HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-08-30 Planning & transportation commission Summary Minutes_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Planning & Transportation Commission 1
Action Meeting Agenda: August 30, 2017 2
Council Chambers 3
250 Hamilton Avenue 4
6:00 PM 5
6
Call to Order / Roll Call 7
6:05pm 8
9
Chair Alcheck: Ok, ladies and gentlemen I'd like to call to order the August 30th Planning and 10
Transportation Commission (PTC) meeting. Secretary would you please take roll? 11
12
Yolanda Cervantes, Administrative Assistant: Yes. Chair Alcheck, Commissioner Gardias, 13
Commissioner Lauing, Commissioner Monk, Commissioner Rosenblum, Commissioner Summa, 14
and Vice-Chair Waldfogel. Everyone present. 15
16
Chair Alcheck: Thank you. 17
18
Oral Communications 19
The public may speak to any item not on the agenda. Three (3) minutes per speaker.1,2 20
21
Chair Alcheck: Before I open up for Oral Communications I actually don't have a card any cards 22
yet so if there are any staff could just bring them up. I just want to take a moment for I'd like to 23
take a moment of silence to for those of you interested in maybe saying a prayer or 24
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
contemplating the just utter devastation in Houston. What we do up here is related to city 1
planning and on my way here tonight I mean I was just listening to the tragic story so if we 2
could just take a quick moment and then we'll continue with our meeting. Ok, thank you. 3
4
I don't have any cards for Oral Communications. Oh, I do. Thank you. I have one Rita Vrhel, is 5
that right? And you have five minutes. 6
7
Rita Vrhel: Good evening. 8
9
Chair Alcheck: Three minutes, excuse me. 10
11
Ms. Vrhel: So I just wanted to make a or two comment on last week's meeting. Steve Levy's 12
letter was not included for public review and yet when the Commissioners were discussing 13
whether residents should be involved in the train discussions some Commissioners reassured 14
other Commissioners that all residents were being treated equally and all voices had the same 15
strength and yet the letter was not in the packet so the public could not review it and it was 16
quoted four times by two different Commissioners. So I feel like my voice was not as loudly 17
heard. I don't know that I was given; I mean I was given an opportunity to speak and I think I 18
said something. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
The other thing was that there was a very interesting procedural error which was called out by I 1
believe one of the public members that a Motion was made and then a second was made and 2
then amendment was made to the Motion that had not been voted upon. So I don't know how 3
often that happens or not, but I do think that a little more care needs to be taken. Thank you. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. 6
7
Agenda Changes, Additions, and Deletions 8
The Chair or Commission majority may modify the agenda order to improve meeting management. 9
10
Chair Alcheck: At this time staff or anyone else are there any agenda changes, additions or 11
deletions to report? Ok. 12
13
City Official Reports 14
1. Assistant Directors Report, Meeting Schedule and Assignments 15
16
Chair Alcheck: Would the Assistant Director please, can we please have the Directors Report? 17
Or the Assistant Director’s Report? 18
19
Jonathan Lait, Assistant Director: Yeah. [Unintelligible] couple of quick updates. One is I've 20
noticed on your in your packet Tab 1 that your pending items, your tentative future agenda 21
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
items that list is actually out of date. So we'll send you an updated one via email and make sure 1
these are corrected for the future agenda. And then next Tuesday the City Council will take up 2
the Office Cap Interim Ordinance and have a discussion about how to regulate, give staff some 3
guidance on a permanent ordinance regarding that topic. And also on September 16th there 4
will be a Rail Committee meeting at the Art Center. That's on Saturday and it goes from 10:00 5
to 2:00 and we would need to know if Members of the Commission plan on attending that 6
meeting and if we're going to end up with more than a quorum we would need to post it. So if 7
you can send emails to myself or Yolanda to us know if you're going to attend that meeting. 8
We’d appreciate it. Thank you. 9
10
Chair Alcheck: Actually would, is there any update on the item we reviewed last week regarding 11
this topic? 12
13
Mr. Lait: Yes. We have that on the Council's agenda for discussion on Tuesday and so yeah, [it 14
is]. 15
16
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I for some reason I thought there was a subsequent policy meeting. 17
18
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Hillary Gitelman, Planning Director: Yeah the Rail Committee of the Council had a meeting and 1
formulated a recommendation so that Council on Tuesday will consider your recommendation 2
and the recommendation of the Rail Committee. 3
4
Chair Alcheck: Ok. 5
6
Study Session 7
Public Comment is Permitted. Five (5) minutes per speaker.1,3 8
2. Presentation from Santa Clara County and Discussion Regarding Initial Traffic Study 9
Findings Related to the Stanford General Use Permit (GUP) 2018 Application 10
(Continued From July 26, 2017) 11
12
Chair Alcheck: Let's move on to the study session. There is a presentation from Santa Clara 13
County on the discussion regarding the initial traffic study findings related to the Stanford 14
General Use Permit (GUP). 15
16
Hillary Gitelman, Planning Director: Thank you, Mr. Chair and Commissioners; I'm Hilary Gilman 17
the City's Planning Director and it’s my pleasure to introduce Kirk Girard the Planning Director 18
for Santa Clara County and his team. They have agreed to join us for what is really kind of an 19
unusual preview of an analysis that's going to be incorporated into the draft Environmental 20
Impact Report (EIR) for Stanford's new GUP, General Use Permit proposal. The draft EIR isn't 21
due out until the end around the end of September (interrupted) 22
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Rosenblum: Can I interrupt? Before we start this I think there are at least two 2
recusals. So I need to recuse myself. My wife works at Stanford and I know that Commissioner 3
Lauing’s (interrupted) 4
5
Commissioner Lauing: Ditto for myself. 6
7
Commissioner Rosenblum: I don’t know if there are any others. 8
9
Ms. Gitelman: Ok. I apologize for jumping the gun there. We’ll let you… 10
11
Chair Alcheck: Thanks for reminding us. Is there someplace they can hang out? 12
13
Ms. Gitelman: Yeah, the back room is occupied this evening so it’ll have to be in the lobby I’m 14
afraid. 15
16
Chair Alcheck: There’s a community center room maybe [unintelligible]. Sorry, please continue. 17
18
Ms. Gitelman: Ok, so we've noticed this as a study session in the hopes that the County and the 19
folks involved in this analysis will give the Commission a brief overview of the methodology 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
that's being used for this analysis. You had a lengthy report provided to you. This is your 1
opportunity to preview some questions that you might later raise in the context of our 2
development of a comment letter on the draft EIR. We typically take about an hour for the 3
study sessions, but I think given the length of your agenda if the Commission wants to motor 4
through this faster that's entirely up to you. With that I'm I’ll pass the baton to Kirk Girard and 5
get their presentation on the screen and ask them to move expeditiously through their 6
overview. 7
8
Kirk Girard, Director of Development and Planning, Santa Clara County: So my name's Kirk 9
Girard, I'm Director of Development and Planning for the County and I want to thank you all for 10
giving us this opportunity. We understand that the traffic analysis for this project is very 11
technical, has a lot of information, and our hope is by giving an overview of the technical work 12
that's going to form the foundation of our draft environment impact analysis for traffic to you 13
that it will help you understand the approach that’s been taken, the information that we have 14
available to us in making our system, and that ultimately you'll be able to give us better insight 15
and perspective on how this project may affect the transportation infrastructure around your 16
city. 17
18
This is timely because three minutes ago I thought I might be giving this presentation. [Greg 19
Glickman] who is our engineering consultant that did the peer review for these technical 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
reports just walked in the room so I won’t have to give the presentation myself. I really want to 1
just express our interest in getting your comments, having you understand the materials, and 2
then meaningfully participate in the draft EIR process. Hillary mentioned we're planning on 3
publishing the draft EIR in two to three weeks. We'll have a 60 day comment period and during 4
that time we’ll be continuing to reach out to your staff in explaining the EIR and soliciting 5
ultimately your comments that would be considered as part of the final EIR. 6
7
To put this where we are in perspective Stanford made application at the end of last year. We 8
did the notice of preparation announcement in January. We received your City's comments not 9
long I think maybe February/March time. We've been analyzing the technical studies that 10
we're going to provide an overview to you and preparing the draft EIR and then we'll enter in 11
the draft EIR evaluation and public input phase after that. So we have representatives from 12
Stanford, we have representatives from Fehr & Peers that did the technical analysis on behalf 13
of Stanford, and then as I mentioned [Greg Glickman] is going to be providing the overview 14
presentation is under contract with the County as in our role as lead agency to do peer review 15
of the documents. So with that introduction I’ll that Gregg start unless there’s any more 16
questions or if there's any questions of me. Ok. 17
18
[Greg Glickman/Glishman?]: Hello. Kirk’s introduced me, I’m [Gregg Glickman/Glishman] I’m 19
with [A Com]. I'll be walking through and hopefully in a concise way what analysis has been 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
done and kind of the background and the process that was used. How do I change the slide? I 1
got it? I got it. No that’s up there. That's not, that’s fine. This isn't… that's me. 2
3
Ok, so first I'll start with an overview of the process. There are three documents that were 4
given to you and have been prepared. One is the report about Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) 5
and I'd like talk about that a little more detail in a minute. And then the second is Part 1 of the 6
Transportation Impact Analysis (TIA) and then Part 2 of the TIA. If you're looking to save time 7
you can read Part 2. It really covers the things that are talked about in Part 1 and if there's 8
anything you have questions about you can go back to Part 1 and look at some of the issues in 9
detail. Part 1 kind of covers the methodology. 10
11
The process that has been done is that the studies themselves have been prepared by Fehr & 12
Peers on behalf of Stanford. They're based on detailed transportation characteristics and 13
specific characteristics of Palo Alto and well Stanford and the surrounding area including Palo 14
Alto. Data is coming from some from the transportation surveys that Stanford does and then 15
we at [A Com] we’re part of a team that's led by ESA working on the EIR for the County and we 16
have peer reviewed all of the documents that have been prepared by Fehr & Peers. The things 17
we do in the peer review is the reason is to make sure that there's an independent assessment 18
of the data and the methodology and the findings independent from the applicant. We 19
confirmed that their work is consistent with general professional practices. We verify that the 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
data is provided is sufficient. We’d look at the methods and the assumptions and 1
interpretations to make sure that they are something that would produce sound results. And 2
we check to see that what was done is basically is current state of the art, state of the practice. 3
And finally we review the assumptions that were made using professional judgment. 4
5
So where we stand now is that we wrote a number of memos, peer review memos that we then 6
transmitted to the County. They sent to Stanford and Fehr & Peers. Fehr & Peers responded to 7
those. They made revisions for clarity, provide additional detail, and then there were some 8
requests that we had for clarification and other things. But the peer review is now complete. 9
We've finished that work and so we're here to talk about what the findings are. 10
11
So in the technical studies I'm going to start with VMT which is the Vehicle Miles Traveled. You 12
will notice that there are kind of two approaches to doing transportation analysis for 13
environmental documents. The reason we have done both is that there is a transition 14
happening statewide where there's a state law that was passed that said the traditional ways 15
are going to be phased out and we're going to focus more on VMT. So I’m going to spend a 16
little bit of time talking about what that is. The traditional method as I'm sure you all know is 17
Level of Service (LOS) and traffic congestion and it's done by analyzing the peak hour. And the 18
mitigations that you usually see from those kinds of analyses are things like adding additional 19
lanes at an intersection or changing signal timing or things like that; basically an approach to 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
add capacity to the system. What the state law and the new approach is to instead of 1
addressing expanding capacity it's to address reducing the number of cars and the length of the 2
trips. So that's what the VMT is and it's important to remember that there's two parts to that. 3
There's the vehicle and then there's the miles and adjusting either one of those can reduce the 4
overall average. 5
6
And what we're talking about when we say VMT is we're talking about the average daily per 7
capita VMT. So it's essentially saying ok if somebody is in a car they're in the car first of all and 8
the distance they've traveled is a factor in there. So if you shorten the trips it reduces the VMT. 9
If you take people away and they're not traveling in a automobile or a vehicle anymore and 10
they're using transit they're completely out of the equation. So we’ve, we’re looking at both of 11
those and in this case the majority of the reduction is because people are shifting completely 12
away from the auto mode and the drive alone mode. 13
14
So as I mentioned it's a daily average. The Fehr & Peers report took a look at the criteria that is 15
proposed by the Office of Planning and Research (OPR) that's what OPR is, their guidelines are 16
draft, they haven't been adopted yet. The County hasn’t adopted them yet, but as part of this 17
evolution the VMT analysis was done anyway. And there are several criteria that the California 18
Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) guidelines, the draft CEQA guidelines look for. The first one 19
is kind of a screening criteria that if the development that's being discussed is served by high 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
quality transit it's assumed that that development is not going to have an increase in VMT or a 1
significant increase in VMT and that is the case at Stanford. There's a definition of half a mile 2
from the transit service, the Marguerite service that runs through the campus is frequent 3
enough to meet that criteria and so essentially all of the academic area is covered either by 4
proximity to the Marguerite service or proximity to service out on El Camino Real, bus service, 5
plus the fact that the Caltrain station is there too. 6
7
But even though Stanford wouldn’t be in that situation their consultants went ahead and 8
looked at well what happens, what is the actual VMT in case that earlier screening criteria was 9
applied or just so people know what it is. And so the way that criteria works in the guidelines is 10
you take a look at what is the essentially the County’s the countywide VMT, the average, and 11
say ok, we'd like to have the development go be 15 percent below that. So that's the threshold. 12
You can see in the table in this case that for workers the average for the County is 16.1818 13
vehicle miles per capita. If you take 85 percent of that that's the threshold of significance and 14
then per the analysis that was done the average VMT for Stanford for the development is 4.53. 15
So rather than getting just a 15 percent reduction there's a 72 percent reduction. 16
17
And then for residents you also do this analysis, workers means people coming to the 18
development for the day to work. Residents meaning people who live in the development 19
where they’re and they either stay in the development or they leave. As you can see for 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
residents that the average is 17 miles, vehicle miles per day. Stanford comes in at 10.75 which 1
is rather than a fifteen percent reduction it's a thirty-eight percent reduction. And I wanted to 2
point out this analysis is conservative in the sense that Stanford has proposed to continue and 3
increase their Transportation Demand Management (TDM) efforts, but this analysis assumes 4
that they don't do that essentially. So this is a kind of a worst case analysis either Stanford 5
doesn't do the TDM or they for some reason are not working. 6
7
So with Stanford having such a low VMT we wanted to identify what some of the reasons for 8
that are. Part of it's their proximity to transit and their TDM program. Another part of it is that 9
they have on campus housing or near campus housing. They've added as you can see in the 10
slide about 2,500 bed/units depending on count. They get counted differently depending on 11
whether it's a student or a faculty/staff and then there's another 2,000 units coming. And in 12
terms of their success of their TDM program the graph shows that in 2000 they were up around 13
70 percent of the workers were driving alone to work and they have now gotten down under 50 14
percent for the last three well, three years or so or maybe a little longer. So that kind of wraps 15
up the VMT. 16
17
I’ll talk about the TIA now and as I mentioned the purpose of this is to identify physical 18
improvements that might be needed to increase the roadway and the intersection capacity. 19
The analysis was done based on the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority (VTA) 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
guidelines which is what is used in Santa Clara County for/by all the cities because they have to. 1
It does focus on the peak hour because it is looking at the worst case condition. And again it 2
assumes that Stanford doesn't take steps to achieve their net new commute trip standard. I 3
want to mention about the commute trips that's the terminology that's in the community plan. 4
Now that VMT has been introduced I wanted to point out that those are no it's no net new 5
vehicle trips. Person trips are ok because they're getting there on a bike or they're walking or 6
they're taking transit. 7
8
So the reason there are two parts is that it was just to expedite the production and review 9
process so that we didn't wait for the whole thing to be able to start the review. So there's no 10
real significance in the fact that there's Part 1 and Part 2. As I said Part 2 really has the meat of 11
analysis in it and Part 1 has the details. 12
13
Before preparing the analysis Fehr & Peers developed a method to define the study area and 14
criteria for which intersections would be included. They met with the local agencies including 15
City of Palo Alto to talk about the scope, talk about which intersections would be included, 16
what the criteria were, and then they responded by to those comments by revising their 17
methodology. The specific data that was used the trip generation was which is how many trips 18
are being made from to and from the development was used developed from actual data at 19
Stanford both their transportation surveys about where people live and where and as well as 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the cordon counts that are done as the part of the monitoring effort for the 2000 GUP. And 1
then trip distribution used those places of residence and the survey data including which mode 2
people said they used and then assignment was based on what local jurisdictions in those 3
coordination meetings had indicated and just existing conditions and how traffic moves in the 4
area. 5
6
So in terms of looking at facilities and the impacts on those facilities there were a number of 7
components that were looked at. The intersections there were can’t remember, 60-70 8
intersections, freeway LOS including what was happening at the ramps, transit delay, bicycle 9
and pedestrian quality of service. And those impacts were assessed both for the existing plus 10
project which was the 2018 horizon and then the future horizon was 2035. The significance 11
thresholds that were used to identify whether an impact was significant they were tailored to 12
the various jurisdictions including Palo Alto’s. Palo Alto’s happens to be on the slide right there. 13
Essentially if you go from LOS D to E or F or if you have an already E or F intersection if there's a 14
deterioration of service in a certain level. 15
16
There were six significant intersection impacts in 2018 and 21 and 2035. In most cases the 17
impacts were happening because there's a lot of growth in the background traffic or to get 18
them close to being significant and then adding the project tips them over the edge. And then 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
physical mitigations were identified where they were feasible and in some places they aren't 1
feasible. 2
3
So the proposed intersection mitigation approach that that Stanford has included in their 4
application is that they will continue to monitor their commute trips and to meet the no net 5
new commute trip goal. The campus cordon will continue to be credits as there is now for trips 6
that Stanford takes off, takes off the road around the campus that primarily comes in the form 7
of riders on Marguerite who aren't necessarily Stanford or destined for the Stanford campus 8
academic area. And then if that standard is not met the proposal is to that Stanford would pay 9
a per vehicle trip impact fee and that that fee would then be used to fund their fair share 10
contribution of either the intersection improvements or other measures, TDM type measures 11
that would reduce trips in the area. 12
13
For the freeways the there are some significant unavoidable impacts because the freeways are 14
already congested. In general the freeway congestion is a regional problem and it's difficult for 15
single individual development projects to mitigate that with physical improvements. But 16
however reducing demand is an effective way. It's the other way it's reducing the demand 17
rather than increasing the capacity. And the note proposed mitigation measure for the 18
intersections which is the no net new trip standard supports reducing demand on the freeways 19
as well. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
We’re almost at the end. For bicycle and pedestrian facilities and transit delay there were less 2
than significant impacts. The direct impacts were primarily at locations where intersection 3
improvements could be constructed. They wouldn't significantly change the conditions for 4
bicyclists and pedestrians or the transit travel time. So that's what was looked at in the TIA. 5
6
Separately from that Stanford has produced for the County or had Era a consulting firm analyze 7
the capacity of the bicycle and transit facilities. And up until now I've been talking about the 8
worst case and how Stanford wouldn't do it our analysis assumed that Stanford wouldn't do 9
their net new, no net new trip standard in their efforts. In this case of this transit capacity 10
analysis it's the opposite. It's really a check to see that if they do do the TDM efforts and 11
they're wildly successful is there enough room on Caltrain and on the bicycle facilities to handle 12
the additional traffic? 13
14
Neighborhood traffic there was a screening process to determine the neighborhoods to assess 15
and it was based on trip patterns. College Terrace and Crescent Park were both identified as 16
ones that needed to be looked at and through the analysis it was found that there was a less 17
than significant impact. And that wraps it up. I don't know Hillary how you want to do 18
questions or whatever. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ms. Gitelman: Yeah, I think we have time for some questions from the Commission after maybe 1
taking a public comment. I did want to just assure the Commission that we're going to engage 2
technical consultants to do our own technical review and deep dive on this material when the 3
draft EIR is available. So just kind of big picture of thoughts and comments and questions at 4
this point would be helpful. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: I'm sorry, really quickly just to respond that. When do you anticipate the draft 7
EIR to be available? 8
9
Mr. [Glickman]: The draft? 10
11
Mr. Girard: Two to three weeks. 12
13
Chair Alcheck: And the 60 day period you referenced earlier? 14
15
Mr. Girard: Would go through effectively through Thanksgiving. 16
17
Chair Alcheck: Ok. Alright I have a… I had a speaker card. Didn’t I have a speaker card? No 18
that’s the first one. I had a speaker card. Would that speaker please come up? Oh, here we 19
go. Thank you. Steve Woodward. You'll have five minutes. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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1
Steve Woodward: Great. Thank you very much. There's three things that I've heard so far that 2
concern me. I know virtually nothing about traffic analysis, but it appears to me that the VMT 3
analysis methodology does not consider local impacts at all. It concerns impact at the level of 4
the community or the town or the city. I should say I live in College Terrace. 5
6
Point two that the TIA analysis you'll see on Page 13 that the intersection of Stanford and 7
Bowdoin is described as unsignalized, which it is. It has only a stop sign, but the analysis by 8
virtue of the fact that it is unsignalized there is the analysis sidesteps any consideration of 9
traffic impacts at that intersection of which there are quite a few already. So I would urge the 10
Commissioners to consider extending the analysis to that at least one unsignalized intersection. 11
12
On I would also ask the Commission to consider on Pages 1179, I’m sorry 171 and 178. On 171 13
the there is a an estimate of an increase of 1,179 net new trips whereas on Page 178 the Traffic 14
Intrusion to Residential Environment (TIRE) analysis method concludes that the neighborhood 15
street impact increase would be less than 0.1 percent. Now if I was writing a scientific paper [at 16
one] time I got to that second statement I would make reference to the first statement and say 17
despite what you may have read on Page 171 we expect there to be no impact under the tire 18
analysis and again I apologize for not knowing more about this, but I think we're looking at the 19
same phenomena from two different perspectives and it's hard to see how those statements 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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could both be true. There is perhaps a way they're true, but it's not clear to me and I would ask 1
you to look very carefully at that. 2
3
Lastly one way that could be true is if Stanford Ave. was not considered a neighborhood street. 4
And there's and maybe there is some definition according to which it isn't. It does however 5
have a lot of people living on it and two elementary schools. So I would draw your attention to 6
Page 205 which I think is interpretable as suggesting that Stanford Ave. is not a neighborhood 7
street despite the presence of these schools and the multiple crossings. And I would also ask 8
you to consider where it says on 205 that College Terrace is not used to by Stanford employees 9
to access the campus to keep in mind not only the fact that Stanford Ave. is used very 10
frequently to access the campus, but also that there’s new the Mayfield development is going 11
up on the other side of College Terrace. Thank you very much. 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Thank you. My next, the next speaker is Fred Balin. 14
15
Fred Balin: Thank you. Quite a document. I got one in an extra in City Hall and this is really like 16
a primer on transportation issues, other work to do if you want to really dig into this. So great 17
to have a lot of the background here. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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In looking through it couple things come to my mind. Number one I think there was a 1
discussion that we wanted to have study in a wider range of hours rather than just peak hours. 2
And from what I read in here it looks like you've extended it by like a couple of hours in the 3
morning and in the afternoon and then you somehow can choose which time period you want 4
to use is my reading of this. So something to take a look at there. The TIRE index is something 5
called Traffic Intrusion to Residential Environment which we've seen in College Terrace before. 6
For I'm assuming there's data associated with that because we're going to want to study that 7
carefully because there are a lot of assumptions that go into that. So we'll get back to you on 8
that. 9
10
There's this different scenarios that are in this report and there is something called the no 11
project alternative. The no project alternative does not include the Stanford graduate housing 12
that's being built now, correct? So if you look on page, Packet Page 280 where it's called The 13
Fall 2008 no project vehicle generation estimates, trip generation estimates you see estimates 14
for trips in the chart. This is on page, Packet Page 280 and it doesn't include the housing. And 15
then if you go to the next very next page which is 281 which gives you the Fall 2035 no project 16
vehicle trip generation estimate which is kind of funny because now we put the Stanford 17
housing in there which would be done not too long from now, the graduate housing, but we're 18
now to 2035. But for some reason if you look at the two tables Table 5-3a on Page 280 and 19
Table 5-3b on 281 the total trips are exactly the same in both. The breakdown is different so 20
_______________________
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the trips in and out at both peak hours are exactly the same in the headings, the breakdown is 1
different. So I'm not sure what happened there if that's the way it's meant or if there is some 2
kind of assumed credit being given for other mitigations which by the way as part of this 3
because when you in addition to the no net new trips you get credits for things you're doing 4
elsewhere and Stanford has put in a whole bunch of other mechanisms for which they can get 5
credit. And that's in here and that needs to be looked at very carefully. It covers a whole bunch 6
of possible transportation improvements, possible infrastructure improvements so that's 7
something that you want to be aware of as this goes forward. 8
9
So anyway I'm curious about this table where the data is the same if that's not an error or if 10
there's something I don't understand about two tables on consecutive pages with the same in 11
and out transportation trip numbers. Ok, thank you very much. That’s all I have to say. 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Ok I have the last speaker card that I have is for Rita Vrhel. Vrhel, sorry. Rita 14
Vrhel. 15
16
Rita Vrhel: Rita Vrhel. So I don't live over in the college area, Terrace area, but I've been going 17
to the City Council meetings for a very long time and I remember Greg Schmidt saying what 18
about the cumulative effects? So you have one project at a time coming before you with these 19
very expensive very detailed traffic analysis which to me are just kind of all smoke and mirrors. 20
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I think people what they need to do is go sit in the neighborhood for a while and see how much 1
traffic you actually have. The College Terrace area is very impacted by Stanford traffic; so is the 2
Oregon Expressway, Page Mill, and El Camino. I mean I think I've heard that it's a gets a F rating 3
on the how long you have to wait. 4
5
So Stanford to my knowledge is putting on a lot of different projects. You probably know that 6
better than I do. They're putting them [oh in not over in] Palo Alto, but also in Menlo Park and 7
Redwood City is going to be a big campus. So to kind of sit here and say well there is nothing 8
we can do about the impacts on the freeway because what can one project do I think it's a little 9
disingenuous. Also I think the title or the term not significant impact means I don't live in the 10
neighborhood. And I really would encourage you to go and see these intersections and see 11
these neighborhoods at different times of the day. I know I live next to a church and when they 12
were getting their building permit there was no significant impact as always although this study 13
actually did find some significant impacts, but I think they were saying there really wasn't too 14
much they could do about it. 15
16
And the best traffic study is just to go and see what's going on. Take a chair, take a piece of 17
paper, take a clicker if you want, just sit, spend some time and I hope that all of you will do that 18
because this isn't the last Stanford project that's going to come up. It's not the last project 19
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that's going to come to you and many, many people in Palo Alto are really furious about the 1
amount of congestion and traffic which when they're sitting in it is not significant. Thank you. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. Alright, I'm going to open it up to Commissioners to ask 4
questions or comment on what we've heard tonight. And why don't we just follow a lighted up 5
strategy here. So if you would like to speak light up the board and I'll call you in the order that I 6
see. Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] Waldfogel. 7
8
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Thank you. I’d like to thank the consultants and members of the public 9
for… I’d like to thank you for the presentation. 10
11
So we have a 391 page report for less than a week and we have a pretty full agenda tonight so 12
there's really no reasonable way that we can assess whether the study is accurate or not. Over 13
the years we've seen numerous traffic studies claiming no impact and yet as Ms. Vrhel has told 14
us and actually as the report confirms traffic’s already unacceptable on many local roads and 15
freeways. So I mean even if this report follows the best industry practices I think we know that 16
20 year projections are very speculative and we also honestly don't know very much about trip 17
modality makes 20 years in the future. There's a lot of variables that are on the table right now. 18
19
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So I in my mind there's really only one key question here which is who owns the risk if this 1
study is wrong and the impacts are higher than forecast. That's really the key question that I 2
think we should be thinking about. And right now if Stanford is wrong the City takes the brunt 3
of the impact. There's a some mention of a vehicle fee, but I don't know what the size of that 4
is. I don't know whether that's significant. So what I would suggest I mean and until I know 5
how big that fee is what I’d suggest is that we look at some really powerful ideas on how to 6
guarantee performance so the City doesn't own the performance risk. I think that Stanford 7
should own the performance risk and I’ve actually proposed at Stanford post a pretty 8
substantial performance bond. Something in the one to two billion dollar range that would 9
guarantee performance to that standard. If Stanford meets the forecasted impacts no harm, 10
there's no payout. But if Stanford causes impacts then they forfeit the bond. Really simple. So 11
that way we would actually have a meaningful way to mitigate impacts. So is there a way to do 12
that? Is there a way for Stanford to own the risk of impact so this City doesn't own it? 13
14
Mr. Girard: Kirk Girard. I'll give you a short answer now, but we’ll consider this just input for 15
our draft EIR and final comments. On an annual basis we measure how much traffic goes in and 16
out of Stanford in an A.M. and a P.M. peak hour and we produced a report that says whether or 17
not that traffic volume exceeds the 2001 base level. Stanford's goal is to continue with that 18
program to demonstrate that they can grow without increasing traffic in and out of their 19
cordon. If they don't the this structure and this is the performance orientation is they have to 20
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invest in a program that will either reduce traffic in the impact area or mitigate the effect on 1
the intersections and road segments that are could potentially mitigate the problem. Now 2
there's a financial security issue and that's the bond, but the regulatory assurances if they don't 3
do that then we can revoke the use permit. And that is a powerful security if you will. We 4
don't have financial security in that respect, but we do have regulatory security and they are 5
entitled to pay their fair share of the impact to that intersection road segment. 6
7
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: But with all due respect it's not the impact on intersections it's more that 8
say Caltrain or transit needs another billion dollars of upgrade to support the number of trips 9
that they're generating. And I think that we need a format here where projects like this two 10
million plus square feet are providing guarantees to deliver system wide improvements not just 11
to mitigate improvements on in intersections. 12
13
Mr. Girard: I understand and there is complexity when you can only charge one developer for 14
their fair share, but as you know to get these large projects that will make a difference off the 15
ground you need a funding stack that is just staggering. I think we're working with your Public 16
Works staff to determine what projects might actually make a meaningful difference where 17
Stanford's fair share contribution could potentially get it over the finish line because it's those 18
projects that are feasibly implemented with the fair share contribution from Stanford that 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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would make a difference. And we want to inventory what those projects might be and have 1
them at the ready if in fact Stanford doesn't meet the TDM goals of the program. 2
3
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Great. Thank you. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: Ok, Commissioner Summa. Commissioner Summa. 6
7
Commissioner Summa: Thank you. Thank you everyone for your presentation and thank you to 8
members of the public who came to speak. And I agree with many of the concerns of members 9
of the public. I also live in College Terrace so I have kind of boots on the ground there with 10
traffic issues in our neighborhood and they certainly do exist. And the concerns of Stanford 11
Avenue that were expressed by one of the members of the public are very real I believe also. 12
13
I think performance bonds are very interesting ideas. And so I was wondering have any impact 14
fees been levied against Stanford based on the 2000 GUP for going over the trips allowed? 15
16
Mr. Girard: They haven't exceeded the baseline. 17
18
Commissioner Summa: So I go to I live close to Stanford I do a lot of things there and I notice 19
how many new specifically underground garages they've built in the last 10 years or so. So I 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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just logically and I'm not a traffic engineer, but logically I don't know why if they weren't getting 1
net new trips from all the very many sources of people that use Stanford on a daily basis or visit 2
it on a special occasion like tour buses I don't understand why they needed so many new 3
parking spots if they didn't have any net new trips. That just it's illogical to me, but maybe it's a 4
nuance of traffic engineering that I am not trained to understand. 5
6
So I also this was a really big thing to absorb in the short time that we had, but all these little 7
tabs are questions, specific questions I have about specific things and I don't think we'll get to 8
them all tonight because people will kill me. But I did want to thank the Mayor for his letter 9
which I thought which is that I think the first thing in here was a really great letter and it 10
brought up a point that I think is a very good on page, Packet Page 16 which expressed 11
skepticism concern about the traffic that these kinds of large projects will make and skepticism 12
that they're really being mitigated. I thought it was a very strong letter in many ways in support 13
of the community. 14
15
I also specifically had questions about the methodology used that only tests peak hours. 16
There’s a lot of people to go to Stanford in nontraditional peak hours for all different kinds of 17
uses. A lot of meetings, a lot of visitors to museums and stuff so I think the peak hour 18
methodology in and of itself is flawed and doesn't give us the true understanding of what's 19
going on there are. 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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1
So a few other things; there was also a calculation of trips based on square footage which to me 2
in the absence of understanding how different usages have very different trip generations I 3
don't know why you would calculate trip generations based on square feet. It's meaningless 4
and if you're comparing a heavily used facility to one where there's a 1,200 square foot lab with 5
two scientists in it. So that didn't make sense to me. 6
7
Let's see, so and a question for staff. After you we have our own consultant analysis of this will 8
it be coming back with that to the Planning and Transportation Commission (PTC) so we can 9
make more detailed comments? 10
11
Ms. Gitelman: What we hope to do is prepare a draft letter and calendar it for the PTCs review 12
and then the Council's review. So you'll review a draft and you can add or ask questions at that 13
time. 14
15
Commissioner Summa: Ok, because I'm not sure you want me to go through all my questions 16
now, but I'll concerns. I'll just highlight a few more. This colorful table was really confusing to 17
me because it shows how people are getting to Stanford from different locations including 18
walking and like there's a fair percentage there's a number of people that are walking from 19
Mountain View North of Central and Cupertino and like how I realize that’s probably self-20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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reported, but we know there aren’t people walking from that far away. So it makes me 1
wonder. And the Single Occupancy Vehicle (SOV) trips are very high in here. They're also very 2
high for Palo Alto actually. So I just wonder how accurate this graph is and maybe the problem 3
was it was self-reported. I don't know, but that didn't strike me as having very probable 4
usefulness at all. 5
6
And then I was wondering if the members of the public who spoke about specific areas in the 7
report that I didn't get to actually could send the Planning Commission so I can look at those 8
areas in more detail. And that's just a question from a suggestion for members of the public. 9
I’ll stop and look at other things and let someone else go. Thank you. 10
11
Chair Alcheck: Just I would encourage you to not communicate those comments. Put them in 12
an email and we can also send them to Council. Yeah. Ok, I have Commissioner Gardias. 13
14
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. Thank you for a presentation on thank you for the 15
comments to the members of public. So I have a we have a practice like this that after 16
questions or some comments from the public the presenter usually was responding if I can ask 17
or request pretty much that you go through those questions that were presented to you those 18
are very interesting technical questions and I hope that you can provide answers now. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Mr. Girard: Ok, I'll punt some of these because I don't know the answer and I think it's 1
important that we record them, but I'll do the best that I can. There was the intersection of 2
was it Stanford and Bowdoin was not signalized so it wasn't analyzed as one of the criterion of 3
intersections. And I'll say there's a good description of the approach to determining which 4
intersections were or were not used or evaluated. There was a screening criteria or screening 5
criteria were applied and over a hundred intersections were identified based on most of the 6
traffic volumes through them and the contribution from the project. They some were screened 7
out. There was a total of 95 finally chosen and those were analyzed in detail. I don't know how 8
Stanford and Bowdoin would stack up against the criteria that were used to determine which 9
intersections were most important to analyze and maybe Greg I’ll look to you can you add 10
anything to that? 11
12
Mr. [Glickman]: No I can't. I think that something that Fehr & Peers would need to answer. 13
Yeah, it's… 14
15
Mr. Girard: But we did go through an analysis to determine which intersections or were 16
analyzed and then in terms I’ll answer another question that came up about did we just look at 17
traffic generation and the impacts to intersection based on sort of square footage calculations 18
and correlations. And no these intersections had traffic counts associated with them and we 19
were out there with or I should say consultants were out there actually measuring peak hour 20
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traffic through the studied intersections. There was a what seemed to be a contradiction about 1
the total trips and those that affect neighborhoods and whether or not Stanford Avenue was 2
considered a neighborhood street or arterial and I don't know the answer to that question. 3
We’d have to do some more research I think to determine that. If anybody from Stanford or 4
Fehr & Peers could offer us an answer? 5
6
Ellen Poling, Fehr & Peers: Is this on? It's on? Ok. Hi, I'm Ellen Poling with Fehr & Peers. I'm 7
one of the several Fehr & Peers employees that have been working with Stanford on the 8
analysis. And hopefully I can clear up a couple of these things. I might not be able 9
[unintelligible]. Stanford Avenue/Bowdoin was included in the analysis as an unsignalized 10
intersection. So it was selected as one of the 95. As an unsignalized intersection it has a 11
different significance criteria and I don't believe we triggered that criteria in the analysis, but I 12
did want to clarify that it is in the analysis. 13
14
As to the neighborhood street impact assessment the apparent discrepancy between the two 15
pages I actually don't think I can answer that question, but I think the references that are being 16
made there are consistent and it has to do with how much traffic goes out the Bowdoin 17
gateway versus how much traffic turns left versus right or comes in from the left on the right on 18
Stanford Avenue and then how much of the traffic that goes to the I guess turning out of 19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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Stanford going to the left is going to filter through the neighborhood. So I'm fairly confident 1
that those numbers are consistent. I don't have it in front of me to talk further about that. 2
3
And then there was a question about the parking as well, all the underground parking 4
structures. Much of the new parking in the underground parking structures is replacing parking 5
that's lost on surface lots due to new buildings. So the net increase is not as great as it might 6
seem from all the parking construction that's going on. Is there anything else that maybe I can 7
help? 8
9
Mr. Girard: There was a question about the no project alternative and whether or not 10
Escondido Village (EV) housing was considered in the no project alternative. 11
12
Ms. Poling: Yes that's a potentially very confusing thing. These analyses get so long and look at 13
so many different scenarios. The EV housing is not in the 2018 scenario because strictly 14
speaking it won't be there in 2018. It's going to take several years for it to be built. That's why 15
for the 2018 baseline we don't have it in the baseline. In 2035 obviously by then it will be built 16
and it is in the baseline. We don't have a 2020 case. I mean we talk about the fact that it will 17
be built by about 2020, but we're not looking at a 2020 case so we had two different baselines. 18
The reason the trips in those two tables are the same is that the methodology based on square 19
footage which there are really good reasons to do it that way and we went through a lot of 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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different options for how to most accurately project trips and future trip generation we came 1
to the conclusion that due to the complexity of the campus it's best to look at the total trip 2
generation it actually generates now divide that by the total square footage and say that's a 3
rate that we can confidently say the campus generates trips at. And so the 2018 baseline 4
assumes all of the new of the 2000 GUP square footage is built and there is some remaining and 5
the 2035 baseline assumes the same thing. So the total trips generated for both of those 6
baselines before the new GUP are the same and that's why the total trips are the same, but 7
when the EV project comes online more of those trips would be residential. So there's some 8
complexity to it, but that's why the total trips is the same. Again without the 2018 GUP just the 9
completion of the current GUP the total new trips is the same in both bass lines, it's just that 10
more of them would be residential and fewer of them would be commercial, commuter in the 11
2035 baseline. So sorry I'm speaking very rapidly I’m trying to get through all my details. 12
13
Chair Alcheck: No, it’s ok. 14
15
Mr. Girard: I’d say there's one more technical one that I think and what I wanted to say is that 16
we have captured these questions and part of the purpose for here is just to get your first 17
impressions. We consider these first impressions. This is intended to supplement our outreach 18
to you and through this draft EIR process and we realize we'll get down to brass tacks when 19
we're working with you on the draft comment letter, your Public Works about potential 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
projects, and we see this as just the introduction to our effort. Try to draw the best input that 1
we can receive from you on the part of the project. But the one final technical question was 2
the issue of evaluating road capacity beyond just peak A.M. and P.M. commute hours. 3
4
Ms. Poling: Yeah that's something that has been a subject of a lot of debate and discussion not 5
just in Palo Alto and not just on this project or these projects that Stanford has put forth. We 6
all know that there is traffic outside of the peak hours, there's traffic all day long. Kind of 7
keeping with the traditional way of looking at the worst case the worst two hours of the day we 8
have done the analysis for the peak hours, but it's certainly acknowledged in the surveys that 9
Stanford does including the cordon counts show that there is there’s not not no traffic or no 10
traffic problems outside of those two peak hours, but it is worst during the peak hours. And 11
frankly over the years it's been very consistent that the two peak hours are generally 8:00 to 12
9:00 and 5:00 to 6:00. It's interesting how consistent that is and you can look at the data and 13
see that, but again we acknowledge that there is pain outside of those two peak hours. 14
15
Commissioner Gardias: Very good. Thank you very much for answering. I mean the reason that 16
I just wanted to use this occasion and when it's when the question is still hot, right? 17
18
Mr. Girard: No question. 19
20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Gardias: To get your response to those questions we always value the members 1
of the public attending our meetings so we want to just provide them the value of your 2
response. Thank you. 3
4
Ms. Poling: Sure. I appreciate the chance to. Thanks. 5
6
Commissioner Gardias: So if you don't mind I have two more questions. So when you were 7
presenting your slides which by the way we have not received as part of our package there is on 8
the page the same graph that shows the commuter percentage that drive alone rate it is steady 9
for the last couple of years. So there is no trend that downwards. There is no continuous 10
improvement as it should have been. So what’s the implication of this? I mean first of all why 11
is it happening and so I'd like to know why and then we can talk about the implications. 12
13
Mr. Girard: Yeah we haven't analyzed why. I don’t know if Greg if that's been part of your 14
work? 15
16
Mr. [Glickman]: No we have that one part of our work. So anything I say is going to be 17
somewhat speculative. I think it is somewhat common in these situations where you might hit 18
a plateau for a while. One possible cause of that is I think we all are aware that Caltrain is really 19
full and they don't have the capability of adding additional capacity right now in the commute 20
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
periods. The only thing they can do is people can go to work earlier and come home later or 1
something. So that could be a reason for that. There also is often some traffic and somewhat 2
follows the economic cycle. And to the extent that the last three or four years have been very, 3
very intense growth in the area there it just may be that there's more people and yeah, there 4
may be more trips. I don't know. 5
6
Commissioner Gardias: Right and it looks like something must have happened four years ago 7
that pretty much we cannot convince a larger population because this is just a percentage, 8
right? So (interrupted) 9
10
Mr. [Glickman]: Yes, this is a percentage of (interrupted) 11
12
Commissioner Gardias: So it means that the effect is that we have more cars on the street 13
driving alone that's the effect of this table, right? 14
15
Mr. [Glickman]: Well yeah, it doesn't reflect how many cars are doing it, but you could get that 16
number with an increased number of cars on the street and an increased number of transit 17
riders. If there's 10,000 more people coming and they still split the same way you're going to 18
get that number. So you’d see increased traffic outside of [unintelligible] but no net the cordon 19
counts that we do well, the cordon counts and the peak hour monitoring and reporting that we 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
do as we all we've discussed is focused on the peak hour. So that number isn't that's an all-day 1
I don't know if Robert, Robert’s the one who provided me with this graphic so I don't know if he 2
has (interrupted) 3
4
Robert Eckels, Fehr & Peers: Hi I'm Robert Eckels from Fehr & Peers. And so excuse me, so as 5
the drive alone has gone down and it has plateaued. They’re constantly changing their 6
programs, but they're also monitoring every year and they're looking to see whether they're 7
meeting their trip caps. So in a sense there's a little bit of a stasis right now in terms of the trip 8
cap, meeting the trip cap, and where the drive alone is. They know moving forward that they're 9
going to be generating more trips if they stay at this level. So they’re going to be looking at 10
different types of programs. There's right now they're using Caltrain, they're using the buses. 11
In the future they are they’ll look at different types. They use like the Dumbarton Express 12
which is kind of like the employees shuttles that some of the large tech companies use. So 13
Stanford hasn't done a lot of that because they've been able to use Caltrain and others. So 14
those are programs that they're going to look at. So they're going to be adding programs as 15
they move forward, but again they spin they get the monitoring. They're trying to keep that at 16
that level and so they develop, change the programs. I think you're speaking about how the 17
nature of travel is changing so they constantly monitor their people and they're trying to find 18
the programs that work for them. So it's a constant effort on their part with their TDM 19
programs. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Gardias: I understand, right? But it doesn't satisfy my engineering curiosity. I'd 2
like to just have a concrete answer if you don't mind, right? So I'd like to just ask you about the 3
homework. Just if you don't mind just please in your follow up report I would like to know the 4
answer for the question why. Why this trend going downward stagnated for the last four years. 5
6
Mr. Girard: Yeah. That's a fair question. I'll say that there is quite a discussion of all the 7
elements of the TDM program that Stanford has, is managing now. And my guess is we'll come 8
back to you with an answer that describes what specific interventions they’ve made in the last 9
four years that may or may not have driven that number down or kept it the same. So we do 10
feel we have insight into the elements that go into their TDM program when they apply them 11
what the effect is. 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Very good. So now once we have the question squared away we can just focus 14
on the opportunity because it will give you an opportunity of course to upgrade your mitigation 15
plan. 16
17
Mr. Girard: Yeah, that’s correct. That’s right. 18
19
Commissioner Gardias: So very good. Thank you very much. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Girard: Yes. 2
3
Commissioner Gardias: I have one more question if you don’t mind? So very quick. So you 4
included in your report a number of mitigations. Mitigations project and this is mainly funding. 5
You would just provide you’ve in many places you say that provide fair share of funding for a 6
variety of different projects. I would like to understand if just giving the economy leverage that 7
Stanford has I would like to understand if you considered funding or just putting pressure on 8
some specific projects versus other projects. And those specific projects from my perspective 9
would be those that support mass transportation in this area as opposed to widening ever 10
widening motorways that pretty much as we know doesn't have much of the effect. Thank you. 11
12
Mr. Girard: We are starting meetings with staff representing transportation and roads 13
departments in the project impact area where our analysis of traffic impacts have identified the 14
problem. We're now trying to line up the solution set and we see that it's a combination of 15
Stanford honoring the cordon count goals plus reducing impacts in the project areas plus 16
potential some intersection fixes because we realize that there's varying degrees of opinion 17
about how much you should spend in increasing capacity of the roadway versus getting cars out 18
of off the roadway. And we hope it as a part of the draft EIR input that we will have a set of 19
hard road improvement targets set up hard additional TDM projects that would reduce traffic in 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
the impact area plus Stanford's efforts at reducing their traffic volumes and trips. So that as we 1
go to final EIR we can communicate what Stanford will be doing within the campus, what 2
opportunities and available to reduce traffic demand in the impact area, and what potentially 3
are the road improvements that people could anticipate from the project. That's our goal and 4
we intend to get that input from people who are closest to the ground that are living with these 5
problems and understand them the most. Your jurisdiction, Menlo Park, San Mateo County, 6
etcetera. 7
8
Commissioner Gardias: Very good. Thank you very much for your answers thanks. 9
10
Ms. Gitelman: Mr. Chair if I can jump in for a minute? I'm conscious that our agenda is getting 11
off track here. Maybe we can hear the comments and questions from the rest of the 12
Commissioners, but refrain from an exchange or dialogue at this point. We’ll have other 13
opportunities to come back on this subject and any comment, in detail comments the 14
Commissioners have please send them to me. I’ll make sure that our consultants and our staff 15
who are reviewing the documents take them into consideration. 16
17
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. I appreciate that. I have one light left, Commissioner Monk. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Monk: So I understand that the staff and consultants are going to be doing a 1
review from the technical perspective and I just have three higher level questions that I think 2
the community would want to know answers to despite the direction we just received from the 3
Director. So if you feel like answering I appreciate it. 4
5
In regards to sort of what Commissioner Summa mentioned earlier about the no new net trips 6
methodology and also wanted to echo speaker Fred Balin's comments on that as well. The 7
answer that I'd like to hear from you is whether or not the project would lengthen the amount 8
of time during the day when traffic is at peak. There didn't seem to have information on daily 9
traffic volumes or peak spreading in the report and this was a question that the City had posed 10
in its comments on the notice of preparation. So really will there be longer than just one peak 11
hour in the morning and one in the evening? Or instead would we have the same level of 12
congestion spread across much of the morning and the afternoon? 13
14
Mr. Girard: Keep it so short response I don't think we know in quantitative terms how much the 15
spread of the peak hour traffic would affect off peak hours, but so we'll take that as a question 16
and we know that that was a part of your original notice of preparation comment. So consider 17
that we've heard it. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Monk: Thank you. Second question also goes towards the analysis about really I 1
didn't see much in the way of contributing towards grade separation. I know Commissioner 2
Gardias just mentioned that in regards to mass transit so I'm specifying it more in terms of 3
grade separations so with the increase of frequency in train service and traffic volumes in the 4
future we're anticipating significant additional congestion at Charleston, Meadow, Churchill and 5
Palo Alto rail crossings unless they’re grade separated. And referring to Page 174 of our packet 6
you’re calling it Intersection 58 you agree to contribute your fair share towards Alma and 7
Charleston, but there isn't any mention of grade separations. So just wanting to know why that 8
wasn't included and if you have plans to address that? We’d like to know Stanford is going to 9
pay its fair share towards grade separating Caltrain. 10
11
Mr. Girard: We don't have that answer yet. That's part of our investigation. I think we've 12
identified candidate projects for mitigation, but to be able to say that those are our sort of 13
target mitigations I can't say from this point. But I will say that one of the premises is that in 14
the hierarchy of mitigation if Stanford is successful in not increasing cordon counts this is the 15
current proposal then they would not be contributing to infrastructure improvements including 16
grade separation. So first objective is to not increase traffic from this project off the campus 17
during the peak hours and then if that fails try to determine if cars can be removed from the 18
impact area to below baseline levels through other interventions. The third tier of intervention 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
would be actual physical infrastructure improvements to increase the capacity of the road at 1
the peak hours. So I think that's just an important architecture of the mitigation program. 2
3
It is the program that has been in effect since the 2000 GUP was approved and this proposal is a 4
continuation of that program. So even at the point we have a final EIR I don't think we'll be 5
able to say with certainty that this money would be deposited to contribute to this project 6
because of this hierarchy of mitigations in the architecture of the mitigation program. It may 7
not be a particularly satisfying answer, but we are like I say this is work in progress and if there 8
are pivotal projects that would make a significant difference may generate traffic below 9
baseline [and in one] perspective almost pre-mitigate impacts those might be considered as a 10
candidate mitigations, but it's too early to say. But exactly the kind of input you're presenting 11
this intersection and grade separation is really important to us is exactly the sort of feedback 12
we're looking for. 13
14
Commissioner Monk: Well it's a big issue for the community and I appreciate you looking at it 15
deeper. I just don't follow the logic in your report on Page 178 where there's going to be over 16
3,000 new housing units and also if your if the status quo is maintained that's also going to be 17
adding 3,000 new trips. How you can say that there will be a less than significant impact on 18
transit I just not following the logic there. And I don't know if other folks agree with that or not 19
so having that as an area to focus on would be important. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Also I just would like to throw it out there and I don't know if the PTC agrees with me on what 2
your statement was on your priority areas. You do say set forth in… it's on Page 172 that 3
priority is going to be given to other entities trip reduction programs over intersection 4
improvements. So that's what you had just stated and I'd rather see it reversed and I don't 5
know if the PTC shares that viewpoint, but that's what I would advocate for. 6
7
And then lastly I just wanted to sort of reiterate what Ms. Vrhel was saying about the shared 8
frustration on traffic and congestion and the fact that there's various projects spanning within 9
our City and neighboring cities and I think that there could be some possible mitigation to the 10
freeways. And I think looking at your map your graph on Page 45 or Packet Page 44. I guess 11
Packet Page 45 refers to 44. It gives the percentages. I think if you had numbers in there of the 12
actual drivers whatever you call the folks that make up these percentages to see where they're 13
coming from and see any trends in various areas you might be able to offer some mitigation 14
methods on the freeways. Thank you. 15
16
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. I'd like to just take a second to thank you for coming and sharing 17
this presentation with us. I think this exercise is valuable. I'm sure that many of our sort of 18
comments and thoughts on this are going to inform the comment letter that our City prepares 19
and our own study which I think we all look forward to sort of seeing our analysis as well. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
I won’t ask you any questions because we do have such a full agenda tonight, but I will reiterate 2
sort of two comments which is that it does seem like you've hit a wall in reducing SOV rates. 3
And look, it's nice to have an institution that takes this as seriously as you do and I'm sort of 4
hoping that there is some magic trick that you pull out. I mean I understand that some of the 5
Commissioners tonight really wanted to know why and I think that's a big question. I'm hopeful 6
that there is something we can pull out of some new approach because it would be nice to see 7
that break continue to decline. 8
9
And I that graph that Commissioner Summa raised and sort of pointed out the one with the 10
multi colors that shows the number of SOV riders, percentage of SOV ridership from the various 11
towns look it's quite telling that in Stanford nearly 50 percent are in their cars to get to 12
Stanford. That strikes me as a real opportunity. You guys it seems to me that Stanford is 13
grappling with the very commonly referred to problem as the last mile. And I look forward to 14
sort of seeing how they, we that you grapple with that particularly in Stanford I imagine there's 15
a way in within to create an opportunity to kind of capture those SOVs. And I think as it relates 16
to Palo Alto the same percentage or a greater percentage exists there and I wonder what could 17
be accomplished if there was some shuttle system that came into Palo Alto. I think one 18
important item that excluded from this graph is the number of individuals. So Portola Valley for 19
example unsurprisingly has north of 85 percent SOV traffic, right? Are there, but if it's only 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
eight people? If six of the eight people are in their cars then you're not going to create so that 1
for me was missing in the and it might be in there I just didn’t, but it would be and I imagine 2
that there is a that the bulk of them, bulk of staff exists in sort of close proximity. It would be 3
nice to us, nice to see them captured. 4
5
Ok, I'm going to leave it at that. I think then the next step is our process is what a meeting? A 6
meeting scheduled once you've come up with a draft, is that right? 7
8
Ms. Gitelman: That's right. It'll probably be late October. We haven't picked the date yet, but 9
we'll work on that shortly. 10
11
Chair Alcheck: Ok. 12
13
Mr. Girard: And we're happy to come back as the lead agency with our consultants for that 14
meeting. 15
16
Chair Alcheck: Ok, there I have one final question from Commissioner Summa. 17
18
Commissioner Summa: Thank you very much. I did want to ask a question about Packet Page 19
120 the worker population growth chart. Am I correct in reading that that there will be 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
somewhere between 10,000 and 11,000 new people, workers on campus by 20… from between 1
2018 and 2035? 2
3
Mr. Girard: I perhaps I can get help from this, but my recollection is that the total population 4
increase on campus and to campus is between 9,000 and 10,0000 between 2018 and 2035. Not 5
that that number is wrong, but that it's in the ballpark without referring to the particular graph. 6
7
Commissioner Summa: So the 49,428 total is not the total? 8
9
Mr. Girard: I'm sure it is, but… 10
11
Ms. Gitelman: It's the total not the increase. That table’s showing one column for the increase 12
and then the next column is the total so. 13
14
Commissioner Summa: Ok, thank you for clarifying that. Thank you. 15
16
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you again and that will conclude this study session. I would invite staff 17
to prepare for Item Number 3. And why don’t we actually why don’t we take a very short two 18
minute break so that we can actually invite the Commissioners that are outside to come back 19
in. I'll go get them. 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
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3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commission Action: No action was taken by the Commission. 1
2
THE COMMISSION TOOK A BREAK 3
4
Action Items 5
Public Comment is Permitted. Applicants/Appellant Teams: Fifteen (15) minutes, plus three (3) minutes rebuttal. 6
All others: Five (5) minutes per speaker.1,3 7
PUBLIC HEARING: Recommendation to the City Council Repealing Chapter 9.17 (Personal 8
Cultivation of Marijuana) of Title 9 (Public Peace, Morals and Safety) of the Palo Alto Municipal 9
Code; Repealing Ordinance No. 4422; and Adoption of an Ordinance Amending Chapters 18.04 10
(Definitions) and 18.42 (Standards for Special Uses) of Title 18 (Zoning) to Prohibit Medical 11
Cannabis Dispensaries and Prohibit Commercial Cannabis Activities, Except for Deliveries. The 12
Proposed Ordinance is Exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) in 13
Accordance with CEQA Guidelines Section 15061(b)(3). 14
15
Chair Alcheck: Ok, let's begin with Item Number 3. This action item on the ordinance related to 16
commercial cannabis securities. 17
18
Tim Shimizu, Deputy City Attorney: Good evening, my name is Tim Shimizu. I'm a Deputy City 19
Attorney here in the City of Palo Alto. Thank you, honorable Members of this Commission for 20
letting me come and speak to you today about this very cutting edge part of the law. And so 21
tonight I have two policy questions that I will present to you and let's jump in. 22
23
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So just as some background as you know last year Proposition 64 was passed by the voters of 1
California and that legalized adult recreational use of marijuana for the first time in this state. 2
Previously medical marijuana has been decriminalized over time. And just this summer Senate 3
Bill (SB) 94 was passed by the state legislature which consolidated the medical and recreational 4
regimes for regulating the commercial aspects of medical and recreational marijuana. So we 5
live in a kind of regulation very, moving very fast, but also not settled yet. So just that’s some 6
background for kind of where we're at. 7
8
And so as more background the current state of City law is that in 1197 the City passed a 9
ordinance that prohibited medical cannabis dispensaries. And in 2016 on the eve of 10
Proposition 64 the City passed a temporary prohibition of outdoor cultivation and that 11
provision will automatically sunset I think this November. So part of the reason why we're here 12
today is in response to these kind of deadlines coming up. In addition permissive zoning does 13
not allow for cannabis cultivation or commercial uses because none of that use is explicitly 14
permitted in our code. And one big time line that we're under is that if no action is taken by 15
this City by January 1, 2018, the state will begin is under a mandate to issue licenses for 16
commercial activities on that date. So if the City doesn't take any action before then the State 17
could potentially start issuing licenses for commercial cannabis activity without any City input. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
So as you know Proposition 64 legalized not only the adult recreational growing and use of 1
marijuana, but also commercial activities. Retail sales, commercial growing, testing businesses, 2
manufacturing businesses of things like concentrated cannabis products and edibles, things like 3
that. There are two real policy questions for today. The first is related to commercial activities 4
and among these commercial activities again retailing, commercial growing, testing, 5
manufacturing; the City has to ask itself what of these things does it want to be permitted 6
within city limits. And again the January first deadline looms so the City has to decide by then if 7
it wants to allow anything or nothing at least for the time being. And there is a grandfathering 8
issue [on living] with this deadline is that because the State can beginning issuing permits on 9
January 1st of next year if the City doesn't prohibit at least temporarily these activities these 10
businesses can are allowed to operate in our City even if the city then later decides oh, actually 11
we don't want that. So there's going to be some grandfathering issues and that's kind of why 12
we're here today is to kind of figure these things out before January 1st at least on a if not on a 13
temporary basis. 14
15
The second issue today is personal cultivation. So the City's outdoor ban again will end 16
approximately this November. The city can choose what kind of personal cultivation standards 17
it wants within the limits of state law and I'll explain that a little bit later. And so attached in 18
your package is a proposed ordinance which is again just a starting point for your consideration. 19
And so the proposed ordinance that's attached would prohibit commercial cannabis activities 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
except for deliveries to give the City more time to study its options and wait for final state 1
regulations to be released. And because the consolidation of medical and recreational regimes 2
has just happened this past June or July State has not released its regulations yet and that's 3
actually still coming. The prohibition would include commercial cultivation both indoors and 4
outdoors, the manufacturing of cannabis products and retail sales. It would also continue the 5
City's prohibition on medical dispensaries. Deliveries on the other hand from state licensed 6
retailers which are located outside city limits would be allowed. So for example San Jose where 7
currently medical marijuana is allowed deliveries from there to a location within Palo Alto 8
would be allowed. 9
10
It would also repeal the City's current temporary ban on outdoor cultivation to comply with 11
State law standards for outdoor personal cultivation. And so personal cult, I’ll explain personal 12
cultivation now and so just some background on personal cultivation. Proposition 64 which 13
again was passed last year allows the personal cultivation of up to six plants per residence. And 14
State law as it stands right now requires that a person must grow the plants either within their 15
private residence or on the grounds of that private residence in a locked space and is cannot be 16
visible by normal unaided vision from a public place. So the City and the Planning and 17
Transportation Commission (PTC) has the option of recommending to the Council and I'm 18
asking you today of how City has the option to limit personal cultivation to that which is inside a 19
private residence or inside an accessory structure to the private residence located upon the 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
grounds of a private residence that is fully enclosed and secure. So really for personal 1
cultivation the two options are what the City defines as generally as open which is would be in 2
your backyard per se in a locked fenced area, but not in any structure or the option of 3
additional requiring it to be in accessory structure. 4
5
And so an update on what other jurisdictions are doing; Campbell actually had a special election 6
this year which banned cannabis dispensaries until 2019. Campbell also passed a tax a local tax 7
on medical cannabis should dispensaries ever become legal in their City. Fremont, The city of 8
Fremont also prohibited just prohibited all commercial cannabis activities. Many cities in 2016 9
in the face of the passage of Prop 64 passed emergency ordinances that prohibited all 10
commercial activity and cultivation and those generally are still effective. Post SB 94 ordnances 11
are just now being released as SB 94 was again passed just this summer, but Beverly Hills 12
recently passed an ordinance prohibiting commercial activities except for deliveries and also 13
follows the state baseline for personal cultivation which again is outdoor in a fenced area, but 14
can be generally open. And so that is the same approach that the City's proposed ordinance 15
attached in your packet takes. And as a local cities are also mixed though on the issue of 16
personal cultivation. Mountain View follows the State baseline standard. They declined to 17
extend their temporary ban on outdoor cultivation, but on the other hand Fremont does 18
require the accessory structure requirement. 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
And so the two issues that I'm asking tonight is for in the proposed ordinance to recommend 2
that ordinance with your comments to the full City Council on the issue of commercial activity 3
and also on especially on the issue of personal cultivation picking between the open generally 4
what I'll call the open requirement versus the accessory structure requirement. And also 5
recommend that the City Council find the proposed ordnance exempt from California 6
Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) in accordance with CEQA guidelines. And so of course again 7
the ordinance that is attached in your package is of course just the starting point for your 8
discussion. And I would gladly take any questions from the public and from the honorable 9
Members of this Commission. I know that was very fast. 10
11
Chair Alcheck: Thank you for that presentation. And it's nice to meet you. At this time I'd like 12
to call our one speaker card. Rita Vrhel. How's that for getting it? 13
14
Rita Vrhel: If I'm going to attend I'm going to speak. I am a nurse. I have my own business and I 15
really hope that you will support the staff recommendation. Marijuana has been called a 16
gateway drug and recently a client told me about a friend of her 18 year old son that was able 17
to get medical marijuana card on Facebook for $10 and now is happily supplying all of his 18
friends with marijuana. Research has shown that brain development really doesn't reach 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
maximum capacity for making critical decisions until about 26 and yet we're putting kids at risk 1
by we could be putting kids at risk by making marijuana available to them. I think if people 2
have to stop and think and maybe drive to Redwood City or I don't know San Jose or someplace 3
or get it over in the mail then maybe that will stop some impulsive behavior of trying the drug 4
right now. I just think that since Palo Alto is spending close to $2 million a year on the track 5
watch program and that we have we know we have a problem with teen suicide that marijuana 6
should not be so casually introduced into the mix. Thank you. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Thank you. If before we begin I encourage the Commissioners to light up their 9
lights if they wish to speak on this item. Before we get in there is one item that I was hoping 10
you could clarify for us as so that all the Commissioners can sort of hear it which is would you 11
just clarify why we're accepting deliveries or what the reasoning or what might be the 12
reasoning behind accepting deliveries. 13
14
Mr. Shimizu: So in this… a version of this ordinance has come before Policy and Services 15
Committee and one of the issues that was raised there was people's interest in making sure 16
that especially people who are need medical marijuana can access it. People as I heard in the 17
Policy and Services Committee people use marijuana medical marijuana for things like chronic 18
pain are unable to of course avail of themselves of using a car to go to San Jose for example and 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
getting medical marijuana. And ensuring that those kind of deliveries can still occur would be 1
important. Further, I think if you go on the Internet and you can see if you type in Palo Alto 2
deliveries there are definitely search results that are applicable. Again, this is something that 3
we’d kind of rather get ahead of then kind of fall behind on things like short term rentals for 4
example. But definitely foremost at Policy and Services the issue was making sure that people 5
who really need it could still get it. 6
7
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you for that clarification. I am opening it up. I see one light here from 8
Commissioner Rosenblum. You pushed the little metal toggle up and it’ll light my board. 9
Commissioner Rosenblum, please. 10
11
Commissioner Rosenblum: Thank you. I just have a couple of questions. First, it seems that 12
there was a study of the potential impact of medical marijuana conducted in 1997 by the City 13
so our prohibition seemed to date from then and there must have been some study at that 14
time that led to a ban on the dispensaries in town. And we decided at that time to reject it in 15
the community. And different cities have now had different experiences over the last 20 years. 16
Has Palo Alto in the last 20 years done any study at all about any neighboring community? 17
What's happened to crime rate? A speaker brought up things like teen depression, the link to 18
gateway drug use, etcetera. So we've had 20 years to study this. Has there been a study? 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Shimizu: Respectfully I'm not aware of any study that would be done as a follow up to the 2
1997 study or about marijuana in kind of general facts on the City, but I yeah, I'm not aware of 3
one. 4
5
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok. So then my second question is how did Palo Alto vote on Prop 6
64? 7
Mr. Shimizu: In terms of the vote to within the City of Palo Alto I'm not sure. I could look it up 8
for you for sure, but otherwise I can't venture a guess. 9
10
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok, so I'll just make a statement and maybe other Commissioners 11
will have questions. I support the City's recommendation because this is something that I don't 12
think we just want to pass tonight that would have… [something] I don't think we want to 13
neglect our duty and just let the doors fly open without having studied this. I am a little 14
troubled that in 20 years knowing this was coming we haven't studied this. I went to college in 15
Massachusetts and there are many dry towns that are that still prohibit alcohol and there are 16
many towns that do not and they constantly reevaluate what is the effect of not having alcohol 17
in town, what are the advantages and disadvantages. Here obviously we permit alcohol. We've 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
decided that marijuana is a bridge too far. I'd like to know why. I’d also like to know what the 1
voters thought. So my ask is I think that the staff recommendation is reasonable and we 2
shouldn't do anything before we have a handle on the issue. My ask to staff is that we actually 3
prepare a proper study about what's happened in other California communities, how the 4
people of Palo Alto voted on this, and have a public hearing on this. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I have a light from Commissioner Lauing. 7
8
Commissioner Lauing: Thank you. I had a couple of similar questions from Commissioner 9
Rosenblum including the question of has there been any public hearing yet on this or any sort 10
of public input at all or is that is this the initial one effectively and then it’s going to go to 11
Council and others can come to that. 12
13
Mr. Shimizu: So this issue and an earlier draft of this ordinance which is your Attachment C has 14
been before Policy and Services Committee and that was in June of this year. And I can tell you 15
that zero members of the public attended that meeting on the marijuana issue and cannabis 16
issue. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Lauing: Actually that was going to be my next questions because if it had been in 1
front of any Council committees. So (interrupted) 2
3
Mr. Shimizu: Yes, so Policy and Services. 4
5
Commissioner Lauing: I had a couple of other ones. The text in the staff report seemed a little 6
bit different than your PowerPoint here so I just want to clarify exactly in the backyard what 7
kind of set up it is. I thought reading the text that it was not viewed by the public, but I thought 8
that might mean that it could be viewed by a neighbor. So I just want clarity on that. 9
10
Mr. Shimizu: Yes, so that's a good distinction to make. So State law which is what we're trying 11
to look at here says that it cannot be visible from a public place. So it's a public place not just 12
by the public a person so to me that would say and from unaided vision. So if you're standing 13
on the sidewalk a public sidewalk you better not be able to see. If you can see in someone's 14
backyard that's you can't do it there, but say if you're on private property looking into your 15
neighbor's backyard that's different. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Lauing: Yeah. That’s what I thought, but that's the clarity that I was asking for 1
here. And the delivery can come sort of from anywhere, right? Through the mail or via a truck 2
or somebody can walk up to your front door or whatever? 3
4
Mr. Shimizu: Oh. Yes, so state law requires that deliveries under the Prop 64 [regime] people 5
who are making deliveries have to already be licensed to retailers. It's not a whole separate 6
class of say State license. So in that sense it to be legal deliveries to Palo Alto would realistically 7
have to come from license retailers in the Bay Area; somewhere that you could already be 8
licensed to. It's mine, I don't think the mail for example would deliver marijuana because that's 9
federal law and it's still marijuana. To be clear cannabis and marijuana is still illegal under 10
federal law. And even UPS and FedEx I don't think they will touch marijuana yet. 11
12
Commissioner Lauing: And then again just a clarity question on Packet Page 401 where you say, 13
personal use regulations are not included in this ordinance and can be addressed by the Council 14
in the future. That’s non-growing, just use of by a citizen. Is that what that means? 15
16
Mr. Shimizu: So yes include for example, cultivation, personal cultivation could be further 17
regulated we think under State law for example requiring permits things like that. There's the 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
reason why we're not addressing it now is because it's that there is not as hard of a time limit 1
on that. It's already legal to grow under State law. If the City wants to adjust its regulatory 2
scheme beyond State law it can always do that in the future and people would have to be 3
comply. The bigger problem that we've tried to highlight today is just the for commercial uses 4
this January 1 deadline that the State will start beginning, will start well, that is mandated at 5
least to begin issuing licenses. 6
7
Commissioner Lauing: Ok. And consistent with Commissioner Rosenblum’s comments I just 8
think we should it would be great if we could get more data. For example, I don't know how 9
easy it is to get a marijuana, a medical marijuana card. It sounds pretty easy from what the 10
speaker has said. So data like that I think would be really helpful for us and for Council going 11
forward. 12
13
In general I do support a conservative approach and the staff recommendation at present just 14
to kind of it's the wild west so let's just kind of figure out what's going on. A little bit a pause 15
around folks that legitimately need medical marijuana don't want to have them have to go 16
through a lot of hoops to get another medicine like you get a medicine at a drugstore. So thank 17
you. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Shimizu: Thank you. 1
2
Chair Alcheck: Thank you, Commissioner Lauing. I'm going to make a few comments and 3
hopefully we can get some responses from the other Commissioners who are preparing their 4
comments. Yeah, I am generally supportive of the ordinance. I want to talk a little bit technical 5
here I’m less supportive of the notion of requiring accessory structures in rear in backyards for 6
the purpose of growing. That seems to add a layer of complexity that I don't think is prudent. I 7
just but I want to acknowledge what does it mean to enforce this ordinance? So I mean what 8
position are we putting our City enforcement officials in when we say there can be a limit of 6 9
plants and what happens if someone has 20? The notion that it's out of sight from a public 10
place means that if you're standing on the street you can't see it. So in theory every backyard 11
could potentially have it if they have a regular fence and they've got side gates that are locked 12
which is one of the requirements. So if you create an accessory structure for example and they 13
have 50 plants, again I don't know where the number six really comes from, but it becomes sort 14
of difficult for… 15
16
The point I'm trying to make is that while I don't believe the accessory structure is a good 17
addition to this ordinance it is sort of interesting. I imagine a scenario where there's a neighbor 18
who's peeking over and he sees 50 plants and he's freaking out and he calls the City and the 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
City has to come enforce it and then to be perfectly honest a lot of our ordinances are enforced 1
through phone calls that we get from residents. So it wouldn't be dramatically different from 2
the way things are already enforced. I just wanted to highlight that issue. So again I'm 3
supportive of this ordinance and when you Commissioners feel comfortable making a Motion I 4
will support it and I would exclude the language regarding accessory requiring an accessory 5
structure. I’m curious to hear the rest of your thoughts. 6
7
Oh, and the last comment I will make. I also upon hearing the explanation from the Policy and 8
Services meeting this I'm sure everyone can think of a immobilized patient, cancer patient who 9
is using medical marijuana for purposes and the notion that they would rely on a delivery 10
service and then theoretically be deprived of the use of medical marijuana is so unappealing. 11
So I definitely understand why we're excluding that prohibition. Ok, I have Commissioner 12
Summa then Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] Waldfogel and Commissioner Monk. 13
14
Commissioner Summa: Thanks. I'm generally supportive of staff's approach too. My broad 15
ideas on this it's not a very important thing to me. I it's not a product I use, but I think the 16
decriminalization aspect of this will be very good for the State of California. I am concerned so 17
it's private companies only that can deliver this because federal companies and the United 18
States Postal Service (USPS) can't deliver it, right? 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Mr. Shimizu: That's my general understanding, yes. 2
3
Commissioner Summa: Ok. 4
5
Mr. Shimizu: And I think in San Jose for example deliveries are basically by you have to be an 6
employee I think almost of the operation, the retail operation. 7
8
Commissioner Summa: And are we, do we have any concern that not having a dispensary for 9
medical marijuana only close by might be as Chair Alcheck said prohibitive for some people? 10
Will prohibit them from actually getting it? Because I do know people that use really rely on 11
medical marijuana. So is that a possibility or? I don't know anything about the costs, the 12
additional cost of having to have it delivered by this personal service. 13
14
Mr. Shimizu: So legalizing of or permitting the use of or printing zoning to include medical 15
dispensaries of course is always a possibility and definitely within of course the subject area of 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
this Commission. It's just something that I as part of staff haven’t studied everything that 1
would need to go along with that. 2
3
Commissioner Summa: Ok. And lastly I would agree with Commissioner [Note-Chair] Alcheck 4
that a outdoor accessory structure to grow a plant is a little bit silly and I don't I don't see it as 5
improving anything for anybody really. Thank you. 6
7
Mr. Shimizu: Thank you. 8
9
Chair Alcheck: Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] Waldfogel and then Commissioner Monk. 10
11
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Great, thank you. I echo Commissioner Rosenblum’s point. I look 12
forward to further discussion on this topic, but not tonight. Just one point of clarification on 13
Commissioner [Note-Chair] Alcheck’s question; so if somebody had 50 plants under cultivation 14
who would be prime to enforce that? I mean that would be commercial cultivation without a 15
license, right? 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Shimizu: Yeah, so well it's definitely violating the personal cultivation law which is six set by 1
the State at six plants. And if you don't have a commercial license then obviously that's against 2
the law there. Who is in charge of enforcing that? I think under Prop 64 law enforcement is 3
primarily local law enforcement so the City of Palo Alto either Police or Code Enforcement. 4
5
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Ok. Yeah, I’d be… ok I’m surprised that Code Enforcement would be 6
prime, but ok. 7
8
Mr. Shimizu: Well, depending on how the City decides to enforce marijuana and cannabis 9
(interrupted) 10
11
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Ok, well I guess that's outside our scope; just two technical suggestions 12
then for you. One is on Packet Page 406 on this 94.5 section where you define cannabis I'd 13
recommend aligning the definition with State law or just referencing State law rather than 14
creating our own definition if that's possible, if there's a consistent way to do that. 15
16
Mr. Shimizu: Absolutely. 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: And if it works then on [1842150b] the exception for qualified delivery 2
services I just want to tee up would be the pros and cons of adding the words to a fixed physical 3
address at the end of that statement because otherwise you could imagine somebody setting 4
up a rendezvous delivery service which may or may not be what we want to have. So just to be 5
kind of crisp that this is delivery to you at your fixed abode. Would that be a reasonable add or 6
would that complicate this unnecessarily. 7
8
Mr. Shimizu: No and so something that we're going to do it's starting tomorrow is looking at the 9
Beverly Hills ordinance and setting how to approach that very issue. In terms of I know one 10
another idea is trying to define delivery a little bit more crisply in terms of defining it say as 11
delivery is something that is a pre-purchased thing to a specific address that is planned before 12
the person leaves the retail establishment or something like that. 13
14
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Ok, so [unintelligible] 15
16
Mr. Shimizu: And trying to capture (interrupted) 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Custody changes hands at the point of origin, not at the point of delivery. 1
2
Mr. Shimizu: Yeah. So think to prevent things like mobile dispensaries or roving warehouses 3
that then get an order, but are somehow driving around Palo Alto. We don't want that either 4
where they're just driving around without any orders to deliver. 5
6
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Ok, great so you're on a track to clarify that. Thank you. 7
8
Mr. Shimizu: Yeah, thanks. 9
10
Commissioner Monk: I'm glad to hear that you're on track to clarify delivery. That was a big 11
concern of mine as well and I do want to support Vice-Chair’s suggestion to add that language 12
and I would even go a step further to require a matching ID or other legally feasible methods to 13
ensure that this is going to the intended person that is of age and is verified by the person 14
delivering the cannabis. So that kind of falls under the commercial activities and so also along 15
those lines you mentioned that the deliver be services, qualified delivery services. I definitely 16
would like to see defined terms of what a delivery entails and also what a qualified delivery 17
service entails. You mention that they do need to be a registered business. On that note do 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
they need to be registered here? Is the City going to look at requiring a tax, business tax to 1
those businesses, a business license tax? Also how are we recovering or are we looking at 2
recovering any additional taxes for the recreational usage? Is that being tracked or are there 3
plans to track that in some way? Is this the avenue; is this the right place to discuss the tax 4
implications? 5
6
Mr. Shimizu: So I can speak very, very briefly on taxes. Of course if the City wishes to pass any 7
kind of excise tax on marijuana which would be the appropriate tax, not a sales tax. It can 8
always go to a two thirds vote of the electorate. The State has imposed special taxes on the 9
state level on cannabis products. I think at a rate of 15 percent. So in terms of local recovery 10
it's still not clear how that money will be distributed. I know some of it is going to be 11
distributed in grants, but only to cities that allow more commercial activity. In terms of the City 12
doing its own cost recovery programs whether that's business licenses or permits or fees we 13
haven't explored how those would work yet or if we would do that. 14
15
Commissioner Monk: I think it's an important issue to look at because we're not going to have 16
physical structures in the City. We're going to be heavily dependent on receiving these sorts of 17
products through delivery services. So I think it's something that we really need to examine and 18
regulate carefully. I spoke with someone who is in Menlo Park who does receive medical 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
marijuana for his high school daughter due to her illnesses and then I think he also uses it 1
recreationally, I'm not totally sure. But he mentioned a company called Ease.com and he had a 2
bet with a friend on how fast they could receive their marijuana delivery versus a food delivery 3
and guess what got there more quickly? Within ten minutes. So I'm very concerned about 4
where are these delivery trucks hanging out? How are they being regulated? Where are they 5
get in this the other person that he was referring to was is in Los Altos. So this is two adjacent 6
communities that are receiving their deliveries in 10 minutes or less of when they put the order 7
in on their app. So I just really want to make sure that we're really knowledgeable of as to how 8
this is happening. 9
On the personal cultivation aspect I do think there's a big gaffe in the new ordinance as 10
compared to the prior ordinance referring to Page 410 there was a prohibition of open 11
cultivation which I understand that had to be removed because of the State law to stop prohibit 12
open cultivation. So what I would suggest however because we are requiring personal cult… we 13
are requiring some restrictions on the personal cultivation to be within a locked structure. I do 14
believe that language does need to occur in the body of the ordinance itself and as written is 15
not in there at all. So I think modifying that prior paragraph under [1842150 Section A] to call it 16
personal cultivation rather than the prohibition and then putting that back in under Section 17
five. 18
19
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Shimizu: But just on that one technical point so State law in the Health and Safety Code 1
defines those standards statewide. The in basically in your backyard in a locked space that's 2
not visible from the a public area. So the City doesn't have to put that in its own ordinance 3
unless it just wants to basically recite State law to people looking there. 4
5
Commissioner Monk: So is that a policy question for Council to determine? 6
7
Mr. Shimizu: No. Well, no. It's just it's a kind of just style choice. If people need to be, if you 8
think people need to be reminded to look at State law for what the standard is of course it can 9
be kind of noted there, but State law already sets the minimum standards for growing personal 10
cultivation outside. And that's why it's not put in that ordinance that draft that you have before 11
you today is because we're just now deferring to what State law requires. The only ordinance 12
change that would, the only mention of it that would need to come back in is if this Commission 13
recommended the accessory structure requirement. 14
15
Commissioner Monk: Why was it in the prior ordinance then? 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Mr. Shimizu: The prior ordinance draft had an accessory structure requirement, but the Policy 1
and Services Committee was a little bit unsure of that requirement so we decided to give this 2
Commission some options about how to approach that. 3
4
Commissioner Monk: Ok because it doesn't look like it was tied to that accessory structure so it 5
looked like an independent ordinance. In any event I think that made my point on that issue. 6
As far as general feedback on the drafting of the ordinance I'd like to see the defined terms 7
capitalized so that we know that they're defined terms. I'd also recommend staff to review for 8
consistency in the referencing medical versus medicinal given the change in the language from 9
the prior law that used the word medical and the current law that used medicinal. 10
11
Mr. Shimizu: Absolutely. 12
13
Commissioner Monk: Another defined term you might want to consider is locked space in the 14
event you do put that language in there. On the new section 94.5 Section A I just would 15
suggest adding one word and this deals with the commercial cannabis activity storing 16
laboratory testing, labeling transportation distribution, and delivery. I would add to the word 17
transfer as well. In Section same Section C consider adding some language about it being 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
medical or recreational because you have the word medicinal. So just being clear on the 1
language of making sure it's reflective of the new State law. Looking at Section 7 this was just 2
more language so I won’t go into detail. I think that's all I have for now. Thank you so much for 3
the presentation and in the future I'd love to see the actual code section if that's something you 4
can throw in when it comes to us drafting ordinances that are pursuant to new laws that would 5
be helpful. 6
7
Mr. Shimizu: Absolutely. Thank you for your comments. 8
9
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I have a light from Commissioner Gardias. 10
11
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. I'll be brief. I think my colleagues exhausted all the 12
possibilities, but I would be interested also in clarification of the deliveries. So I support all the 13
voices. This needs to be a normal commercial delivery like any other business. So this cannot 14
be, hospitality of this town should not be overused by pretty much some non-normal or not 15
normal practice. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
And then in terms of the locked structures that you have proposed here in the that language is 1
still here. Those are pretty much those locked structures we're talking about the any structure 2
that's under current code. It would be a shed or secondary structure, right? So pretty much… 3
4
Jonathan Lait, Assistant Director: Under a 120 square feet or something like that. 5
6
Commissioner Gardias: Ok. So I believe that there is for those that grow marijuana at home I 7
believe that there is a risk of cultivation and there were some accidents so for this reason some 8
do this they moved it to the to some outside or separate buildings, right? I don’t know if you if 9
you’re familiar with those cases, but that was the reason why pretty much some individuals 10
they wanted to use some other buildings as opposed to their homes, right? 11
12
Mr. Shimizu: I'm not sure about specific cases, but growing a lot of cannabis inside any 13
structure can be hazardous depending on electrical load and water and things like that. 14
15
Commissioner Gardias: Right, because it takes I mean it uses heat, right? You have to 16
[unintelligible] produce [unintelligible] you have to just have lamps that will generate the 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
warmth and then pretty much if there is a overheat of a circuitry that may cause a fire, right, or 1
some other jump? 2
3
Mr. Shimizu: Yes, that's always a hazard and part of State law regulating commercial cultivation 4
to get a license involves going to regulations for water use, electrical use, and things like that. 5
6
Commissioner Gardias: Right. So I think that pretty much because we're talking about either 7
existing structures and then pretty much what can we do, right? I mean those are existing 8
buildings that some individuals possess on their properties. If there is a new structure that is 9
dedicated to cultivation of marijuana that may be a different story. So I would maybe limit 10
potential limitation on those as one of the colleagues said to that if there is a to only dedicated 11
structures for marijuana cultivation. So just to give you an example right, say that somebody is 12
going to just put 20 square feet shed, right? With this sole purpose I think that because of the 13
that should not be allowed under the code. But if, but then if there is a some other secondary 14
structure and that there is within this structure there is a corner that should be a normal part of 15
the of the business. 16
17
Mr. Shimizu: Right. Thank you. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I have no lights. I’m hoping somebody will make a Motion. Can I get a 4
Motion? 5
6
Commissioner Rosenblum: I’ll make a Motion. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Thanks, Commissioner Rosenblum. 9
10
MOTION 11
12
Commissioner Rosenblum: So I recommend that we adopt staff's recommendation with the 13
exception so I’m looking at the recommendation right now. The I agree with the language that 14
we should not require a separate building for the personal cultivation of cannabis. So I don't 15
know how this would need to be adjusted, but I recommend that we adopt staff 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
recommendation to approve the proposed ordinance prohibiting medical marijuana 1
dispensaries, etcetera. And that we find the proposed ordinance exempt from CEQA. 2
3
Mr. Shimizu: So in terms of if you don't want the accessory structure requirement the proposed 4
ordinance would just stay as is. As it’s I think it’s Attachment A to your packet. 5
6
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, ok. Thank you. 7
8
SECOND 9
10
Commissioner Monk: And I’ll second. 11
12
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I have a Motion on the floor. Would you like to speak to your Motion? 13
14
Commissioner Rosenblum: Just very briefly. We had just a brief discussion about the potential 15
for requiring a accessory unit for this. I just think it's a somewhat meaningless prohibition. 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
We’re already stipulating that it's not visible from any public byway, the yard is locked, 1
etcetera. This is California. I think that outdoor growing conditions are already ideal so 2
discussions [pause in audio] I think largely is not going to be relevant. So I think this is probably 3
the to me this is the most logical thing to do until we can have a proper study of the issue. 4
[pause in audio] 5
6
VOTE 7
8
Chair Alcheck: [pause in audio continues] floor please raise your hand or and say aye. That’s 9
unanimous. 10
11
MOTION PASSED (7-0) 12
13
Mr. Shimizu: Thank you very much. 14
15
Chair Alcheck: Thank you very much for joining us tonight. That will conclude Item Number 3. 16
17
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commission Action: Motion made by Commissioner Rosenblum to accept staff’s 1
recommendation as stated in staff’s report, seconded by Commissioner Summa; motion passed 2
7-0. 3
PUBLIC HEARING Planning and Transportation Commission Review and Recommendation 4
Regarding the June 30, 2017 Draft of the Comprehensive Plan Update, with a Focus on the Draft 5
Transportation and Land Use Elements 6
Chair Alcheck: And I’d like to immediately pivot to Item Number 4. 7
8
Elaine Costello, Management Partners: Ok there it goes. Members of the Commission, my 9
name is Elaine Costello, I have been working with the City on the Comp Plan update. This is 10
your… if we could have the schedule? This is your fourth meeting on the Comp Plan and what 11
we're focused on tonight and it's actually what you've been making good progress. You've gone 12
through the Transportation Element policies at the meeting on July 26th and then you looked at 13
them again and made a few more changes to that on August 9th and asked that you put off 14
taking any action on them until tonight so you had a chance to take a look at the minutes. And 15
what we're asking for in terms of action is not like an [unintelligible] just sort of are they… are 16
they correct? Do they kind of capture the Commission's discussion? Because we did sort of 17
consolidate some comments, we organized them by goal, we tried to identify some areas of 18
consensus. You gave us feedback at the last meeting of where we might have found consensus 19
where there was not consensus. You may want to identify some areas where there are. So you 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
aren't saying that you approve this or you recommend it. It's just is it ok? That's all we're 1
asking for tonight so that we can sort of put this together as a package. 2
3
You also at the 9th meeting did a discussion of the first four goals of the Land Use Element 4
which are the most controversial and probably the most impactful goals in the Comp Plan 5
update. So we have put together your comments. You did not find a lot of consensus. The 6
Citizen Advisory Committee (CAC) didn't find a lot of consensus. This is a very controversial 7
area, but we did identify a couple of areas of consensus. So but we're not what we're saying 8
tonight is continue on the Land Use Element, just give us some feedback tonight on those first 9
four. Like are we in the… did we get something in there that's wrong or missed something? 10
We're really only looking for like completeness and is it an accurate sort of summary of your 11
discussion. 12
13
And then we're asking that you continue and finish up on Land Use tonight by looking at goals 14
L-5 though L-10. You have we’re going to move this forward. You're going to get the 15
Environmental Impact Report (EIR). In fact I think you've gotten the EIR, the final EIR. And you 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
have the meeting on the 13th where you will have if we can get through these last six goals of 1
Land Use tonight you will have completed your discussion of the two elements that you wanted 2
to focus on. And so on the 13th we’d be looking at the implementation table and talking about 3
more about how you want to really present this to the Council so that we can wrap this up on 4
the 27th and also hear about the final EIR so that's the schedule going forward. 5
6
I'm going to just briefly highlight the major what we tried to do in the staff reports was not 7
repeat every single policy in all of the goals, but really talk about what were the most 8
controversial or the biggest updates in each of the goals. So I'm going to go through those fairly 9
quickly here. For Goal 5 which is employment districts there was really… which has been a very 10
important goal for the for the City fostering compact employment districts that reduce auto 11
trips and also exploring a diverse mix of uses at Stanford Research Park (SRP) including 12
residential, retail, and hotel. 13
14
These are some of the updates; these are some of the changes from the existing Comp Plan. 15
Under urban design promoting compatibility and avoiding abrupt changes in scale and density 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
was an important part of the update. Historic resources one of the major updates was 1
protecting historic resources that have not been evaluated for inclusion in state or federal 2
historic resources inventories and make sure that there aren't major exteriors alterations or 3
demolitions of those kinds of resources and adding that into the Comp Plan and also 4
considering revising the (TDR) ordinance so development transferred from historic buildings 5
Downtown could only be used for residential development. 6
7
In Goal L-8 which is about civic uses and parks and gathering places it’s supporting community 8
and cultural facilities to enrich public life more, there’s more discussion in this Land Use plan 9
about things informal small places like gathering places than there was in the older Comp Plan. 10
[There’s] a lot of discussion about creating, facilitating creation of new park land to serve 11
neighborhoods. In Goal 9 it's about public streets and spaces and again it's that outdoor 12
gathering spaces, looking at streets as more than just something for cars, looking at them as 13
kind of a place for the pedestrian, the community gathering, and also recognizing this was a big 14
theme in the Comp Plan the benefits of street trees and fostering a healthy tree canopy. 15
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
And finally Goal L-10 about the airport which really focuses on the current level of the airport 2
while minimizing environmental impacts associated with airport operations including noise and 3
protecting and enhancing the Baylands. So that's kind of a quick overview of the major changes 4
in the last six goals in the Land Use Element. That completes this presentation. Thank you. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you very much. I am going to invite Commissioners to light up my 7
board if they are ready to comment on these issues. And I would boldly suggest that the more 8
effort we make to identify areas of consensus this evening the greater the likelihood we will 9
reduce the amount of effort we'll have to make at the conclusion of this process to figure out 10
how we will communicate our comments. That's difficult, I know. We just heard that there 11
wasn't a lot of consensus in our last discussion on L-1 through 5 and you can or L-1 through 4, 12
excuse me, and you can see that because the word consensus doesn't appear once in our… oh, 13
twice, excuse me. Sorry, I missed that page. Twice in our table and so if you had it… so there's 14
two goals tonight. Make sure that the that your comments about L-1 through 4 were captured 15
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
correctly and if there are items in that table that you remember not raising last time, but that 1
you believe reflect your views give some indication to staff. I think that would be very helpful. 2
3
I want to… did we did not discuss this, but I would like to invite Commissioner Rosenblum to 4
sort of kick things off because you weren't at our last meeting. And where we discussed L-1 5
through 4 and I was going to suggest that if you wanted to discuss L-1 through 4 and L-5 6
through… and the remaining number of Land Use sections I was going to suggest maybe you 7
kick us off because you haven't really had a chance to comment on those at all. Are you 8
comfortable with that or? Ok. 9
10
Commissioner Lauing: Chair? 11
12
Chair Alcheck: Yes. 13
14
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Lauing: [Unintelligible] I have a I think that's fine because he didn't have the 1
opportunity last time, but I have a more general process question for that will impact the rest 2
of the evening so (interrupted) 3
4
Chair Alcheck: Ok, why don’t you go? 5
6
Commissioner Lauing: After he, after he gives his comments. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Ok, alright. So we’ll go Commissioner Rosenblum and then I'll look to you. 9
10
Commissioner Lauing: Ok. 11
12
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, so actually I'm not going to revisit I went through the table 13
and my understanding right now this is just a list of things that we found worth discussing and 14
then a note if everyone on the dais was in agreement on a resolution on this area or the 15
importance of the statement. And so I'd say that this is a superset of things that I am interested 16
in. It captures everything I'm interested in. There I might have voted one way or another on 17
these individual items, but I think at this point we're past that in the process and so I would I’d 18
prefer to move on. I don't have any additions to this list and I don't think that comments on the 19
list will be valuable at this stage. I can write a letter around each one of these in the interest of 20
time just to document my feelings rather than do it in stream of consciousness form right now. 21
22
Moving on though to what we were asked to look at for this meeting as the second part. So I 23
think our goal I think we started from Goal 4.6 to 4.8 so not just L-5, but I think that our 24
instructions were to start from L-4.6. Is that right? 25
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: I was going to say [unintelligible-several people speak at once] 2
3
Ms. Costello: Feel free because you weren’t here, but we actually did talk about Goal 4 last 4
time. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: And just so you know everybody’s welcome to discuss L-1 through 4 also if their 7
[unintelligible] so it’s sort of open. 8
9
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok, yeah. So I did start with L-4.6 which is [unintelligible] with 10
commercial centers. I feel like L-4.6.1 the coordinated area plan for Downtown is giant and I 11
had a question about this first. Have we had a call for a coordinated area plan in previous 12
Comp Plans to say that this is a program that we're going to undertake? Because that as a 13
process is a Program L-4.6.1 says prepare a coordinated area plan for Downtown, previous 14
Program L-22 now 60. 15
16
Ms. Costello: I think that was in the previous Comp Plan actually, but I'm not entirely sure. 17
We'd have to look that up. 18
19
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah and so my… I'm pretty sure it was in the previous Comp Plan 20
which is why it makes that previous reference. It's a very specific thing and the previous Comp 21
Plan has been with us now for a long time and so this program I would highlight to the extent 22
that we're putting our asterisk next to things that we're strongly in support of. I'm strongly in 23
support that our Downtown needs a coordinated area plan. I’m disappointed that this was in 24
the previous plan and just it's never happened. So I hope at the end this Comp Plan process 25
staff is going to prepare a list of prioritized items say so next we're actually going to implement 26
some of these things. I'm this program is towards the top of my list. I would like specific 27
language inserted to consider a pedestrianized plan for at least a section of University Ave. It 28
already makes reference to use public art, trees, bicycle racks, other amenities to create an 29
environment that is inviting to pedestrians and bicyclists and so in keeping with that language I 30
would ask to insert a clause to consider a pedestrianization plan. 31
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Hillary Gitelman, Planning Director: Can we just clarify what you mean by pedestrianization? 2
3
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah. So there's already language in Policy L-4.6 that gives some 4
guidance around what the Comp Plan is looking to see from University Ave. and then as a sub 5
point a coordinated area plan and so it specifically calls out public art, trees, bicycle racks, 6
amenities. And I'm saying as part of this laundry list of things that you’re asking the group of 7
people to take on I'm asking for a study of a pedestrianized zone as part of our Downtown 8
coordinated area plan. 9
10
Ms. Gitelman: [Unintelligible – off mike] 11
Commissioner Rosenblum: A street segment into a pedestrianized zone as part of their study. 12
Next is Policy L-4.7. I had a question on this; what is the rationale for adding Floor Area Ratio 13
(FAR) to retail at Stanford Shopping Center and what public interests do we think this serves? 14
15
Ms. Costello: This was a Council change to add the FAR. It's a new program and they want to… 16
it came out of as I recall an interest in just creating flexibility for additional retail at Stanford 17
Shopping Center. 18
19
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok. Just to go on the record this seems like an odd item for our 20
Comprehensive Plan so again our Comprehensive Plan [unintelligible] that really key items for 21
Palo Alto and increasing FAR of retail at Stanford Shopping when you know retail in general like 22
throughout the region is in peril. The problem is not having more space. So it just seems like 23
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
an odd item to add. I just don't see how it's in the public interest of Palo Alto necessarily to 1
increase FAR at Stanford Shopping specifically for retail. I would understand other things 2
though so was there a discussion at the CAC to explore housing opportunities at Stanford 3
Shopping Center and Town & Country Village which is in the section? And would that be added 4
if there was any consensus would that have been added to this section? 5
6
Ms. Costello: I'm sorry. There is language about housing at Stanford Shopping Center being 7
looked at. I’d have to quickly look up which policy number it is and there was specific language 8
about not having housing at Town & Country are both in this element. 9
10
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok. 11
12
Woman [No name given]: Did, would you like the policy number, Elaine? 13
14
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yes, please. 15
16
Woman: If you look at Program L-2.4.2. 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok. 2
3
Woman: That talks about allowing housing on the El Camino Real frontage of both the SRP and 4
at Stanford Shopping Center. 5
6
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok, ok so it’s covered in a different section. Under L-4.7 I would add 7
promote shuttle use. Currently you are stating promote bicycle and pedestrian use and 8
encourage any new development at the center to occur through infill. I think that pedestrian 9
use to Stanford Shopping Center is actually quite difficult. It's surrounded by a giant parking lot 10
and I live about as close as you can, it's not a very… it's not encouraging of pedestrian and I 11
don’t even know how they would do that, but they certainly can increase frequency of shuttle. 12
They can make this a much more accessible place for people that don't want to drive a car, but 13
it is it has been built really with the car in mind. And I think that the halfway point is to increase 14
their investment shuttle, but there's no mention of shuttle here. 15
16
Next Policy L-4.13 I think it's El Camino Real. So given the (interrupted) good? Ok. So two 17
things, given that El Camino Real has been densifying there's been some major housing 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
developments that have gone in since the last plan and a number of housing sites were 1
identified in the Housing Element along El Camino. Then I think this needs to get tied to a 2
Transportation goal and so I'm not sure again whether I'm not cross referencing the right goal 3
that has this already included. So is there a goal to improve shuttle connectivity to Caltrain 4
commercial centers from the El Camino Real commercial corridors? It’s not included in this and 5
so I'm asking if that's already included elsewhere because if it's not I think that needs to be 6
included in this section around the El Camino Real commercial corridors. 7
8
Ms. Costello: It what there are a number of policies on shuttles that do… would be interpreted 9
as that and there is really good bus service along the El Camino Real, but let us take a look at 10
that. I don't think it's specifically mentioned as El Camino to Caltrain is not in there already. 11
12
Commissioner Rosenblum: So I'll give… I often think it's useful just to speak directly about what 13
I'm concerned about and then see if the policies address this sort of thing. So there was a big 14
discussion here on Monday night around a proposed low income housing development and 15
their objections to that level of density for this housing development that not only is it too tall 16
and therefore out of compliance and out of neighborhood character their concerns about the 17
transportation infrastructure support a building of that density. I believe that El Camino may be 18
a great place for denser developments particular of housing and so if there is a community 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
concern around transportation linkages then we should invest in transportation along El 1
Camino Real. I would also put here and I don't know if that belongs here that El Camino Real 2
we should also look at changing the height restrictions. So if the restriction on for that site El 3
Camino Real is 35 feet it seems like a good candidate to go along with the rest of the City or 4
they go along with city denser commercial centers of 50 feet. So that would translate into a 5
clause saying consider increasing height limit in El Camino Real commercial centers to 50 feet. 6
And I would like to invest in transportation infrastructure for those, but if it's covered 7
somewhere else then I understand that. But if it's not I would like that to be included. 8
9
Alright, so now and Chair cut me off if this is a crazy process for me just to go point by point 10
because it could be… So let me know if this is what you had in mind. Ok, with that then we’re 11
at the Goal L-5. So this is foster compact employment districts developed in a way that 12
facilitates transit, pedestrian and bicycle travel, provide mixed-use. So two things, one I've put 13
on on several occasions that at for example the Our Palo A Summit that there was a lot of 14
interest in emphasizing offsets and Transportation Demand Management (TDM) plans for 15
building projects so I would like to see as part of this policy that we have language around the 16
preferred method for reducing auto trips. Here we specifically say mixed-use. I would also like 17
to say emphasis on project TDM policies to reduce reliance on auto trips. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
I also have a question about this section. Should this be connected to the TMA in any way? So 1
this is talking about an employment district. It talks about reducing auto trips through mixed-2
use, but doesn't talk at all about our nascent Transportation Management Association (TMA) 3
and kind of citywide TDM planning. And I'm wondering if that's intentional or if it's because we 4
talk about the TMA elsewhere that it just doesn't apply here. 5
6
Ms. Gitelman: Yeah, I think we deal with that TMA subject really up at the beginning of the 7
Transportation Element. I think it's in T-1. So it's dealt with there in a couple different policies 8
and programs. So we didn't feel like we needed to repeat it here. 9
10
Commissioner Rosenblum: So I would note then that given that this is such a lightweight 11
section for such a weighty topic that since there is language here to say how we’re reducing the 12
number of auto trips and it only talks about mixed-use to me that's almost the weakest, It's one 13
of the weaker things that we're doing versus what the TMA could be. So if we are going to put 14
in language around how we're going to address reliance on auto than I would lead with our 15
stronger things and that therefore like the future generation that reads this when they try to 16
compare the policy goal versus what is being developed would say, oh yeah, the Council when 17
they approved this really intended for TDM measures to be a primary tool in reducing auto 18
reliance. 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
From here on in I'm pretty fast. I have fewer things. So Goal L-6 will design buildings, etcetera. 2
I have a question on Policy L-6.5, guide development to respect views of the foothills and East 3
Bay hills from public streets and developed portions of the City. Is this goal ever enforced? And 4
I had a question about this when I was applying to Planning and Transportation Commission 5
(PTC) because I read this in the previous plan and I just don't really understand it. So if I look up 6
and down University Ave. which is looking straight to the foothills, it’s one of our wider streets, 7
you can't see the foothills from any point. And I went on Google Earth to confirm, click, click, 8
click all the way down to Alma to the train station and then finally on the train platform I can 9
see the foothills. So I have a question, is this ever used or…? Because my concern is that we 10
have a clause here that is just used to block things, but we don't really intend to honor this in 11
any way. So has this ever come up at Council where they say oh, this is a violation of our Comp 12
Plan Policy L-6.5 where a view of the foothills would be impaired based on this? 13
14
Ms. Gitelman: Well this policy seems to apply to views from public streets. So the only thing it 15
would really discourage would be like pedestrian overpasses and things that would block a view 16
up an important view corridor along a street or that's the way I read this. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok, so I read it, it says guide development to respect views of the 1
foothills and East Bay hills from public streets. So it’s specifically that if something were to 2
block your view of the hills from a public street that that would be disallowed I would think. 3
That that would be the intention of this? I’m just not sure if this ever comes up and again if it's 4
within our Comp Plan I (interrupted) 5
6
Ms. Gitelman: Yeah. I know. You're making a good point that we could clarify what the reading 7
that I just articulated that it's really meant to be talking about the view shed up a street. 8
9
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yes. 10
11
Ms. Gitelman: Not from a street across private property to the hills. It's a view shed up a public 12
street, but we can take your point. Thank you. 13
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok. So those are all my comments and most of them are around L-14
4.6 to 4.8 and then L-5, but thank you and that's my list. 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I have only one light. I encourage Commissioners to raise lights if they want 1
to speak and I have Commissioner Lauing teed off. Go ahead. 2
3
Commissioner Lauing: Ok, thank you. So we've had I think it was four/five meetings now and 4
one or two more and my concern is I've gone through these things and one meeting I had to 5
miss because of travel is where we are is I don't think getting us to the goal line that we kind of 6
signed up for. And because our assignment from Council is to do a high level review of the 7
draft and to advise on any specific policy changes that we thought should be added or in some 8
cases they even said if we missed something kind of let us know. But the last few meetings 9
have been a process just like Eric did down the line and tally them up. And so the outcomes 10
that we've had so far first of all we're all coming up to speed on the learning curve of the new 11
draft Comp Plan definitely check that box and quite valid, but the other one is we already talked 12
about it a couple times tonight is that we kind of come up with a very detailed list of comments 13
that doesn't seem like there's any sort of transportation vehicle to stay with our theme to get 14
all these random comments from five to seven Commissioners who are at a meeting into a new 15
draft or in a malleable way that Council can take incremental action on them. 16
17
I mean your assignment is not to incorporate all of our assignments and give them a new draft, 18
your assignment is to come back and give them the draft with whatever report we choose to 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
give or none as the law states. So now that we're through all this and then we have this issue of 1
what's consensus or not and to quote Commissioner Gardias from the last meeting there we 2
can't know if there's any consensus and it looks like there probably isn't which is as you just said 3
which could be fine, but until we sit down and actually have an interactive discussion on a 4
specific policy or debate on it that it should be changed in such and such a way then we aren't 5
going to be able to have consensus on anything. 6
7
And then the third thing is that one of the things that we have not done of course is read any 8
sort of prior version or a list of stuff that has been edited out. So we're missing other data 9
unless people just have knowledge of it and want to put it back in. So I'm just concerned that 10
our whole overall assignment here which is to give this high level review actually hasn’t even 11
started and we're already kind of running out of time. I don't feel like the deliverable needs to 12
be a list of comments from five to seven Commissioners or that the deliverable should be a list 13
of consensus items as determined by counting who probably commented on it and you guys are 14
doing the best you can do to weed out all those comments. 15
16
So I would suggest that we change the process in the time that we have left and instead of go 17
up and down like this now that we have finished all of the Land Use Elements as of tonight and 18
the Transportation Elements that we actually put a process in place to get some policy review 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
done. And in our limited time I think there's some constraints on that, but the structure that I 1
would suggest as a process because we are at the end of the first kind of review of all those 2
which is in that sense good timing is that each of us kind of identify a few selected areas that 3
you'd like to have us all debate for maybe selective change and then if that's a hundred items 4
we're going to have to talk about which ones we think from that big list have to go down to a 5
manageable number whatever that is, 20 or something and then we pick those up and we 6
debate them. And then at the end of that we take a vote because then that's very clear 7
whatever the vote is and if they're and it doesn't matter what the vote is because at least those 8
if it's 10 or 15 are going to get visibility from Council on the things that we deemed as being 9
pretty important items to surface to their level and actionable for their own debate as opposed 10
to trying to just take all these comments and get them in some format. 11
12
I mean the timing of your comments Eric was terrific because you made a number of very 13
constructive comments and you were essentially suggesting changes in this draft to 5 to 10 I 14
didn't count them, but 5 to 10 different policies. It's going to go nowhere besides the 15
comments because there's no way to incorporate that. There's no transportation vehicle to get 16
that into a new draft. Council isn't going to sit down for another six months and try to process 17
this stuff. So that's where I'm suggesting is we come up with things that we think are 18
important, figure out a way with the limited time that's left to focus on a few critical ones that 19
we want to debate, and then give them our full view. So if that means more meetings let's take 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
a look at that. If it means trying to reconstruct ad hocks, I don't have any perspective on that, 1
but I just feel like it would be best to try to come up with something that would be actionable 2
or policy oriented from us for them to debate. I’ll pause there. I did I have a suggested 3
example of L-1 just to point out, but it would be something like what you just said for such and 4
such a L-1 [for or 4] what if we just did this kind of shift of priorities and what I'm saying in that 5
regard is that it doesn't have to for every page or policy take months. It can't. So I'll pause 6
there. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Thank you actually for this comment. I would like to hear from other 9
Commissioners on that. Does, do you, does staff want to respond to any of this or do you want 10
to hear from other Commissioners first? 11
12
Ms. Gitelman: Well I think we're just available to help you any way we can. I think if you 13
wanted us to for example take the areas where we have identified consensus and try and turn 14
that into a series of recommendations that you could review and refine we and then add to 15
we'd be happy to do that, but you should tell us how we can assist you. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Let me do this, I would like to hear what other Commissioners think about I see 1
all my lights up now about that comment, but before we do that I guess just so that at least I 2
can understand what you are seeing what is your perspective on the value we've created so 3
far? What do you think we have generated so far that could be communicated? I mean do you 4
think that… how do you see this process ending? 5
6
Ms. Gitelman: Well I'll defer to Elaine in a second, but I guess from my perspective this is as 7
Commissioner Lauing indicated it's a first step. I mean you've all articulated ideas that you have 8
regarding the draft in front of you. I think it's telling that there are only eight areas where 9
we've identified consensus so far and some additional effort by the Commission working 10
together to identify some more areas and to develop real recommendation language around 11
the eight areas where you that you've already identified that would be time well spent and we 12
do have the time. We have three more meetings before the end of September. Oh, two more 13
meetings before the end of September and I think not a lot of other items on those agendas if 14
I'm not mistaken. 15
16
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I didn't… I think I have Commissioner [Note-Vice-Chair] Waldfogel I don’t 17
Commissioners Summa and Commissioner Rosenblum, so why don’t we go in that order? 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Summa: So I appreciate the comments of Commissioner Lauing. Did I do 1
something wrong? 2
3
Chair Alcheck: No, you didn't. I maybe I wasn’t clear. I had Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] 4
Waldfogel first then Commissioner Summa then (interrupted) 5
6
Commissioner Summa: Oh, I didn’t hear you. Sorry. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: That’s ok and then Commissioner Rosenblum. So it’s just you’re going to be 9
next. Just one second. Go ahead, please. 10
11
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: It's ok, it wasn't the first time and it won’t be the last. So I think I'd like to 12
echo and reinforce what Commissioner Lauing is saying and I think I have a suggestion on 13
something we might consider because we've gone through a long, let’s just call it a laundry list 14
of items, but what we haven't really discussed is how to prioritize goals in the plan. I mean I 15
think that as I've spent time, more time looking at the plan and listening to the discussion what 16
I've observed is that there are a lot of goals here, but there's no prioritization between the 17
goals. And I think that is a root cause of some disquiet that some of us feel. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
I mean just to give a couple of examples on prioritization I mean I think that we should prioritize 2
strong neighborhoods with family services as a very important Palo Alto value. That I think that 3
that's I think it's captured in Goal L3, but we never say that this is a goal that takes precedence 4
over other goals in the plan. Something that we really haven't said clearly is in order to do that 5
we need to ensure that commercial districts have economically viable spaces for a full spectrum 6
of neighborhood services. I mean we’ve recently seen a series of issues about community 7
services girls’ music schools that can't find spaces in the traditional commercial districts 8
because they've been priced out by other uses. So I think we somehow need to capture that 9
our commercial districts need to have spaces that can support a full spectrum of uses whether 10
it's that or whether it's therapists or ground for retail is a great start, but it's certainly not a 11
complete list of services. 12
13
I mean another distinction that we really have lost I was comparing our current plan to the new 14
proposed plan and we've actually lost the definitions of employment districts versus 15
commercial districts in the Land Use. The old plan or I should say… I keep saying old plan, but I 16
mean the current plan actually captures employment districts on the map, on the L-5 map. The 17
L-6 map in this proposed plan doesn't show employment districts versus commercial districts. 18
We've lost those definitions. It's somewhat captured in the Transportation Elements, but in the 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
transportation maps, but the L-5, the L-6 land use map has lost this nomenclature completely. 1
And so we've sort of lost this sense that I mean we had a strong definition that the employment 2
districts were the Research Park, Bayshore, San Antonio, and the medical center and that's not 3
shown on the current L-6 land use map. And so I think that's a really important distinction. And 4
I can go on with examples with examples of this, but I think that we need to set some priorities 5
about what our vision of the City is and whether this is properly capturing that 2030 vision. 6
7
Chair Alcheck: Ok. Are you going to respond to Commissioner Lauing? Ok, please do. Go 8
ahead. 9
Commissioner Summa: Ok, so I just wanted to thank Commissioner Lauing for bringing this up 10
and to be honest I don't think there's any value in giving a short list it's actually six consensus 11
items of Land Use to I don't think it's rich enough information to share with the Council. I think 12
the Council might be more interested in minority and majority positions. That being said I do 13
think minority positions should be represented of course as well. And I would say that I was 14
giving this a go the process, but actually when we voted just to look at Transportation and Land 15
Use I fully anticipated and I believe Commissioner Lauing did that we would have full meetings 16
that were just going to go through these two vital elements so that we could go down the line 17
and really discuss it amongst ourselves. And I and what we've had are really packed agenda 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
with fully packed agendas with very little time to do that. So for me it was a little bit 1
frustrating. 2
3
So and that being said I and it's funny because I worked with this. I was on the subcommittee, 4
but parts of it are not very recognizable to me especially the inclusion in the definitions… let me 5
find it. Of regional commercial centers including… wait let me find it. Including basically 6
software as an allowable use which and it calls out Downtown, Stanford Shopping Center, and 7
Town & Country. Downtown is it's is CD zoned. The shopping center and Town & Country are 8
CC zoned. I don't know when that language came in as an allowable use in those areas and I 9
think it will further aggravate the problem that Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] Waldfogel 10
brings up, but we're not having we're not being able to provide rich retail and service to 11
residents as we would like them to do walkable or bikeable or short car trip because those 12
kinds of tenants are basically being priced out by large global companies or large software 13
companies. So I would like to see, I would like to have a discussion on some of these larger 14
issues and I'm sorry that I don't feel particularly positive about the consensus list. It just 15
doesn't seem to give rich enough information to Council. 16
17
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I have Commissioner Rosenblum and then Commissioner Monk, 18
Commissioner Gardias. 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Rosenblum: So I don't think this is a great process, but I also don't think that any 2
other process would result in a lot of happiness to be blunt. I think that there each one of these 3
issues we specifically tried to pare down to issues where the CAC itself often had difficult 4
resolutions to reach and I think among us we clearly all come from different points of view, 5
different backgrounds and that's why so few items achieve consensus. So if I'm sitting on 6
Council what would be valuable to me having known that I'm at the end of a multi-year process 7
with a citizen’s stakeholder group that's already drafted a large document and what I want is 8
the PTC I think to go through and see if there are any notable omissions, mistakes or things that 9
I need to highlight. Now I’m going to get a laundry list and a laundry list may not be that user 10
friendly; however, I can go down and say yeah agree with this, yeah that's a good point I should 11
check the transcript on that one to see what they were talking about. They may or may not 12
agree with many things on the list, but what they know is that a group of well-meaning citizens 13
that spend a lot of time in planning meetings went through the final document and came up 14
with everything we could come up with that seemed to be important and of which only a few 15
did we all agree on. And so I think that will be the final thing that they’ll get. 16
17
I don't think they ever would have an expectation that we would either rewrite or come up with 18
new sections or a new paradigm or what do we does the PTC think the City should look like. I 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
think that was entrusted to the CAC to give their best work as a citizen stakeholder group. And 1
so even though I don't find this process particularly satisfying I do think that they'll at the end 2
get what was probably the intention of having us at the very end which is as a quality check at 3
the end. Was there something that was a glaring omission? Is there something that we really 4
want to emphasize? So yeah, that was at least the spirit that I went through all the items to try 5
to find things, huh? What would this mean? Did they leave something out? Is there cross 6
reference that… is this captured somewhere else? And so to me I took my job as being that, it's 7
the last step before it goes out the door. Is there anything I want the people who finally put the 8
stamp on it to pay attention to? 9
10
So my personal I think in all processes making a change a process midstream is always hugely… 11
it's disruptive. It's hard to get going again and like do something else. And so I think you only 12
do it when something is like clearly failing and then you need to have the flexibility to jump. I 13
would say this is producing a result that is quite useful for Council and I’m not convinced that a 14
different approach would have a better result. And so I would say complete the task. We’re 15
part way down and I would push the end knowing that what they'll get is a list that is not super 16
user friendly, but will be the comprehensive list of things that we thought should be highlighted 17
for concern. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. Commissioner Monk, Commissioner Gardias. 1
2
Commissioner Monk: Welcome back Commissioner Rosenblum. We've missed you, at least I 3
have. I do appreciate what both Commissioner Lauing stated earlier and I think ultimately it is a 4
convoluted process and I think we did the best that we could have done so far. If there's 5
something more tangible to redirect at this juncture I'm certainly open to it, but for now I 6
would just echo what Commissioner Rosenblum has assessed as to what we've ultimately 7
produced so far which is a list that highlights our concerns. Moving on from there or if I can on 8
the Goals L-5 through L-10 are we going to be going over our individual comments on those 9
tonight? Should I do that now? 10
11
Chair Alcheck: Why don't we, why don’t just hold for one second. 12
13
Commissioner Monk: Ok in that regard I just want to also mention that listening to 14
Commissioner Rosenblum’s comments on this element I do agree with what he had asserted 15
earlier. So if that would help with providing consensus I just want to weigh in on that. Much of 16
what he said I also did reference myself in session and that's been captured in the prior 17
transcript as well. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I’m happy to come back if you want to make some comments on L-5 through 2
10 on the assumption that Commissioner Gardias I want to turn to you if you have a response 3
specifically to the topic that Commissioner Lauing brought up and then once we're sort of done 4
with this side discussion then we can go back to making comments on L-5 through 10 if that's 5
ok with you. And I’ll and whoever lights my board up I will start on that after Commissioner 6
Monk has her opportunity. Ok, so please Commissioner Gardias. 7
8
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. So my position has always been clear. I always have seen 9
this Commission as a center of excellence and many years that we spend here on this 10
Commission and time [that really] dictate I believe that we are at least at par or maybe even 11
higher that CAC group and the comments that I heard from my colleagues are very professional 12
and I believe that material that we will provide to the Council will be very valuable. What will 13
what the Council will decide to do with this it's a different story, but I think that we should 14
continue and we should allow ourselves to polish this list of findings and maybe even as 15
Commissioner Summa suggested maybe even include some minority comments just out of the 16
respect to professionality of those comments. I think that all of those were very valuable. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
A couple of other items so there is a Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] Waldfogel mentioned 1
values and I totally agree with him that probably there should be some alignment with some 2
values that we should maybe put in writing or recognize, but when he was talking about this it 3
just stroke some note that came to my mind when we were just talking about the 4
transportation at the beginning. I came to the conclusion and I thought I had this thought at 5
the beginning that there is a wrong emphasis in number of areas and then alignment with some 6
higher values is important as well, but then we just we've neglected Transportation because 7
there was a comment at the beginning that this element is straightforward and that the biggest 8
problem is with the Land Use. I have totally opposite thinking. I believe that the problem is 9
with the Transportation not with the Land Use and yet we just went through the Transportation 10
very quickly and I think that had the Transportation the quality and throughput increased as it 11
should have been throughout all these years then many some maybe problems with the traffic 12
and some other would not be a big issue. 13
14
This is a country of the mobility and yet within the Bay Area this mobility becomes very 15
constricted and giving the high tech industry that is very mobile it's high good quality of 16
Transportation should be the key. I think that maybe we are doing this and we are maybe 17
neglecting Transportation Element because we may be coming to the conclusion we could that 18
we cannot move the needle which I don't disagree with such a perception if that's truly the 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
basis of neglecting this element. So I just wanted to make a comment that I believe that 1
Transportation should be reviewed by us with the same degree as we reviewed the Land Use. 2
3
And then also some other comment very briefly. There is number of the new policies that we 4
never covered them, but Eric just gave an example of one of those that he didn't understand 5
the purpose. And I went through many of the others especially new that were added by CAC 6
group and they didn't make much of the sense from the perspective of the of the town 7
planning. And I totally respect some groups that want to have their voice and for example 8
there is a policy about the bird friendly design which of course a request of those citizens 9
should be respected in terms of the architecture that [unintelligible] protection should be of 10
course always addressed, but I don't believe that it should be a policy. And I don't believe also 11
that there should be policy on many other items that I believe that would constrict us from just 12
allowing this town to grow organically. So if there is an opportunity I would recommend also to 13
review this document and then identify those policies that mean nothing or would just trigger 14
some expenditure on unnecessary items and it would distract us from the important items like 15
housing, retail or transportation. Thank you. 16
17
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. I'm going to weigh in here. I'm a firm believer in the notion that 18
perfect is the enemy of good. And I want to and what I'm hearing right now is I have three I’ll 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
say Commissioner Lauing, Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] Waldfogel, and Commissioner 1
Summa are a little unsatisfied with the approach and they're and they see fit to potentially 2
change direction and then I hear from Commissioner Rosenblum and Monk and Gardias that 3
they want to continue with this approach with the added caveat that Commissioner Gardias 4
would like to see us incorporate some minority view points in our conclusions. So I will say this 5
in response I agree that the process is an inherently unsatisfying process and the greatest 6
evidence that I can put forward to suggest that there is so little we can do to make it more 7
satisfying is that our very own Commissioner Summa who has had the equivalent of like what, 8
two years of exposure to this document doesn't even recognize it in some respects, right? And 9
I don't mean to misquote you, but the document does not reflect her overwhelming 10
perspective and she's had so much time to work with it. And my point there is that it is 11
inevitably a document of conflict. 12
13
I think during our pre-Commission meeting we acknowledged that the first page… what does it 14
say on the first page? What was that we had a comment on at our pre-Commission meeting 15
how… can someone remind me just so I don't paraphrase it wrong? 16
17
Ms. Gitelman: Yeah. The vision statement really talks about how we don't have one 18
perspective we have many perspectives on what (interrupted) 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: Right. 2
3
Ms. Gitelman: Palo Alto is. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: It's a con… it’s a, this is a document that needs to come together at the City 6
Council level that incorporates a lot of conflicting perspectives. While Commissioner 7
Rosenblum was talking about this laundry list I thought to myself about the sort of global 8
laundry list I keep in my house of things I still need to do that grows every week. And while its 9
sort of length is daunting the relevance of the sort of items is isn’t diminished. And one of the 10
questions I really had was if a City Council Member came upon the laundry list is there a way 11
and this might be beyond our technological means, but is there a way for them to get to the 12
relevant discussion? So if they go through the laundry list and they find an item [that 13
particular] relevant and they want to hear what we were talking about at that given time I 14
wonder if they'll be able to get to it easily. I don't know. I don't need an answer right now, but 15
I would support that we continue this process of creating our list or laundry list however 16
unsatisfying it is. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
And I would even suggest further that at the conclusion of this discussion that we just had I 1
don't know that we need to determine consensus. I think that the City Council Members will 2
approach this from their perspectives and I think when they look at our laundry list of 3
comments they will find strength for some of their own perspectives in things they see in the 4
laundry list and they may go to the comments and discussions that we had related to those 5
items in their effort to make their case at the Council level for how they want staff to edit the 6
document. But I can't predict what they're going to do, but I do think that there would there 7
will be value in… Look, particularly in an item let me give you an example alright? We have an 8
item in our table that says and I’ll use this as just an example so that the office and Research 9
and Development (R&D) actual limit should be below 50,000 square feet possibly as low as 0. 10
That is a comment that was made it doesn't have consensus. I know that we don't all feel that 11
way and I'm sure that Council has a different opinion; each member may have a different 12
opinion on that topic. 13
14
So what relevance does that have? Well maybe it doesn't to some of the Council Members and 15
maybe it does to others. And maybe if they can hear our discussion it may affect their final 16
decision. So if for example there's a way for them to maybe they'll use find, the find function in 17
the .pdf application when they're looking at the minutes, I don't know, to sort of see all the 18
times we've talked about the office cap and then try to see what Commissioners are saying 19
about it. I don't know. It's a lot of work for them to get through our discussion and it's 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
unsatisfying that we can't produce such an efficient result or maybe that the technology 1
doesn't support a super-efficient result. 2
3
Commissioner Monk: Can I ask a question? 4
5
Chair Alcheck: Yeah, so but I would suggest that I'm happy to let Commissioners light up the 6
board and keep talking about it, but I also want to encourage any Commissioners that would 7
like to make comments on the Land Use Element to do so. We have an opportunity right now 8
to make some more comments and to add to the laundry list and we can continue the 9
discussion about how to put this in a conclusion as well, but I don't want anybody to sort of 10
forego that opportunity tonight if they have comments. 11
12
Commissioner Lauing: I agree we should do both. Can I just clarify some of the? 13
14
Chair Alcheck: Yeah. Why don't we this Commissioner Lauing and then I see Commissioner 15
Monk’s light who also has comments for tonight. So I encourage you to do both and then 16
anybody else would like to talk can light up their board. 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Lauing: Yeah, if taking Commissioner Rosenblum’s comment that we should 2
complete the task well the task to date has been as Director Gitelman said to go through this 3
the first time and give all of our comments. So if we're going to complete the task then we're 4
basically done tonight because we've done that, but I don't think there's anything actionable in 5
a list of random comments with or without consensus. And frankly out of respect for the time 6
for City Council Members for them to kind of dig all through that I just don't think that's 7
realistic. And I also feel that I don't feel that… let’s see, I don't remember the word you used 8
Commissioner Rosenblum, but that it would be unfriendly or something. I think that there 9
would be some changes to policies that would be 7-0. I actually do. Some of this stuff is just 10
sort of positioning. 11
12
I mean the example that I had is that in L-1 I just had concerns that the goal doesn't call actually 13
for diversity in demographic groups in the City which we are calling for in other areas so there's 14
no question, that’s not a debate. It just doesn't say it. It doesn't say that neighborhoods are 15
prioritized as most important. It's a neighborhood city. I don't think that's going to be totally 16
radical. I don't know if seven people are going to agree with that, but and then we talk about 17
doing Below Market Rate (BMR) in a real proactive way including Monday night in right here, 18
but we're not saying that in the level of commitment to BMR this quantifying it and saying 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
we're going to get behind this, we're going to get it done and it's already happening. So it's just 1
in this case I picked L-1 just because it was L-1 and looked at it and just my own concerns I think 2
are almost obvious perhaps with the exception of something of identifying, sorry, prioritizing 3
neighborhoods which I guess to quote you is a value, a Palo Alto value. 4
5
So I just don't think that we have anything to send across besides this list and that that's not 6
enough content relative to our assignment because I don't think we've gone through here and 7
debated anything to even see if they have missed something. We say hey, you really should put 8
this in because they've asked for that. So I also think the we cannot go through this plan. We 9
cannot spend six months on this. We can't come up with everything. The item that you just 10
raised Chair Alcheck I don't think my personal opinion is we shouldn’t even address that, but 11
there might be 10, 5 items that we think that are worthy of debate over the next couple of 12
meetings that we want to talk about, have a debate, and decide and we don't even have to 13
vote on them if you don't want to, but at least we could have a serious debate on a few items 14
so that there's something of content that we can send across. 15
16
Chair Alcheck: Do you care to respond Commissioner Rosenblum? 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, just briefly I’m also cognizant of the time. Just on a personal 1
note I do 4:00 a.m. rowing practice after these and so I always get a little bit worried, but the… 2
I think we need divide this process hopefully into two parts, so part one is what we're doing. I 3
do think we should complete this task and the task as you've mentioned if we do our job we 4
could maybe be done with the first round of this tonight. Now whether or not a laundry list is 5
useful for Council this is a multi-hundred page document that they're wrestling with that will 6
then be condensed to 10 pages of items that the seven of us thought should be looked at. And 7
some of them are in mutual conflict with each other, but if I’m a Council Member I now have a 8
cheat sheet to everything that we thought should either be emphasized, eliminated, changed, 9
etcetera. And I agree with the Chair; they come to this with their own views and when they 10
look and see ah, yes I agree with this or this I disagree with, I wonder who said that? They can 11
go through the transcript and figure out what the discussion was, what the reason was, and for 12
God's sakes to even pick up a phone and call one of us. Say why did you strongly object to this? 13
I think that's useful. 14
15
Now if we do have several days left for this and we finish the first round I would be really happy 16
for our Chair and Vice-Chair for example to pound out a list of say five or six really critical items 17
and have a format of like Oxford Union where we just debate these and see if we can come out 18
with a consensus that is more robust that we can pass on. Say these were the four or five 19
things we really thought were important so we spent extra time in more of a free forum to 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
come out with our recommendation, even if we can't come with consensus here was the 1
majority opinion, here was the minority opinion on these issues. I think that would be a great 2
use of time. I'm just always loath to kind of jettison something partway through even given 3
that the thing I do think that when they get our result they will appreciate condensing of 4
hundreds of pages down into a smaller list. And then I agree if we had even more time to give 5
some measured opinions on the key items that would be even better. 6
7
Chair Alcheck: Ok, thank you. Commissioner Monk. 8
9
Commissioner Monk: I agree that it's not really fair or reasonable to send this list in this format 10
to Council and then expect them to figure out where it was mentioned and who discussed what 11
elements of it. And I'm not really understanding why we're reticent to just do some homework 12
and submit whether or not we independently agree or disagree with these comments. Is there 13
a reason why we can't just agree to go home and I personally would like to say yes or no to 14
these and put my initials and just have staff put that all together or do it in a Google Doc, I don't 15
know. I don’t know why there’s a (interrupted) 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Hold on, let me ask a quick question to staff. Is there… that's a really interesting 1
idea. Is there any issue if assuming we have let's say you provide us with the packet at the next 2
meeting which includes the full table. We couldn't respond prior to that meeting with our own 3
views on each one of the table items so that when we… I don't know if you'd have time to 4
collate it. That's the only question I have. Maybe if we did it in anticipation of the next meeting 5
on the table that we have that could provide some guidance because the number of items that 6
have been added tonight is pretty minimal. 7
8
Albert Yang, Senior Deputy City Attorney: As long as your comments are all sent directly to staff 9
and there's no conversation among the Commissioners there is no Brown Act issue. It is more 10
of a question of do we have the staff resources to compile and present it… will it be at the next 11
meeting or the one after that. 12
13
Ms. Gitelman: I'll just remind you that when we first started this exercise we were thinking of 14
potentially taking straw votes. I mean we could even really just do this in twenty minutes go 15
down this whole list and (interrupted) 16
17
Chair Alcheck: Which we could do at the next meeting. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Monk: If we do that I agree it could be done very quickly as long as there isn't 2
commentary and discussion and it's a just a way for you to capture who's supporting it. And if 3
we agree to the format I think that is something that we could consider just nailing out right 4
here right now if people want to do that. Absent that I would recommend that we each go 5
home and do it, but then that does require additional resources on your end to collate it. 6
7
Ms. Gitelman: I mean we could happily do the collation if the City Attorney’s comfortable with 8
us handling it that way. 9
10
Chair Alcheck: Yeah so I think I like these suggestions. I think at the very least in anticipation of 11
our next meeting Commissioners should go through the table and make a star next to the 12
things that they feel like they could stand behind. And if I think we can explore a way of 13
reaching out and maybe we can get back in touch with the Commission and figure out what 14
would what kind of limitations there are, but at the very least if at our next meeting after you 15
get your packet which would include the table if you made a notation on each of these boxes, 16
you don't have to do it on each of them, only the ones that you find compelling to your own 17
view and then at the meeting we could do sort of a staff directed we could walk down each one 18
and say… or you could hand them in at the next meeting. That could also work. 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
So I like this idea. I think it's a good idea that prior to our next meeting people take some time 2
to identify areas where they have consensus especially and I'll tell you why. I really think that 3
the idea of us having a debate could be interesting. For example, if we go through this and we 4
demonstrate 6-2, 6-1, 5-2, even 4-3 and then and what we realize is that there are there's four, 5
there's ten topics where we're really close. It’s like 4-3, 3-4, 4-3, 3-4 maybe we choose from 6
that group the items we want to debate. There's no sense in really debating items where we 7
have 6-1 or 7-0 or zero interest. There's like there’s one person that wants to stand behind it 8
and then we don't have to really deal with it. So that it could help us both in our in identifying 9
the areas where we [unintelligible] debate would be beneficial. So I like this idea. I'm happy for 10
you guys to continue talking about it. I do not I want to just reiterate that if you have any 11
comments on L-5 and on that you consider making them tonight as well. 12
13
Commissioner Lauing: But we need closure on what the process is going forward and I think this 14
should be a decision of the seven of us. 15
16
Chair Alcheck: Well, let me put it this way I would entertain if you'd like to make a Motion on 17
changing the program. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Lauing: I would like. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: But outside of that Motion passing I would consider that the current plan to be in 4
place. So if you're interested in making a Motion right now to change the process of creating 5
this table I’m happy, I can’t stop you. 6
7
MOTION 8
9
Commissioner Lauing: So the pre… no, that’s right, you can’t. The preamble to my comments is 10
that we are completing the first round of the process tonight in the next couple of hours and 11
we should not change that. We should do exactly what we intended. We should go through 12
here line by line, policy by policy, and give our comments for just our own edification as fellow 13
Commissioners. I don't have any optimism that the document is going to get much attention or 14
should at the Council level because it's not very actionable, but I think we do need of a process 15
going forward that's agreed upon. So I would like to move that we add to the process that 16
we've just completed a debate on selected issues that the Commission, not the Chair and the 17
Vice-Chair, but that the Commission comes up with and agrees to and the reason I had that 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
well, I’ll I won’t let me go back and just restate. That we have a additional process that 1
Commissioners identify selected areas that we want to have a debate on, parentheses not a 2
straw poll, and then we can set up additional ground rules around that and at the end of which 3
we can choose to take a vote. And that that substantive debate will lead to a substantive 4
document compared to the current list. So I would look for a second on that. 5
6
Commissioner Monk: So I just want to clarify that I was getting to that when I was first bringing 7
up this concept and then as a first step it was going to be to have us all develop a method of 8
showing consensus to staff that they can capture and then from there identifying those top 9
issues and/or as a part of that saying and not only do I have consensus on this, but put an 10
asterisk on this as one of my priority areas of discussion. So could it be handled within that 11
context? 12
13
Commissioner Lauing: Not if it's in the context of sort of a straw vote. My vision was that all of 14
us have areas that we think are for some reason not quite stated even as it's intended, which 15
was the example that I had or areas that we think that we should have seven people debating it 16
and that needs to go through a screening process because we can't do 50 of them in the time 17
allowed. So we have to come up with a few. 18
19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Monk: Then I think I'd like to offer a Substitute Motion. 1
Commissioner Lauing: Why don’t we get debate on this Motion first? We got in trouble the last 2
time with Substitute Motions. 3
4
SECOND [putting here because it must have happened off mike] 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Ok, hold on, hold on. I have a Motion on the floor with a second and I look to 7
staff real quick just to clarify because I was down this road last time and I want to make sure we 8
get it cleaned up this time especially since we had a member of the community who wanted to 9
remind us of that chaos. If I have a member of the Commission wishes to make Substitute 10
Motion what's our protocol? 11
12
Ms. Gitelman: Did we get a second on the (interrupted) 13
14
Chair Alcheck: I did actually. Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] Waldfogel seconded the Motion 15
on the table, on the floor. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ms. Gitelman: Ok. 1
2
Commissioner Lauing: It's legal it’s just complicated. 3
4
Chair Alcheck: I know. 5
6
Commissioner Lauing: I mean… 7
8
Jonathan Lait, Assistant Director: So Albert will help me out if I get this wrong, but your rules 9
provide that you can there's a Motion on the floor, there can be a Substitute Motion that 10
reverses the course of action and when that Substitute Motion comes forward that's the 11
Motion that takes precedence in the discussion. So if there is a Substitute Motion a second for 12
that reverses the direction of the main Motion that's the context in which you can have a 13
Substitute Motion. 14
15
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Ok, so let me just clarify. We have a Motion on the floor about our process. It 1
was seconded. It sounded like you were seeking a clarification or potentially amending that 2
Motion related to something (interrupted) 3
4
Commissioner Monk: Well perhaps Commissioner Lauing can just clarify or shorten the Motion. 5
It was a little bit stream of thought I felt. And then (interrupted) 6
7
Commissioner Lauing: Can you read it back? 8
9
Commissioner Monk: I can consider if I want to offer a (interrupted) 10
11
Commissioner Lauing: [Jose] can you read it back? 12
13
Chair Alcheck: I don't know that they were taking notes. So I guess the question is is if we're 14
going to make a if we're going to if you're going to move to have a process I think the more 15
specific you are about exactly what you want would help us. And that goes for you and the 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
seconder of the Motion. It would be helpful if we had a specific idea of how you want us to 1
proceed so that we can vote on it and either continue our process or (interrupted) 2
3
Commissioner Lauing: Yeah, well I did that, but it wasn't written down and I didn't write it 4
down. But I have a note in my computer here. So I'd like to see an additional process for each 5
Commissioner to identify selected areas that he or she feels that we should debate for a 6
possible change. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Ok. 9
10
Commissioner Lauing: Leave it there. 11
12
Chair Alcheck: And as you're just… This is would be excluding any straw poll process where we 13
went through and figured out where people stand is that what I’m (interrupted) 14
15
Commissioner Lauing: In my mind it does because (interrupted) 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Ok. 1
2
Commissioner Lauing: The idea is that the Commissioner would come up with things that they 3
think should be debated. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: Ok. Would anybody like to… Yeah, I'm happy to let them speak to the Motion. I 6
think they've spoken to it, but they can speak to again and other people can speak to it, offer 7
amendments, whatever you guys would like. 8
9
Commissioner Rosenblum: How do you propose making a list of things that we are to discuss 10
more? 11
12
Commissioner Lauing: Yeah, that's a process question. One option is to next meeting in the first 13
hour come up with the things that are best and if he comes up with 50 we have to get more 14
selective. 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Rosenblum: But again if it's the next meeting what is the process in that hour for 1
us to come with a list? So Commissioner Monk had a process which was that we take the lists 2
which were all the things that we discussed and we each put our name next to things we're 3
interested in and then those that have enough interest becomes a starting point for example, 4
you may or may not agree with that that's a process. That would get us to a sub list of things 5
that we can then discuss further. So my issue with your process proposal is I don't understand 6
the process, at least to start with. I don't know how we get that (interrupted) 7
8
Commissioner Lauing: I'm trying to make this inclusive not exclusive which is why I don't think 9
that two Commissioners should make up the list. I think seven should. So another easier way 10
to do it is for everyone to come with up to two ideas that they think should be debated. I don't 11
think we should open this up to the hundreds of pages and we should put all those on the 12
board and try to winnow it down. 13
14
Chair Alcheck: Ok, let me just say something (interrupted) 15
16
Commissioner Lauing: I mean Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] Waldfogel mentioned three or 17
four so he would have to be two of those under that process. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: Yeah. Let me just say something just so for the sake of clarity here. If all of us do 2
this in a vacuum and we come together and four of us have the same two, it's not likely, but 3
possible then we're only… one of the things that I’m that I think could be helpful is not just 4
knowing the things that are very important to you, but also knowing the things that are that 5
you really think are off the mark. So like for example you may Commissioner Gardias 6
mentioned something about a bird sensitive development and he may want to write, we may 7
want to that may be on the table next week that there is this there was a Commissioner who 8
made a statement saying that they didn't want to they wanted to remove the bird sensitive 9
development policy. It would be helpful to know where everyone stands on some of these 10
things and I know that a straw poll process is lengthy and I would suggest a possible 11
amendment to your Motion which would not only include a little bit more specific about how 12
you want us to come next meeting to make this decision whether it's bringing two items or 13
whether it's each of us writing our name next to the items and the ones that have the most 14
names become the items. 15
16
Commissioner Lauing: There's 5,000 items. 17
18
Chair Alcheck: There's not 5,000 items. 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Lauing: There’s 500 items. What (interrupted) 2
3
Chair Alcheck: I don’t I'm not (interrupted) 4
5
Commissioner Lauing: Every Commissioner that’s been through this knows that there are some 6
things that they think are just not quite right. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Let me put it to you this way I wouldn't write my name next to 5,000 items. 9
10
Commissioner Lauing: True, true. 11
12
Chair Alcheck: I think what I would do is if I was doing this my way I if I were to do this in 13
accordance with what we're talking about I’d probably write my name next to anywhere 14
between 5 and 10 items on this list that I think represent if I had to choose 5 or 10 things that I 15
really want Commission, Council to take away from this I could do that. So I don't suspect that 16
that's going to result in some inordinate number of items; however, it could be that each 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner have five different ones which would put us in a bind or there could be overlap 1
which is all I'm trying to figure out. 2
3
Commissioner Lauing: On figuring out the process this is precisely the conversation we should 4
be having. This is excellent to figure out what's the best way to do it. So if you think that 5
somebody should come in and write down their top 5 to 10, but pick 2 that right now they'd 6
like to talk about that that works too. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Yeah, ok. 9
10
Commissioner Lauing: I know that this list has to be restricted because our time is restricted. I 11
know that it should be inclusive from all of us and that's what I'm trying to accomplish. 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Ok, so are you comfortable with moving forward with this Motion of developing 14
a list of items to be discussed in greater specificity and potentially debate involving 15
Commissioners coming to the next meeting with their list of items of greatest significance? 16
Without a limit, just what I mean without a number limit. Not two, just come to the meeting 17
with I'm trying to give some I'm trying to give I'm trying to make your Motion actionable. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Lauing: So I think the at the Motion as it stands is fine. I'm happy to add a 2
corollary that people can come next time with as many as they want, but I would think that up 3
to two would be kind of the max. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: Ok, so there's a Motion on the floor about do you have it written now this time? 6
7
Ms. Gitelman: I think the Motion is that the Commission undertake an additional process where 8
each Commissioner identifies areas that the Commission should debate. 9
10
Commissioner Lauing: And if we want to add any process to that so that we're clear we can, but 11
I think that it's better to say they can bring any number of that they want. But we should end 12
up with 14. 13
14
Chair Alcheck: Ok. 15
16
Commissioner Lauing: At the end of the night at a max. 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: Ok, so I'm sorry what was that last comment? 2
3
Commissioner Lauing: If you want to add process to the memo I don't think it's necessary 4
because if we have an understanding it's ok, but we have to limit the number of things that 5
we're going to debate just because of the time constraints. So it doesn't quite matter how 6
many people, how many ideas come in at the top of the funnel, but at the end of the process it 7
has to be a limited number. So if it’s 2 that’s 14. 8
9
Chair Alcheck: Ok. So we have Motion on the floor to come to the next meeting with a list. I 10
actually have a light from Commissioner Gardias. I’ll turn to you and then if there's any other 11
comments and then we can put this to a vote. Commissioner Gardias. 12
13
Commissioner Gardias: Yeah so I think that I just recognize that there is a need for us to 14
formulate some consensus and I think it's it would be proper for us to identify the main items 15
that we would like to eventually change in the Comprehensive Plan. And then it would this 16
narrower selection would allow the Council to take some action. How are we going to get to 17
this list? It's irrelevant to me because I think that we should just we can just do it this way or 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
we can do it some other way. It's mechanics. It’s irrelevant. I believe that whatever process 1
will be proposed will just take us to the solution. I think that we should just identify somehow 2
those areas and then spend and then commit a debate to each [or one of] those topics. 3
4
SUBSTITUTE MOTION 5
6
Commissioner Rosenblum: So I’d like to make a Substitute Motion. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Ok. 9
10
Commissioner Rosenblum: And I do want to first in making the Substitute Motion I specifically 11
want to address the comments that were just made. This whole discussion which is now gone 12
on for a while is about process; therefore, I do think it's important to be specific if we're going 13
to go through this about the process we're employing to get the result that we think would be 14
good. I'm not satisfied to say if we just all come in with as many and we agree that we're just to 15
try to be reasonable and come down to a small list that we’ll end up with a result that we're 16
satisfied with. And so as much as possible If we’re going to spend time doing this I think we 17
should be specific. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
So I would propose my Substitute Motion is that we take a vote on the items in offline fashion 2
as was suggested by Commissioner Monk. Meaning we send in our list. I would propose that 3
each of us gets 10 that we get to select and that those that get a plurality so more than two 4
Commissioners are not plurality. Those that get a multiple of Commissioners that are all 5
interested in one become the debate. That we then try to get it down as professor or as 6
Commissioner Lauing mentioned to list, a final list that goes to Council that we have deep 7
debate on of no more than 10, but we start with a list each of us gets 10 chits that we submit. 8
Any item that got more than one person that was interested gets debated and we winnow it 9
down to a group of 10. That's my that's so that's my Substitute Motion as that is the process 10
(interrupted) 11
12
Commissioner Lauing: Why don’t you just make that an amendment to my Motion because 13
you're right, you're changing the process not the Motion; that would be a nice friendly way to 14
go. 15
16
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, if that's how it works. I don't know the I didn't (interrupted) 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Lauing: You're changing the process from what I suggested and I just suggested it 1
because of comments here. I'm perfectly happy to accept what you said in terms of the 2
process. 3
4
Commissioner Monk: I tried to do that earlier and it wasn't accepted. So that's why I guess 5
(interrupted) 6
7
Commissioner Lauing: I [unintelligible] I just understood what he said. 8
9
Commissioner Monk: Yeah. He’s more articulate than me. 10
11
Chair Alcheck: Look, the goal here I think his goal is to be as specific as possible. 12
13
Commissioner Lauing: Yeah, I’m agreeing. So I'm saying we don't need a Substitute he can just 14
amend mine on the process. 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Rosenblum: Ok, if you're satisfied that I'm just fearful that we show up with all of 1
our ideas and we'd end up again with this giant debate (interrupted) 2
3
Commissioner Lauing: Yeah, so was I. So I was I. So it’s very compatible. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: Ok… 6
7
SUBSTITUTE MOTION NOW FRIENDLY AMENDMENT #1 8
9
Commissioner Rosenblum: So there’s now an amendment. 10
11
Chair Alcheck: May I ask really quickly a question? Would you be comfortable with the staff 12
organizing our communication to them in order of greatest hits or chips, whatever you’re 13
calling it? So then an item that received for example six Commissioners thing that would be at 14
the top of the list and then we could proceed with our debate (interrupted) 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yes. 1
2
Chair Alcheck: Starting at the top and if [unintelligible] 3
4
Commissioner Rosenblum: And it ends at two. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Yes. 7
8
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yes. 9
10
Chair Alcheck: Ok, are you comfortable with that? 11
12
Commissioner Lauing: Yes. 13
14
Chair Alcheck: Ok. We have a Motion on the floor. It's been sec… actually I should ask does the 15
second of the Motion accept the amendment? 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: I’m just a little bit confused because this is giving staff agency to choose 2
the items and I think the original Motion really gave the Commission agency to prioritize the 3
items. So I just want some clarification on how this will work. I'd like to make sure that 4
(interrupted) 5
6
Chair Alcheck: My [unintelligible] 7
8
Commissioner Lauing: Because I understood that they were just processing. 9
10
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Yeah, well but the problem is that I think we're starting with a more open 11
ended discussion and so if somebody wants to bring in say a question about prioritization of 12
goals which is not something that's on a previous list that may not, it may not clear this hurdle. 13
14
Commissioner Lauing: I was just going to add that to the amendment. It has to include things 15
that are not just already detailed there. Meaning a new policy that we think is left out. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Rosenblum: So that was part of tonight’s task so if you remember there were 1
two things you're supposed to do: go through the list to date and add things if it wasn't 2
represented and then complete it with 5 through 10. And so that should already be by 3
definition by the end of tonight those things should all of been on already. So if you saw 4
something that wasn't there tonight was your chance add it. 5
6
Commissioner Lauing: But we're not getting any revised draft of the Comp Plan. All these 7
content, all these comments just go on to a list. They don't go into another draft that we're 8
going to read. So we don't even have a reference point to go back on that. So I don't think 9
that's even possible right now. 10
11
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, I… 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Ok, hold on. 14
15
Commissioner Rosenblum: Chair I'll let you manage this. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: I’m going to just [unintelligible] I think this is breaking down. 1
2
Commissioner Lauing: No, it's not. 3
4
Chair Alcheck: I do. I think it's breaking down and it's convoluted. I have a maker of a Motion 5
that's accepting a Friendly Amendment and I have a seconder of a Motion who is not satisfied 6
with it. So I'm going to turn back to the maker of this amendment and ask you if you intend to 7
make this a Substitute Motion at which point you would need a second and it would be on the 8
floor and I would allow a com… I can allow comments on it right if other, I have other 9
Commissioner lights here. 10
11
Commissioner Rosenblum: Before I do that I just want to just clarify the amendment. 12
13
Commissioner Lauing: Yeah. 14
Commissioner Rosenblum: Because I think (interrupted) 15
16
Commissioner Lauing: It makes more sense. 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Rosenblum: Vice-Chair Waldfogel just had a question maybe about (interrupted) 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Ok, so let's see if we can address that. 4
5
Commissioner Rosenblum: About it [unintelligible] let me see if I can satisfy that question. So if 6
the issue is the agency of staff to then kind of take this process and prioritize instead of us 7
prioritizing the intention was that we were prioritizing and they were acting simply as 8
compliance mechanism so that everything goes through them and then they collate. It if there 9
are items then that just weren't on the list period to Commissioner Lauing’s point I think tonight 10
you can add those. It doesn't matter if it was on the Comp Plan. There are several items that 11
are listed on the list right now that individuals sitting here at the dais had brought up that just 12
weren't on the Comp Plan that said I think this really needs to get included and those are 13
already there. So I think you have the freedom tonight to add any of those things and then we 14
go back we would be the ones who are spending our 10 chits. So the agency is with us. So I 15
want to see if that satisfies Vice-Chair. I don't see them having really any agency in this part of 16
the process. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: I think as long as this process stays open into the introduction of items in 1
the next meeting I mean again my concern is that there are high level items that we really 2
haven't discussed. We've been looking at this at a detailed level. I think both you 3
Commissioner Rosenblum and Commissioner Alcheck or Chair Alcheck made a comment that 4
troubles me which is that the City Council Members have already made up their minds by and 5
large and that troubles me that this process may not have much point if they've already made 6
up their minds. So I think what we're looking for is a tool to be somewhat more persuasive. 7
8
Commissioner Rosenblum: I do want to state for the record that I didn't say that City Council 9
Members already at their minds. I said they come to this with knowledge and a point of view. 10
Just I think that's important. They're not disregarding our work. 11
12
Chair Alcheck: Ok just procedurally do I do we do you accept the amendment? You don't have 13
to. This is not this, this isn’t trial by fire. You can say no. 14
15
Commissioner Lauing: Well, yeah as long as anything is open we can (interrupted) 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: No, I'm going I'm counting your statements earlier that you accepted it as closed. 1
I'm asking the seconder of the Motion if he accepts the amendment. 2
3
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Right now I do not because I don't believe that it's providing full agency 4
to the Commission. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I'm turning back to the individual who started with a Substitute Motion and 7
then on the advice of the maker of the Motion turned it into an Amendment. So would you like 8
to? 9
10
FRIENDLY AMENDMENT #1 REVERTED TO A SUBSTITUTE MOTION 11
12
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, I’ll make this a Substitute Motion then. Do I (interrupted) 13
14
Chair Alcheck: I don't think you have to restate it. I think we understand it. 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
SECOND 1
2
Commissioner Monk: I will second the Substitute Motion. 3
4
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I have a second. Commissioner Summa I've seen your light. I’ve been 5
wanting to come to you. Would you like to make a comment? 6
7
Commissioner Summa: Not yet about the Substitute Motion except that I need it restated. I 8
think it's really hard at these Commission meetings to not have the Motion available for us to 9
read because they're made in very conversational way and we have to have a clear idea of what 10
because little words can make a difference so that's a frustration to me. And one thing about 11
any Motion since we did not know we were going to make this potential change tonight I did 12
not come prepared to get anything that I've that is missing in the Comp Plan in here so that 13
opportunity I believe you said anything we say tonight I wasn't prepared to do that because I 14
didn't know what we're doing it. So that would have to stay open until the next staff report so I 15
could think about those things. Does that make sense? Because (interrupted) 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Hold on. Let me, can I ask a quick clarifying question? Commissioner Rosenblum 1
your Motion relates to the table that will be distributed to us in the next packet, correct? 2
3
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yes. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: So the assumption is that we will receive the next packet, let’s say we’ll receive it 6
on a Thursday and in between that Thursday how soon would you need our… how soon could 7
you get this table to us in theory? And then the follow up question is would there be enough 8
time for a Commissioner, Suma for example, to submit any additional issues into the table? So 9
that if she emailed for example if she emailed staff her list of additions that have not been 10
included because she hasn't had a chance to make those comments yet and we've exhausted 11
time could things be included into the that we then get sent to us that we then can resend to 12
you in time for it to be properly communicated? 13
14
Ms. Gitelman: I think if we got any new items from Commissioners by Tuesday of next week we 15
could turn around a new table with comments from this evening plus the new items for you to 16
do your annotations. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Ok. I'm going to if anybody is uncomfortable with the timeline I would let me 1
know, but I would encourage anyone who feels like they have lots of comments left to make 2
that should be included in a table that would theoretically get reviewed by all of us to make 3
those comments before Tuesday of next week, which gives you about a week to email your 4
comments. So my understanding of the Motion on the floor is that we would review the table 5
that would be included that would be sent out to us which would include additional comments 6
made before Tuesday of next week. 7
8
Ms. Gitelman: That's correct. 9
10
Chair Alcheck: And that Commissioners would highlight the 10 topics. 11
12
Ms. Gitelman: Annotated table we’ll have to get it back almost immediately. 13
14
Chair Alcheck: Almost immediately. I understand that. So that once we receive that table 15
Commissioners would have, your Motion is that Commissioners would have a choice of 10 16
items on the table to highlight and that any item receiving more than two Commissioners table 17
and that that table would be distributed to us and we would be able to see in what areas were 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
of greatest importance to the seven of us at which point that would be open for debate or 1
more conversation on the specifics of the importance of that type. Ok, it’s a little convoluted. I 2
feel sorry for the person who has to put that in writing. Does anybody else want to address it? 3
I have Commissioner Lauing’s light. 4
5
Commissioner Lauing: Just like to have clarification from Commissioner Rosenblum. How is that 6
Substitute Motion different than the one that (interrupted) 7
8
Chair Alcheck: I’m going to answer the question. The reason why it's different is because the 9
Maker of [unintelligible] 10
11
Commissioner Lauing: [Unintelligible] 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Because it’s procedural. The seconder of the Motion didn't accept the 14
amendment and he had to for it to be amended. 15
16
Commissioner Lauing: I understand that. 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: So (interrupted) 2
3
Commissioner Lauing: Totally understand that. Now I'm asking what I’m voting on because I'm 4
asking if there was differences in what the Motion you just made. 5
6
Commissioner Rosenblum: Yeah, so the Motion I made outlines the initial procedure to come 7
up with the list whereas yours was just open ended that we would come to the next meeting 8
with our ideas and we would just hash it out. 9
10
Commissioner Lauing: Ok, great. 11
12
Commissioner Rosenblum: And I'm worried that there's just no way for to move from that to a 13
meaningful discussion. So I wanted to first get down to the list that we care about so that we 14
can hit the ground running so to speak. 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Lauing: Great, thanks for that clarification. And the first part of the Motion is the 1
same in terms of the intent there. Ok, thanks for the clarification. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Anybody that would like to make a comment before I make this vote light me up. 4
Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] Waldfogel. 5
6
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: So I can support this Motion because it provides time after the end of this 7
meeting to provide comments. The pre, the original Motion, the original Substitute Motion 8
deadlined the list creation at the end of this meeting which I don't think anybody was prepared 9
to do and I hope that that's nine minutes from now, but it may or may not be. And so I can 10
support it in this version. 11
12
Ms. Gitelman: I'm sorry, Chair Alcheck, can I just clarify the timing? We’re talking about 13
mechanics here and (interrupted) 14
15
Chair Alcheck: I understand. Yeah, please do. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Ms. Gitelman: And because the next meeting is two weeks from tonight we have a limited 1
amount of time. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Yes. 4
5
Ms. Gitelman: I think Tues… and there's a long weekend in there. The new ideas we would then 6
collate the list. I think realistically we would not be able to get the list, get your feedback on 7
the list. We can get the list out to you and hopefully get the feedback back from you within a 8
couple days, but we won't be able to put that then out in a packet to you on that Thursday. 9
10
Chair Alcheck: I didn't think you would. I was hoping you would show up to the meeting with 11
that table. 12
13
Ms. Gitelman: So we’ll end up having to bring, we’re end up having to just bring it to the 14
meeting. 15
16
Chair Alcheck: Yeah, I'm comfortable with that. 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Ms. Gitelman: Ok. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: I think it would really be helpful if you had a slide actually that you could put up 4
on the screen that just showed it doesn't have to actually say which Commissioners were 5
behind which, it just has to show which numbers in the order of greatest. 6
7
Ms. Gitelman: In the order the number of votes. That’s right. 8
9
Chair Alcheck: Yeah. I think that would be helpful and then I think I mean I do think that the 10
intent here is sort of uniform and then we can spend more time on those topics that have 11
greater significance to everybody. Do you want to do it before the vote? You can ask a 12
question. 13
14
Commissioner Summa: It's a question for staff and specifically legal staff. Is it legal for us to 15
knowingly plan on a process where the public will not be informed before at places about this 16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
kind of thing? I mean that happens by accident sometimes, but are we supposed to plan that 1
to happen that way legally? 2
3
Mr. Yang: So my understanding of the process that’s being discussed is that the staff report will 4
be published with the table that Commissioners will then incorporating additional comments 5
that staff may receive that Commissioners will then provide their 10 preferences and staff will 6
the following week bring the compilation of that at places. 7
8
Commissioner Summa: So it'll just be the contest winners that won't be publicly known. 9
10
Mr. Yang: I mean I think it would probably because that was relevant communication we’d 11
probably bring that as well in some way. 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Is there a concern that [unintelligible] your list of 10 would theoretically be 14
public? 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Summa: No. I was concerned that we were devising a timeline process that 1
wouldn't knowingly doing that that wouldn't allow for the packet to have the information for 2
the public. That was my concern. I mean we sometimes have at places things, but it's not very 3
desirable because the public doesn't get to see it before the meeting and they don't know how 4
they might have been able to participate. That was my concern. 5
6
VOTE 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Ok. Are we comfortable with proceeding on the Substitute Motion vote? 9
Anybody else? Ok, I don't see any lights alright so at this time I'm going to take a vote on the 10
Substitute Motion. All those in support of the Motion please raise your hand and say aye. Ok, I 11
have five in support. All those opposed. One opposed, Commissioner Summa opposing. And 12
all those abstaining? Commissioner Gardias abstaining. Ok, alright. Thank you for that. 13
14
It was a little complicated, but we have a process now. That process was selected by the 15
Commission. I'm going to just reiterate it so that we understand what we're doing. Anybody 16
that would like to add comments that they can add tonight or that they feel like wouldn’t take 17
too long to add tonight I encourage you to email those to staff by Tuesday of next week. Those 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
areas of interest would be added to the table that will be redistributed to us either in our 1
packet or ahead of the packet, but it will be the same table that's included in the packet. And 2
Commissioners should then respond with a list in email to staff individually, not to the 3
Commission, of the 10 items that they feel represent the 10 items they want to discuss most. 4
Staff will then collate those choices and we will have a list in front of us at the meeting that will 5
indicate where the greatest number of Commissioners had interest in those topics and we can 6
then discuss them. Of course the list that you will produce will not include any items that didn't 7
receive more than two Commissioners interest. 8
9
Ok? Does anybody have any question about that process? I will also entertain any comments 10
about any part of the Land Use Element that you'd like to make now which could be included in 11
that table as well. I don't have any lights. Commissioner Summa and then Commissioner 12
Lauing. 13
14
SUBSTITUTE MOTION PASSED (5-1-1, Commissioner Summa opposed, Commissioner Gardias 15
abstained) 16
17
Commissioner Summa: Ok, just briefly why I couldn't support that Motion (interrupted) 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Chair Alcheck: You know what, let me recognize you now to have an opportunity to speak to 2
why you didn't [unintelligible] the Motion. I apologize. 3
4
Commissioner Summa: It's ok. I didn't think I thought the procedure would have worked fine 5
the way it was stated before and it wasn't significantly enough different. It wasn't reversing the 6
direction to be a Substitute Motion and I don't know how two rises to a majority and I think the 7
process would have been better handled the previous way. That being said do you want me to 8
go through my comments on what we're supposed to do tonight? 9
10
Chair Alcheck: Let me put it this way, we have a choice. We can either conclude this meeting 11
now and any comments that Commissioners would like to make on any part of the Land Use 12
Element or the Transportation Element they can send to staff and it will be included in the table 13
and the onus will be on the members of this Commission to review that table to determine if 14
they would like to discuss any of the new items and maybe actually your table could 15
differentiate between items that were emailed to you so that we could all pay special attention 16
to that part of the list. So I can say oh, these are the items that I haven’t even seen yet or we 17
can do it a round right now. 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Monk: Is there a third option to spend some time on it and if it's not completed 1
to continue it? 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Or you can yeah, we can I mean the option to email them is open period whether 4
you get your comments in now or you have extra comments later you can email staff. 5
6
Commissioner Monk: I think we're going to be emailing staff a lot with regards to our prior 7
process. 8
9
Chair Alcheck: Ok, why don't we do this? Why don't I set a five minute timer on anybody who 10
would like to make comments on L-1 and the longest this could last would be 35 minutes and 11
the shortest it could last could be five minutes. So why don't we do that and (interrupted) 12
13
Commissioner Monk: L-5 through L-10? Is that what you mean? 14
15
Chair Alcheck: Any comments you'd like to make on the Land Use Element whether it's in L-5, L-16
10, L-1 through 5 or Transportation. Any comments you'd like to make I'll give each 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner five minutes to make them and anything that doesn't fit into that five minute 1
time frame you can email to staff before Tuesday. Ok? I have on my list Commissioner Summa, 2
Commissioner Lauing, Commissioner Gardias, should I add your name? 3
4
Commissioner Monk: Yes, please. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Commissioner Monk. So we're in for 20. 7
8
Commissioner Summa: Ok. So Packet Page L-24, regional community commercial definitions. 9
Soft, I note that software development has been added here which I find very curious for the 10
Stanford Shopping Center, Town & Country, and University. I mentioned earlier that they don't 11
even have the same land use zoning designation. Town & Country Village and Stanford 12
Shopping Center are CC and they also have rather strict restrictions in the code with which with 13
regards to other types of development. In the Downtown is CD. I'm not sure why we would be 14
adding software development when there have been public conversations already about 15
whether software companies and there are some pretty big ones are an allowed use in 16
Downtown. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
I'm just confused by it and I think it has a devastating effect on policies later on in the such as 1
Policy L-2.2 which states enhance connections between commercial centers and mixed-use 2
centers and surrounding residential neighborhoods by promoting walkable and bikeable 3
connections and a diverse range of retail and services that cater to the daily needs of residents. 4
I feel that in addition to housing issues the second most important issue have, we have is a 5
diminishment of those services and retail needs that fulfill our daily needs of residents are 6
having a hard time competing with all the software companies. So that is and there are other 7
policies that it is inconsistent with. So I would recommend that software development be 8
struck from that definition on Page L-24. Let's see, also Goal 5 so most of my, there are many 9
other places in here that would support that notion. And with regards to Town & Country 10
Village itself L-4.10, L-4.11, and L-4.12 Town & Country Village is an attractive retail center 11
serving Palo Altans and residents of wider vision region does not would not be consistent with 12
allowing software companies. 13
14
I also think Goal L-5 which is pretty skimpy I believe Commissioner Rosenblum mentioned this 15
with regards to employment districts there's not a lot here. And I think we need a lot more 16
about a lot stronger language about exploring about updating a pretty antiquated version of 17
allowing only R&D in the Research Park and actually that's really more from R&D to global 18
corporations and software companies. I think there could be a better use of some portion at 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
least of the Research Park for housing and for future school needs, perhaps even some of this 1
could be a requirement of the Stanford expansion plans. 2
3
And as to 7, 8, 9, and 10 I think they're pretty well fleshed out. But so my main interest was in 4
having a updated futuristic vision for the Research Park since it's the… and reevaluating 5
whether we want another million square feet of software companies rather than desperately 6
needed housing and probably in the future new school sites and preserving our commercial and 7
regional centers by restricting software companies, especially software companies of any size. 8
Thanks. 9
10
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I'm going to turn to Commissioner Lauing next. 11
12
Commissioner Lauing: Oh, ok. I was going to stay with the agenda 5 through 10, but I'll 13
comment on L-1 because that was my example originally for this process. What concerned me 14
about that was that it doesn't emphasize it doesn't prioritize neighborhoods. It leaves out the 15
obvious which is we want diverse neighborhoods for housing and that's major to us. It just 16
doesn't quite say that and we're not giving it enough commitment to future actions. So in 17
terms of the goal just slight wording changes I think gets us where we need to be which is that 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
we should have a compact and resilient city prioritizing diverse and vibrant neighborhoods with 1
existing compatibility with shopping and services, workplace, public facilities, parks and open 2
space. To do that I'd flop Policy 1.2 and 1.1 and call the new 1.1 [He said one two and one one. 3
Based on context I guessed he meant 1.2 and 1.1] strengthen and prioritize Palo Alto’s very 4
residential neighborhoods. And I would also take Program L-1.3.1 and make that a policy. Let's 5
have it as a policy that we really want BMR and let's not just identify, but eliminate barriers to 6
affordable market rate housing. Shifting over to five, got to get over there. 7
8
Commissioner Monk: What was that last one that you were referring to? 9
10
Commissioner Lauing: I'm sorry. 11
12
Commissioner Monk: What was the last policy you were referring to? 13
14
Commissioner Lauing: L-1.3.1 work with neighbors and associations to identify barriers on infill. 15
Five I just didn’t understand what the baseline was for quote reduce the number of auto trips. 16
So that’s just sort of how are we going to calculate that under 5.1? I thought the SRP language 17
was terrific. Exactly what the message is we need to be sending there. On L-6 it seemed like 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
coherent development patterns is a little fuzzy, but I think we sort of know what's going on 1
there. And yes, emphasizing compatibility with the surrounding development in the public 2
spaces even though it's not entirely happening now we need to emphasize that so it happens in 3
the future. Page L-40 Policy 6.7 I get concerned were all this hedging comes in into the 4
language. So where possible avoid abrupt changes in scale and density. I mean if it's a policy 5
let’s list it as a policy and if there has to be an exception then someday there has to be an 6
exception, but I'd rather have it listed without all those dependent clauses in there. 7
8
And I agree that most of the rest of it is well done. I thought that there were a couple things 9
like on Page L-47 L-9.9 involved the Urban Forester. I don't think we're not going to involve the 10
Urban Forester so that's a bit of what I call an apple pie thing. We're definitely going to do that. 11
I’m not sure it has to take up space. And that is it. Thank you. Who's next? 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Ok, with a minute and thirty six remaining. That’s not, that doesn't roll over. 14
That goes to (interrupted) 15
16
Commissioner Lauing: I yield my time to… 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: It goes to Gardias. Commissioner Gardias, please. You have five minutes. 1
2
Commissioner Gardias: Thank you. So I'd like to reiterate the point that I made before I read 3
the meeting minutes and I thought that I can do it better about the retail policies. I believe that 4
we should create a retail structure within Palo Alto that would allow different types and sizes of 5
vendors to sell to Palo Altans. And there should be a program that would allow that would 6
create the infrastructure for the vendors that want to sell on Palo Alto streets in alleys for food 7
trucks and would also create this program this way that newcomers to either to Palo Alto or to 8
California would be able to catch their opportunity by opening a retail business in Palo Alto and 9
grow if they succeed. This would allow us to create maybe competition and innovation and as 10
opposed to introducing restrictions on some businesses and that innovation would maybe 11
create possibly I hope would create some competition to the large corporations that have an 12
advantage of the scale like Amazon.com and hopefully would make this City more vibrant. So 13
this is in regards to this retail programs so pretty much I would like to just see the different 14
layers and structures of retail throughout the main districts of the town. 15
16
There are a couple of items about the employment districts. I believe that I would like to have 17
a policy or enhancement of [the rough] of one of those within this goal to limit employment, to 18
limit the… let me take it, take it back. To allow the companies to allow only small business 19
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
companies which is per I think Internal Revenue Service (IRS) definition which is which limits the 1
company to 500 employees. That's the small business. So I would like to see only those being 2
allowed within the employment districts outside of Stanford Research of course. And the 3
purpose is to pretty much to define certain size of the companies and limit to the larger ones. 4
Also I would like to allow for along El Camino which are suitable for transportation and also for 5
employment districts to increase the office sizes. 6
7
Side item which is outside of this goal I would like to have a see the policy that would 8
specifically discourage money laundering of existing real property. And that is I believe that 9
there is a growing number of the real estate holdings by some private individuals or 10
corporations not by the families as it used to be. At least within my area the ownership of the 11
housing of this family housing changes hands from individuals to some overseas owners and 12
some other investment corporations. 13
14
In terms of the of Goal L-6 I would like to see a policy that would identify public spaces and 15
defined build to line for those spaces. I think that a build to line is an important instrument of 16
planning and specifically public spaces may enjoy greater quality if such built to line is defined. 17
That's what at least when I was, when I worked as a planner that’s what was a typical tool of 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
this planning. I believe that I already talked about this, but I think that we should also define 1
the street space and there should be a policy or program for this. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Ok hold on. I’m going to go to the next Commissioner and I’m going to 4
encourage you to send the remaining of your comments in email, ok? 5
6
Commissioner Gardias: I have the last one if you don’t mind. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: I'll give you 30 seconds. 9
10
Commissioner Gardias: Ok, so the last one is that this there should be a policy that would allow 11
to trade daylight rights in some districts. Thank you. 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Thank you. Ok, Commissioner Monk and then I have Commissioner [Note Vice-14
Chair] Waldfogel. 15
16
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1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Monk: Referring to Page L-38 Policy L-5.1 want to ask staff to consider whether 1
these two distinctive concepts should remain together or be pulled apart and if so can you 2
please update the program accordingly? On to the next page at L-5.2 again look at what's 3
prescriptive. I mentioned that in the last meeting and for example you could remove language 4
such as remove grass turf. That just seems overly prescriptive to have in the Comp Plan. Also if 5
you could consider whether Policy L-6.1 is redundant to L-6.2. Moving to Page L-40 Policy L-6.4 6
I would suggest language that's more amenable to interpretation. I would replace in the 7
second line encourage the design of new development to maintain and support I would change 8
that to design of new development that is compatible with the existing character. I like 9
compatibility language rather than maintain and support language. You look at the Apple store 10
and I don't know where that fits into our whole scheme Downtown so I just think being 11
consistent makes sense. 12
13
Policy L-6.5 guide development to preserve views of the foothills makes more sense to me then 14
what's currently written. You have the word respect in there and I don't really know what that 15
means. L-41, Page L-41 ok so this is an important one, looking at Policy L-6.10 there should be I 16
think an allowance for some flexibility on the signage on El Camino. I think that's a 17
distinguishing thoroughfare and should be looked at in that regard. Moving on to the next page 18
Policy L-7.6 this to me is more of a structural suggestion in that it looks more like a program. I 19
suggest actually turning this into a program and then moving it possibly as to L-7.1.3. So that 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
would be the third program listed under that first policy. That would be more of a structural 1
suggestion. 2
3
Next page Policy 7.13 I would consider this to be broadened more historically and not in the 4
Downtown area and to wherever there else there might be buildings of historical significance. 5
L-44 which is the next page looking at Goal L-8 there are no programs underneath this goal. As 6
such I would consider moving policies 8.2, 8.3, and 8.6 as programs. Also looking at Policy 8.5 7
can you just evaluate whether or not that's a combination of 8.2 and 8.4? Moving on to Policy 8
8.7 I find this to be quite overly broad and I'd like to expand this to address the need for 9
collaboration between the religious and private institutions and the neighborhoods that 10
surround them to promote the benefit of the community. That was an issue that came up 11
recently, just looking to codify that further. 12
13
Moving on to Policy L-9.2 I would consider adding a program there. Policy 9.9 also looks more 14
like a program. It's listed as a policy so consider moving that into a program. Moving on to 15
Policy 9.11 I see three distinct concepts there and I think that those should be possibly 16
concerted as three different policies. And that's on Page L-47. 17
18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
I also had a general question about whether or not we have or need a wireless policy. I would 1
be interested in minimizing our footprint and looking at 9.12.2 if that would be supportive. 2
Finally and I'll probably go over by two seconds in regards to our airport policy I think we need 3
to encourage practices that prevent it from being a drain on City resources. I’d like staff to look 4
at creating revenue in excess of costs. Done. 5
6
Chair Alcheck: Ok, I have Commissioner [Note Vice-Chair] Waldfogel. 7
8
Vice-Chair Waldfogel: Thank you. I’d like to point out that there are a pretty big gaps between 9
the major themes of the Comprehensive Plan on I-2 to I-4 and the content of the Land Use 10
Element. So I think we need to spend I don’t want to spend time on it tonight, but I think the 11
themes are great. But they're not necessarily what's captured as we go through the rest of the 12
plan. 13
14
I just want to get to a couple specific things and it really I want to focus on the L-6 map for a 15
moment. I'd like to see, I'd like to echo Commissioner Summa’s comments about the 16
commercial districts distinction between commercial and employment districts. And on the 17
map I'd like us to recapture the employment district designations around light industrial, 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
research/office park, and I think it's major institution/special facility are the three areas that are 1
designated as employment district in previous and other maps. Sticking with the map for a 2
second maybe we should just throw in the towel and designate University possibly Hamilton to 3
Lytton, Alma to Bryant as a research/office as a research district. So grey that out on the map 4
rather than I don't know what this [purple-y] color is, but so that way we’d end up with a kind 5
of bright line distinction between what the employment district in Downtown is and the 6
commercial district. I also think we should contemplate some service commercial possibly 7
north of University along the Alma corridor. I mean we've been losing service. We should 8
contemplate some service commercial on Park Boulevard. We've lost a whole bunch of 9
particularly auto related services along Park Boulevard recently and I think that a service 10
commercial designation in that area would be helpful. We don't have I think it's Appendix X or 11
Y which is the Meadow specific plan. I hope that that has some content about housing 12
possibilities similar to discussions we've had about the Research Park and housing possibilities 13
in the Research Park, but I don't have a copy of that so I don't know. 14
15
And oh, and then same thing on Cal Ave. I think we may just want to throw in the towel on Cal 16
Ave. out to probably Ash Street maybe Birch Street and also designate that as a research 17
district. So again just acknowledge that there are office uses happening in these and let's just 18
draw a bright line between the employment district parts of these areas and the commercial 19
district parts of these areas. I mean that's something that has really been that's really been lost 20
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
in the land use and enforcement over the last decade. I think we have a chance to revisit that. 1
Thanks. That's it. 2
3
Chair Alcheck: Ok. I know it wasn’t I have to do that in order to turn it off. 4
5
Commissioner Monk: May I just offer consensus on what Commissioner Lauing stated earlier in 6
regards to policy/Program L-1.3.1. I didn’t have a chance to offer that earlier. Thank you. 7
Chair Alcheck: Was that a question or is that? Alright I think consensus now is sort of irrelevant, 8
but because we're going to do this exercise now. But I have a light from Commissioner Gardias. 9
If it's additional items I would like to encourage you to… it's one item. Can you do it in under a 10
minute? 11
12
Commissioner Gardias: Yes. Urban forest maintaining inventory of California Oaks. 13
14
Chair Alcheck: Now you have 56 seconds. Ok, that’s it. Thank you. Again you all know the 15
protocol so I'm not going repeat it. So I'm going to conclude this. 16
17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Commissioner Monk: In regards to approving the minutes? 1
2
Chair Alcheck: No, no. I'm not concluding the meeting. I’m concluding this item, this public 3
hearing. 4
Commission Action: No action was taken by the Commission. 5
6
7
APPROVAL OF MINUTES 8
Chair Alcheck: And I'm now going to seek a Motion to approve the minutes from July 26th and 9
July 9th. 10
11
Commissioner Monk: Can if Yolanda’s here did she… 12
13
Chair Alcheck: She’s not. 14
15
Commissioner Monk: Ok, I sent in red line feedback on both sets of minutes and I don't know if 16
she received them. I'm hoping she did and was able to make some of those changes. 17
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Jonathan Lait, Assistant Director: Yeah if they were minor I would imagine… 2
3
Commissioner Monk: They were pretty minor. 4
5
Mr. Lait: Yeah so we would make those changes. 6
Commissioner Monk: Thank you. 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Would you like to make a Motion? 9
10
Commissioner Monk: In that event I'd like to move that we approve the minutes from? 11
12
Chair Alcheck: July 26th and August 9th. 13
14
Commissioner Monk: July 26th do we need? And August 9th. 15
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
1
Commissioner Lauing: I have to abstain from the 26th because I (interrupted) 2
3
Commissioner Monk: [Unintelligible] going to do two Motions. 4
5
Chair Alcheck: Ok. 6
7
MOTION #1 8
9
Commissioner Monk: So I'd like to move that we approve the minutes from July 26th. 10
11
SECOND, VOTE 12
13
Chair Alcheck: Ok, second. All those in favor please say aye. That is one abstention 14
Commissioner Lauing and unanimous support. 15
16
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
MOTION #1 PASSED (6-0-1, Commissioner Lauing abstained) 1
2
MOTION #2 3
4
Commissioner Monk: I’d like to make the Motion to approve the minutes from August 9th. 5
6
SECOND, VOTE 7
8
Chair Alcheck: Second. All those in favor of supporting approving the minutes from August 9th 9
say aye. Who do I have here? Are you supporting? Ok that’s six in support with one 10
abstention by Commissioner Rosenblum. And I'm sorry I think it was six in support of the last 11
one I might have said five. 12
13
MOTION #2 PASSED (6-0-1, Commissioner Rosenblum abstained) 14
15
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Chair Alcheck: Ok, any Commissioner comments, questions, announcements, committee items, 1
anything? Seeing none I am going to adjourn this meeting it is 10:23. Oh gosh. I think your… I 2
think you might have missed it. 10:23. Thank you all for coming. 3
Approval of Minutes 4
Public Comment is Permitted. Five (5) minutes per speaker.1,3 5
5. July 26, 2017 Draft Planning & Transportation Commission Meeting Minutes 6
Commission Action: Motion made by Commissioner Monk to approve the minutes from 7
July 26, 2017, seconded by Chair Alcheck. Motion passed 6-1 (Commissioner Lauing 8
abstained) 9
6. August 9, 2017 Draft Planning & Transportation Commission Meeting Minutes 10
Commission Action: Motion made by Commissioner Monk to approve the minutes from 11
August 9, 2017, seconded by Chair Alcheck; motion passed 6-1 (Commissioner 12
Rosenblum abstained) 13
Committee Items 14
Commissioner Questions, Comments or Announcements 15
Adjournment 16
17
10:18pm 18
_______________________
1. Spokespersons that are representing a group of five or more people who are identified as present at the meeting at
the time of the spokesperson’s presentation will be allowed up to fifteen (15) minutes at the discretion of the Chair,
provided that the non-speaking members agree not to speak individually.
2. The Chair may limit Oral Communications to 30 minutes for all combined speakers.
3. The Chair may reduce the allowed time to speak to three minutes to accommodate a larger number of speakers.
Palo Alto Planning & Transportation Commission 1
Commissioner Biographies, Present and Archived Agendas and Reports are available online: 2
http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/gov/boards/ptc/default.asp. The PTC Commission members are: 3
4
Chair Michael Alcheck 5
Vice Chair Asher Waldfogel 6
Commissioner Przemek Gardias 7
Commissioner Ed Lauing 8
Commissioner Susan Monk 9
Commissioner Eric Rosenblum 10
Commissioner Doria Summa 11
12
Get Informed and Be Engaged! 13
View online: http://midpenmedia.org/category/government/city-of-palo-alto or on Channel 26. 14
15
Show up and speak. Public comment is encouraged. Please complete a speaker request card 16
located on the table at the entrance to the Council Chambers and deliver it to the Commission 17
Secretary prior to discussion of the item. 18
19
Write to us. Email the PTC at: Planning.Commission@CityofPaloAlto.org. Letters can be 20
delivered to the Planning & Community Environment Department, 5th floor, City Hall, 250 21
Hamilton Avenue, Palo Alto, CA 94301. Comments received by 2:00 PM two Tuesdays preceding 22
the meeting date will be included in the agenda packet. Comments received afterward through 23
2:00 PM the day of the meeting will be presented to the Commission at the dais. 24
25
Material related to an item on this agenda submitted to the PTC after distribution of the 26
agenda packet is available for public inspection at the address above. 27
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