HomeMy WebLinkAbout2015-11-10 Policy & Services Committee Summary MinutesPOLICY AND SERVICES COMMITTEE
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Regular Meeting
November 10, 2015
Chairperson Chair Burt called the meeting to order at 7:19 P.M. in the
Community Meeting Room, 250 Hamilton Avenue, Palo Alto, California.
Present: Berman, Burt (Chair), DuBois, Wolbach
Absent:
Chair Burt: We're going to have a small change in our Agenda Item 1,
which is the Auditor's Quarterly Report will move down to following Item
Number 3. That will help a bunch of people who are here for other items.
The Auditor has to be here for Item 4 anyway, so she volunteered to
readjust.
Oral Communications
Chair Burt: In that case, our first order of business is to allow the public to
speak on items that are not scheduled on the agenda. I don't have any
speaker cards for non-agendized items.
Agenda Items
Chair Burt: We'll go forward with agendized Item Number 2, which is the
Policy and Services Committee review of the Fiscal Year 2015 and '16 use of
the Bryant Street Garage Fund for Teen Services and options for Fiscal Year
2017 spending plan. For those who aren't familiar, our fiscal year runs from
July 1st through June 30th each year. It's kind of mid-year to the middle of
the next year. Beth, did you ...
Beth Minor, City Clerk: Chair Burt, yes. We were talking about returning an
information item back to you quickly.
Chair Burt: Before we begin on Item 2, the City Clerk has an information
item for the Committee.
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Ms. Minor: Beth Minor, City Clerk, Chair Burt and Committee Members. At
the last Policy and Services meeting, you requested whether I could do a poll
of the Board and Commission Members if they were restricted to not being
able to present an item to their Board, if we could do that poll. In talking to
the City Attorney, we can do that poll. We are refining the question at this
time and can get the poll out later this week and, hopefully within about ten
days, get a response back from them. I just wanted to let you know that it
is possible, and we are working on it.
Chair Burt: Thank you.
2. Policy and Services Committee Review the FY 2015 and FY 2016 Use of
Bryant Street Garage Fund for Teen Services and Options for FY 2017
Spending Plan.
Chair Burt: Now returning to Item Number 2.. Welcome. We have a Staff
presentation with Rob and Lacee and who else?
Rob de Geus, Director of Community Services: Good evening, Chair Burt
and Council Members. Rob de Geus, Director of Community Services. We're
here this evening to discuss what we have affectionately called the Bryant
Street Garage Fund, a property at 455 Bryant Street that was once a Teen
Center and now generates annual lease revenues, of which 75 percent of
those revenues support new additional teen programs and services. We're
in the second year of the use of the Bryant Street funds. We're here and
happy to share some of the results and the outcomes of the use of those
funds and share some thinking about future use and listen to your feedback
and receive your guidance. It's my pleasure to introduce three amazing,
talented women sitting to my right over here. They're leaders in the
Community Services Department, terrific individuals. Lacee Kortsen, she's a
Senior Community Services Manager at Mitchell Park Community Center.
Karen Kienzle, on the end there, is the Director of the Palo Alto Art Center.
Marieke Gaboury is the Director of Theater Operations at the Children's
Theatre. These three do a great deal for the City and for Community
Services. One specific area of focus is serving teens. I've asked them to
prepare the presentation. They are really the boots on the ground with their
team. We're going to hear from them. We're also going to hear from
students that we asked to come, that have taken advantage of these funds,
so you can hear directly from some of the population that's being served.
With that, I'll pass it on to Lacee to kick us off.
Lacee Kortsen, Senior Program Manager: Hello, Council. Thanks for having
us here today. I'm going to be running off the PowerPoint here. For the
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teens that are going to speak, I believe we want them to use this
microphone over here in the corner. Is that right?
Mr. de Geus: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Kortsen: You guys, when it's your turn, come up to the microphone
over here in the corner. A quick overview of what the presentation holds for
you tonight. We're going to give you some background on the Bryant Street
Garage fund, and then also talk about how those funds have been used to
date, specifically in the grant program by the Teen Arts Council, Palo Alto Art
Center, clickPA and MakeX. Then we'll close with talking about the teen
outreach that we've done in consideration of how we might spend the
reserve, which is detailed in the Staff Report. First, some background. In
Fiscal Year '15, Council approved a plan to spend funds in the Bryant Street
Garage Fund to hire three hourly recreation leaders with the working title
Teen Program Specialist, who would support a pilot grant program in
addition to launching new teen programs, events and services in Palo Alto.
The grant program, which we will describe in detail throughout the
presentation, gives teens the funding, support and space for their ideas to
become reality and is arguably the most successful element of the BSGF.
We call it BSGF now, just so you know; that's a little acronym we have
going. BSGF program to date. The grant program is a similar concept to
incubators, that you may hear of in the tech industry, such as Google 500
startups. Google encourages startups to apply to their incubator. If a
startup is accepted into the program, Google provides them with seed
money, mentorship from Google employees and partners and space for the
startups to do their work. Similarly, if a Palo Alto teen has an idea for an
event, program or service, they can apply to the grant fund for funding,
support and mentorship and, if needed, facility space to make their idea
come to life. These are just a couple pictures from the various programs
that have been funded. Many of the funded applicants are groups that have
ongoing projects or not a one-time event. Those groups are listed here. As
you can see, we had a total of nine of these groups, 173 actual members
that meet on a regular basis, and 1,080 average teens served per month.
That is incredible impact and shows a high level of engagement between the
teens and the community they are serving and passion for their cause.
You're going to hear from a bunch of these groups tonight. In addition, we
received several applications throughout the year from teens that want
support to launch one-time events in the community. This year alone we
have funded ten events that have served almost 1,500 people. Again,
incredible impact and some very innovative events, all initiated by teens for
teens in the Palo Alto community. ClickPA is a program that you may be
familiar with. It's one of the oldest programs that have been funded by the
Bryant Street Garage Fund. It's an internship program with stipends. Each
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of the core staff, there are seven of them, has specific roles whether it be in
web design, marketing, public relations or volunteer management. They get
compensated with a stipend each semester. There's also a volunteer
program that's open to eighth through twelfth graders. They have weekly
web traffic of 140 visitors to their webpage which advertises and markets
teen events in Palo Alto to teens, 576 Facebook fans. Most recently, what
we're really excited about is a new partnership with Microsoft to develop a
mobile app to take ClickPA mobile. They were also a 2015 Project
Cornerstone nominee. Next, you're going to hear from a recently funded
group, FLY. It's a Financial Literacy for Youth program that has 18 members
and reaches approximately 60 youth each month. FLY makes financial
literacy a tangible concept for middle school youth, builds relationships and
mentorships between high school and middle school youth. We are lucky to
have Kevin Ji, the founder of FLY, here today to talk to us more about his
experience.
Kevin Ji: Hi. As Lacee introduced me, I'm Kevin and I am the founder of
Financial Literacy for Youth. I think that Financial Literacy for Youth is really
important, because as we go into the 21st century younger and younger kids
are having to deal with adult concepts such as money management. You
see sixth graders are now having smartphones, buying stuff and going to
shopping malls with their wallets open with bills. We have to teach all these
kids how to use their money wisely. I partner up with two programs, Youth
for Financial Literacy Organization which is in the Midwest and also LEAP, the
Learning Enrichment Afterschool Program at the Mitchell Park Community
Center. I think that it's really important that we also have teens involved in
this project. Not only are middle school students being educated, but also
teenagers. Teenagers are the teachers in the classroom. It's about 1
teenager to about 2 middle school students. We use as a workbook from the
YFL, the Youth Financial Literacy Organization, and we teach them through
the workbook the basic concepts such as budgeting, money management,
etc. The final project is this carnival, as you can see from this poster. Each
of the students is involved in making a game related to financial literacy
whether it be a dart game or a cake walk, things that you'll see like an
October Fest-kind of carnival. I think that the most important thing that I've
learned from working with the Bryant Street Garage Fund is working with
Jose about making all of my ideas possible. I got these workbooks, and I
didn't really know what to do to make the kids excited with them. It was
definitely Jose who helped me bring the idea of a carnival up. Kids love
candy and games, and working with Jose we were definitely able to work on
making the carnival a reality. This is the second time I've done FLY; I do it
once per semester. This carnival has definitely had drastic improvements
from the one this past spring. This is because me and Jose worked over the
summer and he mentored me in how to get more students to come. We're
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involved with teachers at middle schools so they can send their kids from
JLS which is right next to Mitchell Park Community Center to come. Also,
thanks to Alesia and Imel with the LEAP program. Since that has been
expanding, we have gotten more kids to work on that part as well. I think
that definitely with the help of Bryant Street Garage Fund, I am hoping the
community as a whole will learn more about money management. Thank
you.
Ms. Kortsen: Thank you, Kevin. The next speaker I wanted to highlight is
DocX Films. They recently created a documentary on the teen suicides in
Palo Alto to initiate and encourage positive dialog in the community around
hope and resilience. When they launched the film, they've had sold-out
screenings across Palo Alto, and they have recently returned from the LA
Film Festival, where they were invited to screen their movie. We are lucky
to have Andrew Baer, the founder of DocX Films, here to talk about his
experience.
Andrew Baer: Thank you for letting me speak here today. My name's
Andrew Baer, and I'm a senior at Paly. This summer I worked with a group
of other teenagers to produce a documentary film about mental health in our
community. As with any other film, the quality of it is not only dependent
on the talent of the filmmakers, but also on financial and technological
resources available for the project. This proved to be a significant need for
me and my film team. Shortly into the project, we realized that the film was
in crucial need of financial aid. We had cameras, microphones and
computers, but lacked some crucial tools for post-production that would
elevate our film above the normal standard. Luckily, one of my close friends
referred me to the Bryant Street Garage Fund and said, "You should apply
here for an application and see if you can get some funding." I presented
my storyboard and short slide show about the film to the administrators of
Bryant Street Garage Fund. After a few short weeks and some application
forms, the project was funded. We used the funds to purchase royalty free
music, some editing plug-ins and accessories. Without these, the film would
not have been as successful or professional. Furthermore, the Bryant Street
Garage Fund provided positive adult support and helped us put on the
premier which we certainly couldn't have done without their help. The film
was shown to many teens and adults throughout the community. I'm very
grateful that the Bryant Street Garage Fund was able to help make that a
possibility. Thank you.
Ms. Kortsen: Thank you, Andrew. Next we have Project Enybody. This is
another group that is in the second year of funding from the Bryant Street
Garage Fund. It has 15 members and reaches 50 youth per month. They
recently completed a PA Got Green contest and also launched Green Fest
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2015 that had over 250 people in attendance from the community. Today
we have the founder, William Zhao, here to talk about his experience with
Project Enybody.
William Zhao: Hello. My name is William. I am a senior at Paly, and I've
always been a nature enthusiast. Seeing melting glaciers in Alaska two
years ago really motivated me to want to do something to protect the
environment. A couple of years ago with the help of the City and Bryant
Street Garage Fund, I started my own environmental organization made up
of Paly and Gunn students, and it's called Project Enybody standing for Earth
Needs You and sort of embodying this idea that anybody can make a
difference. With the support of the Bryant Street Garage Fund, we've
continued to expand our scope and reach. Just last week actually at this
time, we were in front of the School Board presenting with Walt Hays to
campaign for solar panels on schools, which is really cool. This summer we
also got to work with the Chamber of Commerce of Palo Alto Medical
Foundation to host Green Fest at Mitchell Park where we had local green
organizations and businesses teach over 200 family members on how to be
more efficient in their daily lives. I know some of the Council Members were
there as well. Other things we've done include teen green art contests,
speaker nights and energy home renovations. I think it's important to note
that the current scale of Project Enybody would not have been possible
without Bryant Street Garage Fund and our amazing mentor, Jose Perez,
who has helped us plan, find resources, spaces, connections and helped
each of us become better leaders and also team players. He's even inspired
some of our Enybody members to sort of launch their own Bryant Street
Garage Funds which, I think, is really inspiring. Bryant Street Garage Fund
is truly special; there's nothing like it that gives teens the opportunity to
take their passions and interests and make such meaningful and positive
impacts. I could go on and on, but honestly this has been one of my
favorite and most important learning experiences living in Palo Alto. I think
it really epitomizes our City's sort of spirit of progression, belief in
community service and commitment to creating these really passionate and
innovative youth. I sincerely hope that more teens in the future will be able
to experience this and that we'll continue setting examples for other cities in
the nation. Thank you.
Ms. Kortsen: Thank you, William. That's just a couple of examples of the
great that's been done in the Bryant Street Garage Fund grant program. In
addition to that, the Teen Arts Council has been doing some incredible work
with the Bryant Street Garage Fund. I'm going to turn it over to Marieke
Gaboury to talk more about that.
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Marieke Gaboury, Theater Specialist: You've heard about a lot of the
projects that the Teen Arts Council have done in the past. We've had some
years of really exciting work as an initiative of the Children's Theatre,
including open mike nights, poetry events, original student productions. I'm
sure all of you know that when teens put on a project and they can get 100
to 150 of their peers to attend anything, we consider it a wild success.
We've been really excited to have some of the help from Bryant Street
Garage Funds to help them expand their programming and build on it. One
of the ways that we were helped was through Staff time as well as through
actual project resources. An example of Staff time was that generally the
Children's Theatre is able to give them a contractor that serves them during
the school year but then not throughout the summer, so there's no summer
planning phase, there's no summer meetings. This past summer they were
able to have a summer retreat where they actually had leadership training
and planned for their future year ahead which would help them diversify
their events. That was a really exciting step. The biggest project that they
had funded through the Bryant Street Garage Fund was an original
production that they produced themselves, filling all of the leadership roles
of a play called Ghost Bike. We have a member from the Teen Arts Council
here, Claire, who's going to come and talk to you a little bit about her
experience with Ghost Bike.
Claire Eberhart: Hello. My name is Claire Eberhart, and I am a junior at
Palo Alto High School. I work with the Teen Arts Council on lots of things
like poetry jams, open mikes and movie nights and a lot more. I was the
Executive Production Designer for our spring show, Ghost Bike, which was
funded by the Bryant Street Garage Fund. I worked on the show from
November 2014 until we performed in 2015. Ghost Bike was an incredible
opportunity for young artists to work with their peers to create an amazing,
thought-provoking performance. From directing and acting and performing,
producing and stage managing, all the executive positions and roles were
filled by teens which gave us the opportunity to exercise and build
leadership skills. These funds not only helped us put on a great
performance, but also helped us turn our creative vision into a reality. This
show took a lot of work, but the entire cast, crew and audience agreed it
turned out to be an incredible success. Our teen producer Joelle Dong says,
"Ghost Bike was an amazing experience for the cast, crew and audience
involved. We are so grateful to have had the resources to put on such a
fantastic show. It is truly an experience that will last a lifetime." A
statement from our executive teen stage manager, Jason Pollock, "Ghost
Bike was a life-changing show for me. It gave me a new perspective on
theater by working with just my peers and by stage managing for the first
time. It also gave me more confidence in my love of theater and more
motivation to continue pursuing my passion. Teen Arts Council and its
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shows have been an invaluable part of my artistic identity." We are all so
grateful. We had a wonderful time. Thank you.
Ms. Gaboury: Ghost Bike actually happened in our last fiscal year. In the
current fiscal year, we're really focusing on helping the Teen Arts Council
diversify. They've already done an amazing job, but we're looking at
reaching more students from north and south Palo Alto as well as helping
them really diversify through collaborative events. We're going to be doing
events with TAC and the Youth Council as well as with the Art Center and
with LEAP, where they're actually going to start mentoring students.
They've also expanded their meeting location. They've traditionally met at
the Children's Theatre, but with this additional project support, they're now
able to hold one meeting a month at the Teen Center. They're spending
more time at Mitchell Park which is, again, helping us serve both parts of the
community. In the next fiscal year, we'd like to continue to build on the
success of these collaborations. We'll also be looking to help them expand
their kind of definition of Teen Arts Council. Because it started from the
Children's Theatre, it just happens to be sort of performing arts centric.
They're going to be looking to doing events that actually serves a more
broad definition of arts and, therefore, serving a larger teen community.
We're also going to be looking to really build our relationships with PAUSD
and really help foster and mentor projects that come from the students
directly for the Garage Funds. We're really excited about it. I'm going to
turn it over to my colleague, Karen Kienzle, from the Arts Center.
Karen Kienzle, Palo Alto Arts Center Director: Thanks, Marieke. The Bryant
Street Garage Funds have been really instrumental to the Arts Center to
prototype and test some new ideas for engaging teens in the arts. I want to
mention a couple of things we did this summer. One of which is the Walter
Robinson Workshop. We hosted an exhibition of work by Walter Robinson.
He's a nationally recognized artist who grew up in Palo Alto, and actually
went to Cubberley High School. We engaged teens in an opportunity to
learn about Walter and his work and then do a hands-on art activity where
they actually did leather embossing. Walter is an artist who's really
fascinated by text, so the leather embossing activity engaged teens in
actually doing text-based works. We also launched a teen ceramics drop-in
program, which was really successful for us. This was really a beta test. We
had no idea whether this was going to be successful or not. It was hugely
successful. Ceramics is something that you really can't do at home, and so
we found that teens were really interested in engaging in this media. This
was mentored, so we had a ceramics faculty member who was onsite. It
really was an opportunity for teens to explore ideas, and the mentor was
there to kind of support teens in exploring new styles or techniques. Current
fiscal year, we're continuing workshops with artists, giving teens an
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opportunity to engage directly with professional artists. We're launching a
new teen initiative Compose Yourself which is an exciting opportunity for
teens to engage in a wide range of different projects including artist
workshops. We're exploring a collaborative teen mural project. Also looking
at offering drop-in ceramics again in the summer along with some other
drop-in art activities as those were incredibly popular. Next fiscal year,
second Compose Yourself workshop, drop-in ceramics and potentially
exploring further opportunities with this teen mural project. This is one of
the testimonials from a teen who participated. I'll let you read. Now I'm
really excited to introduce the entire large and incredibly vital MakeX team.
They are amazing.
Claire Kokontis: Hi, I'm Claire.
James Wong: James.
Kai Gallagher: Kai.
Ms. Kokontis: We're from MakeX, and MakeX is a teen-run maker space for
students by students. A maker space, our maker space at least, is an open
workshop and it combines traditional machine shop tools with 21st century
machine shops tools like 3-D printers and laser cutters. We work with
students that come in in the mentorship programs to teach them the skills
they need to use the machines and to work on their own independent
projects. We're really excited that we were able to provide these services to
teens and students and community members through the Bryant Street
Garage Fund, because without the money to maintain the machine shop
tools and buy new materials and tools for people to use, we really would not
be able to exist as an organization. We're really excited that we can bring
these tools to people who may not have access to them without MakeX.
Mr. Gallagher: Not only are we a traditional maker space where we train
people with the design, fabrication and refinement process, but I think one
of our greatest assets is that we're a wellness program. We encourage
creative autonomy and, like I said, wellness. This is because we're
completely sustained by teens. Visitors who come to MakeX can expect to
not only share the vast wealth of knowledge that the teen mentors have, but
they also are in an environment of friends. They're very willing and fearless
when they are pursuing new things and being creative and just really, really
comfortable. They can recuperate maybe from the stresses of a typical Palo
Alto High Schooler. Not only that, but we also developed a community
through making. What that means is that students from many different
walks of life are all unified at our space, because we're all sharing the same
passion, we're all helping each other out. People who normally may not
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interact are making friends with others and making connections and just
making really, really great things.
Mr. Wong: This variety in makers leads to a big variety in projects. As you
guys have seen, we have a guitar and a self-made electric vehicle in this
room as well as things like Eagle Scout projects and a nuclear fuser recently.
It's completely safe, don't worry. Let's hear some guitar.
Russell Starlack: I'll show this (inaudible) I don't know if it will support
(inaudible) put it on the table. This is a 1957 deluxe amp, a (inaudible)
amp. It usually goes for $2,000 or $3,000 on the market, already made. I
didn't want to pay that amount of money, so I bought all the parts from the
individual resistors for about $500. I decided I could solder them all
together and make something that works. The only issue was that I didn't
know how to solder. That's where MakeX came in. I brought everything
there, and it took a fair amount of floor space (inaudible) parts that I had. I
spent about three months making this and putting it all together. I guess
they asked me to come and play something. Coincidentally, the first time
that I actually performed with this was at a TAC open mike. You guys can
name this. [Mr. Starlack played his guitar.]
Mr. Gallagher: In the past year, we've served about 300 unique people
which amounts to 1,000 visits and over 2,000 hours. These aren't people
that just pop in and say "Hi." The average visit is around two hours. These
are people who are helping, very much like Russell and Jeremy, make things
that maybe they don't have the skill to make when they come in. Also our
mentors have learned a lot in their journey learning to teach what they
know. We've produced four Presidents Awards which amounts to about
1,000 hours between four teen mentors. We've had an impact beyond just
our walls at the building. We've done outreach programs with the Mitchell
Park and Rinconada Libraries, at their openings. We've taught kids what
making can mean to them and what they can do with just really basic skills
with power tools and how far it can take them with just making something
that at first existed only in their head. We've also done education talks. Our
most recent was the Fab Learn Conference at Stanford, where we had the
opportunity to talk to educators from around the world, around the country,
who are doing the same thing we are which is bringing making to people
who maybe wouldn't go out of their way to find it or don't know how to learn
about it themselves.
Mr. Wong: What this all sums to is a really rigorous development of
technical literacy. Like Kai said, we have a lot of people involved, but each
person who is involved is also getting a very deep level of skills. They're
learning the design process, the fabrication process and the refinement
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process, not only improving their creative confidence, problem-solving skills,
skills working in teams and just their friend circles, I guess. They're also
leaving MakeX with a desire to educate others, they become entrepreneurs
and start little companies. They just find lots of really great ways to give
back to the community.
Chair Burt: I've got a couple of follow-up questions if that's okay at this
time? How many kids are typically there on a given day?
Mr. Wong: We get anywhere between like 10 and 25. Right now our space
is just big enough to sustain this amount. Sometimes we get overrun.
Yeah, we get a pretty consistent amount in between Fridays and Saturdays.
Chair Burt: Has it been that way throughout or has it been growing in terms
of number of kids?
Mr. Wong: It has been growing. We originally started in the Art Center;
actually we didn't get too many people. Then we jumped between different
places until we landed in Cubberley. Since we've been in Cubberley and
developed a more permanent culture, people have been trickling in. It's
grown from like 6 to 10 to 15 to 20, sometimes like 30 people. It's just
been really great.
Chair Burt: It's how much space? Maybe Staff knows the square footage or
you can just tell me about how many feet by how many feet.
Mr. Wong: I would say it's about half the size of this room here.
Chair Burt: Outside of our Staff, are there mentors that are involved?
Ms. Kokontis: Adult mentors?
Chair Burt: Yeah.
Mr. Wong: We had mentorship in the beginning of the program from some
consultants and a lot from the Art Center which was really great. Since
then, we've been pretty independent. We've gotten some help from the
Library along the way, the Community Services Department. The mentors,
we handle pretty much everything. We do budgeting, we train volunteers,
we manage the space, we clean the space, improve the space, find outreach
programs, conduct the outreach programs. Much of it is teen sustained.
Chair Burt: Out of those of you who are pretty active and regularly there,
how many hours a week do you spend there?
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Mr. Wong: Too many.
Mr. Gallagher: I would say like ten-plus per week. The open hours amount
to six, and then we're there on and off for maintenance as well as just
checking on the space and talking about what's next (inaudible) MakeX.
Mr. Wong: I can't resist just spending a lot of my free time at MakeX
working on my own projects.
Chair Burt: I think you're answering my next question. How much of this is
about—I mean, you're obviously learning a ton of stuff. While you're
learning that, how much of what brings you there is wanting to acquire a
skill and how much of it is that once you're hooked on it, you love it?
Mr. Wong: I would say it's definitely half-half for me. Obviously MakeX
offers tools that can't be found anywhere else, like a laser cutter, 3-D
printer, some power tools. What really has me coming back over and over
again is the group of friends that I've developed at MakeX. The MakeX
mentors who I didn't know too well at the beginning of the project have
become my closest friends. We've been able to build projects together, and
we just encourage each other to keep coming back and keep developing our
space.
Ms. Kokontis: I think the reason I keep coming back is because all the other
mentors are really inspiring me, because you can see all the things that
they've created. You really want to do it yourself too and find the things
that you're really interested in, develop those skills to make it and then have
a product that you've come up with yourself.
Chair Burt: Great, thanks.
Mr. de Geus: Chair Burt, I'll just add something there. The MakeX program
is definitely (inaudible) it's fair to say. It really began out of the leadership
of Karen Kienzle, the Director of the Art Center, with support from the
Library. The Library took it over for a little while, but that wasn't quite
working. Then we moved it over to Community Services to provide greater
support. They're correct; they're a very independent group.
Chair Burt: Rob, do we have any corporate partners who are contributing
materials, equipment, those kinds of things?
Mr. de Geus: None that I'm aware of.
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Mr. Wong: We don't have any official sponsors, but we send out requests
for free equipment.
Chair Burt: It shows up?
Mr. Wong: People are charitable, so they send us free things. We've gotten
some free laser tubes and these other little things here, but nothing major.
Mr. de Geus: I think it's a great opportunity though, because there was a lot
of people that believed in this type of program among the others that we're
doing. There's an opportunity for grants and other things here.
Chair Burt: Grants and a lot of our local companies. Out of those that are
still making stuff, they have an affinity toward wanting to help people are
interested in the hardware side of things today. You ought to get your
laundry list of what you'd really like to have, and we can see what can turn
up.
Council Member DuBois: I have one quick question.
Chair Burt: Yeah.
Council Member DuBois: The teens that go to the maker lab, do they tend
to be different than the people involved in the robotics or is it kind of the
same group?
Ms. Kokontis: Actually I bring some of my friends from robotics. I'm
actually the captain of the robotics team. I bring some of my friends over
when they need to use stuff. I don't know; what do you guys think?
Mr. Wong: I think something really great about MakeX is, as I said before, a
lot of people who typically wouldn't identify as maker inclined still come. A
lot of people on the robotics team are like very machine savvy and stuff like
that. Russell, for example, he didn't have very much experience with
technology, but he came ...
Mr. Starlack: I kind of hate stuff.
Mr. Wong: He's a history guy. He came just to hang out. After a while, he
kind of got infected by the maker culture. We convinced him to start a
project, and then it escalated into a very, very impressive guitar amp.
Chair Burt: I realized one other question. Just by kind of word of mouth,
it's caught on and growing. You're kind of maxed out on space, you're
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saying. Putting that aside for a moment, outside of your friends, that that's
how this word of mouth helps it grow, what portion of the teens in town,
would you say, are familiar with the MakeX space?
Mr. Wong: I can only speak for the students in my school, I guess, but most
of the people in my grade know about MakeX and have dropped by at some
point. I also forgot to mention that a big part of our audience is actually
elementary schoolers and middle schoolers too. It's not just our group of
friends. We have a lot of people who have just seen MakeX and since then
have become repeat visitors, learning how to use 3-D modeling software,
learning how to use our tools which are typically way beyond the scope of
like elementary or middle school education. We have visitors like that as
well.
Mr. de Geus: We have a couple more slides, but since we're on this
interesting topic; all of them are. We are also trying to make a connection
between the Cubberley Artist Studio Program and some of the artists that
are in residence there and connecting them with the MakeX kids. That
seems like a nexus and some mentorship that can happen there. Something
we're working on.
Chair Burt: Thank you.
Ms. Kortsen: In addition to the testimonials that you've been able to hear
today from a couple of our teens, we also have some evaluation data. After
every Bryant Street Garage Fund program or event is completed, we send
the folks that participated a survey to fill out, just talking about their
experience. We've got some really great data from it. 100 percent of the
teens felt that their project was a success. Not that it went perfectly, very
rarely do we get a perfect project, but it was successful. They learned
something from it. They have new skills. They built relationships. That, for
us, was a huge win. Also, you can see the number of hours that they spent
on average is very considerable, 85 percent spent more than 40 hours on
their projects. You can see they're very engaged, passionate about their
project and willing to put in the time needed to make sure that it comes to
life. The next piece of data that we found really interesting was on
developmental assets. I don't know if you're familiar, but in 2011 Palo Alto
Unified School District sent out a survey to all youth in the School District.
For the purposes of this presentation, we focused just on the high schools
numbers. The lowest asset that was identified was the community values
youth, only 22 percent of high school students had that asset. That's
something that we as Community Services Department in the City of Palo
Alto can significantly impact. In this program, we wanted to see if Bryant
Street Garage Fund, because of all the relationships that we're building with
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the teens through the program, how it would impact this asset in particular.
You can see it did impact it in a significant way. On the left-hand side
column, you'll see the 2011 results, what percent strongly agreed with the
statement or agree. On the right column, you'll see what percentage of
students agree with the statement. There's a significant increase from 2011
to the Bryant Street Garage Fund participants. We're proud of that asset.
We definitely want to continue to build on that success and expand. Also,
the next piece which is actually my favorite statistic is 100 percent said that
they were able to build positive relationships with adults through the project.
It's so important for teens to build positive impactful relationships with
adults in the community. That is one of the main outcomes of the Bryant
Street Garage Fund grant program. From these testimonials alone, you can
see that teens built relationships with the business community, with CBOs
and with Staff at the Teen Center. They felt valued and, I especially like this
quote from the last paragraph, "It's really cool how us, the teens, were able
to work on the same level as the adults. We were essentially peers, treated
just like adults or even leaders, which was really cool and made us feel like
our ideas mattered." That's another, like I said, key indicator that what
we're doing is working, that we have something here and want to continue
to build on it. I think that quote was from William. We're going to do kind
of a transition here. That was one piece, what we've done and what we've
launched and the lessons that we've learned from the Bryant Street Garage
Fund grant program. We also have this other kind of topic that we've been
trying to wrap our heads around, this reserve. There's a significant amount
of money in a reserve fund. It's in the Staff Report, over $300,000.
Mr. de Geus: It's about $321,000.
Ms. Kortsen: There we go. It's a significant amount of money. We want to
make sure that what we do propose is something that the teens want. We
wanted to make sure that we did due diligence in researching that. In
talking with Karen Kienzle, she has a lot of experience in kind of the design-
thinking process, so she helped us kind of embark on this.
Ms. Kienzle: Thanks Lacee. We use design thinking a lot at the Art Center.
My MakeX colleagues will know that design thinking was really an integral
part in the kind of design of MakeX. We used a design-thinking tool to kind
of look at how might we spend these funds in a way that would be most
impactful to the community. We first started by developing frameworks,
really looking at what are the questions that we want to answer. That was
the first step in the process. The most profound step was the interviews.
We interviewed a variety of teens. The process was really actually profound
for many of us. We interviewed a lot of teens who told us that failure was
not an option for them, that they deliberately do not engage in activities
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where they think they may fail. It was hard; it was a really difficult process
for us as Staff working with teens. The concept of free time is foreign to
many teens. Again, fear of failure and then transportation was identified as
a barrier to engaging and participating in programs. Those were key
findings from the interview sessions. Based on that, we started to
brainstorm and prototype solutions to some of these issues with teens in our
community. One of the ideas that came out was a teen shuttle that could
provide transportation to various sites in the community that had all sorts of
amazing features that would be particularly appealing to teens; an app and
game (inaudible) system; kind of thinking about this notion of a failure club,
like how could you kind of accumulate badges or participate in new activities
and be rewarded for it; an international service learning program; and this
idea of kind of an outward bound program we called Adventure Palo Alto.
Some of the ideas. We did some awesome building, tons of fun art
materials. The MakeX teens know that we have some really awesome art
materials in the Art Center basement, lots of fun stuff for prototyping.
Ms. Kortsen: It was a very interesting process. As many of you know that
have been through the design-thinking process, it's one thing to kind of
prototype a solution and another to actually make it reality. Of all these
after we had prototyped them, the one that we felt had the most legs was
this teen shuttle. That was a barrier that we thought we could have
significant impact on. With that said, in the next steps, we wanted to
remove that perceived transportation barrier and move forward with doing
this teen shuttle, but then we found out that the Planning Department had
embarked on this five-year plan, had hired a consultant and was going to
definitely to take the teens' needs into consideration when developing this
plan. To avoid a duplication of efforts, we are just going to work with
Planning on that shuttle five-year plan and make sure that the teens' voices
are definitely heard when putting that together. In the meantime and kind
of concurrently, we want to do an outreach campaign that promotes the
current free and affordable means of transportation that we have in Palo Alto
for teens, whether it is promoting more of the Palo Alto shuttle or creating
signage such as you see here that just says how long it will take someone to
ride a bike or walk to a certain location. In addition, we want to make sure
that teens know about this grant program, that there is funding available for
them if they have an idea that they want to see come to fruition. We want
to brand the program and really promote and need some funding to do so.
We want to continue to do outreach to the teens, to test ideas that we have
for spending down the reserve. We realize that the reserve is one-time
funding and so we have some things kind of marinating in our brains that we
want to test with our teen audience. Finally, we definitely want to develop a
more sustainable staffing model. We realize that the originally
recommended staffing model of part-time unbenefited Staff was problematic
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for a variety of reasons. The Recreation Division had to recruit three times
before finding the current, awesome Staff member, Jose. The Art Center
had similar problems finding a quality person. There's just additional
challenges of making sure that this highly impactful, very visible position is
up to speed, can fulfill the duties of the job. The Library was never able to
find a qualified candidate and eventually turned their only program to CSD
to manage. As you can imagine, this is a demanding and rewarding job. If
we want to continue to invest in the grant program and expand it, we also
need to consider investing in the Staff that support it. With that, I'm going
to turn it over to Rob for some closing remarks.
Mr. de Geus: I want to say thank you to the Council Members and to the
Staff that presented. I think they're doing really impactful work. Thank you
to the teens that came out and participated in this. This is great stuff. I
think what I appreciate most about the program is that we're trying to
intentionally focus on putting teens either in front of or at minimum
alongside caring adults so they can follow their passion. One of the things
that helps guide us is—we talked about the developmental assets. That's
something that the Council's approved as a focus and an approach to youth
developmental and the School District has and the YMCA has. It's a
common language that we use. It reminded me of something that was
written in a book by Peter Benson. Peter Benson started the Search
Institute where the assets were developed. He's written a number of books,
but he's written on sparks. This is written for parents; I have two teens and
so I'm always reading stuff about that. Of course, we in CSD do a lot of
work with youth and teens. I'm always trying to think about how we can do
better and how we align our work across the different program areas. The
idea of finding the spark in a young person and then investing in that, I
think, is really a powerful thing. I just wanted to read how it defines sparks
here, Peter Benson. He says, "Sparks are the hidden flames in your kids
that light their fire, get them excited, taps into their true passions. Sparks
come from the gut. They motivate and inspire. They're authentic passions,
talents, assets, skills and dreams. Sparks can be musical, athletic,
intellectual, academic, relational, anything from playing the violin to
enjoying doing service. Sparks when they are known and acted on help
youth come to the life-changing insight that my life has purpose." I think
that's a really powerful thing, and that's what we're trying to do with all of
our youth programs in Community Services, certainly what we're trying to
do with the Bryant Street Garage Fund. With that, we'd be happy to answer
any questions.
Chair Burt: Thanks. We treaded some new ground tonight for Policy and
Services Committee. I have plenty of questions and comments. As a result,
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I want to let you guys go first. Anybody have anything or do you want me
to kick off some or what?
Council Member Wolbach: I have a couple of comments.
Council Member DuBois: I have a lot as well.
Council Member Wolbach: I have a couple of short comments but
(crosstalk).
Chair Burt: Great. Go right ahead.
Council Member Wolbach: Just a couple of comments. First, I'm glad to see
a helmet here with the motorized vehicle. As I think the only Member of the
City Council who rides a motorcycle frequently, I'm glad to see you're
putting safety first. Don't forget about gloves and boots and everything else
too. It comes with storage?
Male: (inaudible)
Council Member Wolbach: Excellent. Yeah, safety first, guys. Also, a
couple of the things that were mentioned in the presentation from your
surveys about things that might hold kids back or hold youth back from
involvement, whether it's a sense that it's too late to start something when
you're in high school. I think for adults, we hear that and we're like that's
insane or it's a couple of miles away and, as an adult, we're like, "So what?
That's not a long commute" or "I don't have time for it." I remember when I
was at Gunn, all of those held me back occasionally if not frequently. I
sympathize with that, but I think it's important for all of us adults to
remember that those really do feel like real barriers to a lot of youth. It's
important for us to do everything we can to provide the facilities and the
tools, but also the reminder that it's certainly not too late to start something
in high school. Two to four miles across town is not too far to go. Time is a
resource that's valuable, but worth investing in new opportunities. Failure is
a sign that you're courageous, not that you're a failure because you tried
something. You have guts. Those are my comments for now.
Chair Burt: Tom.
Council Member DuBois: I'm concerned about the fusion reactor. Also, I
don't think we said it, but apologies for being late beginning the meeting
here. I had a combination of mostly questions and comments. This was
quite a thick packet for Policy and Services. There was some repetition, but
I actually did read through it. I'm curious what other cities are doing. Are
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there other innovative examples? When you guys were looking at how to
spend this money, did you see things other cities were doing?
Ms. Kortsen: Yeah. We know some cities that have digital art studios. Like
in San Jose, they have a really popular digital art studio recording program.
A lot of those youth have gone on to launch albums and movies and all that
stuff. In addition, we've seen—what's that in San Leandro? Is that
(inaudible)?
Mr. de Geus: Yes, the Ashland Community (inaudible).
Ms. Kortsen: The Ashland Community Center has a variety of programs that
support the whole person. It's not just recreation, but they have a fitness
facility, they have gymnasiums, they have arts programs, they have mental
health support, all sorts of things like that. Those are the two that come to
mind immediately.
Council Member DuBois: I would say even worldwide, not just the Bay Area.
I'm just curious if we looked at that. In terms of—I guess the topic for
tonight is kind of funding and planning for the funding. Have you guys
talked about explicit goals in terms of number of teens engaged? Do you
have other goals like, the things that came to mind were the number of
adult mentors. Is that part of the goals? Also, I guess age engagement, are
you looking at a range from middle school to high school or is it all high
school?
Mr. de Geus: It's a little more focused on high school. I think that's an area
where we see the biggest gap. There's a lot of activities for middle schools.
We're certainly focused on that. In terms of goals, we're trying to reach—
we're trying to get a really diverse range of teens participating. Just like us
adults, the teens have different passions and different interests. We want to
make it easy for any teen to come forward and let us know what they want
to try and figure out how we can help them do that.
Council Member DuBois: You had a lot of metrics. I liked how many teens
reached. I think that makes a lot of sense. Financially, is it to make
revenue match expenses on a yearly basis? Is that a goal?
Mr. de Geus: It is a current goal. The lease for 455 Bryant Street generates
a certain amount, and we've been focused on spending no more than that.
We have the reserve that we still need to think how best to fund. The good
news is the lease revenue is going up, so that's growing. That creates
opportunity. Back to the measurement. The developmental assets is a
piece certainly that we look at and measure against a lot. We have teens
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that are filling out questionnaires related to those assets before they
participate and then after to see if we're building assets.
Council Member DuBois: Also just reading through this, I had a question like
are we leveraging area resources. I don't know, has there been any attempt
to reach out to the Stanford School of Education in terms of getting people
involved or is this really more focused to be teen-led, teen-driven?
Mr. de Geus: Teen-led, teen-driven. We really looked back to the Youth
Master Plan which is ready for an update. It's over a decade old. It's still
really relevant actually in terms of its goals. It was discussed with the Youth
Council at that time whether to give up that Teen Center (inaudible) or not.
It was very specific, and it's in the Plan that the monies are for programs for
teens, by teens. It was very much focused there, so we built the program
around that.
Ms. Kortsen: Within the individual programs, we occasionally need to reach
out to the business community or to our nonprofit partners to get support,
depending on what they want to see happen. It's like clickPA, we're
partnering with Microsoft. William with Project Enybody partnered with the
Chamber of Commerce and the Palo Alto Medical Foundation. Within the
individual projects, we do reach out as needed.
Ms. Kienzle: Along those lines, for the initial kind of setup of MakeX, it
involved actually tours to maker spaces all over the Bay Area. The Born Lab
at Castilleja, the Fab Lab at Stanford School of Education, the Crucible,
IDEO. It was really an opportunity too for the teens to kind of see what's
out there. That was really the foundation from which they created their own
space.
Council Member DuBois: I just didn't—go ahead.
Mr. de Geus: I should add too that's a really good question, Council Member
DuBois, about the outreach and the rest of the community and even the
business community. Chair Burt has asked a similar question. How do they
start engaging with this program? I think there's a lot of opportunity there.
It's a little bit like a startup; we're still trying to sort of figure it out. We
thought initially it would be with hourly Staff and then teens working there.
That's worked really well in one area, but not in other areas. How do we
rethink that with the staffing model or for a partnership model with
businesses being the mentor for the teens potentially, as an example.
Council Member DuBois: It also struck me that the connections to ROPES
Project, I don't know if they're aware, if you promote to them. A student
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could actually submit an event as their ROPES project and have a goal of
engaging more teens. Again, that's eighth grade. I did notice the Youth
Master Plan was a little out of date, but there were still a lot of good ideas in
there. The world's changed a lot since then too. I did have a question of is
it worth spending the time to update the Plan or do you want to have a bias
for action and start doing things? You could spend all your time planning
and updating the Plan. Again, it is a little old. One other reaction I had on
the branding and spending money on branding was why not have the teens
do the branding as a project.
Mr. de Geus: Absolutely, right.
Ms. Gaboury: I think (inaudible) to the branding is that the focus isn't just
on the activity of branding. The branding speaks to a bit of your question of
what our goal is. In terms of less about the specific number of teens and
more that we make sure the project is available to all teens. Part of the
branding is that we make sure that all teens know about the project. That's
definitely our goal, that every teen knows that they have that resource and
that they can feel like it's easily accessible to them.
Council Member DuBois: I just thought it was an area that the kids could
get really creative. Maybe money is not what's needed; it's just ideas on
how to do that. Also I guess part of the branding is, is Bryant Street Garage
Fund still a relevant name.
Ms. Gaboury: That's been brought up in the meeting.
Council Member DuBois: I was trying to follow the finances, and they were
spread out a little bit. I think in the current budget there was time for, at
some point it said like three hourly people. I was trying to follow up with is
the money that was spent on those three almost equivalent to the one FTE.
Is that right or wrong?
Mr. de Geus: Originally we were planning a budget around $84,000 with
$20,000 in three locations with three hourlies being paid $20,000 annually.
The remainder would be split three ways for supplies, materials, contract
services, things like that. A full-time Program Assistant—if that is something
that we end up thinking is the right thing to do among all the other potential
needs that the department has and the City has, and we're not really there
yet—is I think $108,000 or somewhere around there. It's higher than 84.
Council Member DuBois: It's fully loaded, right?
Mr. de Geus: Yeah, that's a fully loaded, benefited person.
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Council Member DuBois: That 60 would be replaced by that?
Mr. de Geus: As we looked at it, just as an initial sort of review of how we
might fund that, the thinking is we need to find a way to fund it. To just
come forward hoping that we can fund it out of the General Fund is unlikely.
Take some portion, maybe 50 percent of the annual revenues that come
from the lease toward a full-time position plus temporary salaries that we
would then save having positions at the Teen Center to help fund a position,
and then the remainder, support from the General Fund to cover it. Again,
we're still sort of evaluating it. I will say that it's very much about
relationships, the grant program in particular, having Staff that stay for a
while and there's not turnover. It works because if you have good people, it
works. You don't and it doesn't.
Council Member DuBois: It looked in the FY '17—I'm just trying to find it.
You're still planning to have grant money, right? I guess I didn't see it in
the total, but I assume it's still there.
Mr. de Geus: We definitely would have grant money to support the position,
so that the teens can actually access some funds and get things off the
ground.
Council Member DuBois: I had a question too about kind of the ongoing
projects versus one-time projects and how you balance that. I guess once
you have a lot of ongoing projects, you've kind of committed your grant
money for the year in a way. How do you trade off how many one-time
projects you want to do?
Mr. de Geus: It's another area of discussion among the teens. As things are
successful particularly a grant program, MakeX is an example, ClickPA is
another one. These are so successful they're not only staying around, but
they're growing. They have great opportunity to grow. This fund isn't
endless, so how do we continue to support that? You can see what could
happen is that we end up having two (inaudible) let's just say seven great
programs that develop like that, then it ends up taking all the money and
there isn't money for new things or for teens that want to try something.
That's a challenge we need to figure out. We don't have an answer for that
yet.
Council Member DuBois: Have you had an ongoing program survive the
high school graduation of the founders?
Ms. Kortsen: ClickPA, yeah. Then MakeX, a lot of them are graduating.
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Council Member DuBois: On the shuttle idea, it was also kind of striking
that—first of all, it was more than transportation. It was a fun shuttle, a lot
of customization. The next paragraph it says the Palo Alto shuttle stops
running in the hours that the teen shuttle will be needed primarily, a lot of
it. It seemed really obvious could you do some kind of customization where
you turn the existing shuttles, you flip them into teen mode. Maybe the
decorations could be taken in and out, the karaoke machines brought into
the shuttle.
Ms. Kortsen: We had a lot of (crosstalk).
Ms. Kienzle: (crosstalk) over here at our (inaudible).
Council Member DuBois: Again, you don't have to buy a new shuttle which
is a big expense. You have these shuttles that aren't being used on the
weekends or in the evening.
Mr. de Geus: We completely agree. We think there's an opportunity with
the existing shuttle program that can better serve the teens. We also think
that this barrier to being able to ride back and forth is actually not merely as
much of a barrier as maybe what the kids think. Council Member Burt
knows just because he rides a lot, it's very rideable, Palo Alto. We've got
several great boulevards. If we invest in some marketing around that with
the teens, then we will see a change in perception.
Chair Burt: My standard line now is I might have driven it if I had time.
Council Member DuBois: My understanding is it was like 15 teens that
participated in those prototypes. How much weight do we give to those
ideas versus doing some more focus groups? Again, it looks like the ideas
have changed over the years. Some of the earlier things I saw were ski
trips and dances. The newer things are the shuttle and the app challenge
thing. I did have a question of how much weight do we give to the initial
prototyping session you guys went through? For instance (crosstalk).
Chair Burt: Tom, I don't know if you saw, but in 2014 we had a survey of
541 folks. For the 2015 one we had, if I understood it right, like 15. Out of
that 15 was where the shuttle emerged. It wasn't out of the 500.
Ms. Kortsen: The survey, actually 25 percent of those that took the survey
identified transportation as a barrier to participating in programs in Palo
Alto. That's where we initially were like, "That's an issue."
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Council Member DuBois: You sent the survey to (crosstalk).
Ms. Kortsen: So we'd bring it up in the interviews.
Chair Burt: Yeah, I would love to see that focus group and understand why
the bike doesn't work. I just don't get it.
Council Member DuBois: I was going to go the other way, which was to
caution of relying on Planning and Transportation, because it didn't seem to
be about transportation, it seemed to be about a fun mode. A lot of it
seemed to be more about having this kind of teen-centric transport, not just
getting on a shuttle.
Ms. Gaboury: Engagement, it's basically about engagement.
Council Member DuBois: I guess I've talked quite a bit, so I will stop there.
Chair Burt: Marc.
Council Member Berman: First of all, thank you guys all so much. Thank
you to Staff for the work that you guys have done. Thank you to all the
teens that came tonight to kind of show off what—I lost her—you guys have
been working on. You guys described the grants program as kind of an
incubator-type thing. You guys all know that the owners of the incubators
take a percent of equity, right? Have we worked that out? Do you have a
funding opportunity? This is awesome. Midway through the presentation,
you guys brought up the developmental assets, but that was the first thing
that came to my mind when you guys were all presenting and telling us
other things that you guys are working on and the fact that you're working
with students who are younger than you. You're mentoring them and
providing a really good example to them. Having grown up in Palo Alto like
Cory, I remember students that were just two or three years older than I
that when I was a third grader and they were a sixth grader, that's a big
deal. They'd kind of look out for me and just show me the way on
something. That's something that really sticks with you as get older, the
opportunity that you guys are having to work with adults in the community.
I was really excited to see the kind of poll results on some of those
questions, because I think that's incredibly important. If it's something
genuine around something that you guys are really passionate about, I think
that's a great opportunity. A couple of questions that I had. It looks like
you guys are talking about increasing the funding—using the reserve to
increase the funding about 25K for the grants program, taking that from 18K
to 43K approximately, which I think is great, because it seems like it's really
yielded a lot of good results. How many people have applied for grants?
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That might have been deeper in here that I didn't get to, but I didn't see it.
Approximately, I don't need an exact number. How many folks ...
Mr. de Geus: (crosstalk)
Ms. Kortsen: No, we have—we generally don't deny. What we do is we
work with them to massage their proposal (crosstalk) until it's approvable.
Council Member Berman: I saw that, Staff, which is great.
Ms. Kortsen: We haven't denied anybody.
Council Member Berman: To what extent is there interest amongst the
teens, and to what extent would it work, to have teens be involved in that
approval process? I noticed that right now it's mostly City Staff or all City
Staff that evaluates the proposals. Would that make sense? Maybe I ought
to start out there as an idea, not necessarily something that you guys have
to reply to tonight, but something to consider.
Ms. Kortsen: Our initial idea when we first were creating the grant program
or wanting to pilot it is that the potential Teen Council would serve as kind of
the approval committee with the Teen Services Committee supporting it.
That Palo Alto Teen Council doesn't meet in the summertime and they're
working on significant things during the school year, so we've had to pivot
from that a little bit. It's still something that I think would be valuable
(crosstalk) if we invite some of the teens to come onboard.
Council Member Berman: If it works, great. I was also excited to see that
your initial assumptions were that a lot of the proposals would come from
the organized groups in town, but that hasn't been the case, which I think is
great because it means that we're pulling in teens that aren't necessarily
already involved which is really great. Transition plans. You mentioned that
there are a lot of seniors currently involved. Do you guys have plans like at
the different programs to transition this on to freshmen or sophomores or
juniors or whatever the case may be? It seems like this has definitely been
really positive. I'm getting a lot of head nods, so I'm guessing yeah.
Mr. Zhao: Our current board is around 20 Gunn and Paly members. We
recently finished recruiting for the new year and a large focus—obviously I'm
graduating next year—has been looking to recruit underclassmen. We
currently finished elections, so our vice president for this year is a junior.
When I go on, we'll have another person to take over. I definitely this year
tried to give a lot more—just kind of take a step back and let my group do
more of the work so that when I'm gone it can still sustain and run itself.
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Council Member Berman: Having just transitioned out of a job, that's smart,
or else you get a lot phone calls once you leave asking you a lot of
questions.
Chair Burt: This is Project Enybody?
Mr. Zhao: Project Enybody.
Council Member Berman: I guess one comment. I had a couple of
questions that I might remember as we go on. I was really sad to hear that
this whole failure is not an option mentality. If you think about it, you guys
know Silicon Valley was built on failure and it was built on a willingness to
try something out and fail or try something out and not get it perfect at first
and iterate and make it better. That's in our blood. That's who we are. If
you ask anybody who's been successful in Silicon Valley, I guarantee you
they can show you five times where they failed before they got where they
are. You guys clearly who are here today aren't afraid of failure. That's why
you tried the thing that you tried. Make sure to remind your classmates and
peers that failing is half the fun of life. It's not permanent, so don't be afraid
to throw yourself out there at some point without a safety net. That's when
the coolest things might happen. You guys aren't necessarily looking for
approval from us on anything tonight. This is an update and giving us a
heads up on what you guys are going to probably be proposing for the 2017
budget.
Mr. de Geus: Correct.
Chair Burt: We're supposed to give feedback as well.
Council Member Berman: Yes, yes. The feedback that I would give, I
guess, at this stage—I'm just looking for that part of the Staff Report—is I'm
glad to see that you guys are increasing the amount for grants. I think that
seems good. I'm not surprised at all by the report back in terms of staffing.
I think we found a similar problem with Project Safety Net. To the extent
that we can have a further conversation about that and see. I don't know
what would work for—is this a program that needs a full-time Staff member?
Would a half FTE or three-quarters FTE be sufficient? Just things to consider
and that we can talk about. If it needs a full-time FTE, don't be afraid to say
that. I'm just trying to figure out ways that we can do something that's
sustainable and that won't eat up the entire reserve on that. I think the idea
of getting students involved in the marketing campaign is great. That's
pretty much the comments that I have for now. Thank you guys.
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Chair Burt: Let's see. I have a few things. One is when I was looking at
the survey from 2014, some of it resonated to the survey that went all the
way back to when essentially the Bryant Street Garage Fund was created.
For those who don't know, it was created on paper, and it didn't exist for
what? About eight years. Essentially my wife found it under a rug. Some of
you may know her, Sally Bemus who had helped started clickPA and a
couple of other things. She was bugging me why we can't have a Teen
Center Downtown. Our teens had said, "That's what we'd like." We had a
Teen Center Downtown a decade ago. It's where the Bryant Street garage
was built, so there's an agreement that the funds from this commercial part
of it would go back into teens. The teen group at the time—I'd like to go
back and kind of re-look at who was surveyed and how we came up with
whatever we did. Basically that group said that they'd prefer not to have
another permanent location Downtown. This was a place Downtown that
was a complete teen hangout, open Friday and Saturday all day and Sunday
in the afternoons, and had up to 175 kids a day attending. It was a pretty
good success when it happened. When the garage opened, initially there
wasn't any positive revenue to go into the fund. For several years, it got
forgotten about. When we started digging into it, we found that there was a
pile of cash accumulating on the books somewhere. That's how we got it
back going a couple of years ago. One of the things that I saw was out of
last year's survey a lot of interest for—the descriptors were things like self-
directed, socialization and verbiage like that that basically sounds to me like
teens being able to hang out and not have highly structured time and have
fun. I want to make sure that we're looking for those opportunities. The
Mitchell Teen Center was conceived of as a place where a lot of that would
go on. I don't think we've hit a rhythm on that yet. It's called The Hangout,
but it's not where teens go to hangout. When I go by there, it's not packed.
Do we have the additional staffing onboard yet?
Ms. Kortsen: We received the funding, but we've had difficulties recruiting
quality Staff to fill those positions. We've recently made a couple offers, so
they're going through that process right now, the fingerprinting,
backgrounds checks, things like that. We hope to open up on the weekends
by the end of this month. It was a significant challenge of just getting
quality people to apply. We had to work through those.
Ms. Gaboury: Just if I could add?
Chair Burt: Yeah.
Ms. Gaboury: Also, another thing we've done is we've been collaborating
with the other existing teen groups. The Teen Arts Council is going to be
taking sort of more and more of those nights on themselves. In addition to
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their Wednesday night meetings, they're holding open mike nights, they're
holding movie nights. We're using existing resources to fill up that time.
Chair Burt: Stuff like open mike and that, that sounds like a real natural.
Ms. Gaboury: The teens are really excited to be there and do those things.
That's already happening.
Chair Burt: Now are we still charging a $25 fee for teens to be able to use
the hangout?
Mr. de Geus: I don't believe so.
Ms. Kortsen: No.
Chair Burt: It's still on the website I think.
Mr. de Geus: Is it?
Chair Burt: Yep, I think so.
Mr. de Geus: We'll have to fix that, because we (crosstalk).
Chair Burt: Good, glad to hear it. Kind of along the lines of having space
where we've got the open mike, but what I really liked is this concept of a
digital art studio. Is that being conceived of for Mitchell or where would it be
located or has that been figured out?
Ms. Kortsen: That is just an idea right now. We're still in the exploration
phase. We wanted to check that out with teens, see if that's what they
really felt was needed. I know the initial feedback we received is that
there's a couple other places in Palo Alto that already offer similar programs.
Again, we're still exploring to see how ours might be different, how we could
fill in gaps without duplicating services that are already being provided.
Mr. de Geus: I think there's more work we need to do there. This is the
feedback I've heard from the Director of the Children's Theatre, Judge
Lackey, as well who's very obviously supportive of the performing arts in
Paly and their theater program. There are some pretty nice assets already
in town. He didn't think that was necessarily something that we would do or
need to invest in. It's something we're looking at.
Chair Burt: The kids I've known who were doing their own music, it's
different to taking classes at school and going to a place where you can
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drop-in and do your own thing. I think it's real appealing. When we look on
the movie side, you could have both those things integrated. One of the
concerns I've had about Mitchell Park Community Center—I want to say that
because we've got a bunch of these rooms that are just great rooms at the,
I'll call it the southwest end of that. They're primarily rented out for income.
I haven't understood how we morphed into spending tens of millions of
dollars on a community center so that we could rent them out to private
parties for income. At first, I thought maybe that income is going to
Community Services to fund other stuff, but it goes to the General Fund. I
don't understand why there's been this pride in getting all this revenue
return for those rooms, rather than really making them available for youth
and things like that, whether it's a recording studio or whatever stuff. We
have the maker space over at Cubberley, and I had been asking why isn't it
there. That would really make the Teen Center have this synergy between—
if you had a recording studio or a digital arts studio and a maker space and
the Teen Center. That place would be a beehive, I would think. Instead
we're using these great new rooms to rent them out to private parties.
Mr. de Geus: The Mitchell Park Community Center hasn't been open a year
yet, so we're still learning a lot about the use of it. I think you'd be
surprised to learn who's using it. It's not primarily sort of private, for-profit
groups. There's a lot of community groups that use it and meetings of Staff
across the City are using it for classes and programs. I think that's actually
the majority of use. The revenues generally come in from the bigger events
that happen on weekends. It's a very popular space for weddings and life
events.
Chair Burt: I'd still question we ought to be pushing the maker space off to
Cubberley in a real limited space, or having that and this potential digital art
studio right there at the community center. That's, to me, what a
community center is. Give them the good, quality space. If somebody
wants to rent a room at Cubberley, let them to do that. When we as a
community committed those tens of millions of dollars, it wasn't to rent it
out.
Mr. de Geus: Those rooms were designed to be flexible spaces, so they
could be used for (crosstalk).
Chair Burt: Flexible is great; although, part of flexibility might be
recognizing when we put that ballot initiative, nobody was talking about
maker space. There's flexibility, responding to emerging interests and
trends that the kids have and adapting to that . I'd say that's flexible as
opposed to rotating within a week. I want to see more discussion come
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back on how to utilize those. You guys know those rooms. How would you
feel if you had those available?
Mr. Ji: I actually use the rooms a lot for (inaudible) programs and Palo Alto
Youth Council. I really like the spaces. I think it'd be really interesting to
move maker space, for example, or any of the other youth-involved
programs into the Mitchell Park Community Center. The Bryant Street
Garage that you mentioned that used to be here had up to 175 teens up
there. I think that adding some facilities that like interest different groups of
teens would definitely attract different groups of like teens (inaudible)
myself. We could have artsy things going on, maybe theater. We could use
the big rooms for presenting things or maybe we could have activities going
on with the soccer fields or outside or maybe some kind of sportsy thing
using the basketball courts, etc.
Chair Burt: I can see once you're all there, you might float from one thing
to another.
Ms. Kortsen: There's something I want to say on that. We do have over 30
classes that we offer for all ages through the Community Services
Department, from the Art Center, Children's Theatre, from the Recreation
Division. In addition we did tour the Oak Room, one of the rooms at Mitchell
Park Community Center with the MakeX group, with a couple of the mentors
and offered it up to them as an option. For the summer, they could have it
completely on their own. They actually preferred the Cubberley space,
because it's their room, they get to keep all their stuff out there. They have
a lot of bulky equipment. It's just they felt that that was a better space for
them at that time. It is definitely something that I'm interested in exploring,
even if it's just a portion of the program coming over to the Mitchell Park
Teen Center. I think there's a lot of synergy there.
Chair Burt: What I just heard you say there is that part of what they cared
about was not being itinerant there, where they came for the summer and
could take half their stuff or whatever. I think it may be that doing it
halfway wouldn't work very well. I'm not sure what the answers are, but I
think a starting point needs to be that those community rooms around the
Teen Center should be reconsidered in how to make best use of them. I'm
not saying I know what that would be, but I think we should have a real
open discussion with the teen community. If they weren't handcuffed by
saying, "You could only do this much. What would you value on these?" To
experiment some on this too.
Ms. Kortsen: If it was up to me, I'd have the entire facility be for teens.
Unfortunately, we hear from all ages all the time. Seniors wish that they
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had a room that was dedicated to them for their table tennis all day every
day, for bridge playing and things like that. We hear the feedback from
everybody at all times. We have heard the specific feedback that too much
stuff here is for teens, there's a teen place in the library, there's a teen
center in the Mitchell Park Community Center, everything's for teens, what
about for adults, what about for my young child, what's at this community
center that's supposed to represent the entire community, what is there for
me.
Chair Burt: I'm all fine with that. I just want to make sure that we're not
using these rooms for income purposes principally.
Ms. Gaboury: I think we can speak to it also that when we've needed to use
the space at Mitchell Park, it's been very much available to our teens who
need it and also to the grant program teens. Many of the granted activities
have taken place at Mitchell Park. That idea that there be these projects
that are about unplanned and low pressure kind of things that came from
that 500-person survey is a lot of what led to this grant program, so that
they could just come up with an idea, that it could be about the bowling and
the pizza, and that we give them a space which has really been available at
Mitchell Park.
Mr. de Geus: In the process for renting out those rooms, we do have sort of
a hierarchy of who goes first. It is all of our programs first, recreation
program, arts, CSD programs, Citywide programs, our nonprofit partners
that are working here, and then those that need to rent space.
Mr. Ji: I just to say that for the other Bryant Street Garage programs that
work with Jose, we've all been able to use that space really efficiently. I've
run my car bowl in the courtyard at Mitchell Park Community Center. Will
ran his Green Fest also in the courtyard. I think the Usher movie was also
held there. I think that being able to use this space for Bryant Street
Garage is already really helpful. I just think that maybe we don't need to
bash a little bit about not being able to use it for teens. I think that we just
need more teens to understand that this space can be used for them.
Chair Burt: This digital recording, what's the next steps on exploring that?
Mr. de Geus: I think we need to talk to more students, more teens and
enlist Marieke and Judge Lackey on this topic, talk with the School District
and really understand the sort of inventory of digital spaces that are around.
I do agree that having a space outside of the school actually can be really
powerful and much more fun and interesting for teens. It's something that's
still on the table. We just need to understand more. We need more data.
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Chair Burt: Tom was mentioning kind of looking at other best practices and
not just thinking about locally. It made me think about we have three great
Sister Cities that I know have really strong teen programs in Sweden and
Netherlands and Germany. They have really great teen programs. We're
always looking for ways that we can share best practices. They might be a
great resource on that. They love to collaborate. I mean they've wanted to
collaborate with us and offered things that we haven't taken advantage of.
Mr. de Geus: It was terrific seeing the delegation of Enschede here just the
other week. We've connected with them on Project Safety Net, because
they've had some issues around teen suicide in their community. Thank you
for that suggestion.
Chair Burt: I agree that the Bryant Street Garage is not the greatest name,
but why don't we just drop Bryant Street and just call it the Garage Fund.
That's a little edgier. I don't know what the teens would feel about it, but
it's wouldn't be a radical departure. It's still coming from the garage.
Council Member Wolbach: It could be your garage band or your garage
startup.
Chair Burt: Yeah, that's right.
Mr. de Geus: I think we should let the teens name it.
Council Member DuBois: (inaudible) teen center or something like that.
Chair Burt: On this transportation issue, I guess I need to—I don't
necessarily need to know tonight—understand if you're waiting for a shuttle,
I don't know how long it takes. Unless you're lugging around a big amp, you
can get pretty much anywhere in the City in maximum of 15 minutes by
bike, then you can go wherever you want whenever you want. It was really
interesting that sign that I thought, "Wow, I haven't seen that. That's a
really cool sign." It answers the question of why didn't we think of just
getting on a bike and riding wherever we want to go.
Ms. Gaboury: I think the piece to keep in mind about that is the
engagement piece. You can get on a bike and you can do that, but a lot of
what we've been talking about is how to get the kids who aren't already
doing it. This piece that actually draws them into something and provides
something. A lot of this is about when we talked to our teens in the Teen
Arts Council and we said, "What would you want?" They said, "We want
something on a Friday night that maybe goes to 10:00 or 11:00 at night,
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that doesn't have any middle school kids." Sometimes that isn't the best
time to ride a bike through the streets or in the winter. We're looking for
something that actually becomes part of the fund and actually is an activity
in itself, I think is the idea of the shuttle, that really incentivizes as opposed
to just facilitates.
Council Member DuBois: (crosstalk) party bus.
Chair Burt: When I'd heard this issue, at first I thought, "Let's adjust our
shuttles." The more I thought about it, the less I became convinced of that.
As far as the riding in winter, we have our Sister Cities that have up to 50
percent of their transportation by bike. Their line is there's no such thing as
bad weather, just bad clothing. Anyway, we'll see. The other thing about
how to staff things. I want to make sure that as many of the dollars go to
teen-directed programs as possible. As great as our Staff is, I'm real
hesitant about shifting too much of this fund toward a permanent Staff
position. This goes into kind of my final point is how do we leverage our
resources. Talking about on the MakeX space on potential corporate
sponsors for equipment, we think about companies in town that are just
engaged in this kind of stuff. We have IDEO, we have other design
companies in town that are really renowned. We now have the Global
Playground that is this huge incubator of hardware, and a bunch of other big
companies, I think, would gladly just help this maker space and give a lot of
resources. The other thing too is if you're looking at staffing it, I'm not sure
that we couldn't have volunteer staffers that would cover a lot of that
staffing for the maker space. One of the things that I thought was great,
that I learned tonight, is the kids don't feel like they need the adult mentors
there. They're teen mentors to younger teen mentors. That's fantastic. I
don't want us to get in their way, but be there for—of course, we have to
have some kind of adults around for whatever kind of emergency and those
kinds of things or whatever is needed. I'd like to see us look at doing more
of that. Rob and I have talked about the youth collaborative that was doing
a lot on just having chaperones be there in the background for whatever
youth dances or events and things like that. If we had to hire Staff to do all
that, we could never do it.
Council Member DuBois: Could I comment on that?
Chair Burt: Yeah.
Council Member DuBois: I heard what you said about retaining good people
when you have them. It sounds like you have a good person that you want
to retain. I think I disagree with Pat on that, just in terms of keeping that
program going. One thought I did have though; I don't know if you've
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looked at does it have to be City Staff or could it be an independent kind of
contractor. I don't know if that's an option
Mr. de Geus: We're looking at all options. It does take time and sort of a
caring adult. Even with the program that you're talking about, Chair Burt,
where we're connecting with businesses and others, I can see that
potentially working, but someone needs to manage that and create those
relationships and build them.
Chair Burt: The youth collaborative didn't have basically Staff management.
It was a whole bunch of volunteers that made a lot of stuff happen. When
we had the success report of Project Safety Net two years ago that came
before the Council, the vast majority of the things listed as successes came
out of the youth collaborative. Then it was disbanded. We could talk more
about this as a follow-up. I'm not convinced that the only way for us to be
able to have resources is additional full-time Staff. I'm not saying that's a
big part of the picture, but I think we tend to get into what is a mindset
within organizations that ...
Mr. de Geus: Always staff.
Chair Burt: Yeah, that's the way to do it. I think in some examples we've
dropped what we had in the past in terms of some great volunteer resources
that we're not presently taking advantage of.
Mr. de Geus: I was very close to the youth collaborative, and we had Staff
on there. We probably have a little bit of a different perspective on its
effectiveness. We certainly had our Staff on there that did a lot of those
programs that actually got them across the finish line. I would say that
some of the programs that we do with the grant, they're individual kids that
come and they just need someone to help them, get them across the line.
That's not always a volunteer or a business leader; it's a ...
Chair Burt: No, I didn't say always. I'm just saying that we want to strike
the right balance. I'm not sure we have the right balance now.
Ms. Kortsen: I did also want to clarify that the MakeX program is very
unique in that they are kind of a self-run, self-contained, great success.
Every single other Bryant Street Garage funded program needed that
mentorship for that idea to be massaged and given direction and come to
life. Every single other program. They needed significant (crosstalk).
Chair Burt: I think our Staff in this area is great. I don't think Staff is the
only way to do this.
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Mr. de Geus: We agree with you there. We will look at all options. I guess
we're a little sort of hesitant because it's growing, and it's growing fast. We
can see it getting bigger. If we want to fund more grant programs, we're
sort of at capacity in terms of our ability, so we have to find another ...
Chair Burt: That's right. What I would say is step back and maybe think a
little differently, not just we scale it, we add more Staff. That's what we do.
Maybe that is the right thing to do, but I don't think it should be the only
thing considered.
Council Member DuBois: One last comment. I think we should watch the
clock; we have some other items. I would rather see you guys spend the
money, spend it well, but I don't think it sitting in a reserve is doing
anybody any good. That would be my comment, to spend some more time
planning, but let's figure out how to get moving.
Chair Burt: Cory, you had something else?
Council Member Wolbach: Maybe I was missing it. It looked like your Fiscal
Year 2015 expenses, you said it was about 115 grand. 2016 revenue was
only 108 or round up to 109,000.
Mr. de Geus: I think the 115,000 for '16 includes, I think, $20,000 in
contingency for those things that may still come up before the end of the
year that we want to invest in. We'll bring back ...
Ms. Kortsen: (inaudible) funds.
Mr. de Geus: We had some unspent funds from 2015 that rolled forward.
Council Member Wolbach: The reserves, there's not a lot going into the
reserves currently.
Mr. de Geus: it's whatever we don't spend the year prior.
Council Member Wolbach: That's all it is. It's just (crosstalk).
Mr. de Geus: We keep it; it doesn't just return to the General Fund. We feel
some sense of urgency about spending it too, because kids are growing up
and they don't get to take advantage of it. If they could take advantage of a
digital studio and that's what they want, let's build it.
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Council Member Wolbach: I guess what I'm kind of getting at is—actually I
did notice that some of the things you were highlighting is potential ways to
spend the reserves were things that would have lasting value. Of course, we
never want to get in the habit of spending one-time funds or reserve funds
for ongoing expenses. We want to think sustainably, both about how we
grow the program so that we can support what seems to be something
growing in popularity whether through Staff or volunteers or possibly
through both. I also want to have that same mentality, planning to be
sustainable in our funding. I think Council Member Berman earlier alluded to
if you need more funds at some point or you think you need more funds, at
least don't be afraid to consider that or talk about it. If it's a valuable
program, it's worth supporting. If we, it can be self-funded and self-
contained, that's great. It's just kind of like performance goals and
performance metrics. I think it might be useful to continue to think more
about things like you talked about diversity of engagement, so diversity of
young people engaging, also the number of participants and also the number
of adult mentors as appropriate. I do think that there is a lot of opportunity
for people in the community to serve as mentors. On looking for nonprofit
partners, looking for mentors, looking for corporate partners, fundraising,
things like that, those might be things where the students might want to do
that themselves, have somebody mentor them, how to do a fundraising
pitch or something like that. I understand Council Member Berman has lots
of free time and has some experience in fundraising.
Council Member Berman: Always happy to help.
Council Member Wolbach: Sorry to volunteer you. I'm joking with Marc, but
in general that might be one more way that the students, as they continue
to be the leaders of this, can build upon what's already there. This question
about what stands in the way of young people biking across town, what
stands in the way of a kid from south Palo Alto going to something
Downtown, just speaking to my experience, it was a couple of decades ago
at this point, but I think it's really about psychological and social barriers,
not about physical and weather barriers. The more that we can do, whether
it's signage or communication, encouragement, all of the above, and of
course our continuing investment as a City in our bike and pedestrian
planning to remove those psychological and social barriers to biking across
town and otherwise getting across town are really important.
Chair Burt: Thank you very much. Have you got the feedback you need?
Mr. de Geus: Yeah. Thank you for all that feedback. Very, very helpful.
We're going to continue to work on the program. We'll be back during the
budget season to talk a little more about it. I would say if you're interested
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in visiting the Mitchell Park Center during the afternoon when teens are
there or the MakeX maker space and talking to the teens just to get a better
sense of what's happening there, that'd be great for us. We can continue
the conversation.
Chair Burt: Great. Thanks and thanks to everybody who came.
Council Member Berman: Thank you.
Ms. Kortsen: Thank you.
NO ACTION TAKEN
3. Provide Direction Regarding Expanding Smoking Ordinance to Include
E-Cigarettes, Change Signage Language, and Include Additional
Enforcement Options, Restrict Sales of Tobacco, Direct Staff to Draft
Changes to Include Smoking Restrictions for Multi-Family Buildings,
and Direct Staff to Support Increasing the Age for Tobacco Sales.
Chair Burt: Let's go ahead and proceed on Item Number 3 which is to
provide direction regarding expanding the Smoking Ordinance to include e-
cigarettes, change signage language, include additional enforcement
options, restrict sales of tobacco, direct Staff to draft changes to include
smoking restrictions for multifamily buildings and direct Staff to support
increasing the age for tobacco sales. Those are all the subtopics tonight.
Ed Shikada, Assistant City Manager: (crosstalk) follow-up items based on
the prior Committee discussion. Kirsten, I'll hand it off to you.
Kirsten Struve, Environmental Control Program Manager: All right. Kirsten
Struve, Public Works. I wanted to introduce all the people that are here to
support this item. We have two Staff from the County, Jill Stephens and
Joyce Villalobos. They're from County Public Health Center for Chronic
Disease and Injury Prevention. We have Liz Williams, Project Manager for
Americans for Nonsmokers' Rights Foundation, and Professor Shick who is
an Assistant Professor of Medicine at UCSF. You had a lot of questions the
last time, so we thought we'd bring some experts, because I'm not it. Phil
Bobel will be joining us as well. We have our legal team. We'll have a brief
presentation, and it will be a presentation by both City Staff and the experts,
but the experts will then also be available for questions. In terms of the
outline, we'll talk a little about the background, the draft ordinance that was
Attachment A, tobacco retailer licensing, and then the response to your
questions from May on multifamily smoking restrictions, and our
recommendations. The background was that we were last here in May and
were directed to include e-cigarettes into the Smoking Ordinance. We
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presented the survey results on multifamily properties, and we discussed
potential restrictions of sales of tobacco products and retailer licensing.
We'll go through all those issues one-by-one. The draft ordinance is
attached. It now includes e-cigarettes anywhere tobacco is currently
banned. In addition, we made some minor changes to the signage language
and included two additional enforcement tools, because the current
ordinance has only a misdemeanor as an enforcement tool, so we're adding
administrative citations and infractions. On tobacco retailer licensing, you
directed us to pursue that. However, we found after internal coordination,
that it was not feasible with existing staffing levels. Our preferred approach
is to continue discussions with the County of Santa Clara. In San Mateo
County, the Public Health Department of San Mateo County administers
tobacco retailer licensing programs for its cities. We are discussing with
Santa Clara whether they could start something like that and us be the first
ones. The other options would be use of the Zoning Code; however, that
would have similar staffing concerns too, just having a tobacco retailer
licensing program. It's not used very often. Indoor smoking restrictions.
We'll address your questions. The first two related to engineered protections
to prevent migration of carcinogens and the cleaning processes that might
be used to convert residential units from smoking to nonsmoking and how
potentially harmful materials are transferred and in what amounts they
become dangerous. That's why we brought our experts. We'll start with
Professor Shick to talk about third-hand smoking and then Liz Williams will
talk specifically to these questions as well.
Suzaynn Shick: I'm told that you used the term environmental (crosstalk).
Chair Burt: Is the mike on? I think it has to be.
Ms. Shick: Terminology wise, environmental tobacco smoke, I refer to it as
secondhand smoke. It's semantic. It helps us distinguish what we are now
calling thirdhand cigarette smoke. Thirdhand cigarette smoke is relevant to
cleaning and also to exposure of people in both indoor and outdoor spaces.
Thirdhand cigarette smoke is essentially the semi (inaudible) organic
compound phase of cigarette smoke. Broken down, that means the tar and
the nicotine, both of which stick to surfaces much more rapidly than they are
removed by ventilation. In most places when you smoke, about 80 percent
of the nicotine from a cigarette stays in the room. It can also stick to
surfaces outdoors and also to people. That's the smell you smell on a
smoker, thirdhand cigarette smoke. Chemically, thirdhand smoke can
persist for months, days and years. It depends on which chemical, but that
fraction contains a lot of carcinogens. Once it sticks, it doesn't necessarily
stay stuck. Nicotine particularly is very—it has a vapor phase where it's
basically bouncing back and forth between surfaces and the air. You lay a
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thick coat of it onto a surface by smoking continuously in a building or in an
area, and you're providing a reservoir that will slowly re-emit for months and
often longer. Some of the other chemicals like (inaudible) carcinogens, the
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, the nitrosamines, those are basically there
permanently. They also absorb into surfaces, so they're very difficult to
clean and remove. Most water-based paints don't provide a very effective
barrier, so they get into wallboard. Finally, they're chemicals. You've just
put them into the environment and they're there reacting. My research has
shown that nicotine on surfaces reacts with normal, ambient air chemicals
like ozone to form NNK which is a carcinogen, a very, very toxic lung-specific
carcinogen. We're thinking now of secondhand smoke as being something
that's more durable than just being around someone who is smoking into the
air and you're breathing that. We're talking about something that's very
difficult to clean out of buildings, very difficult to remove from surfaces,
outdoors and indoors, a persistent environmental pollutant.
Elizabeth Williams: Thank you. I was asked to speak to your questions
regarding the deletion systems and whether they're effective at addressing
secondhand smoke exposure. There's consensus among public health
authorities, scientists, technicians and ventilation experts that ventilation
cannot eliminate the health risks that are associated with secondhand smoke
exposure. They agree that the only way to effectively reduce those health
risks is to eliminate the indoor smoking by taking it outside. If it's present in
the building, it cannot be effectively addressed through ventilation
technology. This is significant because in buildings, including multiunit
residences, research shows that the secondhand smoke can transfer
between individual units through common spaces, through ductwork, things
like that. Also because the US Surgeon General has shown that there's no
safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke, so even lower levels can be
harmful to health. Can we see the next slide please? In particular I wanted
to mention ASHRAE, the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-
Conditioning Engineers. They are an international standard setting body for
indoor air quality. They have been addressing this issue around secondhand
smoke for a number of years. In 2005, their board of directors unanimously
adopted a position document that stated that ventilation cannot eliminate
the health dangers exposed by secondhand smoke and that smoking does
not belong indoors. They based their standards for ventilation on a smoke
free indoor environment. As part of that earlier this year in January, they
amended their position document to state that not only are their ventilation
standards based on a smoke-free environment, but that it also now
considers marijuana smoke and e-cigarette emissions to be part of that
definition of indoor smoking. Their ventilation rates are based on not
allowing any of those three substances in a building. The third one, thank
you. As Dr. Shick mentioned, the thirdhand smoke is that sticky residue
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that just persists on the surfaces. It is very, very difficult to remove both in
terms of time and cost. In terms of the cleaning and renovation that
restoration companies and cleaning experts have told us in public health
that's required to adequately clean a unit that has been smoked in,
oftentimes they say lightly smoked in or heavily smoked in in terms of both
volume and duration that's been occurring in there. Some of those cleaning
processes that need to take place include stripping all furnishing, cleaning
the surfaces, walls, ceilings, floorboards under carpeting and such with
certain types of chemicals, and then using special sealants and then painting
at least three times with certain types of paint. If that's not done
adequately, the nicotine will reabsorb out of the walls and surfaces and drip
down walls, which is pretty intense. Then things like replacing the
carpeting, replacing the filters and cleaning the ductwork is necessary. If
there's been heavy smoking, because the thirdhand smoke can absorb so
deeply, oftentimes even the wallboard or fixtures need to be entirely
replaced. Due to both the time and the cost related to that, property
managers are often very supportive of making their buildings nonsmoking
because of those costs, as I stated.
Ms. Struve: You also had asked about what other cities are doing. The Staff
Report provides a link to a collection of various multifamily ordinances. They
really range in scope to covering some units, covering all units, covering
only common areas, exempting condos, delaying implementation for older
units but starting with new ...
Male: Somebody hit your mike, I think.
Ms. Struve: There is a large variety of what cities have done in terms of
multifamily ordinances. We took that into account when we performed our
survey during the spring. We did ask questions of occupants of multifamily
as well as landlords as to whether they would favor just a partial, a full ban
in all units, common areas, indoors, outdoors as well as whether condos
should be included. There was general support for all units, all common
areas and no distinction between condos and rentals. I did link the entire
list of ordinances. If there are more questions, our experts also know a lot
about what other cities have done. Another question was the possible legal
contradiction with medical marijuana law. Basically the State law says in it
that smoking marijuana is prohibited wherever tobacco smoke is banned.
Wherever Palo Alto's smoking restrictions place restrictions on tobacco
smoke, they would apply as well. Existing case law suggests that there is no
right under State law to be allowed to smoke even medicinal marijuana in a
housing complex. We could consider accommodation if that is something we
wanted to do as part of the ordinance. Phil, you wanted to do the
(inaudible).
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Phil Bobel, Public Works Assistant Director: Thanks. Many thanks to our
experts. We really appreciate them coming tonight. Phil Bobel, Public
Works. I'm just going to run over the recommendations. These are the
same as in the Staff Report; we've just repeated them in the slides. The
first two are on this slide. The first one recommends that we adopt
ordinance revisions that have three parts. This is Attachment A to the Staff
Report as well, the actual ordinance. This is the only one that we're
prepared to go forward with a actual ordinance revision at this time. It is
draft; it is Attachment A; and it does these three things. We're
recommending, of course, that you push this on to Council. The first is that
we include e-cigarettes in the definition of smoking, so that everywhere that
the ordinance refers to nonsmoking, you would not be able to smoke e-
cigarettes. We discussed this at the last meeting, and I think we didn't feel
this would be controversial for the four of you. The second is changing the
signing language just a bit to make it more flexible. We realize, frankly, that
some of the signs we had up didn't meet the strict definition that we've
currently put in the ordinance for signage, and we don't think there's any
negative aspect to increasing the flexibility on that a bit. That's all that one
does. Thirdly is providing an additional option for enforcement. Currently,
the formal enforcement, should we have to take it—again, this isn't the first
thing we do; it's the last thing we do. First are education, outreach,
notification, all the usual stuff that we do so well, I think, in Palo Alto. We
would do that first. If it came to the need to actually take an enforcement
action, right now we're limited to a misdemeanor. A misdemeanor, as our
attorney friends know, means the person shows up in court, and the judge
has to take action. This is a cumbersome way in our opinion to deal with
this problem. Many other parts of our ordinance have administrative
penalties as a possibility. That's what we would introduce here. The
proposed ordinance has administrative penalties as a possibility. It leaves
the misdemeanor in place as a possibility, but it just gives our enforcement
people two tools instead of one, should formal enforcement action be
needed. Those are the three things we're doing with the actual ordinance
that we're suggesting you move on to Council. The next recommendation is
to continue the discussions with the County about them running a retail sale
program for us in Palo Alto. Kirsten went over this, and we discussed it last
time. The County is still considering whether it's able to do that. Their
suggestion is that we make a slightly more formal request to them, that they
consider this. We're asking for your support tonight, and we'd then ask
either Ed or our City Manager to sign a letter not requesting that they
definitely do it, but requesting that they investigate it further and bring back
to us whether they'd be willing to do it or not. It'd still be a decision for Palo
Alto as to whether to do it, but we'd be sort of ratcheting this thing up in
their hierarchy by sending a letter. If you give us your support on this
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tonight, that's what we would do. We'll send a letter to the County and say,
"Would you consider doing this?" They're doing some soul searching right
now, and they in a while would then respond. That's the second thing. The
third thing is direct Staff to change the Municipal Code to expand the
ordinance to multifamily common areas, not the living units themselves but
the common areas. That's our recommendation. This part is not drafted.
In this case, you're not sending it on to Council; you're directing us to draft
a ordinance that we have not currently drafted. The principle would be the
common areas. Those could be external. There could be some larger units
that have internal common areas for use by everybody. The other thing that
we would suggest be included in this concept of a common area is the
balcony. I wanted to point that out specifically because you might have
strong feelings on that. We've had a recent commenter and some earlier
folks saying the balcony is important. It is very close often to other
balconies, and it's sort of like a common area in that you can be immediately
adjacent to someone who doesn't want to be exposed to the smoke and they
can't avoid it if you're smoking on the balcony. We would include that—we'll
turn to our attorneys—but it's probably not strictly speaking in the definition
of a common area, but it would just be added language. We'd say "common
areas and balconies." That's likely what we'd do. That's what this third
bullet is; you'd be directing us to draft language about these common areas.
Our recommendation—you might say, "Wait a minute. We just heard all this
testimony about the indoor." Of course, we did that because you asked
about it. At the end of the day, after conferring with our Police Department,
our Planning Department, it's not our recommendation. We believe that it's
too Staff intensive for us to run a program that would involve indoor spaces
owned or occupied by apartment dwellers or condo dwellers. That's the
recommendation on that one. The fourth is to direct Staff to support
legislative efforts to raise the legal age. This is something that we had an
opportunity to act on last year, and we realized we didn't have a formal
position that Council Members have taken. We put that before you. You
may feel that that should go on to the full Council. If so, that's fine. We
could take that with the ordinance in Recommendation Number 1, the
ordinance that we're suggesting goes on to Council. We could also take this
bullet on to full Council if you feel it's necessary. That's something you
could do. Those are our four recommendations, and that completes our little
presentation.
Chair Burt: Thank you. We do have three members of the public who would
like to speak. Should we hear from them first and then ...
Council Member Berman: Yeah.
Chair Burt: Our first speaker is Dr. Howard Kleckner. Welcome.
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Dr. Howard Kleckner: My name is Howard Kleckner. I'm a medical
oncologist. I'm a resident here of Palo Alto for the past 40 years.
(inaudible) firsthand opportunities to see patients who have been exposed to
cigarette smoking and developed all variety of cancers in my 40 years at
Kaiser Permanente and some other places. Cigarette smoking is actually the
leading preventable cause of death in America. One-third of all cancer
deaths are related to cigarette smoking. 10 percent of all lung cancers are
related to secondhand smoke. Smokers not only put themselves at risk, but
everyone around them with respect to cancer-related illnesses. The chance
of developing lung cancer if you don't smoke is 1 in 400. If you smoke one
or two packs of cigarettes a day for 20 years and you quit, your chances of
developing lung cancer are 1 in 20. Cigarette smoking increases your risk of
lung cancer 20 fold. It's not only lung cancer; cigarette smoking is related
to throat cancer, tongue cancer, pharyngeal cancer, kidney cancer, five
times more frequent, pancreatic cancer. The irony about lung cancer is that
only 10 percent of lung cancer is curable at the time the diagnosis is made.
Most lung cancers are found in late stages. Basically, it's a death penalty, to
have lung cancer. As I mentioned, 10 percent of lung cancers are thought
to be related to secondhand smoke. There's no safe level of secondhand
smoke. Even brief exposure to secondhand smoke has immediate adverse
affects on children, adults and the elderly. The smoke doesn't stay
contained to the room you smoke it in. it can travel from one housing unit
to the next. 40 to 50 percent of nonsmoking residents in multiunit housing
are exposed to secondhand smoke. Yet, more than 80 percent of
Californians don't smoke. One smoking neighbor can expose multiple
residents, every adjacent unit to smoking. Everyone has the right to
breathe clean air. Those who are most vulnerable. The very young, the
very old, and those who are ill are the ones most likely to spend a lot of time
in their housing units, unable to escape the hazards of a smoking neighbor.
I come as a board member of the American Cancer Society, California
Division. We would like a total ban on smoking in multiunit housing. I have
a couple of brief things to say about e-cigarettes too. The American Cancer
Society wants this ordinance to include e-cigarettes in the definition of
smoking, which is what was pointed out by the previous speaker. Adding e-
cigarettes to all smoke-free policies will prevent nonsmokers from being
exposed to aerosols emitted by these products. Help prevent the tobacco
industry from using these devices to create a new smoking norm that lures
the next generation of young people to a deadly addiction and eliminates
confusion in enforcing smoking policies. E-cigarettes have not been subject
to thorough, independent testing so people don't know what they're inhaling.
Studies of e-cigarettes have found heavy metals and carcinogens. Youth are
using e-cigarettes in an ever-increasing rate. E-cigarette use in young
people has tripled over the past year and it's a pathway for youth to go on to
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more traditional smoking habits. Countless jurisdictions across the country
have added e-cigarettes to their definition of smoking so they can be
regulated in the same way as other tobacco products. Thank you.
Chair Burt: Thank you. Our next speaker is Susie Brain.
Susie Brain: Good evening. I'm Susie Brain, and I live at 3737 La Donna in
Palo Alto. I'm also a volunteer with the American Cancer Society Cancer
Action Network and also a cancer survivor. We would like to thank the
Council and the Committee for exploring the option of tobacco retail license.
We're asking for the most comprehensive tobacco retail licensing ordinance
possible. Tobacco use remains the leading cause of preventable death in the
United States. More people die from tobacco-related illness than from
alcohol, AIDS, car crashes, illegal drugs, murders, suicide combined. More
than 80 percent of smokers become addicted by the age of 18, before
they're old enough to legally purchase tobacco. A tobacco retail license with
a sufficient annual fee will fund enforcement to ensure compliance with
tobacco laws and has been proven to be an effective way to reduce youth
access to tobacco products. A tobacco retail license should include e-
cigarettes in the definition of tobacco products. Youth are using e-cigarettes
at an ever-increasing rate, and their use now amongst teens surpasses that
of traditional cigarettes. E-cigarettes are marketed in flavors that appeal to
youth, such as cotton candy, gummy bear, chocolate mint and grape.
Tragically, these flavors also appeal to small children and are responsible for
a growing number of child poisonings. We support prohibiting tobacco sales
in pharmacies and increasing the minimum age for tobacco sales to age 21.
Selling tobacco products next to medications helps to normalize tobacco use
and further obscures the deadliness of these products. Youth have a
heightened susceptibility to the addictive qualities of nicotine. Delaying
initiation of smoking makes it less likely youth will ever begin smoking. We
also recommend prohibiting the sale of flavored tobacco products and
individual small cigars. Finally, we recommend a buffer zone around
schools. One-third of illegal tobacco sales takes place within 1,000 feet of a
school. I ask that the Committee Members and the Council protect the
citizens of Palo Alto, particularly the youth population, by passing the
strongest possible tobacco retail license ordinance that the law will allow.
Thank you.
Chair Curt: Thank you. Our final speaker is Carol Baker.
Carol Baker: Thank you. My name's Carol Baker, and I am the Co-Chair of
the Tobacco Free Coalition of Santa Clara County. I want to thank you all
for doing everything you can to protect those great youth that was here
tonight and their younger brothers and sisters. It was really kind of fun for
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me to see them and how they are coming out so beautifully. I doubt if any
of them smoke, but if they do, hopefully we can help them quit. I'm also a
member of the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network as a
legislative ambassador. The California Division has sent me their request to
you. The American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network encourages the
Palo Alto City Council to take the following actions tonight. Vote to prohibit
smoking in all multiunit housing. Vote to add electronic smoking devices to
the definition of smoking so that their use is prohibited wherever smoking is
not allowed. Ask the Staff to write a separate and comprehensive tobacco
retail license that includes annual fees to fund administration and
enforcement; fines and penalties that escalate for repeat offenders including
suspension and revocation of the license; coordination of tobacco
regulations. Prohibit the sales of tobacco products to persons under the age
of 21. Prohibit free samples or price discounting on tobacco products.
Prohibit sales near schools and playgrounds. Prohibit sales of small packs or
individual cigars. Prohibit the sales of flavored tobacco products. Prohibit
the sale of tobacco products within pharmacies. Include electronic smoking
devices in the definition of tobacco products. Thank you so much. I also
have a copy of these for each Member of the Council.
Chair Burt: Thank you. Returning to the Committee. Questions or
comments? Cory.
Council Member Wolbach: I was just going to say I'd recommend that we
break up the discussion, especially when it comes to motions on the full
recommendations. We can send them all as a package to Council, whatever
we decide, but I would recommend taking them up for separate votes.
Chair Burt: Let's see how the discussion goes and whether that's necessary.
Any other questions or comments?
Council Member Wolbach: Sure. I strongly support Recommendation 1. I
think Recommendation 2 is a good start. I guess a question regarding
Recommendation 2. We heard some requests from the community to
establish a tobacco licensing ordinance of a stringent nature. Do you need
further direction in order to pursue that or does Recommendation 2
encompass exploration of such an ordinance?
Mr. Bobel: Phil Bobel, Public Works. We'd explore it, but we're not
recommending that we craft the ordinance just yet. We're recommending
first to see if we can strike some arrangement with the County where they
would be acting as our agent. Kirsten was just showing me the way it's
worded in San Mateo County where the county runs the program for cities.
In there, the ordinance makes it clear how this is all working. If we are
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going to do something jointly with the County, we'd want to figure that out
first and draft the ordinance second. We think this is a good first start as
you indicated to indicate in writing that we'd like the County to very
seriously explore this and get back to us.
Council Member Wolbach: I think that that sounds prudent. I do like the
idea of drawing on, not just what the speakers said—thank you very much
for your comments, all three of the public speakers. Thank you very much.
Also, I think it's useful to pay close attention to what our neighboring county
to the north has done and to learn lessons from that. Regarding
Recommendation 3 about multifamily housing, I would actually—once it
comes times for motions, I'll hold off for now so we can do a round of just
discussion. I would actually support going further. If the only concern is
enforcement, I think that we should ban smoking in multifamily housing,
both in common areas and inside of units and in outdoor areas with close
enough proximity to doors, windows and vents that it will impact the
interior. With Item 4, as much as I hate smoking and hate tobacco, I will
not be supporting Recommendation 4. SB 151 did die in the Senate; I just
looked that up. My reason for opposing it is not that I would like to see
more people age 18 to 21 smoking. It's that this isn't about smoking. This
is about tobacco. That would also apply to tobacco uses that do not
negatively impact other people. I think that it's essentially age
discrimination among adults, and it's a broadening of—I don't believe in
prohibition and I think this is essentially age discrimination. I'm concerned
when it comes to the law about bad choices people make that hurt other
people. People have a right to make terrible decisions like smoking or
chewing tobacco as long as they are not hurting other people. That's what
I'm seeking to avoid. I think Recommendation 4—I appreciate the Staff
effort regarding Recommendation 4, but I can't support that.
Mr. Bobel: Could I just make one comment about Recommendation 3? I
should have mentioned that one of the concepts we were thinking also was
to have it, not as far as you were suggesting, but we would also craft it so
that the exterior areas adjacent to windows and doors, just like we have in
our commercial areas, was covered. The three things we were thinking
about were the so-called common areas, the balconies and then external
areas that were within probably 25 feet of a window or doorway, operable
window is what Kirsten was thinking.
Council Member Wolbach: Actually I would ask was there any consideration
of—what do you need? A special direction to include a designated smoking
area maybe 25 feet away from the main structure or something like that or
some way sealed off and separated?
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Ms. Struve: That was included in the Staff Report as well. It would be only
outdoors because, as we heard, there is no way to have proper ventilation
indoors. It would be up to landlords. We wouldn't require it, but we could
and several ordinances have set parameters like 25 feet, it has to have a
receptacle for the cigarette butts and it can't be near the playground, it can't
be near the pool or whatever other physical activity might be going on in the
complex. We could set the parameters and then leave it up to the landlords.
Mr. Bobel: We could essentially allow it.
Ms. Struve: We could allow it.
Mr. Bobel: We're reluctant to require it.
Council Member Wolbach: I would very much support exactly that. I think
that's a very judicious approach to say that if the people, whether it's a
condo or a homeowners association in a condo or the landowner, if the
landlord wanted to establish that and follow those safety precautions to
protect the rest of the residents and the neighbors, I think that that's
reasonable. I like that approach. Thank you for that.
Chair Burt: Marc.
Council Member Berman: A couple of questions. Thank you to the experts
from the different agencies that have come and the public speakers who
spoke. In regards to Recommendation Number 2, continuing discussions
with the County on regulatory mechanisms, have we considered at all
reaching out to other cities in the county to try to show that there's a critical
mass of interest for something like this that might make it more feasible for
the County to play that kind of role? Are we aware at all that other cities
might be considering them? It's just a way to kind of make it more worth
the County's time if it's not just Palo Alto that they're dealing with.
Ms. Struve: We haven't yet, but that's a good idea. We could include that
as part of (inaudible).
Council Member Berman: It might not even need to be part of the
recommendation at least written, but just something for you guys to do in
terms of outreach to other communities to see if there's any interest.
Another more kind of out there idea would be, if for some reason the County
of Santa Clara is not interested at the end of the day, is there anything that
would stop us from reaching out to San Mateo County to say, "Would you
guys help us?" We all talk about how the County jurisdictions are pretty
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arbitrary in lines. I don't know if there are other reasons why that might not
work, but it could be something to consider.
Mr. Bobel: It's probably not impossible. It'd be impossible to do it the way
they've done it in San Mateo County, because there the county is actually
the enforcement agent, which I probably wouldn't personally recommend
anyway. They certainly couldn't be the enforcement agent. On a contract
basis, they could probably do tasks.
Council Member Berman: Hopefully that isn't the case. Hopefully we can
work it out with the County of Santa Clara or Santa Clara County. If for any
reason we can't, something to consider.
Mr. Bobel: On your other point, I think we would be talking to the County.
I'm sure it's already occurred to them that they can help with that dialog
too. The County could ask some of the other cities.
Council Member Berman: True.
Mr. Bobel: We'll be encouraging them to do that.
Council Member Berman: To the extent that we can make it easier on them
if we're asking them to help us out, call some folks in Mountain View and Los
Altos and Sunnyvale. We can call Council Members we know and put bugs in
their ears. It could be a way to create a little critical mass there. I support
Recommendation 1. Electronic cigarettes are something that really scare me
and scare me for what might happen a decade or two from now after all the
gains that folks have made in terms of lowering the percentage of people
who smoke, and now here's this popular, cool thing that all of a sudden we
see a lot of our youth doing. I do worry a lot that they're going to transition
to regular cigarettes, and we're going to be back where we were 20 years
ago before the gains that have been made. I'm glad that that's in here.
Recommendation 2, I support as I just spoke to. Recommendation 3, I'm
inclined to agree with Cory, but I do want to ask you, Phil. There wasn't a
lot of explanation either in the Staff Report or really in your presentation
about why the City doesn't want to ban it inside, in units. Can you give us a
little more color as to what the concerns are or what the holdup is to doing
that?
Mr. Bobel: Cities have done this; there's a number of them. Let me just
give you a personal concern. In Palo Alto, our residents are a demanding
group.
Council Member Berman: No.
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Mr. Bobel: If we put something like this on the books, they're going to
expect us to enforce it. Other communities may be different. The
expectation is more "It's on the books and public outreach is great." In our
area, not so much. We're going to get people telling us, "It says that in your
ordinance and damn it, do it." Our police and our Code enforcement people,
one or the other which could be involved in this, are very concerned about
exactly how that would work. Certainly we already do smoking in other
areas more on a complaint basis, so we could say we're only going do it on a
complaint basis, but how would that work? Are we actually going to do
something then on a complaint basis? What are we going to do? The
practicality of this, I think, has got—I shouldn't just refer to our police and
planning. It concerns us as well. I think Ed's about to chime in here.
Mr. Shikada: Yes, if I could add really also appreciate the efforts that our
Public Works Department has made in leading the interdepartmental team in
taking a look at this issue. As Phil indicated, really reflecting a variety of
perspectives. Perhaps just to elaborate on the point he just made. From
both Police and Planning and Community Environment, one perspective of
recognizing the practical limitations and their ability at least currently to
enforce what would be an in-unit prohibition. At minimum, even if it were,
again from a resource standpoint, manageable in recognizing an expansion
of functions effectively in order to address this on an ongoing basis. In
looking at the options here, as Phil described both from a direct regulatory
response to looking at it on a complaint basis and other models that we've
seen in other agencies or even we've explored trying to maximize the
responsibility placed on landlords in one or two enforcements rules, as the
case may be. All of which, I think, ultimately pointed to some substantive,
greater step than the City's currently involved in and requiring more of a
resource expansion or potentially partnering with other agencies in order to
take this role. Again, not to suggest that it's impossible because other
agencies have taken it on, but it would be a significantly greater role and
greater responsibility than is currently envisioned or taken on by these
departments.
Mr. Bobel: If I could just add one thought to what Ed said. One could view
this as a next logical step, not the end. That's certainly the way we view it.
With our Recommendation Number 3, which involves the common areas, the
balconies and the external areas, if we did that as a first step we'd learn a
lot. We'd have taken one step. I don't think you have to view it as sort of
an either/or. You can view it as a first step and direct us to come back at a
later time with respect to a second step.
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Council Member Berman: I wish there would have been more discussion
about that in the Staff Report. I wish this did come before Policy and
Services five or six months ago. I guess I would have preferred that—this
concern would have been flagged and you could have said different
jurisdictions are doing it differently and here are some solutions that other
jurisdictions have to the enforcement mechanism. I'd definitely understand
your point that Palo Alto isn't necessarily like every other jurisdiction. If
we're going to enforce it for balconies and outdoor areas, it's the same
thing. How are we going to enforce it there and how is that really different
than enforcing it inside a unit? It is. As I talk about it and think about it,
there are differences. There are a lot of similarities also. A neighbor of
mine is smoking on his balcony, am I going to call the police or hopefully the
non-emergency line? That's probably the way that we're envisioning this
being taken care of. It's the same thing as noise ordinances and noise
complaints. We all know that we need to do a better job of enforcing our
gas leaf blower ban, which is something that I think we've been talking
about for 30 years. This is the same thing, but I don't think that it being
difficult is necessarily reason not to do it. It is something that I want to see
us do, and I'm not convinced that this isn't the right time to do it.
Ms. Struve: I just wanted to add about the types of enforcement
mechanisms other cities have used. Typically they require landlords to put
something in their leases within a certain timeframe that smoking is
prohibited in all units and all common areas or whatever we decide to do,
and that they put up signage and then treat it like any other lease violation.
It wouldn't necessarily be a police matter. If there was enforcement, it
would typically be verifying whether the language was included and the
leases and signage put out. As Phil pointed out, that has had good results in
other cities, but there might still be that concern that we should be going
into people's units and checking on them. That's kind of ...
Council Member Berman: It's tough. This is a tough thing, because you've
got that issue of privacy and the right of somebody to be able to do what
they want in their own unit, but at the same time this is unique. This isn't
noise. This isn't anything like that. We've heard from experts that this has
the possibility of really creating harmful health impacts on innocent people
that shouldn't be victims of that. It's one of these situations where the role
of a City is—one of our big roles is to protect the health and welfare of our
residents. Are we doing that if we're allowing folks, through no fault of their
own, to be receiving the negative impacts of other people smoking. I'll wait
and hear what my colleagues have to say, but I think this is something
where the health of somebody who's innocently sitting in their unit not doing
anything trumps the personal rights of somebody else to be able to smoke
on their couch, for me, is really how I look at this. That said, I don't know if
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it's ironic or not, I have similar concerns with Cory on Recommendation
Number 4 in increasing the age to 21 years of age. The same argument has
been made for alcohol. If somebody's old enough for us to give them a gun
and send them off to war, are we really saying that we're going to restrict
their ability to make decisions about what they put in their body? I think as
long as we, unless we're deciding that cigarette smoking is totally illegal and
banned for everybody like drugs. That is one that I struggle with a lot, and I
didn't have a position coming into tonight's meeting. I'll wait and hear how
the conversation goes, but it's something that I'm not necessarily
instinctively comfortable with. I'm not sure how I feel about that right now.
Chair Burt: Tom.
Council Member DuBois: I agree to Number 1. I'm a little confused on
exactly what we're asking the County to do. I thought it was enforcement,
and it sounds like it's not enforcement.
Mr. Bobel: We're not suggesting we decide that now. We're seeing what
the County could do. I was just giving you my personal thought that it'd be
odd for us to ask another jurisdiction to enforce our requirement, but it's
what was done in San Mateo. It's possible, but we're not suggesting you try
to make that decision tonight. We just recommend that we work with the
County and see what we can work out, and we'll come back to you.
Council Member DuBois: (crosstalk) she was going on, I assume they don't
have the Staff either. Was that part of the discussion?
Ms. Struve: We could ask them.
Mr. Bobel: Yeah, we could ask them.
Ms. Struve: It's just it would be a new program. What we would be
specifically asking them to do is collect the annual fees. As many speakers
pointed out, there's an annual fee for tobacco retail licensing. There is a
review of any new ones, if any new ones were to locate in Palo Alto. If we
had certain restrictions in place in terms of locating near schools; someone
would have to maintain that map and make sure new ones don't locate near
schools. Previous ones would likely be grandfathered. Whatever other
restrictions we want to place on them, someone has to review these
submittals and then do the administrative tasks. That's what we would be
asking the County to do.
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Council Member DuBois: When you guys thought of it, there would be
revenue sources, a license fee, but clearly not enough to pay for the Staff
needed to run this.
Ms. Struve: Right.
Mr. Bobel: Right. The feeling is among our police and planning folks that
there wouldn't be enough. We only have 20 or 30 of these locations, and
you couldn't make the fee high enough to support the administrative work.
Council Member DuBois: It might be not a full-time position (inaudible) part
of somebody's job. Again, it sounds like it's very early thinking here. It's
just not clear to me that it's going to make sense for the County. I don't
know if anybody from the County has thoughts about how this would work.
Joyce Villalobos: I'm Joyce Villalobos from the County. This is something
that would still—it's very early in the conversation. We still need to explore
potential options.
Council Member DuBois: I'm just concerned that you may think we're
outsourcing it, but we're going to end up enforcing it ourselves anyways.
Let's see. You did answer a lot of my questions already. I think, again, I
didn't know if you had taken out the inside apartments because of our
asking for more information. I think that wasn't the case. It was really
more about this internal discussion on enforcement. I too have come
around where I really think we should allow a designated outdoor space, but
really look at not allowing it internally in apartment buildings. Part of it may
be, I think, in how it's described. When you said other cities really enforce it
through lease agreements, maybe this thing needs to be called an ordinance
for landlords and rental agreements and be marketed that way, so that
there's no question of who's enforcing it, who's responsible. It's not a City
ban on smoking in apartments; it's a City ordinance concerning rental
agreements.
Ms. Struve: I think Liz—from what I know, most ordinances won't pass if
the landlords are liable in any way. We would probably have the apartment
associations here. The reason most ordinances are structured being a city
ban and then enforced through lease agreements—it's not actually enforced
but requiring lease agreements to include language so that if the landlord
does that, that's all they need to do, include signage and the lease
agreement. If someone then smokes, that is not a violation on them. Do
you have anything to add?
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Molly Stump, City Attorney: Thank you. Molly Stump, City Attorney. Just
to be clear, the City could require leases to include certain provisions, but
then the enforcement of those provisions is a private contractual matter
between the parties to the lease. The Staff is quite correct that the landlord
would meet their obligations to comply with City law. If smoking were to
occur, then the City would not have a direct mechanism then to take an
enforcement action based on that provision. That would be really to the
discretion of the landlord, how to enforce that themselves.
Council Member DuBois: Right. That's what I understood. It seemed to
address the concern about the City not really wanting to or being able to
enforce that, but it would create, I guess, pressure from the tenants
complaining. The landlord would have a decision to make if they were going
to enforce it or not.
Ms. Stump: Yes, that's correct.
Council Member DuBois: That seems pretty reasonable to me. My two
cents. I also think that I had to struggle a little bit with condo ownership. I
think we started with something like a lease agreement that—again, I kind
of heard what you were saying about doing this in steps. One of my early
thoughts was how many times do we want to go back to Council with this?
Should we just wait and do all of this at once? It's like listening to you I
kind of came around to let's take some steps, and maybe we should start
with apartment rentals. On signage, I really wasn't clear on how signage
was changing in the ordinance.
Ms. Struve: Right now it requires an inch-tall, all capital letters. As Phil
pointed out, not all of our signs meet that. It's not really necessary; usually
the universal smoking symbol is plenty to show people that they aren't
supposed to smoke. We'd just like our existing signage to at least be in
compliance.
Council Member DuBois: There's the size of it. With an ordinance, are we
requiring it in more places than currently?
Ms. Struve: No, the same. Currently the ordinance requires that it be in all
areas where smoking is not allowed. It would be the same.
Council Member DuBois: We have an (inaudible) areas.
Ms. Struve: We did add e-cigarettes as well, because there is an
international no vaping symbol as well. Once e-cigarettes are included, we
would want to update our signs (inaudible).
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Council Member DuBois: Molly, I had a question on 9.14.70, the
exemptions. Why are we exempting bingo games?
Ms. Stump: Thank you, Council Member DuBois. That's old language.
That's not new. The new language is marked with an underline.
Council Member DuBois: Was there any thought of striking that?
Ms. Stump: Staff, did you have thoughts on that? Bingo is really sort of a
special category of conduct all on its own.
Council Member DuBois: (crosstalk)
Ms. Schick: Can I speak to that?
Ms. Struve: Please.
Ms. Schick: Suzaynn Shick, UCFS. I'd just like to note that some of the
highest particle concentrations recorded in a public place, that are in the
scientific literature, were recorded in a bingo hall.
Council Member DuBois: (inaudible)
s. Stump: I wonder if we have a bingo hall?
Ms. Struve: Yeah, do we have a bingo hall?
Ms. Schick: Suzaynn again. This was actually a church hall being used for
bingo.
Ms. Struve: We did update it the last time we updated the ordinance,
because it used to just exclude all bingo, but now it says consistent with the
Labor Code. If it's basically an all volunteer bingo club and they all agree,
then they can smoke in there. If it's a typical place of work, they need to
follow the Labor Code.
Council Member DuBois: Just like a very archaic exception.
Ms. Struve: It was updated last time.
Council Member DuBois: I want my poker game and (crosstalk) as well. I
guess hotel rooms are different than apartments. Is that State law or
Exception C?
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Ms. Stump: This doesn't bar a hotelier from banning smoking. As you
know, I'm sure, from your travels, most hotel rooms are no smoking. This
does allow a smoking room in a hotel. Does the Staff have any comments
about—did we look at making a change there?
Mr. Bobel: We did not look at making changes.
Ms. Struve: No, we didn't look to make a change. Like you said, most
hotels are already nonsmoking.
Ms. Stump: I would expect that the market is largely driving hoteliers
towards predominantly nonsmoking.
Council Member DuBois: I didn't know if the language was correct and I just
wasn't reading it. The last sentence, the last clause, what's it trying to say
there? 65 percent of guest rooms ...
Ms. Struve: I don't know. That didn't change.
Council Member Wolbach: Just a typo?
Ms. Stump: It actually looks like it's possible there is some typos there in
the series of—again the Staff is not recommending any changes to 070.
We’re going to go back and look to make sure that we've ...
Council Member DuBois: It just looked like there was something there. If
you could figure that out.
Ms. Stump: We'll take a look and proofread that.
Council Member DuBois: On "4," I came in here kind of in favor of it, so I
would support it.
Chair Burt: A couple of questions I have. Under the enforcement and
adding infractions, would it still only be police officers who can make these
citations if there are infractions?
Mr. Bobel: Yeah. Code enforcement people (crosstalk).
Ms. Stump: Administrative citations, yeah.
Mr. Bobel: In fact, we usually do.
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Ms. Stump: You don't need to be a police officer.
Chair Burt: Can you remind me—you said that we have to have signage
wherever smoking is prohibited, but our Downtown areas, we have people
frequently violating it. I don't run into the signs very much. Do we need
more signs in those areas?
Ms. Struve: Yes. We do have ten signs on each Downtown area, mostly on
University with some on side streets and also California Avenue. They're not
very big. They could be easily missed, but we would need a master signage
program going to the Architectural Review Board to put up more than that.
We were waiting to see whether e-cigarettes are included, because then we
would have a different type of sign. We would have to go through a process
to put up more, but we do have 20 signs up.
Chair Burt: You aren't needing Council direction to increase the signage?
Ms. Struve: No.
Council Member DuBois: I read it as that was exempted. As a service
location, you don't need a sign.
Ms. Struve: Right, but the Downtown area does have signage, because we
specifically banned it. Parks have signs and Downtown and Cal. Ave. have
signs as well. We have asked the malls to put up signage. I believe
Stanford did.
Chair Burt: On the regulatory issues, we were talking about restricting
pharmacies from being able to sell. Did this issue go beyond that? Are you
saying that's the problem?
Mr. Bobel: That was tied into the licensing thing. If we had a license, then
what we talked about last time was that would be a vehicle for if we wanted
to say that pharmacies couldn't sell it or if we wanted to say that it couldn't
be sold within X feet of a school, then we'd use the licensing provision to do
that. In the ordinance, we'd say that we grandfather in existing ones. I
mean, that's usually done. We'd probably grandfather in existing locations
where it's sold. For any new locations they couldn't be within whatever we
decided. They couldn't be within X feet of a school. They couldn't be in
pharmacies. There wasn't a lot of enthusiasm for that the last time we
discussed it. It's really tied into—the first step that we're now thinking
would be seeing if we can partner with the County to have a licensing
program. The next step would be what it would prohibit.
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Chair Burt: Setting aside for the moment what the scope of that licensing
program might be, there was this argument that we need to go to the
County because we couldn't charge enough to cover the enforcement. I'm
trying to understand what the enforcement would entail. If we ban it from
pharmacies, they're not going to sell it. That's pretty easy to enforce.
There's a question on what other tools we would have. Upon a repeat
violation, whether they would jeopardize other rights that they have to sell
things that they really care about. I would think that that's something that
is not going to be difficult to enforce.
Mr. Bobel: I'm sorry. If I said that the administrative fees collected
wouldn't be enough to cover enforcement, I misspoke. It wouldn't be
enough to cover—most of the costs would be administering the permit part
of the program, keeping track of who's permitted, re-permitting them at
whatever (crosstalk) we agreed to. The administration of the permit
program.
Chair Burt: What were you thinking was a cap on what you could charge for
a permit that led you to the conclusion that it couldn't be self-funded?
Mr. Bobel: We just did some quick math with the Police Department. As I
recall, we were thinking if it's got to be the better part of a person, then
you'd have to raise $100,000, $150,000.
Chair Burt: A better part of a person to do what?
Mr. Bobel: Person year. To manage the permit program.
Chair Burt: We've got 20 to 30 sellers. Why do you need a full-time to
manage—to give 20 to 30 licenses a year and keep track of that? I don't get
it. I'm serious; I'm asking this question. As a policy decision, I don't get it.
Mr. Bobel: We didn't do a real careful job of ...
Chair Burt: Even at a high level, I don't get it. As I think about how much
work would be involved in once a year getting renewals of 20 or 30 licenses,
I think that's a pretty low administrative task. It's just not a full-time
person. I don't know how we get to thinking that you've got to have a full-
time person to do every task that we've got. It just doesn't make sense to
me. If that's the problem, then I don't think that's a problem. I wouldn't
have a problem with charging enough to fully cover whatever it is. It may
mean that we don't have little mom and pop gas stations selling cigarettes
because they choose not to pay a several hundred dollar fee or whatever it
might. So be it, in my mind. That would be one of the objectives. I would
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want to hear more on reconsideration of that. Now that I understand what
the rationale was for thinking we couldn't do it, I haven't heard a good
explanation. On the multifamily issues, I didn't quite hear an answer on how
we would enforce these balconies, for instance. If we couldn't enforce
indoor areas, how would we be able to enforce the outdoor areas? I'm not
against it, I just want to understand the rationale.
Mr. Bobel: We just think that entering a premises to gather enough
evidence to conclude that there's a problem is much more problematic to
enter someone's private space. To observe them either outside or on a
balcony is just entirely different for our Code enforcement people.
Chair Burt: I didn't hear anything about some of the things that I thought
we touched on the last time we had this discussion. Even though we've
heard from experts that we can't wholly address the impact of secondhand
smoke through ventilation systems, are there measures that would be
significant? If we aren't going to eliminate smoking in multifamily, are there
measures that would be of significant benefit to tenants that can be
required?
Mr. Bobel: We didn't become aware of any. I can't say that we did an
exhaustive search on this, because we ...
Ms. Struve: We have our experts.
Ms. Schick: I can address that. Suzaynn Schick, UCSF. I actually wrote
one of the papers that helped drive the ASHRAE decision in 2005 to make
smoke free air the basis for ventilation. In multiunit housing, you have a
wide variety of heating, ventilation and air conditioning systems. Some of
them basically mix air from all apartments and distribute it back to all of the
apartments. Some of them are individual units. Some of them are basically
passively, old school ventilated with windows and have huge effects from
wind conditions. Essentially, cigarette smoke is so difficult to get out of a
room before it sticks to the walls and creates a persistent hazard, you have
to make something very much akin to a wind tunnel. We've done modeling
of how you keep nicotine and tar off of surfaces, and it doesn't work in
indoor spaces.
Chair Burt: I want to break up those two concerns between how to deal
with the residues on the surfaces and how to deal with the air. I heard you
on both of them. I just have thoughts that I want to explore. If there was
an ordinance that put two different requirements on landlords of multi-
tenant units, one would be that they could only allow smoking in a unit that
had separate ventilation. It couldn't be intermixed with units that are
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nonsmoking. Second, that upon any turnover of a unit, it would have to go
through essentially a full purification. You mentioned what it has to go
through. I'm thinking of the economics of what a landlord will choose to do.
What I think would be an outcome is that you'd have a limited number of
rooms and a limited number of apartments that would be smoking ones.
They'd have to be separately ventilated and basically they'd have to re-rent
them to smokers again. Otherwise, they wouldn't go through the very high
expense that would be associated with turning over those rooms and turning
them into a room that no longer has residues. It'd be a high expense, and a
landlord is not going to go through that on a frequent basis. My question
would be if you put those two restrictions in one, would they have any legal
problems? I don't think that they would. Wouldn't they address both of
these issues from a practical standpoint and have the indirect impact of
greatly curtailing the number of units that are smoke units and do so
because landlords would be making economic decisions that it's not worth it.
Ms. Williams: I would think the City would—due to the fact that the
ventilation community has looked at this in terms of casinos that are using
multimillion dollar ventilation systems that aren't able to control for this ...
Chair Burt: That's a shared system. This is different. This is saying if
you're going to have smoking in a room, it must be separately ventilated or
you can have five rooms that are smoking rooms and they're all on one
ventilation system, and you can't have that ventilation intermix with the
ventilation system for those rooms that are not for smoking.
Ms. Williams: In a multiunit shared space, the ventilation experts from all
the science that we have been reading and been told through the ventilation
experts, that's not actually possible to do. I would think that this ...
Chair Burt: Not possible in what way?
Ms. Williams: Not possible to contain in that space the secondhand smoke.
As Dr. Shick said, you would need something akin to a wind tunnel to even
be able to contain that. I've heard it referenced as an indoor ...
Chair Burt: You're saying that aside from sharing ventilation, that there
would be some kind of spillover that couldn't be contained by the exhaust
then?
Ms. Williams: Yes. The research has shown from a variety of sources that it
can go through the electrical sockets, through gaps around plumbing,
through all sorts of minute crevasses. Even sealing up all those cracks and
crevasses still has (crosstalk).
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Chair Burt: What we have before us is no ban on it. If the choice was
between a ban that worked 90 percent well and one that didn't exist,
wouldn't it be better to have something that works 90 percent?
Ms. Struve: May I add something? I believe that this would probably be
more difficult to enforce, because we would have to review every building's
ventilation system rather than—if we are okay with the type of enforcement
that other cities are doing, which is including in leases and having signage
up and have a complaint-based basically check-in program, no one ever
goes into units in these other cities as far as I know. That would be not a
very high level of enforcement, but it would be probably easier than
checking whether they have turned it over ...
Chair Burt: Kirsten, let me just say though that I think you have it reversed.
They would only be able to allow smoking in designated units. Those would
be the only ones we'd have to look at. All others, it would be a clear
prohibition. I'm still open to considering the full prohibition, but I don't think
we'd have a very high percentage of the units that the landlords would elect
to make smoking units. Those would be the only ones. I'm not sure that we
have to go in and enforce it. They submit engineering drawings that show
that they have got the segregated ventilation. Maybe it's not an effective
enough tool from a health standpoint; although, I want to be careful that we
aren't making a choice because we can't get something that's perfect, we'll
end up with nothing. We might have something that solves 90 percent of
the problem. I'm open to both of those, all three of the considerations;
although, I'm inclined to do more than what we're proposing here. I don't
want to take something off the table because it's not perfect, and we end up
with no restriction. That doesn't make sense to me.
Council Member DuBois: What do you think about putting it in the lease
agreement, where the City's not enforcing it, the landlord is?
Chair Burt: To the extent possible, I'd want to see as many of these be
landlord enforced and figure out how we can do it that way. Cory.
Council Member Wolbach If you had more comments, I didn't want to
interrupt you, of course. I can speak more later.
Chair Burt: On the final one, I don't understand if we had a rationale here
where the example is made to alcohol, but we don't sell alcohol to 18 year
olds.
Council Member DuBois: (inaudible) doesn't agree with that either.
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Chair Burt: Huh?
Council Member DuBois: I won't speak for you, Cory, about that. You're
saying you didn't agree with that.
Council Member Wolbach: Actually, I didn't bring up alcohol.
Chair Burt: No.
Council Member Wolbach: I'd be happy to rebuttal that point, but I ....
Council Member Berman: (crosstalk)
Chair Burt: I think that it's completely reasonable for us to consider
restrictions on sale of harmful materials to those who are not full adults yet.
Council Member DuBois: (inaudible) just supporting our legislative program
like we are for all kinds of other areas. Right?
Chair Burt: I don't know. Is it not permissible for us to put a more
restrictive sale on age of tobacco?
Ms. Stump: The County looked at this. They did pass a regulation in June
that goes into effect in January raising the age for sales from 18 to 21 in the
unincorporated areas. That is something that is in place in the
unincorporated portions of Santa Clara County. I don't know whether Staff
is aware are other cities looking to adopt those as city requirements.
Initially when it was raised at the County, there was some thought that cities
might (crosstalk).
Chair Burt: My question is simply is there anything that would limit us from
being able to enact it?
Ms. Stump: There is some question about whether that might be preempted
by State law. The County looked at that, and their County Council took the
position that it was a permissible matter for local regulation. We have not
looked at it in-depth, so I know that there is at least a question about that.
The County at least on their review concluded that it was permissible. I do
not believe they've been subject to any legal challenge. The regulation is
not in effect yet however.
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Chair Burt: I would be interested in a local regulation restricting it to not
being sold to individuals under 21 in addition to supporting whatever State
legislative efforts. Cory, you had something else.
Council Member Wolbach: Yeah. Let me actually, since we've just
addressed, bring up a couple of things about the age issue. As I mentioned
before, again, I despise tobacco and all of its harms and being around it
generally. I would actually say alcohol is not a good analogy. Alcohol
intoxication leads to a potential for harm to others, for instance, through
drunk driving or other activities. Limiting who can access alcohol is more
than just about the harm opposed to that person. I think it's apples to
oranges. I don't think that there's anything legally preventing us from
having a local ordinance. I don't think there's anything legally preventing us
from making a recommendation to our lobbyist in Sacramento or in
Washington, DC. If the Committee and the Council decides to move in that
direction, that will be that decision. I just don't support it for the reasons
that I stated earlier. I think we should be focused here on activities that
have potential for causing harm to minors, under the age of 18, or to
persons beyond the person making what I think is an admittedly really bad
decision. I don't know if we're ready to start making motions.
Chair Burt: I'll move to that in just a second. I just want to respond to
yours. I think that we restrict alcohol to minors for two reasons. The harm
they might do to others and probably more so the harm that they did to
themselves. The fact that there's an additional reason doesn't take away
from why we ...
Council Member Wolbach: When it comes to ...
Chair Burt: We don't need to go back and forth. You made a statement,
and I wanted to ...
Council Member Wolbach: You're right, we don't.
Chair Burt: ... put on the table my rationale.
Council Member Wolbach: I understand.
Chair Burt: Let's go ahead and take these individually. Under the first one,
that sounded the most, strongest consensus on that. Is there any ...
Council Member DuBois: I'd like to say if it's unanimous, I think it could go
on consent.
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Council Member Wolbach: Actually, I had a couple of questions about this
one. I just realized I had some notes about things that were not raised
earlier. I'll try to make them quick. First, this is probably the right one to
bring this up, either here or under "3." Do we want to add hotels? I raise it
as a question.
Chair Burt: Wait a minute.
Council Member Berman: That would be under "3."
Chair Burt: If you were talking about questions on other things, not on "1."
Council Member Wolbach: That could be in Item 5 or it could be—we can
bookmark that one until later. Also, because "1" really deals with kind of
tweaks to the existing ordinance and changing the language and changing
enforcement, I would actually suggest we remove misdemeanor as one of
the punishments. I think it's a little strong.
Council Member Burt: Let's ask the City Attorney for the thinking on that.
Ms. Stump: Council Members. I would recommend that you keep the
flexibility of the potential penalty there. It is enforceable by my office. We
have a prosecutorial discretion. We dismiss the vast majority of them, and
then the rest of them are resolved in court. We do have the ability to take
facts and circumstances into account, but it is available there in the event
that it's paired with other conduct that's a problem or it’s a repeated kind of
a problem, then we have that ability.
Council Member DuBois: It's written as the third occurrence. I assume you
need it if people just aren't paying their fines. We need to be able to at that
point make it a misdemeanor to force them to pay the fine or not.
Ms. Stump: A misdemeanor has the potential for judicial action, where an
infraction and administrative cite do not. With certain populations, that
would potentially be the only way where you really would have an
enforcement tool (crosstalk).
Council Member Wolbach: On this one, I've spoken to unhoused persons in
Palo Alto who get bugged a lot about their smoking. I don't know that
having it be a misdemeanor where they have to go to the judge and get it
dismissed, I don't know that it's helping, to be honest. I guess what we're
really dealing with is an addiction issue. I don't know that the misdemeanor
is really that much more useful than the infraction to helping people with an
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addiction issue. If it's happening over and over and over again, then you're
talking about an addiction issue. I guess the question is ...
Council Member Burt: Not necessarily. It can be a defiance issue.
Ms. Stump: Your points are well taken. This is a complicated topic, and it's
a part of a much broader conversation about enforcement of municipal
violations in the north county courthouse. It's a longer conversation. It
really is another whole area. I don't think that you have the sufficient
background and material before you, a briefing or even correct Staff, to
really delve into this conversation. My recommendation would be not to try
to take it on in the context of this evening, but to keep the status quo of
having that available. I think Council is probably at a point, perhaps after
the first of the year, where we can come back with a broader conversation
about this complicated set of issues around enforcement.
Council Member Wolbach: I appreciate that. I will defer to the City Attorney
on this one. Thank you.
Chair Burt: Do we have a motion on "1"?
Council Member Berman: I'll move that the Policy and Services Committee
recommend that Council adopt the changes in Attachment A to the City's
Smoking Ordinance that include addition of electronic cigarettes, changing
signage language and providing an additional option for enforcement of the
City's Smoking Ordinance.
Council Member Wolbach: Second.
MOTION: Council Member Berman moved, seconded by Council Member
Wolbach to recommend the City Council adopt changes to the City’s
Smoking Ordinance to include the addition of Electronic Cigarettes, changing
signage language and to provide an additional option for enforcement of the
City’s Smoking Ordinance.
Chair Burt: Any other discussion?
Council Member Berman: No.
Chair Burt: All in favor. That passes unanimously.
MOTION PASSED: 4-0
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Chair Burt: The second one has to do with regulatory mechanisms and
whether we want to recommend the Staff recommendation which is to
continue discussions with the County or to do otherwise.
Council Member Berman: Did you want to kind of add on a second option
which is to have Staff re-evaluate what staffing needs might be necessary
for an internal policy?
Chair Burt: Yeah.
Council Member Berman: I'll let you ...
Chair Burt: I would move that we request Staff to return to Policy and
Services Committee with a better analysis of costs of enforcing retail sale
regulations and potential fee structure to recover those costs.
Council Member DuBois: As well as continuing the discussion with the
County?
Council Member Burt: As well as continuing the discussion with the County.
Council Member Berman: I'll second.
MOTION: Chair Burt moved, seconded by Council Member Berman to direct
Staff to continue discussions with Santa Clara County on regulatory
mechanisms related to retail sale of tobacco, including preventing new
tobacco retailers from locating near schools.
Chair Burt Any further discussion?
Council Member Berman: Nope.
Chair Burt: All in favor. That passes unanimously.
MOTION PASSED: 4-0
Chair Burt: On the next one, which is the multifamily issue ...
Council Member Wolbach: I'll take a shot at a motion on this one. I'd move
direct Staff to draft changes to the Municipal Code to expand the Smoking
Ordinance to multifamily housing common areas, indoor areas and balconies
with allowance of designated outdoor smoking areas at property owner or
condominium owner discretion.
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Mr. Bobel: The indoor areas you mentioned were part of the common areas.
Council Member Wolbach: Including units. Sorry (inaudible). Including
units, if City Clerk could catch that change.
Chair Burt: I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
Council Member Berman: Can you repeat what you just captured of Cory's
motion?
Female: Sure, because it doesn't show up there. This may not be exact, so
go with me here. Direct Staff to change the Municipal Code to expand the
ordinance to multifamily housing units, indoors, balconies with the
allowances of designated outdoor areas with property owners' discretion.
Phil asked the question about indoor being part of the common areas. Cory
said, "No, including the units themselves."
Council Member Wolbach: Yes, it would be "the units and other indoor areas
including common areas." It's all of the above.
Council Member DuBois: On the amendment, could we clarify that we're
talking about exploring something for (inaudible) lease agreement with
tenants?
Council Member Wolbach: Yeah. I don't have a second yet, but I will be
happy to add that right now. To explore enforcement mechanisms based on
lease agreements and property owner requirements and opportunity for civil
litigation by private parties.
Council Member DuBois: I'm trying to clarify the lease agreement versus
the condo owner. I'm suggesting we delay. I haven't heard a good
enforcement mechanism for a condo owner.
Mr. Bobel: The analogous situation is the rules or regulations of the
condominium HOA. That's the analogy.
Council Member Wolbach: Do we need special language or can Staff do
that?
Mr. Bobel: No, because we're not—you're giving us general direction to craft
an ordinance, not like Number 1 where it was very specific.
Council Member Wolbach: I think that'll cover it. Do I have a second for
that?
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Council Member DuBois: Yeah (inaudible).
Council Member Berman: I'll second it. I don't know if Tom seconded it.
Council Member DuBois: Go ahead.
MOTION: Council Member Wolbach moved, seconded by Council Member
Berman to recommend the City Council direct Staff to expand the Ordinance
to multifamily housing indoor balconies and include allowances of designated
area outdoors with property owner discretion.
Council Member Wolbach: Actually, one question. I saw it mentioned in the
Staff Report. We didn't talk about it a lot tonight. Is medically licensed
marijuana use exempted? Would it be exempted? Do we want to exempt
it?
Mr. Bobel: Kirsten kind of covered that. The State law says ...
Ms. Struve: It's your decision whether—the State law says that it would not
be exempted. There are other ways to take in medicinal marijuana that are
oral and don't involve smoking it. We don't have to allow it. Is that clear?
Council Member DuBois: Smoke (inaudible).
Council Member Wolbach: Would be able to allow it if we wanted to?
Ms. Stump: Yes, you can.
Council Member Wolbach: Do we want to? I have mixed feelings about it,
to put it mildly.
Council Member Berman: Along a blanket medical marijuana exemption?
Ms. Struve: You could leave it up to landlords.
Council Member DuBois: I think smoke is smoke, personally.
Mr. Bobel: That's what the State Legislature thought.
Council Member Wolbach: Let's not take that up tonight. I'm going to stay
with my motion I have. Let's just move on from there. If somebody else
wants to bring that up, go for it.
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Council Member DuBois: Pat, you want to vote?
Chair Burt: I'm just thinking. I'm still trying to envision whether there are
circumstances where if units are standalone. This kind of goes to this
principle that I wouldn't apply to 18, 19 years old, but I would to adults. If
there are circumstances where the only harm is to themselves, how
restrictive do we want to be? I'm not sure whether there are those
circumstances in this multi-units. That's ...
Council Member DuBois: Do you want to make it multi-units with shared
walls?
Chair Burt: Yeah, but are there multi-units that aren't shared walls?
Council Member DuBois: I don't know. Could there be a bungalow situation
(inaudible) separate.
Ms. Williams: I think the ones that are above—most cities will define it as
two or more units whether it's two on top or two side-by-side. Not getting
into the minutiae of it, but for multiunit dwelling as a definition, two or ...
Chair Burt: If somebody's got a two-unit apartment and he wants to rent
each unit to smokers, do we have a big objection with that? I think we have
an objection if one of them is a nonsmoker. We want to address that issue.
I don't know whether we want to go so far as to say that if you're a renter,
no landlord can say that I'll have a smoking multiunit dwelling. That's what
I'm struggling with.
Ms. Schick: Can I say one more thing?
Chair Burt: Yeah.
Ms. Schick: Suzaynn Shick, UCSF. HVAC is difficult to run properly. Even if
you have excellent plans, when you are running your HVAC and you have a
strong wind on one side of your building, if that wind goes into your intakes,
it will force your HVAC to run backwards. That runs the risk of ...
Chair Burt: Of what?
Ms. Shick: ... avoiding, basically making your smoke go through into
another unit.
Chair Burt: If we're talking about a circumstance where all of those units
would be smoking ...
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Council Member DuBois: It's a smoking quadplex.
Ms. Struve: They could form a club and be exempt.
Council Member Wolbach: They could set up an outdoor designated smoking
area.
Chair Burt: I guess I would like to add to ask Staff to explore whether there
are reasonable allowances for multi-units that do not interact with
nonsmokers basically.
Council Member Wolbach: Is that a substitute motion or do you want to
make it ...
Chair Burt: No.
Council Member Wolbach: ... as a separate one or is it an amendment?
Chair Burt: It's an amendment.
Council Member Berman: An amendment.
Council Member Wolbach: I'm sorry, I misheard that.
Chair Burt: It's just asking Staff to return ...
Council Member Berman: To P&S?
Council Member Burt: To P&S with that evaluation.
Council Member Wolbach: Would we still be moving forward with the rest of
(crosstalk)?
Ms. Stump: The rest of it has to come back to you anyway. It's not drafted,
and there are some complications in what you've laid out. We're going to
have to come back with a couple of options and language for you to decide.
Mr. Bobel: We were assuming we'd come back here just like Molly said.
Council Member Wolbach: I'm not going to accept it as a friendly
amendment, but I'm not necessarily opposed. I want to hear from my other
colleagues.
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Council Member Berman: I'll second it, and let's move this forward. I'm not
saying that I'm open to the idea. I'm saying I'm fine with Staff looking into
it and coming back to us with their thoughts on it.
AMENDMENT: Chair Burt moved, seconded by Council Member Berman to
add to the Motion, “with an evaluation of circumstances where stand-alone
units could be smoking only exemptions.”
Chair Burt: I don't need to discuss it anymore. I've already stated what ...
Let's vote on the amendment which is to ask Staff to return along with the
language of the primary motion with evaluation of whether there are
circumstances where standalone units can be peeled off there.
Council Member Berman: Are exemptions (inaudible).
Chair Burt: Are exemptions for them. All in favor. Opposed. That's 3-1.
AMENDMENT PASSED: 3-1 Wolbach no
Chair Burt: Then our last ...
Council Member Wolbach: We need to vote on the full motion.
Chair Burt: I'm sorry. Returning to the motion to ...
Mr. Bobel: Could I just ask a clarification question?
Chair Burt: Yes.
Mr. Bobel: When you use the word "standalone," do you mean that they
don't have common walls or common ceiling?
Council Member Berman: No shared surface.
Chair Burt: They couldn't have shared HVAC, and I would think not common
walls or ceiling, yeah.
Ms. Struve: With other, with non ...
Council Member DuBois: It's getting ...
Ms. Struve: You're talking about the duplex with two smokers?
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Council Member DuBois: Exactly. You're getting (inaudible), but I thought
you were also saying if the landlord wanted to have a 100 percent smoking
facility, they could do that.
Chair Burt: That's with nonsmoking units. If it's 100 percent, he's not
sharing anything within his ...
Council Member Berman: Okay, yeah.
Ms. Struve: Right.
Council Member Berman: We're on the same page.
Council Member DuBois: Do you guys understand?
Ms. Struve: Yeah.
Council Member Berman: Now vote on the full motion?
Female: The main motion.
Chair Burt: Yes.
Council Member Wolbach: As amended.
Chair Burt: All in favor. That passes unanimously.
MOTION AS AMENDED PASSED: 4-0
Chair Burt: Finally, on the final one we have two options. One is as Staff
proposed, and the other is to add language that would ask them to return
with ordinance language for restricting tobacco sale to those under 21. It's
clear from our discussions we're split on this. Molly, does this mean that
nothing on that subject can be forwarded to the Council for consideration, to
the full council, whereas a split issue can be forwarded without a
recommendation of majority of the Committee?
Ms. Stump: The Committee has several options. Just to clarify, Chair Burt.
You're not talking about the Staff recommendation about State-level
legislative lobbying. You're talking about a local ...
Chair Burt: Yeah, I don't think we're having contention about that.
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Ms. Stump: About that issue, the legislative lobbying at the State level or a
local regulation that would directly ban?
Chair Burt: The legislative lobbying at the State level, I don't think is
contentious, from what I heard earlier.
Council Member Wolbach: That's ...
Chair Burt: Whatever. (crosstalk)
Council Member Berman: I think two of us opposed it.
Chair Burt: I'm talking mostly—I want to understand what happens on the
one that is clearly contentious.
Ms. Stump: A local ordinance banning sales under 21?
Chair Burt: Correct.
Ms. Stump: You haven't seen the language, but it's not necessary that you
do that. You could decide to direct us to go directly to Council.
Chair Burt: But we're not going to have a majority of the Committee that
will do that. That's my question.
Ms. Stump: Yes, I understand.
Chair Burt: What happens when we don't have a majority of the
Committee?
Ms. Stump: It goes on the Action Agenda. The vote of the Committee is
reflected. Whether you ...
Chair Burt: It can be forwarded to the Council without a majority of the
Committee?
Ms. Stump: Absolutely.
Chair Burt: That was my question. Let's break it up into two parts then.
Let's take up support for State legislative efforts. I will move that we
support that.
Council Member DuBois: I second.
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MOTION: Chair Burt moved, seconded by Council Member DuBois to
recommend the City Council direct Staff to support legislative efforts to raise
the legal age to purchase tobacco from 18 to 21 years of age.
Chair Burt: I think we've had discussion, unless anybody else wants to
speak any more on it.
Council Member Wolbach: Still opposed.
Chair Burt: You'll get to vote.
Council Member Wolbach: I just want to make sure that was clear, because
it was ...
Chair Burt: You'll get to vote.
Council Member Wolbach: ... dismissed as—there was a comment earlier
(crosstalk).
Chair Burt: Just don't worry. Don't worry. Cory? Cory?
Council Member Wolbach: There was a comment earlier that this was not
contentious. I want to make clear ...
Chair Burt: I heard you.
Council Member Wolbach: ... this one is. You misrepresented it ...
Chair Burt: Can we move on?
Council Member Wolbach: ... earlier, so now I'm happy to move on.
Council Member Berman: We're good.
Chair Burt: There's only one Chair at a meeting. All those in favor.
Opposed. That's a split vote.
MOTION FAILED: 2-2 Burt, DuBois yes
Chair Burt: The second is that I will move that we request Staff to return—
would it still be reviewed by the Committee or if we don't have a majority
recommendation, it would just go to Council?
Ms. Stump: Chair Burt, it's your option either way. I frankly don't think it's
a complicated ordinance. Maybe you can give Staff the discretion to pull it
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together, take a look at it. If there are some policy questions that would
benefit from Committee vetting, could we come back to the Committee? If
it's relatively straightforward, we could go directly to Council. There
probably will be a legal advice piece that happens in another forum as you
know. I just want to let you know that would happen.
Chair Burt: I would move that we request Staff to draft ordinance language
to restrict local tobacco sales to 21 years of age or older with Staff
determining whether there are sub-issues to be reviewed by Policy and
Services or, if not, for the ordinance to go directly to Council.
Council Member DuBois: I'll second that.
MOTION: Chair Burt moved, seconded by Council Member DuBois to
request Staff draft Ordinance language to restrict local sales of tobacco to 21
years old or older with Staff determining whether there are sub-issues to be
received by the Committee or if not, for the Ordinance to go directly to the
City Council.
Chair Burt: Any other discussion on it?
Council Member Berman: I'll offer a substitute motion that we direct Staff to
draft an ordinance prohibiting the sale of tobacco at all in Palo Alto for
anybody of any age.
SUBSTITUTE MOTION: Council Member Berman moved, seconded by
Council Member XX to recommend the City Council direct Staff to draft an
Ordinance prohibiting the sale of tobacco in its entirety within Palo Alto City
limits.
Chair Burt: That fails for lack of a second.
MOTION FAILED DUE TO LACK OF A SECOND
Council Member Berman: I'm going to oppose the motion. I realize that
we've had our conversation here but this, I'm sure, will be reported. I
should do a better job of clarifying my comments. There's been talk of adult
and minor and the age of adulthood is 18. If we're deciding that tobacco
products aren't healthy for people, which is why I made the motion a second
ago, I don't understand if you're 20 or 25, if we think it's something bad for
you that we don't want to support in our community, then we shouldn't
allow for it to be sold in our community. I haven't heard any arguments or
rationale tonight for why somebody who's 20 should be treated differently
than somebody who is 21. Until I hear that, I don't support this. My
recollection of alcohol and why that age got increased from 18 to 21—I could
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have this wrong—it was that the Federal government tied it to transportation
funds. That kind of browbeat a lot of states to go along with that. Save a
longer conversation about why somebody who's 20 should be treated
differently than somebody who is 21, I don't support the motion.
Chair Burt: All in favor. Opposed. That is a split vote at 2-2. I think that
concludes this item. Thank you all for joining us.
MOTION FAILED: 2-2 Burt, DuBois yes
1. Auditor's Office Quarterly Report as of September 30, 2015
Chair Burt: We're going to move onto first the Auditor's Quarterly Report.
Welcome, Harriet.
Harriet Richardson, City Auditor: Good evening, Mr. Chair and Members of
the Committee. Harriet Richardson, City Auditor, presenting the Office of
the City Auditor's Quarterly Report for the first quarter of Fiscal Year 2016
which ended on September 30th. We have two audits that are nearing
completion, the franchise fee audit and the parking funds audit. The parking
funds audit is out for City Manager's official written response. We're
expecting—it's scheduled on the December 8th Policy and Services
Committee agenda, and we're expecting to meet that date. The franchise
fee audit, we are still finalizing findings, and we'll give that to the City
Attorney for review prior to reviewing it with the departments. We've been
working very closely with the City Attorney on this audit due to the nature of
the findings. We're tentatively scheduled to present the report to Policy and
Services in February, but we may need to delay to March because of the
number of parties involved including some outside of the City who will need
to review and respond to the report. We have five other audits in progress.
The report shows that two of these are expected to be presented in January
and three of them in February. As of now, there's not a Policy and Services
Committee meeting scheduled for January. I'm now anticipating that we will
present these in February and March, and they may stretch out into April
depending on the number of items on the agendas. Three of those audits,
the first ones, the fee schedule audit, we're evaluating processes used within
the City to establish fees that are expected to cover the cost of services to
ensure that they do cover the cost of services when they're expected to do
so or that Council has full information to make policy decisions on how much
they want to subsidize. We're also doing the disability rates and workers'
compensation audit which is focusing on assessing whether the City's safety
practices are effective to minimize on-the-job injuries and illnesses and
whether the City is effective at minimizing workers' compensation payments
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after an injury or illness has occurred. We also have the utilities rate and
billing accuracy audit which will evaluate whether the Utilities Department
properly implements established rates and accurately bills customers.
Because of the large number of rates—there's a variety of rates for each
utility depending on the customer, residential, commercial, different types of
rates—we'll be using sampling techniques in this audit rather than evaluating
every single rate. We also have two continuous monitoring projects in
progress. With these projects, we'll be using our data analysis software to
identify whether the City has made duplicate payments or is paying overtime
when it should not be. In both instances, the scripts we develop will be
available to do similar analysis on an ongoing basis. Regular intervals may
be quarterly, twice a year, something like that. If those projects are
successful at finding opportunities for improvement, then we'll likely expand
these techniques to future areas in the City that can provide a quick return
on our invested time in a shorter time period than a full audit. That's the
benefit of continuous monitoring audits. Looking to page 4 of our report,
we've begun the work on the National Citizens Survey. The National
Research Center mailed surveys to 3,000 residents in late September, and a
second copy to those same residents in mid-October. The data collection
period ends this week, and we'll have the draft results in early to mid-
December. We'll expect to have the report completed in early January. We
also do sales and use tax allocation reviews. We do some, and we also
contract with the Muni Services who does some of them on our behalf. Total
recoveries for the first quarter were $1,508. This amount was lower than
usual on an ongoing basis, but it is typical for the amount recovered to vary
significantly from quarter to quarter. I went back and looked at a couple of
examples. In one quarter in Fiscal Year '14, we collected 5,900 in one
quarter, but then in another quarter that same year we collected 93,000.
There's a really wide range, so I'm not alarmed at this point since it's only
the first quarter. If it stays low, I would start questioning the need to
continue doing this type of work within our office, the cost-benefit of doing
it. We continue to do our City advisory roles, Utilities Risk Oversight
Committee, Library Bond Oversight Committee, Information Technology
Governance Review Board and the Information Security Steering Committee.
The Library Bond Oversight Committee is wrapping up their work. There's a
meeting scheduled in December that we'll be attending. I believe that that
might be the last one. There may possibly be one more, but we'll be
wrapping up our obligation on that one shortly. The last item we have is the
hotline, the number of complaints that we receive each year. We didn't
receive—we only received two at the beginning of Fiscal Year '15 and then
none later in the last three quarters of Fiscal Year '15. To date, we've
already received seven in Fiscal Year '16. Four of those are the same issue.
All seven of those are still under investigation, so we don't have an update
on closing those out yet. As I said, four are the same. The other three are
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completely different issues. This concludes my report. I can address any
questions that you may have.
Chair Burt: Tom.
Council Member DuBois: I've got three quick questions. On the hotline, are
you kind of directly managing that at this point? Has that changed?
Ms. Richardson: We do not—there's actually a committee that involves the
City Manager's Office, the City Attorney and my office. When a complaint
comes in, we triage the complaints and decide who's going to investigate it.
Once it's gone out for investigation, I typically don't have a role in the
process.
Council Member DuBois: We had talked about, I think, about you tracking
resolution though. Has that changed or not?
Ms. Richardson: We receive comments back from the City Manager's Office.
I generally don't get a lot of detail in those comments. When I'm told an
investigation is complete and I can close it out, I typically close it out and
rely on that information.
Council Member DuBois: On the Utilities one, I'm wondering if there are
any—if it's going to be similar to the waste audit in terms of looking at
billing, classification. Is there any leverage or are those entirely different
systems?
Ms. Richardson: They're different systems. Utilities is billed through the
SAP system. The rates are in the SAP system. We're looking at—there's
generally like one person is responsible for putting the rates into the
system—making sure those rates got entered accurately and that when they
come back out onto the bills, that they are accurately going onto the bills
and the calculation. There's various levels of calculation that have to be
done, and we'll be looking at that.
Council Member DuBois: Remind me, because I know we talked about it
before. At one point, we talked about possibly a audit on TDR sender sites.
Ms. Richardson: Correct. Our audit plan for this year doesn't have that on
it, but I have spoken with Planning and I did talk to you again after that.
We do plan to put it on our audit plan for next year.
Council Member DuBois: Thank you.
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Chair Burt: Others? Can you review again on when you have the hotline
questions, your process for closing cases?
Ms. Richardson: I typically just rely on what I'm—the information I'm given
is that we've investigated it and you can close it. I don't get a lot of detail.
I get very little detail, so I don't have the ability, for example, to say it's
reasonable to close it or not. I rely on what I'm given generally from the
City Manager's Office.
Suzanne Mason, Assistant City Manager: Let me comment. Harriet and I
work closely with Molly on this, since I've been here which has been
primarily this year's complaints. Most of those complaints—we've multiple
on similar issues. They're mostly personnel items, and personnel items are
of a confidential matter. I think sometimes it's difficult to provide results on
exactly what has transpired or transpired when it has to do with a
confidential matter on a personnel item. That's difficult to provide a lot of
detail.
Chair Burt: Do either of you know how similar situations of predominantly
personnel hotline issues are handled in other cities that have hotlines?
Ms. Mason: That's one issue that we've been discussing. Harriet, Molly and
I are discussing how we handle those. I'm not sure, and that's one of the
questions I have. When the original procedure was developed, whether it
anticipated the level of items we're getting versus more serious conduct-
type items of fraud, really serious. Not that personnel items aren't serious,
that people perceive there to be a problem. An argument between
coworkers, things of that nature. Some of this is a little bit challenging, so
we're exploring that. We just had a dialog about that.
Ms. Richardson: I also think that—I will say I think that we don't always
agree on what's a personnel issue and what's not. I think sometimes it's not
completely black and white that it's strictly a personnel issue. Those are the
ones that I think are more difficult. I might view it as there's an aspect of it
that could be, for example, an abuse of a position or where someone maybe
has been reported as—I believe one of the very original complaints was
something about someone not recording time on their timecard when they
were leaving. It was treated like a personnel issue, but from an auditor's
perspective we look at that as theft of time. That's something that other
jurisdictions view as theft of time. That's why I say a lot of times it's not
strictly black and white.
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Chair Burt: Let's take that hypothetically, just that kind of circumstance. Is
that still how the City Manager's Office would view that kind of complaint, as
a personnel issue?
Ms. Mason: Yeah. I think if someone's falsifying a timecard, I think that is
serious and potential theft. Yes, we view that very seriously. I mean, I view
everything reported to the City Manager's Office seriously. The outcome of
what happened with an individual or how a situation was handled, that's the
matter I'm asking the City Attorney and Harriet for us to look at, if we're
recording something back in the system. Those are some of the concerns I
have. People are named in complaints. I just want to make sure we're
handling it appropriately based on that.
Chair Burt: There's a ...
Ms. Mason: I definitely—that is—falsification of a time record, I mean we
are having—every complaint is a (crosstalk).
Chair Burt: There could be serious issues that are still viewed as strictly
personnel even though they're also viewed as serious. Seriousness is one
filter. Another one would be what is a boundary of a personnel issue versus
something else.
Ms. Mason: Right. I may have ventured off topic. Where Harriet was
saying we're not providing a lot of detail, that's what I'm trying to address
with the City Attorney, how much detail is appropriate.
Council Member DuBois: I think there's two dimensions on that too. There's
the level that the City Auditor is involved to determine the categorization
versus what's reported back to us. I don't think we're necessarily interested
in personnel matters being reported back out. I think we are interested in
the City Auditor maybe having more control over the hotline.
Ms. Richardson: When I ...
Ms. Mason: The hotline's under the City Auditor.
Ms. Richardson: The hotline is under us to receive the calls, but we don't
really have any authority beyond that is what it comes down to. When I talk
to auditors in other jurisdictions that have a hotline, they maintain a lead
role even when they put the complaint out to a department for investigation.
They get a enough detail where they can actually overturn the outcome. If
someone says it's unsubstantiated, the auditor might look at the detail of the
write-up, but they have enough information to be able to do that. They say,
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"We disagree. This is clearly an issue." I talked to an auditor recently in
California where that was the case, where the city manager in that city said
it's not an issue. The issue came back through the hotline a second time,
and the auditor maintained full control over it and said, "Yes, it is an issue,"
after he did his investigation.
Chair Burt: Those cities, how does the auditor contend with issues that are
personnel issues and have that confidentiality requirement?
Ms. Richardson: Generally, the auditor still sees that information. In our
case, there's a very limited number of people who can see the outcomes.
We have a system, and the person who complains can see what their
complaint is. We write a very general response to the complainant back, but
they don't see all of the detail about what has been done to investigate it.
Even if I got that information, I mean as an Auditor, I have an obligation to
have integrity and maintain confidentiality. I don't see it quite the same
way as it being a personnel issue that I shouldn't be able to see the
information to make a determination if that was the right outcome. I don't
think I need to be actively involved in saying, "You implemented the wrong
disciplinary action." I think that's strictly management's decision. If there's
enough information to say yes, there is or there isn't a problem, I do see it
as ...
Chair Burt: More of a systemic problem you mean or ...
Ms. Richardson: It might be systemic, but it might be pertaining to a
specific individual also.
Chair Burt: Cory.
Council Member Wolbach: Actually, I find that kind of concerning. Actually
a couple of things. One, I hope that we're using thought and discretion if
somebody forgets to punch a timecard, that we don't jump to the conclusion
that they're intentionally trying to steal from the City. Sometimes
something slips their mind, forget to turn off the light switch, forget to lock
the door, forget to punch your timecard, not necessarily trying to drain the
electricity bill, leave the City unsecured or steal. I just hope we're using
good discretion about that. I would like to see us move towards the City
Auditor having a little bit more control. The reason for that is I want to
make sure that City Staff top to bottom feel comfortable calling the hotline
as a way to go outside of their usual chain of command. If it just goes back
to the chain of command, then they would just report it up the line. If it just
goes up the line anyway, then there's no reason to have a hotline which is
designed to provide an outside mechanism. Having heard those concerns
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from City Staff, just that if that if they were hypothetically in a situation
where they wanted to report something, but they don't feel that the current
hotline structure provides that anonymity and protection, it says to me that
we should have a little bit more independence for the hotline from the usual
chain of command. We can explore that more in the future perhaps.
Ed Shikada, Assistant City Manager: I would want to clarify—excuse me—
that this is outside the typical chain of command, because it is shared with
the City Attorney, the City Auditor as well as the City Manager. Quite
frankly, the checks and balances inherent in that three-party review takes it
out of the potential of any one of the Council Appointed Officers having the
sole direct responsibility for any personnel issue that exists. I would
disagree with Harriet. On my experience, it has not been of greater control
by the Auditor. Having that shared responsibility among Council appointees
is one of the more pressing (inaudible) as well, including with the police
auditor in which the police auditor may have the opportunity to review but
not to have any more control over the disposition of the investigation any
(inaudible).
Council Member Wolbach: I was just going to say I don't want to belabor
the point. I wonder if maybe this is something that we'd want to take up in
greater depth at some point in the future.
Ms. Mason: One thing I just want to share, we independently investigate
the complaints. I make sure Harriet's onboard and Molly with the approach
we're going to take. I just want to make sure we jointly approach that and
it is an independent investigation. We don't turn it over to the department
and the chain of command. We're actively involved in that.
Chair Burt: I heard earlier that there are some issues that are being
discussed with the City Attorney on certainly these areas of personnel
matters were the ones that you're having additional ...
Ms. Mason: The appropriate level of detail to provide in a personnel matter
is ...
Chair Burt: That aspect, I guess we have to hear back from the group of
you after Molly has looked into that more. Is that correct? For us to
understand.
Ms. Mason: We're talking about it together. We've really been approaching
this as a joint responsibility.
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Chair Burt: From the Council's standpoint, who set up the hotline and had it
reporting through to the City Auditor, I think a legitimate question that we
have is how well is that functioning and to what degree is the hotline
independent. We're hearing from the City Auditor concerns that the
Auditor's Office or the Auditor herself, if we want to in the case of the hotline
even in some of these ones that might include personnel aspects, we might
even want to restrict to the City Auditor rather than the City Auditor's Staff
involvement in those issues. To what extent should the City Auditor be
more informed about the basis for outcomes and engaged in that? It sounds
that at the current time those things are being treated as personnel matters
outside of any review by the Auditor.
Ms. Mason: I think it would help to have the City Attorney in the dialog.
Maybe at the next update Molly can be part of the discussion. I think part of
it is if there was a complaint of embezzlement, I think that the Auditor would
be the lead investigating that. When it's a personnel matter—again, we're
having this independently looked at—the question is where does the
personnel function fall. That's when some of our dialog about is the City
Manager responsible for appropriate personnel action. That's the dialog
we've been having with Molly. I just wanted to share that.
Ms. Richardson: One of the things that when the hotline was established, it
was intended originally—when the audit was done, it was intended to be a
fraud, waste, abuse, ethics hotline. I think where it has evolved is a fraud
hotline. I think we need guidance as to what Council really wants the hotline
to be. If you want it to be fraud, waste, abuse and ethics or do you really
only want it to be fraud. I think that might be some of the discussion that
we really need to focus on to know what direction we should be going with
them.
Council Member Wolbach: Do you need that tonight or ...
Ms. Richardson: I guess that would depend on whether you want to give me
some direction tonight to do something.
Council Member DuBois: The seven, I guess, this year, did you think that
was tied to the recent ethics training? Did that trigger more calls to the
hotline?
Ms. Richardson: These were before the training started.
Chair Burt: How is the hotline being framed in the training?
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Ms. Richardson: It's very limited. Everyone reads the ethics policy, and it
does address in there that if someone wants to report anonymously, they
can report through the ethics hotline. It was mentioned briefly aside from
just reading it, but most of the training has focused on—the ethics policy is
much longer than that one little sentence. It's focused on other parts of that
and then a lot of case studies of ethical challenges, kind of working through
what would you do in those situations.
Ms. Mason: Harriet, I just want to say something. You and I sat through
the Executive Leadership Team training, and we were doing kind of
feedback, dissecting as we were going through it so that we could give
feedback to improve the training. I kicked off the last two sessions, and I
opened it welcoming people, explaining why we felt it was important. I
pointed out in my comments, "You will notice as part of the training that the
ethics hotline is highlighted. There is a phone number. There is a diagram
in the training that shows all the ways you can report. You can go to your
supervisor. You can go to Human Resources, City Manager, ethics hotline.
It's right on that diagram." I just want you to know I've been opening every
training. We're just getting started. I am going to be trying to stay through
every training, or Ed, one of the two of us, so that we are there to make
sure it's clear and clarified. I just want you to know—I know you and I were
in a different training, but I was very clear in the beginning. I pointed out
the hotline and where the phone number is. I just want you to know that.
Chair Burt: Thanks. Cory.
Council Member Wolbach: I guess—thank you by the way for that. I really
appreciate the efforts to increase awareness about it. Speaking for myself, I
certainly think that the full scope of the intention of the hotline as originally
created should be maintained and should not be narrowed. To clarify on the
point of chain of command—I have a great deal of respect and strong
confidence in all of our ELT including the City Manager and our two
wonderful Assistant City Managers. The chain of command, as I see it, does
include those positions. The City Auditor being outside of that chain of
command, even to the very top, I think is important, at least when the calls
first come in, in case there's potentially some point in the future or say some
different City Manager and there's a need for the City Auditor to respond to
a hotline call independently of the City Manager or City Manager's chain of
command. I want to make sure that's still an option that can be utilized if
necessary, heaven forbid.
Chair Burt: We'll need to have this come back to the Committee after
you've had further huddling and maybe update on what is the current hotline
training versus what maybe was the former.
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Ms. Mason: It wasn't former. It was just that the first training was with the
whole Executive Leadership Team. We wanted to make sure we started at
the top, but it was also an opportunity to dialog about maybe this would be
better or that. It was kind of a joint training and feedback. I just wanted to
show Harriet since we've ruled it out beyond the Executive Leadership Team,
I am making sure that's introduced at the beginning.
Chair Burt: There's no action.
Ms. Richardson: Yes, there is.
Chair Burt: There is. I'm sorry. We're still on the quarterly report. We're
not going to make that mistake two games in a row on that. We need a
motion to recommend to the Council acceptance of the Auditor's Quarterly
Report as of September 30th.
Council Member Wolbach: So moved.
Chair Burt: Second.
MOTION: Council Member Wolbach moved, seconded by Chair Burt to
recommend the City Council accept of the Auditor’s Office Quarterly Report
as of September 30, 2015.
Chair Burt: Any discussion? All in favor. That passes unanimously.
MOTION PASSED: 4-0
4. Staff Recommendation That the Policy and Services Committee
Recommend That the City Council Accept the Description of the Status
of the Solid Waste Management Program and Cash Handling and
Travel Audits.
Chair Burt: We have one more item. I should have reviewed this earlier as
other items were going over. How long do we think we have on the solid
waste and cash handling, travel audit?
Suzanne Mason, Assistant City Manager: Like last month, we've attached
for your review the update. Solid waste management audit has been
completed. Phil's here to share any and answer any questions you may
have. The cash handling and travel expense audit is almost completed. We
are still working on some policies, and that's outlined in the report as well as
in the attachment. Just finalizing some procedures and reviewing to make
sure with the Auditor, the City Attorney and ASD Staff that we are really
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appropriately categorizing various meals and travel from a tax report
perspective. That's a high level overview. David Ramberg's here. Phil
Bobel's here. They're both leads on those and can answer any questions
you might have.
Chair Burt: Harriet, did you have anything you want to ...
Harriet Richardson, City Auditor: No. I can just say Yuki from my office did
the solid waste audit. She went through the recommendations and got
some information from the Department of Public Works and confirmed that
those recommendations have been implemented. We did do some
verification on that. I am aware of what progress is being made. I've been
involved in some of the meetings regarding what ASD is doing, particularly
on the travel expense side. I am aware of the Coal Fire report and what's
going on with the Coal Fire work. I'm in concurrence with both of those
updates.
Chair Burt: Questions or comments? Tom.
Council Member DuBois: I guess one comment. It'd be really useful,
Harriet, in the next year to maybe indicate like the size of the dollar impact
of the individual rows. Sometimes it's hard to tell, when you're looking at
views and which are complete like how important are they. I don't know if
that's something you'd be willing to do. Even if it was like order of
magnitude of dollar impact.
Ms. Richardson: Right. We don't always quantify our recommendations. To
the extent we can, we do. I can tell you, although it's not in our
recommendation and it's not in the update, when Yuki and I met this
afternoon to talk about the Public Works ones, as an example, on
Recommendation 1.1 she found that the City collected $51,000 in back
charges and refunded 146,000. They did not back bill the residential
accounts on those discrepancies.
Council Member DuBois: Some of it's (crosstalk).
Ms. Richardson: We should probably encourage—I mean, when we can
quantify it in our reports, we do. Sometimes, for example in this one, there
was work to be done by the department as part of implementing the
recommendations, so maybe what we do is we start working with
departments to say ...
Council Member DuBois: Maybe you can rank order them by what you feel
is most important or something. Just kind of an importance thing. On the
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per diems, there's a comment that you're not able to verify cash handling
sites updated. Why was that?
David Ramberg, Administrative Services Department Assistant Director:
David Ramberg, Assistant Director of Administrative Services Department.
We're still in the process of finalizing a few more sites. We're rolling the PCI
requirements. That's the biggest additional piece that needs to be
completed. We're about halfway through that. There's quite a number of
sites throughout the City. We expect to have that all completed and
wrapped up by April of next year.
Council Member DuBois: By the way, thanks for staying so late.
Mr. Ramberg: No problem.
Council Member DuBois: The other one was the whole thing about business
meals being treated as income. Is that different than the private sector?
Again, most of the time it's considered an expense, and it doesn't show up
as income.
Ms. Richardson: We've been working together to go through IRS regulations
and talk about what's taxable income and what's not. The IRS is actually
quite clear about what's taxable and what's not. When you're traveling, it's
an expense, and it doesn't have to be reported as income when you get
reimbursed if you followed the IRS guidelines. For example, per diem is
what they've switched to on travel because it's simple to administer and
that's allowable as a way to reimburse employees without having to quantify
every single dollar you've spent on a meal. There's other types of meals, for
example, or expenses that are taxable. It depends on the circumstances,
and that's part of what they're reviewing right now.
Council Member DuBois: Are you saying like Google should show all their
lunches as income? They probably don't.
Ms. Richardson: They probably should be showing those as income, yes.
Council Member DuBois: The switch to per diem to—last question. My
understanding of that, you don't have to submit receipts anymore, you just
get the per diem. What happens if somebody signs up for something and
ends up not going? Is there any verification that they actually go to an
event before they can get a per diem?
Mr. Ramberg: Yep, we do verify. We get the complete travel package in the
accounts payable division of ASD. There's a pre-travel authorization form.
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If it involves out of state travel, that goes all the way up to the City
Manager's Office. There's an estimation of expense put in the pre-travel
authorization. That's verified and signed by the department head and then
the City Manager's Office if it's out of state. Then what comes back at the
tail end of the travel process is all the documentation, the conference that
was attended, any receipts that are not food-related. They've taken the per
diem for food, but they're still quite a number of receipts that come in for
other expenses including lodging and air travel. A manager signs off on that
travel expense report as well. We verify that the individual went.
Council Member DuBois: It'd be kind of unusual if you went out of state and
no other receipts, just the per diem. It would kind of be like what
happened.
Mr. Ramberg: Exactly, yeah. Thank you.
Ms. Richardson: One more thing they do look for, because they do ask for a
copy of the conference brochure to make sure people aren't getting double
paid. For example, a lot of conferences provide a lunch. They check to
make sure, and then they deduct that so someone can't get a per diem and
get a free meal.
Council Member DuBois: Thank you.
Chair Burt: I guess that concludes discussion on that item. Sorry, I put that
away. Is there ...
Ms. Richardson: Some type of motion is needed.
Chair Burt: We need a motion to recommend approval to Council.
Council Member DuBois: I'll move that we approve this to Council.
Council Member Berman: Second.
MOTION: Council Member DuBois moved, seconded by Council Member
Berman to recommend the City Council accept the description of the status
of audit recommendations for the Solid Waste Management Program and
Cash Handling and Travel Audits.
Chair Burt: Any discussion? All in favor. That passes unanimously. Thank
you very much.
MOTION PASSED: 4-0
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Future Meetings and Agendas
Chair Burt: Very briefly we have our agendas in front of us.
Ed Shikada, Assistant City Manager: There are a couple of things I'd like to
bring to the Committee's attention. First, the green at the top of the table
reflects the additional meeting that was added for December 1st as the last
Committee discussion of the Healthy City Healthy Community item as the
primary. We did take the opportunity to add two items to that agenda,
which would be a follow-up on the, as we refer to it, the charging for
charging. The question of electric chargers at City facilities and the potential
for charging for the electricity there, as well as—it's listed as a registration
survey which apparently just got transferred incorrectly. It's the Business
Registry in terms of changes and in particular—let's see—some follow-up
that was directed by the Council. Let's see. A couple of other things that
are actually not on the list that I wanted to draw to the Committee's
attention. On December 8th, while we have quite a list, there is one other
outstanding item that the City Attorney asked me to mention which is the
revolving door restrictions and follow-up there. It is anticipated that that
information could be prepared and back to the Committee on the 8th. We'll
work on the management of the list of items on the agenda. If we can, we'll
work to make it ...
Chair Burt: The 8th has a lot of items, and it appears that I will have to be
out of the country on the 8th. Either way, it looks like a ton of items.
Council Member DuBois: I know Harriet wants to leave, but the 8th looked
really busy. I was wondering if the City Auditor's Report could move to the
1st or is that impossible?
Harriet Richardson, City Auditor: Let me look at what you're talking about.
Mr. Shikada: Actually we've got not only the City Auditor's Office Report,
this is the parking audit, if that's the one you're referring to, in addition to a
couple of follow-up status reports on audits.
Ms. Richardson: Yes.
Council Member Wolbach: Are we expecting those to be substantial or
controversial?
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Ms. Richardson: The follow-up reports won't be substantial. The parking
funds audit might be. They'll probably be some discussion about the parking
funds audit.
Council Member DuBois: I think we're going to get a lot of people for
basement dewatering.
Council Member Berman: Basement dewatering.
Council Member DuBois: That's going to be a big meeting, and that Council
Priority setting.
Ms. Richardson: If we don't do our audit then, we have to push it out to
February, because there's no Policy and Services Committee. Then we're
going to really be backing up on audits.
Chair Burt: I never quite understand why there isn't any Policy and Services
Committee meeting in January.
Ms. Richardson: I think it has to do with restructuring.
Chair Burt: Yeah. The Mayor typically makes the appointments by the
second week, so there certainly could be one in the third or fourth week of
the month.
Ms. Richardson: That would probably help the calendar.
Council Member DuBois: Again, I don't know if there are any of the items
that you're involved with that you'd be prepared a week earlier.
Ms. Richardson: I can't get the—I don't think I can get the parking funds
audit done a week earlier unless the City Manager could commit to getting
me a response a week earlier.
Mr. Shikada: Which would be this week or somewhere thereabouts.
Unfortunately, I don't know that that's possible.
Ms. Richardson: I don't think that's possible, because it involves multiple
departments.
Chair Burt: If not that one, Ed, are there any of the other items currently
scheduled for the 8th that might be able to be done on the 1st?
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Mr. Shikada: To move up? We actually already looked at that. The items
that had been added to the 1st reflected as much as we thought we could
move.
Council Member Wolbach: Are there any that we would be willing to push off
to the new year?
Chair Burt: Let me frame two possibilities. One is things that could rollover
to the next year; although, that's at best the end of January. There's too
many that appears for the meeting on the 8th, unless some of these are
perfunctory. I mean the basement certainly isn't. The Priority setting is big.
I don't see Core Values down, and I don't know if that was intended to be.
That's something that's gotten deferred for two years. We had talked about
it earlier in the year in our agenda setting. I don't whether folks are open
and whether schedules would allow a meeting on the following week, the
14th. On the Wednesday, we have a CAO Committee meeting and perhaps
City Council labor. Thursday, I actually have two City meetings. It looks
like the only day would be either after the City Council labor meeting on the
16th, which is a possibility if that's—we have a CAO Committee meeting, I
think, at 4:00. I think the Doodle said it was a whole bunch of labor stuff,
right?
Mr. Shikada: I think the 16th was already eliminated as a Council meeting.
Chair Burt: The 15th, is anybody—how does the 15th look for everybody?
Council Member Wolbach: There is a Finance Committee meeting
simultaneously. Also a CAC for the Comp Plan, I think. That doesn't
necessarily preclude us, unless it's (crosstalk) for Staff.
Chair Burt: Is there a conflict for you with Finance Committee?
Mr. Shikada: Not for me.
Ms. Richardson: That Finance Committee meeting is when we'll be
presenting the CAFR, that's the November meeting or are you talking about
December?
Mr. Shikada: December.
Ms. Richardson: You're talking December, so no, we're good on December.
Council Member Wolbach: Anyone know if there'd be a problem for City
Attorney? Does she need to be at either or both of those?
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Ms. Richardson: If you wanted to do a December meeting, I could push the
parking funds audit out a week.
Chair Burt: It seems that we either need to have a second December
meeting or push out several of these items to the new year.
Council Member DuBois: You mean a third December meeting, right?
Chair Burt: Right. What's the druthers?
Council Member DuBois: You said you're not going to be here on the 8th
(crosstalk).
Chair Burt: Almost for certain.
Council Member Wolbach: Again, I'll ask Ed and Harriet as well, are there
any of those items which are, in your view, not time sensitive and if they are
pushed out to late January, we would lose anything or lose any
opportunities, have any policy implications if delayed?
Mr. Shikada: Certainly the status reports on the audits, Numbers 9 and 10,
could be pushed out without any time sensitivity.
Council Member Berman: What's Number 5?
Council Member DuBois: I think that could be pushed.
Mr. Shikada: I don't recall (crosstalk).
Council Member Berman: I don't even know what it says.
Council Member DuBois: That was part of that Colleagues Memo.
Council Member Berman: What is the co-sponsorship agreement?
Council Member DuBois: I think it was insurance for rooms.
Council Member Berman: That's not time sensitive.
Council Member DuBois: That's not time sensitive. Personally, I think on
the 8th the Priority setting, the basement dewatering and the Code cleanup,
that's a pretty hefty meeting.
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Council Member Berman: Are we doing the parking funds audit?
Chair Burt: The Priority setting, I would really want to be involved with that.
I don't know whether—had we looked at it whether the 15th is available for
folks either as instead of the 8th or in addition to the 8th?
Council Member Wolbach: If we're going to do the 15th, because of
potential conflict for Staff and City Attorney, I think actually ...
Mr. Shikada: Finance.
Council Member Wolbach: Yeah. The Priority setting might actually be the
best thing to push to the 15th. That's kind of just up to us, as I understand
it. I don't think there's any like legal implications or Staff requirements for
us to discuss our priorities. I am available on the 15th. I can't speak for
anyone else.
Council Member DuBois: I could do the 15th.
Ms. Richardson: The parking funds audit, we've been working with the City
Attorney's Office on that, but Cara's been the person involved. If Molly
needed to be in Finance, Cara could be here for that probably.
Council Member Berman: Can we not move the—I'm sorry, guys. I'd love
to not have three Policy and Services meetings in December. I'll do it if we
have to, but can we move the Priority setting to 12/1?
Chair Burt: That has to have solicitation from the Council and get that
pulled together, which could be done by then. Is it the Clerk's Office who
leads on that?
Mr. Shikada: No, it's actually our office. We've been also working on the
residents survey on Open City Hall.
Council Member DuBois: What if on the 8th, we publish an agenda and we
start at like 5:00 and planned on a long meeting? It's like tonight.
Chair Burt: I'm gone.
Council Member DuBois: That's right. Sorry.
Chair Burt: We could do something like that on the 1st, conceivably. Have
a longer agenda on the 1st.
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Council Member DuBois: I thought we were having trouble moving things to
the 1st?
Chair Burt: We were. One was the question of the Priority setting, whether
it could be moved. Any thoughts, Ed?
Mr. Shikada: Not specifically. To your point, if this is—it's really a point in a
process. If it's simply setting expectations on what can be accomplished
within that timeframe, we'll (crosstalk).
Chair Burt: Normally, we've solicited that input from Council Members, and
then the Committee tries to organize it and things, I think.
Council Member DuBois: Beth like sends out an email of solicitation or how
does that happen?
Chair Burt: Yeah.
Council Member Wolbach: We got it last year.
Council Member DuBois: We could just ask her if she can get it out this
week, I guess.
Chair Burt: I think Ed said it's not the Clerk; it's the City Manager's Office.
Mr. Shikada: We've been handling the survey, so I may be mistaken as far
as the other piece.
Chair Burt: That would be one possibility.
Phil Bobel, Public Works Assistant Director: We could do the dewatering
thing earlier, our Staff Report.
Chair Burt: That could be on the 1st?
Mr. Shikada: Maybe bring that to the 1st? At this point, there's so much
community expectation that it'll be on the 8th.
Mr. Bobel: Good point.
Council Member DuBois: We'd have to get the word out. There's probably
time to move it. We just have to make sure we get notice out.
Council Member Berman: We know the leaders.
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Chair Burt: There may be expectations, but we've got three weeks to get
the word out.
Mr. Bobel: They've got a good network.
Chair Burt: If we did move that to the 1st, one, does that make the meeting
on the 1st, does it need to start sooner because it's now got a real full
agenda? The second question would be could we instead of meeting on the
8th, meet on the 15th for the balance of the items?
Council Member Wolbach: Move the whole agenda to the 15th?
Chair Burt: The balance of the agenda.
Council Member Berman: Minus the stuff that we can punt to January?
Chair Burt: Right.
Council Member Berman: I think it's too big.
Chair Burt: Nine and ten ...
Council Member Wolbach: And maybe five.
Chair Burt: And maybe five, yeah.
Mr. Shikada: Also again the reminder that the revolving door restrictions
are also ...
Council Member Berman: Not on here.
Mr. Shikada: Not on here, but (crosstalk).
Council Member Wolbach: Is that coming to the 1st?
Mr. Shikada: It could be brought on the 8th.
Chair Burt: If we are able to move dewatering to the 1st and maybe we
have to start that meeting early, can we move the meeting of the 8th to the
15th including punting on perhaps Items 5, 9 and 10 and moving them to
January?
Council Member Berman: I can do that.
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Council Member Wolbach: Yes, yes.
Chair Burt: We're good?
Council Member Berman: Yep.
Female: Let's get a confirmation. On the first, are we starting earlier than
...
Council Member Berman: Yeah.
Council Member Wolbach: Plan to start early.
Female: Do we know when we want to start?
Chair Burt: I think 6:00. Does that sound good?
Council Member Berman: Yeah.
Council Member DuBois: Yeah, we have interviews right before that.
Chair Burt: We do? They run from when to when?
Council Member Wolbach: We do?
Council Member DuBois: 5:00 to 6:00. I have it down here as tentative. I
don't know if there's (crosstalk).
Council Member Wolbach: It's not on the calendar.
Council Member Berman: I don't have it down. That doesn't mean it's not
happening.
Council Member DuBois: Like I say, it hasn't been confirmed yet.
Chair Burt: Are they ...
Council Member DuBois: There was a Doodle out for 5:00 to 6:00 to do
Parks ...
Chair Burt: Just 5:00 to 6:00?
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Council Member DuBois: ... Parks and Rec. If you start right at 6:00, that
would make sense. I put in tentative dates. Did it get confirmed for a
different time?
Mr. Shikada: Do you know when we're interviewing for Parks and Rec?
Female: I can verify. I went over the calendar today, but at this point I've
no idea what happened today.
Council Member Berman: I've got it on the 17th, but that could be wrong on
my calendar.
Council Member Wolbach: There's a Parks and Rec meeting on
November 17th. Oh, no. We're also interviewing. It's on the 17th.
Chair Burt: Good.
Female: That's irrelevant then (inaudible)?
Council Member Wolbach: Just depending on what we're ...
Council Member DuBois: Was that confirmed? I have that as tentative as
well. We should check the two dates.
Chair Burt: The 17th?
Council Member Berman: That's what I've got on mine.
Chair Burt: I had answered that I couldn't do it, because I have two other
meetings. We'll find that out. The meeting on the 1st, the starting time will
in part be determined by Parks and Rec, but not earlier than 6:00.
Female: The 15th will be the normal time start?
Council Member Berman: No, the 15th is probably—should that be early
also, if that's the Auditor's Office report, Council setting, basement
dewatering?
Council Member Wolbach: I'd say let's do it tentatively for 5:00 right now.
Council Member Berman: No, dewatering we're moving to the 1st. I
apologize. Ed, what was the one that ...
Mr. Shikada: Revolving door.
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Council Member Wolbach: I'd say let's do it at 5:00.
Council Member Berman: 5:00? Got to eat dinner.
Female: On the 15th?
Chair Burt: No. (crosstalk)
Council Member Wolbach: No, no. The meeting on the 1st.
Council Member DuBois: I think we need to wait.
Council Member Berman: Let's do 6:00 for both, and we'll really be efficient.
Female: We're canceling the 8th or we're keeping the 8th as well?
Council Member Berman: No.
Mr. Shikada: (crosstalk) the 8th to the 15th.
Female: I'm just triple checking.
Mr. Shikada: More for information than anything else, there is one other
item that's not on this list which is the minimum wage, consideration of
exemptions for tipped employees. Staff has already concluded that the work
necessary to (inaudible) to Committee with meetings after the first of the
year.
Council Member Berman: You're just saying it wasn't on here at all.
Mr. Shikada: It's not on here.
Council Member Wolbach: It's not going to be on here.
Mr. Shikada: It will be.
Chair Burt: On that note, we're adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT: Meeting adjourned at 11:39 P.M.