HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024-11-19 Finance Committee Summary MinutesFINANCE COMMITTEE
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Regular Meeting
November 19, 2024
The Finance Committee of the City of Palo Alto met on this date in the Community Meeting
Room and by virtual teleconference at 5:35 P.M.
Present In-Person: Burt (Chair), Lauing, Stone
Absent: None.
Recused: Veenker
Call to Order
Chair Burt called the meeting to order. The clerk called the roll and announced Mayor Stone
was present as an alternate for Council Member Veenker.
Molly Stump, City Attorney addressed the recusals by explaining Council Member Veenker does
patent work for Stanford University and City Manager Shikada’s wife was an employee of the
Stanford Hospitals therefore both were recused.
Agenda Items
1. Evaluation of Fire and Ambulance Service Expansion Options
NO ACTION
Kiely Nose, Assistant City Manager, indicated that this was a referral that the Committee and
Council provided as part of the FY2026 budget process. She wanted to acknowledge the
inherent tension the Committee, Community and staff may feel as part of the conversation. She
reported a financial report would be on the agenda for December 3.
Geoffrey Blackshire, Fire Chief, gave a slide presentation evaluating fire and EMS service
expansion options including community needs, measurement of performance, availability and
resources with comparison data and resource analysis and options.
James Durman, ESD Director, joined the presentation to discuss EMS expansion benefits.
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Chief Blackshire resumed the presentation discussing the county ambulance and fire service
ambulances option A: contract, option B: firefighters, option C: single role civilian and next
steps.
Lauren Lai, Administrative Services Director, commented that the Finance Committee would
receive the packet for the upcoming study of the long-range financial forecast the following
Thursday. They would have a deficit for the next three years and could balance in 2030. Fiscal
26 budget was looking more like a $12 million base deficit. The ongoing costs were about $3
million plus. That would have an impact on the foreseeable deficit. She wanted feedback by the
full Council.
Item 1 Public Comment:
1. Penny Ellson found the report referencing expanding fire service to be misleading
stating the option would be to restore a fire engine that was eliminated in 2020 as part
of pandemic budget cuts. She hoped Council would give careful consideration to
restoring a fire engine at Fire Station Four and 12-hour peak ambulance.
Vice Mayor Lauing queried if research had been done as to why they had 75 percent more calls
than Mountain View and wanted information about the Stanford component. He asked if calls
were triaged before responding. He questioned if they were comfortable with the Stanford
service contract and if it varied by volume. He wanted to understand why firefighters had to be
dispatched every time. He wondered if they should have separate EMTs that could be added to
the three ambulances to avoid having to always send out fire engines. He assumed having a
peak ambulance would be just another ambulance parked somewhere.
Chief Blackshire replied it could be demographics and that Stanford University draws a lot of
calls. He indicated the fire chief in Mountain View stated well over 90 percent of their calls
were medical where Palo Alto calls were 63 percent medical. He said the fire dispatchers did a
triage for medical services which determines the response method. He explained that fire
stations were traditionally strategically placed in a city for quick response. When a 911 calls is
received, the goal is for the fire engine to arrive first to provide the level of service. When the
ambulance arrives, they do a handover and the engine becomes available to respond to the
next call. He explained there are five fire stations in Palo Alto and one in Stanford. There is a fire
engine in every station except Fire Station Four. There are currently three 24-hour ambulances
serving the City. He explained the peak ambulance would be another ambulance at one of the
fire stations that would be available to run medical calls. In the civilian model, three of the
ambulances would be EMT and paramedic on the unit. He commented that if there were five
engines and five ambulances, whether they would be first on the scene would depend on the
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acuity of the call. They would need a higher level of compliance with the EMD service to
determine a model that would support that.
Kevin McNally, Deputy Fire Chief, indicated the Stanford incidents included more fire alarms
and medical aids on the weekends and evenings. Regarding the difference between Palo Alto
and Mountain View was Palo Alto had a large influx of people downtown. He met regularly with
his Mountain View counterpart and they also wondered why they were not getting the same
amount of calls but they had medical facilities and other purposes on Google Campus that
might take away from the 911 system. He pointed out they have five engine companies at the
stations for other incidents so it is a resource with capacity to do the job. If they had less engine
companies and more ambulances, they would run into a problem when the more extreme
emergencies happen.
Amber Cameron, Senior Management Analyst for the Fire Department, remarked the contract
with Stanford was renegotiated in 2018. It was originally put together in the 1970s and had
been a 30 percent rate of the entire expenditure. They had a two to three-year renegotiation
process that was very contentious and went to mediation for a short time. They were able to
agree on a very detailed cost modeling that took their assigned resources and spread out the
costs of the department equitably. In that methodology, they accounted for about 19 percent
of their expenditures.
Assistant City Manager Nose added the contract would end in 2028; however, it contained a
clause that stipulates discussions if there are service delivery changes as well as a recalculation
of the share upon execution of new labor agreements.
Mayor Stone thought option A would reduce the quality of service the community was used to.
He wanted to know of option B or C had a greater impact on the reduction of response time. He
asked how the single role was differentiated from the current firefighters. He wanted to
understand the benefit for the City having multiple firefighters attending somebody rather than
multiple paramedics. He wanted to know the long-term pension impacts were between option
B and C. If all things were equal, he thought option B seemed the best. He asked why they
would have to wait for year two to staff the new engine.
Chief Blackshire indicated the outcome would be the same with each model. The only
difference would be if the ambulance was staffed with firefighters would be an additional
resource to respond to all calls as opposed to just medical. The strategy behind keeping one
ambulance with firefighters was always having them on scene. He indicated firefighters were
more stable in regards to staffing with the same level of service. All ambulances are currently
staffed with a minimum of one medic and one EMT. He added that civilian EMTs and
paramedics would only focus on EMS training. He explained if they did the single role model,
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they would use the firefighters on the current ambulance and they would move over to the
new engine. It would take time to go through the bullet points to determine the appropriate
model, go through labor negotiations and do the hiring. They would start with a 12-hour peak
ambulance but then would use that to get the program started and then expand to the other
24-hour ambulances. At that time, the firefighters could move over to the engine and staff the
other two with civilians. Option B would still take significant time. There would be a hiring
process to hire 10 firefighters.
Ms. Cameron explained that for EMS calls, the responsibilities of EMTs and paramedics would
be the same. The difference with what the firefighter staff would be able to do would be
respond to hazmat incidents, fire calls and other type of emergency incidents. With medical
calls, the single role civilian staff would be doing the same work that firefighter staff currently
does.
Assistant City Manager Nose also noted there was ultimately a training and cost difference. The
cost savings was still to be determined in terms of discussions with CalPERS who would
determine if they could make it a miscellaneous pension. She stated the cost of adding six
ambulances in a civilian model versus six ambulances in a sworn model would be significant
when thinking about the ongoing training necessary for the staffing and equipment.
Vice Mayor Lauing asked Mayor Stone if he still had high concerns about the contract
ambulance option.
Mayor Stone expressed concern that the staff would not be Palo Alto Fire Department
employees and that it would likely be a longer process.
Ms. Cameron explained it would be about a $1 million cost estimate for a contract with a
private ambulance company. They would have to go through an extensive RFP process which
factors into the timeline. It would also require labor negotiations.
Chief Blackshire remarked they would have to practice within the protocols determined by the
EMS director in the county. In his experience, there was a different level of service using
contract service.
Assistant City Manager Nose heard the desire to implement this quickly but reiterated they
were looking at deficit spending next year already and this would make that hole larger. To the
extent they wanted to accelerate the timelines outlined in the staff report, she encouraged the
Committee to think about what they would reduce. Going for a tax measure would be a general
election and would be a few year out.
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Chair Burt wanted to know how the response times in the service area of Four compared to the
rest of the City and wanted to get the actual data and make it available to the public. He asked
if they were 10 firefighters lower than in 2019. He questioned how long ago the deterioration in
response time happened. He asked if they knew where they would be with 10 additional
officers compared to 2019 in terms of number of sworn officers. He wanted to see the different
comparisons when they came back and other ways they could get an engine in Station Four at a
lower cost than the three options. He thought they needed an understand of the disproportion
of non-medical calls compared to Mountain View. He asked about the mutual aid agreement
with Mountain View. He wondered why it was that Station Four was selected. He wanted to
know what portion of the EMS calls were Stanford and why they did not want to pay extra on
medical transport.
Deputy Chief McNally answered the response time measured on the 90th percentile. Averages
during peak time did show some lowering for an engine company response but not grand. The
90th percentile was higher because if Engine Five or Three responds is great but getting deeper
into Engine Two or Six responding those two got extended. He stated going back to 2019, they
had 26 personnel during the day and an ambulance that was 12 hours, similar to what was
currently being proposed, making it 24 at night. They would be going to 30 during the daytime
and 28 at night. It would increase staffing because in 2019 they cross staffed to get additional
ambulances. He explained how they went to great efforts to remove cross-staffing a few years
back. He remarked they started studying the response times during COVID when they were
asked to reduce budgets. They contracted with a group called Levrum that did predictive
analytics to best model the personnel they had based on the dollars they were given to best
service the needs of the community. They realized some of their times were longer with the
cross staffed apparatus. They ended cross-staffing in 2022. He described the shift model of daily
staff and explained they were the ones that worked on engine companies, ambulances and the
daily battalion chief. In 2019, that would be 26 in the daytime, 24 at night. With the new model,
it would be 30 during daytime and 28 at night.
Chief Blackshire added it was not uncommon for the fire service to have cross-staffed units but
standardly they cross-staff with units that are low demand. When they were cross-staffing in
Palo Alto, they took the call type with the highest frequency and take those engines out of
service. The unavailability of their units when they cross-staffed initiated the cancellation of
their auto aid agreement with Mountain View. He explained the mutual aid agreement with
Mountain View ended when they went to cross-staffing. They currently had an auto aid
agreement with them on confirmed structure fires and freeway responses. Any other call type
outside of those would be requested through a mutual aid process. They have to go through
the county and do a request for assistance. This started because they were both on the same
CAD system. They were dispatched by the closest unit to the incident. The CAD system could
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determine which unit but did not know whether it was Palo Alto or Mountain View. Whoever
was closest to the call would go. He added the availability of all of the units was the driver
because the fewer units that had to respond to the increasing amount of calls would make
them less available than they would be with the extra engine.
Assistant City Manager Nose remarked that how staff was talking about daily staffing was
helpful as opposed to total. Her understanding of the Stanford contract was that there were
two options for medical transport services. Either the county would provide medical transport
services as part of the county's role responsibilities as the county government or the City would
provide those because we have our transport rights. If the City was not providing transport
services the county would be responsible and Stanford would not be charged.
Ms. Cameron stated they produced an annual report each year that showed the breakdown of
the call volume. The call type determination was what was presented after it was completed.
She said 62 percent of calls were EMS, 15 were good intent, 13 percent were false alarm or
false calls and 8 percent were service calls. She explained the original contract with Stanford
included them paying for ambulance transport services. In the 2018 contract, it explicitly said it
was only for fire service and did not cover ambulance transport services. They did carve out
some of the ambulance costs from the cost calculation to accommodate that.
Vice Mayor Lauing wanted information on LAFCO. He asked how they get to the adopted
standard.
Ms. Cameron explained LAFCO is an independent state mandated agency that oversees
boundaries of cities and special jurisdictional issues. They funded a third party review of all fire
service agencies in Santa Clara County. They pulled data and information from each one of the
fire service agencies and put it together in a report. It is the most comprehensive analysis of the
state of fire service done in recent history.
Chief Blackshire added based on their findings, their recommendations were not mandated.
They took their report and focused on what they felt were the highest priority data points they
provided. He said the adopted standard depends on the agency and history. The standard of 8
minutes or less 90 percent of the time is tied to the chain of survival as it relates to medical
calls. They adjust it based on the demographics of the city.
Chair Burt asked if the standard of 9 minutes 41 seconds was an aggregate of Foothills and Flats
or just Flats. He was interested in knowing what the standard response was excluding Foothills.
Ms. Cameron replied it was all urgent calls.
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Vice Mayor Lauing wanted clarification on why service people could only be on calls 10 percent
of the time. He asked for a guess at the revenue streams. He thought they needed to be
focused on the increasing medical calls and they needed to increase the capacity for pure
medical calls.
Chief Blackshire explained he asked the project manager for the LAFCO study why it was 10
percent and he was told the industry standard for AP Triton stated if the standard is 8 minutes
90 percent of the time then 10 was the differential looked at for UHU. If the had a lower unit
hour utilization, they would be more readily available to respond to simultaneous calls. This
was driven by patient outcomes.
Assistant City Manager Nose asked if having a different staffing model with civilian, would that
be an additional adjustment to civilian versus sworn and what would the industry standard for
UHU be.
Deputy Chief McNally replied it would generally be higher. There would be less training needs
and more opportunities to get them on calls. The LAFCO study used 10 percent as a model. If
the expectation is for them to be at the 90th percentile and they were busier than 10 percent, it
would be automatic that that the closest resource would be unavailable at the 11 to 13
percent. Increasing the number of available ambulances shrinks the workload.
Ms. Cameron assured the Committee they were actively working on finding revenue sources to
help cover the cost. That would be seen as part of the Municipal Fee Study that would be
coming. They were looking at increasing the base fee for ambulance transport to augment their
budget as well as looking at a first responder fee. With expanding ambulance service, they
could contract for inner facility transports in order to generate other revenue.
Director Lai added they would continue to look creatively in all the different ways. The hard
reality was the majority of the costs were borne and bared by the general fund. They would still
have to reconcile with the net cost of the additional programs.
2. Information Item: Calendar Year (CY) 2024 Finance Committee Referrals Status
NO ACTION
Director Lai wanted to give the Committee an update on the referrals and asked if there were
any questions.
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Vice Mayor Lauing did not think the EPA golf course fees had to go to Commissions.
Chair Burt asked what the process would be to implement the nominal one.
Assistant City Manager Nose replied staff wanted to look with the Parks and Rec Commission
and it would be a policy change.
Director Lai thought that staff was recommending they incorporate it in the 2026 fee schedule
meaning it would be effective July 1, 2025.
Chair Burt assumed they would want to do some outreach to East Palo Alto.
Vice Mayor Lauing asked why they would want to wait on this for $8,000 to $16,000.
Director Lai answered staff was recommending they go through Parks and Rec along with a
public outreach and they would bring it in as a part of the municipal fee update.
Vice Mayor Lauing stated they would miss next year’s golf and should wait until 2026.
Director Lai said they could take that feedback to the Community Services director. She shared
that previously the City would take fee updates throughout the year. It became cumbersome to
do it that way and they aggregated it into an annual fee process. They did not want to go back
in the year and update the municipal fee.
Chair Burt did not think East Palo Alto was necessarily expecting it and did not think there was a
sense of urgency.
Vice Mayor Lauing thought it might be better to get publicity from the PRC. He did not
understand the last sentence about evaluating general fund financial support.
Director Lai explained that was referring to the parking permit pricing and parking permit fund
financial status. In the FY25 budget, the general fund supported the various parking program in
the tune of $2 million. It was not apparent to what extent any of those funds could repay the
general fund. The upcoming budget development process would allow time for the Office of
Transportation to implement some of the programs and studies and that would guide to what
extent it would be realistic that the general fund should anticipate any repayment or the
Council may decide what level of financial subsidy at that point because the general fund would
not be repaid.
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Future Meetings and Agendas
Assistant City Manager Nose announced the next meeting would be December 3 and the
agenda would go out the next week.
Director Lai said the topics would include the annual comprehensive financial report, the long-
range financial forecast, an informational report for Q1’s financial update and a preliminary
preview of the utility rate increases that staff was iterating.
Adjournment: The meeting was adjourned at 7:27 PM