioned it, I kind of looked 4 at it again and I thought ok what are they curing? 5 Ms. Campbell: Ok, so there’s a table in 1812 in the R-1 Chapter that basically has this laundry 6 list of all of the exemptions from floor area and one… This is one of the line items in that table. 7 So, what we’ve done is we’ve just added the clarification and this reflects exactly the same 8 language that’s in the definition for low-density residential projects… For low-density projects. 9 So, basically… It’s just basically if as long as your basement isn’t more than 3-feet above grade 10 and it was just adding that clarifying above grade so it's just not 3-feet; just say above grade so 11 there’s a relationship to what that's supposed to mean. And it’s taken directly out of the 12 existing definition for floor area for low-density residential so really, it’s just a clarification of an 13 existing definition. 14 Commissioner Alcheck: If you don’t mind, I’d like to follow up. So, I was under the impression 15 that there were requirements for single-family new construction that your first floor couldn’t 16 begin more than 3-feet above grade; which essentially created a… Which made it unnecessary 17 to distinguish where a basement could exist. So, for example, if you were going to build a new 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. construction, you couldn’t build a walk up that puts you 5-feet above grade so that you only 1 had to dig 5-feet down to have a 10-foot basement let’s say. And my question here is this would 2 affect existing structures whose floors are already in place so is that right? 3 Ms. Campbell: Actually, that’s not (interrupted) 4 Commissioner Alcheck: Is this like if you were going to build a basement under a historic 5 structure? 6 Ms. Campbell: No so for an existing project, if you wanted to build a basement today and if you 7 didn’t want that basement to count toward floor area for your site, it has to only be a certain 8 distance above grade and that’s where this number comes in. So, if it’s 4-feet above grade, then 9 your basement is going to count toward your floor area for your site. If it’s less than, then we 10 won’t count that basement towards the floor area of your site. So that’s why… the idea is you 11 have your basements that are low and so it’s not a visual impact to the site, it keeps your 12 building smaller and that kind of thing. 13 Commissioner Alcheck: Got it, ok. So, is this similar to the other requirement of not having your 14 first floor above 3-feet? 15 Ms. Campbell: No. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: Because if the top of the floor is 3-feet above grade and you count all 1 the studs and all the framing, then it kind of necessitates the requirement that your basement 2 also not be above that same number so I’m confused. 3 Ms. Campbell: Yeah, I’m confused about what you’re suggesting for this particular requirement. 4 I’m not familiar with that. 5 Commissioner Alcheck: Oh, I was under the impression that there’s a requirement in our code 6 that says that for the first floor of new development can’t be higher than 3-feet or then it could 7 theoretically could qualify as a second floor; which is why the basement would then be deemed 8 FAR accountable. 9 Ms. Campbell: We don’t have a minimum requirement for that height that I’m aware of. 10 Commissioner Alcheck: Ok. 11 Chair Lauing: Anyone else on Eleven? 12 Commissioner Summa: That was Eleven. 13 Chair Lauing: Yeah, I know and I said anyone else on Eleven? Let’s move to Twelve then, this is 14 that… 15 Commissioner Gardias: Just a quick comment if I may? Just [interrupted] 16 Chair Lauing: Are we on Eleven now or what? 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Gardias: On Eleven, yes please, so just wait… When one reads it and I listen to 1 the discussion it’s obvious what it says but when I read it without the discussion, I really don’t 2 understand this sentence. What is great than 3-feet above grade? It doesn’t specifically say 3 what is greater than 3-feet above grade so I would just suggest some clarification that we’re 4 looking for the floor level (interrupted) 5 Ms. Campbell: Yes, I think we can do that. 6 Commissioner Gardias: Or a ceiling level or just (interrupted) 7 Ms. Campbell: Right or we can refer them back to the definition which (interrupted) 8 Commissioner Gardias: Subfloor. 9 Ms. Campbell: Is much more specific. 10 Commissioner Gardias: Typically, it’s the subfloor, ok. Thank you. 11 Chair Lauing: Alright, Twelve? 12 Commissioner Summa: So, I do have some comments about Twelve and that is that I think in 13 office use, especially in CN, CS, and CC, there’s a lot of confusion about different kinds of offices 14 and what they mean. So, I would say that business offices are… Needs… Under a medical, 15 professional, and business offices should not be located on the ground floor. Does that mean 16 administrative offices as defined in the code? General business office as defined in the code? 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. So, I… and there’s a lot of question and there’s a lot of concerns about these uses in the little c, 1 as I like to call them, zones. So, I think that that could be clearer and I also, under number Two, 2 occupy space that was not occupied by housing etc.; business service, retail services, personal 3 services, eating and drinking. I also think that maybe… It doesn’t… I think there are some things 4 that… uses in there like may warehouse that should be added and that it should be covered 5 too. I’m not sure if that list is complete and that’s it on that one. Does that make sense? 6 Mr. Lait: Yes, I hear it clearly what you’re asking. I think it goes a little bit beyond what we were 7 trying to do. 8 Commissioner Summa: Ok. 9 Mr. Lait: It’s… And I’m not saying that we don’t have a position against it but I know there’s 10 been a community conversation about different types of office. And what we were specifically 11 interested in on this one is the strikeout language on Packet Page 15 because we believe that 12 creates a loophole wherein the CS zone… On any CS zone property, if there was housing on that 13 property or if there was no housing on that property which is most of them, then you can do 14 office. And we’re thinking that the one above it too is actually… Yeah, the one above it too… I’m 15 sorry. It’s actually already covered… Captured in Two where it says not occupied by housing 16 but then it lists all these other uses and so it captures the greater universe; whereas three 17 throws out that universe and simple just say housing for the CS zone property. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: Yeah, I think striking out Three is good. I was wondering if the list in 1 Two (interrupted) 2 Mr. Lait: Yeah, we updated that list last year to add neighborhood business service but we 3 haven’t heard any other conversation and haven’t run across any specific issues to add more 4 items on there. Certainly, this is an amendment that is being considered by the Commission, it’s 5 been advertised if the Commission feels like there’s more that needs to be added to that it’s 6 within your authority to make that recommendation. 7 Commissioner Summa: Ok so I was wondering if it covered all retail like uses and the one I 8 really thought of was warehouse but I will stop there. 9 Chair Lauing: Commissioner Alcheck? 10 Commissioner Alcheck: Ok, sorry, I’m sorry to bring this up. I just… the reason why I mention 11 this is because again, it always comes back to this sort of new ADU process you have. I’m going 12 to go back to Number Eleven for a second. On Page 5 of this… of the Single-Family Technical 13 Manual, which I know is not the ordinance, it specifically says that basements of Category One 14 and Two historic homes or contributing structures in a historic district even if greater than 3-15 feet don’t count as floor area. One of my questions here is because these structures are built, 16 whatever’s existing exists so the comment you made about sort of discouraging basements 17 from rising above a certain level and being unsightly. In theory, these basements already exist 18 and so my issue is that if you now count area that you didn’t use to count, then someone who 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. would then want to let’s say build an ADU attached in their rear may not be able to anymore 1 because they don’t have the adequate floor area. And so, the concern that I have here is 2 basically what we’re saying is we want to start counting square footage that we didn’t use to 3 count. 4 Mr. Lait: I think it’s… I think what we’re trying to do is exactly what you want us to do, which 5 excludes that floor area. So, we’re saying even if it’s above 3-feet above grade, even if it’s 6 bigger than… More than, we’re saying it doesn’t count toward floor area. 7 Commissioner Alcheck: I understand. 8 Mr. Lait: Ok, thank you. 9 Commissioner Alcheck: Ok because that’s… I was confused. I thought that what… Yeah so, it’s 10 basically the same. I apologize, thanks for making that clarification. 11 With respect to Twelve, my major concern with this one is I actually think it applies to a very 12 small number of parcels and I was concerned coming into this that did we invite the individuals 13 who own these parcels to participate in this discussion or is there any sort of notice that we 14 may want to go through to indicate to these parcels owners that this changed? I don’t 15 completely understand this one so I’m not entirely sure. I would suggest pulling it but because 16 it was so few parcels, I wondered if it merited a discussion and I don’t know. I’ll just throw that 17 out there, I don’t feel strongly about it. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Commissioner Monk, Twelve. 1 Commissioner Monk: This was included amongst the minor text clarifications section so to me 2 removing an entire section of an ordinance does not seem like a minor text clarification. I’m not 3 inclined to support this without further understanding of what the impact or the intent is and it 4 seems like something that should go to Council in my viewpoint. 5 Chair Lauing: So, you are suggesting we pull that one for further discussion? 6 Commissioner Monk: I’m just not really sure what the impact is of pulling that text is. 7 Chair Lauing: Ok, you’re fine. I mean these all go to Council eventually so but that’s fine; 8 because we’re trying to get together a list here so let’s do that. 9 Commissioner Monk: I guess for minor text clarifications that’s pretty obvious when that’s the 10 case and to me taking out it… this is not a text clarification. I’d rather have some more color 11 around what is trying to be accomplished. Chair, I know you did give some background on it. Is 12 the Commissioner stratified with this? I’m just curious. 13 Chair Lauing: Well, let’s see what some other folks say. Commissioner Waldfogel, do you have 14 any comments? 15 Commissioner Waldfogel: Are you finished with that? Yeah, thanks. I’m actually not sure 16 because I actually find this language extremely hard to parse so I’d like a little bit of help 17 because it keeps going positive and negative on me. So, I’m not quite sure what’s in and out as I 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. read through it so help me out a little bit here to just explain what are the conditions where 1 office would or would not be allowed in the CS district. Because I’m kind of… maybe everybody 2 else here is perfectly clear but I’m not. 3 Mr. Lait: No, it’s one that requires a few reads. 4 Commissioner Waldfogel: I’ve done that. 5 Mr. Lait: So, what this is saying is that in the CS, CN and CC zones, there are some additional 6 office restrictions that apply and they apply under these circumstances. The conversion of non-7 office space… housing and non-office space to office in these three zones can only occur under 8 these prescribed scenarios. The first one is the office has always been there, that makes sense. 9 The second one says for all these three zones if it has not been occupied by housing, 10 neighborhood business services, retail services, personal services, eating and drinking services 11 and automobile services; if it's not been occupied by those then you can convert to office. 12 Warehouse can convert of office under that scenario and the reason for that is… I mean these 13 are a list of uses that are seen as supporting the neighborhood and/or neighborhood serving 14 uses and so those are trying to be protected. Three is a subset of Two and it specifically carves 15 out the CS zone and it says in the CS Zone, if you’ve got housing or if you did not have housing 16 on that property, you can do office. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Waldfogel: I don’t want to pick on any size bullets. Let’s talk about… I’m just 1 trying to think of some examples. So, you’ve got like that Quonset hut building that CrossFit is 2 in and I’m trying to remember what its use was (interrupted) 3 Mr. Lait: Yeah, I don’t know. 4 Commissioner Waldfogel: Before CrossFit was there but… so which bucket? I’m just trying to 5 work out what bucket that would be and what the potential conversions… I mean under the 6 current circumstance, that could be taken over and converted to the office because of the CS 7 carve out, is that correct? 8 Mr. Lait: Yeah, so under the current zoning if it’s a… if a CS zone property is not used for 9 housing, it can convert to office. And we believe that, well one, the Retail Preservation 10 Ordinance kind of makes this a little bit moot because the Retail Preservation Ordinance casts 11 an even wider net than Item Number Two. The Retail Preservation says any retail or retail like 12 use that’s in existence as of a certain date has to stay there. And so, if we didn’t make this 13 change, we still have that Retail Preservation Ordinance but this has been one that’s been on 14 our list and I think that it still… We would like to have it cleared up. Clarified and cleared up so 15 it’s not… it just makes it cleaner for us to administer the code. 16 Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok, actually that helped a lot because I wasn’t sure about the 17 relationship between this and Retail Preservation and that actually helped connect a couple of 18 dots. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: Yeah, that… if we did nothing, we’re… There’s no change but from esthetics and 1 administration, we would prefer it to be removed. 2 Ms. Campbell: And I just want to add one clarification to that. Office is restricted with 3 Conditional Use Permits so it’s only up to 5,000-square feet and anything above 5,000-square 4 feet would require that use permit. 5 Commissioner Monk: Could I just add one thing before we move on? Would it make sense to 6 reference the Retail Ordinance in this ordinance in some capacity just so that when someone is 7 coming to the code and reading it, they are not reading it in a vacuum and they know there’s a 8 related code section that they might also want to reference? And likewise, in the Retail 9 Ordinance to reference this section. 10 Mr. Lait: Sure, so yeah (interrupted) 11 Chair Lauing: That seems pretty easy and helps clarify it. 12 Mr. Lait: Yeah, we’d like to maybe add that too. I think Albert was whispering in my ear that we 13 could have some kind of provision that says that in the event of any conflict between this and 14 the Retail Preservation Ordinance in section blah blah blah, that provision [unintelligible]. 15 Chair Lauing: Ok. 16 Mr. Lait: Ok, so we’ll make that change. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Good. Good suggestion. Alright so we’re onto Thirteen, let’s keep the same 1 batting order. 2 Commissioner Summa: So, I didn’t really understand the point of this one and given 3 Commissioner Waldfogel’s earlier question about the other Map Act Item and I guess this is a 4 question for Staff. Do… Doesn’t the PTC have to review this? 5 Mr. Lait: Well, the PTC and I’m going to maybe need some help here from the colleagues but 6 there was a… so the reason we’re doing this is to… let’s just back up a step because this does 7 refer to the… It relates to the referral, right? Ok. So, last year or earlier this year the Council 8 adopted this provision where the Director can differ any project that is… requires City Council 9 approval or one of the applications requires City Council approval or major policy… Basically, it 10 allows the Director to differ any actions being considered like an Architectural Review Board 11 Action, CUP, all that stuff can be pushed to the City Council under broad circumstances. We 12 believe that includes the subdivision maps that are processed in our code as well but because 13 we don’t have this specific reference in the language, a project came up where there was this 14 debate that we had internally at Staff, which was does the code allow for Director deferrals of 15 these maps to the City Council when it’s a non-controversial map? I mean we were able to 16 make the decision on it but the map was associated with another permit that was going to go 17 to the City Council for approval. I’ll just say site and design by way of example and so we were 18 kind of stuck on this procedural issue, can we send the map and the site and design to the City 19 Council for a decision or do we have to declare that this something that we need PTC guidance 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. on, even though it was a really straightforward map, to get it to the City Council? And so, all this 1 language does is it gives us the ability to link that map, that otherwise has to be approved by 2 the Director, and allows us to move it forward to the City Council along with its other Council-3 related permits. It’s awfully nuanced and more… We write it down because we stubble on but 4 it’s not a huge process change and we believe it’s reflective of the Council’s action earlier this 5 year that gives the Director the ability to move things up to Council if it’s appropriate to do so. 6 Commissioner Summa: Ok, thank you. 7 Chair Lauing: And this says, and PTC has already reviewed it in a non-map public hearing. 8 Mr. Lait: That’s right. Yeah, I’m actually trying to remember the (interrupted) 9 Chair Lauing: So, we’ve already seen it at the time. 10 Mr. Lait: You saw it in some context already. 11 Chair Lauing: Right, pre-map. 12 Mr. Lait: Saw the site and design, it was… But… And you saw the project but I don’t know if they 13 saw the map. And so, the question was, well gosh, now do we have to send a map back to the 14 Planning Commission? 15 Chair Lauing: Right, so this is just a later stage deferral. Commissioner Alcheck? 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, so I actually agree with this change but it is a good opportunity 1 for me to demonstrate sort of another issue that I have with the process that was sort of 2 outlined at the beginning of this meeting. Which is let’s say we didn’t agree with this position 3 and Staff… As Jonathan already articulated at the beginning of the meeting, they may take a 4 different position than us. And then the Staff report that goes to Council will in an effort 5 articulate our concern but maintain the ordinance as written and here’s my issue. I’m not 6 exactly sure where Staff would have the authority to sort of disagree on whether any of these 7 items are clerical and minor and where they are not. And I agree with the suggestion that this 8 isn’t just clerical and administrative, we are actually exercising an opportunity here to make 9 decisions. The problem is that if the ordinance moves forward without edits by this 10 Commission, it strips this Commission of the opportunity to essentially oversee and help Staff 11 determine what should the policy be. So, if for example we take issue with one of these items 12 and say this is policy and we need to spend more time on this and Staff goes no, we disagree. 13 Then the Commission is essentially stripped of the sort of power and authority to participate in 14 the process. And the discomfort I have is that the suggestion that this is minor creates an 15 uncomfortable context for City Council because if they fail to read our minutes and Staff 16 doesn’t articulate the narrate of our argument as well as, frankly I think we could, then there’s 17 a little bit of conflict of interest. So, while I agree with this one (interrupted) 18 Chair Lauing: Yeah, I got you. 19 Commissioner Alcheck: I’m a little… The process here is a little concerning. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: But I think the process here you’re describing is not the intent even of the written 1 document that will go to Council. So, Jonathan, why don’t you speak first? 2 Mr. Lait: Well, so, yeah, I mean I… The reason we noted it in the Staff report and I made an 3 extra effort to communicate it in the presentation is to sort of navigate what I thought was a 4 pretty awkward experience a few years ago as we kind of did our first one of these ordinance 5 changes. And not everyone was on the Commission at that time but it was… I think it was a 6 reflection of that series of meetings would show that there was… It was not a smooth process 7 and so we wanted to be clear about what our intent is. And then it is our job I would say to 8 make these recommendations to City Council. It’s fully within what we believe to be our scope 9 of authority to make these recommendations and I would argue or suggest that this is the 10 process where we are engaging the Planning Commission in its conversation. There will be 11 minutes, there will be a Staff report, one of you will attend the City Council meeting to offer 12 those comments to the City Council in that forum. We, in fact, made changes to our Staff report 13 as a result of this discussion last year where we include this blurb for each of these things in the 14 Council reports and we’ve been sending those to the Chair [Note-asking] did we get this right? 15 And we have a dialog back and forth about that when those opportunities happen. I don’t think 16 we had any conflicts or issues in this year so I feel like there’s… and we’re having this 17 conversation now in the absence of a critical issue. I mean we already heard from 18 Commissioner Alcheck that he supports this amendment so I kind of feel like we’re rehashing 19 this in a moment where we really don’t need to do that. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: I don’t dispute the authority that you can make the recommendations. 1 The point I’m making is when they are lumped together, something this simple and something 2 more complicated, for City Council to be able to navigate that in one meeting is complicated 3 and that’s the part that (interrupted) 4 Chair Lauing: Yeah but I think the process… The end game process is that we might pull out two 5 or three of these, we might debate them, we might then vote in a different way than what City 6 is going to recommend. The City thinks about it and says we’re still going to recommend it 7 because we don’t agree but they call out here’s the PTC’s position on these two items. We 8 don’t have an agreement, now you seven Council Members have to make a decision. So, that 9 way both… It’s been hashed by us, it’s been hashed by them, we got a dialog together and then 10 here are the twenty areas we agree, here are the two areas we don’t, then they have to make a 11 call. Ok, others on Thirteen? 12 Commissioner Waldfogel: I have a question. 13 Chair Lauing: Go ahead. 14 Chair Lauing: Again, just a point of clarification on this. I think I support it but I’m just trying to 15 understand if there any scenario under this in combination with any other Director 16 discretionary approvals where projects would completely bypass the Planning Commissioner? 17 Where it would just get processed by Staff? I’m just… Because I know the Explanatory Tax 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. describes a scenario which an intent but that’s not what the actual code language says so I just 1 want to understand if that’s a scenario. 2 Mr. Lait: Yeah, no I believe the answer to that question is no. The types of applications that you 3 would see that would be included in this would either be… It’d either be a standalone map 4 application which the Director routinely approves or reviews I should say and makes a decision 5 on. If its an acceptation, it has to go to the PTC and then on to the City Council. If it’s a site and 6 design application, that has to go to the PTC and then on to the City Council. I suppose if it’s an 7 ARB application but then the Director still makes the decision. 8 Mr. Yang: [unintelligible- no mic] 9 Mr. Lait: CUP has to go to the Planning Commission. 10 Mr. Yang: [unintelligible -no mic] 11 Mr. Lait: On a request for a hearing. If… That’s right. That’s right so no, I don’t… I’m not… I can’t 12 think of an application type where the Planning Commission would be (interrupted) 13 Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok thanks, that clarification helps. Thank you. 14 Chair Lauing: Ok. 15 Commissioner Gardias: Yes so exactly… Thank you. So exactly, I had the same concerns that 16 Mike had just… named when he spoke first. I was thinking that pretty much there would be a 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. process to bypass the Commission and then just reading the issued language. the proposed text 1 didn’t agree with this… What I understood as an issue was and I was thinking pretty much there 2 should not be any direct submittal to the Council. That this should be… my understanding was 3 submittals to the City Council would be dealt for those projects that were reviewed by the 4 Planning and Transportation Commission but the intent is no, is this correct? 5 Mr. Lait: So, that’s… We’re talking about one application type that is the Parcel Map, the 6 Preliminary Parcel Map, which is traditionally reviewed by the Director. The Planning 7 Commission doesn’t have a role in that process today and what we’re trying to do is say on 8 projects where we want to forward something onto the City Council because of some other 9 entitlement. A site and design would come already before the Planning Commission and that’s 10 what happened in one instance that we’re talking about; that we’re referencing. So, again, this 11 isn’t designed to… The reason it’s written this way is because the language in here says that the 12 Director that makes the decision or sends it to the Planning Commission and City Council for 13 review when the Director feels like there’s an issue that needs to be made. That process still 14 exists, if we felt like there was an issue that we weren’t able to make it at staff level [crosstalk], 15 it would still go through that same process. All we’re saying is for those other ones that are 16 more minor in nature, tradition… Typical but there’s this other application, we want to be able 17 to group those together. 18 Commissioner Gardias: Ok so thank you very much, then I’m fine with the proposed change. 19 Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Ok, on Fourteen, which is collection time for Officers. Let’s start with… sorry? 1 Thirteen? 2 Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, just one other point of clarification. This language was prior to 3 taking such action, the Director of Planning shall hold a public hearing. So, what is the proposed 4 venue for that public hearing because it sounds like you can’t forward it… The Director can’t 5 forward it to Council without holding that public hearing. 6 Mr. Lait: We have Director hearings all the time, at least once a… We have them scheduled for 7 once a month and they take place either here or in other conference rooms that we have 8 available. 9 Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok, thank you. 10 Mr. Lait: On this Item Fourteen that’s coming up, just a clarification. So, I thought Commissioner 11 Rosenblum’s comments were kind of enjoyable on how this gets scheduled. So, I just wanted to 12 state that the intent of this is to strike the specific reference from the code and leave it to the 13 Planning Commission through its rules and procedures, which we hope to have a conversation 14 about earlier next year, to set the date and time… The date where this would happen. Not that 15 it’s just going to be this free-flowing concept but you will actually (interrupted) 16 Chair Lauing: Right. 17 Mr. Lait: Decided. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Right, that’s exactly what I was going to say and he asked for consistency with 1 other Commissions and the constituency is that they now have the flexibility to choose when to 2 do the election of Officers but once you do that, it doesn’t change every month. You get on a 3 different annual schedule. One other comment though in the wording, which is actually better 4 in the ordinance but not as it’s explained, there’s the unfortunate reference to maintaining a 1-5 year term limit. Just the words term limits have implications and that’s not the intent to limit 6 anybody to only 1-year ever. And I just think it’s… 7 Commissioner Alcheck: One-year at a time. 8 Chair Lauing: At a time, yeah so if that could just be clarified. 9 Commissioner Monk: I would just say 12-month period. 10 Chair Lauing: We’re just going to do down the rows here on this stuff. 11 Commissioner Summa: [unintelligible – no mic] 12 Chair Lauing: Yeah, we’re on Fourteen. I was just tagging onto the Assistant Director’s general 13 comments about the flexibility that’s being created here, just to kind of set the stage for the 14 discussion. But the other point that I was raising was this term limit just has implications that 15 aren’t intended so I just think that there’s some language change there. Why don’t we go ahead 16 and Commissioner Summa, did you have anything on that? 17 Commissioner Summa: On Fourteen? 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Yeah, ok. Alcheck? 1 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah so, I’ll just chime in here. I think actually it’s a very good point. It 2 didn’t even occur to me when I read it and it’s happened in my experience. Commissioner 3 Eduardo Martinez served at Chair during my 10-year and the then Vice Chair was not 4 reappointed and in the absence of that reappointment we could have selected a new Chair 5 from the remaining Commissioners but we chose to reappoint Commissioner Martinez and he 6 served 2-terms. And so, the language kind of sounds like it would prohibit that so I actually 7 think that’s a really good idea. And I actually would suggest that we change the sentence a little 8 more so it would say something like serve in such a capacity for 12-months at a time or 1-year 9 at a time (interrupted) 10 Chair Lauing: It says that for 1-year each. 11 Commissioner Alcheck: Until… Then I would add at which point another election should take 12 place. I don’t think it should say until a successor is elected because I think we should codify 13 that elections should take place regularly, as opposed to… Here’s my [unintelligible], the reason 14 why this got all messed up is because the City Council had a very difficult time recruiting people 15 to this Commission and as a result, they actually unilaterally extended the terms. I originally… 16 my term was supposed to end in June 2017 and about 3-year ago they extended it to December 17 2017 and in the process, it became problematic. I guess my point is, is that (interrupted) 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: But the phrase here doesn’t refer to just the person that is elected. They could… 1 The Commission could decide to elect a new Vice Chair or somebody could resign or something 2 so it was meant to give us maximum flexibility but I agree with you. It should be tightened up a 3 little bit so it’s not misunderstood. 4 Commissioner Alcheck: Ok. 5 Chair Lauing: So, you could say annual terms and notwithstanding the foregoing as Attorney’s 6 say. There are no limitations to the number of terms someone can serve as an officer or 7 something like that, [unintelligible] change. 8 Commissioner Alcheck: So is it your vision that in the near term we would specifically clarify in 9 our bylaws when (interrupted) 10 Chair Lauing: Yes, right. 11 Commissioner Alcheck: I would just make one point there, which is that I… I don’t know where 12 everybody stands on this but I… Despite the fact that I don’t think it was the original intent for 13 outcoming Commissions to choose incoming leadership. I accept… I acknowledge that I don’t 14 believe that was the original intent. I believe the original intent was for the new members to 15 choose new leadership. There are two problems with that, the first is that if you have a term 16 ending Chair, there’s no one to preside over the meeting or a term ending Vice Chair and term 17 ending Chair. You have no one to preside over that meeting, that’s problem number one and 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. problem number two is that in our practice now for the last 4-years, we’ve actually had the 1 outgoing or term ending participates, so it’s the opposite of Commissioner Gardias’s point of 2 view, select the future leadership. And what I’ve personally found is that has been very helpful 3 because it allows the Commissioners who are familiar with the practices of the different 4 Commissioners to participate even if they are being termed off. Even if they “have no dog in the 5 race”, they might have a more informed opinion about who might make a better leader. 6 Whereas a new Commissioner who has never served like for example [Billy Riggs] who may be 7 unfamiliar with us doesn’t. And the significances of not making the decision today is that one of 8 those individuals who participated in the vote tonight who I believe would support my… This 9 argument that I’m making and opposed the argument Commissioner Gardias would make, 10 wouldn’t be there in January to participate in that discussion about it. That’s not to say 11 anything, I’m just making that point so that you’re aware of it and I think that there’s a vote 12 there that won’t get heard in January. 13 Chair Lauing: So, I think we get another dip at this when we come back with the bylaws so I 14 don’t think we have to really beat this up or take it offline or pull out. But let’s continue if other 15 Commissioners have comments, Commissioner Monk? 16 Commissioner Monk: Again, just looking at this purely from how it was drafted and the original 17 language which reads the Commission should elect its Officers annually at the first meeting of 18 November. So, I would hope that in the future we would receive changes that are redlined that 19 it would be more accurate so the Commission… I don’t know why Commission and elect are 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. read. Those are language that hasn’t changed so it’s just confusing to me when I’m reading this 1 for the first time. I’d like to see original context listed as it is originally. Shouldn’t be italicized, it 2 should just be black unless you want to make Commission capitalized and maybe that’s why 3 you’re trying (interrupted) 4 Mr. Lait: That’s what happened. 5 Commissioner Monk: Do it. 6 Ms. Campbell: That is what happened. 7 Commissioner Monk: So, then the C should be red and capitalized, just to make it clear for us 8 who have never seen this ever before. I shouldn’t have to be referencing it back and forth so 9 just making that as a side note from a clerical standpoint. 10 As far as the proposed language goes, I would like to see something along the lines of the 11 Commission shall annually elect a Chairperson and Vice Chairperson from its Membership who 12 shall serve in such capacity for 12-months and just leave it at that or something as simple and 13 along those lines. 14 [Note Male:] That’s fine. 15 Commissioner Monk: Thank you. 16 Commissioner Waldfogel: I don’t think I have any comment. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Commissioner Gardias? 1 Commissioner Gardias: Very good so on the… You heard me talking about this many times so 2 probably I should not be talking about this any longer but first, congratulations to the newly 3 elected Chairmen and Vice Chair; congratulations. 4 Commissioner Monk: Thank you. 5 Commissioner Gardias: However, so I resent the comments that some people are enlightened 6 and they know better whom to elect and then they have the right to elect for others. I really 7 believe this is the direct democracy and the appointed body has the right to elect its leadership. 8 It means also incoming Members, they should have this right. and also, the same right that 9 Commissioner Summa and Commissioner Lauing had last time when they joined the 10 Commission. There was a curiosity because the prior leadership was pretty much elected by 11 two Council Members so for this reason, I think that things like this should not be happening. 12 Specifically, that this could make us… An argument against this Commission when we fight very 13 hard to get the public to come to our meetings and discuss it with us. We should be as crystal 14 clear from the perspective of our code and I believe that this is not right. It may be legal that 15 somebody elects people for others but I think that this is… This doesn’t feel right to me. And for 16 this reason, I think that elections should be happening once all the Council… City Council 17 appointees are installed. I think that sentence should read, the Commission shall elect Officers 18 annually at the first meeting upon installation of new appointees. Which clearly says that pretty 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. much that once the process takes place, the new appointed Commissioners by the City Council, 1 then the body selects its leadership. Thank you. 2 Chair Lauing: So those two bits of suggested wording frame the debate for the next time we’re 3 talking about the bylaws. Do you have another comment Commissioner Monk? 4 Commissioner Monk: Well, Commissioner Gardias is bringing up a point and he’s brought it up 5 now twice in this meeting so I don’t know if this is the time to discuss it but I did want to 6 address this point because he’s now made the same point twice. Is this the appropriate time? 7 Chair Lauing: Yeah but let’s keep it brief. 8 Commissioner Monk: I just want to say that I understand what you’re saying but we’re all 9 appointed by Council so the timing of it, to me, seems relevant. I think the bigger issue is what’s 10 most appropriate for this Board and I have a different perspective in that I was brought on this 11 year and Commissioner Summa was brought on as well and I don’t know if she shares this 12 perspective but I think it would be an immense amount of pressure and unknowing on who to 13 vote for coming in a vacuum. I don’t know our future Commissioner Riggs and he doesn’t know 14 any of us so I wouldn’t feel comfortable coming onto this Commission and having to vote when 15 I first step onto it. I think that being here and seeing how we all interact with each other, how 16 we interact with Staff, our positions on things, I think we have a lot of value and a deep 17 understanding of what each of us brings to the table when we make out selections. So, I 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. actually support the outgoing members to do the voting versus the incoming members. I just 1 want to make that different perspective known to you, thank you. 2 Chair Lauing: Ok, Commissioner Waldfogel? 3 Commissioner Waldfogel: Sorry, just one quick comment. I just looked at the codes for other 4 Commissions and so far, everyone that I’ve looked at also includes the phrase at the end of the 5 sentence; until successors are elected unless his terms are, I’m not sure about the is but unless 6 his term is the member of the Commission sooner expires or expires sooner. So, I’m seeing this 7 under Human Relations and Utilities. 8 [Note- Male:] [unintelligible – mic not on] 9 Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah but they all seem to have this mention of term expiration. I 10 mean that might be [uninteligible] in this other language about appointing a replacement but 11 I’m just pointing out the inconsistency in the language. 12 Chair Lauing: Commissioner Summa. 13 Commissioner Summa: Just really briefly since Commissioner Monk referenced my name. I 14 would have been perfectly comfortable to vote when I got on this Board. I was familiar with the 15 members and I’ve never… I mean I’ve never heard of a Board or Commission that doesn’t vote 16 for their own Chair so just for what it’s worth, I support Commissioner Gardias’s concern. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Ok, we’ll get another dip at this one as I said so let’s go onto Fifteen but before I 1 do that, I promised to do a time check, it’s about 8 o’clock. I think we’re making, actually, quite 2 good progress with only possibly two pulls outs right now. So, if we want to press on, we can 3 unless someone wants to (interrupted) 4 Commissioner Alcheck: [unintelligible – mic not on] 5 Chair Lauing: Yeah, we can set another time limit. Do you want to go to like 8:45 and take 6 another time check? Ok, so… I’m sorry, Fifteen. 7 Commissioner Summa: I have nothing on Fifteen or Sixteen. 8 Chair Lauing: Mr. Alcheck? I had a question on Fifteen as long as we’re just going down the line 9 here. I totally agree with consistency, I just was wondering how you picked which number for 10 consistency because there could be an argument that there should be long time frames, not 11 shorter. So, as long as it’s consistent, I’m cool with it but why not make it longer so that people 12 can be notified well in advance? 13 Mr. Lait: Yeah and that’s fair. I mean the… everything else is ten so we chose ten. That’s the 14 traditional noticing period that we have for all of our entitlements. On Number Fifteen, right? 15 Chair Lauing: Yes. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: The reason twelve is problematic for us is because it actually requires everything to be 1 set forward a week earlier for publication than it does for ten. The way the calendar sets up and 2 we (interrupted) 3 Chair Lauing: What about fourteen, does that help? 4 Mr. Lait: Well, it just pushes everything back. I mean if it was (interrupted) 5 Chair Lauing: I see what you’re saying. 6 Mr. Lait: For me, there’s no difference between twelve and fourteen because it’s in the same 7 cycle but we’re so programmed to do everything at ten. We don’t… It takes somebody who’s 8 really paying attention to what they’re working on to know that this one is unique and if you 9 missed the noticing timeline for that, we get this awkward moment where we’ve got to 10 postpone it. 11 Chair Lauing: Ok. 12 Mr. Lait: We don’t really have so much of a dog in the fight for the number, we want them to be 13 consistent. Nine out of ten are ten so we selected ten. 14 Chair Lauing: But it’s harder for you if it goes longer? 15 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: It has other implications in application processing timelines will get dragged out 1 because we’re not… We lose a week of putting things together and a lot of stuff happens in the 2 week leading up to a notice and packet. 3 Chair Lauing: Ok. Sorry, go ahead. 4 Commissioner Waldfogel: Why calendar days and not business days? I mean just in terms of 5 your process. 6 Mr. Lait: Well, this… So… (interrupted) 7 Commissioner Waldfogel: I mean does that get dicey over sometimes a year to (interrupted) 8 Mr. Lait: Over a year? 9 Commissioner Waldfogel: Well, over sometimes a year like over the holidays, does ten calendar 10 days… If somebody walked in on Christmas Eve with an application or if a notice period 11 (interrupted) 12 Mr. Lait: Yeah, so this is all noticing that we do to advise the public about stuff in the paper. 13 Commissioner Waldfogel: Right. 14 Mr. Lait: And so that always gets published on Friday. 15 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: There is a requirement that if the tenth day lands on a holiday, then 1 (interrupted) 2 Chair Lauing: It goes over. 3 Commissioner Alcheck: It’s the following business day. 4 Mr. Lait: For appeals and things of that nature, we [unintelligible] (interrupted) 5 Chair Lauing: Yeah but this is our posting as a City. 6 Mr. Lait: That's right which always happens on Friday and we account for holidays and we have 7 to do some planning ahead for holidays that are especially on Mondays and things like that. So, 8 if we published a ten-day notice in the paper, it’s there for ten days. It gets published on Friday 9 and it’s there the whole next… It’s… The meeting isn’t until the next week and then the week 10 after that so holidays don’t really come into play. 11 [Note-Male:] [unintelligible – mic not on] 12 Mr. Lait: Right. 13 [Note-Male:] [unintelligible – mic not on] 14 Commissioner Alcheck: Do you have to re-publish like if it’s ten days and the paper comes out 15 twice in that period of time? 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: No. 1 Commissioner Alcheck: Do you re-publish? 2 Mr. Lait: No. 3 Chair Lauing: Ok. Did you have anything Commissioner Gardias? 4 Commissioner Gardias: Yeah so, I was looking for the same clarification and so pretty much the 5 ten means that… Is the period because a number must mean something? So, you’re saying that 6 ten is specifically because of the process of publishing on Fridays and then it pretty goes into 7 effect or pretty much it’s business, as usual, the following Monday. 8 Mr. Lait: Yeah so basically that two adds a week to our preparation time; those two days add a 9 week. 10 Commissioner Gardias: Ok, yeah, I’m fine with this. Thank you. 11 Chair Lauing: Ok, back to the other end on Sixteen. Did you already pass on that one? And so, 12 did Mr. Alcheck? I’m good on that one. Sixteen, Commissioner Monk? 13 Commissioner Monk: Can you just give us a little context of where this is coming into play 14 because it’s referring to the Chapter and I don’t know what Chapter it’s referring to since it’s 15 entirely new. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Campbell: Yeah so what we’re trying to do is add in some specific language to state that 1 applications can be withdrawn by the applicant and (interrupted) 2 Commissioner Monk: Sorry, there’s a little bit of a side dialog. Can you just tell me where to 3 look in the current code where you’re planning on putting this and then (interrupted) 4 Ms. Campbell: 1840.190. 5 Commissioner Monk: So, it’s going to follow what? 6 Mr. Lait: It’s just another grab bag area of the code, it’s [unintelligible](interrupted) 7 Commissioner Monk: Oh, ok so where (interrupted) 8 Ms. Campbell: It’s going to follow the set Retail Preservation is… 1840.180 is the section 9 previous. 10 Commissioner Monk: Ok, I don’t have that in my (interrupted) 11 Mr. Lait: You don’t. 12 Commissioner Monk: I might have an outdated printout. I… My… The zoning code that I was 13 provided seems to end at 1840.150, that’s probably why I’m a little lost. 14 Mr. Lait: We’ve adopted a couple things probably since we’ve given that to you, Retail 15 Preservation is one of them. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Monk: Ok so that’s why I don’t know the context of this. 1 Mr. Lait: Yeah, that’s right. So, this is like the general provisions where we don’t have a place to 2 put something, this is the section that it goes. It doesn’t neatly fit into districts or things like 3 that. And again, we just have some applications that sit around for a long time and we don’t 4 really have a mechanism to deal with them. We ask applicant… a lot of people blame the City 5 for not processing applications in a timely manner but I’ll tell you, there’s a whole other set of 6 stories where we have a bunch of applications that we’re waiting for a response from an 7 applicant or architect. It’s amazing how many times architects can change, homeowners change 8 plans and so the whole point of this is to allow us to move applications along without denying 9 them. And an applicant doesn’t get a refund on denials but here we can have their application 10 withdrawn and then people are eligible for a refund at least. 11 Chair Lauing: Was that it? 12 Commissioner Monk: Thank you. 13 Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel? 14 Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, I’m sorry, I’m still on Fifteen and I was just trying to get 15 clarification on this. Is there a reason why you wouldn’t operate on six business days rather 16 than ten calendar days? I mean would that have the same effect? What I’m trying to get at is 17 suppose you sent out… I’m not saying you would ever do this but you could imagine an evil 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Director who sends out applications… Who sends out a notice the Friday before Thanksgiving. 1 And then in the ten-day requirement goes through two or three holidays so you… But you’d still 2 be fully compliant. The end day would still be a business… It would still be a work day; the start 3 day would be a work day but this would go out over a duration that really takes away an 4 opportunity to respond. 5 Mr. Lait: Its… Again, this is a notice requirement with an outgoing notice to… From the City to 6 the paper. This is also to residents? 7 Ms. Campbell: Nope, this is just notice (interrupted) 8 Mr. Lait: This is just a notice to the paper so I… All of our notices are ten-day notice. This one’s 9 an outlying at twelve days. I don’t know how the holidays necessarily factor into that notice. 10 They always get published on Friday. 11 Ms. Campbell: It does include the card as well, sorry. It does include the notice cards. 12 Mr. Lait: Advising of the hearing date. 13 Ms. Campbell: Yes. 14 Mr. Lait: I would say I think business days adds… I mean that’s a real shift of us. If the 15 Commission thought that the ten days was too short and there’s been no indication that it is so 16 far by… Since I’ve been here. People may talk about not getting notices but nobodies talked 17 about the time frame for the notice. But I would polite push back on business days and if there 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. needed to be some movement, I’d rather see the number of days change but I’m not 1 advocating for that. I just think that’s more of a structural change. 2 Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, I’m just looking… I think there’s a legal definition somewhere 3 on what business days or work days are for the City and I’m just trying to track it down in the 4 code; I’m looking for the reference. 5 Commissioner Monk: I think that going back to the twelve days, if that’s a concern of yours, 6 would just elevate any of those calculations if that’s what you’re really worried about. But I 7 think for consistency, you’re looking… Is this… Is what you do in this section going to have an 8 impact on other notice requirements? 9 Ms. Campbell: This existing… So, the ten days requirement is what we use for everything else. 10 We use it for architectural review (interrupted) 11 Commissioner Monk: So, this is the main section so don’t you think that our community would 12 be a little (interrupted) 13 Ms. Campbell: No, it’s the other… So, for all of our other entitlements aside form these ones 14 here for the maps, we use a ten-day period… Calendar day period. So, these are the only ones 15 that are inconsistent with everything else that we do so that’s where the difference is. 16 Chair Lauing: Ok, we’re on Sixteen now. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: I have a quick question about the inactive application provision, that 1 would be on Page 18b. So, I understand that there’s a lot of application that Staff… That no one 2 is waiting on Staff to do anything. That’s really on the… The [unintelligible] is on the applicant to 3 sort of do something. One of my issues here is like for example, let’s say you submitted 4 something at the beginning of this year and then you’ve become aware of the ADU discussion 5 and it makes you want to wait so that you can sort of determine how the ADU would shake out. 6 Considering how long it took for us to sort of… We haven’t even had out study session yet to 7 sort of understand it. I was at a meeting a couple weeks ago that Director Gitelman hosted 8 where she explained how the ADU is working in our City and I noticed a lot of people felt like it 9 was very informative. I guess my point is that to me is like the classic example of somebody 10 goes in but then they are like oh, interesting and my comments that I got back reflected issues 11 but this ordinance might change. Their decision to be inactive for a certain amount of time 12 while they reevaluate the financial implications and maybe the law changing. I wonder if really 13 six months should just… My point is that six months seem very short considering that most 14 applications from the beginning of submission to the conclusion are not typically six-month 15 process; like you submit and if you’re in a single-family review… I mean a two-story IR review, 16 you’re unlikely to get your final probably within six months. It’s probably going to be a little 17 longer than that so (interrupted) 18 Chair Lauing: Jonathan. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: Just to clarify, we’re talking about no activity in six months. We know that 1 applications could take six months, eight months to process. We’re saying we’re 2 [unintelligible]… We’re getting no feedback from the applicant team for six months. 3 Commissioner Alcheck: So would like an email saying we’re going to wait until your ADU 4 discussion is complete to respond to the comments you’ve made which could theoretically take 5 eight months. Would that suffice as activity? I guess that’s what I’m trying to say. I understand 6 you say we need to see your architectural plan reflect the following changes. Those changes 7 require someone to sit down with their architect and make some compromises but they may be 8 navigating other issues and financial questions and six months just seem short. That’s what I am 9 saying. 10 Mr. Lait: So, the whole point about this is to connect with the applicant, make sure their still 11 connected and engaged in the project. This doesn’t mandate the Director to withdraw the 12 application, it simply states that the Director shall have the authority. We get cases where an 13 applicant will say we’re going to have revised plans to you in six weeks. Two months pass, we’re 14 going to have revised plans in a month. Fine (interrupted) 15 Commissioner Alcheck: My question is you have a term here called adequately respond and 16 the question is would (interrupted) 17 Mr. Lait: The scenario that you just described may qualify for that. I mean if there’s a policy 18 issue. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: That’s my point, sort of figuring out would it qualify and (interrupted) 1 Mr. Lait: It’s subject… Yeah, the Director would have that authority to make that 2 determination. I mean part of this is as an application, is it right for processing? There’s a lot of 3 expectation on Staff to process applications within a certain time frame. We want to also make 4 sure that there’s an expectation of that when you file an application, that it’s being processed 5 and that we’re getting that same response time so that we can provide that service to you. So… 6 But if there’s a policy… 7 Commissioner Alcheck: I don’t… now look, I don’t know that I necessarily think they are linked. 8 We’re in the habit of processing applications because we run a Development Center that takes 9 applications and we make it… We’ve sort of obligated ourselves to respond quickly but I don’t 10 know why an applicant is… I don’t know why the… I don’t know why our Building Department 11 would have… Would be concerned whether an applicant was working through the issues they 12 have to work through in a timely way. It’s not like if you want to build, you have to build quick. 13 Mr. Lait: So, I don’t disagree with that statement. That’s exactly right and if that’s the scenario, 14 then there’s no issue. We’re talking about inactivity, nothing, no feedback. 15 Commissioner Alcheck: Well, adequate. 16 Mr. Lait: That’s right. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: We’re talking about adequate responses so I’m just saying, my point is 1 that that’s where I’m struggling with this. I don’t know maybe the time frame should be 2 extended based on our experience with the ADU. That’s really the only reason I mentioned it 3 because I feel like there are people who are in the marketplace right now who have put their 4 plan on hold because they are still trying to figure out if the ADU changes are affecting them. 5 Chair Lauing: Commissioner Monk? 6 Commissioner Monk: To follow up with what Commissioner Alcheck was stating, perhaps we 7 would consider putting in a definition of inactivity. Just something to think about. 8 Commissioner Alcheck: It is defined. It’s the question of what is adequate? 9 Commissioner Monk: Or rather a definition of adequate. Just something to consider and I 10 would just also add that the way it’s written, the first sentence, in and of itself is quite extreme 11 if you just read it by itself. It looks like now after you read that sentence, then there’s a notice 12 that they may or may not provide. I’d like to see baked into that first sentence that some sort… 13 I think it would be fair that they would be obligated to notify the applicant because the way 14 that its written looks pretty draconian. And then just maybe clean up the second sentence 15 afterward to support that. That would just be my feedback on that content. 16 Chair Lauing: Ok, Commissioner Waldfogel. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Waldfogel: Thanks. Just some clarification on the process here so let’s say that 1 an applicant submits… Let’s say if somebody submits an application for development, do we 2 freeze the codes that apply to that application on the day that first application is submitted? I 3 mean I’m just trying to understand a scenario… What the scenarios are for something sitting in 4 the process for a long period of time; potentially dormmate. 5 Mr. Lait: So, I think it depends on the application, for one. Most of our applications would be 6 subject to the codes that are in place at the time that permits are issued. Though if you’re 7 deemed complete… Well, I guess… Yeah, once your… Ok. 8 Mr. Yang: So, typically pending applications are subject to any new changes in the law. Often 9 when we do change the law, we exempt pending applications but there’s no obligation to do 10 that. 11 Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok, so there’s no freeze. There’s no… you don’t get any entitlement 12 to the current law by submitting an application on… On a date certain, is that correct? 13 Mr. Yang: As a general matter, no, unless there’s some specific provision that says that there is 14 such a freeze but as a general matter, no. 15 Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok, let me just ponder that for a second but thank you. 16 Commissioner Alcheck: I do have a quick question, is there… I’m vaguely remembering that 17 there’s a rule that allows the Building Department or maybe the Director to refuse applications 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. if another application was submitted within a certain period of time. Is that… Is there… So, if 1 someone’s application was withdrawn, they could be excluded from re-submitting an 2 application? 3 Mr. Lait: So, this wouldn’t apply to that scenario. There is something where after… the City 4 could take an action where it would freeze the filing of a similar application that was denied 5 within twelve months. This has nothing to do with that provision that a withdrawn application 6 doesn’t trigger that. And then also, just to be clear, we’re not talking about Building Permits. 7 We’re talking about planning entitlements, these are AR… not a Building Permit. Architectural 8 Review Applications, individual review applications, Conditional Use Permits, these are the pre-9 planning process, not the Building Permit. 10 Chair Lauing: Ok. Commissioner Waldfogel, are you ok on this one? 11 Commissioner Waldfogel: I’m just still trying to work through some scenarios in my head 12 because it seems like it’s prudent if you know the rules are changing, a prudent course of action 13 is to try to get a complete application in as quickly as possible to… That you may even… You 14 may choose to amend later. But I’m just trying to understand the process and can do to protect 15 themselves from code changes because you know, design processes take time so what’s the… 16 What is a prudent person… What would a prudent person do and how does that play into this 17 timeline? 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Yang: So, typically the general rule is that you only obtain a right to the rules as they exist to 1 freeze them in place. If you have an improved… Sorry, if you have an approved entitlement so 2 you’ve made your application, it’s gone through the process, it’s been approved and you’ve 3 made a substantial expenditure in reliance on the entitlement. That’s the point in which the 4 rules freeze so just filing an application, complete or not, really, for the most part, does 5 nothing. 6 Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok, so substantial… I’m sorry, what was the word you used? 7 Substantial (interrupted) 8 Mr. Yang: Expenditure and reliance on that approval. 9 Commissioner Waldfogel: And what about substantial expenditure and reliance in a design 10 process on a rule set? That’s not something that [unintelligible](interrupted) 11 Mr. Yang: If there’s no approval, then you’re not relying on anything. 12 Commissioner Waldfogel: Ok, that may be a different topic but I think that is on the earlier 13 point that is something that maybe we need to… That bears on what the Lundy’s were 14 discussing and something that we may need to explore. Because what that does is it 15 discourages the design because it creates huge risks for taking the time to do go design. 16 Chair Lauing: Ok, one final comment from Commissioner Alcheck. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, I know I… Now look, I appreciate that we’re eager to wrap this 1 quickly but the whole point here is to figure out whether or not these issues are more complex. 2 And so, I would just ask this question too or this is for the group to think through. What extent 3 does this… How could financial hardship… how could a… I don’t know a death that involved in 4 the applicant ownership group or something… I’m trying to think through the scenarios where 5 somebody is like you know, I can’t work on this. And maybe they are not even really the… I 6 don’t know. The time frame seems very short, that’s my main issue with this. I think that the 7 idea is correct, I just think the time period is short and I wonder if there’s any consensus there. 8 Mr. Lait: So, can I just offer… So, nothing about this prevents the Director from making a 9 decision on a project that’s been inactive. We can deny an application that’s been sitting 10 around for three months, four months, if we’re not getting what we think is enough traction on 11 the application to move it forward. What this is doing is it’s creating… It’s codifying a process, 12 memorializing this withdrawal procedure and it gives an applicant an opportunity to receive 13 money back. You’re not getting money back if we make an action on the application. If we deny 14 the application because we don’t have enough information to process the application, we’re… 15 And we deny it, you got to pay your new fees and all that kind of stuff. If you’ve paid fees and 16 you’ve for whatever reason, it stalled out and you’re not going to get to it for a while, maybe 17 this application isn’t right for processing. You withdraw the application, you recoup your fees 18 that you’re able to recoup and you come back and you file when you are ready to file. It also 19 doesn’t preclude the Director from having the thoughtful conversation that you are talking 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. about which is when the circumstance comes up and it’s reasonable to say yeah, you’re right. 1 This… we’ll give this one more time to move… Take the time. If there was a death in the family 2 and we’ve had that. We’ve actually had those kinds of scenarios come up and we… Where not 3 in this to be difficult, we’re trying to create a process that transparent and everybody 4 understands the rules because right now we’re just kind of winging it. 5 Commissioner Alcheck: I think what you’re trying to do is encourage… You’re trying to create a 6 process by which your encouraging applicants to be responsive. I understand that I actually 7 think it’s a smart idea. I just am of the opinion that six months is a very short time frame, that’s 8 all. I think… That’s all I have to say. 9 Chair Lauing: Ok. 10 Commissioner Monk: I don’t know about the six months but just in how it’s written, I would 11 just have you look at it again through the lens of the applicant and determine whether or not 12 you’re having it be too subjective on the Director’s side because it looks pretty one-sided. 13 Mr. Lait: Yeah, we can certainly look at how we’ve phrased it. 14 Commissioner Monk: Yeah and even at the end of it because under inactivity, that definition is 15 saying if the Director deems they haven’t adequately responded. So, even if they do respond if 16 the Director says oh, well you responded but it wasn’t adequate therefore I’m denying you. It 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. just gives a lot of power to the Director and I just would like to see a little bit more balanced if 1 possible. 2 Then going back to Section A, you might want to consider adding in a time period. You’ve 3 mentioned that the application… That by providing written notification to the Director but you 4 don’t give any indication about when so you might want to consider what would work on your 5 end on the time period. If they need to give twenty-four hours or week or whatever would be 6 best for Staff. 7 Commissioner Alcheck: A follow up question, is there a process… If someone felt that they have 8 been withdrawn in a… If an applicant felt that they had been sort of withdrawn and disagreed 9 with this sentiment of the Director that their response wasn’t aliquant. Is there a process by 10 which they could appeal? 11 Mr. Lait: So, there’s no appeal of a withdrawal, you can file a new application. 12 Commissioner Alcheck: No, I mean is there a process by which they could appeal the Director’s 13 determination (interrupted) 14 Mr. Lait: To withdraw an application? 15 Commissioner Alcheck: That their response wasn’t adequate? 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: No but I would say this. If it was… If you are an applicant, I don’t think we’re going to 1 go through the process of withdrawing it. We just may make a decision on it, I mean you 2 understand what I’m saying? It’s (interrupted) 3 Commissioner Alcheck: I’m actually just trying to understand how what oversite there is. 4 Mr. Lait: Yeah, this isn’t… I mean clearly there’s intended to give broad authority to the 5 Director to make this decision, that’s clear. And it is with the intent to make sure that 6 applications are being processed in an efficient manner both on our end but also on the 7 applicant end. It creates a process for withdraws and application refunds without having to 8 make a decision. None of this precludes the City from making a decision on an application. 9 There’s no added process, there are no added timelines, there are no added hurdles for an 10 applicant. It sets up a transparent process for dialog and we’ll work on the language to make 11 sure that it reads more balanced and less draconian as I heard. But this is how organizations… 12 The fact that we don’t have something like this in our code is a bit surprising frankly, on how 13 you process applications that have been stale. 14 Commissioner Monk: I think it’s necessary but also maybe consider you’re calling it application 15 withdrawal so maybe also consider in the title the additional powers that you’re looking to give 16 to the Director. So, at least they are aware that application withdrawal and results of inactivity 17 in six months or just something along those lines so that it alerts the applicant that there’s this 18 authority that they can lose their application within a period if they are not active. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Ms. Campbell: I just want to add too, just coming from a planner’s perspective. We would very 1 diligently to engage with our applicants all the time. We never just say oh, I haven’t heard from 2 you in a month. We email, we call, we try to engage and we’ll hear back from them all the time 3 and we try our best to work with them to accommodate their issues and their concerns. We… 4 closing out an application is not something that we do all the time. It actually doesn’t happen 5 very often at all but this is just putting something in the code that actually gives us a process… A 6 legitimate process. 7 Chair Lauing: Ok, I have new lights popping up here and ok. Mr. Gardias? 8 Commissioner Gardias: Sure, yes, thank you so I’m fine with the language. I think it’s very 9 reasonable and clarifies the process. Maybe the wording could be a little bit polished just so 10 applicants don’t feel pressed but you know, it’s logical. Six months is a reasonable period if 11 there’s no activity within this period of time and then there’s also a mechanism to interact 12 between the Director… It says the Director shall and then just it’s a [unintelligible] process upon 13 the Director to follow up with applicants whose applications are inactive for a period of time. 14 So, I don’t find anything wrong with this process, I support this and hope we can move on. 15 Thank you. 16 Chair Lauing: Ok. Are you done? 17 Commissioner Monk: I just want to say that I absolutely support this and Commissioner 18 Alcheck and I are both attorneys so we’re looking at this through the lens of what’s the best 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. way of drafting. And we’re not… At least I’m not passing judgment on any capacity so I hope it’s 1 not interpreted that way. I’m just trying to be helpful. 2 Mr. Lait: And please, I mean absolutely, that’s why we are here. It’s the spirit of this 3 conversation and the back and forth and please don’t construe any excitement, particularly on 4 my end, about the topic. It’s just something that we’re… We’re passionate about the work that 5 we do and we’re presenting here. It’s not like we’re trying to be difficult. 6 Chair Lauing: Ok, thanks. Are we ready for a juicy one now? Are we ready for leaf blowers? 7 Commissioner Gardias: That was a very interesting statement by the way. I look forward to 8 going back to these meeting minutes. 9 Chair Lauing: So, I’m getting a question now from Commission Alcheck is this one we want to 10 pull? I (interrupted) 11 Commissioner Alcheck: I guess I would say I’m not suggesting pull but maybe at the follow-up 12 meeting we could see language that reflects the changes that we’re suggesting. 13 Chair Lauing: Isn’t that intent? You’re going to show us kind of any revised languages before it 14 goes to Council? 15 Mr. Lait: Yeah, we’ll wait to see what the disposition is here but we’re definitely going to do 16 some different language. I mean we’re hearing very clearly that we need to polish this up and 17 make it a little more… 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Lawyerly. 1 Mr. Lait: Well and you know we have our lawyers also looking at it too but we get the 2 sentiment. I mean that’s what we’ll do. 3 Chair Lauing: Right, let’s jump right into leaf blowers. I’m sure this will be completely non-4 controversial. 5 Commissioner Summa: Okey-dokey. So, you already answered one of my questions that we’re 6 not… that we don’t have jurisdiction over the school district. So, some observations I have is 7 that since we’ve determined that there’s technology available besides… That are not internal 8 combustion engine leaf blowers. Why wouldn’t the City use them as well? 9 Mr. Lait: So, this ordinance… So, I’m not… We don’t have a position on that right now. I mean 10 that’s not what we studied. That’s not what we were looking at in this particular ordinance. 11 There is a policy conversation that probably should take place about the City’s use of leaf 12 blowers. And… But that is something that has broader implications across multiple departments 13 and City operations and fiscal considerations. We weren’t interested in making any changes to 14 any existing City procedures. What we are trying to do is address a consistent refrain that we 15 get from the community and confusion about these… And we get these requests that come in 16 and they’ll say hey, this building just down the street… This commercial building… Has got all 17 these… They're using their gas-powered leaf blowers. I thought they were banned and what 18 we’re trying to do is in the same vain that the gas-powered leaf blowers were implemented in 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the first place in the residential districts, we’re particularly interested in these transition areas 1 where people are… they are not understanding why we can’t enforce it in the commercial area 2 but we enforce it… We have regulations to enforce in the residential area. And So, I… I’m not… 3 Your topic Commissioner Summa is, I think a broader policy conversation that was beyond 4 where we wanted to go on this particular issue. 5 Commissioner Summa: Ok but we are prohibiting now in commercial areas with this? 6 Mr. Lait: That’s the proposal. 7 Commissioner Summa: And our… currently, the ordinance allows certain… Based on how 8 powerful and loud they are certain gas leaf blowers, will those still be allowed? 9 Ms. Campbell: The gas leaf blowers are not allowed a period in residential districts. 10 Commissioner Summa: Ok So… Ok, I guess I would just say that it looks a little funny to impose 11 something on everybody else in the City, including huge properties in the Research Park with 12 very big amounts of areas they might like to manicure and not ask the City to do it. So, I think 13 we should probably consider that. 14 Mr. Lait: Yeah, I… You know obviously we’ll hear from the rest of the Commission about that 15 but I think that’s a comment that we’d absolutely include in the Staff report to Council about 16 what is the City’s disposition on this issue and should we be studying it further? 17 Commissioner Summa: Ok. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Commissioner Alcheck. 1 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah so, I’m going to take a different position here but before I do that, 2 this is a good example of like why does the City Staff feel that they are in a position to articulate 3 what should or should not be allowed and why aren’t the community participating more in a 4 process to determine what they want? This is a perfect example of my issue with you advancing 5 the ordinance as written with comments of ours on the side. In theory, this is something we 6 should discuss and determine if we want. 7 Now I will make my case really quickly, I think it’s ludicrous to require commercial property 8 owners in the City to use leaf blowers. I believe that one of the reasons why the regulations 9 that exist currently aren’t well enforced, one of the many reasons, is because neighbors don’t 10 really want to call in enforcement on other neighbors. And when neighbors talk to their 11 landscapers about this, they probably hear from the landscapers that non-gas-powered leaf 12 blowers are pretty ineffective. However, for the moment I will not make that argument but I 13 will suggest to you that the notion that… Take the property on the corner of Page Mill and El 14 Camino that houses the movie theater. I don’t know the name of that property. 15 [Note-Female:] Palo Alto Square. 16 Commissioner Alcheck: Palo Alto Square. The notion that someone would drag an extension 17 cord from corner to corner on that property is so… And their little parking lot is so ridiculous to 18 maintain the property. I want to jump onto the back of what Commissioner Summa said which 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. is the notion that individuals around the corner from where Commissioner Gardias lives on… 1 across the street from Rinconada, can’t use a blower but the Staff of Palo Alto can use a blower 2 for 2 1/2-hours at Rinconada Park is also problematic. If the City… And I believe the City if they 3 did investigate this issue, they would come back and say it is literally economically infeasible for 4 us not to use blowers, that would be the response. If the City did look into it, they would get 5 feedback from their landscaping services that what do you mean? How can we possibly 6 maintain all of our property without the flexibility of non-corded blowers? So, that’s what the 7 City would say and we would exempt them because we don’t want to ensure the extra cost or 8 the inefficacy that would surround hand raking or potentially running around with an extension 9 cord. So, to me in perfect world neighbors who have real problems with this, maybe their 10 neighbors would respect them and adhere to the policy that we have in place for the R-1 but to 11 require for example our local schools that [unintelligible] private or our major property owners 12 that have huge parking lots, Stanford Research Park is a perfect example, from not being able to 13 effectively do this, seems like a problem. 14 And here’s again, I’ll restate my first point, we didn’t really notice the community that we were 15 going to take on. It’s kind of a big… I would argue a big change so nobody is here from the 16 commercial community to sort of understand this because if you read the notice in the paper, 17 we were doing an annual exercise in clarifying policies and revising and correcting little nuance 18 issues. And so, again, I don’t know why this… The Planning Department or where ever this came 19 from has a dog in this fight, aside from the fact that they may get some or to many complaints 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. from a resident. But the notion that we would discuss this without more input seems very 1 foolish and I believe that the reason why they’re excluding the City from the discussion is 2 because the answer is… I’m not suggesting that they are hiding the answer but I’m suggesting 3 that the answer is very likely to be that it would be very infeasible economically. So, that’s 4 where I stand on this one. Pull, pull it. 5 Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel. 6 Commissioner Waldfogel: Thanks, yeah, this is an interesting one. I agree with some of the 7 points that Commissioner Alcheck just made but what I point out is that the purpose of this 8 seems to be around high noise. I mean you could imagine three purposes around leaf blower 9 bans, one being the noise, the second on being dust, and the third one being fumes and carbon 10 footprint. And we generally have a requirement on noise, 65 DBA, in… what is this? 9.10.060f-1, 11 there’s a 65 DBA noise requirement that’s across the board for combustion or electric leaf 12 blowers and some compliance process. I’m not sure that’s well enforced. I looked at some 13 other jurisdictions, I think Burlingame publishes a list of approved products that meet that 65 14 DBA standard and it might be that just across the board. What we should be focusing on are the 15 noise levels. You know basically requiring that everybody meet the 65 DBA standard or some 16 other standard and that would be a fair approach. I could imagine over time battery powered 17 leaf blowers may evolve to a point where they work on commercial scale. I don’t know but this 18 just seems like it’s trying to capture something that may be a problem but I’m just not sure 19 we’re addressing it correctly tonight. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Commissioner Gardias, do you have a questions or comments? 1 Commissioner Gardias: Sure, thank you. So, I have a subtly different perspective. So first of all, I 2 don’t understand, you told me why very much the City is excluded from these operations but I 3 just… Looking how further our government operates, for example on the government buildings. 4 Where pretty much it takes leadership on converting government buildings to LEED certifiable 5 buildings and to allow the rest of the world just to catch up as they may economically and 6 giving thirty percent of GDP or large number or twenty being a government expenditure. I think 7 that the City should take the lead pretty much on proposing the internal processes before the 8 rest of the City is subject to this legislation. So, I disagree totally that the City should be excused 9 from this ordinance but then, of course, there’s a larger problem with enforcement and we 10 know this. I totally… It’s not enforced in my neighborhood at least, everybody is using gas-11 powered blowers. 12 By the way, there are leaf blowers that are battery operated these days and then of course 13 contractors, they have the cord that can span for hundreds of yards away from the truck 14 because they have a battery on the truck. And then pretty much they pull this cord far away so 15 they can service large areas, even the parking in front of the theater square. But then there’s a 16 technology that allows them to do this… To use the power… Battery powered blowers 17 remotely. So, I don’t believe that from the technology perspective there’s any use, my request 18 is rather just to have the City take leadership on enforcing its own policy as opposed to before it 19 proposes any policies on the rest of the town. Thank you. 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Yeah so, I would make a couple comments here but the main one is this one 1 might have enough consensus to pull it now and just say that the Commission doesn’t support 2 it. Based on the consistency issue that any number of these other things we’re trying to get in 3 place, a number of days and so on. If we have commercial banned, homeowners banned, and 4 City can do whatever they want, that goes beyond a problem of just optics. There is just no 5 consistency with that so I think we can get there. 6 With respect to enforcement, its kind of the same thing. I mean it seems to me that there are 7 ways that you could make sure that some Deputy gives out two tickets a day to gardeners, the 8 word starts to spread that you’re not supposed to use these. That might help a little bit but 9 that’s going to be inconsistent as well because the factory next door to the house can use it. So 10 similar to what Commissioner Alcheck said if we were going to consider this I think the… we 11 would like to have the City come up with what would they do and then notice it so there can be 12 some comment on it. I think without that I’m not hearing any votes in place of that. Yeah, 13 Commissioner Alcheck? 14 Commissioner Alcheck: I just want to understand because I’m not saying I don’t see… I’m not 15 suggesting that I personal… I mean I don’t love this personally but I’m not suggesting in this 16 medium that my personal opinion about the validity of electric versus gas should control. What 17 I’m suggesting and I just want to clarify, is that we should have a conversation outside of the 18 annual code clean up where we discuss this. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: I got it but what I’m suggesting is we might be able to go further now which is to 1 say that we (interrupted) 2 Commissioner Alcheck: No, see this is my problem, I just want to clarify. Asher… Commissioner 3 Waldfogel’s comments are actually very interesting. He just came up with a very interesting 4 way to approach it but I don’t believe that this type of decision should be made on the fly 5 where one Commissioner says oh, I know there’s electric out there and other Commissioner 6 says well, why don’t we… The real way that we should approach these decisions is by noticing 7 the community and having a discussion. 8 Chair Lauing: Right, I’m not disagreeing with you so it’s good we’re having this conversation. 9 What I’m saying is that there isn’t enough information here to even have a conversation on it 10 tonight so what I’m suggesting is we have to make a non-decision meaning we cannot support 11 what’s being done. 12 Commissioner Alcheck: I just wanted… I just hope that our communication to Council isn’t 13 reflective that we disagreed with the position. It’s that we felt that the position shouldn’t be 14 incorporated into the ordinance without further review. 15 Chair Lauing: Yeah. 16 Commissioner Alcheck: Ok, alright. 17 Chair Lauing: And again, my understanding… 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: Some of us might agree that it should be a restriction. 1 Chair Lauing: Yeah so… But my understanding again, we’re reiterating, is that anything that 2 goes to Council is going to very specifically itemize and iterate what our objections were to one 3 of these twenty-three policies. 4 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah but it’s not… I just want to be clear. I’m not objecting to the policy, 5 I’m objecting to the process. The process should involve community outreach and discussion. 6 We should have a hearing where we talk about whether or not we want this new policy 7 initiative so I’m not objecting to… In this particular instance, I’m not objecting to the use of… To 8 the restriction that leaf blowers not be used on commercial property even though I personally 9 feel they probably shouldn’t. I’m objecting that we’re including this new policy as if we’re 10 annually improving our ordinance without… Nobody is here. 11 Chair Lauing: Right, no, no, that’s what I’m saying. 12 Commissioner Alcheck: That’s my point. It’s not… and that’s why I find that this notion that the 13 Staff is going to articulate that we took issue with… It’s not that. It’s why aren’t you… Why does 14 Staff believe these are minor enough to not include a discussion with the community? This is 15 my point. 16 Chair Lauing: I think we get the point. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: We can’t possibly know how involved this is without having a 1 conversation. 2 Chair Lauing: I think we got that point. Commissioner Summa. 3 Commissioner Summa: I did want to make a few clarifying comments. I really appreciate in 4 general that Staff brought this forward because I think gas-powered leaf blowers are awful 5 personally and they get complaints all the time. If you look on [Note - Building I] on the 6 enforcement map, it’s one of the most common code enforcement complaints. 7 I also would like to state that there are battery driven ones, I think Commissioner Gardias 8 mentioned it. One of the worries that I have frankly is the cost of replacing the equipment will 9 go to the people… In most cases most financially capable of … Incapable of not having it hurt 10 them, meaning small gardening firms. So, I think some consideration should be given to that 11 also because maybe the building owner should be required to provide the equipment. There’s… 12 we have to think about that at least and how that might affect a lot of people. 13 And also, I think we should examine the City’s policy of where we use leaf blowers. Leaf blowers 14 are generally regarded to be very bad for the environment because they blow away the topsoil 15 so I think maybe… I’m not saying I think the City does it wrong but it would be good to have a 16 conversation about the policy about leaf blower use in City-owned properties, especially parks. 17 So… but I think there’s enough concern about this that we should take it off. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Yeah, what I was suggesting is that we can take it off because of all of the 1 information so right now Seventeen is off. Any other comments on Seventeen? 2 Commissioner Monk: Yeah, I had a question and perhaps it’s been answered but in the policy 3 behind bringing this tonight, you’re talking about extending this existing regulation to 4 commercial and that’s all you state. But then when we look at it, you add a whole new Section 5 Three about this internal combustion engine and all these things. How does that comport with 6 the beginning of this code section that you did not include in our packet that says, the DBA 7 levels and things like that in Item Number One? So, it is contradictory within its own section? 8 Under F you gave us a language for Number Two and Number Three but Number One talks 9 about… No one else here can look at it because it wasn’t provided. I’m looking online at our 10 code section under leaf blowers. Again, this was just pulled out of… This was part of the code. 11 The code says that no person shall operate a leaf blower which does not have the manufactures 12 label designating a 65 DBA when measured at a distance of 50-feet American Standards, things 13 like that. That’s how this provision starts so how does that comport with this new internal 14 combustion engine language that you’re adding? 15 Mr. Lait: Yeah, we can… We’ve heard a lot of comments on this one. Let us talk a look at that 16 one as well and we can report back to the Commission on this item when we come back. I don’t 17 have the code section in front of me right now. 18 Commissioner Monk: Ok. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Ok so Seventeen is off right now. Moving to Eighteen, trash enclosures in CD. 1 Since there was a lot of discussion about that, Jonathan do you want to kind of very briefly 2 reframe that? Number Eighteen on what we’re trying to capture here. 3 Commissioner Alcheck: Oh, yeah, I’ll let Clare actually summarize the trash enclosure in the CD 4 district. 5 Ms. Campbell: Ok so let me just bring up the slide. 6 Chair Lauing: This is probably going to be the last one before we do the time check. I mean it is 7 the last one before the time check and it may be the last one we do period. 8 Ms. Campbell: So currently in our definitions in the gross floor area for commercial and multi-9 family exemptions, there is this existing language that’s referenced in that first paragraph and 10 it’s listed in our attached ordinance. I can find that page for you which is… so it’s on Packet Page 11 34 and that’s the draft ordinance. So, there was existing language that has some exemptions for 12 minor additions when its related to code compliance. So, what we’re trying to do is take away 13 the restriction of the CD districts so that we can also have this Director… At the Director’s 14 discretion to have this additional exemption provided for projects in the downtown. And it’s 15 just that it’s come up where many sites are maybe built up with the floor area but there is still 16 available lot coverage but because trash enclosures would count toward your floor area, there’s 17 no way to accommodate these trash enclosures without going through a complicated variance 18 process or some type of exception process. So, what we’re trying to do is have a provision that 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. would apply not just everywhere but… I mean not to just everywhere other the CD but include 1 the CD as well and have the provisions that are a limited amount of floor area could be made 2 available to be compliant with our code requirements for a covered and enclosed trash area. 3 Chair Lauing: Ok. Let’s start with Commissioner Summa. 4 Commissioner Summa: Ok and thank you to Staff because I sent in a lot of questions about this 5 because in my… I had two main concerns about this and one is that if… That downtown, 6 obviously it's tight. Most… Many of the parcels are all the way built out to the line so that map 7 was interesting to me because a lot of the areas that are yellow are actually, probably a 8 required garden. I know there’s on behind a big residential building on Lytton or they might be 9 parking; there are other reasons that couldn’t be used. Downtown is pretty tight and they 10 can’t… They may have area left in the parcel but it might already have parking spots on it and 11 they can’t get rid of those. So… but where… So, what the code really requires… you directed me 12 to 16… oh, whatever it was, 16 something b10 but that is actually for new buildings. So, it's for 13 new buildings and it also says covered area for a dumpster, it doesn’t say covered and enclosed. 14 So, I’m wondering if we… If there are dumpsters in the CD zone that are outside but are… can’t 15 they just be covered? Do they have to be enclosed also? So, I have a question about covered 16 versus covered and enclosed. 17 Ms. Campbell: Ok so let me just address that right now. So as part of our architectural review 18 when we have things that are placed out in the public view, we always want them to be 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. screened. So, I think from the planning perspective, we’re looking for that enclosure but the 1 Public Works Department is looking for that cover so then it ends up being a covered and 2 enclosed facility to screen the refuse area. 3 Commissioner Summa: Ok so you added that language and then the amendment, the area that 4 your planning on amending formally didn’t not exempt trash. It exempted those in special 5 environmental areas and what not. So now you want to amend… You want to exempt trash 6 rooms in basically all residential zones and large multi-family zones. Which is a change not to 7 CD, it’s actually a bigger change to all of the other zones. 8 Ms. Campbell: I was reviewing this with Sandy the City Attorney and we… In this… In the 9 paragraph subsection four, it refers to minor additions of floor area for the purposes of 10 resource conservation or code compliance. So, there is this resource conservation section that 11 we think could definitely be applied to recycling, composting and the related trash areas. So, 12 we did see a connection there and also with just compliance with environmental health. So, the 13 pollution prevention to me is consistent with that goal of compliance with environmental 14 health. 15 Commissioner Summa: And I’ll leave it at there for now. 16 Commissioner Alcheck: I have no comment on this. 17 Chair Lauing: Commissioner Waldfogel. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah just one area, I mean directionally I understand this. I think it’s a 1 good thing. I’d like some clarification on the criteria… The areas designed for resource 2 conservation and other energy facilities… Resources conservation and energy facilities, there’s a 3 cross-reference to code 1842120 which that code allows up to 3,000-square feet for code 4 generation and energy recovery… Energy conservation… Resource conservation energy 5 facilities. So, I’d just like some clarification on what the intent is on including that language into 6 this piece of code and if there was no intent, it was just there, that’s fine? I think it makes sense 7 in other districts but from the CD district, I’m trying to understand how and where it would 8 make sense. 9 Ms. Campbell: So, I’m just going to clarify so you’re talking about subsection A? 10 Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, subsection A. 11 Ms. Campbell: So, that’s an existing language. 12 Commissioner Waldfogel: Right but we’ve never included that in the CD district before so how 13 would that make sense in the CD district? 14 Ms. Campbell: I’m not too sure, I would have to kind of think that through. 15 Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, I mean this is a thing that happens with kind of a… with code 16 changes is that the cross-references get… Can get interesting. 17 Chair Lauing: Ok, Commissioner Gardias, did you have anything? 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Gardias: Let’s see if they can answer this. I’ll wait for my (interrupted) 1 Commissioner Waldfogel: You’re curious too? 2 Commissioner Gardias: Time, yes. 3 Commissioner Waldfogel: We stumped them. 4 Commissioner Gardias: Yeah, that was a good point. 5 Commissioner Waldfogel: As long as we’re all confused together, that’s all I can ask for. 6 Mr. Lait: It’s a little bit late and I think we’re probably trending to a place where we’re going to 7 be coming back for another meeting. 8 Chair Lauing: We are. 9 Mr. Lait: So, rather than just give you an off the cuff response, we’ll research it a little bit more 10 and come back. 11 Commissioner Gardias: Ok, so now it’s my questions I guess. What does this 500-square foot 12 stand for? That’s the area that can be granted up to the ceiling of that area that can be granted 13 by the Director’s permission. It’s a large enclosure so I want to understand what does this… 14 how has this… How was this calculated? B. 15 Mr. Lait: Yeah so that’s… so that’s not text we’re changing, that’s just… That’s been there. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Gardias: No, I understand but then (interrupted) 1 Mr. Lait: So presumably they got… I mean they just had to set a cap and it looks like they set a 2 cap at 500-square feet, not to exceed. 3 Commissioner Gardias: Ok, thank you. 4 Chair Lauing: Is that it? Commissioner Gardias? 5 Commissioner Gardias: For now, yes, thank you. 6 Commissioner Waldfogel: I’ll just point out in that section that Commissioner Gardias was just 7 referencing, Section B, it also references hazard mat storage facilities which I would hope that 8 the CD districts have some other restrictions on haz. mat storage. That we’re not authorizing 9 haz. Mat storage behind buildings in the CD district. 10 Chair Lauing: Ok so I would like to suggest that we suspend the discussion. 11 Mr. Lait: So, just on that last point so we’re not freaking out this stuff. What we’re talking 12 about are just exemptions… What qualifies as floor area and what doesn’t? That doesn’t change 13 any regulations in place about where haz. mat material is located or not. We’re just saying what 14 is exempted in floor area and the main purpose of this one is we’re trying to align the City’s 15 pollution prevention along with some constraints that we’re seeing with the code. And do 16 things have to be enclosed, maybe not. Do they just need to be covered? These are the things 17 that we can talk about at the next time that we come together. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Ok so I’m going to suggest that we… Although we’re only four items from the end, 1 I’m going to suggest that we suspend this right now given agenda Items Three and Four. And if 2 we’re at lightning speed through those two, then we can come back to this and finish. 3 Otherwise, we’ll pick it up in our December meeting. 4 Commissioner Summa: Are we going to pull the last one? 5 Chair Lauing: Oh, I’m sorry and I think the three that I have… Thank you. I was going to 6 summarize this, the three that we have listed as potential pulls are Six and Seven together, 7 Twelve and Seventeen but I didn’t have this one as a pull that you just discussed. 8 Mr. Lait: I didn’t have Twelve as a pull. I thought that was just a clarification and an add 9 reference to the Retail Preservation Ordinance. 10 Commissioner Alcheck: [unintelligible – mic not on] 11 Chair Lauing: I had it as a pull so what is the view? Michael? 12 Commissioner Alcheck: I was just… My concern with this is that there’s a community of parcel 13 owners that might be impacted and I was uncomfortable with (interrupted) 14 Commissioner Monk: It was a pull because they’re striking out the language. I think you’re right 15 that it was a pull. 16 Chair Lauing: So, we (interrupted) 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: I had a concern that it just felt like there wasn’t enough interaction 1 with maybe the community on this. I’m not saying I wouldn’t support it, I think the process… 2 This process should not pass this element. That’s… I just was uncomfortable with that. 3 Chair Lauing: Ok so, for now, the pull list is Six, Seven which is kind of the same, Twelve and 4 Seventeen. 5 Commissioner Alcheck: I also don’t think Six and Seven are the same. 6 Chair Lauing: No but they are related. We discussed them (interrupted) 7 Commissioner Alcheck: I think one of them… for one of them the issue was potentially 8 [unintelligible] but for the other one its esthetics. I don’t know that they are the same. 9 Chair Lauing: Well my view on this is when we get through the next four, whether that’s now or 10 in two weeks, we’ll come back to these pulls and discuss them again and see if we need to 11 actually pull them or we just need to revise them. 12 Commissioner Alcheck: Ok. 13 Chair Lauing: So, we’re all concurred that we’re going to move to Agenda Item Number Three 14 and this is agenda… Sorry, Commissioner Summa? 15 Commissioner Summa: Can I make a quick comment about I. Eighteen? 16 Chair Lauing: Eighteen. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: The one we were just doing before we move on. The one we just did, 1 the trash enclosure. 2 Chair Lauing: Ok, trash. 3 Commissioner Summa: Yeah, trash enclosure so I also didn’t understand why this wouldn’t be 4 in like 1806 which is other exemptions in the CD district. And it seems to me… I understand the 5 need to craft something for the downtown district regarding trash enclosures for existing 6 buildings but I think it would be better in the CD zoning, and there is a section as I mentioned 7 that has other exemptions, rather than changing all the exemptions everywhere to add trash. I 8 just… I’m a little uncomfortable. I understand the special conservation area as being an 9 exemption because it’s providing a unique solution to the environmental problem but trash has 10 always been around and it doesn’t fall into the same category for me. And I think it just looks 11 like kind of a give away of FAR to me, which I think that the public is uncomfortable with. So, I 12 would like to discuss it more or at least if nobody else wants to discuss more, at least get that 13 on the record. Thanks. 14 Chair Lauing: Yes, go ahead. 15 Commissioner Waldfogel: Sorry, just a question... One other legal question for Twenty-four and 16 Twenty-five, is there any urgency around deadlines proposed by state law? Is anything 17 happening on January 1 if we don’t act quickly? 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: I thought that we said this was only going to come up for Council in 1 February anyway? 2 Commissioner Waldfogel: Well but this is (interrupted) 3 Commissioner Alcheck: So how could our incorporation today (interrupted) 4 Commissioner Waldfogel: Well the question… Yes, but still the question does anything happen 5 on January 1 if we don’t act in a speedy way? 6 Mr. Yang: So, I’ll need to take a closer look at these but my understanding is that there changes 7 where just meant to conform to state law so if we don’t make these changes, we’ll still have to 8 comply with state law and our local code just won’t be consistent. 9 Commissioner Waldfogel: Right but is there any validation of the rest of our code from non-10 conformance with state law? I’ve seen some analysis that suggests that there might be if we’re 11 not fully in compliance? 12 Mr. Yang: I’ll take a closer look but doubt it. 13 Mr. Lait: Can I… Commissioner Summa, can you… That code section that you referenced you 14 said 1806 I believe. 15 Commissioner Summa: [unintelligible – mic not on] 16 Mr. Lait: Ok, thank you. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: I think it’s e, little letter e. Its [unintelligible – no mic on] 1 Mr. Lait: Great, I see it, thank you. 2 [The Commission decided to hear Items Three and Four and come back to Item Two later.] 3 Mr. Lait: Well yeah but I… So, I… Correct and just to be clear, I thought we had tabled Item 4 Number Two to see if we were going to revisit it after this discussion. We’re happy to do that 5 but if you’re not, we would like you to continue it to the next meeting. 6 MOTION 7 Commissioner Alcheck: I’d like to move that we continue Item Two to the next meeting. 8 SECOND 9 Commissioner Monk: I’ll second that. 10 Mr. Lait: Ok, and that’s December 13 for the record. 11 Chair Lauing: Any discussion on that point? 12 SUBSTITUTE MOTION 13 Commissioner Gardias: Well, if I may just make a comment? Since this is a motion, I think that 14 it's up to you if you still have power, I think it would be beneficial to the Staff to spend another 15 half an hour just to go through the rest of the items so at least they can hear our comments. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Otherwise, if there was to be something new, we are going to just spill this over through the 1 next after the following meeting. So, my proposal is the substitute motion just to continue for 2 another half an hour to go through the rest of the items on this second topic. 3 Chair Lauing: Yes, go ahead Commissioner Alcheck, speak to your motion. 4 Commissioner Alcheck: I’ll just quickly speak to my motion before you seek a second for that 5 substitute motion. Which is that I do think that the items that are at the end of this, some of 6 them are more complex and will take more time. I want to suggest to you that our 7 Commissioner Rosenblum began the meeting by referring to Items Twenty-four and Twenty-8 Five specifically and that I think it would probably behoove us to come together at the next 9 meeting with fresh minds and also our seventh Commissioner. Because I think it will help us 10 when we conclude the review and determine how you should process the items that you’re 11 pulling. In addition to the discussion of the remaining items, we also need to have a process 12 discussion on what we really want to see. And I think it’s just going to take time and I’d rather 13 have Commissioner Rosenblum be apart of those two discussions. 14 Chair Lauing: Yeah to be clear there wasn’t a substitute motion. He was just speaking against 15 the motion. 16 Commissioner Alcheck: I actually think he made a substitute motion. 17 Commissioner Gardias: No, actually I was trying to make a substitute motion. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t hear that. 1 Commissioner Gardias: Yes, but I respect… He’s right because he should have spoken 2 (interrupted) 3 Chair Lauing: Yeah, I’m sorry, I did not hear (interrupted) 4 Commissioner Gardias: His motion first. 5 Chair Lauing: I didn’t hear the word substitute. I thought you were just speaking against the 6 motion. Alright, so I thought that was going to pass quickly so that’s why I moved along so the 7 second can also speak to the motion and then we’ll have to come back to the substitute. 8 Commissioner Monk: Yeah, I just want to clarify that at our next meeting it looks like we don’t 9 have a lot on the agenda and so I think we do have time to discuss Items Nineteen through 10 Twenty-Seven to continue it. Is that right Jon… Assistant Director? 11 Mr. Lait: Yes, so you’re going to receive a housing law update, that will probably be the first 12 item on your agenda and we have a discussion on ADUs. 13 Commissioner Alcheck: Thirty minutes on process. 14 Mr. Lait: We’ve got the thirty minutes process discussion, you’ve got this ordinance so I mean 15 it’s not a lite agenda. 16 Chair Lauing: How many housing laws are you going to update for us? There are a lot of them. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: There’s like thirteen or something. 1 Chair Lauing: Yeah, that’s why I was asking. 2 Commissioner Alcheck: I’m sorry, is it your anticipation that presentation will be long? 3 Mr. Lait: Well, it could be tailored to the Commission’s interest but the other thing is we’re 4 presenting it to the City Council. The Commission is interested, it could also (interrupted) 5 Commissioner Alcheck: Are you seeking input on revisions to it? 6 Mr. Lait: No, we’re just informing. There’s some interesting housing law updates that we’re 7 going to have to (interrupted) 8 Commissioner Alcheck: State law. 9 Mr. Lait: Respond too. 10 Commissioner Alcheck: It seems like a lot of reading material but not necessarily a lot of time. 11 Mr. Lait: Well again, so we can… I mean (interrupted) 12 Chair Lauing: We pace that with our numbers of questions. Ok, so let’s get back on… So, it was 13 not a comment against the motion, it’s a substitute motion to continue moving along. 14 Commissioner Gardias: Yes, so (interrupted) 15 Chair Lauing: So, now I need a second for that. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Gardias: So, let me just reiterate this. So just (interrupted) 1 Chair Lauing: We don’t have a second so if we don’t have a second, we can’t (interrupted) 2 Commissioner Gardias: Half an hour just to give Staff the taste of our comments. I understand 3 this topic will continue in the second but I propose just to go quickly through the rest of those. 4 We can at least read out the comments, they can make a note (interrupted) 5 Chair Lauing: I understand. 6 Commissioner Gardias: And then make our following meeting productive. Thank you. 7 Chair Lauing: Is there a second to the substitute motion? 8 SECOND 9 Commissioner Summa: I will second. 10 Chair Lauing: Ok, now we get to have debate on the substitute motion; thirty-minutes more on 11 the (interrupted) 12 Commissioner Alcheck: I don’t think it’s realistic to assume we will finish in thirty minutes these 13 issues because I think they are actually just as complex as (interrupted) 14 Chair Lauing: I believe he just suggested a substitute motion to limit it to thirty no matter 15 where we are. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: I know but the point though is that somehow by working on it tonight, 1 we won’t have anything to work on next week, which means that they could bring this to 2 complete… If we work on it in two-weeks, that means there’s probably going to be a third 3 meeting. I think he’s trying to avoid that, I think thirty minutes is going to cut it so at the very 4 least we’re going to have to meet next time. And so, I just… I don’t see why we would go 5 through that exercise? 6 Chair Lauing: Any further comments? Ok, substitute motion is to continue on, whatever that 7 was, Item Two for thirty minutes. 8 Commissioner Monk: Tonight? 9 VOTE ON SUBSTITUTE MOTION 10 Chair Lauing: Yep so all in favor of that motion? Two. Opposed? Five [Note- four], defeated. 11 SUBSTITUTE MOTION FAILED: 2(Gardias, Summa) -4(Alcheck, Lauing, Monk, Waldfogel) -1 12 (Rosenblum Absent) 13 VOTE ON ORIGINAL MOTION 14 Chair Lauing: Back to the original motion so the motion is to continue it to the next meeting. All 15 in favor of that? All in favor of this motion, please to continue to the next meeting, Item Two? 16 Right now, we’ve got one, two, three, four, five. And opposed? One. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. MOTION PASSED 5 (Gardias, Waldfogel, Monk, Lauing, Alcheck) -1 (Summa) -1(Rosenblum 1 absent) 2 Chair Lauing: Right, ok. 3 Commissioner Summa: [unintelligible – mic not on] 4 Commissioner Monk: I just wanted to point out that the person who drafted the Staff report is 5 no longer here so I don’t think there’s value in having it continued tonight anyway. 6 Mr. Lait: But the person who reviewed it is so. 7 Commissioner Monk: So, it would have been fine to… Ok. 8 Commissioner Gardias: And who was that? 9 Commissioner Monk: Oh, so you would like to stay? 10 [The Commission moved to the approval of minutes.] 11 Commission Action: Item was continued to December 13, 2017. 12 3. Discussion Regarding the Commission's Performance, Roles and Responsibilities, and 13 Opportunity for Commissioner Feedback to Improve Processes and Results. 14 Chair Lauing: Ok so we’re on Agenda Item Number Three, a discussion regarding the 15 Commission’s performance, roles and responsibilities. Feedback back on to improve process 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. and results. And I know Michael put this on the agenda and one thing that I just want to point 1 out is that I have found it very effective to do annual retreats at the beginning of the year and 2 that would be my intent with all of your concurrent. One thing that… Again, just in my 3 experience that this kind of stuff worked really well in a retreat where you could dig into it and 4 we aren’t boring the millions of television viewers at home and so on. So, whatever happens 5 here, we at least get another shot at that in a retreat setting in a couple weeks so I just want to 6 put that on the table as an up and coming event. So, why don’t you start it Michael and see 7 what folks have to say. 8 Commissioner Alcheck: So, I just wanted to sort of provide a little bit of context here. I’ve been 9 on the Commission a little over 5 ½-years. We have never done this but we have talked about it 10 at nuance and so I’ve been working for a few months now to sort of get this. It just so 11 happened that it occurred before… Well not while I was still Chair but my intention was 12 twofold. My intention was I wanted to suggest that… Let’s say for a moment that I was Chair. I 13 was going to suggest that I was hopeful that all of you would consider providing some 14 construction feedback based on the experience that you had this year. I don’t know if I have 15 them right now but the idea would be… Commissioner Gardias and Commissioner Waldfogel. 16 Chair Lauing: Gentlemen. Mr. Gardias. 17 Commissioner Alcheck: The real goal… I don’t want to interrupt you guys over there. The real 18 goal here… The only value that can be obtained by this is not necessarily my participation alone. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. I think the real value here is if there is something about the way that we performed or the 1 process, this is a good opportunity to have an initial discussion. I know that the (interrupt) 2 Commissioner Monk: It’s actually hard for me to concentrate. Do we need to take a little break 3 before he continues? If there’s some (interrupt) 4 Commissioner Alcheck: I know that we have currently agenized a meeting to discuss revisions 5 to our bylaws. I’ll give you just a quick example that might spur this discussion. One of those 6 changes could be that we could adopt on our own the decision that we would not entertain 7 substitute motions. That we would allow motions to proceed, get voted on before a substitute 8 motion could take place. So, as to allow maybe a more respectful format, that’s an example. I 9 put on this thing meeting management, goal setting, agenda setting, preparation, Commission 10 and Staff interaction, meeting organization, discussion and debate, public engagement, 11 motions, amendments and substitute motions. What I was trying to do is create a forum for you 12 guys to say look, I didn’t think this worked well. I don’t expect us to take an hour and do this but 13 I’m… I am more than comfortable hearing that feedback and I think to some extent if 14 something different work well this year and you talk about it now, it will help inform our new 15 leadership as they begin to sort of create their process. So, I would consider this an open 16 (interrupted) 17 Chair Lauing: It’s a post-mortem. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, it's an exit interview. I mean when I first sort of designed this, I 1 didn’t know necessarily that I would be reappointed and I’m not going to take it personally. If 2 you didn’t like something about the way I did, fine. You don’t like something about the way we 3 interact, Staff, let’s talk about it. You don’t think that the meeting agenda should have been this 4 way, let’s begin to talk about it so that when we come back in January to begin to reassess, 5 maybe that’s at a retreat, our bylaws, it’s not the first time we’ve thought about it. I don’t think 6 we should decide today a motion on how to change. I think we should give each other some 7 input so that when we come back in January, we will have had more time to think about some 8 of the suggestions. So, I’ll suggest, like I did, I would support a change to our bylaws that 9 discourage the practice of using substitute motions during our decision-making process so that 10 we could effectively process that. That would be a change I would support. I now want you all 11 to feel very comfortable if you have any ideas of how this year worked or any of the previous 12 years you’ve worked on the Commission. 13 Chair Lauing: Open to comments but I would also welcome comments on process. Which of 14 these to handle tonight, if any or if we want to put it in a separate kind of a meeting for the 15 post-mortem. Because it definitely sets up how do we want to do things in 2018 so comments? 16 Commissioner… Let’s see, who was up first? Waldfogel. 17 MOTION #1 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Waldfogel: Yeah, I’d like to make a motion to continue this to a study session at 1 some date in the future. I mean possibly January but I don’t think we’re in a place to set a date 2 certain for a study session. 3 Chair Lauing: Ok, is there a second to that? 4 Commissioner Summa: I had a question before the Chair… Our new Chair mentioned maybe 5 doing it at a retreat you know so we could really dig in deep. Is that what you mean by study 6 session? 7 Commissioner Waldfogel: A retreat/study session. 8 Commissioner Summa: Ok, I will second that. 9 Chair Lauing: Ok, then (interrupted) 10 Commissioner Monk: I just have a comment that (interrupted) 11 Chair Lauing: Could the maker just speak to the motion briefly? 12 Commissioner Waldfogel: I think that there’s a lot to discuss here. You know I don’t think we’re 13 going to have a productive discussion on this starting at 9:15 and I mean I think these are good 14 topics to [Note - suss?] out. I think we need a format to possibility… We need a format to share 15 some thoughts. We might want to continue this to our next meeting so that we can at least 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. distribute comments among the Commission. But I just think that taking this up right now is not 1 the most productive way to get to an outcome. 2 Commissioner Monk: I have a substitute motion. 3 Chair Lauing: Can we just hear the second speak? 4 Commissioner Monk: Sure. 5 Commissioner Summa: So, I don’t… I do think it’s a little late to start this conversation tonight 6 and I do think that this is basically for us. It’s for our interior process and I don’t think we need 7 to certainly have all the Staff here and I don’t think we need to take public hearing time on this 8 because I think it would be good… I think it would be better to do it in an informal venue. And 9 where we can really just talk to each other and really figure these things out. 10 Chair Lauing: Ok. Yes, Commissioner Monk? 11 SUBSTITUTE MOTION 12 Commissioner Monk: I move that we have a brief time discussion tonight and/or at our next 13 meeting this year because if we push this out to next year, we want the benefit of reflecting the 14 entire Commission. And I think we don’t have to make this a big, long drawn out thing. I think 15 what former Chair Alcheck is trying to accomplish is just get some feedback here and to push 16 this out to next year and have a study session, to me seems quite extensive and excessive. It’s 17 not that late, I think we can have a twenty-minutes discussion on it tonight. So that would be 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. my motion, to just time box it to twenty-minutes tonight and then reevaluate the remainder of 1 it. 2 Chair Lauing: Is there a second to that? 3 Commissioner Alcheck: I’ll second that. 4 Chair Lauing: You don’t even like substitute motions. 5 Commissioner Alcheck: I don’t but I want to make a case here. 6 Chair Lauing: Ok, let’s have a discussion on the substitute motion. 7 Commissioner Alcheck: May I speak to it? 8 Chair Lauing: Yeah. 9 Commissioner Alcheck: So, I’ll just say look, it’s possible… I… One of the sorts of… I want to just 10 suggest to our Chair that I would astonish, more than astonished. Astonished isn’t even a 11 significant enough term to suggest that if you succeed at calendaring a retreat in January, it’s as 12 kind as to winning the lottery on this Commission. So, our retreats are actually the same as our 13 meetings, they are just not in this room. The entire community is invited to them, we still have 14 to practice our normal protocol and I don’t even know… To some extent, they might even have 15 to be televised. I’m not entirely sure about that. There is very little difference between the 16 retreat except for the “in formalness” of it. Maybe more of us would wear jeans although I 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. think the vast majority of us probably are. My point though isn’t so much a dispute, I don’t 1 want to get into a head argument with Commissioner Waldfogel. The idea here is that I believe 2 this discussion could help tee off the next one. And I say that because maybe something here 3 will help us begin to prepare for that next meeting and that’s what I’m trying to encourage. 4 Again, I know… I don’t… That’s… I’m not… I hate substitute motions but I wanted to be able to 5 articulate this concept so that’s why I support it. 6 Chair Lauing: Any other comments on the substitute motion? 7 Commissioner Alcheck: By the way, you may want to check with Staff to understand the 8 feasibility of the idea that you have of January before you make your decision. 9 Chair Lauing: Any other comments on the substitute motion? Yeah, in my experience, Staff has 10 definitely been invited and attended. 11 Commissioner Alcheck: No, I’m not saying that Staff couldn’t attend. I’m saying that there is a 12 lot of nuances… We’ve tried to have a retreat for the last 3 ½-years and we haven’t succeeded. 13 So, I (interrupted) 14 Commissioner Waldfogel: That’s not good. 15 Commissioner Alcheck: Encourage you to succeed in that regard. I just don’t want you to be… I 16 don’t want there to be sort of naiveté about how easy it is to schedule these things. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Ok, any other discussion on the substitute motion? Ok, the substitute motion is to 1 have some time-limited, not mentioned or not specified. 2 Commissioner Monk: I said a twenty-minute time box (interrupted) 3 Chair Lauing: Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t hear that. 4 Commissioner Monk: Tonight. I think that we’re just looking for some feedback while we’re all 5 here and I think that the Staff should be here and it does need to be noticed. We can’t do it 6 informally because of the Brown Act so it’s on the agenda, I think we should try to (interrupted) 7 Chair Lauing: Ok, all I was asking if was there a time bar. 8 Commissioner Monk: Yeah, I suggested a twenty-minute discussion tonight. 9 Chair Lauing: Ok so the motion… Substitute motion is theirs, excuse me, a twenty-minute 10 discussion tonight on these times. 11 Commissioner Monk: There’s six of us, maybe four-minutes each. 12 VOTE 13 Chair Lauing: So, all in favor of that motion? Two and all opposed? Three and I’m abstaining 14 from that. 15 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. SUBSTITUTE MOTION FAILED 2(Alcheck and Monk) – 3(Gardias, Waldfogel, Summa)-1 (Lauing 1 abstaining) -1(Rosenblum absent) 2 Chair Lauing: So, then let’s move onto agenda Item Number Four and that is the first reading, 3 the first draft of the Annual Report to the Council. (interrupted) 4 Mr. Yang: Chair? Sorry. I’m sorry after the substitute motion failed, you would need to vote on 5 the main motion. 6 Chair Lauing: Oh, I’m sorry. Thank you. Ok, all in favor of the original motion to carry this to a 7 future date should vote for that. So, all in favor? Well, it’s uncertain. My intent would try to be 8 to do at the retreat. 9 Commissioner Alcheck: Is that a retreat at a future date uncertain? 10 Chair Lauing: Yeah which you’ve pointed out must say uncertain as of tonight. 11 Commissioner Alcheck: It’s ok, [unintelligible] was a dream that has never been a reality. 12 Chair Lauing: Ok, so all in favor of the original motion? 13 Commissioner Monk: So, does the original take this off calendar essentially if we don’t have a 14 retreat? What’s the effect of [unintelligible] (interrupted) 15 Chair Lauing: No, the effect is this is being postponed to a date uncertain. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Monk: That sounds like it might not happen. 1 Chair Lauing: Well, we’ve talked about our intent. 2 Commissioner Monk: I’m just surprised that this Commission doesn’t want to just discuss and 3 give feedback to each other on the year. That would benefit myself as a new Vice Chair I think. 4 So, I’m just curious why we don’t want to discuss feedback? 5 Chair Lauing: If somebody wants to speak to that who’s in favor of the motion but we’re at the 6 point of voting on the motion. 7 Commissioner Monk: I’d like to hear the maker of the motion a little bit more clarity on what 8 you’d like to see happen. 9 MOTION #2 10 Commissioner Waldfogel: I’d just like to call the question. 11 Commissioner Monk: What does that (interrupted) 12 Chair Lauing: Ok, all in favor? 13 Commissioner Alcheck: Can I make an amendment? Can I offer a friendly amendment? 14 Chair Lauing: Procedurally it would be to the original motion. 15 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: I think we need to look at our rules here. I think when the question is called, I think 1 that has presidents. 2 Chair Lauing: I think it does. 3 FRIENDLY AMENDMENT 4 Commissioner Alcheck: While you’re checking on that I would suggest that my friendly 5 amendment would be to push it to the next meeting in this calendar year so at least we can 6 determine it with a full seven or maybe start earlier. 7 Commissioner Summa: [unintelligible -mic not on] 8 Chair Lauing: Yes, Commissioner Summa. 9 Commissioner Summa: So, when I said retreat and informal, I was actually thinking of a… This 10 year the Council had a retreat and it was informal in the sense that it wasn’t broadcasted. Of 11 course, it was open to the public because there was a quorum and it was a more informal way 12 of addressing one another. But it was also not recorded and there were no minutes and there’s 13 no reason for certain planning Staff to listen to our conversation. That’s what I meant by 14 informal and if it’s better achieved at a study session if we can schedule it more easily then just 15 keep it a study session. 16 Mr. Lait: Ok, so the… If I may Chair? So, the… Yeah, the motion to call for a vote requires a 17 second and its passage is by a two-thirds vote of the Commission. If you are… That would be 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. the thing to do at this point and I’ll just say antidotally, we’re happy to work with you to 1 schedule an informal study session in January. We just need to look for some rooms and get 2 folks together and find a date that’s compatible for everybody. It looks like we have an agenda 3 for it so I think we could make it work. 4 Chair Lauing: Ok so we’re voting now on calling the question if there’s a second to 5 Commissioner Waldfogel’s motion. Call a question just moves it to a vote, that’s all it does. 6 Commissioner Alcheck: It prohibits amendments. 7 Chair Lauing: It prohibits new amendments if we go… And so, is there a second to that? 8 Commissioner Summa: I’ll second it. Second. 9 VOTE 10 Chair Lauing: Ok so… Pardon me? Yeah, we need four. So, all in favor of going to the original 11 motion? That’s the call so let’s vote on that. Everybody vote on that. So, we need four to go to 12 the call the question. Ok, so that passes. 13 MOTION #2 PASSED 4(Gardias, Waldfogel, Lauing, Summa) -2(Alcheck, Monk) -1 (Rosenblum 14 absent). 15 Chair Lauing: Now we’re going to the original motion that we started with so I can barely 16 remember how to phrase that one now. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Mr. Lait: It’s just that you’re continuing this item to a date uncertain at a future retreat to be 1 scheduled in early 2018. 2 Chair Lauing: I don’t know if we specified it had to be ’18. 3 Mr. Lait: That’s a date uncertain. 4 Chair Lauing: Right, so that leaves the (interrupted) 5 Commissioner Monk: What’s the effect of a no vote on that motion? 6 Mr. Lait: So (interrupted) 7 Chair Lauing: No. 8 Mr. Lait: What this means is that our (interrupted) 9 Commissioner Monk: It means that it’s off calendar tonight and we don’t… If we vote no, if off 10 calendar tonight and we don’t support it being heard in the future. Is that (interrupted) 11 Chair Lauing: No, no, no. If we’re voting for the original motion, it means that we’re just 12 continuing this item to a different meeting. Some of the discussion here was to do it at the 13 retreat leaving 218 [Note – possibly 2018?] off of that. It could still be scheduled at the next 14 meeting or at a special meeting or anything like that. 15 Commissioner Monk: Or if it doesn’t pass, we hear it tonight? Got it, thank you. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. VOTE 1 Chair Lauing: Ok so all in favor of that original motion please vote. Alright and opposed? And an 2 abstention so that’s where we started this so it passes 3-2-1. 3 MOTION PASSED 3(Summa, Gardias, Waldfogel) -2(Alcheck, Monk)-1(Lauing abstaining)-4 1(Rosenblum absent). 5 Commissioner Alcheck: Can it pass with less than majority? 6 Chair Lauing: It can now because someone walked out. 7 Commissioner Alcheck: No, I mean less than the majority of the people present who voted for 8 it. Fifty percent is not [unintelligible-mic not on], just making a point. 9 Chair Lauing: Well, now that’s actually a valid point. It depends on if (interrupted) 10 Commissioner Alcheck: Literally we could have [unintelligible] discussion. 11 Chair Lauing: Yeah but that’s not what we’re discussing [unintelligible]. 12 Mr. Yang: Under the Commission’s rules, the abstainer chooses not to vote and in effect 13 consents that a majority of the quorum present may act of him or her. 14 Chair Lauing: What was that? 15 Mr. Lait: Ok so that motion fails. 16 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: I’d like to make a motion. 1 Commissioner Gardias: I’m sorry, could you just rephrase it because I thought that abstention 2 just… It is just the vote for the majority. That’s my understanding of abstention in our bylaws 3 and in specifically that’s what abstention is, right? 4 Mr. Yang: The abstainer consents that a majority of a quorum of the Commissioners present 5 may act for him or her. So, you’re… The Commissioners present… There are six Commissioner’s 6 presents, the majority of that quorum of Commissioners present would be four. 7 Commissioner Alcheck: I’d like to make a motion. 8 Chair Lauing: So, that’s because the Commission that left is no longer a part of the quorum? 9 How interesting. I’m not sure that’s really true. Ok, yes? 10 MOTION #4 11 Commissioner Alcheck: I’d like to make a motion that we… Tonight is too late as Commissioner 12 Summa suggested, that we move this item to our following meeting and take it up earlier on 13 the agenda and limit it to thirty minutes. 14 Chair Lauing: Are there any seconds for that? 15 Commissioner Summa: I’ll second. 16 Chair Lauing: Ok, moved and seconded. Discussion (interrupted) 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Summa: And hopefully Eric will be here. 1 Chair Lauing: From others? I mean so I had one comment. I mean the question to me if that’s 2 really the right forum as we’ve discussed here for twenty minutes. If that’s the optimal forum 3 given Staff time, television audience and things like that. So, I don’t know that I see the urgency 4 that it has to be done in two weeks or three weeks or four weeks or that it has to be done as 5 part of this… with our other agenda items. So, any other comments? Commissioner Gardias. 6 Commissioner Gardias: If I may say something about this right? So… And I totally understand 7 Mike, that he’s trying to… We have of course a motion on the floor. 8 Commissioner Alcheck: [unintelligible – no mic on] 9 Commissioner Gardias: So, may I finish or you want to (interrupted) 10 Chair Lauing: Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. 11 Commissioner Gardias: Sorry, if you don’t mind? Thank you very much and sorry for intruding 12 this. As I understand that we have a motion on the floor, we should be voting for this, I totally 13 get it but I totally… Mike understands that very much he wants to just review… Summarize the 14 year that he Chaired this Commission but you know there’s a couple items. First of all, there 15 was a new Chair, he’s in charge, he proposed to just to have it at a later date. I think that an 16 item like this, from my perspective, needs to be prepared (interrupted) 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: I’m sorry, as a point of order, our Chair did not propose that the item be 1 moved to a different date. He didn’t second the motion that moved and he abstained from the 2 vote. So, just to be clear, I’m actually… I don’t think I’m arguing with the Chair. I think the 3 motion was initiated by Commissioner Waldfogel, seconded by Commissioner Summa. I 4 thought her reasons where because it was too late to start which is why I made a new motion 5 which suggested that we pick it up at the beginning of the next meeting. So, I… don’t rewrite 6 history, please. 7 Commissioner Gardias: Alright well (interrupted) 8 Chair Lauing: Ok. 9 Commissioner Gardias: Excuse me. 10 Chair Lauing: Let’s continue the (interrupted) 11 Commissioner Gardias: I just refer to the words that I heard. You can check in the meeting 12 minutes, he was just speaking exactly to this. He wanted to just have it at a future date and 13 items like this pretty much are prepared right? At this moment there is nothing prepared so 14 you're pretty much just asking us to pretty much speak of our hearts and minds; which is good 15 but to my knowledge, any post-mortem items are being prepared before any discussion takes 16 place. So, pretty much they are being (interrupted) 17 Commissioner Alcheck: It literally says (interrupted) 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Ok, just let him finish and then we’ll (interrupted) 1 Commissioner Alcheck: It’s Commission (interrupted) 2 Chair Lauing: Ok, alright, just let him go. 3 Commissioner Gardias: And then so that is just from the pragmatic perspective. We can talk but 4 if there needs to be a value, somebody just needs to spend some time and just prepare for this 5 discussion. 6 Chair Lauing: Ok. 7 Commissioner Gardias: Then you know the last argument, it’s a history right so we’re moving 8 forward and I support the words that I heard from Ed about just focusing on the retreat and just 9 putting this together with the retreat. 10 Chair Lauing: Commissioner Summa. 11 Commissioner Summa: So, at this point the reason I seconded Commissioner Alcheck’s idea of 12 spending thirty-minutes on it next week, I originally envisioned this to be a quick long 13 conversation. It’s a lot of topics and there… It is as Commissioner Gardias said, we would sort of 14 be speaking from our heart because there isn’t an out… Much of an outline. It’s just a list of… A 15 lengthy list of things and I envisioned a very long conversation so… But I think there’s merit in 16 doing this and before Eric leaves the Commission. And I think limiting it to half an hour is a 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. perfectly reasonable thing to do. I don’t think… I do think it won’t be the end of the 1 conversation, it will be the beginning of the conversation at half an hour. 2 VOTE 3 Chair Lauing: Any other comments before I just chime in? I appreciate that last comment 4 because that was exactly what I was going to say. Is that whatever we do at the next meeting or 5 before 2017 ends, this will be on the agenda for the retreat because we have to chart a way 6 forward. So, maybe we’re not kind of separating it into a mini post-mortem and then a 7 productive conversation on the best ways of moving forward. Just on a personal note, I’m very 8 respectful of prior Chair’s service and interest in getting this feedback for the benefit of the 9 future. I know that this is not for his memoirs so I’m very respectful of that which is why I 10 originally abstained on this. Because I think it should be done and I salute that, I just think that 11 the setting is not optimal; doing it right here. So, if there are no other questions, the motion on 12 the floor is to do this at the next meeting with a thirty minutes time frame. All in favor of that 13 motion please raise your hand? Four. Opposed? Two. 14 MOTION PASSES 4(Summa, Alcheck, Lauing, Monk)-2(Gardias, Waldfogel)-1(Rosenblum absent) 15 Commission Action: Item was continued to December 13, 2017. 16 4. Discussion Regarding the Planning and Transportation Commission's Annual 17 Report to the City Council. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: The next item on the agenda is Number Four and that is the discussion first draft 1 Commissions Annual Report to City Council per our Chair’s request at the last meeting. We’ll 2 have the Chair emeritus sort of monitor this discussion so I yield the Chair. 3 Commissioner Alcheck: So, I think there’s a little bit of miscommunication in terms of the 4 background. Over the course of the last six weeks because we ended up adding a meeting and… 5 Or we ended up canceling a meeting that I thought we were going to have. The original intent 6 was that there would be this sort of two-step process where I would present some rough ideas 7 and then get feedback and comply it into a finish memo. Because of the cancellation and 8 because… I was… I think I reiterated that to Staff but I don’t know that I did a good enough job 9 because it's not included here but because of the cancellation, I ended up… We didn’t have that 10 opportunity. This is the final form of the memo, that’s why it’s signed so I would love to know 11 what you guys think of some of the suggestions. Whether you feel like I… whether you endorse 12 them or not. I’ll reiterate a few of the ideas here. My intent is to communicate my… This Chair’s 13 report to Council as my sort of complete analysis of… As a complete sort of articulation of my 14 idea about this year and about my work as the Chair. But again, I think to a certain extent your 15 comments could be instructive as… I guess it would be included as minutes to this item when it 16 gets up there. 17 Chair Lauing: But this is agenized as a draft and next meeting is the final. 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, it was originally agenized to be two parts. There was going to be a 1 discussion on sort of general topics and then I was going to put them together. The problem is 2 we canceled the middle meeting and (interrupted) 3 Chair Lauing: Right but you’re not saying this is the final draft. 4 Commissioner Alcheck: This is my final draft. 5 Chair Lauing: But this can come back to us on the 13th as is currently agenized. 6 Commissioner Alcheck: What I would suggest is that we move tonight… My motion tonight 7 would be to… I don’t actually know if there’s a motion process for the Chair’s report to Council 8 to be submitted. 9 Chair Lauing: I don’t understand why you wouldn’t bring it back on the 13th as it’s already 10 agenized because there’s time to do it. The comments tonight could be incorporated into 11 another draft. 12 Commissioner Alcheck: So, it’s rare for… Typically this goes out before the Chair has 13 relinquished control of the Chairmen Chair and in years past we’ve followed two different 14 processes. One was a co-authorship, one… And several times… It’s often in the past followed 15 the... What do you… The prerogative of the Chair at the time whether to include other 16 members in the authorship of the letter. In this particular instance when we met almost eight 17 weeks ago and talked about it, the consensus was… My feedback that I got was that the 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commission felt comfortable with me drafting the memo and it wouldn’t… I sought advice of 1 the Commission to determine whether or not they were comfortable with that. And the 2 determination I made was that during that meeting that they were comfortable with that and 3 as a result of that (interrupted) 4 Chair Lauing: Well, when… I was going to say you can make that decision later because it is 5 agenized. 6 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, I know. My point is that my intent is to submit this to Council. If 7 the Chair feels very differently about this, what I would suggest is the Chair could author his 8 own report to Council and submit it on his own on the 13th. My intent as outgoing Chair and 9 that’s why this is signed, that this is in final form as the sort of summation of my thoughts about 10 the year. I am happy for us to have a discussion. I don’t know that anybody here is really 11 interested in having any more discussions tonight but I’m happy to have a discussion about how 12 you guys feel about some of the things that I’ve (interrupted) 13 Chair Lauing: Yeah, let’s do that. 14 Commissioner Alcheck: Communicated to Council. But this is not… I don’t want to give you guys 15 the mistake and impression that in two weeks I will come back with a revision to this. I am done 16 being Chair and I am not going to continue editing the Chair’s… the outgoing Chair’s report to 17 Council based on our discussion tonight. I think the minutes could reflect your opinion about 18 this letter and maybe those are included with the Chair’s letter. I don’t know that they are. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Chair Lauing: Ok, I just think we should get some comments and then we can (interrupted) 1 Commissioner Alcheck: I just didn’t want… I wanted to set you up so you understood that at the 2 next meeting I (interrupted) 3 Chair Lauing: But there’s still time to change it if you want to is all I’m saying. So, we can… Let’s 4 just get the comments. 5 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, no, actually my intent was that tonight we would submit it. We 6 would determine that it gets submitted so that the Council can actually hear it before their 7 break. I don’t (interrupted) 8 Chair Lauing: So, the first… your lights on I believe, Commissioner Summa. Ok. 9 Commissioner Alcheck: So, wait, hold on, I’m sorry. So, I’m just going to put this out here now. I 10 welcome the comments but I’m making a motion that we conclude the discussion tonight and 11 move… And submit this item… I don’t… Do we need to motion that? 12 Mr. Lait: No, you don’t. This is (interrupted) 13 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, that’s what I thought. 14 Mr. Lait: You can send this letter… There’s no… And this could be something that we talk about 15 for you rules of order. You know this Annual Report if you want to set up a process for this but 16 Commissioner Alcheck’s free to send this letter unedited. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. MOTION 1 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, I’m saying this out of an abundance of respect for this 2 Commission. I don’t intend to work on this anymore. This is a summation of my views and I’m 3 happy to hear what you guys think about it but we won’t… I won’t… I don’t think we should… 4 We should remove… Maybe our motion should be to remove from the agenda next week… two 5 weeks from now. 6 Chair Lauing: Ok, let’s get the comments. 7 Commissioner Summa: Well, for starters this was agenized as a draft letter. The understanding 8 with your colleagues was that you were going to submit a draft for comments. So, I am 9 completely, one hundred percent uncomfortable with you coming and presenting a final letter. 10 Especially given that we have already put it on the second… The final report to Council on 11 December 13th. So, I don’t know what to say about this letter because I mean you can send 12 anything to Council you want. You’re a free person but this letter does not accurately reflect I 13 believe the last year’s work in all cases. I think it is very far ranging and assuming that Staff 14 would… That we have the authority to have these formal subcommittees and that Staff would… 15 We’d now be… And that would consider things separately from the full group. And that Staff 16 would have to provide… I’m assuming that for these two subcommittees, that Staff would have 17 to provide Staff reports and do all the work that they do for a regular meeting. You know I’m 18 sorry to be negative because I’m sure you spent a lot of time on it and thought about it a lot. 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. You’re a thoughtful person but even the way you describe our work on the Comprehensive Plan 1 is inaccurate to me because we didn’t work on the whole plan. We worked on two elements 2 and we spent what I think was… Unfortunately ended up being over the three-month period. 3 Not really enough time going through those two elements. It took us a long time to get started 4 and figure out what procedure we were going to use. So, I mean this is not representative of us 5 as a whole and I’m not very aware of in the past of seeing an annual report from a Board that 6 was so… that didn’t reflect the whole Board. So, I’m sorry to say that I’m not very comfortable 7 with it and I don’t consider it fair at the last minute to say it’s a final, not a draft in the eleventh 8 hour. 9 Chair Lauing: Commissioner… Oh, wait, Commissioner Gardias, was your light on? 10 Commissioner Gardias: Sure, thank you. So, yeah, I think that this is the letter that past 11 Chairmen has the right to issue on his personal behalf and so just send it to the Council. And it 12 should have been done actually by today so I’m fine with whatever form it goes out and he 13 doesn’t have to ask me about my stand, however, I will provide a comment. So, when I look at 14 the letter there is maybe thirty percent or twenty percent is about the Commission’s 15 accomplishment and the rest is about a past Chairmen person recommendation, which of 16 course he’s entitled too. However, the leadership is about supporting the peers that work with 17 you and then we worked along with yourself and we provided yourself and the whole 18 Commission with our long hours and numerous comments. We don’t have to be recognized but 19 there was lots of work during this year and there were a lot of accomplishments. Like for 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. example, I can say that of… There are two prior turbulent years when pretty much there were 1 multiple fights between the Commissions and the Council. This was the first time, a normal 2 year, where pretty much you had a very good relationship with the Mayor and then pretty 3 much the process was working as it should have. And this was maybe because of your personal 4 relationship but you know, I don’t care. There were no disagreements between our 5 Commission and the Council and I think that this was very good and a positive element from my 6 perspective. I don’t think that maybe this has to be put in this way in this letter but I’m just 7 saying this because now it’s recorded in the meeting minutes so you have kudos from me for 8 this accomplishment. From my perspective it was a step in the right direction but nevertheless, 9 from the perspective of the balance, I think that the Commission accomplished certain items 10 and maybe you could take some time and maybe rebalance this letter so it would just should 11 more of what we’ve done and that maybe can serve this purpose better. Thank you. 12 Chair Lauing: Commissioner Monk. 13 Commissioner Monk: I am not lite up. 14 Chair Lauing: Oh, sorry. It was on from before. Commissioner Waldfogel. 15 Commissioner Waldfogel: Thanks. Yeah, I think that this letter has a combination… I mean it has 16 some good ideas. I think that some of these topics should be discussed at our retreat at some 17 time in the future. I mean I am completely comfortable with this going out as a letter from 18 Chair [Note – former Chair] Alcheck to the Council. Probably not a letterhead but just going out 19 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. as a letter from the Chair [Note – former Chair] but I think that the letterhead implies that this 1 is a consensus work product. And I don’t think that this process is leading us to that so I mean 2 I’m perfectly comfortable with this going out as a letter but not as a Commission work product. 3 Chair Lauing: Just a couple comments. I think Commissioner Summa did note the clarification 4 that we just looked at those two elements and I think a lot of us, if not all of us, thought that it 5 was a very compressed time frame but that was the deal that we were dealt. On the content of 6 the second page, I’m just… I was wondering as I read it two or three times about… I can 7 understand why we need to read that but I can’t quite understand why they need to read that. 8 So, it’s sort of very worthwhile, I just don’t know what particularly at this time they can take 9 action on there to help with any of those implementations. The only other thing that I would 10 wonder is if based on experience of not only the year but past if there were two or three key 11 goals that we… excuse me, that you might want to talk about that look key. Particularly since 12 we’re taking it as a spring [unintelligible] that the… the Comp. Plan or maybe they are obvious 13 so that we don’t need to but that would be my comments. Commissioner Alcheck. 14 Commissioner Alcheck: Ok look, no disrespect is meant by this change I guess. Again, I wish I 15 had… It was communicated better in the Staff report to the plan. Again, the dynamic is shifting 16 on this Commission, right? We have new leadership and the new leadership has the prerogative 17 to do whatever they want and I wish you luck. I’ve been apart of five memos, some of them 18 were just lists of what we reviewed. I don’t particularly find value in PowerPoint presentations 19 that are just lanky lists and I don’t find value in memos that regurgitate what we’ve done. And 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. that’s why I didn’t spend a lot of time on this memo articulating to Council every little item we 1 reviewed this year. I wanted to stay high level. 2 And I meant the second section, which I will call things that I think… Not just us should consider 3 but Council might want to consider and/or endorse. And the reason why is because we pay a lot 4 of lip service and I’m using that term because I feel very strongly that sometimes it is lip service 5 to this notion that we want to take on more. We want to be more helpful, they want us to do 6 more, we want to be more effective. Five and a half years and we haven’t reviewed our process 7 on this Commission and hopefully the next two weeks from now we will get a chance to do it. 8 Barring any motions to sort of undermined that approach in a timely fashion. Hopefully, if it 9 does not happen in two weeks, it happens in the calendar year 2018 but my point here is this 10 idea of the Advance Planning Subcommittee is a way for some Commissioners to participate in 11 the process of agenda setting in advance. Sitting down for example with Staff and saying say 12 you bring… We… Not a few weeks ago we had an interaction with Staff where a lot of us were 13 not happy with the report. I’m talking about the downtown parking study, we rejected it 14 unanimously despite most of us believing that the recommendation was probably the right 15 recommendation; that’s not a good result. If Commissioner Waldfogel and Commissioner 16 Gardias and Commissioner Rosenblum met four times a year with Staff as they prepare items in 17 advance and said you know when you bring this parking study, these are some of the things 18 that I assume most of my fellow Commissioners would be really interested in. For example, let’s 19 engage with the retail community in a way that they show up. Then when we get that meeting, 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. we have a more effective meeting. That is the idea of the Advance Planning Subcommittee, it 1 does require more time commitment on our behalf. It is a suggestion and I’m sharing it with 2 Council because when I wrote this, I didn’t know that I would still be on this Commission and I 3 was trying to give input on how I thought it could improve. 4 Considering tonight that we actually didn’t have a discussion on ways we could improve, I’m 5 glad that I sort of went out on a limb because we didn’t get it… I want you all to know that 6 when I approached this today, and I had this conversation with Assistant Director Lait, I said my 7 reasoning for putting this item after item three was very specific. We had a whole conversation 8 during our pre-Commission meeting. The reasoning was that if there were any really good 9 suggestion that came out of our discussion and consensus around them, my intention was to 10 include them in this letter. The decision tonight to essentially not have that discussion made it 11 very difficult for me to determine consensus on other suggestions and that’s why there isn’t 12 going to be a second draft. It’s too complicated of a process for seven people to write a Chair’s 13 memo which is why I didn’t offer that when I asked for input on how this should get written. 14 The second recommendation was about an Implementation Management Subcommittee. All 15 too often we hear from people, those dentists that couldn’t find parking in Evergreen Park still 16 can’t find parking. They thought that were supposed to get ten permits per business but they 17 only got one or some weird scenario. I think there should be an avenue for them to approach 18 the Commission and maybe that’s what the subcommittee who could then determine hey, 19 actually there’s an issue here, we should agendize it. This is for us to help Staff and to help our 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Community figure stuff out. If Staff likes it, if you like it, if the City Council likes it, it’s just some 1 ideas. 2 The final one was the idea of continuing education and I’m reiterating it now only because I… 3 The… Staff has paid… Excuse me, the City has funded my participation in the League of 4 California Cities Planning Commissioners Academy. They will pay for you to go. I believe we 5 should commit to getting smarter. I can’t tell you… I can tell you, I got a number of emails last 6 week… actually on Friday of last week saying hey, what’s the story with this bike bridge… This 7 East Palo Alto bike bridge? I said it’s not East Palo Alto bike bridge, it’s a bike bridge that’s going 8 to connect us to the Bay Lands over San Antonio. Somebody responded no, no, Mr. Alcheck, 9 there is an East Palo Alto bike bridge and I was like awe, let me look into it. Only to find out 10 over the weekend that there’s a bike bridge going up between Embarcadero on-ramp and the 11 University on-ramp. We spent… I started this Commission with an item reviewing a bike bridge 12 design. The notion that East Palo Alto went through the entire process of selecting their design 13 and now breaking ground tomorrow on that bike bridge without us even knowing it is so 14 ludicrous to me. We are not engaged in our community. The California League of Cities is one 15 example for us to reach out. The idea that we will commit each of us to spend some time 16 learning what’s going on here, what’s going on there and knew was my third recommendation. 17 And again, take it or leave it. I’m sharing it with you because based on my experience it seems 18 like a good recommendation. It is not out of a disrespect for any of the hard work you have 19 done this year in supporting this Commission and maybe nobody will like them. I wouldn’t be 20 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. surprised if none of this happened but as an outgoing Chair and possibly an outgoing 1 Commissioner, I want to put it out there because I believe I do have a good relationship with 2 Council. And I do believe that the experience as sitting as Chair provides you with an interesting 3 and unique view on the way this area operates and I believe that’s why we allow these letters. I 4 think we create these letters because we want feedback from an outgoing leader because 5 maybe that’s going to be more… maybe that could be helpful. And so again, I apologize, I didn’t 6 mean to offend anybody. I was considering inclusion of recommendations based on the 7 discussion we would have had tonight about process changes but we didn’t have it. And so 8 that’s why the format, in theory, could have considered. The other issue is it’s December 13th, 9 it’s… We lost that meeting between that we were supposed to have while I was still 10 theoretically Chair. So, again, there are two items that kind of went into this that made it very 11 difficult and to that extent, I hope that all of you will sort of appreciate that nuance but that’s 12 all I have to say. I look forward to hearing a response from City Council Members when they get 13 the memo and I appreciate again, all the hard work that everyone on this Commission put in 14 this year. 15 Chair Lauing: Ok. Thank you. Are there any other comments? 16 Commission Action: Report was forwarded to Council. 17 [The Commission revisited Item Two after hearing Items Three and Four.] 18 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Approval of Minutes 1 Public Comment is Permitted. Five (5) minutes per speaker.1,3 2 3 Chair Lauing: Ok, moving quickly, moving quickly now. Approval of minutes, there are no 4 minutes. 5 Committee Items 6 Chair Lauing: Any Committee items? There are no Committees at this point. 7 Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 8 Chair Lauing: Commissioner questions, comments or announcements? The one that I actually 9 wanted to ask is what is the statues moving through on the downtown parking because we did 10 vote… I was actually going to send you a note about that but I figure we could get it tonight. I 11 heard it was actually postponed from going to the Finance Committee which means that it’s 12 kind of in the abeyance relative to our communication. 13 Mr. Lait: So, I have it on the calendar to go to the Finance Committee on February 6. 14 Chair Lauing: Ok. Any other comments, questions, announcements? 15 Commissioner Gardias: Yeah, quick question. 16 Chair Lauing: Commissioner Gardias. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Gardias: Yes, I mean this was interesting what Mike was saying about the bike 1 bridge of 101. 2 Commissioner Alcheck: There’s a new bike bridge that they are breaking ground on tomorrow 3 that… More people with think that it’s a Palo Alto bridge than the one we voted on, on Monday 4 night, which just goes (interrupted) 5 Commissioner Gardias: That’s fine and do you know where it is? I mean is it possible that Staff 6 could just gather us and provide some materials for us. 7 Commissioner Alcheck: It starts near the HomeDepot parking lot and it terminates at the 8 Newell Street which is on the other side of the Newell Street bridge. 9 Mr. Lait: I mean if you Google it, it will… There will be a diagram on the internet. 10 Commissioner Gardias: Yeah, I was just wondering how… If there was any proposal to connect it 11 without neighborhood. If this is a bike route that’s only going to contain for Palo Alto because 12 there was a… Because they have some other trail that was along the creek but it seemed to me 13 that now if it’s along HomeDepot but on which side? On the backside of the HomeDepot, right? 14 Commissioner Alcheck: Yeah, it’s on the East Bay Shore. 15 Commissioner Gardias: So, it goes… It looks like it goes to the City whole as opposed to maybe 16 going to the Bay Lands. 17 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Commissioner Alcheck: I think it’s (interrupted) 1 Commissioner Gardias: I was just wondering how it (interrupted) 2 Commissioner Alcheck: Just straight across. It’s not complicated and it actually looks somewhat 3 similar to the bridge we [unintelligible] Tuesday. 4 Commissioner Gardias: Really? They copied it, ok. 5 Commissioner Alcheck: No, I don’t think they copied it. I think (interrupted) 6 Chair Lauing: It was discussed at Council this week, compared at pricing and so on. It’s a little bit 7 different. 8 Commissioner Gardias: Alright, thank you. I was just wondering. 9 Chair Lauing: Any others? Alright, we stand adjourned, thank you. 10 Adjournment 11 10:41pm 12 _______________________ 1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair, provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually. 2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers. 3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers. Palo Alto Planning & Transportation Commission 1 Commissioner Biographies, Present and Archived Agendas and Reports are available online: 2 http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/gov/boards/ptc/default.asp. The PTC Commission members are: 3 Chair Michael Alcheck 4 Vice Chair Asher Waldfogel 5 Commissioner Przemek Gardias 6 Commissioner Ed Lauing 7 Commissioner Susan Monk 8 Commissioner Eric Rosenblum 9 Commissioner Doria Summa 10 11 Get Informed and Be Engaged! 12 View online: http://midpenmedia.org/category/government/city-of-palo-alto or on Channel 26. 13 Show up and speak. Public comment is encouraged. Please complete a speaker request card 14 located on the table at the entrance to the Council Chambers and deliver it to the Commission 15 Secretary prior to discussion of the item. 16 Write to us. Email the PTC at: Planning.Commission@CityofPaloAlto.org. Letters can be 17 delivered to the Planning & Community Environment Department, 5th floor, City Hall, 250 18 Hamilton Avenue, Palo Alto, CA 94301. Comments received by 2:00 PM two Tuesdays preceding 19 the meeting date will be included in the agenda packet. Comments received afterward through 20 2:00 PM the day of the meeting will be presented to the Commission at the dais. 21 Material related to an item on this agenda submitted to the PTC after distribution of the 22 agenda packet is available for public inspection at the address above. 23 Americans with Disability Act (ADA) 24 It is the policy of the City of Palo Alto to offer its public programs, services and meetings in a 25 manner that is readily accessible to all. Persons with disabilities who require materials in an 26 appropriate alternative format or who require auxiliary aids to access City meetings, programs, 27 or services may contact the City’s ADA Coordinator at (650) 329-2550 (voice) or by emailing 28 ada@cityofpaloalto.org. Requests for assistance or accommodations must be submitted at least 29 24 hours in advance of the meeting, program, or service. 30