HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-05-23 Policy & Services Committee Summary Minutes
POLICY AND SERVICES COMMITTEE
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Special Meeting
Tuesday, May 23, 2017
Chairperson Wolbach called the meeting to order at 6:14 P.M. in the
Community Meeting Room, 250 Hamilton Avenue, Palo Alto, California.
Present: DuBois, Kou, Wolbach (Chair)
Absent: Kniss
Agenda Items
1. Discuss the Topic of Aircraft Noise, Review Federal Legislative Updates
and Recommend That City Council Reaffirm City's Positions to Reduce
Aircraft Noise and Make Other Recommendations as Needed to
Advance City’s Goals to Reduce Aircraft Noise Over the Skies of Palo
Alto
Chair Wolbach: Thank you. So, our first item tonight is going to be a
discussion of – topic of aircraft noise but we before that, do we have any
speakers for oral communications on items which are not on the agenda? Ok
and also, I heard from the City Manager and just an opportunity for Staff,
would it be ok, just given the full agenda tonight, if we delayed item three
until the next meeting?
James Keene, City Manager: Yes, Mr. Mayor – not, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Chairmen.
You know, typically we try to accomplish the Policy and Services Committee
business in about three hours. It’s 6:15 now so that would be 9:15 and so
we have the three items, aircraft noise, the second item is the
recommendation from the Utilities Advisory Commission and Staff related to
or fiber to the potentially our fiber initiative. I know that the Committee has
been anxiously been waiting to see that and that will be an involved
discussion so we can move off item three relating to relation related to
recreational medical Marijuana. Your next meeting will be on June 13th and
the City Attorney advises that we would need to have that item scheduled at
that particular time. That being said, anybody who is here for Item Number
3, medical marijuana, that will be removed and rescheduled until June 13th.
Chair Wolbach: Let me just ask, was anyone here to speak to Item 3? Ok. In
that case, if it’s alright with the fellow Members of the Committee, we’ll table
item three until the next meeting. That way, also the Staff who is here to
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work on that item is free to take off for the evening. With that, let’s move on
to item number one. Again, this is to discuss the topic of aircraft noise,
review federal legislative updates and recommend that City Council reaffirms
the City’s positions to reduce aircraft noise and make other
recommendations as needed to advance the City’s goals to reduce aircraft
noise over the skies of Palo Alto. We do have a number of public speakers.
We will give each person three minutes to speak. You don’t have to use all
three minutes. If you simply want to concur with somebody else, feel free to
do that. Our first speaker is Jon Zweig, to be followed by Jennifer
Landesmann. So, we’ll start with Jon and Jennifer, you will be on deck.
Jon Zweig: Hello. Yeah, as you probably know, the next gen. has had the
result of concentrating the aircraft flight route into a very narrow path,
which happens to be over Palo Alto. This is a feature because it reduces the
number of people who are exposed to airplane noise; good. This is a bug if
you happen to be one of the (inaudible) who lives under that path. It’s a big
enough issue for people who live in Palo Alto that – we’re really grateful that
the City has devoted resources to it over the last few years. The bottom line
is that Palo Alto shouldn’t bear an unfair burden – disproportionate burden of
the noise. The noise should be shared in some way and this is a – one of the
bottom lines of we’re I think we ought to be headed with this. I’m thinking
that it’s an active enough issue that it might be worth considering an
ongoing Committee. Perhaps a Citizens Advisory Committee or having it be a
standing item – standing agenda item of one of the Committees of the City
Council to keep the momentum going on this because we’ve made some
progress but the airplanes are still flying pretty much the way that they
were. Bottom of line is some kind of ongoing body that considers this at a
regular interval. Thanks.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you. Next speaker is Jennifer Landesmann, to be
followed by Jay Whaley. I hope I pronounced that right. Jennifer.
Jennifer Landesmann: Thank you. Committee Members there are (inaudible)
interest who will work very hard to keep the concentration of low flying jets
over our City as is. When the FAA responses, this discussion will advance for
better or for worse. I urge the City to establish a high-level goal of getting a
more equable distribution of traffic and to do so by first, eliminating noise
with routes which can enter the bay at the highest altitudes. I believe that
the FAA can assist with this because designing optimal routes, if doable, is
not contrary to their interest to have a sustainable system. They would not
be working on this if it hardly mattered to their agency. To negotiate the
path to solutions, the City must engage a lead advisory and high specialized
FAA experts. I ask that you investigate also what other Cities are doing. For
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example, Clover City retained Barbara Lichman, a renown environmental
aviation attorney in the outreach to the FAA on behalf of her client. If Ms.
Lichman needs a noise analysis, she retains a noise expert and when she
needs an expert to engage with the FAA on procedures and routes, she
engaged the firm; for example, Williams Aviation, which has at the helm
former aircraft organization senior executives. The firm Williams also has
extensive experience in bringing communities together on projects and is
very knowledgeable of Bay Area air space from past projects. [Mr. Tom
Kaman] at Williams has been at FAA meetings on the current Bay Area and
there should of as well, advising Portola Valley. Moreover, these air traffic
organization experts are on record that assessments of the route that enters
the bay at higher altitudes farther south are the only way to get real
solutions for the mid-peninsula. Neither you, Staff or our (inaudible) citizens
can replace the highly specialized expertise required in deep discussions with
the FAA, which are necessary to determine and implement the right
solutions. Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Alright, we’re off to a good start. Both the first two speakers
didn’t use all of their time so we’re moving along. Jay Whaley, I hope I…
Jay Whaley: Jay Whaley.
Chair Wolbach: ...Whaley, thank you for correcting me and the next…
Jay Whaley: My wife Sally and I lived in the Crescent Park area –
neighborhood now for a number of years and we’ve reported our concerns
about low-flying air crafts. I understand that there have now been 3.2
million reports in one year and we’ve been part of that reporting. I won’t go
over the details of what we said except that I invite you to come over to our
home on Sunday evenings and sit outside with our barbecue and you’ll see
how often our conversation is interrupted but we can also wave to the
people as they are landing in San Francisco. I would like to comment on this
report that you have tonight and that I got off the internet that you are
using about your recommendation – the recommendations. It’s report
number ID81423 and that’s a part of that 112-page packet. I just have two
comments to make that I would like to recommend that you continue
because I totally agree with what you say. It says that Staff recommends
that the City Council reaffirm its position and seek a seat on the Select
Committee’s proposed AD HAC Committee. When the Select Committee met
and gave their recommendations, the Committee was made up of 12
members and 12 alternates. Palo Alto has one alternate and had no one on
the – as a member. Santa Cruz had four people as members and four as
alternates. That’s eight and Palo Alto had one and that’s how this
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recommendation came by. I think it’s very important that we understand
that because the recommendation that is in your report on page three, says
that the City’s position align with number four and that is to design an
entirely new route that takes advantage of non-residential areas. The
southerly arrivals, as it’s been reported, -- there’s northerly, westerly and
southerly arrival and the southern route that is proposed here, which came
out of the Select Committee, comes right over the Menlo Way Point. Which is
exactly almost where we live and so I would recommend that you strongly
push for what you say here. That the City position aligns itself with number
four of this recommendation. Thank you. I have also submitted my report in
a letter which you have got sent to.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you. Our next speaker is Mark Landesmann to be
followed by Andy Robin. So, Mark?
Mark Landesmann: (Inaudible) Thank you for your effort in writing the Staff
report which however contains several critical factual errors and misleading
statements, which is unfortunate and uncharacteristic. Because of the short
speaking time, I will only give one example. In regard to westerly arrives,
which accounts for the majority of noise and emissions which are bestowed
on us in the middle of the night. The report states that City Staff is
effectively aligned with a position, which essentially says that Asian flights
have to fly at low attitudes in the middle of the night over Palo Alto because
they could otherwise run out of fuel. This is quite simply not true. The
central element of the deployment of the new gen system of the FAA is to
allow planes, as much as possible, to fly on the most direct path from origin
to the destination while they are at cruising altitude. The direct path from
Beijing and from other leading Asian points of origin to (inaudible) such as
Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. is such that the shortest path and the
most direct path these origins approach (inaudible) from the northwest. No
airline flight has ever run out of fuel while crossing the Atlantic Ocean or the
Pacific Ocean. Rain or shine, the airlines had made the trip from Asia to the
US have plenty of fuel reserved but if for some strange reason that they
would run out of fuel or be close to be running out of fuel on the way to
SFO, the very last thing that they would do as they approach the airport
from the northwest, is to take a sightseeing trip down the peninsula and
over Palo Alto. This makes no sense. In defense of the City Staff, the
statement and flights from Asia have to cross Palo Alto does not come from
the Staff itself but rather has been given to Staff of various unnamed
speakers. But here in lies the rub, Palo Alto has been spoon feed similar
non-sequential excuses for why SFO noise and emissions has to be move to
our City for more than 17-years. Strangely, no reason was ever found to
transferring to us any SFO’s $800 million dollars in annual revenues. The
reason we retained in an excellent consulting team is that we should stop
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excepting such nonsense. In this instance and for the report as a whole, a
single phone call to [Jack Krytac] would suffice to unveil the truth. Several of
the other statements in the City Staff report had equally or even more
salient to an understanding of our current situation and the need to an
urgent action for which we repeatedly press. Sky Policy will also provide a
more comprehensive response to the City Staff report and to Council by the
beginning of next week. Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you. Our next speaker is Andy Robin, to be followed
by Joel Hayflick.
Andy Robin: Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity to speak. I’ve been
living here for 31-years and an assertion that flights have to fly 747s over
my house at 12:30-1 o’clock and 1:30 in the morning are obviously wrong
because they haven’t been doing that for 30-years. I do know that they are
extremely annoying. My wife often has a hard time sleeping through it, she
wakes up and then is awake for a couple hours trying to go back to sleep.
We entertain in our backyard and as another person said, we don’t do that
anymore because it’s too noisy out there. Jets are going over all the time
and so it just seems like an abusive thing that’s been done to our City by the
FAA. I guess – I noticed that the Council took a huge amount of action over
High Speed Rail and over the notion that the trusses would be running along
Alma Street to elevate the trains and the Council went crazy and there have
been all kinds of action and with other Cities. Yeah, I’d ask you to do
something like that on this issue too because this is another terrible quality
of life disruption. It’s really pretty awful for our whole City. So, please
redouble your efforts and put more into it. You know, if you don’t squeak
loud, it ain’t going to happen. Everybody is going to have to hear lots of loud
complaints everywhere and as one person suggested, bring on the experts
like that was done with High Speed Rail and fight; fight hard. Thanks for
your help and commitment.
Chair Wolbach: Next speaker is Joel Hayflick, to be followed by Toni Rath. I
should have mentioned it early. We generally do have a policy of not
encouraging applause, cheers, boos etc. just to make sure that no matter
what somebodies perspective is, they don’t feel uncomfortable. It’s just a
standard practice of decorum for the Council and Committees. Just wanted
to mention that.
Joel Hayflick: Hello. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. My
name is Joel Hayflick. My wife and I live in mid-town Palo Alto. We’ve lived
here for 10-years. I grew up in this area, moved to Seattle and then came
back 10-years ago. Every day, over 300 jets over my house that are low and
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loud. Every single day. That’s only the ones to San Francisco. There’s also
jets flying in and out to San Jose. They fly out to La Jolla over the house
from San Jose. They also fly out of Oakland and go – and turn west to
Hawaii as well. That’s an under representation the 300 jets in that diagram
right there. Anyway, the chronic, long-term effect of aircraft noise from low
and loud jet aircraft on humans is well documented. This is not a problem
that we can just continue to work on day after day after year after year. This
is a negative impact on the chronic well-being – on the well-being of the
population. Not only in Palo Alto but in the rest of the area. I concur with
some of the comments and suggestions that were made by Jennifer and Sky
Pose group in terms of bringing in the experts, getting involved in not only
the SFO round table but also the San Jose proposed Roundtable, which I’ve
heard is also being looked at as a means to get local civic groups involved,
regional communities involved and become a component of a regional
solution. Be on the forefront of a regional solution for Palo Alto and the
region. Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you. Our next speaker is Toni Rath. If I am
mispronouncing any of these names, please feel free to correct me. Followed
by Darlene Yapleetvick.
Toni Rath: Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Toni. I am a
long-time resident of Mountain View and I am concerned about some parts
of the proposal regarding airplane noise that are being put forth here.
Specifically, the parts about directing airplane traffic around Palo Alto and
instead of having it pass over Los Altos and Mountain View, your neighbors.
These are basically the same perimeters that annoy residents here so they
are going to be ok in Mountain View and in Los Altos? I don’t think so. The
repeated claim that traffic over Los Altos and Mountain View would travel at
much higher altitudes is simply not true. It’s baloney. It’s much the same
perimeters. I would like to ask that you instead work with neighboring
communities instead of against them so that together we can bring change
that will actually improve the situation for everyone. Yes, everyone. The
usual physics of airplane noise means that how airplanes fly, the speed and
the use of flats and flaps and so on makes a bigger difference than tweaks
on the altitude. You should consider that. These changes – these things have
changed a few years ago and the FAA is working on them as a result of the
Select Committee’s work. Let’s see what those improvements are before we
start pushing things to our neighbors. The Committee could also suggest
that SFO levy landing fees scaled to airplane noise and that could address
things like the Airbus whine. The Committee should ask Congress to give the
FAA a general mandate to reduce noise. This is sorely lacking and that could
also address things like the Airbus whine. The Committee could ask
Congress to ask the FAA to establish a Residents Advisory Board to Next
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Gen. to parallel the Industry Advisory Board so that residents have a voice
in airplane noise concerns. Working against your neighbor is not a one-way
street. Communities south of Palo Alto are already experiencing high levels
of airplane noise. Palo Alto could easily find itself in a receiving position if
Sunny Vale and Mountain View start advocating to send south (inaudible)
traffic that is currently going to San Jose over Palo Alto. In a situation where
everyone works against everyone, nobody wins. Let’s not go there. Mountain
View and Palo Alto have a history of working well together so let’s keep
doing it. We are stronger together. Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you for your comments and Darlene Yapleetvick, to be
followed by Vicky Reich.
Darlene Yapleetvick: First, thank you to the Policy and Services Committee
and Staff for your leadership to help remediate airplane noise for our City.
We appreciate your attention to this important topic. I would like to build a
little bit on the report that was done. We are positive towards reaffirming
the City’s position to reduce airplane noise. I’d like to build on that with that
we would like it to be updated to feature the highest priority items from the
Select Committee and Roundtable reports. Second, to include community
feedback as you will be hearing tonight and that everything is reviewed for
technical accuracy by experts. Another piece of that is that we should
address the misperception that Palo Alto wants to move noise to other Cities
and focus on a region solution. We believe that this reaffirmation of the
City’s positions should be updated before the FAA’s response is made public
and before Council goes on summer break so that we are ready for any
response that does come. My colleague Vicky will add on some additional
items.
Chair Wolbach: Well, actually we could just – we’ll finish three minutes for
you and then we will go on to Vicky.
Darlene Yapleetvick: We’re good, we’re good. We’re a team.
Chair Wolbach: Then we will go onto Vicky. Next speaker.
Vicky Reich: We’re good.
Chair Wolbach: Go ahead, Vicky.
Vicky Reich: So, continuing on, I’m going to talk about representation, noise
monitors, the City’s respond to the FAA, FAA timing and one last tiny little
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request. With regard to our presentation, with professional advice and I
stress that let’s seek representation on any airplane noise body whose
actions could impact Palo Alto including any – those recommended by the
Select Committee either AD HAC or permanent or both, and please reach out
to NSU. The SFO Round Table and the new group San Jose airport might be
forming to address reverse flow and arrivals. With regards to noise monitors,
let’s get professional advice again, about installing noise monitors. Noise
data properly defined, gathered and analyzed seems like a good idea. The
City’s respond to the FAA. Once the FAA’s response is publicly available, we
ask Policy and services to respond quickly and effectively via a document
created with both community input and expert advice so the City can act.
Timing, we ask that these items be moved forward before you recess for the
summer. Last, we ask the City to host a working session with citizens and
experts to answer questions and to foster policy alignment and thank you all
three. Really appreciate it.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you Vicky and our next speaker is Karen Porter, to be
followed by George Block.
Karen Porter: Thank you. I echo the comments that everybody has made
about the importance of addressing the noise that has seemed to invaded
our community and the adverse health consequences that result from that. I
do want to emphasize that I think the adverse health consequences that are
associated with emissions from the jet exhaust that I think are being
overlooked. Particulate matter from plan exhaust is recognized as arguably
posting perhaps the most serious health risk according to a 2015 report
published by the airport corporative research program, which was sponsored
by the FAA. Particulate matter is associated with serious respiratory,
cardiovascular illnesses and premature mortality. Oh, sorry. Well,
historically the FAA has only looked at emissions that are in what’s known as
the landing and the takeoff cycle which is 3,000-feet above ground level and
closer to airports but other modeling studies have shown health impacts
farther from airports and at higher altitudes of between 3,000 and 5,000-
feet. So, of course, which are most of the flights impacting Palo Alto these
days. I think it’s important – I would ask the Committee to include in our
statement that it’s important to emphasize the FAA to focus on the health
effects of emission. The FAA has tools that can model these effects as part of
its – it’s called the AEDT tool that can easily model emission and we
encourage the City to require this testing. Thanks so much.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you Karen and our next speaker is George Block to be
followed by Robert Finn.
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George Block: Thank you, Mr. Chair and Council Members. I’m here
basically to support what’s been said already and ask the Council to continue
its support of trying to resolve this issue. I can say little other expect that
maybe number three, Medical Marijuana would become a high priority
should the noise continue.
Chair Wolbach: George Block. Oh, I’m sorry, that was George. My mistake.
Robert Finn to be followed by Robert Holbrook.
Robert Finn: Thank you. My wife and I have lived here since 1982. For
32-years we treasured our home for it’s quite and convenient location.
Airplane noise didn’t exist for us. Then suddenly in 2014, we found ourselves
besieged by planes flying loudly over us at low altitudes and clearly
indifferent to any personal needs of residents. No explanation came from
any official source but we somehow learned that a new landing pattern for
SFO labeled Next Gen. had just been instituted. There could be no other
plausible explanation. We were not the only ones affected and appeals and
hearings and sued and then sued and then sued. With not step taken toward
any elevation. In a draft report from a major Committee issued last October,
I found the paragraph and I quote precisely. “Some have proposed returning
to pre-Next Gen procedures. The draft report rejects that option so merely
for the reason that FAA was required by law to adopt new and advanced
technology.’ This seems to say that Congress required FAA to make things
new, even if doing so would make them disastrously worse. I’m dubious that
even our present Congress would accept such a demand. Should I disregard
my simple kitchen can opener, which works falsely and replaces it by an
elaborate device that makes a lot of noise but won’t open my cans. If the
system really has to be new and expensive, please at least get it changed
from Next Gen. Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you for your comments. Robert Holbrook, to be
followed by Kerry Yarkin.
Robert Holbrook: My name is Robert Holbrook. I am a resident of Mountain
View. I use to live in Palo Alto. Like one of the previous speakers, I moved
up to Seattle. Had a very bad experience with airplanes there. I rented a
house a lovely sunny day, a week later the weather shifted and stayed
shifted for 9-months and I had airplanes over my house for 9-months
straight. I moved back and I resolved that I am not going to do that again. I
did the research and prioritized airplane noise as number one and I moved
to Mountain View. I didn’t move to Palo Alto because there are airplanes up
here. I believe that people making the most important decision of their lives
should have a reasonable assurance that a flight path is not going to be
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moved over them and that is what you are being asked to endorse today.
Your proposal – the proposal before you are to create more points for
aircraft used while entering SFO. There’s currently one point and this point
centralizes all arrival aircraft noise over Palo Alto. It also suggests
redirecting flights from the south to the east. What these translate to when
you peel the onion on these proposals is a suggestion to introduce a new
waypoint called DUMBA and another waypoint called rock me. Your
consultants did an analysis on this based on their own analysis and there’s
going to be a 6 to 15 decidable increase in air traffic over Mountain View City
Hall where I live. A 6-decidable increase – the way that this is measured
would translate to the same noise generated by four times as many
airplanes as we have now. With Next Gen, these airplanes are likely to be
concentrated into a corridor as some folks have said and this is clearly
shifting noise away from Palo Alto to a new area in Mountain View. That’s
the rock me DUMBA approach. There’s another approach which is called faith
and that would involve moving airplanes over Milpitas. The idea of using the
length of the Bay is a great idea except for the catch that airplanes have to
great to the Bay and we need to be figuring out how the airplanes are going
to get to the Bay and what impact that’s going to have on the communities
underneath them and the impact that your folks have come up with for
Mountain View is very significant. Airplane noise is caused by several factors
and I think it’s one of the least intuitive things in the physical universe. The
power laws associated with the airplane and the sound energy generated by
airplane means that is scales at the 6th power or the 8th power of the speed
of airplanes. Meaning that a slight decrease in the speed of an airplane can
cause as much reduction in the sound of the airplane as 1,000-feet of
altitude. The FAA is now starting to pay attention to this as a result of the
Select Committees actions. I’m hopeful that by changing the way the
airplanes fly and how airplanes fly, we’re going to see a significant reduction
in the noise that’s being generated by them. Probably a bigger – perhaps a
bigger reduction than where the airplanes are flying and the short – the
small changes in the ground path that they cover. In some areas, there have
been big changes. Los Altos saw a big change. Capital of Santa Cruz a big
change. Over Palo Alto, as you approach the Menlo Way Point, the change
gets vanishingly small. Let’s give the FAA a chance to address the issues as
they lead us to believe that they will and see where we are before we talk
about moving the noise to another community. Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you for your comments. Kerry Yarkin to be followed
by Amy Adams.
Kerry Yarkin: Good evening Council Members. I want to contrast what he
just said that you are Palo Alto City Council Members. My parents would not
have moved here 65-years ago – as you know I am native Palo Alton. They
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would never have moved here. We would never have put our stake in the
ground here if there was going to be the arrival zone into SFO. I am
considering moving. I have three siblings in town and it’s horrible. Lydia
Kou, I just wanted to remind you that I went with you to coffee and the
planes were flying over. Tom DuBois, 3-years ago when you ran, you came
to my house for coffee. The planes were flying over. You could not hear Eric
Filseth speak. There are only 20 of us in that small contained room and that
was 3-years ago. I’m pretty sure 3-years ago. Ok, so I don’t have to go on
and on but I would like so peace. I would really, really would like to be able
to sit in our beautiful landscaped back yard and enjoy the sun and be able to
sit there. I cannot do that now. That is a bottom line livability issue for me
and my neighbors. We live in mid-town but it’s Palo Alto. You can listen to
Mountain View, you can listen to Los Altos, you can listen to the East Palo
Alto. You are Palo Alto City Council Members. Another issue that I am a little
concerned about is the fine particulate matter. I have two teenagers and I
do not like to see the planes over my house doing their turn. I’m right
directly under them think about the fine particulate matter affecting their
health. For chronic health problems, I went to the sleep apnea clinic because
now I have sleep apnea and my doctor said – that I went to for this said oh,
I just had someone else from Palo Alto this week. It is affecting us,
particularly Palo Altons. I also have some cardiac arrhythmias which I think
stress – all of this is contributed to it. My recommendations to you are don’t
let (inaudible) off the hook. I saw what she’s – saw her statement with Bill
Johnson and she was saying on no, it was a new administration. I think you
have to read very carefully into or work very carefully with her and don’t let
her off the hook. Have her meet with Nancy Pelosi to get lots of things
through Congress or at least get their voices heard. She can speak with
Dianne Feinstein, the Mayor of San Francisco. They are not that far away.
The airport director, she’s a block away. I don’t know, I’ve been sending her
letters as many people here have been doing and I’ve been calling her.
Nothing – we’re still where we were 3-years ago or worse. Also, I agree with
the Standing Committee. This is not just come here one time. You’ve got a
lot of experts here and I would also agree with what Jennifer Landesmann
said about that we need legal expertise in this aviation area. I wrote to the
City Attorney and I invited her to some of the Select Committee meetings. I
had a conversation, I think back and forth through email. I don’t think our
City Attorney, to be honest with you, or our City has that expertise that
we’re going to need because the noise has been moved onto us. Now
everyone else doesn’t want the noise, I agree with them but we are the
recipients of the noise. The seat on the Select Committee, the whole last
Select Committee was a complete wash for Palo Alto and to have one
alternate. It was stacked from the beginning against us. We are the ones
who are suffering. We have the four lines coming over our homes; 300
planes a day. Thank you.
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Chair Wolbach: Thank you for your comments. Again, we encourage –
regardless of your feelings about a speaker, we do encourage modest
response if anything. Amy Adams to be followed by Bill Murphy.
Amy Adams: My name is Amy Adams (inaudible) Meyer and despite family’s
connection to this Chamber, I come fairly infrequently to these types of
meetings. I came to opposed taser. I came to the discussion about
basement dewatering and I’m here for this issue. The reason is that I feel
passionate about all of those issues personally and I feel that they affect the
quality of life in our community. You might be interested to know that I’ve
actually never reported airplanes over my house despite the fact that they
are coming over on average about every 3-minutes. The reason this is
because I am actually extremely busy. I work as a physician. I’m usually at
work from 7 AM to 7 PM. I get up very early and I actually go to bed pretty
late. I have a young child. My husband is very busy. We have a lot of
extracurricular activities going on. I need to sleep with ear plugs when I go
to bed. I am woken up frequently after 1 AM and I am awakening again
before – around 5 – 6 AM. It’s intolerable to me. I am gone most of the day.
I actually live with my mother who is here in the front row. Her great
passion is actually gardening. She has no passion for that right and she’s
actually pretty depressed about it. She literally is sitting outside and there’s
maybe a minute where there is no noise. I absolutely agree that we need to
do unto others as we have them do unto you. I don’t think that a narrow
path of airplanes over one community should just be shifted five or ten miles
to another community. I don’t think anybody really in this room really
advocates that. I think what they would like to do is have the quality of life
that they purchased in our community. I happen to live in a craftsmen’s
home. I happened to have more air conditioning. I don’t think people really
need that in California and so the noise is just that much loud of us because
there are open windows and because of insulation and all of that. I’m sure
many, many other people have those type of old fashion California homes. I
think that the people in my family who live in rural Michigan and paid about
$100,000 for their home, if they were to come visit me in my tiny little
house on this little lot and look up and see that it looks like I live next to the
airport would think that I am insane to live here. Is that what we want for
our community? For people to laugh at us and go what a joke you snob. You
live there and it’s shitty. Sorry, to be rude but that’s how I feel right now
and like I said, I come very infrequently but it’s really disturbing my ability
to even work because I can’t get any sleep.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you for your comments and the next speaker is Bill
Murphy, to be followed by Mary Jo Freemont.
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Bill Murphy: I live currently about five blocks into Mountain View Past San
Antonio Road but I grew up in Palo Alto and I lived here from 1959 until
buying my house in Mountain View in 1988. I can tell people here who
believe – I’ll get to why the change happen in a moment but Palo Alto never
had airplane noise and it got moved onto Palo Alto. That’s not true and it’s
never been true. The airplane noise has been roughly equal of what I am
experiencing now in Mountain View and I have 100s of overflights over my
house every day. What changed? I’m in that swooping green line there. See
the sharp orange line coming up from the south, Next Gen didn’t move
sound – didn’t move airplanes over you but what it did was it concentrated
them over a narrow corridor and to stay in a narrow corridor, they started
gunning their engines to conform with the corridor. Gunning your engines
calling – that’s a very noisy thing. They hit their speed brakes, that’s noisy
thing. They fly low. They weren’t behaving nice but the nature of this
problem is you have this bright orange line. I’m in the big scatter of the
green line and I have constant buzzing of mosquito like airplanes over my
house 24/7. It’s always been since 1988. Not change and then during Next.
Gen or reverse flow for five months every year, I get extraordinary noise like
Palo Altons and I feel your pain because it’s real but experience what that
orange like that’s going over Churchill and Rinconada Park. The reverse flow
is flying underneath – it’s a San Jose arrival that goes up in a horseshoe,
flips a U-turn at Mountain View – sometimes it gets as far north as Palo Alto
but it flies underneath these SFO arrivals. You’re getting 3,000-footer but for
five months out of the year, Mountain View gets 2,000-footers and they are
really making a turn so they are always gunning their engines. The problem
is that Next Gen. created this conforming line. It consolidated it and it made
– in a much more painful non-dispersed way what you are experiencing. See
how I get dispersal – dispersion, of that orange line – actually, it turns out –
you see 30%, about a 4th or about 8% vectors right and it’s hiding in that
green swoop because they have to kill time to get to the bay. I actually get
about a 4th of your traffic, killing time, vectoring right. You can almost see it.
See that little bit of orange on that outside edge of the green swoosh; like
that? The solution is somehow dispersion. Nobody moved planes over you.
They consolidated or made in a concatenative fashion noise over you. Your
pain is really and you’ve always had tons of airplanes here. I grew up here. I
grew up when the P3s were flying out of Moffit with nuclear death charges
waiting to drop them on Russian subs that were off the coast because there
was a 6-minute launch time. That’s my point. Don’t beggar thy neighbor by
presuming to put any of one neighbor’s problem onto Mountain View and Los
Altos, which suffers significantly already.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you for your comments and I just wanted to ask if
there are another speaker cards, please get them in now. We are getting
some more in late. We’ll allow those speakers to make their comments but
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after this speaker, we’ll close comment submissions. Mary Jo Freemont is
the next speaker and just so you’re ready is Mark Millet.
Mary Jo Freemont: Thank you for giving me another opportunity to talk
about the airplane noise. First, I think it’s a great positive step to see the
Policy and Services Committee involved so thank you to the City for stepping
it up. You need to keep going. It’s not just one meeting so I hope you will
continue to be engaged. We are all waiting for these FAA responses. It has
been six months and in any place that I know of, I think people would have
been fired on not to provide any response to the public that involves
hundreds of thousands of citizens. Six months in total silence from the FAA
and this I think is unacceptable but what the City should do is that I don’t
think to send another letter to the FAA but better to prepare each response
to that FAA response. I have three suggestions for that. First, you each need
to understand what is important for Palo Alto. What are the really critical
issues and what the positions of the City are on these issues? It’s like in any
negotiation, you should know your trade off and you should know your walk
away positions. This is no different here. The second suggestion is use data.
There is so much misinformation and so many fake news and so many
misperceptions. Palo Alto has never – I can’t speak for the City but I’ll speak
as a resident, Palo Alto has never said that we move (inaudible) to another
City. These narrow corridors should never exist but the fact that now 60% of
the SFO arrivals are within 2-miles of the Menlo Way Point, that’s data that
can be proven with all the flight data information. By the way, it’s not Palo
Alto’s traffic, it’s SFO traffic so we don’t own that airplane traffic. It just
happened that over time and especially with Next Gen., it came to Palo Alto.
So, use the data and use the facts. The good news is that the problem is
well documented because all this flight data information exists so don’t rely
on opinions. Then the third recommendation is to engage with others.
Engage with other Cities, engage as many educated citizens who have spent
thousands of hours to try to really understand the problem and I think many
of them are very talented. Engage with the San Francisco Round Table. The
fact that 60% of the arrivals are within 2-miles of the Menlo Way Point but
there is not one monitoring noise station from SFO around this 2-miles. It’s
unbelievable to me. That’s data, not an opinion so thank you for your help
but I really believe that now is the time to really work on what Palo Alto
matters and engaging with others as well. By the way, engage with the San
Francisco Air Port. They are designing their new landing system, which will
be GPS based and yet again, the Cities that are most effective are not even
consulted. This is another data point. That’s not an opinion. The reality is if
you design a new landing system, you need to talk to people who are going
to be affected with arrivals. Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Mark Millet, to be followed by Beth Ericksen.
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Mark Millet: Thank you for your time today. I would like to echo everything
that has said earlier today but one thing that hasn’t been brought up is the
property values in places that have been historically been flight path
concentrated. Those are 10 percent-15 percent lower than they are in other
neighborhoods and if we allow the FAA to continue flying over our houses --
I’m in Mountain View/Los Altos border. I’ve got San Francisco and San Jose
flying simultaneously over my house. If we allow that to happen, people are
going to move out and that’s going to reduce the value of the property. If
we reduce the value of the property, that effects City budgets permanently.
This is not small things. This is 10 percent value on an average $2 million
dollar house in Palo Alto, it’s $200,000 of evaluation so this is a lot of
economic effect long term on people’s assets, people’s retirements and the
City. I also have terrible problems sleeping and woken up at all hours. There
is just not justification for what’s happened other than the FAA has chosen
to punish us. We’ve all been here for this tremendous effort that everyone
put in; Joe Simitian put in to run this whole Round Table in this room, all the
complaints, yet a 2-3-week response period has come back with nothing.
Thank you so much.
Chair Wolbach: Next speaker is Beth Ericksen, to be followed by our final
speaker Nelson Ng.
Beth Ericksen: Hi, I’m Beth Ericksen and I’m your neighbor from Mountain
View.
Chair Wolbach: Oh, could you speak into the mic? I want to make sure that
we can hear you. You can move it down if you need to or whatever is
comfortable for you.
Beth Ericksen: I’m Beth Erickesen and I’m short. Ok, I’m your neighbor and
a lot of people think that San Antonio divided Mountain View from Palo Alto
and that’s not quite true because some of Palo Alto is on the other side of
San Antonio like the Toyota dealer. We are kind of like really meshed
together so we’re talking about airplane noise so it doesn’t just disappear at
the border. Currently, I live in the [Matalowmen] neighborhood, which is
right next to Google X. I have Surfer, Bodega, and San Jose Reverse Flow.
We have the surf little planes. We have Oceanic. We have San Jose
departures going to Japan and so these are some of the same things that
you have and so it’s really a regional problem. I see all these Cities spending
big bucks to get all their consultants and things like that to fix it in their own
little providence but we’re all in this together. I really, really, really would
hope that you would reach out to the other Cities. Reach out to Mountain
View, even if they don’t reach out to you. I don’t know my City Council
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sometimes but we’ve got to solve this together because this is a regional
problem. I mean, if we could get these vortex mufflers on the planes and the
A320s, that would help significantly. I just came back from my daughter’s
graduation and I was embarrassed to realize I was on an A320 and I
thought, oh my gosh! Who am I bothering because these go over my house
and this whine just drives me nuts. It wakes me up at night and I’m like, I
know that part is $3,000 and Congress can’t tell them that they have to put
this part on. In certain Cities in Europe, you can’t land a plane unless you
have the vortex muffler. As a regional thing, if you get together with other
Cities and you’re going to spend money on consultants, pool it. Do it
together and don’t reinvent the wheel for each City. Please work together.
Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Alright, and it looks like we have our last speaker unless –
was there one final speaker card on this topic, we’ll be happy to hear it. I
just want to make sure that nobody else is going to put in a speaker card.
Everybody set? Great. Nelson Ng?
Nelson Ng: Hi. My name is Nelson Ng and I like at 1260 (inaudible) Street
for the last 20-years with my family. During the course over the last 20-
years, I have noticed that these plane noises have significantly increased in
our area. It’s to a point where it’s unbearable. Echoing some of the speakers
on what they said. I’ve been waking up in the middle of the night;
sometimes 1 or 2 AM in the morning. Then also, as some of you guys know
that I also like to practice my Tai Chi meditation in the garden. A lot of times
in the morning like 5 or 6 o’clock in the morning, the planes are constantly
coming. Not one after another between 5 and 7 AM and this is just not – just
really impacting our quality of life and this is not just happening to me but
then also, many of the people that I spoke with in Palo Alto. I have not been
set involved in the issues on getting all the data but then I have lived
through a lot of this pain for the last number of years. I really think that Palo
Alto needs to step up and get a see on the table. Discuss with other Cities
around us to figure out what is the right course of action that we need to do.
This is just not expectable the way we are doing it right now. I tried to make
it quick and hopefully, I will listen to you guys on what you guys have
planned for us.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you very much for your comment and our very last
speaker is Juan Alonso.
Juan Alonso: Thank you for listening to my comments. My name is Juan
Alonso. I’m a neighbor to Stanford in Palo Alto and I’m a professor of
aeronautics and astronautics at Stanford University. I’ve also served at the
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FAA Advisory Council and I current service on the FAA Advisory Council for
research, engineering and the development for the alphas for Energy and
Environment. I’m pretty well informed in all matters related to aviation and
environmental impact, aircraft design and all those other things. I’ve heard
lots of interesting things today and sometimes you hear facts that are sort of
misleading and somewhat incorrect so I warn you against listening to
everything that’s here but rather talk to experts who actually know the
answer to some of these topics. I think Jennifer Landesmann had mentioned
this topic. The first step in solving the situation that’s affecting Palo Alto and
neighboring communities is to minimize the noise that is emitted and that
reaches the ground wherever it is; whether its Palo Alto or other
communities. Once you have chosen the proper routes that are safe, that
increase capacity to our airport but at the same time minimize the noise on
the environmental impact. You have to equative distribute the noise that
remains and there will be some noise that actually remains so don’t be
fooled into believing that there’s an actual solution that allows us to fly in
and out of the San Francisco airport with zero noise to of the neighboring
communities. That’s not engineering and physically feasible today but the
equative distribution of the noise is something that should be achieved and
no single communities – not a single community or parts of a single
community should burden or should shoulder the entire burden of having the
entire noise footprint. The FAA has to burden do discovered new methods
and new approaches that in addition to increasing safety and minimizing fuel
burn, which typically their mandate, decrease the noise over the neighboring
communities. Particulate matter is also a concern that some people have
mentioned. Now with that said, we have no choice but to work with the FAA
because ultimately, they are going to be the ones implementing the
solutions that may benefit our community. I am sorry if I go over time but
the …
Chair Wolbach: You still have about a minute left.
Juan Alonso: Ok. Working with the FAA is really critical so you have to
engage on all levels. Round Tables, SFO, FAA, political and community
activism in order to keep the pressure on the FAA in order to do the right
thing. It is important that we not only as Palo Altons work with the FAA but
also with the neighboring communities because the FAA will never come
back and implement a different that satisfies Palo Alto but makes the same
issue arise in a different community and they are back to square zero. They
said it very clearly and it’s not something that they are going to be doing.
We have to work with the other communities to come up with not a local
solution but a regional solution that is satisfactory to all. Everybody will have
to shoulder a little bit of pain but certainly, the situation can be improved for
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many of the communities that have the large burden at the moment. Then, I
think last – sorry.
Chair Wolbach: You can go ahead and finish your last statement.
Juan Alonso: If you don’t mind, just 30 more seconds. Last but not least, I
think you can see that the problem is actually real. You know, we may have
had a number of airplanes flying over Palo Alto in the past. Their routes were
much more dispersed such that no small section of the population of Palo
Alto was being impacted disproportionality. The problem is very real. The
citizens of Palo Alto obviously are voting with their feet by coming here to let
you know that this is a very important issue. I do agree with some of the
speakers that even though the wheels of government move very slowly and
I’m talking about the FAA now. You have the ability through various different
means to pressure in various different points in order to achieve some
results more quickly. I do think that ensuring that the City of Palo Alto is
properly advised by experts who know about these things is a very
important issue and I encourage you to make sure that you do input from
these sources. Thank you very much.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you for your comments and thank you, everybody,
who came to speak. All those opinions that you’ve shared, I think are well
heard and many points well taken and so we’ll try and make sure that all of
those thoughts and opinions are respected and taken into consideration. I’ll
turn now to Staff and if you have a presentation or any introduction beyond
that for…
Mr. Keene: Thank you, Mr. Chair. No, the Staff does not have a formal
presentation. I would just if – with your indulgence, just restate a couple of
things. So, first of all, really thanks to everybody who came out tonight. This
item really came onto the Committee’s agenda because Council Members
asked me to place it on the Policy and Services Committee agenda for the
express purpose of not losing site of all of the work and the conversations
and the concerns that have been expressed and building up in the
community over the past two, three years. Not to let the Select Committee’s
work just sort of fade into the background. Even though we’ve been in this
kind of awkward interregnum here between the Select Committee finishing
its report and it is being sent off to the FAA and Washington and where are
things. I do think that your desire to – not in a token sense at all but to
reaffirm the City’s commitment and the Council’s commitment to staying
focused on this issue, to restate the City’s position and obviously, you’ve
heard enough comments that both say that we’re – no pun intended, all over
the map a little bit in some our recommendations. I guess we should have a
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Next Gen. strategy for our own positions that focus them a little bit more
clearly; no pun intended there either. To be effective ultimately, we’re going
to have to be as clear as possible and that’s one of the things that you
wanted to accomplish. You also wanted to have the opportunity to make it
clear that our Council very much understands that this is a regional issue
and we have to work collaboratively with others. That the City’s positions are
not and has never been about pushing everything away from Palo Alto. I just
would lastly like to say that a number of things that people said were really
great. I thought that the handout that you got was very helpful. I thought
that the last speaker’s points – some of the things that were sort of the most
simply stated, I think are guideposts that we ought to use as we revisit this
with both the Committee and the Council. I mean about just being clear,
minimize the noise, equitably distribute the noise, acknowledge that the
problem is real and that the – being realistic about the role of the FAA and
that we’ve got to work with the FAA. I would say we’re here to listen to the
Committee. To what extent that you wanted to sharpen or refine any of the
position points that the City has. Some of that I think you could do tonight.
Others I would think you need to direct us to take some of the comments
and find a way to come back. I know that there are recommendations about
getting some of this done really before Council goes on break and I think
that that’s important but I don’t think we should lose sight of the fact that
almost no matter what we do, once the FAA report comes out, we’re going
to be responding to that report and positioning and looking at our or
reposition our positions and stuff to be most effective. Those are our
comments and I look forward to at least your conversation and then where
you want to go from here tonight.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you, City Manager for that. Before I turn it over to my
Colleagues on the Committee, I just wanted to offer a couple of framing
thoughts about this. Pick up on what the City Manager has just said. Several
of us on Council did say that we really want to see this some to the Policy
and Services Committee because there’s been this holding pattern. Again,
sorry for another pun but there’s been this waiting and what’s going on?
Where a lot of people in the community of Palo Alto and in other
communities haven’t really seen clarity about what is the City’s position and
in that vacuum, some people are concerned about is the City still being
proactive on this issue? Is the City still listening to us and in neighboring
Cities, there’s also a perception often and I think we’ve heard some of it
tonight, that Palo Alto is interested in taking our problem and simply shifting
its other communities. Which I – I agree with the City Manager that I don’t
think that’s ever been our position and so for our own residents and for
residents and City leaders and neighboring communities, we felt that it was
very important to be clear in the context of the ongoing work in light of the
reports from the Round Table and also from the Selection Committee. To be
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clear about what are position is so that’s very transparent and very open
and that there’s not just a vacuum with which we – where we can speculate
about where does Palo Alto stand. We felt that that was important so I hope
that that’s part of what we really try to clarify tonight. Is where is the City’s
position in the current context? I think we can maybe talk about a few
audiences that we want to be clear too. As I just mentioned, one is our own
residents, another is neighboring communities, and also our representatives.
Specifically, our representative Anna Eshoo and the FAA itself and so I hope
that over the course of our discussion tonight we can work as a Committee
and working with Staff to clarify what next steps that we want to take as a
city and what we want to recommend to the Council for next steps to take as
a City to communicate effectively with the residents, neighboring Cities,
Representative Eshoo and with the FAA. With that, I’ll turn it over to my
colleagues if they want to kick off the conversation about where we should
go.
Council Member Kou: My understanding is that when you and – Chair, as
well as Council – Vice Mayor and Council Member Fine, went to Washington,
can you – you met with the FAA and it would be really nice to hear what
came out from that and what you can bring home so that we – so the
audience – I mean our citizens here are aware. Also, I see in the audience
San Francisco air port’s noise complaint manager. I was wondering if he was
supposed to speak also today? Was that something that was – I read it in
here somewhere.
Khashayar Alaee, Management Analyst: We invited Burt and thank you so
much for coming but he is only here to respond to Council questions and
concerns.
Council Member Kou: So, can we first hear from you and then maybe I will
have some other questions.
Chair Wolbach: Sure. I’ll mention a couple things about our trip to
Washington. As Lydia Kou just pointed out that several of us from the City,
with Staff, our paid lobbyist for the City and several of us on Council went to
Washington in March. We sat down with the FAA who – I will say that the
members of the FAA that we met with were quite generous with their time
on a snowy day in D.C. They came in even when most people in the office
were not there because of the snow. What we heard from them was that
they are working on responding to both the SFO Round Table
recommendations and they are also working on responding to the regional
Select Committee recommendations. They’ve taken the combined 108
recommendations from those two bodies and they are preparing a report.
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Hopefully, we will have that report, they said, by the summer. Now it’s
looking like we might have it within the next few weeks. Originally, we were
hoping to have it some time ago but at least we heard that they are working
on it. As it was mentioned early, the gears of government do sometimes
work slowly. They also mentioned a couple of other things, that they are
creating kind of a working group within the FAA to discuss how to deal with
airplane noise differently. How do deal with noise differently because there
hasn’t really been a modernization of how they deal with noise in a very long
time and we’ve seen the results of that? of course, one of the
recommendations from the Select Committee was to really change the
process by which noise is evaluated by the FAA because the current system
is really inadequate. So those where a couple of the thing that we heard
from the FAA so they said basically, that we’re working on it but of course,
as a community and as a region and as we heard from Mr. Alonso, we need
to continue to apply pressure and provide clarity.
Council Member Kou: Thank you so much. So, I totally agree that – I think
one of the first things that we really should be looking at is creating that
baseline for what is our noise – actual noise that we’re experiencing over
here. I attended a San Francisco Round Table meeting as a liaison a couple
of months ago and it really kind of showed how outside we are and a lot of
the noise has been diverted and the flights have been diverted for whatever
reason it is. It was just a little bit eye opening and I think throughout this
time that I’ve been talking to a lot of the citizens and the residents here in
Palo Alto, I hear you. I know noise is a big factor and I’ve been experiencing
myself now with my windows open at night when I go to sleep but I think
the thing that was most apparent to me was when I met a family and the
family was just so beaten down by the noise. Just so distraught and just so
distressed and it was really hard to even talk to them knowing that they are
going through this. I see it tonight here in some of your faces, whether
you’re a neighbor or you’re a resident over here. I see it in all of it so I think
that we really have to come up with some concrete ideas in moving forward
and not to just sit back. I realize that we are all waiting for the FAA to come
back with their Select Committee recommendations but I think that we still
need to keep on pushing and ensure that they are hearing us. That we are
waiting and we can’t just be silent and wait for them to come back when
they are ready to. I do like some of the suggestions, especially the one
about that we need to have experts in this because as a City, we do not
have the experts on our Staff in order to push forth our recommendations. I
would really like to see that we do have the experts and I would really like to
have a legal advice on this to that is in the field. So, they can recommend to
us what we need to put forth. I would like for Staff to also explore reaching
out to Mountain View and the Cities surrounding us to understanding and
recognizing and acknowledging that we’re working on this as a region. So,
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we’re not trying to shift noise to somebody else but we’re asking for
equitable distribution. More so, noise is not just the only factor. There are
also admissions so I think as a responsibility, the FAA also needs to take
that into consideration and measure our – the emissions from the air crafts
that go through our City. You know, I know a lot of you have been using
your apps to complain and you know, what came out at me as the last San
Francisco Round Table meeting was that it seemed to appear at night time,
we don’t have that many flights that go through because there are not that
many complaints but really, I’ve to try to do this at night and it means that I
have to wake up at 12, 1, 1:30, 2:30, in order to go find my phone because
you won’t get me. It’s not right next to me, it’s somewhere else in another
room. I’m not going to get up and get out and go and do a click on my
phone in order to register a complaint. I really make to make sure that San
Francisco under FAA recognize that this is not saying that we don’t have
complaints. We do but it’s just in the middle of the night and we’re just
trying to get back to sleep. You know, I’ll hold off with the rest for now.
Chair Wolbach: Tom?
Council Member DuBois: Yeah, so as many speakers stated, I mean the
noise started several years ago. I think it was 2-years ago that Policy and
Services really started the City’s involvement by recommending that we hire
a consultant and start to analyze the issue. I do believe that we’ve seen a
huge increase in noise with Next Gen. I am sorry to say that we haven’t
seen an improvement yet. I know it’s taking a long time but I do hope that
we are making progress with the Select Committee. Do we have any idea –
have we heard anything about when we expect a response?
Mr. Keene: I think that some of the speakers acknowledge this right off and
I mean I would say that it’s actually the last Packet Page in your Packet;
118. Which is really the – I guess it’s sort of a press release from Congress
Women Eshoo, that the draft FAA report is out internally and as it says, their
notice that the FAA will send their completed document to DOT within a
month for fine review and authorization. Then, when does it come out? I
mean, you know to be honest with you, other people here would know
better than we are on how much of a black box the DOT process is and when
that really means it but I do think it says that we should be getting our
ducks in a row. To be prepared to not only look at but to respond or engage
whatever experts we need to in responding to that report. So, it sounds like
sometime this summer to fall.
Council Member DuBois: Yeah and is Staff recommending that something go
to Council before that report comes out or do we wait?
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Mr. Keene: I don’t want to be precipitate but I did have a couple
recommendations. They were sort of statements of the Staff report a little
bit based on the public comment tonight and if I could just throw those out
to you and I think that they could be useful. Trying to be practical also about
the process issues related to getting to the Council and those sorts of things
so I think that they need to be realistic. A couple of things is one is that I
think the main one is that you should entrust us and if you add to it, to take
the comments that we heard today. I think that they are clearly aligned
enough that we could sort of meld with some of the statements that we put
in the Staff report. Sort of correct and clarify and where appropriate,
reaffirm the Cities positions and our posture towards this goal of minimizing
noise and equability distributing the impacts. I do think that we could get
that to the Council without coming back to the Committee in this time frame.
Then the Council could have the chance to sort of act on that at that
meeting. I would also suggest that we pursue the recommendation of – and
the Council should endorse an assertive and active effort to get a seat on the
SFO Round Table and be – to advocate a push for getting a seat on the AD
HAC Committee, if and when that is formed. Finally, this issue of the noise
monitoring, we’ve certainly have gotten feedback that we could get
temporary noise monitoring. I know that this is something that Council
Member Kou asked us specifically about after one of your recent meetings
at, I think the SFO Round Table. Our sense is the real important thing is to
sort of permanent monitoring definition because it sounds like that’s the only
approach that really directly connects to the FAA or the airport actually
making adjustments based upon the data. I’m sort of outside of my area of
expertise but my sense of that is really saying it. We could get some
temporary monitors but they're – the value of that is diluted in relation to
permanent monitors. I think Mary Jo’s comment were really good in that we
have the data. Let’s make a strong push to advocate that we get the kind of
monitoring that actually feeds into the potential for having recommended
changes if we’ve got, as she said, sixty percent. Then lastly, I think we just
need to share with the Council that we need to be ready for the FAA’s
response and I would say this, that -- and I don’t mean to be disagreeable
about this. I don’t think that more data at the moment is necessary. What’s
necessary is clarifying and aligning our position clearly to realize that this is
a communication and has a campaign aspect and there’s a political element
to this in a big way and that’s why the issues of outreach and collaboration.
Lastly, I would suggest that while we had some degree of inter-jurisdictional
communication and information sharing, the Council is well aware of the
success we had with the North County collation on the Measure B funding of
us actively working together at both the elected and City Manager level of
trying to align our positions as it related to funding. It seems to me that we
should be going to Council and talking directly about how we work closely at
that level and also with the right other jurisdictions because if it’s -- if we’re
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in a fragmented and divide and conquer kind of environment – I’m from
Washington D.C originally. I mean, I grew up in this whole environment.
This is the easiest way to just leave the status quo so we’ve got to make a
shift there I think on that level to ultimately be effective. It’s not just being
smart and just having data in and of itself, I don’t think is going to get us
where we need to go all the way.
Council Member DuBois: The Staff report said that there are some concerns
about noise monitor effectiveness so what are those concerns?
Mr. Keene: I think we can speak to it but I don’t know if this is something
that our friend from SFO can be a little more literate on. I don’t mean to put
him on the spot but…
Chair Wolbach: I’d be happy to hear from the representative from SFO. If
you have anything to add.
Burt Ganoung, SFO Aircraft Noise Abatement Manager: Good Evening. My
name is Burt Ganoung. I am the Aircraft Noise Abatement Manager for San
Francisco Airport. Your question, please?
Council Member DuBois: The question was that the Staff report indicated
that there were some concerns about installing noise monitors. I don’t know
if it was – what are those concerns?
Mr. Ganoung: Well, some of the questions I noted in the Staff report ranged
from noise metrics, all the way to when, how many, what? We did agree
with the Select Committee to preemptive implantation monitoring for them –
for the FAA. Basically, we do the monitoring and then turn the data over to
the FAA and the citizens. As far as the program that we do, we typically – on
areas outside of the noise contour, which is typically the local airport
(inaudible) and that’s what the FAA has mandated our job be. Monitor the
local airport evidence. Well, gosh, with Surfer, it suddenly became 60 odd
miles away; almost 80. We did do a report for them and I brought a couple
of them. I’ll leave them with you so we have both the report, as well as a
frequently asks questions regarding noise monitoring. The – it was a
portable program. We went down there for two weeks which under the State
of California Title 21 Noise Monitoring Standards, is adequate. If you want to
do it for what they call permanent portable, you can go once a quarter. The
same period each time and you lay out the monitor in the same location,
record the data and report it. You can actually come up with an annual CNEL
or Community Noise Equivalent Level and it’s an average noise level. Similar
to the FAA Standard of Day/Night Level or DNL, which is used all over the
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United States. California had to be a little bit different. The typical for the
day time between 7 AM to 7 PM in California is the straight value of the
noise. Between 7 PM and 10 PM, there’s a five-decibel penalty to it and then
at night, there’s a ten-decibel penalty so…
Council Member DuBois: Is that still an average or is that a…
Mr. Ganoung: It is an average but what you’re doing is you’re adding a
plentily because those are the times where people are getting home,
quieting down, getting ready to go to sleep. California added in that evening
component. The day/night level is 7-10 and then 10-7, without the evening
component.
Council Member DuBois: So, it’s averaged over like the entire night, even
though if there are one or two peak flights that are very noisy, they will
average out?
Mr. Ganoung: Well, yes and no. You can also have a loud flight at night that
will drive your noise contour or drive your average up due to the ten-time
penalty to it. As far as the quarterly monitoring which I was speaking about,
if you do it once a quarter in the same location in the same period, then you
do it four times a year. It’s considered to be an average, a CNEL acceptable
to the State of California.
Council Member DuBois: And what’s – is there an advantage to a permanent
monitor versus this sampling?
Mr. Ganoung: They’re costly. Doing a portable program is not near as costly
and I can speak with the director but I believe he would back me on that we
would be willing to do that with the City of Palo Alto. We would have to
again, schedule it and work it into the program to do this.
Council Member DuBois: But what is the benefit of a permanent monitor?
Does it give different numbers?
Mr. Ganoung: No. Well, you may have slightly different numbers and I say
slightly. The period – if we monitored during say Reverse Flow, we’d be
looking at a different time period. We also – as the data comes from SFO, if
it was fed to us, we would be reporting on SFO noise as a primary aircraft
source. Others would be secondary so San Jose, Palo Alto, Oakland airports
would be second noise sources; not the primary. All of our reports focus
typically on primary aircraft noise which is SFO.
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Council Member DuBois: Thanks for answering all these questions. You said
your noise abatement area is right around the airport?
Mr. Ganoung: It typically is. I don’t know if you have seen the San Francisco
airport noise contour. A rough description of it is it’s somewhat of an upside-
down angle, with the head being right there at 101, the wings going out
through the gap towards the west, and then towards Foster City and then
the skirt being over the bay. It’s A-weighted decibel contour. The A-
weighted decibels are what the human ear is – it's calibrated to what the
human ear hears.
Council Member DuBois: But with the concentration over the Menlo Low Way
Point, has there been any discussion about including Way Points as part of
the abatement areas, I guess?
Mr. Ganoung: As far as the abatement area goes, no. It’s the noise contour
right around the airport as opposed mitigated over 15,000 homes nearby. As
far as what noise levels down here are, we have monitored down here as
part of the Oceanic Tailored Arrival Program and the noise levels were below
65 decibels, which is the threshold for mitigation.
Council Member DuBois: Right and so the temporary monitoring, is there a
cost to the City to do that?
Mr. Ganoung: I believe and I can’t speak solely without the airport directors
backing but my belief that definitely on the one time, which we agree to do
for Santa Clara – for Santa Cruz and Palo Alto at the same time many years
ago, we would do it gratis. As far as an ongoing program, we will talk to the
director and see what his recommendations are.
Council Member DuBois: Is there any – last question on the monitoring. Are
there any changes in terms of the types of monitors? I mean they are all
state of the art?
Mr. Ganoung: Yes, we’re actually in process of purchasing new ones right
now but they are state of the art.
Council Member DuBois: Ok, thank you.
Mr. Ganoung: Sure.
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Council Member DuBois: I – you know, so there is a question about are we
going to hit the average threshold and I mean, having data would be good.
I’d be interested and if there is a way for us to capture peak noise as well as
average. The other thing that I really think we should discuss is the pros and
cons of joining the SFO Round Table. You know, we would be one member.
I’m not sure – I certainly think the AD HAC Committee makes sense but I’m
not sure about the Round Table itself. I don’t know if Staff know but I mean,
the SFO Round Table doesn’t really – does it have any actual input into the
FAA itself or is it just about operations around the airport?
Mr. Alaee: They do FAA stuff. They attend the meetings as well as SFO
Round Table – SFO noise abatement stuff as well. Certainly, the FAA gives
more weight to the Round Table than any non-existing group.
Council Member DuBois: But if we formed this new – what’s it called? The Ad
hoc group, I mean would that essentially be an equivalent – more relevant
to us?
Mr. Alaee: I don’t think it would be equivalent – similar to the SFO Round
Table. I think there are rules and statutes that set up round tables for
airports but the Ad hoc Committee proposal by the Select Committee is
different than a permanent ongoing recommendation that the Select
Committee made. There were two recommendations that the Select
Committee made. That secondary one, the perinate recommendation, could
be equivalent to the Round Table based on what the – how the three
congressional representatives from that and in relation with SFO and the
FAA.
Council Member DuBois: Do you guys see any cons to joining the SFO Round
Table?
Mr. Alaee: I mean I think the only con is – well, Congress Women Eshoo
noted too is that we would be the only City from Santa Clara County on the
Round Table and so I think we should just consider that as you peruse
conversations with the Round Table.
Mr. Keene: Well, I think that’s an obstacle but I think your question is more
if we were able to participate, are there cons? My basic thinking is that it’s
better to be inside the tent than outside the tent but the one concern that I
would have is that in the near term, would the Ad hoc Committee, for
example, have more influence or effectiveness in the next stage of the
decision making. Do we diminish our opportunities say to be part of that if
we pursued the SFO Round Table? I have no – I don’t know about that but
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there’s somebody who always says well, gosh, we made an acceptation and
we put you on the SFO Round Table. Now you want to be on AD HAC
Committee. What’s going on? So, I do think that we want to assess what
would be most effective and not diminish our voice.
Council Member DuBois: Yeah, I think that’s part of my concern is if the Ad
hoc Committees the next step, let’s focus on that. I guess I also have a little
bit of a concern that if we’re part of the SFO Round Table we make our
points but we’re also in the minority and then they say well, these are the
decisions of the Round Table and Palo Alto is part of that. Have we kind of
compromised ourselves? I do think we need to wait for the response but I
agree with several of the speakers that say that we need to be ready to take
a more aggressive stance. I think we tried working within the system and
we’ve given it some time. Other Cities like Newport Beach and Phoenix have
sued and gotten changes so I do think that we need to be ready to ramp it
up and kind of depending on which way the recommendations come out. I
think we need to be ready to ramp up the pressure. For myself, I definitely
agree with some of the City Manager’s recommendations that we take some
of these public comments to clarify our position and posture. I think personal
I would recommend that we focus on the Ad hoc Committee for now. I would
like to hear more of an expert opinion on the noise monitoring and maybe
we do an initial monitoring similar to, I guess what Santa Cruz did but
whether – you know, we should have some kind of ongoing program and
what that means for us. Then the last thing I think is really again, to be
working to be prepared to respond to the Select Committee and have some
options and maybe bring those options to Council. (Inaudible) of, if it goes
this way we should do this and if it goes that way, we should do this.
Thanks.
Chair Wolbach: I’ve got a whole lot and comments as well before the
conversation wraps up but Lydia, if you had more that you wanted to add?
Council Member Kou: Just a couple more.
Chair Wolbach: Yeah, please. Absolutely. It’s a conversation so we can go
back and forth.
Council Member Kou: Thanks. I tend to – I wanted to find out from Burt if
possibly, that the San Francisco contour – the San Francisco airport contour,
did it expand as the flight routes expanded further?
Mr. Ganoung: Right now, the noise contour we evaluate it quarterly and it’s
pretty much staying the same. As louder, noisier aircraft are traded out and
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we have more frequent aircraft, there is a balance and that’s what this
average does. It looks at the amount of aircraft, how heavy they are, how
far they are going and it balances the whole thing out. So, right now the
noise contour is pretty much staying where it’s been. Little ebbs and flows
here and there but nothing drastic. We’re looking for 1.5 DB (decibels)
change in the local area, at which point we would need to go back through
and redo our noise contour. Right now, we haven’t seen that. It’s just been
little ebbs and flows but nothing serious. We’ve been analyzing this since
1983 and that was our largest and greatest contour to date and since then it
shrunk.
Council Member Kou: The contour as shrunk?
Mr. Ganoung: Yes, since 1983. Obviously, in 1983 we had the older, louder
stage two aircraft; 747 200, 737 200, 727s, those aircraft don’t operate here
anymore. In fact, United is actually phasing out their 747s by the end of this
year. All those loud aircraft – really loud aircraft are going away. Many
aircraft operators have phased out 747 already in favor of aircraft like the
newer Boeing 787, the triple 7s, and things like that.
Council Member Kou: So, the louder aircraft have gone away. However, the
aircraft used now are flying slightly lower right or a lot lower so doesn’t that
balance out in noise equivalence?
Mr. Ganoung: I’m not going to say a lot lower. Just a little bit lower, yes. In
relation to what we were able to achieve. You have to consider the previous
visual approach altitude was requested at 5,000-feet. Right now, they are
under instrument approach and we’re doing that at approximately 4,000-
feet.
Council Member Kou: I think – yeah, I think that’s why we kind of need the
monitors. In order to kind of really determine that because the way that I
look at it, it doesn’t balance out for me but I really appreciate the
explanation Burt. Thank you so much. You know, I think also for us, we’re
kind of at a – for the City of Palo Alto as well as Mountain View and Los
Altos, we’re kind of at the border of San Mateo and I think being at the
boundary and also – so experiencing San Francisco flow, as well as San Jose
reverse flow, I think we’re kind of in an impact point and I think as these
border Cities, we really need to be included in discussions and in the know
with San Francisco’s Round Table, as well as the Ad hoc when we do have it.
Yes, I can agree with Council Member Tom – DuBois about that we have to
weigh our chances of getting into Ad hoc but I’ve also see the Select
Committee having their members in there – in the San Francisco Round
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Table too. I think it’s a matter of advocacy and also insisting on being on
something or having maybe more of the residences and citizens right into
the Congress folks to get us in there. You know I’m reading this staff report
and the letter that was sent from the San Francisco Round Table on Page 69.
It really does not address Palo Alto what so ever so we need a
representative on these teams over here in order to have our voice heard.
Given this shot on the screen, it’s quite huge, you know where it covers
almost the entire Palo Alto. You know we can pane our windows and
completely insulate our houses but like many of the members said, you can’t
even enjoy your backyard so I don’t think that is something that we can do.
I do agree with some of the recommendations on Page 3 but when I – when
it’s time, if I might add some more for consideration, I would really
appreciate it. Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Absolutely. So, I will add some more of my own thoughts
after having heard from my colleagues and then we’ll go to motions. I do
want to really emphasize that I think it’s really important that we do
communicate with neighboring Cities and collaborate with neighboring Cities.
I forgot to mention early when we were at the table – literally at the table
with senior people who direct air space for the FAA. The Mayor of Menlo Park
was right there with us. Working collaboratively, sharing our message,
supporting each other and I hope that as we continue this discussion, that
we can do the same with Mountain View and with Sunnyvale and who knows
if we are really lucky maybe even Santa Cruz and other cities in the area.
This really is about finding an equitable and fair solution. There clearly has
been a change over the last few years. What we experience here in Palo Alto
and some other communities, not just in our area but around the country,
the experiences have changed for residents around the country as result of
Next Gen. It’s been particularly acute in Palo Alto but we’re certainly not
alone and sharing that experience and sharing our strategy – our political
strategy with our neighbors. As the City Manager mentioned, we’ve worked
very closely with our neighbors on other issues. Such as transportation
funding and we worked very closely with a couple other neighbors on
flooding issues. We do have pretty good working collaborations ongoing for
many years with neighboring cities on many issues and there’s no reason
this can’t be the same. This is why we asked for this meeting to start moving
in that direction because there has been – as I mentioned before, there’s
been kind of this vacuum and there has been some – even organizing --
community organizing in other communities. I have a friend who lives in
Mountain View where somebody knocks on her door and say sign this
petition to oppose what Palo Alto is trying to do and that misrepresented
what Palo Alto is trying to do. That’s happened I heard in a couple different
communities and I think it’s important – I’ve heard even from counterparts
in other Cities that they don’t want to just have Palo Alto’s nimby’s fighting
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their nimby’s and I think that was a really unfortunate depiction of the issue
that we are facing as a region together. Only as a region, as we’ve heard
residents from Palo Alto and Mountain View and the experts and Staff say
that only working collaboratively as a region, can we share our voices and
get the FAA to listen. So, again, the question is how do we do that? Given
the timeline that we’re at, getting a letter to the FAA before they write their
next report is probably not going to happen. They probably have already
done most of it. It’s supposed to be coming out in the next couple of weeks
so I was hoping that we would be able to get that in but now that we – since
we’ve scheduled this meeting, we’ve or at least internally, we’ve tried to get
this on the books and talked about it at our last meeting of this Committee.
We’ve heard that report might be coming to us pretty soon. I don’t think it’s
ever too late to tell our residences to tell neighboring cities and to tell Anna
Eshoo that hears where we stand as a City right now. Here are our priorities,
here are how our priorities work with your priorities and let’s really team up.
I think that’s the goal. I do think that the recommendation that we heard
from some people in the community and also from Staff about – I want to
make sure that I’m not miss representing of what Staff suggested but said
that we should be ready, right? What we can at least do is clarify our
positions. Even if we do send something to the FAA, it might not be
influential in the report that they are working on right now but just say hey
FAA, thanks for listening to us. Thanks for meeting with us in March. We’re
still engaged. You’ve said that you’re going to engage with the community
again. You’re going to do more community engagement after your report.
Here’s a preview of where we stand. It’s not some radical departure from
where we’ve been in the past and that can give them kind of a heads up that
we’re still trying to be at the table with them directly Then when the report
does come out from the FAA, I think that will set us up for continuing
conversations with the FAA. I do think that we should recommend to the
Council really aggressive but – aggressively and in the sense of time
commitment, not in the sense of tone, aggressively reaching out to our
neighboring Cities to collaborate positively. That can be done at the Staff
level, at the Mayor level and possible Council Member level as well because I
think that the competition between Cities really just holds us all back from
effectively advocating to the FAA. On the question of noise monitoring, I am
open to that. I’m still kind of on the fence about what the best way to move
forward with that and on the question of where we should try and get a see
on the table. I think the answer is always. Always try to have a seat at the
table. You can be on multiple Committees but the City Manager’s point is
noted that essentially, we might – we don’t want to blow our political capital
trying to get on the SFO Round Table and then when an Ad hoc or
permanent Committee is created, have SFO say well, we put you on the
Round Table so we don’t want to put you on this new one. I think we should
be thoughtful about that. Maybe the way to approach that is to say look, we
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want to be on the Round Table because we don’t know if these other
Committees are going to be created. It’s a recommendation but that doesn’t
mean they will happen. We don’t know when they are going to happen. We
can say look, we want to be on those future Committees but in the
meantime, we think we deserve a spot on the SFO Round Table. Whether it’s
the Ad hoc Committee, the permanent entity, which is incredibly vague or as
it’s also been discussed Reverse Flow into AJC discussion. That’s another
place where we should try to have a seat at the table but again, I think
doing the outreach now – so going to City Council, having City Council
authorize the City Manager to do that outreach and the Mayor to do that
outreach to neighboring Cities now, will really help us set that up. We don’t
want to end up where FAA report comes out and then we’re scrambling to
figure out what to do. I think that’s kind of – that’s where we should really
focus is getting ready for that FAA report and the way to do that is to get
City Staff, City Council, our residences and neighboring Cities all on the
same page as much as possible. I don’t know if either of my colleagues
wanted to take a hand at starting a motion. I’m sure we might have a couple
amendments or changes. Anyone want to give it a shot?
Mr. Keene: Mr. Chair, if I might make a request to the Committee is perhaps
the motion formation could be a little more informal than it is when we are
with the large body of the Council. I think the important thing is that we get
the general directive so that we can get a Staff report back on the Council’s
agenda before you go on break and knowing that you will, at the Council
meeting, make some refinements and corrections anyway.
Chair Wolbach: I think that’s reasonable and acceptable but I’ll…
Council Member DuBois: So, I guess I’ll – I kind of outlined my Motion
already but I’ll just restate it, which would be for Staff to take public
comments tonight to clarify the City’s position and posture. Second, to
recommend that Council endorses and advocate for a seat on the Ad hoc
Committee and any perinate entity actions that will impact Palo Alto and
communicate that interest to Representative Eshoo. The third one would be
to get an expert opinion on the noise monitoring strategy and make a
recommendation to Council. The fourth one would probably be some
discussion but I would say reach out to Portola Valley, Woodside, Menlo
Park, Mountain View and Los Altos about a regional position through the City
Managers and elected officials. Then the last point would be prepared to
respond to the Select Committee report.
MOTION: Council Member DuBois moved, seconded by Chair Wolbach to
recommend the following:
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A. Staff take the comments made tonight into account and reaffirm the
City’s positions to reduce aircraft noise over the skies of Palo Alto; and
B. Endorse and advocate a seat on the Select Committee's proposed Ad-
Hoc Committee, SFO’s Community Roundtable and any new
permanent entity created to address aircraft noise and communicate
that interest to; and
C. Get an expert opinion on aircraft noise and retain an attorney that
specializes in aviation; and
D. Reach out to neighboring communities on a regional position; and
E. Be prepared to respond to the FAA report in the form of legal or
professional representation; and
F. Focus on minimizing noise, the equitable dispersion of noise and
improved technology and methods for reducing noise; and
G. Ask FAA to consider emissions from aircraft
Chair Wolbach: I’ll second that. Would you – first thing off the top of my
head before I forget but would you be willing to add Sunnyvale and East
Palo Alto that list of cities and then leave it open ended if there are other
cities.
Council Member DuBois: Yeah, I guess we could leave it open for Staff but
the point is not to be too broad and you know, the ones really impacted by
the Menlo Way Point I think are the ones that we want to include.
Chair Wolbach: The reason why I mentioned those two is that we have a
very close relationship with East Palo Alto and also, I think that the local
diplomacy with Sunnyvale is going to be really critical because I think that’s
where a lot of the tension may exist right now. So, the outreach there is
going to be really important in order to come to a regional consensus.
Council Member DuBois: Why don’t we just say that Staff will come back
with a list of cities.
Mr. Keene: So, I’m very supportive of the Motion with one disqualification
that really deals with the anticipation of the FAA report. (Inaudible) say one
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that might be a little bit complicated for us to figure out and two, it might
not be in our best interest to articulate in advance what – I mean, I just
think we just need to think about that.
Council Member DuBois: So, just to clarify. I think what I mean by being
prepared to respond is if we need to hire any consultants…
Mr. Keene: Ok, thank you. Alright.
Council Member DuBois: …or things, have those lined up.
Mr. Keene: Ok, thank you. That’s fine.
Chair Wolbach: I had a couple more thoughts as well but Lydia, if you would
like to – I’ll differ to you first.
Council Member Kou: Thank you. If I might also add that we do want to put
on the motion that we have – we engage some aviation consultant expert,
as well as a – retain an attorney that specializes in aviation. So, we would
need to have a budget line item in there since I think it was very appropriate
when the City Manager said that we’re not here with knowing how to…
Council Member DuBois: Do we already have those? Do we have an existing
contract?
Mr. Alaee: We do still have an existing contract with our consultants for
ATAG & Associates. There’s money left in that contract and we could
repurpose those funds as well to bring on another small contract if we
wanted a different noise consultant. Then we would need to look at the legal
outside Council.
Mr. Keene: (Inaudible)
Mr. Alaee: We do have a contract with Peter [Kursh] as well.
Council Member Kou: You do?
Mr. Alaee: Yeah.
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Council Member Kou: Super, thank you. I lost my train of thought. That was
very exciting news so thank you so much. Let me see here. I think that was
my main point. Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: I guess I am open to whether it needs to go into the Motion
in an official way but I did want to clarify a couple of things that I think we
should emphasize as priorities, right? I think it was stated by the City
Manager earlier, stated by community members from both Palo Alto and
Mountain View and our resident expert from Stanford that we should really
focus on minimizing noise, equitable dispersion of noise, improving
technology and fly methods to minimize the noise in general because this
will have a benefit, not just of Palo Alto but for other cities in the region.
Then in particular, that we’ll be looking for those priorities to be highlighted
in the FAA report and if they are not, we’ll be ready to say here’s what we
think was underplayed or missed in the FAA’s report. As well as things like
creating an Ad hoc and/or an ongoing entity, recognizing that on the ground
noise matters, even if it’s outside of the immediate vicinity of an airport.
Clarifying that noise is a concern under 7,000-feet but that over 7,000-feet
or at whatever – have some objective standard. At what elevation or –
combined with what flight methods does noise become a problem so that we
can – rather than rely on opinion, we can have some objective standard. We
can say at this altitude, this kind of airplane hitting its air brakes is going to
create a noise impact because that’s not, in my understanding, something
the FAA really has as clear standards right now outside of the immediate
vicinity of an airport. I think we should also clarify that night is from 10 PM
to 7 AM. We should encourage the FAA to define noise shifting and I do think
that we should encourage the FAA to study – so that we can have an
objective third party analysis because they have been controversial, of
alternative Way Points such as Faith or DUMBA. So, we can have clarity
about what the impacts would be. I don’t know if all those things need to be
in the motion but I think they’ve been heard by City Staff. City Staff has
received verbal and written comments from the public and I know you are
looking at those. So, I guess – I think that it was in the motion – let me just
double check Tom, that you had in the motion to incorporate public input
received in writing and verbally this evening and ongoing communication
with resident experts and our consultants as we develop this before it comes
back to Council. I would also add, of course, weighing in with your –
checking in with our lobbyist in Washington D.C as well.
Mr. Keene: Alright, that’s enough. Our agenda is packed to the end of June.
It’s going to be a shoe horn to get this in there and I’m sure you’ll discuss
this for a while at the Council meeting itself.
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Chair Wolbach: I think so and Lydia, I wanted to hear what else that you
wanted to say.
Council Member Kou: I just wanted to add in one more thing which I had
lost a thought on. Emissions, the particulates, can we add that into it for FAA
to consider along with the noise. What are the emissions that come out from
flights going overhead? Also, I know we still have that contract with Fray Tag
but is there any way to also consult with the Portola Valley person or the
Portola Valley’s consultant as well? Just so that we’re all talking together. All
the consultants are consulting and coming up with the correct thing to push
forth. Thank you so much.
Chair Wolbach: I actually just want to mention about the particulate matter.
This is something that I am actually really, really, concerned about but I’m
also sensitive to how we message that and here’s my concern. My concern is
that if we’re not careful about how we message that, we could be accused of
moving the goal posts or mission drift or some other metaphorical dismissal,
right? I don’t want the FAA – when they hear from us each time to say oh,
Palo Alto’s got some other new thing and then roll their eyes at us. I want to
make sure that as we raise additional issues, that we can be clear that this is
a separate issue. There is a nexus because it does relate to flight paths and
it does relate to how much fuel burn that you are doing and things like that
but I do want to make sure that we’re careful to say that this a distinct issue
from airplane noise. Anything else to add on to the Christmas tree? Ok, I
think that’s pretty good direction for Staff and we’ll look forward to it coming
to Council.
Mr. Keene: Did you vote on that?
Chair Wolbach: And let’s take a vote, that’s right. All in favor of the Motion?
Alright, it’s unanimous and I just want to thank Staff. Thank also Burt from
SFO coming to provide that clarity and everybody else who’s come to speak
for Palo Alto or neighboring communities. Your input was heard. Alright, well
take a 3-5-minute break while people who were involved in this filter out
and we’ll reset Staff.
MOTION PASSED: 3-0 Kniss absent
The Committee took a break from 8:09 P.M. to 8:18 P.M.
2. Staff and Utilities Advisory Commission Recommendation That the
Policy and Services Committee Make a Recommendation That Council
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Recommend: (1) Option 2 for the Municipal Fiber-to-the-Node Network
(FTTN) for Fiber and Broadband Expansion; and (2) Expand Wi-Fi to
Unserved City Facilities and Discontinue Consideration of City-Provided
Wi-Fi in Commercial Areas
Chair Wolbach: …which is Item 2 of the evening, Staff and Utilities Advisory
Commission recommendation that the Policy and Services Committee make
a recommendation that Council recommend option two for the municipal
Fiber-To-The-Node Network (FTTN) for fiber and broadband expansion and
expand Wi-Fi to unserved City facilities and discontinue consideration of
City-provided Wi-Fi in commercial areas. I’ll kick it off over to the City
Manager to take it from here.
James Keene, City Manager: Thank you Mr. Chairman and Committee
Members. I would implore that I really hope we could do this in an hour. I
don’t think it’s actually it's – one, all that complicated the options and two
we are not going to be able to get to Council until after the break on the
recommendations from the Committee here. Three, this is not time sensitive
in a crucial way but I would just say that only in a sense that one, I know
there’s a lot of interest on the Council. Two, I think it is fast to say that
we’ve been discussing this actually, even longer than we’ve been working on
the Comp. Plan update but not quite as long as we have been talking about
what to do about the Public Safety Building. Actually, on both of those other
things, we actually – the Council has made decisions and we’re nearing the
end of the Comp. Plan and we have a way forward on the Public Safety
Buildings. So, we’re hoping tonight the Committee can help move us ahead
in a positive way. So, with that, Jonathan, you guys want to…
Jonathan Reichental, Chief Information Officer: We’re ready. We’re good.
Yes, thank you City Manager, Jim Keene. It’s great to be here Chair Wolbach
and Council Members. I’m Jonathan Reichental, the City’s Chief Information
Officer and we’re going to start off with just a few updates to bring you up to
speed on some of the thing we’ve been sharing with you over the last couple
of years. Including some perspective on some emerging tech that I think is
very important in the context of this larger discussion. I want to – just a few
points on the vendor space. We have AT&T announced last year as you
know, that they were going to bring their gigabit service to Palo Alto called
AT&T Fiber and as far as we know, they still are committed to doing that. I
attempted to reach out to them in the last few days but I was not able to get
an update of this week but as of my last update just a month or two ago,
they were still in the planning phase to begin an initial roll out in Palo Alto
and then more broader later on. We heard from Comcast that they still
intend to come to Palo Alto with their upgrade – their box upgrade – their
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technology upgrade on their existing system to bring gigabit to – at Comcast
offering. As you know, they enabled this through a new version of a
particular technology called Docsis 3.1. Not terribly important but that’s the
jus the technology they used to enable it. When we last met with them just
a couple months back, they notified us that they would do a soft launch in
Palo Alto in 2017 and then later on a more formal, highly marketed
implementation. Ok, so I did have a piece that I was just going to read that
I did share with the – with our Community Advisory Committee and with the
UAC prior to this because I think there’s some developments that are
contextually important. I consider one of my most important roles to be an
advisory to the Council and the City Manager, even if it’s unpopular so I am
going to do one of those today. It’s worth noting that even in the short time
that I’ve been involved in this project, how much the landscape has
changed. Just in about 3-years, -- just three years ago, there was no AT&T
fiber, no DOCSIS 3.1, no Google fiber to the extent that it is today. No
Facebook, Terragraph, no Millimeter Wave, and no 5G and all of those things
are just a set of new technologies and new considerations that are on the list
that weren’t there before. It’s becoming very clear now to me that as we
look out at the future and we see developments, that the future is going to
be wireless intensive. Now, when I say that, I know people are ready to
really push back strongly on it. By say that the future is wireless, that
doesn’t discount the enormous importance of fiber backbone. In fact, as we
move more towards a wireless world, we will require more fiber to bring the
information back to the providers of the data centers around the world. Just
to give you a sense of this and I kind of want to talk you through it. In the
United States in 2013, one in ten households were exclusively wireless
connected to the internet for their access. In 2016, that had increased to
one in five, effectively twenty percent of US households are now mobile-only
access to the internet. In 3-years, the number doubled. Part of those
numbers are definitely people with lower income because it’s cheaper to
have mobile access but the most current data shows that the speed of
dropping wired for wireless axis from home is now equivalent in all income
ranges. Why is the future wireless, because whether it’s smart homes, smart
Cities, wearable technology, connected cars, self-driving cars, the internet of
things or even next generation health care, it will all be powered by wireless
technology. In fact, there is now a fifth generation of cellular technology,
which is called 5G for fifth generation, that we see beginning to emerge as a
specification and we think by 2020 it will be in the mainstream. Now that
sounds like a long time ago but it’s just a couple of years. There is lots of
experimentation happening. When we talk about 5G, we’re not just talking
about cellular phones or smartphones that have fast connectivity. We’re
actually saying fixed wireless, which is 5G connectivity from your home and
so this is how people have the potential to connect to the internet. That’s the
strategy that the big (inaudible) will be taking. I’ll give you a sense of the
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speed, 5G – excuse me, 4G LTE, which is typically what a lot of us use on
our smartphones, that’s approximately about a 5 to 12-megabit download, 2
to 5-megabit upload. To put that in comparison, the International Telecom
Union has specified or suggested the final specifications for 5G. At a
minimum, it should be 20 gigabits for download, peak data rate and 10
gigabits uplink. I am going to do the math for you so if you round 4G to an
average of 10 megabits, 5G is going to be 2,000 times faster. The average
US broadband in the US today to the average home is 50 megabits – 50
megabits is the average, 5G will be 400 times the current speed. When I
was in Dubai last year, [phonetic] [Etiy Salat], who is the local telecom
company, they experimented with 5G and they reach 36 gigabits – excuse
me, 36 gigabits per second. That’s very, very fast; very fast. Ok. What is
required for this? There is going to a lot of City construction. All Cities that
adopt this will need put in a lot more cells towers than we have today and
just cell units; small cells. They would have to be at high volume density.
Just to give you a sense of the space, Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile are in
current tests. Of course, as you know from my last update, Google is looking
at a wireless solution that uses similar technology, 5G, to bring fiber to the
home or fiber to the neighborhood and then to the home. Verizon has a 5G
fixed wireless technology test in eleven geographies and different
environments in the US and they want to launch something in 2018, which is
next year. Just a couple other tidbits on this. AT&T is experimenting in
Houston and Indianapolis with 5G and Terrone in Italy has committed to
being one hundred percent 5G in the entire City by 2020. In this year’s
Mobile World Congress, which is the big telecom event. The entire event was
about 5G. Big players like Qualcomm, Erickson, Intel, Nokia, and other
mobile leaders are all betting their future on it. That was just a contextual
item and that’s an emerging technology that we anticipate or I certainly
anticipate will be a very significant player here in just a few years. Two more
items just real quick? We wanted to make you aware that one of the items
that was on the Council list of action items was to get a – to build out a
network for our public safety professional and that’s going to hit the streets
– it’s scheduled to be on the streets this week. So, a lot of good work went
into that and we should be getting responses to that pretty soon for being
able to come back and ask for – to get a decision from Council on whether
we should pursue that. One other item that I just wanted to share just to
put things in context. There are – there is quite a lot of activity in the region
around high-speed internet. I want to just mention that San Jose and San
Francisco, so in San Jose, the Mayor did sponsor – is sponsoring a project
that price word (inaudible) or PDBC’s is doing to develop a broadband and
digital inclusion vision for the City. That’s just really kicked off and will take
many months to see where that goes. Then in San Francisco there is – the
Mayor also of San Francisco spun up an Advisory Council made up of
industry experts and academics to explore high-speed internet for all of San
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Francisco. We should be seeing a series of reports over the next few months.
A report of last year on a potential cause came in at little over a billion
dollars to build fiber to the home network in San Francisco and it would
operate at a deficit. Their conclusion was some sort of partnership to get
there. In both San Jose and San Francisco examples, much of the focus is on
people who just don’t have internet. There still is large population –
thousands of people who don’t have any type of access and the there’s also
a group of people who have only access to very slower, bad internet. That
concludes my update so I am now going to now, I think – yeah, I’ll – we
don’t need to spend time on this. Today we will be presenting you with Staff
and the UAC is making recommendations to you to recommend to Council
three potential pathways around the question of fiber. Then we will have a
recommendation around the two wireless items that we’ve been carrying for
a few months to come back to you and make a recommendation. Jim
Fleming is going to talk us through the different options.
Jim Fleming, Senior Management Analyst: Chair Wolbach and Council
Members, my name is Jim Fleming and I am a Senior Management Analyst
with Palo Alto Utilities Department. As Jonathan said, tonight we are going to
review the three options for fiber and wireless expansions as described in
the Staff report. Option one is to explore potential funding models to build a
municipally owned ubiquitous fiber to the premises network based on an
open axis model. To prove some background, the 2015 fiber to the premises
Master Plan indicated that assuming the network achieved the seventy-two
percent take rate required to positively cash flow the enterprise, the City will
require an estimated overall capital investment of approximately $78 million
dollars to build and operate a City-wide fiber to the premises network. Take
rate is defined as the number of home or businesses that actually use the
network. The Master Plan also stated that if approximately $20 million
dollars from the fiber optic fund resource was used to help finance the
network, then the take rate required would be about fifty-seven percent.
Annual operations and maintenance cost would be about $8 million dollars.
The City’s key objectives for network ownership include ubiquitous cover,
local authority and open access and open access network or model is defined
as an arrangement in which a network is owned by the City but would be
open to multiple internet service providers to offer gigabit-speed broadband
and other services. In terms of potential funding models, a key consideration
for network for implementation is how to fund both capital construction cost
and ongoing operational expenses. Acknowledging that capital and operating
costs associated with full scale City-wide build out would be significant. The
City will likely have to seek outside funding and/or internally subsidies to
support construction and the fiber to the premises network startup costs.
Potential financing models include bond issues instances such as general
obligation of revenue bonds, use of the fiber optic fund reserve and ongoing
internal subsidies. At this point we are going to discuss fiber to the node,
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which is Option Number 2. Fiber to the Node is a municipally owned network
that can provide infrastructure to neighborhoods for private last mile
connections to provision services to homes and businesses. Fiber to the node
would be an incremental step to fiber to the premises. The recommended
action item for option two is to develop a business case for a fiber to the
node network to prove a platform for public safety and utilities wireless
communication in the field, smart grid and Smart City applications and new
dark fiber licensing opportunities. The business case would determine the
benefits to the City and also quantify the return on investment. This option
also includes a recommendation to engage an engineering consultant to
prepare a preliminary design of the City-wide fiber to the premises network.
In addition to identifying potential partners and/or service providers and last
mile funding models. The estimated one-time fiber to the node costs are in
the range of $12 to $15 million dollars but on-going operation of
maintenance costs are unknown at this time. In regard to business case
development, a number of approaches can be considered as Staff requests
the Committee’s feedback on next steps. Preliminarily, Staff would
recommend with proceeding with the following four steps if Council directs
proceedings with option two. The first step is to engage an engineering
consultant to initiate a preliminary design for fiber to the premises and fiber
to the node. This design will need to make certain assumption driven by
business case models, public and private partnership opportunities and
potential technologies for last mile service delivery. The components of
developing a fiber to the premises network design includes identifying the
types of services, which would be carried over the network and cost
estimates for the geographic layout of fiber routes, an outside plant,
neighborhood nodes and integration of electronic transmission equipment.
Upon competition of the design and confirmation of the business model, the
consultants scope of services will be structured to enable full City-wide fiber
to the premises design but with the expectation that authorization for
proceed will occur in phases based on cost estimation, community interest,
and /or partnership agreements before incremental last mile development.
The second step involves utility Staff developing a public outreach project to
solicit neighborhood interest and participating and verifying the business
case for fiber to the premises. Residents will be advised that as envisioned,
the City would fund extinction of the fiber network to the neighborhood with
the understanding that residents may be responsible for some or all of the
costs to reach individual homes. An upfront cost estimate per home would
be communicated with cost estimated to be refined as the evaluation
proceeds. Residents will also advise that decisions have not been made
regarding service providers. Also, depending on the level of interest
expressed, a handful of neighborhoods may be selected to proceed with
primarily network design. The third step involved IT Staff exploring market
place interest in two ways. The first is establishing the level of interest in
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financial participation of the last mile build out and second is the level of
interest in providing gigabit service to neighborhood residents. Participation
in both these efforts could be described as integrated or separable levels of
involvement. The fourth step and this would be subject to positive responses
to the first three steps, Staff would engage community stakeholders and
identify priority characteristics of prospective service providers. Topic would
likely include characteristics such as services to be provided, customer
service expectations and policies on issues such as data privacy. Potential
funding models for last mile include user financing. User financing is an
approach that relies on homeowners to pay on voluntary basis for some or
all the cost to build out the Cities existing nerve fiber backbone network into
residential neighborhoods. Homeowners and businesses would voluntarily
finance system build up across by paying a onetime upfront connection fee
that can range from several hundred dollars to several thousand dollars.
Another potential funding model is the creation of an assessment district
which may be used to finance new public improvements or other additions to
the community. Generally speaking, an assessment district is formed with
property owner ballot – excuse me, with property owner mail ballot
proceedings involving each property that will be assessed in the district.
Owners vote yes or no and are waited by the assessed. It’s important to
note that under the Mello Rouse Community Facilities Act of 1982, City and
other local government agencies can form a community facilities district to
finance certain facilities and services. These districts can level a special tax
and issue bonds secured by that tax upon approval by two-thirds of the
registered voters or property owners within the district. Another last mile
approach is to explore the potential for a public-private partnership with a
City and a private entity that would work together to achieve mutual goals
for a fiber to the premises network. Option three is to pause municipal fiber
to the premises development efforts and increase transparency and
predictability for the third-party providers for their network expansions. In
light of the anticipated up (inaudible) play as Jonathan referred to a few
moments ago, the cable and telecom (inaudible) as another option is
pausing any further municipal fiber to the premises development at this
time. As previously noted, obtaining sufficient market share and acquiring
new customers as necessary to financially sustain a City fiber to the
premises offering. This would be a major challenge under present market
conditions. In the interest of improving broadband in Palo Alto, the City
would identify resources and improve coordination of City policies and
processes to facilitate that work upgrade by the incumbency and other
independent internet service providers. To that end, the objective of this
recommendation is to enhance transparency and predictability, excuse me,
for a third-party provider. Axis by third party providers to infrastructure data
and assets such as poles, conduits and public rights-of-ways is essential to
encouraging broadband improvements. Ensure efficient and predictable
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processes that enhance deployment is equally important as with any public
project. In order to implement this strategy, Staff will need to identify
additional internal and/or external resources to better facilitate planning
approval, environmental reviews, permitting inspections and legal reviews.
It’s important to note that the work to identify these resources and the
associated agreements were well under way when Staff was working Google
fiber from 2014-2016, to manage the anticipated large volume of activities
to build their fiber network in Palo Alto. We’re going to move along to
wireless recommendations. There are two Staff recommendations for
wireless. The first recommendation is to expand wi-fi to unserved City
facilities. The expansions of wi-fi technology at unserved City facilities and
public areas was evaluated with the Community Services Department. Most
City facilities already have wi-fi access. The plan is to expand that coverage
to common areas in the Cubberley Community Center, Lucie Stern, the golf
course pro shop and café and Lytton Plaza. A high-level cost estimate for the
recommended sites is $165,000 for installation and approximately $6,200
for month recurring charges. Funding for this project is recommended to
come out of the fiber fund and the monthly recurring charges would be
allocated to the respected departments consistent with the City’s existing
chargeback model. The second wireless recommendation is to discontinue
consideration of City Wi-Fi in commercial areas. There are already
widespread commercial wi-fi coverage in high traffic commercial areas and
there is a lack of demand for City branded wi-fi serves. To recap in terms of
the recommendation, Staff and the Utilities Advisory Commission
recommendations are as follows. For fiber optic expansions, Staff and the
UAC recommend option two, which includes developing a fiber to the node
business case, engaging a consulting firm for fiber to the node and fiber to
the premises design and identifying potential partners and last mile funding
models. For wireless, Staff recommends expanding wi-fi to unserved City
facilities including the golf course cafe and the pro shop. The UAC did not
recommend expansions to the golf course facilities but Staff is
recommending that. Also, again, to discontinue consideration of commercial
wi-fi in high traffic areas such as University Ave. and California Ave. That
concludes my remarks and presentation.
Chair Wolbach: Thank you, Staff and I just want to confirm with the City
Clerk that we have not yet received any public comment cards. If there are
any members of the public that would like to speak to this item, turn your
cards in right away. It looks like we do not. Alright, I’ll turn it my colleagues
for any questions, comments, motions. Go for it and I told the City Manager
that we would try to be out of here by 9 o’clock for Staff.
Council Member DuBois: Hopefully we have more than 15-minutes.
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Chair Wolbach: If we need to go slightly over for important questions, I’m
sure that’s fine.
Council Member DuBois: It’s been a while since we have seen you guys.
Thanks for coming back. If I understood in terms of competitive landscape,
we’re still -- AT&T and Comcast are still in the planning stages.
Mr. Reichental: That’s correct.
Council Member DuBois: Is the intent with the fiber to the Node option to
make it attractive to private companies to offer service and lease the fiber
from us?
Mr. Reichental: I’ll just introduce is and maybe Jim can add to it. Part of it is
– to kind of go a little higher level, we definitely want to support the
different business cases before we make the financial commitment to it and
that’s what we are proposing. One of them certainly would be that if the City
builds it out right to the neighborhood, that a partner would be incentivized
to bring it to the last mile. If could be any combination of a third party
coming in and owning it completely depending on the customer. Interest to
the City to continuing to partner on that piece, including looking for other
funding models but certainly I think it’s – we would highly recommend
exploring it with a range of potential participants.
Council Member DuBois: You talked about that we’re potentially facing a lot
of microcell construction. I just wondered if one of the goals of the fiber to
the node is to make it available to multiple providers so that, again, when
people are putting up say cell antennas, they would just lease the fiber from
us. Is that a design goal for the network? Not to just reach homes but…
Mr. Reichental: That’s a great question for Jim.
Mr. Fleming: That would be. One of the cornerstones of the fiber to the Node
concept is to push more fiber out into the community and in parallel with
that, you’ll have the wireless carriers like Verizon and AT&T Mobility and
others building more small cells closer to residential areas. Those small cells
will need fiber for a backhaul in their networks. That is one possibility in
terms of fiber expansion. Whether they would be interested in licensing that
dark fiber from the City is to be determined.
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Council Member DuBois: I would say that we should think of that as a goal
to design an attractive network and to have multiple kinds of uses. Why is it
hard to estimate the operating or maintenance cost for FTTN at a high level?
Mr. Fleming: It would really be based on the business model and what is the
network going to serve if it was built and the use of it was for public safety,
utilities, communications in the field, smart grid and Smart City applications,
and licensing fiber for backhaul purposes to the wireless carriers. The
maintenance cost would be different as opposed to if the network did attract
a last mile provider that would build out to the home. It’s really difficult to
estimate what the annual operating costs would be. Apart of the business
case would include trying to determine what that number is. We just don’t
have enough information at this point.
Council Member DuBois: Ok. I mean I guess I’m picturing it as an extension
of that dark fiber network and if we treated it that way. Where the City was
managing kind of the infrastructure on a physical level, could we at least
estimate in terms of kind of looking at maintenance cost for our dark fiber
network? This would just be more and more miles of fiber that would have
similar costs.
Mr. Fleming: The maintenance of just a pure dark fiber network is fairly low.
Again, it would what’s actually going to be delivered over that network and if
it went beyond just licensing dark fiber – with dark fiber, we are essentially
just providing a pipe, so to speak, to a user.
Council Member DuBois: So, you’re saying that we may – again, I kind of
thought that was the proposal here. That a private company would take on
expenses beyond that but you’re saying that we might consider other
business models that incur other expenses beyond just the dark fiber.
Mr. Fleming: Yes.
Council Member DuBois: Ok. When you talk about a consultant, are you
envisioning a person or like a network management firm?
Mr. Fleming: I’m sorry I missed your question.
Council Member DuBois: When you are talking about hiring a consultant to
work on the business case, are we talking about a company that specializes
in this or are we thinking of an individual?
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Ed Shikada, General Manager of Utilities: Thank you Chair and Members of
the Committee. Ed Shikada wearing my Utilities General Manager hat here.
Our Staff discussion really hasn’t gotten that specific as to how the business
case would be developed and who would be responsible for it. The
recommendation, I think you’ve got at this point really are focused on the
step of hiring the design consultant as one of the keys next procurements
that we would do since that would conceivably be a pretty significant design
effort.
Council Member DuBois: Yeah, the reason I ask is that I would be interested
in kind of a one-stop shop. If we could find one that could do design and
then consult us on the build out and not just be an individual that does one
piece and then goes away.
Mr. Shikada: Good point. As we have flushed out the dimensions of moving
forward with option two. It’s clear that it will be a multi-disciplinary effort
include both the design. The business case evaluation, as you pointed you,
as well as the community outreach to identify the neighborhood interest in
pursuing the various approaches that have been discussed. As well as
Jonathan had pointed out, the touch points with the industry to see what
would be viable there. So, yeah, it really does call for multi-disciplinary
approach and to the extent that we can get an individual that can manage
that for us. That would really help simplify the effort of bringing it back
together.
Council Member DuBois: I just wanted to understand that reading the report
and you mentioned it to, let’s talk about a user financing model and
potentially communicating that fairly early to residents. What is the thinking
in terms of talking about potential prices before we identify a partner or
business model? I was just trying to understand why we would even through
that out to the public? You might pay $5,000 for some undefined service.
Mr. Shikada: Good point and it is clearly one that we’ve had some debate
about. You know, how – and I use the term an iterative approach in that we
need to gauge interest among neighbors. Ultimately, if we were to go with
that assessment district approach as Jim pointed out, it requires a two-third
vote, which is effectively very similar to the market take rate that had been
discussed previously. In some way, it would be taking a step toward
assessing whether there’s that level of interest among residents. How to
best gage that? There’s been ideas of everything from the website that
allows people to just express interest without any indication of potential
cost, to doing some time of upfront costing so that we don’t head down a
path of soliciting a lot of interest up front but only to have residents say
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well, if you had told us it was going be thousands as opposed to hundreds. I
wouldn’t have said yes and so it’s that balancing act.
Council Member DuBois: Right so that’s why I think the type of consultant –
if we could find somebody who is managed to kind of design community
outreach and the whole business plan pieces; a consulting organization. I
think that might be really useful. I mean it seems similar to other kinds of
infrastructure project with the community.
Mr. Shikada: I dare say that no one can do it as well as Palo Alto quite
frankly. I’m not sure that corporate world has done a whole lot more
successfully than we have when it comes to this kind of outreach.
Council Member DuBois: Well, ok.
Mr. Shikada: Google fiber being a perfect example of it quite frankly.
Council Member DuBois: I think cities have hired communication experts.
I’ve been talking to City Supervisor Mark Farrell in San Francisco and they
budgeted like 5 million dollars just for the communication piece. Knowing
that AT&T and Comcast are going to have a reaction. They are really
thinking about communicating the user benefits up front so that it’s really
clear why somebody would want this. I just think we need to think about it
and be careful about how we ask questions. I also just think – I mean I think
the fiber to the node approach is interesting. I think we need to be really
clear on what our goals are and what we are trying to accomplish. You
know, if part of it’s going to be used for smart grid, part of it could be used
for small cell antennas and part of it could be used for home service. I mean
we really have multiple funding sources here and multiple customers. I think
that’s going to drive the design of the network and I’d be really interested
in, when it comes to Council, maybe seeing a little more detail. Again, I
know this is early but just estimating how many homes would be passed?
We talk about last mile but are we talking about going down residential
streets where it’s really the last 50-feet or are we literally talking about
going by 1,000 homes and the home is a mile away? I think it would be
useful to understand that and that might make it more or less attractive to
some of these other potential customers. Again, I think we should really
articulate measurable goals and I guess kind of sooner rather than later too
– I know it’s kind of the point of a business plan but understand if any –
what kind of partners might be interested in working with us because I think
they would – depending – they might want to get involved in the actual
design as well. The other thing is that we have some cost estimates but we
have no revenue estimates. I think it would be really useful if there was
more of an ROI indication when it comes to Council. I mean $70 million
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dollars sounds like a lot of money but if it had a great return, great, right?
I’m not saying that’s the one but I’m just saying that without any indication
of what the return is, it’s really hard to evaluate. It would be good to see if
there’s an expected contribution from the Utilities Department or the utility
funds if we do use this for smart grid. I think that would help, again, with
the funding. I am glad to see kind of the discussion shift away from just
wireless versus fiber to kind of how they work together. There was a little bit
of talk about a pilot and I would just say that my initial reaction was that I
don’t really want to see us do another pilot. We’ve done pilots in the past
and I think it would be better – it would be – the question is what are we
trying to learn? I would much rather seek some kind of roll out plan with
maybe an opportunity to stop the roll out if things are going wrong but not
do a pilot; analysis – kind of stop an analysis it and then restart again. I was
wondering – we did approve money for consultants a couple years ago. Is
that money still allocated or does it have to be reallocated?
Mr. Reichental: I think – my understanding is that you still have the ability
to use it.
Council Member DuBois: Good, ok. Then I would really like to see a deeper
understanding of what other Cities are doing. I think all the Cities that were
waiting on Google are now scrambling to come up with their own plans. It
seems like a really good opportunity to share knowledge and share funding
models. I mean, San Francisco is shifting to a model that is not dependent
on take rate. They are really shifting to kind of a franchise model, where the
[SEALUC] would pick up some of that risk, I guess. I’d be interested, again,
in understanding if some kind of franchise license model would work for us.
Closer to kind of a dark fiber model and then again, if we are going that
direction, I don’t see any reason to ask residents to pay thousands of
dollars. It would be really -- it would be more of a partnering strategy. I
guess the other thing that I would say about San Francisco and San Jose is
that San Francisco had some high-cost estimates. They passed some laws to
drive the cost down. They passed a micro trenching law and they passed
multi-family access law. We keep talking about cost but it would be really
useful to understand what impact we would have on our cost if we changed
our rules a little bit. Should we consider a micro-trenching ordinance? If that
cuts the cost in half, then maybe it’s something that we need to look at
more seriously. I think publicly San Francisco is talking about people without
internet access but honestly, I think they are really interested in high
quality, kind of world class fiber and they are using that as part of the
message but it’s really about getting everybody high-quality broadband.
There was a little bit of mention about the dig once ordinance and that kind
of ties back to the – how can we reduce construction costs? Is that work
going to be completed? I know it’s being worked and we had a little update
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on that a while go but does anybody have an update on the dig once
ordinance?
Mr. Fleming: Yes, we’re continuing to do the evaluation in terms of reaching
out to third parties, specifically AT&T and Comcast, to develop an ordinance.
Many Cities have developed ordinances that require dig once but it takes a
lot of coordination to enforce a dig once policy and one of the key things that
we went or discovered early on, is that street conditions are very important
so which would encourage a dig once policy. Getting corporation from third
parties as they do their expansions is difficult sometimes. We had that issue
when we did underground districts for example and it’s getting AT&T and
Comcast to fully corporate on it. Yes, the work is proceeding in terms of dig
once and we’ve had ongoing meetings with AT&T and Comcast.
Council Member DuBois: I mean, I would really like to see us think about
kind of string once as well. Whether it’s aerial or underground but again, if
we are looking at a lot of construction in residential neighborhoods to put up
their wireless access points, it seems like now it the time to get that in a
place where it would really help the neighborhoods not to get – have their
streets dug up multiple times. Then kind of the string once ordinance, I
mean we own our poles and I’d definitely would like to see the City kind of
extract the value of those poles to the extent that we can under the law. A
couple quick questions on the wi-fi portion. The lifetime cost, how long does
that equipment last? When you say there’s a one-time cost and an operating
cost, is it like a 5 or 6-year lifecycle?
Mr. Reichental: I don’t know a good answer that question. That would be
something that we need to look into. The current wi-fi that the City uses is
still – the equipment is still good. The signals are still good and that’s about
5-years so I think we still have a few more years out of it, for sure so that
emanate – replacement is not emanate on that.
Council Member DuBois: Then Cubberley is mentioned and I just wondered if
– I don’t know, maybe this more for the City Manager for making
investments at Cubberley or if that’s one – if we are going to redevelop it if
we would wait on that one. Same thing, I think recently we had the parks
plan with the golf course. This is something where we would put in golf
course wi-fi now or would – is there redevelopment emanate?
Mr. Keene: Would wi-fi help my drives at the golf course by any chance? No,
I think those are good points. Good things to think about really, right? I
don’t see why not.
Council Member DuBois: Yeah, I just…
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Mr. Reichental: May Jim could clarify, some of the course is the fiber, which
regardless of the building that were there, that would be useful. If there was
a new building, the fiber would still be (inaudible) (crosstalk).
Council Member DuBois: The idea that would go over City fiber for these
facilities?
Mr. Reichental: To bring the wi-fi to it, yes.
Council Member DuBois: Ok, good. I don’t know if my Colleagues will want
but I could throw out an early Motion, if you want and that you could react
to or you could talk first?
Chair Wolbach: Well, Lydia, do you want to say anything before we move to
motions? Well, before we do, whatever the motion is but I was hoping that
we start actually with the Staff recommendation.
Council Member DuBois: It’s pretty close.
Chair Wolbach: Go for it. Give it a try.
Council Member DuBois: I mean, it’s kind of summarizing my comments. I
am essentially moving your recommendation to focus on the fiber to the
node but I’d like to see a few changes before it comes to Council in terms of
defining more clearly what the goals are with the fiber to the node. To reach
out to other Cities on approaches that are kind of post-Google and share
funding models if we can. To include some ROI estimates and to present
maybe a high-level idea of what a roll out strategy would be with an
estimate of how many homes would be passed. To flush out a little bit more
the communication strategies so like what would we be asking residents and
when and the second part is to expand the wi-fi to the unserved City
facilities but look – consider I guess, if any of those facilities are going to be
rebuilt in the near future. That’s it.
Chair Wolbach: I’ll second that.
MOTION: Council Member DuBois moved, seconded by Chair Wolbach to
recommend the City Council:
A. Approve Option 2 for the Municipal Fiber-to-the-Node Network (FTTN)
for fiber and broadband expansion (expand wording on Option 2 here);
and
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B. To define more clearly the goals of FTTN and reach out to other
communities, include ROI estimates and present a high level idea of a
roll out strategy and affected homes as well as a communication
strategy; and (refer to Motion from Tom DuBois)
C. Expand Wi-Fi to unserved City facilities; and
D. Discontinue consideration of City-provided Wi-Fi in commercial areas.
Council Member DuBois: Was that clear to you guys?
Mr. Reichental: That was very clear to me, yes. Maybe (inaudible)
Mr. Shikada: Perhaps – maybe just to give a quick reaction. I think it’s clear.
It does present a bit of a dilemma to the extent that estimating or even
necessarily getting a feel for homes passed, presumes some of the work that
we anticipate doing as a next step; now, for example, the preliminary
design. I’ll turn to Staff that if they see other ways to get there.
Council Member DuBois: Maybe I could word it different -- I’m really
interested in are we just talking about going down Middlefield Road and
nothing else or is this really – again, is it really the last 50-feet that we are
talking about or literally the last mile kind of connections?
Mr. Shikada: If you don’t mind, maybe perhaps a little more informal in the
conversation of the – I think the challenge is that it depends on which
neighborhood we are referring to and that’s where the initial assessment or
even identification of a few handful of neighborhoods that we think might be
interested in pursuing this could be a good starting point. To be able to say
that if it is Crescent Park or whatever, that the – here’s where the network
currently is. Here’s where the extensions and the likely order of magnitude
on homes passed versus it would be a collection of streets and the like. I
think from the Staff perspective, we’ve got no particular preference as to
which neighborhoods would be and/or – to your other point on the
communications strategy, how best to approach it. I think we’re somewhat
blank slate in the way to best approach it. We’re certainly open to the
pointers from the Committee as to where you think we ought to go with that
and we’d be happy to follow up. In the absences of that, we may be
shooting in the dark a bit.
Council Member DuBois: It kind of tied back to the goals. I mean if we
reach out to some of those cell companies and potential customers and
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there were areas in the City that they were willing to pay – to get access to.
Also, on part of the business model, I think might be the density of homes.
If there are certain areas where we could roll out more cheaply. Again, that’s
where I really think somebody who’s built out a network as a consultant to
us might be able to offer some strategy about how to roll it out, right? I’m a
little bit – I don’t want to do just like a survey – Survey Monkey and pick a
neighborhood.
Chair Wolbach: I guess I just want to kind of follow up on this and see if we
need to amend the motion at all. As worded, the additions beyond the Staff
recommendation, do see that – besides not being clear enough, do you
anticipate that would cause substantial delay in this coming back to Council?
I know we do have a tendency to add new things at every meeting and
we’re doing that a little bit here but at the same time, I support the motion
because I think the points are good ones. I’d guess I’d be open to having
them be requested but we can continue to reiterate that they can still come
to Council, even if you haven’t fully answered every single one of those
question but to the degree, reasonable by the time it comes to Council to
start to look into those issues. That was my – what I was envisioning with
the motion as secondar.
Mr. Reichental: I was going to have a little stab at answering and then Ed
can add. My – the way that I kind of heard the response a little bit was that
the actual motion that we are asking for will have an answer that will answer
Council Member DuBois questions. So, we have to do the work to get those
answers. Some of them we just wouldn’t be able to – the ROI estimates, for
example, would depend on the business case and so coming back on August
14th without actually doing the business case work, it’s difficult. It’s like
chicken and the egg situation. There is some guessing that we could do but
it wouldn’t be as well informed as it will be when we do that actual business
case work.
Chair Wolbach: I guess maybe, do we want to change the Motion to make it
a little bit more flexible for the Staff?
Council Member DuBois: I’m asking for estimates. Call them guesses but I
mean – yeah, I would just – also, I think it’s kind of maybe how you present
it to Council. If it’s just presented as per cost with no benefit – if there is
some way you can quantify the benefit and understand that the models may
change but hopefully, we’re starting to hone in a little bit on a model as well.
Even though we still need to do the actual work.
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Chair Wolbach: I guess what I would add is just if it’s truly not possible to
provide any of those things that we’ve asked for as the additional requests.
If it truly is burdensome, bring those back as they become clear. That we –
these are things that we want to eventually be able to answer and these are
the kinds of question that we are thinking about and as it becomes clear and
possible to answer those question, to bring those back to Council.
Mr. Shikada: Given that clarification, perhaps what we can do between now
and when we get to Council or what we would present to Council would have
some qualitative perspectives on each one of those issues without putting
numbers behind them. I think we can, perhaps, advance the discussion by
identifying what we would hope to get out of the next steps and again,
maybe some pro-typical applications of things like – begin the network
approach that we would take, as well as some of the goals that we would
hope to see that would ultimately be flushed out based upon the further
work in next steps.
Chair Wolbach: If I could actually just ask a couple other questions. Actually,
Council Member Kou, do you have questions as well? I’ll differ to you.
Council Member Kou: Thank you. Just a question, so it’s going to go to
Council next? Not so much coming back to Policy and Services, right? Is the
goal, when it goes to Council, that we have most of the answers so we don’t
send it back for another study?
Chair Wolbach: It sounds like this is – I’ll let Staff weigh in but it sounds like
this is a – it’s going to be a long-term project and very iterative and so it will
be checking in with UAC again, I’m guessing and it will be coming back to
Committees. We’re talking about a potentially multi-years project, right?
Mr. Shikada: Yes, and so based on the Motion as currently stated. I would
imagine that our next step would be to Council with some additional
information as just described. We would definitely think that that’s an
important step because our step after that will be to procure several of these
professional services. In order to ensure that Council is giving us clear
direction to proceed with that. That would be the next items for us to bring
forward.
Council Member Kou: Thank you.
Chair Wolbach: Yeah, so I guess my next couple questions are one is – sorry
if I missed or didn’t hear but is the options still available if we do this, would
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there be a level of option in the future for the City to run that last mile itself
as a potential – rather than going private? If we did decide to do public –
basically, if we -- can fiber to the node be a stepping stone to fiber to the
premises?
Mr. Shikada: Yes.
Chair Wolbach: Great.
Mr. Shikada: Clearly it could.
Chair Wolbach: That was my understanding and I wanted (inaudible)
(crosstalk)
Mr. Reichental: (Inaudible)
Chair Wolbach: I just want to be really explicated about that. That was my
understanding and thank you for confirming. I saw some of the public
question and stuff during the – in the minutes of the UAC meeting. Also, on
the question of parks (inaudible) – looking at Page 14 of the report. I guess
there was a determination made for policy reason not to explore more
expansions to parks. That it would diminish the safety or even the quality of
the experience of going to a park. I guess I would probably have a different
take on that from a policy perspective that being able to check your email if
you want while you are sitting on a park bench doesn’t hurt. What I didn’t
see was and again, I might have missed it, the costs for expanding to
different parks. You know, per park or something like that. If – I don’t know
if there is any more thought about that or any more information about that.
Mr. Reichental: We did do – in our prep work we did do – we know the
(inaudible) level parks but the Community Services Director in consultation
with the community group for park really ruled it out. I will give you one
example. We – broadly Staff wanted to support wi-fi at the Magical
Playground so my team was asked to provide it. We went over there and
provided it and there was a very strong reaction to it and we had to
immediately take it away. Parents and advisors to the Community Services
Director said this is – you can’t have that here and so we had to take it
away. Just as one example.
Chair Wolbach: That’s very interesting. I guess I wonder if that would still be
true at all other parks. Would that be true at Greer Park where you might
have people there for quite a while they are watching – with a lot of other
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parents around you but watching their kids play team sport or over at –
even say Foothills Park at the Baylands where you want to check your email
while you are at the visitor center and then go for hike and check it again
when you come back. I guess I’m not sure this is the end of the line for that
discussion or would we still again have the option to revisit that in the
future, I suppose.
Mr. Reichental: I mean, the ability to revisit it, absolutely. One hundred
percent is the answer.
Chair Wolbach: Ok, thank you. Any other discussion?
Council Member DuBois: I just had another question. Have we seriously
looked at running fiber in some of our utility infrastructures? Whether waste
water pipes or gas lines. Is that something that we’ve rolled out?
Mr. Fleming: We already have fiber to critical facilities like substations for
examples. There are other more remote locations where monitoring may be
done with the – an old pack bell or copper line. It doesn't require fiber
necessarily to that location because it would be overkill.
Council Member DuBois: I’m talking about running fiber to neighborhoods
but putting it through the gas line or through the waste water.
Mr. Fleming: Oh, ok. I’m sorry. I misunderstood your question. I’m going to
defer to Dean Bachelor on that.
Council Member DuBois: You haven’t looked at it at all, ok. I think some
Cities are doing that in typically Asia, I believe. I’m just curious. Should we
vote on the motion then?
Chair Wolbach: Yeah, let’s, if that’s it? Alright, all in favor of the Motion say
aye? Alright, that seems to be unanimous. Yeah, and that included – the
motion did include the wireless as well. Thank you, everybody.
MOTION PASSED: 3-0 Kniss absent
3. Recreational and Medical Marijuana: Review and Discussion of State
Law Developments and Input to Staff on Next Steps, Including
Possible Ordinance Adopting Local Regulations Regarding Commercial
Marijuana Activity, Outdoor Cultivation, and Marijuana Dispensaries.
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This Action is Exempt Under Section 15061(b)(3) of the California
Environmental Quality Act.
Future Meetings and Agendas
Chair Wolbach: Last item or excuse me, post item. Future meetings and
agendas. At our next meeting in June, we will be talking about the Marijuana
item that we pushed forward from this meeting. As well as privacy and
surveillance and I can’t remember off the top of my head what else will be
coming back.
James Keene, City Manager: We also potentially have Cubberley Master Plan
RFP. We’ll have to see where the School Board is in there and the
consideration of it so that it’s most timely. We also have two audits in
utilities. One on contract oversight, trenching, and insulation of electrical
substructure and the hydromax cross spore contract audit. They may or may
not be ready and they are not time sensitive so I would work with the
auditor to probably remove one or two of those items if Cubberley and data
collection would still stay on there because you’ve got marijuana then also.
Chair Wolbach: Yeah, that’s probably a good idea. The date that we are
looking at for that is still the 13th of June.
Mr. Keene: That’s correct.
Chair Wolbach: Ok, any other thoughts from Committee members? Just a
chance to check in about future agendas. No obligation, I just want to make
sure that you are included in that conversation; always. Alright, great. Well,
we are adjourned. Thank you very much.
ADJOURNMENT: Meeting was adjourned at 9:19 P.M.