HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023-11-21 Rail Summary MinutesRAIL COMMITTEE
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Special Meeting
November 21, 2023
The Rail Committee of the City of Palo Alto met on this date in the Community Meeting Room
and by virtual teleconference at 2:31 P.M.
Present In Person: Burt (Chair), Veenker, Lauing
Present Remotely:
Absent:
Call to Order
Chair Pat Burt called the Rail Committee meeting to order. The clerk called roll with all being
present.
Verbal Update on Interagency Activities
A. Caltrain
B. VTA
C. City Staff
Senior Engineer Ripon Bhatia stated Staff was in the process of reviewing Caltrain’s Consultant
Staff updates on the conceptual alternatives plans and would bring it back to the Rail
Committee after they discussed them. He added they had submitted additional grant
applications through Section 190 for each grade separation crossing at Meadow, Churchill and
Charleston for the 24-25 fiscal year consideration.
Chief Transportation Official Philip Kamhi noted they had an amendment with VTA for their
funding agreement to include the Caltrain review Senior Engineer Bhatia described and it was
approved by VTA. He said that Staff has been working with the procurement department in
acquiring the contract for professional services with the consultant to perform the quiet zone
study at Churchill, Meadow and Charleston. He discussed an agreement executed with Kimley
Horn to provide support to continue the design. He announced the permit and repairs for San
Francisquito Creek were delayed until the summer of 2024. An emergency declaration occurred
on the 18th for the temporary bank stabilization efforts. Regular inspections would continue
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through the winter. He added that Caltrain continues to collaborate with the City, Stanford, San
Francisquito Creek and Joint Powers Authority on this.
Chair Burt asked for explanation of the Section 190 grants, what dollars were asked for and
what the prospects were based on criteria.
Senior Engineer Bhatia provided explanation of the Section 190 program. The maximum
amount is $15M and they submitted that amount for each grant application. It was likely they
would not get the grant this year.
Chair Burt noted he had been having discussions with VTA and Caltrain and they brought up to
Stanford about beginning to bring the five agencies together who have a shared interest on the
Palo Alto Intermodal Station. VTA was pushing to get the Diridon Station planning moving
forward. He pointed out that the Palo Alto Station was a more significant Intermodal Center in
terms of Caltrain boardings and numbers of buses that go there and there is a great deal of
justified future planning on Diridon although the urgency was being mitigated by Google
pushing out the horizon on the Googleplex indefinitely. He hoped they would begin to have
informal discussions with Caltrain, VTA, Stanford and SamTrans. The Stanford Ad-Hoc
Committee has been having additional discussions on the bus-only entrance into the station via
Quarry from El Camino.
Study Session
1. Study Session: Update on 4-Tracking Analysis by Caltrain
Caltrain Official Navdeep Dhaliwal stated they would be focusing on the 4-Track Analysis. She
asked that questions regarding Caltrain’s design criteria and engineering standards be asked
outside of the forum.
Kimley-Horn Transit Project Manager Jill Gibson shared a slide presentation focusing on the 4-
Tracking Analysis agenda, objectives, track configuration, adopted service vision 4-Track
segments, analysis purpose and a recap of the 2017-2019 business plan growth scenarios. She
clarified there was a note stating one 4-Track Station was needed in Northern Santa Clara
County.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres provided explanation of the note regarding the
funding agreement. He clarified that Caltrain cannot make a decision that would preclude or
make materially more complicated future operations. He provided slides discussing the 4-Track
initial planning approach, initial evaluation process for North Santa Clara County segments,
operations considerations and planning parameter assumptions.
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Chair Burt asked if the future minimum corridor separation time going from four to two
minutes would reduce the length of a 4-Track system, what factors would enable them to go
from four to two minutes and if the ability to accelerate faster from electrified trains would be
a crucial aspect.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres confirmed shortening the corridor separation time
would reduce track length. Positive train control and an upgrade to the signaling system would
enable them to reduce the length. He discussed how faster acceleration would be crucial.
Council Member Vicki Veenker noted the business plan slide that discussed the moderate
growth scenario mentioning eight Caltrain and four HSR trains freight. She commented that it
looked like the better technical crossing spot would have been Palo Alto Avenue.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres answered that was the peak-hour scenario and
there is typically not freight operations during that time. He stated they would provide a
diagram that would show how the trains would be slotted in the corridor.
Nadia Naik asked if the two-minute headway would assume level boarding and center
platforms and if the signaling upgrade would be a hardware or software upgrade and what it is
called.
Chair Burt noted currently there is no level boarding and there are times where it looks like
everyone has boarded but the train does not take off because they have to factor in a certain
amount of fudge time in case there was someone with a boarding issue.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres said it assumes a typical dwell time which could be
level boarding. Center platforms are assumed where there are platforms. The signaling upgrade
is both hardware and software and the name is to be determined. He stated there would be
10% accommodated time in the schedule. He provided slides representing the adopted service
vision describing the details of how to decipher the information it provided and the two minute
separation in and out of a 4-Track segment. He discussed the reason Palo Alto was not the
crossing spot. He discussed the slides representing the track configuration and adopted service
vision noting that prior to the work proceeding the 4-Track segment analysis in North Santa
Clara county, the Mountain View Transit Center was identified as a 4-Track segment but was
removed before the work initiated and outlined the reasons. He then discussed slides outlining
the initial trade-offs and key elements and influence of turnout design on service.
Council Member Veenker wanted to know why the left and right turnout was different.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres explained the differences between the turnouts.
He presented a slide discussing typical section for running track.
Chair Burt asked if the space for a vehicle on the outside of the track was a necessity or a
preference.
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Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres answered it is preferred and depends on the
conditions of the location whether it is a necessity and explained the reasons. He then
presented slides outlining the technical analysis, the high community and infrastructure impacts
of the Palo Alto station segment and explanation of why Palo Alto as a crossing was avoided.
Chair Burt commented that the picture showed that the tracks running through the University
Avenue area have a dogleg.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres explained why that matters.
Council Member Veenker asked if the dogleg is going to slow down the high-speed rail.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres stated it will slow down the high-speed rail.
Nadia Naik asked what the significance of the softball field is.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres answered they were trying to be aware of
anything that is a community asset. He stated the illustrations in the presentation were to be
able to identify the key constraints and key trade-offs. He discussed infrastructure constraints
at the Palo Alto Station. The next slides discussed California Avenue Station segment
community and infrastructure impacts relative to the Palo Alto segment.
Council Member Veenker asked if option D could be shorter.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres stated that option had been explored but the
challenges it presented. He discussed slides regarding the San Antonio Station segment high
community and infrastructure impacts and major reconstruction and San Antonio Road
Overpass impact. He provided a summary of the constraints of all three segments and the
preliminary understanding.
Item 1 Public Comment
1. Eric Nordman wanted to know if the existing overpass will have to be upgraded to
withstand extra weight when existing overpass grade separations are upgraded and
since the 4-Track will have significant width, will that allow elimination of the trench
option.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres answered the bridges need to be modified
where necessary and the bridges may need to be upsized if necessary to accommodate the
load to handle Caltrain and UP Service in the corridor. He discussed the impacts to the
trench alternatives.
Chief Transportation Official Kamhi further elaborated on the trench alternatives.
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Caltrain Official Navdeep Dhaliwal added Caltrain has not had the opportunity to review the
trench alternatives so that would be a question for the City and might require further
analysis.
Chair Burt stated at the next meeting, the Committee might want to have that analysis done
so they could be clear whether a trench is viable or what greater cost impact it might have.
Council Member Veenker asked if there would also be some legal analysis.
Chair Burt’s understanding was they would technically only have to allow for it but
practically it would be impossible to build a 2-Track trench and then a 4.
Caltrain Official Navdeep Dhaliwal commented this went back to where operational
feasibility kicks in on where the 4-Track is necessary based upon the blended service needs
for both High-Speed Rail and Caltrain. She thought this could help influence a lot of the
work they had been partnering with City Staff on and evaluating how to apply the
knowledge to the alternatives. She stated it is about what is implementable for a 4-Track
versus what is constructible later.
Nadia Naik commented that the key is that it cannot preclude but also make materially
more expensive. She felt it was obvious that it would not fit.
Chair Burt stated that brought up the clarification that if and when a 4-Track is actually
needed, that those funds would not be a burden on the City but on the railway system and
that they cannot select an alternative that would be materially more expensive than other
alternatives.
Caltrain Official Navdeep Dhaliwal answered that is something the Project Team has
explored and thought they should make sure they do that confirmation with the partner
agency to ensure they have the right direction on what that future constructability would
look like and who would be responsible.
Council Member Ed Lauing asked if there was an update on the potential timeline as to
when the decision would be made.
Caltrain Official Navdeep Dhaliwal stated they could begin to have conversations about
what the responsibility of funding would look like in the near future. In terms of timing
when High-Speed Rail would come, the most recent marker they have is 2032-33 at the
earliest and that would be up to the planning efforts from High-Speed Rail.
Chair Burt stated $20B has been identified and the estimate of the system is about $120B
but that is before they do cost updates.
Council Member Ed Lauing commented that means there is an option that it does not get
done and they cannot wait 50 years to decide to build two or four tracks and need direction
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on that and should they try to eliminate some of the alternatives in order not to disrupt
infrastructure.
Chair Burt surmised the dilemma is that whether they think High-Speed Rail is coming or
not, they and Caltrain have to do grade separations in ways that allow for 4-Tracks in a
given location.
Council Member Lauing felt they could start the negotiation of where they want to go.
2. Steve Rosenblum asked if there were any compromises necessary to deal with freight on
the right-of-way and if Caltrain has any idea how long freight service will be required on
the right-of-way.
3. Adrian Brandt pointed out that CPUC will not allow tracks to be added to existing
crossings but new crossings with more than two tracks. Regarding the switch numbers
and turnout speeds, it is very common to have moving frog turnouts. He suggested
improving the clarity of the chart showing the merging distances. He stated a viaduct
was the easiest to expand except for on San Antonio Road where there is already
something up in the air.
Kimley-Horn Transit Consultant Edgar Torres stated with regards to compromising the
design to deal with freight, there was no specific compromise.
Caltrain Official Navdeep Dhaliwal stated Caltrain is planning for freight being a part of their
system and will always accommodate for freight service. She added they have to
accommodate High-Speed Rail and Caltrain service regardless of when High-Speed Rail
comes. They did the analysis to provide that insight on where the segment would be and
refinement of the 4-Track segment and were committed to working with the City to
accommodate and not preclude the 4-Track and the City’s design efforts for their LPAs. They
welcome feedback on the options throughout the service agreement process.
Council Member Lauing asked if they just want a prioritization of one through four in terms
of preferences.
Chair Burt added the Staff just received technical feedback on the various alternatives they
had been looking at which provided more considerations that influence the decision-
making. He thought they would want to soon merge the additional considerations of the 4-
Track impacts and the other technical impacts and see how that influences making one of
the alternatives that are less favorable or another comparatively more favorable. He felt
that would be crucial at the end of the meeting when they get into discussions on upcoming
meetings because they have some aggressive timelines for narrowing the alternatives
because of the grant funding they have and they will have to merge all the new information,
make recommendations to Council and then get it to the Council to see if they can have
additional refinement on preferred alternatives. He asked if VTA is up to speed on this.
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Caltrain Official Navdeep Dhaliwal stated she had a very light-touch conversation with VTA
about this but they were looking to share this information with them very soon.
Chair Burt added VTA has the Grade Separation Ad-Hoc Committee and it is questioned if
they want a presentation. They need to have VTA in the conversation to better understand
whether reconstruction of San Antonio is an option.
Council Member Veenker wondered if discussing the cost for different alternatives would
be helpful.
Chair Burt said that would bring up the question whether they need ACOM to begin work
sooner rather than later on the very rough order of magnitude cost implications.
Nadia Naik said they have costing data for all the alternative not including 4-Tracks.
Chief Transportation Official Kamhi added they do not have open scope to do this and
would need a new agreement or contract amendment that would need to go to Council. It
would be significant work for the consultant.
Chair Burt asked if he could meet with ACOM before the next meeting to get a little better
understanding of how much time would be needed and how much it would cost because
they need that input to make a good decision or they can do their own extrapolation based
upon the cost of the alternatives they had on 2-Track systems.
Chief Transportation Official Kamhi answered he could meet with them before the next
meeting but probably would not have any new information by then. He felt they needed to
discuss how in depth they will want them to go.
Chair Burt stated he could get a rough estimate on San Antonio from VTA.
Nadia Naik asked if there has been any consideration from the City’s perspective about
doing a coordinated area plan with Mountain View about San Antonio generally based on
the housing element.
Chair Burt stated they do not necessarily have money for Measure A; although, in
discussions with VTA leadership, there is belief that a study of Measure A would be eligible
for an FTA grant for the study.
Action Items
2. Provide update from Caltrain’s Local Policy Makers Group Meeting Regarding Caltrain
Crossings Strategy Project, Review Caltrain's Proposed Metrics for Prioritizing Grade
Crossings, and Propose Feedback for Caltrain Consideration
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Chair Burt announced a workshop meeting at Mountain View City Hall from 4:00 to 6:00 on
Thursday, November 30 to propose metrics proposed by Caltrain for grade crossings and
opened that discussion for feedback.
Chief Transportation Official Kamhi noted there was a slide that identified the proposed four
metrics to include safe and equitable mobility, equitable community benefits, cost efficiencies
and reliable funding and maximized rail corridor utility. He explained the purpose of this item
was to determine if there is any feedback the Rail Committee wants to provide for Caltrain’s
consideration.
Kimley-Horn Transit Project Manager Jill Gibson stated earlier in the Corridor Crossing Strategy
study, they worked with Local Policy Maker’s Group (LPMG) and City Staff Coordinating Group
(CSCG) to develop the four program goals. They are now working on an approach to start
assessing crossings at the request of many of the jurisdictions along the Corridor to prioritize
the projects. This initial assessment is a way to evaluate each crossing with binary metrics.
Council Member Veenker asked for explanation about the downtime growth for the safe and
equitable mobility factor. She wondered if there were changes in service levels and demand
post pandemic.
Kimley-Horn Transit Project Manager Jill Gibson answered that the calculation was based on
the 2040 business plan.
Chair Burt added nobody knows about the post pandemic changes yet. Caltrain is looking at
reevaluating the business plan based on those circumstances which he explained in detail.
Nadia Naik suggested it might be helpful to give the exact language they were thinking about
and she thought the gate downtime presentations missed the multiplication of the downtime if
the distance between two grade separations is short and that impacts the road network
differently. She also suggested putting a number to emergency vehicle access.
Kimley-Horn Transit Project Manager Jill Gibson stated that is something they had talked with
the City Staff group about and were thinking about how to incorporate the feedback they
received about that.
Chair Burt commented that putting numbers to it goes to the challenge of a desire to have
binary decisions but he stated examples of why he did not think that works. He thought the
issue with gate downtime was the issue of the impact on gate downtime where it is a significant
congestion factor and they want to look at how crossings relate to one another. Under the
“equitable community benefits” column, he stated there are a lot of different kinds and sizes of
schools and they should not be treated as equal impacts. He asked for clarification on the third
column if it was saying it is higher or lower priority if it is within a quarter mile. He clarified that
the future 4-Track area was placed in the same priority as if needed for blended purposes. He
suggested they could look at the criteria established for selecting local preferred alternatives as
a follow-up.
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Kimley-Horn Transit Project Manager Jill Gibson answered this was thinking about the
packaging and efficiency of projects. She thought it would be better written, “To the extent that
two grade separations intermingle with each other.” She stated they were open to suggestions
and they would talk more about it the next week.
Chief Transportation Official Kamhi thought the Safe Routes to School was more critical than
the 0.5 miles. He wondered if the first item introduced a recency bias.
Nadia Naik pointed out that in if there is no inherent promise to the entire system that they are
going to grade separate the entire corridor eventually, the metrics become tools used against
each other. She added as they get better at doing the corridor things, there is an efficiency in
coordinating several projects being built at the same time.
Chair Burt agreed with looking at corridor-wide segment sequencing impact. He appreciated
that the attempt at binary quantitative metrics was to get out of the cities competing but he
was not sure they could get there. He felt having well-thought criteria is valuable even if they
could not get to the point of eliminating the competition for dollars.
Nadia Naik thought they should be in thought of coordination of light-timing through the
corridor would be important. She suggested raising that issue with MTC.
Senior Engineer Bhatia added the three different approaches are being looked at for all
crossings for the whole corridor. He felt these metrics would be helpful and could be evaluated
and updated on a periodic basis as more information is found.
Future Meetings and Agendas
Tuesday, December 5th
Chair Burt announced Caltrain has submitted a substantial amount of feedback on the technical
standards. He stated given how that affects the preferred alternatives combining with a 4-
Track, they are on an aggressive timeline to address that. He asked if they could have a
preliminary discussion of some of the germane parts of that at the December 5 meeting.
Senior Engineer Bhatia answered they were hoping to bring a review at a more comprehensive
level in January.
Chair Burt stated that sounded more realistic. He asked what items are on the agenda for
December.
Chief Transportation Official Kamhi answered for December there will be a presentation from
Ozzy Arce and the consultant on the Bicycle and Pedestrian Transportation Plan.
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Chair Burt discussed in January they will be reviewing the technical feedback from Caltrain and
asked if they would then be ready to make recommendations to the Council on at least
narrowing alternatives.
Chief Transportation Official Kamhi thought that the technical Caltrain comments in
conjunction with the 4-Tracking would lead them in that direction and he thought it was a
possibility.
Chair Burt noted that there are no January Committee meetings because the Mayor needs to
reappoint or select new committee members. They have a discussion on procedures and
protocols and he intended to bring up the question of whether the Council wants to support a
rollover of existing committees into January and then in February it will be the same or
different composition of committees. He was hoping for continuity so they could have a
January meeting.
Nadia Naik said that the January meeting would be highly technical and dense. She pointed out
if they were not able to give decisions in January and pushed into a February meeting and if the
composition changed, there would be new people who had to get caught up to speed. She felt
that with all the new information, there should be a special effort to drive people to a Rail
Committee or City Council meeting when it has all been discussed since it has been a while
since the Community has heard any of it.
Chair Burt stated that on Monday they could discuss the ramifications of having a meeting in
January and whether they want to recommend continuity of a committee like this. He thought
Staff could be thinking about at what point in time a public workshop meeting would be needed
and that could be discussed in two weeks.
Adjournment: The meeting was adjourned at 4:50 P.M.