HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-12-12 Policy & Services Committee Summary MinutesPOLICY AND SERVICES COMMITTEE
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Special Meeting December 12, 2017
Chairperson Wolbach called the meeting to order at 6:07 P.M. in the
Community Meeting Room, 250 Hamilton Avenue, Palo Alto, California.
Present: DuBois, Kniss, Kou, Wolbach (Chair)
Absent:
Oral Communications
Chair Wolbach: Alright, the first Item is, before Action Items, Oral Communications. We have one speaker, Jennifer Laudesmann.
Jennifer Laudesmann: Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: You’ll have 3-minutes.
Ms. Laudesmann: Hello, I don’t know if this is working. Thank you, Happy
Hanukkah. I am here tonight – first I understand that Staff is going to be
running a meeting on jet noise at this is more about your Agenda for the
early part of the year. It’s very good but I’m concerned about enough time
from Council and enough time from you to address this issue that is very
dynamic and a lot of things are happening. I want – because of that timing,
I want to make sure that everything is covered and you get this information.
I’m here to ask you to please add to your Agenda for your first meeting of
the year the Item for jet noise and as regards legal conversations about this
topic. The second reason that I am here it so ask you to please,
Commission, a legal analysis of airspace procedures which impact the City if
Palo Alto. To document briefly history before Next Gen., with Next Gen., the
statues of environmental reviews, admin – current status of the
administrative record of the federal agency, review where and how
cumulative impacts are being considered and very importantly, consider new
information that we have obtained in the last 6 months. I’ll give you an
example, (inaudible) which is the northern arrivals, is a very big route that
impacts the City and there has been a shift from the eastern leg to the
western leg. That, for example, was not comprised in the environmental
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review done in 2014 because that decision had to do with something else
related to the Asiana accident. So, what it’s not part of the review, it means
that it’s still required to have a review because the impacts are major. A
legal analysis is conducted by an attorney would be able to point that out to
you so that when you’re asked how you feel about laws being obverse in this
process, you would be able to answer. I’ve brought four documents for your
consideration. One is a sample of what an investigation of procedures done
by a law firm is done when City Attorney Molly Stump hosted a meeting with
an Aviation Attorney. He taught us about the importance of Environmental Reviews. It’s the only way we can address impacts and mitigations so this is
a sample. It could be done for each of the three routes that impact Palo Alto.
The other one is an example of an inquiry into an EA that was never done in
the mid-2000s. I strongly encourage you to do some holiday reading with
this but really it should be the attorney that does that so that he can write a
Report. Another example of when an environmental review was not done
and lastly, open question from a citizen in Palo Alto. You may know
Professor Robert Finn. He attended the meeting with the City Attorney and
the Aviation Attorney recently and he has some really, really great questions
and I think they reflect what a lot of Palo Alto citizens are wondering about.
Thank you very much and I’ve sent a cover to that as well. Have a very
happy holiday season, thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you.
Agenda Items
1. Review and Recommendation to the City Council of an Ordinance
Amending Sections 4.42.190 (Taxi Meters) and 4.42.200 (Schedule of
Rates, Display) of Chapter 4.42 of Title 4 (Business and License
Regulations) of the Palo Alto Municipal Code to Allow Taxicab Service
to be Prearranged by Mobile Device Application and Internet Online
Service. This Action is Exempt Under Section 15061(b)(3) of the
California Environmental Quality Act.
Chair Wolbach: Alright, let’s move onto our first Action Item. A review and
recommendation to the City Council of an Ordinance amending Section
4.42.190 (taxi meters). Also – actually, I’m not going to read all the
numbers but a schedule of rates and display. Also, business and license
regulations of the Palo Alto Municipal Code to allow taxicab service to be
prearranged by mobile device application and internet online service. Staff,
do you want to make a presentation.
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Rob de Geus, Deputy City Manager: I’ll introduce Deputy Director of
Technical Services, is that right Charlie?
Charles Cullen, Deputy Director of Technical Services: Yes, it’s a mouth full
(inaudible).
Mr. de Geus: Charlie Cullen.
Mr. Cullen: Thank you, Rob and distinguished Council Members. This is the –
the intention of this revision to the Municipal Code (Muni Code) is to level
the playing field for the cab companies. We regulate the cab companies that
operate here in Palo Alto. We’ve had a number of requests over the years with the emergent of Lyft and Uber, that are not regulated by the City and
are regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC), to change
the way that the cabs do business and allow them to offer an online service
with a pre-set fair. We’ve had a considerable discussion with the City’s
Attorney’s Office, we came up with some minor revisions to the existing
Ordinance. There is legislation in – statewide legislation that was signed by
Governor Brown that goes into effect in January of 2019 that will require
corporation within all the county municipalities to come up with a consistent
policy. In the interim of this year, at least this will allow the taxi cabs to
have an online app where people can order a cab similar to how they use
Uber or Lyft. It levels the playing field and I think it allows for a more
competitive environment for the citizens of Palo Alto who want a cab.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Did you say what the app was going to be called?
Mr. Cullen: We don’t know what the app is going to be called.
Vice Mayor Kniss: They’ll have something that is similar to Lyft.
Mr. Cullen: Right and be something you download onto your phone and you
can order a cab just like you do a Lyft or an Uber vehicle. This is our –
Heather Johnson has done a great deal of work with the taxicab companies.
She does the permitting, she actually does the inspections of the taxi cabs
and it's very familiar with what other municipalities have done here both in
Santa Clara County and San Mateo County and what some of the pending
legislation. So, if you have any pending questions, she knows the minutiae
of the taxicab rules here in Santa Clara County.
Chair Wolbach: Did you want to add anything before we go to Council
Member questions or comments?
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Heather Johnson, Code Enforcement Officer: I don’t have anything to add.
Chair Wolbach: Alright, I’ll turn to my Colleagues for question, comments,
and Motions. Tom, you raised your hand first.
Council Member DuBois: I mean the Ordinance looks pretty straightforward,
I’m just curious so this is for taxicab companies. Are Uber and Lyft regulated
under these Ordinances?
Ms. Johnson: They are regulated by the CPUC.
Mr. Cullen: So, municipalities do not have any authority over Uber or Lyft
because they are considered an internet company and/or similar to limousines. They are only regulated by the CPUC, we do not have the
authority to regulate (inaudible).
Council Member DuBois: So, a taxi company mostly uses the app, would
they become no regulated by the City anymore?
Mr. Cullen: No, they still fall under the regulations of a taxi because they
operate as a taxi cab, they have a meter in their vehicle etc. So, they would
still remain – they would still require a permit from us to operate in the City
of Palo Alto. It just allows them to add an app feature that they didn’t have
in the past and provide a pre-set fair, correct?
Ms. Johnson: Correct.
Mr. Cullen: Similar to what when you ask for Uber, they tell you how much
it’s going to cost you before you get into the vehicle.
Ms. Johnson: There are still rates that have to be posted on the taxis for any
hailed taxies or someone who’s called but this way there’s an opportunity if
the demand is low for them to use an app and actually charge less. So,
anyone who uses the app to hail a taxi will never pay more, they will actually
pay less depending on demand.
Mr. Cullen: Some of the advantages that taxi cabs have that you don’t get
with Uber and Lyft is they do have requirements to have a certain amount of
cabs that are handicap equipped. There are some people, believe it or not,
who don’t use the internet and still call cabs on the phone so having that
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service provides something that you don’t necessarily get because they are
regulated.
Council Member DuBois: I mean the change to the Ordinance looked very
simple so thanks for bringing it to us.
Chair Wolbach: Lydia, go ahead.
Council Member Kou: Just continuing with Tom’s question about Uber and
Lyft not being regulated. Are taxicabs regulated by the CPUC?
Ms. Johnson: No, they are regulated by individual Cities…
Council Member Kou: Individual Cities.
Ms. Johnson: …that choose to regulate. Not every single City chooses to
regulate. In Santa Clara County, as far as the northern part of the County,
only Santa Clara, San Jose, Sunnyvale and Palo Alto. Mountain View has an
Ordinance but it’s really just a business permit that is operated through the
Finance Department.
Council Member Kou: I see.
Mr. Cullen: So, it’s up to the individual City whether or not.
Council Member Kou: Uber and Lyft have the carpool, right? They do
carpooling also so would taxi cabs be allowed to? I noticed in the Staff
Report it says that their little thing in their meter when somebody is in there
cannot be up but would there an app that would allow them to also to ride
share – I mean, wait, rideshare is different from carpool, right?
Ms. Johnson: Correct, yeah, no I understand what you’re asking us so no,
they would not be allowed to pick up more than one passenger at a time.
Council Member Kou: They get tips, right?
Ms. Johnson: They can accept tips.
Council Member Kou: Is it handled the same way on the internet at the Uber
and Lyft is handled? How does Uber and Lyft handle tips?
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Mr. Cullen: No, I think there’s an option on the application itself that you can
add a tip to the fare if you want to. How they develop their app, we’re not
sure if they would have that feature as part of it. I assume they would since
they do rely on tips.
Ms. Johnson: Santa Clara and San Jose have been allowing this – has been
allowing them to use their app for depending – San Jose since 2015 and
Santa Clara since 2016 and both of them have been happy with it. They
have not had any challenges with it. I don’t know in regards to the tipping
but I would assume.
Council Member Kou: Ok and then I think I have something here, just a
minute because I think Tom just asked this. Ok, yeah, I guess you’ve
answered everything that I have here and it looks pretty straightforward and
will be more fair, right?
Mr. Cullen: We think so, yeah.
Ms. Johnson: Yeah, I don’t see any disadvantage.
Council Member Kou: Even with how they drive on the road and when they
park to pick up people, that’s regulated by the Police Department also, right?
Mr. Cullen: Yes, they need to obey the regulations and we have set up a cab
stand here by Lytton Plaza on the weekend nights which has worked fairly
well for people coming out of the bars and restaurants.
Ms. Johnson: They are just required to legally park. We all know that they don’t but that is the regulation.
Mr. Cullen: So, are Lyft and Uber although…
Council Member Kou: Yeah, Uber, I am noticing more and more Uber and
Lyft just kind of pulling in. Sometimes the back end is sticking out on the
road so it causes from traffic issues also. I haven’t seen so many taxis doing
it anymore. It’s more the Lyft and Uber but it is – taxis would be regulated
by the City but Uber and Lyft would be…
Ms. Johnson: Correct.
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Mr. Cullen: But if Uber and Lyft were violating traffic regulations or parking
regulations, they could be cited just like any other vehicle or enforcement.
Council Member Kou: The fines are not hire or is it even the same for…
Mr. Cullen: The violation fines are the same. It’s based on the violation, not
the person who it’s issued too.
Council Member Kou: How would we complain to CPUC if we see – I mean
no, I guess it would calling the Police Department if they violated?
Mr. Cullen: If you see a parking or traffic violation, absolutely you can call us
and if we have an officer in the area, we’ll send them outright a way.
Council Member Kou: Ok, well thank you. Are you with the Police
Department?
Council Member Kou: Are you with the Police Department?
Ms. Johnson: I am, yes.
Mr. Cullen: She’s a Commuty Service Officer and handles a lot of our other
permitting and regulations. Including alarms, block parties and…
Ms. Johnson: Solicitation…
Mr. Cullen: …solicitation.
Ms. Johnson: …helicopter lifts.
Mr. Cullen: A lot of things so very busy person.
Ms. Johnson: It’s fun.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you. Liz, yes, Liz go ahead.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Some of the other things that have come to mind are
there’s a taxi stand – ah, thanks. I have a hard time remembering that.
Taxis have a place where you could – I mean if you want a cab, you know
where this cab stand or usually in front of a hotel…
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Mr. Cullen: Hotel, yes.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Right. Would be pretty common so Uber and Lyft don’t
use those as I recall.
Ms. Johnson: They don’t.
Vice Mayor Kniss: So, it’s – I don’t know if that’s illegal or if that just doesn’t
happen but I noticed they don’t use those.
Ms. Johnson: Yes, it would be illegal but like our taxi stand that we have on
Lytton Plaza is only available for limited hours; Thursday, Friday, and
Saturday evening. I’m not exactly on the hours but I think it’s like 8-2 and if anyone else is in there, we will tow and we do. We tow every month cars
that are parked there, they went to dinner and didn’t pay attention to the
sign but no, Lyft drivers could not.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Wow, that must surprise some people when they come
out, doesn’t it? So, because these are really quite different in a way, what
you’re saying is here’s a new way to call a cab essentially. You’re right,
many people still call a cab. They don’t on an app especially because there
isn’t an app yet but it would – it’s interesting because they are such different
services whereas Lyft and Uber both use surge and things like that to control
the fare. Do you think cabs are going to do the same because they pretty
much have a set price?
Ms. Johnson: Correct.
Mr. Cullen: They do. I think there will be some surge pricing.
Ms. Johnson: Never higher than our…
Mr. Cullen: Than what their…
Ms. Johnson: …what their rates are.
Mr. Cullen: …meter grade is. Yes, so it’s a little -- actually a little bit more
competitive.
Vice Mayor Kniss: That’s quite a bit different.
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Ms. Johnson: It is different.
Chair Wolbach: If I could hop in so that means they could go – sorry to
interrupt, I just want to ask. That means they could go below their standard
but unlike Uber or Lyft, they couldn’t go above their standard?
Ms. Johnson: Correct.
Chair Wolbach: Forgive me for jumping in, go ahead.
Vice Mayor Kniss: No but that’s interesting because I think there’s some
distinct difference and I’m delighted that there’ll be an app but I think lots of
people that use cabs are either older or have handicaps or they are just in town and they walk out of their hotel and there’s a cab. So, I think this is
good and I’m delighted but I wouldn’t want people to think these – they are
not one in the same. Whereas Lyft and Uber far fairly close including Lyft
Line and so forth.
Ms. Johnson: Correct.
Vice Mayor Kniss: This is quite different, especially if they can’t carry more
than one passenger.
Ms. Johnson: Correct.
Mr. Cullen: Well, they can carry more than one passenger.
Ms. Johnson: Yes, just one fare.
Mr. Cullen: They wouldn’t do the rideshare where they stop pick up one
person, pick up the next person and yes, essentially a carpool.
Vice Mayor Kniss: If two people walk out of the same time and realize they
are going to the same place, they could share the cab…
Ms. Johnson: Sure, right.
Vice Mayor Kniss: …and split the fare.
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Ms. Johnson: I just wanted to clarify that the app actually does exist and it’s
being utilized. It’s just that it isn’t permitted in our City so they haven’t been
able to use it.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Yes, I’m sorry, I misspoke on that, that it doesn’t exist.
So, after night and after it goes back through Council, it will exist?
Ms. Johnson: Yes.
Vice Mayor Kniss: How will we publicize that if we are going to?
Mr. Cullen: Well, I think the cab companies will certainly publicize it and that
is because it’s to their benefit. Absolutely to let people know that….
Vice Mayor Kniss: There must be times when you are in a situation where
you think somebody needs a cab or needs Lyft. How do you decide?
Mr. Cullen: I think our officers in the field do that quite a bit. Particularly, on
Friday and Saturday nights and they’ll hail a cab here or they’ll have
somebody here, use your app and get them this. This could be one
additional tool that we could tell people about in the field.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Because you’re not going to drive home, right.
Mr. Cullen: Exactly.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Ok, no, that’s very helpful and I’m glad to see this
because I’ve thought about this for quite a while. One other thing, San
Jose’s rule, as I recall, is once you get in a cab in San Jose at the airport,
there’s a flat rate. I think it’s $15 and it doesn’t matter where you go.
Ms. Johnson: I’m not familiar with that, I’m sorry.
Vice Mayor Kniss: It is, I mean that (crosstalk) (inaudible) but I don’t
imagine we’ll do anything that’s like that.
Mr. Cullen: I don’t think we’ve thought about regulating the fares in that
manner right now.
Vice Mayor Kniss: They did it in San Jose because people frequently were at
the airport and went 5-minutes away and it was…
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Mr. Cullen: Charge $50 or something.
Vice Mayor Kniss: … it was the very low price. Ok, thanks.
Mr. Cullen: Well, thank you.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Good to know it’s going to happen. Do you want me to
make a Motion or do you have some questions?
Chair Wolbach: I was going to make the Motion but if you want to, go
ahead.
Vice Mayor Kniss: I would move the recommendation which is it says that
we adopt the proposed revised Municipal Code 4.42 in order to allow cab service to be prearranged so mobile device application and internet online
service.
Chair Wolbach: Second.
MOTION: Vice Mayor Kniss moved, seconded by Chair Wolbach to
recommend the City Council adopt the proposed, revised Palo Alto Municipal
Code 4.42 in order to allow taxicab service to be prearranged through a
mobile device application and an internet online service.
Vice Mayor Kniss: I don’t have anything further to say. I’m glad it’s going to
happen.
Chair Wolbach: I’ll just say good work.
Ms. Johnson: Thank you.
Mr. Cullen: Thank you very much.
Chair Wolbach: Any other questions or comments on the Motion? Very good.
All in favor of the Motion? Passes unanimously, thank you so much.
Mr. Cullen: Thanks, have a good night.
Vice Mayor Kniss: You too.
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Chair Wolbach: You too.
MOTION PASSED: 4-0
Chair Wolbach: Ok, moving onto our second Item of the evening, discussion,
and recommendation for 2018 City Council Priorities setting process. I’ll just
preempt something that I’m sure Staff will point out as well but we are
discussing the process, not the priorities this evening.
Mr. de Geus: That’s right and actually Jim Keene – City Manager Jim Keene
wanted to be here for this. I’m not sure, he might have thought the meeting
started at 7:00 P.M.
Chair Wolbach: Do you want to ping him? We could…
Mr. de Geus: I just did.
Chair Wolbach: …I’d be ok with maybe a little Staff presentation while we’re
waiting for Jim or we can even reorder and do three while we’re looking for
him. If he wants to be present for this, I think we should give him the
opportunity if he’s in the building.
Council Member DuBois: Why don’t we do Number 3?
Mr. de Geus: Number 3. I’m waiting for Terence from the Attorney’s Office, I
pinged him as well. I don’t know if both thing we started at 7:00.
Chair Wolbach: Alright, let’s take five…
Council Member DuBois: Future Agendas?
Mr. de Geus: I mean we could do that.
Chair Wolbach: Let’s take five.
Mr. de Geus: Take five minutes and I can text him as well.
Chair Wolbach: If they show up, then we’ll start as soon as one -- either of
them gets here.
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Council Member DuBois: Seriously, do you want to (inaudible) Future
Agendas?
Chair Wolbach: Ok, well sure. Yeah, if…
Council Member DuBois: Plan getting out of here early.
Chair Wolbach: Can we do that?
Vice Mayor Kniss: I didn’t hear what you say, Tom.
Council Member DuBois: I said should we do Future Agendas and just get it
out of the way?
Vice Mayor Kniss: Sure.
Chair Wolbach: Are we ok to change the order around a little bit?
Mr. de Geus: Yeah, we certainly can.
At this time the Committee heard Future Meetings and Agendas.
Future Meetings and Agendas
Rob de Geus, Deputy City Manager: Does everybody have the copy of the
Future Agenda Items?
Chair Wolbach: At Place and looks like this?
Mr. de Geus: Yeah, that’s the one. I do.
Jessica Brettle, Assistant City Clerk: Thank you.
Mr. de Geus: Did you find you're (inaudible)?
Vice Mayor Kniss: Well, I’ve got a lot of other stuff here, I’m not sure I’ve
got that one here. Thanks.
Mr. de Geus: It’s unlikely we’ll have a meeting in January just because of the
selection of the Committees and so on. So, I think the first meeting is going
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to be in February, February 13th. We have these Items here as tentative or
potential Items and on the back Page, we have a variety of whatever reports
that Harriet would like to bring forward. I know that the Community Health
Needs Assessment from the Fire Department is ready to go according to the
Chief and so is the Library collaboration with the school district according to
Monique.
Chair Wolbach: The recommendations from the Human Relations
Commission (HRC), Item Three, that’s going to need to go to Council first.
Mr. de Geus: It goes to Council first before…
Chair Wolbach: I don’t know if we’re going to have – I don’t know if that’s on
the Council’s Agenda in January to get to.
Mr. de Geus: It’s on the tentative, I’m not sure where exactly but it is to go
to Council first because it’s the Human Relations Commission and they
advise the full Council. Yes, it is so we could certainly do the Community
Health Needs Assessment and the library collaboration.
Council Member DuBois: So, this group has been the group (inaudible) about
jet noise so (inaudible) that one on the Agenda.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Tom, can you talk louder? For some reason (crosstalk)
(inaudible) an odd angle.
Council Member DuBois: The issue about jet noise has come to Policy and
Services several times so I’m wondering if we should get that on the Agenda.
Chair Wolbach: I don’t think that’s an unreasonable suggestion at all.
Mr. de Geus: Ok, I’ll put that on here.
Council Member DuBois: I’m just curious…
Vice Mayor Kniss: It has come several times though, correct?
Council Member DuBois: Yeah, we funded hiring a consultant before the
hearings. Why the Bryant Street Garage Fund change its name? I’m curious.
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Mr. de Geus: The teens wanted it to change. I thought it was pretty cool
actually.
Council Member DuBois: I think it’s a cool name.
Mr. de Geus: So, did I but they didn’t remember the all-teen center on
Bryant Street and so they requested it.
Council Member DuBois: Get some new teens to switch it back.
Mr. de Geus: There’s likely to be, and we’ll have to defer to Harriet on this,
the City Auditor. She did say that there were some time limits to some
things coming in February as I recall so there will probably be one of two audit items and that’s probably enough right there.
Chair Wolbach: It looks pretty good. Any other questions or comments about
Future Agendas?
Council Member DuBois: Just these audit items are a lot of these really short
status updates or they like the items?
Mr. de Geus: I think most of them are status updates.
At this time, the Committee heard Agenda Item Number 3.
3. Discussion and Recommendation to Council Regarding Anti-idling
Ordinance
Chair Wolbach: Alright, well it looks like we can move on from this one and
go to – we’re going to change the order of the Agenda, which I’m getting the
nod from the City Attorney that we can do that. So, we’re going to do Item Number 3 which is discussion and recommendation to Council regarding the
Anti-idling Ordinance and then after that, we’ll come back to Item Two, the
discussion and recommendation for 2018 City Council priority-setting
process. So, Staff, do you want to take it away on number three?
Rob de Geus, Deputy City Manager: Sure, thanks, Chair Wolbach. I’ll do a
little introduction here. I’m joined here with Nick Oliver, one of our City
Attorneys and worked on the draft Ordinance. By way of background this
came from the Council to Staff as a Colleague’s Memo, August 28th is when
it was before Council. Essentially the Colleague’s Memo made the case that
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idling is – long-term idling is a problem and it would be good if we could
encourage a change in behavior where people would turn off their engines
after two to three minutes of sitting in one place. So that was sort of the
reason behind the thinking of maybe an Ordinance would be appropriate
here. When Staff got that direction Council, we reviewed a number of
Ordinances from around the Country that have similar type Ordinances and
we began to draft one. So, what you have in your Packet a draft and what’s
in that draft is information and language that we saw in the Colleague’s
Memo from the Council and some of the language we thought was most appropriate and fitting from the other Ordinances that we reviewed. In term
of the discussion this evening, of course, Council can ask – Council Members
can ask any question they’d like but there are two areas where I think some
substantive discussion could be had. One of those is under the section of
definitions and specifically – oh, it’s a restriction of vehicle idling actually; it’s
on Packet Page 88, 10.62.030.
Vice Mayor Kniss: What Page (inaudible)?
Mr. de Geus: Packet Page 88 and it’s the second Page of the draft
Ordinance. Section 10.62.030B.
Chair Wolbach: These are the exceptions?
Mr. de Geus: Those are the exceptions and what we – the approach we took
was we included all of the exceptions that we saw in other Ordinances so you’ve got the sort of suite of exceptions that people have or other Cities
have. You may then go through here and say ah, that one doesn’t really
seem like an appropriate exception or not but rather than trying to think of
additional exceptions that we didn’t have. We’ve put them all in here and I
think that’s a point of discussion and the second one is on the last Page is
about enforcement and how do we enforce an Ordinance like this? We
drafted a number of potential options to let’s just say. I think Option 3 and 4
in my view is actually not likely without additional resources to be able to
enforce it. So, as you read in the Staff Report, I think an Ordinance like this
is more – obviously more of an educational kind of Ordinance; that we’re
trying to educate and make people more aware of the damage they do the
environment by allowing the car to idle for long periods of time. The third
thing I guess if there’s a topic of discussion is an Ordinance the right tool for
trying to change behavior like this when we can’t really enforce it. I bring it
up because we do have Ordinances that we then don’t enforce and then we
get criticized for not enforcing it and (inaudible) add another one of those
and I have some concerns.
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Vice Mayor Kniss: Can I ask one question?
Mr. de Geus: Yeah.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Is there not a State law that addresses trucks idling?
Mr. de Geus: I’m not aware of one.
Nicolas Oliver, Legal Fellow: There is one, it’s actually referenced in Section
1 under B of the Ordinance that summarizes the current State laws.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Let me find it because I knew it existed but I didn’t see it
when I was…
Chair Wolbach: Packet Page 87.
Mr. Oliver: Sorry, yeah.
Council Member Kou: Over 10,000 lbs.
James Keene, City Manager: Packet Page 87, yeah.
Vice Mayor Kniss: I don’t know how many – I doubt that there are a lot of
trucks that are idling in Palo Alto. I think it’s more out on the major
highways and so forth but I thought that was really interesting and I don’t
know where that came from to start with but it’s interesting that it exists,
the truck law.
Mr. Oliver: Yes, and we’ve actually seen some cities, I think San Francisco
has done this, have just posted signs referencing those regulations in areas
to try to influence behavior.
Chair Wolbach: Any more questions Liz? I just want to make sure we’re finished on the Staff presentation. I didn’t want to – ok, any other questions
Liz from you…
Vice Mayor Kniss: … the obvious ones which is if you don’t have an
Ordinance, how do you enforce and I’d be interested in knowing what you
think. I’d rather not start with an Ordinance but I know that one of the areas
that’s been the most subject to this is at schools because parents pull in,
especially if it’s chilly out, and they stay in that circle, if there is one at the
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school, and they don’t turn the car off. They sit in the car and it idles and I
think – I don’t know how do you put signs up if it’s not an Ordinance? How
do you do education without it being punitive?
Mr. de Geus: We do that. I’m trying to think of a good example where we’re
trying to encourage people to behave in a certain way but it’s not an
Ordinance. The one that I can think of, although maybe it’s not a good
example because I think we created an Ordinance around it, is feeding the
ducks at the duck pond. Which is not good for the ducks but so we put signs
up educating people about why that’s appropriate.
Vice Mayor Kniss: They feed them all the time, right?
Mr. de Geus: They do it anyway but you know it’s more of – it’s an
educational campaign so it could be signage that explains why we don’t want
people to behave this way. This schools it's through newsletters and the PTA
asking for their support.
Vice Mayor Kniss: But if we don’t have an Ordinance, how do we get them to
do that? Just goodwill?
Mr. de Geus: Yeah, it is good will based but even with an Ordinance, I don’t
know that we – we don’t have the resources that we would be able to
enforce it and be ticketing people for idling.
Vice Mayor Kniss: No, I totally agree with that. I agree that we don’t have
those resources and don’t want to provide them necessarily. I just want to know how can we – how could we make this work without – as I said,
without something punitive at the end of the line?
Mr. de Geus: That’s a fair question, the Ordinance does allow for us to find
someone if we create the Ordinance – write the Ordinance like that but in
reality, we won’t be out there doing that so that’s the…
Vice Mayor Kniss: So, let’s come at it another way, you say don’t feed the
ducks at the duck pond and they feed them anyway. Does anyone come
along and tell them not too and say that is has been suggested that you not
feed the ducks?
Mr. de Geus: We have made progress on this by the way actually. I should
commend the rangers out there at the Bay Lands and they do and that’s
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really what makes a difference; is when you have a conversation with
someone and you say here’s why and people are like ah, I understand. I
think with idling it’s the same sort of thing. I don’t think people are really
thinking about it often that they could be damaging the environment.
Vice Mayor Kniss: You are saying that we could put some signs up
regardless of the fact that we don’t have an Ordinance?
Mr. Keene: Sure.
Mr. de Geus: For sure, yeah.
Mr. Keene: I mean we could think about, I don’t want to say empathetic signs but signs that would actually explain what it is that we’re trying to do.
You test drive this, no pun intended, and you see what happens. See
whether or not we’re affected or not. I mean think of the flip side part of it,
even if we had the resources, cops walking around the turn into the school
writing tickets for parents are they are dropping the kids off. I’m not exactly
sure that that’s going to go over well either. I mean it’s going to seem like
overkill.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Probably not.
Mr. Keene: It’s going to seem like overkill so…
Vice Mayor Kniss: Does it mean then that in this recommendation tonight, if
we want signage we should include that I think. We should recommend that
you attempt to find ways to include signage in this and I don’t know quite how you’re going to do it. Also, you might find that the schools are willing to
get involved.
Mr. Keene: I think we have to (inaudible).
Vice Mayor Kniss: Part of this is about air pollution and part of it is about
public health and that’s why it’s done. As I said I don’t want to be mean and
testy about it but I think it really does have some merit so that’s what I
would like to see. If we’re not going the Ordinance route, let’s go at least
good signage.
Mr. de Geus: Right.
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Mr. Oliver: I would also comment on the school topic. They’re regulated
even more strictly under State law so school buses and school serving buses
can only idle for thirty seconds prior to departure. It’s a lot stricter than the
five-minute rule for large diesel vehicles and so signs could also point to that
thirty-second rule.
Vice Mayor Kniss: We don’t have any buses though.
Mr. Oliver: Oh, there’s none in the City?
Vice Mayor Kniss: (Inaudible) (crosstalk) we have school mothers and dads
who drive and I just think they probably aren’t aware of this.
Mr. de Geus: The question I have and maybe it’s a question for you Nick or
Terence is, is there any value in having an Ordinance like this where there is
not an expectation of enforcement or is that this is not an appropriate tool or
mechanism for that?
Council Member DuBois: Liz, if you are done I’d like to make some
comments.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Dive in.
Council Member DuBois: So, I kind of go in the opposite direction… I think I
was one of the memos of the – one of the Colleague’s on the Memo, as were
you Liz. I don’t – I didn’t necessarily want a lot of signs around town and I
think we have Ordinances about smoking, about loitering, about feeding
ducks and it’s useful to have the Ordinance; even if it’s not something we’re going to enforce all the time. I think we leave those things up to the
discretion of our police officers and they are there in extreme cases, right?
So, if somebodies smoking everyday right in front of City Hall and it happens
over and over and over again, we have something we can do but I’m sure
first thing you do is say hey, we have a no smoking Ordinance. Same thing
with duck feeding and these other things so I think an Ordinance is a good
idea. I think we should have some form of enforcement even if we rarely use
it; just for kind of extreme conditions and you know I think we should just
start with that. I don’t necessarily want to put up a bunch of signs all over
town that say don’t idle. You know we don’t have a lot of no smoking signs
in parks and that kind of stuff so I’d be careful about too much permanent
signage or that kind of stuff. So, that’s kind of what my thinking is.
Chair Wolbach: Lydia, do you want to weigh in on this one?
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Council Member Kou: Yes, please. I put down some notes and I was thinking
they did mention schools where one of the areas and you did say that it was
highly regulated for the buses and so forth. Then with the parents hanging
out, waiting for the kids to come out or dropping off, I would like to see that
you partner with --- that we partner with Palo Alto Unified School District
(PAUSD). So, for their guards that are out there moving cars along, whether
it’s a parent or volunteer or one of the teachers. Perhaps they could have
flyers that they give out to the parents if they see them idling. I was reading
them in the Appaloosa law over here and its mostly educational tool versus really being enforced. So, even when they see other people idling, they give
a ticket but the ticket is actually a flyer to educate so I think that might be a
way to do it rather than having all the signs all around town. I think we
might need some – now commercial vehicles are also pretty – they actually
have a large part in a lot of the emissions right so you know when we do our
construction management agreement -- I don’t know if I am saying the right
one. Conditions of Approval or whatever those are called, perhaps that’s
something that we can put in there too. That there is a need for not idling
and another education point where the developer has to make sure this is
passed along the flyer or they have the agreement in the approval
conditions in order to be able to operate under. I really don’t know if it’s a
Resolution or an Ordinance we want but I see over from Minneapolis it’s actually pretty – they have an Ordinance but they make it clear that
enforcement is going to be difficult. I think we state that as well just to let
people understand what to expect.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Does it give any – does it say anything about how
successful it’s been?
Council Member Kou: Well, I think they are still going through their pilot
program. They’re still – it’s a case study for them.
Council Member DuBois: I have a question (inaudible).
Chair Wolbach: (Inaudible) a bunch. Lydia, do you have any…
Council Member Kou: I’m done.
Chair Wolbach: … other questions? Ok. Yeah, Tom, go ahead.
Council Member DuBois: Option 3 in enforcement, it says solely through
administrative mechanisms in chapters blah blah blah. What are those? On
Page 90, Option 3.
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Chair Wolbach: You mean Option 2?
Council Member DuBois: Option 3.
Chair Wolbach: Oh, sorry.
Mr. Oliver: It would be the administrative mechanisms in those two portions
of the code. I think 1.12 is an (inaudible) of penalties and citations and 1.16
is administrative compliance orders.
Council Member DuBois: Again, would this… Would a policeman be able to
give a warning or it some other person?
Mr. Oliver: There would be the ability to give a warning and also, I don’t have a tremendous amount of (inaudible) code enforcement under those
sections.
Terence Howzell, Principal Attorney: So, this would – Option 3 involves
enforcement by code enforcement and…
Council Member DuBois: So, not the police?
Mr. Howzell: Not police.
Council Member DuBois: Yeah so, I guess I would be interested in probably
Option Four with police. Again, not expecting them to do it except in
extreme conditions but they are the ones that are out dealing with traffic. I
don’t think I would have the Planning Department or code enforcement
person in our Ordinance responsible for idling traffic.
Mr. Keene: I would agree with that if you’re going to ensure the enforcement option.
Mr. Howzell: I’ll just – but just to clarify, as I read the Ordinance, Option
Four provides an option, it’s an ‘or’. It could be through code or police and
I’m -- it seems like we’re going to modify Option Four just to provide for
police only.
Council Member DuBois: But at their discretion, I mean (inaudible).
Mr. Howzell: Right, they – yes, they do have discretion.
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Mr. de Geus: Instead of a moving violation, it’s a non-moving violation.
Mr. Keene: Yeah, well we’re probably not in that many situations where
we’ve got cops deployed regularly enough where we got the smoking
problem in the first place. I’d venture to say that I do more enforcement on
the smoking Ordinance than our Police Department does.
Council Member DuBois: We do have cops monitoring traffic at schools and
catching speeders there. It would be a good time for warnings I guess for if
again, it looks excessive.
Mr. Keene: Could I make a suggestion?
Chair Wolbach: Yes, I was going to jump in with some of my thoughts but I
let the City Manager – Ok well, I have kind of mixed feelings about this one.
Now Liz is the President of our Air Board for the Bay Area and I know she’s
very sensitive to the air quality issues and also a big advocate. I think all of
us have come on board now as advocates of our healthy City which we just
got a nice award for as a City last night so I definitely see the impetus for
this. As far as air quality, I can’t remember if today was another spare the
air day, we just had…
Vice Mayor Kniss: Tomorrow is another one.
Chair Wolbach: … four and yes, we’re now five days in a row on spare the air
days. So, the air quality issues, in general, are contributions to Bay Area air
quality that Palo Altons put up with; health issues. I think – explain why – I’m willing to kind of consider this and was willing to support this movement
along to this point. I am pretty reluctant to say at this point that we should
be enforcing it so I would actually – I think I would probably be inclined to
support Option Number One at this time. You know I think I’m curious to see
if we put it in our code and say – Option One basically says there’s no
enforcement. That means we would use it for education, we would – you
know the police or code enforcement or anybody could go up to anyone else
and say hey, you know you’ve been idling your car for 10 minutes there and
Palo Alto has an Ordinance against that and see how many people flip the
bird or ignore them. That could inform whether we want to revisit this in the
future but I think that’s probably where we should start. I think I’ll actually
make that Motion, that we adopt the Staff recommendation with Option 1 on
the enforcement.
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MOTION: Chair Wolbach moved, seconded by Council Member XX to
recommend the City Council adopt the Staff Recommendation with Option 1
on the enforcement.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Actually, Tom has pursued me so I think that just the
more I think about it, the more I think maybe we need what Lydia has
described as the Minneapolis method of you have an Ordinance, you don’t
enforce it, you find other ways to let your drivers know that they are in
violation, and certainly passing out information could make a big difference.
I’d like to just see people come into the school situation and turn their car off for a change which is what they don’t normally do.
Chair Wolbach: I take it you’re not seconding my Motion?
Vice Mayor Kniss: No, that’s why I’m saying that Tom has – Tom has
persuaded – actually, your argument persuaded me, even more, Cory to not
do Number 1.
Chair Wolbach: So, we don’t have another second unless anyone else wants
to second it.
MOTION FAILED DUE TO THE LACK OF A SECOND
Council Member DuBois: I’d like to make another Motion.
Chair Wolbach: Alright.
Council Member DuBois: Again, just to be clear, there’s a difference between
what I think our Ordinance should say and whether we actually enforce it. So, I do think we should have an enforcement provision but I’m not saying
that we enforce it all the time. I would move – I actually – you know looking
through the Ordinance, I think the 6 – 10.62.20, the exception list I think is
fine as is, even though it’s very comprehensive. I would move that we pass
an Ordinance and with a modified Option 4 which is that maybe the
responsibility of the Police Department. In terms of the fine amounts, I’d
actually prefer the fine the amounts in Option Three. I don’t know if we can
just specify those so it would be $100, $150, $200 but again enforcement is
entirely at the discretion of the police force.
Vice Mayor Kniss: I’ll second that but I want you to repeat it – thanks,
repeat it if you would.
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MOTION: Council Member DuBois moved, seconded by Vice Mayor Kniss to
recommend a modified Option 4, using the fine amounts indicated in Option
3.
Council Member DuBois: Yeah so, I’m saying we would enforce – basically it
would be Option Number 4 but I’m scratching the first part that says that
the Director of Planning, it would just be by the members of the Police
Department. The last sentence there with the fine amounts, I’m suggesting
the lower amounts that are in Option 3 so it would $100, $150, $200 for a
third violation.
Chair Wolbach: Did the Clerk catch that?
Ms. Brettle: I did.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you.
Vice Mayor Kniss: So, you’ve really done sort of a put together of 3 and 4,
correct?
Council Member DuBois: Yeah, kind of.
Chair Wolbach: Alright Tom, do you want to speak to your Motion?
Council Member DuBois: No, just again I agree with you that we’re not
necessarily enforcing these but I think it’s good to have the Ordinance to
point to it and not have to come back at some future date and add this kind
of thing.
Chair Wolbach: Liz, do you want to speak to your second?
Vice Mayor Kniss: Yeah because you know luckily, we all reserve the right to
be persuaded on occasion and I – as we talked about it earlier and talked
about the education part of it. We kept trying to find a way to say this really
can be enforced without saying it can be enforced. So, I think that’s where
we are but also Cory, when you mentioned that I head up the Air Board that
would -- I thought it would be embarrassing to go to my next meeting and
mention that we turned down the Idling Ordinance that has been widely
touted as something that might help with air pollution. Especially, we worry
a lot about kids and a lot about the fumes and the pollution from the cars or
diesel or whatever happens to be around. So, for that reason, I think we
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would look at this as a pilot as well, just as Minneapolis did. Come back
again and look at it in a year and see if it’s working.
Chair Wolbach: Was that an addition to the Motion to refer to it as a pilot.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Yes, would you accept that Tom?
Council Member DuBois: Yeah sure.
INCORPORATED INTO THE MOTION WITH THE CONSENT OF THE
MAKER AND SECONDER to direct Staff to return to Council after a pilot
period of one year for a status update.
Chair Wolbach: City Manager, you had some comments you wanted to add?
Mr. Keene: Yes, I do so a couple of comments. I – when -- the discussions
we had before this meeting is as long as it is legal to have an Ordinance that
essentially, we’re saying we’re going to either not enforce or have a sort of
very low threshold or I mean a very high threshold for enforcement. I would
say I don’t really have a problem with that. It does put us in a predicament
sometimes though when a citizen in our community sees a problem and
we’re not enforcing it. Then being a Palo Altan, they go to the code and they
look up the exact section and they tell us here’s the section and why aren’t
you enforcing it. We would sort of say well, we basically have a very low
enforcement policy so you know I don’t expect that would happen a lot but
you guys will probably definitely get a call sometime about how
unresponsive the City Staff is, including the City Manager so that’s one point. The second thing is I doubt that without a real educational campaign,
we’re going to do a much behavior change. I mean I would separate the
problem, let’s call it the problem, the issue into two categories. One we have
a whole bunch of things around schools and other activities where there are
lots of cars and dropping kids off or whatever it is and idling. That’s one
issue and that’s one where I think signs and/or an education program could
be more effective. Then we have the folks out on the street maybe doing
deliveries or whatever it is that the truth is probably ultimately, we’d be
more comfortable citing or something than a mom dropping her kid off at
school. I’m just saying practically and then lastly, I think we should get a
little more creative about what we’re trying to do here. I mean we – it’s
another (inaudible) passing Ordinance, you guys have heard me say that
before Manger’s reorganize because it’s about the only thing they can do,
right? City pass Ordinances because we sort of don’t necessarily know how
to effectuate something without doing that but I would suggest two things. I
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agree I think the school district needs to get involved on the school issue.
Partly because there are a whole bunch of kids who sort of have a lead on
this thing and we all know from actually the anti-smoking program in
general, getting kids to really start bringing stuff home and putting it on the
refrigerator about smoking is bad for your mom or dad actually does have
some impact. Then secondly maybe what we have are kid tickets that we
give out to people. That actually we just have the folks who go up and say
hey, you know – maybe we have kids even write it, hey, please, you know
what? We’re really concerned about air quality and all this stuff and the City wants us to be sure to do this. So, you don’t even get a real ticket, you just
get an embarrassment ticket; you know what I mean like oh my god. I tell
you what, I’d be much more disrupted thinking that kids who really wanted
to deal with the health and this sort of thing where sort of calling me out in
some way than the Police Department stopping me. I’d get more defensive
at first, I’d go really? Come on, don’t you guys have some real issues to be
dealing with? I mean that’s going to be much more the normal reaction so I
just say that from somebody who tries to enforce myself – not enforce,
educate people to get your bike off the sidewalk in Downtown. Don’t ride
your bike on the sidewalk, don’t ride it through the tunnels, all of those sorts
of things. I’m not sure I’ve been able to be very effective at all myself. So, I
would just suggest we think about that and we get with the City school folks and say let’s turn this back and really amplify the children are saying about
this being a problem.
Vice Mayor Kniss: So, I can bring this to the (inaudible) – Ok, I can bring
this to the City School Committee on Thursday.
Mr. Keene: What I would say as far as the Motion that Tom put forward, I
mean I think we’re ok with that. I definitely think that it’s appropriate – it’s
correct to one, focus it more to the PD, pull the code enforcement and the
planning piece out. I think that’s confusing and less effective.
Chair Wolbach: Tom, go ahead and then I’ll share my thoughts.
Council Member DuBois: To your first point about somebody looking at the
Ordinance in this Option 4, this is a question for Terence; I mean does it
make sense to actually call out that enforcement is at the discretion of the
officer? So, if somebody read the Ordinance they would understand that’s
it’s not always enforced or does that make it more confusing?
Mr. Howzell: I would admit that it probably makes it more confusing and as I
wrestle with us – Two points, one is I think we need another approach may
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be to suggest and I’m trying to think through the language about it. Not
necessarily being the highest enforcement priority and that might be one
way to approach it than expressly stating that police officers can frankly pick
and choose who they want to enforce this against, I think that’s tricky. The
other thing that you might consider is mandating that the first offense so to
speak receives a warning so that way going forward at least you know that
there has been some education that’s been provided and receiving a
warning, to begin with. So, that way it isn’t – in the first contact isn’t
necessarily escalated to some type of monetary sanction.
Council Member DuBois: I would be ok with that to change the first one too…
Vice Mayor Kniss: Yeah, one question though, doesn’t an officer always have
the opportunity to give a warning?
Mr. Howzell: They do but given just what’s kind of been discussed here, it
just may satisfy your interest in providing some kind of education piece in
the initial interaction.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Well, I would agree, that certainly should be the first – the
first time should be a warning (crosstalk).
Council Member DuBois: (Inaudible) why did you enforce it for me or why
didn’t you enforce it for me? I think just stating the first time is a warning…
Mr. Howzell: Right, there at least in the initial interaction there is some
uniformity.
Chair Wolbach: Are you going to make that as an Amendment?
Council Member DuBois: I would like to do that if…
Vice Mayor Kniss: Yeah, that’s fine. I think the more we are discussing it, I
think the better presentation we’re giving back to the Council about what
we’re really looking for.
Chair Wolbach: Let’s clarify, was that Amendment then that the first
violation would be a maximum of zero, the second violation would be a
maximum of $100, and the second – the third would be a maximum of
$150?
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Council Member DuBois: The first violation would be a written warning and
then the second would be $100 and third would be $150.
INCORPORATED INTO THE MOTION WITH THE CONSENT OF THE
MAKER AND SECONDER to use the following fine amounts: $0 (written
warning) for the first violation, $100 for the second violation and $150 for
the third violation.
Chair Wolbach: Alright, I have a couple more questions and thoughts now
responding to this. Actually, a question that I meant to ask earlier and
forgot. On Packet Page 89, in the list of where it does not apply to those specific exemptions or exceptions, number nine is an engine is – when an
engine is operated in accordance with instructions from the vehicle
manufacturer for proper operation. Is that basically if someone is warning up
their engine before operating their vehicle?
Mr. Oliver: Only when – it would be a vehicle that the manufacturer
recommended doing so. I think it’s been discussed in leading up to the
Colleague’s Memo that most modern vehicles, that’s no longer the case.
Chair Wolbach: But some or especially some older one, that is the case
though.
Mr. Oliver: But some, especially the older vehicles that may be true. I think
carbureted vehicles, for the most part, that may be an issue.
MOTION AS AMENDED RESTATED: Council Member DuBois moved, seconded by Vice Mayor Kniss to recommend a modified Option 4, with the
following fine amounts: $0 (written warning) for the first violation, $100 for
the second violation and $150 for the third violation; and direct Staff to
return to the City Council after a pilot period of one year with a status
update.
Chair Wolbach: Right, so I think that’s important as an exemption so thank
you for clarifying that. So, I am not going to support this Motion. I did try to
make a Motion earlier that I would have supported. As the risk of getting a
little too philosophical, I’ve got to say that I think the practice of having too
many rules so that some of them aren’t enforced, some of the people don’t
even know about and just living in a society with so many rules that
somebody is always violating one of them. It opens an opportunity,
especially when you say you don’t enforce them all the time because of
resources or discretion, and what that really means is that you end up
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getting into a society where everybody is guilty of breaking some rules. Then
it’s really up to the government to decide well, we’re going to prosecute you
for this one or we’re not. I actually think that is a path to tyranny and
because of that long-held philosophical view, I don’t think that that’s an
appropriate way to govern. I think that there’s an important objective here
but I don’t think this is the right way to go about it. The idea that we’re
talking about a potential criminal citation for something that we may or may
not enforce, people probably don’t know about, is just something that I can’t
support in this case. I’m sorry about that but I can’t join you on this one. Maybe after the pilot period is over, we’ll revisit it and make it something we
can all support. Any other comments on the Motion? Alright, let’s vote on it,
all in favor? Oh, I’m sorry.
Mr. Howzell: Just another clarification on the Motion, how long is the pilot
period?
Vice Mayor Kniss: A year.
Mr. Howzell: Ok, very well.
Mr. de Geus: Can I just ask a clarifying question because it won’t be a
unanimous vote, does that mean it now have to take up time on the full
Council…
Chair Wolbach: Yes.
Mr. de Geus: …this topic?
Chair Wolbach: Yes.
Council Member Kou: Can I just (inaudible) something? You know with what
we went through yesterday on the Sustainability Implementation Plan (SIP),
the SIP, having to do with water and clear air and going to Electric Vehicles
(EV) and all that. I mean I think this is a stepping stone towards going to
EVs. I mean one of the things is to kind of ensure that we do have the clean
air and so there needs to be some meat behind it which is – I am torn. I’m
always torn because we have an Ordinance and we want to enforce the
Ordinance so what I – I’m going to support this because there’s that tiered
way of penalties. I think that’s a good approach to go into providing the
information, education and then going to the next step of saying hey, you
were in violation once. So, I think it supports the SIP that we kind of pushed
forward last night so I’m going to support this.
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Chair Wolbach: Actually, before we vote, I did actually just want to thank
the maker and seconder of the Motion. You know I’m not going to support it,
I do think it is better than it was originally proposed and I think that the
Amendments you made got me closer to supporting it. So, I guess I am, at
this point, opposing with less vehemence. Alright…It’s the last meeting of
the year; don’t you want to drag it out? Alright, all in favor of the Motion? All
opposed? Alright, that passes on a… Lydia, you were a yes, correct?
Council Member Kou: Yes.
Chair Wolbach: Ok, so that passes on a three to one vote with myself voting no. Alright, thank you.
MOTION AS AMENDED PASSED: 3-1 Wolbach no
At this time, the Committee heard Agenda Item 2.
2. Discussion and Recommendations for 2018 City Council Priority Setting
Process.
Chair Wolbach: Moving on now to Item 2, coming back to that one and that
is a discussion and recommendations for 2018 City Council priority setting
and thank you to City Attorney Staff for all the work on this one.
Jessica Brettle, City Clerk’s Office: I do have one speaker for that Item.
Chair Wolbach: We do so Rob Smith and if you would use the microphone
right over here, we’ll be able to capture your input. It’s the one … Oh, it’s
the one at the podium right in the corner right over by the Clerk. I’m sorry; Bob Smith, of course, and you will have three minutes.
Bob Smith: Do I press this button or is it on?
Chair Wolbach: No, you can go right ahead.
Mr. Smith: Great, my name is Bob Smith, I live on Greer Road in Palo Alto
and I’m here to talk about the priority issues. I’m mostly about a specific
issue but I think it’s one that deserves some discussion. When you define
priorities, I think you have to decide that somethings really aren’t priorities
anymore, that they have lost their importance and one that I think has lost
its importance is worrying about fiber; fiber to the home, premises, node.
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We’ve spent 20-years, five or six times with major efforts going over this
issue and what we failed to notice is that during that 20-years, the
incumbent services have improved constantly what they were doing. To the
point that nearly 10-years ago they actually exceeded what we hoped to
originally accomplish. Of course, the bar was raised and now we’ve been
looking for gigabyte service and the whole reason stated or the main reason
stated for having municipal participation is let’s have that gigabyte service.
Well, both of our incumbent providers, Comcast and AT&T, have now stated
that they will be offering gigabyte service. I believe, at least as far as I’ve been able to tell, Comcast is willing to come to my house and install it. The
modems, you can buy them at Fry’s if you want to buy your own instead of
rent it; Data Over Cable Service Interface Specification (DOCSIS) 3.1
modems. We are on the verge really of having this service that we’ve talked
about for so long and that we’ve constantly used as a reason why the City
must take taxpayers money, put it at risk in order to have the service. Now,
many other reasons you've cited but I think the many motivation has been
that speed. By the way, the reason why I didn’t order it from Comcast is
because I have 100-megabyte service which is fully adequate in my opinion
for most home use, including mine. So, you really don’t need to go to that
gigabyte level and that’s the case in most Cities that this has been
monitored. I’m suggesting to you that this discussion of fiber be removed as a City priority. We’ve got plenty of things to do, plenty of places to put $12-
$15 million which is the estimate for the current new project called Fiber to
the Node. You should take a look at that and see how useless it is without
somebody who is willing to come along and be the vendor who actually
makes it work. I don’t know who’s going to do that with Comcast and AT&T
doing the same thing. So, give this some thought and consideration and
thank you very much.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you for your comments. Alright and let’s bring it back
to Staff.
Rob de Geus, Deputy City Manager: Thank you, Chair Wolbach. I can do an
introduction here and then City Manager Jim Keene may want to add to is
but Council selects their annual priorities in January. Typically, at their
retreat and to prepare for setting those priorities we solicit feedback from
the public and feedback from the Council in advance. So, you had an At
Places Memo yesterday which was the latest information from the public and
I’m not sure you had a chance to look through that. We’re still going through
it as well but clearly, some themes are coming forward from the public. An
emphasis on traffic, no surprise there, emphasis on housing and an
emphasis on jet noise seems to be a strong theme. There’s grade separation
that comes up, bike regulations, concerns about basements being built has
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certainly come up a couple times, expanding the shuttle service, code
enforcement, and actually, fiber to the home someone brought up as well.
Only a couple people though so we’re still going through that but traffic,
housing and jet noise seem to be the largest themes there. Then with
respect to the Council feedback, we did get that as well and you saw that in
the Memo. This afternoon I put it in a little bit of a different format which I
think is helpful for you. Just take one here Cory and pass it on and here’s
the Council one there. So, what we tried to do here is summarize the
different topics that the Council Members sort of put forward and there was a lot of commonalities. We had the Council Members, as you see here along
the table, and you can see that the top five are very closely related to what
our existing priorities for 2017, with housing being number one and finance
being number one; they get the same score. Grade separation, rail corridor,
transportation, infrastructure getting the most support for priorities for 2018
which is pretty interesting. So, the Policy & Services Committee’s
(Committee) work tonight is really two things, is which of the set of priorities
should be considered for 2018 retreat, if you want to have a retreat, and the
process that Council will use for the annual retreat, which again is a
question. Particularly a question of if the Committee believes that sticking
close to the existing priorities is the right path forward. Then a full day
retreat on priorities may not be the best use of the Councils time. Maybe they want to retreat on another topic or a combination of topics in addition
to priorities. So, that’s where we are with the priority discussion. Jim, did
you want to add anything?
James Keene, City Manager: Yes, if I might just so I think some of the
Committee Members here are going through this Policy and Services role
maybe for the first time. Just to sort of restate how we got here to be doing
this in advance of the retreat and coming to Policy and Services. Up until
three or four years ago, we would go to the Council retreat and we could
spend hours discussing what the priorities would be and there would be
philosophical discussions about what constitutes a priority. We even had
debates about is that a priority or is that a value? Is that a Guiding Principle
and all of those sorts of things so the Council basically came up with this
concept of say well, look, let’s try to get earlier input from the Council? Let’s
as the Policy and Service Committee to try and look at that and sort of pre-
organize the priorities so that the Council could kind of hit the ground
running so that’s what Rob was going through there. Now, in addition,
though, the alignment between the Council around the priorities right now
just sort of doubles down so to speak on this review process and there are
not lots of variabilities. My own reading of what the direction it isn’t that the
Committee has to say these are the three priorities that we absolutely say or
whatever. As much as how is it that you want to advance to the Council how
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they would discuss the priorities themselves. You know so you could say
well, we really felt that there were these three priorities but there were two
others here that may be worth more discussion than some others. You also
have the – more the outlier issue from the feedback from the public. I mean
we clearly had lots of folks on the airplane noise issue really weighing in. I
mean probably two-thirds of the comments so far were in that arena and
just so that you are aware, we will continue to take feedback from the public
beyond now leading up to the end of the Council retreat itself. So, we’ll have
an up to date sort of feedback to you from where the – what the community is doing and saying. I mean I look at this as sort of – I’m a pattern person I
guess anyway but it doesn’t look like your task is all that difficult, at least as
how you want to sort of say how could we structure what it is that you have.
Personally, I don’t think you're – you really run the risk of really being in
violation of the overall Council direction. You know priorities are -- what is
identified as a priority is something that’s really requiring special significant
attention and generally isn’t designed to last for more than a 3-year period,
generally. Again, I think you could safety within the existing policy make
almost any recommendation that you would want to about what you see
here. You know you can – Committees before have sometime gotten
creative and mashed up somethings and put them together and sometimes
that’s worked for the Council.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Can I make just one correction?
Chair Wolbach: Liz, please, go ahead. Use your mic.
Vice Mayor Kniss: What I had said was all the same priorities as last year
with housing Number 1. Can I say another couple of things while we’re at it?
Chair Wolbach: You got the mic.
Vice Mayor Kniss: I’m a little concerned because I think that we have kept
some of these priorities no more -- more than three years and one of them
that I’m very certainly fond of is the Healthy City, Healthy Communities. We
now have a Committee that’s ongoing and I think we have got to a lot of
those goals. We got two awards last night for what we have done in the
County and I’m not sure if we’re going to just have three priorities, that we
want to keep that on there. I think at some point we’re going to say, we
actually made great strides here and we can take that off for the moment.
The same with housing, I think housing probably needs to be more clearly
defined and probably with all of these, it needs more definition. Otherwise,
you’re including everything you’re doing at any given time so I think that we
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still can select three priorities pretty easily. I would suggest with that one,
we might consider taking that off and even with budget and finance. I think
that’s an on-going issue and I’m not sure our budget is anymore in play
right now than it has been before. Maybe somebody wants to comment back
on that but certainly transportation, which means traffic in almost
everybody’s mind. The infrastructure that we keep hearing about because
we don’t seem to have enough money for it is really important and for me,
housing is – has been up for most for quite some time. So, that’s where I
am on this and I’m trying to pay attention to no more than three priorities in a three-year time limit. Although Jim, I don’t think we’ve adhered to that,
recently have we?
Mr. Keene: Well, I mean I think generally – I mean yes you have but I mean
honestly, just my own reading, I don’t think you’re in danger this year of
somehow egregiously violating the Council directive on three years. It should
generally attempt to be more than – not more than three years. I would
suggest that you would think about how to mash things up. I’m not saying
this is right, I’m just going to cut to the chase. You could say housing,
transportation with special attention to the rail corridor or grade separation,
and finance and budget with special attention to infrastructure and pension.
That differentiates it from finance and budget just in an ongoing way. It tries
to clarify our year issues with infrastructure, are they really what are a whole bunch of infrastructure projects we need to identify or is it more how
are we going to fund the ones that we’ve committed too? Then pension, only
one person mentioned it but it really is – it’s the other kind of core system
issue that we’ve got with our finance and budget issue.
Vice Mayor Kniss: That’s well said, that’s good and I’m sure – I think people
have to inherently have to know that transportation is traffic.
Chair Wolbach: Tom.
Council Member DuBois: Yeah, I was kind of in the up where you were. First
of all, I would like to say that I would like to see us try to get to three. I
think last year we had five priorities, that’s kind of fudging. I’d really like to
see us get the National Citizen Survey out, even if it's in a raw format,
before the retreat. I think the data is collected now and we get it after the
retreat or at the retreat, it would be much more useful to get it sooner. You
know it’s interesting how you grouped these, you know transportation has
six but mobility had three, circulation had three which is traffic, traffic
mitigation had two so I see traffic as getting fourteen total. If you combine it
with rail, that’s twenty so…
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Chair Wolbach: Only nine Council Members, amazing.
Council Member DuBois: Yeah so, it’s quite high and I was kind of struggling
whether we should actually combine grade separation with transportation. It
feels like they may be separate things that need special attention but maybe
we could lump them together. Certainly, I think finance and budget, we’re
talking about structural issues with the budget, not just doing a budget and
that’s where I think – I’m not sure infrastructure really needs to be a priority
on its own. I think the issue is the financing of infrastructure and rolling
pension in there seemed fine. I tried to start the conversation on housing the other night, I think to Liz’s point, housing is too big. I think we need to
start to talk about goals for different types of housing and different types of
situations and kind of breaking it into categories. Yeah so, I guess my three
would be housing, finance/budget, and transportation and I’m open to
lumping those in certain ways. There was – Council Member Tanaka brings
up net promoter scores anytime so I don’t know if you guys are familiar with
it.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Yeah, what is it called?
Council Member DuBois: Net Promoter Scores. I mean I don’t think it needs
to be a priority but that’s actually a really interesting technic for measuring
issues and satisfaction and progress so anyways, those are my thoughts.
Chair Wolbach: Lydia, do you want to jump in at this time?
Council Member Kou: I think I basically have agreed with a lot what Tom
said and how the City Manager kind of lumped it together. There are many
things that are like bullet points under a main title so I think when I put
down noise, air quality and preservation of natural resources. There are a
couple of groups in our community that are very concerned with noise, being
jet noise, and of course, now there’s – there are other noises – what’s that
called? Leaf blower and so forth and we just went through the air quality has
to do with idling. I don’t know if there’s a way to include that in one of those
as a bullet point but mainly I do agree with what Tom said and what the City
Manager had said.
Chair Wolbach: Now, the Healthy City, Health Community, Liz meant to have
hers included – have that included in hers but she said she’d be willing to
pull it off. I was the only one other person who included it and I’d also be
willing to pull it off so I think we should actually scratch that one out. Not to
say…
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Vice Mayor Kniss: I think for the same reasons though.
Chair Wolbach: Yeah, well the only two people who proposed it are sitting
here and we both said we can say it’s already underway.
Vice Mayor Kniss: (Inaudible) I think we’ve gotten there. I think that’s
(inaudible) (crosstalk).
Mr. de Geus: It’s been three years.
Chair Wolbach: Yeah, it’s been three years and we’ve made real progress
and its ongoing right? It doesn’t – it’s not that it’s dead, it’s that it’s grown
up and it’s out of the nest, right? It’s off and running. I don’t know how many more metaphors I can make. I’d actually say we should scratch that
one off. Again, just the two people who supported it are saying…
Vice Mayor Kniss: We’re only four, there are five more so…
Chair Wolbach: But we were the only two who had proposed it. It wouldn’t
be on the list if it weren’t for you and me. On some of the others, I actually
– I kind of want to step back a little bit and focus on the process before I
come back to the specifics. There are a few questions I think we should
really think about and I think we should – I don’t think we should necessarily
answer them tonight but I’m hoping to answer them tonight. We should
definitely encourage Council to answer them or affirm whatever suggestion
we have. Those questions are how many priorities should we have? The
second question is, how many years should priorities continue? Third is how much specificity versus breadth should a priority have and fourthly, should
we order the priorities or should we say they are all equal? I mean because
Liz had raised the question of having housing being the number one, above
the others. I’ll say that my own feeling is that for the number of priorities, I
think we should really try to stick to three and I think Tom, you said that as
well. I think that’s a good guideline. For the number of years, I think we
should stick to three and for specificity versus breadth so here's where it
kind of interplays with the number of priorities. If we make a priority very
broad, then we can oh, we only have three priorities but it’s really fifteen
priorities because we made one all-encompassing. I remember when we did
the built environment a couple years ago and it – there was – it wasn’t a
very precise priority and I think we’ve gotten more precise over the last
couple of years. I don’t want to encourage that trend so I would really
advocate for being pretty specific and on the housing one, in particular, I’ll
come back to my thoughts on how we can do that. I think Tom’s right to
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point that out, that we should move forward and iterate on our – not just
saying housing or not just saying transportation or not just saying finance.
Then as far as whether we should prioritize among the priorities, Liz might
convince me but my sense is they should all be equal. They are all – they
are our three top priorities and that’s good enough. What do you guys think
of, just for now, I mean I’m just kind of curious. Feel free to nod or jump in
but do you think those are the key questions we should focus on in kind of –
as framing questions before we come back to specifics?
Vice Mayor Kniss: Just a clarity thing, this indicates that we are setting a process in place. Is that what – are we actually putting a process in place or
are we actually making a recommendation?
Mr. Keene: The idea is to look at – in some way to make some
recommendations of your look of how to group these and the process piece -
- this is on Page 43, point Number 3 under process. That one, when the
Council adopted that, that was really designed to say at the retreat, what is
the process that you recommend the Council as a whole will use to decide
the priorities. That’s really what (inaudible) (crosstalk).
Chair Wolbach: So, we… Yeah, the process. Well, I guess I would suggest
that the process is we should try and add a little more clarity, maybe make a
recommendation tonight and that the process we’d recommend would be
considered our recommendation. Our recommendation might be doing this or that or pick from these top six – pick three of these six or figure out a
way to group these, something like that. As far as how to move forward with
some of the specifics, if we were to offer a recommendation I think maybe
we could go with three being housing, transportation, finance and adding
specifics under them. Not to try to broaden them but actually to make them
more specific. Under housing I’d focus on supply and affordability, on
transportation I’m open to ideas about what goes under there but there’s a
lot of stuff mentioned here. I would actually say we could add things like
mobility, circulation which essentially means traffic right? Mobility,
circulation, safety but we could put whatever bullet points we want under
transportation. Then under finance, I think the City Manager had it right if I
heard correctly, with a focus on pensions and also on grade separation.
Mr. Keene: Infrastructure.
Chair Wolbach: Infrastructure in general. Then the question of grade
separations, is grade separation a transportation issue, is it an infrastructure
issue or is it a finance issue? Well, it’s all of them so if we were going to do a
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fourth, I would just pull grade separation out and say that for this year, that
is a major priority for the year coming up. I’d be open to fudging into a
fourth just to say grade separation is its own. I’m not making a Motion yet
but I’m curious what my Colleagues think.
Mr. de Geus: It sure sounds like a Motion. That sounds like a good Motion.
Chair Wolbach: Tom.
Council Member DuBois: I guess my thought about the process, you know I
think we came with something similar to this table but again, I would lump
some of these other transportation ones into the transportation total. I think it would help the rest of the Council maybe quickly come to an agreement on
the top three if we recommend the top 3. In terms of process, I think we –
this Policy and Service has made recommendations in the past about how we
were going to talk about the priorities at the retreat. Kind of similar to was
you were going Cory but I would say that maybe we should suggest the
retreat would be a discussion of the subpoints for each of these topics.
Rather than defining them here and I’d really like to see if we could talk
about strategy for each priority, rather than specific policy and programs at
the retreat. Just really how are we going to talk about transportation and
what I mean by that is similar to what we did with the Sustainability
Implementation Plan (SIP) last night. What would be key performance
indicators that we’re going to try to effect and what would subcategories under transportation be that would be relevant and we can do the same
thing for housing. We might end up with those bullet points that you threw
out but I think that would be a useful discussion to have with the Council
because I think these words mean different things to different people. So,
we could all agree on these priorities but have very different thoughts about
what that means and so if we could have a discussion about, like I said, the
strategy and really what are the key measures we’re trying to affect.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Could we flip that for a minute because one of the things
that I wanted to know is looking at Staff and looking at Jim, Rob, Terence
and so forth. When we give you our priorities, how do you then look at
issues in a different manner than you might otherwise? So, what do our
priorities mean to you and are you waiting for us to tell you ok? One of the
things we’d like to tackle next is we want to approve five affordable housing
projects or something like that? So, how does this fit together back and
forth? How is that – how does our priority setting effect you as Staff and City
Manager?
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Mr. Keene: Well, it’s probably like enforcing the Anti-Idling Ordinance. I
mean…
Vice Mayor Kniss: I’m afraid that might be…
Mr. Keene: It’s good to have priorities (crosstalk) but exactly what we do
with – no, exactly how we use them is to be (crosstalk) determined. I mean
so first of all, we think it’s important for the Council, in your leadership role,
to say the public, to yourselves and then as bi-product to the Staff, these
are the things that we really think are of really special significance this year.
We really want to pay attention to it and we have made some progress in developing work plans around that. We definitely give them priority when
we’re thinking about issues that may come into conflict. We would generally
say well, wait a minute, transportation is a priority to the Council. If we’re
going to look at some of these things and we’re looking at deploying
resources we have, we’re definitely going to be influenced by that so it
definitely has value for us. I do think the points about getting some more
specificity as far as subsets or Key Performance Indicators (KPI) as Tom was
saying or -- I’ll throw out another suggestion that Michelle brought up, which
I thought was really good, this morning when we were talking or yesterday
when we talking (inaudible) Staff. She said I’ve found that ways in the past
working with groups on priorities that adding a verb in front of the noun
activates the intention of the priority in an interesting way. So, if you’re going to say housing or whatever it is. If you are going to say build housing,
I mean that means different than explore housing versus plan housing. I’m
not saying that I would know exactly what would a verb is or it could be a
phrase even but that may be in the process when you talk about a way to
also help get the intention. Then we could talk a little bit more about KPIs
and things because I think that would be good. I think you guys may even
come up with some ideas in the beginning but I would argue that’s clearly
part of the process you want the whole Council to indulge in at the retreat.
Council Member DuBois: I think – the reason I said KPIs is I really – maybe
I’m being optimistic but rather than start to get into details about specific
programs and people are arguing over those. I feel like we could benefit
from a framework around priorities that we could refer to during the year.
Chair Wolbach: I actually really agree with the direction that I think I’ve
heard you going here. I don’t know if you wanted to try a Motion or if you
want to – I’m happy to try my hand a one.
Council Member DuBois: Do you need one?
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Vice Mayor Kniss: Yeah, I’m wondering, do we actually need a Motion
because…
Mr. Keene: Well, I guess we want to feel accountable…
Vice Mayor Kniss: Do you want us to say …?
Mr. Keene: …to you all between now and when we get to the retreat that we
have and we’ve sort of prepared for the retreat in the appropriate way.
Chair Wolbach: I think I’ll try a Motion and I’ll have a couple pieces and if
you guys can help follow along, including Staff and make sure I haven’t
missed any of the big things that we seem to have consensus on. The first is to ask Staff for bring to the retreat maybe an updated version of this chart.
Taking into consideration removal of Healthy City, Healthy Community
because the two people who suggested it are now saying take it off. Possible
consolidation of items so that’s the first thing. So, this chart or of the
information displayed in this chart to bring back to Council so that’s the first
part. Everybody ok with that one? Maybe we should just take them one at a
time.
Vice Mayor Kniss: You’re talking about continuing to use this?
Chair Wolbach: Yeah, to use this chart but give Staff a chance to maybe
improve the chart by consolidating a couple that could be combined and
remove the Healthy Cities, Healthy Community one. So, I’ll just move that
as a first – kind of a first Motion and there are a couple other things I’ll add.
Mr. Keene: That would go to the Council as a source document. I mean you
may…
Chair Wolbach: It’s just as a reference for us to consider as a starting point.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Yeah, I – but this is the sixth time I’ve done this and I’m
thinking, you know did it really have a great deal of impact when we have
done it before and struggled and fought about it for hours and had long
discussions? I think it’s important to have an overall look of what -- just
what we talked about. I think Tom, you put it pretty well when you just did
the three things. I just don’t want us to get down in the muck and spend --
we could spend three or four hours on this easily. I think – does that actually
change the outcome in the end?
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Chair Wolbach: Well, it should…
Mr. Keene: I think that there are going to be some subsequent Motions
(inaudible) (crosstalk).
Chair Wolbach: Should I lay the whole thing out or should we just do one at
a time?
Vice Mayor Kniss: Sure, lay it all out.
Chair Wolbach: The first part is to – as I just described regarding this
information that’s on this chart that was At Places tonight. The second is to
encourage the Council to pick only 3 priorities, to not extend any past a third year, to have them all have equal importance, and to be specific about goals
but not about policies. Lastly, as a starting point for selection, to consider
housing, transportation, finance and grade separation and I do know that
that’s four but to consider those as the top priorities from which we might
start narrowing down or consolidating.
MOTION: Chair Wolbach moved, seconded by Council Member DuBois to
recommend the City Council:
A. Direct Staff to bring to the Retreat an updated version of the Priority
Tally Sheet, with the removal of the Healthy Cities, Healthy
Community Priority and including possible consolidation of items on
the list; and
B. Encourage Council to pick only three priorities, that the priorities do not extend past a third year, give each priority equal importance and
be specific about goals and not about policies; and
C. Consider Housing, Transportation, Finance and Grade Separation as a
starting point for the priorities.
Council Member DuBois: I’m concerned about – I know this three-year rule
but I think housing is probably two or three years. Transportation is
definitely three, budget/finance might be at three.
Chair Wolbach: Actually, I think budget/finance is only in it’s second…
Council Member DuBois: I don’t know.
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Chair Wolbach: Actually, I would ask (crosstalk) – so, here’s something else
that I would ask – that I would ask Staff to bring forward is we had it at one
point, the priorities for the last three years.
Council Member DuBois: I would just say, I would drop that. I think again,
what we’re seeing is a fair amount of agreement on the priorities so I would
not drop transportation because it’s on it…
Chair Wolbach: Transportation has not been three years, it’s only been two
years. Housing has only been two years …
Council Member DuBois: I mean 2016 kind of had a catch-all, right? Housing, mobility … (crosstalk).
Vice Mayor Kniss: (Inaudible) we didn’t have this before.
Council Member DuBois: Transportation is 2015.
Chair Wolbach: I don’t think that our – I don’t think any of them would be
ruled out if we stuck to the three-year rule. Again, I’m just recommending
as an encouragement so I don’t know, is there a second? We can make
tweaks to it.
Council Member DuBois: I would just drop that language about three years,
that’s all.
Mr. Keene: Yeah, I mean I think people are going to look at this and say
transportation has been every year.
Council Member DuBois: Infrastructure has been every year.
Chair Wolbach: It’s in there somewhere I guess. Ok, so would you second it
with that change?
Council Member DuBois: Yeah.
Chair Wolbach: Good, I’m looking for a second so we can move forward.
Council Member DuBois: I’d also, again like to add that we get the National
Citizen Survey data before the retreat.
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Chair Wolbach: Yeah so, I’ll also as Staff to try and get the Citizen – National
Citizen Survey data available before the retreat. City Clerk, how are you
doing following along with all of this? Do you want to read it back to us?
Yeah, that’s probably a good idea.
INCORPORATED INTO THE MOTION WITH THE CONSENT OF THE
MAKER AND SECONDER to add to the Motion, “Make the National Citizen
Survey available prior to Retreat.”
Ms. Brettle: The current Motion on the floor is to direct Staff to bring to the
retreat an updated version of the tally sheet with the removal of the Healthy Cities, Healthy Community priority and possible consolidation of items on
that list. Encourage Council to pick only three priorities, to give each priority
equal importance and be specific about goals but not about policies. To
consider housing, transportation, finance and grade separation as a starting
point for those priorities and add that the National Citizen Survey be made
available prior to the retreat.
Chair Wolbach: Actually, I just – I’d say add ask Staff to endeavor to get the
National Citizen Survey available.
INCORPORATED INTO THE MOTION WITH THE CONSENT OF THE MAKER AND SECONDER to add to the Motion, “Direct Staff to bring last
year’s priorities to the Retreat.”
Mr. Keene: Yeah, (inaudible).
Chair Wolbach: Is that – you’re ok with that?
Mr. Keene: We will do it. I mean Harriet is still the lead on that and she’s out
right now.
Chair Wolbach: Tom, would you also be ok with adding to ask Staff to bring
to the retreat that list of our priorities from the lasted several years so we
can have that as a reference.
Council Member DuBois: Sure.
Chair Wolbach: Yeah so then – Liz, go ahead.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Can I dive in at this point?
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Chair Wolbach: Yeah, please.
Vice Mayor Kniss: I also want to say one other thing that’s off the record
totally but this table drives me…
Chair Wolbach: You’re actually on…
Vice Mayor Kniss: … crazy. I think we need to find a better way than all
sitting in a row where I’m doing this all the time.
Mr. Keene: Oh, this table?
Vice Mayor Kniss: This table.
Mr. Keene: I thought you meant this one, ok.
Chair Wolbach: If we turned it so it was round or sat at a corner we could
see each other.
Vice Mayor Kniss: It’s like I’ve got to come way out here to even see you,
Cory. I wanted to say I think you’re heading in a fine direction but I wanted
to also take a look at the past, which is always the prolog for the future, of
course. It’s very interesting that infrastructure used to be called strategy
and funding, then it was called the same thing, then went on in 2015, it’s
still here and it’s still here. Does that mean that infrastructure is just always
a part of everything that we do and that doesn’t necessarily have to be a
priority? So, if you look back, I think now I’ve heard more about traffic – I
guess plane noise but I think I hear far more about traffic than I do – than
certainly, we did in 2013 or 14.
Council Member DuBois: I think we took infrastructure off the list. Really, it’s
not budget and financing. (Inaudible).
Vice Mayor Kniss: Right so I think that in this case, wouldn’t we look and see
that’s something has been on that long, I think it’s just part of our
Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA). We just sort of do it so I think the big things -
- and say them back once more, the three big things we said.
Chair Wolbach: We actually called out four. We didn’t pick three yet but
we’ve…
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Vice Mayor Kniss: You did transportation, you did housing…
Chair Wolbach: Finance.
Vice Mayor Kniss: You did finance and rail.
Chair Wolbach: Grade separation.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Right. That’s fine. I’m surprised transportation though
hasn’t been on since 2013 and I’m not sure that was really about traffic back
in 2013. That’s a funny combination, transportation, parking, and livability.
Do you remember what that was about then?
Mr. Keene: I mean I think it was trying to hit all – I mean I think it was trying to hit the impact that transportation, mostly traffic and parking had
on livability.
Vice Mayor Kniss: I think that was when parking was such a huge problem.
Mr. Keene: When parking was big.
Vice Mayor Kniss: That’s why it’s lumped into transportation but the parking
issue we’ve – I don’t think we’ve solved it totally but we certainly are in the
middle of dealing with it. I’m fine with that, I think we’re going to get
feedback from the whole Council when we do meet. I won’t be surprised if
there are some other takes on this.
Chair Wolbach: I forgot to ask, Tom do you want to speak to your second?
Lydia, any thoughts? Just to look to Staff, does that Motion seem like
something that will give you good guidance to help the Council –have you help the Council get prepared for that retreat or are there any other
questions you think we need to answer tonight?
Mr. Keene: Well, if I could make this suggestion, I think when we present
this – when you do, that we’ll be clear about what – how you got to this
point. That you would say for example that here are the four categories and
so housing, transportation for example including circulation and mobility,
finance with the focus on infrastructure and pension as an example. You’re
not wording it that way, did you have a more detailed discussion on the
subsets and grade separations. Then you would say, again go back to this
idea of getting more specific about the goals to what extent you’re able to
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identify KPIs here or want us to do that. So that there’s more sense of what
are you anticipating or like to see how we’re going to measure progress
during the course of the year in these. That would make this different than
other things and even this idea of are their verbs to play around with as far
as a discussion.
Council Member DuBois: I would suggest that I think that would be a useful
discussion for the Council…
Mr. Keene: That’s right.
Council Member DuBois: …rather than to come with pre-set lists.
Mr. Keene: Oh, no, no, I wasn’t saying that. I was saying you would say
here’s what we’re saying but this would-be part of the process that you
would invite the Council to say how do we look at this issue of subsets, KPIs
and what’s in there?
Chair Wolbach: I think that’s good right? I think that having a potential
conversation about sub-bullets or on having a verb and action verb to be
associated or to say, as you suggested, by the end of the year or by mid-
point through the year and then at the end of the year, what does success
look like or what does successful progress look like? I think those are all
great things and I don’t think we need to add them to the Motion. It sounds
like we’re all on the same Page.
Vice Mayor Kniss: We use to be much wordier than we are now.
Mr. Keene: I think it will get wordier…
Chair Wolbach: We’re trying to get sharper.
Mr. Keene: …with this other piece when the Council does it.
Chair Wolbach: Maybe. Lydia?
Mr. Keene: Not the goal, not the head…
Chair Wolbach: Lydia?
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Council Member Kou: It has nothing to do with the Motion, it’s just a
question with regards to the infrastructure. Is there any way to kind of
determine or to provide to Council at that moment what are some of the
highest priority, what are in the works and then what are some that are
coming up that needs to be viewed? Just so that we have an idea of what is
really something that we have to focus on infrastructure and how does that
impact our budget?
Mr. Keene: Well, that – we can do that. As a matter of fact, we haven’t set
the date for when the retreat is going to be but we will be coming to Council on January 22nd with an update on infrastructure. So, the Council will have
already had a session where we’re identifying the plans, the projects, the
potential pending projects and the funding gaps that we have on those
projects.
Chair Wolbach: Do you think –I’m sorry, go ahead.
Mr. Keene: Yeah, no, I think that will be a good prelude and then we’ll be
able to carry over that information to the retreat also.
Chair Wolbach: So, it is your expectation that the retreat would be
scheduled for some time after that discussion?
Mr. Keene: After that, I mean typically it is. So, let me – can I just restate
sort of what Tom’s point about, clearly that you would not – we would not
get into the subsets and these other details. I think the appealing thing about that is I mean obviously, the Council as a whole is going to want to
chew on this and own it. The Council as a whole is pretty much aligned on
the high level what the priorities are so this has a potential to shift the
Council as a whole into the more meaningful work about – let’s just suppose
the Council said we agree with those four headings of priorities. Then the
discussion is around ok, what does that look like and mean? What are KPIs?
We might want to do what are – get more specific about the goal and we’re
not spending hours and hours trying to identify just the priorities. We could
really get some –in that case, going back to Liz’s question, how helpful are
the priorities? If we get more depth at the retreat from what the Council’s
vision or view is of what you want to see accomplished in some way, it
doesn’t have to be complete, then it starts to have real value for us because
then we can start.
Chair Wolbach: Alright, any more discussion about this Item? Alright, all in
favor? Alright, passed unanimously, thank you very much. Take a liberty as
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a Chair and just say thanks to everybody for a good year. A couple of
scheduling hiccups in the fall but aside from that I think we had a pretty
effective year on the Committee and I appreciate everybody’s contributions.
Vice Mayor Kniss: Is this happy holiday?
MOTION AS AMENDED RESTATED: Chair Wolbach moved, seconded by
Council Member DuBois to recommend the City Council:
A. Direct Staff to bring to the Retreat an updated version of the Priority
Tally Sheet, with the removal of the Healthy Cities, Healthy
Community Priority and including possible consolidation of items on the list;
B. Encourage Council to pick only three priorities, that the priorities do
not extend past a third year, give each priority equal importance and
be specific about goals and not about policies;
C. Consider Housing, Transportation, Finance and Grade Separation as a
starting point for the priorities;
D. Make the National Citizen Survey available prior to the Retreat; and
E. Direct Staff to bring last year’s priorities to the Retreat.
MOTION AS AMENDED PASSED: 4-0
Chair Wolbach: Happy holidays and I’ll see you in the new year. Meeting
adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT: Meeting adjourned at 7:51 P.M.